Meyer must invest in Louw
18 Sep 2012
JON CARDINELLI writes the past two Tests have shown why South Africa needs a loose forward all-rounder like Francois Louw in the starting mix.
What do Louw, Richie McCaw and David Pocock all have in common? The answer is: Not one thing, but many.
They may differ in terms of the level of competency across the various facets of forward play, but the common denominator is that all three men are not out-and-out specialists. They’re not limited to a ball-stealing or ball-slowing role at the breakdown.
Forget the tag of fetcher, it’s a label that’s far too simplified. A modern-day openside must possess the necessary size and skill to be a good lineout option, ball-carrier, and momentum-stalling defender. Above and beyond that, he should have the ability to manipulate the flow of the game through his exploits at the breakdown.
Louw meets Heyneke Meyer’s loose forward criteria in that he is a ‘momentum gatherer as well as a momentum-stopper’. Meyer spoke of these criteria during the England series, but where the Bok coach got it wrong was in his back-row selections for those three Tests and much of the Rugby Championship.
Between Marcell Coetzee, Willem Alberts, Jacques Potgieter and Pierre Spies, there was not one player capable of playing that fetcher’s role, and thus there was no balance in the Boks’ approach. The absence of such a specialised skill was later exposed in games against Argentina and Australia.
Having a player like Louw in the starting line-up gives the Boks more options. He has the ability to play to the ball, and also meets Meyer’s criteria of what’s required of a Test loose forward. This was clear in last week’s Test in Dunedin, where Louw carried and defended powerfully, but also added that X-factor element at the breakdown.
Louw has long been considered an excellent fetcher, his performance in the 2010 Super 14 leading to his first Test cap. As the laws have changed and the responsibilities of an openside have changed, Louw has been forced to improve his game in other aspects of forward play. Louw can offer more than an out-and-out breakdown specialist like Heinrich Brüssow as a ball-carrier, physical defender, and lineout option.
In short, he’s the kind of player you need if you hope to enjoy sustained success against the All Blacks and Wallabies.
It took a string of loose-forward injuries for Louw to receive this opportunity, as Meyer has been reluctant to field players who are competing in overseas competitions. However, it has become increasingly evident over the past two years that there is no South African openside based locally or abroad that is in the same hybrid category.
The All Blacks have McCaw and the Wallabies have Pocock. Coaches build game plans around these players. It is something for Meyer to consider as he reassesses his playing strategy ahead of the home leg of the Rugby Championship, and the end-of-year tour.
It was unfair to expect great Test performances from Louw in Perth and Dunedin considering the last time he was involved was at the 2011 World Cup. And yet, the 27-year-old delivered when he started against the All Blacks. With more time to settle, with Meyer’s backing and assurance that he is more than just a stop-gap measure, Louw could become an important and game-shaping member of the Bok side.
I’m not suggesting that Meyer should completely dispense with promising youngsters like Coetzee. The 21-year-old flanker has impressed as an individual this season but that Bok back row has lacked balance whenever he has started.
There may come a time when Coetzee is ready to play a hybrid role and when he has fully developed the skill-set to do so, but at this point Louw is the complete package and must be backed.
Follow JC on Twitter
Follow SA Rugby magazine on Twitter
331 Comments
18 Sep 2012, 05:05 am
Disagree on Pocock. His all around skills not anywhere near those of McCaw, especially as a ball carrier.
18 Sep 2012, 05:37 am
Coetzee should be developed as an 8. He has all the heart, mongrel and skill to excel in this position in the future. He is also exceptionally strong for a 20yr old and will win most gain line battles especially in a few years time.
18 Sep 2012, 05:37 am
Meyer can’t do without Willem Alberts (& Frans & Bismarck). It is a paradox to say that Spies’ injury has actually solved a problem. Willem, Duane & Louw/Marcell can carry this team for 4+ years.
After seeing the game again, NZ are beatable. Not the same team without Thorn & Kaino
18 Sep 2012, 05:46 am
I’m way impressed young with Marcell. Talented, head screwed on straight, humble, strong, hard working
18 Sep 2012, 05:54 am
Duane is by far and away the best # 8 in South Africa.
18 Sep 2012, 06:20 am
Brussow is a match-winner. He should be in the side ahead of Louw.
Has won SR games for the Cheetahs pretty much single-handedly and his injury is a HUGE part of why we lost to Australia in the QF’s last year. Louw didn’t have nearly the same impact.
Longer we ignore Heinrich, the worse off we’ll be.
18 Sep 2012, 06:21 am
Agree with this article except for this sentence:
“Louw can offer more than an out-and-out breakdown specialist like Heinrich Brüssow as a ball-carrier, physical defender, and lineout option.”
Brussow
Louw
Kolisi
Coetzee
Burger
Alberts
Vermeulen
Kankowski
18 Sep 2012, 06:21 am
For a more balanced backrow, start with;
6. Flo
7. Marcell
8. Vermeulen
Utilise “Willem The Tank” in the last 25mins against tired legs.
18 Sep 2012, 06:38 am
Heineken you can thank your plank picks for the pathetic 43% win ratio you have.
Spies and Potgieter should never play for the Boks again. Give me Brussow and Burger ahead of these failures anytime.
And if you ever select that thug Greyling and his fat buddy Kruger you will be fired.
18 Sep 2012, 06:39 am
@Pot Blou Gevaar-8:
Marcell not a physical enough ‘in your face’ type flanker to be playing blindside IMO. Not at this stage anyway.
Ideally:
6 Heinrich Brussow
7 Schalk Burger
8 Duane Vermeulen
With Willem Alberts on the bench, and Marcell Coetzee thereabouts.
Siya Kolisi, Francois Louw & Arno Botha also 3 very capable players. Definitely have a lot of good depth in the loose-forwards.
And unfortunately CJ Stander has packed his bags for Ireland.
18 Sep 2012, 06:46 am
@hendrikp-10:
Agreed.
In terms of ball carrying ability, line-out options -do you go with Brussouw ahead of Louw. Quite scary that we’re talking about Heinrich almost as a non-entity. Brought about due to the new interpretations.
Certainly a lot waiting in the wings.. – Arno Botha maybe Duane’s understudy.
18 Sep 2012, 06:54 am
@hendrikp-10:
Agreed.
Also reckon
Brussow
Burger
Vermeulen
is the most balanced and effective loose trio moving forward
with any one of
Alberts
Coetzee
Kolisi
on the bench, depending on opposition, injuries and/or strategy.
I also think Kanko deserves to be invested in further at test level.
On form he is a fantastic option at 8.
I also anticipate Alberts being used more as a utility forward option ala Danie Rossouw.
The Sharks were extremely effective using Alberts at 4 and having a loose trio of Daniel, Coetzee and Kanko.
18 Sep 2012, 06:55 am
@hendrikp-10:
You’re a Cheetahs man, correct?
Any word on whether Juan Smith plans to return to rugby?
18 Sep 2012, 06:57 am
Louw’s good.
But Brussouw’s still the better player.
18 Sep 2012, 06:59 am
Div pointing out the elephant in the room?
Cape Town – Former Springbok coach Peter de Villiers is upset with what he feels is too white a Springbok team currently playing in the Rugby Championship.
The Boks have failed to win their last three games in the competition, with a 21-11 loss to New Zealand in Dunedin on Saturday leaving them in second-last position on the log.
But De Villiers feels it’s not only the team’s poor results on the field turning the fans against Heyneke Meyer’s charges, but also the racial composition of the side.
Speaking to Ballz Radio on Monday, De Villiers lashed out at the Bok management’s apparent lack of interest in selecting players of colour.
“It’s just the little things that bother me. We need to know in what country we do live. And at this moment we are turning a lot of black people against ourselves by making the team white and nobody will talk about these things but I just have to. And that is what… actually we’re breaking up our country again,” said De Villiers.
The former Bok mentor also questioned the fact that there’s no existent quota system in place anymore. He singled out a few players of colour which he feels should have been given more chances this season.
“We do have a lot of great (black) players who can make a difference. You have Gio Aplon – here in Cape Town – who can make a hell of a difference. You’ve got Juan de Jongh, an exciting player who can make a difference. We never played (Siya) Kolisi – who’s now injured, he was never given a chance.
“There are a lot of players like Chiliboy Ralepelle. He was the one guy who can make that 10% difference that you need from a replacement to come onto the field.
“We’re turning all the black support against the Springboks. Wherever I go I hear people talking negative about the Springboks,” said De Villiers.
Saturday’s Bok team against the All Blacks did feature three players of colour (Zane Kirchner, Bryan Habana and Tendai Mtwarira) in the starting line-up, while De Jongh was among the substitutes.
De Villiers started his tenure as Bok coach in 2008 under a cloud of controversy, with SARU admitting the decision wasn’t made purely on rugby reasons, but rather political. Back then Meyer was the preferred candidate to succeed the World Cup winning coach Jake White.
18 Sep 2012, 06:59 am
@puff-13:
Nope Province. Though I have a soft spot for the Cheetahs.
Let’s be honest. Smith played his last test almost 2 years ago now. Even if he were to come back next year, he wouldn’t be the same player.
And I doubt he’ll return. At the moment he is a bad investment for any team and is unlikely to leave the Free State with his farming (?) commitments.
18 Sep 2012, 07:01 am
@puff-12:
No doubt Kanko is a talented player, but things have just never quite lined up for him. I’m not sure he’s got the grunt to play test rugby consistently.
It’s almost a case of ‘he had his chance’ for me.
18 Sep 2012, 07:05 am
louw needs to command his place in the team.
not rely on a coach ‘believing’ in him.
18 Sep 2012, 07:09 am
@hendrikp-16:
Same here.
Province supporter, but Cheetahs are my second team.
If Smith returns I wonder whether the Cheetahs will look to utilise him at number four lock.
They have plenty loosie options but little depth at lock.
And Smith is sure to have lost a bit of speed because of his achilles injury.
Maybe 50 min a game at 4 is what he will be looking at?
18 Sep 2012, 07:10 am
Brussow plays to the ball marginally better than FLO but as an all round loose forward FLO ticks more of the boxes and I’d have him in the team.
The role of the out and out “deck” player has diminished over the past couple of years and whilst their influence is still there, they are no longer the absolute match winners or “make or break” factors that they once were.
So still important to have one in the team, but one who does it all well, a-la Ritchie, or in this case, FLO.
18 Sep 2012, 07:14 am
Pick Brussouw… and the rest will be history
18 Sep 2012, 07:14 am
@stormersboy-20:
I don’t understand all this talk about Brussow being a one-trick pony.
He is and exceptional, world-class ball stealer.
But his talents don’t stop there.
He’s a strong defender, runs hard and has really good hands.
The man can turn a game on his own.
He would be one of the first names I put down on the team sheet.
18 Sep 2012, 07:15 am
@stormersboy-20:
Can’t agree. The laws haven’t changed drastically in what they are or aren’t allowed to do. If you get there early & stay on your feet you’re fine. Brussow does it brilliantly.
The guy makes big plays at important periods of a game.
Last year in Durban we lost to Australia, for one reason only. Brussow was taken off after 50 mins.
18 Sep 2012, 07:16 am
Bismark
Brussow
Burger
Du Preez
Goosen
Frans Steyn
Jacques Fourie
JP Pieterson
These would be the first names to go on my Springbok team sheet.
If fit, I would always play them.
18 Sep 2012, 07:18 am
Brilliant player F Louw……should have been kept in CT and made Stormers captain…..
IMO though, Brussow is truly unique……
I am just so pleased the debate now seems to be which of these 2 wonderful Pitbulls to start…..that , in itself , is heartening for me….
18 Sep 2012, 07:18 am
@hendrikp-23:
Spot on. These guys saying the laws have ‘changed too much’ are simply jumping on the Meyer ‘size’ bandwagon.
Brussow should be one of the Bok’s core players (like Matfield and co were). You choose players to suit his game, that’s how good he is.
Kanko, Alberts and Brussow would be my dream trio (with Coetzee covering for all 3).
18 Sep 2012, 07:19 am
@puff-22:
Same.
I agree he’s an average ball-carrier. He tends to focus on being a support runner and clearing out rather then taking it to the line… but that’s understandable considering he’s not incredibly strong through the middle.
He’s definitely not a poor ball carrier though. And he’s excellent defender & links well with others with ball in hand.
Meyer justifies his exclusion by saying he gives away too many penalties (which isn’t true by the way), yet he includes Flip van der Merwe & Dean Greyling!!
For me, I feel like bashing my head against the wall every time I see people ignoring the guy.
18 Sep 2012, 07:19 am
Re the PDivvy comments:
Mtawarira
Steenkamp
Ralepelle
Kolisi
Habana
Basson
De Jongh
Aplon
All deserving of places in a 30-man Bok squad.
I feel Mvovo needs to work on some aspects of his game and I’d rather pick Willie Le Roux over him at this point as he offers more utility value.
18 Sep 2012, 07:22 am
@hendrikp-17:
Mmm, Kanko has NEVER had a real shot at test level. Britney was always blocking him.
Kanko of 2012 is a bigger, faster version of Keegan Daniels. And that’s a good thing.
18 Sep 2012, 07:24 am
Off topic, I’m very excited to see how Coetzee (Lions 15) goes next year (assuming he leaves the Lions).
Classy player.
18 Sep 2012, 07:26 am
@puff-28:
Aplon should be in the Bok starting lineup (or at the very least on the bench getting 30 min).
18 Sep 2012, 07:27 am
@puff-24:
True I’d put Etzebeth in there as well. Gurthro Steenkamp as well if he’s fit and performing nearly as well as he was the past few seasons.
Biggest worries for me is:
- Depth at tighthead. We need Cilliers & Malherbe to step up, and hopefully have Coenie Oosthuizen playing tighthead for the Cheetahs with Caylib Oosthuizen on the loosehead or else converting Rossouw de Klerk if he is the other starting prop.
- Finding a lock to play alongside Etzebeth. Both Bekker & Kruger have been average at best. Flip van der Merwe also had a rare decent game. Will be nice to see whether Pieter Steph du Toit can be as good in the air as he is around the pitch.
- Sorting out whether we can rely on Fourie du Preez to come back and control our game from the 9 jersey.
- Finding a capable back-3 that can make things happen. Habana & Pietersen are doing a good job, but we need an attacking fullback drastically.
18 Sep 2012, 07:32 am
daniel, kankowski, mvovo are the type of players never really good enough even when they’re at the top of their game. so the path to bok glory for them is a simple case of needing to move the world, put no foot wrong and be seen to want to die for jersey.
if they cannot do this in each and every of the games they get if fate so decrees, then they fade into obscurity and nowhereness.
18 Sep 2012, 07:34 am
@hendrikp-32:
I honestly believe Bekker is the man to play 5, he just needs to be managed properly (he gets hurt before every test season, and then looks average when he limps on).
Aplon should be our 15 for now. Coetzee and Taute are waiting in the wings.
18 Sep 2012, 07:35 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-18:
Like Meyer believes in Morne?
18 Sep 2012, 07:35 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-33:
Tend to agree on Daniels and Mvovo. But Kanko is class, and the best 8 in SA.
18 Sep 2012, 07:43 am
@wpstormerbok-35:
its different.
morne in the start to his bok career won a trin nations title and b/i lions series. because of his past ability with the bulls and boks the coach naturally believes in him and hoped he would rediscover that form.
that he failed ws not lost on the coach who admitted he may have failed by sticking with him.
flo on the other hand has never had a commanding stop the presses game for the boks. he was mediocre in every test he’s played so far, this was his best game imo.
18 Sep 2012, 07:51 am
Players/franchise/age
1-beast mtawarira(sharks)-27
2-chillyboy ralepelle(bulls)-26
3-coenie oosthuizen(cheetahs)-23
4-eben etzebeth(stormers)-20
5-juandre kruger(bulls)-26
6-francois louw/heinrich brussow(bath and cheetahs)-27 and 26
7-willem alberts(sharks)-28
8-duane vermeulen(stormers)-26
9-francois hougaard(bulls)-24
10-johan goosen(cheetahs)-20
11-bjorn basson(bulls)-25
12-frans steyn(sharks)-25
13-juan de jong(stormers)-24
14-bryan habana(stormers)-28
15-pat lambie(sharks)-22
16-adrian strauss(cheetahs)-26
17-pat cilliers(lions)-25
18-flip vd merwe(bulls)-27
19-marcell coetzee(sharks)-21
20-jano vermaak(bulls)-27
21-lionel mapoe(lions)-23
22-jaco taute(lions)-21
I believe must give this 22 a crack at the foes?
18 Sep 2012, 07:52 am
Louw was keeping his nose clean, McCaw had a field day at the break down with the two choir boys Louw and Vermuelen not raising a finger except some friendly clean ups
Other than that Flouw played well, a close call between him and Brussow.
18 Sep 2012, 08:00 am
@hendrikp-32:
Agree on all points.
I think a back three of Habana, Pieterson and Willie Le Roux would be unbelievable.
But I’ll be happy with Habana, Pieterson and Taute too.
Not sure where this leaves Lambie.
Is he a better option than Le Roux or Taute at 15 for the Boks?
If so, he’ll need game time to prove it.
Otherwise, I reckon he’ll have to make do with a bench role at best because he ain’t gonna be preferred to Goosen at 10.
18 Sep 2012, 08:12 am
Louw is a good solid toiler at openside and does his job well. Is he a superstar? No, but he’s probably the best all round no.7 you guys have. I rate Broussow as well but havent seen him play in ages due to injuries.
18 Sep 2012, 08:13 am
Brussouw any day of the week!!!!
Play 6. Brussow 7. Alberts 8. Vermeulen with Flouw on the Bench.
When Burger is fit again. 6. Brussouw 7. Burger 8. Vermeulen with Alberts and Flouw on the bench.
18 Sep 2012, 08:16 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-37:
Morne’s cracks began to appear in 2011, and were gaping in 2012. A drop in form is 4-8 games. Morne has been kak now for almost 18 months.
I wonder if it has something to do with him having a kid. I know from experience, it changes your mindset on everything around you (have a child), maybe it messed with Morne’s mojo?
Meyer let his personal views cloud his judgement.
18 Sep 2012, 08:21 am
No 8 in the country is better than Kanko at the lineout… He practically ran the Sharks lineout and was the goto jumper for the last 5 games in S15.
Only Spies can match him for pace…
And Kanko is probably only second to Daniel in terms of offloads and his classic 8 positioning, sweeping is second to none.
This year he has added a hard edge especially on defence that was never there in years before.
Actually on all attributes Kanko is the best proper 8 in SA by a healthy margin. I look forward to next years S15 for him to prove this.
Meanwhile the Boks can content themselves with 8s who play like blindsiders because the current 8s in the Bok setup are nothing but blindsiders.
18 Sep 2012, 08:22 am
@puff-40:
Yep, Lambie should be Goosen’s backup. He’s not a 15, he’s a 10. He won’t mind sitting on the bench for the Boks as long as he knows his role. It’s pissing him off now, because he knows he’s better than Zane.
Goosen and Lambie should cover us for the next 5-8 years (Goosen will pick up injuries).
Lambie will get a full season at 10 for the Sharks, and will remind us why he’s one of the best 10′s around.
18 Sep 2012, 08:23 am
@Heavens Game-44:
Great post.
18 Sep 2012, 08:24 am
@puff-22: I never said he was. Flo does the general stuff (carrying, lineouts etc) better than Heinrich.
Thats why I’d pick him ahead of HB at the moment.
If FLO wasn’t available or out of form then I’d go to HB in a heartbeat.
The fact is that they are both good and either must be in the side IMO
18 Sep 2012, 08:25 am
@Heavens Game-44: I won’t argue with you there, and I would have had him before Pierre in a heartbeat.
As to who is better between Vermeulen and Kanko, it’s hard to compare because they play so differently.
18 Sep 2012, 08:29 am
@londonshark-45: you sicken me varkie – wishing injury on the Goose.
18 Sep 2012, 08:29 am
@hendrikp-23: The daylight law changed things forever for the specialist fetchers. Heinrich made such an impact in the days where he was able to make the tackle and compete straight away and force the turnover or penalty.
He’s still effective of course, and so is FLO, who plays the whole exaggerated daylight move really well.
The big difference between now and then is that the counter rucking component of ruck play has taken more prominence than it did before.
I’m not disputing that HB is good or valuable to a team, but as i said above, on an all-round basis FLO gets my nod.
I didn’t always feel that way, but that’s my current view.
18 Sep 2012, 08:32 am
Francois Louw will make an excellent future bok captain.
I reckon its between him and Bissy.
18 Sep 2012, 08:42 am
@stormersboy-48: Yup… They do play differently… Kanko is an 8 proper.
Vermeulen, a decent player, is no classic 8 – more a blindside at 8.
18 Sep 2012, 08:43 am
Choose 6. Brussouw 7. Louw 8. Vermeulen
Have Alberts at 4 to partner Etsebeth at 5. These guys are mobile enough and will rule the breakdown.
Meyer saying the Morne must be nursed back to form is Bullsh it. The guy is limited in his ability and should never have made the Boks in 2009 or now.
18 Sep 2012, 08:43 am
@RL-49:
LOL, never. The kid is class, but the shoulder of his worries me. I hope I’m wrong, but I’ve had mates with similar problems, and it seems to hang around.
They need to put some serious muscle around Goosens shoulder, and fast.
18 Sep 2012, 08:47 am
@garth-53: Very interesting…
Either way, openside demands either Brusssouw or Louw. If one is injured the other must start there. Meyer better not even consider starting Coetzee at openside ever again…
18 Sep 2012, 08:47 am
I look forward to next years Super rugby when the following now unfashionable trio, at least on this mad corner of blogdom, farken embarrass the fashionable tunnel vision behemoths in Super rugby…
Sharks will start 8 Kanko, 7 Coetsee and 6 Daniels with Alberts off the bench.
Red faces beckon when skills, work rate and ballas beat dumbfuck size everytime. As they did in the business end of Super rugby this year.
18 Sep 2012, 08:48 am
@Jeraldjay-51: Agree with that ….
18 Sep 2012, 08:49 am
@Jeraldjay-51: Why will Francois Louw make an “excellent” Bok Captain… What attributes are there that AC and the rest of the WP sages missed when they allowed him to toodledoo off to bath while installing JdV as WP/Stormers Captain instead?
18 Sep 2012, 08:50 am
oh goodness we are fecked…he is still making excuse for Morne
forget how “mentally tough” he supposedly is, he is PLAYING kak!
“I do not want to knock individuals but the missed kicks were crucial,” the coach admitted. “Morné is mentally tough, though, and look at what happened to Bryan Habana.
“Bryan is now playing phenomenal rugby again,” Meyer said of the wing who has scored three tries in the Championship after recovering spectacularly from a poor previous season that led many to predict his Test career was over.
“The mental break will do Morné good and we will look at the situation after the Currie Cup matches this weekend and decide who will play against Australia in Pretoria.”
18 Sep 2012, 08:51 am
@londonshark-54: no roids! he’s already been caught for that.
18 Sep 2012, 08:52 am
Would be brilliant if Stormers could get F Louw back ……perhaps with this Bok stuff now Flo may want to return…..
Wakey wakey WP suits….
There is business to be done…
18 Sep 2012, 08:52 am
Still prefer Brussouw ahead of Louw.
Louw was not used as a lineout option in any case in the past 2 tests.
But Louw a good alternative to Brussouw if he is unavailable
18 Sep 2012, 08:54 am
@grant10-61: Agree with you. We managed without him this year, but imagine if we did have him.
Having said this i don’t think that our biggest problems are there.
18 Sep 2012, 08:55 am
Meyer is such a neanderthal…..
Morne himself should just admit that he isn’t up for it anymore and go make some big money playing in France or Japan. Imagine the respect he would earn from SA rugby fans? Everyone knows he hasn’t got it except fckn Heineken.
18 Sep 2012, 08:55 am
@Heavens Game-58:
HG, I said from the outset losing JJ, Sadie, Lionel Cronje, Whitehead and even Jacque Fourie was manageable but the when I heard we lost Flo I knew it would turn out to be a disaster.
18 Sep 2012, 08:56 am
@Transformation-59: Did you see him deflecting Morne kicking issues onto Frans Steyn who missed a couple of long range attempts? We all know Frans only takes the real 50-50 kicks over 50m.
18 Sep 2012, 08:57 am
@stormersboy-63:
Don’t worry you still have Peter Grant.
18 Sep 2012, 08:58 am
@Transformation-60: He didn’t get caught for roids mate. He tested positive for the stimulant methylhexaneamine, same as Chilli and Basson. And a whole bunch of other athletes.
You can get the stuff in cough syrup.
18 Sep 2012, 08:59 am
@gunther-67: Thanks for spoiling my day.
At least we have Brok as cover at 10. Otherwise my whole life would be meaningless.
18 Sep 2012, 09:01 am
@stormersboy-63: perhaps our suits will get it right and sign Jantjes as well
18 Sep 2012, 09:04 am
although i have less than zero trust in the wp suits acumen
18 Sep 2012, 09:04 am
@stormersboy-69:
Indeed.
His kicking game is coming along nicely.
Now if we can just stop him getting folded like a polony slice in the scrums we will have the ultimate prop half.
18 Sep 2012, 09:06 am
@grant10-71:
You should volunteer your services.
A passionate, articulate fellow like yourself.
Successful businessman with time on his hands.
Do you want me to set something up with Rob?
18 Sep 2012, 09:07 am
@grant10-70: That would be the best for me right now.
I am a little concerned about the loose forward situation as i have a suspicion that Schalk won’t be back, Carr maybe not too, which leaves us thinner than we would have liked.
We have at the moment:
6. Kolisi
7. Elstadt
8. Duanne.
backup
Koster.
No one else is at Super Rugby level imo and even Koster needs to still prove himself there.
so FLO would make an excellent 5th loosie, obviously starting some games, and rotating with some of the players, and then when the inevitable injuries happen we aren’t forced to play hookers at 6 (which will no longer be an option as he’s moving overseas)
18 Sep 2012, 09:07 am
@londonshark-43:
a wife and adjusting to married life (what the wife wants) in my opion can be more destabalising to a man than having a child.
some guys lose their drive a bit or a lot while others kick on.
i would look there first for signs of whats going wrong.
as importantly is to ask how much he practises a day and how much he practises after the ‘end of practise’ in a day? getting married you easily lose your priorities.
also, what and how is his kicking coach doing to keep him at his best?
i wonder if the kicking coach even bothered to study the data on the dunedin stadium, its wind/turbulance effects and the success rations of kickers since its inception?
also, did the kicking coach factor in the fact that the kiwis are using a different ball to us and have morne practise with the kak balls the kiwis are using?
18 Sep 2012, 09:07 am
@grant10-70: Look at how many Lions players have gone to WP out of the the list on the Taute article… I reckon if De Klerk has any influence at all, it will be a farken cold day in hell when any Lions player goes to WP/Stormers.
Jantjies will only probably go to Stormers if Sharks pass on any excessive demands from the young man.
18 Sep 2012, 09:09 am
@grant10-57: Keo read my mind yesterday with this topic
18 Sep 2012, 09:10 am
@gunther-72: He’s evolving. Give him time.
18 Sep 2012, 09:11 am
@stormersboy-74:
I think Schalk is a gooner.
18 Sep 2012, 09:11 am
@gunther-73:
Thanks….but no G….
18 Sep 2012, 09:13 am
@gunther-79: Yip. Just had a kid too,
Other things on his mind, like being able to play with his kids and not being in a wheelchair.
A great player and no one will begrudge him if he calls it.
18 Sep 2012, 09:14 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-75: got proof of your allegations about different rugby balls now?
eish, man you are sad…
18 Sep 2012, 09:14 am
@Heavens Game-76: I really would love Taute at the sharks but then Lambie must play 10 and we need the Sharks and Boks to be in sync. If Lambie is going to be groomed as the Bok 15 then Taute must go somewhere else and the Sharks must go after Jantjies.
18 Sep 2012, 09:14 am
@stormersboy-74: Yeah… Sadly Schalk will probably not be back… if he does, he probably wont be the same player either. Same with Jean Smith…
Will be an absolute medical miracle if both even come near their physical, barnstorming best on a consistent basis.
18 Sep 2012, 09:16 am
@stormersboy-81: I reckon this year break will buy Schalla another two years at least…he is too good to pack it in now. Same goes for Juan Smith, he has had a good two year break, he can still come back and offer a lot to bok rugby.
18 Sep 2012, 09:16 am
So Brussow is just a scavenger?
What hogwash.
He is a superb all-round loose forward – and especially ball carrier who goes forward in contact and runs superb support lines. Why can’t the journos or coaches see this????
No other loose forward would have scored that try against the touchline he scored against the Bulls this year.
18 Sep 2012, 09:18 am
@Skeppie-85: like Ali Williams did with the ABs?
two years out of top flight rugby is career ending, Im glad Ali is no longer in our setup…was never the same as before his injury
the game evolves rapidly..
18 Sep 2012, 09:18 am
@stormersboy-74:
Not sure Schalk will make it back….
F Louw was the heartbeat of the Stormers loose trio for 2 years….we have missed him big time…
Problem is WP suits are frustratingly limited …their inability to sort out loan deals in consecutive seasons has been a hallmark of their total inadequacy….costing the Stormers big time imo….
Sharks will in all likelihood get Jantjes and Taute….
we will probably pat ourselves on the backs with Cilliers and Rhodes and maybe Maku…..
But the big fish will in all likelihood slip the WP net….
18 Sep 2012, 09:18 am
@stormersboy-68: he was banned, no? bjorn and chili not…
18 Sep 2012, 09:18 am
@gunther-79:
Schalk should give Morne a call….
18 Sep 2012, 09:19 am
@Heavens Game-76: I agree….WP Suits are amateurs , absolute wallys…
18 Sep 2012, 09:20 am
@willievz-86: They can’t see it because it isn’t true. Brussow is brilliant on the ground but is not a test quality tackler or ball carrier. Sorry but that is the truth of it.
18 Sep 2012, 09:20 am
@Transformation-89:
SA player in drug cheat scandal? no way
18 Sep 2012, 09:22 am
@Skeppie-77: yes….I tell you Skeppie it is refreshing to see debates over who is best suited for the role if that debate is about 2 specialist pedigreed Pitbuls…..that in itself is a forward step…
18 Sep 2012, 09:22 am
@poppa69-87: You could be right but I still think both of them have the mental strength and mongrel to make it back. Juan Smith for me is the greatest bok forward since we came out of isolation. If the two of them don’t ever make it back it will have been a sad way to bow out of rugby. Imagine Ritchie Macaw getting injured now and not being able to play again, would be sad for rugby
18 Sep 2012, 09:22 am
@Skeppie-83: Fark the grooming… Very different strokes for different folks… The 15 Meyer wants is not the 15 Lambie is, or probably could be with distinction… Lambie has too much imagination for that…
This could possibly be the lineup at Sharks next year:
9. McLeod/Reinach
10. Lambie/Jantjies/Viljoen
11. Mvovo/Taute
12. Steyn/Whitehead/Bosman
13. Jordaan/JPP/Whitehead
14. JPP/Taute
15. Ludik/Viljoen/Taute
Better than the current Bok backs certainly, and enough depth to last an incredibly long season next year.
Taute will come to the Sharks as a wing/FB… Even then he will have to fight it out to get into the side…
Same with Jantjies…
Under Plum, competition is very healthy and if you are good enough and consistent enough a player will get a start without preconceptions…
Keegan a case in point – he fought his way into a starting birth and as Captain in a franchise with probably the biggest high class loosie depth in SA.
18 Sep 2012, 09:23 am
@grant10-94: Like we said yesterday at least we are able to even debate this topic, thank goodness for that.
18 Sep 2012, 09:23 am
Grant10
Please see how fickle these Keo’lings are.
1 good performance and now Louw is being hailed as the missing link…WTF
We are sooo fickle as fans as only as recently as the England tests we couldn’t stop raving enough about Coetsee and Alberts!
Anyways, my 2 cents, Flouw performed well because he has other attributes besides being primarily a fetcher.
I would still pick Brussouw ahead of him as he is more devastating in that role, IMHO, he is a demon tackler and carries very well!
18 Sep 2012, 09:24 am
@Heavens Game-84: Correct. It would be a miracle.
18 Sep 2012, 09:24 am
@willievz-86: And Brussow passes well….links better than most ….great player…
18 Sep 2012, 09:24 am
@Heavens Game-96: For my money Taute is the next bok 15, if he stays healthy he could be the next Jouba. I want him at the sharks but he must play 15 and not wing. I would rather he goes to another province than play wing for the sharks.
18 Sep 2012, 09:25 am
@Transformation-89: What’ your point transie?? You said he’d been caught for roids. I corrected you. A simple thanks will do.
18 Sep 2012, 09:28 am
@Skeppie-85: If they do and they can compete, then SA Rugby will undoubtedly be the better for it.
I for one am not holding my breath.
18 Sep 2012, 09:28 am
Skeppie
I am a huge Juan Smith fan, always have been. I would hate for him to come back not the same player and lessen his legacy.
he deserves to be remembered as a great imo.
18 Sep 2012, 09:29 am
@Skeppie-92: Rubbish. In the world cup quarter final Brussouw made 3 out of 4 tackles in 17 minutes until he went off injured – Louw made 3 out of 4 tackles in the remaining 63 minutes. How does that make Louw a better test tackler?
18 Sep 2012, 09:32 am
@papaown-98: For me it is more than who is better F Louw or Brussow [ by the way my vote goes to Brussow ]….
It is about a mind shift that HM has seemingly undergone…..
And I truly believe it is a significant one….
I have always maintained that at the breakdown most games are won and lost….and you have to fight fire with fire…..Pitbull against Pitbull……no Alsatian / Doberman hybrids please…..
Now just to let HM see the need for a proper 10 and we may be on our way to fulfilling some Bok potential……
Of course this all needs to go hand in hand with a revision of the game plan….the skop en jag en bid is a cowardly cop out….
18 Sep 2012, 09:32 am
@Skeppie-101: Think about it. Which Province will he be first choice 15 straight away?
Sharks have Ludik/Viljoen who are already in a juicy scrap for 15.
Stormers have Aplon/Pietersen
Bulls have Kirchner, and they clearly love Zane.
Free State have Daniller.
Clearly, Taute will not walk into any Super Rugby side as first choice 15. Despite being a somewhat illogical fans favourite above all others.
18 Sep 2012, 09:33 am
@poppa69-104: Good point I suppose. Interesting to know the AB’s opinion on Juan Smith, I have heard a few times that they always rated him the Boks hardest, most difficult forward to play against. Now that’s a rating that is worth something!
18 Sep 2012, 09:34 am
@Heavens Game-107: Other than Kings of course… I actually forgot that they are now a Super rugby franchise. Silly me, how could I.
18 Sep 2012, 09:35 am
@Bokhoring-105: Not rubbish my man not rubbish at all. As I posted yesterday stats are not a clear basis, Morne Steyn can make 10 tackles in a game but if 9 of them allow the ball carrier to make 5m through the tackle and then off load into space how is that a good thing, then people point to stats and say he made 10/11 tackles and defended well. And no I am not saying that brussow cannot tackle, clearly he can but for me Flo will make more offensive tackles at test level. Same with ball carrying.
18 Sep 2012, 09:35 am
@stormersboy-102: he ws on illegal substances, happy now?
18 Sep 2012, 09:37 am
@Heavens Game-107: IMO he is better than all of those you have listed. Province would not be a good option as they are pretty well stocked but for me he would start at the Cheetahs and should start ahead of Zane, although I agree he probably wouldn’t as Zane is an institution at the Bulls.
18 Sep 2012, 09:40 am
@Transformation-111: Being a little bit disingenuous and slightly devious this fine day…again. Fancy that…
18 Sep 2012, 09:41 am
@Transformation-111: It’s not about being happy. It’s about being accurate. There’s a big difference between unknowingly taking a banned stimulant that is present in many over the counter supplements and taking ‘roids, which is almost impossible to take unknowingly.
18 Sep 2012, 09:44 am
@Skeppie-112: Why is he “better”? How? Is he safer than Kirchner or Ludik under high ball… Does he have longer punt distance than Daniller/Pietersen/Viljoen… Is he better on counterrattack than Aplon… or is he a better tackler than Ludik/Aplon? Does he have more out and out pace than any of these guys?
I cant see it… Sorry…
18 Sep 2012, 09:44 am
@Heavens Game-113: i have to begin every day on the front foot
@stormersboy-114: i’m quite aware of what happened to johan, i was being flippant with londonshark but hey you turned into a “correction” exercise…
18 Sep 2012, 09:46 am
@poppa69-104: Well said. Been a long time since last lucid, eh?
18 Sep 2012, 09:47 am
didn’t read through the article for no other reason other than that cardenelli wrote it.
The Puff Divy of the Keo Journo’s.
Regardless of that, Louw really impressed me and was a great selection by meyer. A little out of the blue when everyone and their dog were calling for Brussouw, Daniels,etc.
Now, if the Boks can just decide on who their jumper at the back of the lineout will be it will take immense pressure off the middle of our lineout giving us more options and less contestable.
18 Sep 2012, 09:49 am
Brussow/Flo should always be the options at 6 the only other I would consider atm as a 6 would be J Stauus but hes gone, (kolisi & Cotzee could both become good 6s or 8s)
We are missing one of the best things that did come out of RWC – Alberts & Hougie as Super Death Subs. Look at the impact Smith makes for blacks and hougie did it in RWC as with Albrts uness Alberts make sure to do the hArd hitting early and breaks opposition then Cotzee & Hougie bring the speed in second half. (agree FSteyn be devistating with bit more form and attacking pivot, missing JPP..
Taute needs to get involved in Super Rugby we need him in bok mix ASAP!
18 Sep 2012, 09:50 am
@Heavens Game-115: Ok let’s break it down. He is pretty safe under the high ball, he is a solid defender so in those two aspects he is solid but IMO not necessarily better than some of the names you have mentioned. On the counter attack he has no peer, and I include Aplon in that (and I really rate Aplon) and in terms of pace he has more pace than all of the names you mentioned except possibly Aplon who may have more in the first 20m. So all in all for my money he is the complete package and to boot he is young and can be groomed into a world class bok. Daniller/Pietersen/Ludik/Aplon are all a few years older than him.
18 Sep 2012, 09:50 am
@poppa69-104:
yip, we definately need some of juan smits hard edge.
Just think, we used to have him,bakkies, guthro, bismaark and skalk in the pack.
Which brings me to believe that the kiwi pack is also not quite as good at the moment either.
18 Sep 2012, 09:50 am
For me last weekend was the first time Louw showed up to the party at test level, good game. Penalty at the end sealed the result for NZ however, Meyer is right to say they’re penalised a lot.
18 Sep 2012, 09:52 am
@Guns-119: Do you mean Josh Strauss? As a 6?
18 Sep 2012, 09:54 am
@poppa69-82:
listen dimwit, kiwis are using a different ball to the one we’re using in sa and in many places elsewhere.
“pringboks captain Jean de Villiers suggested the switch from the Gilbert ball which is used in South Africa, to the adidas ball used in New Zealand, was a factor.
England’s Jonny Wilkinson also blamed the ball during his struggles during last year’s World Cup, when he kicked seven from 14 in Dunedin.”
18 Sep 2012, 09:58 am
Brig – Kiwi pack was guilty of playing as individuals against boks, don’t think they will be like that in the return game. we do miss Thirn and Kaino, they were our Smiths.
but you need to adapt or die, as an AB fan I am quite glad they were comprehensively outplayed.
think Mealamu and Retallick should have started though, and won’t be surprised in these are thaw changes for the soccer city game, also think Vito may get in ahead of Messan
HG. lucid? it’s the air in the French countryside, it’s why your posts resemble intelligence at the moment
18 Sep 2012, 09:59 am
@stormersboy-114:
he should be ashamed of himself, really.
to taint someone as a steroid user just like that.
18 Sep 2012, 09:59 am
@Skeppie-110: Now you are talking sh_it. Morne would never make 10 tackles in a game.
18 Sep 2012, 09:59 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-121:
And we still lost more than we won against the top sides, maybe less brawn and more finesse, skill and intelligence is the way to go ? Get the balance right and we will be unbeatable.
18 Sep 2012, 10:00 am
@garth-53: Sorry Garth
6. Brussouw 7. Louw 8. Vermeulen
Have Alberts at 4 to partner Etsebeth at 5. These guys are mobile enough and will rule the breakdown.
This just makes far too much sense, so cant be a possibility
PS. Think Bekker will come right soon, once hes over his injuries properly
18 Sep 2012, 10:01 am
Bakkies. so JDV is making excuses now? same for both teams chump. or did the kiwis use different rugby balls at the WC than everyone else?
lmfao. you are really pathetic. and do all Saffas a disservice with your continual paranoia
seek help buddy.
18 Sep 2012, 10:05 am
@Skeppie-120: I dont agree that he is the “full package”… Not even close.
That peerless counterrattacking you talk of: At what level has he shown that?
Aplon and even Ludik have shown very good counterrattacking at Super Rugby level.
Certainly he is not slow, but there is no way that he is the fastest 15 in SA.
You talk of Joubert like qualities, however I remember Jouba as being a master of joining the backline at pace… Taute is not near that… Actually I reckon Lambie joins the backline from Fullback better than any of the other 15s. Jouba was also master of positioning. Taute is no master here yet… I reckon the best 2 fullbacks at positioning are Pietersen and Ludik.
I suspect that with Taute we may very much have a case of overrate. He is good, has talent, but is nowhere as good as he is made out to be.
18 Sep 2012, 10:06 am
@garth-127: Ok ok, 10 “pulls on a jersey”
18 Sep 2012, 10:07 am
Bekker also looked lively, albeit against tiring legs…
If he can regain some form, our lock stocks will start to come together nicely – Etzebeth & Kruger being the standout performers throughout 2012, strong and disciplined performance showcased by Flip this passed weekend, and an improving Bressler in the wings.
Reminded me of the episode where Ray Jennings dropped Makhaya Ntini out of the Protea squad. The “Mdingi Express” express came back more hungrier for success, and enjoyed a bit of a purple patch for a season or two. That’s the sort of “management” Bekker needs at the moment.
18 Sep 2012, 10:07 am
@Bok fan-129: Flo and Brussow in the team and Alberts at lock? Ok so then we are loaded to compete at the breakdown but now have jeaposdised our 1st phase. Lineout options will be reduced dramatically and our scrum will battle. We need balance, can’t simply play who we like.
18 Sep 2012, 10:08 am
@poppa69-125: Lol… Fark off with the Perpignan air bulldust…
18 Sep 2012, 10:08 am
@poppa69-130:
the kak weather / atmospheric conditions of that ****** stadium may be the same for both teams but the familiarity with the ball is not.
your teams play with it far more often therefore are able to become more comfortable and knowlegable with its use and how to best strike it for success.
non kiwis are used to a very different ball and are therefore better at its use than they are with the adidas balls.
18 Sep 2012, 10:09 am
s h i t t y
18 Sep 2012, 10:09 am
@Heavens Game-131: S15 just like the others, except he has had to do it in a team that was continually getting pumped which makes his acheivements even more noteworthy. If Taute is not the quickest out of the current S15 fullbacks then enlighten me as to who is?
18 Sep 2012, 10:10 am
@Pot Blou Gevaar-133: Great post!
18 Sep 2012, 10:14 am
@Skeppie-139:
18 Sep 2012, 10:21 am
@Skeppie-138: Aplon faster than him definitely… Kirchner too… I reckon he is probably level with Ludik for pace. But he certainly is not safer under high ball than Ludik and certainly is not a better one on one tackler than either Aplon or Ludik.
However, having pace does not make a 15 elusive as we clearly see with Zane. Taute is somehwat elusive but not out and out better than a few of the other fullbacks who have already gone through the highs and lows of having to perform consistently at the highest levels – not some flash in the pan brilliance here and there.
18 Sep 2012, 10:22 am
@touch.pause.engage-128:
our issue has generally always been with our backs at bok level. We have generally always been able to get enough ball. If there has been issues with the boks I’d say that we lack for tighthead props. a hardnosed prop that can damage opposition. Also, quality opensiders. Krige was shite, Aiken before him,etc.
This is telling in the penalty count that by default also loses you games.
Lets not forget that we are in an era were newzealand have 2 players that could be considered the greatest ever to play for them as well. mccaw and carter.
18 Sep 2012, 10:30 am
One thing that really annoyed me on Saturday – why do we give the opposition 4 m extra territory on our lineouts? Is it because the forwards are trying to get closer to Morne who is standing 25m back?
This is nonsense – you don’t give them a bl00dy inch.
18 Sep 2012, 10:32 am
@Skeppie-134: The only non jumper would be Brussow, Flo and Vermeulen are very capable jumpers. As I mentioned I think Bekker will come right and would be in the mix with Alberts rotating with the loosies more and backup for extra grunt in the locks depending on the opposition. The breakdown and your number 10 are the 2 most critical aspects in the modern game IMO, always been 10, breakdown more recently.
Our problems at scrum time is because we’ve had an average tighthead for about 6 years now, if we could bring back WP Nel, Mujati, Human or someone that can do the job consistenly, then this wouldnt be a factor
18 Sep 2012, 10:38 am
@Heavens Game-141: Never, Kirchner is no where near as fast as Taute. I reckon Aplon may take him over a short distance but possibly not past 40m. I agree pace is not everything but IMO (And it’s an opinion) Taute is the most complete 15 we have available.
18 Sep 2012, 10:40 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-124: It should be one regulation ball for the entire tournament. I wonder why they change them.
18 Sep 2012, 10:40 am
@Bok fan-144: I think you are underestimating the importance of set pieces. I agree the breakdown is vitally important and even though I would rather go with Flo, I would be happy with Brussow in the side as well however that said we still need forwards who give us clean scrum ball and good attacking lineout pill.
18 Sep 2012, 10:40 am
@Pot Blou Gevaar-133: and Morne?
he’s getting preferential treatment imo
18 Sep 2012, 10:41 am
@Big Hit-146: Why would the kiwi’s use the normal ball for S15 and then change it for the tests? Surely this would disadvantage their players as well?
18 Sep 2012, 10:43 am
@Skeppie-147: but we don’t attack from good set piece ball, all we do is set up pods to create phases and if that doesn’t work we kick it up for the chasers or morne attempts to drop whether it is the 1st of 79th min.
18 Sep 2012, 10:44 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-142:
Fair comment !! Prior to the pro era our backs were magnificent and we were well known for our running rugby, since 1996 we have never reached those same heights in respect of backline play.
18 Sep 2012, 10:45 am
@Skeppie-149: maybe they have a deal with Adidas? the Gilbert ball was used in Mendoza and on the Gold Coast.
18 Sep 2012, 10:45 am
@Transformation-150: Just because we don’t doesn’t mean we should’nt. No point in having great players on the deck but compromising your set piece and running options.
18 Sep 2012, 10:46 am
@Skeppie-145: How can you state that other than having knowledge of speed times…
Never the less IMO Taute is certainly not the most “complete” 15 in SA… Not by a long shot.
18 Sep 2012, 10:47 am
@Transformation-89: a ban is hardly conclusive, all steroid cheats deny it to the hilt, they will make any excuse
18 Sep 2012, 10:49 am
@Heavens Game-154: Like I said HG it’s my opinion. If I had the speed stats then I suppose we could knock this on it’s head, I am just basing my opinion on what I see.
18 Sep 2012, 10:49 am
You watch, when Brussow eventualy makes it back into the team, these clowns will claim he go his groove back when infact he never lost it. I’m happy with Francois Louw being there, but Heinrich would be an even further improvement. Obviuosly there is no way of proving this until he makes the team again to showcase what he is made of. Definitely one of the 1st names I’ll jot down on the teamsheet. His omission being the biggest dissapointment in HM’s 1st squad announcement.
18 Sep 2012, 10:51 am
@Pot Blou Gevaar-133: As does Morne and Spies. Habana also needed it the last 3 years
18 Sep 2012, 10:52 am
@UptheGuts-157: Hmmm clowns….now you are being mean
18 Sep 2012, 10:56 am
@Big Hit-152: I can’t see why the ball should ever be an issue. Fck me! What does a Adidas matchball cost? NZ$50? Hell, buy 10! So when the kickers practice they have every ball used in internationals at their disposal. Blaming the ball is lame imo. There are always ways around things like that. Commonicity usualy takes care of most them.
18 Sep 2012, 10:57 am
@Skeppie-159: Don’t be so defensive mate! Wasn’t talking about you. Meant keo clowns!
18 Sep 2012, 11:00 am
@UptheGuts-157: Spot on, was a sign of things to come and the first time I doubted Meyer
18 Sep 2012, 11:06 am
@UptheGuts-160: not really the point though, any credible rugby tournament should have a regulation ball
18 Sep 2012, 11:10 am
@UptheGuts-160: The previous occassion ball issues came up was with Braam van Staaten in Aus, I think. Conjecture, I know but to me he was even deadlier than Morne. If that’s possible. Don’t what type of ball the Aussies used at the time but I think it was lame then and still think so today. A proffesional outfit should make sure they have all bases covered if they want to be successfull. Just buy evry fckn ball used. It realy is that simple.
18 Sep 2012, 11:14 am
@UptheGuts-161: Aww thanks, now I feel wanted. Seriously though, I may prefer Flo personally but it does not mean I do not rate Brussow, he is a very, very good rugby player
18 Sep 2012, 11:16 am
@Big Hit-163: So i take it you expect Cruden to kick at 30% in his next 2 games then, not using the Adidas ball? Didn’t think so. Morne lost form in all facets including goalkicking and that’s the jist of it. Which ball did they use on previous tours to NZ?
18 Sep 2012, 11:21 am
These are the best full backs / wings in the country
Willie Le Roux
Andries Coetsee
JPP
Aplon
F. Steyn
P. Lambie
Joe Pietersen
Jaco Taut
Ludik
Viljoen
Kirchner
Daniller
More or less in that order
Taute is being hailed as an immediate Springbok at 15 but he’s better utilized as another 13 / 14 option similar to JPP
However at 13 / 14 we have JPP, De Villiers, Mapoe, Serfontein, De Jongh, Jordaan, Sadie, Engelbrecht, JP Du Plessies, Habana, Aplon
SO if Bok coaches would take some NOTE
W. Le Roux and A. Coetsee make the most exciting and game breaking options at 15 and can double as 11 or 14 options while Taute, JPP, Mapoe, Jordaan, De Jongh, Rhule, Serfontein, Engelbrecht, JP Du Plessis should be fighting it out for outside center / wing berths.
Also in terms of straight line speed Taute is not nearly as quick as some would believe he is, he is strong and big, but in terms of quick he is middle of the road.
Make a better 13 / 14 than a full back imo.
18 Sep 2012, 11:24 am
Ug HM is saying all the wrong things ‘we got it 100% right’ & ‘it was the right gameplan’ . Sure the forwards dominated, but stating that the game plan worked is folly.
The SA rugby public dont want MS near a bok jersey ever again. He can remain with the bulls and who knows, one day perhaps Goosen and his new deputy (whoever that may be Lambie or Jantjies) will be out injured…
Then he can come back and prove a point.
A big blessing would be for MS to go abroad…
18 Sep 2012, 11:28 am
SA conservative cowardly coaches have destroyed SA traditional running rugby
starting with Ian Mack and progressing through Williams, Kitch, Maakgraaf, Streauli, White, PdV under Smit/Matfield/FdP alliance, and now Meyer these coaches have systematically all but destroyed ‘TRADITIONAL’ SA rugby legacy of the famous years gone by.
Only ones who kept a reasonable semblance of a balanced forwards / backs total rugby momentum was Mallet and Solomons, the others killed SA rugby stone dead and now they busy preparing the casket for the burial.
Its all just plainly down to fear based ideology, too afraid to lose so they don’t know how to win… that why this current moron is trying to resurrect Morne Steyn as his prime go to No.10 .. go f’ng figure we ain’t going anywhere in any kind of hurry under this idiot.
Johan Goosen will soon be turned into another Liefling same as they tried cloning FdP into Hougaard..
No hope in hell while SA rugby coaches read from the gospel according to the Ten Man rugby code.
18 Sep 2012, 11:30 am
@Heavens Game-44: Agreed
18 Sep 2012, 11:30 am
Did Brossouw play for Freestate on the weekend? Did anyone watch? Was he any good?
18 Sep 2012, 11:33 am
@fitz1ella-169: did you forget the names of the wp coaches because tries are not very common from wp of late?
18 Sep 2012, 11:33 am
@Big Hit-146:
yes, but in instances where it is not then our kicking coach needs to be awake to these facts. i can only wonder whether they had morne training with both types of balls here in sa.
also whether they took any consideration of the success ratio for all kicks taken at the stadium, studied a few tapes of the ones that are successful and factored this into how he should attempt his kicks.
18 Sep 2012, 11:35 am
under Ian Mac the sharks were a try scoring MACHINE!
he installed honiball at 10, possibly the no. 1 running flyhalf the boks have had since readmission.
Ian Mac, now there is a legend.
18 Sep 2012, 11:36 am
Home series
15. Kirchner (JPP in the future). Lambie should get some game time at the Sharks first, had very little since his return. Should be competiting for 10 or 12 IMO
14. Habana (Still not convinced yet, great try though)
13. Jean (Wow that was an interesting performance on Sat!)
12. Frans
11. Hougie
10. Elton (Goosen with 30min or to start, dont mind)
9. Pienaar (Less kicking please – Fourie needs an SOS call)
8. Vermeulen
7. Flo/ Alberts
6. Brussow
5. Kruger
4. Etsebeth/Bekker
3. Very surprised at SAs lack of tight heads over the years – Send and SOS abroad
2. Strauss (Liebenberg deserves 30min)
1. Beast (Guthro as backup)
18 Sep 2012, 11:37 am
sheesh, the sharks were awesome in those days under Mac.
players like james small, honiball, jouba, jeremy thomson, **** muir, pieter muller had us in raptures at the tank.
of course we were natal back then, men of black and white.
dynamite.
18 Sep 2012, 11:38 am
@blik-171: He did, played quite well. The main thing about Brussow is that hes a BMT player and takes it up quite a few notches when playing for the Boks
18 Sep 2012, 11:38 am
@Skeppie-165: You know what I find most frustrating about this whole saga? 2/3 of the season gone and I’m no closer in feeling confident HM will take our game to greater heights. Our gameplan is very much the same since ’04, selection issues galore. Everyone who knows him seems to think he is this great student of the game. An astute rugbybrain. So why stick to this kick chase game. Why are all our plays off the lineout the same, time and time again? Why don’t he know that variation is key, especially with the Boks. Don’t get me wrong, by no means am I trying to profess I know more than him but the abovementioned was clear for all to see 2 years ago. Has he noticed that our breakdown technique is way under-par? These are the kind of things I wanted to see being worked on. Admittedly somethings take longer than others to sort out but I don’t think enough has been done to allay any fears I had. And to top it, the changes for the better imo to come out of this year so far has all been thrushed upon him. His statements in the media shows that much. Student of the game my ***!!!!
18 Sep 2012, 11:38 am
@UptheGuts-166: It’s not about Steyn or Cruden, it’s that there should be one regulation ball for any professional rugby tournament or series, that should be a given.
18 Sep 2012, 11:39 am
@rangerman-176: Ah, James Small. Another Lions fullback poached by the Shoks. Then came Ludik. And now you want Taute.
If we stuck Casper De Vries in the 15 jersey, you lot would buy him too.
18 Sep 2012, 11:40 am
the flat lying flyhalf championed by Mac at that time is exactly what people are screaming for right now.
now lets see, which provinces currently have such an approach?
the bulls? no
wp? no
fs and the lions for sure and the mighty mighty sharkies too.
18 Sep 2012, 11:40 am
Ian Mack was a kak Bok coach who lost more often than he won against international competition and developed the forward style game that White and Streauli bought into
who the fck is talking about provincial coaches here, we are talking national coaches and ONLY Mallet and Solomons with Carel Du Plessis ACTUALLY the architect of that blue print did ANY justice to a complete total rugby philosophy.. PdV wanted to install a total rugby ideal but we all know how that turned out, John Smit and his stooges overruled him emphatically and PdV became the puppet coach of the JW play without the ball kick and chase hail Mary arsecreeps.
18 Sep 2012, 11:41 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-173: SA had no real option but to take the kicks as they were so terrible at finishing tries, imho that should be the coach’s primary concern.
18 Sep 2012, 11:41 am
Some Boks released for Absa Currie Cup duty
——————————————————————————–
18 September 2012, 11:33
Five members of the Springbok squad that returned from New Zealand on Monday have been released to their provinces to play in the Absa Currie Cup this weekend.
The released players were all part of the 28-man squad that played Australia and New Zealand on consecutive weekends in The Castle Rugby Championship, but were not part of the match 22 that faced the All Blacks in Dunedin on Saturday.
They are Craig Burden (The Sharks), Frans Malherbe (DHL Western Province), Jacques Potgieter (Vodacom Blue Bulls), Jano Vermaak (Vodacom Blue Bulls) and Lwazi Mvovo (The Sharks).
The sixth player that was not part of the match 22 in Dunedin, Pat Cilliers (MTN Golden Lions), is currently injured and not available for selection this weekend.
A Springbok squad of 30 players for the final two tests in The Castle Rugby Championship – on September 29 against Australia at Loftus Versfeld and on October 6 against New Zealand at Soccer City – will be announced at the conclusion of round seven of the Absa Currie Cup Premier Division on Saturday evening.
The squad will convene in Johannesburg on Sunday evening to start preparations for the tests against Australia and New
18 Sep 2012, 11:42 am
@rangerman-174: I wish Ian M would start challenging Meyer a bit more when it comes to Bok selections…..show us what a real legend he is
(Jooste included in that selection trinity)
18 Sep 2012, 11:42 am
@katman-180:
james played wing at the lions didnt he?
he certainly did for natal and the boks.
personally i dont want taute or elton to come to the sharks. they will battle to make the starting line up and might cause unhappiness in the squad too. let them go to the kings or the wp.
18 Sep 2012, 11:44 am
@fitz1ella-182: Mac didnt have say over selections when he was bok coach and was given less time than meyer has had.
he was royally screwed by luyt the cabbage eater.
point is he was a proponent of running rugby so your rant is a load of poo as usual
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-185: i am not that unhappy about the bok squad actually.
Mac is as usual doing a fine job.
18 Sep 2012, 11:44 am
@rangerman-186: He started off at fullback. I remember going to see his very first game at Ellis Park. He was 19, I think, and hailed as a wunderkind. He then switched between fullback and wing for a while, before settling on the right wing.
18 Sep 2012, 11:46 am
@Bok fan-177: Did he play 80 min? If selected, will he be matchfit for the game against Aus?
18 Sep 2012, 11:46 am
@katman-188: ok.
he was a wunderkind.
a troubled flippen genius.
hell i rated small when he was in his prime. at the sharks
18 Sep 2012, 11:48 am
Interesting that Lambie not being weekend off to play CC rugby….
I think he will start against Aussies at 15
18 Sep 2012, 11:52 am
@blik-189: Yes I think he played the full 80, def match fit now
18 Sep 2012, 11:52 am
@fitz1ella-182: You’re wasting time fighting here while you could be typing your CV and mailing it to SARU. I’ve started one for you:
1958 – 1961: Completed standard 8.
1962 – Turned vegetarian after a bad experience that combined strong LSD with a rancid sosatie.
1968 – 1971: Played rhythm guitar in prog-folk ensamble, Decoupage Days.
1972 – present: Owner/manager of Outhouse Extraordinaire: because a longdrop isn’t just a longdrop.
1996 – Voted most likely in his family to become a rugby coach.
18 Sep 2012, 11:52 am
lambie should have been released to play cc.
the lad has had barely any gametime over the last few months and will probably not be match sharp at all.
18 Sep 2012, 11:54 am
James Small was from Jeppe probably got taught by JW at school.. but he eventually settled in Cape Town where nearly ALL disgruntled bananaboys hang out.. same as disgruntled ex Jo,burgers..
James was destroyed by a woman.. poor dude I kinda felt for him when Christina ripped his heart apart. Good dude back at the ranch.. genuine kinda guy.. Boks could do with a little more of that genuine rebel without a cause attitude.. under Heyneke Meyer I kinda doubt it.. they all have to be singing from the same hail Mary hymn sheet in Heyneke’s cause.
18 Sep 2012, 11:57 am
@grant10-191: They should have sent de Jongh back as well. He and Lambie need to be playing rugby somewhere…..
Lambie is one of the true victims of Meyer’s insanity. The poor kid looks so damn unhappy, and it’s justifiable 100%. The poor fellow must be about as ‘match fit’ and ‘match sharp’ as what I am…..
If Meyer throws him in next week at 15? At least Duane and Goosen had about 50 minutes of Currie Cup….what does Lambie have?
No, he should have released him, even if he wants to start him next week – in fact ESPECIALLY if he wants to start him next week.
18 Sep 2012, 11:58 am
@katman-193: what you doing here pseudo boer who thinks he’s white.. or english .. or something quite as confused as that? You orchestrating new anglicized ditty’s to go with your latest Boy George collection?
Saru could do a lot worse than employ some proper rugby brains for a change.. seems they not nearly inclined to consider common sense as an option, the more boer bevok they are the better.. till they lose 49-0 and the rest then the sky starts falling on their dumbfck boer bevokte heads.
18 Sep 2012, 11:58 am
At best Coetzee plays 8 or 7, putting him into a fetcher role is like expecting M Steyn to light up the backline!!!
Our best fetcher options ar Brussouw and Flouw!
18 Sep 2012, 11:59 am
@fitz1ella-197: Get typing then, little weasel. Have your people contact their people. Set your PR machine in motion. I can’t wait to see your first interview. Want to test it on this audience?
18 Sep 2012, 12:02 pm
@Big Hit-179: Fact is, that’s not the case. As it stands now, Unions can use any make of ball that probably adhere to certain specifications. That would be my guess. Did Jean or Morne have a chat to Jurie Roux to have a single make matchball across the comp? If not, did they acquire all the balls used for goalkickers to practice with to give them the best chance at success? To cry foul after the fact is just so lame and totaly unprofessional. Imho
18 Sep 2012, 12:04 pm
@fitz1ella-195: as usual you talk out your bum.
he went to greenside.
from wiki:
“Small attended Risidale Primary School and Greenside High School in Johannesburg, South Africa.”
wake up.
18 Sep 2012, 12:04 pm
@katman-199: this little weasel will kick that fuckup boerbefokte moronic snot nosed snout of yours straight through the back of your fuckup half boer half english dumbfck head. When do we set up that little tete tete big fat disgruntled boertjie befokte clown?
18 Sep 2012, 12:06 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-196: You make sense …
18 Sep 2012, 12:06 pm
@fitz1ella-202:
you have a problem with katman speaking engels?
you are such an angry man lol.
18 Sep 2012, 12:07 pm
@UptheGuts-178: Look we must be philosopical here and be aware that he knows a lot that we don’t…there must be a reason for him doing what he is doing. I personally don;t agree with some of his decisions but I do have confidence that he will grow into a really good coach. I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that he inherited a new team who had a very confused game plan under PDivvy, for my money we need to grant him some time to build a great team with the proper game plan. That said if he does not cut the mustard he must be replaced
18 Sep 2012, 12:08 pm
@katman-180: No not Casper, altough he has a great work rate his defence is suspect. Now if you managed to put Tjokkie into a 15 jersey, then we would be interested!
18 Sep 2012, 12:10 pm
@fitz1ella-202: I tried to set up a rugby date, remember, but you got all coy and chickened out. Looks like you start the week off brave and get more and more wimpish as the weekend draws near.
18 Sep 2012, 12:11 pm
@fitz1ella-197: Sorry my man but Katman owned you there.
18 Sep 2012, 12:14 pm
@Skeppie-206: Casper wasn’t actual a real selection. I just used a silly name to prove a point.
The guy we have planned for fullback is Nathaniel. Hands off.
18 Sep 2012, 12:14 pm
Australia flyhalf Quade Cooper needs more surgery on the same knee he injured at last year’s World Cup and has been ruled out of the rest of the Castle Rugby Championship.
The Australian Rugby Union says scans in Brisbane on Tuesday showed a small chip of cartilage in Cooper’s right knee and the playmaker would need an operation “to clean up” the problem.
Having only recently returned for the Wallabies, Cooper will miss Australia’s final two games of the southern hemisphere competition, at South Africa on September 29 and Argentina the following weekend.
The ARU says Cooper’s injury is not long term and he may be available for the end-of-year tour to Europe. Australia will name a 28-man squad for the matches against the
18 Sep 2012, 12:15 pm
‘casper de vries’
konnichiwa almal dis ek, casper de vries… :lol;
18 Sep 2012, 12:17 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-211: Jy behoort te weet. Wanneer kom die Steve Hofmeyr roasting op Comedy central op DSTV?
18 Sep 2012, 12:17 pm
francois louw highlights
http://vimeo.com/38907656
18 Sep 2012, 12:18 pm
See 5 players have been released for CC duty this weekend. And Pat Lambie is still kept by Meyer???? He needs game time I think. OR does Meyer value players rather training with the squad or what? Or are these players actually released for the rest of the RC. So it looks to me as if Lambie will still be selected and still on the bench.
Here is part of the article from SuperSport.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Five Boks released for Currie Cup duty
——————————————————————————–
18 September 2012, 11:50
Five members of the Springbok squad that returned from New Zealand on Monday have been released to their provinces to play in the Absa Currie Cup this weekend.
The released players were all part of the 28-man squad that played Australia and New Zealand on consecutive weekends in The Castle Rugby Championship, but were not part of the match 22 that faced the All Blacks in Dunedin on Saturday.
They are Craig Burden (The Sharks), Frans Malherbe (DHL Western Province), Jacques Potgieter (Vodacom Blue Bulls), Jano Vermaak (Vodacom Blue Bulls) and Lwazi Mvovo (The Sharks).
The sixth player that was not part of the match 22 in Dunedin, Pat Cilliers (MTN Golden Lions), is currently injured and not available for selection this weekend.
A Springbok squad of 30 players for the final two tests in The Castle Rugby Championship – on September 29 against Australia at Loftus Versfeld and on October 6 against New Zealand at Soccer City – will be announced at the conclusion of round seven of the Absa Currie Cup Premier Division on Saturday evening.
18 Sep 2012, 12:19 pm
@katman-207:
No I said come try your luck and stick your overrated snout here and you won’t get through the front door.. you welcome fuckface anytime it so enthuses you to come try your luck.. where were you on D day when you so enthusiastically consented to come teach me what’s what around this boerbefokte game you think you such a fundi of ? Little fuckwit runtcunt.. come try your luck .. we see who the clever little dickiebird piece of boer befokte garbage is then.
@Skeppie-208: believe whatever you will about who owns who.. this little piece of self aggrandized little scumbag needs his arse whipped straight through his snotty nosed snout.. and I be quite happy to do him that favor and fix his little runtcunt over aggrandized brain up for him good.
18 Sep 2012, 12:20 pm
@katman-209: Oh I see….I thought you were using actual names. Ok with you now. And I/we agree, we will not poach Nathaniel (I don;t think he will do well in the Durban humidity anyway) but should you ever consider Roepman for the jersey we will make a bid.
18 Sep 2012, 12:21 pm
@Puma-214: So looking at those players released to their franchise, it seems as if they will not be needed for the RC. Well it seems that way to me.
So with Mvovo back will JPP be ready? Hoping JPP will be ready. Think they said it will be 8 weeks until he plays after his thumb op. He has been out 7 weeks so far.
18 Sep 2012, 12:21 pm
@fitz1ella-215: no, thats not true.
you initially said katman must come join yoou.
then you said you would never meet him as he didnt deserve a place at your table.
you seem a bit confused.
have a lie down, the zimbos can do the plastering.
18 Sep 2012, 12:22 pm
@fitz1ella-215: But that is why he owns you…..the red mist descends pretty quickly with you.
18 Sep 2012, 12:23 pm
Would have been great to have Pat play fh for the Sharks this weekend against the Lions. What a match up it would have been with Elton on for Lions and Pat for Sharks.
18 Sep 2012, 12:24 pm
@Skeppie-219:
i blame it on the broccoli.
18 Sep 2012, 12:25 pm
@rangerman-218: go read what I said.. you little bumchun made the overtures.. I said he’s welcome to come try his luck but he won’t get through the front door..
I then told somebody else I have no inclination affording him an audience in order for him to try and work out his own inadequacies at my expense.. but if he reckons I chickened out let him come show his little runtcunt boertjie face and we see who’s the big bok halfwit half engels non enlightened little boertjie then.
18 Sep 2012, 12:25 pm
@Puma-220: that would have been great indeed puma.
18 Sep 2012, 12:26 pm
@fitz1ella-215: You don’t like boere? Is that not xenophobic? What if people started treating your people like lepers? Oh that’s right, they do. My bad.
18 Sep 2012, 12:27 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-212:
jammer, ek weet nie.
18 Sep 2012, 12:28 pm
@Skeppie-216: Good call. Roepman has a massive boot. He can fit a small bar fridge in there plus the weekend’s grass cuttings.
18 Sep 2012, 12:29 pm
@UptheGuts-200: Well I agree, SARU ‘dropped the ball’ in that respect. In fairness to Morne Steyn it was not him who mentioned the ball.
18 Sep 2012, 12:29 pm
@rangerman-223: Would have. Meyer has kept him with the Bok squad though, he is not released for CC. Strange as he has not had any game time with Boks. Only 15min. Thought a CC game would do him more good than not.
Now if he is selected again for Boks hope he gets more than bloody 5min. Just can’t understand only giving him so little time. Give the youngster 25min at least.
18 Sep 2012, 12:31 pm
@Puma-217: I think I heard this morning that JP will be back in about 2 weeks’ time. I also feel that Lambie should have been released to play for the Sharks this weekend: he only had about 15 minutes out of a potential 320 – ridiculous !! Like I said on another thread it seems that Zane will start again next week: HM defended him and said he was steady and played well !! (LMAO)
18 Sep 2012, 12:31 pm
lmao
you’re a chop katters
18 Sep 2012, 12:36 pm
@CharlesM-229: Well if we had Pat back he would play fh for the full 80min this week. Pity. I hope he now can get more game time with the Boks. It is absolutely rediculous leaving him on the bench like that for almost the full 3 games. Only getting 15min. He would make a difference with Goosen as well. Not sure why he keeps selecting Zane. Zane was okay last week, there was nothing special at all. Pat would have added more. Anyhow we see after this weekend. Now if he does not make the Bok squad or the bench I will be angry, as we at the Sharks need him for this Lions game.
18 Sep 2012, 12:36 pm
@CharlesM-229:
If Zane backed himself just a tiny bit he would have score in the 5th minute. The pass to Habana wasn’t necessary.
18 Sep 2012, 12:38 pm
@CharlesM-229: So that means JPP could be back for the Oz test. Well if he is he will probably come from the bench. Seeing he has not played for 8 weeks. Such a pity he broke his thumb, was in brilliant form. Was our best wing this year. Awesome player.
18 Sep 2012, 12:42 pm
@fitz1ella-222:
my little bumchum.
you sound like a 12 year old, just talk rugby like a normal person and you will be fine.
surely the watchatutus told you that what you put out into the universe is what you get back?
18 Sep 2012, 12:43 pm
@Skeppie-205: No arguments here he knows a lot than we do. All the more perplexing his squad, persistent ly daft selections and continuedly horrid gameplan. To me this looks awfully like the same confused gameplan as PdV’s, as you say. Or the one Matfield and co demanded we play. I looked forward to this year with alot of enthusiam. Finaly a coach everyone said was up to scratch and more. Doubt settled in with his very first act as coach when he announced his squad. From there it just went from bad to worse. A couple of things has happened since then that has cause for some relief, but his comments in the media have me worried. A boon for him is wanting Goosen and Vermeulen from the get go and bringing in Flo. Picking the right players is the lesser of my worries tho. Having our players run smackbang into the defensive line before kicking yet another high one, the biggest. But I live in hope. About the only thing to keep a Bok supporter sane.
18 Sep 2012, 12:45 pm
Lol I see Katman handing Skop his lunch as usual
Nothing quite as intimidating as an enfuriated geriatric vegan
18 Sep 2012, 12:45 pm
@Puma-231: I agree. Zane will always be okay but seldom excellent !! No X-factor / game-breaking skills@Jeraldjay-232: Yes I think so too !@Puma-233: I don’t know if he’ll be picked. We missed him a lot as well – he was in great form before the injury
18 Sep 2012, 12:46 pm
@Atreides-236:
18 Sep 2012, 12:46 pm
@rangerman-234: Take it easy on the old fella. One day we too will be put out to pasture by society. We’ll be left barking at strangers in the supermarket, dazed and confused at pedestrian crossings and hiding our own Easter eggs year in and year out.
18 Sep 2012, 12:47 pm
@katman-239:
man if i ever end up like that i hope i am euthanased.
18 Sep 2012, 12:48 pm
@Puma-228: I think Meyers worried Lambie might do something that will show everyone what an idiot hes being. Same goes for Jantjies
18 Sep 2012, 12:49 pm
@UptheGuts-235: I agree with you 100%. I also think circumstances have played a part. He lost a lot of players and had a young team, maybe he has felt they need a lot of structure to help them into test rugby. I think he want’s Goosen at 10 but does not want to rush him (which I agree with) with a quality 10 maybe then he beleives he can play a more posession based game.
18 Sep 2012, 12:49 pm
@katman-239: Leave me on the ice for the polar bears, thanks.
Who the hell wants to hang about for years in nappies, talking weird and annoying your relatives? (or in Skop’s case, everybody…)
18 Sep 2012, 12:50 pm
@rangerman-240: Once you end up like that it’s too late. You’ll genuinely believe you’re still the bee’s knees. Cranky old folk are as oblivious as one can be.
18 Sep 2012, 12:52 pm
@Atreides-243: If we held everyone to their midlife promises and requests, we’d have about twenty old people left.
18 Sep 2012, 12:54 pm
@katman-244: haha, thats scary.
i seriously think snoeky likes to wind people up and he can be lucid when he wants to be.
but he craves attention like a crack addict and so he makes the most outrageous statements and changes like the wind.
its all quite amusing really.
18 Sep 2012, 12:56 pm
@Bok fan-241: For sure. Just can’t understand playing Zane for almost 80min when you have a talent like that on the bench. Mind boggles. Now the youngster can’t be game fit at all.
Meyer could be waiting for a player of his choice and if he plays Lambie and he has a blinder he probably might not be able to drop him. That is the only thing I can think of. He might be waiting for Taute to give him game time in the Oz test who knows. BUT when you don’t have your preferred choice there and the player you have starting is not as good as the one you DO have on the bench, why not play that player on the bench then? Lambie was superb in the England test where we played our best rugby to date.
18 Sep 2012, 13:00 pm
@Atreides-243:
“Who the hell wants to hang about for years in nappies, talking weird”………………………………………………………………………..
.
.
.
What………………………… you would rather be shagged silly by a polar bear?.
.
.
Then watch as it slashed you guts open and ate your inner intestine while you observed the natural wonders of the natural world.
Yeah right..
18 Sep 2012, 13:01 pm
for some reason i cannot scroll past the poll section of the page without a pause.
must be something subliminal going on there.
18 Sep 2012, 13:02 pm
@cane-248: So now you’re a polar bear expert too. Is there anything you don’t know?
18 Sep 2012, 13:02 pm
@cane-248: nah, the bear would just bite your head and crush your skull in seconds like it does with a seal.
it would be over quick.
18 Sep 2012, 13:03 pm
@rangerman-249: I know. Nikita has that pair of eyes pointed straight at you.
18 Sep 2012, 13:07 pm
@cane-248: Figure of speech. You know there are no bears in SA, right?
And besides, how do you know they try to shag people? It’s not a big sheep bud, calm down, the hot flush will vanish after a glass of water
18 Sep 2012, 13:09 pm
@katman-252: happens on the other thread.
i see a massive set of….jaws?
its strange.
18 Sep 2012, 13:11 pm
@Puma-247: The point of introducing them slowly is valid, but only if we fear that we can hurt a player’s confidence – but how do we affect Lambie ngatively if he only needs to catch and kick if asked to slot into the current gameplan?
18 Sep 2012, 13:28 pm
I still don’t get how a coach can have a 42% win record and still believe he is on the right path?
I’m sorry, but this hardheaded bliksem is getting on my nerves….and I suspect everyone elses. If he loses both games in SA then surely he must be shown the door.
18 Sep 2012, 13:28 pm
thoughts go out to the familes and loved ones of the south africans killed this morning in kabul by suicide bombers.
3 pilots, 4 engineers and an admin girl were blown up.
my brother in laws mates and colleagues.
he arrived back in sa on saturday.
18 Sep 2012, 13:31 pm
@rangerman-257: sjoe. close. Sad, saw it on news 24
18 Sep 2012, 13:32 pm
@rangerman-257: F arkin religious nutcases!!!
18 Sep 2012, 13:34 pm
@Skeppie-242: Me personally want Goosen in there PRONTO, but he can take the cautious approach as long as this is the end of the line for Morne. Elton or Lambie to start then as soon as Loftus. If Morne is even on the bench I’ll be one peeved customer. Time for jokes is over. But to me that would be too much of muchness anyway. Jantjies, or Lambie for that matter, hardly boasts much more international experience at 10 than Goosen. Just get the kid in there. He looked very much at home in his first 30 odd minutes at Test level and can only get better.
18 Sep 2012, 13:42 pm
@Puma-247: Meyer told Lambie hes his No.2 choice at fullback so he prefers Zane
18 Sep 2012, 13:43 pm
@stormersboy-258: @Atreides-259: too hectic.
we are all a little shaken and obviously devestated for the families.
my wife also flew for the same company in kabul so ja, its hectic.
gonna take a break chaps, tjorts.
18 Sep 2012, 13:50 pm
@rangerman-257: Sorry to change the subject but 2E1 = not A Mac then. No sister.
18 Sep 2012, 13:52 pm
@UptheGuts-260: I have said a few times we need to manage Goosen slowly but I have no problem us starting him at home for the last two games. I just didn;t want them throwing him to the wolves in Dunedin
18 Sep 2012, 13:54 pm
@Skeppie-263:
What
18 Sep 2012, 13:58 pm
@Dawn-265: It’s in code Dawn
18 Sep 2012, 14:01 pm
@Skeppie-266:
What code is this
CIA
FBI
CBI
NCIS
Scorpions
18 Sep 2012, 14:32 pm
The ABs are on course to break the record of consecutive wins. SA better beat the ABs in 2 weeks time and stop this, because I don’t think it is a very good AB team. I think it’s more of a case of theer not being much resistance. The std of world rugby is pretty low at the momement and NZ are capitalising on this along with all the injuries in the SA and Aus camps.
18 Sep 2012, 14:37 pm
any word if Brussow has / will be added to the team ?
Louw is good but Brussow’s work rate cant be compared Ive never actually seen him miss a tackle .
18 Sep 2012, 14:43 pm
@grant10-184:
So, JDJ will sit and collect splinter for another three weeks at least.
Damn Meyer.
18 Sep 2012, 14:45 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck-256: jurie roux said they won’t be even entertaining firing meyer, they are there to give him all the tools to make a success of his job, not to sack him!
18 Sep 2012, 14:49 pm
@nama1-270: He should start against Wallabies imo Nama….
JDV is no 13 …..HM may as well use Home leg to experiment a bit now….
15 Lambie
14 Jpp
13 JDJ
12 F Steyn
11 habana
10 Goosen
9 Hougaard
8 vermeulen
7 alberts
6 flo
5 A Bekker
4 Etsebeth
3 Jannie
2 A Strauss cappie
1 beast….
bench JDV
KIRCHNER
pIENAAR
j kRUGER
CILLIERS
MARCELLE
18 Sep 2012, 14:53 pm
@grant10-272: jdj vs aac hhmm
18 Sep 2012, 14:55 pm
@katman-252:
Really.
18 Sep 2012, 15:01 pm
@Transformation-273: pEOPLE FORGET WHO HAD BEST DEFENSIVE RECORD IN SUPER RUGBY FOR 2 YEARS IN A ROW….
this with so called ‘ small ‘ players like Aplon and Juan De Jongh….
18 Sep 2012, 15:12 pm
@Nikita-274: I do something wrong?
18 Sep 2012, 15:13 pm
@grant10-272:
Hope so.
5 weeks on the bench can make you real rusty.
If we lose against the Aus next week, I hope HM goes full out with experimentation’s against the AB the following week.
Play Lambie, Jantjies/Goosen, de Jongh, Vermaak (not my favorite but he is there now) and Mvovo in his starting line up and let us see how they go.
We know all there is to know about the so called senior back line players. They really did not impress as a unit so far. The young bucks can’t be much kakker than what they are at the moment.
18 Sep 2012, 15:22 pm
@nama1-277:
We are sadly lacking in ‘ ballas ‘ at the Boks….
we play kak then blame lack of experience ‘
I blame lack of guts….
The serial offenders last few weeks have been JDV, M Steyn , R Pienaar….[ amongst the backs ]…
These so called experienced players are the actual biggest culprits most of the time….
18 Sep 2012, 15:26 pm
@katman-276:
Not at all Katman. Remain focussed.
18 Sep 2012, 15:29 pm
@Nikita-279: I am nothing but focused, Nikita. Eyes front and all that.
18 Sep 2012, 15:30 pm
Jon says, “A modern-day openside must possess the necessary size and skill to be a good lineout option, ” – Jake white had this argument about why he chose Schalk, for his extra lineout potential, as opposed to an out and out fetcher. How many times did we see Schalk take a ball in the lineout for the Boks? This line (scuse the pun) of argument falls flat. I’d argue the same about Louw – he’s never going to take a ball in the lineout. Taller he may be than Brussouw, but he’s still not lineout material.
“ball-carrier,” Louw is bigger but size doesn’t necessarily mean you are going to knock over the man in front of you – that’s the philosophy through which the Boks seem to be doing so badly by in their last few tests. And at test level, more than size is needed. If you ask me, Gio Aplon manages to knock back or over more opposition than many bigger players manage.
“and momentum-stalling defender. …
Above and beyond that, he should have the ability to manipulate the flow of the game through his exploits at the breakdown.” – Brussouw won us the tests against the Lions with his breakdown exploits, he’s an acknowledged master in this field.
Louw can offer more than an out-and-out breakdown specialist like Heinrich Brüssow
“as a ball-carrier,” – isn’t that Albert’s and Vermeulen’s job?
“physical defender,” – Brussow is an incredible defender, tackles with intelligence, knows when to take his man, makes many tackles and rebounds very quickly from a tackle ready to make the next one, , and have you seen the size of his forearms? Knocking the man back in a tackle looks good and makes the crowd feel nice but does it win the ball? The all Blacks don’t mind being knocked back as long as they retain possession. Watched Richie Macaw get smashed backwards by Juan Smith once but Richie was already resigned to a retreat and just made sure the ball came back on the all Black side. And I remember when the only player in the Australian team who could bring down Jonah Lomu was George Gregan.
“and lineout option.” – seeing as how Louw never will be thrown the ball in a lineout, I don’t see how this is relevant?
It’s so disappointing to see HM continue with Jake’s obsession with size at the expense of other attributes, attributes which the Springbok team desperately needs. No good having all your ostrich sized eggs in one basket. Look who scored a try against us last Saturday, the tiny All Black scrummie, look who ran rings around the AB’s in the world cup some years back, the small French winger, Dominici.
18 Sep 2012, 15:31 pm
Lambie absence frustrates Plumtree
——————————————————————————–
18 September 2012, 15:14
Springbok utility back Patrick Lambie’s unavailability for Currie Cup duty this week has left Sharks coach John Plumtree a frustrated man.
Lambie was not among the players released by the Springboks for round seven of domestic action, despite playing just 14 minutes in the past six weeks.
His last full match was in the Super Rugby final on August 4 followed by nine and five minutes in the Rugby Championship against Australia and New Zealand respectively.
“I think Pat Lambie is pretty desperate for some game time,” Plumtree said.
“I think there might be one or two others like him as well.
“So it is a little bit frustrating but those are their (Springbok management) decisions.”
The coastal team face the Lions in a top-of-the-table clash in Johannesburg on Saturday.
The Sharks have been boosted by the return of winger Lwazi Mvovo and hooker Craig Burden, who were both training on the Kings Park outfields on Tuesday.
“They always add value and Craig Burden and Lwazi are two great players,” Plumtree said.
“So it just gives us that little bit of extra depth.”
The Sharks have a woeful recent record in Johannesburg, having not beaten the Gauteng team on their home turf in their last three visits.
They were twice ousted on the Highveld last year, including being trumped in the Currie Cup final, while they also lost in 2010.
“We know how tough the Lions are going to be,” Plumtree said.
“We haven’t won up there for a long time now and they’ve found some really nice form.
“So we’re going to have to be at our best and certainly a lot better than the last few times we visited their home ground. It’s a really big game for us.”
Plumtree felt the key to upsetting the Lions was to negate the effect of Elton Jantjies, the stand-out flyhalf in the competition to date.
“Elton’s got a great skill set,” he said.
“He’s a player that can play deep, he can play flat, he’s kicking game is very accurate, he’s goal-kicking is accurate.
“The Lions always play better when he’s playing very well, so he’s someone we’ll have to make sure doesn’t have a big game against us,” Plumtree said.
“There have also been reports in recent weeks linking the young number 10 with a move to the Sharks next season.”
Plumtree confirmed that talks were ongoing with the Lions, but stopped short of naming Jantjies as one of their targets.
“We have been talking to certain players from the Lions, but I’m not prepared to talk about who they are,” he said.
There are no fresh injury concerns for the Sharks, and they have instead been boosted by the return of Steven Sykes
18 Sep 2012, 15:36 pm
@katman-280:
You are focused alright Katman.
Most deviants are.
(unofficially I agree with you 100% in what you may or may not be alluding to.)
18 Sep 2012, 15:38 pm
@blik-268: That record means little as the current record holders are Lithuania. What a joke!
18 Sep 2012, 15:38 pm
@stapuitdaarvoer-281: spot on….Brussow is a rare gem….and we choose to sommer leave him out a 40 man squad!!
Lekker mal en dom!
18 Sep 2012, 15:40 pm
Cane speaks for himself. I have no idea what he’s referring to. Ever.
18 Sep 2012, 15:40 pm
Tyrone Holmes (Gallo Images)
Related Links
Bok fans slam Div ‘outburst’
Much to ponder for WP coach
Boks freed for Currie Cup duty
Cape Town – Western Province No 8 Jebb Sinclair has escaped further sanction following his red card against the Sharks in Durban last Saturday.
Flank Tyrone Holmes, who was also issued with a red card for punching during WP’s 43-27 defeat, was handed a one-match suspension, and will miss WP’s next Absa Currie Cup clash against Griquas at Newlands on Saturday.
Kick-off is at 15:00.
Thank goodness…..
I thought I may have to watch WP play Skop at openside and Robzim at blindside this coming weekend…..!
18 Sep 2012, 15:41 pm
WP flanker Tyrone Holmes has been suspended for one week for his red card against the Sharks. Jebb Sinclair received no further punishment ~
The penalty that he will get from WP rugby will be mush harser(a team with one less play for last 28 minutes has about no chance in winning)
18 Sep 2012, 15:42 pm
@nama1-277: no man, the aim is to WIN at home, experiment on the end of year tour!
18 Sep 2012, 15:43 pm
@grant10-285: Netso Grant.Absolutely shocking to think that he is not considerd as one of the top fourty players in SA.
18 Sep 2012, 15:47 pm
@wnbb-290: Even more shocking is to think that Jaques Potgieter IS considered to be in the Top 40.
18 Sep 2012, 15:50 pm
@wnbb-290:
Brussow must of seriously upset HM at the one on one meeting…..
Because that was the most illogical call I have seen since the continued persistence with Smit over the premier Hooker on the planet Bismarck…..
Just made no rugby sense……
18 Sep 2012, 15:51 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-291: yes…..and JJ Engelbrecht over JDJ….
Aplon omission for Kirchner…..
seriously farked up calls…..
18 Sep 2012, 15:51 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-291: True.You can add Dean Greyling to that list as well.
18 Sep 2012, 15:58 pm
@grant10-293: @wnbb-294: The thing is….that oxymoronic coach has now ensured ‘strained relations’ are the order of the day with all of these players.
Don’t care what anyone says, when a coach snubs world class players like that….it is very hard to build a solid working relationship moving forward. Yes, its a professional era and players should be able to shoulder the blows and coaches selections….BUT: Meyer fuckedupbigtime with a few fellows. His man management has been amateur and superfuckingKAK. (And it’s still going to come back to bite him on his blueballs…)
18 Sep 2012, 16:03 pm
Wouldnt be surpised if there are rifts forming and cliques developing in the team and in the fringes of Bok selection..
18 Sep 2012, 16:04 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-295:
IMO Meyer was never up to the job and only succeeded at the Bulls because of pure luck and a freakish collection of quality players.
His high school motivation methods only seemed to work on the some of the planks in snor city.
It is clear that the current players (JdV especially) are not a happy bunch. They have probably already seen through his thin facade.
18 Sep 2012, 16:11 pm
HM bettter get it spot on for the home leg….
I am trying my level best not to get too negative……and the F Louw call made me happy….
But this game plan and love affair with M Steyn is making me seriously question HM acumen….
18 Sep 2012, 16:11 pm
@TooMuchRugby-297: He’s plainly been way out of his depth so far, but the true measure of his value will be how he adapts from now on. Will he take onboard the lessons that he’s so bluntly learnt firsthand, will he have the guts to replace his anonymous nothing coaching team, to slowly start peeling off the blue blinkers plastered to his face.
There’s a brave new generation of rugby players waiting in the wings, Heyneke has to be equally courageous.
18 Sep 2012, 16:18 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-296: There has to be…..it would be the natural order of things. Reading between the lines in the interview Lambie gave last week, it was actually quite clear. He said something to the effect of: “I’m working really hard, in fact harder than some who are starting…” or something in that line.
(Wait until you see Morne’s name on the team sheet…..no ways he is going to be dropped for the Loftus test – oh fun times)
@TooMuchRugby-297: If this Meyerfuckerproves me wrong, I am prepared to take every slap coming my way. Funny though, I feel rather safe at the moment
18 Sep 2012, 16:19 pm
Home
Lambie rested for Loftus?
——————————————————————————–
by Brenden Nel 18 September 2012, 15:30
Is Springbok utility back Pat Lambie being groomed for a surprise appearance in the starting line-up at Loftus Versfeld against Australia?
The Bok management released five players to play Currie Cup, but froze all 22 of the players that did duty against New Zealand in Dunedin last weekend.
While the likes of Craig Burden (The Sharks), Frans Malherbe (DHL Western Province), Jacques Potgieter (Vodacom Blue Bulls), Jano Vermaak (Vodacom Blue Bulls) and Lwazi Mvovo (The Sharks) have all been released to their provinces to play in this weekend’s domestic matches, there still lingers a question mark over the fortune of Lambie.
The Bok utility back has had precious little time to play and it would have been a consideration to release him to play for the Sharks this weekend to make sure he is sharp.
But with the Bok management being consistent in their outlook, and not releasing anyone in the match 22, Lambie will enjoy another week’s rest before the team re-assembles on Sunday in Johannesburg to prepare for the Loftus test.
There is a hope of a bigger role in the team’s fortunes, especially after the failings of Morne Steyn at flyhalf.
While Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer is not one to attack players in public, he is known to be disappointed in Steyn’s performance and has spoken about having to consider some “hard choices” ahead of the Loftus test, with Johan Goosen’s elevation to the flyhalf spot the favourite among both fans and media alike.
The Bok management are contemplating changes to the starting line-up and it is likely that some of the players on the bench are being spared action this weekend to ensure they pick up no injuries ahead of next weekend.
A clearer picture will emerge after this weekend’s Currie Cup games when the team is announced by Saru, with some injured players likely to be ready for action once again.
The Bok selectors will have to decide whether to recall Coenie Oosthuizen, who is expected to return to action this weekend for the Toyota Cheetahs, while Heinrich Brussow’s form warrants a relook at his situation as well.
Flyhalf Elton Jantjies continues to perform well at Currie Cup level, and there is an outside chance a big strong runner like Jaco Taute may also receive a call-up.
Winger Bjorn Basson is also fit again and will be looking to regain his spot in the national team, as is Sharks winger JP Pietersen. Banned lock Eben Etzebeth will have served his suspension and is also available for selection.
However, with players like Bismarck du Plessis, Siya Kolisi, Chiliboy Ralepelle, Schalk Burger and Pierre Spies all injured and others like Gurthro Steenkamp and Ryan Kankowski unavailable, there is not much room to move for the Bok management.
Thoughts of Fourie du Preez’s imminent recall from Japan seem to have taken a dent as Du Preez picked up an injury over the weekend playing for his club Suntory and it is uncertain what his status is.
The sixth player that was not part of the match 22 in Dunedin, Pat Cilliers (MTN Golden Lions), is currently injured and not available for selection this weekend.
The squad will convene in Johannesburg on Sunday evening to start preparations for the tests against Australia and New Zealand
18 Sep 2012, 16:24 pm
FDP imminent recall from Japan??
18 Sep 2012, 16:27 pm
Brendan Nel seems to have the inside track for info …
18 Sep 2012, 16:27 pm
@grant10-302: what about JPP’s thumb?
18 Sep 2012, 16:34 pm
@Transformation-304: Not sure my man….would be great to get him back in the mix
18 Sep 2012, 16:36 pm
@Transformation-289:
You think we have a chance with the “seniors” in the back line?
There is a case to be made for blooding the “juniors” against the AB at home if the seniors fail to produce against the Aussies.
Listening to an interview with Meyer at the airport when they arrived yesterday, it is clear that the same team will start next weekend bar maybe Etzebeth coming back.
He was adamant that the game plan was “100% the right one,” “that criticism on Zane is unfair” and that Morne “played well.”
So, if they fail against the Aussies again, why would you want to select them against the All Blacks? Why not give Goosen/Jantjies, JdJ, Lambie, Mvovo and even Jano a starting spot…or at least play Hougaard at SH and put Vermaak on the bench then. We know exactly what we have in Morne, Frans (JdV is captain and won’t be dropped), Kirchner and Pienaar/Hougaard (SH) and Hougaard at wing…and it ain’t much going by their performances over the last five weeks.
I can’t see how that changes will weaken the side that much if at all.
18 Sep 2012, 16:37 pm
@grant10-301: Morne Steyn and sideshow Bob will not be axed – all we can do is hope for them to be booooooed when they run on and off the field and/or whenever they touch the ball. Then only will Heineken get the message
18 Sep 2012, 16:40 pm
@grant10-302: is that genuine? he must be out of his mind if he’s going to pick a player from the Japanese league.
18 Sep 2012, 16:40 pm
Based on the above:
Beast
Strauss
JD Du Plesis
Ysterbeth
Kruger
Flouw
Alberts
Vermeulen
Pienaar
M Steyn
Habana
F Steyn
JDV
JP
Kirchner
Or will we see a miracle, only one bulls player (J Kruger, only bulls player worth his spot) in a bok team at Loftus?
18 Sep 2012, 16:45 pm
“Thoughts of Fourie du Preez’s imminent recall from Japan seem to have taken a dent …”
Now that’s one way of building up the confidence of the scrum halfs in your squad. Just tell them, “If you don’t perform well, I’ll bring back FdP from Japan.”
NOT!!!!
The last good match he had in a Bok jersey was in 2009 already. Time to let go Heyneke Meyer!!!
Jeez, what’s up with this FdP story coming up again and again. Can’t the man just come out and publicly announce his retirement from international rugby.
18 Sep 2012, 16:57 pm
@nama1-310: Meyer has a pathetic denial complex, he still thinks it’s 2008, and that the whole PDV era never happened, he still thinks FDP, Bakkies, Matfield, M Steyn are the pillers of his bok game plan.
Better wake up HM!
18 Sep 2012, 16:58 pm
I think R Pienaar, M Steyn , J Kruger, fLIPPIE and Kirchner will get axed….
18 Sep 2012, 17:00 pm
I reckon Lambie at 15 and Goose at 10 a definite….
18 Sep 2012, 17:06 pm
@grant10-313: That would make very happy.
18 Sep 2012, 17:06 pm
@grant10-313: Who knows what the oke is thinking.
18 Sep 2012, 17:22 pm
@grant10-313:
Meyer said that Zane has done well. Zane fits the game plan and he also thinks that criticism of Zane is unfair.
Zane is a sure starter.
I also think that Morne will start because the game against the Aussies will be at his home ground and in front of his home fans.
18 Sep 2012, 17:35 pm
HM will know the M Steyn gamble will a bridge too far for most fans…..those that are still hoping and praying he will see the light will no longer be in a neutral camp if he persistds with M Steyn….
I also believe he will add Brussow to the squad now that he has seen the value of a genuine opensider….
18 Sep 2012, 17:37 pm
@nama1-316:
Surely Meyer is not totaly stupid Nama?
I think he may be prepared to go more expansive now he believes Boks can beat the 2 powerhouses……
Perhaps I am being too optimistic….
18 Sep 2012, 17:50 pm
What is a better way to unwind from a serious day at work than to irritate the delinquents who love simply to go round and round in circles season after season achieving nothing?
It is after all still September(and may it never end) rugby that I live for no matter the season.
Does ‘arme’ Meyer know that it is a bad idea to invest in Louw for his uncle, Jan Pickard(jnr.), is a case study in fraud – tax evasion of millions to be exact- check the legal case to confirm.
18 Sep 2012, 17:53 pm
@grant10-312:
No way he will axe Kruger and flip.
One of them will partner Estebeth.
18 Sep 2012, 18:09 pm
Ashley Johnson is a very high quality player too. He needs to be considered.
Of all the South African loose forwards, Johnson has the most mongrel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-KxGkBBJ6s
18 Sep 2012, 18:34 pm
IT’S KEEGAN DANIEL FOLKS!!!! DANIEL D-A-N-I-E-L not *DANIEL___S*…
after seeing HG get his captain’s name wrong I cracked. sorry.
on this meyer/selection topic… this is the way I see it:
Meyer: Morné, jy kry nou ‘n kans tot die einde van die away leg. As jy nog steeds kak is dan moet jy maar gaan currie cup speel en tyd met jou laaitie spandeer.
Morné: ja oom.
It sorta kinda is OK in that, if said scenario is anywhere near the truth, Meyer is a man of his word. double edged sword in that his word cost us 2 games!! (once again said scenario etc.)
I personally at this moment in time right now currently would like to see some young guns starting.
18 Sep 2012, 18:55 pm
@nama1-316: IN total agreement.Zane has been doing what’s been asked of him.He is following the game plan right to the T.Morne is also following it,but where he fails is in the goal-kicking department.If he kicked everything on Saturday Meyer would not feel the pressure to replace him.He still might select him rrespective of the outcry from bok supporters to get rid of him.I am more worried with Hougie at 11,because he doesn’t fit into this kick and chase game plan.He can’t execute it well due to physical shortcomings.The return of JPP and Basson will see the continuation of this game plan unfortunately.
18 Sep 2012, 19:30 pm
@gunther-320: Van der Merwe alongside Etzebeth is a physical combo if the former can maintain his level of performance from the weekend.
18 Sep 2012, 19:34 pm
Imagine for a moment that Morne Steyn was still the 90% kicker that he has been virtually his entire career.
Imagine Bryan Habana had not put down a pass with the tryline at his mercy in the fifth minute of Saturday evening’s game.
Imagine Deon Greyling had taken up tiddlywinks instead of rugby.
By my estimation, the Boks left 25+ points on the park on Saturday evening. If 50% of these opportunities had been taken, this weekend past’s clash would have had an entirely different complexion.
Heyneke Meyer has been much maligned on electing to play what is perceived as an anachronistic gameplan. However, can a gameplan that yielded so many opportunities against the number one team in the world trulybe considered out-dated? Or is there a still space for a forward-orientated, kick-and-chase game in the “modern” era?
Place yourself in his shoes for a moment. You realise that the opponents you will play most often are the All Blacks and Wallabies, both teams that play a wide game (the Wallabies at every opportunity, the All Blacks after a few phases and usually off setpiece ball). What’s your plan to engineer a win? Do you follow a gameplan that your opponents devised (i.e. try beat your opponents at their own game)? Or do you develop your own gameplan?
Considering that the wide game is part of the DNA of Union in New Zealand and Australia, I would think it would be obvious that Wallaby and All Black teams are very familiar with defending against opponents putting width on the ball at pace. Understandably, he decided to pursue a different tack.
Against the Wallabies:
-The Wallabies pack (rightly or wrongly) are perceived to be substandard compared to other top tier teams.
-The Wallabies backline in recent year is comprised of relatively small though quick players.
A Bok plan against the Wallabies should be orientated in creating as many attacking setpieces in Wallabies territory as possible and running big ball carriers through the gold backline. A kick and chase game plan would get the Boks into the right areas of the park to look to force a mistake from the Wallabies. However, I would argue that the gameplan should be modified to kicking the ball out and dead against Beale and co. and have Bekker and co. look to disrupt lineouts or Francois Steyn dominate a tackle (forcing a knock-on or penalty).
Against the All Blacks:
- The All Blacks seem vulnerable to rolling mauls, as evidenced on Saturday and against Los Pumas. This argues for kicking close to the touchline, limiting the fielding player’s angle of clearance -which is possible with a quick chase- and setting up attacking lineouts.
- The Boks defence was generally able to contain the All Blacks back three. Consider how much ball was kicked onto the likes of Dagg, Savea and Jane. Then consider that only one try (Dagg’s opening try) was scored from the glut of possession handed to the most potent back three in world rugby. It is also worth noting that around eight shots at goal were manufactured by kicking onto the All Black back three. Had Morne Steyn kicked like an international quality flyhalf, Steve Hansen would have cause for some soul searching come Sunday morning.
I feel that Heyneke Meyer’s thinking in adopting an “outdated” gameplan actually makes sense. As evidenced against the All Blacks on Saturday, it does yield the opportunities to reap dividends on the scoreboard. His failure in my opinion is in his selection:
1. Flyhalf. The gameplan adopted by Heyneke Meyer is orientated on manufacturing shots on goal. For it to succeed, these opportunities need to be converted into points. After seven games to prove his class, I think he can drop Morne with a clear conscience. Selecting a goal-kicker who can’t kick goals makes no sense. If memory serves, Johan Goosen can kick ‘em from 55 metres out, get him off the pine and into the starting line-up. Alternatively, what does Elton Jantjies have to do to gain selection for the Boks? I understand he is an accomplished goal-kicker, and I was very impressed with the way he managed the Lions backline during the Super season. Either of those two would be preferable to a non-performing Morne.
2. Locks and fetchers. The gameplan he is trying to implement centres around creating opportunities from kicks. This means having locks that can steal opposition ball at the lineout (ala Victor Matfield) or a fetcher who can win “holding-on” penalties if the full back gets sacked in possession. Currently, the Boks are playing Bekker who hasn’t delivered a steal for the Boks as yet and Meyer has elected to leave Brussow at home. Francois Louw, in my opinion, made enough of a contribution to warrant a relook at the “no-fetcher” policy. And surely Victor Matfield can be convinced to help out with the technical lineout work?
3. Full back. Zane Kirchener delivers a solid performance at fullback. He’s safe under the high ball and gets fair distance on his clearances. However, he is prone to placing nothing up-and-unders that don’t achieve the goals of the gameplan. I think Kirchener either needs to be coached into adding a line-kick to his repertoire or a new fullback needs to be found. I enjoy Lambie’s running instincts, and I think he could grow into a great fullback for the Republic…but he’s going to need a lot more than 5-10 minutes in a lost game to grow his ability.
I liked Kirchener’s option for a drop-goal in the match. Popping over the odd three points from a failed clearance makes opposing players less adventurous in their approach to clearing, going for a sure out rather than distance. Meyer could think about moving Francois Steyn to 15, Jean de Villiers to 12 and JP Pietersen to 13. This setup would probably compliment the gameplan better than the current setup.
From a southern hemisphere point of view, there can be few arguments that the gameplan Heyneke Meyer is looking to adopt is not particularly attractive. However, the lack of aesthetic appeal should not blinker our appreciation of its effectiveness and feasibility as a counter to the dominance of the All Black style of playing the game.
18 Sep 2012, 19:40 pm
flo to play back up to brussow …. brussow can single handedly win a game for you also works as a better mix with the rest of loose trio we’ve got good 7 and 8′s
18 Sep 2012, 20:04 pm
@bago7-325:
It’s not acceptable to base you’re accumulation of points on another teams mistakes.
18 Sep 2012, 21:33 pm
@ 325 bago7
very good post there.. valid points..and once again it boils down to “execution over innovation”.
19 Sep 2012, 04:05 am
BRUSSOW is 100 times better than Louw. Seriously these kind of articles by idiot rugby journalists make me despair.
JON CARDINELLI should be fired from Keos
19 Sep 2012, 04:56 am
@Boksarenumber1-329: Yes, but you are also forgetting what criteria Meyer uses for selection. Its physical attributes first, skill second. As Flow is tall, he can be a lineout option, therefore he fits the gameplan, Brusow is short, he does not, even though Brussow is an amazing fetcher. Completely stupid yes, but that is the Meyer way……
19 Sep 2012, 14:04 pm
@bago7-325: Awesome post and I agree 100% about the “what ifs” and the 25 points left out there!
HM and JdV speak of “inexperience” but it was the experienced players who left the Boks down (apart form Greyling’s unbelievable effort)! Morne, Habana, Kirchner botched tries and kicks.
Frans took 2 Loooong attempts, and one just went under. Those are always 50-50s and should be seen as a bonus. Morne’s kicks are bread and butter and that is his job
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.