Make us believe in a bold Bok era, Heyneke
17 Sep 2012
MARK KEOHANE, in his Business Day newspaper column, writes denial is the devil that has to be avoided for the Boks to be winners and the best team in the world.
Once again South Africans will take comfort that the All Blacks are not quite as good and the Boks are not quite as bad. Once again we can reflect on a heroic defeat. Once again we would be deluded.
If the aim is to consistently be the best rugby team in the world then brave 10-point defeats against the old foe can’t be viewed as victories. If the aim is to be the best then the Boks have to set standards that include not playing well and beating the All Blacks by 10 points; not exceeding expectation and still losing by 10 points.
Come on.
There has to be a change of mindset, from within the current management. And there has to be a demand from the rugby public that quality of performance is never secondary.
There has to be some honesty about where it went wrong. Only then can it be corrected.
Meyer, as coach and head strategist, promised more than we saw in Argentina, Australia and New Zealand, and the public rightly expected more of the Springboks.
I don’t get why there is an absolute fear of failure within the management. If ever there was a time where the public would have been accommodating it was in the year post a World Cup when most teams tend to be in transition and when coaches can embrace variation in selection, strategy and approach.
I am not talking about experimentation but variation.
All of the successful Bok teams of the professional era have played good rugby without having to be like the All Blacks and Wallabies and without having to give up the fundamentals associated with the South African game.
Meyer’s Boks are capable of so much more, but it starts with the coach and his support staff.
Passion should be a given and not the exception that gets the Boks close to beating the All Blacks in New Zealand or inspires the one-off win against the Kiwis in South Africa.
The Boks have players capable of producing a game that embraces moving the ball through hands and winning with skill and not relying exclusively on forward dominance and physical superiority.
Every good Bok team has employed an effective kicking game, and there is no crime in Meyer believing in the merits of playing for field position and minimising risk. But it has to be balanced with a trust that those selected are good enough to want to maintain possession and effectively use this possession.
Selections have to offer hope of victory and not limit the margin of the defeat.
I am not dispirited. If Meyer had done everything right and the Boks were three from seven, then we could talk about a catastrophe.
He hasn’t and acknowledging this would signal strength in character.
There is hope for the Boks and there will always be because the quality of player is good enough to beat any team once, but the measure of great Bok teams is that they beat all opponents more than once, home and away.
Meyer’s conservatism in selection cost him a famous win in Dunedin. I championed Meyer’s national appointment, but he’s struggled more than I ever anticipated in getting his selections right. He surely can’t get them wrong for the two home remaining Rugby Championship matches against Australia and New Zealand.
There can no longer be a case made for Morne Steyn’s retention. There can also no longer be the nonsense of Johan Goosen not being good enough, experienced enough or old enough to start. There can’t be an argument to ignore the claims of Elton Jantjies as his understudy and if Meyer does not rate Pat Lambie then he owes it to the player to send him back to Durban and allow him to actually play some rugby.
I never considered Meyer would struggle to break his association with the Bulls, but I underestimated the bond that exists. His loyalty to Morne Steyn was misguided and no newcomer picked at flyhalf would have been afforded seven Test matches in which to get it right. No newcomer would have been excused a goal-kicking success rate in the mid-50s.
Defeat will force change but there would have been greater comfort had innovation determined selection.
The Boks always produce inspired performances at home in the latter stages of what was the Tri Nations and now is the Rugby Championship. What we are seeing in 2012 is no different to what we saw a decade ago.
I refuse to believe Meyer will not get it right. He is a student of the game, a man who instills confidence when talking rugby and a man who appreciates the nuances of the game.
Which makes the last month that much harder to fathom. How the hell did he get it so wrong, in selection and in inspiration?
I can’t recall a coach being more unanimously embraced as a national appointment and Meyer needs to know the public wants him to succeed.
He needs to lose the fear of failure and trust his ability to win as much as the public did when lauding his appointment. If he does that, not only will there be hope for the Boks, there will also be conviction in the belief they can be the best.
778 Comments
17 Sep 2012, 09:32 am
HM stupid dragon
17 Sep 2012, 09:34 am
heyneke out!
17 Sep 2012, 09:39 am
Fear….
Spot on…
17 Sep 2012, 09:40 am
I also hope he stops acting like a parent in the coaching box.
Bring back Mallet.
17 Sep 2012, 09:48 am
“There can’t be an argument to ignore the claims of Elton Jantjies as his understudy and if Meyer does not rate Pat Lambie then he owes it to the player to send him back to Durban and allow him to actually play some rugby.”
That sums it up nicely, the Goose must start with Elton as his backup – already a massive improvement on the ever kak Morne – Lambie has to go and work on his fullback play and work on gaining some pace.
17 Sep 2012, 09:51 am
pat lambie 10
the goose 15
both players interchangeable
its the future
17 Sep 2012, 09:51 am
Biggest disappointment has been HMs lack of flexibility.
I really thought he had the ability to alter his game plan and selections from where he was with the Bulls 3 or 4 seasons ago.
Why did he sign JJ and Sadie to the Bulls and state he wanted to play a more ball in hand typ of game?
Why does he continue to believe it wont work with the Boks if he was so willing to try in with the Bulls?
Confusion reigns.
The worst thing is that in being so close to beating the ABs this week is that he will still feel the kicking game plan will still work.
The only reason we got close this weekend is because of the forwards(except for Greyling). Not because of the kicking game plan.
The ease with which the ABs back 3 snaffled the high ball was embarrasing.
17 Sep 2012, 09:56 am
@RL-5: Heyneke’s blind loyalty to the bulls can be compared to your ignorance of the talent that is Pat Lambie. Why is everyone talking so much about Goosen? He is talented, but has only had half a good season in the Super 15. Lambie has two great season’s under his belt. When he didn’t play, the sharks were half the team. You don’t need to be stupidly fast to be a good flyhalf, he reads the game better than anyone in SA at the moment. I’m pretty sure he is quicker than Dan Carter, has an excellent kicking record and is already more experienced than Goosen. Surely he should be the front-runner for the number 10 spot?
17 Sep 2012, 09:59 am
This is all so boring now, we have been on and on about this guy …
Can we have an update article on returning injuries ?
Chili
Coonie
Brussow
JPP
Kolisi
Elstadt
17 Sep 2012, 09:59 am
@RL-5:
Agreed on all counts..
At best, Lambie is 3rd best in both positions.
@ FB, he lags behind Aplon and Taute, and is wanted for pace.
@ FH, Goosen and Elton offers more.
17 Sep 2012, 09:59 am
HM will go to MS again at loftus.And even though we will see a better performance from him, we are still going to be stuck with Morras.The thing is the public want something new and exciting.And the Goose is looking like just that.
17 Sep 2012, 10:01 am
There’s a dichotomy here – there’s us the poor proletariat & there’s Heyneke who’s approaching the job as if the boks are a provincial team. Next coach must have NO recent affiliation with an SA team. Gert Smal
17 Sep 2012, 10:03 am
Meyer also said that by the end of the away games he would have a better idea of the players he wantsto moveforward with.
Personally i can see both the ozzies and kiwis getting a paksla in the republic.
Technical issues of concern are still our lineout as well. The lack of a decent tail jumper is making our lineout very predictable and easily contestable. Flip won his ball as 2 jumper but as soon as we put some depth on the throw we get in trouble. It could also be a timing issue with the hooker but it needs to get sorted.
Very impressed with flips effort this past weekend i personally saw him being very lucky to be included but he put in his best performance i have ever seen from him at any level.
So basically we are still in this rugby championship albeit we require a good result by the argies againstthemkiwis and as things are transpiring that does not look like a gimme.
17 Sep 2012, 10:04 am
@Pot Blou Gevaar-10: It is difficult to prove otherwise right now, but I disagree with you. Next year Plum is going to play Lambie at 10 for the season, and then he will be able to show what he can do in that position. I think he will be a great 10, which should always be his first choice position. 2013 we should be sitting with three excellent flyhalves to choose from and Steyn will not be one of them…
17 Sep 2012, 10:05 am
@jonnyBravo-8:
Note that Lambie shifted from 10 to 15 midway through this season, with Michalak running at FH. You can deduce that there was a call made from Heyneke to Plumtree requesting this switch. The boy has a well rounded game no doubt, but @ 15 you need gas. In one-on-one situations, Dagg, Beale, Aplon will smoke him.
17 Sep 2012, 10:05 am
HM has made his name a bit “gat” so to speak. There is so much talent at his disposal yet he refuses to select them. I refuse to believe that HM is this stupid or stubborn! The forwards were pretty good other than Greyling. How does he even select this oke? And then MS, he was warned that this would happen and still selects him. How stupid do you have to be? Jean de villiers is dogsh1t and does nothing at centre. Kirchner catches and kicks away possession all the time. Where’s Lambie, where’s Juan De Jong, where’s Jantjies or Goosen altho I do believe Goosen should not have been selected with the limited amount of rugger he’s played since coming back from injury? 3 wins from 7 is not acceptable. Shout if you need help HM…think most people could help you!
17 Sep 2012, 10:06 am
I would keep Flippie at 4.Cant drop a guy after a performance like that.
17 Sep 2012, 10:06 am
Good article.
Not only does the rugby public want a coach who believes in the quality of our players (especially the backs), but the rugby public wants a coach who can admit he made mistakes and convince the supporters that changes will be made to move into the right direction.
HM cant be blind to the short comings of the performances. . The backs should be given more credit and be involved in a coaching setup to enable them to become world beaters. In any defeat any coach will try to rectify the problems and I cant believe that he will be so ignorant not to admit that his tactics and selections are to blame. Especially after a defeat against the ABs which should have been a victory for the boks. Greyling,bad goal kicking and bad tactical kicking is a useless excuse. Poor handeling and skill from the backs are to blame. And no one except the coach should admit to that.
HM does not only need to select the right players but make them play ‘winning rugby’ and not ‘do what it takes not to lose rugby’ like the stormers played and the are boks playing now.
17 Sep 2012, 10:10 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-13: You still confident about Meyer and Morne, colonel?
17 Sep 2012, 10:12 am
@mako-14:
An extended run in his prefered position would certainly do him good.
17 Sep 2012, 10:13 am
16, last weekend vs ozzies we picked cilliers on the bench to sub our prop and to be honest wemdidn,t get much from him. This week we had greyling on the bench to sub beest. He obviously had a shocker of a cameo but the selection had logic to it. Hardly the coaches fault that he flies over a ruck especially when the ref had already given us the penalty advantage.
17 Sep 2012, 10:14 am
And who do you blame for the backs crappy skill level? Not once did the put it threw the hands to create space… It was awful. Will HM take the blame? Perhaps there is not enough emphasis in attacking play during training…? Is our backline coach just not good enough??? Will HM realise this and amount someone else?
17 Sep 2012, 10:16 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-21: The boks are still in it how? Are you saying they’ve a chance to win it?
17 Sep 2012, 10:17 am
Mark my words, Steyn will get another chance at Loftus. He will kick well and we will be told that Heyneke is vindicated.
It’s like a nightmare unfolding.
17 Sep 2012, 10:17 am
ALot of you people are are rather wrong.
HM showed us on Saturday that the Boks can compete with the ABs and the like. HM even apologised for not bringing on M Steyn earlier but hey ho HM has realsied The Goose is the new Bok 10!!
The Boks played very well on Saturday morning, the Bok pack blew the ABs off the park, only to be let down by M Steyn.
If HM starts with The Goose and the Boks can win both their home games then mission accomplished as far as i am concerned.
17 Sep 2012, 10:18 am
19, very confident about meyer although morne,s confidence is obviously shot to pieces. Really feel for morne, it is uncanny really, you see him strike the ball on target and at the last second it just goes. Luck is something morne could use a little of. Nonetheless, the goose must start.
Boks will hurt both the antipodean sides atmhome badly i feel.
17 Sep 2012, 10:19 am
@Jeez-22:
theres clearly no emphasis on backline moves or room for experimenting
touch rugby is probably banned from training
all the backs do at training is see the ball, chase the ball
nothing more, nothing less
17 Sep 2012, 10:20 am
Jean De Villiers is becoming another John Smit unfortunately.
The passion and belief is still there, but his mind cannot will the body any longer – he overstayed his international career by a season, slipping tackles, no strike running from his channel, unable to create space for his wings, etc. A chronic ailment being brought from the Stormers over the last few seasons.
Can the real 13’s please stand up?
Enter De Jongh, Ebersohn, Jordaan, etc.
17 Sep 2012, 10:20 am
When the opportunities came knocking ,and they where to close to the goal line to kick the ball away, they panicked and skip passed. That allowed the ABs to close down the space and defend their tryline with ease. It seemed like they only trained to do skip passes!
Wow and JDV had one of his worst games in a bok jersey.
Do you want your captain to be one of the weaker players on the field?
17 Sep 2012, 10:21 am
@jonnyBravo-8: Chief forget Pat Lambie, that ship sailed sometime ago, in the 10 berth, he’s behind Jantjies and Goosen, in the 15 position, he is purely a solid player but nothing special. The whole aura around him has come to a justifiable end, and NEVER mention Lambie in the same sentence and thought with Dan Carter, just simply rude and disrespectful.
17 Sep 2012, 10:21 am
25….and if the argies turn over the kiwis which is not beyond the realm of possibily we are right in this tournamnent still.
The boks needing a bonus point win a soccercity maybe.
17 Sep 2012, 10:22 am
The sooner our coach starts appreciating the strengths of our players and plans his gameplan around their strengths, the better for us. He needs to quit this horrible habit of ignoring the player’s strengths and trying to mould them into doing things they’re not good at.
Until he does above, the players’ morale will be low as they will feel they’re not playing to their best, even if the Springboks win. We need players to go out there and enjoy their selves, with the style of play that they’re comfortable with. I don’t think our coach understands this and if there is anything that will cause his downfall, it will be this.
That’s why I’m not very optimistic even if the coach makes the relevant personnel changes in the team. The real change that needs to happen is the mindset of our coach. If that mindset changes happens, the correct team selection will then automatically take place as the coach will be able to see which players really deserve to be in the team based on their strengths.
17 Sep 2012, 10:22 am
@Mr Black-24: Absolutely.
Morne will not be dropped.
17 Sep 2012, 10:23 am
@Jeez-22:
Have been campaigning to get Hawies Fourie involved for a while now.
He has a bunch of “no-name” Cheetahs backs running intelligent moves for a few seasons. On merit, probably the best backs coach in SA.
17 Sep 2012, 10:24 am
If you want a Dagg-like fullback, look no further than Coetzee of the Lions. And if you want someone big, solid and fast with a big boot, then Taute offers so much more than Zane. Those should be the options at 15.
And I agree with Keo’s take on the flyhalf pecking order. Goosen to start and Jantjes on the bench. These two are head and shoulders above the other candidates, Lambie included.
Once we have Bismark, JP, Eben and possibly Schalk back in the starting line-up, plus the changes mentioned above, this will be an entirely different Bok team.
17 Sep 2012, 10:27 am
Ouch , we wanted a new coach and we got what we asked for. Nothing wrong with Meyer as a coach , but his selection and his staff that he has under him is not the best in the country. He sticked with his Bulls players and bulls coaching stuff. We need the best to beat the best. Hopefully he will open his eyes and see that his going in the wrong direction with this team.
17 Sep 2012, 10:28 am
I agree Lambie is a fantastic talent. You have to have him in your starting 15, anywhere from 9-15. He is just that good. But, Goosen and Jantjies are the complete no10s. There is no doubt about that.
Must say, I’m still confused though. Even though Lambie played well in every position he played, the best I’ve ever seen him play… and when he was actually noticed, he played inside center for a few games for the Sharks. His kicking is great, but his running is incredible. I for one would love to see him run his lines with feeds from either Goosen or Jantjies.
I’ll never forget him in his breakout season against the Cheetahs where he simply broke the line every time he touched the ball. My point… put Lambie on inside center and move FSteyn to fullback.
17 Sep 2012, 10:28 am
@Pot Blou Gevaar-28:
Unfortunately there are a few John Smit’s in the team… It really does look like JDVs just not up to international standard anymore. You could say its because he’s out of position, but imo he’s just out of form. Could he regain that form to be a quality test player again… Perhaps he should just focus on regaining form next year and compete for the 12 jersey…
Luckily HM said his appointment as captain is just for this season… Luckily he wont have the pressure of dropping his captain and we could see some new talent at 13. Id go for youth and play Jordaan…And have Fourie/JdJ as backup…Especially with Steyn back with the Sharks. Looking forward to seeing Steyn and Jordaan alongside each other!
Appointing a new captain will be another tough call for Meyer. .
17 Sep 2012, 10:28 am
Another guy who is probably one season away from a Bok berth is Ruhle of the Free State. He runs with such intent and commitment, and can step beautifully off both feet.
Plus names like Jordaan (Sharks), Serfontein (Bulls), Kolisi (WP) and Arno Botha (Bulls) – these guys are all a season away from the Bok team, and are real exciting talents. We need a game plan that understands what they offer.
17 Sep 2012, 10:29 am
More Vokkers en Vokkits, Dames en Spektrekkers – the time is now. YES WE CAN.
Soon pretty lekker soentjies from PielNeus shal reign down on you.
Yes my v-riends, I am about to show more shocking scandals of Heyneke Meyer
The GROOT Quessie ‘Waddavok se hy, and to whom’ on the walkie-talkie. Wonder in the dessert nie meer hier – I reveal all. You will loose you breathing, your pulses deurmeklapmuts.
Please, asseblief not view if you boereskaam of sensetiewelikke freaks OK?
NGOZI DANGER GEVAAR
Dont say I didn’t waarsku you, there seriaaaas consequencies. Your eyes shal be opened forever. As jy die blou piele sluk, daar is nooit going back china…. dont click the link.
I have go diep onder now, but will come back met entries for almal
please be pashiont, not long …
17 Sep 2012, 10:31 am
@Jeez-38: I agree. JdV will only be class for me if he acknowledges his own lack of form. He’s always talking about the game plan and the ‘team’ failing to stick to it, but he is one that fails in both attack and defense.
Either play him on inside center or drop him totally. He isn’t a test captain.
17 Sep 2012, 10:32 am
@katman-35: I’m not so sure. Think back 2 weeks ago against Aus, the game still there for the taking but time running out (5 or so minutes left, I think), Goosen got the ball but made yet another nothing kick up the middle of the field. Maybe I’m making too much of it, but was he playing under instruction? We all see him as our most attacking, most all round FH. Why kick then? I think lesiba got it right. HM need to change his mindset and allow our players free reign to play the situation. Now where have I heard that before?
17 Sep 2012, 10:33 am
41, but who else then frans steyn as captain
17 Sep 2012, 10:34 am
I must say it looked like our scrummaging too a stepup as well on the weekend
17 Sep 2012, 10:34 am
@katman-35: Willie le Roux is another one. Formed the core of the Griekwas’ attacks against the Bulls on Saturday.
Also scored a bunch of tries during the S15.
Probably too attacking-orientated for Heyneke but a real talent.
17 Sep 2012, 10:35 am
Why is our best loosehead guthro steenkamp not getting picked is it because he is injured or is it because he is an overseas player,can anybody tell me.
17 Sep 2012, 10:36 am
@katman-39: Rhule does look brisk indeed.
17 Sep 2012, 10:36 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-44: Only until Beast was replaced by Greyling.
17 Sep 2012, 10:36 am
@katman-35:
I think the Schalk ship has sailed, will be very surprised if he comes back as good as years ago.
17 Sep 2012, 10:36 am
45, willie leroux is horsekak on defense
17 Sep 2012, 10:37 am
@DumbSupporter-45: Yes, I like him too. For a running, counter-attacking Cullen/Dagg-like fullback, both he and Coetzee tick all the boxes.
17 Sep 2012, 10:39 am
@Bouts-41:
And its become even more evident that a captain needs to be one of the forwards. Especially at test level. Thats where the game is won or lost. If there is any illegal infringements the ref is more receptive to the captain than to guys shouting ‘sceeeeew’ or ‘holding holding holding!!!!!’ or what ever. And thats where you need to keep the heads cool and calm.
Jeez and the guy looks spent. It was probably not the best idea to appoint one of the oldest players to captain… Im sure Schalk or FDP would probably have been captain. HM didnt have much choice…
17 Sep 2012, 10:39 am
@DumbSupporter-45:
Class player.
Very dangerous when joining the line but arguably more dangerous when directing play.
And a very accurate passer that can add real value to a split offensive line (eg Goosen and Le Roux as first receivers / standoffs on alternative sides of the ruck).
Bok fullbacks for me should be A.Coetzee and W.Le Roux. Taute should focus on 13 and give JPP some opposition there.
I will not select JDV for the EOYT.
17 Sep 2012, 10:42 am
@DumbSupporter-47: Not just quick, though. He seems to read the play well. He knows when it’s on on the outside. He makes good rugby decisions.
17 Sep 2012, 10:42 am
“I refuse to believe Meyer will not get it right. He is a student of the game, a man who instills confidence when talking rugby and a man who appreciates the nuances of the game.”
Well, he could’ve fooled me! A student he may be, but a slow one at that. And he can talk rugby all he likes, the rest of us will judge him on the performance of the team out on the field.
17 Sep 2012, 10:43 am
@Jeez-38:
Agreed.
Thing is, De Villiers is 31yrs (for a backline player), that is getting a bit on. He does not lack endeavor and heart, but his touches and reaction is getting more and more delayed.
Time for JDV to board ship, and sign one last lucrative deal in Japan/ France. He is a loyal servant of Saffa rugby, but I’m afraid his time has come.
17 Sep 2012, 10:44 am
@UptheGuts-55: He is a scholar of the game.
But he also seems to have the urge to prove people wrong.
He will select the gameplan, and he is right – everyone else are wrong.
17 Sep 2012, 10:44 am
Then again what if Schalk’s or FDP’s play arent up to standard… then you sit with the same problem. I hate to say it but maybe Bismark is the answer. Daniel maybe? CJ Stander, if he stayed could have been a great 8 and captain…
17 Sep 2012, 10:45 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-50: Jip not great. I think he makes up with all his other attributes.
17 Sep 2012, 10:46 am
Meyer also dismissed suggestions that Steyn’s poor goal-kicking form meant his overall game had suffered.
“Morné played good rugby at times, even though he didn’t kick so well,” the coach said, “Morné is a player that is mentally very tough and it is just a matter of time before he is back to his best.
“It is my job to get him back to his best and I am confident I will get him back there [to his best].
Meyer has to asming that he has FAILED to get Morne “back to his best” and ship him off to Currie Cup in the same way he dropped daniels, elton and mvovo! we can’t afford to have holy cows in the team anymore!
17 Sep 2012, 10:46 am
@Pot Blou Gevaar-56:
True in a while he might not be offered good deals abroad… He sure as hell wont make it to the next world cup… So why hang around? I wonder when his contract ends with WP…
17 Sep 2012, 10:46 am
willievz – I wonder if Lambie and F Steyn could become a good centre pairing? It is noticeable how JDV seems to be struggling at the moment. I have to agree the captian also should be a forward.
But 13 is a huge problem as i can’t see anyone good enough, barring JFourie of course.
17 Sep 2012, 10:47 am
@willievz-53: Taute has been listed as 15 by HM and possible 13 candidate. Lets hope he comes back from his shoulder injury as strong.
17 Sep 2012, 10:47 am
Bissy must captain Boks in 2013
17 Sep 2012, 10:48 am
I want to see –
JdP
Biz
Guthro
flip
Eben
Brussow
Alberts
Duane
FH
Goose
Hab
FS
JFourie
JPP
Taute
17 Sep 2012, 10:49 am
@Pot Blou Gevaar-56: The backline looked much better when Goosen came on. Hell! We even had a linebreak and came one pass away from scoring if it weren’t for the scrambling by the AB’s. Let’s hope and pray Goosen starts next week and we actualy run the ball. If JdV still ‘under performs’, then your take is justified. For now though, there is a lot of other issues re our backline play than to just lay everything at his feet.
17 Sep 2012, 10:50 am
@race of tan-62: Interesting.
Lambie at 12 could be a very creative option – he is also deceptively strong in contact, which is necessary for setting up a crash ball.
I don’t like the idea of F.Steyn at 13, though. He has disappointed there for the Boks in 2010 (next to JDV at 12…) and is probably a yard of 2 too slow for the position.
I think Taute could become a J.Fourie-type player in the position (also a converted 15), and I do fancy JPP at 13 too (a very special player who I feel should be closer to the action).
17 Sep 2012, 10:51 am
@willievz-53: @katman-54:
Saturday’s game against the Bulls (all be it Currie Cup) was the most influencial contribution by a SA fullback I have seen in a long while.
Adds a totally new dimention to an otherwise sterile Griekwas backline.
17 Sep 2012, 10:53 am
@willievz-53:
Whose your choice as captain if JDV isn’t in the team.
This is definitely going to turn into a major issue when JDV gets the boot.
There’s no senior player that is the best in his position currently in the team that I see will lead us to 2015.
Think this has to be a Graeme Smith type of selection i.e. a youngster that has leadership abilities and is the best in his position.
17 Sep 2012, 10:54 am
@Doughnut-65: Bok team should be
WP NEl
Strauss
Guthro
flip
Eben
Brussow
Potgieter
Duane
FH
Goose
Hab
JDJ
JFourie
JPP
Taute
reserves
Liebenburg
Brok
Kruger
Fourie
Pretorius
MOrne
Kirchner
17 Sep 2012, 10:55 am
@grant10-64: yup … what you reckon my team ? Kick only from FB or FH inside 22 … otherwise its run.
Pens only kicked when team behind on scoreboard otherwise lineout / rolling maul
Swap Coonie for JdP as time passes ..
Chili covers 2,
PatC covers 1and3,
Bekker lock,
Flo/Coetzee loosie,
SarelP sh (not sure here though ..)
JdJ/aplon bline
17 Sep 2012, 10:55 am
@sharks_lover-70: Sorry JPP out , play Aplon
17 Sep 2012, 10:56 am
@sharks_lover-70: Schalk Brits could also add value to the current squad.
17 Sep 2012, 10:57 am
@Jeraldjay-69: Bismarck du Plessis.
17 Sep 2012, 10:57 am
@sharks_lover-70: hehehe .. Strauss over Biz ? No FS ? Kirch .. Morne ? Which Potgeiter ?
17 Sep 2012, 10:58 am
@sharks_lover-70: Lol no guppys?
are you okes sulking?
17 Sep 2012, 10:58 am
williez – I for about JPP. Yes a centre pairing of F Steyn and JPP could be interesting, both big boys, good tacklers, good thinkers!! This would also enable Hougie to stay on the wing, with Habanero on the other
17 Sep 2012, 10:58 am
Some of you are looking in the wrong places for what is wrong with the current Bok team.
Meyer being a fool with selecting players like Dean Greyling, Werner Kruger, Flip van der Merwe, Jacques Potgieter, Morne Steyn, Lwazi Mvovo & Zane Kirchner….
Say what you want about Jean de Villiers… but there isn’t much he can do when Morne offers no threat and uses Frans as a battering-ram.
Meyer needs to take off his goggles. Too many Blue Bulls. How else do you cap probably the worst 2 props to ever play for South Africa in Greyling & Kruger?!…. or Jacques Potgieter for that matter!!!
17 Sep 2012, 11:00 am
all the clever dickie birds waking up SO late in the day
How far back do we have to go to see what was clear as daylight back THEN already..
and some of them only waking up now
Le Roux, Coetsee, Taute, Mapoe, Jordaan, De Jongh, Serfontein, Rhule, Goosen, Jantjies, Hougaard, Van Zyl
You needn’t be a goddamn rocket scientist rugby boffin to SUDDENLY discover the emerging class of all these potential springbok game breakers.. all you needed to do over the past 2 seasons is OPEN up your dumb delusional eyes and it was clear as day since back THEN already..
How come SOME can see the potential IMMEDIATELY and others it takes some failures by the glory boys in green before they recognize talent mushrooming up under their feet?
Now they all rugby boffins.. where were these boffins when these talents were FIRST spotted so long ago already?
17 Sep 2012, 11:00 am
@UptheGuts-55: Agreed! That is such a stupid stubborn statement.
17 Sep 2012, 11:01 am
Difficult to merit certain players, when the pack as a unit performed well – here’s my take…
- Strauss carried ball whole day, played a like a Trojan.
- “very unlikely heroes” in Flip and Doctor Jannie, both lasting the 80mins distance with strong performances.
- Alberts was monstrous (IMHO, he is best utilized from the bench – the balance of Flo @ 6, Coetsee @ 7 gives you a higher work-rate and mobility).
- Vermeulen, as solid as you can be, given his recent return from injury.
- Flo provided solid work on the ground.
As a unit, there was better ruck attendance while actually competing for the ball on the deck, and their better clearance provided good, clean ball to Ruan. Scrumming was steady, especially against a strong All Blacks front row, line-outs was decent, etc.
17 Sep 2012, 11:01 am
@willievz-57: If that is true, then we can look forward to some more heartache. HM can ill afford his stubborness. Kick chase with zero creativity at the back have been tried over the last 8 years or so with minimal success! If he is a scholar like you and keo suggest, why do we persist with it? The player that made the kick-chase game work is now playing in Japan. Since then PdV and now HM wants to re-thread Hougaard and Pienaar in the FdP mould. And it’s just not working
17 Sep 2012, 11:02 am
What role is Rassie playing in the current bok setup?
He sat with Heyneke in the booth during the games against England. Surely, they are chatting about Morne, Zane and the kicking game.
Of wat?
17 Sep 2012, 11:02 am
Meyer needs to buck-up and realize where he’s gone wrong.
- Bring in Gurthro Steenkamp
- Find someone capable of playing 5-lock. Give Bekker one last chance against Australia. Kruger a soft touch and not great in the line-outs.
- Bring Brussow back. Stop using excuses to ignore him.
- Drop Morne NOW!
- Sort out the back-3. If I see Mvovo again, I’m going to cry.
17 Sep 2012, 11:02 am
who the hell is Chilli..chilli who?
17 Sep 2012, 11:03 am
I think your right..unfortunately
17 Sep 2012, 11:03 am
@DumbSupporter-68: I have been calling for Willie Le Roux to be made a bok since the third game of the Super Rugby season. The guy has class written all over him!
17 Sep 2012, 11:03 am
@Pot Blou Gevaar-81:
The coaching staff should take a lot of credit for this. They fixed problems and the forwards came on top. Only if the backs can be trained to become dangerous on attack….
17 Sep 2012, 11:04 am
@Transformation-76: No we just want our players to be removed as any rugby talent they had is being farked up by HM
17 Sep 2012, 11:04 am
@Transformation-60: JDV on Morne, admitting he is only on the field of play for his (goal) kicking:
“I don’t think that I am the one to give advice about goal kicking. We discussed it at half time and we felt that we might want to give Ruan an opportunity but we thought to give Morne one more chance. He had one when we scored the try and he went off after that,” said De Villiers.
17 Sep 2012, 11:05 am
After Saturday I think the team needs minor adjustments for the home leg:
- F Steyn to fullback in place of Kirchner
- JDV to 12 and JdJ to 13
- Goosen to 10
- Marcelle to 7 and Alberts to the bench
- Etsebeth to become a 5 lock and replace Kruger with Bekker on the bench
On the bench:
- Greyling to club rugby and Cilliers on the bench ( if fit)
- Chilliboy as the reserve hooker
- Bekker and Alberts to complete forward reserves
- Jantjies, Lambie and JP Pietersen ( re-intro after injury)
For the EOYT I will wave JDV goodbye forever.
17 Sep 2012, 11:06 am
Keo you are more naive than I thought. The 1st thing he did was install the Bulls entire coaching & management team. None of them have international experience & none of them make any contribution as far as I can see. All I see is Meyer ranting and raving on his radio. Pulling Beast & playing Greyling was suicidal. What the hell was Best doing that brought that on??? He was having his best game in months.
17 Sep 2012, 11:06 am
@willievz-53: Pity you didn’t apply for back line coach
but then most ‘kenners’ here are able to notice what works and who ticks which box.. strange that the brightest kenner of them all, the national coach, still remains rather blinded by some other blue eyed malady no matter what.
17 Sep 2012, 11:06 am
@Transformation-76: MMMM we dont need to sulk
we farked up WP AGAIN 
5-1 for the year??
17 Sep 2012, 11:07 am
How did Jaco Taute fare when he got on for the Lions?
He’d make a good centre if we were looking at moving Frans to fullback for a couple of games.
17 Sep 2012, 11:08 am
I dont know what your facination with lambie is? Jantjies is 10 times the player lambie and steyn are..hes proved it over the years as well, he kicks out of hand brilliantly, hardly ever misses the poles, takes the ball flat and gets over the gain line almsot all the time, tackles way above his weight class, all of this in a loosing lions team! Imagine him with a powerful springboks pack.. Hes man of the match most week ends! and on top of it all he makes up the colour quotas!
17 Sep 2012, 11:08 am
@willievz-90:
what kicking???
17 Sep 2012, 11:09 am
Guys
Forget about replacing individual players.
Why can we not setup up numerous phases on attack. If the ball is not kicked away, we loose it or get penalised.
The team is struggling to build up momentum with quick ball.
This is a major concern.
17 Sep 2012, 11:09 am
@hendrikp-78:
By saying that, you’re discounting the fact that JDV has been underperforming in any event for the Stromers also.
No Morne Steyn there, you have Peter Grant who plays a lot flatter.
The Stormers probably had on average, the best pack of forwards in this years comp., with players like Etsebeth, Kolisi, Kitshoff, Elstadt, et al – all of them performing week in, week out.
And yet, with all the quality ball their backs received, they could not buy a try – about all of their victories based on forwards dominance, an un-yielding defence being strong at the point of contact.
17 Sep 2012, 11:09 am
@willievz-90:
Wow i dont think your kicker should be given more chances after failing in the first half. Some bad decision making from Jean…
17 Sep 2012, 11:09 am
@fitz1ella-93: Skop,
If I was the backline coach, I would be doing nothing!
Van Graan, the forwards coach, is the attack coach!!
17 Sep 2012, 11:10 am
@monkeyballs-96: Let us know when you wake up from that dream ur having,
17 Sep 2012, 11:10 am
@DumbSupporter-83: I havent seen Rassie around the Bok set up for a while now.
17 Sep 2012, 11:12 am
@DumbSupporter-98: Very good post.
We don’t know what to do with ball in hand.
No support lines in wide channels.
17 Sep 2012, 11:13 am
@willievz-101: Did the assistant coaches also get 4 year contracts? If HM learns from his mistakes and realize that the boks need a more balance with attack he cant admit that Loubscher is the best backline coach to make the backs world beaters….
17 Sep 2012, 11:14 am
@fitz1ella-79: Shut up, fool. You’re simply a regurgitator of opinion. You assimilate, rearrange, insert expletives and pass this off as some kind of visionary insight. These threads are full enough already. Do me a favour and shove your secondhand ramblings up your bumbum. There’s a good boy.
17 Sep 2012, 11:16 am
@Jeez-105: No idea.
But it was very clear from the outset that HM wanted to surround himself with people prescribing and bowing to his philosophy, rather than specific technical experts that can challenge existing thinking.
HM is the boss, and will not allow himself to be challenged. He knows best. He is sold on a particular rugby ideology.
The appointment of Van Graan, the Bulls CEO’s son, smells funny.
17 Sep 2012, 11:16 am
@Stormtrooper-92: the bulls ‘ineperienced” management were not heyneke’s 1st choices, he wanted AC as his asstnt but AC refused, probably nienaber too as the defence coach and when pushed between a rock and a hard place, chose the guys he’s worked with before…
he could’ve picked brendan venterand hawies fourie as his assts
17 Sep 2012, 11:18 am
@Transformation-108:
Do you seriously believe he wanted AC, or was that just spin or a bridge building exercise?
Sure, he approached AC to find out if he was available, but that does not mean he would have appointment him…
17 Sep 2012, 11:19 am
this sharks team can play against the boks and prolly win
well we can bring back one or 2 ex sharks playing elsewhere.
1 JDP
2 Bissy
3 Beast
4 Mostert
5 Bresler
6 Coetzee
7 Alberts
8 Kanko
9 Pienaar
10 Lambie
11 Mvovo
12 Fransie
13 Jordaan
14 JPP
15 Ludick
16 Burden
17 Herbst/Cilliers
18 Jandre
19 Deysel
20 DAniel
21 Reinach/Mcleod
22 Bosman/Whitehead/Viljoen/Odwa
JUst get PIenaar to stop kicking everything away that he was now forced to play by HM
17 Sep 2012, 11:19 am
@willievz-107: Van Graan has been around for a while at least and was part of the Bull’s past success… I dont know much of Loubscher’s credentials, but there must surely be guys like Eddie Jones that can inspire much more from the backs. The probably dont have the same contract, as the head coach normally have the power to fire his assistants…
17 Sep 2012, 11:21 am
@willievz-107: Dont forget the useless quota backline coach the boks have,
17 Sep 2012, 11:22 am
LOL varkies are out in full force now suddenly because the Goose has 10 all on his own and fullback is looking good with Coetzee and Le Roux pushing hard now the Lambster is a centre.
17 Sep 2012, 11:23 am
@sharks_lover-110: Oops, i forgot the new super star lock we have at the Sharks
PSDT
17 Sep 2012, 11:24 am
@RL-113: Pray rell who said Lambie is now a center?? it was BOUTS, he s no Sharks supporter
17 Sep 2012, 11:24 am
@willievz-109:
Think you are 100% correct with your spin theory , AC had also just signed a new 3 yr deal with the Stormers !
17 Sep 2012, 11:25 am
What is perplexing is every man and his dog can see that Morne offers nothing from the 10 channel, has no pace of the mark, rarely takes the ball flat etc I could go on. So if that is the case and Heyneke wants to keep playing him, which I do not agree with, why not get a fullback that can distribute. Look at how the Griquas/FS use Willie Le Roux, or the All blacks Dagg as a sort of floating distributer, who can pop up at 10 or any other point in the backline to inject speed and precision passing. If he is going to persist with Morne at 10 (hopefully not but I wouldnt hold my breath) why not get a distributing 15 – Lambie, Le Roux, Coetzee.
17 Sep 2012, 11:29 am
Current Players who must start:
Goosen
Lambie
Players we need back in the mix ASAP:
Bismarck
Steenkamp
Brussouw
JP Pietersen
Fourie
Players we should add to the mix:
Jordaan
Taute
Players who are not up to it anymore:
Kirchner
Morne Steyn
De Villiers
17 Sep 2012, 11:30 am
@katman-106: fuckoff you little moronic toss box deluxe.. you little fuckwit prick SUDDENLY the goddamn know it all about which player ticks all the boxes.. If anyone is a regurgitating MORON you tick that Box First and Foremost.
Pisswilly little moron that thinks he’s such a rugby boffin while he’s no more than a pathetic moron ditty singer with his babyfaced groupies up his arse
17 Sep 2012, 11:32 am
Rassie and Heyneke probably had a fallout over selections or strategy or something.. the my way or the high way baas and Rassie couldn’t see eye to eye so Rassie said ciao and Heyneke said don’t slam the door on your way out.
17 Sep 2012, 11:33 am
@fitz1ella-119: HAve a kitkat
17 Sep 2012, 11:37 am
@fitz1ella-119: The only reason I call you out on your phony opinions is because EVERY SINGLE first post of yours on a thread always alludes to everyone else seemingly knowing fokkol while Skoppie the Great was born with some kind of rugby visionary gift. Every first post of yours. There’s some really fcked up psychology at work there, pal. Have it seen to, asap. Mentally, you’re not on a happy path.
17 Sep 2012, 11:37 am
@willievz-104: We’re too predictable. In everything we do. As soon as Alberts or one of the other heavies go stand in the backline, everyone knows he is going to take the ball up. Defenses re-align accordingly which result in either slow ball, a turnover or penalty. My take is they should just give the damn ball to Goosen and let him decide what he wants to do. Hougaard or Pienaar should pass to anyone else as a variation. Right now, that is our go-to play almost every ball from a ruck. Why we find it difficult to croos the adv line too. Too damn predictable!!!
17 Sep 2012, 11:41 am
The only place Kruger struggled was in the lineouts, and lineouts are a team effort – throwing, jumping, lifting and at the same time out smartin the opposition. We need time to build a formidable partnership with our locks and they in turn need to get use to our hookers throwing (keep in mind the loss we have had in this department) and lifting can also improve. Due to the young partnership at lock it is obviously a part of our game that the AB targeted – because they now it’s a new lock pairing and that we setup plays from nice clean lineout balls. Flip played much better than before and no penalties which is a plus, but I do feel that Etzebeth was missed I think he would of thrived on Saturday. I like Bekker as super sub but I do feel inspite of Krugers struggles in the lineouts that he was subbed maybe just 10min to early. He made 1 crucial turnover and played a large role in creating another 2 with a beautiful pressure tackle from an kick-off and hitting a ruck on halfway. He also did a great job once at fighting his way through the middle of an AB maul and snatching the ball carrier at the back to produce a turnover. He also did a great job at guiding our own mauls. The subbing of Kruger, Beast and Alberts came just a little too early our scrum subsequently struggle after the subs and our forward dominance was less. Like I told you all last week we were in for a great surprise this weekend, Meyer has a good head, knows what he is doing. His only real mistake is sticking to Steyn, but as you can see he has openly admitted to his mistake and i think from here on forward Goosen will most likely be selected. Meyer is building a formidable bok unit that will soon slaughter all in their path including the AB. So all you nagging critical Saffer might want to think about getting behind your team and coach, especially our WP boys that are so quick to point to racism, and provincialism without ever mentioning that their beloved Cappie JDV is also currently one of the Boks weakest links.
17 Sep 2012, 11:45 am
@fitz1ella-120: SPOT ON Skop, en I got video evidence – dan kan ons praat.
@sharks_lover-121: watchit steekseeker, ne?
17 Sep 2012, 11:45 am
@willievz-109: SARU (jurie roux) approached AC after being handed a list by Meyer…i can only take it as genuine!
17 Sep 2012, 11:49 am
Meyer will lose because he will consistently doubt players like Elton Jantjies and give the benefit of the doubt to the Morne Steyns of this world.
He is not malicious; it’s just the way he sees the world.
Meyer’s style is ‘verkramp’ ; playing to our traditional strengths is a lame excuse and cannot work.
Meyer en sy boere laat boer ons agteruit.
17 Sep 2012, 11:51 am
i think AC should have been coach and meyer his understudy…after WC2015 appoint meyer as head & get a new 2ic…this should be the succession plan going 4ward….meyer surrounded himself with useless buggers
17 Sep 2012, 11:51 am
@lieflingblou-124: Coenie as the super-sub in the frontrow. Marcell in the loosies and once JPP is fit, Hougie to add value off the bench on the wing. I agree, apart from Bekker we’ve lost impetus with the others coming on. Greyling jou moer!!!
17 Sep 2012, 11:56 am
The fact that we were still competitive in spite of Greyling’s incredible ambush is heartening.
Also felt that Meyer got the timing of his subs completely wrong. The pack was doing fine well into the second half. Our scrum was dominant, the lineout was functioning and we more than held our own at the rucks. The backline was crying out for an injection of change. And yet his first two subs were in the tight 5, leaving our plodding backs to fck all the possession up.
17 Sep 2012, 11:56 am
@lieflingblou-124: Meyer is nearly there – Bissy, Coenie and Cilliers will add to the front row depth. At lock Meyer would do well to bring in Ruan Botha who is destined to replace Bekker (the brokeback for real) at the WP and for the Boks. Bring in Brussow and Burger and forget about Spies and Potgieter then suddenly the pack will start to look very good.
17 Sep 2012, 11:58 am
Insofar as Zane Kirchner is concerned. If you are not a threat to the All Blacks (which should be the only benchmark) then you should not wear the Green and Gold. Zane is a journeyman and offers nothing other than some stability in catching and kicking. At least Gio Aplon can beat his man (and a few others) and has a solid kicking and tackling game. Our scrummies also ask no questions around the fringes. Perhaps time to give Janno Vermaak a run? Or send him back to The Bulls if he is never going to get an opportunity. Our obsession with replicating Fourie Du Preez, will have only one effect. He will be convinced to come back and will forever tarnish his legacy. Let us hope this does not happen.
17 Sep 2012, 12:00 pm
Bring back Mallet!
17 Sep 2012, 12:02 pm
Had to laugh – Supersport – a leading Saffa website claims that “The All Blacks line-out headaches of earlier years re-emerged” and that “SA dominated NZ in the line out”. Who writes this claptrap – match stats show NZ lost only 2 lineouts against the throw whereas SA lost 5!
Reminds me of Daan Retief a leading SA journalist who indignantly claimed that NZ poached Jonah Lomu and Michael Jones – Daan failed to acknowledge that they were both born in Auckland and grew up in Auckland. Journalism standards terrible.
17 Sep 2012, 12:05 pm
Daar het ons dit nou….ek het amper al my hare uit my kop uit getrek. Eks jammer, maar as Heyneke nie die volgende 2 wedstryde in SA teen die Ausies en die Kiwi’s kan wen nie dan moet hy gepos word. Skop en jaag skop en jaag en weer verdedig hy sy spel patroon na Saterdag en weer kom hy op vir Morne Steyn! Hoe kan hy so hardkoppig wees??? Hy grawe tans sy eie graf…..
Ek wou nie glo dat hy n tipiese bul afrigter sou wees en net ‘sy’ manne kies nie. Ek wou nie glo dat hy stampkar rugby sou speel nie. Ek wou ook nie glo dat hy 10man rugby sou speel met sy ‘generaal’ wat alles beheer met die skopskoen nie. Maar nou ja, daar het ons dit. Eens n bloubul, altyd n bul. Ek (en baie ander) raak nou vinnig gatvol vir die spul.
Kyk maar net na die Currie Cup bul span en hulle spel patroon…presies dieselfde as die bokke. En waar vind hulle hulself? Heel onder gegrond op die log.
Bring vir Mallet terug asb. Hy sal stilbly oor die kaartjies die keer.
17 Sep 2012, 12:06 pm
anyone made mention of the fact that our front row (with beast there) were simply awesome vs the vaunted ab pack?
hell that irish dimwit couldnt call a lunch break correctly and practically every engage was early by both sides but the boks had the better of the abs in this facet imo.
maybe it was even and i am just being biased but in no way was it slanted towards the abs that much was clear.
in fact our pack is looking good and with coenie, pat, eben and maybe brussow coming back into contention we are looking like a powerhouse upfront.
it only counts if the 10 isnt standing 40m back though because as much as frans is critiscised for bashing it up, he has no choice when morne passes the ball to him 38m behind the advantage line.
and one last thing…..SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAARKSSSSSSSSS!!!!!
17 Sep 2012, 12:07 pm
@RL-131:
Ruan Botha? You’re kidding me.
What’s the guy done to warrant being talked about as a Springbok?
Pieter Steph du Toit isn’t there yet and he’s miles ahead of Botha.
Ideally we’ll see an Eben Etzebeth & Pieter Steph du Toit combination in the next few years… hoping one comes through as a genuine 4 jumper.
17 Sep 2012, 12:08 pm
@rangerman-136: More or less what I said in 130.
17 Sep 2012, 12:09 pm
@UptheGuts-129: Yes indeed Coenie is a major loss and it has been felt in our frontrow. Bekker I think will still be very valuable for the boks as a super sub 30-20min a game and he can inject real pace and experience. But on that note they need to make sure and put in a lot of work to get him right to do that at full strength.
17 Sep 2012, 12:10 pm
My ideal back line, injury & overseas-based players permitting.
Dis mos nou ‘n backline wat 4 driee kan druk? Ons kan darem nie aangaan soos die naweek nie, magtag man.
15. Lambie
14. JPP
13. J. Fourie
12. F. Steyn
11. Habana
10. Goosen
9. Sarel
Reserves/Impact players
Hougaard
Pienaar/Vermaak
Taute/Aplon
17 Sep 2012, 12:12 pm
@hendrikp-137: Agreed Ruan Botha had a terrible time in the Junior World Cup – it was the worst Boks lineout I had ever seen. Pieter Steph Du Toit can become a great future player for filling the shoes of Danie Roussow he has done well at flank for the sharks and shows good power in the secondrow.
17 Sep 2012, 12:12 pm
Pos hierdie bloubul afrigter na Tswane asb.
17 Sep 2012, 12:13 pm
There are many wonderful facets of SA rugby. In earlier years we had Northern SA and Southern SA, Afrikaner and English, on a political front the Nats and the Sappe, which now, have been replaced as follows: Northern SA, Southern SA, Amateur vs Professional, political lines – no doubt they exist, Afrikaner vs English (and other dynamics nowadays as well). Point is, when these factions do not pull to badly in opposite directions from time-to-time, we actually get it right sometimes. That is why have have two world cups. Unfortunately, with this multi-dynamism in our game, these opposing forces often hamper us. Whilst Meyer is a student of the game, he is unable to break out of this mould and I doubt whether he has the intellectual capability to harness these opposing forces in our game. At the moment, the limitations of his culture, being an Afrikaner is getting the better of his abilities to get it pulling together. Every one of his Northern fringe selections and conservative mindset (part of the Afrikaner culture) have backfired on him. The sooner he rids him of these shackles, the quicker he will see results.
17 Sep 2012, 12:13 pm
@Delki-134: True but that 1 botched lineout near your line speaks volumes. Hang around ’till our locks find their feet. They’re still concerned with winning their own ball. Once the combination between hooker, jumper and lifter clicks and is settled, they’ll start concentrating on stealing your ball.
17 Sep 2012, 12:15 pm
@willievz-104:
Jip, very sad indeed.
That is why I think Harry Viljoen’s experiment of forcing the Boks to keep ball in hand all those years ago against (a much weaker) Argentinia was really inspired.
Why is it that many teams can retain possession against us for minutes on end, but we struggle to keep it for more than a few seconds.
Part of the problem is our focus on long-range penalties. We missed 3 from 4 of those on Saturday. Surely, in some of those cases you should kick for the corner flag from where you score or get an easier penalty?
17 Sep 2012, 12:15 pm
@hendrikp-137: you talk kak – Botha was the starting no.5 lock for the baby Boks while PSTD only made it onto the field because of an injury at flank.
17 Sep 2012, 12:16 pm
I want to add my support to bring back Nick Mallett.
The older Mallett will hopefully approach things differently. He is the best we have right now.
2 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses – it is clear we are not going to move forward with this guy at the helm.
The only Afrikaner coach I’m prepared to give a go is Rassie Erasmus; the rest simply don’t understand the dynamics of a new SA/diversity.
Most people are concerned with WHAT Meyer is doing wrong; I’m concerned about WHY he is doing it. Why does Meyer have faith in an aggressive boer like Greyling? Why does he keep a Morne Steyn there who is clearly not deliverying? WHY?
It’s because of his subconscious beliefs. To try and camouflage it by saying ‘our strengths etc’ is absolutely rubbish. Who is the ‘our or us’ he is referring to?
I would pull him before the EoY tour.
17 Sep 2012, 12:18 pm
@katman-130: spot on… to my amazement we apparently had more possession (even with the three stooges kicking our ball away) and territory and won the breakdown battle…
17 Sep 2012, 12:22 pm
@Delki-134: dan retief, not daan…
17 Sep 2012, 12:24 pm
My understanding is that both Hawies and AC did not want to become involved with the Boks, Hawies because of the timing and AC because he wanted to build on the work at WP.
As much as I liked JdV against the Poms and think 13 is his best position, I no longer think he is up to being a first choice in the Bok side. He needs to make way.
Changes: Hougaard needs to be given free reign to play his game at 9; if not, Pienaar should be freed up to play his natural quick game. Goosen, Jantjies and Lambie for 10. Someone else for 13. Lambie as first choice 15 with a suitable backup.
Oh and a new attack coach.
17 Sep 2012, 12:24 pm
@DumbSupporter-145: Long range penalties acts as a demoraliser to the opposition who know they cannot transgress within a certain distance. It also keeps the scoreboard ticking over.
17 Sep 2012, 12:26 pm
@Sheriff-147: Something tells me you know the answer to WHY? Subconscious beliefs? Have the conviction to call a spade by its name mate.
17 Sep 2012, 12:28 pm
@katman-138: you shouted SHAAAAAAARKS??
i see snoeky is exhibiting a bit of a god complex in his exchanges with you talking about “earning the right to sit at MY table”
bwaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
i had the misfortune of knowing someone who spoke just like that and he was a drunk wife abuser, i kid you not.
it was scary how screwed up his mind was.
now i am not saying snoekums is either of those things but he did display some pretty bent ideas in his replies to you.
seriaas.
17 Sep 2012, 12:32 pm
Sorry bok fans, but ABs, unlikely to lose in Argentina. The argies are only a 60 minute side, as they showed in their last 3 games. That isn’t good enough to beat this AB team.
With the RC sewn up, Hansen is likely to make a few changes in soccer city. The ABs usually drop off once a series is won, whereas the bios will be desperate to win. So I think the boks are likely to win a close game.
17 Sep 2012, 12:34 pm
@Pietie-143: a lot of afrikaners are actually more progressive than their counterparts in other cultures in sa.
i will give you three examples:
1. jan smuts : with Nelson, the most internationally recognised sa leader. he was a member of the imperial war council and founded his own school of psychology.
2. Beyer Naude : an enlightened man who paid dearly for having clarity of thought and conviction in a time of opression.
3. The Cullart people of the WC, hell the early afrikaners were happy to get it on!
17 Sep 2012, 12:34 pm
@rangerman-153: He’s just a whacked out old man. Two steps away from harassing people at traffic lights with his Vision.
17 Sep 2012, 12:35 pm
@UptheGuts-144: Agreed and they will find their feet, synergy wont come over night, throwing, jumping, lifting and reading your opposition all play a role and a lineout is a team effort well the forwards effort collectively – I have faith in our locks. Juandre and Etzebeth need to continue building their partnership and Flip and Andries are both experienced campaigners to add as power subs.
It’s unreasonable to think we can replace a lock partnership of Bakkies and Matfield and Danie Roussow as a utility over night.
17 Sep 2012, 12:35 pm
@hendrikp-78: Did you see what a great game Flip had on Saturday? Give him his dues? Even the scrum was stronger with Flip locking the scrum.
17 Sep 2012, 12:36 pm
@Sheriff-147: the rainbow nation
17 Sep 2012, 12:37 pm
the critique of the kick and chase approach is wholly maligned and actually a bit hysterical actually.
every other side in world rugby does it and it actually led to a fair bit of front foot ball on sat when it was ACCURATE (see, caps lock to make my point even)
its just that ruan was woefully inaccurate with the approach and added to mornes 40m buffer from defenders, it isnt working.
morne had the chance, the poor oke needs to be dropped and try work his way back in when he is confident again because at the moment he is so mindfucked about being dropped that he cant actually play the game.
17 Sep 2012, 12:39 pm
AshSplash smashed…
England back Chris Ashton suffered minor injuries after he was attacked by a stranger during a night out in London.
The 25-year-old was with Saracens team-mates, their wives and girlfriends, before someone unknown to them approached the group and started arguing with the 25-year-old.
“A brief altercation occurred, which resulted in a friend of this stranger attacking Chris Ashton with a glass. The Saracens winger suffered two minor cuts on the left side of his face, but neither required stitches,” a statement read.
Edward Griffiths, CEO of Saracens, added: “Since arriving at the club, Chris has proved himself an outstanding member of the Saracens family, on and off the field. It is a reality that well-known sports people are provoked by strangers and subsequent events are instantly tweeted.
“People will inevitably see this story and say an England rugby player is in trouble again. For clarity, Chris Ashton is not in trouble at all. On the contrary, he was celebrating an anniversary with his girlfriend and showed admirable restraint.”
17 Sep 2012, 12:40 pm
@Khoi-158: The thing is, he now needs to back it up! Everyone agrees, he had his best game in a Bok jersey. So no slipping back into obscurity/mediocrity. That is what he should bring every game.
17 Sep 2012, 12:41 pm
@rangerman-155:
That’s two examples, but since when has a high libido been an indication of progressive thought.
What about the other 2.95 million?
17 Sep 2012, 12:41 pm
@corporal punishment-154: ‘The ABs usually drop off once a series is won’
Getting excuses in early?
17 Sep 2012, 12:43 pm
It now makes sense why Meyer didnt want to play a fetcher. By sorting out the breakdown on Sat, the rest of our gameplan was heavily exposed.
PS Meyer: Fourie dp was a freak and the reason your old gameplan worked
17 Sep 2012, 12:43 pm
Loosehead: If Meyer isn’t going to select Steenkamp, then he needs to find some depth in the position. Mtawarira is adequate at times, but his workrate drops off when the going gets tough & we definitely need someone like Steenkamp who can produce HUGE performances. Coenie offers a good option off the bench, but not really a starting option at present, if only because of some dodgy scrummaging at times.
Tighthead: Definitely need to settle on a deputy behind Jannie… and someone that can push him hard. Malherbe or Cilliers? Just stop including Werner Kruger PLEASE!!!
Locks: Need to find a solid locking partner alongside Etzebeth, and preferably turn the guy into a 5-lock. He’s got the athletic ability… played their in the Under-20′s, and the more mongrel we can get into the pack, the better. If we can get both him and Pieter Steph du Toit playing 5 (taking over the line-out responsbilities) for their respective franchises we’d be in a great position.
Loosies: Needs to sort this out asap. We looked good against NZ, but casting Brussow aside has and will continue to hamper the side. Also needs to find an alternative number-8. I’m thinking Arno Botha if he can limit the injuries.
Scrumhalf: Bring back Fourie du Preez. I’ve always loved the guy. Best scrumhalf to ever play the game IMO. Ruan Pienaar as his deputy… or continue with Ruan if Fourie du Preez isn’t up for it.
Flyhalf: Hands Goosen the keys and watch him prosper.
Centres: See if Jaque Fourie can keep himself physically fit. Otherwise, see what Jaco Taute looks like at test level. We need someone physical and dangerous with ball in hand in that 13 jersey. Frans Steyn stays at 12.
Wingers: Get rid of Mvovo asap. Limited options but can find something that works… and next time he needs a winger, take a look at Aplon ahead of someone who won’t even bother taking a high ball.
Fullback: Similarly to the wing, we are seriously lacking here.
17 Sep 2012, 12:44 pm
@katman-156:
i believe so too.
Pietie, further to my dissertation on afrikaners i cite the transformation within 100 years of ze german people.
world war one had the same effect on them as the boer war, dispossesion has an effect that is generational much like our black brothers and sistas.
ze germans were one of europes most outthere people in berlin at least, before hitler got his hooks into them, tapping into discntent at the treatment of ze germans by the allied nations at versailles.
world wr two blah blah fast forward and once again, many germans are enlightened and viewed as incredibly progressive (many, not all ze germans of course).
same goes for the afrikaners though they never had berlin before ze war scenarios.
i dont believe any of meyers failings so far should casually be attributed to his culture or race much the same as the aspersions cast on divvy in the same light were wrong.
but take that frikken walkie away quickly!
17 Sep 2012, 12:45 pm
@Big Hit-164:
I thought you believed in teams trying new combinations, you know preparing for the RWC?
Or is that your excuse when you lose?
17 Sep 2012, 12:45 pm
@rangerman-160: imo kick n chase as a tactic has its merits BUT it cannot be the only tactic our flyhalf/fullback uses…this makes us very predictable to defend against especially on days when we’re not dominating the collisions… we need more guile, we need more 1st phase attack like the one that led to habana’s try! the fact that bryan finished it off well masks the lack of support runners on his shoulder, if he’d been tackled he would’ve been turned over for sure.
we need more guile and innovation executed at high pace and with accuracy!
17 Sep 2012, 12:46 pm
@cane-163: well if it was consensual than it was a damn sight better than the other scenario caner.
17 Sep 2012, 12:47 pm
Something is amiss.
According to most we played great rugby against a “mediocre Aussie side,” / “the worst Aussie side in years” last week and we still lost.
This past Saturday, we played our best game of the year for 80 minutes against a All Black team that played poorly and we still lost.
What am I missing?
Do we now have to play extraordinary well to beat these two sides?… and do they have to even play kakker than they did for us to beat them?
17 Sep 2012, 12:47 pm
@rangerman-160: Every other side actualy run the ball every now and then too. We don’t. We try to but we’re stuttering at the moment. Hence our kick-chase game looks more like last resort. Is it too much to ask to vary the inevitable kick with dynamic backplay? I don’t think so
17 Sep 2012, 12:48 pm
My goodness, the other six people who voted like me on today’s poll must also all be Aussie supporters!!!
17 Sep 2012, 12:48 pm
@151 mikeybrass: I agree with DS, the kicking conditions were difficult, the boks would have done better with a lineout on the AB 22. The bok maul was making easy metres, and stood a good chance of creating either try scoring situations or kickable penalties for pulling the maul down.
I don’t think the long range kicks do demoralise the abs, particularly when you miss. But even when u kick a penalty, we can score straight back – the dagg try being a case in point.
17 Sep 2012, 12:50 pm
@Transformation-169: agree completely transie and this is why i still believe the failing of morne is not simply his missed kicks on sat, it goes far deeper than that.
its his lack of attacking nous and unwillingness to attack the gainline that irks me the most because it isnt even him doing the kick chase half the time but rather ruan who got it spectacularly wrong on a number of occasions.
17 Sep 2012, 12:52 pm
@Hurricane-168: ‘s
When England lost the Scotland a few years back, I remember Biggles blaming the moist soil of Murrayfield for the loss.
Saying this did not allow the BIG English juggernauts to get traction.
Stodders (a truely great poster here on Keo) a Scottie, was not impressed.
17 Sep 2012, 12:54 pm
@mikeybrass-151:
I agree.
However, taking a pot at poles each time you get awarded a penality in the “long range” area is not optimal.
Sometimes a better alternative would be to go for the lineout and put on the pressure. On Saturday we had a 25% success rate with these penalties. Handing over possession in 75% of the cases.
Just looking for some balance.
17 Sep 2012, 12:54 pm
@cane-176: I ‘moist soil’
it was monsoon!
17 Sep 2012, 12:54 pm
@rangerman-155:
Cullard people are Afrikaners?
17 Sep 2012, 12:55 pm
Meyer is a TWIT
He has the same brain capacity as PDV
Too scared to bring in the new players.
SA is in the same position as 2004
We have a world cup winning under 20 team
Goosen and JJ should be playing and there are so many brilliant forwards
in that team
Dont hold your breath cos Heyneke is DOM
17 Sep 2012, 12:55 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-173:
8 now Bumby.
Kiwi tight five getting in behind you lot.
17 Sep 2012, 12:57 pm
@171 Nama: the boks were better than the AB’s in some facets of play, but the abs were better in other facets. The Aussies have beaten you in 7 out of 8 of your last games with a less physical pack than yours. Why/how? Because they have higher skill levels in their backs and forwards than you, and they play to that strength whilst trying to minimise their weakness in the tight exchanges.
The Abs got two try scoring chances on Saturday, and took them both you. You had 4 and took 1. That’s the skill gap.
17 Sep 2012, 12:57 pm
@Big Hit-178:
Monsoon or not……………………………………….Stodders was not amused.
And nor should he be.
17 Sep 2012, 12:57 pm
@Sheriff-147: Completely agree, would be an inspired change. 17 on the trot was extremely impressive and with such a talented bunch, would probably be his goal to improve on
17 Sep 2012, 12:57 pm
@cane-176:
lol
Thats right, it was raining excuse.
That was a classic.
17 Sep 2012, 13:00 pm
Jantjies must feel seriously robbed this season
17 Sep 2012, 13:01 pm
@nama1-171: hey, the coach sabotaged us first by no pulling off msteyn @ half-time, 2ndly by pulling off beast who wasn’t look fatigued or under pressure (maybe beast was still under punishment for his shoulder check on beale that landed him in the bin)
if jean as the captain is not empowered to make decisions on the field like changing kickers what is he the cappie for? greyling comes on and he
s already messing, what about a huddle from the cappie to say “manne we’ve got an opportunity to beat the world champs at home here let’s not blow it with dom decisions, you forward manne sterkte ouens, mooi bly but no unnecessary hands in rucks or niggle, LET’S GO GET THEM”
17 Sep 2012, 13:05 pm
@rangerman-175: the scary part for me is that if msteyn had got all his kicks or most like @ Newlands meyer wouldn’t SEE anything wrong with the bloke!
he said as much last week, when quizzed by nz journos about morne’s positioning, saying morne’s game is perfect and it’s just his kicking that needs work
i mean what the feck!
17 Sep 2012, 13:05 pm
@Transformation-169:
“we need more guile and innovation executed at high pace and with accuracy!”
Meyer and his followers will tell you that it is there but that it is not “executed at high pace and with accuracy!” by the players
Good point about the lack of support runners for Habana’s try.
Strange how just one change (Flo for Coetzee) made such a huge difference in the performance of the forwards. Now, if he will start Coetzee and let Alberts loose with 25-30 minutes left on the clock, our chances of winning the last two games will improve even more.
Btw, I’m not saying that Alberts did not play well. I just believe that he will be even more effective playing against some tired legs when he is still fresh.
17 Sep 2012, 13:07 pm
@Hurricane-185:
Scotland in winter. What was Bigglies expecting?
17 Sep 2012, 13:08 pm
@rangerman-160: I dunno fella. I think your posts would have more impact if you had some italics or bold in them.
Just saying
17 Sep 2012, 13:12 pm
Meyer deserves to be fired if he cannot win both games at home (and something tells me that it is a destinct possibility)
17 Sep 2012, 13:13 pm
@Transformation-188: If Morne slots all his kicks, Meyer and the JOURNOS will see nothing wrong.
Didn’t Morne get MOM against the Argies at Newlands? For doing his job?
17 Sep 2012, 13:14 pm
@cane-181: Make that 9 now Cane/Brumby
us antipodeans have to “get the japies” after all
17 Sep 2012, 13:14 pm
@Transformation-187:
Transie, we dominated the All Blacks for big parts of the game on Saturday like we dominated the Aussies for 60 minutes the week before like we dominated the Aussies for 80 minutes in the 1/4 final of the RWC last year.
We lost all the above mentioned matches.
Why?
Difference in skill level as as Corporal Punishment says? Absolutely YES.
Dumb substitution by coaches. YES
…but that can’t be all or is it?
17 Sep 2012, 13:19 pm
@nama1-179: read it again and then revert to me if you still dont understand nama.
hopefully comprehension is not one of the skills you teach.
@Transformation-188: ja, that part does concern me but then again if he had had a pop at morne then mornes confidence may have got even worse (thats frikken scary).
i think morne was always going to get phased out but meyer didnt have the confidence to put goosen in there against the abs at home and his lack of ballas has bitten him HARD.
@stormersboy-191:
if i think i need to make more impact i will ask for your assistance bud, i promise.
17 Sep 2012, 13:20 pm
@Transformation-161:
yip, read it earlier this morning.
couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy.
i can think of a few other deserving recipients.
17 Sep 2012, 13:21 pm
@nama1-195:
you forgot referees..
the axis of the earth at the time of each game
fitness, after 60 minutes Boks tire and as such decision making falls down..
Backline players need to be introdueced to one another, they cant even pass the ball to each other, like the WC quarter final also..
travel disadvantage
IRB and NZ led conspiracy
Timezones
Filthy cheating kiwis
McCheat has photos compromising every referee
17 Sep 2012, 13:22 pm
@nama1-195: it makes no difference dominating any part of the game if that domination does not lead to points.
our backs have been leaving chances on the field for a long time with poorly timed or executed last passes or not passing at all.
add that to woeful penalty kicking and you are on a hiding to nothing.
it almost seems as the belief isnt there at the moment.
17 Sep 2012, 13:23 pm
Pick pietie, drop pietie, pick koosie, rotate koosie, pick shaun, drop shaun, pick mfuneku, drop mfuneku
It ain’t going to make overall great difference
The issue is the very square plug in the very round hole
Meyer is not suited to the broad, diverse, fluid and macro management dynamics of the national coaching role.
Its the antithesis of life at the Blue Bulls where Meyer enjoyed his success.
We’ve all read endless posts from Tacci about the conservative, collective thinking, micro managed “utopia” thats is Bullejtie land
Its gonna be another 18 months of mediocre performance after which Meyer will be replaced by Brendan Venter (early 2014)
17 Sep 2012, 13:24 pm
HM should only look at the following players for his loose trio for the next two years.
6. Heinrich Brussow, Francois Louw, Siya Kolisi
7. Coetzee, Schalk, Alberts, Elstadt
8. Vermeulen, Keegan Daniel
Permutations are up to him but that’s the only players he must to consider for the Bok trio.
Alberts preferably on the bench coming on with 25-30 minutes to go.
17 Sep 2012, 13:24 pm
@poppa69-198: cute, you are back again.
how k u k were jannie and the beast on sat?
remind me again what made you think you were a rugby kenner?
17 Sep 2012, 13:24 pm
@nama1-189: “Strange how just one change (Flo for Coetzee) made such a huge difference in the performance of the forwards.”
It is simple physics. A causal relationship between tight 5 performance and an opensider’s performance.
A dominant tight 5 makes life easier for an opensider. And a dominant opensider makes life easier for the tight 5.
If an opensider effectively slow down opposition ball, the defense has more time to align, the game is slower, and tight forwards to not have to run more meters on defense. One result is that your tight 5 is fresher at the set pieces.
It is simple physics.
Some people have a misconception that if you pick 8 heavies / monsters then the pack will stand a bigger chance to dominate. Not true.
17 Sep 2012, 13:26 pm
@nama1-201: what a silly comment.
so if another youngster like kolisi comes along he should not be looked at?
no man, that kind of thinking is what people are accusing HM of.
wake up.
17 Sep 2012, 13:27 pm
@willievz-203: isnt it interesting that once biz was injured meyers approach changed?
maybe not so verkrampte?
flo was my motm btw.
17 Sep 2012, 13:28 pm
@rangerman-202: where have I ever said I was a rugby kenner?
remind me again hopw good they were against the Aussies mr Kenner
17 Sep 2012, 13:28 pm
my statements are so bold they do not require bolding.
17 Sep 2012, 13:28 pm
anyone who thinks pierre spies will not be a part of the bok loose trio setup over the next two years is living in lala-land.
17 Sep 2012, 13:29 pm
@nama 195: I don’t think you dominated the all blacks. You did though have the edge in the scrums until Beast went off, and at the ruck and maul. This allowed you to create periods of strong pressure on the ABs, but you often failed to score due to mistakes and some poor skills.
Unfortunately for your forwards, in your key playmaking positions you have got players who are at best average (Zane, Ruan and morne). You will always leave plenty of points on the field with mediocre playes calling the attacking shots.
Don’t worry, the abs aren’t immune from this problem either. Piri was poor on Saturday, and his untidy play at the breakdown killed 2-3 promising all black build ups.
17 Sep 2012, 13:29 pm
Whats amusing or maybe it should be called sentimentitas delusionitis, are the positive reflections of how “close” the Boks came.
Goodness, Boks played the best they have for the year, AB’s played the kakkest they have for the year and were still several points the better
And this from the same ou’s who are always screaming about how standards of excellence must be maintained within our changing landscape across all spheres of life blah, blah, blah
fluk me, remove em blinkers. boks are going to take another loss against the AB’s at home. same script of competitive for 60 minutes then crash bang the gees runs out and the AB’s take the match in the last 20 mins
17 Sep 2012, 13:30 pm
@poppa69-206: we are talking about the abs pack you claimed would kill them and you did tell me that i deflect because i have no rugby knowledge implying you were the judge of what constitutes knowledge.
this made you look like a k n ob.
even more of a kn o b actually
17 Sep 2012, 13:30 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-208:
All you mothers live in lala land Houston!
17 Sep 2012, 13:31 pm
If the Boks are going to improve under Meyer, it will be because he changes the approach dramatically…. Not because they start executing things better.
We struggle with execution because our opposition is able to prepare for us so easily, making it easy to disrupt our gameplan.
A one-dimensional game-plan was never going to work. Variety is needed so that we are not so predictable.
As coach of a national team, Heyneke Meyer should have anticipated this (very basic) issue.
17 Sep 2012, 13:31 pm
@rangerman-205:
I am an advocate of having 2 deck players on the ground at all times, as no deck player can be present at consecutive rucks.
A Bismarck/Brussow combo tormented opposition in 2009.
17 Sep 2012, 13:31 pm
@capetown-210: so you also read fred khumalos excellent column?
you are expected to credit the people who provide you with ideas though ok?
17 Sep 2012, 13:32 pm
@rangerman-211: where did I claim the AB pack would kill them? please show me the post..
but hey, your allusions do add weight to your arrogant assertions… so my opinion of Beast and JDP differs from yours..
I see someone has too high an opinion of themselves…
didnt your team lose this past weekend? eish hahahaha
17 Sep 2012, 13:32 pm
Jean should shut his big mouth and stop making excuses for the Bok performances. He sounds like an old granny
17 Sep 2012, 13:32 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-208: Bakkies surely you do not thing Spies deserves his place back do you?
17 Sep 2012, 13:34 pm
Brussow is 100 times better than Coetzee.
17 Sep 2012, 13:34 pm
Ranger, you just didnt like the fact that in my opinion I think both are over rated, still do..
but your preciousness in this regard is noted, is it because they are both Sharks players?
17 Sep 2012, 13:34 pm
@Boksarenumber1-219: At least 100 times.
17 Sep 2012, 13:35 pm
@cane-212:
not me caner,
i have nothing but hard facts and undeniable truths to offer…. straight from the hip ‘pop pop pop !’…
the only way i know how to roll… it was beaten into me from an early age… i took the lessons well…
17 Sep 2012, 13:35 pm
@willievz-214: it is preferrable i agree but funnily enough heyneke and jake sing from teh same hymm book wrt fetchers, both basically saying its a skill ALL players should have.
i believe vermeulen fulfills the role as the second turnover specialist quite nicely and coenie will be another who can torment the oppo though his actual long term success as a TH option is not guaranteed imo as his neck seems to get injured every time he plays 3 much like smitty’s did.
17 Sep 2012, 13:36 pm
@rangerman-223: Jake seems to have piped down from that view.
Plays Hooper at the Brumbies.
Wanted to attract Pocock to the Brumbies.
17 Sep 2012, 13:37 pm
@willievz-214:
Any coach who drops Brussow belongs in the mental asylum
17 Sep 2012, 13:37 pm
@rangerman-223: By the way – I agree that it is a skill all should have…
But…
Not everyone has the ability to anticipate when to use that skill.
The best opensiders cherry-pick the appropriate rucks.
17 Sep 2012, 13:37 pm
Isn’t it ironic that the biggest talkers on this site critiquing game plans and structure of the Boks as if they are the purveyors and custodians of running rugby are those who were absolutely wild about their do no wrong Stormers side this season…
The same Stormers side where a try was about as common as a porker in a synagogue…
Hypocrite Idiots…
17 Sep 2012, 13:37 pm
@Boksarenumber1-219: At least compare apples with apples. Brussow is 10 times better then Louw and look at the impact he had. Imagine if Heinrich was playing
17 Sep 2012, 13:38 pm
@willievz-221:
17 Sep 2012, 13:39 pm
@poppa69-216: What is your opinion of them Pops?
17 Sep 2012, 13:39 pm
@Skeppie-218:
to be honest, no… not unless he shows a dramatic change in form.
however, however much we think one or other player deserves his place or not has got sweet f’all bearing on whether that player will be a part of the setup or not.
and my money says pierre will be a part of any/every bok setup over the next two years.
so here’s to hoping his form improves
17 Sep 2012, 13:39 pm
@rangerman-155:
Oh boy!!!
Do I sense some sarcasm there?
Why the need to refer to my job? What’s up with you so called progressive types and the private lives/careers of other bloggers?
17 Sep 2012, 13:40 pm
@UptheGuts-228: Huh 10x better? What do you base that on? Brussow might be a slightly better fetcher in terms of turnovers but Flo offers carrying ability and a lineout option.
17 Sep 2012, 13:40 pm
I’m not buying Heyneke’s theory that a specialist fetcher isn’t needed. The value he brings ito slowing opposition ball, creating turnovers etc. outweighs the odd penalty he gives away. Louw showed this on the weekend. That said, your opensider should be a quality player (think Brussouw/Louw, not Stegman). Bissie coming back in to the squad will also make a big difference,
17 Sep 2012, 13:40 pm
@UptheGuts-228:
Exactly, thats what makes me so mad at this idiot Meyer.
He has some personal vendetta against Brussow and we, the Bok supporters, must suffer
17 Sep 2012, 13:42 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-231: I wouldn’t allow him near a bok jersey untill he shows some mongrel, simple as that. I would hate to see him back in a bok jersey off the back of a few good running performances….he needs to start making offensive tackles and showing up in tight games before he gets anywhere near a green and gold jersey again
17 Sep 2012, 13:42 pm
@Heavens Game-227:
Stormers finished the game with 12 men
That put a smile on my face
At least they are tough &raw
17 Sep 2012, 13:44 pm
Imagine an AB team without McCaw?
Imagine a Bok team without Brussow?
I have never seen McCaw get the better of Brussow, never ever.
F O K HEYNEKE
17 Sep 2012, 13:44 pm
@poppa69-220: two responses?
dont tell me i have you on the verge of a flash haka
17 Sep 2012, 13:44 pm
Keo – I am taking fark all comfort from that game – in fact I am DOUBLY heartbroken!
The Boks exceed all expectations, and for a while there I was prouder than any time since mid-2009, only to be HORRIBLY let-down.
- Greyling was a disgrace to his country and should never be a Bok again
- Morne… words fail me. Although will say his tackling was better.
- Kirchner – jeeezuz. he invents new levels of sh1te play. Butchering that try in the beginning was unforgivable.
- Ruan – if your first 2 or 3 kicks are too long then CHANGE what you are doing! Instead of shaking your head every time and scowling like a child.
The forwards were AWESOME – Duane and Flouw made my day. If Schalla comes back and we have that WP loose trio, it will be awesome . Then Alberts can do his Super-sub act – which is his best role.
Habana – nice try, but you cant do that once every 20 Tests. You got to do it more.
17 Sep 2012, 13:44 pm
Skeppie
JDP is not a strong scrummager, poor in the loose (last game was the best I’ve seen from him ever)
Beast is guilting of boring in way too often, think Owen Franks contained him in the set piece. doesn’t do enough around the field for mine.
but they’re just opinions.
17 Sep 2012, 13:47 pm
@nama1-232: who said i am progressive?
have you grasped what my original post was tongue in cheek inferring yet?
and i only know you are a teeesha because someone else mentioned it, you maybe?
17 Sep 2012, 13:48 pm
@rangerman-215:
honestly have never heard of fred khumalo. shall assume he is Doctor Khumalo’s journalist / columnist brother …
but hey, thanks for that, shall give him a read
17 Sep 2012, 13:48 pm
@poppa69-241:
“but they’re just opinions”
aw sweet.
nice climb down bigmouth
17 Sep 2012, 13:48 pm
@Skeppie-233: Core responsibility of a fetcher is to fetch. Mind you, Heinrich no slouch in taking the ball up either. Don’t get me wrong Louw is good at what he does but Heinrich is just streets better. How many games has Louw turned all by himself? Against the AB’s? That’s right
17 Sep 2012, 13:49 pm
@poppa69-241: Hmmm fair enough I suppose. I think JDP has omproved a lot recentley and he definitely holds his own (which is good for us as we have a dearth of quality TH’s) but I agree he is not world class. The Beast for me has the potential to be a lot better, he is a really good ball carrier and can scrum when he wants to. I suspect if we had a team that played momentum based rugby the Beast’s attiributes would be a lot more amplified
17 Sep 2012, 13:50 pm
@rangerman-204:
Not as silly as you may think.
Every coach has his top 3 or 4 players ranked in a specific order as he sees them. All I’m saying is that HM should not look further than the players I mentioned for now. A newby will have to outplay them if he wants a place in the teaming order if he starts out now. as he would be last in the peck.
I’m sure you saw that I said for the next TWO years.
17 Sep 2012, 13:50 pm
Eish I laugh at fuckwits here and there short memories… Not long ago Lambie was one of the best 10s in super rugby… 2011 he was 4th on the points scoring list despite an unbalanced Sharks side that year coming 6th in S15 and losing their 1st playoff match.
Now suddenly he is a shy’te 10 way down the list… If ever there was a case of Outtasite outtamind this is it…
Lambie needs to get back to the Sharks pronto before Meyer fcks his career up totally…
17 Sep 2012, 13:51 pm
@capetown-243: ok lol, he used “delusionitus” in his most recent column i think.
he writes in the review section of the sunday times, great read.
17 Sep 2012, 13:52 pm
@nama1-247:
“A newby will have to outplay them if he wants a place in the teaming order if he starts out now. as he would be last in the peck.”
gremlins at work.
A newby will have to outplay them if he wants a place in the team as he would be last in the pecking order if he starts out now.
17 Sep 2012, 13:53 pm
@rangerman-244: yeah, fancy sticking to the same opinion I made about them before the Aussie game, where both were shown up quite badly then… I see now thweyve had a goodish game you are braying for blood
I understand though Ranger, the bad kiwi has made light of two of your Sharks players… and as their biggest fanbooi, you cant have that..
continue with your “argument” mate, I see youve taken the adult approach and counteracted my opinions with reasoned points of your own..
well done on that I say..
17 Sep 2012, 13:53 pm
100% right – Lambie would not have been given 7 Tests to mess up (either at 10 or 15).
I agree totally that Elton and Goosen should be the 10s, and Lambie 15, with Taute understudy.
Jantjies was amazing with his kicking again on Sautrday (yes yes I know its only Currie Cup, but a field is a field, poles are poles and he got 7 or more of them over!)
Against a team like Argies, Taute and Elton can get more game time and experience.
In fact – Elton is the more senior player and should be given the first chance to play 10 and claim the jersey.
17 Sep 2012, 13:53 pm
@nama1-247: and i still think that approach is a bit narrow minded bud.
use it, dont use it.
@Heavens Game-248: it is shameful how he has been treated by meyer.
got to love the constant picks from cc by a lot of posters though.
if that was the case, griquas would comprise the next generation of boks
17 Sep 2012, 13:53 pm
@Skeppie-236:
pierre was great in 2009/10, if he can rediscover that form i’d be happy.
going on past performances i’ll also say if meyer was bold i’d even give big joe a look in. he was superb in 2004/5.
17 Sep 2012, 13:53 pm
@UptheGuts-245: Nope that’s to simplified. Yes Brussow is better on the deck but think about balance. Brussow is not a good carrier of the ball, does not make big offensive tackes and is not a lineout option. Playing him means you have to play a no 7 as per usual as well as a no8 who is more of a bruiser and less of a link man/roaming no8. It also affects hooker….when Bissie get’s back you have one “fetcher” there, if you played Flo with Bissie in the side we have two great deck players while still having a lineout option and carrying options.
17 Sep 2012, 13:54 pm
@poppa69-251: baying for blood?
shame poopsie, you are so sensitive.
17 Sep 2012, 13:55 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-254: Big Joe would be a great call but I supppose now we have to look to the future, Big Joe should have gotten a look in during PDV’s reign.
17 Sep 2012, 13:55 pm
@Boksarenumber1-238: You right, Brussow has never lost to the ABs, quite a statement
17 Sep 2012, 13:55 pm
@rangerman-256: yawn… so no counter to my opinion? and you say you dont deflect..
fine, carry on then..
17 Sep 2012, 13:55 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-254: give danie gerber a go at centre.
he was great in 1981.
17 Sep 2012, 13:55 pm
Saturdays heartache will be well worth it if it results in HM once and for all seeing the value of an opensider specialist, not this Hybrid inventions….
And if he rids the Boks of M Steyn……
asseblieftog
17 Sep 2012, 13:56 pm
@Boksarenumber1-238: Hard to take isn’t it.
@bokfan1-240: Have you noticed, even in the years that Habana was supposedly out of form, how many times he’s run himself into good positions, only to be used as the decoy or the pass arrive too late he he subsequently over-ran it? His try on Saturday is the direct result of whoever playing scrummie at the time reading it right and actualy executing to perfection. Think it was Louw but not sure. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve screamed at my TV as to why Habana always had to be the fckn dummy runner.
17 Sep 2012, 13:58 pm
see this is why i dont belong here.
when dooses start spouting off about bok props being guilty of boring in…?.. fark me…
that doos franks did only that in the last scrum of that match, together with not binding with his hooker, same for the other one. plust the early detachment.
farken larf
boring in….
17 Sep 2012, 13:58 pm
@bokfan1-252: Imagine a back three of Habana, JPP and Taute being fed by a Goosen say with another S15 year behind him. Just need to find a place for Lambie, he is too good not to be a bok
17 Sep 2012, 13:59 pm
Spies? lol i never even noticed he was missing
17 Sep 2012, 13:59 pm
@rangerman-253: Ja… Griquas seem like world beaters according to the Keo “wise”
Seems to take one try or one 60m punt and then they straight into a Bok “dream” team.
Farken oblivious
17 Sep 2012, 14:00 pm
@rangerman-260:
no, he’s made himself unavailabe… i already checked….
17 Sep 2012, 14:01 pm
@poppa69-259: i dont need to counter it.
we all watched the game pellie
17 Sep 2012, 14:01 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-263: of course, but then, its only us kiwis who cheat huh Bakkies?
I did laugh though when many of your own countryman laughed at you after the game on the weekend, I imagine many still are.
17 Sep 2012, 14:02 pm
@Heavens Game-266: its hilarious.
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-263: poopsie is just being his loveable self lol.
17 Sep 2012, 14:02 pm
@Skeppie-255: Brussow not a good ball carrier? Does not make big, offensive tackles? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Either you’ve been in a coma these last 4-5 years or been off the planet. I’ll give you just one off the top of my head…3N’s 2009 in Hamilton, tackles the **** out of McCaw, taking him back 3-4 mtrs and steal his ball too boot! Unbelievable! Where have you been?
17 Sep 2012, 14:02 pm
@bokfan1-252: Without a doubt, Jantjies should have been the Bok 10 this season. With Goosen and Lambie fighting their way in after injuries. Most people have been saying it all year, only person that has been blind to this is Meyer
17 Sep 2012, 14:03 pm
@Skeppie-257:
toulon is playing dream rugby at the moment and joe is an integral part of that.
i would back him for a swan song.
17 Sep 2012, 14:03 pm
@rangerman-268: I see you havent answered the point about the Aussie game? they were both very ordinary in that game, but I understand.
to you, one good game in many may prove they are just great, to me it is consistent performances that truly count…
anyways, moving on
17 Sep 2012, 14:03 pm
@poppa69-194: No need to “go get ‘em” anymore, we’ve “got ‘em long ago”!!!
And looking at that poll again please allow me to reassess the voting: It’s us three and Bakkies must be responsible for the other six!!!
“-)
17 Sep 2012, 14:04 pm
@rangerman-253: @Heavens Game-266: Hey
Leave the Griquas out of this
17 Sep 2012, 14:05 pm
@Skeppie-264: I think Lambie is a decent 15 but its at 10 and 12 where he shows his class IMO. JPP would be my 15 going fwd
17 Sep 2012, 14:05 pm
@rangerman-242:
Oh boy!!!
“Someone else did it first so I can also do it.”
That makes it soooo OK, I guess.
There’s no need for bringing up the personal lives of people, no matter who brought it up first.
Btw, I saw what you did there with your “you maybe?”
Jah Ranger, it is always tongue in cheek with you.
17 Sep 2012, 14:07 pm
Fark, I cant wait for the best loose trio in the country in next year’s S15 to really confuse the sh.yte out of the fools here when they continue their good work from the tail end of S15 this year…
Yup, best loosie trio is 8 Kanko… 7 Coetzee 6 Daniel… With Alberts off the bench…
Farken a good few times better, more skilful and more ballas than the fatfuck sperwhales we got masquerading as a loose for the Boks…
Laughaminute
17 Sep 2012, 14:08 pm
Brussow is the best out and out opensider in the country….
Flo is almost as good……
Please Meyer just make sure 1 of them plays …..
17 Sep 2012, 14:09 pm
@UptheGuts-271: My man I am not saying Brussow cannot tackle or cannot carry…I am saying that in test rugby he is not good enough at those arts, simple as that. He may have made one, two or three good tackles in a bok jersey but he does not physicaly have the ability to do this consistently. Not the way someone like Flo or Schalk does.
17 Sep 2012, 14:10 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-273: Can’t argue there, it’s just a pity he is 32……I can’t help thinking that we missed many quality years of Big Joe.
17 Sep 2012, 14:10 pm
@grant10-280:
1. Brussow
2. Louw
3. Marnus Schoeman
17 Sep 2012, 14:11 pm
@Bok fan-277: Ok but with Goosen and Frans where would you then play Lambie in the future?
17 Sep 2012, 14:11 pm
@poppa69-269:
lets get one thing straight straight poppa,
i am not a gatkruipertjie, full stop.
other people here can make false smiles all they want, its their business.
i gave you the list and it was incomplete to boot, i did not have time to rewatch the game but i will and then revise the list accordingly.
@rangerman-270:
fark, i would show poppa ‘all’ the love after a few beers if we ever met, and buy him a few more after…
lets just say he’s the kinda guy you wouldn’t wanna go drinking in the wrong pubs with. there’s only one way that would turn out.
the love would come thick and fast.
17 Sep 2012, 14:11 pm
@UptheGuts-271: And if you still have doubts, get on to youtube and searh for “heinrich brussow”. Pay special attention to the clips vs the B&I Lions. You’re a funny man! The only edge Louw has over Brussow is being a lineout option but that comes down to genetics! Not his fault he’s such a kortgat!
17 Sep 2012, 14:11 pm
@Skeppie-281: Brussow consistently makes more than 15 tackles per test.
17 Sep 2012, 14:11 pm
@willievz-276: When your Kwas take a deserved 20 point revenge PK at the Shark Tank then we talk again about the sudden stunning virtues of Steamin WeeWillie Le Roux…
17 Sep 2012, 14:12 pm
@rangerman-253:
Well, I won’t use it, that’s for sure.
You the kind of coach who will play a different team every week depending on the performance some player put up in the CC.
Streauli like, I guess.
HM’s pecking order for the loosies when he started his tenure probably looked like this:
6. Schalk, Coetzee, Kolisi
7. Alberts, Potgieter, Deysel
8. Vermeulen, Spies, Keegan
Unfortunately for him, players like Schalk, Deysel, Vermeulen, Spies got injured
17 Sep 2012, 14:13 pm
Quandary is the Marcelle Coetsee omission….that oke has a serious work rate….unbelievable tackler….
I agree with Nama….
Start with Marcelle at 7
Alberts off bench …but for at least 25 to 30 minutes….get him to run at tired legs….
HM going to have to make a tough call with Etsebeth and Flippie VD Merwe…..Flippie had best game I have ever seen him play….
17 Sep 2012, 14:15 pm
@nama1-289:
Forgot about Kanko as one of his preferred no. 8′s.
17 Sep 2012, 14:15 pm
@Skeppie-281: I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree then.Jjust for the record Heinrich wins my vote hands down. There is talk of Pocock upstaging McCaw in the last year or so…Brussow has been doing it for years!!
17 Sep 2012, 14:16 pm
flip did have a great game, true
and spies will be a part of the bok loose trio once recovered.
stop playing make believe.
17 Sep 2012, 14:16 pm
@Skeppie-281: Dont agree with you at all Skeppie….
17 Sep 2012, 14:17 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-285: yawn..
carry on Bakkies, I cant wait to see the complete list from this weekends game..
17 Sep 2012, 14:20 pm
wake up granty, this is not the camps bay loose trill.. sorry, i meant trio…
17 Sep 2012, 14:20 pm
@Skeppie-284: Its a good question and healthy to have that much talent in such key positions. Would be very surprised to see the 3 of them stay injury free for long periods though, all seem injury prone unfortunately
17 Sep 2012, 14:20 pm
@willievz-287: How many does Flo make? And how many of Brussows are offensive? I hate it when people spout stats that can be misleading. Morne Steyn might make 10 tackles a game but 9 of those are jersey tackles that allow the attacker 5-10m of momentum
17 Sep 2012, 14:21 pm
@grant10-294: It’s unanimous then!
17 Sep 2012, 14:21 pm
@grant10-290:
Yeah Grant.
Play Flo and Coetzee in tandem for 50-55 minutes and bring on Alberts either at 8 or 7 depending on the form of the starter.
They’ll wreak havoc, my man.
17 Sep 2012, 14:22 pm
@Skeppie-298: Here is a stat for you Skeppie.
Brussow has never lost to the ABs.
17 Sep 2012, 14:22 pm
@poppa69-295:
no, its two weeks time.
and yes, i will provide both.
17 Sep 2012, 14:22 pm
@UptheGuts-292: Look don’t get me wrong Brussow is a quality player but for me Flo just offers a bit more, either way one of them should definitely be in the Bok side. I also agree Brussow has been good against Maccaw but he has struggled against Pocock.
17 Sep 2012, 14:23 pm
@willievz-301: Sigh…another stat. What does that prove?
17 Sep 2012, 14:24 pm
@Skeppie-304: It proves the ABs don’t beat the Boks when he plays.
17 Sep 2012, 14:25 pm
@grant10-294: Look Brussow is a really good player and I have a lot of respect for him but in my bok team (the one I select and coach in my dreams) I would go with Flo.
17 Sep 2012, 14:25 pm
@Skeppie-298: Not trying to be funny at all but…how long have you been watching rugby? This is a serious question? Last year in the S15, the Cheetahs won their 1st game overseas because of who? You guessed it. He was immense the week before too against the Brumbies but they got pipped right at the end, if I remember correctly. Mate there is no comparison. Again, Francois Louw is good too, just not as good as Brussow
17 Sep 2012, 14:25 pm
@nama1-300: Makes sense to me Nama…
@willievz-283: Where does that Marnus Schoeman come from…..bloody hell that oke can play a bit!!
17 Sep 2012, 14:25 pm
@Bok fan-297: Man it would be good to find a place for all three in the years to come…if they are fit.
17 Sep 2012, 14:26 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-302: so you will wait another two weeks to provide a COMPLETE list of NZ cheating in the game played this weekend and the one in two weeks time?
is that so peoples memories will fade from this weekends game?
you really do yourself a disservice with your constant NZ are the only team that cheats mantra..
use it, dont use it
17 Sep 2012, 14:26 pm
@willievz-305: Ok so you are saying that one player is the sole reason for a victory? How mamny times has Brussow played against the AB’s?
17 Sep 2012, 14:28 pm
@UptheGuts-307: Hmm let’s see around 34 years now….played for 20 of those years, live, breath and dream about the game. Clearly you don’t watch as much rugby as I do.
17 Sep 2012, 14:28 pm
@Skeppie-303: I can agree with that! Absolutely non-negotiable to have at least 1 of them there
17 Sep 2012, 14:28 pm
@Skeppie-303:
“for me Flo just offers a bit more, …”
A bit more body weight/length?
In other word, physicality.
Heyneke Meyer, is that you?
17 Sep 2012, 14:29 pm
@Skeppie-306: OK….I seesome merit with the fact that Louw is a ‘ real ‘ lineout option…..
But Brussow shades him in pace and menace at the breakdown imo…..and Brussow carries, and importantly …he also offloads well…..
I still think Brussow shades it….but if Flo starts no trainsmash…..he is a helleva player
17 Sep 2012, 14:29 pm
Bakkies, the flying elbow surely that was a mistake and he meant to lead with head ala Corne and Botha?
17 Sep 2012, 14:30 pm
@nama1-314: Don’t mention length on this blog….we may have a few of our peers bringing todger into the discussion
17 Sep 2012, 14:30 pm
@grant10-315: Do you think Brussow carries as well as Flo? And tackles as well as Flo?
17 Sep 2012, 14:31 pm
@Skeppie-311: 4 starts….4 wins….
The boks dont lose to kiwis when they start with Brussow and Bissy
17 Sep 2012, 14:32 pm
@Skeppie-312:
I just found it strange that you could miss the impact Brussow has had thus far in his career, is all.No sweat! I have never seen Flo play anything near that level yet. He had impact yes but not to the extent Brussow has had.
17 Sep 2012, 14:32 pm
@NZINCHINA-316: China of course it was an accident! Same a when Kevin bent down to tie his lace and accidentally smashed Cannon’s face…or when Tana and Keven accidentally broke BOD’s collarbone. Similar whoopsies.
17 Sep 2012, 14:32 pm
@Skeppie-317:
LOL
OK…height then.
17 Sep 2012, 14:33 pm
@grant10-319: HAHAHA and here I was thinking there were 13 other guys who had an impact on the result.
17 Sep 2012, 14:33 pm
@Skeppie-318: Better!
17 Sep 2012, 14:33 pm
@poppa69-310:
no, i will provide a revised list for the bok/nz game and i will provide a list for the bok/oz game.
you do yourself a diservice trying to convince smart and seasoned viewers that its not true you are the only team in world rugby allowed to cheat to the extent you do and get away with it.
use it, don’t not use it…
17 Sep 2012, 14:33 pm
@nama1-322: Ok that’s still borderline for this place but accepted.
17 Sep 2012, 14:34 pm
@Skeppie-318: Tackles as well imo….
Carries as wel imo
and also passes….he is developing , fast becoming a real all rounder…..
and most important his pace to and anticipation at the breakdown has no equal…..
17 Sep 2012, 14:34 pm
@jonnyBravo-8: Anyone with a little bit of rugby knowledge can see that Goosen is head & shoulders above anyone in the number 10 jersey, including Lambie. You don’t need an extra S15 season or more games in the Bok jersey to figure that out. That is not to say Lambie should not be an automatic selection. His place is 15 though.
Here’s what gets to me though: this is a valid argument we’re having about two exceptional players …. and HM has them playing bench!
17 Sep 2012, 14:35 pm
@UptheGuts-324: Ok let’s agree to disagree, cos that makes no sense. Anyway regardless of us being polar opposites on that topic let’s at least agree that it’s a good thing we now have a “ground player” in the side.
17 Sep 2012, 14:35 pm
@Skeppie-323: True but Brussow was very influential to the outcome in ALL his starts against the AB’s
17 Sep 2012, 14:35 pm
@nama1-278: ok well i apolgise then mate, i think your profession is honourable and was aving a larf.
byegones.
@willievz-276: it was a compliment to your kwas seeing how they beat my tjarkies last weekend maybe a bit of a backhand compliment but hey, whaddayaexpect?
@nama1-289: stop being silly, its the use of absolutes in your post that i was highlighting.
what if someone had made a statement like yours BEFORE siya came on the scene?
you are so obstreperous sometimes!
17 Sep 2012, 14:35 pm
Plenty of chest beating after a 10 point loss, Soccer city will be a dead rubber but we’ll still take you comfortably in the end like Dunedin.
17 Sep 2012, 14:36 pm
@Skeppie-329: I can live with that
17 Sep 2012, 14:36 pm
@Skeppie-323: you know what I mean Skeppie…
17 Sep 2012, 14:36 pm
@grant10-327: Read 329. There is just no way he carries as well as Flo but clearly we see it differently, no problem with that…healthy discussion and all!
17 Sep 2012, 14:36 pm
@NZINCHINA-316: save your breath mate, no amount of reason, medicine or compassion will ever set Bakkies free..
a lost cause sinking further into his own self deluded abyss..
17 Sep 2012, 14:38 pm
@Skeppie-321:
only difference is greyling got an immediate yellow and a good old citing with suspension for good measure to boot.
while kevvie got to play out his natural game and umaga didn’t even bother explaining himself to anyone.
larf
17 Sep 2012, 14:38 pm
@NZINCHINA-332: Let’s talk after the game ok? Or wait till the team announcement at least. Morne Steyn plays, you can have the win. I’ll give it to you myself
17 Sep 2012, 14:38 pm
I hope the boks can change their style, Flyhalf and Fullback soon… Morne is a shocker and has been for some time, he needs to go! This blue bulls rubbish is not working! We need Goosen at flyhalf or Elton.. They can both get the backs moving. Lambie at fullback!
17 Sep 2012, 14:38 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-325: yawn….
17 Sep 2012, 14:39 pm
@poppa69-310: you are yawning so much i think you need a little lie down
beast and jannie are k uk therefore the abs front row must be utter sh it.
thanks for clearing that up.
17 Sep 2012, 14:39 pm
@grant10-334: Look there is no doubting Brussow’s value, and yes I agree he has obviously contributed in a big way to our recent victories over the ABs. But for me balance is more important than playing one man. That said I would not be in tears if he was suddenly in the bok side come two weeks time. If it’s not going to be Flo then it must be Brussow.
17 Sep 2012, 14:41 pm
@rangerman-205: “isnt it interesting that once biz was injured meyers approach changed?
maybe not so verkrampte?”
no it did not change! he moved alberts to 8 and played jaque potgieter at 7 with keegan dropped to the bench! he had to be moered and outsmarted in Mendoza to even flirt with the idea, even in aus, Flo started of the wood while deans showed intent in picking both hooper & gill in his match 22.
17 Sep 2012, 14:41 pm
@poppa69-336: Come on Pops you are distracting China from replying to my very witty post!
17 Sep 2012, 14:41 pm
@poppa69-340: yawning again
its late there, go have a slaapie.
@NZINCHINA-332: the only chest beating has been from poopsie and i see you having a go too.
its quite amusing because i wouldnt have been quite as encouraged if i was an ab fan.
then again, i dont rely on the boks for my emotional well being
17 Sep 2012, 14:41 pm
Pops Bakkies is the SA champion of fair play on the field, he’s had a tough couple of weeks.These guys are pretty pumped Ab’s have peaked rubarb rubarb look out the big scary Bokke is coming please.
17 Sep 2012, 14:42 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-337: I see, so attacking the head of someone with a flying forearm doesnt warrant a yellow card in your opinion Bakkies?
17 Sep 2012, 14:43 pm
@Skeppie-303: Flouw is good, but at his best he has not achieved anything close to Brussouw at test level or domestic. Brussouw also has the never say die attitude that each coach wants to see at the last 10 min. A fit Brussouw is hell for any team to play against. Put him next too Vermeulen and Alberts, then you have a winning back row. He might be shorter but I can promise you that Brussouw will beat Flouw in any department when it comes to atheltic ability and even strength.
Brussouw is faster, stronger and smarter than Flouw, period.
17 Sep 2012, 14:43 pm
What will happen if the Aus/AB play as well as we did against them and we play as poorly as they did against us?
Will we be able to pull it through like they did? Somehow I don’t think so.
We’ll have to play out of our skin in two weeks time and the week thereafter to win against them and at the same time hope that they have an off day.
17 Sep 2012, 14:44 pm
@NZINCHINA-332: And you’re absolutely sure that Soccer City will be a dead rubber? It took you a while to subdue the Argies on homesoil and beating the AB’s is not beyond them. They’ve done it before. haven’t they?
17 Sep 2012, 14:44 pm
@Transformation-343: ag nonsense transie.
brussow has been injured and flo had to fly out to aus from england.
did you think he would start a few days after joining the squad for the first time since the wc?
no buddy, as soon as biz was injured meyer sent out the sos for flo.
i havent been all that impressed so far but i am willing to give credit where it is due.
wake up.
17 Sep 2012, 14:44 pm
@rangerman-341:
pops is like one of those remedially challenged kids in a feel good hollywood movie about a good hearted teacher in the inner city trying to reach hopeless kids and make a difference.
there must be way for us to reach this kid
17 Sep 2012, 14:45 pm
@poppa69-347: I have to say that geezer McCaw took that forearm like a champ.
17 Sep 2012, 14:45 pm
Ranger we’ve won 14 straight tests and will soon be the RC champions, what else do we need to do?
17 Sep 2012, 14:45 pm
@Skeppie-311: Jeez man.
Can’t you google those things yourself?
17 Sep 2012, 14:46 pm
@goodstuff-348: We agreed to disagree!
17 Sep 2012, 14:47 pm
@poppa69-347:
do you think flying knees to the back of an unsuspecting irish does either?
or how bout a generous knee to the face?
larf
17 Sep 2012, 14:47 pm
It’ll be a dead rubber, we win away from home nearly as much as at home.
17 Sep 2012, 14:48 pm
or how but breaking a players shoulder blade?
17 Sep 2012, 14:48 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-352:
@NZINCHINA-354: so you are happy?
great.
but imo the abs looked eminently beatable at home against both the argies and us.
credit to them on the win but i am actually very encouraged by the boks progress and believe one or two tweaks will make the boks hard to beat.
p.s. transie, meyer also started vermeulen as soon as he could (possibly too soon) and vermeulen has proved to be no slouch at effecting turnovers.
17 Sep 2012, 14:48 pm
@rangerman-341: really, how could the ABs front row be utter kuk if they havent lost a game in the rugby championship?
I didnt realise how much my opinion has damaged your psyche ranger..
good to see, have you got an answer to my question much earlier in this thread about how those two players went against Aussie in perth?
17 Sep 2012, 14:49 pm
or dropping someone onto his back in a failed spear attempt
putting the person out for six months
17 Sep 2012, 14:49 pm
@NZINCHINA-358: its almost amusing how arrogant you are.
and you talk about chest beating?
17 Sep 2012, 14:50 pm
@goodstuff-348: Ok clearly I am in the Brussow fan club here….read the previous posts, I have a lot of good things to say about Brussow. If you guys think he carries and tackles as well as Flo then fine, I just disagree.
17 Sep 2012, 14:50 pm
does any of that warrant a yellow card..?
mmmm?
17 Sep 2012, 14:50 pm
Bakkies you’d be a little unhappy with Greyling that he didn’t break McCaw’s jaw?
17 Sep 2012, 14:51 pm
larf
17 Sep 2012, 14:51 pm
@NZINCHINA-358: Ek lag my in my peos as julle verloor! You are going to hang around if you lose in Mendoza or wherever? Don’t go MIA ok
17 Sep 2012, 14:51 pm
@poppa69-361: ho ho ho.
the abs didnt win that game because of their front row (who battled against the superior jannie and beast, we all saw it).
they won because the boks didnt take their chances and morne couldnt hit a barn door from 5m out.
but its always enjoyable to see a fool stick to his bs opinions in the face of adversity
17 Sep 2012, 14:51 pm
or throwing in the odd coconut tackle in a super final
17 Sep 2012, 14:51 pm
does that warrant a yellow?
17 Sep 2012, 14:52 pm
@willievz-355: It’s quicker to ask the question here than to google (do you know how to do a smiley face? I wanted to put one at the end here)
17 Sep 2012, 14:52 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-365: how about Matfields head high tackle of kelleher?
or his subsequent head high attack of Carter?
any number of Butch james attacks on Careters head?
Bismarcks eye gouge on Thompson?
Burgers eye gouge in the Lions series?
do these even remotely constitute cheating in your books bakkies? do they?
17 Sep 2012, 14:52 pm
@grant10-308: Played for Tuks and the Bulls.
Definitely a bit too small for our size-obsessed coaches, though:
1.78 m (5 ft 10 in)
96 kg (15 st 2 lb)
17 Sep 2012, 14:52 pm
@UptheGuts-368: noodle wont dissapear.
he wouldnt have anyone to talk to
17 Sep 2012, 14:53 pm
@rangerman-369: still no answer on the Aussie situation ranger?
I do love the fact that after one good game suddenly they are better then anyone else…
they are over rated in my opinion…
deal with it..
17 Sep 2012, 14:54 pm
@goodstuff-353: Ok hold on! We can agree here! Ritchie is one tough bugger, he has been smashed all his career and he just keeps going. For me he must be the greatest AB of all time…..and that’s saying something!
17 Sep 2012, 14:54 pm
@Skeppie-372: : lol:
remove the spaces.
its a pleasure for a northwood comrade.
17 Sep 2012, 14:54 pm
@poppa69-361: Poppa, the RC this year has been very poor in terms of each teams standards of play, the ABs have obviously been the best of the bunch but they also have the most caps in their, most of them WC winners. The boks have been rebuilding and building really slow, the Ozzies are complete rubbish and the Argies are really the only team that has improved since the WC!
Overall the RC is not really living up to 2009/ 2010′s (2011 was a dead rudder because of SA pulling top players) quality.
17 Sep 2012, 14:54 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-370: nah, your racist insinuation does warrant a yellow though..
17 Sep 2012, 14:55 pm
@Skeppie-335: hi, the whole “the boks have never lost to the all blacks with heinrich there” doesn’t wash at all…in 2010 in auckland and hamilton we would’ve been bliksemed with heinrich there too…our pack was monstered on both occassions with schalk and flo playing in tandem…not sure if smit or bissie was there too but we got owned.
17 Sep 2012, 14:56 pm
@poppa69-376: well i dont really know how many scrums the boks lost vs aus, do you poops?
(see, i am allowing you your deflection to save you a little face if only in your own mind).
17 Sep 2012, 14:56 pm
@poppa69-373: Pops isnt this all a bit pointless? There has been a lot of dirty AB play in history and a lot of dirty Bok play. Greyling’s incident on Saturday deserved a red IMO. But that doesn’t make the boks ditry players in general. One tossers action doesn;t define bok rugby
17 Sep 2012, 14:57 pm
We dont fold away from home in the Tri nations thats your domain, we’ll take the Argies and lift the trophy before we set foot on the dark continent, however there will still be plenty to play for as we desperately want to win 18 straight.
17 Sep 2012, 14:57 pm
@goodstuff-379: I agree, I cant think of one test that has been a pleasure to watch..
17 Sep 2012, 14:58 pm
@rangerman-378: Thanks Ranger! You may have been a 2E1 nerd but we 2E2′s welcome you!
17 Sep 2012, 14:59 pm
@poppa69-380: coconut tackle is racist?
seriously?
what is “********, japie” and the k word you used on here?
haha, get *** ke d loooooser.
17 Sep 2012, 14:59 pm
@rangerman-331:
Exactly why he is where he is in the pecking order. Because Meyer has his own pecking order Ranger.
It was just that, at the start of his tenure, his list had the wrong names on it.
17 Sep 2012, 14:59 pm
@Transformation-381: Our pack would not have been bliksemed as hard with Heinrich there.
A good opensider helps the tight 5 to dominate games.
17 Sep 2012, 14:59 pm
@rangerman-351: “wake up”
don’t be foolish, bissy got injured in cape town, Flo was only arrived in aus the wednesday before the match!!! what SoS?
you are the one oleleyo!
17 Sep 2012, 15:00 pm
@rangerman-382: Im just proving a point that your manlove for both players didnt extend to a game where they were both very poor… I see youre the bandwagoning type..
good one..
again, does my opinion mean that much to you that my not rating these two players continues to illicit pointless responses from you?
just accept the fact that I dont rate either player, you do..
simple concept really Ranger
17 Sep 2012, 15:00 pm
@Skeppie-386:
hey man, dont down on the brains ok?
p.s. my high flying days were short lived, i am convinced it was a clerical error
17 Sep 2012, 15:01 pm
@Skeppie-364: I’ll be very suprised if you find more than 1 supporter to your theory on here tho. Have a look on youtube and come back and tell me Flo has done any of that… to that same extent.
@rangerman-375: Almost makes you want them to lose. Just to see him squirm.
17 Sep 2012, 15:01 pm
@UptheGuts-228: I am a massive fan of Brussow but think Flo with added height and weight has more of a chance with HM’s obsession with size in making the team … I want to see Biz, Coonie, Vermulen and Brussow/Flo scrapping on the deck in the run on … Habs also is great at going for T/O ..
Beware people just as we are looking likely at eradicating one shite Bull Morne … our other nemsis Britney will regain fitness and her place ..
17 Sep 2012, 15:02 pm
@rangerman-387: yep, use it next time you are enjoying a beer with a few islanders,call them that and see what their response is..
didnt a SA commentator get into trouble recently for using it?
17 Sep 2012, 15:02 pm
@poppa69-373:
matfield was cited and cleared in the judicial hearing you ******.
the tackle on carter was not head high, again, you ******.
what are you talking about carters head? at a push you mean no arm tackles?
bismarck was cited and suspended for four weeks for a ‘careless’ and non deliberate action, but suspended all the same.
burger was suspended for eight weeks.
whats your point you ******?
in every instance the saffa player has been severely punished.
can we say the same about you filthy lot?
the answer in case you’re having trouble with it is NO
17 Sep 2012, 15:03 pm
r e t a r d
r e t a r d
r e t a r d
17 Sep 2012, 15:05 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-396: but the Boks never cheat in your fantasy world, Im just highlighting glaring deficiencies in your putrid argument.
17 Sep 2012, 15:05 pm
@willievz-389: that’s conjencture.
17 Sep 2012, 15:05 pm
@nama1-388: ok this is going nowhere.
lets agree that i disagree with you?
@Transformation-390:
the squad flew out to argieland almost immediately after CT didnt they?
where, in one week was there time to get flo in and bring him up to speed, its a new coach after all?
for all you know, flo was called at halftime from CT and told to get organised as he would be playing vs aus?
seriously, logistics dont seem to be a strong point of yours transie.
go back to sleep
@poppa69-391: they are sharks poopsie, i rated them when they did the business all season after beast returned from injury.
your opinion is bs and we all saw it being proved wrong.
grow up and take it on the jaw (you dont seem to have a chin).
17 Sep 2012, 15:07 pm
Uptheguts shouldnt you be more concerned with beating Australia you are their bunnies or had you forgotten although it would appear from the comments around here Nz and Aus pose no challenge and will be beaten with ease fu ck you guys are bi-polar last week you all waved the white flag now its Bokke worldwide domination very amusing stuff
17 Sep 2012, 15:08 pm
@NZINCHINA-384: Was the last game you lost not in SA?
17 Sep 2012, 15:08 pm
@poppa69-395:
Bob Skinstadt had to apologize after using the word during the RWC.
17 Sep 2012, 15:08 pm
@Transformation-381: I suspected. But 2010 was Bakkies’ headbutt incident, not so? Got a yellow couple of minutes after the fact. Hamilton was JF’s yellow, I think. For manhandling Nonu?
17 Sep 2012, 15:09 pm
@rangerman-400: hahahaha
seems my opinion has got you in a right royal lather..
good stuff
I suggest you watch the aussie game if you get a chance ranger, they were both extremely ordinary, but dont take my word for it,catch a recording and see for yourself..
17 Sep 2012, 15:09 pm
@UptheGuts-393: you have to pity the guy though.
i would also go mad if my days highlight was chirping on silverfern.
@poppa69-395: haha, next time you are lucky enough to find someone to have a beer with make sure it isnt a d u t ch man and you dont use the language you have here about them ok?
17 Sep 2012, 15:10 pm
@Transformation-381: Transie I have been given a beating here today for saying I prefer Flo to Brussow….help!
17 Sep 2012, 15:10 pm
@rangerman-387:
these okes are precious about things like that.
its like the haka, they expect us to hold it in the same reverence they do.
what a larf.
its not like i called pi’s (or off colour kiwis for that matter) a specific and derogatory name such as a boonga, boong, boonie or something.
i’m referring to the way in which they (and they being all of them) tackle.
17 Sep 2012, 15:11 pm
@Transformation-399: But supported in part by the fact that our pack has dominated opposition packs in the overwhelming majority of tests the Boks played with Heinrich.
And look at the Cheetahs pack when Heinrich is not playing.
17 Sep 2012, 15:11 pm
@rangerman-406: well, the two I have are too scared to have a beer with me, that would be you and Fernly..
only brave behind a gun ranger?
17 Sep 2012, 15:12 pm
@poppa69-405: poopsie you have been stalking me all day since i highlighted that your opinion was bs as proven by the ab front row looking ordinary on sat.
its getting creepy though.
17 Sep 2012, 15:12 pm
@UptheGuts-393: Ok ok hold on, we agreed to disagree here……
17 Sep 2012, 15:12 pm
Goodstuff we lose away but not very often you very rarely win away from home in the SH D L L is testament to that surely?
17 Sep 2012, 15:13 pm
@Transformation-399: Leading the witness!
17 Sep 2012, 15:13 pm
I’ve got this image of Poppa as a colossal, heavily tattooed Maori bouncer in Sydney, blogging from his Iphone or Blackberry whilst on shift.
I will pick a fight with him on Keo, but I too am too scared to meet him in person
17 Sep 2012, 15:13 pm
@NZINCHINA-401: I worry about some Bok supporters. As You point out, last week very few supporters gave them a chance against the AB’s and all was doom and gloom. This week we are suddenly world beaters again… Eish, Imagine the psychologist bills.
17 Sep 2012, 15:16 pm
@NZINCHINA-401: I think you have me confused with someone else mate. Have I mentioned worldwide domination or any of the other **** you talk about? Your forwards got pasted mate. Kieran Read (my favorite NZ player) was nowhere to be seen if only for that offload to Dagg. That is usualy a clear sign that your pack is struggling. So on what grounds do you make a AB win a walk in the park? Poor finishing? Lousy goalkicking? I don’t discount a AB win, not by any means. It’s like I told you before. Let’s wait till after the game.
17 Sep 2012, 15:16 pm
@poppa69-398:
no, you (again) ******.
that was never the point. the point was that you people are in fact the filthiest lot to ever play the game but you are allowed to get away with it by way of deceits.
if the boks are dirty they are dirty in individual player instances and in no way in an organised team instance, whereas the ab’s are.
and to be clear, in those time when individual bok players transgress they are severely punished in almost 99% of the cases unlike the ab’s who get away with filthy play on a team wide basis.
big
big
difference
17 Sep 2012, 15:16 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-408: ja look we dont know the nuances but i gather that islanders are referred to as coconuts in a derogatory way.
i think we should change the name of a head high tackle to a “lima”
that kokhead staggering around after knocking himself dumb on andre pretorius (surely the most fragile bok of all time) will forever be one of my favourite memories.
@poppa69-410: cant speak for fernly but i would rather drink umqombothi from a paint tin at nkandla than have a beer with you poopsie.
17 Sep 2012, 15:17 pm
so one good game is proof positive Ranger ?
hahah sad really
17 Sep 2012, 15:17 pm
@mako-416: China is being a bit harsh, I think its simply a case of most bok supporters realising that we are not in as bad a place as we thought. The AB’s are deserving of the title of world champions but we are not a million miles behind them….a good few yards behind but not light years.
17 Sep 2012, 15:18 pm
@rangerman-400: “for all you know, flo was called at halftime from CT and told to get organised as he would be playing vs aus?”
for all i know? you’re in the same boat mr
, stop talking like you’ve got the inside lane, that’s Tac’s domain…
meyer wasn’t even talking fetcher, he was going “horses for courses” dropping daniel (the guy who can even attempt deck play) for POTTIE who was supposed to bulldoze the argies and FORCE meyer’s attrition-based gameplan!
6. Marcell
7. Pottie
8. Alberts
not even a hint of a deck player and still he rubbished the team for being kak @ the breakdown…
17 Sep 2012, 15:19 pm
@NZINCHINA-413: That is true, my point is that you hope to get to 18 straight wins, but I’m saying that you have to win in the republic to do so. If there is a place you don’t win so often it would be there.
Besides, I don’t think this AB side deserves to get 18 straight wins, nowhere near the class of the 1998 boks or the 1967 All Blacks, then again maybe they are obviously a team than current holders of the record, Lithuania. What a joke!
17 Sep 2012, 15:19 pm
Let’s take a break from the Bok match for a moment. How about the Canadian’s short right to the Deysel chin? And the swing and a semi-miss by the other WP flank on Botes? Have these been discussed here today? Because they deserve a few minutes.
I thought Jeb planted that right very sweetly. I hope Sunni Bin was watching. Because if he doesn’t land a few like that in short succession against Fransie, November is going to be a most forgettable month for him. The other flank hit like a standard five schoolyard fight though. Botes hardly felt a thing.
17 Sep 2012, 15:19 pm
@mako-416: Thats a bit over the top, some bok supporters are saying rightly after the ab game they have a good chance in SA … First up is Oz who have managed to negate Boks for too long now .. Lets get these guys sorted first then go back to ab ..
17 Sep 2012, 15:19 pm
@willievz-415:
he is surely an angry man, talking about “groups of islanders”.
probably sticking his tomgue out at me after every post.
17 Sep 2012, 15:19 pm
@NZINCHINA-413: That is true, my point is that you hope to get to 18 straight wins, but I’m saying that you have to win in the republic to do so. If there is a place you don’t win so often it would be there.
Besides, I don’t think this AB side deserves to get 18 straight wins, nowhere near the class of the 1998 boks or the 1967 All Blacks, then again they are obviously a better team than the current holders of the record, Lithuania. What a joke!
17 Sep 2012, 15:20 pm
@Skeppie-421: It was a huge relief to find that out this weekend, granted. The acid test was always going to be the game against the AB’s to see how far behind we really are. I think most people feel after the game that with a few tweaks (morne OUT and no more Greyling) we are pretty much right up there with the best. Nothing wrong with that actually.
17 Sep 2012, 15:21 pm
@UptheGuts-404: danie rossouw for touching richie on his back or something innocuous…
17 Sep 2012, 15:21 pm
@willievz-415: You’re not completely wrong. He is in the security business. But not at nightclubs. He watches the shopping trolleys in a Supermarket car park.
17 Sep 2012, 15:22 pm
@rangerman-419:
fair enough, i’ll ask poppa
@poppa69-420:
poppa, are pi’s referred to as coconuts by white kiwis and ozzies? and if yes or no then where does the meaning come from?
why is it a coconut tackle, and why is it a racist inference to say so?
honestly curious.
17 Sep 2012, 15:22 pm
@rangerman-419: thats a relief Ranger, truly..
id hate to see your reaction if I gave an opinion of any other shark player who I think is over rated…
all this because the two who I still dont rate had very good games this weekend..
can they consistently do it, I think not..
this is what bugs you the most..
I
17 Sep 2012, 15:23 pm
@Transformation-422: point is that he brought flo in transie?
thats the point surely????
so would you agree that he has adapted or not?
you are so tjatjarag sometimes
@katman-424: haha, botes was classic “did you see that linesman?”
i wonder what made those wp’s so upset? they were not there to play rugby.
maybe they had all been to the hairdresser in the hopes that the game would be called off?
17 Sep 2012, 15:23 pm
@goodstuff-427: we’ve won 18 times in the republic, compared to SAs 9 times in NZ..
it is not the fortress it used to be..
17 Sep 2012, 15:24 pm
@katman-424: Yeah that Canadian has learned a few tricks over the years you can see that.
The other fella deserves to be banned just for throwing such a “freshie”.
17 Sep 2012, 15:24 pm
@katman-424: Katman that’s a good topic. Do you reckon SBW has a chance against Fransie?
17 Sep 2012, 15:25 pm
@willievz-409: please, the chiefs won super rugby without a fetcher…
17 Sep 2012, 15:25 pm
@poppa69-420:
i always imagined it was coconut tackle because the action was like an attempt to chop open a coconut, which is a touch fruit to crack open?
17 Sep 2012, 15:25 pm
@rangerman-419:
And Jimmy Cowan’s bandaged head at Newlands (?)
17 Sep 2012, 15:25 pm
@poppa69-432: nothing bugs me buddy, thats called projection in psycho babble.
you are projecting your insecurity onto me poops.
you were wrong.
check it.
17 Sep 2012, 15:25 pm
Actually Bokke B were all over the ABs – if he picked the A side we woulda won by a lanslide.
17 Sep 2012, 15:26 pm
Have to run, good chatting Bokke away game is going to be superb, night Pops.
17 Sep 2012, 15:27 pm
@Transformation-437:
yes, but we all know why/how they won.
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-438:
a tough fruit to crack open.
so the head action is like cracking open a coconut,no?
17 Sep 2012, 15:27 pm
@rangerman-433: Deysel and the Canadian were having it our for that entire maul, and neither looked like he wanted to back down – that was only ever going to end one way.
And Botes was hanging onto the WP flan’s arm, preventing him from leaving the ruck. He swung a few times at Botes’s arm, and then decided to have a bash at his head, without too much effect.
But yes, they were moerig. At one point I thought Brok was going to succumb to the red mist too. He looked like he was on the verge of lapsing into aggravated Roid Rage.
17 Sep 2012, 15:27 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-438: it is a derogatory term to Islanders mate.. not sure of the origin as to why
17 Sep 2012, 15:28 pm
@UptheGuts-439: think i recall that.
but lima will always stand out for getting his just rewards for all the disgusting head high tackles he made vs the boks.
his last act in test rugby was trying to find out where the ground had gone (and while i am laughing i am happy he wasnt seriously injured).
17 Sep 2012, 15:28 pm
@mako-428: Yup. The thing that pleased me was that although to some degree the AB’s had an off day, to a larger degree we caused that off day though a really good forward performance. It shows that if we can be consistently as good as our potential in the forwards and use the pill better at the back we can really get back to being the best team in the world.
17 Sep 2012, 15:29 pm
@rangerman-440: the only one wrong ranger is your continued insistence all because I have a differing opinion of you..what is it about me not rating them that irks you so much? honest question?
you think one good showing disproves this, fair enough, thats your choice..
17 Sep 2012, 15:29 pm
@Transformation-437: Yep, against a team who travelled how many hours in 2 weeks?
17 Sep 2012, 15:29 pm
@NZINCHINA-442: later China.
17 Sep 2012, 15:30 pm
@rangerman-433: he had to MOER his head on the wall FIRST…that’s my point…
why hasn’t morne been dropped?
because the coach is stubborn again!
we didn’t need to lose in NZ to know the guy is kicking S.HIT!
17 Sep 2012, 15:31 pm
@katman-444: i think wp had come with a plan to intimidate and it didnt work out.
the game was a laugh at times like when brache tried a droppie. i nearly fell off my chair laughing as the blerrie ball landed on the wet field and didnt bounce at all!
@poppa69-445: maybe people said islanders have heads like coconuts?
17 Sep 2012, 15:31 pm
@poppa69-445: My neighbour has adopted a Zimbabwean kid and he says that at school the local black kids are calling him a coconut, because they say he is brown on the outside and white on the inside. He is quite hurt by it…
17 Sep 2012, 15:31 pm
@Transformation-422:
You’ll just have to agree to disagree because you will go around and around with this and you maybe be accused of being “obstreperous.”
Rangerman is always right.
17 Sep 2012, 15:31 pm
@Transformation-451: Stop being so harsh on Morne.
Was MOM against the Argies not too long ago
17 Sep 2012, 15:31 pm
@poppa69-445:
ok, thanks.
so to be clear, is a coconut tackle a head high tackle effected by a p/islander?
and any other head high tackles by a non pi is just a head high tackle?
or is it any type of tackle by a p/islander, like say for instance a shoulder charge?
17 Sep 2012, 15:31 pm
@willievz-449: they won super rugby not the final, they finished 2nd in the whole comp, beat the crusaders in the semi and THEN won the final sans a fetcher!
17 Sep 2012, 15:32 pm
@Skeppie-436: I haven’t seen Botha since his fight against Simba, so no idea what kind of shape he’s in. I suspect this fight won’t go beyond three rounds anyway, so I guess fitness is not such an issue. And in a short, ugly fight you’d have to tip it Botha’s way. I’ve seen all of Sunni Bin’s fights, and he’s never faced anyone with a real heavy punch, but Botha knows how to land them. Sunni Bin’s going to do a lot of running early on, but you can’t run away forever. I say Botha by knock-out in the third.
17 Sep 2012, 15:32 pm
@poppa69-448: boring.
watch the sharks s15 gasmes post beasts return again and when you are finished report back here with a 10 000 word report on how wrong you are.
make sharp.
17 Sep 2012, 15:34 pm
@Transformation-451: ja that part made me mal but i am trying to be positive and you seem hell bent on making that impossible?
wtf is wrong with you?
@nama1-454: thank you.
17 Sep 2012, 15:34 pm
@mako-453: sad to hear, kids can be very cruel..
@rangerman-452: yep, think that is the gist of the term..
17 Sep 2012, 15:36 pm
@rangerman-446:
upthere with the look on Punter’s face when we creamed them in ’08 in Aus
17 Sep 2012, 15:36 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-456: we have never referred to head high tackles as “coconut” tackles… they are clotheslines or head high tackles as far as I know..
Ranger – they may go alright in Super rugby, but we all know it is a step up to international… again, I dont hink either of them are that great, lets just leave it at that shall we?
17 Sep 2012, 15:37 pm
@katman-458: i will say one thing, sbw has hand speed and obviously the coordination needed.
saw a youtube clip of a little combination he threw in a rugby game altercation.
the oke he hit didnt even have time to put his hands up before sunni landed three to his face.
sure, sunni premeditated it but he was very quick.
i hope fransie wins because he is a saffa but eidder way sport will be duh winna
17 Sep 2012, 15:37 pm
Geez I dunno the White rhino looks like his pregnant – whereas SBW in great shape – have to be n regte egte boere klap early on otherwise I reckon the rhino might take a dive in the second just to get a feed in.
17 Sep 2012, 15:39 pm
@poppa69-463:
ok thanks. sorry i wont use it again, seing as it seems to infer a racial connotation.
i always thought it had to do with chopping a guys head ( his nut) off.
never to old to learn.
i wonder if anyone else knows this?
17 Sep 2012, 15:39 pm
@poppa69-461: in sa a coconut is a derogatory term used mostly by black folk to describe a black person who is black outside and white inside.
transie would probably be called one if he didnt keep his revolutionary mojo strong
@UptheGuts-462: couldnt happen to a nicer guy.
@poppa69-463: ok we will leave it for this day. call it round one.
after the boks vs abs in sa we can resume the discussion.
17 Sep 2012, 15:40 pm
@cab-465: He may have a paunch, but he’s a real boxer – all he ever was. He’s going to donner that decoupaged gymbunny seven ways from Sunday, mark my words.
17 Sep 2012, 15:41 pm
@katman-458: I actually saw photo’s of Fransie on FB, know a few guys who run a boxing gym in Durban and he has been training there. He os clearly not in the same shape as SBW and is 20 years older but this is a man who lived with Tyson for half a fight. I can;t wait to watch it!
17 Sep 2012, 15:41 pm
i am just joshing eh transie?
17 Sep 2012, 15:41 pm
i want botha to fark sonny bill up sooooo sooooo bad
17 Sep 2012, 15:42 pm
@rangerman-467: I checked the term on wikipeadia, it means the same thing in America as it does in SA,.. and cool, we will gauge how they go against the Aussies first so I can give you my opinion as a neutral
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-466: no wucking furries, I will try and do likewise with my use of certain words too…
17 Sep 2012, 15:43 pm
@poppa69-472: Pops what do you do for a living?
17 Sep 2012, 15:43 pm
@poppa69-472:
c h r i s t pops, dont go all soft on me.
i still think you’re a doos
17 Sep 2012, 15:44 pm
ok, after all that arguing i will end my keo participation by saying that the boks have a few tweaks to make but imo looked pretty good on sat in certain facets.
cant wait for my favourite player, JPP the legend, to return because he will ignite our backline singlehandedly.
tjorts crackers!
17 Sep 2012, 15:44 pm
Coconut (US) a person of Hispanic descent who’s accused of acting white.
(New Zealand/Australia) a Pacific Islander. Named after the coconut, the nut from the coconut palm.
(UK) a black person who exhibits behaviour associated with caucasians; (US) a black person trying to be ‘white’.
(South Africa) a black person who acts white
(Canada) an individual of South Asian (typically Dravidian) descent, who is accused of trying to be ‘white’.
*In the USA also know as an Oreo (after the cookie)
17 Sep 2012, 15:46 pm
lol katman – actually be interesting to see how sbw gies against the rhino but the rhino not only got a paunch isn’t he about 50 these days ? He looks like he’s been training oita tge Welkom kroeg..
17 Sep 2012, 15:46 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-466: Richie McCaw – Simply The Best! @niggling
Article By: Tony, Johnson
Monday, 17 September 2012 10:26 a.m.
One of the great things about the Forsyth Barr Stadium in Dunedin is that fans are right on top of the action.
You can feel every tackle, every clash of bodies – it’s one of a very few arenas in New Zealand where you can get as good a feel for the game as you do watching on TV.
So it was the perfect place to get a close up, in the flesh look at just how intense, brutal even, a test match between the All Blacks and the Springboks can be.
The Boks were well up for this one. As if the challenge of taking on their greatest rival wasn’t enough, they were playing to stay alive in the Rugby Championship, playing to quell growing dissatisfaction with their performance and in their coach back home, and in some cases playing for their futures.
They made a powerful start, in which they managed to draw the All Blacks into the sort of trench warfare they crave, and even for a while manage to indulge the New Zealanders in a kicking contest.
They created enough opportunities to at least build a lead, but blew a guilt edged try scoring chance early on, and then missed a succession of goals.
That has led to speculation that there is some kind of evil, unseen wind that wafts around the ends of the stadium, and there does seem to be evidence of a draft effect, but this cannot be blamed for Streyns woes. The man who three years ago booted the All Blacks off the park and out of a three test series has shot his bolt as an international player and simply did not strike the ball with any precision or confidence. The reasons for his continuing selection are a mystery to all but Heyneke Meyer and can no longer be justified.
He was not alone….Ruan Pienaar also kicked woefully out of hand, and time and time again the All Blacks were able to defuse situations because the Boks kept giving them the ball back.
The Springbok backs therefore failed abysmally to capitalise on a magnificent effort by their forward pack, and as a consequence the pack became frustrated and undisciplined.
Chief culprit was of course Dean Greyling, who turned in a sensational cameo, in which he gave away a three point penalty within seconds of arriving on the field, missed a tackle that could have snuffed out Aaron Smiths try before it started, got yellow carded and eventually suspended for an idiotic elbow jolt on Richie McCaw, and then when he returned gave away another penalty that cost his side a bonus point.
But he wasn’t the only guilty party. From my vantage point it was clear that the Boks were on a concerted campaign to neutralise McCaw….the elbow jolt from Greyling was not the only cheap shot he took, and yet somehow he just kept getting up and charging back into the fray.
McCaw’s performance was worthy of the greatest in the long, tough history of the All Blacks and the Springboks.
Like Sean Fitzpatrick before him, McCaw knows how to rile the Boks, and he succeeded in distracting what had been a magnificent forward effort into lapses in discipline that were as big a factor in them losing this test as the goalkicking.
Across the Tasman the Pumas were desperately unlucky not to beat the Wallabies.
You might ask how a team can be considered unlucky when they scored a try after their winger had clearly put his foot into touch in the act of setting up a try?
The referees would have seen that on the big screen, and appeared to me they spent the rest of the game trying to make up for it.
It was another appalling, narcissistic performance from Wayne Barnes, which begs the question if the Pumas would have been better off had that try of theirs not been awarded.
17 Sep 2012, 15:48 pm
@Skeppie-473: common belief is I am a security guard / tattooed maori nightclub bouncer in Kings Cross.
I liek the second one myself, makes me seem tougher
I am in I.T though truth be told.. networking and support.
17 Sep 2012, 15:49 pm
@cab-477: I think he’s 44. And hes, he looks a little rough around the edges, but he’s going to smack the tattoos off Sunni Bin. That much I can tell you.
17 Sep 2012, 15:50 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-466:
Bakkies, It was discussed at length during the RWC when Skinstadt had to apologize for using the term while doing commentary.
17 Sep 2012, 15:53 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-474: i would imagine youre not alone in that assumption
theres an old saying, takes one to know one
17 Sep 2012, 15:55 pm
@Transformation-457: Come now Transie, why do NZ and Australia play a fetcher then?
17 Sep 2012, 15:55 pm
@rangerman-467: fokkof! i’m no coconut, not even close!
and it’s not about “revolution” either.
17 Sep 2012, 15:56 pm
@poppa69-479: Aw man! I liked you more when picturing you as a “Jake da mus” type character (without the wife beating mind you)
17 Sep 2012, 15:59 pm
@willievz-483: that’s another topic altogether…the conclusion you and Grant seem to be drawing from the “stat” that “the boks haven’t lost against the ABs with heinrich playing”, therefore Flo is a pretender is bogus imo…
that’s all.
17 Sep 2012, 15:59 pm
@rangerman-470: you better be!
17 Sep 2012, 16:00 pm
@Transformation-478:
please transie, this sort of thing is not good for my blodd pressure, seriously.
this tony johnson doos makes me strip big time.
“knows how to rile”
fark
@nama1-481:
i missed that nama, and had no idea it was not about taking someone’s head off like a coconut being chopped.
well, that was my idea of it all along.
@poppa69-482:
nice
there’s the poppa i know.
lets keep it real
doos
17 Sep 2012, 16:00 pm
@Transformation-486: Where did I draw that conclusion?
It is an important part of the puzzle, yes, but not the whole picture.
17 Sep 2012, 16:02 pm
@Skeppie-485: jake da muss is a small bloke who couldnt control his missus..
I’ll have none of that, Ive often thought of getting a SA wife, could become a legend in your country as I would be the first to teach you guys how to employ a fetcher
17 Sep 2012, 16:06 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-488: so you see Greyling was “riled up” by Richie
17 Sep 2012, 16:07 pm
I still don’t get it. If coconut is supposed to refer to a black person pretending to be white, what is the insult of a “coconut tackle” meant to imply? That a black player tackles like a white guy? Is that even an insult? Is it supposed to be along the lines of “dancing like a white guy”?
No, I think the phrase meant something else entirely – probably to do with clashing of heads – and because some poor cultural victim saw the word “coconut” and peed herself at the injustice, it has now become racist. Regardless of a complete lack of logic.
And poor old Bobby was forced to apologise, not because he said something nasty, but because he has been exposed to this ludicrous PC sensitivity for so long – where any and everything can and will be called racist – that it’s just easier to say sorry and get it over with.
I mean, even the inhabitants of the coconut islands didn’t know of the term “coconut tackle”, yet felt it necessary to drag it before The Hague. Get over yourselves, you bunch of wet fcken girls’ blouses. Grow some real balls.
17 Sep 2012, 16:07 pm
@Transformation-478: Damn good article.
17 Sep 2012, 16:08 pm
@willievz-489: fine then…it is important to you, but meaningless to me.
17 Sep 2012, 16:09 pm
@poppa69-490: HAHAHA can’t argue with that, just not sure you can handle one of our boeremeisies!
17 Sep 2012, 16:12 pm
@Transformation-486: I rate F Louw highly….
Brussow just slightly better imo…..but Flo is a must have in Brussows absence….imo
17 Sep 2012, 16:13 pm
Skeppie
not sure on the term, but I always knew SA women were the real tough SAs
17 Sep 2012, 16:17 pm
@katman-492:
fark now you’ve got me confused all over again, thats what i was thinking for a while there unitl i allowed the resident ‘kenners’ to sway my thinking.
it doesnt make sense at all. i really thought it was about cracking the tough coconut open, which is to say its about knoching your opponents lights out with a head tackle?
it could also be to do with the people being from coconut islands, as you say, which didn’t even occur to me. in this case it would have derogatory connotation no? ‘because you’re from a coconut island and you make a head high tackle its a coconut tackle’..?..
or perhaps the inference is that the people from the coconut islands only and always make head high tackles?
its obviously got nothing to do with a black player tackling like a white guy.
anyway, i wont use it. i’ll just switch to saying ‘kiwi style head tackle’ seeing as so many of them do it (all kiwis that is).
17 Sep 2012, 16:20 pm
@Transformation-491:
please, if you call constant and repeated penalty infringements by illegally playing the ball on the ground while off your feet and on it at rucks/breakdowns ‘riling up’ then be my guest.
17 Sep 2012, 16:22 pm
i certainly know what the irb rules and laws on the game of rugby call it.
17 Sep 2012, 16:23 pm
@nama1-481:
During the super 15.
Sharks vs Chiefs I think.
17 Sep 2012, 16:27 pm
@katman-492: @i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-498: If we started referring to certain elements of the game as “d.utchman” (for illustrative purposes only) would you guys find offense in it?
different parts of the world view things differently… I do agree that political correctness is creating more problems then its worth though..
the term “clothesline” would have all the kiwi bloggers knowing instantly what you refer to..
there is also a term the “maori sidestep” it does not involve a sidestep at all, but it is not considered derogatory, it is probably considered complimentary.. it means to run over the top of someone.. to moer hulle them? (did I get that right?)
17 Sep 2012, 16:32 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-499: are you saying tony johnson is disingenuous?
17 Sep 2012, 16:34 pm
@poppa69-502: You clearly didn’t even read my post. What is meant to be the insult in the phrase? And don’t tell me the word “coconut”, if the context has nothing to do with a derogatory meaning. Then you might as well ban coconut icing and the ingredients of a pina colada.
Get over your stupid cultural victim mentality – it’s most unbecoming.
17 Sep 2012, 16:34 pm
@gunther-501: Indeed
Masaga on Mvovo….BANG
lights out
17 Sep 2012, 16:36 pm
Perhaps another perspective on Meyer’s performance. People have been going on about his poor selections but I want to compliment him on taking a relatively new pack with very little Test experience to Oz and NZ and winning the game upfront bearing in mind his front row have had an exhausting last few weeks. To do that with the resources available means he must have some idea of what it takes to get the guys to step up. The only problem is he will be reminded time and again of the bugger up in selection he made with Kirchener and Steyn but in all honesty he was hedging his bets and had Steyn kicked those penalties people would have been singing a different tune.
17 Sep 2012, 16:39 pm
@katman-504: what is your problem? the fact that when it was said an islander made the tackle means it could be very much construed to be derogatory..
if you have no concept of that simple fact then I pity you..
17 Sep 2012, 16:40 pm
@poppa69-502:
lmap
maori sidestep
thats funny
no, to moer someone is to hit them with a fist and a poesklap- is to smack their face with an open hand. it could be meant as a gesture or figuratively perhaps if one said ‘the boks moered the ab’s’ without actually hitting them but just by beating them physically at the game.
i’ve never been one for excessive pc unless it is a clear insult to any person personally concerned.
and i have always thought it a really apt description for the action of a head high tackle without understanding its derogatory root. if it wasnt derogatory in how it came about it would have been a good slang word for a head high tackle imo.
pity its lost to me now.
i get your point on people viewing things differently i suppose. my aim was to insult you people (all kiwis) for making disgraceful tackles to the head. and also for getting away with it all to often.
17 Sep 2012, 16:43 pm
@poppa69-507: So if an islander drinks a Pina Colada, it’s best not to mention what’s in it.
Get a fcken grip, Poeps.
If the term had nothing to do with his ethnicity and everything to do with, say, the smashing of skulls, then is it still offensive? Just because you see the word coconut doesn’t make it racist. Not sure if there’s a simpler way to explain it to a challenged reader.
17 Sep 2012, 16:45 pm
@Transformation-503:
first of all, does disingenious mean he is not being genuine or he is being the opposite of a genius?
you know he’s full of bullshitt like they all are wrt to their cheating and how its termed as ‘gamesmanship’ and there being ‘nothing wrong with that’…sort of thing…
that is what i am saying
17 Sep 2012, 16:46 pm
@bananaboy-506: Fair post. Heyneke is primarily a forwards coach and he clearly is doing some decent things with not all the available resources. Our pack were really good this weekend, with Bissie, Etzebeth and Schalk back we will hopefully get beter and better. Now we jsut need a 10 who can tackle and play on the gain line!
17 Sep 2012, 16:48 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-508: okay, so a poesklap is what we would call a b.itchslap
personally I dont have a problem with the term, but Skinstad copped a backlash mainly because the person who made the tackle was Islander, and in this part of the world it is seen as offensive.. So katman can pontificate all he wants, no skin off my nose… same as the B words you used earlier would also be deemed offensive to PI’s, and would have them wanting to moer you..
17 Sep 2012, 16:49 pm
@katman-509:
fark, now i’m confused.
i need to think this over.
@Transformation-505:
those head high tackles are a dime a dozen along with shoulder charges and they are allowed to get away with it. heaven forbid we do the same.
they’d have us up for murder charges before you could say hows your mother.
17 Sep 2012, 16:49 pm
When Richie retires he will be remembered as a legend in New Zealand and as a serial cheat who manipulated refs and got away with it by everyone else.
Simple.
The Kiwis will never get that. They don’t have the ability to have any proper perspective on this.
17 Sep 2012, 16:49 pm
@bananaboy-506: no hedging on bets in international rugby!
morne was booed (wrong i know) in PE for a rubbish performance in June….he lost the Bulls about 4 or 5 games with his errant kicking!
No improvement in Mendoza, he was putrid in Perth…
Meyer is being stubborn because he told all and sundry HE – the messiah – will COACH morne back to form, now he has to concede that he has failed!
Steve Hansen didn’t waste time pulling off Weepu and cutting short Aaron Smith’s punishment and smith repaid him with a dart around the ruck and try.
17 Sep 2012, 16:51 pm
@katman-509: Like I said, the person who made the tackle was a pacific islander, coconut is a derogatory term when speaking of PIs, it is also an ingredient in a drink, but you are trying to compare two very different things.. Skinstad didnt know the connotation, but you get mighty pissed off when I mention the D word, why cant you also then understand that other terms can be offensive to other people?
are you too obstinate to realise this? is your myopic view of the world the only view of the world?
17 Sep 2012, 16:52 pm
@poppa69-512:
yes, thats it… a pk for short.
i would never use those words, but only because i have god in my heart and not because of concerns they might want to moer me
17 Sep 2012, 16:53 pm
Meyer is just THICK
Any coach worth his salt would have cake walked the last 6 games. Its not as if we been so decimated by lack of quality players.. that’s just a smoke screen conducive excuse.
This dude is out of his depth and scribes like Keohane and the razzmatazz rugby aficionado’s round the braai over here not only can’t but DON’T wanna see it.
Meyer will in all likelihood eventually get it right, but it is a painfully LONG way around the simple solution. All his knee jerk reactionary picks have come about through his nose been rubbed in his own idiocy.. and then they want to commend him on learning from his mistakes…
I notice the last two inevitable kicks to the jaw he suffered in the coaches box on Saturday.. the dropped ball by Mcguyver on the try line and then the 3 consecutive penalties offered up by Boks.. one by a wrong call when Flouw was incorrectly pinged for a legitimate steal and the other for a Bekker failure to release on full time and then the ultimate Mcguyver stuff up which took Boks out the bonus point range, Meyer simply shrugged as if his last vestige of boiling blood had reached its zenith of frustration.
He’s going to have to simply grow up in this job.. his one saving grace is perhaps the fact that he’s not nearly as arrogant and cocksure about himself as some other dickheads before him.
17 Sep 2012, 16:54 pm
@stormersboy-514:
Shhhhh.
You’ll wake noodle.
We’ve only just got him down.
17 Sep 2012, 16:54 pm
@372 google “wordpress smileys” so u can
or 
at leisure
17 Sep 2012, 16:54 pm
why was there such an uproar Katman when Skinstad uttered the phrase?
please enlighten me..
17 Sep 2012, 16:55 pm
@stormersboy-514:
which is a pity imho.
and i say that sincerely.
he could have been so much more to the game if he had just played it cleaner.
could have walked away with the respect of the world and not just a tiny island nation.
17 Sep 2012, 16:55 pm
@Skeppie-511: Agreed, still not convinced we have the right skills-set in the backline with JDV out of position (I still think he’s either a 12 or a wing) The scrumhalf/flyhalf pairing not suited to each other (think that Pienaar with Goosen would be much better) and the fullback not the most innovative player on the planet (does a lot of things well but nothing outstanding). I would honestly consider:
Pienaar
Goosen
Hougaard/Movovo
JDV
JDJ
JPP
Frans Steyn.
The reason being this gives JDV perhaps a bit more time on the ball than at outside from set play ball and he can be equally as good as Steyn on the crash ball.
17 Sep 2012, 16:56 pm
and i mean that from the heart
no trolling
my two cents
17 Sep 2012, 16:56 pm
@katman-509:
I think Ranger called it right with the Lima.
17 Sep 2012, 16:56 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-522: Thing is, without that side to him he’d just be another Josh Kronfeld wannabe.
17 Sep 2012, 16:57 pm
@stormersboy-514:
17 Sep 2012, 16:59 pm
@Transformation-515: You miss the gist of what I was trying to say. Castigate him all you want for picking Morne but what would have happened if we had had another coach picking Goosen at flyhalf and not getting nearly as much domination upfront. His game plan would have worked on Sat if Morne had succeeded with his kicks is all I’m saying and you cannot fault him for what he has achieved with those forwards.
17 Sep 2012, 16:59 pm
@fitz1ella-518:
Yes yes yes you have told everyone a thousand times.
You know everything and he knows nothing.
Which is why he’s a rugby coach and you install wendy houses.
17 Sep 2012, 16:59 pm
its very different to say, this is a pin colada, it has pineapple juice, rum and coconut in it..
to this
this is Sione, he’s a coconut..
so I hope this challenged reader has taught you something about context..
17 Sep 2012, 17:00 pm
rock spider isn’t a racist term either but some cocooned clowns here will get so offended by the term they’ll try call it ‘hate speech’
little peanut brained moron’s pretending to be intelligent.. that just takes the cake of the anglicized ******** trying to pass himself off as being slightly ‘educated’ so he converses in a so called ‘enlightened’ tongue other than his own.
17 Sep 2012, 17:01 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-517: can’t constantly call people “filthy scum” with God in your heart, surely?
17 Sep 2012, 17:01 pm
@poppa69-516: You seriously are slow, Poeps. No offense, but just about anyone would have grasped it by now. Last time:
The word coconut wasn’t meant to imply a race or culture, but the clashing of heads. The fact that the tackler was a PI is neither here nor there.
If there was a technique in traditional clog fighting called the Bloody D.utchman, because of it’s cultural connotations, and an Afrikaner employed this technique in a clog fight, and a commentator remarked at such a fine example of a Bloody D.utchman, would that be a racial insult?
Think carefully now.
17 Sep 2012, 17:02 pm
@stormersboy-526:
a mix of things then.
a well drilled squad of talented players at peak fitness and physical condition with top notch skills training and astute coaches… sure.. i give them that
BUT
and yip, its a big but…. without them playing the low stuff, and its not just macaw who does it, i mean the concerted organised team stuff then its up for debate whether they would have had the great winning legacy they have
and this in turn would call into question their greatness as a team in other peoples eyes.
17 Sep 2012, 17:02 pm
@poppa69-521: Because of useless, sensitive Oprah-like ***** like yourself, Poeps. This much is surely clear.
17 Sep 2012, 17:03 pm
@bananaboy-506: nah Morne is pure kak and I will always sing that song until the day he goes.
17 Sep 2012, 17:04 pm
In my experience the phrase “cocnut” is usually used in context where someone who is black (or an islander if you will over there) is jealous of someone els’s advancement or their wealth etc.
Ie used to accuse someone of losing touch with their “roots” when the feelings usually stem from jealousy.
17 Sep 2012, 17:05 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-534: Yes, 100% agree with you.
17 Sep 2012, 17:05 pm
@poppa69-521: the same reason some in SA displayed their “stupid cultural victim mentality” when luke watson was reported to have “allegedly” used the D-word in a speech…
stupid is as stupid does.
17 Sep 2012, 17:05 pm
@stormersboy-526:
i mean if say the ab’s under henry had won perhaps 70 to 75% of their matches but had done so cleanly as opposed to the 80%+ they have in the manner they have (how much is it?) then perhaps the world opinion of them would indeed have been higher than it is now?
without a doubt it would have been for me.
17 Sep 2012, 17:06 pm
@Transformation-532:
they are the devils work, transie
17 Sep 2012, 17:07 pm
@bananaboy-528: yes he’s done well but the “hedging of bets” is unwarranted when the said player has been rubbish the whole year…what is he trying to prove at our expense?
17 Sep 2012, 17:07 pm
@gunther-529: Ain’t it just ‘strange’ that pretty much everything I alluded to from the outset of the messiahs tenure has basically ‘come to pass’.. Pretty much almost everything
But suddenly there is an entire chorus of ja broers who have just become absolute exceptional rugby aficionado’s all of a sudden.. ticking all the ‘right boxes’ about which players should be picked ahead of the Messiahs selections…
Yet only a few weeks ago the messiah was doing it correctly and knew exactly what he’s about… so which is it ja broer.. does he or does he NOT know which way is up or down?
17 Sep 2012, 17:09 pm
@katman-533: youre the slow one katman…depends on the audience surely? like I said, Skinstad was being televised to people all over the world, the connotation of a coconut tackle meaning the smashing of heads IN SA is completely different to the connotation of what a coconut tackle means to those in Australasia..
is this really sucvh a hard concept to grasp?
but continue with your mightier thqan thou attitude…
you have obviously never travelled outside your own country, do you know that some hand gestures have completely different meanings in different cultures? could it be possible that certain phrase in one part of the world may have a different literal meaning in another part of the world?
but moving on, you obviously know all and have extensive worldwide experience and are too big a man to admit I have a valid point..
as you where..
17 Sep 2012, 17:10 pm
I would say the record is consistent with a coach fixing basics first and moving on to the fancy stuff in due course.
17 Sep 2012, 17:11 pm
@fitz1ella-543: You haven’t offered one single original thought here, you phony wanker. You just regurgitate others’ opinions in your unique potty mouth and hope that people don’t pick up on your plagiarism. Which explains the bipolar flippety floppety nature of your Visionary Insights.
17 Sep 2012, 17:14 pm
righty
i’m out
cheers folks
p.s. what is the term for a super rugby union thats white on the outside but black on the inside? because i sure as hell might be swearing at that team come the cc playoffs…
that’s for you transie… BOOM!
17 Sep 2012, 17:14 pm
@stormersboy-537: there are are “coconuts” who don’t have s.hit on me mate…elsewhere in the world they were referred to as “uncle toms”.
advancement does not = white folk!
one can “advance” without adopting anyone else’s mannerisms.
#jussayin
17 Sep 2012, 17:14 pm
@poppa69-544: The point here is that it didn’t actually mean anything in your culture. The phrase seemingly didn’t exist, as was widely reported at the time. No one there had heard of a coconut tackle. But, sweet lord have mercy, it contained the word coconut. And thus you assumed it must have been evil. Typical victim mentality. The world is so bored with that rubbish.
17 Sep 2012, 17:17 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-547: you are exposing you ignorance
cheers
17 Sep 2012, 17:18 pm
@katman-549: I assumed it must be evil? I didnt assume anything, Im Maori, it wasnt me who complained about it.. it was PI’s…
but anyways, I understand that once a racist always a racist, you cant help yourself..
next time youre with PI’s (I doubt that would happen tbh), call one a coconut… see where it gets you..
17 Sep 2012, 17:20 pm
@Transformation-548: I expected you to jump all over this.
So are you then advocating that we all keep our cultures totally apart, without adopting any mannerisms of the other?
“Separate Development” of a different kind perhaps??
NO mate, the concept is used to insult someone who they feel has left them behind in a way and is almost always uttered by someone with a chip or inferiority complex. Whether it’s coconut here or uncle tom over there.
17 Sep 2012, 17:20 pm
@Transformation-548:
How do you mean they don’t have **** on you?
17 Sep 2012, 17:23 pm
@poppa69-551: So PI’s are offended by coconuts, but Maoris aren’t? Anything else we should be aware of? Top deck chocolate? Cappuccinos? Zebras?
Someone should write a guide to South Pacific sensitivities. Definitely a gap there.
17 Sep 2012, 17:26 pm
We are much closer to NZ / AUS than we think.
Biggest issue past 2 months have been EXPECTATION MANAGEMENT:
1. HM, naively so, set the bar extremely high in year 1 – did not need to do that.
2. Supporters were so happy to finally get a coach we all wanted, that we also set the bar unrealistically high.
HM will get it right, only Q of time.
But he needs to shed the Morne and Zane hair asap…
17 Sep 2012, 17:28 pm
@katman-554: like I said, next time you are with someone of PI extraction, who you dont know well at all, call him a coconut..
see what the response you get is..
it’s like calling a black man the N word, or the K word…
I understand you have no problem with it because you probably still use those terms under your breath..
17 Sep 2012, 17:30 pm
Reluctant to raise this as we’ve only just gotten rid of John Smit, but is JDV really fit enough to play the full 80 anymore?
17 Sep 2012, 17:31 pm
@Yetirat-557: valid question
17 Sep 2012, 17:31 pm
@stormersboy-552: your expectations don’t concern me…
you’re being daft on purpose i assume…i can advance whicever way i want but i for example don’t have to adopt the mannerisms of a pom business partner of mine or indian or chinese and vice versa…
him advancing is not reliant or hinged on him acting like a xhosa/zulu/tswana person just to please whoever he deems to hold the key to “advancement”
we can advance as diverse as we are…
unity in diversity!
what you maybe missing is how these adopted mannerisms are projected as some form of enligthenment when in most cases it is just plain assimilation.
it can be harmless and it can be vexing depending on the individual.
17 Sep 2012, 17:36 pm
@gunther-553: i envy nothing of their…stormersboy is trying to purport that the label is used by envious and jealous people meanwhile kids who grow up in the same neighbourhood and the other is switched to let’s say sacs or selborne, next thing he comes back on some acquired mannerism steelo, mimicking his new schoolmates and reckons this makes him somewhat superior to the same mates he grew up with…then he is displaying coconut behaviour…
17 Sep 2012, 17:39 pm
@stormersboy-552: this behaviour has been seen even on people who go to london for 2 years and come back with a full on POM accent – black & white…it is just laughable!
be yourself, that’s all.
17 Sep 2012, 17:39 pm
gym calls.
17 Sep 2012, 17:41 pm
@Transformation-561: OK. Carry on then.
17 Sep 2012, 17:58 pm
Stormersboy and Bakkies
Honest question.
Do refs find it more difficult to spot cheating by the ABs because they play in a black kit?
Black blends in more with its own colour than any other same colour combination. Could this, visually, impact the way the ref sees the breakdown / bodies on the ground?
17 Sep 2012, 18:12 pm
@willievz-564: No it’s the same as Man United who get more questionable penalties at home in their favour than any other club. It’s a combination of a well orchestrated PR and a winning culture which implies that they are doing it correctly and this plays on the psyche of the refs.
I call it the man U effect.
Those that complain, usually only after a loss give the impression of sour grapes and all too often when we win in spite of the cheating we don’t complain. Which we should.
17 Sep 2012, 18:15 pm
@bananaboy-528: yeah truth be told as limited as it is meyerball actually worked at the weekend, the kickers just fluffed their lines
17 Sep 2012, 18:17 pm
@willievz-564: referees are all afraid of the dark
17 Sep 2012, 18:17 pm
‘Almal van julle sit die pot mis soos gewoontlik want julle is mos almal net ‘ a lovely bunch of coconuts for daring to think you had a semblance of a chance to win this test..
You never ever looked likely do do so.
The game was merely competitive and there are factors on both sides that explain that.
Firstly, RSA had its desperate backs firmly against the wall and played with the ‘boere gees’ that any underdog/dalmation has against a RWC Champion but when things do not go their way that ‘gees’ becomes snuffed out with time.
Secondly, the ABs uncharacteristically are playing overcautious RWC KO rugby and not their normal trinations-type rugby.
The reason for that is because they are getting mentally bogged down by the unbeaten streak as it approaches the magic number of 18 and they as RWC Champs want to win the very first Rugby Championship. In short they are restricting themselves but as the fundis know ” no person can fool himself ” ever.
‘Maar nou ja julle weet mos hou om onder mekaar lekker te lieg om moed in te skep.’
Even though the Spring equinox is fast approaching it still is September morns that I like.
17 Sep 2012, 18:25 pm
@Johannes_Lombard-555: good points. It needed one goodish effort for the total pessimism to disappear. Now it is hopefully a matter of time for HM to get a few selections right.
The ironic thing is he always going to try out the forward with a few players he rates. There has never or very very rarely been a total unanimous team selection at anytime anyplace.
He picked the teams. A couple of them downright didn’t do their part. What can he do except take note and move forward.
Saturdays game was exactly what he meant by executing properly,, one could expect better results. Sure the game plan is still not beautiful. – where you’re saying get the basics right…. when they have this closer to 80-90% – we should start seeing alot more ruck balls getting out to the centres and wings.
17 Sep 2012, 18:28 pm
If your nollocks are khaki and you know it clap your hands.
17 Sep 2012, 18:29 pm
@Neilanate-568: expect a very restricting PK splitting your collective coconut in Soccer City.
17 Sep 2012, 18:31 pm
I just trawled through 600 posts of coconut kuk
17 Sep 2012, 18:32 pm
@Neilanate-568: Glad you like September mormons. I do believe HG has a birthday coming up on the 27th.
17 Sep 2012, 18:32 pm
I see Hansen being overhauled by Meyer in the second straight,, to be left behind for dead in the last 200m.
17 Sep 2012, 18:33 pm
Watsup Shooter
17 Sep 2012, 18:33 pm
@Dawn-572: it will drive your bobotie bananas
17 Sep 2012, 18:35 pm
You leave my bobotie alone
17 Sep 2012, 18:39 pm
@Dawn-575: Chillin. I was in CT the other day. Wanted to buy you coffee. But time was none.
Did go out to a serious health hazard restaurant of note – called Da Gama’s – i think -in Greenpoint. Do you know it?
17 Sep 2012, 18:41 pm
@Heavens Game-227: LOL
17 Sep 2012, 18:42 pm
@shooter-569: Not trying to to piddle on the positivity parade…but explain how it takes a man 7 games to see certain players are not on form? And dare to dream, but you and I both know there is no ways Morne Steyn will be dropped for the Loftus test…it’s not going to happen.
And at altitude he might just manage an average instead of utterlyfuckingwoeful performance….. What then? The fans cheer and all is good in the world?
The next absolutely nightmarish thought is that Spies will probably be fit and ready for selection and that alone is enough to cause cardiac distress if not arrest.
The only thing that is going to give Bok fans any confidence, is if Meyer manages to poke his head out from his sleeping bag, and make a few hard calls.
He has honestly ruined Morne Steyn mentally, and he needs to man up and admit it.
17 Sep 2012, 18:43 pm
Yep I know it. Us coconuts don’t go there!
17 Sep 2012, 18:47 pm
We go to Ocean Basket. No health hazards, lekker every time.
17 Sep 2012, 18:51 pm
@katman-546: hahaha well said, I have tried a couple of times to comment on his posts but the utter senseless ranting often leaves me speechless. Thanks katman this has made my day!
17 Sep 2012, 18:53 pm
PEDANTIC.SORRY.MARCELLE is a girls name.Drop the E and 1 L
and it is MARCEL E at the end of a word usually indicates Female.HG will
confirm
17 Sep 2012, 18:55 pm
I always thought coconut refered to a nut that hangs high in a tree
Head high = coconut high !
Wtf has black got to do with it?
17 Sep 2012, 18:55 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-580: I don’t know if it for sure that he will pick Morne to start.
I agree 100% that some-one so totally out-off form as Morne, is , should be dropped.
I wonder though… why so many coaches persist with players for so long.
Catch 22, drop him and he will be worse off for losing his place, play him and he drops himself,, then he’s supposedly mentally ruined. Nah, Morne should just go and play and play some until he is back in shape.
Meyer will be wiser to drop him now,,, now that he only has himself to blame. Previously we could’ve said he didn’t get frontfoot ball… not the past game. He is the one guy that is supposed to make the current version of HM’s game plan work… Bull/Bull combo they were. So, no, he had a (green and) golden opportunity and blew it. If it wasn’t after a series of shaky performances no-one would have been so hard on him.
In fact, he came into the squad on the back of exactly a similar public protest after Ruan Pienaar.
So he should be able to take it. He knows HM likes him,,, so regain form, and come back in the right mindspace.
Hopefully HM can figure all this out too. He should really, for the sake of both of them.
HM has been somewhat honest and forthcoming in his analysis, to be fair. He actually also said back in SA some tough calls will probably be made…. So let’s see.
17 Sep 2012, 18:56 pm
@shooter-578:
Love go?ng to Da Gama, they serve a great Tr!nchado.
S!m!lar spot !n the c!ty called D!as Tavern.
17 Sep 2012, 18:57 pm
@NZINCHINA-384: Be gracious in victory as well as in defeat.That is the right way..
17 Sep 2012, 19:01 pm
@Dawn-582: Somebody should go and inspect that place. It stinks. literally.
Ocean basket, really?! I thought those in the know go the hawe or have a conneco from the sea.
Being from Verre Noord we don’t get good fish markets you know.
You should take advantage of the opportunity.
17 Sep 2012, 19:02 pm
Same with d.utchman, is a term that refer to people of d.utch decent.
And to those idiots calling every Afrikaans speaking person a d.utchman, you do know that not all Afrikaans speaking people are decendant from d.utch.
Heyneke Meyer is probably from Germany
17 Sep 2012, 19:06 pm
@Jeraldjay-587: That place stinks of rot/ muispis. their trinchado is atrocious too. Bleak looking and tasteles. I didn’t really eat much of it.
Funny thing is, everyone else seemed to be too polite to mention the state of the food and the place in general. Keiser se klere.
17 Sep 2012, 19:06 pm
@cab-441: The humility from both sides is astonishing.
17 Sep 2012, 19:08 pm
@shooter-586: You know what mate. I hope so, for Morne’s sake. Whatever he is an isn’t on the rugby field at the moment, he is a decent fellow and a loyal servant of Bulls and SA rugby. He has not selected himself, and in fact, Meyer has set him up to fail bigtime, by heaping the pressure on him in the media with all of his so-called praise of him.
Nah, Morne is in a sh y tty place at the moment, when I guess all he has been trying to do is repay Meyer’s faith in him.
Meyer has disappointed me in this regard. After hearing what a great leader and motivator he is, he fuckswithMorne’s mind in a pretty cruel way….(considering all the hate mail Morne is getting…)
He has done Morne a huge injustice as far as I am concerned. (As well as those sitting on the bench watching Steyn blunder his way through test after test…)
17 Sep 2012, 19:08 pm
As was so emphatically predicted before September dawned, this first Rugby Championship is dead and buried and the trophy will take its place alongside the RWC and devalue it as this SH Championship is far more demanding to acquire than the RWC.
For the Aussies to win it they will need to win both(and 1 with a bonus pt.) games remaining but are more likely to lose at least 1 of those games.
The remaining challenger needs also to win both but both with scoring 4 tries. These days they cannot even score with fat hookers in Dock Rd., Green Point.
All of either scenario needs the Kiwis not to pick up losing bonus points(and/or or 4 tries) in both games – not ever likely to happen.
So hail the winners of the very first Rugby Championship.
17 Sep 2012, 19:08 pm
@rangerman-446: KARMA
17 Sep 2012, 19:10 pm
Don’t worry Shooter. We always take advantage of the opportunity!
17 Sep 2012, 19:14 pm
Just over 40% success rate – one of the worst in SA history.
The whole of SA saw the problem, don’t come with any excuses please…
How can anyone see any positives with such a win ratio…
17 Sep 2012, 19:16 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-593: Thats the way it works sometimes. Just when you think it can not get any worse,, it does. Sure Morne will acknowledge it’s a tough time. But I won’t pin this on HM just yet.
Morne came out of S15 not on top form. He was backed. What more can he ask for.
Never in either’s dreams, would Morne have had such a bad game/ off day. They’re pro. They should deal with it. Don’t they have mental coaches and all that.
17 Sep 2012, 19:16 pm
@Gumboots-597: I think it is a very positive win percentage mate
17 Sep 2012, 19:16 pm
@Transformation-478: Thank you.A good article.
17 Sep 2012, 19:17 pm
@poppa69-599:
I’m sure you do!
17 Sep 2012, 19:17 pm
@Gumboots-597: two draws, two losses, two wins. thats the scenario.
17 Sep 2012, 19:18 pm
plus one win, actually.
17 Sep 2012, 19:19 pm
@shooter-591:
Da Gama’s !n Green Po!nt !s a Cape Town !nst!tut!on.
I’ve been go!ng for years, and have always had a great t!me.
Never exper!enced the ‘bad odour’ you referr!ng to so maybe you went on an off day.
Anyway you ent!tled to have your own op!n!on.
17 Sep 2012, 19:19 pm
@Neilanate-594: not going to happen
nz have long ago wrapped this up!
17 Sep 2012, 19:19 pm
Heineken ‘Bier’ Meyer is a typical lying disloyal coach from the North.
He thinks only about his own ego and thus to save that image of being perceived to be ‘great’ he is prepared to throw to the wolves 2 of his erstwhile most staunchest servants from even the Bulls. But then nothing about that is difficult to assimilate.
Just give attention to his name and tell me how different that is from B.low J.ob Vorster or Piet Wapen Botha or Lang Neus Koornhof or Pik D ik Botha? It all lies in the ‘oertjie’.
17 Sep 2012, 19:19 pm
@shooter-602:
Shocking yes! Read an article somewhere – I think only Carel has a worse record after 7 games.
17 Sep 2012, 19:20 pm
@shooter-602:
3 wins
17 Sep 2012, 19:20 pm
@ 557.?Yetirat
No, Jean is getting slower, looks jaded, doesn’t “work” refs convincingly. HM must appoint a new captain, so there’s competition for the 13 jersey. Besides Jean’s so injury prone, he’s setting some sort of personal best for consecutive matches played
17 Sep 2012, 19:20 pm
@shooter-602: horrible record!
17 Sep 2012, 19:20 pm
@ryecatcher-600: it was decent until the last couple of sentences. Barnes is an irb elite ref and stay an elite ref because he’s one of the best in the world at what he does, they need to let it go.
17 Sep 2012, 19:21 pm
@Mr Black-608:
Ja 40 something % win ratio. Carel had 37% I think…
17 Sep 2012, 19:22 pm
@Gumboots-597: Fuckkitman. How can seeing an innocent ’40%’ in print cause such pain…..
17 Sep 2012, 19:22 pm
@Big Hit-611: all you need now is a silver steed and you can come riding in to save good Waynes name..
17 Sep 2012, 19:23 pm
@papaown-605:
But that’s what I say in that post.
Anyway I am off to a soccer meeting.
17 Sep 2012, 19:23 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-613:
A fail in everyones book I think… Unless we have extremely low standards…
17 Sep 2012, 19:24 pm
And for non-discrimination sake. Can we all in future add every player’s francise/ province after his name. Example:
Jdup Shark had a much better game.
Strauss Cheetah made alot of meters.
etc etc.
I don’t remember everybody saying in the past…
Matfield/ Rossouw/ Bakkies/ Du Preez/ Morne/ Hougaard/ etc etc from Pretoria had a very good game…
But now that the coach happens to be an ex Bull… the players’ province must be dragged in.
Flip from Pretoria actually played better as the game went on..
Habana the ex Lion ex Bull now Province player scored a nice try…
17 Sep 2012, 19:24 pm
@Gumboots-612:
Terrible!
17 Sep 2012, 19:25 pm
@viewer-609: i disagree
we cannot make any judgements on our backline’s players ability until MS is not starting!
just last week you fickle bunch were calling for Frans Steyn to be axed…so am not going to buy into the hysteria calling for the Captains head
17 Sep 2012, 19:26 pm
@gunther-529: Omniscient.
17 Sep 2012, 19:26 pm
@Gumboots-616: eish, a third and fourth straight loss would not be good I imagine?
17 Sep 2012, 19:27 pm
@Mr Black-618:
Indeed!!!
17 Sep 2012, 19:27 pm
572.?Dawn said: ?
17 Sep 2012, 18:31 pm I just trawled through 600 posts of coconut kuk
17 Sep 2012, 19:28 pm
Jissie Pops don’t you ever sleep
Meh
17 Sep 2012, 19:28 pm
One thing I just don’t catch. He could have kept his beloved Morne on the pitch but why he didn’t let taking the kicks by someone else?
Fransie Steyn is not the most relaible kicker, but there was Ruan. He was a kicking king in Heineken Cup – above 90% and most of his kicks were difficult long distance ( 57 – 60 metres even ) high pressure kicks. I don’t know if he slotted them on Sat. but the risk of trying Ruan was none. It seems that HM wanted Morne to become the hero so much that he even surrendered the game. It,s pure nonsense. If we had captain like John S. on the day we all know what would happen..
17 Sep 2012, 19:28 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-613: that’s like Juju’s woodwork score….
17 Sep 2012, 19:29 pm
@poppa69-621:
Well the Ozzies have our number and so do the AB’s… I wouldn’t be surprised. It would be a Gausmash…
17 Sep 2012, 19:29 pm
@Neilanate-615: soccer meeting?? wtf
17 Sep 2012, 19:29 pm
@Gumboots-607: Jaja. I’m not where you are yet. Maybe I will never get there.
But we can honestly have this conversation again after EOYT, including the last two RC games, I expect fully that it will look different, don’t you?
17 Sep 2012, 19:30 pm
@gunther-529: My wife,whom I love dearly,
sees herself as the fount of ALL KNOWLEDGE,WISDOM &UNDERSTANDING.
Pretenders__Queue starts in the Drakensberg.
17 Sep 2012, 19:32 pm
@Jeraldjay-604: I’ll send my representative to make sure. That’s also what I heard before we went there, a group of about 15 people. Maybeeeee. But everything on the plates was suspect that night.
17 Sep 2012, 19:33 pm
@Dawn-624: nope, I live to remind you saffas that you are a full 8 points behind us on the rankings table
that we are world champions
that we should be crowned TRC inaugural winners in the next few weeks
that Aussie have beaten you 7 out of the last 8 games
that we are now 14 games ahead on the head to head tally
that we have won 31 of the last 44 games against you
that I do this task with gusto and passion is an added bonus
17 Sep 2012, 19:34 pm
@shooter-629:
Mate I’ve been hoping for so long and everytime someone says lets wait and see. This is the present mate and let’s wait and see just don’t gell with me anymore…
17 Sep 2012, 19:35 pm
Gordon Ramsay to Da Gama’s
17 Sep 2012, 19:37 pm
moerse
17 Sep 2012, 19:38 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-580: MORNE will play.Bet all you have on it.
17 Sep 2012, 19:40 pm
@ryecatcher-636:
Wrist slitting statement mate…
17 Sep 2012, 19:41 pm
@shooter-631:
Never been there !n the even!ng always for lunch.
Should also try D?as Tavern ?n the c?ty espec?ally on a Fr!day for lunch.
17 Sep 2012, 19:41 pm
So Pops what’s this “meh” you always using
17 Sep 2012, 19:42 pm
@ 619.?papaown said: ?
17 Sep 2012, 19:25 pm
In the space of a couple of weeks first he was called for his “party trick” forward pass & now this past weekend he threw a forward pass into touch with no pressure on him. Still maintain the most valuable players in HM’s plans are Willem Alberts & Frans Steyn, & Bismarck
17 Sep 2012, 19:42 pm
@shooter-635: @poppa69-632: crowing like a castrated chicken fed on cocunuts.
@Dawn-634: maybe they cleaned up a little. I didn’t eat, had a lot of beers to compensate and told the manager what I thought at the time. anyway. enough of them. no gain or campaign.
17 Sep 2012, 19:46 pm
Dawn I extend an olive branch. Apology for making fun of Ricardo Loubscher’s looks. Was a low blow stereotype of coloured people. I am a PDI too
17 Sep 2012, 19:46 pm
Never trust a restauranst older than 75 years
17 Sep 2012, 19:48 pm
@Dawn-639: its a sign of indifference Dawn..
@shooter-641: hilarious, still got the past coursing through your veins huh?
17 Sep 2012, 19:48 pm
@poppa69-621: Can I be honest. I would happily take a win over the Aussies, and a draw/loss against the Kiwis IF and only IF, I see a breaking of the shackles, a brave selection or 2 and a sign (anyfuckingsign) that the backline has been given a little more attention in training (they have been neglected in criminal fashion). Selection and backline might go hand in hand though = No 9 and 10, and perhaps a reshuffle of positions 12, 13 and 15.
Even 2 wins, if begotten in a way that shows no deviation from what has come before will bring me little satisfaction. It will only be plastering cracks with cheap polyfilla.
17 Sep 2012, 19:50 pm
Meyer will get it right… eventually.. he’ll have to go 3 times round the block before he realizes what it takes when a normal set of simple straight forward deductions could have done it in a quarter of the time and the anxiety..
Only problem is it takes a d’tchman twice as long as normal human sapiens to cotton onto what’s what before they suddenly ‘see the light’
ask some these little fakearse anglicized pseudo d’tchman creeps like katmankunty here .. he’ll tell you exactly how long it takes..
like a few centuries before they catch up to the rest of the universe with their last century eyes wide shut half english – half boertjie retrograde pseudo non intelligent ‘awakenings’
17 Sep 2012, 19:51 pm
@ryecatcher-636: I know…..and add to that the return of the sugar plum fairy Spies…..
Ohforfuckssakes. When do we Bok fans actually get a lucky break?
17 Sep 2012, 19:51 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-645: can understand your frustration… backline had the same problems they had at the WC, poor passing and handling skills, it really cost you guys both games… for international players they should be proficient at passing the ball while in motion…
17 Sep 2012, 19:57 pm
@tedanica-625: thats what is soo frustrating about HM
he is soo devoid of logic with his selections!
17 Sep 2012, 19:58 pm
Once again
I ain’t no Bok fan
He messed with Siya.
17 Sep 2012, 19:59 pm
What is it actually with this backward degenerate thinking… are they THAT far stuck in hereditary deficiency to actually REALIZE what works and what don’t in a simple little non enlightened escapade like selecting players correctly to carry out a feasible strategy in a thick as three brick game like rugby?
Then they come along AFTER the fact and try sell you the bullshit story that they knew what was cutting all along.. but their actions and words decry their feeble fallacies they tried spinning through their clenched teeth in outright dislocated denial.
17 Sep 2012, 20:01 pm
Jisterday. If your people’s week starts like this on a Monday, I can’t imagine how the rest of the week will pan out.
I’ve said it before. A tweak here, a tweak there and we’ll be A ok.
No need to slash your wrists just yet. We’re closer than you think.
17 Sep 2012, 20:02 pm
Hmmmmmmmm, 19 Morne Steyn fans have voted now…
17 Sep 2012, 20:02 pm
@poppa69-648: That’s the problem with 10 man rugby. The rest are simply there to make up the numbers…nothing more.
If we continue with the 10 man rumble, it actually makes no difference who plays from 11 to 15…..Smurfs, garden gnomes, Barney and friends, they would all perform the same as what we currently have.
17 Sep 2012, 20:03 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-653: Rather say 10 Kiwis and 9 Aussies have voted now….
17 Sep 2012, 20:04 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-654:
If Morne doesn’t start at Loftus then HM can expect words from me. With Hougie as his SH.
17 Sep 2012, 20:05 pm
I ain’t no Bok fan
I would rather back Argentina
17 Sep 2012, 20:06 pm
@I am a stormer-656:
I meant if Morne does start – vokkenhel. My week is going south like the rest of yours.
17 Sep 2012, 20:09 pm
@I am a stormer-652: the die hard believer.. you and shooter .. and some the other half of this half of that not quite sure which side of the great divide they actually wanna hang their half synchronized hat on
you wanna believe so bad.. just like most the lost poor half of nothing halfwits that still trying to recreate the famous SA rugby tradition religion..
Its a fake.. it don’t exist.. its doomed to extinction.. when will these poor boertjies realize that as much as they NEED to identify with some kind of superior breeding it went out with the last vestiges of Nat King Cry me a river singing Tula Mama Tula Baba on Broadway
17 Sep 2012, 20:10 pm
@I am a stormer-658:
Was wa!t!ng for you to f!x that post.
17 Sep 2012, 20:11 pm
Sheez if only Fuckadilly was in charge.
We could expect fifteen different players every Saturday depending on what the elders a the the Fishoek Spur Salad Valley Delection Panel saw in in their Baksamic and Olive oil forecasting bowl.
Teem sheets would be delivered via Ouijia Boatd 10 minutes before kickoff.
17 Sep 2012, 20:11 pm
who says he’s going to see the light, maybe he sees a different light, dont speak too soon, wait for the aussie test at loftus, next thing u see a virtually unchanged team. maybe he says too hell with everyone else’s light and we be stuck with 4 years of hardegat kick kick kick trying to build a bloubul-like empire, in fact if some of the rumours are to believed, they actually approached FdP to come back as captain for EOY tours, then ou doosie will pull a triple bypass backflip on the spot.
17 Sep 2012, 20:12 pm
@Dawn-657: so you wanna chuck your toys with the cash crusaders … its a lonely place wanting to belong but not having anyone or anything to belong to…
that how adam got seduced by eve not knowing if he were being offered a guava or a pomegranate
17 Sep 2012, 20:13 pm
@Dawn-657: pap-beks, brokebacks and capecrusaders can cheer for who they like – just not the Boks.
Capiche.
17 Sep 2012, 20:16 pm
@Dawn-657:
For the foreseeable future?
17 Sep 2012, 20:19 pm
@gunther-661: That’s “The Defenders of Fish Hoek” you’re talking about, right?
Makes sense, he’s probably one of them.
17 Sep 2012, 20:20 pm
@cab-662:
If FDP played on Saturday we would have won.
He would be the perfect mentor for the Goose.
Our scrumhalf depth !s kak at the moment.
…. Okay br!ng !t on….
17 Sep 2012, 20:20 pm
If Fuckadilly were in charge there would be none of this vacillating between do we play Morne or Lambie or Jantjies or Pienaar or Hougaard or Kirchner or Spies or Daniel or Vermeulen
There would be a clear cut strategy of taking the game to the opposition and blistering them with outright straight as an arrow decimation .. and kicking to the skies as a weapon of milking mistakes as an option would be the last resort.. not the first.
17 Sep 2012, 20:21 pm
@fitz1ella-659:
I’ve said plenty give the oke a bit of breathing space. Sure, he’s making mistakes with some selections. But the fuckups like dropped passes, poor passes,missed tackles, pisspoor goal kicking cannot be blamed on a coach sitting high up in the stands.
It is now time for the players to pull finger. The coach can only do so much.
17 Sep 2012, 20:22 pm
@Jeraldjay-667: WRONG !!
FdP Played the LAST how many games with Morne under Smit and Matfield in this EXACT same DEFICIENT kick chase game plan?
HOW MANY GAMES did we WIN ??
HOW MANY.??. please go and COUNT THEM
17 Sep 2012, 20:24 pm
I think the Boks have improved amongst the forwards and Heyneke is probably largely responsible for this. My problem with Meyer is that he is not a backline coach. He never was, even under Nick Mallett he coached only the forwards.
The Boks current backline coach, Ricardo Loubser, is IMHO not an international coach and has never coached at this level. Ricardo can stay where he is, but it will help a lot if any coach like Carlos Spencer and/or David Campese and/or Eddie Jones could assist Ricardo.
17 Sep 2012, 20:32 pm
@I am a stormer-669: BULLSHIT
Coach is setting the paradigms and the standards.. Coach is setting the status quo of HOW the team is approaching each and every game, the selections AND the strategy…
You wanna bet that EVERY single game we played this year was a GIMME for and EASY win.. if he simply firstly selected CORRECTLY and secondly played to the PLAYERS STRENGTHS.. NOT this bullshit LAST century kick and pray goddamn GARBAGE..!!!
SA rugby is STUCK in a game style from PRIOR to WC 2007 with OLD obsolete rugby strategies under laws which do not even apply anymore.. and STILL they wanna try hammer a square BRICK into a round hole .. and KEEP on FAILING..!!!
Count how many games Boks have won in the past 3 years with this self SAME archaic DEFICIENT dead end strategy…
Go fetcdh Fdp and Matfield and Smit and J. Fourie and however you THINK is going to change this deficient spiral of downward trajectory.. it will NOT change a THING..
The entire game plan has to swing from a negative deficient fear ridden conservative COWARDLY one into a forward thinking pro active BRAVE one..
Simple..
With the players currently available Boks should CLEAN up Wallabies and AB’s easily.. but this coach is STUCK like a old hat record in a groove he simply CANNOT think his way out of
Unless somebody helps him and he’s big enough to realize this game plan he’s chasing is a FAT non conforming MISTAKE that will not evolve anywhere he might then eventually realize his poor strategy won’t work and climb out the hole he dug for himself from the beginning.
17 Sep 2012, 20:33 pm
@fitz1ella-663:
> that how adam got seduced by eve not knowing if he were being offered a guava or a pomegranate
She offered him an apple
If she offered him her guava he would have provided the snake…
17 Sep 2012, 20:33 pm
@fitz1ella-670:
What we lack !n the Bok set up at the moment !s exper!ence, leadersh!p and players that have v!s!on to choose the best opt!ons ava!lable.
FDP covers all those bases and k!ck chase !s only a small component of h!s game when he sees a gap he goes for !t.
17 Sep 2012, 20:37 pm
@cab-662: its no rumor Keohane has confirmed it which is exactly why JdV is playing with half a heart on automatic cruise control because this ARSEHOLE idiot has already told him he’s just a caretaker captain till his glory boy arsewipe FdP is coming to take over the bokkie reigns..
I hope to hell he BOMB’s and bombs BAD .. let him play MS and FdP till doomsday as his go to boys … Goosen must fck OFF as fast as his creative rugby intelligent legs can carry him.. and Hougaard and some other real rugby renegades too…
17 Sep 2012, 20:42 pm
@Dawn-650: he messed with alot of youngsters!
he just cant handle the heat!
17 Sep 2012, 20:44 pm
@Jeraldjay-674: what DID that FCKUP USELESS leadership produce since 2009??
Pray goddamn TELL
WTF DID FdP and MS and Smit and Matfield and ALL the goddamn leadership under the SUN produce in the past THREE YEARS..??
You wanna KNOW what FdP produced..
THIS
Played 14 LOST 11 against top 5 rank international opposition home and away
from 2009 – 2012 under FdP and Smit with Morne and Spies in the saddle Boks lost the following
NZ 5 from 6
Aus 6 from 7
That is 11 losses from 13 starts against traditional rivals..
ADD to this LOSSES vs France and Ireland under FdP and MS and Smit in 2009 under exact same DEFUNT leaderless garbage rugby strategy and ONE lucky packet win vs Wales in the WC pool game and you have the following
PLAYED 16
LOST 13
WON 3
WHAT kind of WINNING record is THAT..??
PLEASE goddamn educate me WHAT that arsehole IDIOT FdP has produced since 3N in 2009 when Brussow and the refs shrill whistle did ALL the damage.
17 Sep 2012, 20:48 pm
@victoriabok-673: apples guavas and pomegranates .. same difference all the fruits from the garden of Eden .. Adam went and ate and now he dunno if he’s coming early or late.
17 Sep 2012, 20:54 pm
@fitz1ella-672:
You’re going off at a tangent as usual. Since when did I ever say that the kick and chase is the way to go. Huh?
What’s this kak about me calling back FDP, Matfield and the rest of the gang. You’re seriously seeing things in the dark.
You saw how Goosen made a differnce when he came on. Guess what, so did I? And he made a difference.
When HM was appointed he obviously went for the safety first route which is slowly realising is not working. But dropping Potgieter at 7, selecting Flo at 6. Finally getting Vermeulen at 8. The guy’s head is coming around. The pack seems to sorting itself out.
The backline also needs attention. Don’t be a stupid fool now. We have all seen that. Of course Ruan at 9 isn’t working and Hougaard is wasted out on the wing. Goosen is the answer at 10 – HM is slowly realising that.
Instant gratification are what most supporters are hankering over. There have been too many Bok losses to contend. with. And now everyone expects immediate success. With a brand new team. Give the guy a break.
17 Sep 2012, 20:55 pm
@fitz1ella-677:
Yoh, !’m p!ss!ng !nto the w!nd here.
Between 2009 and 2011 FDP m?ssed alot of rugby because of !njur!es . He also went !nto RWC 2011 w!th that shoulder !njury.
You cannot blame our poor performances dur!ng that per!od ’cause of h!m.
17 Sep 2012, 20:57 pm
667 – holy **** Jerald – u wanna set him off on one or what?!
Nah fdp done, he was done 2011 done everything – hougaard is hungry – he’s a young joost uitgefknknip.
17 Sep 2012, 21:00 pm
So today is the 1st of Tishrei 5773!
Happy new year if you are Jewish!
Funny, you have to love kiwis – we have more in common with them than what we would like to believe.
I was doing some calcs the other day to determine when the ‘Big Yom Teruah’ will be – I did this by checking when Yeshua was crucified etc but obviously the Jewish year. So from doing my projections I concluded with question. Why a question? Because I cannot possibly know when this day will be.
But nevertheless, my conclusion was: will it be in this year? So I then set out to see what’s on the internet. And there I find a gentlemen from NZ agreeing with my projection. Quite nice level-headed discussions he recorded there.
He was the guy who made the assertion that New Zealand is the furthest away from Yerushalayim. But how would one measure that?
17 Sep 2012, 21:05 pm
@cab-681:
I know the Goose and Hougaard !s the future.
But we desperately need exper!ence. Just someone thats been the!r to gu!de/mentor these youngsters.
17 Sep 2012, 21:07 pm
@I am a stormer-679: He’s vacillating by working through a series of trial and error guesses to try come up with a workable solution..
Like I said he MAY eventually get it right but by GOD its taking him FOREVER to open his dumb fck brain and REALIZE what works and what don’t..!!
WHY he go with Potgieter, Coetsee, Spies, Daniel, JJ, Kirchner first and foremost.. he excludes Brussow.. he plays Hougaard at 9 with Steyn at 10
THEN he switches to a more balanced loose trio by REALIZING that he needs SOMEBODY who can play to the ball so he calls Louw from Bath and gets Vermeulen in at long last.. THANKFULLY Spies is fck’d so he don’t have to make the hard call..
THEN he don’t drop the root cause of his problem Steyn.. he KEEPS Steyn and EXACERBATES the goddamn problem by playing PIENAAR at 9
What KIND OF dumb moronic imbecile is THIS dunce !!??
So how many times we going to go GO ROUND AND ROUND the same mulberry bush because he’s convinced that his problem don’t rest with MS at 10 but he NEEDS FdP at 9 to captain and save his sinking ship?
Let him fetch FdP AND J. Fourie.. If he CANNOT SEE that his game plan is fckd UP and DEFUNCT he will continue to LOSE hand over fist.. and I for one am gonna pray that he keeps doing so till he WAKES the fck UP..!!!
17 Sep 2012, 21:08 pm
Many have been speculating about exactly what happened in the garden/orchard in Eden.
Let’s settle this once and for all: here’s what really happened:
Adam blamed Eve, Eve blamed the snake and the snake had no leg to stand on …
17 Sep 2012, 21:14 pm
@I am a stormer-679:
Meyer’s FIRST prize is still get FdP..
Meyer WANTS FdP.. and if he could have gotten Matfield he wanted him too.. he settled on JdV as a stop gap compromise because he couldn’t get his f’ng darlings he wanted..
Its NO WONDER JdV’s heart isn’t in it.. firstly he’s playing out his preferred position and secondly he’s probably been told that FdP is coming to take over before Eoyt…
Meyer makes one decent decision then Fcks it UP with a couple pathetic half arsed cowardly ones..
He gets lucky enough to have Goosen and Vermeulen and Louw and Alberts available but then he goes and plays PIENAAR at bloody scrum half and shoves Hougaard out on the wing and starts canvassing for FdP to come be his saving grace goddamn captain marvelous..
FcK him.. the DOOS dunno the beginning of WHERE he’s going or where he wanna be
He’s lucky that Hougaard buys into this garbage and if he fcks up Goosen by making him a kick chase f’ng artist I’ll personally go knock on his dumb fck door and read him the goddamn riot act.. the Moron deluxe.
Perhaps Mallet or somebody with some rugby brains comes and educates him PRONTO before he goes belly up
17 Sep 2012, 21:20 pm
Cheers fellas, take it eezy
17 Sep 2012, 21:21 pm
@fitz1ella-684:
Now you’re slowly coming around to my way of thinking. As I’ve repeatedly said, the kick and chase aimless kicking is NOT the way to go. I have NEVER said that. All you do is hand the ball back to the opposition. Everyone goes on about that. But the way Morne takes the ball and Goosen likes to receive it more flat is like chalk and cheese. Add Hougaard to the mix at SH on top of that with a proper 8 in Vermeulen – instead of Spies – to provide protection to Hougaard at the back of the scrum and slowly things will come right.
See, your thinking is not too far off from mine. But HM is slowly getting it right. A bit too slowly for all our liking.
17 Sep 2012, 21:27 pm
@fitz1ella-686: I’m always stoked when people like yourself go on a misguided campaign because of emotion, it makes it clear to all concerned that you don’t know rugby and never will.
Rather go play with the other children in the sandpit and leave the rugby to the big boys.
17 Sep 2012, 21:28 pm
@I am a stormer-688: Its not YOUR way of thinking what counts.. and neither is it mine..
Its the dumb doos COACHES way of thinking that COUNTS.. and the dumb doos coach is CONVINCED that kick and chase archaic death knell rugby with FdP in the saddle is the way to go…
So it don’t matter whether you or I agree or disagree on how the Boks should be playing its the COACH who is killing the Boks by playing dead end kick chase trash from here to forevermore…
Meyer is NOT an international coach’s backside at this stage of proceedings.. in spite of what all his bloody disciples wanna believe that he is .. so far he is WORSE than PdV .. by some distance…
If he can’t get his stuck in the mud head out of the rut of the brainless kick chase archaic dead end delusion he’s living under.. whether he gets FdP back or NOT.. he’s going absolutely NOWHERE
17 Sep 2012, 21:29 pm
@Brendope-689: you just a twat that thinks you know what cuts.. get FdP you dumb moron and then we see whats what…
17 Sep 2012, 21:29 pm
Here’s one for the scholars: did George W Bush invade Iraq because of weapons of mass destruction, oil , to boost certain American industries like construction or could it be that they are planning to erect a ziggurat in the plain in the land of Shinar?
Or all of the above?
17 Sep 2012, 21:33 pm
@I am a stormer-688: You saying kick chase rugby don’t work.. wtf does that help..
The COACH says it DOES work and he is hell bent on trying to PROVE that it works..
So why the fck you still defending him.. when the coach is convinced kick chase rugby with FdP as the general who LOST SA all of 12 games from 16 starts or something to that effect playing kick chase trash since 2009 is STILL the way rugby in this country should be played..
Just like this rope a dope idiot here@Brendope-689: who reckons this coach knows wtf he’s doing when its CLEAR that he don’t..
17 Sep 2012, 21:34 pm
@fitz1ella-675:
> hy JdV is playing with half a heart on automatic cruise control
Finally admitting a Stormer is playing badly?
> because this ARSEHOLE idiot has already told him he’s just a caretaker captain
Yes, if you read more than “The Tourette’s Weekly” you would have known that HM told him that from the word go
Do you think JdV would last till the next WC?
And actually PLAY in one without going home early on his usual sick note?
You should rather take on JdV for playing badly, his a grown man if he can’t deal with it he should have taken it in the first place
Nut up or shut up
He should rather tell us how he plans to carry over the Stormers’ midfield try scoring magic to the Boks, after all he’s the captain?
17 Sep 2012, 21:34 pm
@mpundulu-23: According to my calculations if the other teams crash in the Andes en route to Buenos Aires and eat each other we could stay take it.
17 Sep 2012, 21:35 pm
@fitz1ella-690:
Skop, I am going to reserve further judgement until I see what team HM puts on the field at Loftus.
Let’s just leave it at that.
17 Sep 2012, 21:35 pm
Re-broadcast of Sat. Ruan seems to have instructions to kick the ball back into rucks. Have never seen that move before.
Greyling came on @ 50 min. 30 mins of brain implosion.
17 Sep 2012, 21:36 pm
@victoriabok-673: LO very LOUD
17 Sep 2012, 21:36 pm
Savea has feminine hair
17 Sep 2012, 21:39 pm
Justn Marshall : “Pienaars kicking game just isn’t good enough”
17 Sep 2012, 21:39 pm
@fitz1ella-693: I’ve not offered you the benefit of my opinion on coaches or players. But it is clear to all who read and blog on here that you know as much about rugby as your mothers rotting syphilitic ****.
If you don’t understand the basics, we will just keep laughing at you
17 Sep 2012, 21:41 pm
@ryecatcher-698: Goodnight & Fuckadilly everyone.
17 Sep 2012, 21:41 pm
@fitz1ella-693:
I am just saying give the oke more time. It is taking longer than even I would have expected to make the right backline calls. He seems to have sorted out the forwards. But he is moving the right direction.
Now you’re behaving like an 18 year old, first day on the job and wanting a ferrari as your company car.
Give it time. It’ll happan.
17 Sep 2012, 21:44 pm
@Jeraldjay-683: More than enough experience.
Beast/Gurthro
Bismarck
Jannie
Brussow
F.Steyn
Habana
JPP
17 Sep 2012, 21:45 pm
@viewer-697: Ruan to 9 was the dumbest decision I ever seen a coach make .. they may all want to crucify Morne Steyn for LOSING the game because his radar was out.. But Ruan LOST the last 3 games playing the WRONG game under the WRONG strategy set by a coach who knows fckall about what winning rugby is actually about… when the real game winners are STUCK out in limbo FAR from where they supposed to be
This coach don’t know the beginning of what winning rugby even vaguely resembles… all he remembers is the stuff that Tod Louden taught him somewhere far away in the long lost past distance… now he wanna regurgitate that same distant dream he had back then and bring FdP all the way back from the dreary distant dead and kick the ball up in the sky for MORE of the dead ended same.
Heaven help the Bok.
17 Sep 2012, 21:46 pm
Yes Savea and others are so bored playing against the Boks that they spend considerable time working out what their next hairstyle will be.
Cory Jane I think similar and SBW.
Goes a little something like this: I’m so bored playing against these blokes, let me try this sideways fringe that the ghay guys like so much; they prolly think that these guys have style
17 Sep 2012, 21:48 pm
That’s me. Over to the nite shift.
17 Sep 2012, 21:48 pm
@Brendope-701: you keep laughing fuckwit
the basics are you do NOT win playing WITHOUT the ball as your dumb fck delusional hero once told you you do…
get it straight arsewipe.. the game is NOT what you dumbfck moron think it is.. and that is why AB’s win 85% of the time and Boks LOSE more often than they WIN.. 13 times from 16 starts to be PRECISE
Dumb delusional syphilitic TWAT faced arsehole moron deluxe.
17 Sep 2012, 21:53 pm
@Brendope-701:
Brenda.
Skop is right.
Add an opinion.
17 Sep 2012, 21:55 pm
@viewer-697:
Greyling kon niks reg doen nie, hy kon nie eers vir Ritchie hard genoeg gem-oer het nie
17 Sep 2012, 21:58 pm
Its pretty simple, a clear set of performance criteria should have been set at the outset
Would imagine it being as simple as a set of win %’s for each year
Surely 50% or lower should be dismissal – its 43% at the moment
Should there be no performance criteria or enforcement thereof then we must deduce that Meyer’s continued appointnment is for reasons other than just rugby
17 Sep 2012, 22:21 pm
@capetown-711:
We must deduce that your opinion is Brokeback biased, so first take off your Stormers G-string before you start commenting
And before you start throwing percentages around, compare 900 tests to 150 (and most of the 150 is shared between a few players only), that is the difference between the WC winning 2007 PdV inherited and the one HM must build from scratch
17 Sep 2012, 22:27 pm
@victoriabok-712: please that is one fat fuckup of an excuse…
the baby Boks WON the WC just the other day
There is NO dearth of rugby talent or ability in this country but there is a huge CHASM of dumb delusional coaching delinquency among the so called rugby boffins and backward dreaming coaches in this country..
Your messiah Herr Meyer is just a false prophet .. but you are not willing to accept him as such because you NEED to believe he is more than what he actually is…
With CORRECT strategy and CORRECT selection this Bok team would have not lost ONE game thus far this year.. simply as NZ haven’t lost ONE game.. so WHY do YOU need an excuse to LOSE and they DON’T ???
Your coach is NOT what you think he’s cut out to be.. and Now you NEED to give him WAY more latitude than he actually deserves.
17 Sep 2012, 22:35 pm
To the one eyed keo followers
1. Meyer brought in Francois Louw although Stegmann was available and it proved a masterstroke not many (except some Stormers supporters) anticipated. Not many on this site has acknowledged Meyer for it.
2. With our useless gameplan the Boks forced the All Blacks into giving away 5 kickable penalties to none in the first half. The All Blacks ran from their own half and it proved to be suicide. If the Boks ran from their own half the halftime scoreline would have been something like 20 3 to the All Blacks. The penalty count at one stage was 8 penalties for each team, but most of them was in the All Blacks half because they did not kick for territory well enough.
3. Meyer is clearly building a pack of forwards that probably had less test caps than McCaw, Woodcock, Mealamu and possibly Read. Yet, we monstered them up front.
4. A couple of weeks ago Meyer was acused of all sorts of things bringing in Goosen and Vermeulen. Yet, he is now crucified for not starting Goosen.
5. Meyer made a wrong call to bring on Greyling, but he is not Meyer’s first choice by far. The pecking order is probably Beast, Guthro, Coenie and then Greyling. Now who should he have picked. Another 20 year old not ready for test match rugby? To accuse Meyer of provincial biasedness in picking Greyling when 2 better props are not available is again so boring. Again. Why did he then pick Louw ahead of Stegmann if he is so biased?
6. Meyer again made the wrong call to not substitute Steyn earlier. If he picks him again I will also be highly critical of Meyer’s judgement and although I will not call for his head, Saru needs to talk to him to bring someone in that challenges him. Mallett with whom Meyer has a healthy relationship with is a perfect candidate to form part of the thinking scrum. The only problem with this is that Skop will give anyone he works with more credit that Meyer himself. Apparantly Jones won the World Cup and Louden the 2007 Super 14. Are you also giving Slaptjips the credit for the 2009 and 2010 Super 14s?
17 Sep 2012, 22:37 pm
@fitz1ella-713:
> compare 900 tests to 150 (and most of the 150 is shared between a few players only)
It is a valid comparison, lack of experience in key positions would bite you
Two uncapped locks and the fact that most test caps were held by the Du Plessis brothers, Beast, Morne, Spies and Zane
A lot of the others were guys who played a few minutes in a test here and there like Lambie for example he’s got 15 caps
How many times has he started and played a full one?
17 Sep 2012, 22:38 pm
@fitz1ella-713: Jeesus, are you still at it? Does it ever end with you? Do you think by telling everyone personally on this site how clever you are, that it will make it so? Talk about delusion of fcken grandeur. Give it a rest, old man. After god knows how many years of trying, you haven’t convinced one solitary soul here of your rugby pedigree. To most here you’re just a batty old braggart. And that’s putting it nicely.
17 Sep 2012, 22:39 pm
@capetown-711: When is the cut off date for this? If Meyer lost the first game it is 0%. Would he then not have made it. Do you think Carel du Plessis should have been sacked in 1997 after he started to show results vs Aus. Remember he lost a tour against the Lions and he only won one game against Aus, losing the other 3 in that year’s tournament. Meyer at least won against England and is unbeaten at home. Will this be the first coach to get sacked not losing one game at home? In world rugby?
17 Sep 2012, 22:39 pm
Ons bok-setup is goed… Heineke Meyer weet nou wat dit is om springbok afrigter te wees… Morne het ons die game gekos dit is nie n geheim nie maar en noem dit weer en weer en weer… Ruan Pienaar is kubieke k@k agter die oond… Hy is stadig en hy veroorsaak teveel omkeer besit vir oposisie agv te lank agter die oond draai… Jean de Villiers word gemors op buite senter maar eindlik hou n meer energieke vinniger Juan de Jong, Paul Jordaan, Lionel Mapoe of Jj Engelbrecht uit die span… Eerbare ding vir heineke nou is om vir morne en jean jultemal te laat rus. Ek is jammer om dit te noem maar krichner moet maar as plaasvervanger op kom… Potensiele span kan wees
1-coenie 2-adriaan 3-jannie 4-eben 5-juandre 6-francois 7-willem 8-duanne 9-francois 10-johan 11-basson 12-frans 13-juan 14-bryan 15-pat 16-chilly 17-pat 18-flip 19-marcell 20-ruan 21-zane 22-jj
17 Sep 2012, 22:45 pm
@xtremebull-718: Francois Hougaard he dit nie gemaak by die Bulle op skrummie nie. Ek sal hom weer volgende jaar daar speel, net omdat hy so uitstaande talent is, maar nie nou vir die Bokke nie. Pienaar dink ek kry heeltemal te veel kritiek en hy wag ook maar net vir die baldraers om ondersteuning te kry anders gaan Hooper en McCaw ons verniel op die grond. JJ Engelbrecht moet ook maar net eers ‘n paar goeie games vir die Bulle speel voordat ek hom sal wil terug sien by die Bokke.
17 Sep 2012, 22:51 pm
@katman-716:
He can’t stop repeating how Barney stayed too long and was the reason why the team lost at the WC
Yet JdV, obviously over his prime and too old for the next WC must be made Captain for Life?
Maybe he wants to be sure he finally plays in one, being a serial sick note he’s never managed to once?
17 Sep 2012, 22:53 pm
@Horings-714: stegmann?
it would’ve been a travesty if deon was brought into the team. he has played zilch this year without breaking something!
stegmann in a bok jersey = useless.
17 Sep 2012, 22:53 pm
Haha, check this out. Why did he not pick more blacks? He picked Lambie ahead of Kirchner. He also picked de Villiers and Steyn ahead of de Jong. How many blacks played against Aus. JP Pietersen, Habana and Guthro? Now we have Kirchner, Habana and Beast, while Guthro and Pietersen is not available.
Cape Town – Former Springbok coach Peter de Villiers is upset with what he feels is too white a Springbok team currently playing in the Rugby Championship.
The Boks have failed to win their last three games in the competition, with a 21-11 loss to New Zealand in Dunedin on Saturday leaving them in second-last position on the log.
But De Villiers feels it’s not only the team’s poor results on the field turning the fans against Heyneke Meyer’s charges, but also the racial composition of the side.
Speaking to Ballz Radio on Monday, De Villiers lashed out at Meyer’s apparent lack of interest in selecting players of colour.
“It’s just the little things that bother me. We need to know in what country we do live. And at this moment we are turning a lot of black people against ourselves by making the team white and nobody will talk about these things but I just have to. And that is what… actually we’re breaking up our country again,” said De Villiers.
The former Bok mentor also questioned the fact that there’s no existent quota system in place anymore. He singled out a few players of colour which he feels should have been given more chances this season.
“We do have a lot of great (black) players who can make a difference. You have Gio Aplon – here in Cape Town – who can make a hell of a difference. You’ve got Juan de Jongh, and exciting player who can make a difference. We never played (Siya) Kolisi – who’s now injured, he was never given a chance.
“There are a lot of players like Chiliboy Ralepelle. He was the one guy who can make that 10% difference that you need from a replacement to come onto the field.
“We’re turning all the black support against the Springboks. Wherever I go I hear people talking negative about the Springboks,” said De Villiers.
Saturday’s Bok team against the All Blacks did feature three players of colour (Zane Kirchner, Bryan Habana and Tendai Mtwarira) in the starting line-up, while De Jongh was among the substitutes.
De Villiers started his tenure as Bok coach in 2008 under a cloud of controversy, with SARU admitting the decision wasn’t made purely on rugby reasons, but rather political. Back then Meyer was the preferred candidate to succeed the World Cup winning coach Jake White.
De Villiers led the Boks to a series victory over the British and Irish Lions in 2009, as well as the Tri-Nations title in that same year. However, things started unravelling the next two years and his time with the national team ended when the Boks crashed out of the World Cup at the quarter-final stage to Australia last year.
De Villiers is currently the director of rugby at the University of the Western Cape.
17 Sep 2012, 22:54 pm
@victoriabok-720: Ja, that’s his story now. But it’s best not to engage him on these matters, because he changes his mind 180 degrees every 3 weeks or so. Save yourself the aggravation and take the phony phucken phlip-phlopper with a large pinch of salt.
17 Sep 2012, 22:55 pm
@Transformation-721:
Like Jean between sick notes?
Maybe he and Andre Pretorius can compare sick notes?
17 Sep 2012, 22:56 pm
@Transformation-721: I am not saying he should have been picked. I actually predicted Meyer will bring in Louw. But, if Heyneke is this Bulls biased coach then surely he would have picked Stegmann and not bring in a WP man from nowhere.
17 Sep 2012, 22:56 pm
Meyer does some things right (through hit and miss trial and error deductions – why did it take 6 games of mostly MISSES to REALIZE that a Frans Louw or a Heinrich Brussow was absolutely CRITICAL?)
Skop said from the beginning – play a BALANCED loose trio NOT Coetsee, Potgieter and Spies.. – but Meyer AND his disciples knew better.. so they tried it for 2 or 3 games and MISSED.. then they EVENTUALLY cottoned onto the FACT that Frans Louw or Heinrich Brussow was critical.. but Meyer probably burned his bridges with Brussow so he had no option but drop Potgieter out his 22 and Coetsee to bench and play Louw, Alberts and Vermeulen
Viola – miracle of miracles SIX games later he gets it RIGHT.. what a f’ng GENIUS the slow coach is….
Then Skop says DO NOT play Pienaar at 9.. but ALL the Meyer disciples and all the merry men including the coach and his advisers reckon Hougaard is BETTER on the wing.. so they play Pienaar at 9 and Hougaard on the wing .. and what transpires.. Pienaar KICKS the Boks to death.. Kills the game off at source after the forwards have MIRACULOUSLY come right because we have a STRONG base with 3 STRONG loose forwards and a proper No.4 for ONCE .. the backs go into DEEP FREEZE mode with Pienaar and Steyn killing the Boks off before they even scarcely see the ball…
ALL the possession and ALL the positive territory and pressure applied by the forwards get NULLIFIED by Pienaar and Steyn.. SAME sh’t we have seen since FdP and Steyn KILLED the Boks off at source SINCE pa fell off the bus in 2009…
Skop ALSO said play Vd Merwe at 4 and Etzebeth at 5.. he said it from the FIRST England game.. go read his posts..
He said play Hougaard at 9 and play Goosen or even Pienaar at 10 ahead of Morne Steyn…
He also said play Elstadt at 4 or Alberts at 4 or Vd Merwe at 4 and play Etzebeth at 5..
He also said DON’T play Kirchner at 15 and never play Spies at 8
and he said if you can’t play Bismark at 2 play Deon Fourie at 2..
NOW Skop says
Play Le Roux at 15 for Kirchner
and play JC Janse Van Rensburg off bench at LH prop
and introduce some dynamism through the back line with a game breaking center off bench, Mapoe or De Jongh or Taute or Jordaan on bench
But the most important facet to change is Hougaard to 9 and a change at 10, Goosen or Jantjies to 10.. drop M. Steyn and play Hougaard at 9 or face another 2 losses vs AB’s and Wallabies at home.
17 Sep 2012, 22:57 pm
@Horings-722:
Ek dink Chilliboy is beseer?
Die Bulle kon hom nou baie goed gebruik het
17 Sep 2012, 23:01 pm
If I was in Meyer’s shoes, I’d make a handful of changes. I’d switch Jean back to 12 and put Juan at 13. I’d slot Goosen in at 10 and I’d move Frans to 15 for the remainder of the competition.
Up front I’d put a fit Coenie on the bench. I’d drop Strauss for Chilli and I’d pair Etsebeth with Kruger.
And that’s it as far as changes are concerned. I’d stick with Pienaar at 9 – I think he won’t have another game like Saturday, particularly not with Goosen outside him. And I’d keep Flo, Alberts and Vermeulen at 6, 7, and 8, with Coetzee on the bench.
Oh, and I’d draft Jantjes in to cover flyhalf from the bench.
17 Sep 2012, 23:02 pm
@victoriabok-724: Hey, I saw Pretorius play for the Leopards the other day. He absolutely destroyed the Valke. Great in every facet of the game, and looks like he’s enjoying himself.
17 Sep 2012, 23:04 pm
BTW. PDivvy’s record from 2009 Year end tour to 2011 Tri nations won 10 lost 11. Meyer won 3 drew 2 lost 2. That is a more than 50% record, while PdV failed the exam. This with a Bok team that broke records for being the most capped team ever, compared to Meyer’s team that had less caps among the forwards than many individuals from the opposition he played against.
17 Sep 2012, 23:04 pm
@viewer-697: ruan is under instruction not o deviate from the “gameplan” hence he is gifting israel dagg easy ball to catch & attack us.
it is the dumbest thing ever!
17 Sep 2012, 23:05 pm
@xtremebull-718: dis EEN Bul wat sy storie eintlik ken.. hy’t oogies wyd ope..die andere HM gat-lekkers moet eintlik na die bulletjie mooi luister. hy weet wat gaat vir wat en wat sal werk en wat sal nie.
as for these others
YES clear as goddamn daylight
If Smit had got the fck out the way and let Bismark start and Hougaard had taken the field ahead of the chicken **** hopeless prima donna FdP and Kirchner and Spies were NOT entrenched by PdV.. Boks would have CREAMED the 2011 WC..not a doubt whatsoever.. and Burger to play a flankers role not a fly half bash crash operative ala maverick Rassie.
17 Sep 2012, 23:10 pm
@fitz1ella-732: So all the players are to be blamed for picking themselves. Sorry, for what exactly did PdV earn a salary? for not picking black players and then acusing a coach the next year for exactly doing the same?
The only reason PdV talked politics in an interview is because he cannot talk rugby, except when it is played on the moon.
17 Sep 2012, 23:10 pm
@fitz1ella-726:
> But the most important facet to change is Hougaard to 9 and a change at 10, Goosen or Jantjies to 10.. drop M. Steyn and play Hougaard at 9 or face another 2 losses vs AB’s and Wallabies at home.
Hougie’s scrumhalf play is not even up to S15 level, trust me I cringed at all his mistakes while watching the Bulls this year
To try to bring him up to speed at test level is suicidal, he had three tests against the Poms and two against the Pumas where he was below average or plain sucked
The best plan would be to bring in Goosen, he’s ready
Man when he showed up in the last few minutes against the Wallabies he just oozed self confidence, and the same this week
Team him up with Ruan and slowly bring Hougie in on no 9 in the second half, that way you don’t play with two youngsters at the same time
Put Jantjies on the bench and give him at least fifteen minutes
17 Sep 2012, 23:12 pm
@victoriabok-734: Ek hoop net hulle se nie vir Steyn hy moet Bulle toe kom nie. Ons kort spelers, maar asseblief nie vir hom nie.
17 Sep 2012, 23:21 pm
@Horings-735:
Never thought I hear that from a Bulls supporter. What’s happening in Bulls country? I thought it was only doom and gloom at the Boks.
17 Sep 2012, 23:25 pm
Hougaard is 1000 times more proactive and the required ingredient at scrum half to Pienaar
a million times better
WHO was the scrum half that ran England ragged at Ellis Park that first 20 minutes.. WHO ??
Who was the ONLY Bok that pitched up in Mendoza.. WHO..??
Which Bok back line player OOZES attitude and will and courage.. WHO??
It was NEVER Hougaard who was the problem in Meyers team.. it was a HOST of other problems like a POORLY selected back row and a pathetically archaic kicking game plan with Morne Steyn nullifying the back line dynamic
But Hougaard is and was NOT the problem.. and if Meyer wants to PROGRESS then he must NOT play Pienaar at 9 and he MUST change Steyn at 10.. these 2 positions are critical.
He has EVENTUALLY got his loose trio right and he’s getting closer to realizing that Vd Merwe is better than Etzebeth at 4 and Etzebeth should share 5 with Bekker or Kruger
and if he gets the front row subs correct like drafting in Janse Van Rensburg at LH then his pack is sorted..
ALL he gotta do from there is get shot of Steyn and Kirchner and get Hougaard back to 9 and play Pienaar off bench.
I wouldn’t even mind seeing Hougaard at 9 with Pienaar at 10 and Goosen off bench.. that is FAR better than Hougaard / M. Steyn or Pienaar / M. Steyn as half back partnership.
17 Sep 2012, 23:29 pm
@fitz1ella-737:
You think Pienaar is kak at 9. And now you suggest playing him at 10.
Now that is even more kaka.
I’d rather have Goosen at 10, thank you very much.
17 Sep 2012, 23:33 pm
@I am a stormer-738: I warned people about this. Before midnight he’ll be back on Grant and Duvenhage.
17 Sep 2012, 23:33 pm
@I am a stormer-738: Yes I rather have Goosen at 10.. BUT I STILL rather have Pienaar at 10 than M. Steyn at 10 ANY day of ANY week..
and if the coach is concerned about throwing Goosen to the wolves too early then MY strategy would be have Hougaard at 9 and Pienaar start at 10 and phase Goosen in .. but M. Steyn at 10 is a one track monotonous desolation straight back into obsolete oblivion.
17 Sep 2012, 23:33 pm
@Horings-735:
Hy is k@k, hy was swak laasjaar en nou sonder FdP is hy pateties
17 Sep 2012, 23:35 pm
@victoriabok-741: En hy sal nottefok nou vir Fouche uit die Bulle span lig nie.
17 Sep 2012, 23:36 pm
@I am a stormer-736:
Pine Pienaar couldn’t coach an Under Twelve team
The BBRU spent all their money on young talented players, and with the left over change they bought a coach and two Chappies at Bloemfontein Pep Stores
17 Sep 2012, 23:37 pm
Grant should have been Bok fly half between 2008 – 2011 and PdV’s record would NOT have looked as PATHETIC as it did.
Instead FdP and M. Steyn returned the grand rewards between 2009 and 2011 of played 16 – won 3 against top 5 competition… FANTASTIC FdP and M. Steyn .. Meyers DARLINGS in sweet majestic symmetry…
FdP should have fck’d OFF to Japan a lot earlier and taken Smit and Spies with him.
17 Sep 2012, 23:37 pm
@fitz1ella-740:
Over how many seasons do you suggest he phase Goosen in, skop? The oke is ready to go right now. and i’ve already got my ticket for Loftus. Otherwise it goes onto gumtree.
17 Sep 2012, 23:38 pm
@katman-742:
Hy sal nie eers vir Handre lig nie en hy’s nie eers in die span nie
17 Sep 2012, 23:38 pm
@Horings-725: why this hankering to prove heyneke did this and he is not a that?
as i said above, if he had picked stegmann it would’ve an embarrassment hence the point if it deserves to be called that is a moot one!
feck me, we had to stomach his pottie brainfart, steggies would’ve just been to much
17 Sep 2012, 23:40 pm
@victoriabok-746: Ook maar netsowel. Anders moes hy volgende jaar teen die Griffons an die Bulldogs speel.
17 Sep 2012, 23:42 pm
@katman-748:
Ja, en as hulle aanhou met Pine kan ons nog laer gaan, is daar ‘n divisie onder die B divisie?
Soos die Bulle nou speel sal hulle nei eers in die Carlton Liga kan meeding nie
17 Sep 2012, 23:44 pm
@victoriabok-749: Hey, jou Currie Cup span, my Super Rugby span… volgende jaar kyk ons lekker golf op die TV.
17 Sep 2012, 23:46 pm
@katman-750:
Julle wen nie CC in die finaal teen Griekwas, maar speel nie S15 nie
Ons speel S15 en B divisie CC
Miskien moes ons julel spelers oorgeneem het, hulle kon S15 hier gespeel het en CC by julle ?
17 Sep 2012, 23:48 pm
why was greyling even in the squad? the guy is a penalty machine but he doesn’t have to prove himself like heinrich was told to before the june test series…
17 Sep 2012, 23:48 pm
@I am a stormer-745:
He needs 2 fly halves and 2 scrum halves in the team 22
Pienaar is either the versatile sub or the starting 10 with Goosen off bench
Hougaard MUST start and STAY at 9 throughout.. Pienaar as back up in case of injury.
which leaves Goosen to 10 and Lambie / Jantjies as back up 10 OR if he is too conservative to start a youngster vs Aussie and AB’s then Pienaar should start at 10 and Goosen off bench.
FAR better than Pienaar / M. Steyn 9/10 combo.. Hougaard / Pienaar will still do damage.. with Goosen to wreak havoc getting his chance off bench … Pienaar / Steyn is DEAD end to nowhere.
17 Sep 2012, 23:49 pm
@katman-739:
Peter Grant will be talking japanese talking japanese I really think so. And then we’ll be down the creek without a canoe.
17 Sep 2012, 23:50 pm
@victoriabok-751: Ons spelers sal nie onder Pine speel nie.
En ja, dit sal vreemd wees as ons twee jaar in ‘n ry die CC wen en by Super Rugby moet uitsit. Veral as die Kings met rekord punte pak slae kry.
17 Sep 2012, 23:52 pm
@Transformation-752: Also, he’s a loosehead. I thought the ideal was to have an extra tighthead on the bench. Or at least someone like Coenie or CJ who can cover both. As far as I know Cilliers was fit for the weekend. Why the hell was he not on the bench?
17 Sep 2012, 23:53 pm
Anyway, I’m off.
Go Lions.
17 Sep 2012, 23:54 pm
@katman-755:
Nee, S15 onder julle ou afrigter Frans Ludeke
17 Sep 2012, 23:54 pm
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/7693146/Roof-turns-Dunedin-into-kickers-nightmare
Roof turns Dunedin into kickers’ nightmare
MARK GEENTY
There could be a scientific explanation for the failure of some international pivots to “get their kicks” in Dunedin’s stadium. Mark Geenty reports.
Dunedin’s house of horrors will continue to haunt visiting goalkickers as long as it remains under a roof, a Wellington scientist says.
Brian Wilkins, who has written books on how atmospheric conditions assist a cricket ball to swing, says it’s no coincidence that New Zealand’s only covered rugby stadium causes nightmares for some of the best kickers.
He says the lack of air turbulence under the Forsyth Barr Stadium roof means any ball hit slightly off centre will deviate further than it would outside.
Springbok Morne Steyn was the latest sharpshooter to discover that in Saturday’s test defeat to the All Blacks when he kicked just one from five attempts, some of them skewing wildly.
Wilkins says it relates to the lateral Magnus/Robins force, which makes any spun ball curve when the air flowing around it leaves the surface earlier on one side than on the other.
“In rugby, most kickers don’t strike the ball dead centre and their boot doesn’t come through straight in line with the target; they come around the ball slightly,” Wilkins said.
“They’re almost guaranteed to put a slight sideways spin on the ball. It’s the same sort of thing as table tennis, when you put side spin on the ball it swerves.
“It’s the smooth non-turbulent air [under the roof] which accentuates all these phenomena. It’s only got to be a very slight rotation for it to take off and develop into a big curve.”
After reading yesterday’s story in the Dominion Post on the kicking woes, Wilkins wrote in with his low turbulence theory and offered some free advice for visiting kickers in Dunedin: straighten your approach and if you don’t hit the ball low and dead centre, and follow through straight, you could be in trouble.
Springboks captain Jean de Villiers suggested the switch from the Gilbert ball which is used in South Africa, to the adidas ball used in New Zealand, was a factor.
England’s Jonny Wilkinson also blamed the ball during his struggles during last year’s World Cup, when he kicked seven from 14 in Dunedin.
Wilkins said the atmospheric conditions would play a much bigger part and left far less margin for error, regardless of which ball was used. It was during the World Cup that he took a keen interest in why the kickers struggled in Dunedin and he soon settled on the low turbulence theory.
“Only those who kick straight through to send the ball tumbling straight, under and over, around a horizontal axis, will succeed . . . in low turbulence air.”
The statistics back up the theory. At the World Cup, kickers made 32 of 59 attempts (54 per cent) and in this year’s Super Rugby it was 64 from 97 (65 per cent).
17 Sep 2012, 23:58 pm
@fitz1ella-753:
So you still rate Pienaar at the Boks? The thing is HM won’t throw him onto the scrap heap too soon. As he has Goosen who MUST start at 10 at Loftus. Morne will more than likely be on the bench. He won’t have Jantjes on the bench because that would be far too radical.
Hougaard must start at 9 as you’ve been saying – see, I don’t always disagree. And would like to see Jano Vermaak given a chance from the bench with 20 mins to go. Can still move Hougie to wing then.
18 Sep 2012, 00:03 am
@I am a stormer-760: Nope I wouldn’t have M. Steyn anywhere near the 22 and I would play Hougaard ONLY at 9 .. never on wing.. Pienaar is super versatile sub or starting 10 in my team that is all.
Pienaar can cover 9, 10 and 15 as a full utility player like Lambie which gives them the opportunity to play 5/2 bench or else have 2 fliers / bolters like Le Roux or Mapoe or JdJ or Serfonetin or Rhule or A. Coetsee on bench
I’m not a great Vermaak fan I reckon he’s just mediocrity I prefer Pretorius or Van Zyl of Cheetahs.
18 Sep 2012, 00:04 am
anyway am out now too
so long
18 Sep 2012, 00:10 am
@fitz1ella-762:
@katman-757:
Cheers guys.
Hey skop, skittle sticks starts again tom. Get ready.
18 Sep 2012, 00:18 am
@Horings-722:
Fokof Snor jou dom doos, wie stel belang in jou opinie
Al wat ek wil **** van jou, jou AA puppet, hoe hulle jou beheer, met toutjies van bo?
Of ‘n hand op in jou hol?
Laasgenoemde sal jou fyn stemmetjie verklaar
18 Sep 2012, 00:27 am
@nama1-171: very good post – honesty at its purest.
Once some SA people stop believing the hype in their so called abilities and strength etc, and focus on respect – then perhaps the path forward will be more accurately assessed and acted on.
When you read many of these posts – very few people speak about a team game, you all target individuals as if each one can bring the magic bullet, but the lack of development of complimentary players is most evident when you watch the Boks – are they introducing themselves to each other on the way out of the tunnel? Your forwards for the first time showed a collective effort – no super stars, just 6 or 7 men doing the basics right. Yes your coach has not developed back play that can leverage from the forwards, so where are 4/5 players who comprise the best of the backs of SA that work in time with these forwards, not as an isolated bunch.
Singular thinking will continue to yield fractured results – we (NZ) were horribly guilty of this in 1998-2003
18 Sep 2012, 00:27 am
Hey, I’ve been reading all y’alls comments about this and bloody that but the main culprits in all of this is SARU.! Let me explain… You see Pdiv and Meyer were right to have been considered for the post, but they f’ed up the timing. With Meyers familiarity to the players good ol Jake led to WC, Meyer really should have stepped in for the purpose of continuity if nothing else. Pdiv’s role in development and coaching at youth level meant that it would have been a more insightful and less political move to utilise his developmental skills now while at the same time blurring the color lines.
18 Sep 2012, 03:32 am
Poep is generated in two basic ways. One way is by swallowed air which once it has worked itself through the bowel has absorbed some noxious odours from its environment. These are emitted as loud, voluminous flatuli but often disappoint on the stink value scale.
The other way is through bacterial degradation of intestinal contents resulting in methane gas produced through an exothermic reaction (heat producing reaction). These escape through carefully controlled poephols (for fear of doing a solid) as warm but relatively low volume flattus. These are noxiously potent yet silent and thus surprising. Causing those in the immediate vicinity to either flee the rich stench or lose their lunch. Sometimes people climb into lifts or walk in malls and are blessed by a gift selflessly left by someone else.
On rare occassions you can experience a combo. The combo is the king of baff (koning van skuit) but just like a surfer respects a big wave, the producer of the combo must shut the valve (pouting poephol) before the ‘follow through’ or ‘shart’. When I hear the word ‘stormer’ I think of the combo. The king of the warm beef stew flatuli with a potentially soft and uncomfortable ending. It starts like a royal and ends ****. Herewith is born the definition of the word ‘stormer’
18 Sep 2012, 03:56 am
Pete Helium says the Bok team is “too white”….
18 Sep 2012, 04:44 am
1 bok only in the planet rugby 15 of the week, 6 AB’s (4 forwards 2 backs).
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_8086280,00.html
18 Sep 2012, 07:28 am
#759, one of snot’s more interesting posts and obviously just copied. Please keep it up. #767; this is for poep69 right?
To me Meyer is a bit like Zuma, promise much, deliver fokkol except jobs for pals. The Dunedin factor shows this. Meyer’s kicking coach should surely have known this. Meyer should either have known M Steyn could cope or was slumping (not as though it’s MS’s first failure) and tried to get him out of it. If not, replace him, keeping a slot if he returns to form. Put Lambie or Goosen or Elton at flyhalf, have a backup kicker at fullback (or even scrumhalf).
Let’s try play some organised, well structured rugby. Asseblief.
But at least show SA that you are thinking HM, not a braindead bonehead. Oh, and, whatever you do, don’t let the poison dwarf anywhere near you.
18 Sep 2012, 08:08 am
@Dusky-767: classic
18 Sep 2012, 09:03 am
@Transformation-188:
The point I made last week. Imagine if the Boks won?
I doubt if it will make any difference in team composition though. Watch when it is announced.
18 Sep 2012, 12:47 pm
@gunther-501: @Transformation-505:
Indeed.
Thanks for the correction.
18 Sep 2012, 15:48 pm
PETITION AGAINST MORNE
18 Sep 2012, 20:01 pm
Imagine for a moment that Morne Steyn was still the 90% kicker that he has been virtually his entire career.
Imagine Bryan Habana had not put down a pass with the tryline at his mercy in the fifth minute of Saturday evening’s game.
Imagine Deon Greyling had taken up tiddlywinks instead of rugby.
By my estimation, the Boks left 25+ points on the park on Saturday evening. If 50% of these opportunities had been taken, this weekend past’s clash would have had an entirely different complexion.
Heyneke Meyer has been much maligned on electing to play what is perceived as an anachronistic gameplan. However, can a gameplan that yielded so many opportunities against the number one team in the world trulybe considered out-dated? Or is there a still space for a forward-orientated, kick-and-chase game in the “modern” era?
Place yourself in his shoes for a moment. You realise that the opponents you will play most often are the All Blacks and Wallabies, both teams that play a wide game (the Wallabies at every opportunity, the All Blacks after a few phases and usually off setpiece ball). What’s your plan to engineer a win? Do you follow a gameplan that your opponents devised (i.e. try beat your opponents at their own game)? Or do you develop your own gameplan?
Considering that the wide game is part of the DNA of Union in New Zealand and Australia, I would think it would be obvious that Wallaby and All Black teams are very familiar with defending against opponents putting width on the ball at pace. Understandably, he decided to pursue a different tack.
Against the Wallabies:
-The Wallabies pack (rightly or wrongly) are perceived to be substandard compared to other top tier teams.
-The Wallabies backline in recent year is comprised of relatively small though quick players.
A Bok plan against the Wallabies should be orientated in creating as many attacking setpieces in Wallabies territory as possible and running big ball carriers through the gold backline. A kick and chase game plan would get the Boks into the right areas of the park to look to force a mistake from the Wallabies. However, I would argue that the gameplan should be modified to kicking the ball out and dead against Beale and co. and have Bekker and co. look to disrupt lineouts or Francois Steyn dominate a tackle (forcing a knock-on or penalty).
Against the All Blacks:
- The All Blacks seem vulnerable to rolling mauls, as evidenced on Saturday and against Los Pumas. This argues for kicking close to the touchline, limiting the fielding player’s angle of clearance -which is possible with a quick chase- and setting up attacking lineouts.
- The Boks defence was generally able to contain the All Blacks back three. Consider how much ball was kicked onto the likes of Dagg, Savea and Jane. Then consider that only one try (Dagg’s opening try) was scored from the glut of possession handed to the most potent back three in world rugby. It is also worth noting that around eight shots at goal were manufactured by kicking onto the All Black back three. Had Morne Steyn kicked like an international quality flyhalf, Steve Hansen would have cause for some soul searching come Sunday morning.
I feel that Heyneke Meyer’s thinking in adopting an “outdated” gameplan actually makes sense. As evidenced against the All Blacks on Saturday, it does yield the opportunities to reap dividends on the scoreboard. His failure in my opinion is in his selection:
1. Flyhalf. The gameplan adopted by Heyneke Meyer is orientated on manufacturing shots on goal. For it to succeed, these opportunities need to be converted into points. After seven games to prove his class, I think he can drop Morne with a clear conscience. Selecting a goal-kicker who can’t kick goals makes no sense. If memory serves, Johan Goosen can kick ‘em from 55 metres out, get him off the pine and into the starting line-up. Alternatively, what does Elton Jantjies have to do to gain selection for the Boks? I understand he is an accomplished goal-kicker, and I was very impressed with the way he managed the Lions backline during the Super season. Either of those two would be preferable to a non-performing Morne.
2. Locks and fetchers. The gameplan he is trying to implement centres around creating opportunities from kicks. This means having locks that can steal opposition ball at the lineout (ala Victor Matfield) or a fetcher who can win “holding-on” penalties if the full back gets sacked in possession. Currently, the Boks are playing Bekker who hasn’t delivered a steal for the Boks as yet and Meyer has elected to leave Brussow at home. Francois Louw, in my opinion, made enough of a contribution to warrant a relook at the “no-fetcher” policy. And surely Victor Matfield can be convinced to help out with the technical lineout work?
3. Full back. Zane Kirchener delivers a solid performance at fullback. He’s safe under the high ball and gets fair distance on his clearances. However, he is prone to placing nothing up-and-unders that don’t achieve the goals of the gameplan. I think Kirchener either needs to be coached into adding a line-kick to his repertoire or a new fullback needs to be found. I enjoy Lambie’s running instincts, and I think he could grow into a great fullback for the Republic…but he’s going to need a lot more than 5-10 minutes in a lost game to grow his ability.
I liked Kirchener’s option for a drop-goal in the match. Popping over the odd three points from a failed clearance makes opposing players less adventurous in their approach to clearing, going for a sure out rather than distance. Meyer could think about moving Francois Steyn to 15, Jean de Villiers to 12 and JP Pietersen to 13. This setup would probably compliment the gameplan better than the current setup.
From a southern hemisphere point of view, there can be few arguments that the gameplan Heyneke Meyer is looking to adopt is not particularly attractive. However, the lack of aesthetic appeal should not blinker our appreciation of its effectiveness and feasibility as a counter to the dominance of the All Black style of playing the game.
20 Sep 2012, 00:42 am
One would have to argue the fact that the ref pulled, what the Blacks get away with often, at the ruck possibly more so than what most refs would do and therefore not as many penalties would have been give, ie points for the Springboks.
That to me played a decisive factor, that the ruck was reffed better than usual when the Blacks play.
PS to everybody
Did you all know buying your bok jersey/shirt from abroad it is/nearly half price to that in SA. Just shows how we are been ripped off in our own country, beastards !!!
20 Sep 2012, 10:04 am
Not sure if anyone’s already pointed it out but what HM in this article seems quite promising and fans should have hope?
http://www.sarugby.co.za/article.aspx?category=sarugby/springboks&id=1583201
I also agree with #775. Execution screwed the game up for the Boks.
26 Sep 2012, 21:45 pm
I am a BOK thru and thru, that will never change. But is the title of this article not a bit of an oxymoron? I really think that our rugby is somewhat stale and we are behind Oz, not to mention NZ. Be that as it may, I think we have a good chance of winning the net two games.
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