ABs: The myth and legend
8 Oct 2012
JON CARDINELLI says the All Blacks’ perfect balance between kicking and running, as well as their high level of execution, has allowed them to become the undisputed champs of world rugby.
As if the World Cup, Bledisloe Cup, Freedom Cup, and Rugby Championship title were not enough. The All Blacks didn’t just win that Rugby Championship trophy, they didn’t just win six out of six, they once again made a statement about how the game should be played.
It’s seems an obvious thing to say about the All Blacks, but then there is more to this side than what is perceived at a first glance.
They have some of the most gifted attacking players on the planet, but many forget that a team cannot win championships without a balanced approach. If attack was all you needed to be a success, the Lions would be reigning Super Rugby champions.
Before you celebrate the All Blacks as outstanding innovators and finishers, consider how they get themselves into those scoring positions. It is through a great mix of power, intelligence, and a fair bit of trickery that they win the forward battles. It is through sharp decision making that they can switch between kicking for territory and counter-attacking. And don’t underestimate the role experience has played in the All Blacks’ 16-Test winning run.
Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer said earlier this year that experience helped the All Blacks win that 2011 World Cup, and went on to explain that it is experience that boosts a team in areas like defence, kicking, discipline and game management. You can have all the attacking talent in the world, but if you can’t succeed in these other aspects, you aren’t going to win championships.
Take the Rugby Championship finale at Soccer City as an example. The Boks were in fine attacking form early on, and that try from Bryan Habana will go down as one of the best of their season. But as flat as the All Blacks were during the initial stages, they stuck to their defensive task. They absorbed the pressure and then struck back before half-time, and then again after the break.
Meyer praised the world champions afterwards for the way they went about closing out the game. Meyer said Dan Carter was the key man for the visitors, as his decision making and execution during this period allowed the All Blacks to play the game down in opposition territory.
The stats substantiate the statement. According to ruckingoodstats.com, the New Zealanders kicked the ball from hand on 30 occasions (the Boks kicked 23), keeping 11 of those kicks in play. It was the tactics of Carter and company to put the ball behind the Boks and ask them to counter-attack. And when the Boks made mistakes or bad decisions, the All Blacks were quick to pounce.
It was another thing Meyer pointed to: this All Blacks side has made a habit out of punishing opposition errors. Again, the stats suggest that the All Blacks were better off in this department, making just four handling errors to the Boks’ 11. What those stats don’t say is how the All Blacks turned Bok mistakes into point-scoring opportunities.
Defence was an issue for the hosts last Saturday, with the Boks missing 12 tackles. The All Blacks missed 10, but that number needs to be put in perspective, as the visitors spent more time on defence (they had just 43% possession). While the Boks missed one in four tackle attempts, the All Blacks missed one in six.
The goal-kicking has been poor throughout the tournament, and again the Boks missed four of their eight attempts.
All in all, the Boks were guilty of spurning their own chances, and also guilty of providing the opposition with scoring chances. It was like two teams were playing against the Boks last Saturday: that is the All Blacks and the Boks themselves.
The All Blacks were good enough to first claw their way back into the lead, and then punish the South Africans to the tune of 16 points. That’s a hiding.
Meyer says his team has a long way to go, a statement that was later followed by Steve Hansen’s assertion that this All Blacks side can get better. The New Zealanders have won 16 in a row, and having brushed the Boks aside you’d have to expect them to breeze through Europe and overtake Lithuania for the most consecutive Test victories.
The Boks were No 2 in the world on Saturday night, but were overtaken when the Wallabies beat the Pumas in Argentina later on. Nevertheless, the Boks and the Wallabies are in the same boat in that they are nowhere near the All Blacks in terms of balance and experience.
The Boks are playing the right game, but their execution is not where it should be. I agree with Meyer that the forced introduction (because of injuries) of a number of youngsters has left this Bok side light on experience in key positions. That in turn has compromised their consistency as well as their ability to close out tight Tests.
A 16-point defeat at home is never going to be excused or be anything but embarrassing. At the same time, there has to be some perspective about where this young Bok team is in relation to what is (or at least will become after breaking that world record) the best All Blacks side in history.
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401 Comments
8 Oct 2012, 05:26 am
Muuaaaahahahahahahaaaaaaa
Love to get the record for longest winning streak but are we Kiwis getting greedy?
Point is we have had an awesome 3 years and been proud of our team so i think it is something that would be another notch on the ball but personally i wouldn’t be that disappointed if we didn’t make the record, just proud of my team.
I…..love …… you …..just ….the …..way …..you …..are ( crying in between words )
8 Oct 2012, 05:42 am
@Hurricane-1:
Huri….like you I am proud of the Ab achievements 2010 to present.The experience and skill that has grown in this period will hold the team in good stead moving forward, as long as they keep everything in perspective and like all ABb sides always remember the defeats and the not so good times. But hell yeah……let us rejoice whilst the going is good.
Just a footnote, for me even if Abs go on to break the record I would still rate the 96 side the greatest Ab side ever.
8 Oct 2012, 05:51 am
@Hurricane-1:
Well done Hurri and all the other AB supporters on here, enjoy it as they will surely go on and thrash that record. Well played on Saturday.
I was very disappointed after the game but being the eternal optimist that I am, I think we (Bok supporters) need to see things in perspective. No matter how you slice it, this is a young and inexperienced team with a brand spanking new coach (at this level). Compare it to our two main rival and Deans, been there a while and Hansen, even longer albeit not as head coach and we can look forward to much improvement.
Saturday was terrible from a supporter’s point of view but come November I am sure I will feel much better and be right back at believing my team is all but unbeatable
8 Oct 2012, 05:57 am
@Te Rangatira-2:
They will go on and break the record and it is hard to take that away but their performances for most part of this year was rather underwhelming, even in winning. Last week in this one showing a definate upward trend mind you.
8 Oct 2012, 05:59 am
JC,Habana’s try was clearly a foward pass and you turn a blind eye to that? So never scored a legit try on Saturday. Imagine if that try was a decider!
The Boks are getting better compared to their earlier games with the dumb rugby but unfortunately the habit is still there ie the tendency to kick ahead and hope for the best. The backline is auwful because they do not know what to do with the ball. They are not coached to be creative at all.
Compare them to the mighty Blacks. Blacks are nice to the eye, they excite and make you happy with the artistry in motion. Rugby is basically a sport to entertain and enjoy.
Unfortunaly with the Boks set-up basically the former bulls coaching stuff, do not expect much to change from Boks. The mindless skop and jag will always be inculcated in players minds.
Comparing them – chalk and cheese.
8 Oct 2012, 06:00 am
*in = and
8 Oct 2012, 06:00 am
@Slartibartfast-3:
Hi Slarti, always remain optimistic, cause we all know the wheel turns and somewhere down the track things may well be in reverse. I suspect you know I am no great fan of Meyer but I am very interested to see how he goes about turning the Bok into a world beating side in the future.
8 Oct 2012, 06:01 am
“Fair bit of trickery”? Funny that no matter who refs the game, their “fair bit of trickery” is not judged as trickery by the one man on the pitch designated as the “sole judge of fact” in Law 6? It’s like saying that one’s feet stay attached to the ground by “a fair bit of trickery” rather than plain, boring old gravity.
8 Oct 2012, 06:09 am
@TheTackler-8:
Ae Tackler, JC seems to think physics is all smoke and mirrors.
8 Oct 2012, 06:32 am
@Peter Mkata-5:
The Habana try was no worse than a lot of other tries scored in games these days, by all teams, NZ included.
What makes it stand out was the 22 metre line tracking the trajectory of the ball.
Watching it live it looked okay and you have to acknowledge it was a beautiful piece of rugby.
But I take your point, if the game had of been close at the end, that pass would be a hot topic of debate.
8 Oct 2012, 06:33 am
@Te Rangatira-7:
Yip but the Bok wheel seems to grind very slowly the last 5 years…
The Meyer will do fine, we don’t have anyone better in SA bar a few burned bridges and they will never look to a foreign coach.
PS No foreign coach in his right mind will look at SA either.
8 Oct 2012, 06:42 am
@Brads-10:
Lame and as frustrating as it can be for the supporter on the receiving end but there is a difference between the ball moving forward and a forward pass. I did not and neither do I care to watch the try again and not saying this is the case.
Refs are told to look at the hands in the motion of passing and not the trajectory of the ball. There is a clip on the irb website (I think) they use to illustrate the above, in short, a guy running flat out in a straight line will pass (throw the ball) over his head, clearly backward but due to a “fair bit of trickery” the ball will actually land infront of where he passed the ball…
8 Oct 2012, 06:43 am
Well done ABs, truely hammered the Boks in the second half, there were injuries out there and the Bok fwds looked tired after hammering away for 20mins without any points to show for it. Vermulen was owned by Read and Flo was the only guy on parity with AB.
Alberts was too busy F. ..g up Reeche to do much else .. Strauss is no Biz and even Chilli needs some exposure at the top .. Props and Locks so so .. not sure we have enough depth at Prop though .
The backs were bossed and with DC in fine form they were made to look like schoolboys.
For us we need to get Frans back and fit, we need a specialist 13 as Taute as talented as he is cannot come in without any experience against Smith. Hope that JFourie comes back for a year whilst we develop .. Our 10 is up for grabs although EJ should hold the jersey. JPP back at wing and a rethink at 15 .. maybe Taute if he can perform at S15 ..
Final and important note to SARU .. You cannot compete at intrenational level with international coaches !!! .. Get rid of Loubscher and Koen and get an Aussie in .. Also D coach needs more than Pretoria on his CV !!!!!!!!
8 Oct 2012, 06:45 am
Oops meant “without International Coaches” ..
8 Oct 2012, 06:47 am
@Slartibartfast-12: Pass looked forward to me but I have seen plenty by AB like that and given .. I think the ref was “kind” to Boks in 1st half … however Reeche should have had a yellow as continual in the red zone … Would not have changed result though !
8 Oct 2012, 06:50 am
@Slartibartfast-12:
As I stated, it happens all the time.
It looked fine to me live and the NZ commentators didn’t blink an eye either, so that is good enough as far as I am concerned.
8 Oct 2012, 06:55 am
@Doughnut-15: @Brads-16:
Reality is that if you want to, you can find fault with plenty of the ref’s calls in a game. In a close match the losing team error just seem to be so much more glaring…in the eyes of their supporters. End of the day, it is not an exact science and given the speed and all other factors, the refs are only human, things won’t always be 100%.
8 Oct 2012, 06:56 am
To my friend Houston, chin up mate, keep those posts coming cause its supporters like you that every team needs………through thick or thin……catch you up.
8 Oct 2012, 06:58 am
@Doughnut-15:
I may be wrong, but to the best of my knowledge Ritchie wasn’t penalised, but if he was it would have been once.
Issuing yellow cards normally implies repeated penalties awarded against a specific player, not imagined penalties supporters wish were awarded.
8 Oct 2012, 06:59 am
As it is I also thought it was fine first up, replay I was thinking it was marginal. So given my biased in these matters and in the heat of battle there is a fair chance it was forward. Let us all just be happy it did not impact the result or else all hell would have broken out…
8 Oct 2012, 07:08 am
1. driving off players without the ball.
2. hands.
3. macaw falling onto the wrong side of the ruck.
4. different players going onto the wrong side of the ruck.
5. hands.
6. offsides.
7. going off feet / to ground at ruck.
8. hands.
9. taking up position ahead of the ruck.
10. ab prop drops bind *should be an immediate penalty*.
11. disengaging early from scrum.
12. lineout distance infringement.
13. macaw blocking at scrum.
14. entering maul from side and continuing to play.
15. hands in ruck playing ball.
16. tackling support player without the ball intentionally – nonu.
17. *spear tackle* – retalick (is this even a debate…?..but i’ll bet you the citing commisioner if a saffa let it go).
18. offsides.
19. macaw slowing ball in ruck blatantly.
20. forward pass read – try.
21. sealing off at ruck.
22. obstructive running.
23. offsides again.
——————————————————–
THINGS TO REMEMBER:
this is just the first half and is by no means a full and final assesment of their filth.i will go over the second half and post it by wed perhaps, along with the, cursory, first half assesment i have made.
8 Oct 2012, 07:15 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-21:
LOL
I assume those are your mental images of what the AB’s did but were not penalised for.
Of course SA were purer than a virginal nun on her first day after taking her vows.
8 Oct 2012, 07:15 am
we can all agree the second half was where their filth really came into its own so expect the infringement count to rocket for the second half assesment.
8 Oct 2012, 07:16 am
Congrats to Branden Grace winning the Dunhill Open.
Why is it that keewees arent good in sports where it is difficult to cheat?
Co-incidence?
I think not.
8 Oct 2012, 07:18 am
@Brads-22:
new zeaalnd is the filthiest team in world rugby, fact.
i am curious to see whether they will surpass expectations for their second half behaviour. if it wasn’t for work, deadlines (and some killer heartburn) i would have done it over the weekend already.
8 Oct 2012, 07:22 am
@Te Rangatira-18:
cheers to you too tr.
8 Oct 2012, 07:25 am
and dont even get me started on that old pearler, the ‘official team warning’…
i’ve heard that one before but hell man…. what a larf….
8 Oct 2012, 07:27 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-25:
Facts, in the legal sense are open to debate, because they can be biased toward the view point of the person who expresses them.
Your version of the Facts are certainly different from the main stream, but no less valid in the overall scheme of things.
8 Oct 2012, 07:27 am
@21 oh cummon bakkies… give it a rest… or better yet, become a ref yourself.
8 Oct 2012, 07:27 am
Does this lay to rest the issue of high altitude and excessive travelling, advantage or diadvantage thereof. Or does this mean the Boks are down right useless/poor or the Blacks are are super human who do not get affected by these so-called challenges? Just asking
8 Oct 2012, 07:36 am
@Brads-22:
‘virginal nun’
Man!
8 Oct 2012, 07:36 am
@Peter Mkata-30:
It does really.
The old chestnut of teams visiting the likes of Pretoria and Jo’burg being at a disadvantage has dropped away due to the frequency of visiting teams playing there over recent years.
All teams know how to prepare, plus it does help if you are as fit as Test players are these days.
8 Oct 2012, 07:37 am
The zen conundrum: if a tree falls in a remote forest where nobody hears it fall, did it make any noise? And if a referee does not think the ABs are infringing, how can you dispute the judgement of the “sole judge of fact”? Especially when these sole judges of fact unerringly, unanimously and independently arrive at their identical judgements no matter where they are or who they play?
You can’t.
Those who claim they all err are not even referees at 1st XV level. So it’s high time we apply the “experto credite” rule. Trust the experts. And get over it.
8 Oct 2012, 07:37 am
I agree with Nick Mallett on this one, the ABs should go on and break this record, they deserve it, this is a very good AB side.
8 Oct 2012, 07:39 am
@Brads-22:
Hehehe Bakkies summing up the first 23 seconds of the match…
PS Bakkies, just give it a rest. If we lost by 1 point in the dying seconds you may have had a leg to stand on, may…alas looks at the scoreboard.
8 Oct 2012, 07:40 am
tickles is a expert of being lonely,old and living with his mother
8 Oct 2012, 07:41 am
@TheTackler-33: f.uck off tackler!
8 Oct 2012, 07:51 am
Give Tackles some credit, he has been standing by his moto since day one on keo. He lost it for one day when he thought the ref missed a forward pass but he came back the next day and gave the same lesson to his adopted family.
8 Oct 2012, 07:51 am
@Slartibartfast-35:
the second half half was shocking for the amount of preofessional fouls in the nz red zone, slart…shocking…
i cant believe the nz number four was allowed to blatantly attack the bok ball carrier who was at the back of a driving maul meters out from the line.
just like that, he goes all the way around the back of the dtiving maul and attempts to rip the ball from the ball carrier.
this just one example of outright filth by the nz team long after the ‘official team warning’…. of course…..
8 Oct 2012, 07:54 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-39:
Wow
Under 20 minutes to review the entire 2nd half and post your verdict.
You are a bloody genius.
You must be related to one of the Bokke coaches, or board members.
8 Oct 2012, 07:54 am
@Rage-29:
its despicable the level they have taken rugby to.
@Brads-28:
you will receive the second half FACTS of the game, time permitting later in the week.
8 Oct 2012, 07:55 am
@Brads-40:
huh..?..
8 Oct 2012, 07:58 am
@ Slartibartfast re the wheel turns: I was at twickenham for the 1997 test between the AB’s and England. It was the end of an amazing period of Ab rugby, only had to thrash the poms again to have an unbeaten year which had eluded us in 1996. Instead, the wheels fell off and we only just salvaged a draw, which was a hint of the horror to follow in the 1998 tri nations.
Later that year I sat in a pub in twickers (where I was living) and watched on tele the boks tear apart the Scots something like 70-10. The bok backs tore apart the scots in one of the best attacking displays I have seen. I was dumbstruck, as we had easily had the boks number since 1992 and the hadn’t seemed capable of that kind of play. It obviously was no fluke however, as this was part of the boks 17 match winning streak and you beat us 2-nil in 2008.
The wheel turns bro, we don’t know when but when it does it is bound to be decisive. It’s just nature!!
8 Oct 2012, 08:00 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-42:
Well seeing as how all the Bokke coaching staff are geniuses and so are the SARU board members in approving their appointments, ergo my assumption you must be related to them.
8 Oct 2012, 08:04 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-39:
Brads said it, the wheel turns and now is not the right time to have this discussion.
8 Oct 2012, 08:06 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-41:
So your post @39 was incomplete and needs more in-depth tunnel vision therapy in front of the monitor to confirm your pre-set understanding of the Fact’s?
8 Oct 2012, 08:10 am
@corporal punishment-43:
I live in hope…
But you right and it can turn very quickly too, no matter how unbeatable you look one day, a few freak injuries and the odd retirement and/or loss of form and suddenly you look human again. It is a fickle sport and one should enjoy the ups when you can.
8 Oct 2012, 08:11 am
heyneke out!
8 Oct 2012, 08:17 am
Hearty congratulations to the All Blacks and all their supporters – that was an outstanding performance which, coming just a week after that annihilation in Argentina (with all the travelling involved) was indeed remarkable.
And as for Habana’s try, Peter Mkata I fully agree with you about it being a forward pass (marginal or not, forward is forward) but what irritated me the most is that I know these sort of decisions happen too often these days and if that try had been scored the other way around MNet would’ve shown the side-on view at least four times before halftime; as usual they didn’t.
I call it selective broadcasting.
8 Oct 2012, 08:19 am
The Springboks backline froze and were overawed each time Carter shifted the ball out to Nonu, everybody waiting for the Black Magic to happen when they should’ve been going up and closing it down.
Boks aren’t that far off NZ despite the drubbing.
Our coach is slow to adapt, all his ideas have backfired so far and it’s only after we’ve been burnt that’s he’s been forced by media and public opinion to change his mind.
Let’s see how the Autumn Internationals go.
8 Oct 2012, 08:23 am
@jacoshark-48:
Who should replace him?
8 Oct 2012, 08:25 am
Habana’s try came off a blatant forward pass. Forward passes which Jean de Villiers seem to deliver the entire match, and which the assistant ref, and ref just seemed to ignor.
8 Oct 2012, 08:31 am
No excuses from my side. The Boks were well and truly beaten by a superb AB side! I have no doubt that we have the talent to challenge and beat the AB’s in the future. But much will depend upon the personnel and game plan employed by Meyer. It’s in this area that serious doubts arise that i cannot seem to shake off! The Arsenal supporters always say…In Wenger we trust. I don’t have any of that feeling in Meyer.
8 Oct 2012, 08:36 am
@Slartibartfast-51:
I don’t know about actual replacement, but input from a non “provincial blinkered” mindset could be a way forward.
You had that in 2007 with Eddie Jones, but his input was a short sharp affair focused on the WC only.
Jones would not necessarily be any good for a long campaign in building the Bokke machine up to a level where they are consistently matching and even bettering the AB’s, or even the Aussie’s, who still hold a 64% win ratio over SA since Dean’s was appointed.
I don’t advocate Mitchell. He is a weirdo tosser supporters will come to hate rather quickly.
8 Oct 2012, 08:38 am
Sean Fitspatrick made an interesting comment after the game-he said that NZ are quite happy playing without the ball. It’s an interesting comment considering how much emphasis we put on possession.
8 Oct 2012, 08:39 am
@rossoneri-52:
It was not forward. It was knocked back by and All Black. Anyone with HALF A BRAIN knows this already.
8 Oct 2012, 08:39 am
@catchlightuk.com-55:
I hope he clarified that with some sort of logic, because I have yet to see a team who hold all the possession score points against themselves.
8 Oct 2012, 08:40 am
I have to agree with the article. ABs were very impressive. Well done to them. They are setting the pace. Challenge is for Boks to catch them.
I know they can do it.
8 Oct 2012, 08:41 am
With all those missed kicks on Saturday does anybody perhaps have the stats from the last game played there in 2010?
Seems like the kickers had something in common there.
Also crowd attendance please, I saw a lot of empty seats.
8 Oct 2012, 08:41 am
@The Analyst-56:
Are you speaking on behalf of all people with half a brain?
8 Oct 2012, 08:44 am
@BrumbiesBoy-59:
What was wrong with the crowd.
There were about 90,000 people who fronted for one reason only, to watch a dead rubber between NZ and SA.
8 Oct 2012, 08:51 am
Rugby refs and cricket umpires judgement will always be scrutinized and dissected ad nauseam. They are making split second decision based on what they see before them.
But good and bad decisions will always cancel it other out.
If their is life beyond our Galaxy and they had advanced satellites to watch Saturday’s game they could clearly see the AB’s are by far the better team.
HM keeps on blaming the players after bad performances. His a psych graduate but what he told the players during half time definitely didn’t work.
8 Oct 2012, 08:51 am
I didn’t know kiwi land had so many regular bloggers on here. ??
anyway. Good win, good for you.
The Boks still missing their kicks. If we kicked the extra 12 points when it still mattered, the game could have been closer.
Unfortunately Jantjes and Goossen didn’t exactly unlock our backline with 3/4 tries, like most Morne haters expected.
HM made a few interesting calls already this year. We’ll wait, we’ll see.. what happens in the last tour and next year. Dissapointing season really…
At least Ieast we’re not OZ.
8 Oct 2012, 08:54 am
@Brads-61: I didn’t say there was anything wrong with the crowd, I’m just curious to know the exact figure after seeing all those empty seats.
I read a report on Saturday of 2010s game having a figure of 94 700-and-something and would like to compare that’s all.
8 Oct 2012, 08:55 am
@Brads-32:
I think it is some kind of wishful thinking really considering the comments that were made on this site last week. We South Africans are so desperate to defeat the Blacks that whatever reason I bring up will be held on to hope we achieve the impossible. We just would not admit that the Blacks are just too good for anyone. Meyer as a coach was some kind of a wunderkind based on what? Winning against a weak Aussie team and poor performance by Blacks in Duniden or Blue Bulls rugby achievement of yonder years. It is totally insane.
8 Oct 2012, 08:57 am
@Brads-54: “…the Aussie’s, who still hold a 64% win ratio over SA since Dean’s was appointed.”
Apart from the egregious apostrophe abuse, this factual quote makes that smug yarpie nickname “Wobblies” look really, really silly.
8 Oct 2012, 09:00 am
Springbok coach win percentages since 1996 after nine matches:
Andre Markgraaff: 44.4%
Carel du Plessis: 37.5% (only coached eight matches)
Nick Mallett: 100%
Harry Viljoen: 66.7%
Rudolf Straeuli: 55.6%
Jake White: 77.8%
Peter de Villiers: 55.6%
Heyneke Meyer: 44.4%
8 Oct 2012, 09:00 am
i_love_u_bakkiesbotha
You need to go to bed and have a sleep mate.It is obvious you been up all night dreaming up a lot of ****.
8 Oct 2012, 09:02 am
@Brads-54:
I agree but I would like to know from the people calling for his head who they want in his place.
8 Oct 2012, 09:02 am
Friends, Bok fans, Saffa countrymen…..I honestly think it’s about time the denialists start admitting to a few things:
1. Heyneke Meyer is not the Messiah – he is a coach struggling to make the step up (as predicted)
2. The AB’s ARE (and have been for many years), the finest and most PROFESSIONAL team in the world
3. Pulling ‘head in the sand’ moves, makes us as a nation look fuckingstupid and whingy.
4. We are NOT the victims of world rugby – we just enjoy playing that role.
What Meyer does next, is where it get’s interesting.
8 Oct 2012, 09:04 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-70:
Tell me, what stands out in the statistics I posted in 67 above?
8 Oct 2012, 09:05 am
Inexperience and the lack of battle hardened veterans played its part on saterday. When the kiwis scored their first try against the run of play at the time….you could almost sense a slump of the shoulders….which was quite ironic because the look on sam whitlocks face was that of sheer exhaustion. We had the kiwis on the rack but let them back in through a couple of very soft moments. It was almost as if the boks adopted a sort of “bahhumbug” attitude because the kiwis scored off of one half chance and we had already left so many points on the field.
There was a definate drop in intencity and focus after that.
We should really just have stuck to the task at hand and kept the kiwis having to make tackles.
For me, not the greatest kiwi side as i have mentioned before that i take the calibre of opposition into account when trying to determine this sort of thing but definately the most clinical. Every time they got quick ball in the second half i thought they were going to score.
Very dissappointed but it was a good game these boks will go places if we can keep the entire unit together. I would definately try and get guthro and dupreez back for next years comp though.
8 Oct 2012, 09:05 am
@Peter Mkata-65: Who else is there that will put up with SARU ? I also believe that HM was poorly served in his appointment timetable and should have been recruiting assistantts after RWC 11 .. instead of Jan 12 ..
What I would like to see is HM pushing for a backline specialist and a defence expert ..
8 Oct 2012, 09:07 am
@Black Power-68:
He needs more than sleep BP.
He needs to see a Shrink.
8 Oct 2012, 09:09 am
@Slartibartfast-69:
There is a man who is only 55 years old, who played rugby at the highest level for South Africa, who holds three tertiary qualifications, who represented the University of Oxford in both rugby and cricket…
8 Oct 2012, 09:09 am
@WP-Forever-71: Yeah, I also noticed that.
Scary!
Not trying to “dig-a-grave” for HM are you?
8 Oct 2012, 09:10 am
@Slartibartfast-51:
id like to see a mix of provincial coaches and experienced “old heads”
ie a staff incl. naka, plumtree, os, mallet
doesnt really matter who youre gonna make head coach
it cant get any worse than things are atm
springbok rugby is on a downward spiral and i dont see things changing anytime soon
8 Oct 2012, 09:11 am
@ shooter 63: but Australia came ahead of you in the RC! And are the second ranked test nation!!!
8 Oct 2012, 09:12 am
@BrumbiesBoy-76:
Hey, I’m just posting statistics.
Same as a certain coach who claims certain players are too small.
8 Oct 2012, 09:12 am
@WP-Forever-71:
At least 38% of SA’s last 8 Coaches have some French ancestry. Most likely Huguenots.
8 Oct 2012, 09:13 am
@cane-74: I believe his shrink had a nervous breakdown last week…
P.s> Good morning & congratulations Cane, excellent performance.
8 Oct 2012, 09:13 am
67….to be fair, win percentage only tells half the story in this case.
What is the loss percentage.
8 Oct 2012, 09:18 am
73…..i am fairly certain that 1 coaching position needs to be filled by a non white.
In that regard we are very limited, who exactly is out there.
Meyer asked a bloke that he at least new and had worked with.
8 Oct 2012, 09:18 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-70: Agree .. we need a specialist backs coach and some Intl standard Defence coach .. Just training harder or running at oppo harder wont work ..
Very interesting if anything happens to assistants as HM needs to be supported by SARU ..
8 Oct 2012, 09:21 am
@shooter-63:
They ALL came out the hobbit’s cave over the weekend.
Or someone opened the Kiwi gate
8 Oct 2012, 09:22 am
@WP-Forever-71:
It’s obvious.
Is it a trick question?
8 Oct 2012, 09:23 am
@The Analyst-56: Pass from Jean was FORWARD!!!
8 Oct 2012, 09:24 am
@WP-Forever-71:
The coach with the 100% record is the one sitting in the fuckingsupersport studio?
8 Oct 2012, 09:26 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-83:
Non-white?
BEE?
You gonna wake STBUR
8 Oct 2012, 09:28 am
84….we need a new defence coach.?
Why?
This is the first game we have lost by more than seven. In fact, 10 tries conceded in 5 games in the toughest comp in the world is par for the course for me. Attack wise and probably truthfully….finishing is our biggest problem at the minute and that is a player problem to fix. Until saterday we had conceded 6 tries in 4 tests, in fact had the boks stuck to that ratio and trend we wouldmhave won.
8 Oct 2012, 09:28 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-23:
You are all alone Bakkies.
Everyone saw an AB team that was on fire and had a point to prove. We were penalised out of the first half yet you still saw another 23 penalties. lol classic.
I see the only person that believes you is fern…….hahaha wow what a team.
@Rage-29:
Can you imagine the game if Bakkies reffed.
60 penalties against opposition and 3 against the Boks. He is as one eye as his trouser snake.
8 Oct 2012, 09:31 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-70:
I have to agree on everything said! The whiners from the Cape are being proved correct now…
@WP-Forever-67:
Mallet stands out head and shoulders – and yes, he has the brains as well…
Not too late to make the change. Better sooner than later. HM is really looking quite stupid with his comments lately… Did we not drop back to three where we started when HM took over. If correct we are not going anywhere…
8 Oct 2012, 09:31 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-83: I would enjoy it if you or Taccy could assist us in deciphering justwhatthefuckitwas Meyer was doing in terms of replacements on Saturday?
I realise that those of us who don’t know or understand the genius that is Heyneke, might seem to be a negative bunch, when it could just be that we haven’t evolved enough to ‘grasp’ his genius (or read his mind) in the way you fellows can….
8 Oct 2012, 09:32 am
23….you were penalized in the first half because you were being dominated in the collisions,territory and possession. In fact, your lock was lucky to still be on the park. The kiwi side is very clinical that is their special ability.
8 Oct 2012, 09:32 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-93:
Indeed
The game was over for me when Eben was taken off.
WTF
8 Oct 2012, 09:33 am
We must be the only country that has to blame something for our poor showing. We have a young side, we have a new coach blah blah blah… The truth is we don’t have the coaching staff right now to make any difference. We will continue to be the bridesmaids… fact…
8 Oct 2012, 09:35 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-88:
It’s quite instructive that, at the time Nick Mallett was appointed Western Province’s director of rugby, Koos Basson, then president of WP Rugby Football Union, said Mallett’s strengths were, inter alia, his in-depth knowledge of the game and players throughout the world, excellent communication, and his ability to adapt game plans, selections and styles of play to suit various conditions and types of players…
8 Oct 2012, 09:36 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-90: Have you taken a look at the system being used for ‘D’?
Do yourself a kindness mate, and go and watch Mallet and Mitchell tearing apart the Boks defensive system in the post match chat. Let them explain it to you…..
Seriously, take a listen.
8 Oct 2012, 09:36 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-94:
“The kiwi side is very clinical that is their special ability.”
Which why there is this bemusement over the number of penalties awarded against the AB’s in the first 60 minutes versus zip for SA..
8 Oct 2012, 09:37 am
And no Cory fend
8 Oct 2012, 09:37 am
…and still people talk about postives from losing… the mind boggles. If you lose by one or ten or twenty you lose…
8 Oct 2012, 09:38 am
@WP-Forever-97:
So what was the reason he was kicked to touch despite having a 100% winning record?
8 Oct 2012, 09:39 am
COME CLOSER OU DEVOTEES
SOME HARD NON SUBJECTIVE FACTS: 4 WINS OUT OF 9 MATCHES (DRUM ROLL PLEASE) 44.44%
I.E DIS N DOP!
So what have we “learnt” or should we rather say come to fruition now that the 1st part of Messiah Square Plug In Round Hole’s national coaching tenure has passed
To quote some words of Eshwin Willemse:
Post the Aus away match: “I mus need new glusses, cause i cennot see any gameplen. what is it?”
Post the AB match: “Is der a defensive struchure? I cennot see it”
The team is poorly coached. The Messiah Of Merit has been found terribly wanting:
1. Defensive structures are poor (still persisting with the mickey mouse belief that defense is about individual sizes rather than team cohesion and execution … see stormers with their mini me players)
2. Team lacks attacking cohesion (to be expected when caps are handed out like party packs and players rotated like a revolving door)
5. Poor player management (numerous examples, recent taute leap frogging over JdJ being the latest … ends with a talented player looking like a muppit)
4. Players lack belief and self confidence (good kickers producing mediocre kicking performances)
5. One attacking dimensional play (so simply highlighted by Mallet over the weekend … the Messiah Meyer 1 man bash it up attackin “suprise”)
By comparison,
Jakes record over same period was superior
PdV’s record was superior
And for those devotees who believed its was the players coaching the team (in Pdv’s time), even the player-coaches record was superior … making meyer look even more inept
The irony,
The same ou’s always screaming metocracy and aspiration towards world class standards, are now talking up the “positives” whilst overlooking the cold, hard fl*cking measure of WIN PERCENTAGE
(taccy, briggy and rest of the devotees please take a bow)
The way forward,
Messiah Square Plug In Round Hole will falter till the end of 2013, to be replaced by Brendan Venter in 2014
Alternatively, the “Messiah” continues and we can get ready to compete with Romania in the Emerging Nations Cup in several years time
You couldn’t script this sh*t
8 Oct 2012, 09:39 am
@Dawn-95:
At least they showed a bit of respect and gave us the “Kap hom met die Panga” haka.
First one for the year.
8 Oct 2012, 09:40 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-93: Meyer is really woeful when it comes to utilizing the bench. He seems to radomly take guys off the field, and replacement with no consideration for what exactly he wants to change on the field.
8 Oct 2012, 09:40 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-90:
Yeah i said the same thing on another htread when they were saying defensive coach needs to be sacked.
This AB team was going to do that to the best defensive team around. We attack.
I said that if South Africas attack was upto standard or lets say better, the first 30 mins the Boks could have been up to 20-0 scoreline. That alone can kill the opposition.
Attack…attack,this is the area that needs to be looked at.
8 Oct 2012, 09:41 am
SARU must not be idiots now. Rest the boks for the currie cup and make sure the guys are 100% for the EOYT. No point playing them now in the currie cup.
Look at NZ’s player management. It is great.
Only guys who need game time can play in the currie cup.
8 Oct 2012, 09:42 am
@Jeraldjay-104:
I knew we should’ve used the strikers
8 Oct 2012, 09:42 am
@Dawn-100: Hi Dawn,
Please excuse the ignorance but just what exactly is this Cory fend story I keep seeing?
Saw it all of last week but never got round to asking u!
8 Oct 2012, 09:43 am
The devotees are spinning like tops this morning
Would have, could have, should have … keep that for the braai
Give it a rest
Professional sport has 1 key measure: WIN”s
8 Oct 2012, 09:43 am
@Gumboots-92: @Dawn-95: @WP-Forever-97:
This dear friends, is the summary of Meyer’s tenure thus far (in his own words nogals):”Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer believes the inexperience of his young backline was the difference between them and the All Blacks.”
Excuse, excuses and more excuses……never taking ANY responsibility himself……
Who selected Taute out of position, when he had Juan de Jongh? Who insisted on finding place for an out of form Hougaard on the wing?
Who made van Graan the ‘attack coach’?
Who neglects the backline TOTALLY? (as is evident in our performances this far)
And NO, I’m not a Capetonian on a whinge…..I’m a BOK fan on a whinge.
8 Oct 2012, 09:43 am
@Dawn-100:
He needed to be challenged in the tackle with ball in hand as a prerequisite.
Not his week to see the ball.
8 Oct 2012, 09:44 am
@Sasuke-107:
Do you really think that is going to happen? SA is too provincialistic to allow that. Local trophies are sometimes more important than international pride… Fact! Just read – we have won this and we have won that to get your answer…
8 Oct 2012, 09:44 am
@Hurricane-106:
Hurri can you post that link again for the Cory fend?
Brumbiesboy wants to have a look.
8 Oct 2012, 09:45 am
@Brads-102:
He alienated a large portion of South Africa by dropping Gary Teichmann from the Springbok squad for the 1999 Rugby World Cup.
He then alienated SARFU by accusing them of being greedy ******** for selling tickets at inflated prices. He ended up resigning at the start of a disciplinary hearing claiming he brought the game into disrepute.
8 Oct 2012, 09:47 am
90.
Errm,well….where was mitchells defence in superrugby?
Looked superkak to me just a couple of months ago.
But now we take mitchel and mallets opinion as gospel. I rate them both but it is so easy to be an armchair critic. Lest everyone forget that in mallets second year we got drukked.
8 Oct 2012, 09:47 am
@Jeraldjay-104: They did the same Haka in Argentina.
8 Oct 2012, 09:48 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-111:
Does the rest of the world really care who wins the Currie Cup, yet it is placed at premium in this country. The Bok side should come first, yet it never does… During the dark years the Currie Cup was like the world cup to most and had flavour – now it is a second tear trophy…
8 Oct 2012, 09:49 am
@WP-Forever-115:
He sounds like just the man SA needs.
Stands up to what he believes, and then pulled the plug on his coaching job rather than endure the experience of a Kangaroo Court
8 Oct 2012, 09:49 am
@capetown-103: Not much about that post one can argue with.
As for the weekend’s game, only two things were really clear from that:
1) The ABs do have some progress to make still, with the first 20 minutes they were barely in the game
2) The rest of the game, especially the second half, no Bok combination or coach would have been able to devise a win over the current All Blacks. They were just that dominant and overwhelming. They are definitely in a league of their own at this moment.
Well done All Blacks. You have made a very emphatic point this weekend.
Question is, are they already peaking at this moment? Or will we see an even more powerful team next year?
JC, you do make a point. A complete team is needed. Not a defensive orientated, not an attacking or kicking orientated structure. Everything should be in place. So please don’t post a bunch of articles again about how we should focus on defense, because that is rubbish.
8 Oct 2012, 09:49 am
@rossoneri-117:
Didn’t see the start of the Argie test…..
And I thought the Bokke were special.
8 Oct 2012, 09:50 am
Heyneke alienated a large portion of South Africa by:
“selecting” Siya and then chucking him back to CC rugby one week later, where he got injured.
Racist.
8 Oct 2012, 09:50 am
tear = tier
8 Oct 2012, 09:51 am
@Dawn-114:
Of course
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dsSp1j9kyg&list=LP7NySN0Z5wAg&index=4&feature=plcp
8 Oct 2012, 09:52 am
@Hurricane-124:
There you go Brumbiesboy!
8 Oct 2012, 09:52 am
@BrumbiesBoy-81:
Thank you Bumbie,
Who’s got egg on their face now?
8 Oct 2012, 09:54 am
Hey, some of us hate Meyer, some of us support him.
Doesn’t really matter. He was signed for the next 4 years, and it will cost SARU a lot of money to drop him.
Whether we like it or not, we’re stuck with that coaching team for some time.
The only positive currently is that he and Rassie developed systems to grade each player in SA and allow players to see where they stand and how they can improve. This should have been done YEARS ago!
8 Oct 2012, 09:56 am
@Gumboots-113: I am hoping my man but you are right. I read on supersport that they were considering not playing the boks in the currie cup but they have since did an about turn. There is too much rugby for the boks to still play currie cup.
8 Oct 2012, 09:56 am
106. Hurricane….
Exactly, this is not soccer where good defences keep a clean sheet. Good defences in top rugby i believe should keep a 1-2 try ratio given all the permutations that go into having a good defence, dicipline,etc….
It was a good game with both sides playing well, our finishing wasnt good enough, neither was our goal kicking when it mattered and mental toughness wise we where left wanting. That was the most dissappointing aspect for me, when the tough get going i like to see boks get going. They didn,t, to me the belief didnt look as if it was there and there was a noticeable slump after the kiwis scoredmfrom their only 2 chances of the first half. That is where thencoach is correct in saying that we are much less experienced and notnyet testmatch battled hardened.
8 Oct 2012, 09:57 am
@Bouts-127:
I’m sure most rugby supporters would donate R10 to get him out while we still can…
Bring in a real coach sooner rather than later…
8 Oct 2012, 09:58 am
@cane-126:
Dont disturb him he’s watching the Cory fend
8 Oct 2012, 09:59 am
Will be suicide to play the boks in cc if we want to win any further games thisnyear at all. Some players do need to play some cc but some need a few weeks off badly.
8 Oct 2012, 09:59 am
@Gumboots-118: On a personal level, I see the Currie Cup purely as a trial run/test of squad depth for the upcoming S15. Yes, winnig it might hold ‘lower grade’ bragging rights, but in the grander scheme of things it means Z-E-R-O.
In terms of the WP, only Liebenberg and de Jongh should play and possibly Duane (as he has only had 4 games of rugby since May…and he is still building on his match fitness and rehab)…
But expect to see all of the above including Jean, Bryan, Bekker and Etzebeth in the mix ASAP (because our lineouts are KAK….)
That’s the way we roll……
8 Oct 2012, 10:00 am
@Sasuke-128:
We are a fickle lot mate – we want bragging rights on local trophies, yet international bragging rights are the only with value. Super rugby is great and rightly so has bragging rights – right Bulls? Currie Cup rugby, well the least said the better… Does anyone really care who wins it?
I want to win each international and bag the World Cup. This is what Kiwis put at a premium and that is why they are so successful…
8 Oct 2012, 10:01 am
Heyneke is a racist
8 Oct 2012, 10:02 am
@Dawn-131:
Hi Dawn, are you back at work yet?
8 Oct 2012, 10:02 am
@cane-126:
Well done Cane. Was one of the best performance against us in a while. That crowd in Soweto must have been so intimidating but the players pulled through.
Steve Hansen is a bit of a doos though. I sat next to him during a Super Rugby game a few seasons back and he came across as being very pompous.
That nose touch gesture during Saturdays game was a bit over the top.
8 Oct 2012, 10:03 am
@Dawn-135:
…and hasn’t endeared to anyone – well Pretoria maybe…
8 Oct 2012, 10:03 am
135…erm why?
Will be interesting to see if kolisi even makes the stormers lineup next season with skalk back, is allister a racist them as well.
8 Oct 2012, 10:03 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-133:
Eben worked hard in the lineouts on Sat
8 Oct 2012, 10:03 am
The one big difference between the AB’s and Boks is coaching. I guess it is to be expected when they appoint the best candidate for the job and then they appoint his successor from the assistant coaching staff – the players know what to expect from him and they know him. We, on the other hand, have to contend with political appointments and assistants who are appointed because they are useless so as not to threaten the head coach – they are never in contention for the head coaching position. The end result is that we in reality start with a new philosophy, a new MO and a new game plan every four years. When pressure is on the coach because he does not do well in his first year, he tries all kinds of things and in the end everyone is confused and we are nowhere in terms of building an innings in terms of coaching and game plans. We end up selecting 70 to 80 players in the four year cycle – purely out of desperation. Players are selected who are not on form and who are not completely over their injuries – purely because the coach places all his hope in them to squeeze victories out. It is not sustainable and we end up with egg on our faces at the WC and the baton is passed to the next poor sod who repeats the cycle.
We also have to contend with essentially five different playing philosophies at the five Super franchises and it is difficult to then find one playing style at the Boks with which all players are comfortable.
I do not share HM’s belief that the Boks will be level with the AB’s next year – that level comes with a unified effort by all unions to respect possession, play with intelligence and not convert players into little robots on the field. Even if Meyer can bring the Boks to the AB’s current level in a year’s time, the AB’s are also not the final product yet as they made many mistakes early on in the game on Saturday and they will want to be more clinical.
It is going to take a strong personality, innovation and a skin as thick as PDV’s moustache to make the Boks real contenders for the best team in the world.
8 Oct 2012, 10:04 am
@cane-136:
Still on strike
Aluta continua
If I was at work I wouldn’t be blogging!
8 Oct 2012, 10:05 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-139:
Siya would cruise into the Stormers lineup
For me anyway
Schalk who? Burger? Is he back?
8 Oct 2012, 10:07 am
@Dawn-142:
Are you a SATAWU member?
8 Oct 2012, 10:07 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-139:
And your Heyneke is messing with Elton too.
He was a pitiful figure on Saturday chucked into fray against ABs of all people after 2 minutes against Aus.
The messianic Goose cant seem to keep his bones together
8 Oct 2012, 10:08 am
@Jeraldjay-137:
Thanks.
I think some of you, are being a little harsh on your Team and Meyer.
8 Oct 2012, 10:08 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-132: Jannie Dup and Beast are crying out for a time out. They have been at it non stop since February, plus a hectic travel schedule at the end of the Super rugby competition.
8 Oct 2012, 10:08 am
Well, seeing how deon fourie is going at 6, with skalk coming back, add in a fit elstadt,etc…
We will see.
Just brace yourself though,okay.
8 Oct 2012, 10:09 am
@WP-Forever-144:
Yep
Truck is parked at home.
8 Oct 2012, 10:10 am
@Dawn-131:
hehehe
Cory is my favourite player.
He is suppose to be a laugh on tour as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wWK30ox_LM&feature=BFa&list=LP7NySN0Z5wAg
8 Oct 2012, 10:10 am
@Dawn-142:
“If I was at work I wouldn’t be blogging!…………………………”
Yeah Right.
8 Oct 2012, 10:10 am
i don’t know what it is … can’t put my finger on it … but there is something i dont like about Kolisi …. brussouw is better IMO!
8 Oct 2012, 10:11 am
132, i agree jannie has been putting in shift after shift, very underrated player. Not sure but i think beest was out injured a lot of superrugby but also has not been at his best for a while
8 Oct 2012, 10:12 am
@grant100-152:
You think Amla is kak so your judgement and opinion is a bit dodgy.
8 Oct 2012, 10:12 am
Also the myth that Vermeulen is Bok quality, must be the slowest nr 8 in world, has no hands , and tackles a bit.
8 Oct 2012, 10:13 am
@capebull-155:
Don’t worry Spies will be back soon… The messiahs love child…
8 Oct 2012, 10:14 am
never said amla is kak……. he’s just no T20 player ….
8 Oct 2012, 10:16 am
@capebull-155:
Just when I thought the humour disappeared from this site…very funny
I suppose you prefer a no 8 with no hands, no heart, no vision who can run a bit
8 Oct 2012, 10:16 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-148: Elstadt is never fit (great pity this). Deon Fourie is going to France. Schalk Burger might not make a comeback, and even if he somehow does, his knee is well and truly stuffed. Nizaar Carr – not sure how his knee is healing, but it was a monster injury, and with speed being his forte, the effects might be dreadful. Koster leaving as well……
Thank the rugby gods we have Kolisi!!!!!!!
He is worthy of a starting berth even IF all of the above were fit and available. Don’t be too shocked to see a starting loose trio of Rhodes, Kolisi and Vermeulen for more than a few games.
8 Oct 2012, 10:18 am
Someone mentioned this on the other thread as well yesterday but the way JdV just took away line kicks from Jantjies was shameful to watch, almost like High School yoh!
Don’t know if it was just in the heat of battle but it left a bitter taste in the mouth.
8 Oct 2012, 10:18 am
@Gumboots-156:
Jip…and FDP and M Steyn will be back too.
8 Oct 2012, 10:20 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-139: @Dawn-143:
6. Kolisi
7. Schalk
8. Vermeulen
8 Oct 2012, 10:21 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-153:
Do you think if Morne played at 10 in this game we would have stood a better chance.
Serious question.
8 Oct 2012, 10:21 am
@COUCHCOACH-161:
…he is still on Matfields case as well…Bakkies too… He is trying hard…
8 Oct 2012, 10:22 am
160…kak man
Janties is left footed and gave the ball to the right footed pienaar to kick for touch in the relevent situation.
Devilliers gave the goal kicks all to jantjies and not pienaar.
8 Oct 2012, 10:22 am
2 things changes the game on Saturday …..
1. habana going for the intercept – NZ score
2. Goosen going off – Jantjies not in same league …
8 Oct 2012, 10:22 am
@Jeraldjay-163:
Morne had enough opportunities and his kicking was piss poor… No it wouldn’t have and the AB’s would have scored more tries from wasted extra kicking… the score might have been higher is my view…
8 Oct 2012, 10:23 am
@Sasuke-162: If Schalk cant make it then Elstadt or Rhodes at 7.
8 Oct 2012, 10:23 am
@capebull-155: oh ja what about the myth of spies? hehehe
8 Oct 2012, 10:24 am
@Hurricane-150:
Nice!
8 Oct 2012, 10:24 am
@Gumboots-156:
If Meyer goes down that route (recalling Spies, Steyn & Fourie Du preez of all people) then I’m giving up the little hope I have left.
Now’s the time to cut our losses and move forward with a younger generation seeking to play a more balanced game.
I’ve had it with JdV, he did his bit really it’s time to go, brilliant player in his time but he isn’t going to get any better.
8 Oct 2012, 10:26 am
@cane-151:
Whaat!
It’s true!
8 Oct 2012, 10:26 am
153…not the way he is playing now.
Goosengoing off was a big blow for us i believe all the players were really banking on him not that i do not rate jantjies but mentally, i think we were all banking on the goose. Him going off injured coincided with the boks slumping.
As it is,Steyn remains the only bok flyhalf to have 4 kiwi scalps, only bettered by larkham i believe in thenworld.
8 Oct 2012, 10:27 am
@grant100-166: You forgot another Heyneke’s inept strategy and selections.
8 Oct 2012, 10:28 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-165:
You mean to tell me NZ give the ball the right footed kickers when the angle isn’t perfect for the left footed Carter?
GTFOH
Jantjies has probably kicked for touch down a similiar angle like that a 1000 times on the Highveldt for the Lions.
Sies, JdV.
8 Oct 2012, 10:29 am
@Hurricane-124: @Dawn-125: OK, many thanks, will watch it ASAP and reply soonest.
@cane-126: Oh, all of them!
Shellshocked they are I guess!!!
8 Oct 2012, 10:30 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-173:
Agreed the backs were totally directionless once Goosen went off.
If we’re gonna put all our eggs in the Goose basket then we’re gonna cry krokedil trane in die voorkant.
8 Oct 2012, 10:30 am
@Gumboots-167:
I don’t know Bill.
We cannot play an expansive game with these guys. As yet , we do not have the skill set to do it. Keeping it tight was the only way to beat them on Saturday, with exceptional tactical kicking.
Just my humble opinion.
8 Oct 2012, 10:33 am
171,
Devilliers is done in my opinion. We need a new 12. Spies at 27 is not done and still the best 8 we have when on form. Porra can definately increase our scrumhalf stock for a while as we are genuinely kak at 9. Steyn is a genuine squad option if on form and if the goose cant get his body back together again. Id like to see jantjies play some tests at the end of the year. He takes the ball very flat but does not have the game breaking ability of the goose. His kicking under the circumstances this past weekend was superb.
8 Oct 2012, 10:38 am
175….carter has played like 80 odd tests and is the greatest 10 to have played. Jantjies doesnt even have a full 80 under his belt and comes on with the **** hitting the pan in an all black test match.
Carter was way protected when he first started his career playing 12 and not doing the kicking.
8 Oct 2012, 10:41 am
@wpstormerbok-175: maybe he did it to take pressure off Jantjies. Tough coming in against the All Blacks infront of 70k fans.
8 Oct 2012, 10:42 am
@wpstormerbok-171:
I have lost all faith in the guy. Never really trusted him from his first training squad… He let all know his bias then already… Used the Sharks as his red herring… They fell for it at first but now see the real man…
8 Oct 2012, 10:42 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-179:
Spies hasn’t been on form since 2007 at international level, in fact it’s only the game vs NZ at home that year and the series vs England before the RWC that he touched the ceiling of his potential.
Morne’s proven himself before but he needs the EOYT off as well.
Jantjies lacks pace but can grow into a quality Test flyhalf who can dictacte the game with tactical kicking and has good hands to put players away IF that’s part of the game plan and not just this random running from our flyhalf with the rest of our backs waiting for him to pull a rabbit out of a Kiwi’s but T.
8 Oct 2012, 10:43 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-180: 90 odd but ja i catch your drift. i said something similar above.
8 Oct 2012, 10:44 am
@Brads-44:
huh..?..
@Brads-46:
those are the facts
you can choose to view it any way you like
it still remains facts.
@Black Power-68:
are you a local kiwi,
or do you hail from scumtown proper..?..
@Hurricane-91:
the second half penalty count will make for good reading indeed.
8 Oct 2012, 10:44 am
@wpstormerbok-183:
Spies wouldn’t make any Currie Cup team at present, let alone Super Rugby… He has no heart and size means nothing then…
8 Oct 2012, 10:44 am
Man, this going to be loooong four years. The time has come to bid farewell to some players still being mentioned on this thread – Schalk and Juan Smith – they won’t be back, and they should not be chosen. Jean De Villiers has nothing to offer, ziltch – he must go, the South African backline has never performed with him there, it is no coincidence that they start firing the moment he gets injured (2007 and 2011 WC’s) and that WP start scoring tries the moment he is drafted into the bok team. Du Preez and Matfield talks should end now as well. Leave Bakkies in France.
Four out of nine, I don’t care what the ranking say, thats pathetic. Heyneke seriosly need to reconsider his assistance coaches, Ricardo Laubsher is way out of his depth. Defense coach McFarce should hang his head in shame after Saturdays outing. I don’t really know why a team needs a kicking coach – but clearly Koen’s influence has had negative effect on all kickers in the team – let him go.
What have we learned in the 2012? That our forward dominance approach is outdated, and that it no longer guarantees victory, even if you do get it right on the day. That ball skills, vision and speed is more important than size and strength. William Webb Ellis was tired of soccer, he picked up the ball and ran with it, he didn’t kick a bloody up and under.
Positves? Almost nothing. The only positives is that Heyneke learned a few lessons, the only problem is that it is lessons he should have learned long before his appointment. A good deck player is vital – the more you have, the better – Brussouw and Flouw is vital going forward. A fit Bismarck will help in this regard. He hopefully also learned that playing closer to the gain line is a must, and that asking as many questions of the defense as possible, yields the most answers.
Managing players well is going to be his biggest challange. We have heard that this is Meyers strength, but this is the area where I believe he has underperformed the worst. Keegan Daniel – say no more. I don’t want the mans job for all the money in the world, but if you sign on the dotted line, you better do your job!!
Young team for UK please!!!
8 Oct 2012, 10:45 am
Re One Eyed Bakkies.
Just watched the first half again. Ran out of paper at 31 minute, having noted 17 penalizeable (is that a word?) infringements by the boks.
Funniest was frequent sealing off at the ruck by the bok loosies stepping over then lying on the tackled bok player to prevent the AB’s competing for the ball. Funny because the first time the AB’s did it (at about 28:50) a bokke forward can be heard squeeking “sealing off sir”!!!
Forward passes featured, as did a number of scrum infringements. Eg jdp was boring in badly on woodcock, which messam saw and tried to protect his bud by pushing him back around. Messam was then penalized for his offense (unbinding) but jdp clearly should have been penalized first for dangerous play. Clear example of Rolland refacing only one side.
Let’s just be clear, I am not complaining about the ref. analyse any rugby match (or other contact sport) and you will find countless examples of offenses that could be, but we’re not, penalized. I am also not saying the boks are cheats. This type of stuff is just the norm in rugby, indeed in all contact sports (jersey pulling/holding in soccer anyone?)
I actually don’t doubt that bakkies has correctly identified quite a few penalisable offenses by the AB’s (tho no doubt some are dubious calls by him). I just think of he opened both eyes properly he would see the all blacks are no worse nor better than the boks or any other team.
Correction. I just wish for his and our sake he would actually watch the game rather than spend his whole time looking for of fences by one team. He might start to enjoy rugby.
8 Oct 2012, 10:45 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-179: “Spies at 27 is not done and still the best 8 we have when on form”
Really?
8 Oct 2012, 10:46 am
congrats to the abs and their supporters on the demolition derby.
the boks defense was worful.
the thing that worried me was that when the abs moved quick ball wide, the boks were caught with their pants down every time.
bekker, jdv, taute were terrible.
habs had a shocker.
the back row is simply too big and slow imo. duanne is a greta player but lacks the outright pace needed for test rugby imo, oh how i wish for kanko or even keegan to add a bit of pace and flair to our backrow.
at least the sharks made me smile after the bok blowout
8 Oct 2012, 10:47 am
It’s time ask hard questions after woeful display by the Boks
by Mark Keohane, 08 October 2012
THE only thing that can save the Springboks now, said a mate of mine, is another 20 years of sporting isolation. Having just watched the match tape for a second time, for professional and not sadistic reasons, my mate may just have a point.
Damn, the Boks took a beating.
This was the most brutal of reality checks and to deny the obvious is to ask for more pain.
The Boks were second best — and by some distance. They have been for some time and there should be no comfort in being the best of those competing for numbers two to five.
The referee did not favour the All Blacks. The referee did not cheat the Boks.
The All Blacks did not have an extra man on the field. Statistically, all the advantage was South Africa’s, before the start and in the first quarter of the match.
The Boks were at home, playing in front of 85,000 at altitude, and against an opponent who had already claimed the tournament championship and had reached Johannesburg from New Zealand via Buenos Aires.
The assumption — at least mine — was that the greater hunger for success had to be that of the Boks. Similarly, when judging the enthusiasm of the two teams.
I wrote before the match that one team wanted to win and the other had to win. I got it wrong in writing that the team who had to win were the South Africans.
Our boys wanted to win, but were never good enough. Richie McCaw’s men had to win to make another telling statement to those who refuse to acknowledge their achievements.
Clearly, there is no such thing as a meaningless Test for these All Blacks.
They set their own standards and they were done no favours by the referee, who awarded the All Blacks their first penalty in the 57th minute, by which time they had already scored four tries.
I have seen some very talented All Black teams stumble in South Africa because of a high-risk and all-out-attack approach. I have also seen some very good New Zealand teams run out of puff as altitude proved as decisive as any home-team attitude.
Not in Soweto.
The All Blacks were intelligent in their approach, calculated in when to play for field position and when to trust their defensive patterns, and they were ruthless on attack.
These guys played with no risk in the first 20 minutes, preferring to kick the ball back to the Boks and ask them to think. They hardly played any rugby, with the Boks making two tackles and forcing the New Zealanders to make 28.
Yet on 30 minutes the Boks trailed 12-10 and all theory about home-ground advantage was secondary to the reality of an on-field beating.
I have seen All Black teams batter the Boks in the professional era. I have never seen one that appeared so easy and so emphatic as in the last 40 minutes in Soweto.
To claim a few soft moments made the difference is to claim insanity.
I do not put much store in what coaches and players say after the game. It really is only when they see a recording of the 80 minutes that you get some sense out of them, even though Bok coach, Heyneke Meyer, will know that no scoreboard could do justice to the one-sided beating in Soweto.
For those of who you may challenge my view, go and watch the tape again. Those last 50 minutes especially were torture and the final 10 minutes looked like the winding down of a training session.
There can be no masking the situation and there is also no gain from playing the blame game.
Whether it was Johan Goosen, Elton Jantjies or Patrick Lambie at flyhalf would not have made a difference. It would not have made a difference whether the early kicks went over or not. They would have come back just those few minutes earlier.
Each week I hear a coach, a captain and a player say a few moments cost them the game.
If they acknowledge the problem is more complex, then those few moments will hopefully decrease considerably in the next 12 months.
Questions rightfully have been asked of player performance this season.
Meyer has said the season already has answered which players selected were good enough and which were not, but he needs to ask the same questions of his support staff.
How good are they? How good are the defensive structures, because players do not seem to trust each other or trust the system.
What is going on with the kickers?
Hard questions have to be asked from within.
There is no need to panic because of the defeat, but I’d start to panic as a supporter if there is denial about the nature of the defeat.
8 Oct 2012, 10:49 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-180:
@Sasuke-181:
That was deep in the second half already, by then he would’ve been comfortable enough to do it.
If Jantjies could kick 2 pressure goals before halftime, coming in cold the surely a line kick in conditions that he’s familiar with would’ve been no big deal.
If the leaders in the Bok squad don’t have faith in their youngsters then likewise they (young players) won’t have much faith in them either.
8 Oct 2012, 10:49 am
@capebull-155: Nothing wrong with our forwards. Your dislike for Duane is well documented, and is seen for what it is: Souspiesgrapes
Have no fear, the sooner all the WP players are removed from this joke of a Bok setup, the better.
Spies will soon be back to fall over his own laces, get smashed in the tackle by Dagg, drop balls, run sideways and all in all reduce the Bok team to 14 players. Morne too will be re-installed, along with various other Bulls brekers to save the day……..
8 Oct 2012, 10:50 am
turning inwards:
1. taute is not up to international standard imo. two big games and he has cost us with crucial unforced errors in both, let alone forced errors.
2. elton was only good for kicking (marginally) and not much else on saturday (very poor grasp of the game situation as it was transpiring and shiity passes to his players).
8 Oct 2012, 10:50 am
183….well that is also kak.
Spies was superb in 2009 test season.
He was particularly awesome in the 2nd test vs the lions at loftus. He had a huge 2nd half when the **** was hitting them pan. Took us over the advantage line all the time.
8 Oct 2012, 10:51 am
i really felt for lambie and jantjies on sat.
lambie was thrown in with no gametime in a lost cause and his lack of gametime showed.
connie has the potential to be a bok great but i think meyer made a mistake by not having the experience of morne on the bench and blooding connie on the eoyt instead.
bekker had a good game against the aussies but *** he is lazy or simply injured/ past it.
thankfully we can all agree frans is our best bet at 12 moving forward.
8 Oct 2012, 10:54 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-194: elton cannot be blamed for habana constantly trying to cut inside on defense and attack.
habs had a mare.
zane was actually quite good imo. the mistakes on defense leading to tries were commited long before the abs got close to him.
8 Oct 2012, 10:56 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-195: 2009 was his last recorded good game…..You do fuckingrealise we are fast on the way to 2013?
8 Oct 2012, 10:56 am
how good was JPP for the sharks?
sheesh the oke is in the form of his life even after coming back from a long lay off.
cant wait to have him back in the boks.
8 Oct 2012, 10:57 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-198: duanne is a carthorse ruckles.
always had my doubts but its clear the speed of our backrow simply is not up to standard.
kanko made the biggest mistake of his young life going to the land of the rising sun imo.
8 Oct 2012, 10:57 am
HM got the job four too late. Had he been given the job in 2008, as he should’ve… He would’ve had the players he needed to execute his game plan to perfection. They would have been fresh from winning the WC (with most of them also having won SR the previous year), so confidence would’ve been high, plus they would’ve been playing under a coach they respected and trusted. We would probably have dominated world rugby for the next two years at least… Of cause Brussow, JdJ (political pressure and the unavailability of WO might’ve have forced his selection) and Keegan Daniel, and others that might be deemed not big enough, would only have made their debuts this year.
Enter 2012, after we had been knocked out by Aus in the WC 1/4, the first black coach is hired (20 years after re-admission). He’d have been in charge of the baby boks for 7 years inherited a team with players he’d coached to world champs (I believe he would’ve won at least one more). With the likes of Bismarck, Adriaan Strauss, Chilli, JPP, JdJ, EJ, Lambie, Kolisi, Etsebeth, Pienaar, Hougaard, Keegan Daniel, Morne Steyn, Spies, Coenie, Taute, Mapoe, Goosen…. Favouring a more expansive approach, with players who are more likely to be receptive to this kinda approach. Maybe SA rugby wouldn’t be the joke it is today!
8 Oct 2012, 10:59 am
@Gumboots-182:
It’s shocking to think that changes in the Bok squad only came about after the media and public pressure and avoidable losses.
Imagine if we all just stood by and watched Meyer do as he pleased with the team?
J. Potgieter at 7
Spies at 8 if it wasn’t for injury
Morne at 10
JJ Engelbrecht
Wynand Olivier
And now J Taute in the centres, not to mention the players he did NOT choose.
Each time we’ve given Heyneke the benefit of doubt with regards to his weird selections but non of them have worked out.
8 Oct 2012, 11:02 am
meyer is starting to look as thick as a plank imo.
his wild eyed interviews have the look of a madman who is defiantly trying to justify his lack of nous.
he needs to relax a little, we will give him time but he must end this fascination with trying to moer the opposition and select players with a bit more brain power.
how the hell can our dumb f u k forwards keep on trying a pick and drive on the abs line when the abs are a player down?
and how thick is dood poe s coenie. whattacunt he is giving away penalties like candy at halloweeen after an amazingly disciplined bok performance?
he must fukkoff.
8 Oct 2012, 11:03 am
Some huge goddamn denialists in this environment
Who these bull bevok behemoths still punting Spies and M. Steyn and FdP and H. Meyer.. Who are these imbeciles.. are they as extinct as dinosaurs yet because strues njannies they are heading that way..
Anyone still punting Pierre Spies or Morne Steyn or Fourie du Preez as the Boks saviours after the last spate of goddamn re awakening by this numb skull idiot Heyneke Meyer are even thicker than he is.. and that is SOME serious kinda thickness.. make no mistake.
This Meyer moron is busy annihilating some decent talent.. he is frittering away the little bit of decent talent shining through and he is DECIMATING any hopes of ever coming out of this downward spiral of no return..
He has destroyed Hougaard as a scrumhalf.. he has given Jantjies, Lambie, De Jongh and a few others NO HOPE of ever reaching their true bok potential.. he has misused the likes of Taute and a few more in his attempt at blustering his way out of the dead end he finds his empty brain dead deficiency staring him in his brainless face.
The ONLY thing open to SARU at this stage is cut your damn losses with this clown and move the fck on because this moron is going nowhere in any hurry he is wringing the last vestiges of idiocy out of his bullbevok backside and going DOWN.. and taking the rest of the rugby country with him.. make no mistake.. this is where this dunce is heading DOWNHILL.. not Up.
8 Oct 2012, 11:04 am
@mxhosa-201: nice analysis mate.
pretty incisive imo.
8 Oct 2012, 11:04 am
@Gumboots-182:
Well we did tell them…..They chose to ignore us…….
8 Oct 2012, 11:05 am
@Gumboots-96: best post ever
8 Oct 2012, 11:07 am
@rangerman-203: You only noticing this sh y te now? If his haphazard replacement strategy on Saturday didn’t convince even the most loyal Bok fan that he is a few tablets short of an overdose, then I don’t know what will?
Time for everyone to stop blaming individual players for losses, it honestly is NOT their fault.
8 Oct 2012, 11:07 am
@Transformation-191:
Maybe the game WAS played in Soweto
8 Oct 2012, 11:11 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-193: who will be the incumbent 8 next year, duane of kanko?
8 Oct 2012, 11:11 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-208: no ruckles, there is no excuse for players falling off tackles like ours did on sat.
or shooting up out of the line like habs did.
8 Oct 2012, 11:12 am
@Transformation-210: kanko for me.
everytime.
he has the pace duanne lacks imo.
8 Oct 2012, 11:13 am
@KiaKahaNZ-207:
Kihahahaha!
How’s the hangover?
8 Oct 2012, 11:14 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-208:
A few are still blaming players for the coach’s incompetence. It doesn’t really matter who is chooses the results will be the same. Britney would add to the laughs though… His ballerina prance is missed…
8 Oct 2012, 11:14 am
@KiaKahaNZ-207:
You guys are light years ahead of the chasing pack mate… Well done and deserved too…
8 Oct 2012, 11:16 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-208:
What has happened to your three Shark friends? Gone with the wind???
8 Oct 2012, 11:16 am
@rangerman-203:
@ “meyer is starting to look as thick as a plank imo.”
8 Oct 2012, 11:20 am
@Transformation-217: well he is.
and i am actually being nice.
8 Oct 2012, 11:21 am
@Dawn-213: hi Dawn, you well? Im still tired, twas a big night and finished with the sun rising, Oh the head, yeah, fuzzy.
However, as satisfying as the win was, a little disappointed the minority on here – cant be helped I guess, and is always to be expected
Does Bakkies know the laws>? Someone needs to enlighten him on the FULL rights of the tackler
8 Oct 2012, 11:21 am
@wpstormerbok-202: What a load of rubbish , Meyer has picked all the so called stars , Bekker, Vermeulen, JdV, Goosen , we still lost by far .
Maybe you should open your eyes and realise that some players like Vermeulen is simply to slow, no hands and nothing special.
8 Oct 2012, 11:22 am
@Gumboots-215: thanks mate, nice one.
You guys will be back, youre too proud not to be
8 Oct 2012, 11:23 am
@capebull-220: agreed he is too slow but other than that he is an awesome player.
he will do well on the eoyt mark my words.
but in a free flowing pacy game he is lost.
8 Oct 2012, 11:23 am
@mxhosa-201: another thing that seems to elude people’s minds is that most of the 2007 world cup winning team were woefully off-form – regardless of whether it was meyer or divvy coaching them…
8 Oct 2012, 11:23 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-208: Slow/Knock on Vermeulens fault , please come back Spies , or is vermeulen still getting fit , he looks to get slower.
8 Oct 2012, 11:24 am
@Transformation-210: Are you serious about Vermeulen, it should rather be Spies or Kanko ?
8 Oct 2012, 11:25 am
@capebull-155: AGREED.You will be
crucified.I really think that a composite team would have only
one Bok player.Eben.E.And then only as a sub. Louw plays same role as McCaw
despite having different numbers on their jersies.
No debate here.
8 Oct 2012, 11:25 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-208: No More Guppy Love
According to an article in Beeld, Plumtree has again spoken out at the way players like hooker Craig Burden and wing Lwazi Mvovo have been withdrawn from the Currie Cup, for months on end, only to carry tackle bags with the Bok side and see no international game time whatsoever. “That’s the stupid thing about keeping 30 players in the Bok camp during a test week,” Plumtree told the Afrikaans daily. “It makes no sense and will have to change, because keeping eight players out of Currie Cup rugby doesn’t work . There’s no logical reason for that and it wasn’t done that way in the past.
“Lwazi Mvovo and Craig Burden have been done a disservice and what’s more, we’re now heading into a crucial phase of the Currie Cup.”
8 Oct 2012, 11:28 am
@Transformation-227: well it is quite stupid man management.
did you see how awful liebenbergs lineout throwing was?
the oke is so k u u u u u u u u uk.
8 Oct 2012, 11:29 am
@Gumboots-216: I think they will rise shortly
It seems the fashionable thing to do now…is blame all the WP players for the Bok’s woes 
Ok, Taute, Jantjies and Coenie also taking a fair amount of beating….
No mention of the MIA Willem Alberts, the woefully out of form Hougaard, the utterly average Pienaar, the MIA Lambie when he came on…. ***classic***
Bekker, Vermeulen, de Villiers and Habana are the sole reason the Boks are kak – in case you weren’t aware of this
. Personally, I would be delighted if all the WP boys were dropped from this shameful excuse for a Bok group.
What is ridiculous, is how players are being blamed, when the coach is the real joke.
8 Oct 2012, 11:30 am
@Transformation-210:
Arno Botha, if the bulls have the balls to drop Spies.
8 Oct 2012, 11:30 am
@COUCHCOACH-158: Would prefer a Kieran Read frankly.
Failing him,Daniel or Kankowski
8 Oct 2012, 11:31 am
@KiaKahaNZ-219:
I’m OK, although I don’t do Mondays.
8 Oct 2012, 11:31 am
@Transformation-210: None of the above. Spies will get the jersey back. Kanko, eish man…..a few good games in the S15, and he is now a world beater? Betya he still fades in a tight physical contest. But I would still take him over Spies……
Who knows what Meyer wants……I just want all the WP players OUT, for their own sanity.
8 Oct 2012, 11:32 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-229: i think the whole team has taken a beating ruckles.
but jdv is clearly past it.
duanne is slow and so is alberts and so is flo.
bekker was terrible. he doesnt tackle and is about the longest yard of wet tripe i have ever seen masquerading as a bok lock.
habs was sh it.
end of.
8 Oct 2012, 11:32 am
@Transformation-223:
Meyer would’ve coached them back to form, like he did with Habana, lol.
8 Oct 2012, 11:33 am
@mxhosa-230: That’s the name
Botha…. But the Bulls are not going to drop Spies my friend – forget it. I think they believe God will punish with with thunder and lightning if Spies is scorned.
8 Oct 2012, 11:34 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-233: that “tight physical contest” thing is such a load of balls.
duanne fades in anything apporaoching a running game.
8 Oct 2012, 11:36 am
@rangerman-234: Give me their replacements? Seriously. On form, drop me your Bok team. Leave out overseas players, injured players etc – your EOYT Bok team.
8 Oct 2012, 11:36 am
@rangerman-234:
We get the message
All WP players were horseshit
8 Oct 2012, 11:37 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-238:
Gonna be Sharkies!
8 Oct 2012, 11:37 am
@rangerman-237: EOYT team please. In NH conditions……when the running game might clearly not be on.
8 Oct 2012, 11:39 am
@Dawn-240: Sharkies, Lions and Cheetahs to play in the NH conditions indeed. I’m waiting for the team…….
Slow pitches etc etc.
8 Oct 2012, 11:40 am
@rangerman-211: Kanko has greater speed,can take lineout ball,has a far superior skills set and vision.and adds as much grunt asDV Also offloads well.
Bring on the hammer and nails.
8 Oct 2012, 11:41 am
@rangerman-197:
agreed on habana,
but if asked to choose between the two based on saturdays performance…
i would take goosen with a swollen ankle over elton atm.
8 Oct 2012, 11:45 am
@ryecatcher-243: Kanko has also had more than 6 years to make the step up to the Boks, and has been given numerous opportunities that he has failed to take.
Yes, he was in sublime form in the S15……but he wasn’t even 1st choice for the Sharks?
This is what I don’t get, from the Sharkies……Lambie punted at 10, Kanko punted as starting 8 – when Plumtree clearly felt otherwise, and that in a provincial tournament? Should you fellows not questioning your provincial coaches before you insist on these players starting for the Boks?
Serious question.
8 Oct 2012, 11:46 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-238:
firstly i would have JdJ at 12 (til frans gets back then he can go back to the bench) and keep taute on at 13.
i would play keegs at 8 any day, any time, any opposition. we have flo to scavenge and willem to carry the ball up but we lack pace off the back of the scrum/maul and in general cover defense.
juandre kruger ahead of bekker. etsebeth can stay but needs to up his workrate or get fitter imo.
habs can stay, his poor game was just that, a poor game.
JPP on the opther wing will make a big difference imo.
hows that?
8 Oct 2012, 11:49 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as og food-241: Yes I would have DV in NH conditions,where weather
would compensate for his lack of pace.A la Danie Rossouw.
As for Kankos “A few good games”Deanne was not exactly brilliant.
Like you I do not like HM.Feel that he succumbs to media pressure.
8 Oct 2012, 11:50 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-241: as i said, duanne will probably do fine on the eoyt but he is too slow for a fast paced game especially in a loose trio that has no real pace to speak of.
you think i am being spiteful towards duanne?
i am not, its simply my observation. use it, dont use it.
@ryecatcher-243: haha, this will get some people hot and bothered.
the perception that kanko is soft is laughable. he was unreal after a long injury break in this years s15 and ran our lineouts. he made a mistake going to japland for sure.
8 Oct 2012, 11:50 am
@KiaKahaNZ-219:
your filthy lot wouldn’t know what the ‘laws’ of the game are even if i printed out 350
pdf copies of the laws, regulations and all ammendments, stuffed them all into a
bodybag, scribbled all over the bodybag in big bold red ink: ‘LAWS, REGULATIONS
AND AMMENDMENTS OF THE GAME’ and dropped them on your flippin heads one
by flippin one…..
8 Oct 2012, 11:51 am
@ryecatcher-247: agreed, like danie duanne has value in a horses for courses selection scenario.
but his lack of pace will increasingly be shown up and its not like he is getting younger.
8 Oct 2012, 11:52 am
laws of the game…
what a farken larf
8 Oct 2012, 11:57 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-245: Not punting anyone(Well maybe Kanko) Read my reply
post 247.Please.DV was invisible during test.Maybe one run,one link.
Do not agree that Lambie should be there,nor Willem A lberts for that
matter Nor Ruan Pienaar – Hope that puts to bed the bias debate. DV overhyped.Oh for a Gary Teichman. .DV overhyped.
8 Oct 2012, 11:58 am
And maybe not even Beast.
8 Oct 2012, 11:59 am
Ideally this would be my backline in the EOYT:
15 Taute
14 Habana
13 Pietersen
12 De Jongh
11 Basson
10 Jantjies
09 Hougaard
20 Pienaar
21 Lambie
22 Mapoe
but that’s just too many quotas for the average saffa fans and coaches…
8 Oct 2012, 12:02 pm
@rangerman-246: JPP’s return will be huge. Daniel will not be selected for the Boks again, however sad, due to that piggyback on the Argie maul so I wouldn’t tout him any further.
Kanko isn’t here, so can’t even be mentioned until next year.
EOYT – it will be Duane with Arno Botha hopefully covering.
Still not convinced that Alberts is a starter – to me he is a 30 min off the bench player.
I would still have Heinrich over Flo (speed), but he is out for now….
In general, Habs has been our best backline player.
Taute is not a 13, and should either play 15 or nothing IMHO.
Lambie and Jantjies should both be given a shot at 10 on the EOYT.
Juandre Kruger is less physical than Bekker, and they are both much of a muchness for me – either or, they are both average at best.
Jean Div played his last test for the Boks on Saturday.
Don’t blame the players…….blame the coach.
8 Oct 2012, 12:02 pm
@rangerman-222: He tackles well and steals the occasional ball on ground , he has no hands, imagine what would happen if he had to kick the ball. Take Read , he was everywhere, he ran and he can pass.
Vermeulen never falls back to cover the back , cross cover is also part of his job but he’s to slow.
Maybe in Europe he’s lack of pace will not be as preveland.
He did not once pick up the ball behind the scrum, did you see the try Karemaker scored ?
No he’s average.
8 Oct 2012, 12:02 pm
@ryecatcher-252:
Fat Albert is not quite the force in Internationals as he is at S15 level.
8 Oct 2012, 12:03 pm
Now completed my review of the second half. Plenty of infringements spotted plus more incorrect calls by ref, but can’t be bothered getting off couch to get more paper. Perhaps when beer runs out?
Final conclusion – the boks looked tired and bewildered after the third AB try. Meyer’s substitutions created confusion, and there was no-one obviously leading from the front or rallying the players.
I was left to wonder whether the all blacks played a “rope a dope” strategy, encouraging the boks to attack them in the first half expecting the boks (some of whom have had a long season, and others who have just come back from injury) to run out of steam as obviously happened. If so – cunning.
It would be craziness to send the frontline players back to the curry cup. You’ve got to get back to stringing multiple wins together. The NH is the perfect place to reset your standards, and to bond the team around success. Too often the boks have been a shambles on these tours, being beaten by teams that have no right in h@ll to claim a bok scalp. I would love to see the boks, Aussies and AB’s nil the NH this eoyt
8 Oct 2012, 12:03 pm
@mxhosa-254: Now THAT’S a potential kickass backline. But you’re correct – not on Meyer’s watch.
@ryecatcher-252: Fair enough.
8 Oct 2012, 12:04 pm
@cane-257: Agree, he is a 30 min player at best.
8 Oct 2012, 12:05 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-255: i agree on most of what you say and have echoed it above.
if kanko was here he would have got the nod imo.
as for keegs, whattawaste. the guy is one of south africas most skilful players and has a rugby brain second to none imo.
he is a typically wasted south african talent.
8 Oct 2012, 12:06 pm
Whats the latest on Goosens knee injury?
Taute’s (could be someone else) failure to kick for touch had terrible repercussions.
1. Whitelock scored.
2. Changed the momentum of the game completely was 10-0 at that stage.
3. Caused Goosens injury because of the tackle on Whitelock.
8 Oct 2012, 12:07 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-236: Spies is much better than Knock onn Vermeulen,
8 Oct 2012, 12:08 pm
@cane-257: Good afternoon pal.
Still hurting.Imagine you guys are basking in reflected glory of the
bes t team I have seen.Dont usually gush like this.Certainly not about
opposition teams.
8 Oct 2012, 12:09 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-260: Sorry to go on about this.Kanko was out injured
for most the season.Dont think Plum ignored him.
8 Oct 2012, 12:11 pm
@ jeralday 262: wasn’t goosen already down in back play, I think he got up from being attended to by the physionto attempt that tackle on whitelock. Gutsy, but I think the damage was already done?
8 Oct 2012, 12:13 pm
@capebull-263: In the knock on stakes, Pierre Spies has NO equal; he has terrible hands. He might be fast enough to cover in defence, but when he gets there the oppo player run straight over him, through him or around him, leaving Spies clutching to a piece of material. No my friend, that blow up doll is not an international player’s backside.
Please prove me wrong
8 Oct 2012, 12:14 pm
@ryecatcher-265: Yes he was, apologies.
8 Oct 2012, 12:14 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-255:
@ “Daniel will not be selected for the Boks again, however sad, due to that piggyback on the Argie maul so I wouldn’t tout him any further.” the horrors of newlands
8 Oct 2012, 12:15 pm
@ryecatcher-265: correct.
and when he came back he played 8 and keegs played 6.
and our lineout was a thing of beauty.
8 Oct 2012, 12:16 pm
@ Bakkies….considering the ref did not award the first All Black penalty until the 58th minute…you may have a
point on the rules. But then by that time, we had scored 4 tries. So…..go wipe your backside with your rule book. Or even better give a copy of the rules to blitzbok so he too can wipe his backside, that way the both of you can be playing the same game with the same set of rules and be world champs at it.
8 Oct 2012, 12:18 pm
@Transformation-269: funnily enough we won at newlands and then keegs made a wonderful turnover in an argie maul in mendoza when he was introduced.
what a waste.
8 Oct 2012, 12:18 pm
@Hurricane-124: @Dawn-125: My goodness there’re some great ones there, I think I know what you’re on about now!
Oh, and some brilliant tries as well!
Thanks
P.S. Coach Jake, are you thinking what I’m thinking?
8 Oct 2012, 12:18 pm
@corporal punishment-266:
Think he buggered his knee during that attempted tackle. The injury could have happen before. I’m not 100% sure.
But in his 1st full season of proper rugga his had 2 concussions, a shoulder injury, which kept him out for a while and now this knee injury.
His got a truck load of talent and composure to compete at the highest level but he appears to be very brittle, which is a major concern.
8 Oct 2012, 12:18 pm
@Jeraldjay-262: did you see that as dagg fielded the ball from the taute clearance from our goal-line there were FOUR 3 all blacks lined up across the field from izzy? the all blacks have worked out how to nullify our skop & pray gameplan and i can tell you the rest of the world will cotton on to it.
8 Oct 2012, 12:19 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-267: You are clthing at straws , Spies ‘ was weak in tackle , he worked on that , Vermeulen is just to slow, are you serious about liking Vermeulen , surely you are joking
8 Oct 2012, 12:21 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-268: Got to respect you.You are a gracious blogger.
8 Oct 2012, 12:22 pm
@Jeraldjay-274: Perhaps he is like Johnny wilkinson, too committed in the tackle? If you watch carter, he rarely attempts offensive tackles. He is a good tackler, but generally relies on his loosies to make the big hits.
8 Oct 2012, 12:23 pm
@capebull-276: Don’t take my word for it. Ask anyone other than the Brig, Taccy, yourself and other rabid Bull’s fans what their opinion is on Spies. In fact, ask respected journalists from all over the globe……then report back.
I would take Vermeulen on one leg, blind and high on crack before I would see Spies in a Bok jersey every again. The End.
If not Duane, young Arno Botha is the future……….that’s if your Bulls coaches have the b @lls to drop the invisible man.
8 Oct 2012, 12:24 pm
@ryecatcher-277: Not always
8 Oct 2012, 12:24 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-268: Wot was the piggy back? I missed that!
8 Oct 2012, 12:25 pm
@Transformation-275:
Transie they thrive on broken play and if the kicks aren’t accurate the chasers, normally wings are out of their defense lines.
When they move the ball through the hands across the field we have NO answer.
And by the way, I also think Aaron Smith is no average scrumhalf.
8 Oct 2012, 12:26 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-255:
Speed? Brussouw? You cannot be serious…you must have been joking.
Louw annihilated the Aussie loosies and he had McCaw’s number on Saturday. Put your biased spectacles away and see the wood for the trees please
8 Oct 2012, 12:26 pm
@rangerman-272: The only Bok look in Daniel will ever get again, is if a fellow like Mallet coaches the Boks. Until then, his name won’t even be mentioned in selection meetings.
That was evident after Arno Botha was called up.
8 Oct 2012, 12:31 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-245: Lets see some stats:
Spies vs England vs Vermeulen and AB’s\
Tackles made
V= 7 Sp = 6
Rucks and Mauls
V 2 Sp 10
Runs
V 2m Sp 65m
Turn over
V =1 Sp 0
8 Oct 2012, 12:31 pm
@COUCHCOACH-283: Errm.Please remind me of the score.In the 2,nd half we had Zero ball from the
loosies,until 4 tries had been scor ed against us.
8 Oct 2012, 12:34 pm
@COUCHCOACH-283: Disagree. Mccaw doesn’t really play a fetcher role any more. He plays more like a SA no7, playing more of a tight role.
The fetcher role in the AB’s is simply the job of the first or second tackler, if they keep their feet. The all black backs turn over as much ball as mccaw theses days (tho hore was probably leading this stat on Saturday).
Yes, low won some great turnovers/penalties, but he wasn’t as influential overall as mccaw (who is a vital link along with the other loosies between the forwards and the backs).
8 Oct 2012, 12:34 pm
@COUCHCOACH-283: I am a Stormer fan, and I wouldn’t mind Flo captaining the Boks (and the Stormers if he ever came back)
Between the 2 of them though, I prefer Heinrich as a deck player, and IMHO he is faster. Louw has been epic, and is hitting the same heights he did for the Stormers 2 seasons back, and with an extended run in the Bok jersey he could be the answer to all our prayers, and I will forget all about Heinrich – but because he has been neglected, I would still like to see a fully fit Heinrich given another crack.
I don’t think my opinion is biased, and I am looking at this wearing Bok spectacles.
8 Oct 2012, 12:36 pm
@ryecatcher-286: Ha ha, agreed!
8 Oct 2012, 12:36 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-195:
Its not a PAN but a FAN…and Spies had had his time and has been found wanting FOR YEARS!!!! One good half in 2009 doe snot equate to being a Springbok in 2012 FFS are all BLouBull supporters as doff!?1?!?!?!?
8 Oct 2012, 12:37 pm
@capebull-285: You are fooling yourself with those stats. They lie.
As I said, don’t ask me or take my word for the opinion on Spies.
Ask OTHERS, if you feel I am being too harsh on the useless eejit.
(Stats tell you nothing, apart from what you want to read…..taken out of context – they are worthless)
Do you seriously rate Spies as the best 8 in the country? And if so – are you his brother or his USN supplier?
8 Oct 2012, 12:37 pm
doe snot, hehehe… does not
8 Oct 2012, 12:37 pm
Ps I do think Lou’s has been very good. But he ain’t mccaw just yet.
8 Oct 2012, 12:38 pm
@capebull-263:
Dude, if you believe that, then you must have your head read and soon. I agree that Vermeulen is not the best no 8 we have seen in this country and to add to that, he is not even at his best after his injury. But to even contemplate that Spies offers anything other than running into the picture every now and again is absolutely ridiculous. He offers nothing – absolutely nothing. He deliberately avoids contact, his workrate is pathetic and his ball carries are forgettable. He is the worst no 8 when it comes to picking up at the base of the scrum. PULL THE OTHER ONE MATE
8 Oct 2012, 12:38 pm
@Golden Boy-290: Yes they are it seems. This @Capebull fellow is even more rabid in his support for Spies…..quite sad actually.
8 Oct 2012, 12:40 pm
@corporal punishment-281:
He got carried on the backs of an Argentina maul and got penalised for it. Meyer dropped Keagan after that Test and the Heyneke faithful said it was because of the embarrasment caused by that incident.
8 Oct 2012, 12:40 pm
@COUCHCOACH-294: I vote for spies back to bok no8, preferably as captain, and with a guantee he will hold that role until wc2019
8 Oct 2012, 12:42 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-295: Oh dear! Odd thing for the national coach to say in public!!
8 Oct 2012, 12:44 pm
@wpstormerbok-296: haha, that incident was nowhere near as bad as philip burger being turned into a bicep curl-assist by the sharks on sat
8 Oct 2012, 12:45 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-295:
And what the hell is this fascination with STATS!?!?!?!?!? According to STATS, Spies is the best 8 we have ever had. But ask any supporter (those without the bull-tinted glasses) and they will tell you the exact opposite.
STATS should be used as one of a set of tools, but it seems that the current management has this unhealthy obsession with it to the detriment of anything else.
8 Oct 2012, 12:46 pm
Frist Test vs England
Spies Tackles
9
Runs
101m
Rucks/Mauls
17
Turnover
1
8 Oct 2012, 12:46 pm
@corporal punishment-298:
Ohdearestfuckno. Our friends from Pretoria would love this. For some reason they honestly believe the man is world class.
Spies is however Frankenstein’s (Meyer’s) monster and I have no doubt the ‘finest athlete Meyer has ever coached’ will be back in the Bok fold to shame us for the rest of Meyer’s tenure.
(I just vomited in my mouth…..)
8 Oct 2012, 12:47 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-295:
He needs a name change…CapeBullshit sounds appropriate.
8 Oct 2012, 12:48 pm
@Golden Boy-300: When these Bulls fellows start pulling up Spies’s gym stats, you know the water is dirty
(filthyfuckingdirty)
8 Oct 2012, 12:48 pm
@capebull-285:
Point Proven!!!! This is all the Bulls can drag up. Meaninglessfuchingstats.
8 Oct 2012, 12:49 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-295: Why do you think the stats lie ? It takes your perceptions out the way , maybe thats the real problem for you to admit you are wrong.
8 Oct 2012, 12:51 pm
@capebull-306: I have asked you before…..ignore my anti-Spies crusade. Ask other people……
8 Oct 2012, 12:51 pm
@capebull-285:
I can believe that Spies hits more rucks and mauls – let me rephrase – I can believe that Spies JOINS more rucks and mauls than Vermeulen. He cannot hit a ding in a wet ****. He joins the rucks and mauls hands first while looking over the maul where to go next to avoid contact. Watch a match with a real rugby analyst who records not how many times a player joins rucks/mauls, but how many times he effectively joins them. Spies gets 0 on more than one occasion.
@corporal punishment-287: Whatever – Louw was freaking awesome against the best loosie combo. He tackled like a demon, won turnovers and carried with aplomb. He nullified McCaws incessant unpunished indescretions on the ball – removed his sneaky little mits off the ball on more than one occasion to ensure quick ball and removed him off the tackled player over and over.
@ryecatcher-286: Listen here you rogvreter – the lack of turnover ball can be laid squarely on the shoulders of the tight 5 who were all standing in the backline rather than commit to the rucks and mauls. Flo and Vermeulen were fighting a lone battle on the ground.
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-288: My apologies for flying off the handle and accusing you for being biased. Fact is that since the law alterations in ’09 Brussouw’s ilk has been placed at a huge disadvantage. There is no place for an out-and-out fetcher any more. Loose forwards have to be good ball carriers, strong defenders and able line-out jumpers. Flo and Brussouw will not be a good combo.
8 Oct 2012, 12:52 pm
@capebull-301:
101 meters in 9 runs the stats say. My question to that is where on the field was he when he made all these meters? On the WING you say?!?!?!?
Well whatthefuck was he doing there!??!?!?!? Why was he not performing his PRIMARY function?!?!?!?!
Your stats are about as useful shitstain.
8 Oct 2012, 12:52 pm
@capebull-301:
Does running across the field count as running metres?
8 Oct 2012, 12:53 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-302: Tbh, spies performances against the abs in 2009 make Ab supporters pretty nervous when facing him. So I am quite happy he is out of the side (from an all black perspective it is like habana – he ain’t the player he was in 09 but it still gives me the sh!ts every time he tries to intercept us).
My main reason for liking the idea of havi g him in the team is it drives 90% of saffers bonkers, and that makes any worry come game day worthwhile
8 Oct 2012, 12:53 pm
@Golden Boy-303: I did not create the stats , If you don’t like them ask Vermeulen to do more.
http://www.rugbystats.com.au , best is ,its not even a Bulls website
8 Oct 2012, 12:54 pm
@rangerman-299: lol
8 Oct 2012, 12:55 pm
@COUCHCOACH-310: It does not change the fact that Vermeulen ran 2m , sideways , back wards whatever 2m
8 Oct 2012, 12:55 pm
@COUCHCOACH-310:
8 Oct 2012, 12:57 pm
@COUCHCOACH-308: I would just like to see Meyer give Heinrich another shot in the Bok jersey when he is fit, that’s all. I know he hasn’t been as effective in recent times, post law changes, but I do believe he still has lots to offer (the 1st half of the Cheetahs vs Sharks game in Durban when he single handedly demolished the Sharks for 40 minutes, tells me he might just have something to offer).
No issues with Louw keeping the jersey at all though.
the @Golden Boy-309: What the stats don’t say, is that 101 metres was the distance from the tunnel to the field. Then back for halftime, then out again.
Or, could be sideways running?
8 Oct 2012, 12:57 pm
@COUCHCOACH-308: riogvreter???
8 Oct 2012, 12:57 pm
@rangerman-299:
In the end no one is off limits on a rugby field, even the best get smashed and man handled.
8 Oct 2012, 12:58 pm
@wpstormerbok-318: agreed.
8 Oct 2012, 12:59 pm
@COUCHCOACH-308: Spring is here and you are in love.May you & DV have a long and happy relationship.
8 Oct 2012, 12:59 pm
@Golden Boy-309:
70 of those Meters were in the 3rd Test vs England when Spies picked the ball up at the 1 side of the field and crabbed almost completely toward the opposite part of the field.
8 Oct 2012, 13:01 pm
@corporal punishment-311: You fellows would love Spies standing off at 8 watching the game progress whilst doing absoultelyfuckingnothing.
He gets Bok fans riled up, because he has failed to deliver on ANY of his early promise. The most hyped player in Bok history…………
Flattered to deceive, but managed to get 50 caps riding the hype wave.
8 Oct 2012, 13:03 pm
@capebull-312:
My point still stands that STATS alone does not tell the whole story. Therefore pulling it up and using it as a yardstick means absolutely nothing. Surely you should be able to see that? Lets put it this way. Do you think that Spies is one of the top 8′s in world rugby? Because according to those STATS he certainly is.
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-316:
HEHEHE…could be that he was running AWAY from contact?
8 Oct 2012, 13:03 pm
@ryecatcher-264:
It is a moment in time Ryeman.
Everthing has a price, even success.
The higher you climb,
the bigger the fall.
BWTF……………………………..we may as well enjoy the moment.
8 Oct 2012, 13:08 pm
@Golden Boy-323:
Could be!!! Spies does move fastest when there is the threat of contact….
8 Oct 2012, 13:09 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-322:
I remember about 18 months ago,
reading an Article/Interview here on Keo,
where Spies, referred to himself as, “The pre-eminent #8 in World Rugby”.
8 Oct 2012, 13:10 pm
the argument for and against spies is premature.
he is not available and should play s15 after his injury before his selection is even considered and debated so i really think its just a bit of a b it ch session.
wake up people.
8 Oct 2012, 13:11 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-21: Why do you torture yourself by watching the replay? Spend two hours outside instead, play some sport, or spend some time with your family or friends. The Boks were up 9-0 on the penalty count at one point and finished the game down 4 tries to 1. Dagg was carded moments after a blatant Bok forward pass that the ref ignored. Do you really think the Boks could have won that game?
You would enjoy rugby more if you just accept that right now, the ABs are better than the Boks and no amount of referee criticism can change that. A year is a long time in rugby, better luck for the 2013 RC when our players are older and the Boks are more experienced
8 Oct 2012, 13:11 pm
@cane-324: lol
8 Oct 2012, 13:11 pm
@cane-326: no caner, he said he will be, not is (was).
i guess its on his shoulders given the fact that alternatives are emerging fast.
8 Oct 2012, 13:14 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-325:
My lasting memory from Spies versus the English was when he received the ball in our 22 and ran full pace about 10 meters and STOPPED before making contact with the defender!?!?!?!?!?!? Now how is that depicted in the STATS?!?!?!?!? Oh sorry I forgot, that is added to the other 91 meters
8 Oct 2012, 13:15 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-307: Very hard to ignore you, I agree Spies was not his his best the last 2 years , Kanko was best this year. Vermeulen is nothing special.
Flo was best loosie saturday. Alberts was ordenary.
8 Oct 2012, 13:20 pm
@rangerman-327:
No one is b!tching. Its a debate and like any good argument there are the merits and demerits. Feel free to join us. It’s certainly better than debating the prospect of the savior of Bok rugby over the next 4 years.
@cane-326: Just love it when they talk themselves up and believe all the hype. Similar to the scrummie, no wing, uhm, no, work of art, uhm, model and I fear the same could happen to the Goose if not managed properly.
They should just shutthefuckup and do their talking on the field.
8 Oct 2012, 13:20 pm
@Dawn-100: Did you see Cory’s sad face in the background when Read decided not to pass to him, in wide open space so Nonu scored instead? I guess you can’t score a hat trick every week
8 Oct 2012, 13:22 pm
@Golden Boy-323: I agree stats only tell a part. But fact is that stats normally support the reality, you can not play a blinder and then the stats tell a different story. So I still say Vermeulen was less than average, and the stats support me in that. You and others think he played brilliantly , but the stats don’t support your theory.
8 Oct 2012, 13:27 pm
@cane-326: Oh hell yes. I think the question asked of Spies was: Who is the best 8 in the world. And Spies answered: Me, I am a work in progress….
Whatafuckingfool.
8 Oct 2012, 13:28 pm
@capebull-335:
Sorry for insulting you earlier. I just get riled up sometimes. As long as we agree that Stats tell part of the story then we can move on. And as has been proven many times over, STATS can be manipulated and in rugby even be subjective.
Use Bakkies as an example. According to HIS STATS, the AB’s infringed over twenty times in the first half without being penalized. Now ask any sane person and he may have a slightly different interpretation, hence markedly different STATS.
Sorry Bakkies
8 Oct 2012, 13:29 pm
@capebull-332: It’s easy to ignore me. Just scroll past my Spies bashing
Because it isn’t going to end anytime soon. (And he isn’t even playing at the moment…I’m purely reliving his past kak, wait until she takes her place as starting 8 again….)
She’s a nice person….but a dreadful loose forward. Meyer should have left her playing wing.
8 Oct 2012, 13:32 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-338:
8 Oct 2012, 13:33 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-338: Depends which media HM reads/listens to as to
whether he will be picked.
8 Oct 2012, 13:35 pm
@corporal punishment-266: Goosen got hammered, he ended up with a bloody nose from the Whitelock tackle, a few minutes later, Read ran straight into him, then a third forward. Looks like the ABs were serious about exploiting him. The loosies should have been protecting him better
8 Oct 2012, 13:38 pm
@capebull-339: You see, it’s easy to ignore me.
@ryecatcher-340: If Spies has an AWESOME S15 next year, and shows some heart – I doubt anyone will whinge if he is picked. That is what has p#ssed most folk off over the years. The position was always his, regardless of how kak he was, how out of form he was etc etc. If the man realises, he ISN’T an automatic pick, he might actually work. But that starts with the Bulls….if he is woeful, he must be dropped, captain or not. Arno Botha doesn’t deserve to ride the wood while Captain Invisible trots around Loftus.
8 Oct 2012, 13:40 pm
@249 Uh huh. Meltdown proceeds . .
WE WERE BEATEN BY A SUPERIOR TEAM!
8 Oct 2012, 13:44 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-342: agreed
8 Oct 2012, 13:48 pm
So what will it take to make the boks the best team in the world?
a. Central contracts for better player management ?
b. Replace the coaching staff with world class coaching staff with the best credentials? (Replace the defense coach or the attack/backline/skills coach or the kicking coach or the head coach? Or all of them?)
c. Improve domestic coaching to improve skills and style of play?
d. Team selections ?
e. Better tactics/game plan ?
Or all of the above ?
8 Oct 2012, 13:51 pm
@ryecatcher-344: Perhaps the injury he sustained when he had to return from world cup more serious than he lets out.And hate to say this,but I tjhink that Schalk(My all time favourite player) as psychologically scared.
of getting injured again.Vey noticeable in his play between the 2 injuries.The constant rotation of his neck.Entering rucks backwards.Scared = wrong word.Maybe wary
8 Oct 2012, 13:58 pm
Looks like the AB’s had spies at Boks training sessions. They are now the team who is happy to play with no ball and defend all the time. But, curse on you when you make a mistake with your attacking ball, the AB runners will score a try against you.
As Hansen said “rugby is a simple game really”
8 Oct 2012, 13:58 pm
@Houston This isn’t healthy man
8 Oct 2012, 14:01 pm
@The Analyst-56: Exactly, everyone with half brain.
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-23: “we can all agree”
The whole ward?
8 Oct 2012, 14:02 pm
@COUCHCOACH-310: Post320 out of line.Sorry.
8 Oct 2012, 14:07 pm
@Transformation-275:
“Skop and pray”. Ndiyaziqikaqika yintsini.
8 Oct 2012, 14:12 pm
@ryecatcher-346: Schalk is finished IMHO. I don’t think he is ever going to be the same player again – not this time round. He was younger and fitter after that neck injury, which allowed him to make a comeback something awesome.
This time round, I’m not sure he is going to be as lucky.
Ditto for Juan Smith I reckon. I will be shocked if either of them return the same players.
8 Oct 2012, 14:14 pm
Let us just admit the Backs are very good and have been for a long time. That will not make you less South African
8 Oct 2012, 14:19 pm
@Slartibartfast-12: True, as you say about the movement, unfortunately that’s clearly not the case in Habana’s try. JDV passed the ball while being a good meter outside 22 m line and Habana catched it more than meter inside with just a few meters between both players.
The same goes to the attack leading to Daggs yellow, although to be fair, it was not JDV who threw that pass, it was No 13 to JDV.
Don’t get me wrong, I am no way complaining as Blacks have thrown enough forwardies and got away with it themselves during the Tests as all other nations has done. It happens every day.
And contrary what okes like Skop try to imply, none of the five passes leading to Whitelock try were forward, just go and check again, Even Gear’s.
8 Oct 2012, 14:22 pm
@Golden Boy-337:
watch the game again
prove me wrong
i dare you…..
@viewer-348:
this is real life, sonny
you want hand holding smarmy arsed false niceties go join a farking drum circle
ok…
@Nils-349:
keep telling yourself that
it clearly makes you people feel better about your behaviour and character for you to project.
8 Oct 2012, 14:25 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-355: Yup, it’s somehow resembles watching circus clowns. Makes feel better.
8 Oct 2012, 14:34 pm
Bokkie folded like a cheap pack of cards.
8 Oct 2012, 16:34 pm
Cape Town – The Springboks have dropped one position back to third spot in the IRB rankings after the completion of the Rugby Championship.
South Africa finished their campaign with a 32-16 loss to the All Blacks in Soweto, while Australia’s 25-19 win over Argentina in Rosario helped the Wallabies edge past the Boks on the world rankings. They have 85.92 IRB ranking points, still well behind leaders New Zealand (93.35), with South Africa third on 84.69.
England (83.09) and France (83.03) are fourth and fifth respectively.
********************************************************
So, when Meyer started to work with the Boks, they were ranked 3rd.
9 test matches later, they are still 3rd.
Progress anyone???
8 Oct 2012, 16:40 pm
Top 12 rugby nation as of today:
Last week’s position in brackets.
1(1) NEW ZEALAND 93.35
2(3) AUSTRALIA 85.92
3(2) SOUTH AFRICA 84.69
4(4) ENGLAND 83.09
5(5) FRANCE 83.03
6(6) WALES 82.26
7(7) IRELAND 79.85
8(8) ARGENTINA 78.63
9(9) SCOTLAND 77.97
10(10) SAMOA 76.23
11(11) ITALY 76.03
12(12) TONGA
8 Oct 2012, 16:41 pm
@nama1-358: so what has heyneke meyer done?
sweet nothing, we were third before RC, we’re 3rd now…
8 Oct 2012, 16:54 pm
The @Transformation-360: The IRB points
now show us to be as far behind AB,s as we are ahead of Italy.(Approx)
The chasing pack are starting to threaten.
8 Oct 2012, 16:59 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-132:
Strange, the last four years you asked that PdV rest the Boks for the EOYT in order for them to be ready for the next year.
Now, you asked of the CC coaches to rest the Boks for the remainder of the CC in order for them to be ready for the EOYT.
Mmmmmmm…
8 Oct 2012, 17:09 pm
@Transformation-360: @ryecatcher-361:
Don’t be surprised if England, France and Wales jump ahead of us after the EOYT.
8 Oct 2012, 17:10 pm
@nama1-363: huh?
no way
8 Oct 2012, 17:23 pm
People saying that Vermeulen is too slow for a fast pace running game (which is true) but they still prefer Alberts in a starting loose trio. How is his pace when the game is open and fast?
Alberts best position is on the bench, coming on with 25-30 minutes left on the clock, playing against the tired legs of the opposition. The fact that he goes MIA after about 30 minutes every time he starts a test, prove this.
8 Oct 2012, 17:24 pm
@nama1-363: Ohdearfuckboots no. I will collapse in a heap and never get up.
8 Oct 2012, 17:28 pm
@nama1-365: dude, between read and MESSAM they make our loosie look like carthorses, especially messam! the boy can motor!
8 Oct 2012, 17:38 pm
@Transformation-364: @The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-366:
Wales and England both play Aussies as well as Boks. If they can beat both teams and we only beat the Scots, there’s a great chance they’ll jump ahead of us, being less than 2 points behind us at present.
France also play Aussies and must have a good chance to beat them.
@Transformation-367:
That’s true.
Did you see the run by Hooper against the Argies? looked like a wing instead of a flanker.
8 Oct 2012, 17:42 pm
@nama1-368: eish, i just wish stegmann was fit…agile said he ran 100m is less than 11s…
8 Oct 2012, 17:45 pm
I’m sure there will be other tests against the 2nd tier nations like Samoa, Fidji etc for the European teams to score some extra points.
They can then use the 6N next year to consolidate their lead on the Boks.
8 Oct 2012, 17:50 pm
@Transformation-369:
Agile/Steggies has gone quiet. He probably also hurt from this lack of performance by Meyer.
I see Meyer is already preparing the public for the reintroduction of Morne on the EOYT. Poor Jantjies will again have to carry tackle bags until Goosen is ready.
8 Oct 2012, 17:55 pm
Australia ending ahead of us despite playing their C-team for nearly the whole championship, tells us exactly how “strong” our rugby is. And to think some people called this Australian team the weakest Aus team ever.
What does it say about the Boks then, I ask you?
8 Oct 2012, 18:00 pm
@Transformation-369: Not sure if you will agree, but i think young PSDT could be looked at as a future bok 7, strong fast and has very good skills, of course needs a bit of rounding off on his game. and of course will also strengthen the lineouts
8 Oct 2012, 18:00 pm
@nama1-372:
And yet South Africa had three franchises in the Super 15 playoffs, more than New Zealand (2) and Australia (1).
You would think that would equate to a better result in the Rugby Championship for the Springboks…
8 Oct 2012, 18:00 pm
Meyer’s record away from home thus far:
Play: 3
Win: 0
Draw: 1
Lose: 2
Win percentage: 00000000000000000000000000000%
What will his record be after the EOYT. I predict he’ll lost two matches bringing his record to:
Play: 6
Win: 0
Draw: 2
Lose: 4
Win percentage: 0000000000000000000000000000000%
Save this post.
8 Oct 2012, 18:07 pm
@WP-Forever-374:
It has been proven time and again that performances by franchises in Super rugby does not have much bearing on results in the 3N in the past, and as proven now, will not have much influence on results in the RC going forward.
Every country can come up with 25-30 international quality players to compete in the RC no matter where the franchises ended up in the S15 in the cases of SA, Aus and NZ.
8 Oct 2012, 18:14 pm
“Re Boks being in top 4 so 2 b seeded best thing may be to b unseeded & grouped with Nz – get a crack at them & only get them again in Final” (Keo on twitter)
Looking at the bright side of Boks not being in the top four already, are we?
8 Oct 2012, 18:36 pm
A player the Boks really miss is Juan Smith. Alberts is not an 80 min player. I would play him off the bench. Can Pieter Steph du Toit develop into a quality blindside flank?
8 Oct 2012, 18:59 pm
@nama1-375:
LOL Nama, you are rubbing it in!!!
8 Oct 2012, 20:12 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-302: the spies obsession in pretoria is scary…how can a sane person quote a performance from 2009 as back up to their argument at the end of 2012??? hahahahaha *embraboer*
@Golden Boy-303: lol @ CapeBullshit
8 Oct 2012, 20:13 pm
@Peter Mkata-351: lol… eish mhlekazi lomqeqeshi ufundela phezulu kwalo elohashe ukulikhwela…
8 Oct 2012, 20:20 pm
where are these goddamn blind as bat Meyer disciples.. where the hell are they hiding out now
Keohane you top of the list.. show your undying allegiance to this dunce that is leading this country’s rugby heritage into the arse end of nowhere fast.
8 Oct 2012, 20:37 pm
The toads are hibernating under a log somewhere waiting for the end of year tour wins against a bunch of K a K teams.Then they’ll be back spewing their s h it out of their *** holes once again
8 Oct 2012, 21:00 pm
Some myths and misconceptions before and during the RC:
1. The All Blacks are average.
2. The Aussies are kak.
3. Heyneke works on a plan.
4. The Boks are improving.
5. Goosen will be the savior of Bok rugby.
6. Bigger is always better.
7. Traveling from west to east leads to teams not performing well.
8. The Boks will win all their home games.
9. The Boks will win at least two away games.
10. All the referees are against the Boks.
Well, these myths and misconceptions were proved wrong in the space of 8 weeks. What are we going to do about the real issues that we are faced with?
8 Oct 2012, 21:16 pm
@nama1-384: I still think Goosen is the sh*t.
He was badly managed by Heineken but he’s the future as long as he stays relatively injury free.
First order of business is to clean out Meyer’s coaching buddies and install some fresh proven rugby brains to help Meyer out and to optimize our back-line. Would also be great if we could manage our Bok squad effectively away from the national setup like the Kiwis do with their centrally contracted AB’s.
Saru will do nothing of course so we’ll just dream of better days instead.
8 Oct 2012, 21:17 pm
@ryecatcher-350:
Apology accepted
8 Oct 2012, 21:18 pm
@nama1-384: robert marawa had pdv on his show today and i found it funny when robert asked him to comment on saturday’s performance pdv declined& said in SA only some people are allowed – by the media – to criticise meyer and he us not one of them, everytime he opines on the boks the next day an article is pened about him being bitter or what not…
when pressed by robert he referred to a “we”
‘we are not defending as unit’ ‘we lack intensity etc.
8 Oct 2012, 21:28 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-385: how do we expect SARU to do anything when EVERY decision has to be ratified by the same union presidents who are monopolising the players?
people forget that even at the Bulls meyer was at odds with the clubs when he wanted exclusive use of the contracted players until he threatened to QUIT!
look at the Kings decision, Jurie Roux was like a mute as he could not be seen to be leading in any direction but only holding the reins until it came to the famous vote!
8 Oct 2012, 21:34 pm
@mxhosa-254: That is a very good back line and that back line would not have been humiliated by AB’s on Saturday
I would also chuck in W. Le Roux as 15 / 10 / 11 cover.
8 Oct 2012, 21:43 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-385:
Meyer supporters will have you know that Mc Farland and van Graan was there when the Bulls won their CC and Super rugby titles and that they have the pedigree.
That’s why you only here complaints about Ricardo. Somebody even blamed him for the poor defense by the Boks even though Mc Farland is the defensive coach. Who do we blame for the lack of attacking play by the Boks? Yes, you’re right…… Ricardo, even though van Graan is officially the attacking coach.
I asked the question early today and nobody responded: If Ricardo is the back line coach and van Graan is the attacking coach, who should we blame for our lack of attacking play?
The way I look at it, this coaching business is a HM show. That is why he sits alone in the coaches box. The others are just there for the ride.
@Transformation-387:
Brilliant!!!
8 Oct 2012, 21:51 pm
@Transformation-388: It’s a sad state of affairs. This farcical Bok coaching team is a direct result of our ridiculously inept administration.
8 Oct 2012, 22:10 pm
@nama1-390: It is funny isnt it? No mention of Van Graan’s interesting family connections nor his aptitude for the role of “attack coach. Or the difference the likes of Koen has made to the kickers.
Agreed. Meyer doesnt want anyone sitting with him in the box qualified to ask any uncomfortable questions.
8 Oct 2012, 22:13 pm
I would take Morne and Elton & Lambie
to EOYT:
15 Pat Lambie
14 JP Pietersen
13 Juan De Jongh
12 Jean de Villiers
11 Bryan Habana
10 Elton Jantjes
9 Francois Hougaard
8 Duane Vermeulen
7 Siya Kolisi
6 Francois Louw
5 Andries Bekker
4 Eben Etzebeth
3 Jannie Du Plessis
2 Tiaan Liebenberg
1 Tendai Mtawarira
16 Adriaan Strauss
17 Pat Cilliers
18 Willem Alberts
19 Marcell Coetzee
20 Ruan Pienaar
21 Jaco Taute
22 Gio Aplon
23 Chilliboy Ralepelle
24 Coenie Oosthuzyen
25 Juandre Kruger
26 Dewald Potgietere
27 Jano Vermaak
28 Morne Steyn
29 JJ Engelbrecht
30 Lwazi Mvovo
Injured: Brussouw, F Steyn, Schalk Burger, Spies,
Unavailble: J Fourie & Fourie Du Preez
8 Oct 2012, 23:30 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-391: but why is this?
is your admin similar to some of your fans, where no matter what the rest of the world sees, some of your fans are blind to the obvious, this unrelenting catch cry of “yes we are gonna win on Saturday” “yes we can do it” etc etc
And then when the result is posted – and you lose – some of you still harp on with “if this had happened and if that happened, then we would have won”
Its bloody stupid man – I am not saying this you – youre one of the more level headed posters in here, but hell, there have some shockers on this board lately, posting their preferred team, their idea of utopia, their panacea for the boks.
Its really simple guys, read Ritchie McCaws book – it was released today.
It covers these things
fitness
decision making
team unity
very few SA fans dissect these areas
Many folk have claimed how SA dominated the first 20 – and to the novice they did.
But we expected that. We expected to have the full blast of 20 minutes of eagerness and hunger thrust at the AB’s – we knew we had to defend like mad dogs, and give away penalties to stop the assault. Boks were up to 10 zip – could have been more – we were stretched
And then we scored, and it was like a pin popping a balloon, the life was drawn from the faces of the boks. Another try to the AB’s – too easy too – and how they fell. 2 more penalties, and in a way, they felt they were back to square, despite the scoreboard showing them in front by 4 minutes
Coaches will always say – ya gotta be the first to score in the first 10 minutes after half time – the AB’s wasted no time, and lurched back into the lead under 40 seconds.
Fitness – had the boks been fitter – they would have hit back hard, they would have made better decisions, they would have fought for each other
The first 20 mins saw a truly committed bok team, the forwards in particular, they were into everything, they were the business – but they couldnt sustain it, and therein lies the heart of the Bok issues.
God forbid they become as fit as the All Blacks – watch out world
9 Oct 2012, 02:34 am
@KiaKahaNZ-394: Amen.
9 Oct 2012, 04:42 am
@Golden Boy-292:
Hehehe Bambie got a cold?
9 Oct 2012, 04:56 am
@Nils-354:
It was meant as a general comment and to illustrate that the majority of passes the arm chair critics call as forward are in fact not forward acording to the laws of the game.
Besides, unless you are 100% in line with the pass it is all but impossible to correctly judge the angle of a pass, of course this has never stopped anyone doing just that.
10 Oct 2012, 03:50 am
It has been interesting reading all comments from within SA and outside about what happened in SOWETO. Kia Kaha had some good points to make, others have also, I do not expect SA/Boks to NOT improve, they will, but here is the thing. It doesnt matter who gets taken away or who should go and who is nominated for the EOYT, what matters is how to integrate the skills of the individuals into what HM and the Bok management hope to develop in the Team Bokke. Individually you have some outstanding players, yeah ok but then what, when plan A is not happening, I am not sure what plan B is, again there was inept and mindless kicking from RP et al to the AB’s back three, and what happens, they run it back and score. The AB’s are always happy to kick (intelligently) to the Boks – empty spaces, sidelines for territorial gain or to get out of the 22, and then let the Boks make a decision as to what they are going to do – KiaKaha alluded to this in Richies recently released book – decision making – something the Boks havent quite come to grips with – I am sure in the fullness of time they will, but that mechanism starts with the coaching staff, HM etc etc. If you ask the true blue NZ rugby supporter, they want a strong SA Team, they want a strong AUS team, it helps keep southern hemisphere rugby up where it belongs. All the constant bagging and carry on by SA supporters is counter-productive. And to those who still say “NZ cheats, the Ref is on their side”….fact: in the 1st half NZ didnt get one penalty in favour of them, so how can people say the REF got it or gets it wrong. We got whistled out of the first 40minutes, SA had all the territory and all the possession, STATS prove that, but all SA did was 1 try and x3 penalties for 16 points. Come the 2nd half, WOW BANG what a dramatic change and the AB’s kicked into another gear that the Boks just couldnt handle. But they will learn, and here’s the rub, when SA do learn and improve, the AB’s will be even further ahead with new ideas, strategies, players, game plan, skills etc etc etc. Anyway, I will be watching with keen interest the Boks on their EOYT, I will expect dramatic improvement and an unbeaten tour just like the AB’s.
11 Oct 2012, 02:10 am
For decades now the Boks have brought a 70 minute fitness level to an 80 minute game. And they have always lapsed into zombie sleepwalk glide mode for the last ten minutes of the first half and the first ten minutes of the second half, both of which fall inside their 70 minute fitness quota.
So they’re firing on all cylinders only from kickoff up to the 30 minute mark and in the second half from the 50th to the 70th minute. For a full half an hour in every match they’re all AWOL either mentally or physically or both.
11 Oct 2012, 16:51 pm
@KiaKahaNZ-394: Excellent post KKNZ!
I totally agree that SA fans do not think of the more realistic issues at times and those factors need to be addressed in the team.
I thought the same about the 10 mins before and after half-time. It is the most important time to score (or not allow a score) I remember Jake White often saying that, and the ABs scored in both. Testament to a excellent, experienced, Test team.
However, you can never stop a South African fan (and I would imagine fans like Argies, Welsh, Scots) from believing “yes we are gonna win on Saturday” or “yes we can do it”.
That always be believed and your team should be supported. While I agree you have to be realistic (eg. Boks were given zero chance in Dunedin and then actually played really well), I also believe that your country should always be supported and believed in.
11 Oct 2012, 16:52 pm
@TheTackler-399: It is a very good point and often sad but true.
Or they dont do anything for 65 – 70 minutes and then start running in the last 5 mins!
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