Make us believe in a bold Bok era, Heyneke
17 Sep 2012
MARK KEOHANE, in his Business Day newspaper column, writes denial is the devil that has to be avoided for the Boks to be winners and the best team in the world.
Once again South Africans will take comfort that the All Blacks are not quite as good and the Boks are not quite as bad. Once again we can reflect on a heroic defeat. Once again we would be deluded.
If the aim is to consistently be the best rugby team in the world then brave 10-point defeats against the old foe can’t be viewed as victories. If the aim is to be the best then the Boks have to set standards that include not playing well and beating the All Blacks by 10 points; not exceeding expectation and still losing by 10 points.
Come on.
There has to be a change of mindset, from within the current management. And there has to be a demand from the rugby public that quality of performance is never secondary.
There has to be some honesty about where it went wrong. Only then can it be corrected.
Meyer, as coach and head strategist, promised more than we saw in Argentina, Australia and New Zealand, and the public rightly expected more of the Springboks.
I don’t get why there is an absolute fear of failure within the management. If ever there was a time where the public would have been accommodating it was in the year post a World Cup when most teams tend to be in transition and when coaches can embrace variation in selection, strategy and approach.
I am not talking about experimentation but variation.
All of the successful Bok teams of the professional era have played good rugby without having to be like the All Blacks and Wallabies and without having to give up the fundamentals associated with the South African game.
Meyer’s Boks are capable of so much more, but it starts with the coach and his support staff.
Passion should be a given and not the exception that gets the Boks close to beating the All Blacks in New Zealand or inspires the one-off win against the Kiwis in South Africa.
The Boks have players capable of producing a game that embraces moving the ball through hands and winning with skill and not relying exclusively on forward dominance and physical superiority.
Every good Bok team has employed an effective kicking game, and there is no crime in Meyer believing in the merits of playing for field position and minimising risk. But it has to be balanced with a trust that those selected are good enough to want to maintain possession and effectively use this possession.
Selections have to offer hope of victory and not limit the margin of the defeat.
I am not dispirited. If Meyer had done everything right and the Boks were three from seven, then we could talk about a catastrophe.
He hasn’t and acknowledging this would signal strength in character.
There is hope for the Boks and there will always be because the quality of player is good enough to beat any team once, but the measure of great Bok teams is that they beat all opponents more than once, home and away.
Meyer’s conservatism in selection cost him a famous win in Dunedin. I championed Meyer’s national appointment, but he’s struggled more than I ever anticipated in getting his selections right. He surely can’t get them wrong for the two home remaining Rugby Championship matches against Australia and New Zealand.
There can no longer be a case made for Morne Steyn’s retention. There can also no longer be the nonsense of Johan Goosen not being good enough, experienced enough or old enough to start. There can’t be an argument to ignore the claims of Elton Jantjies as his understudy and if Meyer does not rate Pat Lambie then he owes it to the player to send him back to Durban and allow him to actually play some rugby.
I never considered Meyer would struggle to break his association with the Bulls, but I underestimated the bond that exists. His loyalty to Morne Steyn was misguided and no newcomer picked at flyhalf would have been afforded seven Test matches in which to get it right. No newcomer would have been excused a goal-kicking success rate in the mid-50s.
Defeat will force change but there would have been greater comfort had innovation determined selection.
The Boks always produce inspired performances at home in the latter stages of what was the Tri Nations and now is the Rugby Championship. What we are seeing in 2012 is no different to what we saw a decade ago.
I refuse to believe Meyer will not get it right. He is a student of the game, a man who instills confidence when talking rugby and a man who appreciates the nuances of the game.
Which makes the last month that much harder to fathom. How the hell did he get it so wrong, in selection and in inspiration?
I can’t recall a coach being more unanimously embraced as a national appointment and Meyer needs to know the public wants him to succeed.
He needs to lose the fear of failure and trust his ability to win as much as the public did when lauding his appointment. If he does that, not only will there be hope for the Boks, there will also be conviction in the belief they can be the best.
778 Comments
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17 Sep 2012, 19:59 pm
What is it actually with this backward degenerate thinking… are they THAT far stuck in hereditary deficiency to actually REALIZE what works and what don’t in a simple little non enlightened escapade like selecting players correctly to carry out a feasible strategy in a thick as three brick game like rugby?
Then they come along AFTER the fact and try sell you the bullshit story that they knew what was cutting all along.. but their actions and words decry their feeble fallacies they tried spinning through their clenched teeth in outright dislocated denial.
17 Sep 2012, 20:01 pm
Jisterday. If your people’s week starts like this on a Monday, I can’t imagine how the rest of the week will pan out.
I’ve said it before. A tweak here, a tweak there and we’ll be A ok.
No need to slash your wrists just yet. We’re closer than you think.
17 Sep 2012, 20:02 pm
Hmmmmmmmm, 19 Morne Steyn fans have voted now…
17 Sep 2012, 20:02 pm
@poppa69-648: That’s the problem with 10 man rugby. The rest are simply there to make up the numbers…nothing more.
If we continue with the 10 man rumble, it actually makes no difference who plays from 11 to 15…..Smurfs, garden gnomes, Barney and friends, they would all perform the same as what we currently have.
17 Sep 2012, 20:03 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-653: Rather say 10 Kiwis and 9 Aussies have voted now….
17 Sep 2012, 20:04 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-654:
If Morne doesn’t start at Loftus then HM can expect words from me. With Hougie as his SH.
17 Sep 2012, 20:05 pm
I ain’t no Bok fan
I would rather back Argentina
17 Sep 2012, 20:06 pm
@I am a stormer-656:
I meant if Morne does start – vokkenhel. My week is going south like the rest of yours.
17 Sep 2012, 20:09 pm
@I am a stormer-652: the die hard believer.. you and shooter .. and some the other half of this half of that not quite sure which side of the great divide they actually wanna hang their half synchronized hat on
you wanna believe so bad.. just like most the lost poor half of nothing halfwits that still trying to recreate the famous SA rugby tradition religion..
Its a fake.. it don’t exist.. its doomed to extinction.. when will these poor boertjies realize that as much as they NEED to identify with some kind of superior breeding it went out with the last vestiges of Nat King Cry me a river singing Tula Mama Tula Baba on Broadway
17 Sep 2012, 20:10 pm
@I am a stormer-658:
Was wa!t!ng for you to f!x that post.
17 Sep 2012, 20:11 pm
Sheez if only Fuckadilly was in charge.
We could expect fifteen different players every Saturday depending on what the elders a the the Fishoek Spur Salad Valley Delection Panel saw in in their Baksamic and Olive oil forecasting bowl.
Teem sheets would be delivered via Ouijia Boatd 10 minutes before kickoff.
17 Sep 2012, 20:11 pm
who says he’s going to see the light, maybe he sees a different light, dont speak too soon, wait for the aussie test at loftus, next thing u see a virtually unchanged team. maybe he says too hell with everyone else’s light and we be stuck with 4 years of hardegat kick kick kick trying to build a bloubul-like empire, in fact if some of the rumours are to believed, they actually approached FdP to come back as captain for EOY tours, then ou doosie will pull a triple bypass backflip on the spot.
17 Sep 2012, 20:12 pm
@Dawn-657: so you wanna chuck your toys with the cash crusaders … its a lonely place wanting to belong but not having anyone or anything to belong to…
that how adam got seduced by eve not knowing if he were being offered a guava or a pomegranate
17 Sep 2012, 20:13 pm
@Dawn-657: pap-beks, brokebacks and capecrusaders can cheer for who they like – just not the Boks.
Capiche.
17 Sep 2012, 20:16 pm
@Dawn-657:
For the foreseeable future?
17 Sep 2012, 20:19 pm
@gunther-661: That’s “The Defenders of Fish Hoek” you’re talking about, right?
Makes sense, he’s probably one of them.
17 Sep 2012, 20:20 pm
@cab-662:
If FDP played on Saturday we would have won.
He would be the perfect mentor for the Goose.
Our scrumhalf depth !s kak at the moment.
…. Okay br!ng !t on….
17 Sep 2012, 20:20 pm
If Fuckadilly were in charge there would be none of this vacillating between do we play Morne or Lambie or Jantjies or Pienaar or Hougaard or Kirchner or Spies or Daniel or Vermeulen
There would be a clear cut strategy of taking the game to the opposition and blistering them with outright straight as an arrow decimation .. and kicking to the skies as a weapon of milking mistakes as an option would be the last resort.. not the first.
17 Sep 2012, 20:21 pm
@fitz1ella-659:
I’ve said plenty give the oke a bit of breathing space. Sure, he’s making mistakes with some selections. But the fuckups like dropped passes, poor passes,missed tackles, pisspoor goal kicking cannot be blamed on a coach sitting high up in the stands.
It is now time for the players to pull finger. The coach can only do so much.
17 Sep 2012, 20:22 pm
@Jeraldjay-667: WRONG !!
FdP Played the LAST how many games with Morne under Smit and Matfield in this EXACT same DEFICIENT kick chase game plan?
HOW MANY GAMES did we WIN ??
HOW MANY.??. please go and COUNT THEM
17 Sep 2012, 20:24 pm
I think the Boks have improved amongst the forwards and Heyneke is probably largely responsible for this. My problem with Meyer is that he is not a backline coach. He never was, even under Nick Mallett he coached only the forwards.
The Boks current backline coach, Ricardo Loubser, is IMHO not an international coach and has never coached at this level. Ricardo can stay where he is, but it will help a lot if any coach like Carlos Spencer and/or David Campese and/or Eddie Jones could assist Ricardo.
17 Sep 2012, 20:32 pm
@I am a stormer-669: BULLSHIT
Coach is setting the paradigms and the standards.. Coach is setting the status quo of HOW the team is approaching each and every game, the selections AND the strategy…
You wanna bet that EVERY single game we played this year was a GIMME for and EASY win.. if he simply firstly selected CORRECTLY and secondly played to the PLAYERS STRENGTHS.. NOT this bullshit LAST century kick and pray goddamn GARBAGE..!!!
SA rugby is STUCK in a game style from PRIOR to WC 2007 with OLD obsolete rugby strategies under laws which do not even apply anymore.. and STILL they wanna try hammer a square BRICK into a round hole .. and KEEP on FAILING..!!!
Count how many games Boks have won in the past 3 years with this self SAME archaic DEFICIENT dead end strategy…
Go fetcdh Fdp and Matfield and Smit and J. Fourie and however you THINK is going to change this deficient spiral of downward trajectory.. it will NOT change a THING..
The entire game plan has to swing from a negative deficient fear ridden conservative COWARDLY one into a forward thinking pro active BRAVE one..
Simple..
With the players currently available Boks should CLEAN up Wallabies and AB’s easily.. but this coach is STUCK like a old hat record in a groove he simply CANNOT think his way out of
Unless somebody helps him and he’s big enough to realize this game plan he’s chasing is a FAT non conforming MISTAKE that will not evolve anywhere he might then eventually realize his poor strategy won’t work and climb out the hole he dug for himself from the beginning.
17 Sep 2012, 20:33 pm
@fitz1ella-663:
> that how adam got seduced by eve not knowing if he were being offered a guava or a pomegranate
She offered him an apple
If she offered him her guava he would have provided the snake…
17 Sep 2012, 20:33 pm
@fitz1ella-670:
What we lack !n the Bok set up at the moment !s exper!ence, leadersh!p and players that have v!s!on to choose the best opt!ons ava!lable.
FDP covers all those bases and k!ck chase !s only a small component of h!s game when he sees a gap he goes for !t.
17 Sep 2012, 20:37 pm
@cab-662: its no rumor Keohane has confirmed it which is exactly why JdV is playing with half a heart on automatic cruise control because this ARSEHOLE idiot has already told him he’s just a caretaker captain till his glory boy arsewipe FdP is coming to take over the bokkie reigns..
I hope to hell he BOMB’s and bombs BAD .. let him play MS and FdP till doomsday as his go to boys … Goosen must fck OFF as fast as his creative rugby intelligent legs can carry him.. and Hougaard and some other real rugby renegades too…
17 Sep 2012, 20:42 pm
@Dawn-650: he messed with alot of youngsters!
he just cant handle the heat!
17 Sep 2012, 20:44 pm
@Jeraldjay-674: what DID that FCKUP USELESS leadership produce since 2009??
Pray goddamn TELL
WTF DID FdP and MS and Smit and Matfield and ALL the goddamn leadership under the SUN produce in the past THREE YEARS..??
You wanna KNOW what FdP produced..
THIS
Played 14 LOST 11 against top 5 rank international opposition home and away
from 2009 – 2012 under FdP and Smit with Morne and Spies in the saddle Boks lost the following
NZ 5 from 6
Aus 6 from 7
That is 11 losses from 13 starts against traditional rivals..
ADD to this LOSSES vs France and Ireland under FdP and MS and Smit in 2009 under exact same DEFUNT leaderless garbage rugby strategy and ONE lucky packet win vs Wales in the WC pool game and you have the following
PLAYED 16
LOST 13
WON 3
WHAT kind of WINNING record is THAT..??
PLEASE goddamn educate me WHAT that arsehole IDIOT FdP has produced since 3N in 2009 when Brussow and the refs shrill whistle did ALL the damage.
17 Sep 2012, 20:48 pm
@victoriabok-673: apples guavas and pomegranates .. same difference all the fruits from the garden of Eden .. Adam went and ate and now he dunno if he’s coming early or late.
17 Sep 2012, 20:54 pm
@fitz1ella-672:
You’re going off at a tangent as usual. Since when did I ever say that the kick and chase is the way to go. Huh?
What’s this kak about me calling back FDP, Matfield and the rest of the gang. You’re seriously seeing things in the dark.
You saw how Goosen made a differnce when he came on. Guess what, so did I? And he made a difference.
When HM was appointed he obviously went for the safety first route which is slowly realising is not working. But dropping Potgieter at 7, selecting Flo at 6. Finally getting Vermeulen at 8. The guy’s head is coming around. The pack seems to sorting itself out.
The backline also needs attention. Don’t be a stupid fool now. We have all seen that. Of course Ruan at 9 isn’t working and Hougaard is wasted out on the wing. Goosen is the answer at 10 – HM is slowly realising that.
Instant gratification are what most supporters are hankering over. There have been too many Bok losses to contend. with. And now everyone expects immediate success. With a brand new team. Give the guy a break.
17 Sep 2012, 20:55 pm
@fitz1ella-677:
Yoh, !’m p!ss!ng !nto the w!nd here.
Between 2009 and 2011 FDP m?ssed alot of rugby because of !njur!es . He also went !nto RWC 2011 w!th that shoulder !njury.
You cannot blame our poor performances dur!ng that per!od ’cause of h!m.
17 Sep 2012, 20:57 pm
667 – holy **** Jerald – u wanna set him off on one or what?!
Nah fdp done, he was done 2011 done everything – hougaard is hungry – he’s a young joost uitgefknknip.
17 Sep 2012, 21:00 pm
So today is the 1st of Tishrei 5773!
Happy new year if you are Jewish!
Funny, you have to love kiwis – we have more in common with them than what we would like to believe.
I was doing some calcs the other day to determine when the ‘Big Yom Teruah’ will be – I did this by checking when Yeshua was crucified etc but obviously the Jewish year. So from doing my projections I concluded with question. Why a question? Because I cannot possibly know when this day will be.
But nevertheless, my conclusion was: will it be in this year? So I then set out to see what’s on the internet. And there I find a gentlemen from NZ agreeing with my projection. Quite nice level-headed discussions he recorded there.
He was the guy who made the assertion that New Zealand is the furthest away from Yerushalayim. But how would one measure that?
17 Sep 2012, 21:05 pm
@cab-681:
I know the Goose and Hougaard !s the future.
But we desperately need exper!ence. Just someone thats been the!r to gu!de/mentor these youngsters.
17 Sep 2012, 21:07 pm
@I am a stormer-679: He’s vacillating by working through a series of trial and error guesses to try come up with a workable solution..
Like I said he MAY eventually get it right but by GOD its taking him FOREVER to open his dumb fck brain and REALIZE what works and what don’t..!!
WHY he go with Potgieter, Coetsee, Spies, Daniel, JJ, Kirchner first and foremost.. he excludes Brussow.. he plays Hougaard at 9 with Steyn at 10
THEN he switches to a more balanced loose trio by REALIZING that he needs SOMEBODY who can play to the ball so he calls Louw from Bath and gets Vermeulen in at long last.. THANKFULLY Spies is fck’d so he don’t have to make the hard call..
THEN he don’t drop the root cause of his problem Steyn.. he KEEPS Steyn and EXACERBATES the goddamn problem by playing PIENAAR at 9
What KIND OF dumb moronic imbecile is THIS dunce !!??
So how many times we going to go GO ROUND AND ROUND the same mulberry bush because he’s convinced that his problem don’t rest with MS at 10 but he NEEDS FdP at 9 to captain and save his sinking ship?
Let him fetch FdP AND J. Fourie.. If he CANNOT SEE that his game plan is fckd UP and DEFUNCT he will continue to LOSE hand over fist.. and I for one am gonna pray that he keeps doing so till he WAKES the fck UP..!!!
17 Sep 2012, 21:08 pm
Many have been speculating about exactly what happened in the garden/orchard in Eden.
Let’s settle this once and for all: here’s what really happened:
Adam blamed Eve, Eve blamed the snake and the snake had no leg to stand on …
17 Sep 2012, 21:14 pm
@I am a stormer-679:
Meyer’s FIRST prize is still get FdP..
Meyer WANTS FdP.. and if he could have gotten Matfield he wanted him too.. he settled on JdV as a stop gap compromise because he couldn’t get his f’ng darlings he wanted..
Its NO WONDER JdV’s heart isn’t in it.. firstly he’s playing out his preferred position and secondly he’s probably been told that FdP is coming to take over before Eoyt…
Meyer makes one decent decision then Fcks it UP with a couple pathetic half arsed cowardly ones..
He gets lucky enough to have Goosen and Vermeulen and Louw and Alberts available but then he goes and plays PIENAAR at bloody scrum half and shoves Hougaard out on the wing and starts canvassing for FdP to come be his saving grace goddamn captain marvelous..
FcK him.. the DOOS dunno the beginning of WHERE he’s going or where he wanna be
He’s lucky that Hougaard buys into this garbage and if he fcks up Goosen by making him a kick chase f’ng artist I’ll personally go knock on his dumb fck door and read him the goddamn riot act.. the Moron deluxe.
Perhaps Mallet or somebody with some rugby brains comes and educates him PRONTO before he goes belly up
17 Sep 2012, 21:20 pm
Cheers fellas, take it eezy
17 Sep 2012, 21:21 pm
@fitz1ella-684:
Now you’re slowly coming around to my way of thinking. As I’ve repeatedly said, the kick and chase aimless kicking is NOT the way to go. I have NEVER said that. All you do is hand the ball back to the opposition. Everyone goes on about that. But the way Morne takes the ball and Goosen likes to receive it more flat is like chalk and cheese. Add Hougaard to the mix at SH on top of that with a proper 8 in Vermeulen – instead of Spies – to provide protection to Hougaard at the back of the scrum and slowly things will come right.
See, your thinking is not too far off from mine. But HM is slowly getting it right. A bit too slowly for all our liking.
17 Sep 2012, 21:27 pm
@fitz1ella-686: I’m always stoked when people like yourself go on a misguided campaign because of emotion, it makes it clear to all concerned that you don’t know rugby and never will.
Rather go play with the other children in the sandpit and leave the rugby to the big boys.
17 Sep 2012, 21:28 pm
@I am a stormer-688: Its not YOUR way of thinking what counts.. and neither is it mine..
Its the dumb doos COACHES way of thinking that COUNTS.. and the dumb doos coach is CONVINCED that kick and chase archaic death knell rugby with FdP in the saddle is the way to go…
So it don’t matter whether you or I agree or disagree on how the Boks should be playing its the COACH who is killing the Boks by playing dead end kick chase trash from here to forevermore…
Meyer is NOT an international coach’s backside at this stage of proceedings.. in spite of what all his bloody disciples wanna believe that he is .. so far he is WORSE than PdV .. by some distance…
If he can’t get his stuck in the mud head out of the rut of the brainless kick chase archaic dead end delusion he’s living under.. whether he gets FdP back or NOT.. he’s going absolutely NOWHERE
17 Sep 2012, 21:29 pm
@Brendope-689: you just a twat that thinks you know what cuts.. get FdP you dumb moron and then we see whats what…
17 Sep 2012, 21:29 pm
Here’s one for the scholars: did George W Bush invade Iraq because of weapons of mass destruction, oil , to boost certain American industries like construction or could it be that they are planning to erect a ziggurat in the plain in the land of Shinar?
Or all of the above?
17 Sep 2012, 21:33 pm
@I am a stormer-688: You saying kick chase rugby don’t work.. wtf does that help..
The COACH says it DOES work and he is hell bent on trying to PROVE that it works..
So why the fck you still defending him.. when the coach is convinced kick chase rugby with FdP as the general who LOST SA all of 12 games from 16 starts or something to that effect playing kick chase trash since 2009 is STILL the way rugby in this country should be played..
Just like this rope a dope idiot here@Brendope-689: who reckons this coach knows wtf he’s doing when its CLEAR that he don’t..
17 Sep 2012, 21:34 pm
@fitz1ella-675:
> hy JdV is playing with half a heart on automatic cruise control
Finally admitting a Stormer is playing badly?
> because this ARSEHOLE idiot has already told him he’s just a caretaker captain
Yes, if you read more than “The Tourette’s Weekly” you would have known that HM told him that from the word go
Do you think JdV would last till the next WC?
And actually PLAY in one without going home early on his usual sick note?
You should rather take on JdV for playing badly, his a grown man if he can’t deal with it he should have taken it in the first place
Nut up or shut up
He should rather tell us how he plans to carry over the Stormers’ midfield try scoring magic to the Boks, after all he’s the captain?
17 Sep 2012, 21:34 pm
@mpundulu-23: According to my calculations if the other teams crash in the Andes en route to Buenos Aires and eat each other we could stay take it.
17 Sep 2012, 21:35 pm
@fitz1ella-690:
Skop, I am going to reserve further judgement until I see what team HM puts on the field at Loftus.
Let’s just leave it at that.
17 Sep 2012, 21:35 pm
Re-broadcast of Sat. Ruan seems to have instructions to kick the ball back into rucks. Have never seen that move before.
Greyling came on @ 50 min. 30 mins of brain implosion.
17 Sep 2012, 21:36 pm
@victoriabok-673: LO very LOUD
17 Sep 2012, 21:36 pm
Savea has feminine hair
17 Sep 2012, 21:39 pm
Justn Marshall : “Pienaars kicking game just isn’t good enough”
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