Meyer demands more of Boks
30 Sep 2012
Despite a five-try victory over the Wallabies, Heyneke Meyer says the Springboks will need to be more clinical when they play the All Blacks next week.
The Boks thrashed the Wallabies at Loftus Versfeld, recording a four-try bonus point for the first time in the 2012 Rugby Championship. This result also marked an end to South Africa’s four-Test losing streak against the Wallabies.
The opportunity to win the tournament has long passed, but Saturday’s result is one to celebrate for a Bok team that is still building.
While Meyer was pleased to record his first win since the Boks beat Argentina in Cape Town, he said that people shouldn’t get too excited after the Wallabies thumping, and that there is much to improve before the Boks’ next Test against the All Blacks.
‘We have very high standards, and there were three more tries that we should have scored,’ the Bok coach said. ‘It’s great to come home and win, and we haven’t beaten the Aussies for some time, but we have to start taking those opportunities.
‘We would like to score more tries next week but we are aware of the challenge of playing the world champions.’
The Boks produced their best attacking performance of the year against the Wallabies, but then they owe that success to the superior showing up front.
New flyhalf Johan Goosen certainly provided the Boks with more impetus on attack, but there was no change to the game plan, as Jean de Villiers confirmed afterwards.
‘We haven’t changed one thing,’ said the Bok captain. ‘The thing that has changed is that we are now capitalising on the pressure we put on the opposition.
‘We have shown that we can create, and now we are starting to finish. It’s not that we went out there with a more attacking mindset. It was more about playing the situation.
‘If the opposition leave men back, then obviously there is more space to attack from close. If they bring men up, then you will kick to the back to find the space. No defence is watertight, there is always space. It’s about finding out where that space is and exploiting it.
‘We played fantastically today in terms of territory,’ De Villiers added. ‘We spent most of the game in their half. I was also very pleased with the way we pressured them at the breakdown.’
Meyer built on this statement, lauding his forwards for such a fine effort. He also singled out Francois Louw and Duane Vermeulen, not for their linking play, but for their efforts at the rucks.
‘I thought our loose forwards were awesome against New Zealand,’ said Meyer. ‘And today – Flo, that’s the type of player I want. I thought he was really outstanding, and both he and Duane have added an extra dimension with what they offer on the ground.
‘I’m not happy that we didn’t finish those three opportunities, but we were good at the breakdown. We also scrummed superbly and the lineout was very good.’
But again, Meyer tempered all of this praise by putting the Boks’ situation into perspective. The Boks have a date with the All Blacks in Soweto on 6 October, and there’s little doubt that the All Blacks will be far more difficult to breach.
‘New Zealand are a very settled side. In terms of defence, they have a number of experienced players who have been in that system for ages. They’re the world champions and one of the reasons for that is their defence.
‘It’s going to be really difficult to create and score against them. We will need to be more patient with ball in hand, more tactically astute. If we get scoring opportunities, we will need to make them count.
‘We are the only team that has played three matches away in a row. The All Blacks will come here now [after being in Argentina], and we are hoping that South Africa will get behind us. It is always harder for visiting teams to win on the Highveld too,’ he added.
By Jon Cardinelli, at Loftus Versfeld
235 Comments
29 Sep 2012, 20:55 pm
First for the first time…Boks forever.
29 Sep 2012, 21:08 pm
Only watched the part of the 2nd half, Woblies looked pathetically weak, seeing them with only 14 men because of too many subs was a double blow for Deans, he won’t last the year.
29 Sep 2012, 21:15 pm
@FRIKFORCE-1: big up
29 Sep 2012, 21:26 pm
Meyer, tell Pienaar to pick the bloody ball up behind the ruck and not complain to the ref when the opposition counter-rucks. We lost attacking ball 3 times due to him fuffing about.
29 Sep 2012, 21:30 pm
@gecko-4:
I have no clue why he slows the rucks down
When we ran with quick ruck ball (like the Abs) we were great especially with Goosen there
29 Sep 2012, 21:32 pm
@gecko-4: @gecko-4: you’re just clutching at straws now…face it he played the game that will keep Hougie on the wing or the bench!
29 Sep 2012, 21:39 pm
No clutching at straws. 3 times we lost attacking possession.
29 Sep 2012, 21:41 pm
@Westlyn-6:
I have to agree with Gecko on this one
When he went wide quickly our backs had more space
When he slows the ball at rucks 2 things happen
1. Defense set and drives ballcarrier back
2. or a turnover form a counter ruck
I am not sure Pienaar is the answer
29 Sep 2012, 21:44 pm
Pienaar was much better this time, but as people are saying he should not slow the ball down. That is a Bulls disease, no doubt under instruction from Herr Meyer.
29 Sep 2012, 21:46 pm
@kaksioek-9:
Plus his kicks are still too deep. This was ok with a depleted Oz back 3 but against ABs we can kick too deep and allow them to counter
29 Sep 2012, 21:54 pm
I just demand that the Boks land all their kicks. It is becoming a very strange pattern that every kicker who has stepped up so far this season is doing a rather embarrassing job. If we can’t land our kicks against the All Blacks, we’ll never be able to put them under huge pressure.
29 Sep 2012, 21:57 pm
@pattyfries-11:
Yes very important
But i cant see us having another bad kicking game after maybe 3-4 in a row now
Just the law of averages says we will have a better kicking day next week
29 Sep 2012, 22:16 pm
In defense of Pienaar: He was very cool, and show BMT. He took the pressure off The Goose on his debut and I am sure the young man breathed a sigh of relief when Pienaar’s first kick went over. Also, JdV made some astute decisions today, taking the pressure off The Goose and he also made some good breaks.
29 Sep 2012, 23:42 pm
DuPreez was just as big a culprit as Pinaar, DePreez peed me off countless times for the same thing, but he was argubaly the best in his position.
Cant believe the rave little goose is getting, he screwed up many a time.
30 Sep 2012, 00:37 am
i have to say that little elton put flouw into that gap beautifully in the short time he was on. pretty impressive. i would like to see more of him. maybr 20 minutes next time?
30 Sep 2012, 09:11 am
Heineken now has to build on continuity and allow this team to settle down and gain cap experience. He will have more options available when players like Frans, Burger, Chili, Coenie, JPP and. Kolisi return from injuries.
Now he just needs to bring in a quick 9 with a bullet pass who can get the ball to the goose and bang. Then he needs to look at finding better players replacement for JDV, Bekker and Kirchner.
30 Sep 2012, 09:22 am
Just fix the breakdown issues! Asap! there is no other team that gets shunted off the ball as easily as us. Referees seems reluctant to penalise a team for falling on the otherside after a good counter ruck. So FIX IT!!!! It won’t solve a single thing if you throw your hands in the air at the injustice of it all (looking at you Ruan…). At your next team meeting you should fckn speak up and demand we do something about our technique
30 Sep 2012, 09:26 am
@RL-16:
look at Smith this morning, superb pass DC does the rest and we have 50+ points
30 Sep 2012, 09:31 am
Going to be a cracker weekend next week!
AB’s are on a serious momentum roll. 15 straight victories, playing superb rugby should be favourites.
Bok’s starting to believe in eachother more, the gameplan more & the coach more.
They will be hard to beat in Soweto.
Does not get better than this.
30 Sep 2012, 09:33 am
@NZINCHINA-18: congratulations on your half ton, world champion performance- the Boks could have put 50 past the convicts too but they will get there soon enough. DC still has the legs it seems. Magnificent line break from him to rip the Argies apart – he be an older slower version of the Goose
30 Sep 2012, 09:39 am
Goosen a revelation and well overdue – when was the last time we had a flyhalf that attacks the gainline – he’s a better runner than ever carter and has immediately made the Boks far more of a threat.
Once bismark and coenie return and if hougaard goes to 9 with JP on the wing, this side could be nigh on unbeatable. Kirchener played v well and actually ran the gdam ball instead of hoof everytime and he runs hard and well. Taute is a good selection for the squad and fullback, made some outstanding tackles, but jdj should be 1st choice – 5mins at the end is complete window-dressing insult. Bok forwards been far better and v good the last two games with the correct players flo and vermeulen making a huge difference – however we are still getting counter-rucked way too often – protecting the ball should be a bok strength.
However, credit where it’s due, the Boks were generally fantastic and it must be said that Habana looks a completely different transformed player under meyer.
30 Sep 2012, 09:40 am
Boks demand more from Meyer
Don’t take half the season to make the obvious changes. In summary your 10 and how you manage the breakdown are prob the most important facets to rugby at the moment!!! Not rocket science
30 Sep 2012, 09:44 am
15 sjam completely agree. Also started the break from our 22. Morne should be 4th choice at best
30 Sep 2012, 09:47 am
1. Beast 2. Bismark 3. Coenie 4. Etsebeth 5. Bekker/Kruger 6. Flo/Brussow 7. Alberts 8. Vermeulen
9. Hougard 10. Goosen 11. Hanana 12. Frans 13. JdJ/jdV 14. JP 15. Taute/Kirchener.
Yoh.
30 Sep 2012, 09:50 am
@cab-24:
Cabbie you omitted the obligatory footnote ” this team will…….”
Well done to your boys, depleted weak Aus team but you backline can catch and pass now, did you catch the Argie game destroyed them DC the best around.
30 Sep 2012, 09:51 am
@RL-20:
Ha The Gooooose looks like he’ll serve you guys well in the future
30 Sep 2012, 09:55 am
Well done Bokke.
Finally the we break our losing streak against the Aussies.
HM is a slow learner but I think eventually we will come right.
Hougie is lost at wing, when JPP gets back he should move back to scrumhalf.
30 Sep 2012, 09:55 am
Cab re watch the Lions 05′ tour Goosen is not there yet my friend, he has a long long way to go before he emulates the “great” Dan Carter, lets not forget in 09′ you told us Morne was as good as Carter if not better LOL I think you were on the sauce that night
30 Sep 2012, 09:59 am
Hello NZinCN
Missed the Nz game – yip yours is still the team to beat but I reckon could just happen next week , but I suspect the injury to bismark might be tge difference between tge sides, neverless Boks will be keen to halt you taking their unbeaten test match record..
30 Sep 2012, 10:00 am
Apologies Cab, I didn’t read your post 21 thoroughly, you mentioned unbeatable again perfect at least you’re consistent!
30 Sep 2012, 10:03 am
@cab-29:
There is everything to play for, going to be a cracker if we get parity at the breakdown which we rectified in Argie land this morning we’ll win, despite you guys scoring some good back tries we are still better outwide. DC runs a show like no other.
30 Sep 2012, 10:03 am
Yip NZ I was about too say u missed it.
Ozzie no 7, hooper fantastic, samo huge too and Ozzie hooker that got shoulder injury is v good too, Beale out of this world skillful – should be starting at 10 permanent.
30 Sep 2012, 10:05 am
The funny thing is Goosen is a better goal kicker than Steyn. He will have a 90 percent goal kicking record in his career and most of the kicks he missed for the Cheetahs this year were from his own half. His drop kicking accuracy is out of this world and he has a huge boot.
Goosen was good on attack, but as a complete flyhalf he should be twice as good next week as his first start is out of the way.
In saying this Carter has been as good and for most parts of his career better and he has done it all. Goosen needs some luck and plenty more to reach the same level as Carter, but there are only a few players with the talent to reach these heights and Goosen has it.
30 Sep 2012, 10:10 am
@cab-32:
ha yip they did pretty well I thought considering their injuries etc far better Australian sides have gone to Loftus and been beaten so this team didn’t stand much chance, sets it up nicely though for the two best teams in the world to play next week, Hansen wants that world record more than a RC as Henry fell at the hurdle a few years back.
Was very impressed with your backrow we’ll have to get on top of them next week.
30 Sep 2012, 10:12 am
“I have never seen anything like that in terms of carnage,” Deans told reporters.
A fine gift to the Argies who can take the crims to the cleaners and pick up their first win inm the RC.
30 Sep 2012, 10:13 am
@NZINCHINA-34: You will struggle with the travelling this week.
30 Sep 2012, 10:15 am
@RL-35:
Not Deans’ style to make excuses but they must have been missing at least 10 if not more frontline starters by the final whistle last night.
30 Sep 2012, 10:18 am
@Horings-36:
Of course you are in a better position there but no other team comes anywhere near our away record, it’ll be a factor but the senior guys like Ritchie were pulled early this morning when the game was won so they’ll still have the legs and the desire. I can’t remember the last time I saw an AB side in the last 20 home or away fade, they are very well conditioned.
30 Sep 2012, 10:21 am
@gecko-4 et al
We cant always see on the screen for what reason they may be trying to slow the ball down on attacking ball. They know better than anyone that quick attacking ball is a good thing. It could well be that we ourselves are disorganised in the backline or the Aussies are just well organised on defense and they want to start again or any other number of reasons. Pienaar had a really good game yesterday – best by a scrumhalf since Fourie left. Hougaard was disappointing in bok jersey this season.
Whatever the reason we have been vulnerable to counter rucking throughout the tournament but I guess its about striking the balance between committing to any given ruck and making sure you have resources available to win the next one. Overall we won the breakdown easy yesterday. But its an international against one of the top 4 teams in the world. You have to expect to turnover a few balls. Decent opposition and they not just standing there watching the game you know.
30 Sep 2012, 10:47 am
@38 yep China….that is one of the defining differences between Abs & Boks, superior fitness & conditioning
..
30 Sep 2012, 10:48 am
Well played Bekker. We know what he’s capable of and I hope he gets over that back injury for good now! I’ll say it again, Juandre Kruger is a shadow of the tall man, stay fit Bekker!
30 Sep 2012, 12:41 pm
Guys going on about Pienaar not clearing the ruck fast have got to get glasses. In the cases where this happened the ruck ball was not presented properly because the tackler was not rolling away , hence the hands in the air. The responsibility is on the tackled player to present the ball and if he is prevented from doing so either by the defender slowing it down, in most cases illegally, or the support arriving late how the hell can that be Ruan’s fault. He has the best pass of any of the SA scrummies including FDP
30 Sep 2012, 13:13 pm
I wonder what happens when Juan, Burger, Spies become available again?
FLouw, Vermulen and Alberts are getting the Job done but the 3 guys above are proven when on form of course.
what happens when FDuP , JPP, JFourie become available who gets dropped or rather who doesn’t get picked
30 Sep 2012, 13:50 pm
@gecko-4:
Geks I gotta disagree, I thought Pienaar was very good today, took a lot of the tactical kicking responsibility, passed excellently and varied the tempo of our game plan well. He was also involved in several attacking movements and got the assist for Habana’s try.
I think the criticism will be 2 from 5 kicks at goal which is fair, but one was off the post and another from long range. He stepped in to take the pressure Goosen which was the right thing to do, if he were given an extended run as kicker I would wager he would achieve a good success rate.
30 Sep 2012, 13:53 pm
Pienaar has the best pass in SA and the best appreciation of variety and tempo. I am also a big fan of hougaard who offers something different.
30 Sep 2012, 14:16 pm
if loose 3 keep improving, there may be no room for Schalk once he returns from injury. Perhaps at the expense of Willem
30 Sep 2012, 14:21 pm
45 Hougaard has offered nothing this season for the Bokke.
30 Sep 2012, 14:29 pm
@pattyfries-11:
30 Sep 2012, 14:30 pm
@pattyfries-11: Blame the kicking coach for that…nind you, who is our kicking coach
30 Sep 2012, 14:31 pm
SA are choking big time in the cricket. At the first sign of pressure the choke commences… a loss here and they are out.
Parnell is ****!
30 Sep 2012, 14:31 pm
@papaown-49: Louis Skoen.
30 Sep 2012, 14:32 pm
@Liewe Luiperd-51: Enough said! We can blame him
30 Sep 2012, 14:35 pm
@UptheGuts-17: I thought our breakdown showing yesterday was 1 of our better showings IMHO
30 Sep 2012, 14:37 pm
@cab-21: To be fair Habana’s transformation had started in this S15 campaign so perhaps credit should go to AC and the Stormers?
30 Sep 2012, 14:38 pm
Parnell getting smashed now (as usual).
30 Sep 2012, 14:41 pm
This is the Rugby 365 Bok ratings:
Quintin van Jaarsveld rates the Springbok players.
15 Zane Kirchner
Knew when to join the line and rounded off well to score the opening try. Almost scored a second and did little wrong.
7/10
14 Bryan Habana
A brilliant, lively performance by the hat-trick hero. He truly led by example and popped up absolutely everywhere. He made the right decision to spread the ball wide for Kirchner to score and broke another in a list of individual records with his three touchdowns.
9/10
13 Jaco Taute
The debutant’s hands were a bit shaky and as a result he made a couple of handling errors and wasn’t his dangerous self on attack. On defence, however, he couldn’t be faulted.
7/10
12 Jean de Villiers
He made a couple of inspired decisions as skipper that bolstered the team’s fortunes greater than his strong running and defending in midfield did. There was the decision to take the pressure off Johan Goosen with a change of goal-kicker and turning down kickable penalties that saw the Boks claim the first four-try bonus point of the Rugby Championship.
7.5/10
11 Francois Hougaard
Needed to inject himself into the game and slipped the tackle on Kurtley Beale that led to Mike Harris’ try.
6/10
10 Johan Goosen
A shaky run-on debut as far as goal-kicking was concerned but he showed character not to let the two early misses effect his overall performance. Yes his goal-kicking was disappointing, but his attacking game was promising. He played flat, made a scintillating break and got the backline firing with his accurate distribution.
7/10
9 Ruan Pienaar
The way in which he stood up as a senior player and took the pressure off the younger backs superseded his primary scrumhalves responsibilities, which he also executed well.
8/10
8 Duane Vermeulen
He’s really coming into his own on the international stage and was particularly influential at the breakdown, where he won a couple of turnovers, and on defence.
8/10
7 Willem Alberts
A juggernaut with ball in hand and on defence. His workrate and intensity on defence should not be underestimated. He’s taken on the enforcer role and smashed back many a Wallaby ball-carrier with his aggressive tackling.
8/10
6 Francois Louw
Perhaps didn’t make the most of the opportunity in Dunedin but boy did he shine at Loftus! He was equally brilliant at the breakdown and as a link between forwards and backs and had a hand in two of the Boks’ try, the latter an excellent long ball that put Habana in for his third.
9/10
5 Andries Bekker
He wanted to prove a point and he did with seven takes, 10 tackles and offloads backline players would be proud of. Mendoza was but a distant memory – Bekker is back!
8.5/10
4 Eben Etzebeth
Like a caged animal, Etzebeth channelled and unleashed his power after serving his suspension and rag-dolled Wallaby captain Nathan Sharpe when the two behemoths collided. It wasn’t all brute force from the youngster as he also managed a couple of steals against the throw.
8/10
3 Jannie du Plessis
Showed some good ball skills for a big man as his offload from the deck contributed to one of Habana’s tries.
7/10
2 Adriaan Strauss
An unsung hero, he was prominent with ball in hand, hard-as-nails and sublime at the set-piece. A truly accomplished performance by a class act.
8/10
1 Tendai Mtawarira
Fronted up at scrum time but his real value was on defence, where he made eight tackles.
7/10
Replacements:
16 Tiaan Liebenberg (on for Strauss, 75th minute)
Not enough time to be rated.
17 Pat Cilliers (on for Du Plessis, 70th minute)
Not enough time to be rated.
18 Flip van der Merwe (on for Etzebeth, 58th minute)
A solid cameo, especially on defence.
7/10
19 Marcell Coetzee (on for Alberts, 58th minute)
Acted quickly to pounce on a loose ball and save a possible try in his first act from the bench and injected power and pace into the game.
7/10
20 Elton Jantjies (on for Goosen, 75th minute)
Not enough time to be rated.
21 Juan de Jongh (on for Taute, 75th minute)
Not enough time to be rated.
22 Pat Lambie (on for Kirchner,54th minute)
Relished some game time but had little attacking opportunities. He was composed at the back and got good distance with his defensive clearing kicks.
7/10
30 Sep 2012, 14:45 pm
Watson moer ons stukkend.
30 Sep 2012, 14:58 pm
Parnell is sht.
30 Sep 2012, 14:58 pm
@Liewe Luiperd-55:
He cannot field either.
30 Sep 2012, 15:01 pm
missed stumping by the captain and then a six gets smashed the very next ball…
30 Sep 2012, 15:02 pm
Isn’t SA the number 1 ranked T20 team in the world?
CH-CH-CH-CH-CHOKE
30 Sep 2012, 15:03 pm
@Liewe Luiperd-60: Nothing working for us today. Batting was poor, our bowling hasn’t threatened them, AB’s not having the best day, and our fielding is lethargic.
30 Sep 2012, 15:04 pm
I saw a news headline on News24 today: “AB: We won’t choke”
30 Sep 2012, 15:05 pm
@katman-62:
If the ****’s beat india tonight we on the plane back home.
30 Sep 2012, 15:06 pm
@Robzim-64:
*** = Pakistani’s
30 Sep 2012, 15:07 pm
@Robzim-64: If that happens, I’m backing the home team for the tournament. They’ve looked very good so far.
30 Sep 2012, 15:11 pm
@katman-66:
The Aussies will be hard to beat as long as Watson keeps his form. On the day anything can happen though so i won’t bet on anyone for now.
30 Sep 2012, 15:12 pm
@Robzim-67: TRue, but Watson is one man. If he goes, anything can happe. The Sri Lankans look to be a very well balanced side, and very good in the field.
30 Sep 2012, 15:18 pm
@katman-68:
Yip, 4 x man of the match in a row– I guess it cannot continue for ever, some or other time he will fail.
30 Sep 2012, 15:22 pm
@Robzim-69: He’s top of all the different tables except for biggest six where he is in second place.
30 Sep 2012, 16:50 pm
@stormersboy-56:
Not sure how they only gave Goosen only a 7? The reason the Boks scored 5 tries today was because of his influence. Players like Habana and Kirchner benefited from his play both directly and indirectly.
Also, for me Pienaar, was average and also benefited from Goosen. Quintin seems to neglect Pienaar kicked far worse with something like 2 from 6 (don’t quote me on that figure) but rated him higher?
Also, Houggard while nothing fancy on attack, was doing a lot of defensive work. Often rushing up onto the props and tackling them first before they could get any momentum.
30 Sep 2012, 17:00 pm
@BrisbaneBok-71: Agree about Pienaar. The jury is out on his slow service. We need quicker ball from the breakdown.
30 Sep 2012, 17:01 pm
Pienaar delivers slow ball from the breakdown. This is a problem. Sort it out.
30 Sep 2012, 17:12 pm
Personally I would pick this 15 for the test:
15 Patrick Lambie 14 Jaco Taute 13 Juan De Jongh 12 Jean de Villiers 11 Bryan Habana 10 Johan Goosen 9 Ruan Pienaar 8 Duane Vermeulen 7 Willem Alberts 6 Francois Louw 5 Andries Bekker 4 Eben Etzebeth 3 Jannie Du Plessis 2 Tiaan Liebenberg 1 Tendai Mtawarira
16 Adriaan Strauss 17 CJ Van Der Linde 18 Juandre Kruger 19 Marcell Coetzee 20 Francois Hougaard 21 Elton Jantjes 22 Lwazi Mvovo / F Steyn / Kirchner
30 Sep 2012, 17:25 pm
@NZINCHINA-38: The AB’s away record has more to do with how much better they have been than the opposition than with how much better conditioned, I’d say.
30 Sep 2012, 17:35 pm
@the authority-73:
Yep I said the same yesterday
many are saying he had a great game
Remember he was playing with a pack on the front foot winning good ruck ball and most of the lineouts
When he did speed up his service Goosen had room to run.
if he slows the ball at the rucks V ABs they will counter ruck and lose it or be forced to kick which is what ABs want
Also his box kicks are way to deep and the ABs will counter attack which they do very well
We looked great when moving quick ruck ball
Lets fix that i agree
30 Sep 2012, 17:41 pm
Meyer demands more?? He was so absorbed in his resolve to sell an ideology that he missed 80% of the game. Probably waiting for his game plan to kick in to claim some responsibility for the win. He only noticed a few skop and jag moves and was otherwise blinded to backline moves of which there was plenty.
The two Stains/Steyns in the team seem to be the problem besides the weak coach. The best HM can do for himself and his job prospects is stay away from the practise ground and get the selectors to pick the team. It seems like JDV has decided to save himself by ignoring the coach and his dumb game plan.
30 Sep 2012, 17:46 pm
I can’t guarantee it but it seems like yesterday’s win means the Boks move ahead of Australia in the IRB rankings. It may be short lived if the ABs win next week but at least Meyer has made an impact
30 Sep 2012, 17:48 pm
@Liewe Luiperd-61:
Nope, only for two days until they lost to England in the last T20.
30 Sep 2012, 17:54 pm
@gonzo-78:
The only real impact he has made is to make a fool of himself
With his persistence of using Steyn in previous matches and other selections and his dumb game plan.
Fortunately he is starting to change his ways
Hopefully with Goosen Vermeulen Flow Taute even Jantjies on bench and better props on the bench things can only get better
30 Sep 2012, 17:57 pm
@BrisbaneBok-71: Good points on Goosen and Pienaar. Goosen played very well for his first test.
Pienaar stuffs around way too much behind the rucks, gives the defense too much time to re-organize. He had his best game last night in many, but so did everyone. Still wouldn’t be my first choice though.
30 Sep 2012, 18:02 pm
@CoachPete-76: Agreed – for all this talk about his kicking game, his performance with the boot yesterday was far from perfect. Some of his kicks handed posession straight back to the opposition and allowed them to counter.
As far as I’m concerned, Pienaar is a liability in Bok clothing… Slow ball stunts our attack and poor kicks hands posession back to the opposition.
30 Sep 2012, 18:05 pm
I thought AB had learnt his lesson to not comment before a game. It seems some never learn. The less said the better…
The Boks on the other hand showed some improvement but to be taken seriously they will need to string a number of wins together. Winning the odd game is not good enough.
30 Sep 2012, 18:06 pm
@stormersboy-81: I agree… Pienaar has some good points, but I would prefer a scrumhalf who gets us super quick service from the breakdown. This is the most crucial aspect of any good scrumhalf.
30 Sep 2012, 18:07 pm
@the authority-82:
yes The question is do you play Hougaard with Goosen. and I would say yes give it a shot. Could be quiet exciting actually. Just limit Hougaards box kicks
Otherwise we need a 9 like AB’s smith
Taute could move to 14 and Habana back to 11?
30 Sep 2012, 18:08 pm
What happens now? Do you bring Frans back into the team or do you stick with the winning team?
I guess you should stick with the winning team or play Frans at 15. Jean was much better at 12 as well.
30 Sep 2012, 18:09 pm
@Kaizan-84:
Ja this standing with the ball available is a British bad habit Lets move good quick ruck ball out wide even if we kick it the defense has less time to organize
30 Sep 2012, 18:12 pm
@CoachPete-87:
Howzit Coach! Ruan was way too slow clearing the ball and on more than one occasion the Ozzies pushed us back and we lost the ball. I’m for a quick service scrumhalf and prefer the 10 to clear when necessary. He also kicked too much ball away. With all that said we won and should now build on this winning team without swopping and changing too much…
30 Sep 2012, 18:13 pm
@Gumboots-86:
Howzit Yeah not sure I dont believe he will have Steyn at 15 He likes steyn at 12
Dont konw extent of kirshner’s injury but he played well
30 Sep 2012, 18:17 pm
@CoachPete-89:
Kirshner was not bad at all. In fact I would keep the same team for the AB’s. Consistency is important if you want to instal confidence in the team. Frans’ injury just created an opportunity for Taute which he took with both hands after an indifferent start.
30 Sep 2012, 18:18 pm
@Gumboots-88:
Yes a lot of us see that with pienaar Does HM ?
Taute was ok at 13 defended well
Move Hougaard to 9 and taute to 14 maybe
Keep the center pair or move steyn to 15 and play jdj at 13 and Jdv at 12 ?
And then have Pienaar and jantjies on bench with lambie
Our forwards pack seems set although maybe Alberts an impact player off bench and start Coetzee
Alberts put in a lot of the dirty work and is main ball carrier
30 Sep 2012, 18:19 pm
@Gumboots-90:
yeah just some ideas, a bit of tinkering could make them even better then build on that
30 Sep 2012, 18:20 pm
@CoachPete-87: @Gumboots-88: Yeah I want the flyhalf to be the main decision maker… The scrumhalf obviously needs to make decisions too, but when Pienaar takes his sweet time looking at our backline and who he’s going to pass to etc, it makes the attack difficult for everyone else because the opposition defense has re-set…. Makes the flyhalfs job more difficult too.
Would rather have a guy like Aaron Smith or Hougaard to get quick ball to Goosen and he can make decisions with the opposition defense unset.
Slow ball from the scrumhalf = less dangerous flyhalf.
Goosen deserves better.
30 Sep 2012, 18:23 pm
@CoachPete-91:
Hougaard was probably the worst player yesterday and leaked the Ozzie try. Maybe Taute to 15 and the Steyn back to 12. With that said I don’t think Jean is a 13 though.
30 Sep 2012, 18:23 pm
@Kaizan-93:
There are about 5 guys posting right now all seem to have same opinion
I understand his experience but he has done well in the Celtic rugby (Ulster) where all ball is slow
30 Sep 2012, 18:26 pm
@Gumboots-94:
Fairness to Hougaard Yes he did allow Beale to get around him but Beale in open field is a slippery character the best of times
Hougaard give his all weather at 9 or basically out of position at 11
30 Sep 2012, 18:26 pm
@Kaizan-93:
The biggest difference to our play yesterday was the vision of our 10. He had the opposition guessing all the time. They had no idea what was going to happen next. The quick service from 10 had them worried. When Ruan slowed the play down we became more predictable again and the Ozzies found it easier to counter. We need to play at pace with Goosen allowed to play his natural game. The kicking game once again didn’t work at all. We just handed possession back to the Ozzies.
30 Sep 2012, 18:31 pm
@CoachPete-96:
He is a 100 percent player mate, but he has to be careful not to become a utility player, like Lambie has become. I don’t think it does any player any good. I for one have always voiced my objection to the moving of players out of position. Lambie should say he wants to play 10 or 15 or 12 and stick to that position. Look what happened to Frans and Ruan! They both left due to them both becoming utility players.
30 Sep 2012, 18:31 pm
@Gumboots-94: I like the idea of JP Pietersen at 13…. He found form this year after playing at 13. It seems to have given him a new perspective on attacking play.
As a wing, JP has been average for the Springboks overall (only 14 tries in 54 tests for South Africa)… As an outside centre, I think he could be very dangerous…. We are also lacking depth at 13.
Just a thought. I could be completely wrong, but truthfully, Jean is a 12, not a 13… Taute is a fullback and I have reservations about Juan De Jongh.
30 Sep 2012, 18:32 pm
Against ABs Our forwards are key where we win out ball and disrupt their ball
We need to watch players like Smith closely
Hopefully Louw and Vermeulen contest strongly at break down forcing RM to give up penalties
We need to move quick ruck ball and hold on to possession
No bad kicks at all and if we do let chase the kicks (hopefully not to deep) We dont need them to be counter attacking too often
And be disciplined. Limit kickable shots at goal because DC will get his usual 15 to 18 points per game
And no missed tackles drive them back behind gain line This tends to disrupt their flow .
Ok email that to HM
30 Sep 2012, 18:33 pm
@Gumboots-98:
yes agreed no need to mess him around he is a quality player
30 Sep 2012, 18:35 pm
@Kaizan-93:
Who gives a **** what you want, you know fuckall about rugby china.
30 Sep 2012, 18:36 pm
@Kaizan-99:
HM may have played his cards with Taute
if he wanted Taute at 15 he had the chance to move him there when Kirshner got injured.
I get the feeling he likes taute at 13 or 14
30 Sep 2012, 18:36 pm
@Kaizan-99:
I hear you and think JP had a few good games at 13. Is he going to be a great 13, time would tell? I for one think he will make a difference to the Bok team back at 14. He is big and HM is obsessed with size!
30 Sep 2012, 18:36 pm
Nice chatting boys… over and out.
30 Sep 2012, 18:38 pm
@Matfield-102:
Really? This is a blog and everyone has a right to their opinion.
30 Sep 2012, 18:38 pm
@Matfield-102:
Hey be nice its his opinion just like anybody He is entitled to it.
This is just a debate about possible changes
30 Sep 2012, 18:39 pm
@Kaizan-105:
Nice chatting cheers
30 Sep 2012, 18:39 pm
@Matfield-102: Relax, life is short. Just express opinions and enjoy chatting and debating with fellow rugby enthusiasts… If you disagree with someone, just give your view-point.
Anyway, I gotta go. Cheers ou’s.
30 Sep 2012, 18:39 pm
@Gumboots-106:
Snap
30 Sep 2012, 18:40 pm
@Kaizan-109:
Cheers boet!
30 Sep 2012, 18:41 pm
@Kaizan-109:
Dont worry about it, we acknowledge your opinions
30 Sep 2012, 18:42 pm
@CoachPete-110:
LOL! I enjoy good banter but detest insults…
30 Sep 2012, 18:45 pm
@Gumboots-113:
Yeah sure we all have our different opinions and prefer one player over another
Sometimes reading good posts with valid points about different options is good
Even if someone comes up with some wild comment about using some obscure player it can be questioned in a civil manner
30 Sep 2012, 18:46 pm
Just a(nother) troll. Ignore.
30 Sep 2012, 18:47 pm
@Gumboots-111:
Glad to see you a bit more positive about the Boks. It’s amazing what a win can do.
The thing is, with Morne out of the picture, there are so many other options available to Heyneke.
Lambie is the 2nd choice fullback. So i don’t think HM will shift Taute there. Personally, I would like to see an unchanged team against the AB’s. But i reckon Hm will bring back Frans at 12. And I feel Frans, who also has a good step, will be brought more into the game by Goosen. But then again as everyone is saying Ruan needs to speed things up for Gossen to take the ball quickly on the fron foot.
30 Sep 2012, 18:48 pm
@CoachPete-114:
For sure! A few really good bloggers and respected bloggers have left due to the new breed of blogger. It used to be really great here, but at times I would rather just log off.
30 Sep 2012, 18:49 pm
Like yesterday some one was blaming De jonge for messing up that try (the runaway Pienaar play)
The fact that Jdj recognized he was not going to make it and sprinted to support him was well done . The fact that he was inches short was unlucky basically caused by a good tackle.
For me as a coach i stress supporting the ball carrier or always having a player to pass the ball to anywhere anytime
Just watch the ABs they always have a supporting player
30 Sep 2012, 18:51 pm
@I am a stormer-116:
Howzit buddy! I am more positive mate and have always believed in winning being the number one goal. If you keep winning it becomes a habit. HM is starting to listen to us, right?
@stormersboy-115:
Also missed your comments mate…
30 Sep 2012, 18:51 pm
The Proteas are hanging on by their fingernails in this tournament.
So we need to smash India and hopefully the Aussies do the same to Pakistan.
That’s the way I read it.
30 Sep 2012, 18:52 pm
@I am a stormer-116:
Did you go to the game? Something makes me think you did…
30 Sep 2012, 18:53 pm
@I am a stormer-116:
You know with Goosen at 10 I think steyn with see more space I can see it
Steyn has the step and the size and some speed
I have seen it time and time again where a good running 10 can open things for his 12
30 Sep 2012, 18:53 pm
@I am a stormer-120:
I think we are out mate… I work with most of them and the mind plays silly games at times…
30 Sep 2012, 18:53 pm
@BrisbaneBok-71:
he misse 4 from 7 kicks (2 pen and 2 con).
he was a lottery at the best of times.
cannot imagine what he would have done if the pack dd not dominate and the oozies were not stricken by injurues.
30 Sep 2012, 18:54 pm
@Gumboots-119:
I hate losing more than i like winning
30 Sep 2012, 18:56 pm
@CoachPete-125:
Ja for sure. I can never get the guys who say there positives when we keep on losing. I don’t buy it at all.
30 Sep 2012, 18:57 pm
@Gumboots-119:
Howzit Bill. HM took a while to drop Morne. He hung on there for too long with him. He has now seen the future and it is bright. There are so many options available to him.
But the AB’s will be a totally different kettle of fish. But we can take them. Am looking forward to next Saturday. And being there.
And Easties was a blast yesterday once again.
30 Sep 2012, 18:58 pm
@I am a stormer-127:
Howzit
Lucky bugger
30 Sep 2012, 18:58 pm
To all the kirchener haters out there i think zane must be giving you lot the middle finger,as has NOT let the boks down in any of his perfoemances to date in the RC
and he seems to be getting better with every game,so if he does not do it i will give you lot the middle finger.
30 Sep 2012, 18:59 pm
@I am a stormer-127:
I’m trying to organise something for next week too. I’m sure it was. Loftus was a bit empty yesterday, unlike when we went to the Stormer game…
Too few pink buggers in the team is my guess…
30 Sep 2012, 19:00 pm
@Gumboots-121:
I sure was. Pity about the empty seats. Loftus was fuller at the Stormers v Bulls game.
True story.
30 Sep 2012, 19:00 pm
@blueboy-129:
No need mate! I think most said he had a good game. The first for some time. Give credit when due is what I say…
30 Sep 2012, 19:01 pm
@blueboy-129:
We acknowledge he was good yesterday
Making good decisions and joining the backs at the right time
He was usually in position taking the high balls well
So yes but at times he can be very predictable and one dimensional
Glad to see him shake out of that yesterday
30 Sep 2012, 19:01 pm
@CoachPete-125:
@Gumboots-126:
ag look, there’s little difference between winning and losing, except you feel better after winning.
30 Sep 2012, 19:02 pm
@Gumboots-119: Hey Bill. Been around, not just as often. Started getting a bit much for a while, discuss/post more on some of the other forums now too, so less time on keo.
You well?
30 Sep 2012, 19:02 pm
@I am a stormer-131:
I might see you there. My daughter got married last weekend. You met my son in law last time. We have a lot of family from the Cape still here. She married a Blue Bull… Shame she doesn’t know better though…
30 Sep 2012, 19:02 pm
@I am a stormer-131:
Yeah whats with that ? Seats expensive?
30 Sep 2012, 19:03 pm
@CoachPete-128:
Howzit coach. Loftus was good. But now looking forward to seeing a match with 80,000 others seeing I missed last year’s game.
You keeping well?
30 Sep 2012, 19:04 pm
@stormersboy-135:
I am mate! I’m also very scarce. Get a bit gatvol at times but then just leave…
I’m missing UFO though. You heard anything from him?
30 Sep 2012, 19:04 pm
@Gumboots-136:
Ag shame poor girl lol
30 Sep 2012, 19:05 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-134:
Howzit Whitney! Your take on the Goose?
30 Sep 2012, 19:05 pm
@I am a stormer-138:
Ja thanks I enjoyed boks yesterday Just nice to see them moving the ball
Very nice
30 Sep 2012, 19:05 pm
@Gumboots-139: Chat to hime via email, he’s fine, also got gatvol.
30 Sep 2012, 19:06 pm
@I am a stormer-138:
I was there last year, so don’t want to miss it this time around…
30 Sep 2012, 19:07 pm
@CoachPete-140:
@stormersboy-143:
Ja I know. Tell him I send my best. I miss his take on rugby though.
30 Sep 2012, 19:07 pm
@Gumboots-136: geluk!
Ja sometimes you have to just let them makes their own mistakes
Thats not too bad I guess…
30 Sep 2012, 19:09 pm
@stormersboy-146:
Dankie boet! He is a really good guy. Some are!
Not many though. We have been here for twenty years now – time to move back to the Cape though…
30 Sep 2012, 19:11 pm
@I am a stormer-138:
Yes should be a great game hopefully
Some factors favouring us:
playing at home
Boks improving with a 10 who is not predictable
ABs know mentally its the boks and boks are always up for ABs
Travel factor (not as big a deal these days)
Abs just coming off an almost perfect game Vs Pumas and a big high so could come down to earth hard .
We will compete at breakedown for sure
30 Sep 2012, 19:11 pm
@CoachPete-137:
Not sure. Can’t put my finger on it. Might have something to do with the fact that a couple of their favourite sons weren’t playing. Maybe they’re gatvol the way the Bulls are performing in the CC right now. And yes, seats aren’t cheap particularly if you want to take a family. They’re a lot more expensive than Super 15. Our seats yesterday were R600. Super 15 you can get in for R70.
And next week seats are R450. The more expensive ones went very quickly. So I think we might have a full Soccer City.
30 Sep 2012, 19:14 pm
@CoachPete-148:
I think the pack is almost spot on and the backs getting there. We need to have 30 really good players and keep them together for a period of time.
30 Sep 2012, 19:15 pm
@I am a stormer-149:
thats still cheap
The crappy NFL oakland raiders get $100.00 per game
30 Sep 2012, 19:15 pm
@Gumboots-136:
Congrats mate. Hope the weekend went off well. But you get that in families. I know a couple where the husband is a Sharks supporter and the missus an even bigger Stormers supporter. Guess which one knows their rugby?
30 Sep 2012, 19:17 pm
@I am a stormer-152:
Thanks buddy! I told him that it is not too late to convert. At present he may just.
His team is not really performing lately…
30 Sep 2012, 19:20 pm
@Gumboots-150:
yes plus he has finally let go his Bull stiffs (sorry Blue boy)
added a balanced squad and got players back form injury who will settle in soon
Props now have good back ups
We are fine at 2 but miss Bissy
Locks seem set not sure about Flip (ag sorry he is a blue bull )
Lose forwards too i woudl like to see maybe Alberts be a lock back up and add maybe Brussow and of course my fav Daniel
( still a debate
10 settled goosen with jantjies as back up
Back up centers are fine taute and de jonge and even lambie
Wings fine too
and 15 well could be any of 4 lol
30 Sep 2012, 19:21 pm
@Gumboots-150: Agree with you on the pack. The locks really came into their own, both making telling contributions, and the loose trio is one of the better balanced that we’ve had for a while now.
FLO was massive last night, really showing his worth.
30 Sep 2012, 19:21 pm
sorry 9 still a debate
30 Sep 2012, 19:23 pm
@CoachPete-154:
Time will tell! We need to string a few consectutive wins together before getting too excited…
30 Sep 2012, 19:25 pm
@stormersboy-155:
He was too. How on earth did we allow him to leave? Bekker had his best game for some time and Etsebeth is going to be something special. Agree on loose trio…
30 Sep 2012, 19:25 pm
@CoachPete-156:
I liked the look of Van Zyl at 9… Don’t know if anyone agrees with me
30 Sep 2012, 19:28 pm
@Gumboots-159:
i dont see much of him we dont get the CC here
Someone like ABs smith hopefully
30 Sep 2012, 19:28 pm
I’m outta here. Cheers guys and let’s hope next week will be much of a muchness…
30 Sep 2012, 19:29 pm
@CoachPete-160:
Played Super Rugby for Cheetahs. Quick service and nippy… One for the future…
Cheers guys…
30 Sep 2012, 19:30 pm
@Gumboots-141:
hey bill,
no real complaints, am pleased with the way he attacks the line and his general decision making and passing seems good to go. he made a few mistakes but thats to be expected.
of course its pointless not to mention the fact we missed about 6 kicks in total. 2 from goosen and 4 from pienaar. against nz that could / would prove deadly.
when morne comes back from his break it will be good to have three world class 10′s fighting for the bok jersey. perhaps meyer could even dabble with a rotation policy once winning becomes the norm.
i expect this bok team/squad to go on a winning streak similar to mallets squad.
30 Sep 2012, 19:37 pm
@stormersboy-155:
@Gumboots-158:
Yes Flo did have a huge game yesterday. Which makes me think that HM is having a re-think about having a specialist player at the breakdown. And that a recall for Brussow could happen. Or put it this way. HM might be looking at Brussow’s play a bit more carefully.
Heyneke had struck me as aperson who is prepared to learn from his mistakes. Sometimes sticks with players for too long eg Morne. Sometimes his hand is forced eg Spies.
He has slowly realised that change can be for the better especially when intorducing youngsters. But all of those youngsters have grabbed their opportunity. Here I think Goosen, Taute, Lambie, Elton, JDJ, Etzebeth, Marcel Coetzee. He is slowly building a squad for the future.
30 Sep 2012, 19:38 pm
M Steyn….Spies….
cant see them even coming close to boks again….
They were the handbrakes on Bok team…..
Loved yesterdays performance….and sure Boks will just get better and better…
the Kiwi game will be massive….
European tour will be a chance to gel this outfit even more….
by 2013 we will be ready to make an assault on best team in the world status….
30 Sep 2012, 19:41 pm
HM starting to get it together nicely.
I will be very interested to see the competition when Bissy, Schalk, Pierre, FDP, JP & even maybe Jacques Fourie return.
Could only be a good think for RSA rugby.
30 Sep 2012, 19:54 pm
@I am a stormer-164: No what it says to me is that Flo will be part of his plans for the near to medium future.
Nothing about Brussow.
30 Sep 2012, 19:59 pm
@stormersboy-167:
Flo might even be the next bok captain.
30 Sep 2012, 20:03 pm
@Robzim-168: Could be.
Or Bekker even.
30 Sep 2012, 20:08 pm
@stormersboy-169:
Andries was huge and very influential yesterday.
If he can remain injury free one never knows
30 Sep 2012, 20:11 pm
always a cape town captaincy conspiracy to put you right off rugby.
30 Sep 2012, 20:13 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-171:
So who do you suggest should become the new captain when Jean (also capetonian) becomes a commentator.
30 Sep 2012, 20:15 pm
Greatest SA cricket captain ever is also a capetonian
30 Sep 2012, 20:18 pm
Bekker can be outstanding or poor – the competition between he and Kruger should be interesting. Flo was brilliant, but Brussow should also be in the squad. When bismark and coenie and brussow in squad then you talking about one helluva side. JdJ has also been unfairly overlooked – taute is excellent but he’s a fullback – de Jong is the most penetrative scuthibg centre in SA by a long way – goosen is tge tip of iceberg if de Jong drafted in with hougaard at 9 and Jp on wing – one helluva dangerous backline.
30 Sep 2012, 20:19 pm
@stormersboy-167:
Heyneke has gone on record as saying that he will only bring back a player from overseas if no-one else is available. At the time Brussow had just got injured.
The point I was trying to make is that he is having a re-think on the fetcher role as opposed to having big ball carrying loosies. He seems to more flexible than people give him credit for.
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-171:
Any suggestions why there were so many empty seats at Loftus yesterday? Looks like a lot of the Pretoria faithful are right off rugby already.
30 Sep 2012, 20:21 pm
Forwards been phenomenal In last 2 games. Pack is coming right, bring Bismarck back and they give ABs a pak.
30 Sep 2012, 20:22 pm
@Robzim-172:
louw does not play his rugby in sa and bekker is a walking sicknote who’s ‘finally’ had one good game in a very long time.
suddenly they are springbok captaincy material… (rolling eyes smiley)
i would choose strauss ahead of them any day of the week.
30 Sep 2012, 20:23 pm
@grant10-165: Pierre Spies gaan verDuane
30 Sep 2012, 20:27 pm
@I am a stormer-175:
Flo is more than just a fetcher. He’s also a ball carrier having played at 7 for the Stormers, and bigger than Brussouw as well. In fact I reckon that Flo’s success will entrench HMs opinion of Brussouw.
30 Sep 2012, 20:29 pm
@Robzim-172: Hi Rob, I don’t think Bekker is captaincy material. Let’s hope he gets over his injuries first. I think he managed / alternated the lineout calls very well yesterday: he even took the first ball in front and he used Eben more (wiselly) as well. Alberts took a ball at 2 as well. At least he is starting to think at lineout time.
30 Sep 2012, 20:29 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-177:
Strauss? Which one? The Chabal wannabe or the teddy bear?
Mind you, i would not have minded Dewald potgieter as a bok captain. Pity that he seems to have missed out with all the injuries he suffered and other good loosies around. Very intelligent bloke and solid player who always gives 100+
I am sure they can buy Flo out of the bath contract. He can even buy himself out- as grandson of jan pickard he is certainly loaded.
30 Sep 2012, 20:31 pm
@I am a stormer-175:
terrible to see a bok game with empty seats. i would say a combination of factors such as economic realities, recently poor bok performances, absence of bulls players and so forth all coming together to leave seats empty.
the times… they are a changin’…
30 Sep 2012, 20:32 pm
Gotta be one of the biggest loosetrios ever, 114kg, 119kg and 120kg – and they bladdy mobile too – strange pack they almost gotta be picked with the ordinary tight 5 but still getting counter-rucked too much. Brussow and Bismark make this a v powerful squad / can’t understand how brussow not even in the 30.
30 Sep 2012, 20:34 pm
@CharlesM-180:
Howzit Charles…. Ja , Andries probably carries too much “baggage” and he has the problem with his back as you said.
i was so disappointed with WP yesterday- they just do not seem able to put two good matches together in a row- Do you have any news about possible new signings at no 10 for next year? Based on yesterday i can see why they were not prepared to pay big bucks to retain the Greek, he was flippin ordinary and made butch james look like a superstar in comparison.
30 Sep 2012, 20:35 pm
@Robzim-181:
the hooker, or burger, spies, perhaps ond of the dup’s.
if louw wants the captaincy he will have to play his rugby here.
you are wasting your time with bekker.
30 Sep 2012, 20:37 pm
@cab-183:
Forget about brussow- the days of the garden goblins are over
30 Sep 2012, 20:37 pm
@David-179:
not helping brussows cause is his poor form at the moment.
he’s a shadow if himself.
30 Sep 2012, 20:39 pm
RobbieZ
yeah the size is a must but the bugger is too good to leave out – look at hooper and pocock fantastic players and brussow just as good if not better.
30 Sep 2012, 20:42 pm
@I am a stormer-175: Ja I know what you were saying, but what I was saying is that there isnt a replacement for Flo.
30 Sep 2012, 20:45 pm
@David-179:
That’s exactly the point I was making. HM has now learnt that 3 big ball carrying loosies don’t work. Just shows he is learning.
And he has learnt that there is life after Morne Steyn as well.
30 Sep 2012, 20:45 pm
@cab-188:
Pocock offers more imo – he is true class. Hooper is more like Brussow.
Anyway, i am just happy with the win and quite chuffed that Flo played so well- i am sure if he was not snubbed by the “gifted one’ he would not have moved to bath.
Do you watch any live club rugby in England? i was in Devon and london a week ago and just managed to “escape’ before the big rain came down, lol.
30 Sep 2012, 20:46 pm
@Robzim-184: Province was p#ss poor yes. I’m very disappointed with Holmes – he came back after a week’s suspension and first penalty of the match against him. I hope Elstadt will be fit for the Bulls’ match otherwise we’re in trouble. Our lineouts were very poor: Scarra who was quite accurate earlier in the comp. ,struggled a lot. Steenkamp should have however realised it sooner but kept on calling balls at the back or on himself. And that try scoring pass of the Lions by Steenkamp made me mad.
No news on the flyhalf. Let’s hope they can get Elton. I believe they are going to get some young flyhalves in at this week’s practice: Lleyds (I haven’t seen him at 10 before and can’t comment), another guy Holton perhaps (? – I can’t remember his name / surname) and the youngster many guys have raved about, Tim Swiel. I have only seen a little bit of him and can’t comment either
30 Sep 2012, 20:49 pm
@stormersboy-189: At the moment.
30 Sep 2012, 20:52 pm
@CharlesM-192: Steenkamp almost never calls a ball on anyone else but him. Too predictable.
30 Sep 2012, 20:56 pm
@CharlesM-192:
ja, Steenkamp was bad on Saturday, also knocked a vital ball when WP were in a try scoring position. We got to get a decent flyhalf and hooker backup before super 15 starts, otherwise we can just as well accept we will not get further than semi’s. Otherwise we are fairly well covered- i believe Nic Koster made a comeback for UCT this weekend, maybe he can at least be moved to the bench for the bulls game. Holmes is a good Vodacom cup player at most.
30 Sep 2012, 20:59 pm
@stormersboy-194:
He is only a journeyman, slightly worse than his blue bull brother.
30 Sep 2012, 21:04 pm
@I am a stormer-190:
I wouldn’t put money on Morne being left out against the ABs. Just hope I’m wrong. This is the last match of the Championship, so HMs argument that Morne needs a break and would have to play CC if he wasn’t in the Bok squad is suspicious.
30 Sep 2012, 21:05 pm
Alberts is good, but should play off the bench as an impact player that covers lock and loose trio. Our loose trio should be:
6. Brussouw
7. Flo
8. Duane
Schalk does complicate things a little when/if he returns, in a good way.
30 Sep 2012, 21:08 pm
RobZ – not really, but I think it would be quite nice to get into, they are packed out most weekends over here. Yeah summer just been non-stop rain but last winter pretty mild – u sure as hell don’t come to Europe for the weather.
30 Sep 2012, 21:09 pm
@Robzim-196: Agreed. Not a star, but can fill a gap here and there at super rugby level. Really would like to get that big no 4 back that went overseas, He’ll be back for next years Super Comp won’t he?
30 Sep 2012, 21:40 pm
louw turned in the best performance.
simply awesome.
If anything, his inclusion ahead of brussow settles any screams for brussouws inclusion currently.
Decent performance allround really, we can definately step it up a gear and become more clinical.
Just as an afterthought, why does Jannie Dup always seem to be the one that gets the chop in bloggers imaginary teamsheets? He had a very decent performance yesterday significantly more value than the beest. And Jannie is only 24 if the teamsheets were correct. He will become a bok tighthead legend if that is the case.
biggest dissappointment yesterday was the Argies choosing that game to unveil their new expansive approach. Was it because they were not playing in Mendoza on a pitch with limited width?
bladdy nutjobs.
Or was Ted involved in this.
Why would they not just have stuck to their armwrestling approach, I genuinely felt they would have had a shot.
But of course, trust a kakky SA ref like Piper to be the only oke to have the bollocks to blow the Argies at the breakdow as well.
30 Sep 2012, 21:40 pm
@stormersboy-200: Quinn Roux ? Yes I hope he’ll return and that the WP top brass didn’t feed us BS about him returning (and then opting to stay there). He should definitely be back – solid, hard worker, good in the lineout and aggressive as well
30 Sep 2012, 21:42 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-201: Agreed on Jannie. He played fine.
Wouldn’t mess with the front row at the moment.
Or any of the forwards. Bench or run on team.
30 Sep 2012, 21:44 pm
@stormersboy-203:
can’t help but laugh at you boys that think the likes of spies,etc are just going to roll over and play dead.
be careful, bulls generally always come back strong after dissappointment.
30 Sep 2012, 21:46 pm
@CharlesM-202: That’s the man, really hope he comes back.
If he does we’ll have 3 good no 4 locks (Eben, Quinn and Elstadt) and only one class 5 (Bekker obviously).
In the interests of rotation and injury cover Eben may have to run out with 5 on his back a game or 2.
Elstadt is primarily a 7 I know, it’s obviously just nice to have him as 4 cover if needed.
We also have that Bulls lock we signed at 5, but I’m not sure if he is able to make the step up (yet).
30 Sep 2012, 21:46 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-201: No I think he made his debut for the Boks at the age of 24. I think Jannie was born in 1982 – that will make him 30 this year. I don’t know if it is correct but seeing that he is a qualified doctor, which will add 7 years (internship included) already – and he has qualified quite a number of years ago – he can’t be 24 IMO
30 Sep 2012, 21:48 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-204: You can laugh all you like, but I’d like to know when I said that or gave you the impression that I did?
30 Sep 2012, 21:48 pm
Well let’s see what an AB a side is like as oppose to Ozzie b side first. I reckon NZ prob shade it without Bismarck there, but the Bok backrow is awesome at the moment.
30 Sep 2012, 21:49 pm
@stormersboy-205: Yes Eben can stand in at 5 from time to time – he sure is tall enough and he has played there as schoolboy. It seems that Elstadt should stay at 7, depending on guys returning from injury (or not, e.g. Schalk)
30 Sep 2012, 21:49 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-204: And apart from Spies, who is the etc that you are referring to?
Naas Botha?
30 Sep 2012, 21:51 pm
@CharlesM-209: Roux made the move I think because of the number of 4 locks Province had at the time: remember Elstadt was used as lock primarily before all the injuries to the loosies
30 Sep 2012, 21:52 pm
@CharlesM-209: Ja as it stands we’ll have a first choice combo of Duanne, Elstadt and Kolisi as starters with guys like Koster and then the rest.
Not convinced that Schalk (or Carr) will be back
30 Sep 2012, 21:52 pm
If u think spies got anything on vermeulen you got ricks in the head – what’s changed between a team that drew to argy is that vermeulen and louw were picked and alberts and beast jo longer fighting a lone battle. Start spies or potgieter or even Coetzee behind that tight 5 and you’ll have same problems again.
30 Sep 2012, 21:56 pm
Bulls craven week flyhalf heading for Provine, seemsfair swop for Pollard. May not be ready for next year but as talented as Jamtjies, Goosen and Pollard. Still like tosee Lambie at FH for Boks. 2 or 3 years ago showed immense composure and flair. Remember his try under posts after bumping off Schalk and his demolition of Bulls same seaon? I’m a Bull and it hurt. Deserves opportunity
30 Sep 2012, 21:56 pm
The fact is, Pierre’s finger isn’t healing as anticipated so he will miss the end of year tour, so the earliest that he will be in contention for another Bok cap is next year June? So for now he’s not even remotely relevant to this discussion.
30 Sep 2012, 22:01 pm
The bloubul sharks bias is dwindling, and it’s for the better, first potgieter went to make way for vermeulen, then Coetzee for flo, then morne for goosen – hell who knows by 2015 we might even have the best players in SA actually selected for the Springbokke..
30 Sep 2012, 22:19 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-204:
Nothing like healthy competition for places, but like most of us we dont think Spies and Potgieter are any good, or steyn
Remember Spies had been playing behind a good tight five including Bakkies and Victor and was dragged along with them and had some decent 6s and 7s
Now they are gone its a different bulls pack Add to that players like Greyling and potgieter (who is all brawn and no brain) the results show for themselves
These 4 players should not be considered for a bok team unless they show some brilliance (which they have yet to do)
Spies
Greyling
Potgieter
Steyn
Kirshner needs to continue to have solid games or he will lose out to either lambie or taute
Kruger needs to step up when on the field so he is to be watched
Flip has stepped up recently to give him credit
30 Sep 2012, 22:20 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-204:
I am lesbian and I am proud to be. You mus come out of the closet and give Spies a call. He will never play Bokke again. He is available for your worship.
30 Sep 2012, 22:22 pm
@KeurboomPark-218: lol
30 Sep 2012, 22:23 pm
@cab-216:
Good one Cab Love it
30 Sep 2012, 22:41 pm
yip old bloubevok meyer is starting to get things right by default.. or by some little birdy by the name Mallet whispering sweet words of comforting wisdom in his blundering blou gebliksemed ears
First Spies pulls a plumb out his thumb… then Potgieter goes thank the blue heavens.. then Kanko fcks off and Daniel is dropped and Coetsee gets planted on the bench
Louw and Vermeulen actually saves the entire ship from going belly up and Bekker gets a new lease of life from out of left field with his old pals Vermeulen and Louw rooting for him sterk…
No place for Schalk he’s as past tense as inspector clueso on the midnight express..
He slowly getting the combo’s right.. BUT he still fck’d up on Saturday..
Hougaard must go back to scrumhalf and Goosen must take charge of the back line not Pienaar.. Jantjies must back up off bench and if things going pear shaped or Goosen gets damaged Jantjies must come on earlier.. Pienaar to bench to cover for Hougaard and utility back with Lambie
Taute to 15 or 14
JdV 13, De Jongh 12
Habana back to 11
Goosen 10, Hougaard 9
bench : Pienaar, Jantjies, Lambie .. Frans Steyn is not the answer in the midfield either.. so either Steyn to 15 Taute to 14 or drop Steyn to bench.. him or Lambie.
If they think that Kirchner and Pienaar going to pull it off again vs AB’s they not the same kettle of fish as a disenchanted decimated Oz side reeling with injuries
1 Oct 2012, 00:24 am
The Boks has the advantage on Saturday, simply the mass ratio against a light weight ABs and a sound half back combo will do the job
The role of the Test referee cannot be overstated too
The luxury of having 3 midgets on the bench may not repeat itself, it also should serve as a clear indication that HM and his staff were well informed of the situation in advance
1 Oct 2012, 00:47 am
@Hondo-222:
you mean the boks didnt have the better “mass ratio” in Dunedin?
have the ABs ever beaten a Bok side with a bigger pack before?
just stick to your racism mate, at least then we know you have some expertise in the area..
1 Oct 2012, 00:58 am
@brigadier-201: The river del plate is a soccer stadium, so the pitch was narrow an also probably short. So there goes your threory that the Mendoza stadium was somehow harder on the boks!
Yesterday the AB’s played with a level of pace and precision that no side would have lived with. Unfortunately the ABs don’t manage to do this every game, but credit where it is due please.
Probably the biggest factor facing the argues was fatigue. They have played 3 very hard games on the road in short succession, with horrendous travel and, let’s face it, limited depth to draw on to share the load around as the AB’s and the boks can do. They just seemed to lack the urgency they showed in NZ, which is a shame but they have still performed blardy well overall.
1 Oct 2012, 01:01 am
@hondo222: keep on thinking size wins rugby tests please. And voila, the AB’s winning ratio over the boks will continue to improve as it has consistently done since 1992!
I can’t remember the last time the AB’s fielded a bigger pack than the boks…..
1 Oct 2012, 01:58 am
@corporal punishment-225:
32 to 14 since 1992..
but the new world order is upon us, just like in 2009
looking forward to a brutal, uncompromising and exhilarating test match next weekend… can we make it 16 straight? we have a good chance to if we can replicate the pace we played at yesterday..
1 Oct 2012, 03:14 am
@poppa 226 I dearly hope we can make it 16, then go on to take the outright record. Beyond that, I would dearly love a 100% record this season. Although we have come agonisingly close about 3 or 4 times, we haven’t achieved that feat since (I think) 1988 or 89?
Unfortunately, it is usually these dead rubber away matches that trip us up. Add to that we are travelling from a physical match in Argentina, and the Bok side is starting to gel, I would only rate out chances as 40/60 (whereas if it was at home with the RC at stake I would say 70/30).
What do you think of the Bok side now? My feeling is they are gelling into a good side. Very strong back row, talent at lock and no10 (goosen and janties), and habana is back to top world class form. I think this is the strongest team the AB’s will play this year.
I think the Ab’s have the edge in the experience of our tight 5. Captain and in fan carter, plus we have more strike weapons in the back line. Still, fast forward a couple of years with us losing some older players and the boks become more experienced, I can see the boks challenging for the no1 mantle.
1 Oct 2012, 04:03 am
Captain
can’t disagree with your statement, the boks are always our toughest opposition regardless of form. we too have some good youngsters, Romano, Cane, Retallick, Cruden etc. coming through. we will struggle losing McCaw and carter, but in Barrett I think we have another genuine decent 1st five.
interesting times ahead for sure
50/50 into this weekend for me, AB forwards know they were out played and will want a much better showing imo.
1 Oct 2012, 04:15 am
Pops, yep, if the all blacks forwards want to prove a point after getting pushed around in Dunedin, it will be a cracking game. I wish we could maul properly, like the boks. It would be sweet to see us set up a maul early in the Bok 22, and maul over for a try. Would that be sweet.
1 Oct 2012, 04:34 am
@corporal punishment-229:
Like you corporal, I’m quite fond of the aesthetics of a good driving maul, alas it is an art form that seems forgotten here in Nz. Yes it would be sweet if Abs were to trample Bok on way to tryline with a rolling maul.
1 Oct 2012, 04:44 am
@Te Rangatira-230: the rolling maul is easily countered through illegal tactics. I would much rather see the awesome All Black backline run the Bok backs ragged with their blistering speed and unique skills. The Bok backs are big, old and tired looking and they clearly lack outright pace ala Savea, Dagg, etc.
1 Oct 2012, 04:59 am
@corporal punishment-229: @Te Rangatira-230: @kwas-231: not a fan of the maul myself, I see it as legalised obstruction…surely the ball carrier shouldnt be able to hide behind a pack of bodies? how does that ensure a fair contest for possession? I know I’ll probably be in the minority but thats how I see it..
1 Oct 2012, 05:27 am
@poppa69-232:
When I see the Bok trying to form the maul, a feeling of dread seems to come over me and I start yelling for someone to get in there and try to collapse it, legally of course. I just accept the practice of the driving maul as part and parcel of the game, but yes when I see a head pop up with ball tucked under a arm from behind a phalanx of behemoths trudging up the field, its beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder.
1 Oct 2012, 06:37 am
This weekend has been seriously dangerous on my health, but bakgat on my mind. Bring it on, Richie! I still have the legs to squeeze you
1 Oct 2012, 07:18 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-201:
i think you just answered your own question there.
the argies decided to go wide because they read the ref for the match and were playing to his interpretations.
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