Integrate; don’t exterminate
1 Oct 2012
MARK KEOHANE, in Business Day newspaper, writes that 15 players get to start but 30 will be needed to make the Boks the best in the business by 2015.
Remember when Bryan Habana got jeered in Bloemfontein? That very same day when Springbok rugby supporters unanimously declared it was time to move on from the player and those social media gurus who so generously and confidently offer all the solutions to South African rugby agreed that the majority of Currie Cup wingers were an improvement on Habana.
The abuse was disgraceful. The immaturity was equally alarming.
Never forget how easily so many were willing to discard the world-class qualities of the player voted the world’s best in 2007.
Remember that day because it is the evil that continues to torment any Bok coach and any search for a winning habit and not a one-off winning high.
Now remember Saturday’s demolition of the Wallabies in Pretoria because it provided confirmation that the Boks can play rugby as good as any out there and that they have a coach who doesn’t embrace provincial bias, racism or rugby from an era believed to be outdated.
The Boks played fantastic rugby against Australia, sustained the intensity throughout and delighted South Africans with the quality of the performance.
Habana was sensational in all aspects of his game.
Bloemfontein wasn’t so long ago ladies and gentlemen.
It really is time South Africa’s rugby public matured in how it viewed the Springboks, in defeat and in victory and that debate does not mean despair and that criticism of a performance does not come with a condition of immediate change and that no Test match is a matter of life and death and that one victory does not provide an all consuming answer and that one defeat does not define the future of the game.
Perspective should be the ally of passion.
Being irrational, being emotional and being stupid does not constitute passion.
There will always rightly be an expectation that the Boks can beat any team at home. It does not mean they will. Similarly there is always an excuse when the Boks lose away from home when the expectation should be that in terms of quality of player the potential for winning away from home is not a romantic notion but something very tangible.
The game has evolved and the consistency to be good enough to win regularly cannot be the responsibility of 15 players believed to be the best national starting XV.
There has to be an acceptance very good South African players have chosen a career path overseas. It isn’t a crime and these players shouldn’t be treated with disdain.
In fact it allows for new players to regularly emerge in our domestic competitions. It improves the potential of what can be produced as a national squad of 30. The new don’t queue unnecessarily and the tried and tested tend to evolve as people because of the overseas experience, improve as players and many don’t play for their country when actually at the peak of their game.
I am going to resist mentioning names because that immediately dominates what is essentially a principle that age and geographics should never be a consideration. All that should be asked is if the player is good enough; not to start against the All Blacks on Saturday, by way of the most pressing Bok challenge, but to start at any time between now and 2015’s World Cup.
There is no logic to making singular investments. The nature of the sport means that the hero of Saturday could twist his knee this week and never play again. Then what?
Youth always brings enthusiasm to any squad. Equally experience brings calm and confidence. Champion teams never have one or the other component. The teams who win consistently over a period of time never chose one as being more important than the other.
There is evolution and not revolution in selections. There is a phasing in and a phasing out and there is mentorship and realism that one victory does not make a summer and one performance does not make a legend.
Do your own exercise. Look at the qualities of every player available to South Africa, in this country and abroad. Look at how good the player is and not how old the player is. Find two players in each position you believe are good enough to start a World Cup final in 2015.
What should be celebrated this morning is that our national player base is capable of producing 30 players of similar pedigree and they aren’t all playing in South Africa.
That should not be confused with enjoying what was a wonderful Bok performance against Australia.
The game has evolved. So too should the attitude of the supporter, the media and the administrator. One off wins must be enjoyed but it should never be seen as a guarantee that one era starts and another ends or that one player stays and another is never allowed back.
The search has to be for 30 players capable of starting a World Cup final in 2015 and not the preferred identity of 15 we hope make it to that final in 2015.
136 Comments
Pages: [1] 2 3 » Show All
1 Oct 2012, 12:17 pm
30Dragons
1 Oct 2012, 12:20 pm
On a more sober note, the SA rugby fanatics(read supporters) will never be able remove provincial and ridiculously lofty expectations.
1 Oct 2012, 12:21 pm
@Oliekrokenoster-2: meant to say provincial bias
1 Oct 2012, 12:24 pm
Keo are you suggesting Meyer needs to build depth and therefore we shouldn’t judge him if Goosen implodes against the ABs? Perhaps we should judge him at the World Cup?
1 Oct 2012, 12:27 pm
on another note i see money bill has been apologising to his fans for playing so k uk in japan.
he probably meant the apology for his agent.
1 Oct 2012, 12:30 pm
“15 players get to start but 30 will be needed to make the Boks the best in the business by 2015.”
Pfffffft another one advocating a 4 year plan towards 2015. Stuff that I demand 30 capable players now and a 80% win ratio from now until Heineken’s last day of his contract.
No way in hell that an everage 15 like Kirchner should be playing test rugby for the Boks when we have players with x factor like Le Roux and Coetzee ready to step up. There are more that deserve the chop like oupa JDV and the literally broke back Bekker and the less than impressive Pienaar. Pull in u20′s if you must, players like Serfontien and Botha can do no worse than some of these so called name players.
1 Oct 2012, 12:31 pm
i am not sure what keos rant is trying to say?
is he saying that we should accept mediocre seasons from players because they performed in the past?
f u u u u u u u k that.
morne got dropped for being woeful, goosen did very well.
if morne is playing better than goose in the future then we will have two experienced players to choose from.
thats a far better scenario imo.
but i agree on the booing of players, they dont select themselves.
1 Oct 2012, 12:33 pm
15 Lambie, Taute
14 JP, Hougaard
13 J Fourie, JdJ
12 Steyn, JdV
11 Habana, Rhule
10 Goosen, Jaintjies
9 Pienaar, Du Preez
8 Vermuelen, Kanko
7 Alberts, Coetzee
6 Louw, Brussouw
5 Bekker, Kruger
4 Eben, Flip
3 J Dup, Coenie
2 B Dub, Strauss
1 Beast, Gurthro
1 Oct 2012, 12:41 pm
@RL-6: Pity that the Bulls does not trust the youngsters. Arno Botha is the future Bulls number 8 and could be Vermeulen’s understudy next year, but Frans Ludeke will not pick Botha ahead of Spies. Same with Serfontein. Venter is also a very good player, but the flyhalves at Loftus does not help the development of the young centres. If they do not make changes to their gameplan and players I hope another union buys these youngsters as I want them to develop into World Class Springboks. At this stage Venter will be branded as another Olivier, but Venter is only playing according to a gameplan.
1 Oct 2012, 12:46 pm
Jammer.
Habana must go.
Finish n klaar.
Hy het nie wiele nog nie. He has no spoed left.
He werk soos a diesel donner, but he must go now.
Habana please resign.
Had a good test, maar remember the sun even shines on a dobermans asss once in a blue moon…….
1 Oct 2012, 12:47 pm
@John Galt-8:
Nice.
Realistically though I think you need 3 tighthead props in any 30-man squad. I realize Divvy didn’t, and you can get away with it, but especially when you’ve got someone like Coenie who’s still learning in the position you probably need another specialist in there. Pat Cilliers over Gurthro.
Plus Schalk Burger is our best blindside
When fit of course.
1 Oct 2012, 12:48 pm
@Horings-9: if you are good enough you are old enough – Estebeth, Taute and Goosen all u21 eligable and are performing better than oupa’s.
1 Oct 2012, 12:51 pm
@Horings-9: Arno Botha is a gem of a player…..but I fear he might end up on the same bus as CJ Stander if Spies is continously selected above all others.
I wish Ludeke, Meyer, P Divvy or in fact, anyone on the planet could tell me just what it is Spies has that makes it impossible to drop him, EVER?
Spies, Potgieter guaranteed starters for the Bulls next year, leaving Botha either on the bench or having to play 6?
I would love to hear something other than, “he is a magnificent physical specimen”, “he is a magnificent athlete”, “he can bench press 3 old ladies and a dominee holding a rottweiler with ONE hand”.
Wish someone could share with me, their observations as to why Spies is a MUST START in everyfuckingteam.
1 Oct 2012, 12:51 pm
@PielNeus-10:
Agenda.
@Horings-9:
Good call. Arno just needs a bit of backing. Few games in a row will do him the world of good. To be fair though, he was injured which cost him a starting position.
He’s only had the 1 game off the bench to go with 3 starts for the Bulls so far this Currie Cup. Wish they used him exclusively as a nr. 8 though rather then as a blindside.
1 Oct 2012, 12:53 pm
Remember when Bryan Habana got jeered in Bloemfontein? That very same day when Springbok rugby supporters unanimously declared it was time to move on from the player and those social media gurus who so generously and confidently offer all the solutions to South African rugby agreed that the majority of Currie Cup wingers were an improvement on Habana.
Indeed, I remember it well.
1 Oct 2012, 12:55 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-13:
Botha probably to ride the pine behind:
6 Dewald Potgieter
7 Jacques Potgieter
8 Pierre Spies (c)
At least Deon Stegmann is likely to be relegated to Vodacom Cup duty, where he belongs. To think he’s a capped Springbok! Good life being a Blue Bull sometimes.
1 Oct 2012, 12:56 pm
@PielNeus-10: Lyk jou neus soos ‘n piel of lyk jou piel soos ‘n neus? Ek kan nie uitfigure wat is erger nie.
1 Oct 2012, 12:59 pm
@PielNeus-10: Your name fits you well.
Habana is the best backline player of the team mate, he was the only player with X-factor against the All Blacks, he has scores 5 tries in three test matches and that with a poor backline we have have now! You must be smoking some underbrush weads or something.
1 Oct 2012, 12:59 pm
@PissAnt-15: I remembered when Steyn got boooooed in PE earlier this year. Had Heineken taken heed of the publics anger then, we would have been challeinging the All Blacks for the RC trophy and possibly the world no.1 ranking too.
So guys boooo, use people power to select the right players and to influence game plans.
1 Oct 2012, 13:02 pm
@hendrikp-16: Worst loose trio in Super rugby! Stander and Botha are leagues ahead of Greese ball and aff arm.
1 Oct 2012, 13:04 pm
@goodstuff-18: don’t tell Skoppie but Habana has score more tries with Heineken (4 weeks) than he has in 4 years with Divvy.
1 Oct 2012, 13:04 pm
@PissAnt-15: The past is just that, the past, what matters is the present, Habana is the only player in the bok backline able to finish of tries. He is back and doing great, I say him and JP will be an awsome combination once again.
1 Oct 2012, 13:07 pm
@goodstuff-18: jammer heinung kont maar the whole problem, why SA will never have fibre regularity beating AB – because holding onto the past. Habana is past it, you will see on Saturday. Dont come cring on Piels shoulder, reg?
1 Oct 2012, 13:07 pm
criying
1 Oct 2012, 13:08 pm
@hendrikp-16: Then he will pull a Stander,sooner rather than later. Another victim of the Spies obsession. Fuckme, Spies has taken out more worthy Saffa loose forwards than injuries, Kiwi’s and Aussies combined.
1 Oct 2012, 13:11 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-25:
He won’t pull a Stander.
The Bulls will fork out enough money to keep him around, and the fact that Heyneke Meyer has a very high opinion of him will keep him in SA.
Stander was basically told that he’s unlikely to become a Springbok under Meyer, which is why he packed his bags.
1 Oct 2012, 13:12 pm
Congratulations to the Springbok team and all their supporters on Saturday’s win are in order I believe.
It was a game well won.
1 Oct 2012, 13:13 pm
@PissAnt-15:
Brian is the Winger of his generation.
1 Oct 2012, 13:16 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-27: Cheers. The Wallabies showed a lot of spirit considering their catastrophic run of injuries.
1 Oct 2012, 13:19 pm
@PielNeus-23:iff your shoulder also looks like a piel then you can count on it.
1 Oct 2012, 13:20 pm
@hendrikp-26: How many seasons will a chap like Botha be happy to ride the bench for his provincial team, when he knows (and every other person with 2 eyes knows) he should be starting?
1 Oct 2012, 13:32 pm
@gonzo-4: Not quite. I am saying that as a public, too many, hail one player and want to bury the previous one for ever. I am saying there may be a role for two players over a period of four years or for 3 or 4 players per position over a period of 4 years. Don’t limit thinking to just this is the best 15 on Saturday and we will be the best forever. That there is always a game beyond this one and whoever produces in this one may not produce in the next one. It is about expanding and exploring all options and not limiting options.
I am talking about a principle in approach. is the South African rugby fan capable of understanding principle as opposed to who won and lost last Saturday? Or do we just accept our support base are supposedly passionate but in fact they are thick and passion is really a combination of anger and ignorance?
1 Oct 2012, 13:35 pm
The whole fascination about our selection is that most of the players that have performed were not because they were carefully picked and were put there to win the game for us but guys that have been because of injuries and also loss of form to players that were backed up despite their inefficiencies being evident. What if Spies was not injured, Vermeulen won’t have played, what if we didn’t lose Schalk, Flo wouldn have been picked, what if Steyn wasn’t embarrasingly out of form, Goosen wasn’t gonna be picked, what if F.Steyn wasn’t picked or J.Fourie was around, Taute wasn’t gonna be picked.
thats the sad story, how many players are not in the original team yet are the ones that evolves the team, compared to those that are mere a revolution but without delivering.
1 Oct 2012, 13:35 pm
I use 2015 as a trigger because it is the next WC. Rugby works in cycles of 4 years between WCups, but again ref to the climax of the cycle does not mean any ref to a four year plan.
Any business has an immediate plan, a short term and a long term plan. The game is a business, so let’s apply business principles to ensuring the success of the Boks, both short term and over a sustained period.
1 Oct 2012, 13:39 pm
@keo-32:
Effectively, you’re describing the ABs approach.
1 Oct 2012, 13:40 pm
Also not quite sure what Keo is aiming at with this article. Habana should have been placed on the bench or dropped at that stage when he was booed in Bloemfontein. Remember that we lost alot of those Tri-Nations games sticking with the same people. The players are not babies! If you have 3 not so good games in a row, why is it bad to maybe go the bench or sit the next match out so we can try something else? No matter who you are! There are tournaments at stake and sometimes hard choices need to be made. We could have won this tournament had it not been about misguided loyalties to certain players. Winning against Australia does not vindicate Meyer, his gameplan before this or certain selections. We have a long way to go but this could be the start of something beautiful. We will know more after the All Black test as we will not enjoy the same amount of opportunities. All smiles for now though.
1 Oct 2012, 13:41 pm
@rangerman-7: no don’t accept anything but don’t kill off anything either.
Any player can go off the boil or be out of the mix, but the tendency is to think that if you drop a player or let him go it has to be permanent and going back to that player is taking a step back. I am saying, assess the talent we have here, assess what is playing overseas and do an unemotional exercise about ensuring that between now and the World Cup in 2015 (NOT JUST AT THE WORLD CUP) is there 30 players of the necessary int quality to start a Test and the question you have to ask yourself is if every 1 of those 30 is good enough to start in a WC final on Saturday. That is what should be asked every week the Boks are in action between now and the WC final in 2015. That way you get an integration and a controlled exodus, an evolution of the best squad and not a revolution in which excuses are made of it being a young squad, a new era and whatever else.
I am saying apply a business principle to short and long term success.
1 Oct 2012, 13:43 pm
@keo-34: Keo give me a job doing your TV – unemployed. Here is my CV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U38cRToxkSI&feature=channel&list=UL
Will mash it up naicelcy, got mad skillz.
Will work for R2500 per hour, each episode + about R250 000 but then you get quality like I show above.
1 Oct 2012, 13:45 pm
@John Galt-8: Just an example of how immediate thinking can be. Schalk Burger doesn’t feature in your 30. Yet once fit he would walk every starting XV in the world and he doesn’t make your 30.
Isn’t it a case of how easily and quickly we forget in the euphoria of something immediate. If the Boks get smashed on Saturday and the flankers are poor would you then be saying it is only cos Juan Smith and Schalk Burger and Spies are injured. Those are the questions we have to be asking ourselves every week and of course the nat coach and selectors must be asking. Knowing what is short, medium and long term in what is available as a player base.
1 Oct 2012, 13:46 pm
@keo-37: In this regard we could take a leaf out of the Aussies book. We should identify 30 top players in the country and ensure we skill them up as much as possible as opposed to dropping a player that does not perform once. Sure if the player has a dip inform he should be replaced by that should not be the defacto course of actiion. Sometimes our massive talent pool can also be a negative thing.
1 Oct 2012, 13:49 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-27: Can’t say I feel sorry for your guys bearing the heart wrenching losses we have had to endure at their hands recentley but I must say I really admire the Aussie tenacity. They could have taken 50+ on Saturday but even with all the injuries kept hammering away and kept the game competitive.
1 Oct 2012, 13:50 pm
@goodstuff-22:
Defined by what, game to game?
Those who get cheered today will get boo’d next week and we are back to square one.
There seems to be scant regard in the difference between form and ability for 80 minutes, or from one game to the next with the SA public and media.
There is little to no understanding that there needs to be an appreciation on the balance between both form and ability when we judge players.
Habana is actually a very good case in point. Even when areas of his game was highlighted in 2010 and 2011 as being very good it was dismissed out of hand because ‘he did not score tries’.
I am just happy for Goosen that Adriaan, Flo and Eben had their best games in a green jersey to date, with Alberts and Vermeulen also making huge strides from the weeks before and Bekker actually looking hungry again. Because if he had to play behind the pack the way they performed in Perth this blog would be littered with comments on how he is not ready yet.
I found it particularly perplexing how people on social media sniggered when JDV commentated after the game that the game plan was no different from weeks before and how Rapport ran a headline yesterday about how there was no praise for Goosen in isolation for the Bok win – who incidentally made only 1 kick less in Pretoria than what Morne Steyn did in Dunedin…
Keohane to my mind is one of the few, very few media guys that woke up to the fact that rather than looking for our next messiah in SA Rugby (while dismissing other players out of hand) we should rather concentrate on collective which make, or should make, SA Rugby and Bok rugby unbeatable.
1 Oct 2012, 13:52 pm
@keo-34: even better if all franchises traded on the JSE and the accounts were open to scrutiny. Board members were chosen on ability and business acumen. Sadly the reality is that the opposite exists.
1 Oct 2012, 13:53 pm
@keo-39: Don’t even bring Spies into the equation!
Nobody is saying just discard players (unless they remain utter shite, a la Spoes, of course) but international rugby is not the place to find form or be “coached into form”….fark that…..if a player is not performing then bring another player in who is on form and let the non-performer warm the bench or play in the lower leagues until he regains form.
The problem is that Zibi should’ve dropped//rested//whatever Stain longe before he did, and succeeded in blowing a very real chance of a win in Oz and NZ this year.
Habana was equally kak for an extended period and that should’ve been when the next guys should have been selected while Brian finds form in Super rugby or CC (which he did this year). That way the player gets less pressure and the other chap equally gains international experience.
We should’ve been able to blood at least 4 decent loosies over the last 4 years if it wasn’t for Spoes filling a slot on the roster.
1 Oct 2012, 13:54 pm
@keo-39:
Burger and Smith?
How long have they been out for? Will they ever come back? How old are they now and will they even be remotely as good as they were before and last another 2 years?
Keo, they are not forgotten, just complete unknowns.
Ive names some other injured players there in Bissie and JP etc but I at least KNOW they will be back.
Spies is not good enough, even when back from injury.
1 Oct 2012, 13:57 pm
@keo-32: i think you are getting ahead of yourself keo.
all your attempts to be as objective about things would surely see you making a living being tossed around in a nz bar if the south african fans were not as passionate as they are.
1 Oct 2012, 13:58 pm
@keo-37: Correct. This squad will be a dynamic one, with players moving in and out depending on form and age etc.
Just because Morne is out of form doesn’t mean he won’t come into contention at a later time (some will say that his international career is over but I think this is premature).
One question to ask is this:
Which of Saturday’s team is unlikely to be as sharp in 3 years time as they are now, due to the inevitable march of time?
I’d say that several will be too old, which means that the next in line will probably be the starting players come 2015 (form and injury permitting). Guys like Jean DeVilliers won’t be there (lets be honest) and it’s unlikely that Habanna will either.
Most of the forward pack is still young enough, with Bekker and his propensity for injury being a long term concern.
Thankfully there are bright young prospects waiting to get their (inevitable) chance at the top, the likes of Stephen Kitsoff, Arno Botha, Pieter Steff Du Toit, Paul Jordaan, etc.
Good times.
1 Oct 2012, 14:00 pm
@PissAnt-42:
Interestingly, our coaches are treated exactly as Keo is pointing out with players. There hasn’t been one Bok coach thats been given a second bite at the cherry. As far as SARU is concerned a fired national coach will never develop further.
1 Oct 2012, 14:01 pm
@Smallzm-36: I would apply the three 3 strike rule – scientific and fair.
Strike 1 – you stuff up badly in 3 matches you get a written warning
Strike 2 – you stuff up again in 3 matches you get a written warning and it is off to the bench for you to fight again for a starting spot.
Strike 3 – you are cut from the squad after stuffing up in 3 matches – back to provincial rugby and start from scratch.
1 Oct 2012, 14:04 pm
@RL-49: that’s 9 losses dipstiek, = 63.5 % win ratio.
clever
Pages: [1] 2 3 » Show All
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.