ABs reaping benefits of Kiwi system
4 Oct 2012
JON CARDINELLI writes the All Blacks avoid mass injuries and burnout because the NZRU manages the country’s top players accordingly. Why can’t Saru do the same?
A good question was asked of All Blacks assistant coach Ian Foster this week. Why is it that the All Blacks seem to sustain fewer injuries than their Australian and South African counterparts?
Why is it that we are now into month 10 of the 2012 rugby season and the All Blacks aren’t missing key players because of injury and fatigue?
‘We do it differently,’ was Foster’s curt reply. ‘And I’m not going to tell you exactly what that entails.’
Foster doesn’t have to, it’s no big secret. The New Zealand Rugby Union has long looked after its most prized assets, that is its players.
Through a central-contracting system, it ensure that the cream of the crop don’t play too much rugby during the Super Rugby competition. The national team is viewed as the priority, and to compromise the success of that national team wouldn’t make much sense. Right?
Unfortunately, there is a different outlook in South Africa.
Every union and franchise looks after its own interests. Top players are contracted to a union as well as to Saru.
What this means is that a franchise has the option to start a Bok player in every Super Rugby game. Ultimately it is the franchise’s success that matters most to the franchise, not the success of the Boks.
It’s for this reason that we have players who arrive for Bok duty overplayed and fatigued. For example, Andries Bekker has long been considered indispensable to the Stormers’ Super Rugby cause, and has started the majority of the matches over the past three seasons. That workload has taken its toll on his body, and injuries have prevented him from playing more games for his country.
There are other examples across all of the South African franchises, and the point is that if South Africa employed the same system as New Zealand, the Boks may have more fit players available for the most important period of the season, that is the Rugby Championship.
The current system has been a handicap to every Springbok coach in the professional era. The system rewards the franchises when it should be geared towards propelling the Boks to that No 1 ranking. It is something that incumbent coach Heyneke Meyer has also made note of on several occasions.
On Wednesday, Meyer pointed to the example of Richie McCaw, the All Blacks captain and veteran who will enjoy a six-month sabbatical next season. This course of action will prolong McCaw’s career, and possibly allow him to play at the 2015 World Cup.
The NZRU keeps tabs on all of the All Blacks throughout the Super Rugby season, and ensures that nobody is overplayed before they join the national set-up for the June Tests or the Rugby Championship.
It’s been an intense season, the most congested in history, and still the All Blacks were able to produce their best performance of the year in Argentina. They are now in South Africa preparing for a physically taxing clash against the Boks on the Highveld, and still there is a sense that they are favourites. Why?
‘New Zealand manages their players very well,’ Meyer said on Wednesday when probed on the subject. ‘You can see what’s been done with Richie McCaw, and there are overall not as many injuries. Everybody seems to be working towards a common goal.’
Keeping players fresh allows for continuity in selection, and as Meyer suggests the All Blacks were able to win the 2011 World Cup because of that continuity. There aren’t as many injury disruptions because the NZRU is doing everything it can to prevent burnout and fatigue-related injuries.
Every South African franchise is chasing results and trophies, and every team is inclined to believe that the more they play their best players, the better their chances of achieving those lofty objectives.
And in that unfortunately all too real scenario, the national team is the biggest loser.
By Jon Cardinelli, in Johannesburg
425 Comments
4 Oct 2012, 05:09 am
I disagree. Highlighting the special treatment McCaw and Carter get hardly defines how they treat their senior players. These 2 are arguably the 2 greatest All Blacks of the last 20 years and probably in the top 5 of all time. Apart from them few other all blacks get sabbaticals etc. Most of the other senior players like Conrad Smith, Nonu, Mealamu, Dagg, Ali Williams and so forth have played just as much rugby as their SANZAR counterparts. Arguably more, as some like Nonu played the Japanese season too between the worldcup and superrugby. So using McCaw and Carter as an example is misplaced.
4 Oct 2012, 05:11 am
Rested dragons!
4 Oct 2012, 05:17 am
They (McCaw and Carter) are molly coddled very differently compared to the rest of the ABs and the reasons as I highlighted above are obvious, they are national treasures. Lets be frank, no current Springbok is a national treasure who deserves such treatment. And our past ‘legends’ were certainly wrapped in cotton wool when the opportunity arose, case in point the tri nations before the worldcup last year.
The reason the All Blacks don’t get as many injuries is a lot simpler…superior conditioning and a gameplan which doesn’t revolve around smash and bash ‘em “physicality” (which has still resulted in a poorer win/loss ratio top theirs). Hence why someone like Schalk Burger (who has had more or less a parallel career to McCaw in terms of timeline) already has a hospital bill longer than my leg. We like to brag and boast about how our style of play requires a physically superior tough South African mentaility and we brag at how are local derbies are bloodfests but in the end it’s this style that ultimately costs us.
4 Oct 2012, 05:19 am
And the Aussies struggle coz quite frankly they lack the depth hence they have no choice but to play themselves into the ground eg Genia, who has basically played for 3 years straight until his body has recently just given up and succumbed to injury.
4 Oct 2012, 05:23 am
The top 20 AB’s do get more rest dutring the super 15, and unless they are returning from injury they don’t play more than a couple of games in the NPC. Whereas the bok players do play the curry cup unless they are on bok duty. So overall, I think the AB’s do get more rest than your players.
Also, the AB management still rotate players over the course of the season. Using less pressured games to give younger players the chance to step up. (rotation is a dirty word in NZ since the 2007 WC, but it has stood the AB’s in good stead including at the 2011 WC.
4 Oct 2012, 05:28 am
Look most of the Kiwi’s dont play ITM cup, and neither do the Boks, until the week before semi final. But when it comes to super rugby, we do tend to play them into the ground. Time for better player management from the super rugby coaches and even the players
4 Oct 2012, 05:29 am
Mccaw and carter are getting this treatment because the nzru want them in the team to defend the cup in 2015. Personally I think this is a mistake, as I think both players are past their best and are unlikely to be world class come 2015. Even if they can hang in there, what is the chance of them both making it through the WC uninjured? Virtually nil!
While it will hurt our results for a couple of years, I think we should retire mccaw at the end of this year, and demote carter to a bench role.
4 Oct 2012, 05:30 am
With the season even longer, its time to have a squad of that can realistically play almost two sides in super rugby
4 Oct 2012, 05:39 am
If Victor Matfield had taken a few months off here and there he might still be playing but no the bulls played him into the ground.
4 Oct 2012, 05:42 am
People are pulling out stuff like “the top all blacks get rested during super rugby” but what is this based on?? have we all been watching the same season coz I certainly can’t recall a single all black outside of McCaw and Carter being given preferential treatment by any NZ franchise with regards to rest. The only ones that missed a few games were the ones who did so coz they were either fat/unfit/out of form ie Weepu and Nonu just after he returned from japan. Otherwise I saw all the other core senior players slugging it out week in week out for the Canes/Highlanders/Saders/Blues. And as for ITM cup well it’s no different to SA where most Boks miss the majority of the currie cup comp coz of international duty then return to play the finals
Case in point, probably the 3rd most valuable NZ player after McCaw and Carter this year was SBW and he ran out for The Chiefs all year long and was straighjt into international duty when the season ended. So I don’t know where this fantasy assesment of them being rested is coming from.
4 Oct 2012, 06:00 am
Well SARU have also been taking advice from Noakes, who has recently been exposed as a fake who has no idea.
That is right Tacklers toy thing was and is wrong, telling people to tear pages out of his book instead of offering a full refund for the garbage.
4 Oct 2012, 06:25 am
If we were less obssessed with running over people our players would not have so many injuries. But since we do not want players with brains its unlikely to happen very soon.
4 Oct 2012, 06:47 am
Stubborness kills SA rugby. SA looks at what the rest of the world is doing successfully then stubbornly decides to ignore it. SA in general very slow to adapt to change whatever it is. CONSERVATIVE to the max.
4 Oct 2012, 06:57 am
@corporal punishment-7:
‘past their best’ ?
McCaw, on 1 leg, completed fked-up Pocock – supposedly ‘the best openside in World Rugby” – on 1 leg during the RWC Semi. And then bettered that with complete domination of the same player in Sydney this year.
He then showcased his incredible athleticism vs Boks in Dunedin in no less than the 75th min when tired opposition looked like statues as he scorched up to a kick that hit the post and collected it on the half-volley in 1 hand. Incredible.
McCaw has such a hoodoo on the Boks, they can send 2 of their biggest thugs crashing in to his face, and he still stands up, unfazed, in just enough time to see them marched off.
As for Carter being ‘past his best’, not too many others can recuperate from injury for 5weeks and then return, for a tough away fixture, and play spellbinding rugby like he did in Buenos Aires.
4 Oct 2012, 06:59 am
*cue Tacitus to tell you Cardinelli that NZ have the “communist” central contracting system because they’re poor!
In SA, Tac says, why should a fush union like the Bulls be punished for their fiscal discipline & success?
why should the Bulls stand cap in hand at SARU headquarters with financial failures like the Lions waiting for their ration of players?
4 Oct 2012, 07:07 am
@corporal punishment-7: they may not be as good as they use to be a few years ago (even though I think McCaw has become better) they are still the best in their position.
2015 is a long way away and who knows whats going to happen. I personally don’t see much differents in the amounts of players that get injured from both countries, some are just missed more than others.
4 Oct 2012, 07:13 am
@flanka-1: here we go…
http://www.allblacks.com/news/16330/Blues-and-Mealamu-show-player-management-blueprint
4 Oct 2012, 07:16 am
Damn you Trannie, for stealing my thunder.
Glad I read through the comments first, before compiling a detailed reply, cause it would just have said what Trannie summarised in post 15 above.
4 Oct 2012, 07:17 am
@The Donkeys Egg-14: Was it at that point you climaxed ? .. Go off to Silverfern and drool over Reeche …
4 Oct 2012, 07:20 am
its a sausage fest….
blegh….
4 Oct 2012, 07:37 am
@The Donkeys Egg-14: eggy McCheat is going to break down before 2015 due to old age, and all the cheats men will not be able to put him together again.
4 Oct 2012, 07:38 am
@RL-11: Told you so, pilgrims… heh heh…
4 Oct 2012, 07:47 am
@The Donkeys Egg-14: ag please you sound like a teenage girl swooning over an idol you p us s y.
flo completely killed him in dunedin. in fact besides for sitting on the ground on his a r se and fiddling in the ruck which got him the facial massages he was looing for, i barely knew he was on the field.
4 Oct 2012, 07:49 am
@The Donkeys Egg-14: p.s. he is the finest cheat to ever play the game.
a serial cheater who leads teams taught to cheat.
a cheating pied piper if you will?
4 Oct 2012, 07:50 am
Personally I believe that the S15 teams should be allowed to expand their squad sizes and then use the extra players to rotate the ‘run-on’ team better – this should lighten the players work load and therefore assist with avoiding injures and burnout,
Perhaps make S15 squads 40 (up by 10) and do something similar for the Currie Cup as well.
4 Oct 2012, 08:00 am
@rangerman-23:
That won’t go down well with Bellywobble.
4 Oct 2012, 08:04 am
@gunther-26: i think he got so flustered after his ode to reechee that he had to go for a lie down.
4 Oct 2012, 08:12 am
SA coaches are too afraid to rest their stars and give fringe players a go, and I don’t see why. WP had to have 5 injured flyhalves a couple of years ago before they discovered Catrakilis. Look at all the young centers coming through now. And dropping a player for a week or two does wonders, eg. Bekker.
I use the Stormers as an example because I’m a fan and I think they are the worst of all the SA teams at this. It doesn’t help you grind your players and win all your games and the players are done when it comes to the main event. They have done this now for 3 years. How much longer before we learn?
4 Oct 2012, 08:13 am
@Transformation-17: As far as i can see after reading that article, they’re (in a nutshell) talking about less training. It’s a Blues centred article that has nothing to do with NZRU policies or the ABs. You can barely use that article to laud the NZRUs masterplan. Far from what JC is trying to (falsely) imply that there’s somekind of big meeting that happens at NZRU offices where a grandskeem is concocted to rest and rotate senior All Blacks throughgout the Super season. The article you’ve posted more or less agrees with my point regarding Mealamu playing week in week out. Were you posting the article to agree with me or disagree? A little confused…
4 Oct 2012, 08:18 am
@flanka-29:
I agree with you flanka on your second post regarding superior conditioning and gameplan…..I would add a little more rest too helps with the conditioning and recupperation
4 Oct 2012, 08:18 am
@flanka-3: Agree.
The game plan needs to change as well. Someone else also mentioned it once. The Boks can never be dominant force for a long period because of the way we play. The players will eventually get injured.
4 Oct 2012, 08:21 am
@Transformation-17: And in that article the Blues management of players by reducing training during the week is mainly for their Finals campaign benefit, not the All Blacks. And not to forget that the article is being highlighted because it was 2011 (RWC year) and if I’m correct a lot of senior boks got a whoooole lotta rest before the worldcup too.
At the end of the day we see more injuries in our players because of our playing style and physicality that doesn’t get partnered with smarts, which still reaps a mediocre win/loss ratio….thats the reality. Our playing style worked in the amateur days before professionalism, it doesn’t work now. In modern times you can’t play the game like a Schalk Burger and expect to have an injury free long prosperous career. The NZ and aus sides lick their lips duriong superrugby when they have to play an SA side the week after a local derby.
4 Oct 2012, 08:24 am
@Te Rangatira-30: Yup…balanced training, better conditioning and a smarter gameplan. Not bigwigs in the NZRU Wellington offices drafting a skeem to protect senior players. It’s not rocket science. But then again, neither was dropping Morne Steyn earlier in the championship…we are a little slow in picking up on things sadly
4 Oct 2012, 08:27 am
Truth be told, if most, if not all, NZ S15 franchises weren’t joined at the financial hip of the NZRU, they would gladly wring every last drop out of their players, irrespective of their status.
However, I also believe the assumption Cardinelli has made is flawed. NZ regularly suffers injuries to key players just like SA, but the impact of those injuries has been less this year.
4 Oct 2012, 08:38 am
@flanka-33:
Sorry, the AB’s coach has the ability to advise franchises in how they want NZ central contracted players to be used.
The Super 15 coach may elect to ignore that “advice”, but like any employee anywhere, disregarding instructions from a superior had better pay off spectacularly, or there will be hell to pay.
4 Oct 2012, 08:59 am
The NZ system is far ahead of ours in all aspects, not just the physical management of players, but also in the development of potential emerging Boks. They would never allow franchises to hoard young players with AB potential at the expense of other franchises and the players exposure to gametime in the S15.
We currently have a situation where the best Lions players are going to Franchises who already have young players in those positions whilst the Kings are forced to recruit foreigners.
I realise that the LIons and anti Cheeky supporters believe this a welcome payback but it does nothing for SA rugby or the players.
4 Oct 2012, 09:00 am
@Brads-35: I know that, thats not my point. My point is it doesn’t happen. JC is basically trying to take of the advantage of the fact that the ABs currently don’t have injuries to try make it seem like Hansen waves his magic wand all over NZ belting out commands to the coaches, which simply isn’t true. ABs play just as long
4 Oct 2012, 09:05 am
When you compare the boks against the ABs (best team in the world), you probably look at player vs player in each position first… Our team dont really stand back in most positions…
Secondly you look to compare defence, attacking, skills, scrum and tactics/gameplan (coaching) etc. If the team selections keep on improving and the players implement, hopefully a superior tactical game, they will become the best… But like this article suggested, player management will have to be the best in the world too….
So we all know we have the players, so after a year is it fair to say that the coaching will be to blame if the boks dont become just as competitive as the ABs…?
Or will player management carry more weight when we dont reach that ‘realistic’ goal to become the best team in the world?
Here’s hoping we come on top, but what factors will have to become world class?
4 Oct 2012, 09:15 am
@flanka-37:
Okay, I accept you clarification.
Yes, the Bokke confrontational style of play, “running through players” as distinct from the AB’s “running between players” is inherently more likely to cause injuries.
But that said, NZ is not immune to injuries. We have had them in spades over the last few years, it just happens we are lightly affected at the minute.
4 Oct 2012, 09:16 am
@rangerman-23:
you talk a big game for a team that loses 4 out of every 10 tests it plays
4 Oct 2012, 09:32 am
@flanka-1: The key difference is that they look after their fetcher and flyhalf, the 2 most NB players in a team. O and they select the best ones on a consistent bases
4 Oct 2012, 09:39 am
@flanka-29: I’m with you 100% on this. Firstly that article was written last year, and secondly, the layoffs to McCaw and Carter were injury enforced. When they’ve been fit I cannot think of a single example of them being “rested”, certainly not at game time anyway.
If it has more to do with how they are managed at training time, who’s to say that we can’t (and don’t) do the same??
i know for a fact that Alistair did implement that sort of program this year, not that it helped mind you.
I’d like a concrete example of a top 35 player (i.e. someone important to the AB cause) being rested at game time. McCaw and Carter I’ve dealt with above. The case of Carter is actually an illustration of the opposite, as they played him before he was totally recovered in a few games, just taking his kicking duties away from him and in some cases playing him at 12.
McCaw played through last year’s WC with a foot injury that he would otherwise have rested, and Carter missed it. Their 2 best players. (Yes they won it anyway).
It may well have to do with the way they play, that’s possibly part of the explanation, another part of it may be the type of gym work that they do, I’ve watcher videos of their training and the gym work is comparatively light, enough to keep them physical, but not that extra 10 or 20 % that may put extra strain on the tendons etc that we seem to relish. Much of their training is on the field with more commando type training, body-weight exercises etc.
4 Oct 2012, 09:43 am
@flanka-29: “Far from what JC is trying to (falsely) imply that there’s somekind of big meeting that happens at NZRU offices where a grandskeem is concocted to rest and rotate senior All Blacks throughgout the Super season.”
since 2007 Henry has been allowed to RECOMMEND what he would like to see happen to his players for example in one year – 2010 or 2011 – he recommended a mandatory 2 week break on top of the byes – for all his core players, the NZRU agreed and duly informed all the coaches to adhere to it and impliment it.
remember in ’07 when Henry pulled all this All Blacks from the 1st half of Super Rugby? he made the call the NZRU discussed and agreed!
4 Oct 2012, 09:46 am
@NZINCHINA-40: Not when he’s talking about a team that loses about half the time against the boks.
All Blacks record against the boks 55%
All Blacks record against the woblies 68%
4 Oct 2012, 09:49 am
@stormersboy-42: agreed. even when jake white arrived at the brumbies he made a song and dance about how professional the science behind the players was, diet/conditioning/training etc….sadly i think we’re still a bit behind in this regard and so our only excuse is “the provinces play them too much”…not quite true
4 Oct 2012, 09:52 am
@Transformation-43: Those are RWC measures and we’ve done them before too, both in 07 and 2011. obviously the central contracting in NZ makes it slightly more smoother, but it still happens in World Cup years in SA.
4 Oct 2012, 09:53 am
@stormersboy-42:
Pre 2007 WC Henry took his first choice players away and put them on a conditioning program and held them back from Super rugby duties until a few weeks into the competition.
When these guys eventually turned out for Super games they looked imposing with muscles bulging all over their bodies.
Then the s.hit hit the fan with injuries.
4 Oct 2012, 09:54 am
@rangerman-24: LOL
4 Oct 2012, 09:58 am
AB’s out this season due to injury – Ali Williams, Isaiah toeava, Richard Kahui and Anthony Boric and Jerome kaino (shoulder reconstruction, which was the reason he decided to go to Japan in order to prolong his career). Richie missed most of the super 15 season and was obviously of the pace in the first two matches against Ireland. Dan carter been out for majority of tests this season as well.
4 Oct 2012, 09:58 am
@rangerman-24: Why has no one asked why the brain dead one hit Richie when he was in an offsides position
and the ref made no attempt to penalise(r m)
4 Oct 2012, 10:00 am
@goodstuff-44:
I don’t live in twilight land where wins in the historical past influence the next game being played.
Where I live says that in the professional era South Africa have lost at home to New Zealand 12 out of 21 times.
New Zealand may well lose on Saturday, but it will have f.uck all to do with what went on in the past.
4 Oct 2012, 10:00 am
@goodstuff-44:
McCaw is always owned when he plays SA very amusing
4 Oct 2012, 10:01 am
The international rugby model needs to change.
The sanzar buisness model needs to change.
At the moment it suits the kiwis and ozzies…we all know this. The Ozzies just have significantly fewer players to call on. Also, in a country where rugby comes 3-4th in popularity, Franchises are under pressure to grow their brands and market their players.
So long as these countries get a fair share of divedends…SA will always come 3rd.
NZ franchises are (seemingly) never under any pressure to grow their brands and support base. If they were, this would mean them playing their big names and being very reluctant to rest stars.
Our new prolonged superseason and love/reluctence to do away with the CC also does us no favors.
I propose WC every 4 years and rugby championshsip every 4 years. Basically a comp every 2 years. In the intermitent years no more than 4 tests.
Superrugby expands by 1 more team making it 16 teams and settles into a euefa champions league format.
4 Oct 2012, 10:03 am
Goodstuff was going back to 1900 before the introduction of neutral refs, I think you’ll find all teams won more in SA after they were introduced.
4 Oct 2012, 10:03 am
AB’s out this season due to injury – Ali Williams, Isaiah toeava, Richard Kahui, Anthony Boric and Jerome kaino (shoulder reconstruction, which was the reason he decided to go to Japan in order to prolong his career). Richie missed most of the super 15 season and was obviously of the pace in the first two matches against Ireland. Dan carter been out for majority of tests this season as well. Conrad missed a couple of tests,
There will also be players who could have debuted for the AB’s this year but have missed out due to injury – eg tj perana.
Not as bad as the boks, and nothing like the Aussies. But we have definitely had to do some juggling.
4 Oct 2012, 10:04 am
This will cheer up you Yarpies, Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zve1YKt_Ex4
4 Oct 2012, 10:04 am
@ryecatcher-50:
I know Richie is special, but the ability to teleport has not been endowed on him yet.
That will be next years skill enhancement.
4 Oct 2012, 10:07 am
@Brads-47: Yes, the gym over-training factor is something I can personally buy into.
I take myself as an example. Due to my own bad injury management back when I played at Varsity I have 2 bad knees (both operated on) and DDD (Lower spine weakness and injury). In order to manage that I keep up a gym program that incorporates a lot of compound exercises like squats, dead-lifts, olympic lifts etc. The whole idea is to make sure that my body is strengthened throughout it’s whole range of motion, not just in one specific area. I have found that over the years I’ve become much stronger and able to do things in everyday life that otherwise may have hurt me. What I do find however is that if I pack that extra 20 – 40kgs on the squat rack, that although I can lift it, that after 2 or 3 sessions at that weight my knees begin to ache, not in the joints where the injuries are, but around the tendons and ligaments supporting the muscle. I have to rest for a week or so after that or I risk actual injury.
My point is that if you push that extra bit, you will get stronger, but you may well get more injury prone. I think that our guys are guilty of the “gym strongman” ego trap. Take Sadie for example. He was quoted in a mag article saying about how he’d put on 20kg’s of muscle in 3 months since joining the Bulls and how they got so much more out of him. Then he got injured and he’s not been a factor at all this season.
4 Oct 2012, 10:11 am
@stormersboy-58:
yip strange…whenever I jog beyond 5km’s, my knee starts hurting.
4 Oct 2012, 10:11 am
I just can’t see the Cannibals beating us in Soweto …. Boks by 5!
4 Oct 2012, 10:12 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-53:
What c.rap.
Your suggestion is another version of throwing your toys because you didn’t win, even though your country designed the current format.
***** bells, the regular changes that have been made to the format over the years were all promoted by losers.
4 Oct 2012, 10:13 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-59: Ja. I haven’t been able to run 5kms in many years, mine are so bad unfortunately. I have to cycle and swim to get cardio, a shorter, faster 2.4km is more suited to me.
4 Oct 2012, 10:18 am
OK so based on these comments can we say that the myth of a central system is just that in this instance, a myth? yes it’s obviously helpful in other ways, the national coach is more respected at local level (wonder why??
) and his requests are given more weight.
Many AB’s have come down with significant injuries this year as we’ve seen above, so I’m not convinced.
I call BS.
4 Oct 2012, 10:20 am
@Brads-61:
I look to football for viable working and business solutions.
For no other reason as there is significantly more money involved with huge player salaries.
So, basically, if we still want test rugby to have some significance there needs to be far fewer tests played or we just start writing everything outside of the worldcup off…as friendlies.
The best footballing calibre is championsleague, I would say a decent step up to international football. Maybe knockout worldcup, but game for game…champions league.
personally, i believe rugby needs to follow a similar model.
4 Oct 2012, 10:21 am
@stormersboy-63: here here!
4 Oct 2012, 10:25 am
@15 Transformation have to laugh at a theory some SAFFAS have that NZ is “poor”. Have you seen the GDP per capita figures for NZ compared to SA…… the average Kiwi is worth more than DOUBLE the average SAFFA.
NZ which has just 4.3 million people, has an economy which is 40% the size of the SA economy, though SA has 50 million people. The NZ dollar is worth more than 80 US cents, the Rand is worth just a few US cents.
NZ doesn’t waste money on grandiose stadiums which it doesn’t need. NZ pumps it’s money into services such as healthcare and education.
4 Oct 2012, 10:25 am
@RL-11: give your mouth a chance mate
4 Oct 2012, 10:27 am
@stormersboy-58:
Exactly.
Back in the day when players weren’t paid they got partially fit through their vocation, but generally played hard and only the unlucky few were injured.
Today, players are bigger, heavier and can cause more damage in the contact area, but are just as likely to cause an injury to themselves.
I surely don’t have an answer to the issue.
4 Oct 2012, 10:28 am
@stormersboy-58: ha ha ha 20 kgs of muscle in 3 months.
somebody take out your testing kits
4 Oct 2012, 10:29 am
@stormersboy-63:
I second that motion.
4 Oct 2012, 10:32 am
@Brads-68: more rugby,bigger,stronger,faster and greedier players and coaches,less or shortened rest periods are the reasons for injuries
4 Oct 2012, 10:33 am
@saru1983-69: it may have been longer, but the point I was making is that all that extra muscle is not exactly helping his career.
These guys are tested at this level so I’m not at all thinking anything untoward.
It’s possible for sure.
4 Oct 2012, 10:36 am
flanka – You are forgetting how Os Du Randt was managed for RWC2007, and he performed ver very well!!!
Which is how J Smit & Matfield should have been managed before the last RWC but they were both played into the ground!!
Bekker is a player that should be managed, because he offers the Boks something special, tallest O in world rugby!!!
Take M Steyn for instance, from 2009 that man had not had a break from internationals or Super rugby no wonder he has burnt out! The Bulls sold JP Potgieter and i knew after that M Steyn would be running on empty and he still hasn’t recovered!!
4 Oct 2012, 10:36 am
its because we in NZ are tough, not soft like our saffa and Aussie “brothers”..
there is no other reason.
4 Oct 2012, 10:37 am
On an aside, when I’ve been at gym and seen some of the guys training there (The boks) I’ve noticed that they often concentrate on arm exercises which don’t really help on the field but do make them look strong in their “toit” jerseys and T-shirts.
Too many arm curls and not enough explosive movements.
4 Oct 2012, 10:38 am
@race of tan-73: I agree with you on the need to manage Bekker better. On form he is head and shoulders (literally) above the other no 5 locks in SA.
4 Oct 2012, 10:38 am
@NZINCHINA-40:
hows the hangover china?
you were on fine form last night being as arrogant as ever.
@ryecatcher-50: he was playing on his pipe mesmerising the ref like a cobra whisperer in india.
he thought the bok cobras had had their fangs pulled though.
he was wrong.
4 Oct 2012, 10:39 am
@poppa69-74: ja ja
4 Oct 2012, 10:39 am
NZINCHINA #52 – McCaw is only owned when the ABs play France (tee hee). Those frgos have got the ABs no boy, come next RWC and they will eat you alive (tee hee)!!
4 Oct 2012, 10:40 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-64:
The Rugby Championship is not even over and you are suggesting changes.
Why?
Well I suspect it is because this version hasn’t proven a model that produced an instant return to normality.
Normality being where the Bokke are the storm troopers of world rugby, crushing all before them, with the occasional set back turned back on the upstart with devastating results.
4 Oct 2012, 10:41 am
stormersboy – After the last game on Saturday are the Boks straight into CC or do they get a bit of time off?
4 Oct 2012, 10:42 am
@poppa69-74: just curious what r the proffesions of most of NZ players
im not talking abt the all blacks here but rather the 2nd and 3rd tier players who still have to hold down a job
4 Oct 2012, 10:43 am
@saru1983-71:
That’s the reality of professional sport.
4 Oct 2012, 10:43 am
@poppa69-74: you are not in nz poops.
ergo you are a p us sy
4 Oct 2012, 10:46 am
here we automatically get poached by varsities u dnt really have to study if u good enough and u automatically get ur degree.There are no real tough ******** who had to struggle and work hard
hence we have a bunch of softies on the rugga field
4 Oct 2012, 10:47 am
@race of tan-81: They are released back to their respective unions who’s call it is.
4 Oct 2012, 10:47 am
@saru1983-82:
I suspect they are the same as they are in SA.
What are the vocations of the average Vodafone Cup player?
4 Oct 2012, 10:48 am
@stormersboy-58: what about the stormers getting “extra heavey dumbells” for eben
4 Oct 2012, 10:49 am
why is h a r d m en banned
4 Oct 2012, 10:50 am
I do long for the days when SA used to be able to match us on the rugby field, nowadays we are winning games at an alarming fashion..
I think we should not play SA until they prove they are good enough for our team to play against..
perhaps they should play Lithuania and those sort of teams just to help their confidence..
SA rugby is k@k
4 Oct 2012, 10:50 am
stormersboy – Well that is just player suicide!! I believe the bench warmers and Goosen should play etc but the rest should play no part in CC!!! Especialy the forwards!!!
4 Oct 2012, 10:51 am
@Brads-87: most of them have degrees bcause they firstly are poached by the elite schools then the varsities and these are vodacom cup spoilt brats
4 Oct 2012, 10:52 am
@Transformation-88: yes I thought of him when i was typing the post.
4 Oct 2012, 10:53 am
poppa69 #90 – I tell the French on you!!! They can then come down to New Zealand and whip you in your own back yard, tee hee!! The French are AB destroyers!!! Alle Le Blue
But to comment on your arrogant post, PDV racked up 2 wins in NZ during his reign!! We got the last shout at Dunedin, so your comment holds no wait!!
SA still has the best record against you!!!
4 Oct 2012, 10:54 am
@race of tan-73: Smit and Matfield got time off during the 2011 tri nations and not to forget Bulls didn’t even play finals rugby and Smit was regularly rotated with Bissy at the sharks so not sure what you’re talking about.
As for Steyn, there’s a difference bnetween being injured and being out of form. I won’t accept that just because Steyn is out of form and performing below par we should blame Bulls coaches that have “run him into the ground”. Especially when one considers he’s been quite average for 2 years now. No, don’t buy it guvnor.
4 Oct 2012, 10:54 am
@race of tan-91: between all the Super Rugby, June Tests, Tri Nations, CC (even if it’s only the tail end) and End of season tours the players are overplayed for sure.
4 Oct 2012, 10:55 am
@saru1983-92: so SA rugby players are the smarter ones in SA society?
4 Oct 2012, 10:55 am
@saru1983-92: never worked an honest day in their life
back in the day u had farmers, builders, hardworking tough ******** who didnt need the gym
4 Oct 2012, 10:57 am
@race of tan-94: these two wins PDV got in NZ, you do know the first one was the first one in more than a decade?
actually, the “last shout” at Dunedin was a few weeks back, or do you mean the old stadium? well one win in 87 years at the old stadium sure is a talking point, not sure youd want to use it as an argument for though
4 Oct 2012, 10:58 am
@poppa69-97: just bcause they r at university doesnt make them smart
arrogant and spoilt prima donnas r the words that *** to mind
4 Oct 2012, 10:58 am
@race of tan-73: And i suspect Bekkers injuries are more closely related to his freakish physique and poor conditioning to cater for it rather than being overplayed.
4 Oct 2012, 10:59 am
@poppa69-90:
You’ve just had it easy this year. The Springboks and Aussie team have been below par and the Argies were good , but never a real threat.
4 Oct 2012, 10:59 am
@Brads-80:
the rugby championship i can deal with….it’s the inbound tours and end of year that really annoy me.
if you had a rugby championship every 4 years with, say only 4-5 tests in the inbetween years…..we could have a return to “tours”. Your 4-5 tests could be in the form of a Lions tour or a proper grandslam or,etc,etc
Basically, fewer games of far more interest not neccessarliy a complaint at the rugby championship per se but the entire international rugby playing model.
or, as i said,( in the current format) keep playing any number of “test matches” every year…but lets just write them off as “friendlies” then , so the coach can select any number of nobies just for a look and feel because I see no reason why franchises who fight for a players signature, invest heavily in the player, once he reaches the required level of performance….suddenly the International coach gets to cherry pick him or rest him !!! and the franchise is suddenly not entitled to a return on their investment?!?!?!
the current business model that is being discussed would not work in any other open and competitive market. And,as I said in the beginning, the only reason that the Kiwis survive doing things the way they do is because they get a fair share of financial divedends via the sanzar agreement for superrugby.
4 Oct 2012, 11:00 am
@flanka-3:
Pure common sense. Bashing and bashing. Something gotta give in, simple as that. I t is not sustainable. That is what you get from donkey rugby. Insanity if you ask me.
4 Oct 2012, 11:00 am
poppa69 – I meant the old one. And don’t say it didn’t matter coz Dan Carter was clearly upset that the Boks won the last ever test to be played there, similar to Germany getting the last shout at the old wembley(football) stadium!!!
4 Oct 2012, 11:01 am
come .b a s t a r d s banned words stop censoring me or ill have to call legion to DDoS this site
4 Oct 2012, 11:02 am
@wp_boytjie-102: nah, we’ve just been better, plain and simple.. even when we’ve been poor we’ve been able to win games, sign of a great team.. if we lose this weekend, no shame in it at all, 1 from 16 is a stat I dont think any kiwi would be upset with
the rest is just fancy window dressing to hide the dust gathering in the corner..
4 Oct 2012, 11:03 am
@flanka-101:
exactly correct….bekker hardly ever plays. Hell, he had a near enough 7 month break before superrugby as he did not make the worldcup. Even in superrugby he missed more than enough games through injury. And it has been like that almost every season. In fact, I fail to see how he can even still be considered “full time”.
In any other operational business…..he’d be considered “Casual”…no work-no pay.
4 Oct 2012, 11:03 am
flanka #101 – Becuase Bok rugby is played very hard and straight, our players do need to be managed.
How come this year many of the Bok top players started breaking down?
Those extended S15 home derby games are frightening, am not too sure what it is like in NZ or OZ but the SA S15 teams go out to kill one another!!
4 Oct 2012, 11:04 am
@Peter Mkata-104: its why richie mcaw will play till he is 40 and schalk only played till 28
4 Oct 2012, 11:04 am
@Transformation-15:
LOL. You and Tacitus are like twins who love to hate each other.
4 Oct 2012, 11:04 am
@race of tan-105: we let you guys win that one, and in return we then decided we’d win the first EVER test at Soccer city..
we are the spiritual guardians of the game after all, it is our duty to make sure all other nations have their moments too..
(by the way, we were never officially thanked for 95, is it in the mail? )
4 Oct 2012, 11:06 am
Peter Mkata – Agreed. SA rugby is very straight and hard and takes it toll eventually.
Look at Joost(motor skill syndrome), Andre Venter is in a wheel chair, Ruben Kruger had brain surgury, Krynauw Otto as well. Those men where Bok legends but played into the ground!!
I have just made myself sad, merde!!!
4 Oct 2012, 11:07 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-108: bekker makes his best plays on the bench, just dont tell Mrs bekker
4 Oct 2012, 11:08 am
@Peter Mkata-111: More like neighbors.
4 Oct 2012, 11:08 am
@flanka-45: part of this debate jake got into in 2006 when he complained about where his identified players were being fielded by unions…this is what meyer is wishing for and has been hinting at even in terms of playing style.
White wants more control
This entry was posted on Monday, July 17th, 2006
Jake White’s latest gripe is with the lack of control he has over Vodacom Super 14 franchises in this country, and how it affects the Springboks.
The fact that he has no say of who plays where in terms of both position and franchise is, as he says, to the detriment of the national game.
“Things can’t work if the Springbok flyhalf plays fullback for his franchise, the openside flank plays on the blindside, the inside centre at outside centre and the props are played out of position too,” White told the media in Wellington.
White used the systems in place in New Zealand as a example to illustrate his point. The Kiwis have had a stronghold on Super Rugby since it’s inception in 1996, and have also dominated the international game for over a decade.
“So we must be crazy not to see the benefits in their system, from which they are getting a lot more return than us,” said White.
“New Zealand contract all their top players. So when players like Mils Muiliaina and Byron Kelleher are told to move to another franchise, they become better players and New Zealand get more competitive teams.
“Every decision is based on the good of the All Blacks team.”
4 Oct 2012, 11:10 am
@rangerman-77:
hello Ranger yes it was a big night, you all set for Saturday you seem very confident which is good to see?
4 Oct 2012, 11:12 am
@race of tan-113:@race of tan-113: with motor skill syndrome he should have been swept up by an F1 team ages ago
4 Oct 2012, 11:13 am
@poppa69-107:
Yea you have been better by a mile , but even your team is a long way off from the squad of 2005,2006 that could change an entire 15 and still smash any northern hemisphere team by 40 points. If Aussies have Pocock , Genia , Cooper and Horwill firing next year and we have one year behind us as a new team things can be a lot different. But for now yea enjoy your purple patch i guess
4 Oct 2012, 11:13 am
@poppa69-90:
Poppa, post that after the match on Saturday. LOL.
4 Oct 2012, 11:14 am
Transformation – England has the same problem as we do which is why when Woodward got in he managed to get more control over his top players and reaped the rewards!!
Am not sure if SA will ever change! Too stuck in provincialism!
4 Oct 2012, 11:14 am
@poppa69-112:
How many points will we take them by Pops?
4 Oct 2012, 11:15 am
@race of tan-113: One has to wonder, hey?
4 Oct 2012, 11:15 am
saru1983 – What is that disease called then that Joost has? It affects a persons motor skills i.e. co-ordination!!
4 Oct 2012, 11:20 am
motor neuron i think
4 Oct 2012, 11:24 am
@Peter Mkata-120:
Not much has changed.
Thats an in house joke amongst the kiwis of keo.
If you didnt know we were told we had a kak rugby team…posted by Keo before the 2010 3 nations.
Now we all know how that turned out.
Some of these clowns on here jumped at it saying the boks shouldnt even leave the plane until we get better…..then oh what the word am i looking for……its a famous word….. thats right….BOOOOOOOMMMMMM.
Back on the plane tail between there legs and keo fans doing the usual…refs…poaches…we cheat.
4 Oct 2012, 11:25 am
@Transformation-116: their central communist system will be the death of them – no sane investor wants to invest into their franchises because the NZRU wants to appoint the coaches and hold the player contracts.
SARU has to be brave and break the 49% limit on the franchises then you will see how the kiwis and convicts get left behind.
4 Oct 2012, 11:26 am
@Transformation-116: Mate, I see the point you’re trying to make but what I’m saying is that the centralized system isn’t as ‘communist’ or controlling as people think. The NZRU don’t just hold players on strings and organise who goes to which franchise. They’re still fiercely independent franchises with moves made that don’t necessarily benefit the all blacks. I’ll give you examples…
Nonu moving from Canes to Blues was down to personality clashes with Hammett. It didn’t benefit NZ having Nonu move. In many peoples eyes it weakened the canes midfield and caused his mate Weepu to follow him which also wasn;t ideal (Weepu was a popular local boy in wellington who formed a core part of the leadership group). Weepu moving to Blues virtually ended Alby Matthewsons career making him call time on NZ and move to the Force (next season)…this again was detrimental to NZRU. SBW leaving Saders for Chiefs was purely based on him wanting to be closer to family and having enough of the drama in Christchurch and left them with a big midfield void which clearly showed this season.
Most ABs are stacked in the Crusaders and Chiefs and there’s never a re-distribution of wealth to ‘share the love’ or ‘balance things out’. My point- we are putting way too much emphasis on the centralization system and normally we only have a whinge when something goes wrong i.e bad run of injuries, or jake white throwing his toys out the cott coz of sharks wanting john smit to play prop instead of hooker etc…..it’s an overrated system.
4 Oct 2012, 11:27 am
@saru1983-125: probably got it snorting bath salts from a man *****’s panties.
keo better be careful
4 Oct 2012, 11:29 am
@Peter Mkata-120: are you going to be wearing black in Soweto on saturday?
uzakubethwa uphambane eKasi
4 Oct 2012, 11:30 am
@Transformation-116: And while I disagree with a lot of things Tac writes I certainly agree that socialism in the pro age isn’t fair. Lions had wealthy backers and are based in south africa’s richest city but due to poor business management they’ve made a hash of their union…so why should an organised union like The Bulls have to suffer for their mismanagement?
4 Oct 2012, 11:31 am
Peter Mkata. hope you are well bru. just a bit of fun
NZinChina. u say we take them by 14. allowing them some Kate points to make it respectable
Hurri. wasn’t that a grand dose of karma
4 Oct 2012, 11:32 am
farken predictive text.
4 Oct 2012, 11:42 am
Hope nobody has posted this yet. Nice article.
Brenden Nel – SuperSport
Johannesburg – Despite the fact that the Springboks dominated the All Blacks in Dunedin, former All Black flyhalf and discarded Lions backline coach Carlos Spencer has predicted the world champions will “destroy” the Boks this weekend in their Rugby Championship clash at FNB Stadium.
According to the supersport.com website, Spencer, who was fired as Lions backline coach, told Fairfax Media that the world champions will put matters back in perspective this weekend with a match that will bring Bok fans crashing down to earth.
The former All Black believes Australia were so bad in their five-try defeat at the hands of the Boks at Loftus that the All Blacks would show the Boks just how out of touch with reality they are.
“The Springboks obviously needed a good win but the Aussie weren’t great. I think the All Blacks will destroy them this week,” Spencer said.
“It will be a big confidence booster for the Springboks. There was a lot of pressure on them over here in terms of their last couple of efforts. They played some good rugby at times and didn’t kick away as much ball as they had previously. That’s definitely a step in the right direction for them.
“But they are going to come up against a better defence this week. If they can hold the ball for long periods and not kick it away they’ll be in with a chance, but the All Blacks will be too good for them.”
Spencer believes the fact the All Blacks have claimed the Rugby Championship already will allow them to play with a freedom seldom seen and will lift the tension of the occasion and motivate them more.
New Zealand have won 15 consecutive games thus far, within sight of the 17 which is the world-record for tier one nations.
“They’ve already got the trophy in the bag so they can go out there and express themselves with no pressure to win it,” he said.
“I’ve been in that situation before with the Blues when you’ve already secured a semi-final spot. You never go out there to give 90 percent.
“You always want to win the last game.
“It will make the trip home a lot better. They won’t be relaxing just because they’ve won the tournament. It would be a disappointing way to end the competition if they were to lose this week. They’ll be fired up, hungry and aiming to destroy them.”
Spencer also told the website he would stay on in Johannesburg, taking up a sports promotional job and keeping his two young children in the country, but after being fired “via email” by the Lions, did not want to get back into coaching.
“They cut Mitch (John Mitchell) and I was next. It’s just one of those things. People get fired every day. It’s time to move on and try something different,” Spencer added.
“It would have been nice for the CEO or president to tell me face-to-face. It was a cowardly way to do it.”
“I just saw it as an opportunity to finally get out of rugby,” Spencer said.
“Coaching for me was never a long-term thing. It was something to do once I hung up the boots. It’s just probably happened a little bit sooner than I thought.”
Despite losing his job at the Lions, Spencer hopes they will become a force again.
“Speaking to the people in Joberg they can’t believe it. The richest city in South Africa isn’t going to have a team in Super Rugby,” he said.
“There’s a lot of disappointment around. It might make them wake up and change a few things so they can get back where they deserve to be.”
4 Oct 2012, 11:47 am
@flanka-128: it is certainly not flawless but it has its poistives or intended outcomes like when dagg moved from highlanders to crusaders where he is now a well rounded world class player. when that deal happened the NZRU moved colin slade to the highlanders so he can get first bite at flyhalf and not sit behind dan carter while he had been identified as his no.1 back up at the All Blacks…he got injured a lot and the plan didn’t come off but the intentions were well meant and for the benefit of the all blacks.
you are talking about supposed losses for the “crusaders midfield” and “hurricanes side” – those aren’t the all blacks!
most of the decisions are made for the benefit of the all blacks (bokke) and not the bulls, cheetahs or sharks…
4 Oct 2012, 11:48 am
@Transformation-130:
Ukuba bendingahambi ne nkosikazi bendizakuyinxiba. Qha ndicingela yena Xhego kweza njubaqa emva kwe-klipdrifts. Uyazi mos imeko yalama Dlagusha.
4 Oct 2012, 11:48 am
@Peter Mkata-134: seen it, izolo
4 Oct 2012, 11:48 am
@Peter Mkata-136: hahahaha uligwala
4 Oct 2012, 11:51 am
@flanka-131: imagine the consternation if SARU had to take players from the Bulls to augment the Kings in a “socialist” centralised contracting system
whooooooweeeeee
4 Oct 2012, 11:51 am
@Transformation-116: White was spot-on, the entire NZ rugby system is geared towards one team. It’s little wonder they go crazy when they lose.
4 Oct 2012, 11:56 am
@Big Hit-140:
and most of us think they are nuts enough when they win….
4 Oct 2012, 11:57 am
@Transformation-135: It doesnt take a centralized system to make some of those common sense moves. In a free market players are still entitled to work out for themselves if there’s a player ahead of them who might jeopardise their chances of gametime and hence bok selection. We dont need SARU to make those common sense decisions. And if a player is greedy/dumb enough to move to a bigger union for the money and see his gametime dwindle because of that (which we can name quite a few examples of) then thats their own idiotic choice.
Theres a very small number of arguments to support centralization…one or 2 odd cases like John Smit prop fiasco/Frans Steyn in his early years positional fiasco/Ruan Pienaar in his early years positional fiasco….and maybe the odd season like this year where we’re hit by a number of injuries, but by and large we don’tneed it. Sensationalism by JC.
4 Oct 2012, 11:57 am
Peter Mkata #134 – Carlos sounds very bitter!! However i hope he’s wrong, (merde) that is the last thing the Boks need right now, to get womped by the ABs!!
I can’t see it somehow, if we loose it will be closer than pops thinks!!
4 Oct 2012, 11:58 am
And nonsense for Meyer to use Sir Richie as an example when he’s virtually treated like the Prime Minister
4 Oct 2012, 11:59 am
@Transformation-116:
Thats one of your favourite cut and paste.
You’ve used it a few times.
4 Oct 2012, 12:00 pm
@Brads-51:
Chop..its history if it happened in the past..only difference is where YOU decide to draw the line..now please grow a brain before commenting again.
4 Oct 2012, 12:03 pm
Not entirely convinced of this being behind the ABs success.
ABs still have their fair share if injuries and from what I can see, only McCaw and Carter are really properly ‘managed’.
There may be the odd case of rotating and resting some players within the NZ franchises but not to the same degree as those 2 players.
This happens to a degree in SA as well, except maybe the Stormers. Little wonder the only Bok player with real fatigue related injuries comes from there. (Cough, Bekker.)
Besides, it could never work in SA scenario. Provincialism is too deeply rooted in the publics mindset.
Not saying that is a good or bad thing, just commenting.
4 Oct 2012, 12:04 pm
@rangerman-23: If you didn’t notice him on the field you can’t have been watching the game. He made 15 tackles vs 23 for your whole starting back row. He also made more metres than any other forward on the field – 41m vs 66m for your back row combined. Did he get man of the match?
Richie and Dan are in great form so we can’t drop them but they will break down by 2015 unfortunately. Unfortunately Hansen will be forced to give Cane and Cruden a lot of game time but it won’t be enough come RWC
4 Oct 2012, 12:05 pm
@poppa69-90:
You can go FK yourself shiiite for brains
4 Oct 2012, 12:10 pm
Gonzo McCaw always gets owned when he plays SA, great try he scored the last time he played at Soccer city, can you remember who owned him that night?
4 Oct 2012, 12:11 pm
@Golden Boy-149:
Pops and Brads…sorry for the posts..my idjit brother was on my laptop…my humblest apologies.
4 Oct 2012, 12:15 pm
golden boy. no wucking forries
4 Oct 2012, 12:19 pm
@race of tan-94: Last 12 head to head tests played in SA: NZ 6 wins, SA 6 wins. Last 12 tests played in NZ: NZ 10 wins, SA 2 wins.
4 Oct 2012, 12:19 pm
@TheTackler-153: And the point is?
4 Oct 2012, 12:22 pm
Also whats becoming plainly obvious through this whole Kings debacle is that SARU couldnt organise a pissup in a brewery.
Can you imagine them trying to dictate what players should go where and how they should be physically managed for optimal performance.
Farking ridonculous.
4 Oct 2012, 12:24 pm
@flanka-142:
The NZ model isn’t as rigid as you claim. The Franchises must declare a core squad of 26 players (I think it is), out of the 30 allowed. The NZRU can then allocate other players they’d like to see more of to a franchise that can use them. As for selecting franchise coaches, the NZRU sits on the franchise selection board and has the right of veto. SARU has exactly the same right but has never exercised it as far as I know.
We attempted to go a similar route as the NZRU initially, with the formation of SA Rugby (Pty) Ltd to control the S14 and Boks as a united entity. Morne dupe was supposed to be in charge but walked out citing that the PC still wanted to interfere.
4 Oct 2012, 12:30 pm
@Brads-34:
well,exactly…that was the point i was trying to make and hence my argument for a complete overhaul of our rugby playing format so franchises benifit and internationals still remain significant but the only way that will happen is for there to be fewer internationals/test matches.
4 Oct 2012, 12:32 pm
@TheTackler-153:
can’t help but think that those stats will change somewhat in the next 4 years.
Positively for SA
4 Oct 2012, 12:40 pm
Whats with these silly wide thinking articles???
Stick to the game at hand
4 Oct 2012, 12:44 pm
@greatest13gerber-159:
Nothing would give me greater pleasure greatest:
According to rugby365:
Rookie flyhalf Johan Goosen will be South Africa’s first-choice goal-kicker against New Zealand in Soweto on Saturday.
The Springbok team management confirmed on Thursday that Goosen had “passed his fitness test” and will be fine to take kicks at goal.
Bok coach Heyneke Meyer delayed the decision on who would be his first-choice goal-kicker, after a heel injury hampered Goosen in the 31-8 win over Australia last week – which saw the kicking duties being handed to scrumhalf Ruan Pienaar after two failed attempts by the No.10.
However, Goosen came through his kicking test on Wednesday afternoon with flying colours and on Thursday was cleared to resume the kicking duties – both at goal and out of hand.
“He is fine,” the Bok management said.
Meyer said Wednesday that he expects nothing less than an 80 percent strike rate against the All Blacks in Soweto on Saturday.
4 Oct 2012, 12:47 pm
If Goosen can nail anywhere above 70% of his kicks we will be in with a shout on Saturday I reckon.
We miss kicks like in Dunedin or at Loftus and we in trouble.
4 Oct 2012, 12:50 pm
@Blokkies-161:
We will win this test because this is the best available Bok team, particularly at 10.
We only lose tests when coaches are arrogant and do not pick the best available Bok team or, at the very minimum, players on form.
4 Oct 2012, 12:53 pm
In fact, I believe that all tests ever lost by the Boks was because of poor selection and player management.
As a whole, our best 22 players have generally been superior to any 22 of another country.
4 Oct 2012, 12:56 pm
@willievz-162: I hope so Willie.
2 other HUGE motivating factors for us will be
1) the fact that they beat us last time in Soweto and the Bokke really don’t want to get beat twice in a row at the only 2 times we have played there, and
2) We really, really don’t want them to get the records for 17 consecutive tests. If they beat us on Saturday their next few games will be on end of year tour where they tend to halways win, so IMO we are the only ones who can stop them achieving that record…..
Bokke by 4
4 Oct 2012, 12:57 pm
@willievz-163: sorry should read “all tests ever lost by Heyneke’s Boks”
4 Oct 2012, 12:57 pm
Goosen will be converting more than 90% of his kicks in the opposition’s half this saturday and in his overall career. The kicks he takes from his own half will bring that percentage down. Some bloggers commented this week that we cannot afford a running flyhalf that cannot kick. Goosen’s biggest advantage is his pinpoint goalkicking.
4 Oct 2012, 12:59 pm
@willievz-163: Bullshit. In terms of talent, we only caught up to the All Blacks recently, but we are still behind them. You are thinking playstation rugby and the real world is a whole different story.
4 Oct 2012, 12:59 pm
@Blokkies-164:
We are a better team than the ABs.
We picked the right team.
We will win.
4 Oct 2012, 13:01 pm
@Horings-167: Let me put it to you this way.
How many All Blacks would make a full strength Bok side?
Possibly only
McCaw
Reid (maybe, a very big maybe)
Carter
Dagg
That’s it.
4 Oct 2012, 13:02 pm
I agree that the quality of depth in NZ is unmatched, but in terms of a matchday 22 we should always have had the upper hand.
4 Oct 2012, 13:10 pm
I just hope that Goosen gets rid of jitters and gains confidence early. Its vital that he stamps his authority on the game.
The way we have been playing since Henry Honniball days is with a scrumhalf (think Joost and FdP) who make the decisions. This is purely because we have not had a decent flyhalf who can take control.
The game plan can be much better controlled and implemented with a talented general at 10 than a talented general at 9.
4 Oct 2012, 13:11 pm
@willievz-169: How do you define full strength, because Jaque Fourie is possibly better than Conrad Smith and FdP is better than Aaron Smith, Guthro is better than Woodcock, but if those players are not available then Conrad, Aaron and Woodcock is better than our best. Apart from that I would rather pick Whitelock than Bekker and Franks than JdP.
4 Oct 2012, 13:13 pm
@Horings-167: You mean the real world where we had 3 teams in the S15 playoffs and the Kiwis had 1??????
Fair enough they ended up winning the comp but it looks like our depth is not too bad.
4 Oct 2012, 13:17 pm
@Horings-172:
Aaron Smith? Please. He would not be the first choice 9 at any S15 franchise in SA, bar the Stormers perhaps.
I don’t think Whitelock is better than Bekker, he is about par with J.Kruger.
Forgot about Franks, I would pick him ahead of Jannie, so that makes it 5 ABs in a starting team of 15.
4 Oct 2012, 13:20 pm
@willievz-169: I love the patriotism but that’s a hellavu stretch. Reid is the best no8 in the world and would make our side without breaking a sweat. What about Smith and Savea? Or any number of NZ wings for that matter.
4 Oct 2012, 13:23 pm
Stupid article and question asking ‘WHY CANT SA DO THIS?”
Answer is simple, in order for this to happen, you need administrators that are truely focused on the wellbieng of the players & the Springboks, In RSA, this is not the case.
1) SARFU want the players contracted to the regions so that they are able to pay them less on a BOK contract, save money, and ensure that they have bigger bonuses.
2) SARFU make sure that the players are going to be played into the ground in Super Rugby as they introduce a ludicrous relegation system basically ensuring that the Boks will be hammered in the super season as the bottom 3 teams try avoid the RSA wooden spoon.
3) Provincial outfits are not and have never been structured to be aligned to Sarfu. They do not follow a national plan, do not follow a national development plan for under developed regions, and are not following a national plan for player development. If they did, we would have easy trade across the franchises to ensure that the top 75 players in the country are playing Super Rugby, but like the Lions/Kings fiasco that we currently have,
In short, SARFU are not running rugby in RSA, the provinces are, and the reason is because SARFU are incapable of putting a plan together that the unions will buy into that benefits rugby, their plans only benefit the administrators, their international travel schedule, SANZAR and of course – their individual bonus potential.
TIA!
4 Oct 2012, 13:24 pm
@Skeppie-175: Would you honestly pick Savea ahead of Habana or JPP?
Smith is a worthy debate. Very good player but not sure if he is better than the SA options at 13.
Reid is a very good player but best 8 in the world is a matter of opinion (Parisse and Harinordoquy will have something to say about that).
4 Oct 2012, 13:27 pm
@willievz-174: That is 5 players that is definitely better than ours. I do not think there is one of our players that is definitely better than theirs. Retallick was one of the standout players in the super competition and Smith is one of the All Blacks standout players this year. There is not a weakness in their side and if they lose it will be all because of emotion and Soccer City.
@Blokkies-173: They had 2 teams. Their 2nd best team smashing the Bulls and not one of their teams were worse than the Lions. NZ teams had more wins overall.
4 Oct 2012, 13:30 pm
@willievz-177: Good points…..maybe our style of play has prejudiced our wingers but either way it would be a close call between JPP/Habana and Savea/Jane. Fair point on the no8′s but whatever the world standing he is certainly better than Spies and you cannot put Vermeulen ahead of him at this stage (although that will hopefulyl change in the year(s) to some). Conrad Smith would easily make our side as would Franks at 3 (as you mentioned). Woodcock/Beast would be very close. Mealamu over Strauss but not when Bissie is back. Aaron Smith/Pienaar would also be close.
4 Oct 2012, 13:37 pm
@Horings-178: @Skeppie-179: Fair enough gents.
I will pick a combined team – feel free to play around with it or to add to the discussion
Beast
Bismarck
Franks
Etzebeth
Bekker
McCaw
Alberts
Reid
Hougaard
Carter
F.Steyn
Habana
Smith or Fourie
JPP
Dagg
I am willing to play Smith ahead of Fourie to illustrate my point. That makes it 6 ABs in a starting team of 15.
One can now draw all sorts of conclusions from this, or start a debate regarding various points.
One point is that our Bok team should always be competitive against the top tier nations, and that we do not have to stand back for any team.
Another point is that perhaps we lack in other elements such as coaching (both style and philosophy, but also the fact that we are not grooming successors) and contracting of player resources.
4 Oct 2012, 13:38 pm
@John Galt-155: with the amateur structure of the Presidents Council having to ratify alles – the politics of lobbying and interests that f.uck up SA Rugby begin here! – they wouldn’t be able to make ANY decisions anyway!
4 Oct 2012, 13:39 pm
Most relevant article posted on Keo in a long time.
SA aren’t alone in not prioritising the Boks. England, France and Australia have a similar provincial/club pull on players leading to below strength test teams.
It’s player management which maintains NZ’s consistency. It’s not rocket-science, it’s easier to get results with your best team on the field.
4 Oct 2012, 13:40 pm
@willievz-180: On that point we are agreed….we have all the depth and talent in the world but the NZ’s and Aussies have far better structures, coaching etc.
4 Oct 2012, 13:42 pm
@Jeraldjay-145: the issue always comes up…
4 Oct 2012, 13:44 pm
@Transformation-184:
A bit like the Spear.
4 Oct 2012, 13:47 pm
gees, Willie, such rancid bait and the only bites were from Saffas?
4 Oct 2012, 13:52 pm
@poppa69-186: Damn.
You are becoming too smart for me.
Not biting this time
4 Oct 2012, 13:54 pm
@Horings-178: Damn you right about them having 2 teams, sorrie man Maths was never my strong point….
4 Oct 2012, 14:02 pm
@willievz-180: The crucial position in that team, and the one that has so often been the difference between us winning and losing, is Flyhalf. The Kiwis have consistently had a better flyhalf than us for over 10 years now.
And I am not talking about a flyhalf who can kick for poles, I am talking about a General who can dictate play.
When we have a no.10 that can offer even 60% of what Carter does in terms of controlling the game then we will start beating the All Blacks more regularly. Our forwards have always been able to live with the Kiwis (even without a fetcher at times)
Thats why I really hope the Goose reaches his potential.
4 Oct 2012, 14:02 pm
Boring day round here. Everyone talking rugby for a change? Where have all the good men gone and where are all the gods?
Bakkies, ST BURP, The fellow with the extra ball…..?
4 Oct 2012, 14:03 pm
@56 – As for living in the past, thought you might enjoy this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3vgdfKg3bY
4 Oct 2012, 14:06 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-190: lot’s of new braggadocious kiwis though…it’s like someone opened a gate
4 Oct 2012, 14:07 pm
@willievz-187:
Fark Willie.
For a second I thought you were drinking during your lunch break.
4 Oct 2012, 14:08 pm
@Blokkies-160:
Goosen will come right . A real Honiball / Hennie le Roux clone but superior placekicker.
Lets bend these blacks and end their win streak
4 Oct 2012, 14:10 pm
Willie, Willie Willie.
Frans steyn over Nonu ? puh lease, put down the pipe and slowly back the fck away.. Frans distribution is woeful, any coincidence the boks scored more tries with him out injured then in the previous games where he has played?
He is as over rated as JDP and the beast…
4 Oct 2012, 14:12 pm
@poppa69-195: tl tl tl
4 Oct 2012, 14:13 pm
@Jeraldjay-193:
Just looking to engage the sheepshaggers in some conversation, it’s a favourite hobby of mine 
@poppa69-195: Apart from Nonu over F.Steyn (which is a reasonable call), which other Kiwis would make a Bok side?
Looking forward (no pun intended) to your picks
4 Oct 2012, 14:13 pm
Elgar Watts signs for the Cheetahs…
4 Oct 2012, 14:15 pm
@willievz-163:
Willie – take your hand off your willy, NOW!
4 Oct 2012, 14:15 pm
@poppa69-195:
Pops, Frans is more valuable in terms of place kicking and his a better defender than Nonu.
Nonu’s tactical kicking is non existent which balances out his superiority with ball in hand.
4 Oct 2012, 14:16 pm
@Transformation-192:
Poeps is going to lose his mantle at this rate.
He is looking very tame.
Like Jack Nicholson in One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest after they plugged him into the light socked.
4 Oct 2012, 14:18 pm
socked!
vork.
4 Oct 2012, 14:18 pm
@willievz-197: I would take Woodcock over Beast, Retallick/Etzebeth is pretty much a muchness, did they compete against each other in JWCs? dont know thats why I ask… both young and am watching with keen interest how they progress.. Smith imo is miles better at scrummy then Hooha, his pass is a thing of beauty, still has to work on his kicking in general play, but has a running game to compliment his pass.. will only get better with more game time, still think he outdoes Hougie though.
those would be my main areas of contention. perhaps Jane on the wing as well, though both habs and JPP are quality..
4 Oct 2012, 14:21 pm
@Jeraldjay-200: if you have Carter in the team, why do you need frans for his place kicking? for the 50/50 shots from over halfway? no thanks, Id rather have a distributing 2nd 5/8th, guess it heads back to the differing philosphies, ABs would rather score points in increments of 5..
4 Oct 2012, 14:23 pm
@Skeppie-179:
Conrad Smith is too small to be selected.
4 Oct 2012, 14:27 pm
@poppa69-204:
Frans is still young. His had a flyhalf that has been deep in pocket for most of his games at 12.
But when Nonu’s isolated in his own half he is a liability.
4 Oct 2012, 14:28 pm
@Transformation-192: unfortunately the Argies imploded the containment unit releasing an army of NZ ghouls onto the blogs. I think it’s about time for Egon De Villiers and Winston Habana to kick the slime back where it belongs this weekend.
4 Oct 2012, 14:30 pm
@Jeraldjay-206: perhaps, I am not a fan of Frans personally… think his reputation far exceeds his worth. I will save judgement until he has played a few more games outside the Goose, but it will take some convincing.
4 Oct 2012, 14:32 pm
I think what Pops is saying is that there will be more Bokke than Kiwis in a combined team
4 Oct 2012, 14:32 pm
@Big Hit-207: oh look, keos own british sycophant is here, how nice
4 Oct 2012, 14:33 pm
@willievz-209: come back to me when your maths has improved.. swapping beast for Woodcock, Retallick for Elisebeth and Smith for Hooha would make that nine kiwis Willie..
4 Oct 2012, 14:33 pm
with Wonderkind Goosen there we are favourites to beat the Cannibals …
4 Oct 2012, 14:35 pm
@poppa69-208:
His reputation does to a certain extend exceed his worth cause the times he has been outstanding at 12 has been against minnows in RWC’s.
4 Oct 2012, 14:36 pm
@poppa69-211: Ok, get you.
I still only pick 4 Kiwis in my starting XV.
This coming weekend will prove why.
4 Oct 2012, 14:37 pm
@Jeraldjay-213: it’s not like he’s ever kicked SA to a win over NZ in NZ is it? or dropped two goals to beat Australia, or rescued SA from a first ever defeat against Argentina
just the minnows
4 Oct 2012, 14:37 pm
Boks out injured :
Bismarck
Juan Smith
Burger
JPP (on his way back)
Get Guthro, J Fourie & Bakkies back and no one will beat us
4 world class players ….. you see how k@k NZ are without McCaw & Carter …
4 Oct 2012, 14:37 pm
@Big Hit-215: I’d pick Frans over Dagg at 15 too…
4 Oct 2012, 14:38 pm
fair enough Willie. I just struggle with your logic. your combined team would contain more players from a team that has won four of its last 8 games, then players from a team that has won 8 from 8.
are you hoping to teach them BMT
4 Oct 2012, 14:41 pm
@Big Hit-207:
that won’t go down well 007.
4 Oct 2012, 14:41 pm
@poppa69-218: That is my whole point.
Our players are, well, better.
If we can improve our coaching, structures and administration, we should be on top of the world.
Consistently so.
4 Oct 2012, 14:44 pm
so now its coaching Willie.
those goalposts are swaying In the breeze. heard it all before, thi our players are so much better. but results is the only true measuring stick, and you guys fall behind in that respect.
until the results change it is just opinion and hot air mate.
4 Oct 2012, 14:44 pm
@Big Hit-215:
He played at fullback in those games. I’m talking about the games he has played at 12.
Jacque Fourie and JDV were the centres in those games.
4 Oct 2012, 14:46 pm
@poppa69-221:
For starters, I’d love for our schoolboys to play size against size rather than age against age.
Your coaching philosophy is spot-on.
4 Oct 2012, 14:54 pm
@willievz-223: but but but, what about the strengths of SA rugby, surely you dont want to digress from those?
4 Oct 2012, 14:54 pm
@Jeraldjay-222: he won a WC at 12 and was going well in the last WC until his injury, strong June series too
4 Oct 2012, 14:56 pm
@Big Hit-225: dont bother bud.
frans is overrated by the likes of you, me and the international market
4 Oct 2012, 14:57 pm
@willievz-223:
Indeed, I remember playing rugby against guys who shaved. This was when I was in primary school.
4 Oct 2012, 14:59 pm
@Jeraldjay-222: frans is not a fullback, never was a fullback and hopefully will not be a fullback again.
he is a 12.
his defense and kicking game make him the perfect midfielder able to take pressure off his flyhalf and his ability to pass both ways and kick with both feet are completely ignored by his detractors.
luckily meyer isnt blind.
4 Oct 2012, 15:00 pm
“Bebefits of Kiwi System”
What system?
Naturalising PIs Rugby players?
4 Oct 2012, 15:02 pm
i actually thought JDV had an ok game vs the aussies.
nothing outstanding mind you given the quality of the ball we were enjoying and a flyhalf that was not sitting in the pocket of the pocket.
4 Oct 2012, 15:02 pm
@WP-Forever-227: \
you always were a late developer.
4 Oct 2012, 15:04 pm
@Big Hit-225:
Don’t get me wrong I rate Frans. He will always be my 1st choice inside centre ’cause his the best we have available in that position.
But in all honesty I have only started rating him “highly” at inside centre after RWC 2011 after great performances against minnows.
As yet, he has not had an outstanding performance at INSIDE CENTRE against the big boys
4 Oct 2012, 15:05 pm
@Hondo-229: like Mealamu who was born in Torkoroa NZ? that sort of “naturalising” ?
4 Oct 2012, 15:06 pm
@rangerman-230: jdv had an outstanding game in our quarterfinal exit game including the linebreak he made to put lambie through which was judged to be forward…
4 Oct 2012, 15:12 pm
@willievz, so if we are playing fantasy football, I’ll see your bakkies, fdp and guthro and raise you with my sbw, kaino, hayman, thorn and evans. BOOM!
Honestly, anyone would think the boks are the only team in the world to suffer injuries and to loses players overseas.
4 Oct 2012, 15:14 pm
@corporal punishment-235: We are also the only team in the world who have to deal with cheating refs, a corrupt SANZAR and huge amounts of travel. It’s true – ask Bakkies. I am learning from the master
4 Oct 2012, 15:16 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-236: yes, I wonder what the travel afficionado’s will have to say should the ABs get up and win this weekend.. will that finally bury the myth?
4 Oct 2012, 15:18 pm
@Transformation-234: ja he was good.
had an argument the other day about forward passes vs momentum and its actually interesting to realise how many people have no clue of basic physics.
the pass was judged forward simply because the tackler stopped JDV dead in his tracks.
if he hadnt been stopped dead, the try would have been given and we would have won the wc (obviously).
i demand a 500 page inquisition immediately!
4 Oct 2012, 15:18 pm
29.viewer:
3 Oct 2012, 13:43 pm
Tacitus = deluded bigot
60.STBUR:
3 Oct 2012, 14:22 pm
@viewer-29:
viewer = goffel racist
4 Oct 2012, 15:19 pm
@The sharks 236: silly of me to forget! The AB’s used to have the excuse of the bumbling NZRU to fall back on, but since the clear out post losing the 2003 hosting rights, the have actually been quite good. By rugby administration standards!!
4 Oct 2012, 15:20 pm
@poppa69-237: no it wont.
not until the abs play in perth, mendoza and then south africa on consecutive weekends.
but we all know that wont happen because there might be too much squealing from the kiwi “hardmen”
4 Oct 2012, 15:21 pm
@Hondo-229: Naturalizing PI-born players? Sheesh, that’s another X-files level.
Tell us how many PI-born and naturalized are in the current Blacks squad of 28 players. 5? 10? 15? 20?
ZERO.
Seriously, better stick to bleating about the refs.
4 Oct 2012, 15:21 pm
@Jeraldjay-239: ah, south africa.
what a place!
4 Oct 2012, 15:23 pm
@poppa 239: it will be a huge achievement if the ABs get up and win this weekend. Winning on the road in SA is blardy hard; the bok team is pretty good and highly motivated; and we already have the series sewn up.
Man I will be happy if we do it tho – 6 out of 6 in the inaugural RC will be quite a record – could be a decade before that was repeated.
Fingers and toes crossed.
4 Oct 2012, 15:24 pm
@Nils-242: wow nils, you sound like a maori activist.
latvia eh?
4 Oct 2012, 15:25 pm
@rangerman-243:
Ranger that post was a clue as to why I think that Tac’s is STBUR.
4 Oct 2012, 15:27 pm
@Jeraldjay-246: nah thats not Tac bud.
Tac and STBUR are two different people imo.
could be wrong.
out for now bud.
4 Oct 2012, 15:27 pm
@Jeraldjay-239:
Maybe he meant to type knoffel.
4 Oct 2012, 15:28 pm
@rangerman-238: man, we could equate that sdame argument to many of the AB passes are always forward brigade… strange how its relevant only when it suits your argument..
and face it, travelling from a first world country to a third world country is invariably harder then the reverse , one gets used to having the basic amenities like running water and stuff…. I know its a luxury for your mob when they get to our country
4 Oct 2012, 15:30 pm
@rangerman-245: No, mate, just slightly pissed off. We all can complain about many things or be heavily biased or have a dissenting opionion, it’s fine, no problems really. Just keep it at least somhow related to reality.
4 Oct 2012, 15:31 pm
@poppa69-249: haha, in the past our squads had a lot of farmers in them but as our country has urbanised they find it harder and harder to adapt to being dumped in the middle of the worlds biggest sheep farm.
4 Oct 2012, 15:32 pm
@poppa69-237: I also used to whinge a little about everything the Boks were supposedly up against
; But being a long suffering WP/Stormers groupie has sorted me out.
There are no valid excuses for dismal performances – the END.
You win or you lose – the END.
You often aren’t as good as what you think you are – the END.
Other teams really do just pitch up and play better – the END.
A bit of luck one game, means some bad luck in another game – the END.
Sound the harps, I’m about to cry.
4 Oct 2012, 15:32 pm
@rangerman-251:
Ouch!
4 Oct 2012, 15:32 pm
@poppa69-249:
we aren’t talking about the ballsacks here.
their playbook has been lifted directly from the Dallas Cowboys.
@Jeraldjay-246:
that’s not his vibe.
in an ideal world people like stbur hondo viewer garf and capo would be brothers.
perhaps they are.
4 Oct 2012, 15:35 pm
@gunther-254:
From different mothers, though.
4 Oct 2012, 15:40 pm
@WP-Forever-255:
Indeed and my buddy too much rugby would be the ginger step child.
We could start a reality tv show.
Keeping up with the Knoffelhuisens.
Hang on I’ve got Ryan Seacrest on the other line.
4 Oct 2012, 15:42 pm
@gunther-256:
I somehow see a spot in that lineup being available for Casper de Vries.
4 Oct 2012, 15:44 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-252: shame more of your supporters couldnt grasp that simple concept … if yioure ever in Sydney, my shout..
same for you ranger, oh thats right, us sheepshaggers scare you too much
4 Oct 2012, 15:48 pm
@Brads-57: LOL.WERE YOU WATCHING THE SAME INCIDENT.
4 Oct 2012, 15:51 pm
@WP-Forever-257:
Bruce Knoffelhuisen- South African Olympic Decathlon Gold Medallist 1976.
4 Oct 2012, 15:52 pm
@rangerman-77: MACgUYVER
loioks like he has false fangs.
4 Oct 2012, 15:56 pm
@poppa69-97: Of course.But we exclude
Dean Greyling from that population..
4 Oct 2012, 16:01 pm
@poppa69-114: Jethro Tull played
well against OZ.
Can I suggest that we abandon this topic.And we might not
talk of your naked winger in a bar.@NZINCHINA-150:
4 Oct 2012, 16:04 pm
@ryecatcher-263:
bungle in the jungle? well, thats alright by me
4 Oct 2012, 16:13 pm
@WP-Forever-253: hehehe
@poppa69-258: you shag sheep?
thats disgusting but recognising you have a problem is the first step to rectifying it i suppose
4 Oct 2012, 16:14 pm
@ryecatcher-261: looks like he has a false brain to me.
in fact his head could be used as a panic room.
4 Oct 2012, 16:17 pm
@poppa69-264: how did this sheepshagging nonsense start, any idea?
4 Oct 2012, 16:18 pm
@poppa69-258:
the rest of pedigree’s supporters have barricaded themselves in an underground bunker complex somewhere in the karoo.
drinking koolaid martinis.
4 Oct 2012, 16:19 pm
@Transformation-267: Until you’ve lived on an island you have no right to judge anyone.
4 Oct 2012, 16:19 pm
@Transformation-267:
Well it’s an island.
So they were in trouble from the get go.
4 Oct 2012, 16:21 pm
@Transformation-267: i am guessing a kiwi got lonely one night.
or very drunk.
anyway, its sounds like pops is going to get it sorted out
4 Oct 2012, 16:22 pm
@Transformation-267: like a blind castrated springbokke, I have no fcken idea how it started Trans
maybe because there is something like 60 million in the country, who knows?
@gunther-268: reference is lost on me, did WP lose or something?
4 Oct 2012, 16:37 pm
@rangerman-266: LOL Somebody
asked about what type of occupations our players had.
I think that Dean is a redeyed abbatoir slaughterer. Standing in a pool of blood.S hit,he embarassed me.
4 Oct 2012, 16:42 pm
@rangerman-265: You should see some of those sheep.Attractive as hell.And supply exceeds demand.
4 Oct 2012, 16:50 pm
@ryecatcher-274: Buyers market.
4 Oct 2012, 16:54 pm
apparently us kiwis have the problem, yet saffas are the only ones talking about attractive sheep
4 Oct 2012, 16:56 pm
@poppa69-276: Sharks supporters mostly.
4 Oct 2012, 16:56 pm
@poppa69-276: you brought it up buddy.
missing home?
4 Oct 2012, 16:56 pm
@poppa69-272:
Mad Dog is nuttier than one of Elvis Presley’s sarmies.
She is tuning into a David icke podcast as we speak.
4 Oct 2012, 16:58 pm
@stormersboy-277:
ja ja why bother sheep if you have hairdressers right stormerfan?
4 Oct 2012, 17:06 pm
@rangerman-280:
Leave Grantie out of this.
4 Oct 2012, 17:08 pm
@ryecatcher-273: Sorry Dean.Not nice
4 Oct 2012, 17:09 pm
@gunther-281:
woof will be here shortly to tell you grant does his own hair
4 Oct 2012, 17:11 pm
@ryecatcher-282: lol
4 Oct 2012, 17:12 pm
@poppa69-276: familiarity breeds contempt?
i don’t know
4 Oct 2012, 17:15 pm
@rangerman-283: No, he sends it away to be done.
4 Oct 2012, 17:20 pm
@rangerman-278: actually flying back in the morning ranger..
4 Oct 2012, 17:22 pm
@stormersboy-277:
4 Oct 2012, 17:29 pm
What the **** is JC smoking?
It is blindingly clear that NZ rugby players are just naturally superior athletes compared to South Africa’s soft *****.
4 Oct 2012, 17:33 pm
@corporal punishment-235: Who is Evans?
The guy who could not kick a drop goal in 2007?
BOOM yourself
4 Oct 2012, 17:51 pm
@gunther-279: Play nice Gunther. I’m a little eccentric at worst……
4 Oct 2012, 17:52 pm
Who’s Rettalik?
Some new drug?
4 Oct 2012, 18:04 pm
@PissAnt-289:
surprised you weren’t all over this one much earlier PA
4 Oct 2012, 18:12 pm
@Dawn-292: Chiefs lock Dawn..
Brodie Retallick
Date of birth (1991-05-31) 31 May 1991 (age 21)
Place of birth New Zealand
Height 2.04 m (6 ft 8 1?2 in)
Weight 121 kg (19 st 1 lb)
@willievz-290: hard to kick a drop goal when youre on the sidelines injured Willie..
4 Oct 2012, 18:16 pm
This article makes sense right now but we just happen to be lucky right now. This is off the top of my head but in the last ~18 months, these guys have had fairly serious injuries. Probably there are others i don’t remember
Faumuina, Woodcock (I think he was out quite a while)
Boric, Williams
Kaino, McCaw, Read
Weepu, Carter, Cruden, C. Smith
Kahui, Dagg, Mils
The fact we only have a few of the above out now is just good luck. Same as the Reds/wallabies were damn lucky Cooper and Genia weren’t injured last year
4 Oct 2012, 18:24 pm
@rangerman-280: My wife does my hair.
Waxing too.
backcrackandsac.
4 Oct 2012, 18:25 pm
@PissAnt-289: I like the “edgier” pissant.
Kind of like, Darth Vader meets Yoda.
4 Oct 2012, 18:26 pm
@gunther-279: Ask Grant about Icke.
Loves the guy.
4 Oct 2012, 18:26 pm
And…..
4 Oct 2012, 18:27 pm
THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!!
4 Oct 2012, 18:32 pm
@stormersboy-296: disturbing imagery
4 Oct 2012, 18:35 pm
And finally.At the NZ refs presentation,Bryce was awarded the Golden
Fleece.Good night all
4 Oct 2012, 18:37 pm
@ryecatcher-301: This will help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ7Ue5emo6I
4 Oct 2012, 18:39 pm
@ryecatcher-302: what? no gold watch, my how standards have slipped since the days of Louis..
4 Oct 2012, 18:40 pm
@gonzo-295: lol ‘last 18 months’, the Wallabies have that many out right now and all at the same time.
4 Oct 2012, 18:40 pm
@PissAnt-289:
> It is blindingly clear that NZ rugby players are just naturally superior athletes
No we have good athletes as well
Spies is probably the best athlete in the Championship and the sh-ittiest rugbyplayer too
> compared to South Africa’s soft *****.
I’ve watched one of the domestic New Zealand games, some of the guys still have to work for a living AND play rugby for the love of it
We pile the money on any youngster with an indication of potential and can’t stop telling them they’re going to be the next best thing, giving them an exagerated opinion of themselves an making them unpleasant little ***** and all round “windgatte”
Like Pollard, will he ever live up to the expectations?
Hougie is a textbook example, FdP annointed him as the next best thing.
Has he ever delivered a memorable game on scrumhalf?
He’s got the money, girls, cars, glamour and huge sponsorship contracts with hair and beauty product companies and the wintie attitude to boot
But is he a test scrumhalf or has he ever delivered?
4 Oct 2012, 18:42 pm
@Big Hit-293:
Unfortunately I was busy – and it seems the moment has passed
4 Oct 2012, 18:50 pm
@victoriabok-306:
NZ has the same amount of tier 1 (pro) rugby players SA has. You might be shocked but most players in SA playing in Currie Cup rugby (including the 1st division sides) are also only semi-pro.
Why do I include our 1st division teams? Well NZ plays all 14 their unions in their ITM cup unlike SA where we split them between the haves, and have nots.
My first post was sarcastic.
Simple fact is, NZ rugby union contracts their top players as the player’s primary contract – meaning they call the shots, and they manage the player and control’s his conditioning (not only in games played).
In SA the franchises hold the primary contracts, they call the shots, and they don’t give a **** about Bok rugby.
4 Oct 2012, 18:54 pm
@PissAnt-308:
> My first post was sarcastic.
I know, I’m just as pissed at these overpaid gym monsters turning into ouchee gym bunnies when they get onto the pitch
And they never deliver
4 Oct 2012, 18:57 pm
@victoriabok-309:
I agree to an extend bud, our youngsters almost never goes through a proper apprenticeship anymore and I am of the belief it needs to start at school level and U/19, U/20 level but specifically schools.
But that’s a whole other topic about 16, 17 and 18-year olds being offered union contracts…
4 Oct 2012, 19:14 pm
@victoriabok-306: 100%in agreement with you. People like JaN ELLIS from the plaas in SWA.
Frik–Well I am not sure.
Piet Greyling.Ended up working for SAB
4 Oct 2012, 19:17 pm
@PissAnt-308:
> In SA the franchises hold the primary contracts, they call the shots, and they don’t give a **** about Bok rugby
Like my Bulls warehousing players and then not playing them (bad) or giving them to never sufficiently accursed Pine to coach (worse)
If we had any resemblance of management at SARU, they would have a sunset clause on all player contracts and adopt a New Zealand contract model as well as a draft system* for young players
*- Not a bad idea, after all the last team on the CC log get the fitrst pick, with Pine in charge we’re bound to get the best drafts
4 Oct 2012, 19:32 pm
@ryecatcher-311:
Frik farmed in the Kalahari
Jan Ellis lives near Rayton, he operates an auction*
*-Sounds k@k in English, hy het ‘n vendusie en ‘n garage en hy’s die afslaer ook, een dag was daar ‘n kalvier op die vendusie en die ouens sê: “Jan spee bietjie iets” en die man speel die klavier met daai groot hande wat ‘n rugbybal in sy lengte kon vashou)
Hulle eht hom een Sondagaand beroof by sy garage en hom met ‘n AK geskiet maar die sterk man het op ‘n manier by hulp uitgekom en dit oorleef
4 Oct 2012, 19:38 pm
@victoriabok-309:
Sarcastic?
i think you had it right. New Zealand has the best genetic mix for rugby in the world namely the combination of the European influence, the size and warrior like attitude of the Maori and the speed and power of the Polynesian islanders.
I cannot think of one reason why they won’t (with the occasional hickup) dominate rugby for a long time (like for ever) just like they have been doing for the last 20 years or so. That is unless they get bored of it.
4 Oct 2012, 19:40 pm
@victoriabok-313: lovely story
4 Oct 2012, 19:42 pm
@PissAnt-310:
The death of club rugby.
4 Oct 2012, 19:43 pm
@victoriabok-313:
Frik started off as a PF member in the army. I think he was a major or something. Louis Moolman was als PF- the biggest captain I have ever seen.
HO de Villiers was an insurance salesman for Old Mutual. And Dawie de Villiers was a dominee in he NG church before he bacame a politician. Phd in Theology.
4 Oct 2012, 19:46 pm
@Robzim-317:
HO has done very nicely.
Lovely house in Steenberg.
4 Oct 2012, 19:47 pm
@stormersboy-298:
That’s probably the most disturbing comment I have read here.
Even worse than your manscaping.
4 Oct 2012, 19:50 pm
@Robzim-314:
We’re not exactly chopped liver either
Guys like Bakkies, Victor, Bismarck, Frans Steyn, Juan and Schalk and others on their prime would have made any squad in the world
Our windgatgeit and know-all attitude plus the poor skills training puts our players on the back foot
Add to it the non-existant leadership and pi-ss poor management by SARU and we’d never be on the same page as any team, not even talking about the All Blacks
4 Oct 2012, 19:53 pm
@Robzim-317:
And Dawie, as a government minister just before the devasted District 6 was declared multi racial, invested in a development and purchased property there, along with a number of Nat politicians.
I’ve seen the deeds of sale.
4 Oct 2012, 19:53 pm
@gunther-319:
Reptile in a speedo or a reptile inside his speedo?
4 Oct 2012, 19:56 pm
@gunther-318:
I am not surprised – apparently he has the gift of the gab and a very pleasant easy going personality- that, together with the fact that he was a famous bok, did not do him any harm in selling insurance I guess.
4 Oct 2012, 19:59 pm
@Robzim-317:
> Frik started off as a PF member in the army. I think he was a major or something
My dad said “Hy was ‘n korporaal, die luiste stoorman ooit, en toe hy begin om vir Noord Transvaal the speel het hulle hom ‘n Majoor gemaak”
4 Oct 2012, 20:00 pm
I would never shave a man’s buttcheek crack nor anything else
4 Oct 2012, 20:04 pm
@David-321:
Sorry, it was declared a white area.
4 Oct 2012, 20:08 pm
@Dawn-325:
Scared of dingleberries?
4 Oct 2012, 20:10 pm
@victoriabok-324:
As ‘n rugbyspeler was hy ook lui- ek was op laerskool toe ek hom eenkeer sien speel het vir N TVL teen SWD- hy het net rondgestap op die veld en niksdoen en toe skielik so 5 minute voor die einde die bal gegryp in sy eie 25 en los deur gehardloop- hy kon swenk soos danie gerber en was byna so vinnig soos bryan habana- nie sleg vir ‘n slot nie
4 Oct 2012, 20:10 pm
@gunther-318:
HO’s son M!chael was a very good batsmen for UCT.
Wonder what ever happened to h!m. Should have played prov!nc!al cr!cket.
4 Oct 2012, 20:13 pm
@Jeraldjay-329:
I was at varsity with him.
He’s in finance.
A terrific sportsman.
4 Oct 2012, 20:15 pm
@Robzim-328:
Hulle sê hy was lief om weg te raak gedurende Springbok oefeninge en op die duiksakke te lê en slaap
Eenmaal ‘n Lugmag stoorman altyd ‘n stoorman?
4 Oct 2012, 20:19 pm
@Dawn-325:
It’s waxing not shaving.
And I outsource the sac bit.
Too big for domestic equipment.
4 Oct 2012, 20:20 pm
I remember Piet Greyling being interviewed on Boots n All and was asked by Darren Scott: ” So how’s it going?” Piet’s reply ” Ag, I’ve got a job”.
To which his colleagues p1ssed themselves when he got to work the next morning.
He owned the company. And has retired extremely successfully.
4 Oct 2012, 20:21 pm
@gunther-330:
UCT had a top order from hell.
Sven Koen!g, Br!an Baguley, M!chael De V!ll!ers.
The!r bowlers were Steph Bullbr!ng, Paul Strang and Cedr!c Engl!sh.
4 Oct 2012, 20:22 pm
@victoriabok-327: more like the grapes of wrath
4 Oct 2012, 20:25 pm
@poppa69-335:
your piles playing up again?
4 Oct 2012, 20:27 pm
@I am a stormer-336: nah, i was thinking of how Lambies must be aggravating him, what with all those splinters
4 Oct 2012, 20:28 pm
@Dawn-325: No one mentioned shaving Dawn.
But to be honest, it was all meant in jest.
In response to Dangerman’s hairdresser comment.
PS you back at the office?
4 Oct 2012, 20:31 pm
@Jeraldjay-334: I played cricket with Brian Bags in primary school.
4 Oct 2012, 20:36 pm
@stormersboy-339:
Jeez, I’ve got to read slower
After all the manscaping posts, I read “I’ve played cricket with Brian’s bags in school”
4 Oct 2012, 20:37 pm
@stormersboy-339:
He was a fl!pp!n good batsmen. Busy at the crease l!ke a Jonty Rhodes.
4 Oct 2012, 20:38 pm
@gunther-332:
Not trusting the wife with a sharp razor near the crown jewels?
Cold hands?
> Too big for domestic equipment.
Gunther John Holmes?
4 Oct 2012, 20:39 pm
@poppa69-335:
Not if you’re a Scatophile
4 Oct 2012, 20:41 pm
@Transformation-15: what a lot of bollocks..you 2 (tacitus and yrself) havent got a clue, just think for a moment, NZ is a small nation of 4.5million people, nothing compared to your country. The AB’s are the No.1 Sports Team of the country and so everything the NZRU does protects that status, in essence – they and we look after our own. In SA is dog eat dog and franchise protect their borders, keep it up Jappies, because the longer you stay with your system, the poorer your rugby becomes, eventually of course you lot will go North to play with the ***** Rugby Clubs….thats where you belong…Aus and Arg and NZ can carry on themselves….
4 Oct 2012, 20:45 pm
@victoriabok-340: hahahaha sick b@stard.
4 Oct 2012, 20:46 pm
@Jeraldjay-341: I got a ball in the eye socket from him in the nets as a 12 year old.
He wasn’t the best cricketer in the team mind you.
4 Oct 2012, 20:48 pm
ah well, good luck to both teams this weekend..
time to go catch a plane.
Kia kaha black.
4 Oct 2012, 20:50 pm
a week without Poppa on keo to keep you Saffas in check… I will have to leave that to Cane, hurri, Nils, NZinChina et al
and the “honorary maori” aka The Tackler..
enjoy the game all..
4 Oct 2012, 20:56 pm
@JohnPierre-344:
Jingleberry Muncher is in Da House
4 Oct 2012, 20:57 pm
I need help. In London on Saturday, where can I watch the SA/ NZ game? On the Southbank, close to Southwark tube station.
4 Oct 2012, 21:00 pm
@goodstuff-44:
since neutral refs (1992):-
68% win ratio vs Boks
81% in NZ
56% in SA
not even Hansie could doctor those figures
4 Oct 2012, 21:04 pm
@SEEBRIES-350: Go to Temple Walkabout, by Temple tube station
4 Oct 2012, 21:11 pm
@The Donkeys Egg-351:
There’s only one guy I know that talks like that. How’s it hanging bp?
Then we get an Irish ref last week who stuffed up the last substituion for the ozzies.
And we’ve all seen decisions going wrong – even in a techno world.
4 Oct 2012, 21:14 pm
@I am a stormer-353:
substitution – that’s better
4 Oct 2012, 21:22 pm
@David-321: @David-326:
Well you fortunately corrected a gross error.
But even today, judging from the shameless glorification and celebration of dishonest self-advancement, laziness and the illegal and illegitimate enrichment by the posts prior to yours and of the last few days(STBUR episodes X 2), the lesson still has not been learnt and it is all just a joke to these miscreants.
Tens of thousands of good honest hard-working people lost their life-long, and for many, only possessions while Ministers of a ‘verkrampte’ government stole from them.
Most of those cheated died in hovels, far from Dist.6. Woodstock and even Walmetr Estate, which had hastily been slapped together; the Manenbergs, Heidevelds Bonteheuvels, Steenbergs(township) and more.
4 Oct 2012, 21:24 pm
@willievz-352: Thanks, will do.
4 Oct 2012, 21:26 pm
@willievz-352:
Willie, I saw one of your posts recently noting you approved of the way Duane has slotted in. I think he had Bok material written all over him from the word go. I think he has impressed a good few and shut the mouths of more. But as a Bok he will be pushing on and know that someone will want his place – the competition for places is there. But Heyneke is slowly but surely refining his squad.
Also that little blonde 6 at the Griquas is one to keep an eye on. He looks like a busy player.
4 Oct 2012, 21:31 pm
How’d he get from Black Panther to Donkey’s Egg
4 Oct 2012, 21:32 pm
This is quite a good video. Apart from Lambie and the bench, I agree with the selections based on who is available right now.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb0TG6uYyP4
4 Oct 2012, 21:34 pm
@Dawn-358:
The style of writing. Just guessing. Wait till he puts in a little peaches. Then you’ll know.
4 Oct 2012, 21:34 pm
@I am a stormer-357:
Yes, Marnus Schoeman was released to play for Griquas by FL and Pine in their infinite wisdom
We’re running short on loosies, Stegmann has been injured the whole year, Dewald will get injured like he always does and Tecklenburg is going to the Lions
4 Oct 2012, 21:43 pm
@David-321:
Even before D6 the abominable Group Areas Act got rid of people of colour somewhat more silently but effectively from all of Constantia, Sea Point, Newlands(upper included),Upper Wynberg and Claremont and many, many more areas. Not a single area in Greater Cape Town was not inhabited by the genuine Cape indigenous folk.
And thereafter the rest of the country where the ‘verkramptes’ had their eyes on.
You seem to be sitting on a mausoleum-load of disgusting information. Why did you not shock STBUR and supporters with it?
4 Oct 2012, 21:45 pm
@victoriabok-361:
Didn’t know that. A Griquas contract is something looked at carefully by youngsters. They play CC and available for Super Rugby via Cheetahs. Even Matfield went that route.
We have loosies falling over each other. But this is one guy to keep an eye on. He knows that the shortest way between 2 places is a straight line.
4 Oct 2012, 21:50 pm
Jeez I miss that “peaches” thing
4 Oct 2012, 21:50 pm
@I am a stormer-357: Howzit bud,
Yep, I am very impressed by Duane, and it is with absolute pleasure that I say I’ve been wrong about him.
I honestly thought S15 was his ceiling, a sentiment I thought PDivvie shared too. I had some concerns about his ball carrying technique in that he lifted his legs too high before colliding with the defense. He looks to have shaken off this problem, to some extent.
But it is his defensive work and defensive support lines that is absolutely top dollar. His reading of the game is what allows him to be so effective at the breakdown.
It is clear that he is a defensive lynchpin at the Stormers and could well become an indispensible Bok in years to come.
A massive improvement on Spies.
4 Oct 2012, 21:52 pm
@victoriabok-361:
I meant SA as a whole have got plenty loosies.
What I can’t understand about the Bulls is how they let CJ Stander go. That guy has Bok written all over him. I know guys here punt Arno Botha. But i like the way Stander plays. At 7 or 8.
4 Oct 2012, 21:52 pm
@I am a stormer-366: I agree wholeheartedly about Stander.
Best loosie at the Bulls.
4 Oct 2012, 21:55 pm
@willievz-365:
Deon Fourie would be an improvement over Spies
Any other club loosie would be better
4 Oct 2012, 21:57 pm
@I am a stormer-366:
Stander, Arno and Marnus Schoeman?
That would have been a loose trio and replace one with Dewald Potgieter or Okkie Kruger
4 Oct 2012, 22:01 pm
@I am a stormer-366:
> What I can’t understand about the Bulls is how they let CJ Stander go
P-iss poor management, they’re making lot’s of money with sponsorships and said they sold a huge lot of pink jerseys
That’s why they can buy any player they fancy
But they have an average Super coach (FL) and a useless CC coach (Pine)
So player management is poor
4 Oct 2012, 22:02 pm
CJ Stander is a former SA Schools Captain too.
A born leader.
I read somewhere that Corne Krige is the only player ever to captain both SA Schools and the Springboks.
This tells you a lot about how we identify, manage and develop our rugby leaders.
4 Oct 2012, 22:06 pm
@willievz-365:
I know I’ve been biased but I liked the way he slotted in at the Cheetahs. I just felt at the time that WPRU had made a good choice. He is one of those 80 minute players. It is balls to the wall all day long. I like the way he is able to read the game. Something Spies is unable to do. At 8th man, a lot also depends on anticipation – following the attacking player or ball carrier, falling back when necessary to assist the full back, going corner flag on defence, a line-out option.
I was at a breakfast with HM prior to the first Bok squad announcement – Ian Mac as MC – when Heyneke was asked about the composition of his loosies. First name out of his mouth was Vermeulen. HM then went on to say less than complementary comments about Spies. Particularly at the breakdown point. He said Spies in open play is a different – but how many opportunities do you get like that in a test match.
4 Oct 2012, 22:09 pm
Very interesting on this website!!!
If the referree balls up of last weekend happened to be south africa on the receiving end this website would still be blowing up about a conspiracy. IRB declared rolland got it wrong against australia and should have allowed australia 15 men…..in any other ball sport any opposition playing with an extra man or down a player warrants for a null and void game to be declared.
If it were south africa on the receiving end like i said…..we would not be hearing the end of it! But alas as the boks are in the plus on the ledger not a peep. Just shows you saffa supportes are not principled!!
4 Oct 2012, 22:18 pm
@Jeraldjay-334:
And ox Vincent at keeper.
4 Oct 2012, 22:19 pm
Or we could get a cryogenic tank like the AB’s… like the one teh Welsh used when preparing for teh world cup, and which made such a difference in recovery times and fitness for them.
4 Oct 2012, 22:21 pm
@wallabie.-373:
Mate, initially the IRB came out and said that the ref had got it right.
Then today a 5 man IRB commission ruled that the substitution officials had stuffed up. And that Faainga (sp)should have been allowed on as the Aussies still could take advantage of one more technical sub – being one in the front row. I was at the game and being in the stands you are clueless as to what is happening not having the commentary. This went on for far too long. I agree – the Aussies were hard done by.
4 Oct 2012, 22:40 pm
@wallabie-373: This takes the award for stupidest comment of the week. Wrong on so many counts.
1) if it was a stuff up, then it was a stuff up by the ref. not the players and not the fans. So go bark up the refs tree.
2) The boks completely and utterly outplayed the wallabies.
3) youre talking down to us about principles whilst trying to suggest that the game should have been rendered null and void even though that isn’t a rule in rugby and more importantly, its not in the SPIRIT of rugby.
4) you are upset because we haven’t flooded this site with comments about how hard done by the wallabies were. What do you want, a f**king ballad?
5) and this one is my personal favourite, youre on a SOUTH AFRICAN website.
Dumbass.
5 Oct 2012, 01:35 am
@Kaizan-377:
“1) if it was a stuff up, then it was a stuff up by the ref. not the players and not the fans. ”
If it was a stuff up against the Boks, what would the Boks fans have said?
I think that is what he was alluding to.
Habana scored a try from a 3m forward pass last Saturday, for example.
Question: If Gear score a similar try on Saturday, and it is awarded, will the Bok fans come onto this site and CRY about it for the next two weeks/year or will they accept the refs (and touch judge’s) call?
5 Oct 2012, 01:50 am
@Dawn-364:
Howzit Peaches?
@Kaizan-377:
Read again what you said. You’re the dumbass.
5 Oct 2012, 02:00 am
The difference between the Boks and the AB bringing the “2nd string players” through:
Look at Savea and Romano and how they (their coach) put trust in them playing 80 minutes in specific games.
Not 4 minutes, like our coach uses certain players.
5 Oct 2012, 02:22 am
@willievz-163:
hahahaha
This smack of arrogance.
Willevz, you are dreaming. Stop posting in fact, you are embarrassing the good bloggers that know there rugby.
Disgusting
5 Oct 2012, 02:58 am
@flanka-10:
I rest my case.
You already said what I was going to say.
@race of tan-73:
“Take M Steyn for instance, from 2009 that man had not had a break from internationals or Super rugby”
He had a break from the 9th October 2011 until the start of the S15 in late February 2012.
That’s about 4 months. Isn’t it what the good doctor, Tim Noakes, prescribed?
5 Oct 2012, 03:24 am
I see Bekker has been quoted as saying this Bokke team is special and will be the best pack in the world, what does he base the special part on 4 wins from 8 or the fact they beat Aus C at home, I think these boys might be getting ahead of themselves as right now there is nothing special about this Bokke team.
5 Oct 2012, 04:45 am
@wallabie.-373:
Let us forget for a moment that it took the irb two goes and 5 days to work out it was actaully wrong. What I have noted in almost all the Wallaby games in the RC that they will sub one of the props very early on in the match, anything from 20 to 35 minutes in the first half. Then halfway through the second half they will bring back the swapped player. Do you think that is within the laws of the game.
PS Did the same on Saturday and the main reason they ended using 7 subs…
5 Oct 2012, 04:59 am
@Kaizan-377:
You have totally missed the point Wallabie was making.
For a start, you favourite at the end. Who really cares if this is a SA website. This Website is on the world web……. we all own it.
Did you see any Kiwis or Ozzies bitching about the mistakes or missed calls the ref or touch judges did?
I have not seen one. Look sat it this way. When NZ play Another team and the ABs win…..guess who complains about the refs…… South Africans, even if you guys are not even playing. But if either OZzie or the ABs are on the receiving end of bad calls, you all go silent. Bakkies is a prime example of one eyed and arrogant supporter. I thought he was all for a fair game but Ozzie vs the Boks last week seemed not to be fair…. and where is bakkies now? Enjoying the moment on how invincible his Bok team is lol.
5 Oct 2012, 05:01 am
@nama1-382:
lol Mr Noakes.
What happened to Mr Noakes anyways?
Was he a fake?
5 Oct 2012, 05:58 am
@Hurricane-386: He suffered concussion in a very heavy tackle and changed his mind about everything…. heh heh.
5 Oct 2012, 06:09 am
Noakes made an a rse out of Tackler as as such tackler is a bitter man and takes any little dig he can!
5 Oct 2012, 06:12 am
Hurricane, it’s a little rich you calling saffas one eyed when you and your kind do exactly the same, and whinge for similar reasons. Anyone would think you fu kkers are squeaky clean, when we all know that is not the case, so wind your neck in you dooooos.
5 Oct 2012, 06:17 am
And just a reminder, the bitching and whinging after the 2007 fwd is still a world record, f uk it went on for years. Shake your head your brain is in neutral, you deluded idiot!
5 Oct 2012, 06:46 am
Duh and this is new?? NZ rugby is very different to SA rugby and better; hence their win ratio. Rugby in NZ is THE sport; hence everyone, politicians, officials, refs, coaches, the rules (if the laws were properly applied; McCaw would have been long retired) and players work for NZ rugby; with only a grumble here and there. That’s why Henry, McCaw et al are treated as national treasures for being gifted a RWC they scraped home in (thanks Craig). Although it’s an industry that imports many PI players to keep going, I suspect it’s also financially very wobbly so winning the RWC was essential.
I think rugby in SA is very different. Just about every individual works for himself. From keo, Oberholzer, Hoskins, Mallett/Guiness/Solomons, King Watson, refs, most of the provincial bosses and many of the players realise that SA rugby is not going to look after them so they need to look after themselves. The politicians are either anti Boks (Manuel) or ambivalent; certainly not supportive; well maybe selectively but that is almost worse. Politics is against excellence. The idiocy of the SWC stadiums in Durbs and CT is but one example.
The result is that, despite good traditional, groundswell support, a large player base and relatively good financial health, SA rugby is mediocre and fragmented. Until their are big charges in politics, rugby administration, coaching and officialdom, SA rugby will continue to under-achieve. And I don’t see any changes on the horizon. On the coaching front, Meyer’s team hasn’t impressed me so far. Smacks of baadjies for boeties.
Just an aside; I suspect that GPS, instrumentation and player tracking will show that the kick, chase and defend game takes more out of the players than a more open, ball in hand game. That may be why SA players suffer so many injuries – they have to play harder.
5 Oct 2012, 08:37 am
@Hurricane-385: Hurri I’m curious to see Bakkies’ take on this one…
5 Oct 2012, 08:53 am
@whatever-389:
Surprise surprise.
Whenever a kiwi hits up a South African about being one eyed, guess who pops up with Doos comments.
So do you have anything to say about Kaizans post?
Did you even realise what i was trying to say or did you just turn green into the incredile doos caller and bring piss all to the thread ….once again.
Yawn.
@Atreides-392:
mate i would love to see what I love aka “I want a fair game” Bakkies has to say about that.
5 Oct 2012, 08:59 am
@whatever-390:
You bringing up 2007 once again??
Do you guys ever stop complaining about 2007, its been over 5 years now.
And by the way….Show me some respect clown.
I pay for your unemployment benefit here in NZ, while you play with yourself surfing the net for Kiwis to have a go at.
Grow up little fella, you are way out of your league against Hurricane.
5 Oct 2012, 10:21 am
@Hurricane-385:
> Did you see any Kiwis or Ozzies bitching about the mistakes or missed calls the ref or touch judges did?
Yes, wallabie is doing it right now. Not to mention the forward pass in the 2007 quarter final against France. AB fans are still bitching about it today…. Bitching about reffing decisions is something all fans do. Can you name me one rugby nation who’s fans are emotionless when refs get it wrong against them?
> Who really cares if this is a SA website. This Website is on the world web……. we all own it.
It seems it is YOU who has missed the point. I am aware we all own the web dumbass. My point is that that wallabie is confused why we haven’t flooded this site with comments about how hard done by the Ozzies were. I’ll try and make it really simple for your really simple mind: This is a SOUTH AFRICAN website. Of course the fans on this website are going to be less emotional about a reffing decision than the Ozzie fans. If he is looking for sympathy, he should go to an Ozzie website. Just like if you. You’re obviously looking for humiliation, so you’ve come to this website and talked absolute nonsense.
> Look sat it this way. When NZ play Another team and the ABs win…..guess who complains about the refs…… South Africans
“To generalise is to be an idiot.” – William Blake
5 Oct 2012, 10:22 am
@husky-391: Good read, thanks
5 Oct 2012, 10:29 am
@Kaizan-395:
Idiot.
Wallabie made a point, yet all you came up with was its a South African website….. So your point is South Africans cos its a South African website dont ewant a fair game…as Bakkies has been preaching.
About 2007 show me where did we bring that up….thats right a South African bought that up, not a kiwi. You guys complain about the RWC 2007more than us, you guys still bring it up, this thread has just proven that. Dummies complaining about Kiwis complaining.
And the truth is you guys will complain about a ref….only if you lose or the Kwiw/Ozzies win against another team…its a fact.Been on here longer than you so i know.
5 Oct 2012, 10:31 am
@Kaizan-395:
“Look sat it this way. When NZ play Another team and the ABs win…..guess who complains about the refs…… South Africans
“To generalise is to be an idiot.” – William Blake ”
True, but did i say all South Africans…..nope.
5 Oct 2012, 10:36 am
willievz I had to go to 163 to see why you pissed Hurricane off that much. MMM…I can see. Although you probably put the kaksoek bait out there, and Hurricane fell for it.
hook line and sinker
Hurricane don’t take the bait man, these guys will reel you in !!!
5 Oct 2012, 10:42 am
@cuntlyn-399:
hehehe actually Willie made a mistake and corrected himself a few posts later.
I was a bit quick….shot from the hip and no aim.
5 Oct 2012, 10:43 am
@cuntlyn-399: Hehe
The Kiwis, and him in particular, mostly fall for it
Poppa knows I try to bait them and is starting to get the better of me though
5 Oct 2012, 10:47 am
@willievz-401:
Now Now Willie, you meant ever bit of it as you corrected what you were suppose
to say later on.
5 Oct 2012, 10:50 am
@Hurricane-397:
> the truth is you guys will complain about a ref….only if you lose or the Kwiw/Ozzies win against another team…its a fact
You don’t know what the definition of “fact” is.
> Been on here longer than you so i know.
Irrelevant.
> You guys complain about the RWC 2007more than us
We won the 2007 world cup idiot.
Right Hurricane, I’ve had enough of you. You are dismissed. Run along now. There’s a good boy.
5 Oct 2012, 10:58 am
@Kaizan-403:
Correct you won the RWC 2007,well done but again you stated that we always complain
about it. Show me on here who bought it up.
As i have said you guys bring up RWC 2007 more than us.
And you guys complain about us complaining.
But you seem to think we always do it. Please find the posts where i complained about RWC 2007?
I am an AB fan, you said the ABs fans,or were you just generalising?
Ok, we are finished, you have no points at all. You are the weakest link…..good bye
5 Oct 2012, 11:16 am
@Hurricane-404: You’re scraping the barrell son. He did not state that you “always complain”… He said that all fans complain. Show us one rugby nation whose fans don’t.”
You truly are an idiot and you have been well and truly owned.
5 Oct 2012, 11:21 am
@Hurricane-404: PS: “The weakest link”? Really?
My apologies, I had no idea we were dealing with a f**king loser.
5 Oct 2012, 13:33 pm
@the authority-405:
Owned?lol
You have no clue what owned is but i do. I support the best rugby teamin the world.
You guys have been owned in the RC, you have just been schooled a$$hole.
@the authority-406:
You are the idiot, are you kaizans little helper??
As i said i did not bring upthe RWC 2007, someone else did and complained about it( South African).
Yet he said we always complain about it, so where did he see that i complainied about it?
Nowhere thats where.
5 Oct 2012, 15:03 pm
@Hurricane-407: Haha all you can do is change the subject!! You got owned boy, just like I am owning you now. This is about you. Don’t try and change the subject to the All Blacks. P*ssy.
You are making a monumental fool of yourself. You should just quite while youre behind.
I agree with Kaizan, you’re a waste of time. Dismissed.
5 Oct 2012, 15:05 pm
What’s all this then
5 Oct 2012, 15:36 pm
@Hurricane-404: Don’t have a little cry fest little girl. Damn ! How petulant of you. Are you on your period ?
5 Oct 2012, 15:39 pm
@Hurricane-407: You guys got lucky for a Springbok kicker that was off form…..get your facts straight narrow foreheaded islander.
5 Oct 2012, 16:27 pm
@David-321: Dawie went tio Bellville. H.S.Never got to play against him.Fantastic player.Same generation as Mannetjies.
5 Oct 2012, 16:29 pm
@David-321: Sies.And Sies again.
5 Oct 2012, 16:38 pm
@Hurricane-386: self confessed
5 Oct 2012, 16:41 pm
@ryecatcher-413: Bloody hypocrite
5 Oct 2012, 22:47 pm
@the authority-408:
You are so off target clown its embarrasing
What subject did i change??
I asked for proof when i was told that I being me complained about RWC 2007.
Go ahead, you can try but there is nothing.
Just watch after tonights game, you will be gone.
6 Oct 2012, 02:45 am
Omg just seen the comments on this page. Serious ownage put down on hurricane. Gonna be difficult to recover from that.
6 Oct 2012, 02:55 am
@poltergeist-417:
What are you on about.
I have been accused of moaning about RWC 2007??
I have asked where and not one bit of proof. If you guys think this is owning you really need to get out.
A kiwi well show what an owning is mummy boys
6 Oct 2012, 02:56 am
@Dusky-410:
You know nothing clown.
Takes 5 South Africans to try and put me in my place….lol.
Good try Dusky,but i think it might take 7 South Africans
6 Oct 2012, 03:04 am
@Hurricane-418: don’t worry about ’07,we’ll have ’11 & ’15 WC’s to keep us happy.
6 Oct 2012, 03:26 am
@Hurricane-418: It seems to me like you and wallabie were casting the first stone. You said south africans always complain when a reffing decision goes against them. Kaizan tried to point out to you that all rugby fans complain about this.
Can you copy and paste the exact quote where Kaizan accused you of moaning about the 07 world cup?? And dont paste the sentence about when the all black fans complained about the forward pass. That is NOT an accusation on you.
I have a very strong feeling you wont be able to produce such a quote.
The floor is yours.
6 Oct 2012, 03:48 am
All fans moan about the ref. Moral is if u want sympathy dont go to the oppositions website. If the ref had made a mistake against SA there wouldnt be much sympathy on Australian websites either.
Time to move on. This ones got a bit tired.
6 Oct 2012, 03:55 am
@McAwesome-422: Agreed.
Hurricane, dont worry about finding me that quote. Youre off the hook.
6 Oct 2012, 04:19 am
@poltergeist-421:
So he said AB fans…that is me but he didnt mean me?
RRRiiiigggghhhhht
@poltergeist-423:
No hook at all.
6 Oct 2012, 04:45 am
Hurricane get over it mate. U asked him if he saw any kiwis or ozzies bitching about mistakes the refs made and he answered your question. Now all of a sudden he was accusing you?? Just move on mate this is embarrassing.
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