Heyneke keeps faith in Boks
3 Oct 2012
Heyneke Meyer has made no changes to the Springboks’ starting line-up for the Rugby Championship Test against the All Blacks.
The Boks had several injury concerns following last Saturday’s clash against the Wallabies, but Meyer has confirmed that Zane Kirchner (hip), Johan Goosen (heel), Willem Alberts (hip), and Jannie du Plessis (stiffness) all trained with the team on Wednesday, and are all expected to start.
News that Coenie Oosthuizen has been cleared of a serious neck injury has prompted Meyer to include the Cheetahs prop on the Bok bench. Oosthuizen replaces Pat Cilliers, who featured against Australia last week.
‘Coenie is a superb athlete, a player whom I believe has the potential to be one of the all-time greats,’ said Meyer. ‘I will never gamble on a player’s health. We know that there is no risk to playing Coenie this weekend.
‘He has been out of action [due to a neck injury] for some time, but he understands our systems and what’s required of him having been with us since the beginning of the year.
‘In these types of games you need an impact player who can produce something special when he comes off the bench, and Coenie fits the bill.’
Springboks – 15 Zane Kirchner, 14 Bryan Habana, 13 Jaco Taute, 12 Jean de Villiers (c), 11 Francois Hougaard, 10 Johan Goosen, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 Duane Vermuelen, 7 Willem Alberts, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Andries Bekker, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Adriaan Strauss, 1 Beast Mtawarira.
Subs: 16 Tiaan Liebenberg, 17 Coenie Oosthuizen, 18 Flip van der Merwe, 19 Marcel Coetzee, 20 Elton Jantjies, 21 Juan de Jongh, 22 Pat Lambie.
By Jon Cardinelli, in Johannesburg
313 Comments
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3 Oct 2012, 18:44 pm
Must say, every player in this 22 has earned it, including Flip and Zane, they’ve changed my mind. What boggles me, is what Lambie does to deserve consistently being selected as part of the match 22. So many okes have come and gone, been dropped, re-selected, but Lambie remains on what merit. I’m a Lambie fan, but i’m not even sure anymore if he can play the game, he’s about as match fit as i am.
3 Oct 2012, 18:48 pm
Finally
Tacitus
The indisputed king of Gravitas
3 Oct 2012, 18:48 pm
@ryecatcher-119:
I must agree with you. Luckily it provided a chance for the Boks a further chance to gell without really challenging them. Obviously Saturday will provide the real test. As for the “flat lying” 10, I think it’s more of standing deep but taking the ball at speed on the advantage line instead of taking it deep and then trying to accelerate to the advantage line.
3 Oct 2012, 18:50 pm
Sorry
Undisputed
3 Oct 2012, 19:02 pm
@Dawn-152:
What a pair you’d make, with you the queen of Grouse.
3 Oct 2012, 19:25 pm
@BokkeYouBeauties-147:
It’s also about WP v Bulls this Friday night. Tac is just clearing his throat.
3 Oct 2012, 19:26 pm
So somebody reckons Tacitus is one and the same as St. Burnadette
He better deny it fast unless he wanna be lambasted with the same level of anti blitzkrieg blast
As for Herr Hondo well he’s basically just past the point of no return he’s so lost up the river Rhine he don’t know whether he’s in Hamburg or Lichtenstein. Claiming Jantjies and De Jongh are no heavier than 73 kg which is down to bantam weight division.. One of them should tackle Herr Hondo on his bloated benevolent arse.. then he’ll know what true weight they are.. which is at least 20 kg heavier than he is.
Paint it any which way you wanna do but at 61 minutes last Saturday Boks were up 26 – 3 against Oz with Habana rounding off the little sequence he started with Strauss to dot down under the posts.. and no way in hell were they going to lose that test.. Meyer told both Jantjies and De Jongh to warm up at around 62 – 64 minutes.. and then Boks conceded a try.. Had he been less of a coward chicken both of Jantjies and De Jongh should have been on when Habana scored at 61 minutes. And maybe.. just maybe Boks would have gone from strength to strength instead of conceding a soft try..
Instead he waited for the full 10 minutes that Slipper was off the field under yellow and a further 12 minutes till he reluctantly relented to give the 2 bruinous a chance…with 4 minutes left on the clock .. and the net result was that within that condensed 4 minutes De Jongh almost capitalized on a JdV break which sent Pienaar away who ran out of gas short and offloaded to De Jongh 5 mts out but his lunge for the line was literally cms short. and then Jantjies read the open game situation well couple minutes later to send Louw away who set up Habana for the coup de gras hat-trick
That in itself paint a rather dismal picture of a coach who is purely ruled by certain preconditioned prejudices which are pretty much along identical lines to those of Herr Hondo.. which don’t paint a very pretty picture overall for rugby in this country if this ideological hogwash is going to continue to be represented by camouflaging the picture to look like a window dressing exercise in compromise..
Basically it SUCKS and got no part of any credibility in a game that is supposed to represent the entire country dynamic and not a measly small percentage whittled down portion of it.
3 Oct 2012, 19:27 pm
@nama1-120: Apologies for the delay.
Do not put words in my mouth – I am talking about the quota system in general not just who happens to be in the Springbok team right now.
But seeing as you asked: for example both Lambie & Taute would be better bets than the current fullback in my opinion.
And once again I tell you to go ask the politicians why somebody should be denied access to a team because he is the “wrong colour”.
P.S. I regard Kirchner (sp?) as both – quota first closely followed by provincialism.
3 Oct 2012, 19:28 pm
Heyneke wasn’t about to change a winning team. Good on him for that.
Not so sure about Coenie – for his own health, he needs more game before the pressure cooker of test rugby.
3 Oct 2012, 19:30 pm
@David-153: Thanks for the post box.
Will consider what you said.
3 Oct 2012, 19:34 pm
@nama1-121: Who’s accountable for the team’s performance? The ball boys?
@wpstormerbok-125: Please read my replies to nama-1 – my argument is with the quota system in general not only the Springbok team.
@Transformation-126: Really? And back in what days? Apartheid days or Snor’s days or who’s?
3 Oct 2012, 19:35 pm
@WP-Forever-155: Famous nogal
3 Oct 2012, 19:37 pm
@David-153: 100%
3 Oct 2012, 19:39 pm
Hougaard is a better option at scrumhalf than Pienaar due to quick ball.
Charl Mcleod is also underrated. Great player imho.
Bondesio has showed promise too. Perhaps one for the future.
Piet Van Zyl also promising.
BUT…
Jano Vermaak has no place in a green jersey. Pienaar doesnt either.
Fourie Du Preez could be a shout, but I suspect his best days are behind him.
3 Oct 2012, 19:39 pm
@Bouts-86:
Whether Goosen lost his footing or not, the end result is the same, tackle was missed and Nonu gained +- 5 meters. Read Izzy Dagg’s comments about Goosen. He says that a 10 at international level must make his tackles and they want to create scenarios where JG is forced to make one on one tackles. That means they have spotted something about his defense. They may be wrong though.
3 Oct 2012, 19:42 pm
I am still not enamored with Pienaar at 9 and Hougaard at 11., I reckon its going to blow up in HM’s face.. Kirchner, Pienaar had reasonable games against a washed out stretched and battered Aussie outfit on the highveld in a stadium they have never beaten Boks at ever.. and with Boks having to prove they were definitely turning the corner from the stale one dimensional dross they been playing ever since Streauli stuck his ostrich head in the sand with Louis Koen at 10 and White and PdV followed suit with the same one dimensional play without the ball garbage ever since.
This one this week is a different kettle of fish.. and if Pienaar and Kirchner revert to type when under pressure because they will not be given the latitude they were against Aussie and start hoofing that goddamn bloated bag of leather up in the highveld sky again.. then we are going to bite the dust one more time just like John Smit found out when he was so goddamn desperate to become the immortalized arsehole of SA rugby that he couldn’t do the correct thing and fck off out of the way.. So Nonu danced a merry little victory jig over his sprawled flat as a belly flop pancake frame at Soccer City 2 years ago in his centurion game .. what a BRING DOWN !!!
If Heyneke Meyer wants to TAKE the GAME to the All Blacks then he should play Hougaard at 9, Taute at 14, and De Jongh at 12.. with Pienaar and Jantjies backing up Hougaard and Gooosen on the bench
But no he gonna go in like he did last week with Pienaar playing the general FdP slow the game down to a stagnant crawl role.. and watch.. I ain’t too enamored with the way this little shindig look like it very well may turn out.
3 Oct 2012, 19:43 pm
@The Bok Identity-165: Nonu & Read
will run at Goosen all day.Come ion Duanne.Justify trhe hype
3 Oct 2012, 19:47 pm
@the authority-164: If HM wants to stop AB’s from getting 18 wins on a trot Hougaard should be at 9 this weekend.. not Pienaar.
And I’m not sold on Kirchner either last week was nothing to gauge anyone by.
I’m also not sold with Lambie at 15 either so Taute would likely have to go to 15 but then he needs Mapoe on the bench with De Jongh starting and one of Lambie or Jantjies with Pienaar and Mapoe on bench.
I’m not singing no glory hallelujahs with this setup running out on Saturday.. I reckon last week was a premature hurrah.
3 Oct 2012, 19:52 pm
@fitz1ella-157:
Skop, HM also introduced Lambie with 5 min to go in the Aussie test after he’d been counting blades of grass for weeks. Last Sat he got 25 minutes.
Same with Goosen – he also got about 5 mins against the Aussies and then 15 against the AB’s. Then voila! – a start.
We all know HM is conservative in his selections – but Elton and JDJ will steadily get more game time.
3 Oct 2012, 19:59 pm
Just watched F!re !n Babylon on Supersport 2.
Great documentry.
3 Oct 2012, 20:00 pm
If the Bokkies play like they did on Saturday we stand an excellent chance of beating the Hobbits.
3 Oct 2012, 20:04 pm
@I am a stormer-169: Naah that was just plain pure goddamn cowardice. I watched his antics carefully .. he told them to warm up at 62 -63 minutes.. after Habana had put us in an unassailable lead at 26-3 with 18 minutes to play.. Then he waved them down because we were back in our 22 and not on the front foot.. and his excuse was we gotta be playing on the other side of the field before he brings them on. Then Aussie scored a gift try through some stupid hoofing it up.. I think the culprit was perhaps Pienaar..or maybe Lambie not finding touch. and Aussie building a series of phases rounding off with the Hougaard and Lambie fluff up in the corner for Harris to go over untouched.
Then he waits some more .. another 5 or 6 minutes when at long last with 4 minutes to play Aussie were not going to possibly draw back a lead of 26-8 so he reluctantly allows them their moment of sunshine .. WAY too late..
Within that 4 minute cameo both De Jongh and Jantjies make more than sufficient ground and show enterprising commitment to the game plus have a hand in the last Habana try.
So conservative is one thing.. cowardice and lack of faith (or perhaps worse – lack of belief in POC ability) is entirely something else.
3 Oct 2012, 20:04 pm
@Treehugger-171: Yeah, but you weren’t playing the Hobbits were you, mate?
3 Oct 2012, 20:09 pm
I honestly don’t think there will be any surprises on Saturday. The Springboks needed perspective and they got that in Australasia, neither the Aussies or All Blacks outclassed us, infact in a number ways, one could say that the Boks were the superior outfit. The weekend past’s drubbing of Australia for me really doesn’t offer any new insight to the boks progress as a team, we beat a **** side who played ****. This weekend’s game will only serve to reaffirm one thing for me. Not that the boks are up there and as good as any, but that the All Blacks are not as invincible as everyone’s made them out to be. They will come out with an inspired effort in the first 15, but ultimately they will be bossed physically. Only one match up that really concerns me, is Aaron Smith vs Pienaar. We will have our hands full containing that lil bugger.
3 Oct 2012, 20:12 pm
@fitz1ella-172: come on skop, in australia heyneke introduced goosen with only 10 min left, most lambasted his conservatism ditto with lambie. what he did with jantjies & jdj is no different and should not be extrapolated to some racial what not.
the aussies were moer toe and playing with 14 men by the time ej & jdj came onto the field…
their kans will come…
it’s like gear and savea in nz, the coaches rotate them.
3 Oct 2012, 20:14 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-158:
“I’ll leave it up to you to decide whether there are better players than most of the ones you mentioned who should be in the team.” (p. 113)
That’s what you said after I mentioned the names of the 5 POC in the match 22 for this weekend. (p. 105)
You/we were not at any stage talking about quotas in general.
On what grounds is Lambie and Taute a better FB than Kirchner? The same grounds that say that Taute is a better center than JdJ?
If you had just come out and say that you regard every POC as a quota, I might have respected your stance a bit but you’ve been ducking and diving all day long to avoid saying it. Honesty boet…you should try it.
Politicians asked for sport, including rugby, to transform. Rugby administrators came up with the idea of quotas to mask the lack of transformation in their sport.
In any case, that’s it from regarding this topic…for now.
PS: Quotas was started in 1980 already when Danie Gerber (B-section) and Errol Tobias (Federation) were selected for the Bok team. It was not started by the current politicians.
3 Oct 2012, 20:17 pm
@BokkeYouBeauties-174:
I completely agree. The Kiwi’s are overhyped. one drubbing of the Beef Bandits and they are heralded as the ‘best ever’. Richie will be wishing he was playing against “slingblade” Greyling. This time he will be hung out to dry like an ostrich.
3 Oct 2012, 20:18 pm
I am also not sold on Pienaar at 9 yet. He had a good game on Saturday. His service was quick. I would like to see him repeat that kind of performance but I can’t remind me of a time where he played well on consecutive weekends.
I also believe we’ll see this slowing of the ball from him again in a bid to counter the All Black quick game.
3 Oct 2012, 20:19 pm
@nama1-176: eish, all the way back in 1980? BrumbiesBoytjie was still a fervent Bok supporter then
it’s only when the number of black quotas increased that broke his back and he defected to supporting aus.
3 Oct 2012, 20:19 pm
@Transformation-175: My thoughts exactly, Heineken might have also been suffering from a bit of once bitten twice shy. We all know how well his substitutions went 2 weeks ago in Dunedin. I actually applaud his decision to thinking about best interest of team ahead of, “Well what are people gonna say, if i leave these two black players hanging on the side, surely this will be construed by the racial sensitive public negatively.”
3 Oct 2012, 20:20 pm
@nama1-176: danie gerber was a “quota”? what blasphemy
3 Oct 2012, 20:20 pm
@fitz1ella-172: Hi Skop.Dont always
get along,but respect you.
That is 2 average length posts without a
Fuckadilly
Rascist white scum
A.hole
Kant
White supremacist.
F uck
Truly refreshing.
I suspect that you
use theses words/terms more out of covenience than out of conviction..
Please,you are better than what you put yours out to be.
People here are laughing at you instead of with you.I suspect that you
do not need that.(Said with no religiosity)
Follow the AA precept “One post at a time”
Have a good night.
3 Oct 2012, 20:23 pm
@BokkeYouBeauties-180: yep, heyneke’s substitutions are no different from pdvs, they’ve cost us games.
3 Oct 2012, 20:23 pm
@nama1-176: Go read your #52 again – I was talking about quotas in general.
You obviously don’t understand what I’m saying about the government enforcing quotas so let’s leave it at that for now.
And did the current regime not learn from the previous one that sport & politics do not mix?? Really, I ask you with tears in my eyes.
BB out, back later or tomorrow.
3 Oct 2012, 20:25 pm
@BokkeYouBeauties-174:
The Boks had the better of the AB pack in Dunedin. And at Soccer City they won’t give one inch.
Although the match against the Aussies was effectively a warm-up for this Sat, what we do with ball is what counts. If we kick the ball down Dagg’s and Jane’s throat, like Morne and Kirchner did in Dunedin, then they will make you look silly. Both of them can take the ball in the air be it defence or attack.
Goosen might try one or two high bombs that land just outside the AB’s 22 – but then pressure needs to be exerted on the catcher. Habs will be up for it. But the Boks will need more than one chaser to exert that much more pressure.
And Goosen has the boot to pin the Ab’s in their own half against the touchline. That to me is effective tactical kicking.
Not just hail mary gary owens all day long.
3 Oct 2012, 20:29 pm
Jantjies has been exposed to Bok rugby before Goosen even though he never been chucked into the deep end yet.. and so has De Jongh already got 10 tests behind his name long before either Goosen or Taute did..
You want to tell me De Jongh has to be eased into test match conditions.. and protected for fear of stuffing up .. or Jantjies for that matter.. they both got way more test match BMT than perhaps Goosen, Taute and Lambie combined
Betcha any amount of dough that Jantjies wouldn’t be sporting a kicking rate of less than 50% in any test match environment the way Pienaar, and Morne Steyn is currently.
3 Oct 2012, 20:29 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-173: I hope we give them a right royal rogering for that comment Doll.
3 Oct 2012, 20:29 pm
@I am a stormer-169: @Transformation-175:
Do you honestly believe that those two boys will get the chances they deserve under HM? I definitely don’t and will be very much surprised if they do.
Jantjies: HM is on record as saying he prefers to have one experience and a youngster in his squad. Morne is so of the boil now that he left him out of the team (not the squad) but I think he’ll be back for the EOYT after his “mental break.” Where will that leave Jantjies? He’ll only feature when one of Goosen or Steyn is injured during HM’s tenure, I think.
de Jongh: Where will he stand if Fransie is back? Let’s say for the upcoming EOYT JdV is still there. Your top 3 center according to HM is then JdV, Fransie and Taute. When does he get these chances you guys are talking about? After JdV retired? What about Serfontein then? He must be groomed to be ready for 2015, not so?
No man, HM is playing games with these boys.
3 Oct 2012, 20:31 pm
@ryecatcher-182: laugh all you like ryecatcher.. zippedy do dah offa my nose … the joke maybe that the last laugh is more often with the clown than with the audience…
3 Oct 2012, 20:32 pm
You know, i’m really worried about Goosen. Very big ask of a youngster, earning only his second cap, to start at flyhalf opposite a legend of the game, against the number one team in the world, and in what many would term a must win game for South Africa. Heineken must lay awake in bed at night wondering how he could have been such a DW00S with regards to the whole Morne’ thing ..unforgivable, unless we win on Saturday
3 Oct 2012, 20:33 pm
@fitz1ella-189: No Joke No laughing.Was baing serious.
3 Oct 2012, 20:39 pm
@Transformation-181:
Yes, he was.
Selection criteria back then prohibited the selectors from choosing someone from the B-section for the Boks. EP were playing in the B-section back then with N.TVL, TVL, OVS, NAT, WP and Zim playing in the A-section. EP only started playing A-section in 1981 when oom Bob severed all ties with SA.
They introduced a quota system whereby the best player in the B-section can be selected for the Boks. Danie was the first. The last one was Botha Rossouw from Western Transvaal for the 1992 France/England tour after readmission.
3 Oct 2012, 20:40 pm
@nama1-188:
Jaco Taute was always going to be a Bok. But injured at the time.
JDJ was in the training squad but released to play CC. JJ Engelbrecht was retained.
So pecking order Taute, JJ and then JDJ.
Now it is Taute, JDJ and JJ out the picture – enter Mapoe. I’m sure JDJ will get more game time this weekend.
That was 13.
At FH, the pecking order right now is Goosen, Elton and then Morne. Goosen has been battling with a bruised heel which obviously effected his kicking last weekend. At least HM know he has Elton as back-up should things go pear-shaped.
3 Oct 2012, 20:41 pm
Bokke take it in the b um, black by plenty
3 Oct 2012, 20:42 pm
@BokkeYouBeauties-190: Goosen can crack under all this expectation.. last week they screwed up bad with taking all the heat off him when he was still raw..
He missed 2 kicks and then was relegated to being the link man and Pienaar took charge of the entire game..
I didn’t like that scenario at all.. a Gaffie setup if ever there was one.. Goosen should have been chucked straight back into the firing line against Aussie to build up confidence.. in a game that was tailor made for him to shine … this protectionism racket does not work.. he either got the BMT or he don’t.. by trying to preserve and mentor him into a position of game ready management they are delaying and waffling around the process.. He should have immediately got back into the saddle and taken charge of the kick duties once Pienaar had steadied the ship – Pienaar hardly had a flawless kicking game either – and Goosen should have been allowed to build up the confidence required to take on the AB’s this week..
Now he goes in relatively cold.. another couple fluffs or mistimed actions or kicks and his entire game can go belly up.. They missed a trick last week.. this conservatism don’t do anyone any good.. not the players and not the expectations built up over their heads… Goosen should be taking the bull by the horns and running with it not easing into being ‘ready’ to step up to the plate..
If he gets caught with a pressure situation it could actually undermine a very promising career and that would be as a result of too much conservative protectionism.. not because he was thrown into the deep end too early.
3 Oct 2012, 20:43 pm
@fitz1ella-157:
> That in itself paint a rather dismal picture of a coach who is purely ruled by certain preconditioned prejudices which are pretty much along identical lines to those of Herr Hondo.. which don’t paint a very pretty picture overall for rugby in this country if this ideological hogwash is going to continue to be represented by camouflaging the picture to look like a window dressing exercise in compromise..
Rather say:
That in itself paint a rather dismal picture of a coach who is purely ruled by fear or losing becuse of certain preconditioned prejudices of the rugby public who believes it’s better to win in the short team however scrappy it might be that to losing in the short term and building a winning team in the long run
A rugby public shouting “off with his head” at the drop of a hat
A rugby public so provincially biased, especially here on Keo, they were already baying for HM’s blood BEFORE he even had played a test (and that specifically includes you Skoppie, you wanted to fire him before he even started)
There just ain’t pleasing some people
3 Oct 2012, 20:43 pm
@ryecatcher-191: Its Ok .. you be serious.. I’ll stay laughing .. no sweat meneer
3 Oct 2012, 20:44 pm
15 straight V 1, every trophy there is to win V yip none.
3 Oct 2012, 20:44 pm
Pienaar for once played very well last week, which made the difference. Taute is the best fullback, Paul Jordaan the best outside centre and either Borg / Mvovo at wing. Elton Jantjies should start for his kicking abilities. Goosen, Hougaard, De Jongh, Lambie, Oosthuizen, van der Merwe, Marcell Coetzee should be brought on as impact players starting from 50 minutes. It’s when to bring on the changes that separates good from bad coaches
3 Oct 2012, 20:45 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-184:
What de vok you’re talking about? I did not post at #52.
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