Nothing soft about Soweto slaughter
8 Oct 2012
MARK KEOHANE, in Business Day newspaper, writes for anyone to claim a few soft moments was the difference for the Boks is to claim insanity.
The only thing that can save the Springboks now, said a mate of mine, is another 20 years of sporting isolation. Having just watched the match tape for a second time, for professional and not sadistic reasons, my mate may just have a point.
Damn, the Boks took a beating.
This was the most brutal of reality checks and to deny the obvious is to ask for more pain.
The Boks were second best – and by some distance. They have been for some time and there should be no comfort in being the best of those competing for numbers two to five.
The referee did not favour the All Blacks. The referee did not cheat the Boks. The All Blacks did not have an extra man on the field. Statistically all the advantage was South Africa’s, before the start and in the first quarter of the match.
The Boks were at home, playing in front of 85 000 at altitude, and against an opponent who had already claimed the tournament championship and had reached Johannesburg from New Zealand via Buenos Aires.
The assumption – at least mine – was the greater hunger for success had to be that of the Boks. Similarly, when judging the enthusiasm of the two teams.
I wrote before the match that one team wanted to win and the other had to win. I got it wrong in writing the team who had to were the South Africans.
Our boys wanted to win, but were never good enough. Richie McCaw’s men had to win to make another telling statement to those who refuse to acknowledge their achievements.
Clearly, there isn’t such a thing as a meaningless Test for these All Blacks. They set their own standards and they were done no favours by the referee who awarded the All Blacks their first penalty in the 57th minute, by which time they had already scored four tries.
I’ve seen some very talented All Black teams stumble in South Africa because of a high risk and all out attack approach. I’ve also seem some very good New Zealand teams run out of puff as altitude proved as decisive as any home team attitude.
Not in Soweto.
The All Blacks were intelligent in their approach, calculated in when to play for field position and when to trust their defensive patterns and they were ruthless on attack.
These guys played with no risk in the first 20 minutes, preferring to kick the ball back to the Boks and ask them to think. They hardly played any rugby, with the Boks making two tackles and forcing the New Zealanders to make 28.
Yet on 30 minutes the Boks trailed 12-10 and all theory about home ground advantage was secondary to the reality of an on-field beating.
I’ve seen All Black teams batter the Boks in the professional era. I’ve never seen one that appeared so easy and so emphatic as in the last 40 minutes in Soweto.
To claim a few soft moments was the difference is to claim insanity.
I don’t put much store in what coaches and players say after the game. It really is only when they see a recording of the 80 minutes that you get some sense out of them, even though Bok coach Heyneke Meyer will know that no scoreboard could do justice to the one-sided beating in Soweto.
For those of who you may challenge my view go and watch the tape again. Those last 50 minutes especially were torture and the final 10 minutes looked like the winding down of a training session.
There can be no masking the situation and there is also no gain from playing the blame game. Whether it was Johan Goosen, Elton Jantjies or Patrick Lambie at flyhalf would not have made a difference. It would not have made a difference whether the early kicks went over or not. The All Blacks would have come back just those few minutes earlier.
Each week I hear a coach, a captain and a player say a few moments cost them. If they acknowledge the problem is more complex then those few moments will hopefully decrease considerably in the next 12 months.
Questions rightfully have been asked of player performance this season. Meyer has said the season already has answered which players selected were good enough and which were not, but he needs to ask the same questions of his support staff.
How good are they? How good are the defensive structures because players don’t seem to trust each other or trust the system? What is going on with the kickers?
Hard questions have to be asked from within.
There is no need to panic because of the defeat, but I’d start to panic as a supporter if there is denial about the nature of the defeat.
288 Comments
8 Oct 2012, 11:00 am
insanity,just about right.
8 Oct 2012, 11:01 am
They were quite simply pumped by one of the best All Black teams in the pro-game’s history.
If I can choose one word to sum it up, it would be composure – one team had it, the other couldn’t spell it.
8 Oct 2012, 11:01 am
Soft dragons!
8 Oct 2012, 11:01 am
A little melodramatic….almost as if keo blames the coach for him getting his prediction wrong.
Biggest worry was that we looked mentally soft after the opening 30 minutes. Possibly an insight why a coach sometimes selects players who arent always the prefferred form and technically adept players. He wants streetfighters sometimes.
Defensively 12 and 13 was a problem. But then, it is only the 2nd game together as a combo up against a kiwi combo with yearws playing together. Chuck in a new flyhalf and a relatively new winger and you have a more logical view.
8 Oct 2012, 11:03 am
Herr Meyer don’t have a clue.I don’t see him surving the chop.
8 Oct 2012, 11:04 am
@PissAnt-2: You think so? Richie hasn’t been playing his normal best imho.
8 Oct 2012, 11:07 am
The All Blacks probably played to about 60 percent of their potential.Scary stuff!!
8 Oct 2012, 11:07 am
I wonder if we have a head coach with the will to make decisions outside his comfort zone. If we keep this team and alter a little here and there we will b fine.
8 Oct 2012, 11:08 am
@wnbb-5: We’ll take the northern hemisphere teams. The current team is certainly not as bad as the Strauli era. ABs had a weaker side early in Jake’s tenure.
8 Oct 2012, 11:08 am
Indeed, there doesn’t ever seem to be any reflection of the management’s inexperience at this level by Meyer. Can’t see him ever admitting that without swallowing his tongue.
For me, the All Blacks exploited the inexperience of Taute at outside centre ruthlessly.
Its widely understood to be one of the hardest positions defensively, you can’t pick a fullback there, not against outside backs of NZ’s ilk!
De Jongh was the far better pick, for this match particularly.
8 Oct 2012, 11:09 am
looks to me like nick mallet is twisting the knife into meyer at every opportunity.
the oke is outspoken for sure.
is he punting for the bok job?
that said, the guy makes sense and i would be happy with him being given a shot at some stage but he must swear not to go anywhere near that poisonous solomons character.
8 Oct 2012, 11:10 am
@skunk-8: skunk werent you the guy involved in kwantu rugby club?
8 Oct 2012, 11:12 am
5.personally, i wish we would scrap the year end tour every couple years so there could be a decent 3-4 week bok tactical squad. We need an upgrade on player and playing pylosophy. Playing more positively is more than a team talk it is an entire mental approach that needs addressing some of our players have it but most do not. This could be a few weeks spent addressing everything wrong with our game on a regular basis until we have come up to speed. It could also be a period to get in task specific coaching or whatever is required to address current shortcomings.
Basically a period to take stock and address.
Personally, confidence is something ourmplayers are always short of.
8 Oct 2012, 11:14 am
Dumb fcking coach that spells it out
Common Keohane own up.. you and all your bullbevok messiah seekers you picked the WRONG fckup of a brain dead coach.. that’s what has happened here.. who gonna own up and who is going to sink their brainless head deeper in the sand.. Streauli era re awakened here we go again.. fokmavoort to nowhere..
Get Mallet or an Aussie in because this brain dead deficient imbecile is not leading the country’s rugby heritage ANYWHERE.. any time soon if ever.
8 Oct 2012, 11:15 am
@Lions_Soutie-9: The heavy fields of the north might be Meyer’s undoing.A whitewash for the north could be on the cards.
8 Oct 2012, 11:16 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-13: I agree with you 100%. The players are so “stuffed” at the end of the season – they hardly have any time off. They should perhaps alternate an Emerging Boks’ squad one year and a Boks’ team the next. The guys need to recharge mentally and physically
8 Oct 2012, 11:16 am
11 mallet is a tosser.
Where was his defence when we got nilled in nz 12 years ago.
And ashwin even less…a jake white love child with plenty to say now but where was he when we were getting blasted in the strauli and jake era
8 Oct 2012, 11:17 am
watching the style of rugby the lions, sharks and cheetahs play, its a joke that south african backs supposedly dont have the skills.
meyer said “you will never beat nz playing them at their own game” before the flippen game so guess what? dumbfluck smash bash rugby is the way forward.
but when it goes wide and carthorses like duanne, bekker, flo and willem and JdV get left for dust, you are up shitcreek without a paddle boyos.
8 Oct 2012, 11:18 am
Maybe im not that clued up,but what serious credentials do Ricardo Loubsher have?he was an average player who is now our backline coach.
8 Oct 2012, 11:18 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-17: they are being harsh i agree but maybe its the medicine we need bud because that bok display was woeful.
8 Oct 2012, 11:20 am
15…possibly but not logically as the only time we genuinely can unstuck was aginst the kiwis moving the ball very quickly on a fast track.
Injuries and player fatigue and lack of test depth to call on is a greater concern.
8 Oct 2012, 11:21 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-13: Interesting.Comments like yours where decidely absent during the PdV years.In fact the talk of the town was that PdV would be a disgrace if he has a poor end of year tour.No talk of player management.As i said,very interesting post.
8 Oct 2012, 11:22 am
@rangerman-20: so how did all your wishful thinking pan out.. huh rangerprude.. you dreamed the wrong wishful dream this weekend.. where are all your hyped up infatuated expectations gone to NOW.. dumbass… you and these bullbevok morons like this Brigadier de Doos are same kind.. fck’d in the head till you awaken out your brain dead slumber.
8 Oct 2012, 11:25 am
cut this brain dead coach NOW.. any further downhill trajectory is only going to deepen the wounds.. Now all the messiah seekers are calling for a halt to Eoyt’s so they can try salvage some type of credibility from this brain dead impostors tenure.. 44 % success and heading DOWNHILL.. with not much scope for survival.. I reckon few more losses and this moron chucks it up and retreats back into the laager he tried emerging out of.
8 Oct 2012, 11:26 am
@fitz1ella-23: you seem quite angry today snoeky?
having a tough day cupcake?
8 Oct 2012, 11:27 am
@fitz1ella-23: My goodness but you are a ray of sunshine today……..
8 Oct 2012, 11:27 am
@wnbb-7:
“The All Blacks probably played to about 60 percent of their potential.Scary stuff!!………………..”
No wnbb, …………………………………………………………………that was our best showing for some considerable time.
2nd Test against Ireland, earlier this year AB’s were extremely good. But no offence to the Irish, they are not the Boks.
So lets make that 90% shall we.
8 Oct 2012, 11:29 am
@fitz1ella-24: Aag fok man bly stil. Jy is soos n stoepkakkertjie wat staan en kef vir die melkman.
8 Oct 2012, 11:29 am
Keo for the one thousdand time Soccer City is not in Soweto – show me on a map that it is in Soweto, bloody idiot!
8 Oct 2012, 11:29 am
@cane-27: You guys were brilliant on Saturday. Well done man.
8 Oct 2012, 11:29 am
My biggest problem has been selecting the wrong players and using the wrong tactics. Yes, the boks are in shambles after the PDV era and no thanks to SARU. However what really bugs the **** out of me is that we had 3 teams in the play-offs, 2 in the Semis and one in the final, and yet we can’t product a winning test team.
For me its boils down to the coaching and the players selected. The bulk of the players should have come from the Sharks and Stormers and the Springboks should have borrowed staff from these unions and adopted their playing patterns.
We need some hard players, not some kids at this stage.
8 Oct 2012, 11:30 am
@cane-27: Well done on the weekend bud.
You can be very proud of your team that, IMO, will continue to improve and shatter even more records.
8 Oct 2012, 11:31 am
18.
Come on ranger, the Cc?
Seriously
Most of the cc superheroes get drilled in superrugby never mind test rugby.
As if me playing well at touchrugby on the beach is evidence that i should be pro?
Lets leave the emotion out of it, we got beaten by what statisitically is the greatest and most test match experienced kiwi side of all time fielding 6 u21,s and without our and the worlds best hooker as well as our best 14 and possibly the worldsbest. Hell, our 20 year old flyhalf replacemnt with only 100minutes ofntest rugby under his belt was a 22 year old with 80 pdd minutes under his belt.
This is dissappointing but not a train smash.
My bigger concern is if our currently limited player resources get chucked back into cc this weekend making it an even larger uphill battle endofyear.
8 Oct 2012, 11:32 am
@rangerman-25: @KWAGGA ROBERTSE-26: watching you messiah seekers twisting and turning.. writhing in the pain of abject realization that your last white hope arsehole coach is the absolute impostor none of you were ever old enough or awake enough to recognize.. Now catch a goddamn wake up and realize this moron is a dunce.. supreme.. or has it not sunken in YET.. imbef’ngciles.. You and Keohane were hoping against hope that we were going to turn the corner from the last little spate of downward trajectory under Smit and FdP and PdV.. Now where the fck are we heading.. down the goddamn drain.. clutching at white messiah straws in tandem..
Morons united.. that is SA rugby fraternity.. not a goddamn clue in the world anywhere amongst any of them.. none at all.
8 Oct 2012, 11:33 am
Ranger.
Yeah i was. No longer in durban so i have been out of touch…
8 Oct 2012, 11:34 am
@cane-27: Don’t give Bok supporters false hope Caner!Very devious of you.
8 Oct 2012, 11:34 am
Fcking mobile posting, i am going to get my laptop!
8 Oct 2012, 11:37 am
Never thought I’d ever say this,but right now Heyneke is making PDV look like a great coach.Cannot remember a more rudderless display under his tenure
8 Oct 2012, 11:37 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-33: i wasnt talking about the cc players being elevated for the boks bud.
i was talking about the style of play and the execution thereof.
we underestimate our backs and choose to play a style that doesnt allow them the chance to acctually play to their potential imo.
@fitz1ella-34: you still seem a little angry snoeky.
have a lie down.
nobody is calling for the coach’s head but you
8 Oct 2012, 11:38 am
@cane-27: Well done to your lot, caner. That was some performance.
8 Oct 2012, 11:39 am
@skunk-35: ok cool man, was a long time ago we chatted.
was really sad to hear the club was basically disbanded?
imo they were pushed too soon due to politics and i am gutted for them as we really enjoyed playing them both home and in mashu.
8 Oct 2012, 11:39 am
@Diliza-38: Agree.
But Tacitus, Brigadier, Gunther and Heyneke Meyer will tell you that PDV worked with better quality players.
8 Oct 2012, 11:42 am
@rangerman-11: how emotional were those okes in the studio after the game?
ashwin was firing on all cylinders
8 Oct 2012, 11:42 am
Where are those days when we beat the All Blacks four times in a row?Sadly,we will never see those days again,especially with a thick Tshwane Bull at the helm of the Boks.
8 Oct 2012, 11:43 am
ABs were like the Aussie cricket team of the early 2000s – too good for everyone. Boks played well but were not good enough against this quality team. Instead of dwelling we should think about what we ate going to do to improve
8 Oct 2012, 11:44 am
@fitz1ella-34: You on some kind of misguided self-congratulatory trip here, old poepol? As if the Boks losing is a feather in your cap?
You’ve won nothing here. Whether the Boks win or lose, you’re still the same fcked in the head phony you’ve always been.
Catch a wake up. Seriously, you’re a massive embarrassment.
8 Oct 2012, 11:45 am
Keo “writes for anyone to claim a few soft moments was the difference for the Boks is to claim insanity.”
Just last week you were praising Heineken
8 Oct 2012, 11:46 am
@wnbb-44: Oh yeah,those were the days we had wc winners playing the game…now we only have Dean Greyling,Potgieter,Flip etc etc.
8 Oct 2012, 11:47 am
@Train-45: eating is not going to help.
8 Oct 2012, 11:49 am
@Diliza-38:
I can, 19-0 in CT.
8 Oct 2012, 11:50 am
Just read the article, sorry going to reblog my comment from ryan’s article…
Ryan you might add HMs failure in selecting the best possible coaching staff… If he appointed the best personnel his record might have been much better…
1. Loubscher certainly isnt the best attacking coach SARU could afford and its disgraceful that the bok backs are coached by a backline coach with only vodacom cup experience. HM didnt have the luxury to shop around, the timing due to his belated appointment made it difficult to find quality coaches without a contract, but thats no excuse… Loubscher could have been handed a short term contract… HM had success at the bulls with a great BL coach with a lot of experience and excellent credentials in Louden… why not appoint a coach with similar experience and success?
2. An excellent defensive coach like Nieharber would have been snapped up by any other international coaching team. Why wasnt he appointed?
3. Koen….I dont know what his coaching success record is but it seems he’s making great kickers mediocre…
4. Why isnt Matfield involved with the lineouts? The boks’ lineout was their biggest weapon and teams including the ABs avoided lineouts at all costs… And its clear that it was due to Matfields brilliance and unique understanding of this crucial set piece. Why not use him to make the boks just as mighty in this department…?
The reason everyone would say is Bulls bias… after each failure these selections should be criticized a helll of a lot more that player selections or tactics !
For the boks to become the best, they need to be coached by the best… Imo.
8 Oct 2012, 11:52 am
One thing’s for sure — the right team won the World Cup in 2011.
8 Oct 2012, 11:52 am
@katman-46: go talk to your little bumchum prude clown who’s writhing like the fishie on the end of the line.. you and him BOTH were calling a big Bok win this weekend.. were you moron white messiah seekers NOT .. and WHO was telling you your coach is LOST in the jungle of his own goddamn delusions.. same as you two wet behind the ears imbeciles still decidedly are.
Taute at 13 .. ahead of De Jongh … who’s call was that.. You and Your DUMB coach.. Hougaard at 11 .. WHICH moron persists with that .. You and your dumb deluded coach not so… Kirchner at 15.. Pienaar at 9… how many more examples of IDIOCY are you gonna sink your dumb boertjie head into the denial driven sand along with your DUMB deluded white coach…
Yep its a feather in my cap alright.. because as true as the sun is shining I could select a better team than this moron imbecile messiah dunce you bow and pray to that he was going to lead you out your desert of delusion any old day…
8 Oct 2012, 11:54 am
@Transformation-43: haha, to be honest i only saw part of it as i was gutted
@katman-46:
he is indeed trying to claim some kind of high ground.
he is welcome to it but the fact that he has never complimented a bok coach makes it hard to take seriously.
8 Oct 2012, 11:56 am
@Diliza-38: how clueless was this PdV-coached team?
M. Steyn (C Mcleod 66); B Basson (O Ndugane 66), A Jacobs (W Olivier 67), J de Jongh, L Mvovo; P Lambie, R Pienaar; D Greyling (CJ van der Linde 47), J Smit, W Kruger (C Ralepelle 47), G Mostert (R Kankowski 74), A Hargreaves, D Stegmann (J Deysel 58), J Deysel (A Johnson 48), D Rossouw.
8 Oct 2012, 11:56 am
Keo it is not rocket science. The structure / systems in SA rugby need to be changed. Central contracting systems. Better coaches. Better player management. We will continue to lose on a consistent basis until the above is changed.
In NZ they all pull together because the All Blacks come first. Not in SA….lets see how many Boks play Currie Cup this weekend?
We will continue to slide (and get the odd rare win against the AB’s) until we address the system. Simples.
8 Oct 2012, 11:56 am
@rangerman-54: go revisit the little wishful thinking exchange of hyped up expectations you were so CONVINCED about on Friday night you dumb little fishie writhing in your pain of abject realization that you got it WRONG.. AGAIN.. dumbfckngass moron.
8 Oct 2012, 11:58 am
Firstly the game was played in Nasrec, not like the marketers would have us believe Soweto … it’s close, but really.
Secondly, you have a very inexperienced side against a very experienced side .. and that experienced side is the best in the world currently to boot.
There are 6 under 21 players in the starting 22 of the Boks.
Positions 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 13, 14 and to a point 15 are ‘new’ or ‘newish’ players to a point and new combinations. There are some with a fair amount of caps, but how many of those of coming off the bench and playing behind established players a year ago.
We are going to get strengthened with players coming back from injury.
The coach knows what he is doing, the assistance we are still not sure about.
There is a change happening in each game. It is a learning curve for all.
Yes, the AB’s are much better than us for now .. but I have a feeling things are going to get allot better.
So chill, there is forward progress, not stalling like in 2010 and 2011.
This is still going to become a very good Bok team, one off the best since isolation ended, maybe the best.
Yes Keo, we did not lose because of the ref, the AB were better and more clinical on the day … but he was very suspect in the last 12 or so min after giving out a yellow. There were 2 def penalties to the Boks in the AB red zone. One in front of the ref and one the line ref could not have missed (scrum, hand on the ground)
I really wish the Boks use some brains. Why try and crash over when close to the line when the opposition has one man short in the back line. Just plain stupid … and all SA teams do that ****.
8 Oct 2012, 11:59 am
@XV-56:
I agree not too complicated… If we dont have skills coaches or attacking coaches that will aid the players to become the best, then they should get foreign coaches to have coaching workshops… be proactive for a change to bring forth change…
8 Oct 2012, 12:00 pm
@XV-56: SA system stands in Bok path
——————————————————————————–
by Gavin Rich 08 October 2012
There were some who scoffed when Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer said after the FNB Stadium test against the All Blacks that his team can close the gap by this time next year, but it was wrong to do so.
Even though the chasm between first and second at the moment looks a yawning one, it is no more so than what separated the Boks from the top teams in 1997, 2003 and 2008. In all three of those years the Boks finished last in what was then the Tri-Nations but then came back to win the competition the following season.
“The All Blacks are a long way ahead of us at the moment, but a year is a long time in rugby and a lot can change in that period,” said Meyer.
“It’s easy to make excuses, and we do want to win every single game, but we also have to be realistic. We have six guys who are still under 21. But I have a lot of belief in this team, and the players have belief in me.
Some guys have just had their first taste of test rugby. They will grow with experience, and if we can get through the end-of-year tour this will be a much better team next year.”
The Boks play the first match of the November tour in just under five weeks when they face Ireland in Dublin before proceeding to Edinburgh and London. As Meyer says, it is looming as a crucial tour for the Boks as this is the big opportunity for the team to start developing in preparation for next year’s Rugby Championship.
However, South African rugby has long shown a propensity for shooting itself in the foot, and it appears one of the biggest lessons of the All Black dominance of the southern hemisphere competition has yet to be internalised by the decision makers.
While Meyer wants to let the newcomers gain experience and the combinations to grow on the tour, he has no guarantee that those players will be available when the tour departure arrives.
It was understood until last week that the 30 players who served under Meyer during the home leg of the Championship would be ruled out of the remaining phase of the Currie Cup, but there appears to have been an about-turn, with the provinces being allowed to call up their Boks for the domestic competition.
It appears the provinces have enforced their right to field the players that they employ, and it is the fault of the South African system rather than the individual unions that it should be allowed to happen.
NO CENTRAL CONTRACTS
Unlike New Zealand, the players are not centrally contracted in South Africa, and that means the national body has no hold over them outside of during the international season.
A succession of Springbok coaches have looked enviously at the New Zealand system, a system which All Black coach Steve Hansen last week described as one of the biggest factors in his team getting through the Championship with hardly any injuries.
While the Wallabies, Springboks and to a lesser extent Argentina were decimated by injury, the All Blacks were pretty close to full muster for most of the competition.
According to Hansen this was because franchise coaches worked closely with the All Black management during the Super Rugby season in ensuring that the top players were not overplayed.
Meyer understandably cannot talk out against his bosses, but you could get a sense of his frustration when he commented on the issue at the post-match press conference in Nasrec.
“You have to admire the way New Zealand manage their players. The All Blacks play the same team in almost every test match. The guys from all over the world put their bodies on the line, but the way they have looked after players like Richie McCaw and Dan Carter is a big part of their success. They manage their players very well.”
Meyer said he had spoken to the New Zealand management and compared notes, and he gave the sense that he envied what the All Black coaches were being allowed to do.
It is understood that fringe players who have not played much will be released to play ITM Cup rugby now that the Championship is over (the All Blacks do have one remaining Bledisloe Cup test to look forward to on 20 October), but all the top players will be kept away from their provinces.
COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE TO THE NATIONAL INTEREST
That is the way it should be in South Africa, with players like Patrick Lambie, Tiaan Liebenberg and the other reserves probably needing some game time to ensure match sharpness after spending so much time on the bench.
But throwing the top players who have played all the Championship tests into the Currie Cup makes no sense and is surely counter-productive to the national interest with the end of year tour so near at hand.
It’s perhaps understandable after a sub-standard Currie Cup season that sponsors and administrators want to breathe some life into a flagging competition, but those stake-holders are just going to have to accept that the expanded Super Rugby season has turned what was once a galloping horse into a limping donkey. And injecting a full-strength element into the last week in 10 of a league season that has been played under-strength is not going to change that.
It may be important to the unions but it seems to undermine any drive for national good and if Meyer is forced by injury to leave his preferred players behind when the Boks leave for tour we may have to listen to him next year repeating his lament after Saturday’s game that certain team failings, like the defence, were down to inexperience.
There are some who justifiably think that excuse is disingenuous – a player selected to play international rugby should be good enough and experienced enough to compete – but it is nonetheless a fact that the All Black team that has swept all before it this year out-ranks the others in experience and it does take time for newcomers to settle at a new level.
And it is in games like the Boks will play overseas that new flyhalves Johan Goosen and Elton Jantjies should be growing into their status as international players.
8 Oct 2012, 12:03 pm
What concerns me is the excuses being made by HM. First he needs experience, then it’s Steyn’s kicking and now it’s inexperience. It’s a clear sign that he’s out of his depth! Instead of blaming things he needs to take a long hard look at himself, his coaching team and the team tactics. The AB’s traveled to Argentina then back to SA, played at altitude and whipped us??? This after we nearly beat them in NZ? We were so dominant in first 30 minutes and couldn’t convert that into at least 20 points. How many knock on’s? Was a bad day at the office for all the SA supporters….time for HM to start listening or better yet, fall on his sword!
8 Oct 2012, 12:05 pm
@XV-56: Can we start with Herr Meyer?
8 Oct 2012, 12:06 pm
@fitz1ella-57: haha, if we had to go back in time and line up all the bs predictions you had made we would still be sitting here next year you loser
i support the boks and only the boks buddy.
wake up.
8 Oct 2012, 12:07 pm
@Jeez-51:
Loubscher was a less than adequate VC player and is an average VC backline coach.
Van Graan is a nepotism by product picked my Heineken as a favour to his daddy!
McFarland is an exiled Jock with no defensive track record.
The fitness oke is a no-name brand doing what exactly?
Pffffft.
8 Oct 2012, 12:08 pm
@rangerman-11: Can any1 relay what Mallet said after the game?
I missed that discussion
8 Oct 2012, 12:09 pm
KEO your last sentence is the most telling. Meyer has denied everything this year and never admitted fault which is scary to say the least. Sticking with Morne and not playing a fetcher for 90% of the season are the most telling errors that hes never admitted fault to. Once these 2 aspects were sorted out, all it did was show how poor our current gameplan actually is and exposed the floors.
Watching the game live, there were so many things you can point out as just bad coaching. Why dont any of the forwards take the ball at pace? Why televise a box kick so badly that half the ABs go back for it and you dont change tac. There was a 3 man overlap by the time Pienaar kicked half the time. Why are the fwds allowed to get white line fever when again anyone in the backline could have scored. One of the worst defensive efforts by a Bok team ever. A lot of it is school boy stuff and came down to pisspoor coaching.
We performed better when the team was coaching itself!
8 Oct 2012, 12:10 pm
@rangerman-63: Still doesn’t excuse your kuk prediction on Friday night.
8 Oct 2012, 12:11 pm
@Transformation-60:
Nc nc nc – are you sure you are not brining that up cause Cheeky cannt get players and will be forced to play VC players next year.
8 Oct 2012, 12:12 pm
@papaown-65: sorry man, i have blockeed it all out
8 Oct 2012, 12:12 pm
@XV-56: Well said. Being provincially neutral I see the Boks coming 2nd best to provinces throughout the year. Makes absolutely no sense
8 Oct 2012, 12:12 pm
@rangerman-39:
the CC has acres of time and space that makes the most limited of players look like backline geniuses.
The boks biggest problems at the back,to my mind, are that we are unable to execute attacking plays at fullspeed underpressure. Add to that, that we do not look up when we receive a poor kick and immediately implement a kick return looking for ground. This is statistically a smart play but to my mind is indicative of our lack of confidence or mindset that we do not consider the immediate option that “it might actually be a kak kick” and there is a chance to run with it. And with that midset…everything such as support play is effected, eg: even the players that are supposed to get back and offer outside support immediately assume that the receiver is just going to kick return so don’t even bother getting back to offer a running option.
I’m pretty sure that if we addressed this issue half of carters kicks would be shown up as tosh.
Also, as South African supporters…do we never acknowlege a trend?
We want to can the backline coach now. Loubscher
Before that it was Muir..
and before that it was Allister Coetzee
and before that it was Rudy Joubert….etc,etc
Sa has huge issues amongst our backs playing phylosophy and not talent.
This needs addressing
8 Oct 2012, 12:12 pm
Meyer, up to now,has pointed fingers at everything that moves under the sun…..except himself.
8 Oct 2012, 12:13 pm
@Jeez-51: If you rember SARU only started to appoint any supporting staff like in April , all the guys you are talking about was already on contract this was Saru problem not HM , he does not appoint SARU does.
8 Oct 2012, 12:13 pm
@wnbb-67: well ow i feel really bad
get knobbed loser, remind us of your predictions for the sharks/ wp s15 semi
8 Oct 2012, 12:15 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-71: Intere4sting that in 86 the AB’s killed us up front we ran them to pieces at the back, now we kill them up front and they run to to pieces at the back.
8 Oct 2012, 12:16 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-71: your last sentence is basically exactly what i have been saying bud.
8 Oct 2012, 12:18 pm
Rangerman
Yeah it was. Its very hard how people try to take things away for cheap points. In time we will rebuild. But its money that will help. When i have settled down in terms of business i will give it another go. But as things stand too many chefs i guess. Same thing happened with young lions. I guess they tried to repeat the success of African Warriors with what they did in cricket. But Warriors were allowed to build a proper structure which we were never gona do while rushing.
8 Oct 2012, 12:19 pm
Where is Big Joe at 8.. We need somebody that can compete with the Great Kieren Reade. We have nobody offering that. Spies is a girl and a show pony with no aggression, Vermuelan is a great work horse but lacks the ball skills of a top international No 8, like Parrissi or Reade. BIG JOE is the best No 8 SA have. He has the expansive play and aggression to get the job done. Boks need to consider this man.
Reade destroyed us.
8 Oct 2012, 12:20 pm
@wnbb-72: Correct. And therein lies the problem. He fails to believe that HE, the great and all conquering Messiah can make mistakes in selection, strategy and more…
How I wish he had assistants like Mallet and Mitchell telling him the TRUTH on a daily basis….
Problem is, he has all these little adoring midgets who are either too sh y te scared to say anything, or are so in AWE of the Messiah, they can’t say anything – one of the 2.
If there is any truth in the story that Meyer and Rassie had a few differences of opinion, hence Rassie’s expulsion from the coaching box and sessions, well then I guess Meyer doesn’t want to hear the truth?
8 Oct 2012, 12:20 pm
Keo you are being a bit of a drama queen. The ABs are not as far ahead of the Boks as you suggest.
Haave a look at the tape again, specificall around the 76 min mark.
With the Boks camped in the ABs 22, the ABs collaps 2 mauls illegally, defend on their line with everyone offiside (ie. not behind the try line). Woodcock hands on the ground at scrum time, and Richie Mac plays the ball with his hands in the ruck while lying on his back making it appear that Strauss knocked it on. Had the ref picked up on one of any of those multiple offences, I believe the Boks would have had 7 more points. This is just one example.
I am not saying the ABs were not better ad deserved the win, but I do think Keo is getting a bit too excited and the gap is not as big as he says. I still don’t see this as a vintage AB team like 96. It’s more of a case of Aus and SA struggling with injuries and new management and making it easy for them.
Think about it. Had the RWC final v France and the narrow win over Ireland earlier this year been officiated failrly, the ABs would not be looking at he consecutive win record.
Granted, Richie and DC are the best players of their generation, but 2 players don’t make a team.
Boks did have a few soft moments. Had Jaco Taute & Bekker not missed their tackles, and the Boks scored in the example above it would have been a different game, and Keo would not be acting like a little girl.
8 Oct 2012, 12:21 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-71: philosphy
8 Oct 2012, 12:21 pm
@willievz-42:
so in 2008….the selections and experience avalible for selection was less than now?
ja…okay then
8 Oct 2012, 12:21 pm
I wrote before the match that one team wanted to win and the other had to win. I got it wrong …………………………………………………….Keo.
Nothing new there Keo.
You get it wrong more often than not.
8 Oct 2012, 12:21 pm
@wnbb-81: philosophy
8 Oct 2012, 12:25 pm
@capebull-73:
HM still appointed the coaches and they were all Bulls coaches… Even with the unprofessional situation created by SARU, HM made bad personnel appointments… Nieharber was open to sign…And SARU had to buy most of the coaches out of their Bulls contracts.. They could have done so with any coach with a contract…
These selections can be changed too, but will it take as long as it did for JW to appoint EdJones, which was only in his final year as coach?
8 Oct 2012, 12:26 pm
fukking helll sorry but we had **** defenders all over taute screwed up and let in two or three tries all on his fukkkin own!!! goosen was a fukking turnstile defender and jantjies wasnt much better. pienaar always been ***** and hougie is not a wingers arzehole. loosies ponderous bring in brussow when fit again for *** sake. too many soft tries by fukkking amateur sh!tty defending. we had no midfield of test level ability. all blacks still kAK but we need to play our fukkking best or else it aint gettting better.
8 Oct 2012, 12:26 pm
@Tbozknows-78:
Big Joe must be Old Joe by now Tboz.
In his prime he was magnificient. But that was not yesterday.
8 Oct 2012, 12:27 pm
Meyer is single-handedly messing up Taute’s career.The oke must be glad he is joining up with the Lions again this week.
8 Oct 2012, 12:27 pm
Might be best for SA if they did go up north, I can’t see them competing with the big boys and it looks like the Argies will overtake them next year – take the money and run like you’ve been suggesting.
8 Oct 2012, 12:27 pm
@skunk-77: ja bud its something that really pi sses me off about the NRU.
we also play a team called amaBhubhesi (well my mates still do, i am retired) and they have been pushed up into the 4th div even though they simply dont have the infrastructure or numbers to be competitive.
it ends up with aspiring clubs in black communities getting handed hidings from predominantly white clubs who have better infrastructure, playing facilities etc every weekend and the black clubs battle to attract supporters, players or sponsors as who wants to be assosciated with a team getting a hiding all the time.
KWANTU actually did very well considering their resources and came 3rd in our last year of playing them if i recall. The games were competitive and the foundations were there but then the NRU pushed them up to 3rd dive probably to satisfy politicians and they were destroyed or so i heard and the club fell apart.
tragic imo.
(i could be completely off track bud, heard most of this second or third hand)
8 Oct 2012, 12:27 pm
@wnbb-81:
okay
@rangerman-76:
well, not really but if you think so….
8 Oct 2012, 12:28 pm
AB’s are different class. We focus too much on aggression in SA. Not enough on skills and running in space. I like the aggression we have and attention to detail at the set piece but right now we are not showing enough perfection in the very things that we traditionally do well.
8 Oct 2012, 12:30 pm
@Blitzbok-86:
Good of you show up Blitzy.
Remember this?
5.Blitzbok:
6 Oct 2012, 15:43 pm
no blerry reason the boks should lose against these overrated arrogant turkeys.
Now I like my turkeys stuffed………………………………..and roasted.
8 Oct 2012, 12:31 pm
I wonder if the Bulls will recall the Bok coach during the end of year tour????
8 Oct 2012, 12:32 pm
@Jeez-85:
I am not sure what this drama is about Nieberwhats his name….
what exactly are his credentials when you ask the same of mcfarland?
because, mcfarland has been good enough to get the bulls winning multiple trophys in all formats. What has niebenheim done? How many trophy’s.
I want a defence coach that gives us a defence that is good enough without us losing anything on attack. Granted the boks attack and finishing is not up to much….but the stormers attack is positively shite having become tacklemonsters and little else.
8 Oct 2012, 12:33 pm
It was bs. A lot of guys left beacuse of work and since we did not have a large enough pool things fell apart. Its only up to getting strong leadership. Sad though…
8 Oct 2012, 12:33 pm
@cane-93: there aint no reason why boks should ever lose to these coksukkerz. any ******* team that buys a world cup dont deserve respect. the world knows your sh!thole team is a fake. france, world champions 2011.
8 Oct 2012, 12:33 pm
@wnbb-94:
you are a funny little prodder arent you.
8 Oct 2012, 12:33 pm
@cane-87: I agree about his age.. I just feel we need to be more inventive in that department. Like the new generation have it right, but I just feel we need Koster or someone to step up at No 8.
8 Oct 2012, 12:34 pm
@wnbb-88:
you mean like twakkie did with frans steyn?
or worse?
8 Oct 2012, 12:34 pm
@blik-80: Should read 67 min mark
8 Oct 2012, 12:35 pm
@skunk-96: very very sad.
that flyhalf and number 8 of yours were awesome.
*** that 8 hurt us plenty lol.
8 Oct 2012, 12:37 pm
@skunk-96: the thing about established clubs like oldboys is that there is a constant feeder of older players to the lower level teams and the social side is really the heart of any club
joke aside, i hope you guys get up and running again and that the NRU actually gives you guys the support this time.
8 Oct 2012, 12:40 pm
“Richie Mac plays the ball with his hands in the ruck while lying on his back making it appear that Strauss knocked it on.”
If you record the match and press the white button for slow-mo you will see all the cheating going on – not only McCheat lying around pushing the ball back to their side of the ruck – all of them were cheating like that.
8 Oct 2012, 12:41 pm
@Bok fan-70: SA Rugby needs to be changed from the very top. Who is the best businessman in SA? Rupert? Get him to restructure SA Rugby. Rugby is a business now and we are structured like its pre professional era.
8 Oct 2012, 12:43 pm
@Tbozknows-99:
Your forwards did enough to win this Test Tboz.
Something like 67% possession and 57% territory (memory only numbers).
I can only dream of what might have been, had we had those kind of stats in our favour.
8 Oct 2012, 12:50 pm
@cane-106: Thank you Cane, some sanity
Our forwards weren’t the problem on Saturday.
8 Oct 2012, 12:50 pm
@Transformation-60:
Indeed.
While some fools post their ‘preferred’ teams and players week in and week out some scribes out there like Rich actually hits the nail on the head.
Let me re-state a point I made in about April this year…
Meyer might be seen as a much better coach than PDV given his CV or pedigree, but he will fail for exactly the same reasons.
8 Oct 2012, 12:55 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-107:
Some fine tuning maybe Doc.
But I agree.
Goosen not to blame either, he didn’t train at all during the week, (I understand), so why start him in such a pressure cooker situation.
8 Oct 2012, 12:57 pm
@cane-109:
Because our educated rugby public would’ve demanded Meyer’s head on a tray if he ever had to include Morne into a match 22 again…
8 Oct 2012, 13:02 pm
I went to this match and at half time, with the Boks leading , remarked to a friend ” the ABs are going to win this .they are just awaiting their moment to strike .” And immediately after half time they scored. Whenever they ran the ball they seemed to have an extra man or overlap and looked like scoring. The Boks need to do a careful video analysis to see how they do it .
8 Oct 2012, 13:10 pm
@RL-104: I don’t know why more people don’t pick up on it. Bakkies does though.
I think this AB team (with Richie being the master leader) have mastered the art of cheating and not getting caught.
Granted, they are still a good team, but they get away with so much skulldugery.
8 Oct 2012, 13:14 pm
@Blitzbok-97:
wow….sore loser anyone.
You and bakkies should become boyfriend and boyfriend.
LOOOOSSSEEERRRR
8 Oct 2012, 13:15 pm
@PissAnt-108:
Yes, but will our rugby-mad, provincialist supporters have the desire for change?
Province before country.
The Tacitus-way.
8 Oct 2012, 13:16 pm
@blik-112:
And so you guys dont slow the ball down??
Do you not do anything in the rucks??
8 Oct 2012, 13:16 pm
@PissAnt-110:
We’ve just been told by Meyer that Morne’s burnt out so no way he could’ve gone back to him.
If Meyer picked a half fit Goosen then it makes what transpired even worse.
8 Oct 2012, 13:16 pm
@PissAnt-110: I would have thrown my phone away if I read somehwere that Morne was in – in hindsight it would have been better to start with Elton with Lambie as flyhalf cover – just not Morne, never, ever again.
8 Oct 2012, 13:19 pm
@Hurricane-115:
The AB’s have this technique where they drive over a ruck situation and just collapse like a house of cards on the other side, appearing as if they pushed the opposition off the ball when in fact they’re just sealing it off.
NZ have a very good team though, can’t dispute that.
8 Oct 2012, 13:19 pm
@RL-117:
Stem saam. Meyer had enough options not to gamble on Goosen.
8 Oct 2012, 13:20 pm
@Hurricane-115: The Bok players do, but get peanalised a greater percentage of the time than the NZ players do. As for yellow cards, Bob Dwyers stats say it all.
8 Oct 2012, 13:22 pm
How many times did woodcock put his hands on the ground to steady himself in the scrum on saturday without being peanalised. Jannie and Coenie gave him a good working over. Only illeagal tactics allowed him to save some.
8 Oct 2012, 13:24 pm
@willievz-114:
Said it before, take franchises away from unions.
So much of entitlement in SA Rugby…
8 Oct 2012, 13:25 pm
@willievz-114:
Oh but only really wanted to say;
“And that is why we will continue to fail”
8 Oct 2012, 13:25 pm
@blik-120:
Bob dwyer stats?? lol
What other Ozzie do you want to quote?
I believe when he posted that upi found a flaw, he included an extra game in his great stats.
If those are the ones from about 3 years ago.
8 Oct 2012, 13:26 pm
@blik-121: a blatant spear tackle right in front of the ref goes unpunished – Habana stiff arm tackled to the ground and ignored by their bought ref. Filthy cheats for sure.
8 Oct 2012, 13:28 pm
@Hurricane-124: Care to elaborate on what the flaw with the stats were? Otherwise I would trust a respected rugby expert and ex international coaches analysis before yours I think.
8 Oct 2012, 13:29 pm
Interesting question? Has Richie MCaw ever recieved an international yellow card in his 112 odd tests?
8 Oct 2012, 13:30 pm
@blik-121:
Oh well better go. You guys are on the cheating war path to try and make you feel better.
If it does then good but if you think that all teams cheat when you lose, you will never fix your team.Lets hope your team does not listen to the fans, dont need big 110+ kg men crying like the fans over woodcock putting his hand on the ground.
Later all
8 Oct 2012, 13:31 pm
@blik-112: It irritates me so much that even after the thrashing of Soweto ( part 2) that the Boks supporters still insist that we cheat our way to victory – have you guys no honour or appreciation for the game ?
And when will Saru realise that there is only one stadium /ground in SA that is the Boks House of Pain – Ellis Park ?
8 Oct 2012, 13:32 pm
This is the poit I am making. The aspect of the game where NZ are the furtherest ahead of anyone else is manipulating the ref.
On field:
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/richie-mccaw-reveals-how-he-reads-referees-20100729-10x5a.html
Or off field:
Paddy O’ Brain
8 Oct 2012, 13:34 pm
@stew-129: Please don’t refer to SOME Bok supporters as ALL Bok supporters. Not all of us live in cuckooland, where the Boks are always the victims……
Some of us live in the real world, the world in which the Boks are a long way off anything the AB’s do.
8 Oct 2012, 13:36 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-131: Please, the Boks are not far behind everything the ABs do, grow some balls. Just because Keo gets hysterical and changes his mind from day to day does not mean everyone should agree with what he says.
8 Oct 2012, 13:42 pm
You win some, you lose some…..that is the very nature of sport is it not ? We love blaming the coach, his assistants, the ref, the asst. refs, the TMO, SARU, the players and so on and so on ad infinitem…..just take it on the chin for fxxxsakes !! The Boks were beaten by the better team. We are deluding ourselves if we really believe that a different coach or one or two different selections would have changed the result. We got smashed ‘cos we weren’t good enough – finish and klaar !!
8 Oct 2012, 13:42 pm
@blik-132: My opinion has nothing to do with Keo’s. I have been outspoken about the Boks under Meyer since his appointment as Bok coach. I have been just as outspoken about how unprofessional we are in comparison, and how our failings in management, strategy and everything that has to do with the management of the game is FAILING US.
Our record will attest to the above.
I’m sick of the denialists, the ‘ever hopefuls’, the ‘blind sheeple’, who so desperately want to believe the Boks are anywhere CLOSE to what the AB’s are.
We COULD be, but don’t bank on it, if things stay the same.
8 Oct 2012, 13:43 pm
whats the similarity between dean greyling and omo?
ooh eh eh, just one cap, is ENOUGH!
8 Oct 2012, 13:45 pm
@PissAnt-108:
Indeed. You might as well add that “Mallett might be seen as a much better coach than Meyer given his CV or pedigree, but he will fail for exactly the same reasons”.
More generally, as far as I can see, there are quite a few pernicious myths that prevent SA rugby from understanding its own problems … e.g. the myth that SA has more talented players than anyone else; the myth that SA would easily beat anyone if only player A and coach C was replaced by player B and coach D; the myth that one can make the necessary changes from one Saturday to the next. Absurd stuff.
8 Oct 2012, 13:46 pm
@stew-129: well FNB stadium in Soweto will host part 3, 4 and 5 all the way up until 2015. That is right SARU the greedy pricks surrended home ground to the All Blacks for the next 3 years.
Now they are not all to blame for this horrible situation. They were aided by the incompetent KDK who surrended the GLRU right to host test matches in Lions country and because of this fools yellow back SARU will be hosting all test matches in future – no more test match match earnings for the unions. Newlands and the Guppy tank will be test match no go zones soon.
It is true!
8 Oct 2012, 13:46 pm
@stew-129:
Yep,no respect and so sour after every loss. Every one elses fault but there own.
@blik-130:
Paddy o brian,surely you are not blaming him now?
He left his head referee job. A frenchmen is now head ref.
We were told thats it now, we are not protected and we will start to lose. Funny how that did not happen.
8 Oct 2012, 13:47 pm
@rangerman-135:
Ok, lag vir die dag.
8 Oct 2012, 13:49 pm
@Thucydides-136:
At times I actually hope Mallet gets appointed.
After all, it was Mallet that called Bok supporters stupid.
As for our so-called rugby dominance…
Boks enjoyed a 64% win record pre-1990, currently it is around 63% – I don’t know where this perception comes from either.
8 Oct 2012, 13:54 pm
@Hurricane-138: I am not blaming it on Paddy on saturday, but I do believe there was an underhanded affect on the 16 match winning streak. The RWC officiating was very one sided. Usually the home team does get a few extra decisions their way, which is the norm, but the final v France was too disproportionate.
8 Oct 2012, 13:56 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-134: I am not saying the Boks deserved to win on Saturday. The ABs are clearly the best team. But the gap is not as big as Keo makes out imo.
8 Oct 2012, 13:57 pm
@stew-129: Oh, you are so right there about Ellis Park.
No better place for the Boks to play.
8 Oct 2012, 13:59 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-131: Sorry for my generalisation but i think you are the exception to the rule not the majority … Get so tired of hearing that one of the greatest players ever to play the game is constantly reffered to as a cheat … I know national pride is important but rugby , in my mind, should be followed by people who admire the game and not idiots who bring our game down to the level of soccer or even cricket
8 Oct 2012, 14:01 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-143: The only stadium that every nation fears …. Scares the willies out of any touring side .
8 Oct 2012, 14:01 pm
@PissAnt-140:
If one could fire Bok supporters (which would be a fairly good first step), Mallett would probably be the right guy for the job;-)
As for our pre-1990 record, it looks even less impressive if one adds that home-town refs probably boosted it considerably.
8 Oct 2012, 14:03 pm
Although late, blogging time is few
lol
Congrats to the AB’s and their supporters, they took what we threw at them and then klapped us,
As for the player debate??? HM is proving to be out of his depth yes but so is his coaching team, and this includes the lights man.
8 Oct 2012, 14:03 pm
@blik-141:
Lets not Fcck about here blik.
You are full of shiit.
Like Paddy runs the IRB. (he is now in charge of 7′s ref’s).
Like there is now a conspiracy for the AB’s to leap frog Lithuania’s record.
As for France in the WC final……….we nailed them.
This is a SA Website for rugby fans. Not girls.
8 Oct 2012, 14:04 pm
@stew-144: Richie MCaw has perfected the art of getting away with illegal tactics. He is a serial offender, but never gets peanalised. My question again is, has he ever had a yellow card in a Test match?
8 Oct 2012, 14:05 pm
@Thucydides-146: Exactly
We just aren’t as good and as feared as what we think we are. Those isolation years really gave us a false sense of superiority that we have YET to get over…….
8 Oct 2012, 14:07 pm
@blik-141:
France game?
Didnt they miss the kick to win the game?
What has that got to do with POB?
I really do not get some of you guys. You lost, ABs won.
This always happens, after a loss we get called cheats, we poach and then the Boks supporters bring up RWC 2011 and of course 2007 then comes the money card of 1995.
Same thing everytime.
8 Oct 2012, 14:08 pm
Its going to be like Ernie Else / Tiger Woods for the next few years.
“Ernie world number one”, but for the freaking Tiger.
AB’s number one and the rest of the world competing for number 2 spot.
8 Oct 2012, 14:09 pm
@ blik:
dont be afraid to call a spade a cheat, boet
after all, a cheat by any other name smell just as filthy
8 Oct 2012, 14:10 pm
@cane-148:
What you said does not make sense…
Like Paddy runs the IRB. (he is now in charge of 7?s ref’s). – during RWC 11 he was in charge and selected and alanalysed the refs.
Like there is now a conspiracy for the AB’s to leap frog Lithuania’s record. – just does not make any sense, no one is saying the Lithuania maffia are involved.
As for France in the WC final……….we nailed them. – no you did not as most non NZers would agree
This is a SA Website for rugby fans. Not girls. – I reply with a Betty White quote
“Why do people say “grow some balls”? Balls are weak and sensitive. If you wanna be tough, grow a ******. Those things can take a pounding.”
8 Oct 2012, 14:11 pm
@stew-145: Actually, on second thoughts please allow me to rephrase:
Springboks play at Ellis Park…Proteas play at Soccer City.
8 Oct 2012, 14:12 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-150: But pre -isolation we had a better record than the ABs. Putting it in perspective, and how small rugby is, if one tier one team is not around, it makes all other teams records look a lot better. e.g. if SA did not play NZ, we would have a better win/loss ratio overall.
8 Oct 2012, 14:12 pm
Van Graan is the attack coach.
Loubscher is the back line coach.
Who do you blame for the absolute lack of attacking play by our back line?
8 Oct 2012, 14:14 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-153:
How did the Doctors go?
They sort you out?
Anyway good call on the Retallick tackle. I did not even see that.Had to google it.
But i have the game on hard drive.Can you put the times down when you noticed all these penalties that ref missed. Cheers dude.
8 Oct 2012, 14:14 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-153: Agree bakkies… if it smells like ****, it probably is
8 Oct 2012, 14:14 pm
I’ve been wondering about the support staff for some time. None of these guys have any experience at any level outside of the Bulls larger. So how did they get the jobs. Add to that the experience they have with the Bulls is limited. This is not provincialism this is fact. Meyer has nobody to turn to to get a different perspective in terms of game plans etc because all his support staff were trained by himself. We pride ourselves on defence for crying out loud. Lets not even get into back line play suffice to say it is shocking at the moment. Meyer must start looking for international coaching experience now. White did and look at the difference Jones made. This simply because he gave Jake a different perspective.
8 Oct 2012, 14:15 pm
@blik-154:
“……….we nailed them. – no you did not as most non NZers…..etc, etc. etc.”. \
Most non NZers being WHO EXACTLY blik.
Losers like you and big hit?
8 Oct 2012, 14:16 pm
Congrats to the AB’s. Heineken “radio vreter” you better pull yourself towards yourself!! We outplayed ourselves. Look at the two diffrent halves we had. I though 2nd half we going to tear the AB apart, instead HM decided to hit the self destruct button. If we mannaged to play a similair game as against Australia in the second half it would have been a different outcome.
8 Oct 2012, 14:18 pm
@stew-145: Lions den will not host the All Blacks ever again – Newlands and Guppy tank will never ever host the cheats again either. Saturday was a dark day for rugby in SA, a dark day indeed and as you may have picked up I am not talking about the match..
Greedy SARU are pushing to take all the profits from hosting of test matches and keep it in their kitty. Lions got s.crewed big time. Profits from tickets sales +/- R30mil from the match is with that evil Jurie Roux and not with my beautiful Lions.
That is just plain wrong.
8 Oct 2012, 14:20 pm
@blik-156: We lost a lot not playing the international game for so long. We formed provincial laagers, which to this day are the STAIN that ruins our national rugby.
We played the victim whilst in isolation, and we went backwards in mindset instead of forward…….
When the professional era dawned, our mindset remained in the past, along with our administration and provincial laager mentalities.
We sat back for years saying things like, “If only the Boks were playing we would win this and win that blah blah blah”. There were no guarantees we would have won anything. But in our minds we were the best, an untested best, but still the best.
Too late to stave off the fanatical provincialism, it is now in our DNA. Isolation did far more than halt our rugby development……
8 Oct 2012, 14:20 pm
@cane-161: Everyone outside NZ!!!????? I don’t understand your question?
I can give you a specifc example if you like?
When I got into the office on Monday after the game. (I work in a big office with a group of nationalities in London, who are not particually into rugby, but most of them watched the game because it was a Workd Cup final). Scots, English, Chineese, Australian, Indian, etc.
I did not say a word, and they were talking about how they felt the French were cheated.
NZ’s are very good at rugby, yes consistently the best team. But why have a RWC if you just give it to the no1 ranked team.
8 Oct 2012, 14:21 pm
@stew-144:
It is a roundabout way of showing respect to Ritchie.
These same people who call Ritchie a cheat now, also called Sean Fitzpatrick one when he still played. However, the local newspapers were flooded with letters of admiration and respect from the SA supporters when he announced his retirement. Same will happen when Ritchie goes.
Best you ignore them.
8 Oct 2012, 14:22 pm
@Zandberg Jansen-162:
Thank you Joggie.
8 Oct 2012, 14:22 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-150:
Could argue that it also gave us a curious persecution complex. Combine that with a false sense of superiority, and you’ve got a recipe for how to avoid learning from mistakes … cf the weird line of reasoning that, since we are superior, the reason why we keep losing must be cheating by the other side, etc etc.
8 Oct 2012, 14:23 pm
@stew-144: In fairness its only two or three at the very most that call you cheats! in effect ingeneralising about the rest of us Bok supporters you are doing exactly what they are doing! There are plenty here that actually acknowledge that ABs are the best team at the moment. Many have congratulated you.
and just for the record I love McCaw! Met him a few years ago, when the Saders were down playing against the Sharks a real gentleman!
8 Oct 2012, 14:25 pm
@blik-165:
Get the stupid half wits to watch the game again then.
So suddenly Chinese and Indians, are authorities on the game are they.
8 Oct 2012, 14:25 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-164: I agree with you, we are behind NZ, I am not disputing that. That’s what I am saying too.
What I am saying is that they have evolved their game to account for the ref, where we are behind. Also their adminsitration is more professional than ours, so they get treated better by the IRB and officials.
Have you noticed whenever SA has a undiplomatic coad (usually someone who struggles with Englis), the refs are much harder on us? But when we have a likable forward thinking coach, the refs are easier?
Compare there refereeing of: Maakgraaf, Straulie, PDivvy vs Kitch, Nic Mallet, Jake White
English vs Afrikaans, maybe??
8 Oct 2012, 14:28 pm
@cane-170: Nope only NZers know anything about rugby
8 Oct 2012, 14:29 pm
My coach would me Mallet, i think he has grown some since his first stint.
My team would be the following taking into account overseas based players. Be it I have not seen some of them play for some time now and would hope they still have the same form as about a year ago.
15 Ludick/ Willie
14 JPP
13 J fourie
12 F Steyn
11 Habana
10 Lambie
09 Hougaard
08 Kanko
07 Coetzee
06 Brussouw
05 Mostert
04 Etsebeth
03 JDP
02 Bismark
01 Beast
Reserves:
16 Brits
17 Cilliers (covers both sides)
18 Alberts(yes at lock)
19 Daniel
20 Pienaar
21 Basson
22 JDJ
8 Oct 2012, 14:30 pm
@Sharksgirl-169:
Agree,it is only a couple. But these couple who think all of South Africa and now looking at Bliks posts, the indians and chinese as well. There is at least 3 billion people there that are backing Bliks and Bakkies theories……lol
Stand ups both of them….oh and their 3 billion followers.
8 Oct 2012, 14:30 pm
@RL-64:
“The fitness oke is a no-name brand doing what exactly?”
Liam Messam the ABs primary ball carrier was looking for the Beast in the defensive line as the soft spot all evening long.
but managed to find him only twice to get through, the Beast was surely shown high mobility and fitness this Test.
8 Oct 2012, 14:32 pm
@blik-156:
Australia and NZ started to revolutionize their way of playing during the 80′s. The same period that SA was not part of the international fold. When we came back in 1992, they’ve move way ahead of us and we’ve been playing catch up ever since especially wrt NZ.
The problem we are currently facing is that we believe we can haul them in playing the same kind of rugby we did during the time before isolation. Hence we keep hearing kak like, “playing to our traditional strengths” ie big, strong (dumb) forwards and a kicking fly half. (See Meyer’s 1st squad/team for the Eng series)
8 Oct 2012, 14:33 pm
@Sharksgirl-169: guppygirl it is only cheating if you get caught by the ref or the assistant refs or you WAG
8 Oct 2012, 14:33 pm
@Thucydides-168: Spot on
Brilliantly said. There has to be a reason as to why the once mighty Boks lose – it can never be because we just aren’t good enough…..The fables, legends and fairytales that were born in the isolation years, just won’t die (mostly because of a stubborn refusal….)
@blik-171: So instead of us accusing and wailing and the sort, would it not be better to just up our game? In all facets?
8 Oct 2012, 14:34 pm
@Hurricane-174: Why can’t someone outside a major rugby playing nation not understand the game. Actually it shows that someone without any major attachement can spot bias. I don’t know much about football, but I can follow the game.
8 Oct 2012, 14:36 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-178: Good point, we need to adapt. I just don’t like the whole ethos of cheating and manipulating.
8 Oct 2012, 14:38 pm
@sharks_lover-173: Pissy was talkng about ” those” who post team sheets.
8 Oct 2012, 14:39 pm
@blik-179:
” Why can’t someone outside a major rugby playing nation not understand the game. ”
Cos even we struggle with some of the calls.
You cant tell me when a ref blows a penalty, everytime you know exactly what that was for.
Even commentators and explayers still get it wrong.
So sorry if i struggle to believe you when you say the chinese and indians believe we cheated in the RWC.
8 Oct 2012, 14:40 pm
@Hurricane-158:
sorry hurri, i am too busy to note down times with the infringements but can tell you it ranges from the kickoff up until halftime so would more or less mimic the clock countdown.
doing the second half list is more than enough for me inbetween my work commitments so will not list times with the 2nd half infringements either.
importantly, you must remember the list is a cursory glance so the total number of infringements would go up considerably. as well the fact that your most blatant *red card / penalty try* level type of offenses came in the second half.
8 Oct 2012, 14:41 pm
@blik-159:
yip
where a kiwis involved pretty much
8 Oct 2012, 14:43 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-183:
lol
…… oh were you serious?
8 Oct 2012, 14:44 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-183: Bakkies, you should do a few Youtube videos with all your ‘discoveries’ and ‘conspiracies’. I’m guessing……4 million hits from NZ alone within 2 hours of uploading.
8 Oct 2012, 14:45 pm
I congratulated the ABs on their win on Saturday.
I acknowledge that the ABs are the better team, by some distance.
But I still feel the French was cheated in that final. Joubert just couldn’t give any of four, five kickable penalties to the French. And who can blame him.
8 Oct 2012, 14:45 pm
Ok all have fun, better go.
All this laughter (thanks Blik and Bakkies ) is keeping me up
CYA later
8 Oct 2012, 14:45 pm
To be honest, as much as I agree the Boks took a beating on Saturday and as much as I agree that the All Blacks were comprehensively better, I don’t agree that we are that far off…. We have a long way to go, but there are only a few areas that need improvement. There isn’t a fundamental flaw in our rugby team, rather just a few areas which need vast improvement.
Here they are:
1) Our loose trio lacks mobility. Those three monsters look excellent on attack and make bruising runs with ball in hand, but on defense, we were easy to stretch. As much as a I love the big guy, I would replace Willem Alberts with Schalk Burger or Marcel Coetzee.
* Apart from that, Our pack is really good and the introduction of Heinrich to the squad will only make us more of a threat.
The real problem is our backline.
2) We need a complete change in mindset of our backline. We have a scrumhalf who wants to be our game-controller… The problem with this is that he has to take his eyes off the ball when it is in the ruck and look around the field to see where everyone is. This takes time and means the ball sits in the ruck that extra few seconds, which gives the opposition defense a chance to re-organise….. We need a change in mindset. Our flyhalf needs to be the game controller and we need a scrumhalf whose priority focus is on getting quick ball to the flyhalf… If he can snipe occassionally and box kick occassionally, that’s great, but his primary focus should be on quick ball. Let the flyhalf do the game=controlling… This is vitally important.
3) Our coach is afraid to select smaller guys. This is a big problem. If you have too many lumps in the backline, you have no balance. The big guys can smash it up and create the holes in defense, but you need some smaller, steppier players like Gio Aplon to run through the holes… This is called balance…. We need to celebrate the talents of Gio Aplon, Paul Jordaan and numerous others… If they are allowed to play their natural game alongside big enforcers, like Frans Steyn, JP Pietersen etc, then we will have a balanced team with an attacking edge.
4) Flyhalf – we are on the right track with this one, but we should not have thrown Goosen and Elton into the deep end like that. It is no wonder why they are missing kicks etc. They are young and nervous. We should have started with Lambie for 5 or 6 test-matches and brought these guys in gradually.
5) Game plan – We need to add more dimensions to our game plan. One game plan renders us predictable.
6) Offloading in the tackle. The try Habana scored was from brilliant offloading in the tackle… More of that please.
7) Coaches – Ricardo Launscher, Louis Koen and John McFarland all need to go. They are not good enough to be coaching the Springboks.
If we address the above issues, we will improve.
The key to any good rugby team is BALANCE.
8 Oct 2012, 14:47 pm
Rico Gear was swatting those Bokkie forwards off like flies.
8 Oct 2012, 14:47 pm
@blik-171: Wont believe what you are saying.
8 Oct 2012, 14:47 pm
I really don’t understand how the brains trust at the Boks look at things. Last week I posted that the AB always look to shift the ball to the opposite end when they field a missed kick or when they take a quick throw in.
In the 26th minute the Boks kick the ball down field. It is caught close to the touch line on the (AB) right hand side, about 60m from the Bok goal line. Two passes later is is on the left hand side where Read (I think) makes a run, draws to defenders before off loading to Whitelock just outside the Bok 22. Whiteside set of on a run to score a try with only TWO Bok cover defenders (Kirchner and Goosen) trying to stop him before he scored his try.
Now I ask myself these questions:
-Have the Bok coaching staff never seen that the AB always do this when they launch an attack from the back after a missed kick or when they take a quick throw in?
- How could the AB players cover about 60m to score a try yet our players could not cover 50 m across to stop the try?
8 Oct 2012, 14:48 pm
@RL-181:
freedom of speech i say lol
8 Oct 2012, 14:48 pm
@Hurricane-174: Oh okai, 3 billion imaginery friends then?
8 Oct 2012, 14:48 pm
@NZINCHINA-190: It was Hosea who played on Saturday.
8 Oct 2012, 14:49 pm
@RL-177:
8 Oct 2012, 14:49 pm
@Kaizan-189: Good post.
8 Oct 2012, 14:49 pm
The standard Keow – a silly, meaningless little rant from a silly, meaningless little man. Minimal fact, no analysis, plenty made up stuff and a smattering of inaccuracies. Standard keow, snivelling to suck up to the AB’s. The AB’s are a good team, a clever team, an experienced team, a well coached team but supermen they ain’t. If Meyer was half decent he wouldn’t have played an already partly crocked Goosen who has no confidence in his own kicking. That alone would have saved 5 pts and gained 8. Those early points could have made a big difference.
As a few commentators point out (Blik you’re up), a competent ref would have prevented a lot of AB spoiling. 7 points. Don’t beieve me – see the Sunday Tribune ref column.
As Pissant pointed out, the Boks are babies as regards the number of Test caps next to the AB’s experience. The Boks should not have relaxed after beating the Aussies but focussed on the basics of top level rugby. Set pieces, kicking, marking, turnover ball, patience and ball control. BUT, who was going to help them in this? Heyneke and his crew? We wait with bated breath,
8 Oct 2012, 14:50 pm
187 Willie are you really that desperate that you have to bring that up every day?
8 Oct 2012, 14:50 pm
@nama1-166:
listen, lets get something straight here.
maybe you would gatkruip away with the likes of macaw, now and in the future.
that is your right.
dont extrapolate it to mean many others around here would, ok
ek is nie n gatkruipertjie nie, ou pelletjie
reechee macaw is vuilgoed, binne en buite
i would sooner pull my pants down in a cape town nightclub on the greenpoint strip than tell dishonest untruths about his playing ability.
no
i tell it for it is
filthy
8 Oct 2012, 14:51 pm
@Kaizan-189: Agree with much of what ur saying.
8 Oct 2012, 14:51 pm
Willie who cares which one it was, same result.
8 Oct 2012, 14:52 pm
@Kaizan-189: Well said, agree
8 Oct 2012, 14:52 pm
@Kaizan-189: I agree with point 6 the most. This is by country mile why AB are so good, for this and only this reason. This is the CORE concept of good running rugby. Yes, its a contact sport but you only move forward avoiding contact. Otherwise you will never score tries!!! Look at the Aussie game. If 3 of those offloads didnt happen, NO TRY.
8 Oct 2012, 14:54 pm
@Hurricane-185:
no, of course not… duh…?…
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-186:
you mean like a video similar to the one pointing out nz cheating in the 2012 trinations? ok, will consider.
8 Oct 2012, 14:55 pm
@Kaizan-189: POint 6 is basically the way the Sharks now play the game, but in saying that they still have a way to go to get it to the kiwi styles etc, but it seems even the Sharks players in the team are losing that under HM
8 Oct 2012, 14:56 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-205: Yes Bakkies, just like that one that Aussie fellow put up. I just think yours would be far more entertaining and informative
Give it a bash, c’mon.
8 Oct 2012, 14:56 pm
@husky-198: agree, too much hystirics from keo
8 Oct 2012, 14:59 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-205: Yep Bakkies, if you watch from about min 65-67, it’s a good example of how they cheat and get away with it.
8 Oct 2012, 15:01 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-200:
Well, you’ll be one of a few who thinks that. The rest of the rugby playing world, who can appreciate a good rugby player, will give him his dues.
Ps: Remember that Ritchie and Big Joe captained their respective countries in the Junior World Cup at the same tournament. Big Joe was named player of the tournament despite SA ending 7th or 8th.
Now tell me, who will be remembered as a rugby great? Ritchie or Joe?
8 Oct 2012, 15:04 pm
Blik give it up son, you can bleat with Bakkies until the cows come home, nothing is going to change in the rugby world we are just too good at the moment, your best bet is to try and overtake the worst Australian side in decades and reclaim the number two spot.
8 Oct 2012, 15:05 pm
@Blitzbok-97: Blitzie – while I love your attitude (there is NO reason that the Boks should EVER lose to the ABs) and I agree that the RWC11 was a farce (bryce lawrence’s performances, then awarded NZ ref of the year. The reffing in the final etc), for Saturday’s game we must acknowledge the ABs were much better and they are the #1 team on the planet.
RWC11 is the past, and we cant carry on complaining about it (like Kiwis did about 07). Boks must move forward and beat the ABS every time they play in SA, and 50% of the time they play them in NZ (or anywhere else).
8 Oct 2012, 15:05 pm
@Kaizan-189:
Re point 6:
Won’t happen as long as we have a coach who calls points of contact, “collision points” and believes that you should be able to “dominate” your collision points if you want to win a test.
8 Oct 2012, 15:06 pm
@NZINCHINA-211: I agree NZ are no 1 at the moment, but I will still object when I see bias or cheating.
8 Oct 2012, 15:08 pm
@willievz-187: Agree with you 100%
8 Oct 2012, 15:08 pm
@nama1-210: which player had a series of career threatening injuries?
8 Oct 2012, 15:09 pm
50% of the time you play in NZ you can’t beat us 50% at home start setting some realistic goals
8 Oct 2012, 15:10 pm
Big tiitie you ready for your annual beating?
8 Oct 2012, 15:14 pm
@NZINCHINA-218:
Biggles lives for his annul beating.
it’s a British thing.
8 Oct 2012, 15:18 pm
Caner must be, would be nice to hand out a hiding but not quite the same now with all the Kiwi’s and island boys wearing white.
8 Oct 2012, 15:20 pm
@Zandberg Jansen-204:
To get the perception right, the Boks forwards were not bad, they put on a fight until the 60st minute.
The ABs were awarded their first penalty at the 52 minute, and then the sending off Dagg when the ball was clearly out.
It was a demolition job, although nothing in the scale of what we experienced in 1996 because then the Boks team was much better than the current one.
8 Oct 2012, 15:23 pm
Honda if you know so much about these corrupt refs why are you still punting?surely one bet is all it takes when you already know the results?
8 Oct 2012, 15:23 pm
@NZINCHINA-220:
Did you know NZC,
that England has more Registered Rugby Players,
than NZ has in it’s total male population.
8 Oct 2012, 15:24 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-207:
i have a lot of work as it is and should neve be on here, so no promises.
@blik-209:
thats all they know, blik.
take away the cheating and blow them under the same laws and thats all they are JAKRN (just another kak rugby nation).
@nama1-210:
you’re a dreamer boet, and too easily enarmoured with the kiwi’s.
have a spine, grow a backbone, be your own man.
rugby great..?. blegh..?..
like i said, the day i ever have anything remotely complimentary to say about that scumbag is the day you’ll find me in a greenpoint nightclub with no pants singing ‘its raining men’ or ‘ymca’….
in short…
it aint gonna happen
8 Oct 2012, 15:26 pm
Our forwards always man up (well, usually). With our backs, it always looks like men against boys, as the AB run rings around us, even from set pieces. And our backline
attack is clueless & rudderless. The whole coaching structure needs to be examined – what are Ricardo Loubser’s credentials to be coaching a national side?
Why is it the ABs are always looking for the offload & ways to keep play going? Our mindset is personified in one play I think back on – Marcel Coetzee takes the ball, lowers his head & charges headfirst at the opposition, is isolated & turned over – no idea where his support is. ABs always go in aware of where they are , where their support is & how they are going to keep the ball alive.
We are light years behind & I think a lot of “Bok supporters like me are waking up to that fact.
8 Oct 2012, 15:27 pm
@Hondo-221:
Hey Hondo……………………………remember this one:
Hondo:
6 Oct 2012, 17:24 pm
Such a Kiwi arrogance
Coming to J’burg to play a test with two hopeless PI scrumhalves
A mind boggling
8 Oct 2012, 15:28 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-224: Bakkies, you owe it to your fans.
8 Oct 2012, 15:29 pm
@cane-226: I don’t think Hondo remembers when her menstrual cycle was last regular….never mind something she said last week.
8 Oct 2012, 15:30 pm
Keo is spot on. We were PUMPED , no excuses . About time us Saffers cut the cr@p and get of rid of the mentality that we only lose when we play badly or if the ref makes a few calls against us. The AB’s think quicker, execute quicker, do the basics (ie kicking the ball out) better and at least in the backs are physically superior to us. It doesnt help the players one bit either that we get a complete clean out when a new coach arrives. We have to many hidden agenda’s in our rugby where coaches can’t work with each other. Henry goes and Hansen slips into the job. Are we surprised they stay so good? and believe me the next AB coach willbe identified and slipped into the national setup to work under Hansen… That will never happen here…. Div goes and straight away Meyer starts making the changes. Fat lot of good Koen has done our kickers? We played a dreadful AUS team and if we think we took anything out of that game then we really have our heads up the proverbial.
8 Oct 2012, 15:33 pm
@cane-223: Chaps as much as it pains me to say…well done on Saturday. My beloved boks were simply outclassed by a brilliant AB team.
8 Oct 2012, 15:34 pm
Caner I didn’t know that, they should be a lot better then.
8 Oct 2012, 15:35 pm
@foxpox-229: Well put. We have all the talent in the world in terms of playing resources but our set-ups and approach to professionalism is no where near as good as NZ’s.
8 Oct 2012, 15:39 pm
Cheers Skeppie just a massive performance to go to your house and win, but do do it with style was special.
8 Oct 2012, 15:40 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-228:
Is Hondo a Lady?
8 Oct 2012, 15:44 pm
@Skeppie-230:
Not as outclassed as you losers think Skeppie.
Your forwards did their job.
All things clicked for us. Sometimes thats the way of the world.
8 Oct 2012, 15:53 pm
‘the way of the world’….
what a larf
more like the dirthy filthy underworld
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-227:
hehehe
i’ll see what i can do
8 Oct 2012, 15:53 pm
@NZINCHINA-233: Yup it was pretty I must say that. Bearing travel in mind and the fact that you were under the pump in the first 20mins it ended up being a great performance. Putting those crazy AB backs in tandem with a no8 like Kieran Reid is seriously hard to defend against.
8 Oct 2012, 15:55 pm
@cane-235: Yup our pack has been performing well but your backs are just in another class. It’s scary to think that someone like Nonu is possibly a “weak” link in that backline and even he is world class….scary stuff!
8 Oct 2012, 15:56 pm
Skeppie Read is sensational no other word for him, the next AB captain in waiting and he’ll do a fine job, where next for your boys?
8 Oct 2012, 15:58 pm
Give it up Bakkies nobodies listening dance of the desperates stuff
8 Oct 2012, 15:59 pm
@cane-235: Yup our forwards were good but its not as simple as things just clicking for the ABs. If thats the case then it happens far to much for my liking. McCaws win/played stats will probably never be beaten (another Bradman) and is another indication of just how good the ABs are
8 Oct 2012, 15:59 pm
@NZINCHINA-239: Read is class, all over the park. SA wish we had a no 8 like him.
8 Oct 2012, 16:02 pm
@NZINCHINA-239: Yeah he is special but I suppose playing behind a very good pack and being the link man to a simply brilliant backline makes his job a lot easier. I reckon we are fine in terms of personell but we need to work out how we are going to play the game…right now we are stuck between an ugly kick chase game plan but also trying to run the pill where we can. We need to embrace a more refined game plan. Once we have this in place and with our youngsters getting a bit more experience we will be back with a bang.
8 Oct 2012, 16:03 pm
Blik he runs beautifull lines, has silky hands, loves the tight stuff and has better skills than most backs, have I covered everything?
8 Oct 2012, 16:06 pm
Skeppie, your forwards are there but need to play for the full 80 without being rude your backs are just farken awful they need a complete overhaul and a coach like Wayne Smith to teach them real back play.
8 Oct 2012, 16:13 pm
@Big Hit-216:
Ritchie had his fair share of injuries as well.
8 Oct 2012, 16:19 pm
November 2012, after the Rugby World Cup exit and many insults to Peter dd Villiers, everyone was singing the following song pressurise SARU to appoint Heyneke Meyer;
Heyneke, Heyneke sal jy die Bokke kom lei?
Heyneke, Heyneke
Generaal, generaal soos een man, sal ons om jou val.
Generaal Heyneke. Heyneke,
(English Version)
Heyneke can you come and lead the Boks?
Heyneke, Heyneke
General, General we will fall around you as one.
General Heyneke.
Are you all still singing the song now !!!! You all getting what you deserve
8 Oct 2012, 16:23 pm
@NZINCHINA-245: Well the AB’s have had Wayne Smith and we have Ricardo Laubser….Heyneke is by trade a forwards coach and he already has a specialist forward coach on staff so I guess it indicates a lack of empahsis on back play within our structures. That lack of emphasis shows in the way the AB backline carved us up.
8 Oct 2012, 16:28 pm
@bokfan1-212: RWC11 may be in the past but no need to stop anyone bringing it up all the time. Us kiwis quite enjoy being reminded of it on a daily basis
I hope we’ll be having the same conversations in July 2015
8 Oct 2012, 16:32 pm
@rugbinho-247: drugs?
8 Oct 2012, 16:35 pm
@Skeppie-248: smith is not the AB backline/attack coach anymore, he is the Chiefs assistant exclusively and has been in Argentina for the past 2 weeks conducting coaching clinics.
the ABs are now manned by Shag, Fossy & Foxxy…
8 Oct 2012, 16:48 pm
I will happily have a grand against keo that we finish higher than the ABs next season.
8 Oct 2012, 16:52 pm
@DEE DAH-252: you mean the yeah the ABs will be without McCaw, Carter and Nonu?
i reckong we will take them too
8 Oct 2012, 16:58 pm
McCaw only missing until June, Carter will also be there sorry youll have to wait until after 2015
8 Oct 2012, 17:04 pm
I have not read any of the other posts so i make no comments against anyone,but my own take of the game was men v boys.The two AB centres smith and nonu carved us up the whole game,taute was out of his depth and ou tjoppie de villiers is finished at test level.The whole forward pack was very average today,and for all the ones who were saying vermeulen is the next bok No8 please think again as he is a bloody donkey and it showed against the AB`S,oh for a reuben kruger or an andre venter at flank,and we badly need another os du randt at prop as beast and du plessis are powder puff and i have written enough i could go on and on .The AB`S showed on saturday they are the best rugby team on the planet.
8 Oct 2012, 17:11 pm
@Kaizan-189: Excellent post. Well said.
8 Oct 2012, 17:12 pm
@cane-234: He just carries on like one….
8 Oct 2012, 17:13 pm
@NZINCHINA-254: oh, so they’ll be there for RC 2013?
NICE
8 Oct 2012, 17:15 pm
@blueboy-255: i bet you think spies is the answer @ 8
8 Oct 2012, 17:20 pm
@Transformation-251: It’s Shag, Fossie and Aussie. Foxxy is just a selector as far as i know
8 Oct 2012, 17:51 pm
Keo the Predictor strikes again!. Should become a movie, serial comedy off course.
8 Oct 2012, 17:58 pm
@NZINCHINA-217: That is a VERY realistic goal.
Did the ABs stop believing they can win a RWC over the 24 years? Even though they got knocked out time after time? No? Exactly.
SA has the players and the potential to beat NZ EVERY time, so 50% is very realistic. The correct, natural order of world rugby will be restored and the Boks will regain their positive win record against all nations.
1 or 2 things holding the Boks back, if they are corrected, then let the games begin
Enjoy the gloating while you can. The ABs are brilliant right now, but it wont last forever
8 Oct 2012, 18:36 pm
A player the Boks really miss is Juan Smith. Alberts is not an 80 min player. I would play him off the bench. Can Pieter Steph du Toit develop into a quality blindside flank?
8 Oct 2012, 19:26 pm
@gonzo-260: quite right, aussie is the third spoke in the wheel…foxxy is indeed a selector…
8 Oct 2012, 19:42 pm
Sonny Bill was not even playing on Saturday. How lucky were the Boks!!!
8 Oct 2012, 20:10 pm
The “out of the blue” selection of Taute at centre was a ridiculous mistake reeking of bias. The JdJ/JdV combo would have been way more prepared for the AB’s. The Stormers combo proved that in S15. Size or no size. None of these youngsters should have been bled in the Championship, bat Etzebeth who was initiated against England. Lambie’s experience and intuitive coolness was missing too. There are just too many contradictions in HS’s statements. A bit like Mitt Romney IMO. Blinded by the Light.
8 Oct 2012, 20:17 pm
Can somebody not just cull this impostor out of his goddamn blind alley delinquency already.., this moron is leading the Boks down the slippery slope of nonentity to the goddamn bottom of the ocean and nobody is batting a damn eyelid about it yet.
8 Oct 2012, 20:47 pm
@fitz1ella-267: Worst goddamn coach known to mankind: Heineken Mania, aka, the kamikaze minesweeper.
8 Oct 2012, 20:50 pm
@Peter Mkata-265: yhey ungayithethi lonto…if sbw was @ soccer city yoh yoh bekuzakunuka irhuluwa!
8 Oct 2012, 20:51 pm
HM and JDV should be shown the door. Mallett to come in and sort this sh it out.
8 Oct 2012, 20:57 pm
@garth-270: Amen. But realistically, we can only dare to hope that he replaces his coaching team or pressure is put on him to do so.
8 Oct 2012, 23:05 pm
@bokfan1-262: what do you mean it wont last forever – it already has
8 Oct 2012, 23:33 pm
@wpstormerbok-118: and this is the exact technique the Boks used to protect the ball right through the first half, blatantly flopping on and over the tackled player. First time the AB’s do it, at about the 27 min mark, you hear a little Bok forward squeeking to the ref “Sealing off sir!”. Classic – he should know, cos his team had done it about 8 times by that point, all penalizable!
When you are you guys going to open your eyes and see that your own team infringes just as much as any other team, AB’s included? I counted 17 Bok infringements in the first 27 minutes of the test, none of which were penalised and some of which preceded penalties awarded against the AB’s. For the first 60 mins of this game the referee was only watching one side – the All Blacks – if he had been reffing your side as well the All Blacks would have put 60 points on you in this game.
The fact is that you guys had the benefit of the most biaised referring performance since Barnes in 2007, home advantage, altitude advantage, and an All Black travel schedule that you said would show us how tough it was to be the Boks. Yet despite all that, you got a thrashing.
You are deluding yourselves if you think the ref had ANYTHING to do with the loss. But carry on for all I care, because it seems to be distracting you from what you need to do – improve your rugby skills, coaching and management.
8 Oct 2012, 23:38 pm
@gonzo-260: Aussie McLean was the ugly guy in the coaches box, Wiki says:-Brian “Aussie” Mclean is a professional rugby union coach, and the current defence coach of the All Blacks.
[edit] Coaching careerMclean has had more than 20 years coaching experience from club to international level, most recently as Assistant Coach of Samoa at the 2011 Rugby World Cup. He lead the New Zealand Under 19 team to five world championships, including three victories, won titles with Canterbury in 2001 and 2004, provided analysis and coaching for the Crusaders (1999–2000) and was Assistant Coach with the Hurricanes (2006–2008).[1]
He was appointed as the All Blacks defence coach in 2011, following the appointment of Steve Hansen as head coach. He had worked with Hansen in 2001 winning the NPC title (now ITM Cup) and retaining the Ranfurly Shield.[2]
8 Oct 2012, 23:44 pm
All Wiki has on Ricardo is this:-Ricardo Ian Peter Loubscher, born 11 June 1974 in Colesberg (South Africa), is a South African rugby union player, who has played for South Africa since 2002, and for the Sharks in Super Rugby.
He plays as a back (1,80 m and 83 kg).
He has played provincial rugby in the Currie Cup for Natal Sharks
No mention of any coaching pedigree at all. How come he got the job? Is it a political appointment?
9 Oct 2012, 00:42 am
@Transformation-251: Actually Fox is just a selector. The coaches are Hansen, Aussie McLean, and Ian Foster.
9 Oct 2012, 00:49 am
@bokfan1-262: Agree with all but your second paragraph. SA doesn’t currently have the players to beat the AB’s everytime they play. That is not to say that you can’t beat NZ, as any team can lose on the day including the All Blacks, but the current AB team is so strong that it could be expected to beat the Boks at least 3 out of every 4 games.
Nex year and the year after are different stories, and I expect 2014 to be a particulary difficult year for the All Blacks.
Andrew
9 Oct 2012, 01:03 am
From an All Black supports point of view,
I don’t think the boks are that far off the pace,just need to change a few players around,i do apologize if i have miss-pelt some of these names,
here are some players that i would have in your team,
6.Schalk Burger(once back from injury)Sensational player at the breakdown confrontation
7.Heinrek Brusouw
I rate this guy in the top 6 over the ball fetchers in the world Rugby,it astounds me he is not in boks squad at the least
8.Keegan Daniel
Not very big,but in terms of mobility and skill level,no question
Hougard a waste on the wing,he would be a better option at halfback,one player i was really impressed with at Super rugby level was Willie Le Roux,looked a real find on the wing,Lambie or Tate would be a much better option that Kurshner at fullback,De Jong to parnter De Villiers in the centres.
And just finally i would stick with Johaan Goosen,depending on his injury,he reminds me very much of a NZ first five,not afraid to take it to the line,to beat a team like the All Blacks,you have got to attack them,the Morne Steyn high kick game may work 1 in 10 times,but your outside backs are never going to develop,I cant believe the criticism of Bryan Habana,i would hate to think how many more tries he would have scored on the end of an all black back-line,he is a sensational player,put it this way,imagine if he had not been in the boks in the last 4 years,scary thought really,which player would have replaced him..?,i cant think of one.
Besides.if the Argentina can get Graham Henry,Why not Chase Wayne Smith as a back-line coach.
9 Oct 2012, 01:20 am
@All Black DNA-278:
Besides.if the Argentina can get Graham Henry,Why not Chase Wayne Smith as a back-line coach.
because Smith will not coach the Boks, period.
GH had a soft spot for the Argies, I dont think Smith has a soft spot for SA
9 Oct 2012, 01:41 am
look we did get found out….BUT we need to stay the course. Please don’t panic and revert to the “old ways”
9 Oct 2012, 07:43 am
Couple of points:
-need more mobile pack (we were 50Kgs heavier! than the AB’s); Good for 10 man game, but are we still playing that?
-I believe we run too fast into contact, making passing/adjustment/offloading really hard. Start a bit slower, have acceleration to go to (JDV is a good example of having 1 pace- flat out)
-Marcell=smaller JPotgieter. Do we need this type of player? Apart from Willem from time to time, has this type been effective at all over last few years
-Little team work – remember Ruan making a line break in the 1st half and having only Fourmeters Daylight to pass to? Where’s the teamwork? AB’s greatest strength is their teamwork, s’tru
-Constant hulk smash(!) makes the guys tire easily and injury prone. Use that when needed, not as default
-our national coaches need to have the opportunity to finally learn a new style (Hopefully HM and his bosses can acknowledge this, not panic and revert, fire, or make wholesale changes). Our coaches were the hardest hit by isolation imo
-kicking accuracy will come; but lets not rely on that – else we end up with a
retardedbackline with learning disabilities9 Oct 2012, 10:40 am
A major problem is the ingrained mind set that the SA’n style is fundamentally superior to the “high tempo” game played by NZ and Australia.
In the week or so leading into the Dunedin test, all was doom and gloom. Much like the atmosphere being experienced by Bokke supporters today.
Unexpectedly, the Bokke put up a much bigger challenge than expected and then followed it up with a resounding win over a crippled Aus.
The mood change was enormous. Gone was the pessimism, replaced by rampant confidence.
All you folk clamoring for a change in the way the Booke play will without a single doubt in my mind, all change your tune if they stroll through the EOYT unbeaten.
The loss on the weekend will be dismissed as a mere speed bump on the way to sure and certain glory.
9 Oct 2012, 11:15 am
@KiaKahaNZ-272: Haha – and Springbok fans are so arrogant? 2009 was THAT long ago. I will rather speak to the more balanced Kiwis on this site (the few that there are).
9 Oct 2012, 11:16 am
@j59-281: Fourmeters Daylight?
9 Oct 2012, 22:38 pm
@bokfan1-283: what a sensitive plonk you are.
For about a hundred years, give or take a few blips along the way, NZ have always been the team to beat. The fact this is echoed throughout the rugby world reinforces that statement.
This is neither arrogance nor is it ignorance.
SA too have had their moments, but in the last 15 years, they have become beatable than what they used to be – especially at home
Your losses to Scotland and Ireland put all of this into perspective.
10 Oct 2012, 07:59 am
@bokfan1-284: yeah – there was 4 meters of daylight behind him, no support players (not entirely true – looked at tthe game again, and Strauss and Beast did arrive)
Sheesh – just looked at the tackle stats from the game on rugbystats dott comm – that Suarez made 16(!) (18/2 missed) tackles, then Frank Louw with 12(14/2), then kieran read with 11 (13/2)
Alberts attempted and made 2 in total
Hougaard appeared to have a shocker tackling wise – 8 attempted, 3(!) made, 1 ineffctive, 4 missed
But then again, I haven’t counted the stats myself
11 Oct 2012, 16:35 pm
@KiaKahaNZ-285: not sure where I was being “sensitive” but anyway…
For most of those 100 years the Springboks were in fact the best team in the world and the team to beat. Perhaps you are very young or new to the game? (Although I am young but have read up on rugby history).
SA held most of the records for rugby then (grand slams etc) and brought in innovations like the 8-man scrum, dive pass and others now considered integral to rugby.
SA had a positive win record against all nations including NZ.
While I do agree that SA has been mostly disappointing since re-admission in 1992 (besides 95, 97/98, 99, 2004, 2005, 2007, 2009), before that they were the best in the world.
And one day they will be again
11 Oct 2012, 16:42 pm
@j59-286: Understand – I thought “Fourmeters Daylight” was a nickname for a player
What site do you use for the stats?
rugbystats dott comm doesnt seem to work…
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