Meyer admits Morne mistake
16 Sep 2012
Heyneke Meyer says he may have erred in keeping Morne Steyn on the field against the All Blacks in Dunedin.
Steyn, whose missed penalty kicks cost the Springboks wins against England in PE and Argentina in Mendoza, had a poor first half with the boot at the Otago Stadium and many expected him to be replaced by Johan Goosen at half-time. Meyer, though, kept faith in his No 10 and it proved costly as by the time he was subbed in the 59th minute he had been successful with just one attempt out of five.
‘Sitting here afterwards it is easy to make calls but it is a life and death situation for me and maybe I made the wrong call but Morne usually comes back and kicks well,’ Meyer told a news conference after the match. ‘Frans Steyn is a great goal-kicker and Ruan Pienaar can kick as well. You don’t just take a guy off for his goal-kicking.
‘I’ve always said that I am going to bring Johan Goosen through and give him game time. But Johan had struggled with his goal-kicking in training during the week and he is still only 20-years-old and he hasn’t played for almost three months. I thought he did superbly for the 25 minutes he was on the field.
‘But we could have changed the goal-kicker. We talked about it at half-time. I thought Morne would find his rhythm.’
378 Comments
16 Sep 2012, 09:12 am
And zane??
16 Sep 2012, 09:13 am
And why sub Beast with that apocalyptic c unt greyling?
16 Sep 2012, 09:14 am
If this was Pdivvie, the country would not be able to forgive him at all, like they’ve shown.
Double standards as always by the rugby public.
16 Sep 2012, 09:15 am
Jeez Keo is behind the times. This was on News24 yesterday. http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/Meyer-admits-to-Steyn-mistake-20120915
16 Sep 2012, 09:16 am
Together with earl , zane is one of the kakkest boks ever… Sad that a guy like ettienne botha never became a bok, because of quotas… They should give zane and earl a protea blazer…. Not a bok one…
16 Sep 2012, 09:16 am
Oops, my mistake, it was on Supersport even earlier yesterday.
http://www.supersport.com/rugby/springboks/news/120915/Decision_to_let_Steyn_kick_probably_a_mistake
16 Sep 2012, 09:22 am
@grant100-5:
Consistently 80% and up of the Bok team and Super Rugby teams are made up of white players. I think white players have enough chances. At the time Ettiene Botha was playing he was considered to small and he and Adi Jacobs had a fantastic partnership. Now you are saying that Ettiene Botha should have played in front of De Wet Barry/Marius Joubert or Jean de Villiers/Jacque Foure?
Your argument is devoid of insight which makes you a racist peos!
16 Sep 2012, 09:23 am
@grant100-5:
To be quite honest, the best players on the park from both teams were non-white.
May the problem is that there are too many white players?
16 Sep 2012, 09:24 am
Rugby student… Bobo was picked above ettienne at the time… There are reserves aswell boet…. Stick with soccer
16 Sep 2012, 09:25 am
Heineke knowing that you faulted persisting with morne will you kick him to the cUrbs? I think not…
As I believe that only morne cost us the game I think that hougi must go back to scrummie… Ruans kick was so aimless I could not believe it!!!
Jeans game is suffering @13… Bring in de jong or mapoe @13 play fransie @15 and go back to 12 then I know we will absolutely wing the next 2.
9-hougaar 10-goosen 11-basson 12-de villiers 13-de jong/mapoe 14-habana 15-steyn
20-pienaar 21-lambie 22-engelbrecht/mapoe/de jong
16 Sep 2012, 09:26 am
@grant100-9:
Hahaha, I don’t like soccer. If it wasn’t for quotas, Bryan Habana would’ve
also been just another talent.
16 Sep 2012, 09:30 am
@grant100-9:
The real problem with quotas are the selectors at provincial level.
There’s lots of talent but selectors would rather sit at a Waterkloof vs KES or
Paul Roos vs Paarl Gym game. Other schools who have lotsa talent don’t get airtime.
So scouts and selectors keep saying there aren’t enough black players. Bull!
16 Sep 2012, 09:33 am
@grant100-9:
When was Bobo picked in front of Jean de Villiers/Jacque Fourie/Dewet Barry/Marius Joubert?
16 Sep 2012, 09:35 am
Now that emotions have subsided I must say…..What a wasted opportunity Heyneke!
Goosen looks totally at home, in fact he exudes confidence . Surely , surely, surely the M Steyn era is now well and truly over? With Elton Jantjes getting Man of Match in Bloem we are more than adequately stocked with 10 class….no need for the handbrake 1 dimensional skop en jag artist anymore Heyneke…
Must say Ruan Pienaar has dissapointed me as well….his kicking was really poor behind a dominant pack….Hougaard should be given the 9 jersey with an instruction to play and not try be a FDP clone.
J De Villiers is a massive concern for me. He does not look happy and is clearly not enjoying the 13 role. That is another big call HM will need to make…
As for the pack….Surely the performance of F louw has once and for all silenced the critics and debate around a specialist opensider….Louw was superb, and with Brussow getting his groove back we have 2 pedigreed Pitbulls and 1 should always start….Vermeulen will get better and better as he approaches 100% fitness and both Alberts and M Coetsee were excellent as well….
I hope JP Pietersen starts playing soon…..if so I would look at this backline for the home leg…9 Hougaard
10 Goosen
11Habana
12 F Steyn
13 J De Jongh
14 J P P
15 Lambie….
Also must say F VD Merwe made a big impression yesterday….best game I have seen the enforcer play…
What a pity we had a fear filled coach….
16 Sep 2012, 09:35 am
Now will SARU admit Meyer mistake?
16 Sep 2012, 09:36 am
“HM says You don’t just take a guy off for his goal-kicking. there a lot of other things morne did wrong in the game ……sitting deep and poor decision making is juts 2 of them.
shame he doesn’t make a mention about his other big mistake taking off beast for greyling. Or his poor kick and chase rugby game plan we’ve got a long way to go …….
16 Sep 2012, 09:39 am
I don’t get it. If HM loves Morne so much, he owes it to him to drop him. There is no reason for Morne Steyn to be getting as much hate as he is. He is playing as well as he can at the moment, but is out of form. HM should protect him by dropping him. He can have a rest or go play for the Bulls and hopefully will come back stronger in a year or two. He is not worth discarding completely. It reminds me of how Percy was treated when he was out of form, it was not his fault, he was not selecting himself. We are all glad he came back after a time away from the Boks. I am sure it shows signs of a gamblers mentality, always believing the gamble will pay off if only it goes your way once. As for Greyling, he should donate his match fee to a charity, apologise to all of SA and voluntarily leave the team ashamed as he should do. As for HM, he really needs to take a long look at himself and his team. He needs to ask what value he is bringing to SA rugby. If anything at the moment he is making us more reliant on a game plan that will not work against the top 5 teams in the world & relies completely on the forwards controling the game. This is not possible every week, with the best will in the world. He needs to do something. I would suggest the Ricardo Loubsher needs to be let go, the backline skills are atrocious & those backs should be embarrassed today. John Mitchell or David Campese are the only persons that could come in and make an immediate impact. SARU, need to change (or at least experiment in one province) the way they develop age group rugby. It is time for the youngsters to be seperated into weight categories rather than age group. Will see some skills come through then. All provinces should get a mandate to upskill all players immediately with a greater emphasis on keeping the ball alive, creativity and continuity, you can’t expect the Boks to do it, if it is not done at lower levels.
16 Sep 2012, 09:40 am
@grant10-14:
I don’t get it. When the England team was here, Heyneke said, that only for that series will we see the stuff that he knows and are comfortable with. Nothing has changed.
16 Sep 2012, 09:40 am
@hsark-16: The moronic mesiah says a lot of things.
Pity he does fokol except alienate supporters.
16 Sep 2012, 09:41 am
I don’t get it. If HM loves Morne so much, he owes it to him to drop him. There is no reason for Morne Steyn to be getting as much hate as he is. He is playing as well as he can at the moment, but is out of form. HM should protect him by dropping him. He can have a rest or go play for the Bulls and hopefully will come back stronger in a year or two. He is not worth discarding completely. It reminds me of how Percy was treated when he was out of form, it was not his fault, he was not selecting himself. We are all glad he came back after a time away from the Boks. I am sure it shows signs of a gamblers mentality, always believing the gamble will pay off if only it goes your way once.
As for Greyling, he should donate his match fee to a charity, apologise to all of SA and voluntarily leave the team ashamed as he should do.
As for HM, he really needs to take a long look at himself and his team. He needs to ask what value he is bringing to SA rugby. If anything at the moment he is making us more reliant on a game plan that will not work against the top 5 teams in the world & relies completely on the forwards controling the game. This is not possible every week, with the best will in the world. He needs to do something.
I would suggest the Ricardo Loubsher needs to be let go, the backline skills are atrocious & those backs should be embarrassed today. John Mitchell or David Campese are the only persons that could come in and make an immediate impact. SARU, need to change (or at least experiment in one province) the way they develop age group rugby. It is time for the youngsters to be seperated into weight categories rather than age group. Will see some skills come through then.
All provinces should get a mandate to upskill all players immediately with a greater emphasis on keeping the ball alive, creativity and continuity, you can’t expect the Boks to do it, if it is not done at lower levels.
16 Sep 2012, 09:43 am
@The Bill-17:
John Mitchell is a forwards coach, are you talking about Carlos Spencer maybe?
16 Sep 2012, 09:43 am
@The Bill-20: No need to repeat yourself. Just ask HM what happens
16 Sep 2012, 09:44 am
It appears from HMs remarks, that being able to kick is the sole criteria for his flyhalf choice. I wonder what plans he has to turn Goosen into his complete 10?
16 Sep 2012, 09:47 am
@David-23: Perfect the triple rotating, reverse inward boomerang kick wit a half length googly bounce to confuse the opposition and get the ball back to us.
16 Sep 2012, 09:49 am
It was tragic to see the possession being aimlessly kicked away yesterday. I maintain this is really an average Kiwi and Aussie team and if only we would select correctly and stop the skop an jag en bid policy we will beat these teams…..
I say it again….and again and again….Lose the FEAR HEYNEKE….
16 Sep 2012, 09:51 am
Who does Heyneke Talk to on the radio
16 Sep 2012, 09:53 am
Looks like Meyer does not have the flexibility to make it at international level. His inability to trust in players of colour is a concern. Think of Kolisi, Jantjies and De Jongh. It seems he is only comfortable with players from a certain culture.
16 Sep 2012, 09:58 am
Number one spot up for grabs if we want it. Trust me, the loss of Jerome Kaino and Brad Thorn has cut the AB’s physicality to the core. Heyneke Meyer directly responsible for the tragic defeat yesterday with two Bulls clowns (Steyn and Kirtchner) not getting the hook soon enough (let alone starting), and one absolute palooka Bulls clown Greyling substituted on for a form Beast. Putting Lambie on for 5 minutes was sickening and insulting.
16 Sep 2012, 10:01 am
@RugbyStudent-26: Dialling 911
16 Sep 2012, 10:01 am
@RugbyStudent-21: John Mitchell created one of the best running teams when was coaching the All Blacks, so he should be called in, along with Campese as a skills coach.
16 Sep 2012, 10:01 am
I think the problem right now is we don’t have backline players in teh country setting the world alight. I think our backline players are totally overcoached.
16 Sep 2012, 10:03 am
@Spiesisworthless1-28:
I agree….Kiwis are not that flash…..we are our own worst enemies at the moment.
I believe we have the players to dominate …..the key problems are self belief, game plan and selection.
And those 3 all fall under the auspices and control of Management…..and Meyer needs to up his own game…..perhaps use some of the physcho babble on himself….
16 Sep 2012, 10:03 am
@trupisero-29:
Bravo 1, Bravo 1 kom in, ek is in die kak! hahaha
@The Bill-30:
Was there ever a time when the All Blacks didn’t play running rugby, regardless of the coach?
16 Sep 2012, 10:04 am
Meyer cost us 4 games now by keeping Morne on the field. Should have brought on Janjties in PE, Lambie on in Mendoza, also should have brought on Goosen earlier in Perth. Goosen should have started in Dunedin or brought on after 30min when Morne was clearly not up to it. Had he brought on all those players in those games we would have won all of them. Lambie too should have been given 25min at least at fb. Zane was not great either.
Yesterday in Dunedin Boks were by far the better team, but our kicks for posts messed it up for us. Also two tries that went begging by Habs. Knocking on once right by their line and not catching the ball, he would have been over for both. Could have been a bad pass by Zane or Habs over running it. Ruan was not great either and he cost us at times too.
So we missed 7 kicks = 21 points. Missed two certain tries, make that 10 points because Morne was not getting anything over at the time. We should have finished on 42 points. Zane too let through a try. Greyling cost us huge as well. Why he was brought on for Beast will never know. Such a pity we messed this one up. ABs were there for the taking.
The real person that cost us this game was Meyer. Players don’t select themselves. It was up to Meyer to pull Morne off and bring on Goosen earlier, it was up to him to bring on Lambie as well. It was him that replaced Beast with Greyling. Meyer should take total blame for us losing.
Why Meyer should allow his captain to think for himself on the field. It seems as if Jean was not allowed to give the kicks to Ruan to take once Morne had missed two. The captain should be allowed on the field to change the kicker if he has missed two. Ruan then should have taken the next two kicks. All other captains have changed the kicker if they have missed two. Just seems as if Meyer has just too much power here. He really should allow his captain some leeway on teh field.
So there it is. I blame Meyer for this loss.
16 Sep 2012, 10:04 am
Kirchner does not deserve to be berated as much as he is. He played poorly but was not as culpable as Meyer, Steyn or Greyling. I would love him to do more with ball in hand, but same could be said of Pienaar, F Steyn, JDV, Hougard.
That said, I would prefer Lambie on the field.
16 Sep 2012, 10:07 am
@Puma-34: teh = the
16 Sep 2012, 10:08 am
@The Bill-35:
Agreed but the call for Lambie is a baffling one as he has not played much fullback in the last year and a bit. The last time he played FB for South Africa he didn’t do to well. The problem is the fullback space is much of a muchness. Who do you pick?
Ludik/Taute/Aplon/Joe Pietersen/Daniller…etc
We haven’t had a good fullback for a while. And it seems the criteria for a good fullback solely depends on if they are good in the air and can kick. In that instance I’d rather pick Ludik.
16 Sep 2012, 10:10 am
@Puma-34: spot on puma
16 Sep 2012, 10:11 am
@The Bill-20: Very good post Bill.
I would bring in Mitchell as a consultant to help Meyer. Doubt Meyer will want to work full time with Mitch. As a consultant for a few weeks it would definitely work. However, bring in Carlos as our backline coach. Our backline coach has done absolutely nothing with our backs at all. Carlos would make a massive difference straight away.
16 Sep 2012, 10:12 am
When Habana goes to the ground with the ball and we recycle it quickly, only for Morne to give a kick over the ruck for Habana to chase, you just know that the man has absolutely no tactical sense.
That was probably the most pathetic of all his kicks yesterday.
16 Sep 2012, 10:14 am
@grant10-38: Thanks Grant. I feel you feel exactly the same as I do right now.
Anyhow feel so gutted we lost yesterday. We were by far the better team. Meyer is costing us wins by refusing to bring on the better players during the games.
16 Sep 2012, 10:17 am
@Puma-41: Highlight for me was our loose trio….
Again shows that we have the players to dominate…..
That loose trio were a handfull…..and will get better and better given time to gel….
16 Sep 2012, 10:18 am
@grant10-32: It’s so frustrating knowing that we have the talent to do anything really, certainly match the current AB’s and surpass the Wallabies, but Meyer doesn’t have the belief. His game-plan says it all. The players have more belief than he does going on Saturdays performance.
Steyn equally crippled by fear and doubt, and Kirtchner just a flat out average player who should never have seen a Springbok jersey in the first place.
I can accept that Heyneke is unlikely to be sacked anytime soon, but for goodness sake lets get some big time proven coaches in the box assisting him. Todd Louden may have turned down Meyer’s offer but there are a whole host of world class, innovative coaches that would jump at the chance to coach the Boks. Van Graan and Loubscher never inspired confidence from the beginning.
16 Sep 2012, 10:19 am
Can’t really blame Zane for the try, Puma.
Smith was missed by somebody at the ruck, remember. Could not see who it was.
Was just a very good individual try.
That said, Zane was not great but not many of the back line players were. Our forwards, especially our loosies, on the other hand were very good.
16 Sep 2012, 10:19 am
@RugbyStudent-37: I would go for Lambie for the following reasons:
He is a very talented player & I believe he will earn a bucket load of caps. He has not had an extended run at FB, so give him a run there. ZC has had a run & has not made the position his own.
Lambie is with the Boks & knows the system and he he allows a lot of flexibility for the backs. There may come a time when he is needed at FH, he will be familiar with the systems, pattern etc.
I think to say he did not do well in 1 game some time ago is not enough reason to drop him.
16 Sep 2012, 10:20 am
As i lifelong bulls fan even i have have reached that point where i say enough is enough HM must now drop morne as his form and confidence have now totally gone.It would be the best thing for morne and SA rugby if he went back to the bulls and played in the CC,as his form at test level is not good enough.He has been a good servant to bulls and bok rugby,but HM must not confuse sentiment with loyalty it never works,this is about as simple as it gets he is out of form ,low in confidence so drop him,there is no shame in dropping him it has happened to many a good player when there form has gone,and it will do morne good as he will be out of the firing line at test level.
16 Sep 2012, 10:20 am
Should read made a mistake to start with Steyn !!!!!!!!
– Not sure who to play at 9 as hougie is not clever enough to command the game,, Pienaar needs to speed up. But overall I was very impressed with the Boks they looked like a different team, a team that wanted to win,,,, Boks dominated the Kiwis, the whole game and Flow/ Alberts and have to say Flippie played well…
Not sure what HM has been watching, Steyn kicks the ball during play straight down the middle of the pitch – someone needs to tell him they need to go out on the sides…. And Steyn/ Pienaar gave the ball back to the best attacking team in the world all the time.. Pienaar is to slow at 9..
16 Sep 2012, 10:22 am
@nama1-44: It was missed by Greyling. If ever it was not your day, he proved it yesterday.
In fact, he may have suggested rugby (at international level) is not his career.
16 Sep 2012, 10:22 am
@The Bill-35: Kirchner doesnt have the capacity to do more with the ball, unlike Frans,JDV,Hougaard,Pienaar. He’s never done shite before so it figures that he never will.
16 Sep 2012, 10:24 am
@blueboy-46: It did wonders for Percy Montgomery. HM is turning everyone against Morne, not Morne himself.
16 Sep 2012, 10:26 am
I disagree with this statement – “You don’t just take a guy off for his goal-kicking.”
Steyn is there primary for his goal kicking , he offers nothing as a general at flyhalf , stands too far back in the pocket and is a defensive liability.
But it was not just Steyn , Greyling should have never reached Bok level , Juandre Kruger was bad in the lineouts , Kirchner was okay at best and its a crime that a player like Lambie sits on the bench for so long.
All 4 these players should not be in the Bok squad plus probably some others as well. The whole country saw that before the internationals started except Meyer and the die hard Bulls. Sorry to say but Meyer has failed miserably so far , a messiah of SA rugby he is not. His selections smacks of provincialism of the highest order , his behavior in the box is even more eccentric as Pdivvy and we becoming the joke of international rugby , he subs are confusion to say the least and his game plan is so outdated they should award 4 points for every try we score.
The only positive I can think if is that Habana remains pure class and our loosies played very well , I do feel Alberts should go to lock and Marcel comes in at 7. Good to see Louw play so well as I always felt he disappointed in the chances he got and as a matter of fact I did not expect him to do this well.
16 Sep 2012, 10:33 am
#50 The Bill I agree with you 100% but i also think morne should have a long good look at himself and admit it to himself and to HM that at the moment he should not be playing test rugby as he is not good enough.
16 Sep 2012, 10:34 am
@grant10-42: They were. Now with our forwards playing well we needed our backs to do the same. Instead they just kicked our ball away the whole time. We really need to start Goosen and Lambie together and hope they don’t get instructed to play the same game as Morne and Zane to kick everything away.
I doubt Meyer will ever play Lambie though. He is purely there to cover injury and what a waste of such a class player. For me a team is 22 not just 15. All the players have a roll to play and they should all come on at some stage. Meyer’s treatment of Lambie is shameful really. If you have a player with that talent on your bench he should be used, similar to what Skinstadt used to be used, coming on in the last 25min. Not 5min he can’t do anything with 5min of play.
16 Sep 2012, 10:36 am
@The Bill-45:
My problem is that he is not the number 1 fullback at his province. If we pick a Springbok team on potential only, then we need to be patient and accept losses more
16 Sep 2012, 10:37 am
@sparticus-51: Very good post as always sparticus. Agree.
16 Sep 2012, 10:39 am
The problem I have with Lambie and players like Hougie, Engelbrecht etc.
If they want a position, they need to put their hands up at their unions and
not mope on the side. I Lambie wants to be fullback, he needs to state it. I won’t
pick Lambie simply because he is looking to fill a position. I’d pick Taute as
he is primarily a Fullback and can do a bit part of centre. The best players
ever were not jack of all trades.
16 Sep 2012, 10:42 am
RIP to Nevin Spence. Many of us watched the young man playing rugby for Ulster. Very shocking news for me to read of his passing yesterday.
16 Sep 2012, 10:45 am
@The Bill-45: Agree Bill. Lambie should be given a start or at least come on in the 2nd half. Such a waste to have a world class player just sitting on the bench for 3 games and only getting 15min of play. Meyer’s treatment of Lambie is shameful. He is such a class player.
Lambie’s crime is that he is a class player in 3 different positions, so Meyer sees him as a brilliant replacement if any get injured. However, he is better than two of the players that he has starting at fh and fb.
Next game Meyer should start with Goosen and Lambie. Let us build now with the younsters now later. We have lost this RC so have nothing to lose. We will beat Oz and Nz on home soil. Give these two outstanding players a chance to start. Or at the very least come on in the 2nd half.
16 Sep 2012, 10:46 am
@Puma-58: should read = Let us build now with the younsters rather now than later.
16 Sep 2012, 10:48 am
@Puma-58:
I disagree, Lambie plays best at flyhalf. He his not better than alot of other
players at fullback. Lambie’s playing style does not suit Heyneke, that’s why he
hasn’t been picked.
16 Sep 2012, 10:53 am
The only hope really is that Morne gets injured and the rest of the players start ignoring Meyer and his ****** game plan.
16 Sep 2012, 10:56 am
#51 Sparticus I may look like a biased bulls fan but i think kirchener is playing good enough tokeep his place in the bok team.He is not a flashy player,but he is solid and dependable at the back, his defence is usually good and he is good at taking the high ball.The only defeciency in his game is he is a bit predictable on attack.
16 Sep 2012, 11:00 am
@blueboy-62: That’s like saying Malema is a bit thick or the Meyer is a bit conservative …
16 Sep 2012, 11:02 am
@RugbyStudent-60: I do agree. Lambie’s best position is at flyhalf, he is actually brillinat fh and a very good fb and inside centre. But he should have come on for Zane. For at least 25min, he would have added something more.
Yes this game plan Meyer is playing does not suit Lambie and nor Jantjies and for that matter Goosen. But he will change Goosen to become more like Morne. I really hope not though.
16 Sep 2012, 11:06 am
@Puma-64:
That’s the problem. Its all conjecture whether Lambie is a good fullback. Nobody knows if Lambie can perform at fullback.
16 Sep 2012, 11:07 am
@RugbyStudent-60: Another thing you need to remember. Lambie played for us at fb during the world cup last year. He was excellent there. He has proved he can play at at this level. Leaving him on the bench for the whole game is a waste having him there. He should have come on yesterday with 25min left to play.
16 Sep 2012, 11:11 am
Players who the fans liked to criticize the most on Keo over the years:
2006: Brian Habana
2007:
2008: JP Pieterson
2009: Adi Jacobs
2010: Ricky January
2011: Brian Habana / John Smit
2012: Zane Kirchner / Morne steyn
Hmmmmm……………………….
16 Sep 2012, 11:11 am
@RugbyStudent-65: He can read, read my post 66. He played for the Boks at the highest level at fb. During a World Cup. He was one of the players that came back from that world cup with his head held high. He was excellent at fb there. He has proved he can do it and he can take plenty pressure.
Right now Meyer is just taking away his confidence by leaving him on the bench for the whole game.
Also remember the Boks BEST game was when Lambie came on in the 2nd half against England and he played fb. Again the next test when he started that first half in the 2nd test against England was again when Boks played their best. He has proved himself mate, so there is no excuse to leave him out on the bench. No excuse at all.
16 Sep 2012, 11:13 am
I think HM should be apologizing to Lambie too. Sending a player on 5 minutes is an absolute disgrace. What could he achieve in this time? Zero. What influence can he have? Zero.
Lambie has become a victim, just like Goosen of HM Blue bias…
Okey I feel better now!
16 Sep 2012, 11:16 am
#63 Kaksioek,You are 100% correct about Malema he is as thick as a bucket of shite,and you could be correct that HM is a bit conservative in his selections i do not know,but as i have posted earlier i think kirchener is playing good enough to keep his place.
16 Sep 2012, 11:17 am
The Boks are proving to be the laughing stock of this new championship,the pumas have arrived with such passion and heart they are making the boks look a bit of a joke with their lumbering, disjointed, clueless rugby.
The wallabies who have a pretty ordinary team are managing to get wins from hopeless positions and that is a very good sign.We look more dangerous against the ABs than we do against the wallabies we definitely have a mental block against them at the moment I mean 1 from 8 wow.
Both the pumas and the boks have 2 home games now,but I fancy pumas to beat wallabies at home cant say the same for boks which means in all probability boks will pick up wooden spoon for this year now that is embarrasing.
16 Sep 2012, 11:18 am
@Gumboots-69: Bill,
Also I have read the kiwis are totally mystified why Meyer just leaves Lambie on the bench. Even they can not understand why he is not used. Meyer’s treatment of Lambie is most definitely a disgrace. I am totally losing all respect for this Coach.
Now I feel better after saying that too….
16 Sep 2012, 11:19 am
@Puma-53:
You’re right – but I don’t think it is mandatory that all 22 play – a player should only come on to make a genuine impact or replace an injury … not because it is the “done thing” – you see players like Bismarck playing a blinder and then they are changed merely because there is a replacement hooker on the bench – indeed, if the starting 15 are all on fire you shouldn’t rock the boat and bring on one sub.
The other thing – Frans Steyn should be taking all the kicks – why keep giving it to someone like Morne who is totally off-form: it’s South African thinking at its most box rigid: if Frans has that sort of accuracy from 58 metres how much easier is for him from, say 30 metres … duh …. plus his temperament is big-match and ice cool killer; we’re still wasting his talents.
16 Sep 2012, 11:22 am
Meyer’s record AWAY from home:
Played: 3
Win: 0
Lose: 2
Draw: 1
Win/lose ratio: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000%
16 Sep 2012, 11:22 am
@4moreyears-71:
Pumas may do what the Boks could not against the ABs and that finish.
I believe we could lose our first game against the Pumas this year.
16 Sep 2012, 11:23 am
@Puma-72:
I lost my respect the day he chose his first squad. When he picked the whole Bulls team the day they were beaten at home by a very understrength Stormer team. He was hoping the Sharks would side with him, but it has blown up now. He is the master of his own downfall. Steyn has proved that you can’t play a guy in Test rugby and hope he finds form there. He drops Daniel after a good show but keeps Steyn after putrid form. Makes one think…
Now I even feel better!
16 Sep 2012, 11:25 am
I see NOBODY admitting the PIENAAR mistake
The entire fckup fallout is now on Morne Steyn’s lack of goal kicking prowess
Meanwhile I CLEARLY stated already vs Argentina.. DONT PLAY PIENAAR at scrumhalf
How come it ALWAYS takes either a 49-0 hiding or 2 consecutive LOSSES to FIND OUT what is SO GODDAMN SIMPLE a deduction to make??
PIENAAR AT 9 is a DISASTER !!!
ALL the damn FUNDI”S here saying DROP Hougaard to wing and play Pienaar at 9
Are you PEOPLE goddamn INSANE ?? !!
Hougaard at 9 and we would have WON vs Australia.. Hougaard at 9 and we would have WON vs AB’s
Notwithstanding the OTHER outright FCKUPS this MORON Heyneke keeps on making like Morne at 10, Potgieter to 7, Kirchner to FB, Steyn and JdV at center, Greyling to LH
ALL those outright FCKUPS notwithstanding.. ONE simple clear as day correct call by playing Hougaard at his PREFERRED position SCRUM HALF and half the battle is WON.., and KEEP Pienaar on bench – or if you really need to play Pienaar somewhere then rather have him start at 10 and bring Goosen on later.
Pienaar should NEVER have stopped playing fly half .. he is NOT a scrum half’s ARSEHOLE..!!! Just another goddamn HOPELESS FDP wannabe IDIOT .!!!
PdV and John Smit made a HUGE fckup DELUXE when they dropped Pienaar vs BIL’s and INSTILLED Morne Steyn at 10 for EVERMORE.. THAT was the Fckup of ALL fckups.. because SINCE then with Boks playing FdP at 9 and MS at 10 Boks PROUD record vs top 5 competition has been
PLAYED 14 LOST 11 less than 30% success rate. with Morne Steyn at 10 and FdP at 9 playing kick and chase play to our so called STRENGTHS rugby
And ALL these TWATS thinking FdP is now the ANSWER.. You MORONS are THICKER than a bunch of extinct DINOSAURS .. !!!!
16 Sep 2012, 11:25 am
Just managed to watch a replay of the game. The bok forwards bossed the ruck and maul, and won the collisions. Won most of the scrums as well.
However, the Ab forwards were better in some other areas:
- lineouts
- handling skills (which created the dagg try for the AB’s, and bombed opportunities for the boks via grayling)
- attacking gaps rather than smashing into the opposition.
The Ab backs outplayed their opposites, with the exception of savea ( hougard better) and piri (on par with pienar).
Therefore I don’t think the boks dominated us to the extent some on this site think, and whilst it is clear the boks are going to push the all blacks I’m not sure a change in the pecking order is imminent.
16 Sep 2012, 11:25 am
@Hurricane-75:
Kia Ora Hurricane! The AB’s know how to win tight games. They will beat the Argies but yes the Argies have brought something really encouraging to the Southern Hemisphere. They might still be team to start challenges the AB’s…
16 Sep 2012, 11:27 am
@grant10-14: MS will be first choice
flyhalf in our next test.Bet your house on it.
He will be told to hone his kicking skills in next 2 weeks..
Will not improve his all round flyhalf play,I,m afraid.
16 Sep 2012, 11:27 am
@fitz1ella-77:
He was very slow and kicked aimlessly. He was playing to plan Skop. He just couldn’t deliver on the plan. Aimless kicking and very slow service. Also runs sideways…
16 Sep 2012, 11:28 am
@corporal punishment-78:
Ja Kruger was not good yesterday, but he was subbed…
16 Sep 2012, 11:29 am
@Hurricane-75: Howzit Hurricane,
Well if Meyer had pulled Morne off in the first half and brought on Goosen, we would have beaten ABs yesterday.
We have a stubborn coach, who will rather we lose than take off a player he knows that is not playing well. Then again he dropped other players for no reason. So just favours Morne for some reason. Gives some players more chance than others it seems.
16 Sep 2012, 11:30 am
@Gumboots-76: Well I am feeling that way now. Wish that Smal got the job.
16 Sep 2012, 11:32 am
@Puma-84:
Agree!
16 Sep 2012, 11:32 am
Willie Le Roux
JdV (c)
JdJ
F. Steyn
B. Habana
J. Goosen
F. Hougaard
D. Vermeulen
W. Alberts
F. Louw (vc)
E. Etzebeth
F. Vd Merwe
P. Cilliers
D. Fourie
B. Mtwarira
JC Janse van Rensburg. A. Strauss / C. Ralapelle, A. Bekker, M. Coetsee, R. Pienaar, R. Rhule / L. Mapoe,. A. Coetsee
16 Sep 2012, 11:32 am
@Gumboots-81: Remember Ruan in the first test against England? He was superb there. Then I think he was allowed to play a different game. As we picked up the tempo once Lambie and he came on. Now he has him kicking everything, like wanting all the scrummies to be a Fourie du Preez clone I think. He has messed with Hougies game there too.
16 Sep 2012, 11:33 am
@ 75 hurricane: I think it is unlikely the ABs will lose to the Pumas this year. As demonstrated again last night, the pumas aren’t fit enough to play the whole 80mins, the run out of steam at about 60 minutes. The AB’s on the other hand are an 80 minute team.
We need to think hard about who will start at HB tho. Tempting to start with Kerr Barlow with smith to come on at 60 mims to speed the game up.
16 Sep 2012, 11:33 am
Okay I am out of here.
Cheers everyone.
16 Sep 2012, 11:35 am
@Puma-87:
I have said weeks ago! It doesn’t actually matter who he chooses. With his game plan he sets people up. He wants to clone Fourie, you are right.
16 Sep 2012, 11:36 am
#77 Fitz1ella Skop i have to agree with you about pienaar even the kiwi commentators stated that fact that his kicking is very poor and his distributation is slow.Has pienaar ever played at full back,i am asking as i cannot remember him playing there.
16 Sep 2012, 11:37 am
Pumas lost to wallabies because of their kicking,boks to ABs because of theirs(29 pts including 2 clear cut tries)boks also left 19 pts on the field against wallabies not including the difficult chances oh what couldf have been.
I think a coach often gets unfairly criticized because he doesnt make players drop balls or commit penaltys byu in the last 2 games he is cleary at fault as the mistake has been down to selection and that is his resposibility.
16 Sep 2012, 11:37 am
@Puma-89:
Cheers – also outta here…
Well done with the Sharks win! Fully deserved.
Holmes and Jebb must get what they deserve.
16 Sep 2012, 11:38 am
@Gumboots-81: Pienaar was NEVER going to spark ANYTHING into Boks back line.. never or ever..
ALL those crying for Pienaar at 9 and Hougaard at wing
You got your WISH
2 Losses in succession
And if they STILL don’t know YET that Hougaard HAS to Start and play at 9 THROUGHOUT.. then they are NOT rugby thinking boffins WHATSOEVER.. and I doubt ever will be..
This coach has made some HORENDOUS decisiopns and Pienaar to 9 and Hougaard to wing is right up there with the WORST of them.. along with ALL the other KNEE JERK goddamn about face back to front decisions he has made
Like dropping Brussow for Potgieter, like dropping Kolisi to the CC and then LOSING Kolisi to injury, Like dropping Daniel to CC but keeping Potgieter, like playing Pienaar at 9 and Kirchner at 15 and Morne Steyn at 10, like substituting Beast for Greyling..
This coach is an outright MORON deluxe and yet there are STILL some disciples who actually think he KNOWS wtf he is doing..!!!
16 Sep 2012, 11:39 am
I think HM needs to make a big call on JDV, He looks out of sorts at 13 however he cant take frans steyns jersey who imo is not suited to fb. If he is to be selected as a captain then HM is doing exactly what pdivvy did with john smit, Also js was a great captain while jdv does not seem to offer anything in that department for the boks. im a strong believer in your captain being a forward, someone who is constantly getting stuck in and leading the charge inspiring his men, jean is often out on the fringes waiting for ball that never comes so cant really rally the troops through strong clean outs or big hits.
I would actually play jdv off the wood as a center/wing cover. Rather start with jdj, Give Goosen a go at starting dropping morne completely and give Lambie a run at fullback to silence his critics or those claiming Zane deserves his spot because he is ok? i have always been impressed with Lambie when he puts on a bok jersey, also plays with a lot of composure and intelligence. HM better be careful he does not decide to go abroad.
So with that
1 beast
2 Strauss
3 Jannie
4 Eben
5 Bekker
6 Flow
7 Alberts
8 Vermulen
9 Hougart
10 goosen
11 Habs
12 frans
13 jdj
14 is jpp coming back?
15 Lambie
16 connie/pat
17 Burden
18 Flip
19 Coetzee
20 Piennar
21 Tauta
22 Jdv
16 Sep 2012, 11:39 am
Skop i also agree with you on deon fourie he is much better than liebenberg at hooker,as i don`t think strauss is good enough at test level,maybe fourie should be starting as he deffiately has that mongrel in him.
16 Sep 2012, 11:42 am
@82 gumboots: good point. I think we still got a couple of steals/ disrupts after Bekker came on. The bok locks did well cleaning out the ruck tho, a mauling and in defense. Just highlights how rare it is to find a player like matfiled who is good at all elements of forward play.
16 Sep 2012, 11:47 am
@blueboy-91: He played at FB under White and Jones and under PdV I think.. he was NOT a success at FB.. but he would be FAR better at FB than at 9.. He is NOT a 9
Pienaar should NEVER have been dropped from fly half, he was a silky running creative type fly half but didn’t have the BMT to take critical penalties at posts, so he should NOT have been required to take critical penalties at posts, we had Frans Steyn and Montgomery and some others who could take kicks at posts, same as Honiball never took kicks at posts, Pienaar should have STAYED at fly half.. He is NOT a game winning scrum half. he would be FAR better than Morne Steyn at fly half… Francoise Hougaard IS a game winning SCRUM HALF but should NOT be required to play a FDP type box kick and chase game
That is just dumb delusional NUTS..!!!!
we have NOT WON ANY top flight test with or without FdP in the past 3 years and counting playing FdP and Morne Steyn with this ARCHAIC JW / Smit / Heyneke Meyer kick and chase GARBAGE
3 wins from 14 tests under those conditions..
ONE win vs Australia at Loftus 2010
ONE win vs NZ in PE
and ONE win vs Wales in WC 2011
against ELEVEN LOSSES since 3N 2009 playing this ARCHAIC PATHETIC BULLSHIT style of rugby..!!!
and ALL the Boffins want FdP BACK..!!!
Bloody Morons united in absolute delusional IDIOCY..!!
16 Sep 2012, 11:47 am
Ps pienar was terrible. Slow slow clearance and very inaccurate kicking. He did hassle piri to force turnovers a couple of times, but overall I think he hurt the boks almost as much as morne. Nothing new in this, he is a poor halfback.
16 Sep 2012, 11:48 am
@rvanaardt-95:
who will captain the side without jdv ?
16 Sep 2012, 11:51 am
@blueboy-96: Correct
Deon Fourie at 2, Strauss or Ralapelle on bench
Brussow either at 6 or on bench if we start Louw at 6, but Louw can also play 7, same as Coetsee
Alberts hybrid between 4 and 7, start Vd Merwe 4 with Etzebeth 5 and have Bekker / Kruger on bench for 2nd row.
Vermeulen, Alberts, Louw, Coetsee, Brussow should be the loose trio contingent with Alberts able to swap to 2nd row enforcer if required.
16 Sep 2012, 11:54 am
The Steyn creature has been ineffective all year. As for Sideshow Bob, well what can you say? What you see is what you get. If Meyer is serious about winning, he needs to eliminate the Steyn creature, the Greyling beast and the non-existent fullback.
9. Hougaard
10. Goosen/Lambie
11. Habana
12. Serfontein
13. Jordaan
14. JPP
15. Frans Steyn
This would be a very competitive backline in a few years time.
16 Sep 2012, 11:54 am
@hsark-100: i would give FLow a crack, being a captain and fetcher means you will probably get away with a bit more too, he has experience captaining and i think could be good, would certainly offer more than jdv
16 Sep 2012, 11:54 am
@98 fitzfella: very good ponta you make.
Did you notice that for the habana try, morne was standing very flat and popped up the pass up only a couple of metres from the AB line? This was what created the try. However, it seemed a complete accident that he was so flat – he had run in to help tidy up a messy lineout.
What if he stood flat more often,???? Makes me think…
16 Sep 2012, 11:57 am
JdV is UNHAPPY.. he is having to fulfill a captaincy role in a setup which he KNOWS is contra to proper rugby decision making..
JdV can play 14 wing or he can play 13
EXCEPT the back line HAS to have pro active activity from 9 and 10
Play Hougaard at 9 and Goosen at 10 and the ENTIRE Bok back line will transform overnight with JdV at 12 or 13 or 14
and Frans Steyn is FAR too individualist.. he makes ground on his own but he is NOT a very creative inside channel midfielder, he is shutting JdV OUT the game altogether.
Perhaps Frans Steyn best position is actually Full Back.
16 Sep 2012, 12:02 pm
@corporal punishment-104: Err, Moroné wasn’t near that try, it was Flo who popped the ball.
16 Sep 2012, 12:04 pm
#98 Fitz1ella Skop Doc Craven used to say NEVER play a player out of position how true these words are coming true Hougaard MUST go back to fly half as HM is going to waste this guys talents at scrum half,JDV is shite at outside centre in fact he should not be playing bok rugby as he is by his sellby date,Habana if he has to play must go back to left wing as looks his more natural position.I also think F Steyn should be back at full back as he is not the same force at inside centre as he once was.
16 Sep 2012, 12:05 pm
Yes Louw made the pop up pass that put Habana away.. not Morne ..
was only Frans Louw who had the insight and rugby intelligence to make the break through
16 Sep 2012, 12:06 pm
I’m pretty sure Biks can win their home matches v oz and ABs if fourie, brussow, hougaard and goosen are picked – and etsebeth returns for flip – if elstadt and etsebeth were partnered the boks would be even better.
It’s tough being a flying particularly tge kicker but morne must go back to CC and try recover somE form – it’s now time to try Goosen and get the backline moving. Frans stem willl look a completely different prospect with two attacking halfbacks inside of him – kirchener must also go if he’s not going to deviate from the kicing game plan
16 Sep 2012, 12:08 pm
Where is the rest of the interview??
HM:
“But Morne has also shown in the past that he has mental toughness so it is great to have two flyhalves like that. It’s great that Johan is coming through. I will look at the video, take the emotion out of it and maybe make a few hard calls,” he said.
So IF HM makes some hard calls MS might and hopefully will be dropped from the squad completely. I hope Jantjies gets a call up, he’s been outstanding and has even shown his worth in a struggling Lions team in Super rugby. And he’s a great goal kicker!
HM better make some hard calls. He should know by now that some changes can make a huge difference! And hopefully he will look at the video and start to realise that this game plan will never make the boks the number one team in the world!
This game was there for the taking and the players cant be blamed for implementing a stupid outdated gameplan.
16 Sep 2012, 12:09 pm
If fourie is not picked and flip and jannie and Strauss start – I fancy even oz to upset us at home and ABs will win too
16 Sep 2012, 12:11 pm
Bok back line
Hougaard, Goosen, Habana / Rhule, Serfontein, De Jongh / Mapoe, JPP / Jordaan, W. Le Roux / F. Steyn
Bench: Pretorius / Pienaar, Lambie / Jantjies, A. Coetsee / F Steyn
16 Sep 2012, 12:13 pm
@106 nanashi: I stand corrected! Great thinking by flo then, the pass made the break.
I guess my point still stands – standing flat on attack is the way to create gaps, even if it is risky (intercepts) and vulnerable to a good rush defense.
16 Sep 2012, 12:15 pm
Ring some changes – put some fresh changes into the pack – what does fourie actually have to do to get picked? He is head and shoulders better than every hooker in sa (apart from Bismarck) and is actually better than virtually all of tge loosies in sa too – he was immense AGAIN yesterday – no wonder this talent is going to Europe with these fools in charge – get the halfbacks right, bring de Jong into attack and drop kirchener out of it.
16 Sep 2012, 12:16 pm
@cab 111: hard to see boks losing both home matches. Should beat ozzies, and about a 50% chance of beating abs based on the Dunedin game.
16 Sep 2012, 12:18 pm
@Jeez-110:
He has TO DROP Pienaar from 9 and play Hougaard..
that was the DUMBEST decision he has made almost all season and that is some dumb decision because he made a few VERY dumb decisions beside that one.
16 Sep 2012, 12:19 pm
Im seeing positive signs…this could be the first Bok coach to admit mistakes.
Now lets see if he acts on them.
16 Sep 2012, 12:22 pm
@fitz1ella-105:
Pienaars tactical kicking was awful, but it wasnt worse compared to Hougaard’s in the previous tests. And Pienaar will be better – he normally is a very good tactical kicker from the base. And has been in great form in Europe.
His distribution was a lot quicker and cleaner than Hougaard’s or didnt you watch the previous games? He deserved to be dropped out of position. And Pienaar deserves to get more chances. Hougaard played 5 **** games. His time for now should be up.
Then you can also blame the gameplan. Pienaar and MS didnt kick well, but they should never had kicked as often anyway. And that stupid traintjie thing the forwards set up behind the ruck before Pienaar kicks! They obviously learnt that from their coach.
Hougaard will never be a good 9 in this team with this gameplan. His strengths does not lie in a kick and chase gameplan. He will never be allowed the freedom to read the situation and that is exactly what makes him such a good and dangerous 9.
16 Sep 2012, 12:24 pm
HM must go. You cannot have a coach that takes forever to learn WTF works. The guy is stubborn dictator that has no business coaching the Boks.
16 Sep 2012, 12:24 pm
Corporal punishment
Boks go into home matches with same team and gameplan andcrgey will lose both – too a v average oz side who shoulda been beaten by pumas and a below par AB side too.
All he has to do is make a handful of changes and blast this kick kick kick **** into hyperspace and Boks can with both – if he persists, we will lose and I suspect the dropping of morne will not be enough.
16 Sep 2012, 12:27 pm
@fitz1ella-112: Where have you been? Hougaard had a terrible test season so far at 9. Absolutely terrible. It was in the news papers and Pienaar deserves a chance. Pienaars kicking was **** but he did his other scrumhalf duties pretty well.
You must really hate Pienaar, but i dont buy into your weak reasoning.
16 Sep 2012, 12:29 pm
Hougaard should have been the scrumhalf for tge last 2 years already and he’s natural strengths shouldve been encouraged – dynamic scrumhalf play to get go-forward – instead they’ve tried to mould a true worldclass weapon into a metronomic kicking robot and in the process completely emasiculated him and blunted one of the Boks few attacking weapons.
16 Sep 2012, 12:29 pm
How is it that these so called rugby geniuses are THAT THICK
WHO in their RIGHT mind plays Pienaar ahead of Hougaard
WHO Persists with a deep pocket kick chase archaic style fly half in Morne Steyn who has LOST Boks the last 11 tests from 14 starts.. WHO ???
WHO plays Potgieter ahead of Brussow or Louw.. WHO ??
WHO takes Beast off and puts Greyling on at a critical time of proceedings .. WHO??
WHO cries like a goddamn BABY pining like a love sick MORON for FdP and Matfield and Bakkies Botha ??
This THICK IDIOT of a coach is supposed to be next to God according some disciples YET he is having to LEARN what it TAKES to be a wide awake international coach at this level from SCRATCH… even armchair ARSEHOLES who NEVER coached any rugby in their lives could have TOLD him what is a Good call from a BAD one..
16 Sep 2012, 12:29 pm
@cab-120: Spot on, and he should get a backline coach with some decent credentials too!
Dropping MS and Kirchner ect. will only deny the real problem
16 Sep 2012, 12:38 pm
@Jeez-121: nope you are the idiot
Hougaard is 100% BETTER scrum half to ALL the FdP CLONES and wannabe’s
If Meyer had STUCK with Hougaard through the Argentina test and the last 2 tests against Aus and AB’s he would have won THEM all
I am100% CONVINCED about that..
Its all these MORONS who don’t know the BEGINNING of what actually WORKS on a rugby field and what Don’t
If Hougaard had played scrumhalf instead of that kick chase MORON FdP at WC 2011 then PdV would also have WON THAT..!!
along with playing Smit at 2 and Spies at 8 and Burger at first receiver ball carry DUNCE.. FdP at 9 was ACTUALLY what has KILLED Boks OFF the ENTIRE last 3 seasons..
So WHERE the FcK have YOU BEEN the PAST 3 Seasons watching this ARCHAIC DUMB as Trash rugby philosophy go from BAD to WORSE under Smit, FdP and every dumb moronic IMBECILE that thinks FdP style garbage rugby will STILL WORK
11 Losses from 14 Starts under FdP and Morne Steyn with Smit at 2 and Spies at 8 .. That is the ACTUAL result
Hougaard should have been at 9 since 2010 with John Smit and Spies GONE ( and Burger NOT at first receiver) .. and Boks would have CREAMED the opposition instead of this OUTRIGHT FdP style GARBAGE we been aiming at.
16 Sep 2012, 12:38 pm
Pumas are actually playing great rugby – got absolutely zero backline but are counterrucking tge big boys right off tge ball – Los Pumas are a fantastic addition.
16 Sep 2012, 12:43 pm
The Blue Bulls have tried to CLONE Hougaard into their premier god FdP
and Meyer is the BIGGEST culprit for that outright FCKUP of an attempt
Hougaard is head and shoulders a more dynamic courageous and street smart bust a gut rugby player / scrum half than FdP and Pienaar could EVER DREAM of ever wanting to be..
But Meyer and his BB ARSEHOLES have ALMOST killed all that..
Not Quite.. because Hougaard is first and foremost a die hard all or nothing type rugby player.. something Pienaar and the bang broek little chickenshit FdP could NEVER hope to ever emulate.
16 Sep 2012, 12:45 pm
yawn
16 Sep 2012, 12:49 pm
The dropping of morne is a good first step but there are too many mr average’s in the Bok side – you are not going to win test matches against oz and nz with so many mediocrities – meyer has actually managed to pick a mediocre side from one of the most talented groups of players SA have had since readmission
It’s horrifically bad – what is worse is that his one real strength – drilling forwards is being rendered completely ineffective by his very own ineffective mediocre selections. Pick Fourie and tell him to rip into it, pick brussow, pick elstadt and do the same and all of a sudden he’ll get tge kind of go-forward he’s looking for.
Put some decent attacking talent behind that and you are going to ask tge 2 top sides in the world problems, otherwise you won’t.
16 Sep 2012, 12:53 pm
@Jeez-128: yawn all you like you know fckall about what works and what don’t
Hougaard should be at 9 .. FULL STOP.. and M. Steyn should be dropped.. and Kirchner too
Spies is gone thank fck… so NEXT is play Hougaard 9, Goosen 10 and anyone ahead of Kirchner preferably Willie le Roux
But idiots such as you will persist with PIENAAR at 9
Says it all.. thicker than thick .. how many LOSSES you still aiming at..??
16 Sep 2012, 13:02 pm
W. Le Roux / (A.Coetsee / P. Lambie)
JPP / Jordaan)
JdV (c) / (de Jongh / Mapoe)
F. Steyn / (Serfontein)
Habana / (R. Rhule)
Goosen / (Jantjies)
Hougaard / (Pretorius / Van Zyl)
Vermeulen / (Coetsee / Daniel)
Alberts / (Elstadt / Coetsee / Louw)
Brussow / (Louw / Coetsee / Kolisi)
Etzebeth / (Bekker / Kruger)
Elstadt / (vd Merwe / Bressler) / Alberts)
Cilliers / (JdP / M. Vd Merwe)
Bismark / (Fourie)
Mtwarira / (Janse van Rensburg / Ooosthuizen)
This group would KLAP ALL comers and Oz and Ab’s would be destroyed without doubt.
16 Sep 2012, 13:04 pm
Meyer is the Steyn on an otherwise unblemished, innocent SA rugby team.
he is the beast, a goose wrapped in the flouw that Pacino states in scent of a woman
hooha. hooha
even fat Allberts flips the music Strauss preambles
and us kiwis await our spies
our Ruans (ruins)
for we are but lambies to the slaughter
and we would be inZane to think otherwise
in the land of the rainbow
49 odd percent is king.
and the judiciary
those men Greyling
16 Sep 2012, 13:06 pm
@poppa69-132: very good..
so who still thinks you’re … dumb?
put all these saffa halfwits to SHAME
16 Sep 2012, 13:06 pm
1. beast
2. Change (fourie)
3. Change (cilliers or anyone else)
4. Change (should be elstadt or alberts)
5. Etsebeth or kruger
6. Change (Brussow)
7. Alberts
8. Vermuelen
9. Change (hougaard)
10. Change (goosen)
11. Habana
12. Frans
13. Change (de Jong)
14. JdV/Jp
15. Change (aplon, viljoen, taute, le roux whoever)
16 Sep 2012, 13:11 pm
It is difficult, frankly, not to concur with the burgeoning school of rugby-lovers who feel that South Africa’s selection of a dour, formulaic flyhalf (ditto the fullback, Zane Kirchner?) and lopsided penchant for the hoist-and-hope principle, is somehow a copout, an act of virtual cowardice and a signal only of almost willing bankruptcy
Thats what I been saying,.Heyneke is fear filled…and that **** spreads…
16 Sep 2012, 13:14 pm
those men Greyling
Ashwin their features
stunned Mallets
camped easy
and falling under the Marshall’s spell
kmow that the night is always all black
just before the wrath of Dawn.
16 Sep 2012, 13:15 pm
Meyer has been found wanting. For every position we should be nurturing 2 players. Example…fullback. Taute / Lambie, flyhalf Jantjies / Goosen….etc. The trick in SA is to find a coach who knows how to select and bring out the best.
Or better yet get a foreigner to coach the boks…there will be no provincial bias and no baggage. Wayne Smith, Gatland, Mitchell etc.
And JDV is no captain. He does not give me confidence in interviews. Personally I would have gone with Joshua Strauss as captain. He has always impressed me as a player and captain.
16 Sep 2012, 13:15 pm
cheers Skop. just having a bit of fun
16 Sep 2012, 13:29 pm
HM is the classic micro manager when the job of national coach requires a macro manager.
The reason he chose so many BBs had nothing to do with loyalty towards them, but because he’d either trained them to do as he wanted, or in the case of Pottie and JJ he’d personally recruited them for the Bulls to be trained.
I reckon his comment that his job is to coach, not just select, is a telling one. He’s treating the players as if they’re inexperienced recruits who need to be moulded into his vision of the finished article to implement his game plan, rather than the experienced professionals most of them are.
16 Sep 2012, 13:36 pm
15. Lambie
14. JDV
13. Jordaan*
12. F Steyn
11. Habana
10. Goose
9. Hougard
8. Vermeelen
7. Alberts
6. Brossouw*
5. Etsebeth
4. Flip
3. DuPlesis
2. Strauss
1. Beast
Subs:
Coenie*, Liebenberg, Bekker, Coetzee, Pienaar, Jantjies, Taute*
* Hopefully back from injury
Injured:
Bismark, Schalk, Kanko, J Smith, JPP
16 Sep 2012, 13:39 pm
Very true David
oz at home is non-negotiable with the talent in sa at the moment – stormers came top, sharks into the final and bulls narrowly missed out in pkaoff spot.
If boks lose to a v ordinary oz side at home meyer must be sacked.
16 Sep 2012, 13:40 pm
@David-139:
And that is why JdV’s body language is reeking of disgust and outright distaste at the style of management .. / leadership that is being deployed by Meyer
In this capacity PdV is/was light years ahead of either Meyer or White in respect of player morale boosting and buy in decision taking management.. only PdV went too far the other way giving Matfield, Smit and FdP almost carte blanche on any and all decision taking on or off the field..
Meyer has tried his despotic my way or the highway approach and JdV is just TOO experienced and mature to buy into it.. and his response and body language is showing clearly he is NOT comfortable having to front up to the BULLSHIT as the captain / team spokesman under the archaic circumstances..
Meyer will have to LEARN and learn QUICKLY that this is NOT BB kindergarten style rugby philosophy he is trying to instill here otherwise his whole grandiose ambitious self centered vision is going to go BUST.. if it hasn’t started doing so already.
16 Sep 2012, 13:41 pm
@David-139:
My main concern is how HM mentors Goosen.
When Morne started his professional career he was a running flyhalf.
Goosen will do everything to please his Bok coach and that could be detrimental to his natural abilities.
16 Sep 2012, 13:41 pm
@blik-140: nice setup 10000 times better than the one picked by the national coach
where are all the Potgieter pundits disappeared to lately?
16 Sep 2012, 13:45 pm
@Jeraldjay-143: my biggest fear also he can destroy Goosen’s natural flair game as the BB hierarchy have almost already destroyed Hougaard with the SAME one dimensional goddamn IDIOCY.. trying to clone him into FdP
If Meyer tries creating a Liefling / M. Steyn clone out of Goosen I may actually take the goddamn distasteful neanderthal like rearguard reverse style action PERSONALLY
16 Sep 2012, 13:45 pm
@blik-140:
Not bad, I would move Frans to 15, select Brache at 12 (the best distributor in SA rugby) , Rule at 14, F Louw at 6 and Bekker for Flip wih Elstadt on the bench.
J Smith and maybe Schalk are history.
16 Sep 2012, 13:50 pm
Correct Jerald
and what is worse is if the same mediocre pack is picked and he suffers from the same stagnant ball – rung some gdam changes – what’s it going to take – a wooden spoon – Argentina are looking more competitive than the Boks.
16 Sep 2012, 13:50 pm
@Robzim-146: Smith and Schalk are history.. and we have WAY more able bodied replacements than both of them currently
Flip played a decent game at 4 enforcer yesterday.. put in big effort.. Our front 8 while Beast was on actually had the upper hand throughout and only Pienaar, Steyn and Kirchner fckd the entire game UP..!!
I always said Etzebeth to 4 enforcer was a WRONG choice.. Elstadt or Flip or Alberts or the kid Willemse going to Bulls from Lions must play 4 enforcer and etzebeth must share 5 with Bekker.
J. Kruger is more a hybrid No.5 lock / No.7 flank than a fully fledged 2nd row option, little like Elstadt or Alberts with less grunt.
16 Sep 2012, 13:55 pm
We’ve almost come full circle here – right back to laager conservative mindset
completely unbelievable. I thought HM was one of new breed , some of these comments re the players and apologies to mccaw are crazy.
16 Sep 2012, 13:57 pm
Flip is not the right choice, neither are Strauss nor jannie – watch oz beat boks even if goosen selected.
16 Sep 2012, 14:02 pm
Well I am still confident HM will get if right. Most SA coaches have had change foisted upon them. Divvy was relevant to choose Brussow and Morne, but when these changes were made unavoidable look what happened. We haven’t had a truly visionary and brave coach since Carel du Plessis and we sent him packing as soon as his plans started to yield fruit. HM is the tortoise in he tortoise and the hare story. Vasbyt manne.
16 Sep 2012, 14:02 pm
Imagine if Aplon played in place of Kirchner yesterday.
- He would be on par in terms of distance kicking.
- Defensively he would show more heart. Might even have prevented Aaron Smith’s try.
But he would definitely have scored that try in the 5th minute or gave a decent pass to Habana to score.
16 Sep 2012, 14:05 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-28: Even if you beat the kiwis, you still have to beat the Aussies
16 Sep 2012, 14:15 pm
All this pain and suffering will be worthwhile……if it means the end of M steyn…..
Farkit he has been a problem since 2010, along with Spies and Plod real thorns in the Bok side….
we getting closer to the promised land..
16 Sep 2012, 14:15 pm
wat n dumdoos , hm jy gaan jou gat sien sonder n spieel–.hier in sa is daar net 2 uitslae…wen en wen__jjyt dit nog nie eens reggekry om ons
at least n soort van idee te wys wat jou plan is nie, en die kompetisie is al halfpad…fkit man..kom reg!
16 Sep 2012, 14:23 pm
@grant10-154:
Ja, lol… Morne will probably sit out a few tests but I am not so sure that we have seen the last of Spies. Don’t be surprised if Heyecke still sees him as the bok captain to take the team into wc 2015.
16 Sep 2012, 14:25 pm
@Jeez-110: To me that suggests he’s going to take a look at Morne Steyn’s all-round game before taking the decision to drop him. Reading between the lines it seems that Meyer doesn’t rate Goosen’s goal-kicking.
16 Sep 2012, 14:28 pm
@grant10-154:
I agree Grant.
Its not all doom and gloom. We getting there. Could be alot easier but we making progress.
By the way, you been punting the fetcher role since your return to the site. I felt the hybrid role might be the future but Flo influence yesterday vindicated your point.
16 Sep 2012, 14:41 pm
ok so does this means Morne will still start and Goosen will get his game time increased by 5 minutes with each time… we are doomed.
As for Zane v Aplon – Aplon’s only crime is that he is a light weight which ironically is also his biggest strength and allows him to be such a threat on attack .
Please HM also have the balls to sub Jdv and bring on JdJ if the situations requires, to be honest Jdv has been awful and the only thing justifying his selection is that he has been given the captaincy which ironically is what kept Smit in the team ahead of Bismark for so long …hello the same issue Pdv had.
so far Pdv >>>> HM
16 Sep 2012, 14:42 pm
Yesterday the Bok forwards were immense,absolutely gargantuan and ATHLETIC and efficient. Flip vd Merwe had the best game of his career.Frans Louw finally stepped up,his previous performances namely 2010 Dunedin test and following week were below par.Yesterday at breakdown he was a nuisance.
BUT
Again this kick chase-execution of over innovation was fulcrum of team FAILURE.And Meyer persists with it….Idiotic
Ruan Pienaar continues to take long to clear ball from rucks and continues to kick WAYWARDLY with reckless abandon.Celtic Player of the year or whatever he shouldnt be in Bok setup.
Morne Steyn=NUFF SAID. He cant kick his goals,cant fix a defender,a orchestrate backline moves or control game.He is painfully woeful and has been for 18 months now.Enough
Dean Greyling: Disgrace.Period. 5 mins spent on field, 4 penalties,a dropped ball with line beckoning and 10 mins in bin.Worst ever performance in international rugby HISTORY.
And finally captain Jean De Villiers-adds no value.He is NOT a 13 and simply is a passenger.Is not international standard anymore.
Kirchner-does absolutely nothing and kicks away possession as well.Not international standard.
Bok pack I take my hat off to them,one of the best performances Ive ever seen especially with such a limited amount of caps.
16 Sep 2012, 14:48 pm
Home leg
1.Beast
2.Strauss
3.Du plessis
4.Flip vd Merwe
5.Bekker
6.Louw
7.Alberts
8.Vermuelen
9.Hougaard
10.Goosen
11.Aplon
12.Steyn
13.De Jongh
14.Habana
15.Lambie
16.Rallapelle 17.Coenie 18.Kruger 19.Brussow 20.Pienaar 21.Jantjies 22.Mvovo/Le Roux
16 Sep 2012, 14:49 pm
1. Jaco Engels
2. Hannes Franklin
3. Clint Newland
4. Stephen Sykes
5. Barend Pieterse
6. Mpho Mbiyoso
7. Wayne Van Heerden
8. Luke Watson
9. Falie Oelschig
10. George Whitehead
11. Jonghi Nokwe
12. Andries Strauss
13. Wayne Stevens
14. Michael Killian
15. Mzwandile Stick
16. Schalk Ferreira
17. Kevin Buys
18. David Bulbring
19. Darren Nell
20. Scott Mathie
21. Louis Strydom
22. Tiger Mangweni
Look formidable?
Currently, that’s the most likely Southern Kings 22 for Super Rugby next year.
Wayne Van Heerden and Barend Pieterse?
Didn’t they retire from the game a goooood few seasons ago? You may ask.
Tiger Mangweni?
Isn’t he, like, close to 40? You may ask.
Clint Newland? Isn’t he a New Zealander? What about developing local EC talent, as claimed? You may ask.
Schalk Ferreira? Didn’t he break his neck? Isn’t he too small and light for a prop anyway? You may ask.
16 Sep 2012, 14:50 pm
@fitz1ella-98:
Tend to agree – Pienaar is a good utility player and therefore can do bench; his scrumhalf play, particularly kicking was terrible on Saturday – contributed to our demise, in fact.
Thing is Pienaar used to be an excellent scrum half – it was his start-off position for the Sharks, I think – and he should have stayed there; but like Frans Steyn, he was shifted from pillar to post and has lost his rugby identity as a result.
At fullback he was a non-event and I have particular ire about that because Pieter de Villiers actually DROPPED Frans Steyn from FB to the bench for some contrived disciplinary reason (despite blinding performances against the Lions and AB’s/Wallabies in SA) – and he replaced him with Pienaar who simply did not exist in two Aussie games. With the Tri-Nations on the line PdeV reinstated Frans at FB against the AB’s and he responded with a technically faultless performance, which included THREE long-range conversions at sea-level with a wet ball in Test match conditions.
Frans would be best used at FB – although he is playing superbly at inside centre. As for Pienaar … he had his chance at FB and he blew it. Certainly he was not as good as his great father (Gysie) – but nevertheless, he is a great rugby talent which we have squandered.
16 Sep 2012, 14:50 pm
Louis Strydom? Why not just wheel out Louis Koen onto the field? You may ask.
Who’s George Whitehead?
Dare I say it?
16 Sep 2012, 14:51 pm
I don’t understand why Lambie is even in the squad. if he’s not match fit then he should have been at home getting match fit. By the time the aussies arrived in SA, he’d have had several games under his belt but instead he’s had, what, 15mins in the last month?
This super utility is almost unnecessary for the boks when JdV can play 12 and wing, FS can play 12-15, Hougie can play 9 and wing, and Pienaar at a stretch could play 10 but there’s a specialist on the bench anyway.
16 Sep 2012, 14:52 pm
@mshiniwami-161:
Who’s your captain?
16 Sep 2012, 14:57 pm
@puff-166:
pick the best team
THEN
pick your captain
fro those players,i would make Strauss captain
Till Burger returns or Juan Smith
16 Sep 2012, 14:58 pm
@mshiniwami-161: I think Etzebeth is back, does he make your side?
16 Sep 2012, 14:59 pm
Boks for EOYT:
1. Mtawarira, Steenkamp
2. Strauss, Ralepelle
3. Du Plessis, Oosthuizen
4. Etzebeth, Van Der Merwe
5. Bekker, Kruger
6. Brussow, Kolisi
7. Burger, Alberts
8. Vermeulen, Coetzee
9. Du Preez, Hougaard
10. Goosen, Jantjies
11. Habana, Basson
12. Steyn, De Jongh
13. De Villiers, Jordaan
14. Pieterson, Engelbrecht
15. Lambie, Taute
16 Sep 2012, 15:01 pm
@puff-169:
Not all my choices, just who I think Meyer will go with.
16 Sep 2012, 15:03 pm
@Big Hit-168:
Forgot about him,he would go on bench ahead of Kruger.
16 Sep 2012, 15:04 pm
@mshiniwami-160:
I must agree with your comments – especially the observation of Flip Van der Merew and Louw – they both (finally) raised their game to great heights and it was wonderful to see – so did Vermulen after his non-show against the Wallabies: magnificent performance. Bekker also showed up after being nullified in Mendoza.
In fairness the strategy they chose would have looked different had Morne kicked like Morne: in fact it absolutely relies on an accurate kicker and is identical to the All Blacks game when Grant Fox was putting them over (which they altered after France gave them a shake-up in ’93 and they discovered Lomu in ’95 – since then they haven’t looked back, but it helps having a Dan Carter in the mix). The idea is for the Boks to build penalty points until the last quarter through mistakes garnered by the pounding of the forwards and then let loose the runners in the final segment. That is classic Bok approach – always has been, always will be – it’s a disaster when we try to emulate the Antipodeans or the French.
With regard to your suggested team I would personally persist with JdeV – he had a non-game the last three but he still has ingredient X – and I think he has good rugby intelligence and man-management; personally, and in an ideal world, I’d get him back to inside centre (with Goosen at 10), get Jacques Fourie into outside centre and move Frans Steyn to fullback. He’s an excellent centre but has the potential to become a legend at fullback.
16 Sep 2012, 15:09 pm
@mshiniwami-160: i said the dane yesterday about Flo…i was worried about his speed to the ball but he allayed my doubts…
16 Sep 2012, 15:11 pm
@sparticus-51: A man who understands the game.Paragraph 2 resonates with me.Our,.s 12 13 taking
unneccesary flak because of him.
16 Sep 2012, 15:17 pm
francois steyn is becoming a crashball donkey in a bok jersey! instead of running at space he bloody lines up cruden who scrags him to the ground & bang the ball gets turned over!
dom execution over innovation kak…
two weekends in a row backline decision-making is poor & they butcher gimme tries. loubscher is not a backline coach’s backside
16 Sep 2012, 16:18 pm
@Jeraldjay-158: You fight Pitbulls with Pitbulls…..we got 2 really good ones in Brussow and F Louw….
I reckon we stick with 1 of them we always combatatve at the breakdown…..
If HM is prepared to learn, and adapt the game plan, we closer than what we think….
If the philosophy changes we already about 75% there, just a change of mindset and some personnel and we will be difficult to beat…..
It literally is up to HM now…
16 Sep 2012, 16:26 pm
Well, the Boks could’ve won that game if not for the kicking and a few individual errors (looking at your Greyling). Seems the “gameplan” was good enough to beat the ABs after all.
16 Sep 2012, 16:46 pm
STBUR the same moron that was dead keen to have Potgieter at 7 with Coetsee at 6 and Spies at 8.. the same MORON who reckons Heyneke Meyer knows WTF he’s actually doing !!
I see Jake the Fake now changed his tune.. in latest Sunday Times report he now after lambasting Mayer after the Argentina shambles .. or was it the last England test.. has NOW given HM the sage advice to stick to his guns and do what his gut tells him to do and NOT to listen to any critics or advisers..
The SAME JW idiot who couldn’t string 2 wins together through 2006-07 with ALL his superior rugby brains in tandem combined..
The SAME JW who went running to the opposition and lent on Eddy Jones broad shoulders when his were wimping into submission.
The problem with Heyneke Meyer is he learns SLOWLY.. he started off with ALL the WRONG ideas and selections and game plans but at least his ONE saving grace is he is perhaps SLOWLY willing to learn.. and that shows in that he has now DROPPED Potgieter and hopefully Spies forever.. and that he is CONTEMPLATING dropping Steyn from 10, and he has embraced Louw at open side instead of Coetsee.. so he is SLOWLY moving in the desired correct direction..
BUT is it FAST ENOUGH ??
He HAS to DROP Pienaar from 9.. that is a decision that set his plan retrograde by 180 degrees.. Hougaard HAS to STICK at 9 and play the in your face game that he relishes..
And Goosen HAS to play 10 with quick flat out distribution through back line and including a full back that can read and fulfill the decisive nature of a PRO ACTIVE game
Willie le Roux or Andries Coetsee though very Young are FAR better prospects at 15.. failing which Aplon will NEVER let any bok team down.
He needs another Hooker with Bismark out and that hookers name is Deon Fourie.. without any shadow of ANY doubt.
16 Sep 2012, 16:59 pm
Boks SHOULD have won that game.. NOT could have won it.. that AB game yesterday.. the same as the Aussie game last week and the Argentina game in Mendoza were EASY wins IF Meyer KNEW what works and WHICH players to play WHERE…
a FEW simple readjustments
EG:
Beast / Janse Van Rensburg at 1
Fourie at 2
Cilliers / M. Vd Merwe (FS TH) at 3
Elstadt / Alberts / Vd Merwe 4
Etzebeth / Bekker 5
Louw (vc) / Brussow 6
Alberts / Coetsee 7
Vermeulen / Coetsee 8
Hougaard / Pretorius 9
Goosen / Jantjies 10
Habana / Rhule / Aplon 11
F. Steyn / Serfontein 12
JdV (c) / De Jongh / Mapoe / Taute 13
JPP / Aplon / W. Le Roux 14
W. Le Roux / A. Coetsee / Lambie / Taute / F. Steyn / Aplon 15
perfect 30 man squad
16 Sep 2012, 17:07 pm
Sad thing is. Morne will probably play for the bulls this weekend and then his performance there and his familiarity with the Loftus stadium will be used as a justification for his inclusion for the game against the ausies. I don’t think the door is firmly shut on Morne to be honest.
16 Sep 2012, 17:11 pm
Mshini 160
alot of truth – tge bok pack were certainly alot better than previous 3 tests but that was to be expected with the best backrow picked so far. My point is we could and should be even better -there are some phenomenal tight 5 forwards in SA. You are right about the backline too.
As for meyer learning im not so sure he’s going to drop steyn or alter his gameplan – a loss to Australia at home could be the beginning of the end I reckon – everyone reckons we gonna do that – I don’t expect this team to do it even if goosen is changed – it’s still too tight and there’s no significant adv to boks. Pick Fourie asb tog.
16 Sep 2012, 17:28 pm
@puff-162:
actually thats a bladdy good side – where they get clint newland? buys, newland, engels (hooker), sykes, nell, pieterse – some great tight forwards there.
16 Sep 2012, 17:42 pm
Goosen and Lambie are fine, trouble is they won’t last long, a Test or two at the most
Jantjies will last forever, no doubt and the encouraging aspect is that the Boks unlike the Lions cannot be relegated!
16 Sep 2012, 18:05 pm
@fitz1ella-179:
Skop, this is what i’ve been saying for a while. Like him or not, we’re stuck with HM. And yes, he is making changes in certain areas too slowly like sticking with Morne and Kirchner and moving Hougaard out to wing where he is totally ineffective. And not that I wish injuries on anyone but Spies’s injury was a blessing in disguise.
He has now been forced to realise and ackowledge that the Blue Bulls blueprint for Bok rugby isn’t working. The Boks should’ve come away with 2 wins against Aus and NZ. We just blew our chances in both games. In test rugby you have to accurate otherewise the good teams will punish you.
I know people’s patience is wearing thin but I feel that there will be changes made at Loftus. And Morne doesn’t deserve to play on his homeground. And more hard calls may be on the cards. As much as i am a fan of his, JDV is coming to the end of the road and there a lot of young guns chasing that no.13 jersey. And then he should give the captaincy to Strauss.
I think we’re closer to turning this ship around.
16 Sep 2012, 18:27 pm
@I am a stormer-184:
Well put I guess some people are slow learners
Some people need to be clapped around the head a few times before the learn
His is now starting to realize this after been clapped by argies, aussies and now ABs
And we all know these games were winnable
16 Sep 2012, 18:34 pm
@CoachPete-185:
Unfortunately some people need to fall on their face before learning.
The next 2 home games now become must win games. I said before the tour that we should beat Australia twice. No question. With the AB’s taking the Dunedin test. But the AB’s proved to be just ordinary and still we couldn’t put them away.
I think HM will be having night sweats leading up to the next 2 home matches.
16 Sep 2012, 18:45 pm
@I am a stormer-186:
After seeing the 2 games and know we could have won them both I feel confident that (if HM selects the right players) we can win both
Oz are going to miss Genia and a few others
and ABs did not look that good yesterday, and clearly missed both SBW and Carter
We seem to have got rid of Spies and got a true # 8 now
We will have got rid of Greyling
We should have Goosen at 10 form here onwards
A motivated Bekker is better than Kruger
We can see what you can do now Flip so just stay at that level
Estabeth will be back
Add Fourie at 2 as well
HM has realized we need a fetcher Flow did very well
There is still always Brussow too
He must realize by now Potgieter is no f*^%king good
He must see after trying Pienaar he is not the solution
Hougaard needs to be at 9 with Goosen
Steyn is done surely he now sees that
Would love JF back at 13 and Jdv at 12
Habana doing just fine
Kirshner must go i am not sure lambie isi the option there
I would go with Taute if fit or Le roux
Add A Coetzee to the mix
16 Sep 2012, 18:47 pm
Strauss to captain would be the ULTIMATE coup de gras .. that will signify the absolute END of HM..
If HM makes Adriaan Strauss Bok captain then KISS any hope of ever saving the Bok from ultimate demise forever..
that will be the absolute straw that breaks HM’s frail back..
Bismark and Fourie are the ONLY 2 hookers in the country anywhere near to international class capacity
as for 9, 10, 15
Hougaard, Goosen, and anyone of Le Roux, Taute, Lambie, Coetsee, Aplon would be a massive improvement on the staid one dimensional garbage we are force fed each week.
I don’t know if HM really has the vision or the balls to do justice to this job.. and what you are seeing from JdV is a DIRECT reaction to him having to be the scapegoat buffer zone between a coach who is outright clueless and manages from knee jerk LACK of any visionary capacity and the general critics and public .. which is DIRECTLY affecting not only JdV’s game but also his entire personal buy in and mental endorsement of the current strained lack of credible coaching capacity or disposition
16 Sep 2012, 18:57 pm
Agree with a lot of what you say. Some very good points.
Besides, Morne and Kirchner, I’m beginning to have doubts over JDV at 13. Frans is his first choice 12 so I don’t see JDV being moved to 12.
And JF has effectively ruled himself out of test rugby for 2 years – and it remains to be seen whether he makes it back into the test fold. There are young guns such as Jordaan and even Taute who could play 13.
As much as people want to see Deon Fourie at 2, I don’t see it happening. Strauss is part of the leadership group should Heyneke decide to overlook JDV. Jean will probably be there for the next 2 matches. But the EOYT could be the time the youth get a chance to shine as well as a new captain being appointed.
16 Sep 2012, 19:04 pm
Bismarck is out for 8 months or so. Expect to see him again at the back end of Super Rugby.
As good a player as Deon Fourie is, he will have to improve his skills set when it comes to the lineouts. That skill is far from international class right now.
16 Sep 2012, 19:13 pm
@fitz1ella-188: Fourie???????? baaahaaahaaaaaahaaaaa!!!!!!
you chewing some dodgy biltong. or bokkoms in your case.
16 Sep 2012, 19:16 pm
yeah FOURIE .. the ONE and ONLY
Apart from Bismark which OTHER Hooker has enough true grit down and dirty mongrel to MIX it in the international arena from SA.. ANYONE.. WHICH ???
16 Sep 2012, 19:20 pm
@fitz1ella-192: as opposed to Fourie, who bears an uncanny resemblance to Tackleberry in the Police Academy movies?
Lets see….besides Strauss and Liebenberg who is above him (not that I particularly rate Liebeneberg), Chilli over any of them and Burden. Hell. I’d even take Barney back over Fourie!
16 Sep 2012, 19:25 pm
The same Fourie who covered himself in glory with the rest of his disgraceful, dirty team mates yesterday at Kings Park…
Far prefer Chiliboy or Burden… Even Schalk Brits a better option.
At least these guys can throw into the lineout… Not at the opposing flyhalf…
Naah, Fourie is a hookers a.rse, never mind an international hooker..
16 Sep 2012, 19:28 pm
Oh well ONE more dumb deluded non compos mentis excuse of a so called rugby fundi
No wonder our rugby is so STUCK in the doldrums of LAST century skop jag non conformity.. it DON’T have the mental capacity to EVER move and forge ahead in FORWARD direction.. ALWAYS stuck in the PAST.. ALWAYS behind the moment .. behind the advantage line.. behind what is happening right before ones eyues NOW..!!!
No WONDER we breed such THICK backward thinking morons as rugby coaches.. its NO WONDER we are STILL playing catch up to Aussie and AB’s when we SHOULD be head and shoulder reading them the RIOT ACT.. week IN and week OUT..!!
Fourie is the way to go for No.2 while Bismark is out and Chili next up.. maybe even Maku worth a shout .. not Strauss.. and Hougaard is the way to go at No. 9 and ANYONE amongst Le Roux, Coetsee, Taute, Aplon, Lambie for No.15 with Goosen and Jantjies the go to men at No. 10
You reckon HM will EVER wake up before its too late.. your guess is as good as mine.
16 Sep 2012, 19:30 pm
How bad was the on field leadership against the AB’s… Just when the Boks needed some composure in the last 20 and a leader to take the game by the scruff (Like McCaw did for the Kiwis chasing and kamikaze claiming the ball) and lead the men… There was none…
Nothing… No inspiration… No spark… No big tackle… no gathering the men behind the poles… Nothing.
JdV is not a great Bok Captain by any means or standards.
16 Sep 2012, 19:32 pm
lol – Tackleberry, cracking stuff.
He is by far and away the only international standard hooker in Sa – put him into Bok side and it will be like a shot of adrenalin straight into the heart.
16 Sep 2012, 19:39 pm
The big reason why SA is stuck in the doldrums is due to the big sway the “traditional North South powers” have in the SA game…
SA refs are lenient on the Bulls and STormers in S15 and CC (the first time yesterday this thuggery was caught out and punished properly in the CC) especially with their dumbfck “intimidation” tactics which are nothing more than flat track bully cheap shots…
The “Traditional North South Powers” are also the biggest enthusiasts and exponents for dumbfck 2 step mortar bomb rugby with NO TRIES…
All the mean time other franchises/provinces such as Griquas, Lions and Sharks are moving ahead and evolving a more complete game…
Yup, its the absolute short sighted insular view of the SA game of these “traditional powers”, their supporters, players and administrators that are fcking up SA rugby…
While other teams and nations are forging ahead, like Argentina and the ANZACS, the “Traditional North South” and their grandeurs of glory are sucking the hindtit of past glories…
16 Sep 2012, 19:41 pm
eish…kiwis why give Ted a hard time for helping the Argies?
“New Zealand loves to
catastrophise. I don’t know if that is a real verb, but it very well describes our country’s occasional need to present minor happenings as apocalyptic events. Richie’s
foot and Dan’s groin were both
harbingers of world’s end during the World Cup – ‘A nation holds its breath’. But New Zealand holds its breath so often, it is a wonder we are not permanently purple in the
face.”
16 Sep 2012, 19:45 pm
@Heavens Game-198: are you suggesting they also get a IRANZ schooled kiwi coach like you guppys did?
16 Sep 2012, 19:50 pm
@Heavens Game-196:
yes RM played very well and captained very well
He lead by example
But he does cheat sometimes too
16 Sep 2012, 19:52 pm
@CoachPete-201:
yep its our own fault, if we cant learn to cheat like the best of them, brussow is a far more talented fetcher, but he still has much crookery to learn from the greatest mccheat that ever lived..
16 Sep 2012, 19:53 pm
@Transformation-200: Sharks have a Sharks schooled coach who represented and lived, breathed, bled Sharks on field… He also was 7s Bok…
Now what the fck are you on about you snivelling devious, little Kiwi sycophant shitstirrer…?
16 Sep 2012, 19:54 pm
@CoachPete-201: He does cheat, but fark me he is a leader, something JdV IS NOT…
16 Sep 2012, 19:57 pm
@cab-202:
Yeah we have play the same way Get away with what we can (not in full view of ref and assistant ref)
We need to be smart
16 Sep 2012, 19:58 pm
@Heavens Game-204:
Who else ?
Move him closer to 10 and play him at 12
16 Sep 2012, 19:59 pm
@CoachPete-205:
good thinking Pete – i fear we may be too ‘honest’ tho. Poppa?
and they label poor johan roux for having a wee nibble on fitzy’s ear.
16 Sep 2012, 19:59 pm
@Heavens Game-204: yeah keegan can learn heaps from richie ito leadership…
16 Sep 2012, 19:59 pm
What ever happened to the good old fashion side step in Bok rugby…….
16 Sep 2012, 20:01 pm
@Jeraldjay-209:
vokmaarvoort? we still got it, unfortunately only alberts can carry it out.
16 Sep 2012, 20:02 pm
@Transformation-208:
Yeah thats and option but HM does not care for Daniels
Why ?
well because he is fast, can run with the backs, can off load ,
Covers well, defends well is a option in the lineout both winning and stealing ball, and has true rugby skills
Too much like a kiwi maybe, or too small ?
16 Sep 2012, 20:03 pm
@CoachPete-206: Get one of the forwards… Get a brand new Captain… JdV is no better 12 than Frans Steyn… Mad to even think so… and as a 13 on merit he is probably 6th in line after Ebersohn, De Jong, Jordaan, Whitehead, Mapoe in no particular order…
16 Sep 2012, 20:03 pm
@Jeraldjay-209:
Danie Gerber kept the secret
16 Sep 2012, 20:04 pm
@cab-207: what do the call it? ‘gamesmanship’
between richie & keiran read they’ve got the formula down pat…
that nathan sharpe is not far behind too…last week he was having a jol spoiling & making a nuisance of himself even jumping out of lineout lines to block jannie from lifting…
16 Sep 2012, 20:05 pm
@Heavens Game-212:
Well what HM did was select the captain before the selected the team
ABs have been lucky to have RM a fantastic player and a great captain, which has been a huge part of their success
16 Sep 2012, 20:06 pm
@Transformation-214:
too right, you named the big three mccrooks there, sharpe another master as was gregan.
but fitzy was the quintessential original, while McCheater has taken it to a different level – gdam he’s good (at cheating).
16 Sep 2012, 20:07 pm
@cab-210:
Cab in the past we had massive stapkar forwards but had sensational back sthat could run circles around any team.
Carel Dup, Danie Gerber, Dewet Ras…….
16 Sep 2012, 20:07 pm
@Transformation-208:
Maybe he’s to fast to the breakdown and will show up the rest of the bok forwards too often
16 Sep 2012, 20:08 pm
@Jeraldjay-209: goosen stepped just last week, hougaard is got a vicious one, de jongh can rip too…the other donkeys like lambie can’t jol…
jordaan has a pretty mean one too yho!
16 Sep 2012, 20:08 pm
@Transformation-208:
You poor dumbfuck Sharksworld “expert”… Keep taking potshots at all Sharkies on your shitstirring list…
Richie got taught well by his mate Barney… None in the same class internationally currently other than probably Dusautoir… Keegan only had one season vs how many years for McCaw? Nevertheless he led well yesterday in the rain and despite the other team going benzene moggy in “intimidation” stupidity, eh? Add the fact that he has been treated disgracefully by the Bok coach, and you realise he has character in bucketloads to perform the way he does week in and week out…
16 Sep 2012, 20:09 pm
@CoachPete-213: Lol.
16 Sep 2012, 20:09 pm
@Transformation-219:
Jordan has pace too
16 Sep 2012, 20:11 pm
@Heavens Game-220:
So we agree on Daniels i see
16 Sep 2012, 20:12 pm
@Transformation-219:
Transie you left out your main man Frans.
Saw a hint of a side step yesterday.
16 Sep 2012, 20:12 pm
@178.fitz1ella: LMFAO when an oak like you goes on such an uneducated Rampage its very difficult to take your seriously.
Jake the fake? is this the same oak who was so massivly succesful? won us the tri nations, the world cup? had a better winning record against NZ then any other SA coach? is that the same guy?
Seems we all flipping lucky you have no say in the actual Springbok makeup lol.
Ps you seem way to tense hey.. go knock one out in the loo if you aint getting it at home.
16 Sep 2012, 20:13 pm
@Jeraldjay-224:
The difference is Danie Gerber sidestepped at speed
Steyn does not
16 Sep 2012, 20:14 pm
@CoachPete-223: Definitely, if you agree that he is a tearaway flanker in the mould of Rob Louw, but more skilfull, more flair and heaps more ballas than the entire Bok pack…
Truly the Christian Cullen of Loosies
16 Sep 2012, 20:14 pm
@Heavens Game-220: you are getting to easy to reel in…
16 Sep 2012, 20:14 pm
@Jeraldjay-217:
yeah very true, HO de villiers, germishuys, gysie
even some playmakers at 10, rosenberg, cowley was good but no bok, apparetly there was another one and a few centers, whip? michael du plessis was the most creative centre i seen for boks, gerber the most penetrative.
16 Sep 2012, 20:16 pm
@wls1-225:
You must be new
You have not got the Skoppie ranting /rampage spell checker yet
When you do, a lot does make sense
16 Sep 2012, 20:17 pm
@Jeraldjay-224: hayi hayi hayi francois steyn? he is too dikgat & is a crashball merchant these days worse than jdv…
did u see him line up cruden only to be scragged & turned over?
he is playing like a robot nowadays…i didn’t se no step from him.
16 Sep 2012, 20:17 pm
@Transformation-228: Reel in? Farken its what you truly believe… That is the actual problem…
Farken devious little schmuck and then you act all righteous, judgemental and innocent.
16 Sep 2012, 20:18 pm
@cab-229:
remember HO’s try where he was getting ready to kick at goal but never told the ref, then tapped it and scored in the corner?
16 Sep 2012, 20:19 pm
Frans Steyn stepped his way up the touchline, he can still do it but it’s a lot slower than it was in 2007
16 Sep 2012, 20:19 pm
I’m out.
Looking forward to Keo’s Business Day article tomorrow with the headline….
“Meyer will make this generation the best”…….
16 Sep 2012, 20:20 pm
@CoachPete-233:
a little before my time, but the family all thought he was uitmintende uitstekende and all that.
bok backline of early 80s best thats ever been, tho maybe some ou balie remembers from way before that..
16 Sep 2012, 20:22 pm
De Jong has got a step second to no-one in world rugby, he’s scored tries which have left not only the ozzie S15 sides, but his own teammates heading torwards the corner flag when he’s stepped off one foot and gone the entire opposite way.
16 Sep 2012, 20:27 pm
@Big Hit-234: Nothing wrong with Frans Steyn as his two games playing for the Sharks in S15 demonstrated when his 10 actually kept the opposition guessing, took the ball up to the advantage line and actually understood his lines of running…
Not a 10 who farken takes the ball about 15m metres behind and telegraphs like a siren exactly what he is going to do and when to the opposition…
The most ridiculous move I ever saw at Test level was yesterday when M Steyn telegraphed a ball to F Steyn, giving him the ball about 5m behind him, and yet about 10m before the advantage line still – no deception, no angled running or laterals from M Steyn to possibly move the opposition 10/12 enabling a sudden straighten, change of direction… Nothing… And expecting Frans Steyn just to run straight into the opposition…
Ridiculous.
16 Sep 2012, 20:27 pm
@CoachPete-223:
I would accommodate Daniel in the line up even if it means moving Albert to lock.
The forwards were rudderless despite dominating the ABs physically,
Daniel had the quick brain and the leadership.
16 Sep 2012, 20:30 pm
@cab-237: Jordaan has a better step… off both feet… I reckon Mapoe too…
Naah, JdJ has been coached out of his natural good play by Stormers and their dumbfuck, no try rugby style. All in the name of accommodating JdV when he returned tail between legs from Munster…
16 Sep 2012, 20:32 pm
@Hondo-239:
I agree 100% and about Alberts too
We have Vermeulen now , and coetzee and then flow and brussow and kolisi and of course Daniels there
We can change albert to 7 if we need to in the game since we have
Bekker and Kruger Estebeth and Flip (played his heart out yesterday)
16 Sep 2012, 20:33 pm
@wls1-225: jake & “massively successful” in the same sentence?! not likely…
winning a world cup is not being “massively successful”
jake also gave us 49 -0 pastings…
16 Sep 2012, 20:34 pm
@Hondo-239:
We can also bring Alberts off the bench as an impact player which suits him
16 Sep 2012, 20:35 pm
I just hope that the minds of the Sharkies in the Boks are recoverable from all the brainwashing… Looks like Plum has got some hard work getting the chaps to farken run decent lines and actually offload in the tackle or pass the ball again.
16 Sep 2012, 20:37 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA1Ls8rg7l8
here’s some modern stuff, cant find the older stuff, **** we had plenty of vids, check out fleck at 2.42″, that bugger could take a gap, i think its also him at 0.40″ v ABs, yoh, regdeur.
16 Sep 2012, 20:37 pm
Plus we know the style we have been playing and the slow 9 and 10 who kick away good ball far to deep and down oppositions throat, you dont need a quick loosie like Daniels
Now if Hougaard was allowed to break at 9 and goosen head of running at 10
you need Daniels
16 Sep 2012, 20:38 pm
@Transformation-242: So a World Cup, a Junior World Cup, a Tri Nations Trophy and nearly getting a bunch of unknowns from ACT into the playoffs in his first season not successful?
Hmmm… Jake the Snake might have some character flaws but give him his due… He is not as bad a coach as you irrational haters make him out to be.
16 Sep 2012, 20:41 pm
2009 a very fine year, especially for the big hit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCeL-HZX9bI&feature=related
ka-pow.
16 Sep 2012, 20:42 pm
@CoachPete-241:
JdV is no captain and the forwards need the decision maker up front and in a real time
Strauss is a stand in, making him a captain will challenge Bissie when he comes back
Only draw back with Daniel is you can’t play him in tandem with Brussow, it’s either or in my opinion!
16 Sep 2012, 20:43 pm
This begs the question… what would Jake do with the current setup…
I can nearly guarantee you that Daniel would be in his squad, if not his run on side.
Actually, after the goddamn madness of Dippy the last 4 years and now the farken confusion of Heyneke, Jake is well and truly forgiven…
16 Sep 2012, 20:43 pm
lol, check out Ted reaction in the last few secs of that last clip
16 Sep 2012, 20:43 pm
@cab-229:
Cowley was a brilliant 10 who took the ball flat, as was Kirsten in the same period. Both sidelined by Gerald Bosch, although Kirstens injury against the B&IL finished his career.
I reckon Whipp was a more creative 12 than Michael, but Michael was more aggressive on attack. Different talents.
16 Sep 2012, 20:44 pm
@cab-245:
Thanks that was good
We still have players who can play like that
Just let them have the freedom to express themselves and not be restricted to a horrible game plan
16 Sep 2012, 20:46 pm
@David-252:
yes Cowley who was who pops reckoned was v good, but did he play for the Boks? Whipp was the other one they go on about. So michael more like fleck and whipp more like muir, tho muir was more his hands – snyman was naturally v athletic but not legendary centre instict. mannetjies roux a crashballer aka a mini-me version of pieter muller?
16 Sep 2012, 20:47 pm
Over and out for the night…
16 Sep 2012, 20:47 pm
@CoachPete-253:
very true Pete.
I did like that forward drive from Os tho, fkn hell, what happened to that.
16 Sep 2012, 20:48 pm
@wls1-225:
” had a better winning record against NZ then any other SA coach?” wrt Jake White.
Don’t think so.
PdV has a better record. 5 wins and 6 losses – 45.45%.
JW record is 3 wins and 6 losses =33.33% win ratio
Get your facts right at least when you have a go someone
16 Sep 2012, 20:49 pm
@Heavens Game-250:
Jake wouldn’t include Daniel on his past record of selecting loosies. Laurie Fischer might, though.
16 Sep 2012, 20:49 pm
@Heavens Game-255: @Heavens Game-255:
Cheers
@cab-256:
Os was special
I am trying to find some gerber clips
16 Sep 2012, 20:52 pm
ok watch this boys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHS10Kg9cHY
16 Sep 2012, 20:54 pm
In my opinion only 1 of F Louw or Brussow should start……they are out and out Pitbull fetchers…..
Daniel will probably be considered as a 8 man……as much as I rate him I would not utilise him as an opensider…
So Daniel is up against Vermeulen…..and if Daniel does play it means he woulfd need to partner F Louw at 7 and Alberts at 7….
I cant see HM considering a Brussow, Alberts , Daniel trio, he will kak himself about the lack of size…..
Not sure what the deal is with Kanko, but I believe Vermeulen will cement his place at 8 ….
I was helleva impressed with Flo yesterday, Bath must be quietly bitchin and moaning…..if I was HM i would keep him till end of Rugby Championships, he may be crucial on home leg…..especially if HM has not yet got over his Brussow fall out….
16 Sep 2012, 20:56 pm
@CoachPete-260:
LMAO – that is one helluva sidestep, about 6 in a row.
16 Sep 2012, 21:02 pm
@grant10-261:
I like your thinking there but as you say HM does not think that way.
Is there anyone out there that can tell me Daniels weakness?
Sure he gives up some penalties so does RM
Oh sorry yes he forgot to grow another 4 inches and add 20 kilos
16 Sep 2012, 21:02 pm
@cab-254:
Cowley played junior Boks or BaaBaas, if I remember correctly. Whip was more like Mauger or Mike Gibson. I still remember his tackle on Porta, when he drove him back 5 metres and we scored from the loose ball.
Michael was a maverick who created space for his 13 by posing a constant attacking threat and then offloading.
16 Sep 2012, 21:03 pm
@cab-262:
Was watching more of his tries
He was fantastic. pure class
16 Sep 2012, 21:04 pm
@David-264:
oh right – i didnt like mauger that much tho, bit like catt, i thought whip could take the gap too.?
16 Sep 2012, 21:05 pm
@David-264:
I was very fortunate as an under 14 center to be Peter Whipp’s “new boy ” gofer when at school and we used to sit at lunch and talk rugby and center play
He taught me a lot.
16 Sep 2012, 21:07 pm
@cab-266:
year Whipp used to accelerate through the gap (usually on outside) and then hand it to Johan Osterhuizen
16 Sep 2012, 21:08 pm
@grant10-261:
Flo is a totally different “fetcher” to Brussouw. He relies more on timing at the breakdown, rather than brute strength. In fact he’s the closest thing to HMs idea of a hybrid loosie.
16 Sep 2012, 21:11 pm
Horses for courses if I was HM…
Aussies….
Daniel / Kanko at 8
M Coetsee at 7
6 Brussow/ Flo
Kiwis
8 Vermeulen
7 Alberts
6 Brussow/ Flo….
I am more wary of Aussies than kiwis for home leg…
16 Sep 2012, 21:11 pm
@David-269:
Hey i would have both Brussow and Louw in squad
Maybe have Brussow or Louw and Daniels with vermeulen at 8?
16 Sep 2012, 21:11 pm
some these poor Morons still think Jake the fake White had a ‘superior’ win / loss ratio to NZ
How Goddamn idiotic MISINFORMED are these outright bloody IMBECILES??
here are JW’s ACTUAL win / loss ratio against top 5 nations through his tenure
AB’s
Played: 9
Wins: 3 - 33.3%
Losses: 6 - 66.7%
Wallabie
Played: 11
Wins: 6 - 54.5%
Losses: 5 - 45.5%
France
Played: 4
Wins: 1 - 25.0%
Losses: 2 - 50.0%
Draws: 1 - 25.0%
England Eoyt’s
Played: 3
Wins: 1 - 33.3%
Losses: 2 - 66.7%
Ireland Eoyt’s
Played: 2
Wins: 0 - 0%
Losses: 2 - 100.0%
Those JW’s REAL accredited win loss ratio credibility
WAY worse than 50% win / loss ratio against REAL competition
Apart from results vs Australia his win / loss ratio was Outright PUTRID in fact
16 Sep 2012, 21:11 pm
quite bizarre, but last night walking down the streets of London, who should I see – John Barnes, so I said are you John Barnes – he said yeah – nice bugger, best footballer of a generation.
16 Sep 2012, 21:12 pm
@grant10-270:
yes i forgot to add Coetzee
But keep Alberts on bench for 2nd half?
16 Sep 2012, 21:13 pm
@cab-273:
The Commentator and English 10?
16 Sep 2012, 21:14 pm
@CoachPete-274:
Plus Elstadt but HM cant see it?
16 Sep 2012, 21:14 pm
@CoachPete-268:
I still rate Whipp as one of our finest and most complete 12s, along with Michael, who was totally different in approach. Peter Cronje was also vastly underated.
16 Sep 2012, 21:15 pm
@CoachPete-275:
roundballer, used to play for liverpool, and yeah now commentates, was he 10 or 9 – bladdy talented.
16 Sep 2012, 21:16 pm
@David-277:
Imagine Whipp at 12 and Danie at 13 on same team
16 Sep 2012, 21:18 pm
@David-269: Yes….Flo is an exceptional talent….how the stormers lost him I dont know….he is actually a very competent lineout forward and also a strong carrier….imo a truly unique talent that could easily be leading the Boks as well…..Bath are fortunate to have him….
Brussow probably edges him pace wise though, and Brsussow has developed his game as well…..
The tragedy David is although we have these amazing Pitbulls we still have HM wanting to convert Marcelle……whi imo will never truly be a deck speciaislist….
That Fol gave the kiwis a torrid time yesterday at the breakdown…..and having Vermeulen and Bissy with him I really rate our chances against all comers….
The Bissy injury is a tragedy……
16 Sep 2012, 21:19 pm
@fitz1ella-272:
what kinda misinformed **** stats u putting up here?
he played england more than 3 times, offhand, i remember the 06 eoy tour we lost 2-1, we beat them twice in RWC 07 and cleansweeped at home in 05 wasnt it?
16 Sep 2012, 21:21 pm
@wls1-225:
Read and weep.
Coaches performances vs NZ after reintroduction. Only coaches with 5 or more games in charge against the All Blacks.
Mallet: Played 7, won 4, lose 3 = 57.14% win record
PdV: Played 11, won 5, lost 6 = 45.45% win record
JW: Played 9, won 3, lost 6 = 33.33% win record
Markgraaf: Played 5, won 1, lost 4 = 20% win record.
Streauli: Played 5, won 0, lost 5 = 0% win record
***
Christie: Played 1, won 1, lost 0 = 100% win record
McIntosh: Played 3, won 0, lost 2, draw 1 = 0% win record.
Care Dupl: Played 2, won 0, lost 2 =0% win record
Williams: Played 1, won 0, lost 1 = 0% win record
16 Sep 2012, 21:23 pm
This bok pack will take all comers….6 love
8 Vermeulen
7 Alberts
6 Flo/ Brussow
5 A Bekker [ fit and keen ]
4 Etsebeth
3 Jannie Dup
2 Bissy
1 Beast ….
with Guthro/ Coenie
Marcelle
Flo / Brussow
Flippie
On bench
Bring them kiwis…..
16 Sep 2012, 21:23 pm
@grant10-280:
What gets me we all talk about this we see this and many of us ask why ?
HM was prepared to persist with Spies and potgieter , and even Kanko had he been fit and then had Coetzee at 6 when he is a 7 and Daniels and Brussow not even in squad?
16 Sep 2012, 21:24 pm
@grant10-270:
Louw is just as effective at 7, as we saw when playing with Schalk.
@CoachPete-271:
Personally, I don’t agree with the “horses for courses” approach as a general rule. It’s a bit too much like being dictated to by the opposition.
16 Sep 2012, 21:25 pm
@grant10-283:
yes I like it
maybe Alberts on bench and Coetzee in at 7
16 Sep 2012, 21:25 pm
Beast / Janse Van Rensburg
Bismark / Fourie
Cilliers / JdP
Alberts / Elstadt / Vd Merwe
Etzebeth / Bekker / Kruger
Louw / Brussow
Alberts / Coetsee / Elstadt / Kruger
Vermeulen / Coetsee
Hougaard / Pienaar
Goosen / Jantjies
Habana / Rhule / Aplon
F. Steyn / JdJ
JdV / JdJ
JPP / Aplon
Le Roux / Lambie / F. Steyn
Home leg squad
16 Sep 2012, 21:27 pm
@CoachPete-279:
Yeah. Hell Whipp made the one dimensional policeman look like a world beater with his timing to put him through a gap.
16 Sep 2012, 21:28 pm
@David-285:
Exactly, but he would opt for Alberts or Coetzee at 7
16 Sep 2012, 21:30 pm
@cab-281:
That is JW’s Eoyt stats vs England
here are the full results
20 Nov 2004 South Africa v England 16-32 Twickenham, London A
18 Nov 2006 South Africa v England 21-23 Twickenham, London A
25 Nov 2006 South Africa v England 25-14 Twickenham, London A
Summary
Played: 3
Wins: 1 - 33.3%
Losses: 2 - 66.7%
all his other ‘wins’ against England were against watered down touring English teams at home.
16 Sep 2012, 21:31 pm
@CoachPete-284: HM is slowly but surely seeing the light….he has that cup of coffee with Mallet I reckon he will be sorted…
@David-285: That Flo at 7 worked because the Stormers played it the old fashioned way of left and right flanks….so the fetching duties were shared between schalk and Flo…..and as we saw then already Flo excelled at it far more than Schalk, who despite a lot of proteststion to the contrary was absolutely avarage at the fetching game.
The amount of times G Smith, P Waugh and Mc Caw caned Boks at the breakdown was due to Schalk being exposed whe he went head to head with the Pitbulls with J Smith and Spies, who could not assist him …..
Flo made Schalk look half decent at the breakdown…..I saw enough games at Newlands to work that out….
These days Schalk is a carrier only…..and if he comes back he should only be considered as a 7 imo…
16 Sep 2012, 21:31 pm
HM core Locks and loosies should be:
Daniels
vermeulen
Coetzee
Kolisi
Brussow
Louw
Alberts Loosie and lock
Bekker
Kruger
Plip (if he keeps playing like he did sat)
Estebeth
and even Elstadt
16 Sep 2012, 21:31 pm
@CoachPete-284:
Remember, HM is the guy who likes converting loosies to hookers. He probably saw Marel as a direct replacement for Schalk in playing style.
16 Sep 2012, 21:33 pm
@grant10-291:
I am not sure where Skalk will fit into the bok system again
I can t see Juan Smith playing bok rugby again either
16 Sep 2012, 21:33 pm
@fitz1ella-290:
oh so you only counting away (or EOY) tests in your statistical presentation of hoe?
bottomline, PdV and JW had very similar records, difference was PdV won a BIL tour and beat NZ twice away, whereas JW won a RWC.
16 Sep 2012, 21:35 pm
@David-293:
Well its sorting itself out in from of him
Flow did very well at 6
Brussow also there at 6 if needed
Coetzee is a 7 along with Alberts
Vermeulen is the future at 8, maybe with Daniels to back him up
16 Sep 2012, 21:36 pm
If you combined JW and PdV you probably be approaching the perfect coach.
JW was a tad too conservative and PdV was a tad too loyal. PdV had his selections spot on all the way up to 2011, which was a gdam disaster, otherwise he too wouldve walked away with the silverware, imo no-one wouldve stepped up to the energy of bismark, alberts or hougaard with the experience of the rest of the team = but we never got to see one of the greatest heavyweight clashes of a generation, cos of uiters stupidity when it mattered most.
16 Sep 2012, 21:37 pm
front
16 Sep 2012, 21:38 pm
@grant10-291:
I don’t agree. Shalk performed the classic tearaway/destroyer role of past opensiders whilst Flo came in as 2nd arriver to secure the ball.
16 Sep 2012, 21:40 pm
@fitz1ella-290:
2 wins at home and 2 in Paris in 2007.
16 Sep 2012, 21:41 pm
listening to mallet and mitchell in the studio has been bloody enthralling…..
16 Sep 2012, 21:43 pm
dont care what anyone says, the french played well in the RWC 2011 final, but they were never going to beat the ABs and neither were the aussies, the Boks however had the talent to match the ABs, and i reckon tho it is probably biased to say so, that the Boks would have beaten them – it was an outstanding team.
16 Sep 2012, 21:45 pm
Guys I feel optimistic
Just talking about the loosies and locks and the change at 9 and 10
With new centers like Ebershon , Jordan and Serfontein and wings like JJ, Le roux and A Coetzee and Full back like taute
and with Bismark back and some good prop selections
Add to that HM putting his stuborn pride aside, vary the game plan
We will have a great team
16 Sep 2012, 21:47 pm
Flo is the missing ingredient in the Boks loose trio..
Flo should have started the WC quarter final and burger should NEVER have been given the be all end all ball carry role
F. Louw is the correct candidate for Boks captain once JdV bows out..
I said almost 2 years ago that out of all the players currently in SA after the J. Smit era that F. Louw and Jean de Villiers were the 2 captaincy credible options as national leaders going forward.. and it should have happened PRIOR to the WC 2011 .. J. Smit was a liability and disruptive interference we could NOT afford.
Keegan Daniel is next in line behind them.
16 Sep 2012, 21:47 pm
@David-299: I watched every stormers game at newlands for years….still do….
Flo and schalk played left and right often…..
Before that there was a ‘ behind the scenes war ‘ with Luke and Schalk…..
Schalk wanted the 6 jersey , even though Luke was streets ahead of him at the time….
Ended up with Luke at 8…..playing amore to the ball role…..as schalk was never good enough in the opensider role….
Schalk had 2004…..
But after that the pitbulls destroyed him consistently……
Flo saved his hide a few times as he naturally played to the ball as well……
Schalk is many things….an opensider he is not….
Flo played left and right with Schalk…..
16 Sep 2012, 21:49 pm
PdV vs:
England
Played: 2
Won: 2
Lost: 0
Win percentage: 100%
France
Played: 2
Won: 1
Lost:1
Win percentage: 50%
Ireland
Played: 2
Won: 1
Lost: 1
Win percentage: 50%
Australia
Played: 12
Won: 4
Lost: 8
Win percentage: 33.3%
16 Sep 2012, 21:50 pm
@CoachPete-303:
I wouldn’t bet on HM changing his game plan to any great extent. What you’re suggesting is that we an succeed despite HM, because of the players.
16 Sep 2012, 21:50 pm
The most frustrating time for me was when stormers had JoeV N ….Luke and Schalk…..
and egos ruined it….
16 Sep 2012, 21:51 pm
@fitz1ella-304:
I wont disagree with that too much
So you would have ?
6. Louw (capt)
7 Daniels
8 Vermeulen
or
6 Louw
7. Coetzee
8. Daniels
or
6. Louw
7. Alberts
8 Daniels/ vermeulen
16 Sep 2012, 21:52 pm
@grant10-305:
you been speaking alot of sense, but luke watson was never ‘streets ahead’ of schalk burger. Watson was perhaps v unlucky not to be selected for Boks, but i dont think he was a fetcher in the brussow mode – watson was actually probably closer to mccaw. If we had a tight 5 that dominated like the ABs, then maybe, but i would pick Burger over him every time. When Burger was injured, then there probably was a case for Watson as Mallett pointed out, but Burger was IRB player of the year in 05 and was in phenomenal form.
16 Sep 2012, 21:53 pm
@nama1-300: I didn’t count home tests otherwise all those easy victories against Namibia and Welsh and Samoan and Italian and Scottish touring teams give the impression these coaches know what they doing
When we faced England in Paris 2007 WC they were NOT top 5 nations anymore they were ranked 7th behind AB’s, France, Aus, SA, Ireland, Argentina, England and then Wales.
16 Sep 2012, 21:53 pm
@David-307:
Yes I am. ultimately they play the game not the coach
Players just need to slip him is bi polor meds to calm him down
16 Sep 2012, 21:54 pm
@cab-310:
He played one game V Samoa
16 Sep 2012, 21:55 pm
My take on HM is that if he plays Goosen he will have to stop the skop en jag…..I cant see Goosen being effective playing that brand of cowardly rubbish….
It is not in Goosens DNA….he is a Cheetah….his natural instinct is heads up…..scan and look for space ….
Seen this kid enough to know we have something special…..fark maybe our very own Carter
16 Sep 2012, 21:57 pm
@CoachPete-313:
yes, but the whole thing was shrouded in controversy, he didnt want to play and so we didnt see what he could really do – but no ways was he streets ahead of burger as these guys like to suggest.
Burger in his prime was phenomenally good.
16 Sep 2012, 21:58 pm
@grant10-305:
I’m not arguing about the left/right roles, just how Flo operated. Smith, Waugh and Ritchie were both tackler and similtaneously the contester, whilst Schalk was the tackler and Flo the contester at the breakdown.
16 Sep 2012, 21:58 pm
There is no reason that Flo and Brussouw cannot be in the same run on team. Flo is a strong ball carrier but means that we’d rule the breakdown with Biz included. That means the game is half won already.
16 Sep 2012, 21:58 pm
@cab-310: In 2006 till about 2008 Luke was a brilliant fetcher….but you right, more like a mc caw than a Brussow….Luke is masquerading at 8 now…..posing and modelling sportsclothes….I want to see him get down and dirty like he used to…havent seen it yet….
As good as schalk has been, he has never impressed me as an opensider in the ‘ fetching ‘ sense….ever.
16 Sep 2012, 21:59 pm
@grant10-314:
I agree
HM will just have to embrace it
Just let s not have pienaars slow service.
Thats why we need Daniels to keep up with him
16 Sep 2012, 22:01 pm
@grant10-318:
i think thats probably right, altho i have seen burger fetch the odd ball, so not as inept as many make out, but no he didnt have the subtelty of watson, but not nearly as doff and one-dimensional as many on here suggest just because of his style of robust play.
16 Sep 2012, 22:01 pm
@garth-317:
We would rule the breakdown with Brussow and Biz, and even with Vermeulen if he was at 8, and if Daniels was 8 he is not to shabby at the break down
16 Sep 2012, 22:02 pm
@CoachPete-309:
Nope Daniel is best off bench not starting.. the ultimate loose forward sub .. but then so is Coetsee and Kolisi
Daniel is VERY much like a Luke Watson type operative when Watson was at his prime in 2005 / 06 only quite a bit faster but less combative and strong in the direct breakdown efficiency, but faster and big threat in open play and linking with backs.
I would always start Vermeulen at 8, to back up Vermeulen off bench would be one of Coetsee, Daniel or Kolisi
7 would be a horses for courses scenario.. if its brutal and tough then Alberts or Elstadt.. if its open and fast then Coetsee or Kolisi or perhaps Louw if Brussow starts at 6
Open side its a straight trade off between Brussow and Louw.. one to start , one off bench
Louw would be my next captain ahead of Daniel who is perhaps the only other candidate for captain now after Louw and JdV
Burger don’t make my team.. there is far too much better talent around than waste it to accommodate Burger who will never be the player he was back in 2004 – 2007
16 Sep 2012, 22:02 pm
@David-316: okay….sorry…misunderstood you a bit there….you are correct….Flo was a master after the initial tackle….
Yesterday he was tremendous….got pinged once after a classic steal, ref was wrong and to there credit the kiwi commentators were pretty vocal about the poor call…
16 Sep 2012, 22:04 pm
“Maybe i made a mistake”
Huge mistake douche bag
16 Sep 2012, 22:06 pm
yep Burger is now past it, but in his prime he was immense.
Still vital to Stormers who need a full squad system as was shown this year.
16 Sep 2012, 22:06 pm
@garth-317: fark….imagine those 3 pitbulls at the breakdown….kiwis will kak themselves boet….throw in Vermeulen who also gets down and dirty….
6 love…goodnight nurse …all over rover..
16 Sep 2012, 22:07 pm
@fitz1ella-322:
Yes makes sense for the 2 6 fetcher specialists Would there be place for to fetchers on bench?
And the 7s depending on ground and team
Possibly have Daniels and Alberts on bench too
Alberts to cover for lock as well as 7
16 Sep 2012, 22:08 pm
@cab-320: I believed the Brussow / schalk combo at 6 and 7 showed huge potential Cab….
16 Sep 2012, 22:10 pm
Ok boys very nice civil discussion I must say. Quite refreshing actually gentlemen
Cheer Skoppie , Grant, Cab, and David.
16 Sep 2012, 22:12 pm
Coenie Oostuizen led the fetching stats i believe, by quite some distance, so if thats your thing you could have him, bismarck, fourie and brussow and louw. Gotta watch the balance – The argies dont have a fetcher and they fking everyone up, hooper mccaw and all all – just plain old simply counter-rucking and hard strong forward play by the Pumas whove not conceed anything to the other teams thus far – great stuff – probably improve all our rugby too, was getting too loose.
16 Sep 2012, 22:12 pm
schalk knee is bad…wont play again this year……heard stormers after michael rhodes for depth next year
16 Sep 2012, 22:15 pm
@cab-330: Balance is essential Cab…agree with you…..
But its farken frustrating when HM sommer leaves all the fetchers out the squad….every 1 of them…..
Not even Brussow in a 40 man squad…
kILLED ME i TELL YOU….
16 Sep 2012, 22:15 pm
@CoachPete-312:
I reckon a lot will depend on whether HM sees the 9 or 10 as the backline decision maker. If it’s the 9 as he seems to prefer, then Goosen’s talent will be compromised.
16 Sep 2012, 22:15 pm
Brussow and Schalk was a flop at WC 2011
a Rassie styled flop
Brussow shouldn’t have started against Australia should have been Louw..
Brussow couldn’t protect Burger when Pocock dislodged the ball from his hands with his toe and Elsom crashed into him with Samo and Horwill scooping up the loose ball and easy against run of play try…
If it were Louw covering Burger at that critical moment don’t know if Aussie would have scored then..
Brussow is an out and out fetcher with a tough low center of gravity ball carry ability but Louw is a better hybrid for the heavy ball carry role.. better than Burger in most facets of either left or right flank in modern day rugby.
@CoachPete-329: so long coach.
16 Sep 2012, 22:16 pm
COENIE MAY PLAY NEXT WEEK AT 3 FOR CHEETAHS….WOULD BE PLEASING IF HE COMES THROUGH AT 3….WE LACK BRUTES THERE…AND THAT OKE IS HUGELY EFFECTIVE AT BEAKDOWN AS WELL
Fark…..sorry caps
16 Sep 2012, 22:17 pm
@CoachPete-329: cheers
16 Sep 2012, 22:18 pm
@grant10-332:
ja you are right, louw made a massive difference and brussow non-selection is plain simple crazy after what we’ve all seen him already do. if brussow plays badly and then u drop him, fine, but i mean the oke has a been a revelation for the Boks and now he’s right outa the entire squad ?!
16 Sep 2012, 22:19 pm
cheers all
outta here
16 Sep 2012, 22:19 pm
@CoachPete-329:
Night Pete
16 Sep 2012, 22:20 pm
Michael Rhodes a very good viable utility option for 7, and 2nd row much better than the Canadian or Tyrone Holmes.. shouldn’t have lost Quinn Roux who should have played against Sharks in the S14 semi.. that was outright STUPID of A Coetsee to switch Fourie from 2 to 6 and then to 8 when he had BOTH Armand AND Roux in his squad but used Fourie at 8 instead…
Would have whacked Sharks otherwise..
16 Sep 2012, 22:20 pm
yep toodle loo me off too, gdam aussies at loftus, what he gonna do.
16 Sep 2012, 22:21 pm
@cab-337: Criminal that by HM…..I threw the ducky right out the bath I tell you…
16 Sep 2012, 22:23 pm
@grant10-342:
LOL – i can imagine.
16 Sep 2012, 22:25 pm
I see your poor Oregon self styled independent thinker is STILL paranoid and sh’t scared to allow open debate on his censored site
what kind of closed minded cowardice pretends to champion open minded ‘independent’ thought but censors and manipulates every post or comment made?
16 Sep 2012, 22:27 pm
he’s a funny bugger that – i dunno why he doesnt let it go – u obviously pissed him off intensely.
16 Sep 2012, 22:32 pm
there’s a laidback surfer dude if ever there was one, i quite like him and big wise old T who talks **** about the walrusses and such-like – better be off.
16 Sep 2012, 22:38 pm
I thought I come rev him up a bit I haven’t been on there in maybe a year and I check it out today and they are STILL going flat out trying to discredit the values that actually put them all in the know as to where they think they are at now…
but each and every one of them are fighting with their own reactionary internal gremlins of trying to figure out what actually makes themselves tick
So I put some stuff out and he published a couple things but blocked the rest because it was getting FAR too close to the bone.. thing is I can’t even comment from my computer at home because he’s permanently blocked it so if I want him to open his mind to any idea then I gotta go and spend time and money from an alternate IP address.
Anyone putting themselves up as open minded free thinkers who censor and manipulate comments to suit their own agenda are seriously screwed up and tied up in their own form of self deception..
16 Sep 2012, 22:43 pm
Anyone who criticizes the Bok pack after Saturday’s display is purely biased. They were awesome. Except of course that bonehead from Pretoria who cost us the game.
Flo and Vermeulen were immense at the breakdowns and Alberts tackled the **** out of the AB’s.
Flip was outstanding in the loose, but I think that Kruger was a little out of his depth.
Beast was back to his old self and even Jannie’s defense around the fringes was superhuman. Just a pity he left it to said bonehead to defend there when Smith scored his try.
Strauss was everywhere and was leading that pack with distinction.
Problem, as has been said a gazillion times, lies with 9 and 10. The rest of the backline cannot be judged fairly if these two keep mucking it up. Maybe chucking Hougie out was premature – it is the gameplan that is making him look silly. Hougie and Goosen to combo when Pieterson is back.
16 Sep 2012, 22:48 pm
@GI POT-348:
There you go right ON the money..
And I was screaming BLUE bloody murder when they chucked Hougaard out of 9 and shoved Pienaar in instead..
turns out I was 100% right… Hougaard should have STAYED at 9 without ANY doubt… and play his NATURAL terrier style RUNNING quick distribution game…
FORGET the ou doos FdP up and under GARBAGE it has done us NO FAVORS in 3 years..
Go and CHECK the record books .. ALL those who STILL want to disagree..
16 Sep 2012, 22:55 pm
I think I know why JdV is playing poorly and feeling KAK generally most of the time in this goddamn poison chalice ‘caretakers’ role
If you read Keohanes twitter page he is saying FdP is being groomed for ok captaincy by Eoyt and is re structuring his *** deal
If that is the case then I don’t support HM whatsoever and I hope he sees his gat before the Eoyt even kicks off…
16 Sep 2012, 22:57 pm
*** = J.A.P.
16 Sep 2012, 23:13 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-28: you need to start thinking about beating Aus first and getting over your draw with Argie before you even consider the number one spot mate.
Boks last 3 games – draw, loss, loss – you cant tell me that deserves a ranking of number 2 let alone number 1, even if you do beat us in SA. Which I do not think you will – SA lacks a definitive game plan.
Most RWC teams re build after their victory – we too are doing this. Yep we have lost Thorne/Kaino/SBW/ and currently have our best 10 out. Thats 4 pretty key players – and we are still winning – not a bad effort at all.
As this current AB team play more, they will develop the right combinations and be better for it, so too will SA, but which team has the fitness, the mental strength and the belief is another thing.
16 Sep 2012, 23:15 pm
HG NIce win our team on SAT>Compare captains.One a demented thug==(Very good player though.)
One One who plays the game as a sport.
16 Sep 2012, 23:43 pm
@KiaKahaNZ-352: I’m a Bok supporter and will happily admit that they MIGHT be worth of the 4th spot. NZ, Australia and Wales are all ahead of us and possibly France as well.
16 Sep 2012, 23:46 pm
A bit late Meyer…………..duuurh.
How come the majority of the Bok rugby fraternity could see the problem but you could not???
The horse has bolted, the milk is spilt. We could have won again in Dunedin, but you Mr Dof coach blew it………….big time. Doos!
16 Sep 2012, 23:57 pm
If you read what Meyer actually said it becomes apparent that he had no intention of taking Morne off any earlier than he did:
“Frans Steyn is a great goal-kicker and Ruan Pienaar can kick as well. You don’t just take a guy off for his goal-kicking. But we could have changed the goal-kicker.”
So the only decision of his that he believes can be questioned is the decision not to pass the tee to Pienaar or the other Steyn – Morne was going nowhere. So we will most likely see Morne in the 10 jersey again in a couple of weeks.
And that is unbelievably dom. What the hell is he actually doing that we need him on the field exactly?
16 Sep 2012, 23:59 pm
With some tweeks to this side (read selecting the best players) we can improve and, I believe beat both Aus and NZ.
Crusty the clown at 15 must go………..Play Lambie or Taute or Gio
I’m sorry Jean but I really think your time is up, even Linel Mapoe would be a better bet………..Play JP if fit
Goosen at 10, Steyn to Vodacom cup
Pienaar gone………useless, play McCloud or Vermaark
Eben back to partner Becker, but give Becker a raaak up, kick his ar se and tell him to hit some rucks
Strause to captain
This side would have a much better chance at winning……………IMHO
17 Sep 2012, 00:09 am
I understand Meyers predicament – he wants to introduce Goosen to test rugby slowly (the way PdV should have), but the incumbent is frnkly wuite shocking right now.
so its a case of, if you are good enough, you are old enough. But HM should not make teh same mistake of not introducing Lambie or Elton to Bok rugby until Goose is sinjured. They must be given time to acclimatise with ten minutes every game as well. Frans steyn to 15, and Lambie or Elton to 12. JdV on the bench or 13.
Another thing – did you notice how, if teh AB’s forwards are not winning collisions or making ground by forward domination, they start offloading out wide. they match a big guy with a little guy out wide, and use their height and weight to go over the gainline and offload, creating a break. When our plan A is not working, we need to use a similar strategy.
17 Sep 2012, 00:20 am
Our Plan A last worked in 2009. Scrap it and come up with a plan B and a Plan C, any other plan other than the k uk one used at the moment.
17 Sep 2012, 00:39 am
@SjamBok-358:
Good post man, and this is where the old fashioned thinking of HM is being exposed, he barely has a Plan A, and definitely no plan B.
How can the Boks present a challenge without the right type of coaching to actually win games rather than reduce score lines? His lack of a dynamic attacking platform in favor of a defensive, then kick and hope style will never produce the right result
Take away Habanas moment of brilliance, and the Boks looked a bit static most of the game. Yeah you can say the same thing about Smiths try for the AB’s, but where we were developing ascendancy, the Boks opted for luck – you can only go so far on luck.
Whatever – I do not even think its the change of personnel you propose. Its the development of an attacking game plan, coupled with the right troops to do the right job and make all the right decisions out there. The AB’s have a key decision makers, there is an expectation and a plan to support that.
Having said that – the AB’s are playing some very bad rugby at present, the flow has gone, and the credit must be handed to Argie / SA /Aus for shutting us down and forcing us to push passes. We are not playing with patience.
17 Sep 2012, 01:37 am
Well at least Meyer has admitted the mistake and it is still early days, so fair play there.So the stuborness is not intrenched which is great to see.
But like one said above and something i said way back, why not give the other guys the kicking duties if you are having a bad day. What amaised me in the Oz game, and i have huge admiration for that is, Cooper places the tee looks at the kick, decides he is UNABLE to make the distance, tells Beal to have a go instead, and he was like” me..?” -pointing at himself. Takes the kick and puts it down the throat of the uprights. Are the Boks, (yes they are) so stupid, they cant make such brave decisions to admit, hey team comes first before me Im kicking like poo,you take it instead…One would think its pretty simple but they sure make it complex.
With this B team we are fielding, and I hope the black match was not a one off, we should start to realise that the depth we are going to have next yr is going to be amaising. If these dudes continue like this, imagine, Burger, Brusow, Smith, Louw, Alberts, Vermeulen,Coetzee as a line up. Pretty hard to beat i think.
Now we just need locks and a backline and we should be sorted…and…lol
17 Sep 2012, 01:50 am
That was tense & intense. At the game, it was hard to believe we won.
Boks tactics are 1 dimensional yes, but with a different goalkicker…
Scoreboard pressure does funny things, look at the RWC final. If weepu had kicked his goals it would have been 17-0 at halftime. The fact Morne & Franc missed all those meant the pressure never built on the ABs.
The gameplan is not fundamentally flawed, but without a 85%+ goalkicker it will not work against the top teams.
The sad thing is how dangerous the boks were when they played with width, Habanna overran that pass by 2m in the 1st 5 mins or it would have been 7 nil…
Richie is incredible. He was better then Read & Biz on saturday, he was possibly the difference between the teams.
Kiakaha Richie
17 Sep 2012, 02:06 am
@KiaKahaNZ-360:
The game plan would automatically change with Goosen at 10…………its actually quite simple
17 Sep 2012, 03:03 am
@whatever-363:
What plan?
The kicking plan or the other kicking plan?
Point is you can have Usain Bolt recieving the ball but if he has been instructed to kick it for territory when in own half….thats is whats going to happen.
Goosen does not make the plans.
17 Sep 2012, 03:37 am
@Hurricane-364:
Yes but Goosen is a running 10, just watch the Cheetahs games. I’m giving HM the benefit of the doubt here and assuming he would not instruct Goosen to sit in the pocket and kick………..I hope I’m not wrong!
17 Sep 2012, 04:11 am
@whatever-365:
You would think Meyer would allow Goosen to play whats in front of him when he sees an opportunity to run or take it to the line and look to pop a pass, yet I think under Meyer there will be a reliance on the kick even when the Bok have a talented first five like Goosen
17 Sep 2012, 04:19 am
@Te Rangatira-366:
Probably right to an extent Te Ranga, but each time Goosen has come on (allbeit for only short stints) I could see the difference. Running and jinking 100 times more than Steyn. They will still play the percentages but I just think it will change for the better.
Saturdays game gave me hope, cause it is glaringly obvious that if some changes are made we can win those games………..I think the AB’s are pretty much at their peak whereas the Boks will get better. They came close with a cr ap gameplan and a few cr ap selections……
17 Sep 2012, 04:24 am
and it should get better at home………………
17 Sep 2012, 05:13 am
@whatever-367:
Yep…the Bok start to look very dangerous with Goosen stepping and jinking around the place. I think you’re right about them still playing the percentages but Goosen brings a dynamic that Morne does not and with the right changes to the game plan you will win those games. As for the Abs they will look to shore up the mistakes at the breakdown for a starter and from there hopefully there is a flow on effect to rectifying other aspects of their game.
17 Sep 2012, 05:19 am
Whatever talk is cheap though buddy, we’ve won 14 straight you are a long long way off emulating that and you also need to cut out the filthy play.
17 Sep 2012, 05:25 am
@NZINCHINA-370:
Oh please go cry elsewhere, so the cheater copped one on the shnoz, build a bridge………
17 Sep 2012, 06:51 am
Like I said buddy talk is cheap and thats all you’ve got, if you condone players attacking players head when it happens to one of your players ill expect the same reaction then a pretty immature one.
17 Sep 2012, 07:38 am
@whatever-357: Yes agree, just need to select right and we will beat both Oz and Abs. Actually we would have beaten both right now, had we had the right flyhalf start. Most definitely too need another fb.
Have to admit Jean is not looking the part any longer. Jordaan, Mapoe or even JPP there, though prefer JPP on the wing.
17 Sep 2012, 08:16 am
@grant10-332:
@cab-337:
Brusouw never lost a game against the AB. MOTM awards in two of the 4 games played. HM is insisting that his penalty count is to high to include him in the team but he selects the 3 players with the highest penalty count in the super 15 play-offs in his squad (Coenie, Bismark and Alberts).
How many penalties did Brussouw really concede in a springbok jearsy and how many penalyies did he won?? Hoe many of these penalties were converted into points? How many turn-overs from Brussouw prevented the opposition from scoring tries when they were on our goal line?
Sorry guys: Brussouw 4 and Heyneke Meyer 0.
My looseforwards would be Brussouw, Flo and Alberts. Dwaine is a lock rather than a loose forward.
17 Sep 2012, 08:27 am
@whatever-363: he maybe a running 10, but HM is an up n under fortuitous gambler. The threat then becomes – what happens when it goes pear shaped out there against the counter attacking flair of the AB’s – was HM worried about that too?
I’m not sure Goosen is your panacea, it could make matters worse because all the other parts of the game bok plan lack inventiveness, creativity or flair. The one area they are strong is defense around the gain line – damn good effort on Sat night.
17 Sep 2012, 08:30 am
Steyn should have gone earlier, we all agree on that. But … and here is the rub, we have haemorrhaged a massive amount of experience and it is plain to see that HM has been trying to hang onto what little of it he has left. It has obviously not worked but it is a logical tactic.
17 Sep 2012, 08:31 am
By experience I mean spingbok test matches.
18 Sep 2012, 15:50 pm
PETITION AGAINST MORNE
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