Wayward Boks must kick on
1 Oct 2012
JON CARDINELLI writes of all the opportunities the Springboks have spurned in 2012, the missed goal-kicks have proved most costly. It bodes badly for a close contest with the All Blacks.
There is good reason to feel encouraged and inspired following Saturday’s performance at Loftus. The Springboks were at their fearsome best as far as uncompromising physicality and defence was concerned, and they also added another element to their game. With the introduction of Johan Goosen, they now pose a realistic attacking threat.
I’m not sure what point Heyneke Meyer was trying to make after Saturday’s match when he lamented the missed try-scoring opportunities. The Boks converted five of eight try-scoring chances, and that is a good return in Test rugby, especially in a competition as defensively-oriented as the Rugby Championship.
It was also the first time the Boks had managed to put five tries past top-ranked opposition since they thumped the Wallabies in September 2010. Mission accomplished. Right?
I understand that Meyer wants people to realise that these tries are the product of a game plan that has been in place since the first Test of 2012. What’s changed is that the Boks are starting to execute efficiently.
Meyer is right to say it will be tougher to score tries against the All Blacks, but I cannot understand his lack of concern regarding the goal-kicking.
He has always placed an emphasis on goal-kicking, and that hasn’t changed since he became the Bok coach. It was the reason Morné Steyn was backed for as long as we was, as Meyer believed Steyn had the ability to win matches. If Steyn could come through a bad patch of form, he would be an asset to South Africa once more.
But Steyn has struggled consistently this season, and has left Meyer with no choice but to pick someone else. That someone has proved a revelation, unlocking attacking strengths that most South Africans believed non-existent. But as good as Goosen has been for the Bok attack, the problems in front of goal have continued.
Goosen went into the Pretoria Test with an ankle injury, and this affected his goal-kicking. The responsibility was then passed to Ruan Pienaar, who succeeded with three from seven attempts. In total, the Boks were successful with three from nine attempts. It’s just not good enough.
The Boks aren’t going to score five tries against the world champions. The South Africans are capable of beating the All Blacks, and recently showed in Dunedin that they have the forwards and the defensive structures to match the New Zealanders. With Goosen at 10, they will have a flyhalf who can ask attacking questions, but they won’t run riot as they did in Pretoria.
The simple truth is that these clashes are always close contests. One kick can win the game. The Boks didn’t take their chances in Dunedin, leaving 21 points on the park through wayward goal-kicking. They can’t afford to make the same mistake when they host the All Blacks in Soweto this week. They can’t afford to miss one kick, let alone seven.
The All Blacks arrive in South Africa having already won the Rugby Championship. Will that detract from their motivation, will it make them easier to beat?
They arrived in 2010 for the final game of the then Tri-Nations, and still managed to edge the Boks in front of nearly 100 000 fans at Soccer City. The Boks must take nothing for granted. They must take every opportunity.
Their recent goal-kicking form doesn’t inspire confidence, and Meyer must treat this as a matter of urgency.
Frans Steyn injured the same troublesome ankle in training last week and was forced to miss the Pretoria Test. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was ruled out of the Soweto finale, or at least excused from any kicking duties.
Goosen’s own ankle problem stopped him from kicking last Saturday. Will it be that Pienaar is asked to continue this week? If so, he will need to be far more accurate.
Meyer claims that Pienaar ‘stepped up’ at Loftus Versfeld, but the reality is that Pienaar missed four kicks (10 points), while Goosen missed two (six points). That’s a total of 16 points that went begging. That’s more than the total of the three tries that Meyer lamented.
The Boks have been poor in this department over the course of the competition, converting just 19 of their 37 shots on goal (a record of 51.3%). It’s unsurprising that wayward goal-kicking prevented them from edging Argentina in Mendoza, as well as winning the Test in Dunedin.
Morné Steyn has goaled 13 out of 20 (65%), which is a poor return for a first-rate international kicker. Some of the individual penalties that he’s missed have also been crucial ones.
One more goal in Mendoza and the Boks may have avoided an embarrassing draw. More success in Dunedin (Steyn kicked one out of five on that occasion) and the Boks would have recorded a famous victory.
Had Steyn converted these kicks, we may have seen the Boks still competing for the Rugby Championship crown at this late stage, rather than just playing for pride. But then Steyn is not solely to blame for the Boks’ erratic and unreliable goal-kicking, as the other goal-kickers haven’t been any better.
Frans Steyn is viewed as a freak, even in Test rugby circles, due to ability to convert long-range penalty attempts. But his stats in the 2012 Rugby Championship don’t make for impressive reading (two from six) and bring the overall goal-kicking average down.
Goosen has converted one from four attempts, and Pienaar three from seven. Last Saturday was the first time Pienaar kicked in the Rugby Championship. His two from four return in the first half was enough to keep the scoreboard ticking, but in a closer contest perhaps the kicks he missed would have been scrutinised as bad misses.
What sort of form is Pienaar taking into a tight clash with the All Blacks? Meyer claims that kicking coach Louis Koen will address the problems in the build-up to Saturday’s game, but the stats over the course of this tournament, of all four kickers used, don’t inspire any more confidence in Koen than they do in the kickers themselves.
The All Blacks are the benchmark, and history will show that South Africa rarely beats New Zealand by outscoring them in terms of tries. It has so often been the case that goal-kicking edges these massive match-ups, and in that respect Pienaar, or whomever takes on the responsibility, will have a decisive role to play this coming Saturday.
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594 Comments
1 Oct 2012, 05:11 am
This was the most enjoyable test that the Boks have played in years…yes the kicking needs to be sorted out, but I would rather us play like this than watching Morne kick up and unders all day….dragons
1 Oct 2012, 05:14 am
soccer dragons?
1 Oct 2012, 05:14 am
The “great” Dan Carter will run the show in Soweto, we can beat you with kicks or tries, Ab’s to take the Bokke with superior finishing and conditioning.
1 Oct 2012, 05:17 am
promises to be a great game, lets hope no Saffas decide to take the reffing into their own hands and come onto the field to “assist” the ref, though I suspect the offer of a gold watch has already been presented..
tight five battle will be immense, Carter to further Goosens education and the Abs to edge it in the backs..
can’t wait for this one..
1 Oct 2012, 05:24 am
@NZINCHINA-3: Are you a hairdresser?
1 Oct 2012, 05:31 am
Yeah @4 Poppa69
ONLY in SA – where else in the world would you possibly see:
- a disgraceful drunken pot bellied fan run onto the field and assault a referee?
- a top wing blatantly tripping opponents if they got away from him (James Small)
- two players caught on film BITING opponents (Johan Le Roux and Wickus van Heerden)
- A national coach sanctioning eye gouging as “part of the game” (Pieter DV)
- A boastful president of the national RU announcing at a world cup function that there were only 2 countries that mattered in world rugby (Louis Luyt), causing a mass walkout of other countries
- thugs that elbow people in the head (Dean Greyling) or viciously headbutt (Bakkies Botha etc etc etc ….many examples)
- fans that CONTINUOUSLY see themselves as victims of refereeing decisions and IRB conspiracies
SA rugby needs to SERIOUSLY move out of the dark ages.
1 Oct 2012, 05:31 am
@stormer in a teacup-5:
1 Oct 2012, 05:36 am
If Percy can get Peter Grant to get Ann 80% record, why isn’t he approached? Bulls bias, that’s why.
1 Oct 2012, 05:58 am
forget these silly stats
run and bash these Blacks
Goosen Steyn Hougard are our Big 3 that need to fire in backline.
1 Oct 2012, 05:58 am
IMO it will be close but the Boks will take it. This is a better team which will hopefully stick to the gameplan and their forwards hold the edge over NZ. Why the Argies changed their gameplan against NZ over the weekend is beyond me but it helped with that scoreline.
1 Oct 2012, 06:24 am
Its not fair to coriticise Frans’s kicking record – he only ever hets huge long range ones, and doesn’t miss by much. Remember that long range gives you smaller angles. I predict Frans taking over goalkicking duties against the AB’s.
1 Oct 2012, 06:26 am
@W.P-10:
of course it did
1 Oct 2012, 06:26 am
@greatest13gerber-9:
Hougaard shouldn’t be there
1 Oct 2012, 06:36 am
@NZINCHINA-13:
Howzit China…….I see you feeling up for this game…..same here. Was good to see Dan showing everyone how its done and Ma’a seemed reignited with him on the inside. Abs love the Soweto and will celebrate with the locals their sweet sixteen.
1 Oct 2012, 06:48 am
@Delki-6: agrred ..but whatever..TIA
1 Oct 2012, 06:57 am
@Te Rangatira-14: My favourite matchup of all.. the allblacks are without a doubt the best allround consistent rugby team but the bokke can , do and I think this saturday will beat them . Your rugby is settled and simple( I mean everyone knows what the gameplan is) . ours is a confusing mess at the best of times. We have all the talent in the world but this gets coached out of them . We are our own worst enemy. Going to be a cracker.
1 Oct 2012, 07:06 am
@Delki-6: Some more gutter dwellers crawling into Keo’s digital pub, to bad we can’t give you a digital PK!
Why don’t you go drink a couple of six packs and enjoy the NZ national sport; wife beating.
1 Oct 2012, 07:08 am
@RugbyStudent-8: Exactly, Louis Koen is a disaster!
1 Oct 2012, 07:11 am
i do not like these kiwi’isms the keo crew love picking up.
it puts me off commenting.
as die kiwis kak op n draairoomys sit, sal julle dit ****** lek?
1 Oct 2012, 07:12 am
so glad the americans lost the ryder cup
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/golf/4563845/Fan-taunts-Euro-wag.html
1 Oct 2012, 07:13 am
@NZINCHINA-13:
Let me tell you, there are no Cape Malays who support The Crusaders. We is going to trap you Black poeste once and for all. The Cape is green, jus like Palestine
1 Oct 2012, 07:14 am
The Boks forwards rattled the ABs last time at Dunedin, it is obvious the ABs haven’t replaced Thorn and Kaino in terms of size as we all saw it two weeks ago
With Goosen at 10 not kicking it away, the ABs will have to work much harder for possession at altitude, a daunting task indeed
And then the referee, call it the ‘home field advantage’ or the ‘shining of the krugerand’, that’s about 12 points worth :_D
1 Oct 2012, 07:15 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-20:
whatever. just shut up, already, doos.
1 Oct 2012, 07:16 am
Only in New Zealand do you have fans which have zero respect for the opposition. There is no ways a kiwi crowd would applaud any team who convincingly outplays the All Blacks like the Argies did yesterday.
1 Oct 2012, 07:16 am
@16 goforthegap
Yeah mate these are the games we Ab supporters hang out for,hostile environment and excellent opposition.Abs will be up for this
1 Oct 2012, 07:17 am
goodstuff @ 17
hahaha SA actually lead that stat dumb@rse. you’d know if you did a smidgen of research
1 Oct 2012, 07:18 am
The kicking has been poor, but several of these misses were 50 + meters. More of them were right on the side line. If you take a penalty kick from anywhere on the field whenever it’s given, you’re kicking stats are going to drop. This is somewhat unfairly skewing the stats.
1 Oct 2012, 07:20 am
pattyfries
don’t delude yourself that bok fans would either
my god, are there any intelligent saffas. we need to add more chlorine to the SA gene pool I think
1 Oct 2012, 07:20 am
@Pencil-27:
Jus make sure there is lead in your pencil , because why – come Saturday we is going to rewrite the Magna Carter, bra. Genuine.
1 Oct 2012, 07:22 am
hiers klomp van julle vandag…
1 Oct 2012, 07:23 am
Motlanthle en Malema maak n baba. Wakker skrik ZA.
1 Oct 2012, 07:24 am
sies
1 Oct 2012, 07:24 am
is
1 Oct 2012, 07:24 am
As far as I can remember Louis Koen always used to curve the ball in. Compare this to the almost toe-punt style of some kickers today then I can see why they are making a hash of it.
1 Oct 2012, 07:29 am
@30….
Kia ora Houston, Bok looked good v Aussies so going to be a massive game this weekend.Best of luck mate
1 Oct 2012, 07:29 am
@poppa69-28: hey FU..
1 Oct 2012, 07:30 am
The only reason why the missed goalkicks proved more costly was because creative, attacking backplay was virtualy non-existent. A different perspective on Dunedin could be the AB’s being that **** that even with a limited gameplan and loads of missed goalkicks, the Boks lost only thru a moment of brilliance by a number 9 and several moments of idiocy by a number 17. Trouncing ARG by 50 doesn’t make them guarenteed winners in Soweto. Nor does SA, trouncing a fairly depleted Aussie side. If the Bok pack delivers a similar performance like Dunedin with the added urgency at the breakdown v the Aussies, the AB’s will find life tough. Goosen is no Morne Steyn. He made the McCabe and Ashley-Cooper midfield hesitate more than once. The Bok backs attacking with purpose would still be somewhat novel. Not much video footage outhere. Might give us the edge
1 Oct 2012, 07:31 am
Terangi, the general returned and Ma and co fired, Dunedin was false hope for the Bokkie, we take them at Soweto as we are the better team its that simple.
1 Oct 2012, 07:31 am
@Te Rangatira-35:
Hoesit, Orangutang. Nixmaakie. Has the hookah pip e hit Waikato yet, mate. Do th girls like to gets tats too?
1 Oct 2012, 07:33 am
Bakkies sorry that you lost your bet, foolish to bet against black though.
1 Oct 2012, 07:37 am
@Te Rangatira-35:
morning tr, hope you’re well and best wishes to you too.
its either gonna be a super tight ‘anybody’s game’ humdinger or the ab’s will run with it.
hope its the former.
1 Oct 2012, 07:37 am
keurbloom plank
have you managed to start walking upright yet? are you a by product of your cousins inbreeding?
1 Oct 2012, 07:40 am
@39 Kaua e marama to korero e hoa.Engari he wahine o Aotearoa he ataahua
1 Oct 2012, 07:44 am
i’ve told you before china, i would never ever support the ab’s.
i was sceptical against oz but now i’m sure we’ll beat you.
1 Oct 2012, 07:49 am
@poppa69-42:
not yet. too much Old Brown on the boat yesterday. But i didn’t spend too much time in transvall, so i missed the in breeding part. How’s your ma?
1 Oct 2012, 07:51 am
@Te Rangatira-43:
is that morse code or does you want to get asylum?
1 Oct 2012, 07:51 am
I’m pretty confident we’ll beat the All Blacks. With our limited gameplan and personnel we still outplayed the Blacks in Dunedin and would’ve won the game but for poor kicking for goals
HM and JdV may say the game plan hasn’t changed but the personnel sure has and there’re certain things you can’t coach into a player@International level, like the ability to create space and take the ball flat with a purpose.
Goosen and Jantjies both create space when they have the ball and vary their attack by coming up flat, With a Purpose! I’ve seen MS try a few times to take the ball flat but he looks clueless!
Our forwards will lay the platform, we’ll take 62.5% of our try scoring opportunites (5 out of 8) only this time we’ll have more than in Dunedin as the personnel believes in creating opportunities and not kicking the ball away at every opportunity
1 Oct 2012, 07:53 am
Jeepers people can’t we all just get along?
1 Oct 2012, 07:53 am
Keurbloom….the hookah pipe…yeah dangerous stuff…destroying some of our communities….and yes the girls love the taa moko
1 Oct 2012, 07:55 am
@papaown-47:
You sound as bok as an EP King. I got familie in PE. You boys speak betterste English than those guppies from PMB.
1 Oct 2012, 07:56 am
@KeurboomPark-45:
funny fella..
so its 8 am in SA, that means, according to the daily avearge, at least 12 people have already been murdered huh?
1 Oct 2012, 07:57 am
@Te Rangatira-49:
ken oath. got a brother that wants to get down. smoking is bad for the helth. trus me , i have issues. But, a tatoo on a girl looks lekka at Clifton.
1 Oct 2012, 07:57 am
@Te Rangatira-49: save your efforts
this is one dutch1e still firmly entrenched in the whole supremacy angle..
its in his dna, his dumb neanderthal aura..
1 Oct 2012, 07:58 am
@poppa69-51:
who’s cunting. life iis like a boxa chocolates.
1 Oct 2012, 08:01 am
@poppa69-51: You really are bored hey?
Why are you like this man? You behave like you were never loved growing up!
Like the kid who needed a taxi to be called for him@the maternity ward!
1 Oct 2012, 08:04 am
Goodstuff @17
Yup, and even the players like Sitaveni and Luaki klapping their wifes and partners, headbutters like mealamu, eye gougers like Richard Loe, paying off refs to add extra minutes ala Clive Norling (bets on his watch being gold?), bad losers , accusing hosts of poisoning when the final is lost in ’95, plus whinging add nausum in ’07 when the frogs pumped them up the naught, not forgeting putting in a heavey weight boxer to illegally take out opponents ala Skinner, oh yup these keewee muthafukers are squeeky clean arn’t they? Oh yeah and if you want to pull players back like Cowen did , thats cheating too is it not? Deserves a headbutt in my book!
So Delki @6 go troll somewhere else you faaking dropkick doos!
1 Oct 2012, 08:04 am
@papaown-55:
Howzit, chommie. I’m going now. Have to see a man about a snoek.
1 Oct 2012, 08:07 am
@papaown-55: Yup, the man obviously has daddy issues.
1 Oct 2012, 08:08 am
@poppa69-51: Hey poptart, what club team do you support? Or what Super rugby team do you support?
1 Oct 2012, 08:09 am
@KeurboomPark-57: Chomie??
1 Oct 2012, 08:10 am
@goodstuff-58: nah, just sick of those spouting bullsh1t like yourself, when your country is in fact worse… the old “bash your wife” banter really is pathetic… I can quote endless stats about many things wrong with SA, shall we go down that route? your choice, stick to rugby and I will too, but that is hard for you guys because thats one stat you arent very good at..
I support the same team that has won as many super trophies as the whole of SA rugby combined..
1 Oct 2012, 08:14 am
1. chommie 8 up, 2 down
South African term meaning “friend”. Originates from isiXhosa, one of South Africa’s 11 official languages, which also happens to be Mandela’s home language.
A: Howzit my bru? What are you doing this weekend?
B: Howzit! I’ll be drinking with my chommies, wanna join us?
A: Sounds like a lekker plan, but eish I cant…have to catch snoek, b4 the NZ trawlers steal them all.
1 Oct 2012, 08:15 am
Pops they were given false hope in Dunedin and now they think they actually have a better side after beating Aus C at home, we take them and 16 straight tests their winning streak will go back to zero.
1 Oct 2012, 08:16 am
This Poppa charecter sounds like Tacklers lost lover. Kind of boring in his rumblings…
1 Oct 2012, 08:18 am
China why don’t you take your wife out to a restuarant for a hotpot.Always blogging here,don’t be surprised if she leaves you.
1 Oct 2012, 08:18 am
@poppa69-61: One sad little fact (for me and you) is that your sad little country does not even have a sad little rugby website where you can talk kak with your sad little NZ friends. Now please get one so that you can take a walk. Totsiens domste drol!
1 Oct 2012, 08:18 am
@53 Ae e te tuakana.Ka haere tonu ki to mahi pai ki runga o Keo
1 Oct 2012, 08:19 am
Cheers all,have a good day/eve.
1 Oct 2012, 08:19 am
@Fern-65:
Talking from experience cassanova?
1 Oct 2012, 08:22 am
@NZINCHINA-63:
China. When Hansen was plotting his strategies at the beginning of the season and predicting a possible winning streak record, the Soccercity encounter was always going to be the biggest challenge.
After this week-end that challenge has become a little bit tougher.
1 Oct 2012, 08:22 am
@Horings-66: and one very big sad fact is that this blog is a window to SA as a whole..
and its extremely murky, such a pity, I’m sure your country has a lot going for it..
I guess the fact we consistently best you in rugby brings out the very ugly side of many a poster..
it really does ruin the effort made by the few decent ones on here..
vatso katvis..
1 Oct 2012, 08:22 am
Julle silver ferns must jus take you pundi and waai.
1 Oct 2012, 08:23 am
Fern today is China’s birthday a big celebration for my Chinese brothers and sisters.
1 Oct 2012, 08:25 am
@NZINCHINA-73:
OMG that is so special. Do i need a permit to celebrate?
1 Oct 2012, 08:29 am
@blue and white stripes-70: I predict a similar game than a Crusaders Bulls semi final at Loftus/ Soweto. The All Blacks need to travel east and up to altitude. Not an easy task.
1 Oct 2012, 08:29 am
@65 Fernly see your offering marriage guidance.How’s it going?Saw you put up a post a few days ago about the young fella from the Nz u/20s who got off the rape charge,I remember discussing it with you and thought this would be the likely outcome.Anyways you keep well.Abs
1 Oct 2012, 08:30 am
Blue and white you are correct, this will be the toughest game to win, a victory in Argie land despite plenty of Bokke fans picking/praying for an upset was never going to happen. The Ab’s wont be ambushed at the breakdown this time and we are far superior outwide so thats where we’ll win it.
1 Oct 2012, 08:31 am
LOL Aussie C team well by the time the boks were done with them they were more like the D team
If theres a team that can beat the AB’s its the team that played at Loftus …
The kick chase is gone it will be interesting to see the ABs adapt to playing with less ball
1 Oct 2012, 08:35 am
@poppa69-71: Dont even get me started on the fact that your sad little country cannot make their own decisions and need to suck up to your filthy neighbours. You are to Australia what Wales is to England, a sad little province. At least I respect the Scots and the Irish, but countries that does not stand on its own two feet like NZ is terrible. I have more respect for North Korea than for NZ and Wales.
1 Oct 2012, 08:37 am
79 Horings dont be silly mate stick to rugby.
1 Oct 2012, 08:38 am
@78 Boktillzero.Nz & Ab rugby pride themselves on winning when the stats are against them,it’s called having an instinct for the tryline.
1 Oct 2012, 08:39 am
@Horings-79: ummm not very bright are you?
why then are ireland and Scotland part of the Great Britain team in the olympics for example?
are you one of the only 20% of SA’s that have access to the internet?
of course you dont have respect for us, most underlings are like that..
32 wins to 14 since 1992, no wonder you lot are sour… not only do you have to share your rugby team with the majority of the population, youve been getting owned for twenty years now
1 Oct 2012, 08:39 am
@poppa69-61: So let me ask you this, do you spend your time going to Wellington and finding a Hurricans fan club and the proceed to tell them how kak they are? Or do yo ugo down to Hamilton and tune the Chiefs fans what a bunch of losers their team is?
What do yo uthin kwould happen to your pathetic little self? You would get the beating of your life mate. So why do you spend your time on a bok website insulting our rugby, our country and our comments to each other.
Why, because if this was the real world you would be on on arse KO’d in the parking lot while the patrons of the pub went back to enjoying their beer.
So what I am saying is this; sod off!
1 Oct 2012, 08:41 am
@Horings-75:
Travelling east will be a major factor.
They have not experienced this challenge before.
Vermeulen and Flo create lots of penalties and I hope this time around Goosen nerves will be settled.
I also think hopefully with Fransie back we offer even more on attack.
1 Oct 2012, 08:41 am
@Horings-79: yep, lil old NZ didnt decide to ban american warships from their harbours huh? we had someone else make that decision for us..
this is too easy really… I am now officially at the pity stakes for you..
eish..
1 Oct 2012, 08:43 am
@NZINCHINA-80:
#51
“so its 8 am in SA, that means, according to the daily avearge, at least 12 people have already been murdered huh?”
This comment above is firstly not about rugby and is secondly a very sensitive matter. If you live in a country where neigbouring farmers have been killed and where half of your family have been hi-jacked then you will show a little more respect. Farmers in this country have a better chance of being killed than a Iraqi soldier in the war a couple of years ago.
1 Oct 2012, 08:44 am
@goodstuff-83: not at all, because their fans are welcoming, unlike yourself for example..
so do tell me, the wife beating post of yours earlier, would you say that in a kiwi pub? I think not either
so run along internet hard man..
1 Oct 2012, 08:46 am
@Horings-86: again, the wifebeating and things about drugs in NZ society is fair game is it? they are problems everywhere, but many of your countryman seem to think it quite funny..
well if you guys are willing to dish it, Im willing to hand it back with interest..
1 Oct 2012, 08:46 am
@poppa69-85:
Howzit Pops.
You a nice guy when you talk rugby without the unnecessary banter.
What do you think of Goosen first starting game?
1 Oct 2012, 08:50 am
@blue and white stripes-89: I thought he had a good game, did what was required and it was actually good to see how much starting meant to him..
I think nerves were a big part of why he didnt kick well, I knwo he was also injured according to reports, but he directed the bok team around the park very well and from memory didnt take too many wrong options, if any..
easy with that much front foot ball, but he continues to impress.
1 Oct 2012, 08:50 am
Horings your posts re rugby are far more interesting, the travel factor is there this week but wont be a deciding factor in the result.
1 Oct 2012, 08:51 am
@poppa69-88: Ja I am sure wife beating is a comparable subject. Do you think I have not heard the same chirps from Stormers supporters. That is fair game, you on the other hand need to take a hike after your comments. The other Kiwi supporters I respect.
1 Oct 2012, 08:54 am
@Horings-86: Yup these NZ idiots have no clue what they are talking about. These NZ punks come unto our site and come spite their boastfull dribble. They go on about how awsome their rugby is ect., meanwhile never winning a world cup abroad but only at Auckland.
They are bottom feeders when they act like this, I always respected New Zealand and their rugby because their commentators were fair and their fans were respectfull. These bunch of gutter fiends have changed my view somewhat.
Whatever these puke saks say, I still love watching SA play the AB’s, the best of what rugby has to offer. But it seemd these NZ supporters on Keo have lost all respect for the great contest this Saturday will bring.
May the boks clap the AB’s big time, the silence from that skid mark in the pacific will be greatly appreciated.
1 Oct 2012, 08:55 am
@NZINCHINA-91: I think NZ will be entering some unknown territory. Firstly they have never travelled east, except to Argentina, and secondly combining this with altitude is going to be difficult for them. Then they are also travelling for the second week in a row. They have however found form or is it another one off performance like the 2nd test against Ireland.
1 Oct 2012, 08:56 am
Always try your best to ignore hateful attitudes, rude behavior, and gutter-class insults…. trolls are powerless without your response
1 Oct 2012, 08:56 am
@poppa69-87: I can’t give you clap so I might as well piss you off!
1 Oct 2012, 08:57 am
@poppa69-90:
Yes. He impressed me as well. I thought it was great captaincy from Jean De Villiers relieving him of his kicking duties after the 2 misses.
That could’ve affected his overall game.
The AB’s will target his channel this week-end so his defensively he will have to be at the top of his game.
1 Oct 2012, 08:57 am
horings.
so why is one form of banter acceptable yet another isn’t?
if its solely rugby banter, no probs. but the goalposts get shifted when it’s social problems, as you so indignantly prove.
if you’re willing to make light of serious issues in our country, then I’m willing to make light of serious issues in your county
it really is that simple
1 Oct 2012, 09:00 am
@poppa69-98: If you cannot see the difference then I cannot help you.
1 Oct 2012, 09:01 am
Ow, ow and ow, the kwee’s are squealing! What a lovely sound. I’m not saying the Boks WILL beat the AB’s but CAN beat the AB’s. NZ’ders must have obligatory walky talkies in Soweto, washed down with a good vintage Ubejane or iJuba or be disrespectful to their hosts. That should nobble them.
Then if Boks can kick less and more accurately, protect the ball and nobble Carter (a la Mealamu & Umugger nobbling BoD), we’re in business!!
1 Oct 2012, 09:05 am
Anyway….
The rugby championship was really of a low calibre this year, with poor performances by Australia giving the title to NZ and a poor perfomance by SA away performances against Argintinia, OZ and NZ left the contest as a give away to NZ.
Some rugby fans dismiss the kicking game, but to think that a couple of accurate goal kicks could have made this Saturday an epic conclusion to this years RC, but now it’s just a match with pride as the trophy.
NZ didn’t win the RC, it was given to them by SA and OZ. IMO.
1 Oct 2012, 09:05 am
The only pity is that this game is not actually being played in Soweto or even worse Hillbrow. Soweto is actually quite nice to drive in, but the area around Ellis Park is scary, especially if you take a detour from the Hotel in Sandton.
1 Oct 2012, 09:06 am
@blue and white stripes-97: yeah, I dont think he should have been kicking from the start, but then if he got the first one his confidence may have soared, personally I would have given the duties to Pienaar first…
I agree with the ABs targeting his channel this weekend, they will make him do a lot of tackling to nullify his effectiveness with ball in hand. I still think your problems in the backline are at inside centre, JDV or Frans are not the solution imo..
cant wait for the match though, their is a lot of history between the sides and it is the greatest clash in world rugby bar none..
1 Oct 2012, 09:07 am
94 I just don’t think two tests in two weeks is going to be a decisive factor, they are superbly conditioned and with so much super travel they are used to it. Lets not forget we beat Aus 22 nil at home as well,if the Abs dont win by 30 they are deemed to have lost form we cant destroy all teams all of the time I think you forget the good Bokke side of 09 was winning plentyvof testscby smallish margins or does that logic only apply to NZ?
1 Oct 2012, 09:10 am
Goodstuff stop talking shite, just like 09 with a weak AB side then.
1 Oct 2012, 09:12 am
Goodstuff
look back on this site at the threads post 3Ns 2009 for a sterling example of “respect” for NZ rugby by the majority of SA fans… or after the 2007 WC… is it any wonder some of us arent so quick to hand the “respect” back nowadays?
we know once SA beat us again out it all comes..
1 Oct 2012, 09:14 am
@NZINCHINA-105: Nah, why was it a weak AB side? Because Richie was out? What about the much boasted AB depth? The boks of 2009 were amazing! Same thing in 2005, when the AB’s were also amazing. Even if Richie was there, he would still have eaten a 3-0 drubbing!
1 Oct 2012, 09:15 am
@poppa69-103:
Yes, I’m sure that for any All Black a win on South Africa soil is the ultimate accolade.
I agree with your opinion re. inside centre. We need an unpredictable, creative playmaker at inside centre who can tackle.
Frans Steyn I feel will be in that position till 2015. He needs to loose some bulk for him to fulfill that role effectively.
1 Oct 2012, 09:16 am
@goodstuff-107: Donald Duck was the flyhalf for two of the three tests, we had a rookie lock in Ross, Tialata was one of the props…
but no excuses, the Boks were the better team and deserved their victories..
1 Oct 2012, 09:17 am
@poppa69-106: Again this is a bok website, we boast in our own space, we don’t go to Silver Fern or whatever website and spout boastfull dribble. If some did then they are just as much gutter trash as you.
1 Oct 2012, 09:17 am
101 Goodstuff…Abs won RC….the also rans need to up their game…simple
1 Oct 2012, 09:19 am
@blue and white stripes-108: why do you think many kiwis, myself included, rate 1996 as our best ever year? that was our everest, and what a team to actually achieve it..
Im not sold on Frans ability at inside centre, i think he would make a much better 13 personally.. the extra space would benefit him, the main reason is I am not convinced of his distribution skills
Sheryl calder is sopmeone you guys need to get back into the coaching mix asap imo..
1 Oct 2012, 09:21 am
Goody we just put 50 on the Argies at home in case you’d forgotten, this AB side is 15 straight wins and a very good side, lets talk when the Bokke have actually won something because right now as it stands you’re on a one game winning streak and dont have a single trophy you guys talk a big game backed by nothing but a rse wind.
1 Oct 2012, 09:21 am
@goodstuff-110: on the international world wide web?
exclusivity? is that what you mean? eish, move on boet, time to embrace all peoples
1 Oct 2012, 09:23 am
@poppa69-109: Sure there is that, rugby like all sports work in cicles for each nation. We are currently rebuilding after relying on a team full of great players that have given us some great memories.
What I am ment in my original post is that neither one of the SA/NZ/OZ are at their prime at the moment. The RC 2012 was just not that great of a contest.
1 Oct 2012, 09:23 am
@goodstuff-110: Yup as I keep reminding the kiwis, they are welcome but I have never felt the need to post on silverfern .. You are guests kiwis and will be subjected to one-eyed bok supporters .. that is the price of posting on here.
1 Oct 2012, 09:24 am
@poppa69-114: Not exclusivity, manners!
1 Oct 2012, 09:24 am
@NZINCHINA-105: here’s a “weak AB side”
All Blacks — 15 Mils Muliaina, 14 Joe Rokocoko, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Ma’a Nonu, 11 Sitiveni Sivivatu, 10 Stephen Donald, 9 Brendon Leonard, 8 Rodney So’oialo, 7 Richie McCaw, 6 Jerome Kaino, 5 Isaac Ross, 4 Brad Thorn, 3 Neemia Tialata, 2 Andrew Hore, 1 Tony Woodcock.
Subs: 16 Keven Mealamu, 17 Owen Franks, 18 Jason Eaton, 19 Kieran Read, 20 Piri Weepu, 21 Luke McAlister, 22 Cory Jane.
1 Oct 2012, 09:26 am
An observation re kicking for posts, if Bekker is back to full fitness and pinching oppo balls why not kick for touch at 50mts .. we have the rolling maul (apparently)
The kicking is a mess though, out of hand and at posts .. as mentioned Louis Koen is not up to it so if the want K&C tactic they have to invest in an Ozzie Footie coach ..
1 Oct 2012, 09:28 am
Tranny yip weak at 9 10 5 3
1 Oct 2012, 09:29 am
@NZINCHINA-113: Congrats for that .. most of us here have expected 2013 as the big come back year for Boks. It is too early with some limited attitude from Bok coaches to embrace the new game and its laws.
We are getting there and I have a good feeling about this saturday, for the first time in a while IF the Boks play well they will win. No fluke kicks required. That is no disrespect to AB but there is a good thing building with the Boks ..
1 Oct 2012, 09:30 am
@Doughnut-119: They made a mistake taking on Louis Koen, a ecen bigger mistake for keeping him, I don’t we have kicked this poor since the 1997 Lions tour.
1 Oct 2012, 09:33 am
@goodstuff-117: treat people how they treat you you mean? I have been..
@goodstuff-115: yeah I agree, but it seems to be that way after a world cup year now… many players retire, we lost a fair few after 07.. injury played a big part in both SAs and Aus’ campaign, why Im not so sure… we werent affected so bad, is that because of different approaches? luck? too much rugby?
1 Oct 2012, 09:34 am
@goodstuff-122: but louis koen is going nowhere, he ensured the bulls get pollard so his spot is secured
1 Oct 2012, 09:36 am
Doughnut surely the jury is still out on the Bokke, the only thing that counts is test wins coulda shoulda woulda’s dont count, if the Abs were rebuilding I would still consider your season a disaster just not enough wins especially against poor opposition like England and Argentina.
1 Oct 2012, 09:39 am
@NZINCHINA-120: keep telling yourself
1 Oct 2012, 09:45 am
Tranny I dont need to it was a weaker than normal AB side, I know you’re an expert on all things rugby but trust me on this one.
1 Oct 2012, 09:48 am
@Transformation-124:
Trans. That Johan Van Graan has revolutionised our loose forward play overnight. I think his coaching specialty is the role of the “fetcher”.
“Johan gaan haal daai tackle sak” . “Johan gaan haal daai water bottel”.
After 2015 he will be the most wanted coach on the planet.
1 Oct 2012, 09:50 am
the coach should take the brunt of the flak for ******** the cat out the championship. Its him alone who selected poorly and clung to an archaic game plan and now when a few fundamental changes in personnel are forced onto him through sheer weight of overwhelming evidence that his poor recognition of who was required at critical positions provides a complete resurrection of springbok potential they want to come along and bullshit some more that it was never the game plan at fault, only the execution.
1 Oct 2012, 09:52 am
@KeurboomPark-50: We do try mate…some1 has to do it
1 Oct 2012, 09:59 am
@poppa69-85:
so funny how proud kiwi’s are of this little stand of theirs. what exactly does it mean? and what good did it ever do the world exactly?
1 Oct 2012, 10:11 am
@NZINCHINA-125: Sure but AB had an assitant coach who stepped up to head this year, a Capt that continued and a buy in from NZRU .. Compare this with PdV, SARU and the representative politics plus a new capt and team being built. ..It is apples and pears ..
There is a process and 2013 will be the year Boks should get a full run at it .. It will be v interesting as for me if McCaw is not playing you will lose a heap of leadership .. just like the boks did with Vic and FdP .. (their std dropped but carried us through a few difficult times). Read is nowhere near the mark of McCaw ..
1 Oct 2012, 10:13 am
@fitz1ella-129: Come on chap, enjoy a victory. Yes it should have been fixed earlier but as long as MS and Spies earn their way back to the Boks and are not pushed in again I will be ok.
Bear in mind SARU long delay in confirming HM and his lack of decent assistants !
1 Oct 2012, 10:28 am
What will be dangerous for the reinvigorated Bokke is the triple threat of attempting to expand on the open game they displayed against Aus versus a team that has none of that teams weaknesses.
Add to that, this AB’s team has scored an embarrassing number of their tries on first phase ball.
Over the last 10 years the rewards have usually come from pressure and punishing mistakes anywhere on the park.
Scoring tries from set piece play amounts to thumbing your nose at the oppositions defense.
1 Oct 2012, 10:33 am
@Doughnut-132:
Hopeful thinking. There is no evidence you can put up to say that Read couldn’t be an even better leader than McCaw.
That is sheer desperate hoping it couldn’t happen.
1 Oct 2012, 10:39 am
@munkiboi-131:
It is like giving up smoking.
You don’t know what it is like to live without it until you do, and once you do, you become the most rabid anti smoker imaginable.
1 Oct 2012, 10:42 am
@Doughnut-133: It was a very welcome relief from the garbage we have been subjected to since the year 2000, as far as I am concerned we have not evolved in rugby terms since Streauli stuck our conservative head in the sand notwithstanding a fluke WC win in 2007 under the auspices of a far superior Australian tactician who actually changed our game plan then to give us the comfort of expressing our rugby heritage and lifting us from the doldrums we had been experiencing then.
The introduction of key elements and personnel into the framework is what has transformed the one dimensional strategy into a far more exciting pro active one this past game.. Goosen, Louw, Vermeulen being the fundamental new cogs in a wheel that suddenly is turning in forward motion and not retrograde… but the warnings are that if we are still hell bent on maintaining reliance on a scrum half to be our strategy dictator as in the previous case where FdP ran the game plan and the fly half was purely a necessary link in the chain then we could fall into the same regressive trap again.
Goosen should have taken back the primary role of both duties for purposes of gaining confidence at this level last weekend.. if they continue to play Pienaar as the kicking scrum half dictator then the entire resurrected momentum we saw at Loftus could unravel again at Soccer City.
1 Oct 2012, 10:44 am
@poppa69-123: I also think both SA had the wrong balance in the bok back row with 3 ball carriers running the show. Also Ozzie camp is no content with Deans approach, those players were always an entitled lot. Players have too much power in OZ, hence their failure to rise to the hieghts of the class of ’99.
PS. The watching highlights of NZ/ Argies game, the pumas looked totally out of it, their previous stingy defence was completely absent at times, but AB’s look dangerous.
1 Oct 2012, 11:05 am
@Jeraldjay-128: he is the same guy that dropped keegan, moved alberts to 8 and put pottie in at 7!
between him and meyer they fumbled into playing an opensider who plays towards the ball…
1 Oct 2012, 11:35 am
JC….chill. Have you been following Pienaar’s kicking game at Ulster? He’s been kicking almost all of their points! He had the kicking duties dumped on him unexpectedly on Sat and had a bad day.
1 Oct 2012, 11:43 am
Is it me or are there more “New Zealanders” on this SA blog than South Africans?
1 Oct 2012, 11:45 am
@Doughnut-119: Bekker didnt pinch the balls this weekend, it was Etzebeth, but point made
1 Oct 2012, 11:49 am
@STBUR-141:
You make a got a point STBY.
A little known fact is that Keo is actually a Kiwi by proxy. Kiwi Parents or some such thing.
Welcome to Keo.co.NZ
1 Oct 2012, 11:51 am
@poppa69-106: I give you my word that I will only proclaim ANY sort of Bok dominance if we manage to wallop the AB’S regularly. One off wins here and there don’t count. The success and dominance will have to stretch over a few seasons to be valid
1 Oct 2012, 11:53 am
@papaown-142:
Pinching balls…………………………………come on now.
Eye gouging is bad enough.
Have you people no sense of fair play?
1 Oct 2012, 11:53 am
@STBUR-141: Whatthefuckdoesitmatter? Most of the Kiwi’s here speak far more rugga sense than some of the utterlyretarded Bok fans who vomit out their breakfast on here daily, and then call it ‘opinion’.
Wish there were more Aussies, Poms (ok……maybe just 1 or 2 more), Argies etc blogging here as well.
1 Oct 2012, 11:53 am
@papaown-142: I think the reason for that is that they were trying to avoid Bekker and Etzebeth ended up pinching the balls. I have mentioned it yesterday some time that Bekker made a step-up at lineout time. He added some variety: the first lineout he actually took the ball in front and not in the middle; he used Etzebeth more and even Alberts took a ball at 2. At least he is starting to think more – don’t know if it is Van Graan’s influence ?
1 Oct 2012, 11:55 am
@Delki-6: Silly comment mate. Every rugby nation has a record of off-the-ball niggles… It’s part of the game. For every Bakkies Botha infringement you name, I can name a Brad Thorn infringement too.
Also – every rugby nation has fans that complain about the refs or call “conspiracy” when things don’t go their way… I don’t need to remind you about the food poisoning conspiracy as just one clear example.
Lastly, the coach who spoke about eye-gouging as part of the game is a clown who was appointed on skin colour, not merit…. This is an example of the challenges South African rugby has to endure and yet, you seem to think the South African public was in agreement with him.
Come on mate – we respect the All Blacks. Show some for the Boks.
1 Oct 2012, 11:55 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-144:
Your word is good enough for me Dr Doggie.
1 Oct 2012, 11:57 am
@cane-143: Good to know, Caner. Now we can all be a little more forgiving with regards to the quality of both the reporting and the technology here.
1 Oct 2012, 12:00 pm
@poppa69-82:
The only way NZ has managed to get ahead of SA in rugby was being party to its political isolation from world sport for a generation and the subsequent immigration of 20% of its rugby population. Talk about underhanded tosspots.
I don’t quiet get why all you real & fake NZers on this blog keep on bringing up crime. 90% of the crime is committed by the non-white, non-rugby playing community, i.e. the *******. It really goes to show how ignorant you are of the reality in SA.
The only parts of the SA population that have ever had a proud and successful history are the ones that are now the most maligned, its European descendents. The only reason they are not still in charge is because the entire Western world colluded to bring them down and even then it took many decades. Without other Western countries having helped the ******* in Africa would still be milling about ineffectually.
So overall it is rather disturbing how you sick, f-u-ck New Zealanders are taking great pleasure in the carnage that the ******* are causing in SA that has led to your rugby success. Winning at any cost? Low life scum you are.
1 Oct 2012, 12:01 pm
d.a.r.k.i.e.s = **************? Stupid liberals. Everything to protect the poor darlings feelings hey?
1 Oct 2012, 12:02 pm
If d.a.r.k.i.e.s. is a banned world then “********” should also be. Hypocrits all over the place. In the long run we will still laugh last. Genetics always come out on top.
1 Oct 2012, 12:02 pm
@fitz1ella-129: who was it that said 70% of an international coaches role comes in his selections?
dont tell me Johan van Graan coached Louw to do the things he’s been doing on the park!
1 Oct 2012, 12:03 pm
Yay D.u.t.ch.m.an. is. Stupid liberals. Why even have ablog?
1 Oct 2012, 12:04 pm
@STBUR-153: your other word was also banned
so whats the problem?
1 Oct 2012, 12:05 pm
@papaown-156:
I see so. Stupid liberals. But that is a recent change. Funny though because for the longest while the goffels on this blog pretended they don’t use it in a racial manner.
1 Oct 2012, 12:07 pm
@Kaizan-148:
****.
Too compare Bakkies (the most carded player in the history of International Rugby) to Brad Thorn……………………………………………………,or anyone else for that matter!
Is pure folly.
1 Oct 2012, 12:07 pm
@CharlesM-147: I wouldn’t be surprised if Victor spent a little time with him in Pretoria. (On van Graan’s request of course…)
I also wonder if Andries’s back injury is a thing of the past (for now…..)
@cane-149:
Just read some of the sh yte cretins of the ‘Blitzbok’ sort index finger type on here…..
1 Oct 2012, 12:09 pm
@papaown-154: Yes, Louw was merely playing the way he is used to play !! It sure helped that Vermeulen has regained match fitness. The 2 of them played well (together)
1 Oct 2012, 12:11 pm
@STBUR-151:
So are you saying Brian Habana should never have equal rights to one such as yourself?
1 Oct 2012, 12:11 pm
@cane-158: Good point, cane. Brad cannot wash Bakkies’s jockstrap.
1 Oct 2012, 12:12 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-159: I’m not convinced that the back injury is gone but I hope it is starting to disappear. He was much better on Saturday than before.
If Victor can teach him, Bekker should listen. It was about time that Bekker started thinking more at lineout time
1 Oct 2012, 12:13 pm
@cane-161:
I love Habana. He was ***** for a few years but now he is back.
But your one track racist mind/hypocrtical, brainwashed white liberal mind (whichever you are) will struggle to accept what I said in my initial post. It goes against the deeproated white-brainwashing/race-hate you have.
1 Oct 2012, 12:13 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-159:
Hey we all got cretins.
I’m barely human myself.
1 Oct 2012, 12:13 pm
@STBUR-157: Hitmeontheheadwithafuckingawbflagwhydontyou? You seem to be having a hard time controlling yourself on this very public platform? Cable tie your grubby little paws behind your back, as this will prevent you from further soiling this thread with your ‘posts’.
Genetics always come out top? Deargodinheaven, you have made this ‘bleeding liberals’ day……..**struggling to maintain my composure in the face of this comedy central wannabe**
1 Oct 2012, 12:16 pm
@cane-161:
So you deny that NZ has benefit from SA’s political isolation, subsequent rugby population loss of 20% and repeated racist government intereference into our sport? Because before that (all due to politics enforced by our cousins in the rest of the Western world) the ABs lost more than they won against the Boks.
1 Oct 2012, 12:16 pm
@STBUR-157: goffels?
wtf man?
seriously bud, i think your rant is the result of a hangover.
the boks won, chill. and whilst our anc govt are a bunch of absolute thieving lying mafia tuncs led by a rapist misogynist pig, our country is not alone in having developemental challenges, ask the east europeans.
we are being punished for an illiterate and ignorant electorate who happen to be predominantly black but there are millions of black south africans who contribute daily to our country, be they educated or not.
lets all join hands and sing some songs about our mighty bokke, that will be the ticket.
1 Oct 2012, 12:19 pm
@STBUR-167: straueli was black?
really?
that idiot was the biggest stain on the history of the boks and he was a dutchie.
1 Oct 2012, 12:20 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-166:
*shrug* I am enjoying myself. A while ago I thought this was a rugby blog. But it has become clear this place is nothing but a thin veneer for many to post their national hate and anti-this-or-that agenda. So essentially I am just trying to fit in. Kinda fun.
The liberals get no benefit from referring to genetics. They are managing to singlehandedly destroy the Western world because good people are too scared to speak up. Besides genetics exists. Its why the Islanders make such good rugby players. Funny though how white liberals are happy to accept that as reality but not that genetics plays a role in anything else. Hypocrits.
1 Oct 2012, 12:21 pm
@rangerman-169:
Jeez, he WAS a dumbass! Somebody should’ve taken him out back and put him out of his misery.
1 Oct 2012, 12:23 pm
@STBUR-171:
and now he is at the sharks, making me mal by buying players like joubert who is 103yrs old.
1 Oct 2012, 12:28 pm
@rangerman-168:
Sure, why not goffels? We get called “********” all the time and that is essentially a racial slur. Let us all play on the same field I say.
I am perfectly happy with the win on Saturday.
But after reading post after post of fake/real NZers spouting rubbish on this blog, not to mention the many barely concealed goffel racists here I have decided to sink to their level. This high-brow approach of whites (especially liberal whites) thinking you are going to “lift” the level of conversation is flawed. It is that same “let us not cause any trouble” mindset that is allowing the handwringing liberals to destroy the Western world from the inside out.
Illiterate and ignorant electorate or not; the underlying lesson to be learnt is that racial groups cannot live in harmony. One either obliterates the other or after many generations of violence etc they miscegenate into a new group. Sometimes a group manages to hold out but the minority one will always be discriminated against. It is how group politics works. So all this “let us get along BS” is exactly that… BS.
1 Oct 2012, 12:30 pm
@cane-158: Firstly, can you show me your source in claiming Bakkies Botha is the most carded player in the history of International rugby?
Secondly some players get carded on reputation. Bakkies is one such player.
Don’t forget, Brad Thorn spear tackled John Smit off the ball and injured him for the rest of the tournament not so long ago… It was cynical and dangerous and deserved a red card… He didn’t even get a yellow.
The point is that sometimes players get carded when they don’t deserve it and sometimes players don’t get carded when they do.
I’m well aware of the fact you lot don’t like Bakkies Botha. How could you? His role was to be aggressive and bully your players about. Whilst this will obviously make you hate him, he is a national treasure for us.
We hate Richie McCaw for always pushing the boundaries of legality and you hate Bakkies Botha for the same reason.
1 Oct 2012, 12:30 pm
@STBUR-167:
” So you deny that NZ has benefit from SA’s political isolation…………………………….”
SA Isolation was something that SA brought upon itself.
What I deny or otherwise is of little consequence.
1 Oct 2012, 12:31 pm
Been saying it since the season started Jantjies should have been the Bok 10 with Goosen and Lambie fighting him for the jersey
1 Oct 2012, 12:41 pm
@cane-175:
Oooh… fuzzy thinking my goffel/white-liberal friend. Why is Russia not isolated for banning free speech and not having an open democracy? Why is China not isolated from gross human rights violations? That’s right, they are too powerful and there is no benefit for the West to do so. In SA’s case it was to your benefit because you were able to use that action as a “proof” how pro-lib you were. That and we were not powerful enough economically to stop you, although we lasted a pretty impressive long time.
You are appealing to some moral position that places you in a position where you had no choice but to isolate SA. But as I have said that is still a choice and a choice you make because it was in your own self interest. It is not a principle on which stood because that principle is traded in a heart beat. SA’s constitution is the most racist legislation since Apartheid – yet you muppets celebrate it.
Ignorant savages that celebrate the carnage in SA because it removed your no.1 rival for the top rugby spot. That is sick.
1 Oct 2012, 12:42 pm
See Ranger it wasn’t arrogance just absolute belief that we would go to Argentina win well and take the first RC, I have the same feeling about this weekend we have a better team and will beat you in Soweto.
1 Oct 2012, 12:43 pm
@Bok fan-176:
*lol* Jantjies is good and should be there ahead of Morne but Goosen is a cut above. What agenda do you have I wonder?
1 Oct 2012, 12:44 pm
@Kaizan-174:
Bakkies is a c u n t. (I’m sorry if this offends you……………………..but hey …………..that’s the truth).
-head-butter.
-gouger.
- torpedo entry into rucks and mauls.
-puncher (sometimes even his own teammates).
-scratcher.
-seeks out the little guys……………………then homes in like an Assassin.
-biter.
etc, etc, etc, etc………
Actually ………………………………………..you name it……………. Bakkies has done it.
All this while claiming to a Christian……………………Yeah right.
Bakkies turns the other cheek.
He gives Christians a bad rap.
1 Oct 2012, 12:45 pm
@STBUR-173: no man, goffel is a racist word.
i dont really have the energy for the rest of the debate bud.
1 Oct 2012, 12:46 pm
@cane-180:
And you sick f-u-c-k-s celebrate the carnage in SA because it gives you an edge in sport. That is cnut-like behaviour my friend. Bakkies was just a bit over zealous at times, but at heart he is a gem of a person.
1 Oct 2012, 12:51 pm
@STBUR-151: vokkof racist kont
1 Oct 2012, 12:51 pm
@rangerman-181:
D.u.t.c.h.m.a.n. is a racist word because it is used with racial intent and as an insult. That is what makes a word racist. Then again perhaps we should revisit what “racist” means. Calling a black person, black is not racist, although that is what the current liberal thought police is trying to achieve; to eradicate any colour reference as if it doesn’t exist.
But is does exist. Our constitution could not exist with the existence of race and its political mobilization. People plan their lives around it. They vote according to it. They give support according to it. Except white liberals of course.
The greatest flaw the West has is pathological altruism. To assist the “other” even to the extent where it jeapordises our very survival.
1 Oct 2012, 12:52 pm
@PielNeus-183:
Hey goffel/white-liberal!
1 Oct 2012, 12:53 pm
All guns blazing here, I see
1 Oct 2012, 12:53 pm
@PielNeus-183:
But you are in favour of our racist constitution I guess? What does that make you? And what kind of name is PielNeus? Do you want people to think you are a ******?
1 Oct 2012, 12:55 pm
@STBUR-182: hahaha I see the shoe is now firmly on the other foot and someone doesnt like it one bit..
classic..
1 Oct 2012, 12:57 pm
@poppa69-188:
I can see you have dispensed with even denying it is the truth. The problem with your smugness however is that you are merely laying the groundwork for more conflict. Blood is on your hands if you see the reality but refuse to do anything to save the future.
1 Oct 2012, 12:58 pm
@poppa69-188:
And you do realize you actually give justification for Apartheid with that response?
1 Oct 2012, 12:59 pm
@poppa69-188:
It’s now 13h00
Any update on the murder rate?
1 Oct 2012, 12:59 pm
@STBUR-177:
Many wrongs don’t make a right.
I understand SA is a very complex Nation. But the issues you faced in the 1950′s 60′s 70′s, and 80′s had been faced by many other Countries.
Why did it take SA 400 yrs to face these issues.
Was it because of people like you?
THE WORLD was almost unanimous in condemning apartheid.
(SA Friends at the time……………..Israel, Argentina, Countries that needed your minerals,………….can’t think of anothers. Germany if the Nazi’s had won perhaps).
1 Oct 2012, 12:59 pm
@poppa69-188:
Also, please don’t think I am writing for your benefit. Goffels like you are just the mirror on which my argument can reflect, making it more clear and potent to those I want to reach. So please… display more racist smugness and make my point for me.
1 Oct 2012, 13:03 pm
@STBUR-184: Ok, you either need a healthy dose of stilletoinbeteweenthefuckingeyes, or an overdose of something that can’t easily be traced.
Here’s a challenge for you Eugenie (if you can work this one out…there might be hope)Lose the colour obsession, and focus on what I call the ‘scum scale’. View each person as an individual (not as a colour), and then decide if he/she is “pond scum” or not.
Group all the pond scum together (and I can tell you there will be white, yellow, black, beige, brown and pink in the pile) and then group all the decent people together (and yes, there will be white, yellow, black, beige, brown and pink in that pile as well).
Hate the scumfuckers. Love the decentfuckers. That’s life in the end – fuckeduppeople VS decentpeople, simple as.
1 Oct 2012, 13:04 pm
@STBUR-189: no blood on my hands champ.. I dont know what the truth is in SA, my “highlighting” things is in direct response to Saffas who feel it appropriate to use things other than rugby as “banter”..
how is my “smugness” laying claim to more bloodshed? and please, do justify apartheid for me, this should be a beauty…
@Dawn-191: like I said Dawn, people want to make jokes about NZs social ills, I will do the same… if you dont like it, then dont read my posts..
1 Oct 2012, 13:04 pm
@STBUR-177:
“Ignorant savages that celebrate the carnage in SA because it removed your no.1 rival for the top rugby spot. That is sick’
NO STBUR.
Go to the mirror…………………………………………..look sickness in the eye. Give him a wink.
1 Oct 2012, 13:09 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-194:
Hallelujah,
1 Oct 2012, 13:11 pm
@cane-192:
You have the quite wrong. SA’s situation is a lot different and also due to the inherent randomness in human “reaction” not every case will play our exactly in the same manner, although they will approach a “average” result.
SA was in a unique position in the colonies with regards to population. Oz/America for example completely obliterated the locals and swamped the landscape with colonists. SA is the only colony in Africa to have had a significant number of European settlers, so much so that around 1900s they were 50% of the population.
Then you need to take into context how the “in-power” European descendents came to be. Dutch/Afrikaners was faced with constant discrimination, invasion and genocide by the British Empire. The Afrikaners as a nation was forged in the most oppressive and harshest of environments. I remember as a child how depressing Afrikaans poetry was because that is the crucible that they, as a people, emerged. When SA was finally given autonomy by Britain the by then slightly a minority Afrikaner was never going to just give away its country.
Apartheid, given the Afrikaners origins, strength and location was as inevitable as the rising tide. It was never about racism. It was about national identity, destiny and their very survival.
And it is being born out today in SA. Language, community and places of learning is under attack by the government. Afrikaans as an official language is debated to be removed. There is constant pressure to destroy Stellenbosch as an Afrikaans university. There is constant pressure to “integrate” white communities with more black people. Why? Because they know if they can crack these islands they can rely on low level miscegenation to obliterate our presence in a few generations.
Why do you think the Jews refuse to stop building settlements in the West Bank or to let Palestinians settle in theirs? Because they know demographic control of your geography is the only thing that ensures your survival as a people. The moment that is gone the Arabs/Muslims will flood them and obliterate them.
1 Oct 2012, 13:13 pm
@cane-196: It would be waste of time. STBUR would be confused asallfuck when sickness winks back at him. He would in fact think that old sickness was making a move on him……
1 Oct 2012, 13:14 pm
@cane-197: Don’t get too excited too soon. We are still not sure which category to put you in.
1 Oct 2012, 13:16 pm
@STBUR-187: OKidokie macaroni, lets dance
1. Jy het a vokken vakansie for a brain. Laat me extrapolite. Whitey is not rightey, just cos lefty is loosie, and righty is tighty. Sien?
Talk a wark on the wilder side – what is there – i tell you the problem you have sexuale tendencies for your domestic worker, and she snubbed you.
Now nations must fall and races must be under the carpets?
vergeet dit.
1 Oct 2012, 13:17 pm
@stormer in a D cup-200:
I’m sick alright Stormer.
but at least I know it.
1 Oct 2012, 13:19 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-194:
But the world doesn’t work like that. Our constitution in fact could not exist without racial discrimination. People vote according to colour. They utilisize political power to favour their group. It is the reality of the world. Why do you think the liberals had to enforce “racial laws”? Because people deep down want to associate with their own. It is natural.
If you are a goffel obviously you love it because the world doesn’t expect you to play by the same rules, hence our racist constitution so you can be majority and be a racist. If you are a liberal white you suffering pathalogical altruism. You see the world changing and in a failed attempt to “adapt” you are trying to fit in but all you are doing is sowing the seeds of your own destruction. The rest of the world is not playing by your rules of “let us get along”. Everyone but white liberals are out for themselves; SA’s constitution is right there in writing.
And yes, all races have dodge characters. But I would rather deal with my own race’s dodge characters because then I don’t have to hear eternal bleating about how I “owe” them something because of their skin colour.
1 Oct 2012, 13:19 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-199:
All on Keo.comedy get a fair hearing Doc.
That’s why I love it so.
1 Oct 2012, 13:23 pm
@poppa69-195:
There is blood on your hands. You are very smug about “how the shoe is on the other foot”. That statement implies you acknowledge there is discrimination by racist blacks against the whites but that it is ok. Huh? Because another guy will post a reply to me saying two wrongs don’t make a right? So which is it?
You guys want to butter your bread on both sides.
1 Oct 2012, 13:26 pm
@cane-196:
If my concern for my people, their safety, prosperity and survival and the rejection of the hypocrisy that abets and encourages their fate makes me a savage then I am a proud savage.
You on the other hand… you don’t even have the personal courage to admit what the consequences of your beliefs are. You are right, you are not a savage. Savage implies a degree of personal courage. You are a coward.
1 Oct 2012, 13:27 pm
@STBUR-203:
“But the world doesn’t work like that. Our constitution in fact could not exist without racial discrimination. People vote according to colour. They utilisize political power to favour their group”.
Just like your colour did for 400 yrs STBUR.
1 Oct 2012, 13:28 pm
I see Amazon have released a jigsaw puzzle of the crematorium at Dachau concentration camp. I suspect there would be several bloggers on this site who would see nothing wrong with that.
1 Oct 2012, 13:29 pm
Patrick Lambie is the new Wynand Olivier…. 16 Games and no tries…….. don’t think he will ever score one?
1 Oct 2012, 13:30 pm
@PielNeus-201:
That is a wonderfully astute reply. Just like your moniker. But like I said to one of these supposed NZers my posts are not really for your likes. You are just the mirror so that others can see.
1 Oct 2012, 13:32 pm
@cane-207:
So why are you not boycotting modern SA if you acknowledge that their constituation is racist and discriminatory “just like we did for 400 years”?
1 Oct 2012, 13:33 pm
@STBUR-206: luister your problem is one of
Your argument is just as Hitler’s reasoning – someone you admire perhaps?
just answer the question, yes or no?
1 Oct 2012, 13:33 pm
@phil72-209:
he’s scored plenty against your sorry lot.
1 Oct 2012, 13:34 pm
Guys, sorry if i’m going off-topic and discussing rugby instead of politics and nationalism but i have a question. It’s on everyone’s favourite topic though, referees
The TMO on Saturday south african and from memory it was a local in NZ too? Did we have local TMOs last year? And am I the only one concerned about local TMOs if they are about to get more and more power? I have two concerns
1) pressure on local TMOs not to appear biased and giving the benefit of the doubt to the visiting team
2) NZ winning a game based on a controversial call by a kiwi TMO and all hell breaking loose and calls of corruption against us
Also, congrats to SA for moving into 2nd best team in the world
1 Oct 2012, 13:36 pm
@stormer in a teacup-208: That is criminal. Disgraceful.
1 Oct 2012, 13:36 pm
@STBUR-205: theres no blood on my hands at all, and you can keep repeating it it wont make it any more a fact… I have never been to SA, so how would I know? the shoe on the other foot analogy is about you understanding how many many people must have felt during those years, or does that fact escape you? I abhor racism on any level, but then I am a lilly liberal and like to believe that all are equal… its a strange concept I know
@stormer in a teacup-208: have been to Dachau, very sombre experience.. surreal almost..
1 Oct 2012, 13:36 pm
@stormer in a teacup-208:
Do you ever get upset about the fact that the **** still often deny the Rape of Nanjing? If not, stfu.
1 Oct 2012, 13:39 pm
@phil72-209: Apart from the fact that neither of them has a Q in their name there are no other common features.
1 Oct 2012, 13:41 pm
@STBUR-206: That’s where you and this ‘bleeding liberal’ differ. You worry only about your ‘people’ (including those who are not worthy…..the scum, or are there no white Afrikaner scum in your bubble?).
I worry about ALL decent people – the end.
Indoctrination is a fuckertoberidof……..
1 Oct 2012, 13:42 pm
@gonzo-214: Good point, especially when so many of the calls are “Try or no Try” as opposed to “Is there any reason”. The onfield refs are leaving a lot to the TMO’s and the calls end up being 50/50
1 Oct 2012, 13:42 pm
@STBUR-206:
“”If my concern for my people, their safety, prosperity and survival and the rejection of the hypocrisy that abets and encourages their fate makes me a savage then I am a proud savage”.
I said earlier, SA is a Nation so complex, we outsiders can only wonder how you exist at all.
But YOU seem to have the idea, that you and yours, are more special than others.
We have them in NZ as well.
They are everywhere.
Call them what you will …………….Sharia’s, Black Power, KKK, Fundamentalists, ***- holes, Broederbond, Rednecks…………………………………..
Not many Brain Surgeon’s among them, would be my guess.
1 Oct 2012, 13:42 pm
@poppa69-216: i have also been to Dachau.
i wont trivialise it by trying in a limited way to find a euphemism for it because some things cannot be described by a rational mind.
1 Oct 2012, 13:43 pm
@STBUR-217:
Relax
Your people will be fine
No need to bring out the armaments yet
1 Oct 2012, 13:43 pm
@PielNeus-212:
Hitler was an idiot. He didn’t have enough people to conquer the world. Actually the two people I would go back in time to kill (for symbolic purpose of course because often one death is not enough to stop the course of events) is Hitler and Karl Marx. They are both equally responsible for the suicidal pathological altruism that is so prevalent in the West.
I have no interest or desire to oppress anyone. I have just had it with the pathetic hypocricy and double standard that non-whites are allowed to have by white liberals. Because there is nothing the “other” can do to us if my own people are not the ones sowing the seeds of our extinction.
Patient, “let us not offend anyone”, p.u.s.s.y.-footing around is not adequet to get us out of this self destructive rut.
You want us all to get along? Then stop pretending there is something wrong with a white person such as myself to want my people to be safe, prosperous and the existence ensured. I am not trying to kill anyone. What I find strange is that you don’t seem to be believe that race groups can live together in harmony either and that is why you must deny our existence? It is only once we accept that we are what we are and have a right to exist that true dialogue can begin. But dialogue and reconciliation was made impossible the day they drafted our constituation. Who are the real racists here?
1 Oct 2012, 13:45 pm
@poppa69-216:
Why dont you come for a visit
Please
1 Oct 2012, 13:45 pm
@rangerman-222: in whole hearted agreement Rangerman
1 Oct 2012, 13:47 pm
@poppa69-226:
A visit to SA may go some way to dispelling the myths you have buzzing around in your head, and quite possibly alleviate some of your obssession.
1 Oct 2012, 13:49 pm
Hitler = altruist? even PielNeus cannot understan, liewe heksie what is the time in your planet?
Nog a point – constitution says all equal, yes or know? reg of knie?
1 Oct 2012, 13:49 pm
Meantime, aluta continua
My strike continues
1 Oct 2012, 13:49 pm
@STBUR-217: I get pissed off about plenty – “scientific whaling”, people starving, climate change deniers, religious fanatics etc. I could go on for ages. We change the world through logic and by being good role models. Two things that are often beyond me.
1 Oct 2012, 13:50 pm
@poppa69-226: How did Dachau come into it today?
1 Oct 2012, 13:51 pm
@STBUR-211:
You got a VOTE STUBBY?
Does it count?
That’s more than you gave them.
1 Oct 2012, 13:52 pm
@Skeppie-231:
Pops said he has been to Dachau, but never to SA.
So I invited him.
Not that the two destinations are comparable.
Or maybe he thinks they are.
1 Oct 2012, 13:53 pm
@stormer in a teacup-230:
Only money changes the world
It drives everything
This way and that, right way and wrong.
1 Oct 2012, 13:53 pm
@Dawn-225: I have no doubt youre probably right there Dawn, we could organise a get together at firemans, Im sure just with all the keolings who want to meet me it would be a magic evening and the place would be chockers..
1 Oct 2012, 13:53 pm
@cane-221: thats a common mistake cane.
some of them are highly intelligent as were many of the nazis.
1 Oct 2012, 13:54 pm
@Dawn-229:
What do you do with your spare time Dawn?
No Work.
No Money.
Vote for a return to work at the next meeting of the Proletariatets!
What exactly are you strikers after?
1 Oct 2012, 13:54 pm
@poppa69-235:
I would take you to Firemans
It is not representative of the demographic
You gotta SEE the place
You will love it.
1 Oct 2012, 13:55 pm
@Skeppie-231: um, I wasnt the one who brought it up..
1 Oct 2012, 13:56 pm
@Dawn-238: would you be my guide?
1 Oct 2012, 13:58 pm
@poppa69-216:
“I abhor racism on any level, but then I am a lilly liberal and like to believe that all are equal… its a strange concept I know”
You do not believe in equality. If you did you would not be uncomfortable with someone like myself wanting my people’s future ensured. You would also be appalled at the racism built into our constitution. You are a cheap political points scorer because in the short term it raises your social gravitas by saying it is ok to discriminate against x.
“the shoe on the other foot analogy is about you understanding how many many people must have felt during those years, or does that fact escape you? ”
So it is *** for tat? If that is the case why was Apartheid not ok because that was a outflow from the horrific experiences of the Afrikaners/Boers under the British? So how that works? We can do back in time for ever.
And there is blood on your hands because you tacitly (and smugly) support discrimination by the majority blacks and the minority whites. And if someone complains you say “you have it coming”. What sort of stance is that?
As is evident liberal whites discriminate the most of all people. You are the ones that are oppressing others as it is your framework of political ideology that has made this farce of an SA consitution possible.
Why are you not boycotting SA due to its racist discrimination against whites?
I like how you plead ignorance of what goes on in SA when it suits you. Because if you don’t know the situation then how can you support the discrimination that whites are facing under our constitution? There doesn’t seem to much of a logical or even moral basis for you opinions.
1 Oct 2012, 13:58 pm
Goodnight all,
And God bless most of you.
1 Oct 2012, 13:58 pm
@cane-237:
Money!
1 Oct 2012, 13:59 pm
@poppa69-239: I am just asking, seems a strange topic and was wondering how it came up.
1 Oct 2012, 14:00 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-219:
By “my people” I am quite broad; Any white European. Afrikaner is just locally applicable because they are the ones that the goffels and you white liberals like to hate on the most.
Well I can guarantee you the goffels don’t care about you either dude. They would be more than happy for us to disappear of the face of the Earth.
1 Oct 2012, 14:02 pm
@STBUR-245:
What is the matter with you???
1 Oct 2012, 14:02 pm
@rangerman-236: Correct. For every 50 thickasbench blind followers, there is a being with superior intelligence getting the followers to follow…..
There have also been brilliant scientists, physicians, researchers, ‘thinkers’ and the like amongst even the most detested groups of sickpsychofucks. Just imagine if those who had something special to offer the world, had focused on good and not evil…
Fact is though – in order for the wackjob groups/organisations to survive, the ratio has to be 500 totaldribblingfuckingmoronic foot soldiers, for every charismatic and hyper intelligent leader.
1 Oct 2012, 14:03 pm
@cane-221:
It has nothing to do with being more special. It has to do with survival. It has to do with you being happy with the situation where a government, its constitution and its majority citizens are actively trying to eradicate another group.
Why is this sort of concerted effort to destroy another ethnic group ok in the case of SA?
1 Oct 2012, 14:04 pm
LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANCE STEYN DO ALL THE KICKING, LET FRANS TEYN DO ALL THE KICKING ….
1 Oct 2012, 14:05 pm
@STBUR-248:
Where is the evidence that whites are going to be destroyed.
1 Oct 2012, 14:05 pm
@J.B. Cowper-249: What’s your point?
1 Oct 2012, 14:06 pm
@Dawn-223:
History is littered with examples that indicate that we are in serious danger. An ethnic group without a safe demographic core is always vulnerable.
You are a coloured lady, right? You’re in the same boat as us. But most people would rather ignore the danger signs than face reality.
1 Oct 2012, 14:08 pm
@STBUR-252:
That’s as may be but you cant live your whole life thinking that you will be destroyed.
Then you might as well come to a dead stop.
1 Oct 2012, 14:09 pm
@STBUR-245: I’m sorry. I can not relate to, nor can I find any common ground with what you are preaching here. I’m not going to call you any names or challenge you to any further debate on the matter, as it is clear we are living different realities.
I prefer my reality, as I get to live without paranoia; selecting who it is I communicate with, based on the decency an individual exhibits, regardless of his/her background, race, culture, religion, wealth and heritage. Fortunately, there are enough like minded individuals out there, of all races, to keep me company.
Back to rugby.
1 Oct 2012, 14:10 pm
@STBUR-248: Do you really feel that the national government is on a campaign to wipe out all white people in SA?
1 Oct 2012, 14:10 pm
@J.B. Cowper-249: So you’re saying that Frans Steyn should do all the kicking? Even when injured yes?
1 Oct 2012, 14:12 pm
@PielNeus-228:
No. It says all are equal but whites may be discriminated against if it redress the “wrongs of the past”. If you dispute that then how on Earth can BEE be legislated? Discrimination against whites is the law.
The irony of this is actually the more effective way for the ANC to have destroyed us was to do away with any racial terms. Because the existence of BEE makes it us vs them and creates a counter identity which resists. All they had to do was to say if your parents were impoverished then you get x, y, z or preference or whatever. That why the vast majority of everything would still be in black people’s favour. Of course that would mean that they would not be able to reward their already rich cronies…
But that just goes to show the racist SA constitution has nothing to do with redress or helping the impoverished. It has to do with entrenching power for a special class based on race and effectively legislating away any chance of whites retaining power.
1 Oct 2012, 14:13 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-256: Why wasn’t Pienaar handed kicking from the beginning? Ease Goosen into his first start without the stress of kicking.
Unless the plan was to sub Pienaar later, thereby giving Goosen time to find his rhythm but still doesn’t seem right.
1 Oct 2012, 14:14 pm
@PielNeus-228:
And no… Hitler is not an altuist. Is was an insane madman that warped a good idea. Kar Marx layed the groundwork for what was to become the West’s pathological altruism. Jeez dude, no wonder you are so easily taken in by all the liberal BS. You seriously have no clue of the events that have led us to where we are today.
1 Oct 2012, 14:15 pm
@gonzo-258:
Kudos.
You can spell “rhythm “
1 Oct 2012, 14:16 pm
@STBUR-257:
Sounds like apartheid
1 Oct 2012, 14:16 pm
@stormer in a teacup-230:
Yet the built-in, legislated, state-sponsored racism espoused by our constitution doesn’t make the list of “wrongs”? Hmm…
1 Oct 2012, 14:20 pm
@gonzo-258: I think the plan was always to give Goosen the duties, purely to see how the kid went. He kicking stats are pretty good, and I don’t think there was that much of a risk involved by giving him the responsibility from the getgo. However, thank the wind and the moon and the stars, that they did pull him pretty quickly, when it was clear he was struggling (that must have been Plan B).
But my ONLY concern now is: Meyer might try and justify a return for Morne Steyn against the AB’s, and cite our kicking woes to back him up……..(which would be total mayhem, as Steyn has been kicking like a Tikflying mule since February). Wouldn’t put it past Meyer to pull a move like this….
If Frans Steyn is fit to play, no need for Morne (dearhellno) as Pienaar (who will prob take the kicks from the outset), Steyn and Goosen should be able to manage – fingers crossed.
1 Oct 2012, 14:22 pm
@STBUR-262: Do you truly beleive the current climate in SA marginalises whites and is totally pro black? If so how would you explain this to the millions of dirt poor black people living in the desolate squalor that “our” people put them into?
1 Oct 2012, 14:24 pm
@cane-232:
*lol* You must be a goffel or a complete idiot.
You hate discrimination and love equality, but state-sponsored discrimination against whites is ok.
Whites have a vote in SA… but as we are <9% of the population we are of no consequence politically. It comes at zero cost for the blacks. Apartheid came about because the Afrikaners had just experience 200 years of horrific oppression and they could only have a country of their own by NOT giving the vote to black, who the vast majority at that stage my friend still had no idea what democracy even was. Giving blacks a vote then would have carried a very large cost, in fact it would have cost them everything. So what exactly are you comparing?
Seems that accepting facts as they are is not your thing. You have a brainwashed position in which SA whites are evil cnuts that should be discrimnated against and it matters not whether they live or die. So essentially your opinion is as racist as it comes and serves as the perfect mirror that I had hoped it would.
1 Oct 2012, 14:37 pm
@Dawn-246:
I had a bad batch of cornflakes this morning. *shudders*
Actually, I am far more liberal than my postings here. But I have just had it with the veiled, smug double standard BS that I keep on seeing here. Especially from some of the pathetic white posters on here. There actions, or inaction/apathy/social-points-scoring, is what is endangering my children and grandchildrens future prosperity and survival.
I am mean if we cannot even be honest about what our constitution is how can SA ever be successful? How can my people ever have a place in it if we must pretend that what is happening is not happening or that we should pretend that we don’t exist?
Sure, hiding your head in the sand makes the converstation easier, no liberal NZer gets upset but then nothing gets done either. There is this trend in the West that unless what you have to say is agreeable to everyone then you shouldn’t say it even if saying it is imperative for your survival. Some topics are supposedly taboo, for example, that a white person wants to be white, he wants his kids to be white and he wants them to be safe and secure. None of that involves hurting anyone else yet the moment you do you get equated to Hitler because you didn’t buy into the Orwellian self delusion that race does not exist and that it has no effect on anything – despite our consitution and major economic legislation (BEE) being based on race discrimination.
What is happening with white people is one of the grandest processes of self delusion in world history, right up there with the Easter Islanders, Aztecs etc.
1 Oct 2012, 14:38 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-263: wish there were more debates on this…dont know what this thread has now degenerated to?
1 Oct 2012, 14:39 pm
@STBUR-241:
“You do not believe in equality. If you did you would not be uncomfortable with someone like myself wanting my people’s future ensured. You would also be appalled at the racism built into our constitution.”
you make this assumption, not knowing whether Ive even seen SA’s constitution? which by the way, I havent… when was it drafted, ratified and when did it come into effect? how can I be appalled at something Ive never read ?
equality is not about race, and it is not about preserving “my people”, thats your first and biggest mistake… it is about the fundamental rights EVERY human being should have… no matter what culture, race or religion they are..
it is only then that people can come together and celebrate the diversity that each subset of “my people” can offer, and share and learn with and from each other..
my culture was almost lost, but it survived and is now an integral part of my country… education is key, but all you are endeavoring to do is drive the wedge deeper…
your views are draconian in the extreme
.
1 Oct 2012, 14:39 pm
@Dawn-260: I’d love to take credit but my browser told me i misspelled it twice before i guessed the right way and the squiggly line disappeared
1 Oct 2012, 14:40 pm
@STBUR-266:
Gotja.
1 Oct 2012, 14:40 pm
The way I see it, life isn’t fair towards individuals, or even generations. This big old seesaw of power involves plenty of over-compensation on both ends to make up for whatever injustice has been taking place. And those caught on the wrong side of the up or down swing will be treated unfairly for probably their whole life, as will their children and perhaps even their children. But the fairness here is seen from a long long way up and spans centuries.
Think of it as an ecosystem. To regain its balance, or to remain healthy, many individual species within it will suffer terrible fates. But at a glance, from a distance, it’s beautiful and serene. That’s SA in a nutshell. We, as whites (and mostly Afrikaners) are in an unfortunate position as individuals, and will be for probably the better part of the next century. But no amount of lamenting this is going to change anything. Bad sht happened and the other end of the seesaw has been sufficiently loaded to swing things around for a long time.
And if the outrage of the unfairness is too much to handle, then one must seek your future elsewhere. There’s no shame in that either. In fact, that’s exactly what brought so many of our settler forefathers here in the first place.
I’m sticking it out, and I’m prepared to take a few knocks for the bigger picture.
1 Oct 2012, 14:41 pm
@gonzo-269:
1 Oct 2012, 14:43 pm
@Dawn-270:
I’m not just saying “gotcha” for the sake of it, I really do get your point.
1 Oct 2012, 14:45 pm
@STBUR-266: @STBUR-266: eish
“that a white person wants to be white, he wants his kids to be white ”
I just want my kids to be happy and to enjoy life..
I dont care if theyre purple, pink or blue…
1 Oct 2012, 14:50 pm
@poppa69-274: You just say whatever you think is going win you some inane little one-upmanship contest here. I don’t get the impression you have any real convictions (apart from the legal kind).
1 Oct 2012, 14:54 pm
@Dawn-250:
Well it is not a foregone conclusion but the evidence is right there if you are willing to see it.
BEE is not about redressing “injustice”. That could’ve as easily have been achieved by saying any person whose parents are impoverished or from certain level of income qualifies for x, y, z. No need to even mention race. It would stop this situation where blacks that come from rich families still gain rubbish advantage because of BEE while the poor are left behind. But if you are honest we all know BEE is not about redress, it is about disenfranchising white people.
I mean why on Earth is it so important that the majority of players in the Bok team should be black when it is an inconsequential sport to majority of them? It has nothing to do with equal opportunity. It has to do with displacing white people from every part of society, that is the motivating factor. Because ultimately if 80% of blacks played rugby and their economic situation improved then their representation in the team would be much higher. Solving society would impact on everything else.
There is debate in parliament about removing Afrikaans as an official language. Why?
Why is Stellenbosch under pressure to teach in English? Why do they actively try to get English black students to enroll (and move great distances) there when there are plenty of universities more suited? It is because Stellenbosch is still an Afrikaans bastion and the ANC wants to eradicate it.
Why is there critcism of white neighbourhoods/schools? What does it matter where people stay? As long as everyone has access to accommodation and schooling we can stay where we are. Why not criticism Indian communities? Jewish schools? It has to be about breaking the core of the white population, breaking it, miscegenation and our ultimate extinction.
The British did the same to the Afrikaners. They did not allow the use of Afrikaans in school etc. It how you obliterate unwanted minorities without the use of force. The silent war that the rest of the western world is pretending is not happening because they don’t like uncomfortable conversations anymore. It is better to be silent and PC than to protect your own.
1 Oct 2012, 14:56 pm
@katman-275: so your whole comment wasnt some inane attempt at one up man ship then katman?
you can question my convictions all you like, you have not one iota of mine, the fact you base your assumptions on a blog is really rather special of you..
does that halo ever slip?
1 Oct 2012, 14:57 pm
@Dawn-253:
You are right, you can’t but unless you talk about it and make it a matter of importance how else will my people prevent it from happening.
I mean, should the blacks have remained silent about Apartheid because otherwise they would be unhappy all day?
1 Oct 2012, 14:57 pm
@STBUR-265: afrikaners never suffered 200 years of horrific oppression man.
seriously.
they took their wagons and fukked off from the cape because they werent allowed to keep slaves. SLAVES FFS!
and bear in mind that it was only a tiny fraction of the afrikaners that trekked bud, most stayed put, happy in the cape.
afrikaners founded two republics and when they lost their autonomy in the boer war, they gained the right to vote less than a decade later and gained full political power less than 40 years after that, which they entrenched by manipulating the voting through redefinition of ward boundaries.
1 Oct 2012, 14:58 pm
Crikey Patricia!
After reading some of this inane drivel I’m in tow minds whether I should read Keo’s integrate don’t exterminate thread or not.
1 Oct 2012, 14:59 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-254:
That is your choice but the ultimate consequence will still be the exinction of your and my people. It also shows how effective the Marxist brainwashing has been that you are willing to forego your people’s history, identity and future so that you don’t offend anyone.
1 Oct 2012, 15:00 pm
you really are the epitome of ego katman, its sad really…
1 Oct 2012, 15:00 pm
i suppose another unintended consequence, in a long list of tragic consequences, of mad bob’s ‘liberation’ of zimbabwean land from ‘the british’ is the death of corrie sanders at the hands of a bunch of murderous vermin scum zimbo’s (there are good people in zim, but these are none of them).
thanks bob
thanks again….
1 Oct 2012, 15:00 pm
@STBUR-257:Luister why is your KIDS must to be white? You weet your family has probably 90% likely black blood there somewhere, isnt it?
You gotta say WE buddy, not MY..
It is your attitude will kill Afrikaaner, stifle a peoples flame – flame needs oxigin, neh? open arms buddy.
1 Oct 2012, 15:01 pm
@Dawn-260: Hi Dawn, are you back at work yet?
1 Oct 2012, 15:02 pm
@stormersboy-285:
how will they tell?
1 Oct 2012, 15:02 pm
@poppa69-282: One man’s ego is another man’s bullshit detector, Poeps.
1 Oct 2012, 15:02 pm
@STBUR-281: how can marx be the source of the western worlds altruism when his philosophy was only really implemented in the eastern world and by that i mean russia and china?
1 Oct 2012, 15:03 pm
@gunther-286: There’s less parking.
1 Oct 2012, 15:04 pm
@gunther-286: @katman-289:
1 Oct 2012, 15:05 pm
someone really should use a good dose of rubber on these violent strikers.
followed by a bit of the sjambok in a nice quiet place.
demonstrate peacefully or else.
1 Oct 2012, 15:06 pm
@poppa69-90: Good post.
1 Oct 2012, 15:06 pm
@Skeppie-255:
There is a significant enough segment of those that wield power that choose policies and practices to encourage it yes. For others it is merely expedient to maintain power based on racial fear mongering but whether it is intention or not the result and practical outcome remains the same.
The real problem though is not they are doing it, but because white people allow it to happen. Many are unwilling to admit to themselves that they have a right to exist. They are too afraid to be a called a racist. Just look on here, I ask for my groups right to exist to be ensured and then I am equated with Hitler. The pressure within the white population to not be seen as “racist” is so immense that it has hamstrung us to even ensure our survival.
There are many that feel like I do but they don’t feel comfortable to talk about it because they (like me) just want to get along but they also want their own group to survive. I have had it with that. Unless you talk about it you tacitly accept it.
That Sharkspedigree guy is a prime example. He has given up on wanting to preserve himself or his group.
1 Oct 2012, 15:08 pm
@gunther-286: @katman-289: He he he
Touche’
1 Oct 2012, 15:09 pm
@katman-287: well if anyone knows bullshit I have no doubt you da man katman..
1 Oct 2012, 15:10 pm
249 whats happened to Steyn this season hasnt done much to justify all the hype?
1 Oct 2012, 15:11 pm
@poppa69-295: Is it so wrong for me not to tolerate it?
1 Oct 2012, 15:11 pm
@STBUR-293: personally i couldnt give a toss how people view me.
i call it as i see it but i also dont want to restrict myself to a single defined identity based on my language or race.
its boring.
add to that the fact that like it or not, we are here now, in a mixed race, multicultural society and you have to adapt or die bud.
afrikaners are actually the most impressive grouping in teh country in terms of sustaining their culure imo as they do it through art and cultural festivals etc and this is the heart of a culture and language, not exclusion.
p.s. my daughter is a fluent afrikaans speaker unlike her limited dad.
1 Oct 2012, 15:13 pm
@katman-297: well, when youre so sure of another mans convictions that you just have to call bullshit,. I wouldnt call that tolerance..
Id call it ignorance, or ego.
your choice obviously..
1 Oct 2012, 15:13 pm
@NZINCHINA-296: Your punctuation is terrible. Many people scroll past when faced with such an unreadable post.
Just trying to help.
1 Oct 2012, 15:13 pm
@Dawn-261:
You are right. The current SA does exist under a stealthy Apartheid-light legal system. And white liberals don’t want to criticize it out of fear of being called a racist and losing social gravitas amongst their other liberal socialite friends.
If for example that Cane dude is not white I can still understand why he is smug about it all. While I don’t like it I can understand it. But if he is white he is the most pathetic of brainwashed people and represents the real danger. The enemy from within that saps a peoples collective will and splinters the core of your demographic. If a people want to exist and are proud of their identity it is virtually impossible to destroy them no matter what hardship they endure; just look at the Jews.
1 Oct 2012, 15:14 pm
@poppa69-299: What is your first language?
1 Oct 2012, 15:14 pm
@katman-300: his problem is that he begins his sentences at the end.
1 Oct 2012, 15:14 pm
@STBUR-293: You was equated aan Hitler when you want to assure the survival of YOUR group, when you justificated Apartheid AND claim Whites have been the only ones who have done good to build SA – check your first post NAAIER! Youse line of reasoning is ezactly the same as HITLER, you cannot deny it. DIT is hoe hy have the following did gain!
QED
Answer me, are whites superior to blacks?
1 Oct 2012, 15:16 pm
@katman-302: I dont see what relevance it has…
tell me again why you think you know what my convictions are and why you feel the need to dispute what you obviously cant know?
1 Oct 2012, 15:16 pm
@PielNeus-304: it must be exhausting pretending to communicate this way.
why do you limit yourself pricknose?
1 Oct 2012, 15:18 pm
@PielNeus-304: black and white are superior to blue hoops if that helps?
1 Oct 2012, 15:19 pm
@STBUR-151: WOW
1 Oct 2012, 15:20 pm
Katman you have nothing to prove on Keo relax mate its not a competition.
1 Oct 2012, 15:20 pm
@PielNeus-304:
simle question:
is south africa the most advanced country in ALL of africa, as well the wealthiest by a long shot and reasonably even the most prosperous place for africans to be considering high number of foreign africans we seem to attract here?
and lets not even start on the number of zimbabweans in south africa…
1 Oct 2012, 15:20 pm
@ryecatcher-308: easy now, you cant come in at the end and start throwing wows and sheeshes around willy nilly ok?
1 Oct 2012, 15:20 pm
@STBUR-151: Not a “WOW “of
admiration.
1 Oct 2012, 15:21 pm
@poppa69-305: It was one of my shortest posts ever and you still didn’t understand it. You just saw the word “tolerate” and jumped to all sorts of semi-literate conclusions about its meaning in the sentence. Hence my question about your first language. Because this can’t be it.
1 Oct 2012, 15:21 pm
@rangerman-307: vokkof avatar hater
1 Oct 2012, 15:22 pm
@ryecatcher-312: F.Off Rangerman.,My opinion as valuable to me a s yours is to you.
1 Oct 2012, 15:23 pm
Did pooper not claim to have been in sa and visiting soweto before?
1 Oct 2012, 15:24 pm
@PielNeus-314: avatar?
there are some obscure references being made today?
p.s. dont be that way, it was an honest question.
1 Oct 2012, 15:24 pm
@katman-300:
most people scroll past anyway.
1 Oct 2012, 15:24 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-310: aaaah OK so nog n ander poppie wil batter me with her eyelids.
Let me consider your question.
In meantime answer me – is whites superior to blacks – simple yes or no asseblief (please)
1 Oct 2012, 15:25 pm
Ranger how do you see the game going this weekend, your backs have learn’t to catch and pass so things are definitely on the up for the Bokkie?
1 Oct 2012, 15:25 pm
@ryecatcher-315: ?
it was a joke rye, seriously?
you wound up tight today or what?
1 Oct 2012, 15:25 pm
@PielNeus-319:
no
1 Oct 2012, 15:26 pm
@katman-300: hate posts that dont pay attention to grammar and or spelling!
in fact…The amount of people who confuse “to” and “too” is amazing two me
1 Oct 2012, 15:26 pm
@NZINCHINA-320: hmmm…..i see the boks wiping the smug off your dial bud.
1 Oct 2012, 15:28 pm
imagine if the chinese gov listed keo as a unsuitable website and it could not be accessed from china.
gwailo would be crestfallen
1 Oct 2012, 15:29 pm
@ryecatcher-315: btw, i had the same reaction and thats what led to my banter to you.
have a pleasant day to you and the rest of you.
pricknose, wake up
1 Oct 2012, 15:29 pm
@rangerman-317: jammer, tonight as the birds ends the chirp, you will see, pop into your upper brain, you will realize you been little slow then usual..
1 Oct 2012, 15:30 pm
@rangerman-324:
problem is they wont go away even when it happens, nah, they’ll come back saying how lucky we are to get one win at all and so on.
the fun to be had will be when the meyer takes the boks on a 20 game spree…. oh boooyyyyyy!!… i cant wait for that to happen… then we’ll see just how wide these dipswitches dials really are
lets see if they come blogging as freely then….
1 Oct 2012, 15:31 pm
@Skeppie-264:
Once again there is little perspective in that statement of yours.
Whites did not place blacks in poverty. They lived in “poverty” before we got here, from a modern perspective of course. They would’ve been susceptible to mass genocide by neighbouring tribes (read: Zulus), plague, famine etc the same as any other people or race at that level of technological development.
Whites did keep blacks out of the development cycle obviously which slowed down their “catch up”. But as is evident from the rest of Africa Apartheid is not really the culprit. The real culprit is that European and African development was at such vastly different starting points when we met. Technological development is separate from social development. It is that social development that was/is the largest stumbling block for Africa.
Now my point is not to say Apartheid is good, I don’t. I am against any legislation that denies anyone anything. That goes for alcohol, *** marriage, abortion, prostitution, miscegenation etc. I am a libertarian at heart and feel the individual has ultimate responsibility and therefore should have ultimate freedom as long as he does not directly hurt someone else. The problem with modern thinkers is that they try to pretend group dynamics don’t exist. While you are an individual you are still part of a groups; race, nation, religion, family, sporting club etc. Group identity is inextricably linked to individual identity.
But the West is in the throes of a ideology where I am suppose to forego my group identity in a world that is very much still driven by group politics, and like forever will be. If one group (in this case the whites) foregoes group loyalty while everyone else does not, they give up a very important and strategic tool to ensure their children’s future. The other groups will take advantage of it to the benefit of their children.
The ANC/blacks in SA are merely taking advantage of what is an internal crises in the Western world in the sense that the West places no expectation on them to have a true equality in its constitution. Obviously whites still have historical power due to relative wealth but that is not the reason for the poverty of blacks. That as I said is doing to the 10k of years before our arrival here in SA and later the 20 years of mal-management by the ANC – made worse by its clearly racist constitution that only enforce black power rather than the upliftment of individuals.
1 Oct 2012, 15:33 pm
Hi Fern, that was me was there in 1996 an interesting place. I’m sure its changed alot and is now fit for humans to live there.
1 Oct 2012, 15:33 pm
@rangerman-321: Sorry Pal.Will try to lighten up.
1 Oct 2012, 15:34 pm
stbur please stfu
you are not as lily white as you think…
go trace your family
brown sugar are sweet aswell so relax
1 Oct 2012, 15:34 pm
@PielNeus-327: not uncommon actually.
1 Oct 2012, 15:35 pm
@ryecatcher-331: bygones, i am out bud cheers.
1 Oct 2012, 15:35 pm
Bakkies you should put some money on that, the Bokke to go 20 straight, Gunther will know the odds.
1 Oct 2012, 15:35 pm
my bad,yes it was you.
sadly the crime has gotten worse and the standard of healthcare and education has dropped.
1 Oct 2012, 15:36 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-322: dankie. Surprised.
So now why is SA success in Africa…. u ask me? Sheesh.
Bcause, perhaps, whitey saw alotta cheap blacky labour down the barrel of a gun.
Simple heh?
have i missed a lot?
1 Oct 2012, 15:36 pm
@rangerman-326: Indeed. For a moment there you guys were exchanging Wows.
1 Oct 2012, 15:37 pm
piel neus sa is succesfull because of its harbours and location in africa.
1 Oct 2012, 15:37 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-263: Your second paragraph Dear God in heaven.NO..
1 Oct 2012, 15:39 pm
@papaown-323: Grammar: The difference between knowing your sht and knowing you’re sht.
1 Oct 2012, 15:41 pm
thanks china, i will.
will you still be here when i cash in so i can rub it in your face?
that would make it so much sweeter.
thank you in advance.
1 Oct 2012, 15:41 pm
Fern how can it have got worse, I wouldn’t have wanted my dog to live there very sad environment for anybody to have to live in.We got out of the mini van and had some terribke tasting local brew in a shabeen (spelling)
1 Oct 2012, 15:41 pm
@poppa69-268:
If you are completely unaware of what BEE is then I can excuse you for not understanding what I am talking about. But that also completely disqualifies you from commenting on my stance. Do yourself a favour and read up on what BEE is because our constituation specificially allows discrimination to take place if you are white. You should be outraged.
1 Oct 2012, 15:41 pm
@Fern-339: dankie fern, sure there are so many good reasons
1 Oct 2012, 15:41 pm
@PielNeus-337:
yes, you have missed an awful lot
but you’re not man enough to admit it.
1 Oct 2012, 15:42 pm
Fern how can it have got worse, I wouldn’t have wanted my dog to live there very sad environment for anybody to have to live in.We got out of the mini van and had some terrible tasting local brew in a shabeen (spelling)
1 Oct 2012, 15:42 pm
Tough luck Black Caps. Two super overs. Wow.
1 Oct 2012, 15:42 pm
@katman-338: Brilliantt.
1 Oct 2012, 15:43 pm
@STBUR-281: But you have no idea who my people are. Just because I share a skin colour with someone, does not make him/her MY people.
My people are those who share my ideals, values, fears and hopes – and as hard as this might be for you to believe: my people just happen to be white, black, yellow, brown, pink, beige and off white. Go figure.
1 Oct 2012, 15:44 pm
china i do lots of work in townships and it has gotton worst,i am told that every time by the people living there.
schoolkids who go 6 months without textbooks,textbooks being found dumped in the veld.
brand new hospitals that was built 3 years ago and is still empty because there is no money for equipment,staff or medicine.
1 Oct 2012, 15:45 pm
Bakkies a 20 win streak is going to take at least 2 years so hopefully not.
1 Oct 2012, 15:45 pm
@NZINCHINA-343:
haha
thats funny china because i could swear china must be the single most disgusting place on god great earth depending on where in china one goes.
and the general behaviour of the chinks, god… dont get me started.
1 Oct 2012, 15:47 pm
Bakkies there was nothing funny about Soweto have you been there?
1 Oct 2012, 15:47 pm
@katman-275: Once aGAIN VERY FUNNY
yOU,VE LIFTED MY MOOD.A grrumply wrinkly is a fearsome sight.
1 Oct 2012, 15:48 pm
@katman-271:
I am less worried about the discrimination (because that by itself can only make the group stronger and as you say it is temporary) than I am about actually surviving until the pendulum swings. I can easily bear hardship if I know that our group’s posterity will benefit but people like Sharkspedigree is essentially the same people that are in favour of undermining our core territories in Europe to such an extent that we as a people will disappear. If a group does not have demographic integrity (especially with low birth rate) your are on a slippery slope.
1 Oct 2012, 15:48 pm
china dont generalise soweto
it has its rich areas aswell where the millionares stay in their mansions.
it is a lot like rio i suppose.
1 Oct 2012, 15:49 pm
Sad Fernly one thing that you and I can agree on.
1 Oct 2012, 15:50 pm
Nothing wrong here
?Government Gazette
??????REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA
Vol. 463 Cape Town 9 January 2004
THE PRESIDENCY
No. 17
It is hereby notified that the President has assented to the following Act, which is
hereby published for general information:–
No. 53 of 2003: Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Act, 2003.
?No. 25899
9 January 2004
?AIDS HELPLINE: 0800-123-22 Prevention is the cure
?2 N o . 2 5 8 9 9 Act No.53,2003
G O V E G R A N Z ME T E T N E T ,
BROAD-BASED BLACK ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT ACT, 2003
(English text signed by the President.) (Assented to 7 January 2004.)
ACT
9 J A N U A R Y 2 0 0 4
To establisha
empowerment; to empower the Minister to issue codes of good practice and to publish transformation charters;to establish the Black Economic Empowerment Advisory Council; andto provide for matters connected therewith.
PREAMBLE
WHEREAS under apartheidracewasused to control access to SouthAfrica’s
productive resources and access to skills;
WHEREAS South Africa’s economy still excludes the vast majority of its people from ownership of productive assets and the possession of advanced skills;
WHEREAS South Africa’s economy performs below its potential because of the low level of income earned and generatedby the majority of its people;
AND WHEREAS, unless further steps aretaken to increase the effective participation of the majority of South Africans in the economy, the stabilityandprosperity of the economy in thefuture may be undermined to thedetriment of all SouthAfricans. irrespective of race;
AND IN ORDER TO-
* promotetheachievement of the constitutional right to equalityi,ncrease broad-basedandeffectiveparticipation of blackpeople in the economy and promote a higher growth ratei,ncreased employmentand more equitable income distribution; and
establish a national policy on broad-based black economic empowerment so as to promote the economic unity of the nation, protect the common market, and promote equal opportunity and equal access to government services.
legislative frameworkforthepromotion
of black economic
-
?BE IT ENACTED by the Parliament of thReepublic as follows:-
ARRANGEMENT OF ACT
Sections
1. Definitions
2. Objectives of Act
3. Interpretation of Act
4. Establishment of Black Economic Empowerment Advisory Council
5. Functions of Council
6. Composition of Council and appointment of members 10
7. Constitution and rules of Council
8. Remuneration and reimbursementof expenses
9. Codes of good practice
of SoutAhfrica,
5
?productive
4 No 25899 GOVGERANZEMTETNET,
9 JANUARY 2004
Act NO.53,2003 BROAD-BABSLEADCOKNOMIC EMPOWERMENT ACT. 2003
10. Status of codes of good practice
11. Strategy for broad-basedblack economicempowerment
12. Transformation charters
13. Supportservicesandfunding of Council
14. Regulations
15. Short title and commencement
Definitions
5
1. In this Act. unless the context indicates otherwise-
“black people” is a generic term which means Africans,
“broad-based black economic empowerment” means the economicempower- 10 ment of all black people including women, workers,youth, people with disabilities
and peopleliving in rural areas through diverse but integrated socio-economic strategies that include. but are not limited to-
increasing the number of black people that manage, ownandcontrol
and enterprises assets; 15
facilitating ownership and management of enterprisesand productiw assets by communities, workers, cooperatives and other co1lectii.e enterprises;
human resource and skills development;
achieving equitablerepresentation in all occupationalcategories and 20 levels in the workforce:
preferential procurement; and
investment in enterprises that are owned or managedby black people:
“Council” means the Black Economic Empowerment AdvisoryCouncil estab- lished tly section 4:
“members” means members of the Council;
”hlinister” means the Minister of Trade and Industry:
“organ of state” means-
((1) a national or provincial department asdefined
Manageme1n9t 9A9ct, (Act No. 1 of 1999);
(bJ a municipality as contemplated in the Constitution:
(c,) Parliament:
It/) a provinciallegislature:and
(c) a constitutionalinstitutionlisted in Schedule I to the PublicFinance
Man1a9g9Ae9cmt.ent (Act No. 1 of 1999): 35 “prescribe” means prescribe by regulation;
“public entity” means a publicentitylisted in Schedule 2 or 3 to the Public FinanceManagementAct.1999 (Act No. 1 of 1999);
“strategy” rneans a strategy for broad-based black economicempowerment issued in terms of section 11: and 10 “this Act” includes any code of good practice or regulation made under this Act.
0b.jectives of Act
2. Thoebjectives of this Act are to facilitatberoad-based black economic etnpo\\’ermrntbv-
promoting economic transformation in order to enable meaningful participa- 45 tion of black people in the economy;
achie\inga substantial change in theracial composition of ownership and managementstructuresand in the skilled occupations of existingand new enterprises:
increasing the extent to which communities, workers. cooperatives and other 50 collective enterprisesownand manageexisting and new enterprisesand increasingtheiarccess to economicactivities, infrastructure and skills training:
Coloureds and Indians;
in the PublicFinance
30
25
?6 No. 25899 GOVERNMENT GAZETTE. 9 JANUARY 2004 ~~
Act No. 53,2003 BROAD-BASED BLACK ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT ACT, 2003
(d)
( e )
increasing the extent to which black women own and manage existingand
new enterprises, and increasing their accetosseconomic activities, infrastruc- ture and skills training;
promoting investment programmes that lead to broad-based and meaningful participation in the economy by black people in order to achieve sustainable 5 development and general prosperity;
(f) empowering rural and local communities by enabling access toeconomic activities. land, infrastructure, ownership and skills; and
( g ) promoting access to finance for black economic empowerment.
Interpretation of Act 10
3. Any person applying this Act must interpret its provisions so as- (u) to give effect to its objectives;and
(b) tocomply withthe Constitution.
Establishment of Black Economic EmpowermentAdvisory Council
4. The Black Economic Empowerment Advisory Council is hereby established. 15 Functions of Council
5. The Council must-
(a) advise government on black economic empowerment;
(6) review progress in achieving black economic empowerment;
(c) advise on draft codes of good practice which the Minister intends publishing 20
for comment in terms of section 9(5);
(d) advise on the developmenta,mendment or replacement of the strategy
referred to in section 11;
(e) if requested to do so, advise on draft transformation charters; and cf) facilitate partnerships between organs of state and the private sector
advance the objectives of this Act.
Composition of Council and appointmentof members
6. (1) The Council consistsof-
(a) thePresident, whoisthechairpersonoftheCouncil;
(h) the Minister, with the Minister’s Director-General as an alternate;
(c) three otheCr abinet Ministersa,ppointed by thPeresident, with
respective Directors-General as alternates;
(d) no fewer than 10 and no more than 15 othermembers appointed by the
President.
(2) When appointing membersin terms of subsection (l)(d),the President shall have 35
regard to the need for the Council-
( a ) to have appropriate expertise;
( b ) to represent different relevant constituencies including trade unions. business,
community-based organisations and academics.
(3) In appointing membersin terms of subsection (I)(d),the President shall follow an 40
appropriate consultative process.
(4) The Presidentshall appoint a CabinetMinister who is also a member of the
Council to act as chairperson of the Council in the President’s absence.
Constitution and rulesof Council
7. ( I ) The Minister must establish a constitution for the Council. 45
(2) The Ministermay amend the constitution of the Council fromtime to time, after consultation with the Council.
(3) The Council may, by resolution, and after consultation with the Minister. make rules to further regulate the proceedings of the Council.
that will 25
their
30
?practice
8 No. 25899 GOVERNMENT GAZETTE, 9 JANUARY 2004 Act No. 53.2003 BROAD-BABSLEADCOKNOMIC
EMPOWERMENT ACT, 2003 Remuneration and reimbursementof expenses
8. Council memberswill not be remunerated fortheir services, but will be reimbursed for expensesincurredbythemincarryingouttheir duties,asdeterminedbytheMinister. with the concurrence of the Minister of Finance.
Codes of good 5
9. ( 1) In order to promote the purposes of the Act, the Minister may by notice in the Gtrzetrr issue codes of good practice on black economicempowerment that may include–
((I)
(b)
( c )
((1)
(r)
(f)
the furtherinterpretationandefinition of broad-basedblack economic empowerment and the interpretation and definition of different categories of 10 black empowerment entities;
qualificationcriteria for preferentialpurposesforprocurement and other economic activities:
indicators to measure broad-based black economic empowerment:
theweighting to be attached to broad-based black economicempowerment 15 indicators referred to in paragraph (c);
guidelines for stakeholders in the relevant sectors of the economy to draw up transformation charters for their sector: and
any other matter necessary to achieve the objectives of this Act.
( 2 )A strategy issued by the Minister in terms of section 11 must be taken into account 20 in preparing any code of good practice.
( 3 )A code of good practice issued in terms of subsection ( 1) may specify- targets consistent with the objectives of this Act: and
O J ) the periodwithinwhichthosetargetsmust be achieved.
(4)In order to promote the achievement of equality of women, asprovided for in 25
section 912) of the Constitution. a code of good practice issued in terms of subsection ( 1) and any targets specified in a code of good practice in terms of subsection (3).may distinguish between black men and black women.
( 5 )The Minister must. before issuing, replacing or amending a code of good practice
i n terms of subsection (1)- 30
( u j publish the draftcode of good practice or amendmentin the Guzettr forpublic comment: and
ihj grant interested persons a period of at least 60 days to comment on the draft code of good practice or amendment. as the case may be.
Status of codes of good practice 13
10. E\,ery oryan of stateandpublic entity musttakeinto account and. as far as is reasonably possible. apply any relevantcode of good practice issued in terms of this Act In-
((// determining qualification criteriafor theissuing of licences. concessions or other authorisations in termlaswo;f any 40
(hJ developingand implementingapreferentialprocurementpolicy:
(c) determining qualification criteria for the sale of state-owned enterprises; and Id) developing criteria for entering into partnerships with the private sector.
Strategy for broad-basedblack economic empowerment
11. ( I ) The .Minister- 45 ( ( I ) must issue a strategy for broad-based black economic empowerment:
( h i may change or replace a strategy issued in terms of this section.
( 2 )A strategy in terms of this section must-
( ( / ) provide for an integrated co-ordinated and uniform approach to broad-based
black economicempowerment by all organs of state, publicentities. the 50 private sector. non-governmental organisations, local communities and other stakeholders:
7-
?10 No. 25899 GOVEG9RANZMETETNET, JANUARY 2004 Act No. 53,2003 BROAD-BASED BLAECOKNOMIC
EMPOWERMENTACT, 2003
( b ) develop a plan for financing broad-based black economic empowerment;
( c ) provide a system for organs of state, public entities and other enterprises to prepare broad-based black economic empowerment plans and to report on
compliance with those plans; and Act. (d) btehicsonsistent with
Transformation charters
12. The Minister must publish in the Gazette for general information and promote a transformation charter fora particular sector of the economy, if the Minister is satisfied that the charter-
5
( a ) has been developed by major stakeholders in that sectaonr:d 10 ( b ) advances the objectives of this Act.
Support services and funding of Council
13. (1) The Department of TradeandIndustrymustprovidetheCouncilwiththe necessary support services and funding out of money appropriated by Parliament for that purpose.
(2)The funds referred to in subsection (l),must be utilised for-
( a ) the establishment and operating costs of the Council: and
(h) the development andimplementation of a communication plan on broad-
based black economic empowerment.
Regulations
14. The Minister may make regulations with regard to any matter that it is necessary to prescribe in order to ensure the proper implementation of this Act.
Short title and commencement
15
20
15.ThisActiscalledtheBroad-BasedBlackEconomicEmpowermenAtct.2003.and comes into operation on a date to be determined by the President by proclamation in the 25 GLl:ette.
1 Oct 2012, 15:50 pm
@ryecatcher-340: I take it that’s the Morne comment?
1 Oct 2012, 15:50 pm
Nothing wrong here
THE PRESIDENCY
No. 17
It is hereby notified that the President has assented to the following Act, which is
hereby published for general information:–
No. 53 of 2003: Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Act, 2003.
?No. 25899
9 January 2004
?AIDS HELPLINE: 0800-123-22 Prevention is the cure
?2 N o . 2 5 8 9 9 Act No.53,2003
G O V E G R A N Z ME T E T N E T ,
BROAD-BASED BLACK ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT ACT, 2003
(English text signed by the President.) (Assented to 7 January 2004.)
ACT
9 J A N U A R Y 2 0 0 4
To establisha
empowerment; to empower the Minister to issue codes of good practice and to publish transformation charters;to establish the Black Economic Empowerment Advisory Council; andto provide for matters connected therewith.
PREAMBLE
WHEREAS under apartheidracewasused to control access to SouthAfrica’s
productive resources and access to skills;
WHEREAS South Africa’s economy still excludes the vast majority of its people from ownership of productive assets and the possession of advanced skills;
WHEREAS South Africa’s economy performs below its potential because of the low level of income earned and generatedby the majority of its people;
AND WHEREAS, unless further steps aretaken to increase the effective participation of the majority of South Africans in the economy, the stabilityandprosperity of the economy in thefuture may be undermined to thedetriment of all SouthAfricans. irrespective of race;
AND IN ORDER TO-
* promotetheachievement of the constitutional right to equalityi,ncrease broad-basedandeffectiveparticipation of blackpeople in the economy and promote a higher growth ratei,ncreased employmentand more equitable income distribution; and
establish a national policy on broad-based black economic empowerment so as to promote the economic unity of the nation, protect the common market, and promote equal opportunity and equal access to government services.
legislative frameworkforthepromotion
of black economic
-
?BE IT ENACTED by the Parliament of thReepublic as follows:-
ARRANGEMENT OF ACT
Sections
1. Definitions
2. Objectives of Act
3. Interpretation of Act
4. Establishment of Black Economic Empowerment Advisory Council
5. Functions of Council
6. Composition of Council and appointment of members 10
7. Constitution and rules of Council
8. Remuneration and reimbursementof expenses
9. Codes of good practice
of SoutAhfrica,
5
?productive
4 No 25899 GOVGERANZEMTETNET,
9 JANUARY 2004
Act NO.53,2003 BROAD-BABSLEADCOKNOMIC EMPOWERMENT ACT. 2003
10. Status of codes of good practice
11. Strategy for broad-basedblack economicempowerment
12. Transformation charters
13. Supportservicesandfunding of Council
14. Regulations
15. Short title and commencement
Definitions
5
1. In this Act. unless the context indicates otherwise-
“black people” is a generic term which means Africans,
“broad-based black economic empowerment” means the economicempower- 10 ment of all black people including women, workers,youth, people with disabilities
and peopleliving in rural areas through diverse but integrated socio-economic strategies that include. but are not limited to-
increasing the number of black people that manage, ownandcontrol
and enterprises assets; 15
facilitating ownership and management of enterprisesand productiw assets by communities, workers, cooperatives and other co1lectii.e enterprises;
human resource and skills development;
achieving equitablerepresentation in all occupationalcategories and 20 levels in the workforce:
preferential procurement; and
investment in enterprises that are owned or managedby black people:
“Council” means the Black Economic Empowerment AdvisoryCouncil estab- lished tly section 4:
“members” means members of the Council;
”hlinister” means the Minister of Trade and Industry:
“organ of state” means-
((1) a national or provincial department asdefined
Manageme1n9t 9A9ct, (Act No. 1 of 1999);
(bJ a municipality as contemplated in the Constitution:
(c,) Parliament:
It/) a provinciallegislature:and
(c) a constitutionalinstitutionlisted in Schedule I to the PublicFinance
Man1a9g9Ae9cmt.ent (Act No. 1 of 1999): 35 “prescribe” means prescribe by regulation;
“public entity” means a publicentitylisted in Schedule 2 or 3 to the Public FinanceManagementAct.1999 (Act No. 1 of 1999);
“strategy” rneans a strategy for broad-based black economicempowerment issued in terms of section 11: and 10 “this Act” includes any code of good practice or regulation made under this Act.
0b.jectives of Act
2. Thoebjectives of this Act are to facilitatberoad-based black economic etnpo\\’ermrntbv-
promoting economic transformation in order to enable meaningful participa- 45 tion of black people in the economy;
achie\inga substantial change in theracial composition of ownership and managementstructuresand in the skilled occupations of existingand new enterprises:
increasing the extent to which communities, workers. cooperatives and other 50 collective enterprisesownand manageexisting and new enterprisesand increasingtheiarccess to economicactivities, infrastructure and skills training:
Coloureds and Indians;
in the PublicFinance
30
25
?6 No. 25899 GOVERNMENT GAZETTE. 9 JANUARY 2004 ~~
Act No. 53,2003 BROAD-BASED BLACK ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT ACT, 2003
(d)
( e )
increasing the extent to which black women own and manage existingand
new enterprises, and increasing their accetosseconomic activities, infrastruc- ture and skills training;
promoting investment programmes that lead to broad-based and meaningful participation in the economy by black people in order to achieve sustainable 5 development and general prosperity;
(f) empowering rural and local communities by enabling access toeconomic activities. land, infrastructure, ownership and skills; and
( g ) promoting access to finance for black economic empowerment.
Interpretation of Act 10
3. Any person applying this Act must interpret its provisions so as- (u) to give effect to its objectives;and
(b) tocomply withthe Constitution.
Establishment of Black Economic EmpowermentAdvisory Council
4. The Black Economic Empowerment Advisory Council is hereby established. 15 Functions of Council
5. The Council must-
(a) advise government on black economic empowerment;
(6) review progress in achieving black economic empowerment;
(c) advise on draft codes of good practice which the Minister intends publishing 20
for comment in terms of section 9(5);
(d) advise on the developmenta,mendment or replacement of the strategy
referred to in section 11;
(e) if requested to do so, advise on draft transformation charters; and cf) facilitate partnerships between organs of state and the private sector
advance the objectives of this Act.
Composition of Council and appointmentof members
6. (1) The Council consistsof-
(a) thePresident, whoisthechairpersonoftheCouncil;
(h) the Minister, with the Minister’s Director-General as an alternate;
(c) three otheCr abinet Ministersa,ppointed by thPeresident, with
respective Directors-General as alternates;
(d) no fewer than 10 and no more than 15 othermembers appointed by the
President.
(2) When appointing membersin terms of subsection (l)(d),the President shall have 35
regard to the need for the Council-
( a ) to have appropriate expertise;
( b ) to represent different relevant constituencies including trade unions. business,
community-based organisations and academics.
(3) In appointing membersin terms of subsection (I)(d),the President shall follow an 40
appropriate consultative process.
(4) The Presidentshall appoint a CabinetMinister who is also a member of the
Council to act as chairperson of the Council in the President’s absence.
Constitution and rulesof Council
7. ( I ) The Minister must establish a constitution for the Council. 45
(2) The Ministermay amend the constitution of the Council fromtime to time, after consultation with the Council.
(3) The Council may, by resolution, and after consultation with the Minister. make rules to further regulate the proceedings of the Council.
that will 25
their
30
?practice
8 No. 25899 GOVERNMENT GAZETTE, 9 JANUARY 2004 Act No. 53.2003 BROAD-BABSLEADCOKNOMIC
EMPOWERMENT ACT, 2003 Remuneration and reimbursementof expenses
8. Council memberswill not be remunerated fortheir services, but will be reimbursed for expensesincurredbythemincarryingouttheir duties,asdeterminedbytheMinister. with the concurrence of the Minister of Finance.
Codes of good 5
9. ( 1) In order to promote the purposes of the Act, the Minister may by notice in the Gtrzetrr issue codes of good practice on black economicempowerment that may include–
((I)
(b)
( c )
((1)
(r)
(f)
the furtherinterpretationandefinition of broad-basedblack economic empowerment and the interpretation and definition of different categories of 10 black empowerment entities;
qualificationcriteria for preferentialpurposesforprocurement and other economic activities:
indicators to measure broad-based black economic empowerment:
theweighting to be attached to broad-based black economicempowerment 15 indicators referred to in paragraph (c);
guidelines for stakeholders in the relevant sectors of the economy to draw up transformation charters for their sector: and
any other matter necessary to achieve the objectives of this Act.
( 2 )A strategy issued by the Minister in terms of section 11 must be taken into account 20 in preparing any code of good practice.
( 3 )A code of good practice issued in terms of subsection ( 1) may specify- targets consistent with the objectives of this Act: and
O J ) the periodwithinwhichthosetargetsmust be achieved.
(4)In order to promote the achievement of equality of women, asprovided for in 25
section 912) of the Constitution. a code of good practice issued in terms of subsection ( 1) and any targets specified in a code of good practice in terms of subsection (3).may distinguish between black men and black women.
( 5 )The Minister must. before issuing, replacing or amending a code of good practice
i n terms of subsection (1)- 30
( u j publish the draftcode of good practice or amendmentin the Guzettr forpublic comment: and
ihj grant interested persons a period of at least 60 days to comment on the draft code of good practice or amendment. as the case may be.
Status of codes of good practice 13
10. E\,ery oryan of stateandpublic entity musttakeinto account and. as far as is reasonably possible. apply any relevantcode of good practice issued in terms of this Act In-
((// determining qualification criteriafor theissuing of licences. concessions or other authorisations in termlaswo;f any 40
(hJ developingand implementingapreferentialprocurementpolicy:
(c) determining qualification criteria for the sale of state-owned enterprises; and Id) developing criteria for entering into partnerships with the private sector.
Strategy for broad-basedblack economic empowerment
11. ( I ) The .Minister- 45 ( ( I ) must issue a strategy for broad-based black economic empowerment:
( h i may change or replace a strategy issued in terms of this section.
( 2 )A strategy in terms of this section must-
( ( / ) provide for an integrated co-ordinated and uniform approach to broad-based
black economicempowerment by all organs of state, publicentities. the 50 private sector. non-governmental organisations, local communities and other stakeholders:
7-
?10 No. 25899 GOVEG9RANZMETETNET, JANUARY 2004 Act No. 53,2003 BROAD-BASED BLAECOKNOMIC
EMPOWERMENTACT, 2003
( b ) develop a plan for financing broad-based black economic empowerment;
( c ) provide a system for organs of state, public entities and other enterprises to prepare broad-based black economic empowerment plans and to report on
compliance with those plans; and Act. (d) btehicsonsistent with
Transformation charters
12. The Minister must publish in the Gazette for general information and promote a transformation charter fora particular sector of the economy, if the Minister is satisfied that the charter-
5
( a ) has been developed by major stakeholders in that sectaonr:d 10 ( b ) advances the objectives of this Act.
Support services and funding of Council
13. (1) The Department of TradeandIndustrymustprovidetheCouncilwiththe necessary support services and funding out of money appropriated by Parliament for that purpose.
(2)The funds referred to in subsection (l),must be utilised for-
( a ) the establishment and operating costs of the Council: and
(h) the development andimplementation of a communication plan on broad-
based black economic empowerment.
Regulations
14. The Minister may make regulations with regard to any matter that it is necessary to prescribe in order to ensure the proper implementation of this Act.
Short title and commencement
15
20
15.ThisActiscalledtheBroad-BasedBlackEconomicEmpowermenAtct.2003.and comes into operation on a date to be determined by the President by proclamation in the 25 GLl:ette.
1 Oct 2012, 15:52 pm
@poppa69-274:
That is your choice once again but it is important to me. Race is part of my identity as an individual. It is my right to value it. It does not make me the reincarnation of Hitler.
You aren’t white so I am not even fussed whether you agree with me. My main gripe is with white liberals who are engaged in a suicidal social game of one-up-manship in who can be the “others” best friend. Individuals do not exist in a vacuum. We exist as part of a group and if that group’s collective action is detrimental to its future it is detrimental to the future of my children.
1 Oct 2012, 15:52 pm
Fair enough Fern but 99% of Sowetons live in abject poverty.
1 Oct 2012, 15:52 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-360: Indeed.
1 Oct 2012, 15:53 pm
Meyer gave Janjties and De Jongh 5 mins to prove themselves.
Janjties did well, considering the the limited time.
Meyer does himself no favours with decisions like he made on Saturday..
He’s lucky the result went their way.
Taute is class, but he cant be ahead of De Jongh considering he doesnt play 2nd center for his club.
He usually plays fullback and mean while DeJongh was part of the Bok set up originally.
If the politicians get involved then it’s a case of readdressing Apartheid Wrongs.
I don’t believe this, but Meyer needs to come better than 5 mins for Janjties and DeJongh.
Strange i say….
1 Oct 2012, 15:54 pm
china lots of people are living in squalor because the infrastructure is insufficient for upgrade.
in a place like diepsloot this is caused by their own people who received a stand and house from gov,they then illegally build extra rooms and toilets in the yard which they rent out.
now you have a case of the services being under strain cause of the extra connections.
lots of the land these people squat upon is zoned agricultural and to rezone to residential takes about 2 years,another way of fast tracking it is by a presidential pardon on the rezoning,it has never happened as far as i am aware of,our prez seem to have more pressing issues that that.
1 Oct 2012, 15:55 pm
@363
now you are talking ****.
when last have you been to soweto?
1 Oct 2012, 15:55 pm
@NZINCHINA-354:
yes, i have.
believe me, there’s worse in places like nigeria’s slums on lake lagos.
——————-
their spitting just farking disgusts me to my soul.
i’ve seen chinks gargle and spit a very phlegmy after dinner throat spit residue right into the KITCHEN… YES THAT’S RIGHT….THE KITCHEN sink of the open plan apartment we were in, in clear radio distance of everyone present… not too mention line of sight….
i could only wince and say to someone in ear shot that its ‘quaintly cultural’ i suppose.
i really thought much, much worse.
1 Oct 2012, 15:56 pm
@STBUR-362: I learned rather late
in life that all people should be treated with dignity & respect.One would
not say that judging by some of my posts.
I do try however to prevent it becoming a hollow slogan.
1 Oct 2012, 15:56 pm
Actually Bakkies China as a country has everything, don’t everything you read in the anti Chinese American based press, you would be hard pressed to find another country that offers more from a tourism
standpoint
1 Oct 2012, 15:56 pm
Anyone know what has happened to the Shark triplets?
1 Oct 2012, 15:57 pm
what about the streetkids of bombay.
sa is third world,not first world like nz.
compare apples with apples
1 Oct 2012, 15:58 pm
@rangerman-279:
Of course! They Trekked because they didn’t like the weather. Seriously dude don’t quote government propaganda.
I will grant you the “horrific oppression” was mostly towards the end. But the events and conflict with the British was happening for centuries. From the day the Brits annexed the Cape during the Napoleonic Wars they were butting heads. Even till today a large section of English speaking white South Africans look down on Afrikaans speakers, a hang over from their Empire days. I cannot imagine how much worse it was back in the day.
1 Oct 2012, 15:59 pm
The baba:
Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Act: http://www.info.gov.za/view/DownloadFileAction?id=68031
The thinking before birth:
http://www.empowerdex.co.za/Portals/5/docs/dti%20BEE%20STRATEGY.pdf
CONCLUSION:
let’s consider the number one complaint of white people against BEE: it’s against our Constitutional rights! Ok then, let’s look at the relevant section of the Bill of Rights: http://www.info.gov.za/documents/constitution/1996/96cons2.htm#9
“3. The state may not unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds, including race, gender, ***, pregnancy, marital status, ethnic or social origin, colour, sexual orientation, age, disability, religion, conscience, belief, culture, language and birth.4. No person may unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds in terms of subsection (3). National legislation must be enacted to prevent or prohibit unfair discrimination.”
AHA! The worry worts are right. It’s right there in the Constitution. Oh wait, there’s a fifth point:”5. Discrimination on one or more of the grounds listed in subsection (3) is unfair unless it is established that the discrimination is fair.”
Now, fair discrimination is an interesting contradiction, but South Africa is full of contradictions isn’t it? In this specific case, you can see the Government’s reasoning as well. The ANC couldn’t come to power in 1994 and tell the majority of formerly-oppressed South Africans: “Well chaps, now that we’re in power, the fight is over. Yes, you’ve been placed at practically every conceivable disadvantage, but that’s all over now. Good luck and remember to vote again in a few years!”
Ultimately, nobody wants discrimination, or even race. However, these concepts are as South African as braais and biltong thanks to our political heritage, and most often when you dismantle anything you use the same tools that it was constructed with in the first place. It’s a process, it’s going to take time, if anything it hasn’t been moving as quickly as it should (further reading: Second Transition discussion document – http://images.businessday.co.za/ANCMaindisc.pdf), and if you don’t agree with it just because you’re suddenly disadvantaged because of it, think of the millions of black South Africans who are at a far greater structural disadvantage than you’ll ever be in.
Weak argument? Anybody gotta better 1?
1 Oct 2012, 15:59 pm
china, the funny thing about the chinks for me is the fact they’ve had continuos civilisation for more than 3000 years… i mean wtf is up with some of their behaviour?
1 Oct 2012, 16:00 pm
Bakkies two wrongs don’t make a right though, yes that is a terrible part of Chinese behaviour you won’t find the young educated ones doing it but its a problem nevertheless.
1 Oct 2012, 16:01 pm
go and search on the interwebs and see how many miners die in china each year.
it is shocking.
1 Oct 2012, 16:02 pm
Bakkies the word Chink is pretty offensive do you really have to use it?
1 Oct 2012, 16:03 pm
yes that’s my point china,
china has very ugly parts to it as much as it has beauty too.
its the same for south africa and just about anywhere in the world really.
i’m sure the low income non white/maori parts of nz are not the coolest places to go walking for a tourist.
i’m only going on once were warriors here but i dont think i’m far off.
1 Oct 2012, 16:04 pm
@PielNeus-284:
Actually I all my grand parents are from Europe (Dutch and Irish) so that doesn’t apply to me. However, only liberals idiots and Hitler are concerned with purity. Interesting coincidence?
Race has never been a scientific classification. That is just a spurious argument the libs came up with to derail conversations. It is an ad hoc social organizational term. If someone had a little bit of whatever in him and you can’t tell the difference between him and myself then well… he is white.
I want my kids and their progeny to look like me.
Just because you don’t value own identify do not try and force your views on me.
1 Oct 2012, 16:04 pm
@STBUR-356: “I can easily bear hardship if I know that our group’s posterity will benefit but people like Sharkspedigree is essentially the same people that are in favour of undermining our core territories in Europe to such an extent that we as a people will disappear.”
Ok Himmler. Firstly, you know absolutely nothing about me (which is fortunate for me, as I have no desire to be contacted by Die fuckingSuidlanders)so I refer you BACK to my previous post 350.
In fact, let me give it you again, as you might have missed it:
@STBUR-281: But you have no idea who my people are. Just because I share a skin colour with someone, does not make him/her MY people.
My people are those who share my ideals, values, fears and hopes – and as hard as this might be for you to believe: my people just happen to be white, black, yellow, brown, pink, beige and off white. Go figure.
I am NO part of your ‘group’ because I happen to have a fuckingwhiteskin.
Now please stop referring to me as ‘the liberal white bi tch who will be responsible for the demise of your people in Europe and beyond….’.
If you want to call me anything, call me a HUMAN, as that is how I identify myself.
1 Oct 2012, 16:06 pm
@STBUR-356: I don’t share you fear for the survival of the Afrikaner. I think we’ll be okay, but maybe I don’t put as much value on this demographic integrity you speak of. As long as individuals have the will to preserve what they deem important, the culture won’t go away.
What does grate me though is when foreigners with a very shallow insight into the situation here, feel compelled to make all sorts of judgmental comments. More often than not, these foreigners are from some former colony themselves. So you’ve got to ask yourself, if you’re sitting in New Zealand or Canada or the USA, and you’re of European decent, and you live in a nice house and hold down a good job, should you not also feel guilty about something? At which point did the oppression of the indigenous peoples cease to be an issue? Just because the numbers were in your favour at some point in your own violent colonisation, you’re in the majority now and have access to the best jobs, real estate, opportunities etc.
Most middle class whites in SA have no interest in politics, nor do they have feelings of superiority over anyone else. They just grapple with the same issues as people anywhere on the planet: finding work, paying off a home, keeping a marriage together, raising children safely, making friends, dealing with the burden of aging parents, coping with sickness, disabilities etc. They’re no different to someone living in Sydney or San Francisco or Sao Paulo.
It would do the critics good to think of this whenever they’re about to trot off some one-size-fits-all, clichéd apartheid rant.
1 Oct 2012, 16:06 pm
Fern the street kids of Bombay are a different situation than your townships which were created around race.
1 Oct 2012, 16:07 pm
@NZINCHINA-376:
fark china, have you experienced it too? it is hard to digest on the best of days.
@NZINCHINA-378:
yes you are right, i apologise.
i mean it in a nickname kind of way. you kow, like ****’s or **** or frogs or krauts or that sort of thing.
are ther any other slang terms for chinese?
1 Oct 2012, 16:08 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-256:
Even if he’s dead.
1 Oct 2012, 16:09 pm
@Fern-377:
marikana would be a larf to the chinese gov.
1 Oct 2012, 16:09 pm
p a k i ‘ s
j a p s
1 Oct 2012, 16:11 pm
Its late I have a big day tomorrow, cheers.
1 Oct 2012, 16:12 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-346: Kom now tell me, lets get it off the line, what did i miss?
1 Oct 2012, 16:14 pm
@rangerman-288:
Karl Marx is all about “we are all equal” without regard to borders, race or nationality because his hate was of the rich aristocracy that oppressed the peasants. Liberals want the whole world to be one. Which is a lovely idea but is not based in reality. Groups (including race) do exist and they use those identities to their advantage. Marx writings has heavily influenced and essentially warped the Western liberal ideology that started off being much more libertarian. What happened in the East was merely a more virulent and destructive mutation without the perhaps moderating influence of the libertarians that were focused in Europe.
Essentially there are many parrallels between the communist East and what is happening now in the West. Non-conformity is harshly punished socially and economically. Divergence of thought and opinions that stray to far from the party line is ruthlessly persecuted in the media.
Right here on this blog is a perfect example. I say I want my kids to be white (which is my identity) and prosper, not one single word about hurting anyone, but I am equated to Hitler. Yet none of you say a word about our racist constitution. It would be laughable if it wasn’t so sad.
1 Oct 2012, 16:17 pm
@PielNeus-389:
the happy coincedence of south africa being the most successful country in all of africa and its having such a large non black population.
1 Oct 2012, 16:18 pm
cheers china
i’m also off
cheers all
1 Oct 2012, 16:18 pm
@STBUR-390:
Have you read the constitution?
1 Oct 2012, 16:27 pm
@rangerman-298:
I also call it as I see it…
Heh the “boring” angle. Another effective tactic of the left in how they have managed to equate your own group with a negative connotation. It goes hand in hand with denying your right/desire to exist.
You are white, my friend, I don’t see how that makes you boring. You can change shirts or religion but you can’t change your race. It is more part of your identity than anything else. That is why the left has specifically targetted race as the aspect of yourself you must give up if you don’t want to be “racist”.
The fact remains the no other racial group in the world considers themselves boring. What type of sad individual does that make you? Only white liberals have decided they are boring, and should rather miscegenate to make live more “exciting”. Wtf dude.
There is no moral imperative or logic basis to your view point. You have arbitrary decided that something which you are not is better. How is it better? You are just scared. Scared of the enormity of the responsibility of valuing, preserving and improving the rich legacy your forefathers gave you.
But ja I agree the Afrikaners do a decent job of preserving their identity but they are under constant pressure to join the ranks of people like yourself where the “other” is more interesting and of greater value.
I also don’t see where I talked about exclusion. The more replies I see the more I can see you people reply out of practiced denialism rife with preconceived notions.
1 Oct 2012, 16:27 pm
@STBUR-390: You say being ‘white’ is your identity? Well, that about sums you up then……
I can list about 250 things that combine to give me an identity before I even get close to my skin colour.
If being white is the only thing that identifies you, I pity you just a teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeny tinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnny bit.
1 Oct 2012, 16:34 pm
you gotta love it, Fern is an expert on township life/conditions because he does work there and people tell him.
maybe skop is also an expert on suburbian life as he does work there and people must tell him
1 Oct 2012, 16:35 pm
you gotta love it, Fern is an expert on township life/conditions because he does work there and people tell him.
maybe skop is also an expert on suburban life as he does work there and people must tell him
1 Oct 2012, 16:35 pm
@Transformation-396:
Are you questioning his expertise?
1 Oct 2012, 16:36 pm
@Transformation-397:
Just kidding
The idiot said it has gotten worse since 1996 when NZChina was here.
1 Oct 2012, 16:37 pm
trans i am saying i get more exposure to township life than your avg whitey.
simple.
1 Oct 2012, 16:40 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-368: That Phglemy clearing of the throat is a calculated insult.
Nathan Street Kowloon street vendors by law musy say”copy” when
they want to sell something. Hence “copy Cartier” “copy rolex” is
often heard.After a while you ignore them,and then the
phglemy throat clearing & spitting is evidentMaybe NZ in China can confirm
this.
1 Oct 2012, 16:41 pm
@PielNeus-304:
“You was equated aan Hitler when you want to assure the survival of YOUR group, when you justificated Apartheid AND claim Whites have been the only ones who have done good to build SA – check your first post NAAIER! Youse line of reasoning is ezactly the same as HITLER, you cannot deny it. DIT is hoe hy have the following did gain!
QED
Answer me, are whites superior to blacks?”
Dude, I can imagine you frothing at the mouth. You are so excited you can scarcely type. You aren’t white are you? In interest of full disclosure so that we can place your comments in context. The hate is practically boiling off you; just like Hitler?
How does wanting to ensure the survival of my group equate to Hitler? Hitler wanted to rule the world, hardly the same.
I didn’t justify Apartheid, I said it was inevitable and out of a desire to ensure Afrikaner survival as a minority and not due to racism. Not the same as justifying. Your reading comprehension is not very good. In fact I have explicitly stated I am against all laws that interfere with individual freedom, but I guess in your excitement you skipped over that part.
This is what I mean you have your own pre-conceived notions of what I am so you come up with comments that have nothing to do with my posts. I said the reason for black poverty was the massive technological and social gap when Europeans came to Africa. Apartheid was not in any other African countries yet they have the same/worse problems as SA. So logic dictates that there must be another reason for black poverty, and that reason is the original development gap.
As for racial equality, no I do not believe races are equal. Are the differences enough to cause inequality forever? I don’t know because liberals have banned any investigation into that field.
But this is all typical liberal agenda BS in how to derail an argument and demonize the person that is expressing concern for his own people’s tribulations.
Please explain to me how the SA constitution is not racist?
1 Oct 2012, 16:46 pm
@Dawn-398: no not at all…
@Fern-400: it’s a cool, not questioning, just joshing…
you’re quite right in a lot of instances the services have become worse as the ANC engendered a culture of “non-payment of service” during the ’80s and when they took over the municipalities, they STILL didn’t collect rates because they wanted to “buy” votes, now cities like east london (for example) have become worse – let alone concrete “native units” like Mdantsane.
1 Oct 2012, 16:48 pm
@Fern-332:
Did you not read my post? I am not concern with purity like the liberals/Hitler is. Race is an ad hoc social construct but broadly speaking it still defines the group I am most closely associated with.
Because if what you say is true then why do I not qualify for BEE? You are afterall insinuating that I am black. In fact why is there even a definition for racism?
You can butter your bread on both sides.
1 Oct 2012, 16:49 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-391: So whitey superior to blackie then? ergo of wat, komm nou nail it to the whipping post
1 Oct 2012, 16:52 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-350:
You are a victim of liberal self delusion so I can understand how you see it like that. Denial is the most difficult stage.
1 Oct 2012, 16:53 pm
@Fern-351:
And that you can thank your ANC government for.
1 Oct 2012, 16:55 pm
@katman-382: 2,nd last paragraph
sums it up perfectly.
1 Oct 2012, 16:56 pm
@PielNeus-359: Your other stuff was funnier.
1 Oct 2012, 16:58 pm
@NZINCHINA-383: And the kids of
Bombay were crea ted around caste.Difference ?
1 Oct 2012, 17:02 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-381: I think of my people as those I have a lot in common with, which is restricted mostly to the better looking members of Mensa.
1 Oct 2012, 17:19 pm
@STBUR-402:
“The hate is practically boiling off you”
- waar die vokk sien jy dit? Just becaus i tell n oke vokkof, reg? Nee I love all, even you my udderly confused vriend.
“How does wanting to ensure the survival of my group equate to Hitler?”
- Seun BUR you make it too easy. Hitler had his group too neh? just vermin the jews had no place in his group neh? So in your case the Kafffirs (ekkskus assebliefg) moet just stay, not exterminate, just need labour – nicely done, chop chop, boer maak n plan.
- Moenie forget you said so poetical ” Hitler took a nice idea and messed it up”. O my man, ek sien you are so lost.
“I didn’t justify Apartheid, I said it was inevitable and out of a desire to ensure Afrikaner survival as a minority and not due to racism.”
- So if the native guys were white here, you still wouldve done Apsartheid… Wait how would that work, but it must, if you say NO RACIAL MOTIVATION for Apartheid. Gaan vir a slap and tickle man dis a lag a minute.
- Only inevitable if your holy group is superior, neh. Otherwise why not same policy you asking ANC for now? Pleease, you did dirty on the native peeps, cos they black, sies!
“As for racial equality, no I do not believe races are equal.”
- OK so now if you wanna get logic, lets call her over to sit with us…
So if you believe that, how come you want laws protecting equality for all…
No hypocricy there, no psychotic schizm in your space time continuations?
Basicaly you agree with racist laws? if it was White Economic Empowerment, STBUR would be lekker hey?
1 Oct 2012, 17:29 pm
“My people” are Stormers fans that bel?eve next year w?ll be our year.
1 Oct 2012, 17:35 pm
@Tbozknows-365:
Picking players based on skin colour does not “address the wrongs of Apartheid”.
1 Oct 2012, 17:39 pm
@ryecatcher-369:
Really… wow I have never seen you complain when a Afrikaans hating non-white or English speaker calls people D.u.t.c.h.m.a.n. But the double standards are usually pretty rife around here which is what percipitated my outburst.
I am less worried about being giving me “respect” (whatever that is) than about my and my group’s survival. Besides if you are so about respect then having a non-racial discriminating constitution should be important to you. But since no one here complains about it and either explicitly or tacitly accepts BEE (which is legislated racism) your words ring somewhat hollow.
1 Oct 2012, 17:43 pm
@PielNeus-374:
The same effect would have been achieved by basing “empowerment” on people’s individual economic circumstances. The racial component of the legislation is there because it is essentially not about redress but about disenfranchisement.
1 Oct 2012, 17:44 pm
@NZINCHINA-376:
Really? You and your countrymen seem to be happy with legislated discrimination against whites in SA based on the logic “you had it coming”. If you aren’t why are you not calling for the boycott of SA from international sport?
1 Oct 2012, 17:48 pm
check how Verwoerd’s spawn over here want’s to try and classify his special brand of ethnicity as ‘non racist’ yet if he had a choice about it he would backtrack this country to 1948 or 1961 and deny 85% of the population any type of humane existence.. or the vote… then he gets offended when compared with Hitler while his white supremacy ideology is exactly along the same lines that Hitler and some of his own ancestry espoused.
1 Oct 2012, 17:51 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-381:
There are somethings you cannot change. One is the fact that you are white and the other is that you are liberal. Thus you are a white liberal and your ilk are responsible for instituting and supporting an ideology that would be a danger to any group of people that embrace it.
All I know about you is what you have told me, i.e. that you are a white liberal. I cannot place you in that group myself, you yourself do that by your thoughts and actions.
Just because you choose a different social group does not negate the other aspects of your identity. There is a difference between you not valuing those aspects and it not existing.
And yes, I have a huge problem with you because you are the ones that endanger my children’s future.
1 Oct 2012, 17:54 pm
@Dawn-393:
Are you aware what BEE is?
1 Oct 2012, 17:58 pm
@STBUR-419: what you doing here in Africa.. it don’t belong to you.. it never belonged to you.. and hence your children are not African they are displaced Europeans.. and aliens to Africa.. so if you need or want to identify with the population of your ‘choice’ and ideological persuasion you are in the wrong place my friend you better pack up shop and fck off back to where you once belonged…
1 Oct 2012, 17:59 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-395:
Race is part of everyone’s identity yes. So is my language, religion (if I had one), place of birth, nationality, sports that I support, profession, hair colour etc etc. Its relative importance is of course influence how it can be levied in political context for economic gain.
This country has economic legislation based on that aspect of your identity that you wish did not exist. But it does exist. Nothing you say can change that.
1 Oct 2012, 18:15 pm
@STBUR-422: you not only had racist economic legislation enforced by your illegitimate government you also had political legislation enforced by your illegitimate government for a long period of this countries recent history, plus you had abhorrent racist laws in place denying human beings any kind of semblance of human rights or existence, and now you crying like a stuffed pig because some of those abhorrent legislative conditions your supremacist racist government enforced illegitimately are trying to be reversed and redressed, and you don’t want to be compared with Hitler.. you and Hitler are same kind.. no different whatsoever.
1 Oct 2012, 18:16 pm
@PielNeus-412:
Why does this site not have a quotation function?
—-
“The hate is practically boiling off you”
- waar die vokk sien jy dit? Just becaus i tell n oke vokkof, reg? Nee I love all, even you my udderly confused vriend.
—-
So are you white or not?
—-
“How does wanting to ensure the survival of my group equate to Hitler?”
- Seun BUR you make it too easy. Hitler had his group too neh? just vermin the jews had no place in his group neh? So in your case the Kafffirs (ekkskus assebliefg) moet just stay, not exterminate, just need labour – nicely done, chop chop, boer maak n plan.
—-
That makes no sense. You make no logic connection. Your just rambling. Mandela, just like you and everyone else, also has his group so is he also Hitler incarnate?
—-
- Moenie forget you said so poetical ” Hitler took a nice idea and messed it up”. O my man, ek sien you are so lost.
“I didn’t justify Apartheid, I said it was inevitable and out of a desire to ensure Afrikaner survival as a minority and not due to racism.”
—-
Yeah, the idea was the Germans should be proud and throw off the economic shackles and guilt that the rest of Europe had saddled them with. Then they went to far and invaded Poland… bleh. That said though, the Germans are superior. I wish I was one. Or Japanese. Both those groups are something special.
—-
- So if the native guys were white here, you still wouldve done Apsartheid… Wait how would that work, but it must, if you say NO RACIAL MOTIVATION for Apartheid. Gaan vir a slap and tickle man dis a lag a minute.
—-
No, I said racism wasn’t. Racism = hate of the other. if there were only whites in SA obviously there would not have been Apartheid because well… there would only have been one group. White/Afrikaner survival was at risk due to racial reason however.
I realize that a man with such limited reasoning skills such as yourself will struggle with the subtle distinction but then I am not havign this discussion for your benefit. Those that are able to think more deeply will read this and perhaps pause to reconsider their attitudes. People like you just go with what they are told.
—-
- Only inevitable if your holy group is superior, neh. Otherwise why not same policy you asking ANC for now? Pleease, you did dirty on the native peeps, cos they black, sies!
—-
Dude please to write sense. I have no idea what you are saying. The ANC policy now is Apartheid-light.
—-
“As for racial equality, no I do not believe races are equal.”
- OK so now if you wanna get logic, lets call her over to sit with us…
So if you believe that, how come you want laws protecting equality for all…
No hypocricy there, no psychotic schizm in your space time continuations?
Basicaly you agree with racist laws? if it was White Economic Empowerment, STBUR would be lekker hey?
—-
*sigh* Racial equality in terms of genetics =/ racial equality before the law. The former means that we are not equal in our natural abilities. The latter means that we have equal opportunity to achieve what we can with our natural abilities.
BEE is not racial equality before the law because it actively discriminates against whites. It is the same as Apartheid.
So are you white or not? I suspect you are coloured. In which case it is obvious you would support racial discrimination against the people you hate. Proves my point, proves that the reason Apartheid was implemented was correct and it makes a mockery of your “attempt” at an argument.
1 Oct 2012, 18:24 pm
@fitz1ella-418:
Nope. Where did I say to deny anyone a vote? Making stuff up is a liberal trait but I suppose you are not white.
(1) I stand for equality before the law. The government can assist those that are in poverty to gain education etc and let your natural abilities take you where you will.
(2) I expect my own people to respect their heritage and nurture their future.
Hitler did neither of those. But in that respect you resemble him quite closely. You are jealous of white wealth and instead of trying to bring the rest of the country up you would rather focus on bringing them down. Hitler name calling is far more apt for you, my racist little friend.
1 Oct 2012, 18:24 pm
@STBUR-424: so your apartheid ideology enshrined by your forbears and hero’s Verwoerd and Vorster and Botha etc. was ‘correct’ in your deduction.. this is your conclusion to address the ills of the world.. separate populations based on ideological and ethnic grounds.. you a sad sick sorry sod.. better you fck outa here fast because this continent will never be home for you.
1 Oct 2012, 18:26 pm
@fitz1ella-421:
Hello goffel racist. Been waiting to see your head pop up.
I would happily swap every white in Africa for every non-white in Europe.
1 Oct 2012, 18:28 pm
@fitz1ella-423:
So BEE is not racist? If you support BEE you support Apartheid btw. It is the only logical conclusion.
1 Oct 2012, 18:32 pm
@fitz1ella-426:
No I did not say Apartheid was correct. I said it was inevitable due to the enertia of History. In the same way perhaps that BEE is. However the issue is that the West boycotted SA because of Apartheid due to its pathological altruism but won’t do the same to BEE.
What you think (as a non-white) is irrelevant in this conversation. This is an internal white people’s issue and only we can fix it. But keep talking, little mirror. You are the best illustration of why white people should jettison its marxist-liberal ideology than anyone else on here.
1 Oct 2012, 18:34 pm
@STBUR-404:Absurd logic.How does my treating people of colour with dignity and respect equate to supporting BEE or,lowering of standards which you and I grew up with.A lot of what you say makes sense.But I will always strive to treat people with respect.Ironically,it is the way of Afrikaners.My wife is one.The only people who ever refer to
Dutchmen on this site are.unfortunately,Kiwis. She would moer them in a face to face confrontation.My children and grandchild have been taught to never use
the Arabic word for unbeliever.Respect.
1 Oct 2012, 18:37 pm
@STBUR-425: the majority vote is what you and your entrenched ideological white politics denied 85% of the population in this country for as long as you possibly could get away with it.. and then you were happy as a pig in sh’t because then your white minority status was protected by your own insular and illegitimate ideological laws and government..
In which frame of possibility is a white minority government ever going to uplift the education of the masses here.. which it did the exact opposite for as long as it illegitimately stayed in power.?.. your own illegitimately elected government denied equal education rights to the majority of the population for how long..?? and now you crying like a stuffed pig because some of those abhorrent legislative conditions your supremacist racist government enforced illegitimately are trying to be reversed and redressed and you want to pretend your racist policy is a liberal construct.. when it precisely the entrenchment of your racist and ideological desire to retain your special brand of ethic identity as ‘apart’..if not attempting to entrench by your warped sense of standard as ‘superior’.
1 Oct 2012, 18:37 pm
@fitz1ella-426: Skop.The use of the term “Verwoerds spawn” does not become you.Come on pal.We have to live together.
1 Oct 2012, 18:43 pm
@stormer in a teacup-411: Have never seen a good looking Mensa member.
1 Oct 2012, 18:45 pm
@STBUR-427: you and your kind are the absolute problem in creation.. your inherent racism is what precludes this human being from ever being civilized.. you equate apartheid with your brand of civilization which is barbaric to the extreme.. and you white barbarian want to prtray to the world that you are civilized.. you are the opposite of civilization.. in fact you and Hitler are singing off the exact same hymn sheet.. put you and your ideology in Hitlers socio political situation and you will do exactly what Hitler did.. as you would do exactly what Verwoerd or Vorster did.. you are a THROWBACK to the absolute WORST traits and principles of humanity that ever existed .. and you and your type are as inhuman as those you despise..
You actually believe that the European is superior in genetic and intelligent make up… your ideology reeks of outright apartheid style racism yet you conclude with your warped sense of illogical conclusion that it is the liberal who has placed you in the predicament that you find yourself in…
you were never African so what the hell are you doing in Africa.. if Africa disturbs you to the extent it does you should be gone from here on the first flight out.. wtf is your deliberating delay?
1 Oct 2012, 18:45 pm
@ryecatcher-430:
You are obviously not paying much attention. D-man is an oft used term by all sorts on here, certainly not just the Kiwi’s. And they are mostly Maori’s gloating on here mostly BECAUSE they think they are thumbing their noses at white Saffers. I don’t see you complaining when they do however.
I still don’t see where you get this idea I am saying people should be “disrespected”. I just say goffel because terms like “lilly white”, “old white men” and D-man etc are often used to denote things a non-white thinks are bad. They are racially charged. But since the we have double standards I decided I am not interested in being polite anymore if it is going to be a one way street.
And accepting BEE which is racist laws in action to discriminate against you and your own does undermine your whole stance. If you accept racism in one form how can you then decry it in another?
1 Oct 2012, 18:47 pm
@fitz1ella-431:
I don’t know, but the black majority government doesn’t seem to be doing too much about it either. *chuckles* Maybe it is just not possible?
But you rambling so much it is difficult to follow what you are saying. So do you agree that BEE is racist or not?
1 Oct 2012, 18:50 pm
@fitz1ella-434:
lolwot?
This is why the white man invented punctuation.
1 Oct 2012, 18:52 pm
@ryecatcher-432: find a better name for this racially obsessed white ethnic protectionist garbage.. spawn is actually kind.
1 Oct 2012, 18:58 pm
@fitz1ella-438:
I must be lucky because I already have a name for you, goffel.
1 Oct 2012, 18:59 pm
@STBUR-436: what do you actually want.. a little piece of Africa to call your own..? you are a minority.. did it ever sink into your racially obsessed insular head that you in fact are the minority here NOT the majority.?. so unfortunately for you in a democracy the majority calls the shots…unless the entrenched government is enforced into power by illegitimate means.. which it was here for far too long.. and hence ALL the unjust policy and racist entrenched laws in this country gave you the leg up in society you did not deserve legitimately.. you obtained it illegitimately by DENYING equal rights, education and status to the majority while you had your lily white arse slung in the African sun.
1 Oct 2012, 19:00 pm
@STBUR-439: why don’t you call me a k’affir because that is actually what you are thinking … white barbarian scum
1 Oct 2012, 19:02 pm
@STBUR-436: I do not accept BEE.
And maoris are New Zealanders.I have children growing up in this enviroment
and I do what I think is best for them. That does not make me anybody,s
quisling,least of all yours.This stance does not make me accept what i
acknowledge as the new apartheid(As you put it).I am too old for this ****.
B ut I still try to treat everybody with respect(And dont always do so )
So do not criticise me for what I am and what I believe in.
Can a leopard change its spots?Or a Nubian its skin? I am a product
of my enviroment as are you.
Fecking philosophical No?
1 Oct 2012, 19:03 pm
@fitz1ella-440:
No we can live in the same country but we certainly need a non-racist constitution, repeal BEE and stop any and all talk about quotes, integration etc. Finally whites should jettison their love-affair with marxist-liberalism and celebrate your history and future as distinct part of South Africa.
Oh and you also need the unwashed masses to vote with some intelligence. But pigs can fly.
1 Oct 2012, 19:05 pm
@fitz1ella-441:
White barbarian scum is it? *lol* I have proud barbarian ancestors. Goffel is so much funnier because reminds me of the word floppiness.
1 Oct 2012, 19:07 pm
@ryecatcher-442:
Good if you don’t accept BEE. I hope you have the balls to say that in public infront of your friends and colleagues.
Ja, I know some Maori’s are NZers but it is interesting they it nearly always a Maori NZer that like to come thumb their noses here on Keo at what they believe are mostly white Saffers. Yet they like to cast the first racist label? Such hypocrites and underlies my whole argument today.
Anyway, off home.
1 Oct 2012, 19:12 pm
STBUR you’ve made your point of view very clear today.
I think we should all agree to disagree.
Otherwise we be here all night.
1 Oct 2012, 19:12 pm
@fitz1ella-438: Human being.Fellow countrymaN
1 Oct 2012, 19:13 pm
@STBUR-443: what you so sh’t scared about BEE for … you had WEE for about 350 years here which you never deserved.. you just usurped every resource on this continent for your own insatiable barbaric ends.. now you want to cry like a little white stuffed piggy barbarian because the boot is on the other foot for a change..
If you want and need your European ethnicity protected to allow you some more sunning your lily white fanny under the African sun.. then the best solution for you is to fck off back to Europe where you and your barbarian ancestors made such a success out of it they chucked you out because the bus was full back when you came sailing over here with so much promise filling your insatiable barbarous eyes.
1 Oct 2012, 19:15 pm
@STBUR-445: sPEAK TO YOU SOON,HOPEFULLY.NOT TO PREACH.
1 Oct 2012, 19:15 pm
@STBUR-437: Wrong.
writing invented around 2500 BCE, not by whitey I’m afraid.
Wanna know who invented Mathamatics, not Whitey.
Who build first permanent structures?
Not Whitey
First sea-going craft?
Not whitey.
Domesticated animals? Not Whitey.
1 Oct 2012, 19:18 pm
@STBUR-445: bALLS(READ TESTICLES)
A BIT WITHERED THESE DAYS.
1 Oct 2012, 19:20 pm
@STBUR-443: what is so racist about this constitution.. your previous illegitimate legislation was what .. humanitarian?
are you that fck’d in the head that you actually condone your repressive governance for all of your illegitimate existence on this continent .. and now you want to cry out in repressed anguish at the injustice of BEE or the current constitution..??
You better fck off back to Europe pal this place will never be what it was ever again..
1 Oct 2012, 19:24 pm
I suggest Sweden or Norway, like our friend Dusky.
1 Oct 2012, 19:25 pm
@ryecatcher-447: try tell that to the k’affir (goffel) lover
1 Oct 2012, 19:27 pm
@STBUR-443:
I have never heard such a load of pseudo intellectual claptrap for quite a while now. Have you actually read Das Kapital? Marx says nothing about race and the only groups are those based on class. Ironically, the National Party had its roots in the SACP and grew by giving protected employment to the poor white Afrikaaner.
As for identifying with the “white” group, which particular group of whites is that?
1 Oct 2012, 19:28 pm
“Goffel” is actually derogatory coloured slang for a prostitute.
1 Oct 2012, 19:32 pm
yeah these k’affir loving barbarians should all fck off back to their ancestral Valhalla.. they hang around here and cry about all their lily white spilled milk in Africa when they were never ever African ever to begin with… gaan kak daai anderkant in die wit gesneeude mielies oorkant by die barbiere se plaas waar jy eintlik vandaan kom Jan Van Riebeek se ou nooi en Verwoerd se seun…
1 Oct 2012, 19:35 pm
so that’s what I am.. a colored prostitute in slang.. nice to know I found my true heritage after so many lifetimes of suffering under delusions of ethnic grandeur.
1 Oct 2012, 19:38 pm
@PielNeus-450: poor whitey he actually seriously believes he is the custodian of everything civilized about this creation.. how fckng deluded can the poor backward barbarous idiot actually be?
1 Oct 2012, 19:45 pm
@456 dawn
yip or sometimes its even used to refer to a not-so-pretty woman… as in ” my bru wat maak jy by daai goffel! ”
so I dunno wa val stburnard uit.
1 Oct 2012, 19:52 pm
@Dawn-456: I know lots of Whiteys back in the day that used to use the term as a general fit for any non white woman.
1 Oct 2012, 20:02 pm
Keo.co.za at its finest today
1 Oct 2012, 20:23 pm
@fitz1ella-457: Come on Skop.Despite
your rants and our differences I have always thought that you were better
than that.Where does reconciliation start?Are you the end?
1 Oct 2012, 20:42 pm
@STBUR-248: check this white moron crying like a stuffed pig when that is exactly what he was doing for the first 350 – 400 years of his illegitimate existence on a continent that was never his or his peoples to begin with
1 Oct 2012, 20:49 pm
@ryecatcher-463: what is reconciliation? do you see any level of ‘reconciliation’ in this moron’s logic?
this poor moron is crying like a stuffed white pig because his illegitimate ‘rights’ or rather ‘prejudicial privileges’ have been taken away from him…and not even so.. he still enjoys privileges as a result of his white ethnicity and classification above the majority of this country population yet still has the audacity and gall to cry and moan as if he ‘deserves’ a more favorable slice of the action than he actually deserves, under his ‘peoples’ oppressive ideological legislation for far too long he now wants to be afforded the equality he was NEVER ever willing to afford others..
If hypocrisy is what this idiot is crying about he represents the epitome of the term.
1 Oct 2012, 21:29 pm
@fitz1ella-459: only enemy in the mirror, fitzy
1 Oct 2012, 21:53 pm
@fitz1ella-464: he has lived for 300 years?
probably exp[lains why he is smarter than you (even if i dont agree with eyerything he says).
because its clear you are the thickest plank to ever drive a keyboard.
1 Oct 2012, 22:07 pm
@rangerman-467: listen you little fucknut ******** .. you want thick go crawl up your pseudo boertjies little fcknutanus
this fckup arsehole STBUR moron that you now want to go creep up his over fed nazi ideology backside with your pathetic excuse as being a little rancid fckng whitearse liberal punkass, just like your two faced little boertjie gone wrong pseudo liberal anglicized prick bumchum is a fckng IDIOT supreme.. just like you are pratassed little fanny wobbling scottish whitey colony hopping doos.
his ALIEN ‘people’ have usurped a place in Africa which they are NOT indigenous to.. just like you are neither.. and this little punkass prick is crying like a fat white pig that his ‘privileged’ utopia has been taken away from him.. who the fck are you whitearse.. a nobody who thinks you are important??.. well you AIN’T .. get it THROUGH your thick white barbarian brain…
1 Oct 2012, 22:20 pm
@fitz1ella-468: Is this really all you have? Night after night of potty mouthed rants on a rugby blog. Who on earth would want to be you?
1 Oct 2012, 22:26 pm
@katman-469: what you doing here kntface.. you and your little pseudo arsed scottish ‘african’ bumchum wanna come soek more kak.. come soek it fckface.. I fck your white arse kak straight back where it belongs up your pseudo ‘intelligentsia’ liberated white fascist snout…
1 Oct 2012, 22:41 pm
@fitz1ella-465:
Hmm speaking of illegitimate privileges now that our democracy has begun to mature you are left chumming for long drop work.
1 Oct 2012, 22:52 pm
@fitz1ella-470: “I fck your white arse kak straight back where it belongs up your pseudo ‘intelligentsia’ liberated white fascist snout”
Not sure what to make of this. Apart from being anatomically challenging, it also sounds like you’re propositioning me.
Also, is it possible for all these body parts to have their own complex political leanings?
1 Oct 2012, 22:54 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-375: Bakkies.I think that the word for cleariing the back of the throat and spitting the
resulting pleghm is called “Hawking”(Courtesy of James Clavell- author Taipan,Shogun)
Finally got spelling right with help of word”Phleghmatic.Dont see the
connection however.Lekker slaap.
1 Oct 2012, 23:00 pm
@katman-472: Anatomically impossible.
1 Oct 2012, 23:05 pm
@ryecatcher-474: I believe Skoppie was a contortionist in his grandfather’s circus act that traveled around the mines of the East Rand in the early fifties, so I guess nothing is impossible for him. But I can’t see myself pulling that arse up the snout move without risking a career ending injury.
1 Oct 2012, 23:07 pm
@rangerman-467: Hello Rangerman.
This morning can best be described as the depression that I liken to’apres sexe tristesse” A phenomenon usually,but not always,experienced by females
after ******.
Like having a post coital cigarette while your partner lies rigid and
resentful besides you Not that this was the case. .Have a good night.
1 Oct 2012, 23:08 pm
smorga
1 Oct 2012, 23:13 pm
@katman-475: LO very L
2 Oct 2012, 03:45 am
@ryecatcher-433: There are very few of us.
2 Oct 2012, 07:31 am
@ryecatcher-473:
yes, that’s it thank you.
a most disgusting phenomena to experience close up and first hand.
2 Oct 2012, 07:31 am
@PielNeus-466: profound statement
2 Oct 2012, 07:32 am
@ryecatcher-476: Very information
overload
2 Oct 2012, 08:49 am
I agree with Jon.
SA need to get their kicking game sorted, because despite what the fans think about the new style of the Bokke, they are not equipped to match the AB’s in running rugby.
And there will be no chance of the AB’s only being left with 14 fit players like Aus.
SA are behind NZ in the head to head try scoring stakes by 38 since ever.
Only one of those try differentials was scored pre 1991!
2 Oct 2012, 10:00 am
@fitz1ella-468: You are so filled with hatred you fail to see that you are by far the biggest racist on this blog. OK, maybe Pielneus gives you a go, but at least he´s mildly entertaining when he isn´t trying too hard.
I do feel for both of you, though. It´s obvious that Bantu education has put you both back big time and for that I, as a whitey scumbag fcknut, would personally like to apologise.
I assume, since you´re obviously against non-indigenous people living in SA, that you´re also actively swearing at Africans living in Europe or the USA to stop leeching off the first world and get their non-indigenous backsides back to Uhuruland. You yourself know this would be a difficult task, because it isn´t that easy breaking out of a honky jail or escaping the slums and projects of Babylon. There´s also the risky business of the 5th class seat in the A380 wheel well to consider.
Maybe they can come and stay at your place. I´m sure they´ll be impressed by your indigenous credentials (just don´t mention the Bushmen) and you can all do a few laps around the fire before you go off into the suburbs to plunder, rape and murder.
2 Oct 2012, 11:09 am
@umfezi-484: Oh, he’s not a d.arkie. Make no mistake. He’s an old Jewish fella, whiter than the driven snow. Except for a few patches of unsightly skin discolourations, for which he’s using an ointment.
He’s an old Jewish ballie who made lekker hay while the sun shone on his white hide for a handful of decades, and now he’s trying to reinvent himself as the white Biko through the innovative media of a rugby blog.
2 Oct 2012, 11:35 am
@katman-485: OK, now I´m gob-smacked!
2 Oct 2012, 11:44 am
@umfezi-486: Don’t fall for his struggle rhetoric. He’s just flipping and flopping whichever way the wind blows.
2 Oct 2012, 12:22 pm
@PielNeus-450:
We are speaking English right? I would think it is obvious I am talking about that.
2 Oct 2012, 12:23 pm
@fitz1ella-452:
The constitution says that you may discriminate against whites based on their race. That is racist. Very simple.
2 Oct 2012, 12:25 pm
@Dawn-453:
I would love to, but my wife doesn’t want to. But I would just have the same argument over there. Like I said, BEE is not something non-whites are doing to whites. Whites allow this to happen to themselves by tacitly accepting the implicit racism. And I have had a enough of politely talking about it pretending we are all treated equally and that blacks are not rabidly racist themselves.
2 Oct 2012, 12:27 pm
@David-455:
That is my point. Marx doesn’t care about race. He is all about “we are all equal”. It is that mantra that has invected the West while the rest of the world still looks out only for themselves. That is the problem.
2 Oct 2012, 12:28 pm
@Dawn-456:
Nice, we learn something new every day. But personally I couldn’t care what use the coloured community have put it to. I will use it my way.
2 Oct 2012, 12:29 pm
@fitz1ella-459:
Nah, plenty of races have done wonderful things. I just want my race to exist into the future without having to pander and bribe our African brothers and I want to expose racist pricks like you for what you are.
2 Oct 2012, 12:32 pm
@ryecatcher-463:
This is what you need to understand. Group dynamics will always be at play. They will always leverage that identity for economical benefit. It is only once we acknowledge this and stop pretending that BEE is not downright racist that we will be able to “get along”.
What guys like Fitzy make perfectly clear is that he love BEE because it is revenge. He wants to punish and hurt white people in any way he can. It is not about redress or fair opportunity. He illustrates my point perfectly.
2 Oct 2012, 12:36 pm
@fitz1ella-465:
Reconciliation for animals like you is revenge, plain and simple. You want whites to suffer. Some whites are deluded enough by this annoying marxist-liberalism to think that the rest of the world all believe in the same “we are all just individuals”. But it is abundantly clear that the rest of the world fully embraced group politics to try and bring us down.
The funny part is that you think this is happening because you are somehow “good enough” to achieve it while it is actually just the West allowing you to do it. Eventually they will wake up and your free ride will be over.
2 Oct 2012, 12:37 pm
@STBUR-494:
I think fifz1ella may be whiter than you are St Bur.
Would be a close run thing.
2 Oct 2012, 12:39 pm
@cane-496:
What do you think of Cory’s fend?
2 Oct 2012, 12:43 pm
@katman-485:
That explains his fixation about the Nazis. Still hates all the Germanic peoples which is probably the group that most, or large percentage at least, white South Africans belong to.
Doesn’t matter really though, ultimately this entire self-denial mindset the West has got needs to stop and whites can only do that for themselves. Non-whites are irrelevant to that process.
2 Oct 2012, 12:44 pm
@cane-496:
Ja I see that. But I better understand his Nazi-fixation now.
2 Oct 2012, 13:06 pm
@STBUR-489:
Where in the constitution does it say that? BEE is a government policy with various laws to enforce it. But I don’t remember seeing anything in the constitution about it.
2 Oct 2012, 13:11 pm
@David-500:
The constitution explicitly allows whites to be discriminate against in the context of BEE. Go read it.
Also, think about it logically… BEE discriminates against whites based on race. That means the constitutional court should’ve knocked it down because it does not comply with the constitution (if the constitution was not racist). However, since the constitution explicitly allows BEE (it was literally written into it) the courts allowed the legislation to pass.
That is how legislation works. Laws have to pass muster with the judiciary and it only does so if it is constitutionally legal. Since BEE discriminates against whites and is racist therefore the constitution must be to have allowed it.
2 Oct 2012, 13:33 pm
@STBUR-501:
In other words, you don’t actually know.
2 Oct 2012, 13:36 pm
@umfezi-484Pielneu/s=OK:
2 Oct 2012, 13:41 pm
@STBUR-494: Thanks
2 Oct 2012, 13:42 pm
@David-502:
I just told you exactly.
The constitution explicitly allows BEE. I am not going to go find the paragraph for you. If you can’t even do that you obviously don’t want an answer and even if I give it to you you will ignore it.
Not only that I give you a logical backup even without looking at the constitution. Parliament passes legislation that needs to be challenged by the Constitutional Court if it does not comply. Since BEE discriminates based on race and the Constitutinoal Court did not strike it down it means that the constitution does explicitly allow it.
You have been given both a factually and logically backed answer.
2 Oct 2012, 13:43 pm
@STBUR-505:
In fact someone already posted up the constitution earlier in this thread. Just go on all and search constitution and you will eventually find it. Help yourself because no one else is going to do it for you.
2 Oct 2012, 14:04 pm
@STBUR-505:
I’m not going looking for something that not there, so please don’t try and imply that you’ve just forgotten which paragraph. Since most of your assertions are couched in quasi academic language I would assume you would be able to site your references.
I also assume that you’re familiar with US politics since you consider yourself a libertarian and have a similar rhetoric as Ron Paul.
The US constitution (amended) is now totally non racial, yet the US Supreme Court has regularly upheld the right of various states and institutions to impose quotas for individuals from different ethnic backgrounds.
The rationale behind these judgements was that reserving a percentage of places for these groups was not anti white per se, but pro minorities and didn’t infringe on the constitution.
Whether one agrees with it or not, and I can find a good argument to support BEE in principal, it only differs from the US in the actual percentages.
2 Oct 2012, 14:06 pm
St Burger and katmanknt are pursuing their Nazi superiority fascination to the Nth degree, these closet Nazi’s want to hide behind this bullshit ideology that they are only trying to protect their minority white status in a dark African continent, but that is just a fat smokescreen for their inherent anti black fixed nazi style raw racism. You think punks like these can bullshit their way through life, the only ones who had a free ride in Africa where these self inflated ‘superior’ human specimens who STILL think their ‘group’ deserves to be afforded insulation and protection from assimilation into the greater whole. They cannot even see that every word and thought that spews out of their inherently racist dogmatic ideology is blatantly racist in every possible connotation, yet BEE is now the enemy when the real enemy is lurking inside their inherently RACIST heart and mind.
Any man who thinks in terms of group segregation and classification is first and foremost RACIST by the definition of the term. Exactly as Hitler and Verwoerd tried to segregate and oppress portions of society to their own racist fixated ideas and ends, so do these outright racist swine who hide behind their pseudo intelligible ‘education’ as a front for the real hatred and inhumane malady eating up their race indoctrinated soul.
2 Oct 2012, 14:13 pm
@David-507:
Any racial discriminatory law or amendment is racist by itself.
The US having passed racist amendments is not a “good reason”. I have as much a problem with those laws as I do with BEE because they are the exact same sort of racist double standard. Pol Pot killed millions of people, does that make it a good idea? South Africa instituted Apartheid, does that mean the US should’ve done the same?
Ron Paul is only a semi-libertarian. He does a lot right but even he doesn’t have the balls to admit that group dynamics go hand-in-hand with individual identity. The reason for this is the marxist-liberal ideology that has infected the West. As a group we are suffering from pathological altruism, i.e. helping the “other” even to the detriment of your future survival. Its not healthy.
I have yet to see you raise a good argument “in principle”.
2 Oct 2012, 14:14 pm
@fitz1ella-508:
And you are a Jew with a racist agenda to exterminate any German descendents…
2 Oct 2012, 14:18 pm
ryecatcher crawling up the Nazi’s arse says it all actually.
Punks who pretend to shroud their inherently RACIST stance in life behind pseudo intelligent falsely educated garbled garbage and want to invent pseudo racially divisive ideological models of separate group protectionism pretending that this is all in aid of white minority rights political or economic expression are fooling themselves.
Their entire modus of thinking is race enshrined, every last fibre of their race infested ideology is born in EXACTLY the identical principles and ideology that bore fruit to the Nazi party in Germany and the racist white minority nationalist government in South Africa. And any moron that cannot see the outright hypocrisy in this punks garbled racist ideology is pathological blind.
2 Oct 2012, 14:20 pm
@fitz1ella-511:
You really only have one string to your bow don’t you, sad little man?
2 Oct 2012, 14:25 pm
@fitz1ella-511:
And while we are at it. What racist ideology do I have btw?
2 Oct 2012, 14:27 pm
I do not have any racist agenda against any ‘group’ which is exactly where your garbage ‘group’ protectionist garbled nazi ideology falls flat on its arse. You racists are all the same no matter where your heritage stems from a racist is a racist, no matter how he tries to hide behind racially divisive ideology and self infatuated ‘superior’ ethnic lineage. You outright scum racists are inhumane and it has nothing to do with which ‘group’ you represent nor even the color of your skin. your outright garbage filthy racist ideology is represented by the blackness manifest inside your race infested thinking and barberous race infested heart.
2 Oct 2012, 14:31 pm
@fitz1ella-514:
Ehhh… you didn’t answer my question. Take a deep breath, swallow the spittle, wipe the froth off your lips and calmly answer. Thanks!
But you certainly have a racist ideology. You are fixated on Germanics peoples and how they are all Nazis, should be exterminated or be driven from Africa. You say the same things every single post.
2 Oct 2012, 14:31 pm
@STBUR-506: Fuckme you are tiresome. If you think you can save the white race from ‘bleeding white liberals’ such as I on a bgradefuckingrugbyblog, I think you overestimate the potency of your ‘charisma’ somewhat.
Your audience don’t seem to be biting…..
Less talk of how people like me are a problem, and a threat to your children’s future, and more talk as to how tactical kicking will be the downfall of the Boks.
Foksulkemensekortsomsnordentelikefokkinpk.
2 Oct 2012, 14:33 pm
@fitz1ella-514:
Oh and not to mention that you support BEE which is as racist as you get. But don’t worry, you are in good company. 90% of non-whites in SA are all as equally racist on that score.
2 Oct 2012, 14:39 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-516:
Well, this particular thread is old now, I doubt anyone else is reading this. I just keep going because I want to see if I can give this fitz1ella guy a heart attack. *lol*
But I also don’t expect anyone to “bite” really. Most people only read and then they go think about it, maybe later they talk to someone and a seed has been planted. I don’t know. I don’t have a grand plan here. I just have some time and I’m enjoying myself.
The first step is anyone that people get used to seeing others raise these issues. It only bothers you because it makes you feel uncomfortable. Deep down you know what I say about BEE, group dynamics etc is true.
2 Oct 2012, 14:42 pm
these outright white swine who murdered the likes of Biko for no other reason than he was seeking to liberate his downtrodden oppressed people from under the yoke of these filthy heathen oppressors who want to now come and cry like the spoiled white pigs they are that their filthy inherent racist agendas are no more welcome in a land which they harbor absolutely no claim whatsoever to, and pretend that their pseudo ideological standpoint is purely for ‘protection’ from becoming assimilated into a non racial whole. So they by definition want to perpetuate the outright racist separatist ideology of their forebears, shows specifically and emphatically they are rooted in racially inherent fear and hatred which is and always was and always will be the absolute malady disease that segregated mankind from ever calling himself civilized, no matter how hypocritical he shrouds his pseudo education for rhetorical betterment of his volk.
2 Oct 2012, 14:51 pm
@STBUR-509:
I haven’t raised any arguments, just pointing out some of the flaws in your claims.
2 Oct 2012, 15:00 pm
@David-520:
The fact that the US has always raised racist legislation doesn’t make BEE any less racist.
“Whether one agrees with it or not, and I can find a good argument to support BEE in principal”
You stated the above. What is that principle? That the US has racist laws therefore SA should have racist laws? That is not a principle.
2 Oct 2012, 15:29 pm
@fitz1ella-508 Really? Be a darling and post that bit where I become a nazi. You’ve been throwing this slander around for a few weeks now and you have zilch to base it on. I know for sure that I’m far more progressive than, for example, you when it comes to cultural diversity. So I can only imagine it’s some form of deflection when you pluck this racism accusation out of thin air and try to paint me with it.
So do me a favour and find the post where the fascist in me peeked out. I’m really interested in what you have. Otherwise, shut the fck up.
2 Oct 2012, 15:32 pm
@fitz1ella-519: Yeah? And wile that was happening, you were living a blissfully ignorant white middle class life for decade upon decade. Don’t pretend to be all bleeding heart now, like so many of your generation do. It’s pretty transparent. You were a capable, mature adult when all the sht went down. and you did buggerall to change a thing. Your rants here are completely baseless.
2 Oct 2012, 15:38 pm
first this heathen nazi thought I was a goffel k’affir and he assumed he could categorize me then, then somebody told him I’m a jew so now he assumes I hate all germanic people the same way this heathen nazi hates all blacks.
Little does this outright heathen nazi realize that its not my racist ideological beliefs or affiliations under scrutiny here, its his.
Unlike how the filthy racist ideologically indoctrinated swine tried the wholesale extermination of certain ‘groups’ that they thought would threaten their own ‘groups’ puritanical ideologically depraved notions to retain their racial separatist development agendas, I have never had nor ever will have any desire to ‘exterminate’ anybody or anyone, and the seed of racist agenda and indoctrinated ideology rests within an individuals mind and not within any ‘group’ mind.
What I will tell these outright racist swine is that if they feel uncomfortable being part of or sharing an existence with others who they deem by their ideologically depraved doctrines that the majority are inferior to them, then they should fck the hell out of here because just as they do not feel part of any assimilation within a cosmopolitan society so should they go to where they feel they would be at ‘home’ amongst their insulated protected ‘groups’ kind.
2 Oct 2012, 16:00 pm
@fitz1ella-524:
Well you can only be one of the two. Either you are (1) white and suffering from collective pathological altruism or (2) you are not white. Until I know all I can do is take a guess.
I just find it funny that you hate all Germanic peoples so much since it is the equally Germanic US white population that has sheltered and supported your fellow Jews in Israel. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.
2 Oct 2012, 16:01 pm
you don’t fool me katmanknt, maybe you fool yourself, but I seen little pseud self infatuated boertjie like you for who you absolutely are.
Next time xhosakid or anyone calls you out for the volk protectionism pseudo you are, don’t deny it and try hide behind your angelic apologized anglicised education, rather just be who you are, Verwoerd’s kindertjie, because that’s far more honest than pretending to be who you’re not.
2 Oct 2012, 16:02 pm
@katman-523:
Apart from shooting oranges on the caprivi strip.
2 Oct 2012, 16:14 pm
keep guessing St Burger you have no clue who I am so your highfalutin assumptions about who I affiliate either my beliefs or my ideology to is nowhere near your estimated guesses.
The clear as daylight facts here are that you and your racially obsessive group identification ideology is steeped in exactly identical same filthy repressive hate filled ideologies that drove Hitler to Nazism and Verwoerd and your volk into apartheid, so you can run duck and hide all you like, but you are an outright racist akin to a nazi and that makes no difference whether you are from germanic or any other genetic descent. Your racist ideology is what defines you,., not your blood line or the color of your skin, in spite of the absolute fallacies you hold indoctrinatedly so fast to that this is who you believe you are.
2 Oct 2012, 16:21 pm
@fitz1ella-526: Post it, you phony little **********. Find any teeny weeny little bit of evidence of me being a racist, fascist, Verwoerdian supremacist and post it here. You’ve been crowing about it for weeks now, so point us to one of those incidents. Saying sht like “you don’t fool me” is not evidence. That’s just the manure swimming around between your ears talking. You think because I’m Afrikaans I’m a racist? I think that’s how it works in your brain.
When I called you up on your bullshit lies, I supplied post upon post upon post of proof that you’re a forked-tongue maggot. So kindly return the favour here, or forever shut the fck up. Does this sound like something you could live with?
2 Oct 2012, 16:21 pm
far more important things to attend to than continue with discussing garbage false classification infatuation with outright idiots.
Out
2 Oct 2012, 16:22 pm
@fitz1ella-508: Hi Skop.Somebody
posted yesterday that you were a white man availing yourself of all
the priveleges given by the colour of your skin.
Say it isn.t so
2 Oct 2012, 16:23 pm
@fitz1ella-528:
Your illogical German-hating diatribe paints you quite clearly for what you are, you little anti-white racist.
2 Oct 2012, 16:25 pm
@fitz1ella-530: So that’s a no then, you sniveling little weasel? Nothing to show for all your fabricated slander? Surely a man of integrity wouldn’t do such a thing? Surely you have a little more spine than that?
2 Oct 2012, 16:29 pm
@fitz1ella-511: A yes or no would
have satisfied me.
2 Oct 2012, 16:30 pm
@ryecatcher-531: Oh, it’s so all right. And not only did he enjoy the spoils of white south africa for decades, he even waged war against the heathens in northern namibia. But that sht doesn’t fit well into the new reinvented Skoppie’s CV. The new him would have you believe he was some kind of conscientious objector who bombed Wimpys and hung out in Sophiatown.
2 Oct 2012, 16:37 pm
you are who you are katmanknt stop trying to deny it pissarse little two faced runt, you try hide your inherent superiority ideology all you like knty I see you for who you are. My phone don’t have sophisticated google box fetching facilities but that don’t hide you from being who you trying not to be, when its blatantly clear as daylight from the words and ideas spilling out your mouth.
2 Oct 2012, 16:41 pm
@fitz1ella-536: Ha ha ha, so that’s another no? You’d have made a truly sht lawyer, Skoppie. You’d probably have ended up the same bum you are now, but with a law degree.
Your fabrications are no more credible than me starting to post here daily about your g.ay lifestyle. How you lead this double life – construction conman by day and Green Point steam room raver by night. Shall we try that for a few weeks?
2 Oct 2012, 16:43 pm
@fitz1ella-536: Lol, this garbage is mouthing off again. You truly deeply dooby do feel inferior to the White man dont you? Your self loathing is blinding. Loving it. I pop on here every time I need a little pick me up.
2 Oct 2012, 16:47 pm
@fitz1ella-536: Had enough.Good day
to all out there.
2 Oct 2012, 16:51 pm
@bok2007-538: He’s whiter than me and you. Just thought you needed a little context. He’s old, white and Jewish, and the closest he’s come to the armed struggle was when he got diverted off the N2 the other day due to service delivery protests.
2 Oct 2012, 17:01 pm
what are all these little heathen nazi arsed whiteys following this nobody jewboy onto an obsolete thread for when their conscience starts pricking them and they gotta find solace in the excuse that they are ‘only’ seeking their patronized volks shelter from the ideological storm
keep following and keep seeking redemption from your basic racist infirm confirmatory .. next they gonna want to exterminate the jewboy for telling it how it is.. or worse crucify him first and then venerate and idolize him and make a pagan christian barbaric blue eyed god out of him afterwards.
2 Oct 2012, 17:02 pm
@katman-540: Oh ok. Sad that. Either way the entity reeks of self-loathing.
2 Oct 2012, 18:06 pm
@fitz1ella-536:
Is that a copy paste, fella?
2 Oct 2012, 18:22 pm
And now the old wrinkled ballsack thinks he’s JesusChrist.
You can only laugh.
2 Oct 2012, 19:15 pm
who’s jesuschrist to you gunthergwat, the brownskinned jewboy you crucified who you now bow down and pray to each day, while you persecute the black man for being less than human in your whiter shade of pale indoctrinated hypocritical race obsessive european ideological eyes, that you more worthy to call yourself a civilized heathen christian than he because of your insidious white skinned infatuation of supremacy f’ng up your race indoctrinated brain.? The jokes on you you imbecilic heathen barbarian idiot moron gone wrong.
2 Oct 2012, 19:35 pm
Shut up.
You don’t know what you are talking about.
I guarantee you one thing.
He’s certainly not done unemployed Bakkies builder from Vishoek.
2 Oct 2012, 20:17 pm
I know exactly what I’m talking about.. its dumb deluded screwball self invented onward christian soldier morons such as you and your self opinionated white supremacy delusions of outright imbecilic grandeur that don’t know the beginning of who the fck is who and what the fck is what. You wouldn’t know the beginning of who’s who in this mesmerized zoo and whats what you dumb defrauding moron and your dumb white arse ‘civilized’ ilk.
2 Oct 2012, 20:37 pm
Little does this outright heathen nazi realize that its not my racist ideological beliefs or affiliations under scrutiny here, its his.
yet you have them you stupid peos.
@katman-533: wanner het jy dan die white supremist geword?
2 Oct 2012, 20:47 pm
@fitz1ella-545:
What about Israel, isn’t the majority ruled by the minority, seperated by walls, forced to live in the Occupied Territories, checkpoints and soldiers demanding papers?
Doesn’t flying overhead with Apache gunships and shooting Hellfire missiles into civillian population qualify as persecution?
How does it differ from the Nats?
Why don’t you demand one man one vote for Israel as well?
2 Oct 2012, 20:50 pm
@victoriabok-549: man, he’s just upset having to cut holes in his sheets every time he gets jags…
and then still having to pluk himself.
2 Oct 2012, 20:58 pm
@trupisero-550:
If you live in the West you soon realise that it’s more a case of “Do as we say, not do as we do”
They’ve ALL mistreated the Indians (both Asian and North American), Chinese, Aborigines, Maoris and every aboriginal they came across, but we were made to take the brunt of both their guilt and blame
2 Oct 2012, 21:00 pm
548 – Nie heeltemal seker nie. Dink dit was ‘n “in absentia” toekenning. Ou Skoppie raak meer kens by die dag. As hy niks anders het om te se nie dan reken hy sommer almal is ‘n nazi. Jy moet oppas. As hy terugkom gaan jy as Gestapo verklaar word.
2 Oct 2012, 21:25 pm
@victoriabok-549: I never said I condone Israels minority’s political monopolization over any ‘majorities’ .. where did I say that.?
I have no answers for any political solutions if I did I might have tried being a politician, what I can say with conviction is that racist policies are abhorrent and the type of race infested ideology that drives morons like this STBUR to seek some kind of self identifying utopia for his out of place minority people to retain their separateness for his obsession with a pride in a tribal cultural heritage, because that is all it is, his white tribe being overrun by the black tribe that the white tribe had illegitimate conrtol and manipulated power over for too long, then he’s on a hiding to nothing, only he don’t want to recognize this yet.
2 Oct 2012, 21:36 pm
@fitz1ella-553:
All I’m saying is that the solution at the time, albeit wrong, might seem to be the only option
The Nats thought so wrongly and the Israeli’s still do
The only difference is the hypocritical West stays remarkably quiet about Israel
2 Oct 2012, 21:52 pm
@victoriabok-554:
what are the Israeli’s doing that the Nats did..? Jews wanted or needed a state to call their own after Nazi genocide so that they wouldn’t be subject to genocidal oppression or extermination like they were under Hitler in Germany again . so they appealed to UN for a place to call home and won a vote to occupy a portion of British occupied Palestine as a homeland for their tribe or religiously determined nationality.
Then the combined Arab world saw this as a thorn in their joint Arab side and wanted to extinguish any potential of this Israeli state from existence and give Palestine back to the Palestinians. Although the Palestine population was nowhere nearly as prolific in 1948 when Israel was declared a Jewish state as it is today.
The solution is perhaps insurmountable. I do not have any answer for it other than for the Israelis to walk away and say sorry UN made a mistake you can have your land back, and all the Jews get re assimilated back into the diaspora nations they came from.
Different scenario to the Nats here, maybe similar in some small respects, but not from a racial identification position. More so from a political or religious identity. Israeli’s by and large are not racist but politically protectionist from a position of survival for their young volatile national identity being eradicated almost as quickly as it got formed.
So you suggesting the West should move to give Israel land back to the Arabs?
2 Oct 2012, 21:56 pm
@fitz1ella-555:
> Although the Palestine population was nowhere nearly as prolific in 1948 when Israel was declared a Jewish state as it is today.
Both can lay claim to the country so the ovious solution is live together in peace
One man one vote
Simple
2 Oct 2012, 22:00 pm
@fitz1ella-555:
> but politically protectionist from a position of survival for their young volatile national identity being eradicated almost as quickly as it got formed.
That’s exactly the justifications the Nats’ used instead of “Arab Gevaar” it was called “Swart Gevaar”
2 Oct 2012, 22:03 pm
@fitz1ella-555:
> The solution is perhaps insurmountable
Yes, I agree with you
The countries around them used to be ruled by dictators who left them alone
They’ve been or are being replaced by guys spoiling for a fight
2 Oct 2012, 22:05 pm
@victoriabok-557:
So you suggesting the Israeli’s hand over Israel to Arab control like the Nats did here to the ANC. There it may become either genocide or the Jews would have to leave, I doubt the Arabs would be as forgiving to the Jew as the Africans are here to the Afrikaner
2 Oct 2012, 22:10 pm
@fitz1ella-559:
Universal suffrage seems to be the end all cure all propgated by the West (except if you happen to sell them oil that is)
They demanded it of SA
What makes the Israelis so special, why can’t the Palestinians vote for their own people in their own country?
2 Oct 2012, 22:16 pm
@fitz1ella-559:
> o you suggesting the Israeli’s hand over Israel to Arab control like the Nats did here to the ANC.
Yes, there were a lot of Jewish people like Suzman and Zille in the forefront pushing for democracy, yet they remain quiet about democracy for the Palistinians
Again as case of “Do as we say not do as we do”?
> There it may become either genocide or the Jews would have to leave, I doubt the Arabs would be as forgiving to the Jew as the Africans are here to the Afrikaner
2 Oct 2012, 22:17 pm
@victoriabok-560: The Palestinian should be able to vote for their own people in their own country.. Who knows if I were an Israeli living in Israel I might even have become a radical anti Israeli state activist.. There are a quite a few Jews living in Israel who are for more inclined toward sharing the country than the ultra right who are adamant they do not and cannot see a future in that. I see there was one who visited here just the other day. An Israeli with a conscientious objection to Israels monopolization over the Palestinians and the Zionist organizations disowned him while the Palestinian organizations lapped it up.
2 Oct 2012, 22:26 pm
@fitz1ella-559:
> > There it may become either genocide or the Jews would have to leave, I doubt the Arabs would be as forgiving to the Jew as the Africans are here to the Afrikaner
They can have a Codesa and a good constitution to protect them
> I doubt the Arabs would be as forgiving to the Jew as the Africans are here to the Afrikaner
Why not?
Shouldn’t you try first without rejecting it outright?
2 Oct 2012, 22:27 pm
@victoriabok-561: The situation is different, it is not a racially based ideology but a nationalist religious one. There are some racist right wing Jews in Israel but they form a very small minority, the bulk of the population are not in the least racist by definition but highly susceptible to being totally eradicated off their UN sanctioned sovereign territory if the territory was handed back to Palestinian political control.
Like I said I am not a politician and do not have answers for that highly volatile situation in the mid east..Neither the Roosevelt or Kennedy or Johnson or Nixon or Carter or Reagan or Bush or Clinton or Bush Jnr. or Obama have managed to solve the issue, I think its far more complex and strategical from a Western perspective than the SA situation which was run by a pariah minority government dictating to a vastly larger oppressed majority population..
I don’t think you can accurately equate the two situations though they do bare some similarities in certain aspects.
2 Oct 2012, 22:37 pm
@fitz1ella-564:
> I think its far more complex and strategical from a Western perspective than the SA situation
Nope, that’s why the West didn’t do anything throughout the Cold War
> which was run by a pariah minority government dictating to a vastly larger oppressed majority population
Same old same old
No difference, same problem same solution
Occam’s Razor
2 Oct 2012, 22:41 pm
israelis need a state and idenitity cos for whatever unbeknown reason they been persecuted by virtually every country or culture they are part of, its a bizarre thing – i cant understand it, but israelis kicked arabs to hell and gone in 6-day war.
its an interesting case tho – israelis were given land by churchill in balfour declaration in recognition of all the prejudice and pogroms they suffered.
both the calvinists and orthodox jewish theology tho seem to somehow see themselves as chosen ppl and got march off into exodus into promised land – its all fkd up.
2 Oct 2012, 22:42 pm
@fitz1ella-564:
Skop my Great Great Grandfather was a Jew who married into Maori, he was an Asher,as was my Mothers maiden name, I know little of my Jewish heritage and find your posts on Jewish history enlightening
2 Oct 2012, 22:46 pm
israelis fighting for very right of survival, they surrounded by ppl who have no interest in intergrating with them or letting them live in peace, they want to literally drive them into the ocean – so thats when you gotta band together and moer them stukked otherwise you get wiped out.
SA whites never had such a problem, black folk just want to intergrate, not exterminate, as the keo headline goes, whereas arabs want to exterminate not intergrate with israelis, completely different, their identity is essential for their very survival.
2 Oct 2012, 22:50 pm
@cab-566:
> its an interesting case tho – israelis were given land by churchill in balfour declaration in recognition of all the prejudice and pogroms they suffered.
Yes, but the same Brits had Jewish refugees from Europe and the camps die on ships in the harbour after the war, they didn’t allow them to land in Palestine
My friend is an Israeli, he told me how the Brits messed them around (like they did with everyone else)
2 Oct 2012, 22:50 pm
@Te Rangatira-567: Very interesting.. I think the Jew will very easily marry across racially identifiable lines I know I can and have and would..so the Jew is I think not at all racially protectionist but perhaps more religiously or culturally protective.
Mostly they do not like to marry outr of their faith but very many have throughout history and do so regularly. Many current mixed race Moslems in this country here in SA by name Solomons or Jacobs or Isaacs etc and etc were originally from Jewish parentage but converted to Moslem to fit in with the society dynamic and status quo.
cab is correct .. religion and its base for delineation of culture and heritage is largely fckd up.. but then so is nearly everything manipulated and orchestrated by man.
2 Oct 2012, 22:53 pm
the israelis had various governments which have tried to bend over backward to seek a two-state solution , assafat was never interested , it was offered to him on the table way back i think at camp david.
problem is they got holy places in common and fight like mad batshits over the holy of holies.
2 Oct 2012, 22:54 pm
solomons fkn hell, i got some jewish heritage afterall, but lil earnie still intact and i love the bacon.
2 Oct 2012, 23:00 pm
@cab-568:
> whereas arabs want to exterminate not intergrate with israelis, completely different, their identity is essential for their very survival.
We’re talking about the Palistinians, and it’s their country too
Why can’t they have a say in their own country?
2 Oct 2012, 23:00 pm
@cab-568: that is largely the fundamental difference between the SA and Israeli problem.. The African is not intent to destroy the white man as STBUR is so paranoid about otherwise they would have been gone from here by now.. The African is far more amiable to integration and peaceful coexistence than the Arab is or would be if they got a foothold in Israel.
2 Oct 2012, 23:03 pm
@cab-571:
> the israelis had various governments which have tried to bend over backward to seek a two-state solution , assafat was never interested
Exactly, remember the Tricameral government?
The ANC wanted no part of it either
> problem is they got holy places in common
More the reason to make it one country with one man one vote
2 Oct 2012, 23:04 pm
@fitz1ella-574:
> The African is far more amiable to integration and peaceful coexistence than the Arab
Isn’t that a bit racist, so an Arab is more violent ie backwards?
Aren’t we all equal?
2 Oct 2012, 23:05 pm
@victoriabok-573:
ja thats a good point, but its been offered – some of those israeli buggers are true bleeding heart liberals, i remember speaking to an oke and he hated his govt with a passion, there;s a book i read way back called the case for israel of iets, very good. there can be some hard ******** too, but they bred from that state of constant threat, they fighting for their lives, i doubt there is any country or identity on earth thats surrounded by such hate on all sides.
2 Oct 2012, 23:08 pm
@cab-577:
> i doubt there is any country or identity on earth thats surrounded by such hate on all sides.
We’re not talking about their neighbours, we’re talking about the citizens of Israel, the Sabras and the Palistinians
The solution for their country would be an all inclusive government
2 Oct 2012, 23:10 pm
@victoriabok-575:
but the point of the two-state system is that the israelis want to give palestinians their own land, they dont want the palestinians suicide bombing the hell out of their own families, the israelis simply want to live in peace, whereas the palestinians and every others surrounding arab state in the area want to wipe the israelis out. jew got a right to be distrustful, theyve been persecuted like no other group in history, i dunno so much about chosen, they seem to have been picked on a shitload for no sane reason.
2 Oct 2012, 23:16 pm
there is a hole history behind the jewish homeland or nation state, it was the correct thing to do, the 19th century saw countless pogroms, then the holocaust – problem is they were returned to the land they have a strong historical claim same as their semitic boeties, but they all fighting over religious ****.
sa white boertjies aint seen fkall persecution extermination talk from blacks, some of hugenuts were persecuted by their boertjie and french boeties, but not from africans, no need for homeland, boertjie not been persecuted and besides boertjie got no historical land claim whatsoever other than Jan van der Riebeek falling out the dromedaaris.
2 Oct 2012, 23:18 pm
@cab-579:
> but the point of the two-state system is that the israelis want to give palestinians their own land
Still Apartheid by any other name
And not very fair
> whereas the palestinians and every others surrounding arab state in the area want to wipe the israelis out
They’re going down s-hit creek without a paddle
All their neighbours are being or in the process of being run by Militants
Iran will get nukes
If the Israelis bomb their facilities it would only delay them for a couple of years, and it would turn the few moderates in the region against them as well
The American influence in the Middle East is deminishing and they won’t fight a war there again not even to defend Israel.
2 Oct 2012, 23:22 pm
difference between a nation state and apartheid.
you are welcome into israel, regardless if you arab or not, provided you dont want to blow their asses up – seems fair.
apartheid say you not welcome if you not white, even if you dont want to blow our assses up – seems unfair.
2 Oct 2012, 23:22 pm
@cab-580:
> problem is they were returned to the land they have a strong historical claim same as their semitic boeties, but they all fighting over religious ****.
If they’ve left it and someone else lived there for a couple of hundred years, how can you come back and claim it all as your own and kick the guys off it?
Why did you leave it unattended in the first place?
2 Oct 2012, 23:24 pm
@victoriabok-576: if I were having this discussion or argument with a religious or right wing Jew I would be taking your stance of the argument that every people is entitled to their own sovereign identity and existence and citizenship.. So yes the Palestinian has as much right to his own country as the Israeli has .. and MANY Israeli’s feel this way too..
but what cab is saying also bears some accuracy.. that if the Jew would relinquish political or territorial control over Israel he would possibly be wiped out and driven off the land into the sea. He would no longer have his own country he can call his own.. Perhaps this is his inherited lot on this world that the Jew is bound to always have to be at the brink of survival and cling to an identity by sheer survival instinct. Modern Israel is only 64 years old, perhaps if Israeli and Palestinian politicians could see eye to eye they could share the country. I’m not sure or convinced that would be possible with the ideological and religious division and fanaticism that exists there.. But perhaps it is possible after all.
2 Oct 2012, 23:29 pm
no doubt about it, they cant even relinquish golan heights, those arabs would be attacking at the drop of a hat. half the area complete barren uninhabitable dessert, they made a minor miracle appear from nothing, otherwise still be goatherders running rampant – ok maybe i better calm down.
2 Oct 2012, 23:31 pm
@cab-582:
> difference between a nation state and apartheid.
Minority ruling the majority who has a rightful claim to the land?
Same old same old
> you are welcome into israel, regardless if you arab or not, provided you dont want to blow their asses up – seems fair.
You can only become an Israeli if you’re jewish, Palestinians married to Israelis can’t become citizens
Doesn’t that sound familiar?
2 Oct 2012, 23:35 pm
@victoriabok-586:
who has the right claim? not so sure about that. minoruty not ruling anyone, you can go to school in israel buy a house there marry who you want, regardless of colour – you simply not govern them if you got a history of wanting to plant bombs in their homeland.
ja id actually smaak to go to israel – except those schlameels speaka da hebrew, cant understand a gdam word.
2 Oct 2012, 23:39 pm
@fitz1ella-584:
> Modern Israel is only 64 years old, perhaps if Israeli and Palestinian politicians could see eye to eye they could share the country. I’m not sure or convinced that would be possible with the ideological and religious division and fanaticism that exists there.. But perhaps it is possible after all.
Never say never, look at Northern Ireland, it also looked unsolveable
2 Oct 2012, 23:50 pm
@victoriabok-583: they been there and left there many times before .. they were there from Abraham and the patriarchs around 1700 BC with some sporadic colonization by Egyptians till invaded by Nebuchadnezzar in 587 BC and first Jewish temple in Jerusalem destroyed and horded off into slavery in Babylon
Then returned under Cyrus the great who conquered Babylon and freed the Jews back to Judah.
Colonized by Persia, then Greeks, then Romans and then a few centuries later the birth of Christianity under Roman empire and Judaism in Palestine became divested of any nationalist regimented identity.
Few hundred years later and birth of Muhammadan empire .. so Jews as such were always either colonized or controlled by more powerful rulers .. their national heritage was not powerful enough to sustain sovereign identity in a land always under siege from surrounding colonizing powers. Hence once the new controlling powers of Christian and Muslim hierarchies fought tooth and nail over control of these ‘holy’ territories the Jews simply made way and sought to make other lives for themselves in diaspora countries until the custodians in these diaspora environments persecuted them into seeking shelter and existence elsewhere. From Russia to Germany to France and western Europe and to the near east and far east, even to countries like Persia / Iran and Turkey and Yemen and India and Morocco did the Jew make his home under other religious rulers and countries.
Until the recent persecution in Germany when the UN and Balfour declaration determined they could get their own country back where they once belonged before Persian, Greek and Roman colonization and destruction overruled their existence there before.
2 Oct 2012, 23:54 pm
@victoriabok-586: you sure that a Palestinian married to an Israeli cannot become a citizen of Israel.. you sure about that?
3 Oct 2012, 00:02 am
@fitz1ella-590:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16526469
Israel’s Supreme Court has upheld a law banning Palestinians who marry Israelis from gaining Israeli citizenship.
3 Oct 2012, 00:07 am
@fitz1ella-589:
Maybe the Madagascar plan would have been better, albeit proposed by devil’s spawn, no agressive neighbours to give you c-rap
Imagine what they would have accomplished with a tropical island, if they managed to make the desert bloom?
3 Oct 2012, 00:34 am
@STBUR-525: vokken naive – skop admire germans (like Steiner..) STBUR you sooo much get wrong.. Maar you see you are defined racist ya? eg “races not equal” so my punt is, you have to be nAAAAAAaive to be racist. Very clever you, not very inteligent.
Yes BEE is JUSTIFIABLE DISCRIMINATION. Get used to it. human decency by Africa to Uropeans in SA staggering, unheard. please open eyes.
no of course you say farm murders, crime etc… of course, maar when you demonize, you get demons
3 Oct 2012, 03:10 am
@PielNeus-593: jafukkenright….one of the few places on earth where the majority needs protection from the minority. Funny how you can never be “african” unless you’re black as the ace of spades, regardless of whether your ancestors have been here for sveral hundred years after arrival from Europe or Asia.
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