Integrate; don’t exterminate
1 Oct 2012
MARK KEOHANE, in Business Day newspaper, writes that 15 players get to start but 30 will be needed to make the Boks the best in the business by 2015.
Remember when Bryan Habana got jeered in Bloemfontein? That very same day when Springbok rugby supporters unanimously declared it was time to move on from the player and those social media gurus who so generously and confidently offer all the solutions to South African rugby agreed that the majority of Currie Cup wingers were an improvement on Habana.
The abuse was disgraceful. The immaturity was equally alarming.
Never forget how easily so many were willing to discard the world-class qualities of the player voted the world’s best in 2007.
Remember that day because it is the evil that continues to torment any Bok coach and any search for a winning habit and not a one-off winning high.
Now remember Saturday’s demolition of the Wallabies in Pretoria because it provided confirmation that the Boks can play rugby as good as any out there and that they have a coach who doesn’t embrace provincial bias, racism or rugby from an era believed to be outdated.
The Boks played fantastic rugby against Australia, sustained the intensity throughout and delighted South Africans with the quality of the performance.
Habana was sensational in all aspects of his game.
Bloemfontein wasn’t so long ago ladies and gentlemen.
It really is time South Africa’s rugby public matured in how it viewed the Springboks, in defeat and in victory and that debate does not mean despair and that criticism of a performance does not come with a condition of immediate change and that no Test match is a matter of life and death and that one victory does not provide an all consuming answer and that one defeat does not define the future of the game.
Perspective should be the ally of passion.
Being irrational, being emotional and being stupid does not constitute passion.
There will always rightly be an expectation that the Boks can beat any team at home. It does not mean they will. Similarly there is always an excuse when the Boks lose away from home when the expectation should be that in terms of quality of player the potential for winning away from home is not a romantic notion but something very tangible.
The game has evolved and the consistency to be good enough to win regularly cannot be the responsibility of 15 players believed to be the best national starting XV.
There has to be an acceptance very good South African players have chosen a career path overseas. It isn’t a crime and these players shouldn’t be treated with disdain.
In fact it allows for new players to regularly emerge in our domestic competitions. It improves the potential of what can be produced as a national squad of 30. The new don’t queue unnecessarily and the tried and tested tend to evolve as people because of the overseas experience, improve as players and many don’t play for their country when actually at the peak of their game.
I am going to resist mentioning names because that immediately dominates what is essentially a principle that age and geographics should never be a consideration. All that should be asked is if the player is good enough; not to start against the All Blacks on Saturday, by way of the most pressing Bok challenge, but to start at any time between now and 2015’s World Cup.
There is no logic to making singular investments. The nature of the sport means that the hero of Saturday could twist his knee this week and never play again. Then what?
Youth always brings enthusiasm to any squad. Equally experience brings calm and confidence. Champion teams never have one or the other component. The teams who win consistently over a period of time never chose one as being more important than the other.
There is evolution and not revolution in selections. There is a phasing in and a phasing out and there is mentorship and realism that one victory does not make a summer and one performance does not make a legend.
Do your own exercise. Look at the qualities of every player available to South Africa, in this country and abroad. Look at how good the player is and not how old the player is. Find two players in each position you believe are good enough to start a World Cup final in 2015.
What should be celebrated this morning is that our national player base is capable of producing 30 players of similar pedigree and they aren’t all playing in South Africa.
That should not be confused with enjoying what was a wonderful Bok performance against Australia.
The game has evolved. So too should the attitude of the supporter, the media and the administrator. One off wins must be enjoyed but it should never be seen as a guarantee that one era starts and another ends or that one player stays and another is never allowed back.
The search has to be for 30 players capable of starting a World Cup final in 2015 and not the preferred identity of 15 we hope make it to that final in 2015.
136 Comments
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1 Oct 2012, 15:20 pm
@rangerman-99: 1989… thats all i’ll say
1 Oct 2012, 15:20 pm
@papaown-96: Poor call, he should go to WP as grant is never going to make Boks ..
1 Oct 2012, 15:22 pm
@papaown-101: ?
you lost me bud.
1 Oct 2012, 15:24 pm
@Doughnut-98: my point is..we dont NEED any of the players as we have enough to produce a competitive team if we select the correct combinations.
There’s no shame in having a player like Schalk on bench or even playing him and having Alberts on bench etc. its about 30 mean and a match day 22 that will do the most damage to the opposition on the day.
No player makes the team but we have enough quality to truly dominate the game or at least not lose to the likes of Scotland or put the All Blacks away when we have a similar opportunity to what was presented in Dunedin 3 weeks ago
1 Oct 2012, 15:25 pm
@rangerman-82: i don’t know why some here are trying to claim that habana got back his form because 2 different coaches persisted playing him even when he was OFF FORM!
habana has had reams of column space in SA Rugby magazine talking about getting “his mojo back” and “answering his critics” etc! it is neither fickle not short-sighted for Bok fans to demand excellence from every Bok player on the park!
Keo if i PAY R450/500 to watch a Test match, F.UCK if i will accept MEDIOCRITY! the coach can rotate, manage, coach-back-to-form, mollycoddle whoever he wants but he must know that when those players get on the field i EXPECT them to WIN!
1 Oct 2012, 15:25 pm
I doubt whether Keo is suggesting persisting with out of form players, just not discarding them totally. Look at how the ABs have chopped and changed players over the years without relegating them to the scrap heap.. As for keeping them all in the 30 man squad, that’s unrealistic. Give a player a run for the Boks if he seems good enough, and if he isn’t up to it or has a loss of form, let him develop further in the S15. At least we’d know where our genuine depth lay if we need it.
1 Oct 2012, 15:27 pm
@rangerman-103: 1989… that was the last time i was wrong
1 Oct 2012, 15:27 pm
@Transformation-105: exactly bud.
this rant is just a load of k uk.
we must grow up and accept mediocrity is keos refrain.
1 Oct 2012, 15:27 pm
@Transformation-105:
That may just wake SARU up.
Are you suggesting that if the Boks don’t win, you’d want your money back?
1 Oct 2012, 15:35 pm
@ryecatcher-60: @ryecatcher-60: The NZ A & B team being of equal value is a myth from a few years back when Henry fielded different 15s against Wales and Ireland and whipped them both. If we were like the Wallabies are now, down to their fourth choice captain and finishing the game with only 14 players because of injury (and some strange refereeing) the Boks would’ve whipped us too. I didn’t even recognise some of the players! Not watching enough Force/Rebels games I guess
@YoMama-77: By your logic McCaw better watch out for flying elbows again
1 Oct 2012, 15:44 pm
@David-109: not at all…just that we mustn’t be taken for granted!
new zealanders discard people too lauaki, eaton, ross, donald, delaney, boric, so’oialo, ranger, masaga etc.
1 Oct 2012, 16:28 pm
Keo if you saying people should not have strong emotions towards a team they spend thousands of Rands on then you are smoking a combination of socks and draws. People should vent. People are also right in not accepting mediocraty. Its these fans that make rugby profitable. So let them demand what they think is right.
1 Oct 2012, 16:50 pm
Damn it, Keo ! Do all you guys on this blog only think in terms of WC ? We can will all the WC from 2015 to Armageddon, the ABs will still be regarded as the world’s best team if they keep winning most of the tests in between ! What we want is a team that is consistent, not some king of Halley comet.
1 Oct 2012, 17:01 pm
@Transformation-111: Agree with your point. Just to make sure Boric’s reputation isn’t sullied though, he is recovering from back surgery and will be out for six months. Otherwise, I’m sure he’d be in the squad.
And Lauaki’s career was always going to be short lived after his massive fend on McCaw in 2007. In some of my darkest moments, i’ve decided that his fend and chip kick that killed the Crusaders’ season, indirectly led to the Bulls winning the comp and SA kicking on to win the world cup. It probably also led to Meyer’s appointment. Talk about a butterfly effect.
Lauaki’s problems with alcohol and violence may have also led to him being dropped but hey, the fend is more fun to remember
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJZa4ZIyItc
1 Oct 2012, 17:12 pm
@gonzo-114: jimmy cowan had as many booze-fuelled misdemeanours as sione…
1 Oct 2012, 18:22 pm
Tos man Keo. Answer me this….
Oppose to = ot
What is the point of having talented youths for example like Jordaan/JDJ (ot JDV), Rhule (ot Habana), Jantjies (ot MS), Coetzee (ot Kirchner), Lambie (ot MS/Kirchner), Stander (ot Spies) etc. if they dont get to play for the boks at an early stage to gain experience and consequently become a great settled squad?
There’s always talk of a balance between youth and experience… After one or two seasons together a group of 30 young players will have enough experience to keep the continuity and success of the team going. And wouldnt you know it, if they start early most of them will still be young enough to play together for many years as a settled team…
Besides you will never have a group of 30 with just a bunch of young players. These days, due to the amount of rugby being played, a bok squad should not have too much ‘experience’…
These days a bok should never reach 100 test caps… Matfield, Smit, FdP all played far too much games than they deserved to play…when considering the ‘name’ players’ form and age players like Pienaar, Bekker and Bismark all had to take a back seat when they were in their prime (Bis still the Business though)…
And using Habana as an excuse not to let youngsters play is crrap… If Habana was dropped a year ago or two ago, who is to say his replacement would not have started a brilliant test career we would all be raving on about now…? Marcel Coetzee is a perfect example of how youth made the step up and replaced ‘experience’ (Burger) without weakening the team…
I say exterminate players like JDV and Kirschner if the coach can pick youngsters who deserve to prove themselves. If youre good enough youre old enough..Fukc integration. Gain the experience together and become great together.
IMO
1 Oct 2012, 18:22 pm
@gonzo-114: Boric sounds like the
baddie in a Bond movie.
1 Oct 2012, 18:32 pm
@Transformation-111:
Come now you can do much better research than that…
Jason Eaton, 17 caps, 10 as a sub
Lauaki, 17 caps, 11 as a sub
Ross, 8 caps in their worst year in recent memory (2009)
Donald, 23 caps, 15 as a sub
Delaney, 1 cap, against Italy…
Boric, 24 caps, 17 as a sub
Ranger, 3 caps, to as a sub
Masaga, 1 cap, against Italy.
So’oialo had a long and distinguished career which started in 2002 captaining the All Blacks at times in Richie McCaw’s absence. With Collins and McCaw, they were regarded as the best loosie combo in the world for many years. Injuries took its toll on him together with the fact that Kieran Read emerged in 2008/09 – 6 years after So’oialo made his debut. Injuries meant the end of his career.
So with the exception of Rodney, who was 30 when he played his last test, none of the players you mentioned are in the class or with the level of experience and records with the two Bok players in question here, Habana and Steyn.
You are slipping, throwing names around are not always impressive.
1 Oct 2012, 18:57 pm
Uhh this article is buggered. It is entirely within the supporters “rights” to expect a player that under performs for a long period of time to be dropped. Just like they jeered Ruan Pienaar and now Morne Steyn.
The only idiocy that the supporters need to mature from is this Plan A, Plan B rubbish that they keep on repeating.
1 Oct 2012, 20:03 pm
@PissAnt-118: ooh hoo…what about sivivatu who was DROPPED last year after 45 tests & @ 29 for a centre like kahui?
rocokocoko? dropped & he is 29
these okes are of the SAME pedigree as habana & far much more classier than one-dimensional steyn but they were LET GO when their form became inconsistent!
1 Oct 2012, 20:06 pm
@PissAnt-118: throwing names my arse…those two wings were dropped for a fullback & wing…
1 Oct 2012, 20:07 pm
fullback & centre.
1 Oct 2012, 20:46 pm
@Transformation-120:
Sivi? Injuries. In fact, such was the faith in Sivi that he was selected on the EOYT for 2010 even though he was injured for much of the season.
In 2011 his injuries included another shoulder injury (which kept him out for much of 2010 when he had shoulder reconstruction), a knee injury, a hamstring injury and a fractured eye-socket.
Henry even admitted in 2011 that Sivi proved his worth after he (Henry) thought he was past his sell-by date and the then the eye-injury happened before the PE test against the Boks (the last before the RWC).
Joe made his debut in 2003, even though he lost form the AB’s stuck with him allowing his to regains form even though he seemed to lose it all by 2005 – he did however regain that form and went to the RWC in 2007. His form was again up and down through the period 2008 to 2010 even in the face of many other talented wings coming through.
For a player that ‘lost his form’ in 2005 already but managed to pay his last test in 2010, five years later, shows you just how much the AB’s stuck with ‘an out of form player’
1 Oct 2012, 21:22 pm
But I am tired and bored.
Later.
1 Oct 2012, 21:26 pm
@PissAnt-123: ag please man i’m not advocating for players to WRITTEN OFF i’m saying when a guy is off form he can be dropped like joe rokocoko was dropped by henry for the 2009 eoyt after being ‘exposed’ by Bok high bombs in the tri-nations, henry picked jane, sivi & mils as his back three joe had to gain his form at the Blues & NOT in an all black jersey!
“coaching players back to form” while they negatively affect the Boks results is nonsensical!
JPP in 2008 slumped in super rugby after being the leading try-score in ’07 pdv said he will recondition him and jpp only saw game time in europe in NOVEMBER!
clear?
1 Oct 2012, 21:28 pm
nobody asked you to engage so you being bored is your own problem…deal with it.
1 Oct 2012, 21:39 pm
@Transformation-125:
In 2008 JPP was back against the All Blacks in Dunedin already, only missing the demolition of the Aussies in JHB otherwise playing every single test since the 3N tour that year.
Joe was dropped BEFORE the 2009 EOYT after completing the full 3N in 2009. He was back for the incoming tours of 2010, the 3N and the EOYT that year.
Like I said, you’re slipping.
FACT is, your idea of form, or that of any supporter is a far cry off from what the coaches know and think. Even with the All Blacks.
1 Oct 2012, 21:40 pm
@Transformation-126:
Yes my fault, don’t know why I engaged in this when its clear your facts are screwed up.
Gone.
1 Oct 2012, 22:42 pm
@PissAnt-127: you must be drunk!
“Joe was dropped BEFORE the 2009 EOYT after completing the full 3N in 2009. He was back for the incoming tours of 2010, the 3N and the EOYT that year.
Like I said, you’re slipping.”
didn’t i say he was dropped after a dismal tri-nations where he was “exposed” by Bok high bombs?
he was actually eager to play the aussies because as he said “they like to play with width”
in 2010 the rules had been changed duh…
yes, you’re a know-it-all pissant, you’re not slipping
1 Oct 2012, 23:01 pm
Oops, misread that one line.
Is that your standard response? You must be drunk? What should I assume about you then? Just stupidity? Ignorance?
No alcohol but I am rather tired.
Funny how you latch onto one error I made when reading your posts but fail to respond to any other…
And what the hell has law changes got to do with anything? He was persisted with since 2005 when ‘he lost form’ and even after being dropped in in 2009 for one tour he was back in 2010 for all the tours and competitions.
Never claimed I was a know-it-all, but with so many factual errors and assumptions on your part stated as fact just throwing names about it does seem that I do appreciate context a whole lot more than you do.
But don’t let that stop you, I have little to nothing lined up for tomorrow, so please continue to throw names around.
2 Oct 2012, 00:35 am
@PissAnt-130: i should then assume “you are slipping” is your standard response too?
just know any dismissive, sarcastic nonsense from you will be returned with equal contempt however highly you think of yourself.
“latch on to one error”? go to sleep man…
you agree with keo that out of form players must be played back to form in a bok jersey and i disagree! no need get huffy ffs!
2 Oct 2012, 00:43 am
@PissAnt-130: maybe you should’ve read the following line carefully too before you engaged…
“Being irrational, being emotional and being stupid does not constitute passion.”
2 Oct 2012, 04:14 am
I do think that SA coaches are too conservative, sticking with tried and trusted. If a player is in eth form of his life, give him a chance to start, and show what he is capable of. It keeps teh incumbent on his toes knowing that starting is not a given.
2 Oct 2012, 07:14 am
Looking too far as usual
lets take it game by game
am suprise Keo never entered coaching
2 Oct 2012, 08:35 am
@Transformation-132:
Seems you again fail to get the point sunshine. You are slipping because your research is pretty good most of the time.
90% of the names you mentioned have not started even 10 tests. Those who did was discussed at length.
Let me break it down for you…
ANY coach will stick with an experienced player for as long as possible even if he is perceived by the public and media to be out of form – that includes the All Blacks.
Sometimes they make a great comeback, sometimes they don’t.
2 Oct 2012, 14:59 pm
Get serious – habana was at one stage sonout of form (and I thought he was one of the worlds best at one stage) that every single one of the opposition teams even at s15 level were actually targetting his week.
This is one area where meyer has made a massive career resurrection and one selection he has got spot on but he’s got a whole host of others spot wrong.
In fact if he had listened to these selfsame passionate/stupid fans from the get-go we would have drawn to Argie and lost to oz – and he’s still not learnt his lesson by picking bulletjies who have won nothing and ge will continue to be exposed with such mediocre selections.
Morne is another case in point, I hve had faith until the cows come home but if bad form persists the player must be dropped to recover his form, you don’t keep persisting with a player particularly where u have someone like goosen kicking down tge door – that is real stupidity personified and conservatism uitgeknip.
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