PdV’s Boks were as white as Meyer’s
18 Sep 2012
Peter de Villiers, whose last Bok XV had just three players of colour, says the current Bok team, which also has three, is too white.
Speaking to Ballz Radio on Monday, De Villiers lashed out at Heyneke Meyer’s apparent lack of interest in selecting players of colour.
‘It’s just the little things that bother me,’ said De Villiers. ‘We need to know in what country we do live. And at this moment we are turning a lot of black people against ourselves by making the team white and nobody will talk about these things but I just have to. And that is what … actually we’re breaking up our country again. We’re turning all the black support against the Springboks. Wherever I go I hear people talking negative about the Springboks.’
Ironically, though, Meyer selected three players of colour for the Test against the All Blacks in Dunedin (Beast Mtawarira, Bryan Habana and Zane Kirchner), the same number that De Villiers selected for the 2011 World Cup quarter-final against the Wallabies (Gurthro Steenkamp, Habana, and JP Pietsersen).
De Villiers told Ballz Radio that Gio Aplon, Juan de Jongh and Chiliboy Ralepelle were black players he feels could make a difference, yet Aplon started just three Tests in 2011 (one of which was against Namibia at the World Cup), De Jongh two (he came off the bench twice at the World Cup against Fiji and Namibia), and Ralepelle none (all three of his appearances last year were off the bench, including one against Namibia at the World Cup). In the four years that De Villiers was coach, Ralepelle started just two Tests at hooker, in the dead rubber against the British & Irish Lions at Ellis Park in 2009 and against Italy in Witbank in 2010.
The fact is that De Villiers’s transformation record as Bok coach is no better than Meyer’s.
111 Comments
18 Sep 2012, 08:24 am
Just when I was starting to feel a little nostalgia for Puff the tragic Dragon, he comes with this B.S.
Sigh.
18 Sep 2012, 08:28 am
We must remember that PDV was a token, the team was run and selected by Smit and Matfield. He was window dressing while the whites stll ran the team.
Remember how, during apartheid, the white population were always warned about the “swart gevaar.” Today that still rings true, at least now we know the “swart gevaar”is the All Blacks rugby team.
18 Sep 2012, 08:29 am
Colour is the only reason why Zane is still in the team!
18 Sep 2012, 08:41 am
One of our POC is a quota too: Zane Kirtchner. What a joke when we have a perfectly good POC like Aplon who should be starting at fullback for the Bok, not to mention a host of other better white fullbacks. We could also put in another POC Jantjies who would do a 300 % better job than Stain. Earlier in the season we had Ashley Johnson who could have come in to replace Spies, another genuine improvement.
18 Sep 2012, 08:43 am
@blackman-2: The All Blacks are currently average- if we didnt have a verkrampt palooka coaching the Boks we would have easily won our last encounter.
18 Sep 2012, 08:45 am
In fairness to HM alot of the potential black players have picked up injuries but at the same time theres no doubt there were alot more established boks available in PDV time John Smit, Burger,Matfield,Bakkies etc. Its a dead cert that if fit the likes of Kolisi , Ralepele etc. would have been given more of an opportunity had he been coach now than they will be under HM.
18 Sep 2012, 08:55 am
Hypocrisy rules OK.
18 Sep 2012, 08:55 am
@Spiesisworthless1-5:
Of course the AB’s are average.
They only won by 10 points.
18 Sep 2012, 09:01 am
@Brads-8: By their standards this is one of the weaker AB sides. They’ve lost key men, superstars like Kaino and Thorn and they have an ordinary coach like Foster destabilizing them and Hansen still has much to prove. Messam never been up for it against the Boks, Piri Wheepu was starting over the weekend, McCaw cant keep going at his current rate forever… They’re precariously placed at the moment and the Boks have certainly faced up to far tougher AB sides and won.
18 Sep 2012, 09:12 am
Slowly, slowly now. This article comes from the (racist?) guys who hounded Ricky January out of South African rugby ostensibly because he was overweight. Very different from the way the All Blacks treated a really overweight Piri Weepu.
18 Sep 2012, 09:14 am
PDV brought through many players of colour. Heyneke is not doing that at all. Heyneke had a chance to select Chiliboy and Siya amongst others but he refused to. Now when they are injured he mentions that he would of picked them. Nonsense Heyneke!
18 Sep 2012, 09:15 am
@Spiesisworthless1-9:
Piri Weepu is yesterdays man. He only got the starting spot because Smith was being punished for breaking a curfew.
The AB’s mid field combination is not working. Time to drop Nonu for a spell. He always seems to bounce back after getting a wake up call.
Julian Savea is NOT the next Jonah. I have yet to see him do anything in his tests to date that warrants the comparison. His one outstanding test was against an ordinary Irish team. since then he has done nothing.
Messam has been outstanding, so I disagree with you there.
McCaw has another 3 years in him, wait and see. In your eyes he will cheat his way to glory, in mine he walks on water.
18 Sep 2012, 09:26 am
Here is have an example of the pot calling the kettle black (or not black enough)
LOL at Divvy.
18 Sep 2012, 09:26 am
@Spiesisworthless1-4:
Actually, I don’t think Zane is a quota choice, I believe HM genuinely rates him (he suits da game plan). Just as his non-selection of Aplon & De Jong & Jantjies are because he doesn’t particularly rate them (they don’t suit da game plan). It has nothing to do with colour, just the coach’s rating of the players in question.
Now we can argue (convincingly) that the coach should be publicly flogged for his inability to select the correct players… but we’ve been doing that for days, now.
18 Sep 2012, 09:31 am
And the ironic thing is that Divvy just had to make an appearance on that racist radio blog with that convicted racist who uses the K word socially. Oi Divvy you are doff.
18 Sep 2012, 09:40 am
look, nothing new here….we all knew long ago that Twakkie is a nutjob.
nice bloke, but a nutjob.
18 Sep 2012, 09:58 am
PdV must just shut up! go develop some kids at UWC and make a contribution instead of talking kak on useless internet stations with racist radio jocks.
18 Sep 2012, 10:07 am
Well, if you count the coach then pre-Meyer we were 25% non-white. Not that I even care – I try not to see race all the time.
18 Sep 2012, 10:27 am
Who would lead the Haka if Piri wasn’t selected?
18 Sep 2012, 10:28 am
PDV gunning to coach the SA equivalent of NZ Maori rugby team.
You heard it here first.
18 Sep 2012, 10:44 am
@Transformation-17: Hectic mate
18 Sep 2012, 10:46 am
I think Divvy was counting himself as one.
18 Sep 2012, 10:46 am
ag pdv go f u k yourself you little twerp.
you have always been hung up on race pellie and its BORING.
18 Sep 2012, 10:47 am
@scrumfan-19: The guy from the Village People with the big moustache.
18 Sep 2012, 10:48 am
@Redox(Original)-6: thats complete BS and i’ve been raising this for some time here.
PdV has just pointed out what my black colleagues have been saying, HM doesn’t put any faith in bringing through POC that he hasnt worked with.
When he had the opportunity he didnt play Kolisi but chose Potgieter!
When he had a chance to cap Jantjies he left him on the bench against England but brought Goosen on straight back from injury.
He substituted Beast for Greyling after a good performance…we know how that worked out
i cant really defend him and i can feel the division being caused by HM’s decisions
18 Sep 2012, 10:53 am
@papaown-25: so you and your black colleagues have been standing around agitating for black advancement.
whatta surprise.
maybe you can form your own broeder movement and call it the mfo’clan?
seriously, get over it, aplon is sh i t sh it sh it at the moment and so is zane, another black player. keegan was dropped for potgieter too.
siya is injured but will get his shot. chili is injured too.
elton has as much claim (actually less) as lambie and guess what, neither is being selected.
the player i would currently say has some claim is that merc mapoo.
its coz i is bleck is just such a pathetic cry, really.
make like biko bud, free yourself first.
18 Sep 2012, 10:54 am
@Spiesisworthless1-4: If I were picking I would prefer Kirchner to Aplon at full-back. While a superior counter-attacker the latter is an average defender, doesn’t have great length on his kick and is unreliable under the high ball.
18 Sep 2012, 10:58 am
@katman-24: When you’re an online militant, you make sweeping statements about transformation. When it’s your own coaching c*ck on the block, you pick a team you believe in.
Why do you think Divvy didn’t afford all those precociously talented black players their opportunities? Why did he also only start with an average of 3 black or coloured players per game?
18 Sep 2012, 11:03 am
@katman-28: Meant for @papaown-25: of course.
18 Sep 2012, 11:12 am
@papaown-25: ok having re read your post maybe i am jumping the gun a bit.
apologies.
sure, he may not have faith in black players he hasnt worked with but it seems he doesnt have faith in white players he hasnt worked with either like keegan and lambie.
so i think race is not a factor.
there, much more balanced from the ranger.
18 Sep 2012, 11:16 am
Iv neva actually seen anyone run through or around Aplon,so you will rather have a guy who kicks
18 Sep 2012, 11:24 am
Personally I think the message Divvy is actually trying to convey, is that Jantjies, Aplon, de Jongh and Kolisi should be and always be, part of Meyer’s plans. Most people have been saying this in any event.
Divvy lives and works in CT, so the people he is speaking to, would be people such as I (those have been whinging about Meyer and his treatment of certain players since he announced his 1st squad) Yes, those of us (of all races) who believe Jantjies, Aplon, Kolisi and de Jongh have been given a raw deal.
I don’t think it’s primarily because of their colour, but because Meyer is a bit of a twat fullstop, and his selections have been absolutelyfuckingbizarre at times.
In the absence of Heyneke Meyer making any fuckingsense at all when justifying his selections (and looking doffasfuck when he does try), there is plenty of room for accusations and allegations of the sort P Divvy is making.
Until Heyneke starts talking sense, stops lying on public platforms and stops messing with players – there is going to be little way of proving what some are starting to say does NOT have a glimmer of truth in it somewhere.
See, Meyer must just start talking in a way that doesn’t leave him open to all this (and it would help if his treatment of players improved full stop). But he seems a little thick.
18 Sep 2012, 11:29 am
@AssassinWP-31: well then you neva watched rugby bud.
aplon is a gutsy talented awesome player that is the wrong side of 28 and will neva be a bok regular imo.
and if aplon is the poc that is being shafted then what about zane who aplon would presumably replace?
or would it be mvovo, jpp or abs?
anyways, its a stupid argument about a statement by a coach who lost all the goodwill i had for him.
bygones.
18 Sep 2012, 11:31 am
“In the absence of Heyneke Meyer making any fuckingsense at all when justifying his selections (and looking doffasfuck when he does try), there is plenty of room for accusations and allegations of the sort P Divvy is making.”
no, sorry.
there is not.
its bs and he is the one being divisive.
18 Sep 2012, 11:48 am
@rangerman-34: Of course there is room for all sorts of interpretation and THERE WILL BE all sorts of interpretation until Meyer convinces people otherwise. I repeat – we live in the beautiful and diverse SA, where everything is open to interpretation unless solid and believable alternatives are given.
Each one of us is guilty of doing this in this country. Woolworths hate white people, Heyneke Meyer hates black people, Skoppie hates everyone etc etc etc.
18 Sep 2012, 11:51 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-35: no, sorry its not that simple.
what is the quantitative basis for meyer to be accused of bias against black players?
kolisi?
puhleease. keegan had just as much claim.
i want to see the actual logic behind this claim, seriously.
18 Sep 2012, 12:08 pm
@rangerman-36: There doesn’t have to be logic mate. There rarely is, in ANYTHING we South Africans offer up in terms of ‘victim mindset’. Unless our victim rants are blown out of the park with facts and truth – they remain logical as all hell in the minds of those making the victim claims (and then not always).
The background P Divvy is making a statement like this, is a helluva lot different to the background setting for other folks claims that Meyer doesn’t like English speaking players…..
His justification for dropping Keegan and not using Lambie didn’t sit well with many – and yes, claims have been made that Meyer doesn’t like English folk.
His justification for messing around with Siya, then saying he would have played him etc – his justification for not using Elton off the bench etc didn’t sit well with others, and claims have been made that Meyer doesn’t select black folk.
His justification for selecting Morne Steyn and Potgieter, didn’t sit well with anyone who isn’t from Pretoria, and claims have been made that Meyer doesn’t like or select deserving players from other provinces.
There will never be any quantitive basis for ANY of the above accusations….but that doesn’t stop us believing them. This is SA. The only way to stop folk furthering these beliefs, is for Meyer to prove otherwise.
18 Sep 2012, 12:18 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-37: ah, so he must buckle to every dissafected wannabe coach or interest group out there?
why bother, its a load of hogwash ruckles sorry.
18 Sep 2012, 12:48 pm
@rangerman-38: Nope. He must explain himself a little better, or expect more discontent from all corners. You Natalians have it in for him now, and how he has abused Lambie and Daniel etc…..and some of you have been very committed in voicing your discontent. It might not make sense to many others – but it makes sense to YOU. Ditto for what Divvy is saying…….
Meyer can’t communicate full stop, and when he does, he talks kak, which makes him a target, for ALL groups – so we can agree to disagree, but what Divvy is doing, is exactly the same as what other groups are doing (Natalians, English speakers, Capetonians – all whinging about our OWN causes…)
Divvy saying Meyer hasn’t selected enough players of colour, is the same as HG saying Meyer hasn’t selected enough Sharks. The only difference is HG ain’t famous enough to be interviewed on Ballz radio.
Background of those speaking and interpretation of what Meyer is doing and saying is causing ALL of these 1+1 = 3′s. Simple.
18 Sep 2012, 12:51 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-39: nah, natalians arent anti meyer.
we are patiently awaiting the revelation.
18 Sep 2012, 12:54 pm
Fact of the matter is that HM is alienating a lot of Bok supporters of color who made the paradigm shift after the appointment of PdV.
Whether anybody wants to acknowledge that, does not really matter. It is happening and it is truly sad actually.
18 Sep 2012, 12:54 pm
@rangerman-38:
Jeez dood, can you not see that Meyer is not helping himself out of bias perception (read Bulls lover, English and black players hater) from SA supporters with his shocking selections? Many people who truly understand and follow rugby don’t believe he is bias but perhaps…at best misguided or plain thick! For the rest of the blood baying SA public he is starting to look like the kind of person BEE was invented for! (ie. Without a legal push will never stray from that laager mentality). The public (not just from SA) hardly ever deal in quantitative analysis. What world are you living in?
18 Sep 2012, 12:55 pm
@rangerman-40:
You could have fooled me.
18 Sep 2012, 12:56 pm
@nama1-41: but what is the basis for the alienation nama?
seriously, pleas explain because i am ill equipped to understand this phenomenon truly.
18 Sep 2012, 12:59 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-43: hehehe, dont confuse the after match passion with the clear light of day thinking.
18 Sep 2012, 13:07 pm
@nama1-41: @rangerman-44: Whether anyone can explain it or not is actually irrelevant. What is relevant, is that it is happening in the 1st place.
It’s sad……
And now Mvovo has been chucked out as well…….for having ONE bad game when his confidence was low due to him having to make way for an out of form scrumhalf? Sorry Rangerman – Meyer’s explanation for this move (as an example) harms his cause even more. Mvovo gone, Morne Steyn still rocking it up? http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/Meyer-keeps-faith-in-Steyn-20120917 That is what I have been saying – he is fuckingitupallbyhimself. Not the best way to keep the faith is it? Anyhow – thats just my opinion.
No more Meyer bashing, I have
18 Sep 2012, 13:13 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-46: mvovo had a shocker though and funnily enough dean greyling must be sent to the wilderness (he must, no, HE MUST) and that is ok because he isnt a black player.
no ruckles, i want to hear the reasons black folk are apparently turning against meyer because of his selections.
i dont want fuzzy logic, i want actual reasons otherwise i will have to assume its a biased and race based assumption worse than what meyer is being accused of.
18 Sep 2012, 13:17 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-46: Mvovo is not a test quality winger, he has suspect defence and while he is a good finisher he does not get through a lot of work. JPP, Habana, Aplon and Hougaard are all ahead of him in the pecking order.
18 Sep 2012, 13:23 pm
@rangerman-44:
Won’t help much. You made up your mind that it is bullshit and that’s what it will be in your eyes.
In any case, in our fucked up society rather than facts play a big role in determining how we react to certain issues. Your reaction to this article re your feeling for PdV is a case in point.
You can’t deny that there was a (legitimate?) perception that Meyer prefered Bulls players when he announced his first squad. Bulls supporters dispute that vehemently. Shark supporters, looked past it as their team also provided a host of players for the squad. The fact that three of the Stormer players who were ignored, all in good form, happened to be POC (Aplon, Kolisi, JdJ) while white players from the Bulls, coming from injuries or with little game time (Potgieter, JJ Engelbrecht, Jano Vermaak) were selected, triggered some warning signs already.
When you couple that with the treatment handed out to Jantjies (not used against England despite Morne’s poor showing and then summarily dropped out of the squad for a player who just returned from a long injury lay-off) and the treatment of JdJ (taken on a three week tour not used off the bench despite poor play by the back line this), one can understand their frustration with Meyer.
18 Sep 2012, 13:28 pm
@nama1-49:
“in our fucked upassumptions society rather than facts”
18 Sep 2012, 13:31 pm
@rangerman-47: @Skeppie-48: Mvovo deserved to be dropped yes (and his defence has always been woeful). But that is not the point I am making…. Put yourself for one second into the shoes of another and see how NOT dropping Steyn but dropping Mvovo, not selecting Kolisi from the getgo etc etc might look to you. (And don’t tell me that’s stupid….because 200 000 whites stopped shopping at Woolies because of what they ‘perceived’ to be the truth, funnily enough, also about numbers
Now personally I found the ‘Woolies is racist’ campaign to be ridiculous, and I find claims that Meyer is a racist just as ridiculous – my 1st post said he was thick, not racist. (go back and read it Ranger)
BUT: just because I don’t buy into either perception, doesn’t mean the perception isn’t there, and that it isn’t valid in the eyes of those perceiving it.
And therein lies Meyer’s problem. Funny though; the perception that P Divvy was a useless quota coach was welcomed…and now your words might ring a little truer (if I change the name)”i want actual reasons otherwise i will have to assume its a biased and race based assumption worse than what P Divvy is being accused of.”
Just saying perceptions work both ways. They are not unique to one culture, race, language or religious group.
18 Sep 2012, 13:31 pm
@nama1-50:
Let me try again:
“in our fucked up society assumptionsrather than facts”
18 Sep 2012, 13:32 pm
@nama1-49: I think you have put it better than my 8 posts have. I waffled too much I reckon. But that’s exactly what I was trying to say.
18 Sep 2012, 13:38 pm
@Big Hit-27: Nothing wrong with Kirchner.He has execured Meyer’s plan well.Lambie doesn’t fill me with confidence,as proven by his inept performances at super level playing 15.
18 Sep 2012, 13:41 pm
@nama1-49: no buddy, dont try and deflect an honest question by saying i have made up my mind already.
thats cowardly.
aplon is not in great form and would have presumably replace another POC (mvovo or habs or zane take your pic).
keegan and kolisi are in the same boat.
jdj? seriously? who would you have him replace? fransi or jdv?
what has jano got to do with anything?
no bud, it seems to me as though its a provincial gripe dressed up as a racial one imo.
as for jantjies where you broke the provincial shining mould, he and pat have been treated atrociously i agree, one white one black but pdv used jantjies how many times?
and lambie has been given the same treatment.
18 Sep 2012, 13:42 pm
Simon, you are being deliberately facetious and plain acting dof.
PDiv never compared his “transformation record” to HMs.
I didnt hear him say its HM’s fault the team is too white or anything. He always spoke of “we” missing the chance to build on the good spirit from RWC 2007.
Lets not forget that he did blood a lot of non-white players (Im not sure if Aplon and De Jongh would call themselves “black” but who knows).
Aplon, De Jongh, Mvovo, Beast, Mujati, Maku, Jantjies, and so on.
He also wanted other players to be in his squad (Conrad Jantjes and Earl Rose as 2 egs) that either lost form or for other reasons didnt make it.
But – and if youve read PDiv’s book you will know his views – transformation is not about just colour and numbers on the field.
But it is not a good example when (as many other Muppits commented) a player like Mvovo gets dropped for not doing much wrong, while 1. Morne gets 7 Tests to struggle in and 2. For a player struggling at 9 (hougaard) to be moved to the wing.
Also – while a player STRUGGLING like Morne is, gets to play an entire Test, while Elton is sitting on the bench (a capable player in all respects, regardless of his skin colour).
Another eg. Goosen leapfrogs the pecking order over Elton to now be #1 flyhalf. Elton should be given 7 Tests at LEAST to have a go.
I am not a big fan of quotas and focussing on colour at all, but we need to be fair and realistic in SA.
18 Sep 2012, 13:43 pm
The love affair with Hougie by some on here is also a bit perplexing as he doesn’t fit into Meyer’s game plan playing at 11.His chase on the high ball is non-existent and surely Meyer can see this and will give him the boot once JP and Basson are available again.
18 Sep 2012, 13:44 pm
Juan De Jongh dropped for JJ Engelbrecht originally ???? That was another clanger by HM…..
18 Sep 2012, 13:47 pm
@nama1-41:
Well, sorry, but to me that is a very racist mindset given the gist of the article which is that Meyer has done exactly what twakkie did. no worse-no better.
but you don’t get alienated when Twakkie selects only 3?
errrm yes.
18 Sep 2012, 13:48 pm
@grant10-58: Not replacing Morne with Elton whilst he was getting booed by all and sundry in PE was also a clanger.
18 Sep 2012, 13:53 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-59: Ja, when a cullert selects only 3 POC’s it’s because he has an astute rugby brain. When a d.utchy does it, it’s because he’s a neo-nazi.
18 Sep 2012, 13:53 pm
@rangerman-55: JDJ over Jean any day!
BUT, I would rather have JPP at 13 over anyone based on his recent form (remember Heyneke talking about form being rewarded?).
Habana scored an amazing try, but its the first one for AGES! How can we continuously play a winger that is “good” and “ok” and “solid” for 10 Tests and then scores 1 try? When we have so many young potential game-breakers in that position in SA?
Hougaard shouldve replaced Habana, and Mvovo shouldve kept his place I feel.
Before last Saturday many more people might’ve felt the same way, but now Habana has scored an amazing try (and I loved it and celebrated as much as anyone) and he is “safe” again.
Its amazing the effect Habana has on Bok supporters, he is accomodated and given a lot more leeway than most other players.
18 Sep 2012, 13:54 pm
The bigest mistake PDV made was giving rugby back to the white man. if there is one thing they hate is if coloured people are better than them in rugby.
If this was not SA, this could’ve been the Bok team – world beaters.
Aplon
Habana
JDJ
Waylon
Mvovo
Jantjies
Hougaard
Ashley
Kolisi
Brussouw
Lobberts
Etsebet
Beast
Chilliboy
Guthro.
18 Sep 2012, 13:54 pm
@wnbb-60: yes…
and for my sins I was there in the stands….frustrated as can be!
18 Sep 2012, 13:56 pm
@bokfan1-62: Because he can pull stuff like that out of nowhere….very few players can do that
18 Sep 2012, 13:57 pm
@rangerman-55:
As I said, you made up your mind and nothing would change it.
If you read properly, you would’ve seen that I said SQUAD as in: “You can’t deny that there was a (legitimate?) perception that Meyer prefered Bulls players when he announced his first squad.”
I guess you agree then that Potgieter, JJE should’ve been in the 40 men squad ahead of the Stormers players I mentioned.
In any case, people don’t need your permission or approval, or anybody’s for that matter, to have a certain perception of Meyer and act upon it. You also don’t have to agree with it but it still does not mean that they are wrong or that you are right. At the end of it all the best you can do is to respect whatever decision they make.
18 Sep 2012, 13:57 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-51: “woeful”??? Really??? Less or more woeful than someone like Morne, and even JdV (in the last Test)?
18 Sep 2012, 13:59 pm
@skop-63: Fudge Mabeta in plek van Etsebet.
Ek sal voorstel:
JDJ op 12
JPP op 13
En daar moet plek wees vir Mapoe in daai span…
18 Sep 2012, 13:59 pm
@wnbb-54: Lambie a better fullback than Kirtchner any day of the week. Niknaks just kicks the ball a bit further but inferior in every other way.
18 Sep 2012, 13:59 pm
@Atreides-65: For sure – but ONCE every 10 Tests?
18 Sep 2012, 13:59 pm
@skop-63: Skop that chip on your shoulder must really get you down….brush it off and put a smile on your dial my man
18 Sep 2012, 14:00 pm
@bokfan1-62: You are seriously deluded,mate.Habana is the best winger in SA at the moment.It’s not just about scoring great tries.His workrate has been absolute outstanding,pilfering balls at the breakdown and great defender on top of it.
18 Sep 2012, 14:02 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-69: Lambie has done nothing to deserve that 15 jersey,end of story.
18 Sep 2012, 14:02 pm
@bokfan1-68:
Fudge in place of Eben???????
18 Sep 2012, 14:02 pm
@Skeppie-71: That cant be the real Skop surely. I actually rate Skop/Fitzellas rugby knowledge.
18 Sep 2012, 14:02 pm
@Skeppie-71:
Why do you speak in code
18 Sep 2012, 14:03 pm
That aint skop
18 Sep 2012, 14:04 pm
Fudge and Lobberts. Awesome.
18 Sep 2012, 14:04 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-59:
That’s just simplifying things when you say both selected only 4 POC.
There is more to it than that.
Oh yes, the point I make is not based on what is written in this article. It comes from listening and talking to people who I watched rugby with every weekend. There are of course also those who defend him.
18 Sep 2012, 14:04 pm
@wnbb-73: Except tear it up against England in the second test, the only time the backs looked half decent under Meyer. Kirtchner is just as one-dimensional as Steyn. Offers nothing on attack, and nothing on defense for that matter going on last weekends showing.
18 Sep 2012, 14:04 pm
@wnbb-72: Jaaa everyone talks about “everything else” he does – chases kicks, turnovers etc. and I agree he is very good at that.
But what is a winger’s primary job? That is my point.
If a fly-half cant kick, how long will he last?
if a prop can scrum?
if a lock cant jump?
but somehow, Habana is exempt because he is “good on defence” and “chases well”?
Anyway, I didnt mean to turn it into a debate about Habana
18 Sep 2012, 14:05 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-75: Huh?
18 Sep 2012, 14:06 pm
@bokfan1-67: Similar to. Which is the point I am making with regard to the perceptions Meyer is creating. Mvovo was dropped, deservedly. Steyn gets to fuckupalloveragain week in and out, when he should have been dropped way before a fellow like Mvovo. (If you read my post way back – you will see I felt Mvovo was treated unfairly by Meyer. But that doesn’t change my opinion that I have always found him to be lacking on ‘D’)
18 Sep 2012, 14:06 pm
@Dawn-74: I thought Skop is making a non-white/coloured Bok team, so I was playing along…
Fudge is/was awesome… but probably not Bok level
18 Sep 2012, 14:06 pm
@Dawn-76: Ranger is someone I went to school with, wouldn’t want to be giving his ID away now…apparently on this site that is tantamount to treason!
18 Sep 2012, 14:07 pm
@Skeppie-82: THe real Skop is posting as Fitzella, this guys just an imposter.
18 Sep 2012, 14:07 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-83: Sorry man – I shouldve read your posts properly
I agree with your point completely and it is the same one I was making in my posts
18 Sep 2012, 14:08 pm
@bokfan1-81: …and he scores brilliant tries as well.
18 Sep 2012, 14:08 pm
@rangerman-55: PDV focuses on Jantjies, because all those in Natal are focusing on Lambie. You see? It’s about perceptions, I told you this. And Meyer the fuckkingoxymoron is the only fool who can correct any of this.
18 Sep 2012, 14:10 pm
Skop never blogged as “Skop.”
He blogged as SKOPSKIET.
18 Sep 2012, 14:10 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-86: Oh…well I am neither of them
18 Sep 2012, 14:10 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-83: Don’t waste your energy.He is only interested in two-step wingers instead of ones that can defend as well.
18 Sep 2012, 14:11 pm
@Skeppie-91: I know… Errrr. Nevermind, break-down in communication
18 Sep 2012, 14:15 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-93: No sweat, just don;t confuse me with Fitz1ella…..I would hate to be known as a bigot with a chip on my shoulder.
18 Sep 2012, 14:17 pm
@Skeppie-85:
I know.
I also know who he is.
Now why you speaking in code.
18 Sep 2012, 14:19 pm
@rangerman-55:
“but pdv used jantjies how many times?”
Now that’s a cop out if ever there was one.
Jantjies break through year was in 2010. In 2011 he did not play well in the S14 and was even dropped from the Lions team by Mitchell.
Unlike Meyer, who still selects Morne now despite his poor form, PdV opted not to select Jantjies because of his poor form in 2011 in the S14. Also, it was a RWC year. Not really the time to blood a young FH, if you know what I mean.
Do you now blame him for that?
18 Sep 2012, 14:21 pm
@Skeppie-94:
He didn’t confuse you with anyone
He was explaining it to you
18 Sep 2012, 14:26 pm
@Dawn-97: Terribly sorry Dawn…..I doff my hat.
18 Sep 2012, 14:26 pm
@skop-63:
Swop Hougaard for Heini Adams and we’re all set.
Two white quotas and all.
18 Sep 2012, 14:29 pm
@nama1-99: That’s really racist…you have no indians in that side.
18 Sep 2012, 14:30 pm
@Dawn-95: HAHAHA is this the old “I bet you can’t make coffee in 3 mins” trick? How do you know who he is Dawn?
18 Sep 2012, 14:31 pm
@Skeppie-100: And way too many chiefs.
18 Sep 2012, 14:34 pm
@nama1-96: Who was the form Super Rugby flyhalf of 2011…?
Yet he was hardly picked either other than a few minutes on field in the snow against Scotland?
Apparently he was a better 15 than flyhalf… according to Matfield and the other Morne Steyn cheerleaders…
So, Nama, its not always about pigmentation… Maybe its about the way you speak… Lambie, a good Michaelhouse boy, could be a little too posh of a soutie for some of the inferiority complex sensitivities of some of the “traditional power” Boks…
18 Sep 2012, 14:43 pm
@Skeppie-101:
We go back a ways
18 Sep 2012, 14:46 pm
@Dawn-104: Methinks you have the big offshore fishing rod out Dawn, nice try.
18 Sep 2012, 14:53 pm
@Skeppie-100:
true
@Heavens Game-103:
I think we’ve covered that already, HG.
It could be any of pigmentation, Language group or the franchise for which you play/not play.
So, when a favorite of mr X is not selected and it is this perception that it is because of the player’s color and at another time, one of your favorites (Keegan) is not selected and it is your perception is that it is about him being English and not Afrikaans, why are you right and mr X is wrong?
18 Sep 2012, 18:30 pm
@skop-63: How about this team as world beaters.
15: Andre Joubert
14: James Small
13: Japie Mulder
12: Hennie le Roux
11: Chester Williams
10: Joel Stransky
9: Joost van der Westhuizen
8: Mark Andrews
7: Reuben Kruger
6: Francois Pienaar
5: Hannes Strydom
4: Kobus Wiese
3: Balie Swart
2: Chris Rossouw
1: Os du Randt
Only one quota.
18 Sep 2012, 19:11 pm
Fact is that no bok has had enough players of colour to choose from. Most of them are on the wing or outside centre… In the forwards, they’re mostly loose forwards, hookers or loosehead props.
In last week’s CC team sheets the were only 18 players of colour out of 132, only 11 starters…
In next year’s super 15 the following players will feature regularly in match 22′s:
Bulls:
Kirchner, Basson, Ralepelle
Cheetahs:
Rhule, Raubenheimer
Kings:
????
Sharks:
JP Pietersen, Mvovo, Beast
Stormers:
Aplon, Habana, De Jongh, Kolisi, Jantjies? (If the rumours are true)
The problem is that not enough black players are coming through the bok feeder system. The EP Kings who will supposedly address the problem only have two black players in the starting xv for this weekend’s game… Where the hell is this pool of black players the coach is supposed to choose from?
18 Sep 2012, 21:22 pm
Nama1 = Peter De Villiers
Both are fixated with the wit oke.
18 Sep 2012, 21:25 pm
@mxhosa-108:
> Kings:
> ????
Pukie ?
His dad said so
19 Sep 2012, 11:41 am
@mxhosa – at the moment the Bok feeder system = The Bulls
So, yes…I guess you’re right.
How do you okes feel about Mujati…? He’s done some good stuff in Uk….but he’s not played for reasons we all know.
Accusations of inequality for black players when there is racism agains our Zim brothers.
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