Meyer admits Morne mistake
16 Sep 2012
Heyneke Meyer says he may have erred in keeping Morne Steyn on the field against the All Blacks in Dunedin.
Steyn, whose missed penalty kicks cost the Springboks wins against England in PE and Argentina in Mendoza, had a poor first half with the boot at the Otago Stadium and many expected him to be replaced by Johan Goosen at half-time. Meyer, though, kept faith in his No 10 and it proved costly as by the time he was subbed in the 59th minute he had been successful with just one attempt out of five.
‘Sitting here afterwards it is easy to make calls but it is a life and death situation for me and maybe I made the wrong call but Morne usually comes back and kicks well,’ Meyer told a news conference after the match. ‘Frans Steyn is a great goal-kicker and Ruan Pienaar can kick as well. You don’t just take a guy off for his goal-kicking.
‘I’ve always said that I am going to bring Johan Goosen through and give him game time. But Johan had struggled with his goal-kicking in training during the week and he is still only 20-years-old and he hasn’t played for almost three months. I thought he did superbly for the 25 minutes he was on the field.
‘But we could have changed the goal-kicker. We talked about it at half-time. I thought Morne would find his rhythm.’
378 Comments
Pages: « 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 » Show All
16 Sep 2012, 14:02 pm
Well I am still confident HM will get if right. Most SA coaches have had change foisted upon them. Divvy was relevant to choose Brussow and Morne, but when these changes were made unavoidable look what happened. We haven’t had a truly visionary and brave coach since Carel du Plessis and we sent him packing as soon as his plans started to yield fruit. HM is the tortoise in he tortoise and the hare story. Vasbyt manne.
16 Sep 2012, 14:02 pm
Imagine if Aplon played in place of Kirchner yesterday.
- He would be on par in terms of distance kicking.
- Defensively he would show more heart. Might even have prevented Aaron Smith’s try.
But he would definitely have scored that try in the 5th minute or gave a decent pass to Habana to score.
16 Sep 2012, 14:05 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-28: Even if you beat the kiwis, you still have to beat the Aussies
16 Sep 2012, 14:15 pm
All this pain and suffering will be worthwhile……if it means the end of M steyn…..
Farkit he has been a problem since 2010, along with Spies and Plod real thorns in the Bok side….
we getting closer to the promised land..
16 Sep 2012, 14:15 pm
wat n dumdoos , hm jy gaan jou gat sien sonder n spieel–.hier in sa is daar net 2 uitslae…wen en wen__jjyt dit nog nie eens reggekry om ons
at least n soort van idee te wys wat jou plan is nie, en die kompetisie is al halfpad…fkit man..kom reg!
16 Sep 2012, 14:23 pm
@grant10-154:
Ja, lol… Morne will probably sit out a few tests but I am not so sure that we have seen the last of Spies. Don’t be surprised if Heyecke still sees him as the bok captain to take the team into wc 2015.
16 Sep 2012, 14:25 pm
@Jeez-110: To me that suggests he’s going to take a look at Morne Steyn’s all-round game before taking the decision to drop him. Reading between the lines it seems that Meyer doesn’t rate Goosen’s goal-kicking.
16 Sep 2012, 14:28 pm
@grant10-154:
I agree Grant.
Its not all doom and gloom. We getting there. Could be alot easier but we making progress.
By the way, you been punting the fetcher role since your return to the site. I felt the hybrid role might be the future but Flo influence yesterday vindicated your point.
16 Sep 2012, 14:41 pm
ok so does this means Morne will still start and Goosen will get his game time increased by 5 minutes with each time… we are doomed.
As for Zane v Aplon – Aplon’s only crime is that he is a light weight which ironically is also his biggest strength and allows him to be such a threat on attack .
Please HM also have the balls to sub Jdv and bring on JdJ if the situations requires, to be honest Jdv has been awful and the only thing justifying his selection is that he has been given the captaincy which ironically is what kept Smit in the team ahead of Bismark for so long …hello the same issue Pdv had.
so far Pdv >>>> HM
16 Sep 2012, 14:42 pm
Yesterday the Bok forwards were immense,absolutely gargantuan and ATHLETIC and efficient. Flip vd Merwe had the best game of his career.Frans Louw finally stepped up,his previous performances namely 2010 Dunedin test and following week were below par.Yesterday at breakdown he was a nuisance.
BUT
Again this kick chase-execution of over innovation was fulcrum of team FAILURE.And Meyer persists with it….Idiotic
Ruan Pienaar continues to take long to clear ball from rucks and continues to kick WAYWARDLY with reckless abandon.Celtic Player of the year or whatever he shouldnt be in Bok setup.
Morne Steyn=NUFF SAID. He cant kick his goals,cant fix a defender,a orchestrate backline moves or control game.He is painfully woeful and has been for 18 months now.Enough
Dean Greyling: Disgrace.Period. 5 mins spent on field, 4 penalties,a dropped ball with line beckoning and 10 mins in bin.Worst ever performance in international rugby HISTORY.
And finally captain Jean De Villiers-adds no value.He is NOT a 13 and simply is a passenger.Is not international standard anymore.
Kirchner-does absolutely nothing and kicks away possession as well.Not international standard.
Bok pack I take my hat off to them,one of the best performances Ive ever seen especially with such a limited amount of caps.
16 Sep 2012, 14:48 pm
Home leg
1.Beast
2.Strauss
3.Du plessis
4.Flip vd Merwe
5.Bekker
6.Louw
7.Alberts
8.Vermuelen
9.Hougaard
10.Goosen
11.Aplon
12.Steyn
13.De Jongh
14.Habana
15.Lambie
16.Rallapelle 17.Coenie 18.Kruger 19.Brussow 20.Pienaar 21.Jantjies 22.Mvovo/Le Roux
16 Sep 2012, 14:49 pm
1. Jaco Engels
2. Hannes Franklin
3. Clint Newland
4. Stephen Sykes
5. Barend Pieterse
6. Mpho Mbiyoso
7. Wayne Van Heerden
8. Luke Watson
9. Falie Oelschig
10. George Whitehead
11. Jonghi Nokwe
12. Andries Strauss
13. Wayne Stevens
14. Michael Killian
15. Mzwandile Stick
16. Schalk Ferreira
17. Kevin Buys
18. David Bulbring
19. Darren Nell
20. Scott Mathie
21. Louis Strydom
22. Tiger Mangweni
Look formidable?
Currently, that’s the most likely Southern Kings 22 for Super Rugby next year.
Wayne Van Heerden and Barend Pieterse?
Didn’t they retire from the game a goooood few seasons ago? You may ask.
Tiger Mangweni?
Isn’t he, like, close to 40? You may ask.
Clint Newland? Isn’t he a New Zealander? What about developing local EC talent, as claimed? You may ask.
Schalk Ferreira? Didn’t he break his neck? Isn’t he too small and light for a prop anyway? You may ask.
16 Sep 2012, 14:50 pm
@fitz1ella-98:
Tend to agree – Pienaar is a good utility player and therefore can do bench; his scrumhalf play, particularly kicking was terrible on Saturday – contributed to our demise, in fact.
Thing is Pienaar used to be an excellent scrum half – it was his start-off position for the Sharks, I think – and he should have stayed there; but like Frans Steyn, he was shifted from pillar to post and has lost his rugby identity as a result.
At fullback he was a non-event and I have particular ire about that because Pieter de Villiers actually DROPPED Frans Steyn from FB to the bench for some contrived disciplinary reason (despite blinding performances against the Lions and AB’s/Wallabies in SA) – and he replaced him with Pienaar who simply did not exist in two Aussie games. With the Tri-Nations on the line PdeV reinstated Frans at FB against the AB’s and he responded with a technically faultless performance, which included THREE long-range conversions at sea-level with a wet ball in Test match conditions.
Frans would be best used at FB – although he is playing superbly at inside centre. As for Pienaar … he had his chance at FB and he blew it. Certainly he was not as good as his great father (Gysie) – but nevertheless, he is a great rugby talent which we have squandered.
16 Sep 2012, 14:50 pm
Louis Strydom? Why not just wheel out Louis Koen onto the field? You may ask.
Who’s George Whitehead?
Dare I say it?
16 Sep 2012, 14:51 pm
I don’t understand why Lambie is even in the squad. if he’s not match fit then he should have been at home getting match fit. By the time the aussies arrived in SA, he’d have had several games under his belt but instead he’s had, what, 15mins in the last month?
This super utility is almost unnecessary for the boks when JdV can play 12 and wing, FS can play 12-15, Hougie can play 9 and wing, and Pienaar at a stretch could play 10 but there’s a specialist on the bench anyway.
16 Sep 2012, 14:52 pm
@mshiniwami-161:
Who’s your captain?
16 Sep 2012, 14:57 pm
@puff-166:
pick the best team
THEN
pick your captain
fro those players,i would make Strauss captain
Till Burger returns or Juan Smith
16 Sep 2012, 14:58 pm
@mshiniwami-161: I think Etzebeth is back, does he make your side?
16 Sep 2012, 14:59 pm
Boks for EOYT:
1. Mtawarira, Steenkamp
2. Strauss, Ralepelle
3. Du Plessis, Oosthuizen
4. Etzebeth, Van Der Merwe
5. Bekker, Kruger
6. Brussow, Kolisi
7. Burger, Alberts
8. Vermeulen, Coetzee
9. Du Preez, Hougaard
10. Goosen, Jantjies
11. Habana, Basson
12. Steyn, De Jongh
13. De Villiers, Jordaan
14. Pieterson, Engelbrecht
15. Lambie, Taute
16 Sep 2012, 15:01 pm
@puff-169:
Not all my choices, just who I think Meyer will go with.
16 Sep 2012, 15:03 pm
@Big Hit-168:
Forgot about him,he would go on bench ahead of Kruger.
16 Sep 2012, 15:04 pm
@mshiniwami-160:
I must agree with your comments – especially the observation of Flip Van der Merew and Louw – they both (finally) raised their game to great heights and it was wonderful to see – so did Vermulen after his non-show against the Wallabies: magnificent performance. Bekker also showed up after being nullified in Mendoza.
In fairness the strategy they chose would have looked different had Morne kicked like Morne: in fact it absolutely relies on an accurate kicker and is identical to the All Blacks game when Grant Fox was putting them over (which they altered after France gave them a shake-up in ’93 and they discovered Lomu in ’95 – since then they haven’t looked back, but it helps having a Dan Carter in the mix). The idea is for the Boks to build penalty points until the last quarter through mistakes garnered by the pounding of the forwards and then let loose the runners in the final segment. That is classic Bok approach – always has been, always will be – it’s a disaster when we try to emulate the Antipodeans or the French.
With regard to your suggested team I would personally persist with JdeV – he had a non-game the last three but he still has ingredient X – and I think he has good rugby intelligence and man-management; personally, and in an ideal world, I’d get him back to inside centre (with Goosen at 10), get Jacques Fourie into outside centre and move Frans Steyn to fullback. He’s an excellent centre but has the potential to become a legend at fullback.
16 Sep 2012, 15:09 pm
@mshiniwami-160: i said the dane yesterday about Flo…i was worried about his speed to the ball but he allayed my doubts…
16 Sep 2012, 15:11 pm
@sparticus-51: A man who understands the game.Paragraph 2 resonates with me.Our,.s 12 13 taking
unneccesary flak because of him.
16 Sep 2012, 15:17 pm
francois steyn is becoming a crashball donkey in a bok jersey! instead of running at space he bloody lines up cruden who scrags him to the ground & bang the ball gets turned over!
dom execution over innovation kak…
two weekends in a row backline decision-making is poor & they butcher gimme tries. loubscher is not a backline coach’s backside
16 Sep 2012, 16:18 pm
@Jeraldjay-158: You fight Pitbulls with Pitbulls…..we got 2 really good ones in Brussow and F Louw….
I reckon we stick with 1 of them we always combatatve at the breakdown…..
If HM is prepared to learn, and adapt the game plan, we closer than what we think….
If the philosophy changes we already about 75% there, just a change of mindset and some personnel and we will be difficult to beat…..
It literally is up to HM now…
16 Sep 2012, 16:26 pm
Well, the Boks could’ve won that game if not for the kicking and a few individual errors (looking at your Greyling). Seems the “gameplan” was good enough to beat the ABs after all.
16 Sep 2012, 16:46 pm
STBUR the same moron that was dead keen to have Potgieter at 7 with Coetsee at 6 and Spies at 8.. the same MORON who reckons Heyneke Meyer knows WTF he’s actually doing !!
I see Jake the Fake now changed his tune.. in latest Sunday Times report he now after lambasting Mayer after the Argentina shambles .. or was it the last England test.. has NOW given HM the sage advice to stick to his guns and do what his gut tells him to do and NOT to listen to any critics or advisers..
The SAME JW idiot who couldn’t string 2 wins together through 2006-07 with ALL his superior rugby brains in tandem combined..
The SAME JW who went running to the opposition and lent on Eddy Jones broad shoulders when his were wimping into submission.
The problem with Heyneke Meyer is he learns SLOWLY.. he started off with ALL the WRONG ideas and selections and game plans but at least his ONE saving grace is he is perhaps SLOWLY willing to learn.. and that shows in that he has now DROPPED Potgieter and hopefully Spies forever.. and that he is CONTEMPLATING dropping Steyn from 10, and he has embraced Louw at open side instead of Coetsee.. so he is SLOWLY moving in the desired correct direction..
BUT is it FAST ENOUGH ??
He HAS to DROP Pienaar from 9.. that is a decision that set his plan retrograde by 180 degrees.. Hougaard HAS to STICK at 9 and play the in your face game that he relishes..
And Goosen HAS to play 10 with quick flat out distribution through back line and including a full back that can read and fulfill the decisive nature of a PRO ACTIVE game
Willie le Roux or Andries Coetsee though very Young are FAR better prospects at 15.. failing which Aplon will NEVER let any bok team down.
He needs another Hooker with Bismark out and that hookers name is Deon Fourie.. without any shadow of ANY doubt.
16 Sep 2012, 16:59 pm
Boks SHOULD have won that game.. NOT could have won it.. that AB game yesterday.. the same as the Aussie game last week and the Argentina game in Mendoza were EASY wins IF Meyer KNEW what works and WHICH players to play WHERE…
a FEW simple readjustments
EG:
Beast / Janse Van Rensburg at 1
Fourie at 2
Cilliers / M. Vd Merwe (FS TH) at 3
Elstadt / Alberts / Vd Merwe 4
Etzebeth / Bekker 5
Louw (vc) / Brussow 6
Alberts / Coetsee 7
Vermeulen / Coetsee 8
Hougaard / Pretorius 9
Goosen / Jantjies 10
Habana / Rhule / Aplon 11
F. Steyn / Serfontein 12
JdV (c) / De Jongh / Mapoe / Taute 13
JPP / Aplon / W. Le Roux 14
W. Le Roux / A. Coetsee / Lambie / Taute / F. Steyn / Aplon 15
perfect 30 man squad
16 Sep 2012, 17:07 pm
Sad thing is. Morne will probably play for the bulls this weekend and then his performance there and his familiarity with the Loftus stadium will be used as a justification for his inclusion for the game against the ausies. I don’t think the door is firmly shut on Morne to be honest.
16 Sep 2012, 17:11 pm
Mshini 160
alot of truth – tge bok pack were certainly alot better than previous 3 tests but that was to be expected with the best backrow picked so far. My point is we could and should be even better -there are some phenomenal tight 5 forwards in SA. You are right about the backline too.
As for meyer learning im not so sure he’s going to drop steyn or alter his gameplan – a loss to Australia at home could be the beginning of the end I reckon – everyone reckons we gonna do that – I don’t expect this team to do it even if goosen is changed – it’s still too tight and there’s no significant adv to boks. Pick Fourie asb tog.
16 Sep 2012, 17:28 pm
@puff-162:
actually thats a bladdy good side – where they get clint newland? buys, newland, engels (hooker), sykes, nell, pieterse – some great tight forwards there.
16 Sep 2012, 17:42 pm
Goosen and Lambie are fine, trouble is they won’t last long, a Test or two at the most
Jantjies will last forever, no doubt and the encouraging aspect is that the Boks unlike the Lions cannot be relegated!
16 Sep 2012, 18:05 pm
@fitz1ella-179:
Skop, this is what i’ve been saying for a while. Like him or not, we’re stuck with HM. And yes, he is making changes in certain areas too slowly like sticking with Morne and Kirchner and moving Hougaard out to wing where he is totally ineffective. And not that I wish injuries on anyone but Spies’s injury was a blessing in disguise.
He has now been forced to realise and ackowledge that the Blue Bulls blueprint for Bok rugby isn’t working. The Boks should’ve come away with 2 wins against Aus and NZ. We just blew our chances in both games. In test rugby you have to accurate otherewise the good teams will punish you.
I know people’s patience is wearing thin but I feel that there will be changes made at Loftus. And Morne doesn’t deserve to play on his homeground. And more hard calls may be on the cards. As much as i am a fan of his, JDV is coming to the end of the road and there a lot of young guns chasing that no.13 jersey. And then he should give the captaincy to Strauss.
I think we’re closer to turning this ship around.
16 Sep 2012, 18:27 pm
@I am a stormer-184:
Well put I guess some people are slow learners
Some people need to be clapped around the head a few times before the learn
His is now starting to realize this after been clapped by argies, aussies and now ABs
And we all know these games were winnable
16 Sep 2012, 18:34 pm
@CoachPete-185:
Unfortunately some people need to fall on their face before learning.
The next 2 home games now become must win games. I said before the tour that we should beat Australia twice. No question. With the AB’s taking the Dunedin test. But the AB’s proved to be just ordinary and still we couldn’t put them away.
I think HM will be having night sweats leading up to the next 2 home matches.
16 Sep 2012, 18:45 pm
@I am a stormer-186:
After seeing the 2 games and know we could have won them both I feel confident that (if HM selects the right players) we can win both
Oz are going to miss Genia and a few others
and ABs did not look that good yesterday, and clearly missed both SBW and Carter
We seem to have got rid of Spies and got a true # 8 now
We will have got rid of Greyling
We should have Goosen at 10 form here onwards
A motivated Bekker is better than Kruger
We can see what you can do now Flip so just stay at that level
Estabeth will be back
Add Fourie at 2 as well
HM has realized we need a fetcher Flow did very well
There is still always Brussow too
He must realize by now Potgieter is no f*^%king good
He must see after trying Pienaar he is not the solution
Hougaard needs to be at 9 with Goosen
Steyn is done surely he now sees that
Would love JF back at 13 and Jdv at 12
Habana doing just fine
Kirshner must go i am not sure lambie isi the option there
I would go with Taute if fit or Le roux
Add A Coetzee to the mix
16 Sep 2012, 18:47 pm
Strauss to captain would be the ULTIMATE coup de gras .. that will signify the absolute END of HM..
If HM makes Adriaan Strauss Bok captain then KISS any hope of ever saving the Bok from ultimate demise forever..
that will be the absolute straw that breaks HM’s frail back..
Bismark and Fourie are the ONLY 2 hookers in the country anywhere near to international class capacity
as for 9, 10, 15
Hougaard, Goosen, and anyone of Le Roux, Taute, Lambie, Coetsee, Aplon would be a massive improvement on the staid one dimensional garbage we are force fed each week.
I don’t know if HM really has the vision or the balls to do justice to this job.. and what you are seeing from JdV is a DIRECT reaction to him having to be the scapegoat buffer zone between a coach who is outright clueless and manages from knee jerk LACK of any visionary capacity and the general critics and public .. which is DIRECTLY affecting not only JdV’s game but also his entire personal buy in and mental endorsement of the current strained lack of credible coaching capacity or disposition
16 Sep 2012, 18:57 pm
Agree with a lot of what you say. Some very good points.
Besides, Morne and Kirchner, I’m beginning to have doubts over JDV at 13. Frans is his first choice 12 so I don’t see JDV being moved to 12.
And JF has effectively ruled himself out of test rugby for 2 years – and it remains to be seen whether he makes it back into the test fold. There are young guns such as Jordaan and even Taute who could play 13.
As much as people want to see Deon Fourie at 2, I don’t see it happening. Strauss is part of the leadership group should Heyneke decide to overlook JDV. Jean will probably be there for the next 2 matches. But the EOYT could be the time the youth get a chance to shine as well as a new captain being appointed.
16 Sep 2012, 19:04 pm
Bismarck is out for 8 months or so. Expect to see him again at the back end of Super Rugby.
As good a player as Deon Fourie is, he will have to improve his skills set when it comes to the lineouts. That skill is far from international class right now.
16 Sep 2012, 19:13 pm
@fitz1ella-188: Fourie???????? baaahaaahaaaaaahaaaaa!!!!!!
you chewing some dodgy biltong. or bokkoms in your case.
16 Sep 2012, 19:16 pm
yeah FOURIE .. the ONE and ONLY
Apart from Bismark which OTHER Hooker has enough true grit down and dirty mongrel to MIX it in the international arena from SA.. ANYONE.. WHICH ???
16 Sep 2012, 19:20 pm
@fitz1ella-192: as opposed to Fourie, who bears an uncanny resemblance to Tackleberry in the Police Academy movies?
Lets see….besides Strauss and Liebenberg who is above him (not that I particularly rate Liebeneberg), Chilli over any of them and Burden. Hell. I’d even take Barney back over Fourie!
16 Sep 2012, 19:25 pm
The same Fourie who covered himself in glory with the rest of his disgraceful, dirty team mates yesterday at Kings Park…
Far prefer Chiliboy or Burden… Even Schalk Brits a better option.
At least these guys can throw into the lineout… Not at the opposing flyhalf…
Naah, Fourie is a hookers a.rse, never mind an international hooker..
16 Sep 2012, 19:28 pm
Oh well ONE more dumb deluded non compos mentis excuse of a so called rugby fundi
No wonder our rugby is so STUCK in the doldrums of LAST century skop jag non conformity.. it DON’T have the mental capacity to EVER move and forge ahead in FORWARD direction.. ALWAYS stuck in the PAST.. ALWAYS behind the moment .. behind the advantage line.. behind what is happening right before ones eyues NOW..!!!
No WONDER we breed such THICK backward thinking morons as rugby coaches.. its NO WONDER we are STILL playing catch up to Aussie and AB’s when we SHOULD be head and shoulder reading them the RIOT ACT.. week IN and week OUT..!!
Fourie is the way to go for No.2 while Bismark is out and Chili next up.. maybe even Maku worth a shout .. not Strauss.. and Hougaard is the way to go at No. 9 and ANYONE amongst Le Roux, Coetsee, Taute, Aplon, Lambie for No.15 with Goosen and Jantjies the go to men at No. 10
You reckon HM will EVER wake up before its too late.. your guess is as good as mine.
16 Sep 2012, 19:30 pm
How bad was the on field leadership against the AB’s… Just when the Boks needed some composure in the last 20 and a leader to take the game by the scruff (Like McCaw did for the Kiwis chasing and kamikaze claiming the ball) and lead the men… There was none…
Nothing… No inspiration… No spark… No big tackle… no gathering the men behind the poles… Nothing.
JdV is not a great Bok Captain by any means or standards.
16 Sep 2012, 19:32 pm
lol – Tackleberry, cracking stuff.
He is by far and away the only international standard hooker in Sa – put him into Bok side and it will be like a shot of adrenalin straight into the heart.
16 Sep 2012, 19:39 pm
The big reason why SA is stuck in the doldrums is due to the big sway the “traditional North South powers” have in the SA game…
SA refs are lenient on the Bulls and STormers in S15 and CC (the first time yesterday this thuggery was caught out and punished properly in the CC) especially with their dumbfck “intimidation” tactics which are nothing more than flat track bully cheap shots…
The “Traditional North South Powers” are also the biggest enthusiasts and exponents for dumbfck 2 step mortar bomb rugby with NO TRIES…
All the mean time other franchises/provinces such as Griquas, Lions and Sharks are moving ahead and evolving a more complete game…
Yup, its the absolute short sighted insular view of the SA game of these “traditional powers”, their supporters, players and administrators that are fcking up SA rugby…
While other teams and nations are forging ahead, like Argentina and the ANZACS, the “Traditional North South” and their grandeurs of glory are sucking the hindtit of past glories…
16 Sep 2012, 19:41 pm
eish…kiwis why give Ted a hard time for helping the Argies?
“New Zealand loves to
catastrophise. I don’t know if that is a real verb, but it very well describes our country’s occasional need to present minor happenings as apocalyptic events. Richie’s
foot and Dan’s groin were both
harbingers of world’s end during the World Cup – ‘A nation holds its breath’. But New Zealand holds its breath so often, it is a wonder we are not permanently purple in the
face.”
16 Sep 2012, 19:45 pm
@Heavens Game-198: are you suggesting they also get a IRANZ schooled kiwi coach like you guppys did?
Pages: « 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 » Show All
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.