Don’t kill a potentially golden Goose
17 Sep 2012
RYAN VREDE writes Johan Goosen is the brightest Test flyhalf prospect to emerge since Henry Honiball but he is still raw and must be judged accordingly.
I don’t share the same certainty about Johan Goosen that many others seem to. I simply haven’t seen enough of him at Test level to make such an absolute judgement. I have, however, been impressed with his cameos against Australia and New Zealand in the last fortnight and sense that he is a special player.
I wrote last week that I didn’t agree with Meyer’s faith in Morne Steyn, faith later proven to be misplaced as Steyn capitulated under the pressure to save his Test career in Dunedin. Yet I understood Meyer’s reservations about starting Goosen off the back of a lengthy injury and against the world champions in their back yard.
Now there can be no reason offered for Steyn’s retention that will satisfy sufficiently. Goosen must start in the remaining fixtures.
As South Africans our desperation to see a flyhalf that inspires has peaked. Honiball set an imposing standard, particularly during the Springboks’ period of dominance in the late 1990s. A punishing defender and an attacker with a broad repertoire, Honiball has for years been the benchmark for South African 10s. But we’ve expected a ready-made Honiball, this when the man was himself refined in the Test cauldron. Time was that refiner and time will be so for Goosen.
We must resist the poisonous habit of dismissing the aptitude of our best young talent if they struggle in their formative period. Test rugby is result-driven, of course, but the potential of some players demands our patience, with a view to a long term gain from them. Goosen is undoubtedly one such player.
He may well make the transition from Super Rugby to Tests with the ease that, say, Frans Steyn did. His temperament appears to be excellent, which is vital to success, while he has good all-round technique and an X-factor.
But he may not enjoy as comfortable a start as Steyn did. Furthermore, his success is not entirely in his control (much depends on the platform he is serviced with). He may struggle to meet the unique demands of the game and may yet be adversely affected by the pressure and expectation associated with steering the Springboks’ ship.
If we agree with the premise that Goosen shows immense promise, then it is important that we temper our expectations of him. I’m not suggesting that we tolerate mediocrity, only that we show an appreciation for the growing pains that accompany his elevation into the most high pressure position in the game.
Follow Ryan on Twitter
Follow SA Rugby magazine on Twitter
160 Comments
17 Sep 2012, 06:13 am
Talented dragon with or without the ‘roids
17 Sep 2012, 06:14 am
cynical much?
17 Sep 2012, 06:15 am
as for frans steyn, apart from his booming boot i don’t see any development/change in his game from when he was 19 to now. Just fatter and slower
17 Sep 2012, 06:19 am
and from what i’ve seen of goosen he can boot it just as far as steyn, which will significantly reduce fransie’s stock value. that being said we have no better options at 12 and it’s not his fault that years of bok coaching has watered down his once swivelling sidestepping self into a beefy crash ball merchant minus an offload
17 Sep 2012, 06:20 am
Bright young prospects need to be eased into the test scene on the End of Year Tour, and particularly against the less-fancied easybeaty opponents like Italy and Scotland, when the old men are all tired and worn out and therefore can be spared to do the business only against the tougher opponents like France and England.
17 Sep 2012, 06:39 am
Goosen v Carter at Soccer City……bring it on.
17 Sep 2012, 06:44 am
@TheTackler-5: Nah its time to bring him in, when the incumbent is so cr*p and has been since 2010 there is no reasonable argument not to … The bok tactics may just be expounded as well with a better player.
HM and the boks need to skill up – 9/FH, 10/Goose 13/JdJ/jFourie and 15/Taute .. they have the potential players. We need to beg back JFourie .. just not sure what to do with JdV who is looking so tired and old .. and the captaincy issue ..
17 Sep 2012, 06:46 am
@Te Rangatira-6: Good point, I think the AB forwards will have to front better first though, I know the Boks have Coonie, Chilli, Eben and Brussow lining up … What happened to Kaino ? You chaps are missing him ..
17 Sep 2012, 06:58 am
I dont know why I keep reading all the panic over the ABs performance. They were outplayed in the forwards, credit where credit is due. But in the end, the All Blacks won the game and that’s all that counts. South Africa still looked clueless with ball in hand and kicked away everything they got. Goosen looks a good player but will he be able to get anything out of JDV and FS?
The All Blacks will be a different beast the next time these teams play. They will front up for sure and we all know they’ve yet to put together an 80 min performance
17 Sep 2012, 07:16 am
Doughnut forwards will have to front better, please they weathered the storm from a desperate Bokke side and won by 10 points, the AB forwards front week in week out they are 14 straight now, way too much overconfidence from Bokke fans after a 10 point loss.
17 Sep 2012, 07:22 am
The Ab’s can’t get any better, have peaked blah blah blah, the Bokke can get 50% better we should have won blah blah blah i’m guessing we are going to read that a couple of million times on KEO before Soccer City, talk is cheap.
17 Sep 2012, 07:23 am
disgusting kiwis.
blegh.
17 Sep 2012, 07:24 am
c’mon china. when aren’t they overconfident?
remember 2009?
new world order and ABs are on a decline that they would never recover from? fark me, none recognize that in 2009 they won two tests with the Duck at f1st five, Ross locking etc.
it’s always an AB A team when they beat them, when they lose it’s a Bok B team.
17 Sep 2012, 07:26 am
Hey Bakkies you’d be happy with two weeks for Greyling its set the precedent you can attack the head with flying elbows and miss one match, you must be so proud as you are the champion of fair play.
17 Sep 2012, 07:26 am
and one expat arsecreep
ugh
17 Sep 2012, 07:28 am
Pops they now have a 10 who can kick and run I can see why they are so confident he he we’ll take the RC and them in Soweto they must watch their filthy play though thats two suspensions in two weeks.
17 Sep 2012, 07:29 am
Goosen vs Carter – it would be epic .
Goosen looks fearless and is not scared to have a go.
Did anyone else see in 2nd half when Morne got the ball behind the half way line , he faked a kick beat the defender and had a clear path to the 22 meter line.
He then took two steps forward as if to have a run but then checked himself and proceeded to hoof the ball as high as he possibly could … how low on confidence can one be.
17 Sep 2012, 07:32 am
@NZINCHINA-14: Should have given him 6 months!! Not for the incident on RMc but his poor contribution to the game. You AB supporters can whine and dine here as much as you like. Your forwards were bullied. Unfortunately that is where it stopped.
17 Sep 2012, 07:35 am
And in Breaking News from the Springbok dressingroom: Morne Steyn kicked the wall in frustration but missed!
17 Sep 2012, 07:37 am
@NZINCHINA-14: Ask KM He is good with this stuff. Or for that matter,Sonny,Big Brad,Owen Frsnks, the Whitelocks for eye gouging etc,etc
17 Sep 2012, 07:38 am
Opti if you condone that type of play fine, when Owen Franks breaks Goosen jaw you’ll be happy for him to miss just one game. The AB fowards won us the match by 10 end of story, dont get too overconfident mate you’ve done nothing yet.
17 Sep 2012, 07:38 am
@flanka-4: Imo he is a quality 12 but in the context of Meyer’s kicking gameplan, the biggest boot of them all Frans Steyn should play at full-back.
17 Sep 2012, 07:38 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-12:
Houston, don’t feel that way…..I thought you reserve your venom for the Abs,Crusaders,Chiefs etc not us/me as a people/kiwi
17 Sep 2012, 07:39 am
@optiplay-20: Add to that the semi final punc-up..plenty of glass in your houses .Stop sounding so innocent. Other people on this site are beginning to buy it
17 Sep 2012, 07:39 am
@TheTackler-5: where was aaron smith eased, against scotland?
good enough is old enough!
17 Sep 2012, 07:41 am
@TheTackler-5: Judging by what their coach Robinson has been saying I think Scotland will give NZ a game this year, particularly if it’s wet (which it almost always is at Murrayfield).
17 Sep 2012, 07:42 am
Te Rangi Houston is the Southern African champion of fair play on the rugby field he’s been made to look very foolish over the last two weeks.
17 Sep 2012, 07:42 am
@NZINCHINA-21: I do absolutely not condone any foulplay It is cowardace to elbow sombody who is trapped in ruck(it is always wrong)personally jokes aside, I would have given him 4weeks.
17 Sep 2012, 07:42 am
@Doughnut-8:
Don’t worry about our forwards mate, they will front next game vs you guys. THE Abs made school boy errors at the breakdown which they will rectify and the test in Dunedin is the wake up call they needed.
17 Sep 2012, 07:43 am
@Transformation-25: Remember Gaffie.
17 Sep 2012, 07:47 am
@NZINCHINA-10: Overconfidence ? not I sir .. but the AB were not that flash either considring the disarray of the Boks who have a **** game plan ..
There was no AB try from 1st phase ball which is what we have seen in years past.
I think the Boks are now looking forward to the home matches, simple missed penalties at poles let teh AB off the hook. ..
17 Sep 2012, 07:47 am
@Maori_Fulla-9: We also know that Boks are yet to put in a full 80min performance. We do that let me tell you we will beat all comers. WE just need to select right. Tweak our game plan a bit and with the right flyhalf, scrumhalf and fullback we will be lethal. Our centres will do far better if we had a decent flyhalf. WE do have 3 of them but our Coach just not selecting them to start. If Goosen had started the game against Wallabies and ABs we would have won both games.
After the game on Saturday I have plenty hope. Just need our coach to see he has to drop Morne.
17 Sep 2012, 07:47 am
@NZINCHINA-21: Read my note at 18. We lost PERIOD. No excuses. The tragedy for me is,that had he played the upcoming guys and lost he would have had far more support from the public. Now Hm is in a corner
17 Sep 2012, 07:48 am
@poppa69-13: can’t really use the Donald when Carter played in the third meeting which was a home defeat where he threw the decisive intercept try to JDV.
17 Sep 2012, 07:52 am
@NZINCHINA-21: Read the posts of last week we all predicted a loss for Boks .. so to lose was not unexpected. There is no overconfidence just a knowledge that for all the huff and puff the ABs are not that flash at present.
The no1 team out there but the margins are what we are all discussing.
Come on admit that if the Boks had slotted their easy pens you would have been in trouble ..
17 Sep 2012, 07:53 am
Surprise surprise.
17 Sep 2012, 07:53 am
Doughnut in 2009 in Hamilton you beat us by 2 points with all your stars, the margins are very small no matter what AB or Bokke side takes the field.
Puma steady mate big calls being made here after a 10 point loss and winless from the last 3 tests, get some runscon the board firstwinfrom
17 Sep 2012, 07:54 am
@Doughnut-35:
The Abs were there for the taking, a missed opportunity….that is it in a nutshell.
17 Sep 2012, 07:56 am
Phone texting excuse the shambles at 37, Doughnut yer we could have been but there are plenty of tests where that could be said also.
17 Sep 2012, 07:57 am
The most obvious change needed is at FH and I really hope that HM will now finally move Goosen to FH and send Morne back to the CC , Scrum half though is not that far behind as a problem area.
Ruan was sadly again not the answer , he has had so many opportunities now but just does not produce at test level. As a Shark supporter it pains me to admit this as I had high hopes.
We can change our FH as often as we like but if we have average scrum halves inside of them we will continue to struggle. Not sure what the answer is ,my first inclination will be to move Francois Hougaard back there.
17 Sep 2012, 07:57 am
Is the backline coaching up to standard? Shouldnt the boks have a backline coach with beter credentials? Doesnt a Springbok team deserve the best there is?
Is JDV the best attacking 13 in the country? Bring back Fourie or give JDJ a chance or be brave and give an exciting prospect like Jordaan a chance.
JDV is a spent force. Id ask him to take a long holiday and come back fresh in 2013. He can then challenge Frans for the 12 jersey. He’s no 13…
Is Kirchner the best balanced 15. He’s got a pretty solid kicking game, but thats it.
And obviously drop MS all together.
He is ranked the 4th best flyhalf… Goosen, Jantjies, Lambie maybe even Fouche is better. He needs a long break too and can start rebuilding his form in 2013…
17 Sep 2012, 08:00 am
@TheTackler-30: mallett explained just last week that gaffie was NOT rushed and in fact was ‘blooded’ in exacrly the way you suggested above, the truth is that he didn’t have it…there’s no “gaffie phenomenon”
if goosen can’t cut it then he should be dropped & lambie or jantjies be given equal attempts to claim the jersey!
17 Sep 2012, 08:04 am
@Te Rangatira-23:
i apologise to you personally, tr.
i like you and cane but the rest of your countrymen disgust me.
but if it makes any difference the local kiwi gatkruipertjies disgusts even more.
thats all from me, ciao and have a good day, boet.
17 Sep 2012, 08:05 am
@TheTackler-30: gaffie made his debut for the
Springboks on 13 June 1998 in
the 37–13 win over Ireland at
the Free State Stadium in
Bloemfontein, as fly-half. He
landed three conversions and
two penalty goals in the match.
He played another five tests for
the Springboks the following
season, playing in the two wins over Italy as well as the losses to Wales and the All Blacks.
He next played for the
Springboks in the mid-year tests
17 Sep 2012, 08:05 am
What a k@k article.
EVERYONE needs to start somewhere. Do you think people REALLY believe he will come out and play like Dan Carter from day one?
Damned if you do play him, damned if you don’t. Anything to make a story.
@TheTackler-30:
No one remembers him. Get over it.
17 Sep 2012, 08:06 am
Don’t leave Houston we want to discuss fair play with you.
17 Sep 2012, 08:07 am
“I don’t share the same certainty about Johan Goosen that many others seem to. ”
Ja Vrede, you were the one batting for Morne saying how important he is for the Heineken’s game plan.
I say let the Goose loose.
17 Sep 2012, 08:09 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-43:
You have a nice day too Houston. All good mate.
17 Sep 2012, 08:12 am
If you set loose the exceptional goose please play hougi at scrummie please… Then we will have a running game like never before…
The best possible team for home game is
1-beast
2-chilli
3-coenie
4-etzebeth
5-kruger
6-louw
7-alberts
8-vermeulen
9-hougi(can cover wing)
10-goose
11-habana(can cover @13)
12-steyn(can cover @15)
13-de jong/engelbrecht
14-basson
15-lambie(can cover @10)
16-strauss
17-cilliers
18-vd merwe
19-coetzee
20-brussow
21-pienaar(can cover @9,10,15)
22-engelbrecht/de jong
I think the likes of de villiers, msteyn and beast for that matter is genuinely tired… They are in need of a rest… So heineke need to omit them from squad for home games…
17 Sep 2012, 08:18 am
The forwards were immense this weekend.
Havent seen a performance like that from them in years. Flip, Willem, Vermuelen, Jannie all were massive.
Cant believe we let this one slip. It’ll go down as one of our best opportunities to beat the ABs in NZ. And we bottled it.
17 Sep 2012, 08:24 am
@Te Rangatira-38: @NZINCHINA-39: Fair points guys, just shows how we have declined as Boks.
There is hope but faith in our head coach is diminishing and as for his backline coach .. jeez !
17 Sep 2012, 08:31 am
Doughnut your forwards (except the thug) put in a great performance and you’d probably expect to win 90% of the time after a performance like that, this AB side won’t
roll over and the talk of them being average is rubbush 14 straight and soon they’ll have every trophy there is to win.
17 Sep 2012, 08:32 am
@Doughnut-51:
Look mate, there is so much rugby potential in SA, we’re not blind its right in front of our eyes,just not being harnessed properly because of your set-up/political interference and the unwillingness from coaches to break the shackles and throw the ball around, not willy nilly but with purpose.
17 Sep 2012, 08:33 am
@Te Rangatira-29: All Blacks should note that the last time the Bok forward were dominant was during the Mallet era, at that time it was Heineken who was the forward coach – when he gets key personnel back and a bit of continuity going then watch out – ABs may just have to accept being bullied regularly.
17 Sep 2012, 08:33 am
What people seem to be missing in this whole mess of a game last weekend is this:
The game plan was the correct one, it was the execution that was missing, just as Heynecke has been saying all along.
The thing where Meyer has been wrong all along, in particular with players like Morne Steyn and Ruan Pienaar is that you cannot “coach” them into form at test level. You need to pick the right players for the job and get them to implement the game plan accordingly.
Ruan has been stuffing around behind the scrum and killing any quick ruck ball for years now, and he cannot box kick with the necessary accuracy.
Morne is an attacking liability and has a very mediocre test kicking record away from home. Always has.
This info was all plain and obvious for all to see and yet Heynecke didn’t seem to spot it.
And that worries me.
17 Sep 2012, 08:35 am
@NZINCHINA-52: What is 14 straight?
17 Sep 2012, 08:38 am
RL we’ll never accept that like you’re not accepting losing regularly.
17 Sep 2012, 08:39 am
Test wins.
17 Sep 2012, 08:39 am
Morning Kiwi-friends.
Well done on closing out the game on Saturday. As well as the Boks played, I never had the sense that they believed they should win, especially when the shoulders kept dropping with every missed kick.
If we took the kicks and went 12-3 ahead, maybe then we would have believed something else, but I also think we would have gone into our shells trying to protect the lead.
For the Kiwi’s – Smith is a good number 9, and ignited the backs when he came on. Dagg was also awesome. I think your best contributor was Greyling followed by Morne Steyn.
As for McCaw – the man is awesome. If we had a player who could get away with what he does, I assure you, we would be full of praise, and not call him McCheat, but alas, we will continue to bait Richie “Maradonna” McCaw out of pure jealousy.
Now for the Boks – well done to the tight 5, best game so far, and from Jannie DuP as well. Flip had his best game in a bok jersey, and I must give G10 and some of the Stormers fans my apologies, I never really believed in F Louw & D Vermulen till Saturday. They added a balance that has been missing from the Bok loosies. For once in a long time, I saw the Bok loosies put pressure on the opposition.
I just feel that our backs are stuck in a rut with zero confidence. It starts at 9 & 10.
9 – forced to kick which is not natural
10 – who knows whats wrong with him
Everything outside these 2 makes little difference when the rest of the team are getting such kak ball.
HM – At least you are learning & apologising. More than any bok coach before you. Maybe, just maybe we have some gold lining on the dark cloud above us at the moment.
17 Sep 2012, 08:40 am
@RL-54:
If thats the case and our forwards get bullied regularly then we will have to improve and rectify the problem. The one thing Nz teams including the Abs have prided themselves on is their ability to win under immense pressure (territorially…possession wise) usually through their skill level.
17 Sep 2012, 08:43 am
@Sasuke-56: wins
@NZINCHINA-57: not accepting it is one thing – doing something about it is different. If Meyer selects right he will bully you – I do not see new Thorne and McCaw type players coming through that will stop him.
17 Sep 2012, 08:45 am
Well finally now we can see some change although I argee , with the way HM played Goosen.
We had an old rule that if a player missed 3 kicks someone else should take over , …
I would like to see Hougie at 9 with Goosen at 10
Ckikko will stay cause of quota system…
Unless you pick Jantjies at 10 with Lambie at 15.
Forwards was OK , I still don’t understand Liebenberg there, Dean Disgrace, Vermeulen was better but no X factor.
17 Sep 2012, 08:46 am
@stormersboy-55:
Look it’s probably natural to start you tenure off with what is familiar to you.
The acid test now is to show some flexibility and do what needs to be done.
Out
Pienaar
Steyn
Kirchner
In
Hougaard
Goosen
Taute
17 Sep 2012, 08:47 am
RL talks cheap buddy you’re light years away from emulating our performance, a 10 point loss and the Bokke are going to be worldbeaters like the AB’s please.
17 Sep 2012, 08:49 am
@BULLET-59:
Kind words friend…..I think you covered most bases. The sleeping giant that is Bok rugby starting to awaken….interesting times ahead….If Meyer makes the right decisions then I maybe worried.
17 Sep 2012, 08:50 am
@gunther-63: Ja i get that and as you know Ive been a fan of Morne for a long time but even I could see the wood for the trees there.
But ja, hopefully we’ll get a better balance now.
I think he’ll play Lambie at 15.
I’d also play Vermaak at 9, I rate the guy.
17 Sep 2012, 08:51 am
Everybody love the hit Read put on Vermulen – welcome to test rugby mutha sucker
17 Sep 2012, 08:53 am
@nzincina. ABs are up there mate, no denying that but when you’ve won a World cup on foreign soil, then you can say you’ve been the best in the world ever! You just carry on thinking it if it makes you feel better. What goes around comes around, enjoy being at the top while it lasts, and don’t forget to come back for more discussion when things are not going that well anymore!!
17 Sep 2012, 08:53 am
Still we have ABSOLUTELY no threat from the Bok backline .. Habana s try was pure individualism ….. do the Bok backs even practise backline moves ?
17 Sep 2012, 08:54 am
@stormersboy-66: I don’t understand the point of taking Vermaak, as well as the hooker from Sharkies on tour if they never play?
I think the Bulls need Vermaak desperatly.
17 Sep 2012, 08:55 am
@stew-69: Only team in SA at moment is Lions that plays with backline and looks as if they actually practise it.
17 Sep 2012, 08:55 am
@NZINCHINA-64: I’m willing to bet that the Boks will stop the Blacks streak on 15.
17 Sep 2012, 08:57 am
@RL-54: heyneke was only the Bok forward coach at the ’99 world cup and not before that…he wasn’t part of the set up that equalled the record number of wins…
17 Sep 2012, 08:58 am
@capebull-70: the smurfs will be relegated.
17 Sep 2012, 08:58 am
@ruggajunkie-68:
So with your line of logic…the Aussies must be the best/greatest ever cause they’ve won two WC’s abroad?
17 Sep 2012, 09:02 am
@capebull-70: Ja, it’s become standard practice to tour with 3 hookers and Scrummies.
For my money Vermaak should have been given more playing time. He is a very exciting player. Always was.
17 Sep 2012, 09:02 am
@Te Rangatira-75: Those aussie teams were not bad though !
17 Sep 2012, 09:02 am
@NZINCHINA-58: oh thanks. will be broken at soccer city
17 Sep 2012, 09:03 am
Hope HM will have the guts to drop the players who didi not perform. To many players in the backline seem to be going through the motions, banking their match fee’s, and not playing with passion. I wonder when the team is going to get a new captain, how many more bad games from him will HM accept? plays better when not captain… He should of been able to influence the backline during the match.
17 Sep 2012, 09:05 am
@capebull-70: 5th aug 2012
Asked about the reason for selecting three scrumhalves in his 30-man squad, Meyer said it was such a specialist position that he needed the extra back-up.
“It is always a tough one,” he said, adding: “If you select 30 players you want to go with two full squads, especially for training purposes, but hooker and scrumhalf are such specialist positions.
“We have only been together for three weeks.
“No.9 and hooker are the players that touches the ball the most and they are still finding their feet in terms of the game plan.
“You don’t want to get into a situation where your No.9 and hooker are on the bench, then he goes from Currie Cup rugby straight into starting a Test. We want to keep those guys in the mix [at the Bok team].
“We want to keep them up to date with the gameplan
“It is tough for two other players, who can’t make the squad. However, it is important to have continuity with your No.9 and hooker.”
17 Sep 2012, 09:08 am
@stew-77:
No…not bad at all when you look at their 9/10 axis….Nick Farr Jones/ Micheal Lynagh…..George Gregan/ Stephen Larkham you can see why they were so good.
17 Sep 2012, 09:10 am
Ruggajunkie the AB’s are right up there, how kind of you.
17 Sep 2012, 09:11 am
The hookers in the squad should spend more time getting their timing right in the line outs, or just learn the calls! Only got better when Bekker came on, is that because he is so good he can cover up their bad throw in’s?
17 Sep 2012, 09:12 am
Greyling needs body guards when he lands at OR Tambo.
That hit on McCaw was similar to Piet Van Zyl’s hit on Dave McHugh.
In the words of Whitney Houston “Its not right, but its okay”
17 Sep 2012, 09:14 am
@RL-72:
History suggests that would be a good bet.
Every long the AB’s have ever strung together has been stopped by the Bokke.
17 Sep 2012, 09:16 am
@Jeraldjay-84:
Well all we can hope for SA rugby is there isn’t a large group of “supporters” that pitch up to lionise the tool.
17 Sep 2012, 09:16 am
RL good for you buddy put the house on it if you’re so confident, you’ll be playing the RC champions.
17 Sep 2012, 09:17 am
@Transformation-73: who was the forward coach then if not Heineken?
17 Sep 2012, 09:21 am
@NZINCHINA-87:
Looking for a brawl again?
17 Sep 2012, 09:21 am
@ruggajunkie-68:
I have never rated the RWC as the yardstick of what makes a team the best on the planet.
NZ were lucky in 2011, SA were lucky in 2007.
17 Sep 2012, 09:24 am
@stew-67: good hit but after his relatively anonymous showing against the Wallabies I think Vermuelen was the best No.8 of the two at the weekend
17 Sep 2012, 09:25 am
i don’t get this trepidation to play johan, how many caps did morne steyn have when pdv chucked him in at Loftus vs the B&I Lions with the team losing and ruan (whose play was fine) kicking rubbish?
pdv again, chucked morne in at half-time in bloem against the all blacks when ruan had kicked 1 out of 4 in the 1st half and he’s been there eversince.
heyneke dropped the ball on saturday!
17 Sep 2012, 09:28 am
@Brads-86:
I can forgive Greyling for the hit on McCaw even the 10min in the bin but not for dropping the ball 3 metre’s from the tryline.
At that stage (18-11) a converted try would have drawn the game.
17 Sep 2012, 09:29 am
Dawn to a man they’re all certain they are going to win at Soccer city now after a 10 point loss, its very amusing.
17 Sep 2012, 09:29 am
@Transformation-92: I think its more than just that, if HM picks Goosen and tells him to play like Morne , we have gained nothing.
If HM is ready to change his game , then pick Hougie and Goose
17 Sep 2012, 09:31 am
Jerald thats great when one of your players is attacked with a flying elbow to the face we can all have a good laugh about it together.
17 Sep 2012, 09:31 am
I haven’t posted these past couple of days as some of the abuse from so called supporters resembels hate speech and is totally over the top.
nonetheless, personally that 16 all draw in Mendoza is not looking like a bad result. I definately fancy the argies comfortably against the ozzies and the kiwis will need to play out of their skin. Does anyone know where the games are also being played, in mendoza? the antipodeans will be in trouble as they will not be able to get any width on the ball and the argy midfield defence looks tiptop.
which basically leaves the boks needing bonus point wins at altitude I think.
For me, that lost bonus point on the weekend might really be what has cost us.
but if anyone really believes that the kiwis and ozzies are going to win in SA, I’m sorry but you are watching a different game to me. The Ozzies will get in big troubleand if things go our way in the Argy vs Kiwi game will leave the Kiwis travelling to Joburg.
The situation will arise which leaves the Boks a bonus point win against the kiwis without conceding a bonus point…..or points difference to make up.
And if there was ever a coach that sent a team out onto the paddock to drill a new arsehole on home soil, it is heyneke meyer.
17 Sep 2012, 09:32 am
@Brads-90: it’s the only time where games are played with teams at full-strength and on neutral territory (host aside) that all teams build towards for 4 years
17 Sep 2012, 09:34 am
@Transformation-92:
What was the reason for taking Beast off?
Our scrums surprisingly was on par at that stage (58mins) and Beast didn’t look tired and he wasn’t injured.
Quite bizarre.
17 Sep 2012, 09:34 am
@Jeraldjay-93:
Sorry, but that is the kakest notion imaginable.
You can forgive thuggery but not piss poor handling skills.
You must hate most of the team.
17 Sep 2012, 09:34 am
@Big Hit-91: He was better than last week , but good ???
Two good steals on ground, not enough meters with ball in hand. At least he is improving , I will give him that.
Dean came from no where, through Bulls ranks , why I have no idea, his scrumming is suspect , thats his first Job , like Liebenberg’s first job is, line outs. I thought Flip had a decent game for a change.
17 Sep 2012, 09:35 am
Oh dear Brig you think the Bokke are going to win the Rc now as well, this keeps getting better.
17 Sep 2012, 09:37 am
@Transformation-92:
I think it’s more to do with experience at S15 level than Boks. The problem is that we’ve never really managed our 10 options to provide alternative future cover.
17 Sep 2012, 09:37 am
@NZINCHINA-96:
You think I had a good laugh.
We were penalized for the hit and a the Boks were reduced to 14 men at a crucial stage of the game.
17 Sep 2012, 09:41 am
Yer I do, you all thought the attack on McCaw was justified and you’ll be saying that around the photocopier this morning, it made the victory so much sweeter good V evil.
17 Sep 2012, 09:42 am
Word on the street is that Heyneke will persist with Morne.
17 Sep 2012, 09:43 am
@Brads-100:
I can forgive thuggery if the player gets away with it.
Don’t paint all the Boks with the same brush because of individuals.
17 Sep 2012, 09:43 am
@RL-88: i can’t recalll but in 1997 heyneke was asst coach at SWD, ’98 he was promoted to head coach still at SWD, the same year he was made Emerging Boks coach, in ’99 he was the Stormers forwards coach and in the same year was invited by Mallett to go with him to the World Cup…before that he had no involvement with the Boks.
17 Sep 2012, 09:45 am
@Big Hit-98:
Don’t make me laugh.
Getting through a nonsense round robin is a breeze for all but the most terminally dismal NH “giants” of the game.
After that it is a straight knock out, where the winner could, and has side stepped teams that have been their ******* in general competition.
Winning the RWC is a tremendous honour and an accolade the team will rightly treasure.
It still doesn’t make them the best team.
Just like winning the FA Cup in England doesn’t make the team the premier outfit in the country, or even qualify them to play in the Premier League.
17 Sep 2012, 09:47 am
@Jeraldjay-107:
Say that again!
You can forgive thuggery if they get away with it?
Clearly your mate Dean thought the same thing.
17 Sep 2012, 09:48 am
@Brads-90: NZ and Aus were also lucky in 87 and 91, respectively.
17 Sep 2012, 09:52 am
@willievz-106:
os that the streets of London?
17 Sep 2012, 09:54 am
I think Pienaar is copping a lot of unnecessary flak. He didn’t have a great game kicking out of hand on Sat. But he is a vastly superior scrumhalf to Hougaard. Far more tactically minded and his option taking reflects that.
17 Sep 2012, 09:54 am
@willievz-111:
Fair enough, so was SA in 1995
17 Sep 2012, 09:56 am
Dean Greyling was a disgrace to the Bok Jersey on Saturday. The Springbok camp do not condone that sort of idiocy and neither should any supporter with a brain in their head. Playing the AB’s for 10 minutes with 14 men is not something any team ever wants to have to do. Apart from that, it was thoroughly unproffessional and just stupid thuggery. I hope he never wears a Bok jersey again.
17 Sep 2012, 09:56 am
@gunther-112: No, Pretoria.
And it has been for some time.
“Morne should retain the 10 jersey this year” – Gunther, Tacitus and Brigadier in June 2010
17 Sep 2012, 09:57 am
@Brads-114: Certainly. The Benazzi disallowed try.
17 Sep 2012, 09:59 am
@willievz-116:
So in reality you are talking out your botty.
it’s 2012 now.
times have changed.
17 Sep 2012, 10:00 am
@Brads-109: Australia finished runner-up in their group last year so the NH bashing isn’t warranted.
The World Cup is the only time when all teams are at full-strength and playing at a neutral venue (host side). This is key when taking into account for a global season and the club v country pull in other parts of the world.
Against that background it is little surprise that NZ find it a much tougher tournament and have yet to win it away from home.
17 Sep 2012, 10:02 am
@Yetirat-113: depends what kind of game SA want to play, meyerball requires kickers at 9, 10 and 15 so taking that into account the Pienaar is the right call
17 Sep 2012, 10:04 am
Big t it, it could be your year next year we’re getting close to the 10 year mark, you getting excited?
17 Sep 2012, 10:07 am
@willievz-117:
The point being, the outcome of a single performance does not mark the worth of a team.
The AB’s were damned as choker’s for 20 years, and they deserved it.
It did not mean they were rubbish, or they didn’t deserve respect during the RWC.
It simply meant they should have won the damned thing by virtue of being the best team in the world, but were bettered on the day, time and time again.
17 Sep 2012, 10:08 am
@gunther-118: Nope.
2010, 2011 and 2012.
Didn’t I have an argument with you about Morne earlier this year? You wanted experience, I wanted competence
17 Sep 2012, 10:10 am
@Big Hit-119:
Are you saying the NH Club comps are more important to you than Internationals.
I repeat, to you.
17 Sep 2012, 10:12 am
@Brads-122: Agree.
If the WC is all that matters then all other tests should be named friendlies.
Which I will find very hard to accept.
17 Sep 2012, 10:12 am
@NZINCHINA-121:
Nah, it wont happen.
If we lose our streak it will be to SA, and then go on and stack up another 7 or 8 wins before the next proper “Test” in the Rugby Championship.
17 Sep 2012, 10:13 am
@Brads-124: no, but they are more important to the club owners in England and France who pour millions into signing players
17 Sep 2012, 10:17 am
@willievz-125:
Yep, football, they have this idea that you should get excited by playing “friendlies” between proper engagements.
Yew, like playing around with your brothers and sisters before going courting properly.
17 Sep 2012, 10:18 am
@Brads-122: ‘but were bettered on the day, time and time again.’
The best teams rise to the occasion and perform under pressure.
@willievz-125: the WC is not all that matters but it is the pinnacle of rugby, however that does not mean other tests are friendlies.
@Brads-128: ‘Yew, like playing around with your brothers and sisters before going courting properly.’
WTF?
17 Sep 2012, 10:20 am
@Big Hit-127:
Well seeing as I couldn’t give give a flying f uck of what happens to any Club in Europe, please excuse me if I disagree with what they pay or who they employ, or what conditions they impose on those players.
17 Sep 2012, 10:21 am
Somebody asked where Argentina will play against All Blacks and Aus: I can’t find it now but the matches are not in Mendoza but La Plata and Rosario
17 Sep 2012, 10:23 am
@Brads-130:
As being important to me..
17 Sep 2012, 10:26 am
@Big Hit-129:
Which is why NZ has such an absurd winning record against England, especially in RWC matches.
17 Sep 2012, 10:39 am
@willievz-123:
He’s a shadow of 2011.
17 Sep 2012, 10:41 am
I think fans have been far too impatient with this new bok era. That is what it is … a new era! HM is only 7 games in and it was inevitable that he would go for what he knows initially.
Can people not see that he is also showing foresight by bringing the likes of Goosen in? And wait till a few injuries are out of the way and some of the other youngsters have got some experience under the belt … backline players in particular.
And to those comparing Goosen to Gawie … step away from the tunnel (vision). They are different people and it does not take a genius to figure out that Gawie did not have the head for the game. Goosen in his brief time has already displayed a lot more mettle!
17 Sep 2012, 10:42 am
@gunther-134: I’d say he’s been a shadow of 2009 for about 3 seasons now.
I doubt that any of Lambie, Jantjies Goosen or even Grant would have received the tenure Morne has in 2012.
Morne will start in the home tests. You heard it here first. And he will struggle on attack, but slot his goals – as one blogger posted on another thread, Meyer will then tell all of us that he was right all along. It is a recurring nightmare.
17 Sep 2012, 10:45 am
@Brads-133:
Did you know BH
NZ has an ugly away win margin over England that exceeds England’s home win margin against all opposition, which includes the likes of Samoa.
Who they have played 6 times to stack that ratio in their favour.
17 Sep 2012, 10:49 am
@Big Hit-129:
hahahaha
wow have you changed your tune.
The Big Hit early last year was saying the tests in between RWC are just warmups or testing grounds for the next RWC. It does not matterif you have #1 ranking spot. IF you cant win RWC you will never be the best.
Now this was from Big Hit last year.
I suggest you stop talking cr@p ya two faced git.
17 Sep 2012, 10:53 am
@Big Hit-119:
“The World Cup is the only time when all teams are at full-strength ”
How ever buys this rubbish from BH needs help.
Not too many teams start or end with there full strength teams.
NZ hasnt had there #1 team playing in the last 3 RWCs.
Where do you get this rubbish from,honestly?
17 Sep 2012, 11:09 am
@Hurricane-139:
Hurricane, you are being unkind.
He clearly meant those few weeks when the club owners of the superior competition’s in the NH allowed their SH stars to return to their national teams.
Knowing full well most of the true NH stars are actually ineligible for international play, even though it has nothing to do with the IRB regulations.
17 Sep 2012, 11:13 am
@Hurricane-138: I stand by it. Unfortunately the host NZ didn’t win theirs fairly so still can’t be considered the best. On to 2015!
17 Sep 2012, 11:26 am
HM is only going to swap Greyling in the next test, unless he gives Coetzee another starts at 6. The rest of the team will stay as is.
17 Sep 2012, 11:28 am
@Big Hit-141: I am obviously a staunch Bok supporter but to say NZ are not the best is just plane silly. And it just reeks of sour grapes to say they did not win 2015 fairly, even if there are 1000s of arguments to support that notion.
What I do believe though is that, despite the Boks’ terrible performance in the RC so far, they will become the dominant force in world rugby over the next few years. The force we as Bok fans have always known them to be capable of.
17 Sep 2012, 11:31 am
@Big Hit-141:
No you have just been found out as an idiot.
Change your tune,lol.snapped
17 Sep 2012, 11:33 am
@thegreenman_sa-143:
Spot on
Big Hit is a sour little grape.
Before the RWC, the told us the ABs only won games in between RWCs because all the other teams are preparing and playing B teams.
Now tune is changed and yet we still not good enough.
17 Sep 2012, 11:37 am
@thegreenman_sa-143: bro it was tongue-in-cheek, not entirely serious.
As to SA, well I don’t see them becoming the dominant force unless player management improves and the backline is actually allowed to play rugby.
17 Sep 2012, 11:43 am
@Brads-140:
Brads sorry but i knew exactly what he meant.
I have been here a long time. You really dont know half of it
@Big Hit-146:
hahaha
As if we believe that.
17 Sep 2012, 11:44 am
@Big Hit-146: Fair enough re: tongue-in-cheek. Perhaps being a bit more obvious on the wit and dry humour would suffice
Folks are sensitive you know 
As to your player management point … of course that is the case. There are always ifs and buts to everything in life. In this instance though I truly believe it is early days for HM. Fans are far too quick to jump ship on a coach and you’ll do well to name one other than Kitch Christie who has not received a hard time. I do suspect though that had he not fallen ill and carried on he too would have eventually fallen prey to the vultures. Anyway, I think HM will find his feet and turn this team around … and I am no Bulls fan
GO CHEETAHS!
17 Sep 2012, 11:45 am
@Big Hit-119:
“when all teams are at full-strength”
the big hit default defense..
has been a staple since ***** was a boy
lots of saffas now c\laim this too…
it surely is up there with the conspiracy angle for outright loser talk..
17 Sep 2012, 11:51 am
SH – 6 WC wins
NH – 1 WC win..
so any mocking of NH rugby is completely warranted, but it is like picking a fight with a cripple, they rarely win in the SH these teams..
also, sk Samoa about the clubs releasing players for the 2003 WC?
17 Sep 2012, 12:03 pm
@thegreenman_sa-148: yeah I know they’re sensitive, but also arrogant grandstanders at times too
so it doesn’t hurt the odd time to let them know they’re not quite as good as they like to tell everyone.
Despite the result for SA, their last match was a step forward for Meyer, whatever anyone thinks about his gameplan a new coach always deserves some time to get it right.
17 Sep 2012, 12:11 pm
Details Played Won By NZ Won by England Drawn NZ points England points
In England 21 16 4 1 395 240
In NZ 12 10 2 0 370 155
Neutral venue 1 1 0 0 45 29
Overall 34 27 6 1 810 424
wasnt your best team on 27 occassions was it Big Hit?
17 Sep 2012, 12:15 pm
@Big Hit-151:
Dont do the poor ole Big Hit.
Only the people that have been on here for years know excatly what you are like.
You sure suckered The greenman into the ole tongue and cheek.
But we dont buy one bit of it.
For the record, if i thought we were all that good,why did i say on here the Boks were going to win on Saturday?
Once again you talk rubbish,plain and simple.
17 Sep 2012, 14:07 pm
@Hurricane-153: Nobody being suckered into anything
I could not care less whether or not it’s tongue in cheek. Either way my point stands.
17 Sep 2012, 16:28 pm
@NZINCHINA-96: Lighten up pal.
The whole of SA condemns what he did.JJ said in jest.
17 Sep 2012, 16:41 pm
@Big Hit-151: biggy don’t let these kiwis get you all the moer in – they are going down for the count at soccer city. Bet on it
18 Sep 2012, 02:33 am
I wouldnt call M Steyn useless, the guy has saved the Springboks on many occations. He is just not inform, overplayed. I am sure he would be happy to have the home leg with him spending time with his new child, any person would.
So to be left out for the home leg wouldnt be a bad thing for him.
Goosen, may be the “golden egg” and i agree, at test level we have seen diddly squot to make an assessment on him yet. I think Lambie should start on the home leg and let goosen warm the bench, as lambie has a wee bit more experience. The backline coach did say, a while back that lambie is a flyhalf.
Its amasing, reporters build these kids up to levels so high that when they dont reach these levels its a catastrophe. ONe thing I dont get is why we compare and group players with previous greats? Whats the point? Only to be disapointed. I mean why campare a kid to Honey balls when Goosen is a person who is uniquely different like everyone else?
Why say somebody is the next Matfield or Botha etc?
Does the person not want to be who they are than some chap in history?
Are they to stupid to be themselves…
18 Sep 2012, 02:59 am
@Greenies-157: The backline coach said Lambie should be regarded as a 10 but Heyneke said recently that he should play 15. Whichever is the case, I feel for Lambie. During the last 320 minutes of test rugby he was given 15 minutes in total !!! If HM does not want to pick him, send him to the Sharks to get some time on the park.
HM said on SABC2 last night that the criticism of Zane Kirchener was unfair. The interview was in Afrikaans and therefore he was not misqouted or misunderstood etc. According to HM, Zane had a few solid performances: this indicates to me that Lambie will not be picked in the starting line-up (once again !!)
18 Sep 2012, 09:28 am
@RL-156:
Well I wouldn’t recommend you or anyone betting their house on a win, but for sure, beating South Africa at home is a big ask for the AB’s.
Not as much as it is for the reverse, but pretty close.
18 Sep 2012, 15:49 pm
PETITION AGAINST MORNE
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.