Nothing soft about Soweto slaughter
8 Oct 2012
MARK KEOHANE, in Business Day newspaper, writes for anyone to claim a few soft moments was the difference for the Boks is to claim insanity.
The only thing that can save the Springboks now, said a mate of mine, is another 20 years of sporting isolation. Having just watched the match tape for a second time, for professional and not sadistic reasons, my mate may just have a point.
Damn, the Boks took a beating.
This was the most brutal of reality checks and to deny the obvious is to ask for more pain.
The Boks were second best – and by some distance. They have been for some time and there should be no comfort in being the best of those competing for numbers two to five.
The referee did not favour the All Blacks. The referee did not cheat the Boks. The All Blacks did not have an extra man on the field. Statistically all the advantage was South Africa’s, before the start and in the first quarter of the match.
The Boks were at home, playing in front of 85 000 at altitude, and against an opponent who had already claimed the tournament championship and had reached Johannesburg from New Zealand via Buenos Aires.
The assumption – at least mine – was the greater hunger for success had to be that of the Boks. Similarly, when judging the enthusiasm of the two teams.
I wrote before the match that one team wanted to win and the other had to win. I got it wrong in writing the team who had to were the South Africans.
Our boys wanted to win, but were never good enough. Richie McCaw’s men had to win to make another telling statement to those who refuse to acknowledge their achievements.
Clearly, there isn’t such a thing as a meaningless Test for these All Blacks. They set their own standards and they were done no favours by the referee who awarded the All Blacks their first penalty in the 57th minute, by which time they had already scored four tries.
I’ve seen some very talented All Black teams stumble in South Africa because of a high risk and all out attack approach. I’ve also seem some very good New Zealand teams run out of puff as altitude proved as decisive as any home team attitude.
Not in Soweto.
The All Blacks were intelligent in their approach, calculated in when to play for field position and when to trust their defensive patterns and they were ruthless on attack.
These guys played with no risk in the first 20 minutes, preferring to kick the ball back to the Boks and ask them to think. They hardly played any rugby, with the Boks making two tackles and forcing the New Zealanders to make 28.
Yet on 30 minutes the Boks trailed 12-10 and all theory about home ground advantage was secondary to the reality of an on-field beating.
I’ve seen All Black teams batter the Boks in the professional era. I’ve never seen one that appeared so easy and so emphatic as in the last 40 minutes in Soweto.
To claim a few soft moments was the difference is to claim insanity.
I don’t put much store in what coaches and players say after the game. It really is only when they see a recording of the 80 minutes that you get some sense out of them, even though Bok coach Heyneke Meyer will know that no scoreboard could do justice to the one-sided beating in Soweto.
For those of who you may challenge my view go and watch the tape again. Those last 50 minutes especially were torture and the final 10 minutes looked like the winding down of a training session.
There can be no masking the situation and there is also no gain from playing the blame game. Whether it was Johan Goosen, Elton Jantjies or Patrick Lambie at flyhalf would not have made a difference. It would not have made a difference whether the early kicks went over or not. The All Blacks would have come back just those few minutes earlier.
Each week I hear a coach, a captain and a player say a few moments cost them. If they acknowledge the problem is more complex then those few moments will hopefully decrease considerably in the next 12 months.
Questions rightfully have been asked of player performance this season. Meyer has said the season already has answered which players selected were good enough and which were not, but he needs to ask the same questions of his support staff.
How good are they? How good are the defensive structures because players don’t seem to trust each other or trust the system? What is going on with the kickers?
Hard questions have to be asked from within.
There is no need to panic because of the defeat, but I’d start to panic as a supporter if there is denial about the nature of the defeat.
288 Comments
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8 Oct 2012, 11:50 am
Just read the article, sorry going to reblog my comment from ryan’s article…
Ryan you might add HMs failure in selecting the best possible coaching staff… If he appointed the best personnel his record might have been much better…
1. Loubscher certainly isnt the best attacking coach SARU could afford and its disgraceful that the bok backs are coached by a backline coach with only vodacom cup experience. HM didnt have the luxury to shop around, the timing due to his belated appointment made it difficult to find quality coaches without a contract, but thats no excuse… Loubscher could have been handed a short term contract… HM had success at the bulls with a great BL coach with a lot of experience and excellent credentials in Louden… why not appoint a coach with similar experience and success?
2. An excellent defensive coach like Nieharber would have been snapped up by any other international coaching team. Why wasnt he appointed?
3. Koen….I dont know what his coaching success record is but it seems he’s making great kickers mediocre…
4. Why isnt Matfield involved with the lineouts? The boks’ lineout was their biggest weapon and teams including the ABs avoided lineouts at all costs… And its clear that it was due to Matfields brilliance and unique understanding of this crucial set piece. Why not use him to make the boks just as mighty in this department…?
The reason everyone would say is Bulls bias… after each failure these selections should be criticized a helll of a lot more that player selections or tactics !
For the boks to become the best, they need to be coached by the best… Imo.
8 Oct 2012, 11:52 am
One thing’s for sure — the right team won the World Cup in 2011.
8 Oct 2012, 11:52 am
@katman-46: go talk to your little bumchum prude clown who’s writhing like the fishie on the end of the line.. you and him BOTH were calling a big Bok win this weekend.. were you moron white messiah seekers NOT .. and WHO was telling you your coach is LOST in the jungle of his own goddamn delusions.. same as you two wet behind the ears imbeciles still decidedly are.
Taute at 13 .. ahead of De Jongh … who’s call was that.. You and Your DUMB coach.. Hougaard at 11 .. WHICH moron persists with that .. You and your dumb deluded coach not so… Kirchner at 15.. Pienaar at 9… how many more examples of IDIOCY are you gonna sink your dumb boertjie head into the denial driven sand along with your DUMB deluded white coach…
Yep its a feather in my cap alright.. because as true as the sun is shining I could select a better team than this moron imbecile messiah dunce you bow and pray to that he was going to lead you out your desert of delusion any old day…
8 Oct 2012, 11:54 am
@Transformation-43: haha, to be honest i only saw part of it as i was gutted
@katman-46:
he is indeed trying to claim some kind of high ground.
he is welcome to it but the fact that he has never complimented a bok coach makes it hard to take seriously.
8 Oct 2012, 11:56 am
@Diliza-38: how clueless was this PdV-coached team?
M. Steyn (C Mcleod 66); B Basson (O Ndugane 66), A Jacobs (W Olivier 67), J de Jongh, L Mvovo; P Lambie, R Pienaar; D Greyling (CJ van der Linde 47), J Smit, W Kruger (C Ralepelle 47), G Mostert (R Kankowski 74), A Hargreaves, D Stegmann (J Deysel 58), J Deysel (A Johnson 48), D Rossouw.
8 Oct 2012, 11:56 am
Keo it is not rocket science. The structure / systems in SA rugby need to be changed. Central contracting systems. Better coaches. Better player management. We will continue to lose on a consistent basis until the above is changed.
In NZ they all pull together because the All Blacks come first. Not in SA….lets see how many Boks play Currie Cup this weekend?
We will continue to slide (and get the odd rare win against the AB’s) until we address the system. Simples.
8 Oct 2012, 11:56 am
@rangerman-54: go revisit the little wishful thinking exchange of hyped up expectations you were so CONVINCED about on Friday night you dumb little fishie writhing in your pain of abject realization that you got it WRONG.. AGAIN.. dumbfckngass moron.
8 Oct 2012, 11:58 am
Firstly the game was played in Nasrec, not like the marketers would have us believe Soweto … it’s close, but really.
Secondly, you have a very inexperienced side against a very experienced side .. and that experienced side is the best in the world currently to boot.
There are 6 under 21 players in the starting 22 of the Boks.
Positions 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 13, 14 and to a point 15 are ‘new’ or ‘newish’ players to a point and new combinations. There are some with a fair amount of caps, but how many of those of coming off the bench and playing behind established players a year ago.
We are going to get strengthened with players coming back from injury.
The coach knows what he is doing, the assistance we are still not sure about.
There is a change happening in each game. It is a learning curve for all.
Yes, the AB’s are much better than us for now .. but I have a feeling things are going to get allot better.
So chill, there is forward progress, not stalling like in 2010 and 2011.
This is still going to become a very good Bok team, one off the best since isolation ended, maybe the best.
Yes Keo, we did not lose because of the ref, the AB were better and more clinical on the day … but he was very suspect in the last 12 or so min after giving out a yellow. There were 2 def penalties to the Boks in the AB red zone. One in front of the ref and one the line ref could not have missed (scrum, hand on the ground)
I really wish the Boks use some brains. Why try and crash over when close to the line when the opposition has one man short in the back line. Just plain stupid … and all SA teams do that ****.
8 Oct 2012, 11:59 am
@XV-56:
I agree not too complicated… If we dont have skills coaches or attacking coaches that will aid the players to become the best, then they should get foreign coaches to have coaching workshops… be proactive for a change to bring forth change…
8 Oct 2012, 12:00 pm
@XV-56: SA system stands in Bok path
——————————————————————————–
by Gavin Rich 08 October 2012
There were some who scoffed when Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer said after the FNB Stadium test against the All Blacks that his team can close the gap by this time next year, but it was wrong to do so.
Even though the chasm between first and second at the moment looks a yawning one, it is no more so than what separated the Boks from the top teams in 1997, 2003 and 2008. In all three of those years the Boks finished last in what was then the Tri-Nations but then came back to win the competition the following season.
“The All Blacks are a long way ahead of us at the moment, but a year is a long time in rugby and a lot can change in that period,” said Meyer.
“It’s easy to make excuses, and we do want to win every single game, but we also have to be realistic. We have six guys who are still under 21. But I have a lot of belief in this team, and the players have belief in me.
Some guys have just had their first taste of test rugby. They will grow with experience, and if we can get through the end-of-year tour this will be a much better team next year.”
The Boks play the first match of the November tour in just under five weeks when they face Ireland in Dublin before proceeding to Edinburgh and London. As Meyer says, it is looming as a crucial tour for the Boks as this is the big opportunity for the team to start developing in preparation for next year’s Rugby Championship.
However, South African rugby has long shown a propensity for shooting itself in the foot, and it appears one of the biggest lessons of the All Black dominance of the southern hemisphere competition has yet to be internalised by the decision makers.
While Meyer wants to let the newcomers gain experience and the combinations to grow on the tour, he has no guarantee that those players will be available when the tour departure arrives.
It was understood until last week that the 30 players who served under Meyer during the home leg of the Championship would be ruled out of the remaining phase of the Currie Cup, but there appears to have been an about-turn, with the provinces being allowed to call up their Boks for the domestic competition.
It appears the provinces have enforced their right to field the players that they employ, and it is the fault of the South African system rather than the individual unions that it should be allowed to happen.
NO CENTRAL CONTRACTS
Unlike New Zealand, the players are not centrally contracted in South Africa, and that means the national body has no hold over them outside of during the international season.
A succession of Springbok coaches have looked enviously at the New Zealand system, a system which All Black coach Steve Hansen last week described as one of the biggest factors in his team getting through the Championship with hardly any injuries.
While the Wallabies, Springboks and to a lesser extent Argentina were decimated by injury, the All Blacks were pretty close to full muster for most of the competition.
According to Hansen this was because franchise coaches worked closely with the All Black management during the Super Rugby season in ensuring that the top players were not overplayed.
Meyer understandably cannot talk out against his bosses, but you could get a sense of his frustration when he commented on the issue at the post-match press conference in Nasrec.
“You have to admire the way New Zealand manage their players. The All Blacks play the same team in almost every test match. The guys from all over the world put their bodies on the line, but the way they have looked after players like Richie McCaw and Dan Carter is a big part of their success. They manage their players very well.”
Meyer said he had spoken to the New Zealand management and compared notes, and he gave the sense that he envied what the All Black coaches were being allowed to do.
It is understood that fringe players who have not played much will be released to play ITM Cup rugby now that the Championship is over (the All Blacks do have one remaining Bledisloe Cup test to look forward to on 20 October), but all the top players will be kept away from their provinces.
COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE TO THE NATIONAL INTEREST
That is the way it should be in South Africa, with players like Patrick Lambie, Tiaan Liebenberg and the other reserves probably needing some game time to ensure match sharpness after spending so much time on the bench.
But throwing the top players who have played all the Championship tests into the Currie Cup makes no sense and is surely counter-productive to the national interest with the end of year tour so near at hand.
It’s perhaps understandable after a sub-standard Currie Cup season that sponsors and administrators want to breathe some life into a flagging competition, but those stake-holders are just going to have to accept that the expanded Super Rugby season has turned what was once a galloping horse into a limping donkey. And injecting a full-strength element into the last week in 10 of a league season that has been played under-strength is not going to change that.
It may be important to the unions but it seems to undermine any drive for national good and if Meyer is forced by injury to leave his preferred players behind when the Boks leave for tour we may have to listen to him next year repeating his lament after Saturday’s game that certain team failings, like the defence, were down to inexperience.
There are some who justifiably think that excuse is disingenuous – a player selected to play international rugby should be good enough and experienced enough to compete – but it is nonetheless a fact that the All Black team that has swept all before it this year out-ranks the others in experience and it does take time for newcomers to settle at a new level.
And it is in games like the Boks will play overseas that new flyhalves Johan Goosen and Elton Jantjies should be growing into their status as international players.
8 Oct 2012, 12:03 pm
What concerns me is the excuses being made by HM. First he needs experience, then it’s Steyn’s kicking and now it’s inexperience. It’s a clear sign that he’s out of his depth! Instead of blaming things he needs to take a long hard look at himself, his coaching team and the team tactics. The AB’s traveled to Argentina then back to SA, played at altitude and whipped us??? This after we nearly beat them in NZ? We were so dominant in first 30 minutes and couldn’t convert that into at least 20 points. How many knock on’s? Was a bad day at the office for all the SA supporters….time for HM to start listening or better yet, fall on his sword!
8 Oct 2012, 12:05 pm
@XV-56: Can we start with Herr Meyer?
8 Oct 2012, 12:06 pm
@fitz1ella-57: haha, if we had to go back in time and line up all the bs predictions you had made we would still be sitting here next year you loser
i support the boks and only the boks buddy.
wake up.
8 Oct 2012, 12:07 pm
@Jeez-51:
Loubscher was a less than adequate VC player and is an average VC backline coach.
Van Graan is a nepotism by product picked my Heineken as a favour to his daddy!
McFarland is an exiled Jock with no defensive track record.
The fitness oke is a no-name brand doing what exactly?
Pffffft.
8 Oct 2012, 12:08 pm
@rangerman-11: Can any1 relay what Mallet said after the game?
I missed that discussion
8 Oct 2012, 12:09 pm
KEO your last sentence is the most telling. Meyer has denied everything this year and never admitted fault which is scary to say the least. Sticking with Morne and not playing a fetcher for 90% of the season are the most telling errors that hes never admitted fault to. Once these 2 aspects were sorted out, all it did was show how poor our current gameplan actually is and exposed the floors.
Watching the game live, there were so many things you can point out as just bad coaching. Why dont any of the forwards take the ball at pace? Why televise a box kick so badly that half the ABs go back for it and you dont change tac. There was a 3 man overlap by the time Pienaar kicked half the time. Why are the fwds allowed to get white line fever when again anyone in the backline could have scored. One of the worst defensive efforts by a Bok team ever. A lot of it is school boy stuff and came down to pisspoor coaching.
We performed better when the team was coaching itself!
8 Oct 2012, 12:10 pm
@rangerman-63: Still doesn’t excuse your kuk prediction on Friday night.
8 Oct 2012, 12:11 pm
@Transformation-60:
Nc nc nc – are you sure you are not brining that up cause Cheeky cannt get players and will be forced to play VC players next year.
8 Oct 2012, 12:12 pm
@papaown-65: sorry man, i have blockeed it all out
8 Oct 2012, 12:12 pm
@XV-56: Well said. Being provincially neutral I see the Boks coming 2nd best to provinces throughout the year. Makes absolutely no sense
8 Oct 2012, 12:12 pm
@rangerman-39:
the CC has acres of time and space that makes the most limited of players look like backline geniuses.
The boks biggest problems at the back,to my mind, are that we are unable to execute attacking plays at fullspeed underpressure. Add to that, that we do not look up when we receive a poor kick and immediately implement a kick return looking for ground. This is statistically a smart play but to my mind is indicative of our lack of confidence or mindset that we do not consider the immediate option that “it might actually be a kak kick” and there is a chance to run with it. And with that midset…everything such as support play is effected, eg: even the players that are supposed to get back and offer outside support immediately assume that the receiver is just going to kick return so don’t even bother getting back to offer a running option.
I’m pretty sure that if we addressed this issue half of carters kicks would be shown up as tosh.
Also, as South African supporters…do we never acknowlege a trend?
We want to can the backline coach now. Loubscher
Before that it was Muir..
and before that it was Allister Coetzee
and before that it was Rudy Joubert….etc,etc
Sa has huge issues amongst our backs playing phylosophy and not talent.
This needs addressing
8 Oct 2012, 12:12 pm
Meyer, up to now,has pointed fingers at everything that moves under the sun…..except himself.
8 Oct 2012, 12:13 pm
@Jeez-51: If you rember SARU only started to appoint any supporting staff like in April , all the guys you are talking about was already on contract this was Saru problem not HM , he does not appoint SARU does.
8 Oct 2012, 12:13 pm
@wnbb-67: well ow i feel really bad
get knobbed loser, remind us of your predictions for the sharks/ wp s15 semi
8 Oct 2012, 12:15 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-71: Intere4sting that in 86 the AB’s killed us up front we ran them to pieces at the back, now we kill them up front and they run to to pieces at the back.
8 Oct 2012, 12:16 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-71: your last sentence is basically exactly what i have been saying bud.
8 Oct 2012, 12:18 pm
Rangerman
Yeah it was. Its very hard how people try to take things away for cheap points. In time we will rebuild. But its money that will help. When i have settled down in terms of business i will give it another go. But as things stand too many chefs i guess. Same thing happened with young lions. I guess they tried to repeat the success of African Warriors with what they did in cricket. But Warriors were allowed to build a proper structure which we were never gona do while rushing.
8 Oct 2012, 12:19 pm
Where is Big Joe at 8.. We need somebody that can compete with the Great Kieren Reade. We have nobody offering that. Spies is a girl and a show pony with no aggression, Vermuelan is a great work horse but lacks the ball skills of a top international No 8, like Parrissi or Reade. BIG JOE is the best No 8 SA have. He has the expansive play and aggression to get the job done. Boks need to consider this man.
Reade destroyed us.
8 Oct 2012, 12:20 pm
@wnbb-72: Correct. And therein lies the problem. He fails to believe that HE, the great and all conquering Messiah can make mistakes in selection, strategy and more…
How I wish he had assistants like Mallet and Mitchell telling him the TRUTH on a daily basis….
Problem is, he has all these little adoring midgets who are either too sh y te scared to say anything, or are so in AWE of the Messiah, they can’t say anything – one of the 2.
If there is any truth in the story that Meyer and Rassie had a few differences of opinion, hence Rassie’s expulsion from the coaching box and sessions, well then I guess Meyer doesn’t want to hear the truth?
8 Oct 2012, 12:20 pm
Keo you are being a bit of a drama queen. The ABs are not as far ahead of the Boks as you suggest.
Haave a look at the tape again, specificall around the 76 min mark.
With the Boks camped in the ABs 22, the ABs collaps 2 mauls illegally, defend on their line with everyone offiside (ie. not behind the try line). Woodcock hands on the ground at scrum time, and Richie Mac plays the ball with his hands in the ruck while lying on his back making it appear that Strauss knocked it on. Had the ref picked up on one of any of those multiple offences, I believe the Boks would have had 7 more points. This is just one example.
I am not saying the ABs were not better ad deserved the win, but I do think Keo is getting a bit too excited and the gap is not as big as he says. I still don’t see this as a vintage AB team like 96. It’s more of a case of Aus and SA struggling with injuries and new management and making it easy for them.
Think about it. Had the RWC final v France and the narrow win over Ireland earlier this year been officiated failrly, the ABs would not be looking at he consecutive win record.
Granted, Richie and DC are the best players of their generation, but 2 players don’t make a team.
Boks did have a few soft moments. Had Jaco Taute & Bekker not missed their tackles, and the Boks scored in the example above it would have been a different game, and Keo would not be acting like a little girl.
8 Oct 2012, 12:21 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-71: philosphy
8 Oct 2012, 12:21 pm
@willievz-42:
so in 2008….the selections and experience avalible for selection was less than now?
ja…okay then
8 Oct 2012, 12:21 pm
I wrote before the match that one team wanted to win and the other had to win. I got it wrong …………………………………………………….Keo.
Nothing new there Keo.
You get it wrong more often than not.
8 Oct 2012, 12:21 pm
@wnbb-81: philosophy
8 Oct 2012, 12:25 pm
@capebull-73:
HM still appointed the coaches and they were all Bulls coaches… Even with the unprofessional situation created by SARU, HM made bad personnel appointments… Nieharber was open to sign…And SARU had to buy most of the coaches out of their Bulls contracts.. They could have done so with any coach with a contract…
These selections can be changed too, but will it take as long as it did for JW to appoint EdJones, which was only in his final year as coach?
8 Oct 2012, 12:26 pm
fukking helll sorry but we had **** defenders all over taute screwed up and let in two or three tries all on his fukkkin own!!! goosen was a fukking turnstile defender and jantjies wasnt much better. pienaar always been ***** and hougie is not a wingers arzehole. loosies ponderous bring in brussow when fit again for *** sake. too many soft tries by fukkking amateur sh!tty defending. we had no midfield of test level ability. all blacks still kAK but we need to play our fukkking best or else it aint gettting better.
8 Oct 2012, 12:26 pm
@Tbozknows-78:
Big Joe must be Old Joe by now Tboz.
In his prime he was magnificient. But that was not yesterday.
8 Oct 2012, 12:27 pm
Meyer is single-handedly messing up Taute’s career.The oke must be glad he is joining up with the Lions again this week.
8 Oct 2012, 12:27 pm
Might be best for SA if they did go up north, I can’t see them competing with the big boys and it looks like the Argies will overtake them next year – take the money and run like you’ve been suggesting.
8 Oct 2012, 12:27 pm
@skunk-77: ja bud its something that really pi sses me off about the NRU.
we also play a team called amaBhubhesi (well my mates still do, i am retired) and they have been pushed up into the 4th div even though they simply dont have the infrastructure or numbers to be competitive.
it ends up with aspiring clubs in black communities getting handed hidings from predominantly white clubs who have better infrastructure, playing facilities etc every weekend and the black clubs battle to attract supporters, players or sponsors as who wants to be assosciated with a team getting a hiding all the time.
KWANTU actually did very well considering their resources and came 3rd in our last year of playing them if i recall. The games were competitive and the foundations were there but then the NRU pushed them up to 3rd dive probably to satisfy politicians and they were destroyed or so i heard and the club fell apart.
tragic imo.
(i could be completely off track bud, heard most of this second or third hand)
8 Oct 2012, 12:27 pm
@wnbb-81:
okay
@rangerman-76:
well, not really but if you think so….
8 Oct 2012, 12:28 pm
AB’s are different class. We focus too much on aggression in SA. Not enough on skills and running in space. I like the aggression we have and attention to detail at the set piece but right now we are not showing enough perfection in the very things that we traditionally do well.
8 Oct 2012, 12:30 pm
@Blitzbok-86:
Good of you show up Blitzy.
Remember this?
5.Blitzbok:
6 Oct 2012, 15:43 pm
no blerry reason the boks should lose against these overrated arrogant turkeys.
Now I like my turkeys stuffed………………………………..and roasted.
8 Oct 2012, 12:31 pm
I wonder if the Bulls will recall the Bok coach during the end of year tour????
8 Oct 2012, 12:32 pm
@Jeez-85:
I am not sure what this drama is about Nieberwhats his name….
what exactly are his credentials when you ask the same of mcfarland?
because, mcfarland has been good enough to get the bulls winning multiple trophys in all formats. What has niebenheim done? How many trophy’s.
I want a defence coach that gives us a defence that is good enough without us losing anything on attack. Granted the boks attack and finishing is not up to much….but the stormers attack is positively shite having become tacklemonsters and little else.
8 Oct 2012, 12:33 pm
It was bs. A lot of guys left beacuse of work and since we did not have a large enough pool things fell apart. Its only up to getting strong leadership. Sad though…
8 Oct 2012, 12:33 pm
@cane-93: there aint no reason why boks should ever lose to these coksukkerz. any ******* team that buys a world cup dont deserve respect. the world knows your sh!thole team is a fake. france, world champions 2011.
8 Oct 2012, 12:33 pm
@wnbb-94:
you are a funny little prodder arent you.
8 Oct 2012, 12:33 pm
@cane-87: I agree about his age.. I just feel we need to be more inventive in that department. Like the new generation have it right, but I just feel we need Koster or someone to step up at No 8.
8 Oct 2012, 12:34 pm
@wnbb-88:
you mean like twakkie did with frans steyn?
or worse?
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