PdV’s Boks were as white as Meyer’s
18 Sep 2012
Peter de Villiers, whose last Bok XV had just three players of colour, says the current Bok team, which also has three, is too white.
Speaking to Ballz Radio on Monday, De Villiers lashed out at Heyneke Meyer’s apparent lack of interest in selecting players of colour.
‘It’s just the little things that bother me,’ said De Villiers. ‘We need to know in what country we do live. And at this moment we are turning a lot of black people against ourselves by making the team white and nobody will talk about these things but I just have to. And that is what … actually we’re breaking up our country again. We’re turning all the black support against the Springboks. Wherever I go I hear people talking negative about the Springboks.’
Ironically, though, Meyer selected three players of colour for the Test against the All Blacks in Dunedin (Beast Mtawarira, Bryan Habana and Zane Kirchner), the same number that De Villiers selected for the 2011 World Cup quarter-final against the Wallabies (Gurthro Steenkamp, Habana, and JP Pietsersen).
De Villiers told Ballz Radio that Gio Aplon, Juan de Jongh and Chiliboy Ralepelle were black players he feels could make a difference, yet Aplon started just three Tests in 2011 (one of which was against Namibia at the World Cup), De Jongh two (he came off the bench twice at the World Cup against Fiji and Namibia), and Ralepelle none (all three of his appearances last year were off the bench, including one against Namibia at the World Cup). In the four years that De Villiers was coach, Ralepelle started just two Tests at hooker, in the dead rubber against the British & Irish Lions at Ellis Park in 2009 and against Italy in Witbank in 2010.
The fact is that De Villiers’s transformation record as Bok coach is no better than Meyer’s.
111 Comments
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18 Sep 2012, 13:31 pm
@rangerman-47: @Skeppie-48: Mvovo deserved to be dropped yes (and his defence has always been woeful). But that is not the point I am making…. Put yourself for one second into the shoes of another and see how NOT dropping Steyn but dropping Mvovo, not selecting Kolisi from the getgo etc etc might look to you. (And don’t tell me that’s stupid….because 200 000 whites stopped shopping at Woolies because of what they ‘perceived’ to be the truth, funnily enough, also about numbers
Now personally I found the ‘Woolies is racist’ campaign to be ridiculous, and I find claims that Meyer is a racist just as ridiculous – my 1st post said he was thick, not racist. (go back and read it Ranger)
BUT: just because I don’t buy into either perception, doesn’t mean the perception isn’t there, and that it isn’t valid in the eyes of those perceiving it.
And therein lies Meyer’s problem. Funny though; the perception that P Divvy was a useless quota coach was welcomed…and now your words might ring a little truer (if I change the name)”i want actual reasons otherwise i will have to assume its a biased and race based assumption worse than what P Divvy is being accused of.”
Just saying perceptions work both ways. They are not unique to one culture, race, language or religious group.
18 Sep 2012, 13:31 pm
@nama1-50:
Let me try again:
“in our fucked up society assumptionsrather than facts”
18 Sep 2012, 13:32 pm
@nama1-49: I think you have put it better than my 8 posts have. I waffled too much I reckon. But that’s exactly what I was trying to say.
18 Sep 2012, 13:38 pm
@Big Hit-27: Nothing wrong with Kirchner.He has execured Meyer’s plan well.Lambie doesn’t fill me with confidence,as proven by his inept performances at super level playing 15.
18 Sep 2012, 13:41 pm
@nama1-49: no buddy, dont try and deflect an honest question by saying i have made up my mind already.
thats cowardly.
aplon is not in great form and would have presumably replace another POC (mvovo or habs or zane take your pic).
keegan and kolisi are in the same boat.
jdj? seriously? who would you have him replace? fransi or jdv?
what has jano got to do with anything?
no bud, it seems to me as though its a provincial gripe dressed up as a racial one imo.
as for jantjies where you broke the provincial shining mould, he and pat have been treated atrociously i agree, one white one black but pdv used jantjies how many times?
and lambie has been given the same treatment.
18 Sep 2012, 13:42 pm
Simon, you are being deliberately facetious and plain acting dof.
PDiv never compared his “transformation record” to HMs.
I didnt hear him say its HM’s fault the team is too white or anything. He always spoke of “we” missing the chance to build on the good spirit from RWC 2007.
Lets not forget that he did blood a lot of non-white players (Im not sure if Aplon and De Jongh would call themselves “black” but who knows).
Aplon, De Jongh, Mvovo, Beast, Mujati, Maku, Jantjies, and so on.
He also wanted other players to be in his squad (Conrad Jantjes and Earl Rose as 2 egs) that either lost form or for other reasons didnt make it.
But – and if youve read PDiv’s book you will know his views – transformation is not about just colour and numbers on the field.
But it is not a good example when (as many other Muppits commented) a player like Mvovo gets dropped for not doing much wrong, while 1. Morne gets 7 Tests to struggle in and 2. For a player struggling at 9 (hougaard) to be moved to the wing.
Also – while a player STRUGGLING like Morne is, gets to play an entire Test, while Elton is sitting on the bench (a capable player in all respects, regardless of his skin colour).
Another eg. Goosen leapfrogs the pecking order over Elton to now be #1 flyhalf. Elton should be given 7 Tests at LEAST to have a go.
I am not a big fan of quotas and focussing on colour at all, but we need to be fair and realistic in SA.
18 Sep 2012, 13:43 pm
The love affair with Hougie by some on here is also a bit perplexing as he doesn’t fit into Meyer’s game plan playing at 11.His chase on the high ball is non-existent and surely Meyer can see this and will give him the boot once JP and Basson are available again.
18 Sep 2012, 13:44 pm
Juan De Jongh dropped for JJ Engelbrecht originally ???? That was another clanger by HM…..
18 Sep 2012, 13:47 pm
@nama1-41:
Well, sorry, but to me that is a very racist mindset given the gist of the article which is that Meyer has done exactly what twakkie did. no worse-no better.
but you don’t get alienated when Twakkie selects only 3?
errrm yes.
18 Sep 2012, 13:48 pm
@grant10-58: Not replacing Morne with Elton whilst he was getting booed by all and sundry in PE was also a clanger.
18 Sep 2012, 13:53 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-59: Ja, when a cullert selects only 3 POC’s it’s because he has an astute rugby brain. When a d.utchy does it, it’s because he’s a neo-nazi.
18 Sep 2012, 13:53 pm
@rangerman-55: JDJ over Jean any day!
BUT, I would rather have JPP at 13 over anyone based on his recent form (remember Heyneke talking about form being rewarded?).
Habana scored an amazing try, but its the first one for AGES! How can we continuously play a winger that is “good” and “ok” and “solid” for 10 Tests and then scores 1 try? When we have so many young potential game-breakers in that position in SA?
Hougaard shouldve replaced Habana, and Mvovo shouldve kept his place I feel.
Before last Saturday many more people might’ve felt the same way, but now Habana has scored an amazing try (and I loved it and celebrated as much as anyone) and he is “safe” again.
Its amazing the effect Habana has on Bok supporters, he is accomodated and given a lot more leeway than most other players.
18 Sep 2012, 13:54 pm
The bigest mistake PDV made was giving rugby back to the white man. if there is one thing they hate is if coloured people are better than them in rugby.
If this was not SA, this could’ve been the Bok team – world beaters.
Aplon
Habana
JDJ
Waylon
Mvovo
Jantjies
Hougaard
Ashley
Kolisi
Brussouw
Lobberts
Etsebet
Beast
Chilliboy
Guthro.
18 Sep 2012, 13:54 pm
@wnbb-60: yes…
and for my sins I was there in the stands….frustrated as can be!
18 Sep 2012, 13:56 pm
@bokfan1-62: Because he can pull stuff like that out of nowhere….very few players can do that
18 Sep 2012, 13:57 pm
@rangerman-55:
As I said, you made up your mind and nothing would change it.
If you read properly, you would’ve seen that I said SQUAD as in: “You can’t deny that there was a (legitimate?) perception that Meyer prefered Bulls players when he announced his first squad.”
I guess you agree then that Potgieter, JJE should’ve been in the 40 men squad ahead of the Stormers players I mentioned.
In any case, people don’t need your permission or approval, or anybody’s for that matter, to have a certain perception of Meyer and act upon it. You also don’t have to agree with it but it still does not mean that they are wrong or that you are right. At the end of it all the best you can do is to respect whatever decision they make.
18 Sep 2012, 13:57 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-51: “woeful”??? Really??? Less or more woeful than someone like Morne, and even JdV (in the last Test)?
18 Sep 2012, 13:59 pm
@skop-63: Fudge Mabeta in plek van Etsebet.
Ek sal voorstel:
JDJ op 12
JPP op 13
En daar moet plek wees vir Mapoe in daai span…
18 Sep 2012, 13:59 pm
@wnbb-54: Lambie a better fullback than Kirtchner any day of the week. Niknaks just kicks the ball a bit further but inferior in every other way.
18 Sep 2012, 13:59 pm
@Atreides-65: For sure – but ONCE every 10 Tests?
18 Sep 2012, 13:59 pm
@skop-63: Skop that chip on your shoulder must really get you down….brush it off and put a smile on your dial my man
18 Sep 2012, 14:00 pm
@bokfan1-62: You are seriously deluded,mate.Habana is the best winger in SA at the moment.It’s not just about scoring great tries.His workrate has been absolute outstanding,pilfering balls at the breakdown and great defender on top of it.
18 Sep 2012, 14:02 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-69: Lambie has done nothing to deserve that 15 jersey,end of story.
18 Sep 2012, 14:02 pm
@bokfan1-68:
Fudge in place of Eben???????
18 Sep 2012, 14:02 pm
@Skeppie-71: That cant be the real Skop surely. I actually rate Skop/Fitzellas rugby knowledge.
18 Sep 2012, 14:02 pm
@Skeppie-71:
Why do you speak in code
18 Sep 2012, 14:03 pm
That aint skop
18 Sep 2012, 14:04 pm
Fudge and Lobberts. Awesome.
18 Sep 2012, 14:04 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-59:
That’s just simplifying things when you say both selected only 4 POC.
There is more to it than that.
Oh yes, the point I make is not based on what is written in this article. It comes from listening and talking to people who I watched rugby with every weekend. There are of course also those who defend him.
18 Sep 2012, 14:04 pm
@wnbb-73: Except tear it up against England in the second test, the only time the backs looked half decent under Meyer. Kirtchner is just as one-dimensional as Steyn. Offers nothing on attack, and nothing on defense for that matter going on last weekends showing.
18 Sep 2012, 14:04 pm
@wnbb-72: Jaaa everyone talks about “everything else” he does – chases kicks, turnovers etc. and I agree he is very good at that.
But what is a winger’s primary job? That is my point.
If a fly-half cant kick, how long will he last?
if a prop can scrum?
if a lock cant jump?
but somehow, Habana is exempt because he is “good on defence” and “chases well”?
Anyway, I didnt mean to turn it into a debate about Habana
18 Sep 2012, 14:05 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-75: Huh?
18 Sep 2012, 14:06 pm
@bokfan1-67: Similar to. Which is the point I am making with regard to the perceptions Meyer is creating. Mvovo was dropped, deservedly. Steyn gets to fuckupalloveragain week in and out, when he should have been dropped way before a fellow like Mvovo. (If you read my post way back – you will see I felt Mvovo was treated unfairly by Meyer. But that doesn’t change my opinion that I have always found him to be lacking on ‘D’)
18 Sep 2012, 14:06 pm
@Dawn-74: I thought Skop is making a non-white/coloured Bok team, so I was playing along…
Fudge is/was awesome… but probably not Bok level
18 Sep 2012, 14:06 pm
@Dawn-76: Ranger is someone I went to school with, wouldn’t want to be giving his ID away now…apparently on this site that is tantamount to treason!
18 Sep 2012, 14:07 pm
@Skeppie-82: THe real Skop is posting as Fitzella, this guys just an imposter.
18 Sep 2012, 14:07 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-83: Sorry man – I shouldve read your posts properly
I agree with your point completely and it is the same one I was making in my posts
18 Sep 2012, 14:08 pm
@bokfan1-81: …and he scores brilliant tries as well.
18 Sep 2012, 14:08 pm
@rangerman-55: PDV focuses on Jantjies, because all those in Natal are focusing on Lambie. You see? It’s about perceptions, I told you this. And Meyer the fuckkingoxymoron is the only fool who can correct any of this.
18 Sep 2012, 14:10 pm
Skop never blogged as “Skop.”
He blogged as SKOPSKIET.
18 Sep 2012, 14:10 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-86: Oh…well I am neither of them
18 Sep 2012, 14:10 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-83: Don’t waste your energy.He is only interested in two-step wingers instead of ones that can defend as well.
18 Sep 2012, 14:11 pm
@Skeppie-91: I know… Errrr. Nevermind, break-down in communication
18 Sep 2012, 14:15 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-93: No sweat, just don;t confuse me with Fitz1ella…..I would hate to be known as a bigot with a chip on my shoulder.
18 Sep 2012, 14:17 pm
@Skeppie-85:
I know.
I also know who he is.
Now why you speaking in code.
18 Sep 2012, 14:19 pm
@rangerman-55:
“but pdv used jantjies how many times?”
Now that’s a cop out if ever there was one.
Jantjies break through year was in 2010. In 2011 he did not play well in the S14 and was even dropped from the Lions team by Mitchell.
Unlike Meyer, who still selects Morne now despite his poor form, PdV opted not to select Jantjies because of his poor form in 2011 in the S14. Also, it was a RWC year. Not really the time to blood a young FH, if you know what I mean.
Do you now blame him for that?
18 Sep 2012, 14:21 pm
@Skeppie-94:
He didn’t confuse you with anyone
He was explaining it to you
18 Sep 2012, 14:26 pm
@Dawn-97: Terribly sorry Dawn…..I doff my hat.
18 Sep 2012, 14:26 pm
@skop-63:
Swop Hougaard for Heini Adams and we’re all set.
Two white quotas and all.
18 Sep 2012, 14:29 pm
@nama1-99: That’s really racist…you have no indians in that side.
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