Relegation threat forces Coetzee’s hand
10 Oct 2012
The possibility of WP dropping out of the Currie Cup Premier Division has contributed to the decision to push fatigued Springboks to play this Saturday.
Allister Coetzee was the Bok assistant coach between 2004 and 2007 before he linked up with the Stormers and Western Province in 2008. He is well aware of the manner in which rugby is administrated in South Africa, having been involved with the Boks and a provincial union, and knows how the contracting system is such that the provinces dictate how much rugby the Boks play over the course of a season.
On Wednesday, Coetzee explained his decision to include all seven returning Springboks in the starting line-up for the final Currie Cup league match against the Cheetahs.
Flanked by a visibly exhausted Jean de Villiers, Coetzee admitted that it was a not an ideal situation if one looked at it from a Bok perspective, but as a coach of a province that pays the players’ salaries, his hands were tied.
‘It’s the way the contracts work in this country, the players belong to the province,’ said Coetzee. ‘Unless there is a change to the structure, that is the way it’s going to be.’
WP are currently in third place on the Currie Cup log, but if they lose this weekend and the other two results go against them, they could finish in last position.
This would see them playing a promotion-relegation series against the Eastern Province Kings to determine who will feature in the 2013 Currie Cup.
It is therefore in WP’s interest to play all of their available Boks, no matter their state of fatigue. If there wasn’t such a risk of dropping down to the First Division, Coetzee may have given a few of the top players a much needed break.
‘If you look at what we are all facing, the reality of being relegated, well you have to have your Boks at your disposal,’ he said.
‘That’s what unions are going through right now, nobody wants to get relegated. If we were different position on the log, then maybe I wouldn’t have played all the Boks. Now we have to play our best team.’
It was thought at the beginning of the season that the Boks would be excused from the Currie Cup given their extensive workload in the Super Rugby competition and heavy Test schedule. But De Villiers suggested last week that the Boks would return for domestic duty at the conclusion of the Rugby Championship, and when he said it, you got the feeling that he wasn’t happy about it.
Coetzee confirmed on Wednesday that the thought process of using the Boks in the Currie Cup had changed recently because of the prospect of relegation.
Indeed, it is not only WP who have loaded their team with Boks. The Bulls have stacked their team with returning Boks and it’s likely that the Sharks will do the same when they name their side later in the week.
De Villiers is currently nursing a hamstring injury and will only train at WP’s captain’s run on Friday. It is a situation that highlights the faults of the South African system, and WP can’t be blamed for working within the given parameters.
If the South African system was similar to that of New Zealand, a country that centrally-contracts their players so that they are managed accordingly, they wouldn’t be in a position where a fatigue-related injury is a probability rather than a possibility.
De Villiers said that he wasn’t happy with the situation and, more damningly, suggested it wasn’t likely to change. It’s the rugby player’s lot in South Africa to simply get on with it.
‘It’s not really relevant what the players feel, it’s a decision that the administrators need to make,’ he said. ‘When you are needed, you need to step up. As long as the decision lies with the unions, it doesn’t matter what we as players feel.
‘We might gain more from something like central-contracting,’ admitted De Villiers. ‘Maybe we need to sit down and come up with a model that works for everyone.’
By Jon Cardinelli
251 Comments
10 Oct 2012, 14:15 pm
Kak man.
If if they came last (and that’s a big if), they would murder the winner of the 1st division.
Not matter who it is.
Unless they scared of the Kings???
10 Oct 2012, 14:15 pm
Dragons!!!!!!
10 Oct 2012, 14:25 pm
Saru needs to emulate, the nzru’s central contracting policy, or the boks will continue to be owned by the All Blacks.
10 Oct 2012, 14:28 pm
Good article form SS saying exactly what Jean suggests
Time we put Bok rugby first
by Brenden Nel
It was never more apparent than during Saturday’s Castle Rugby Championship test victory by the All Blacks over the Springboks that they are simply a class above the rest of the world at the moment.
And while we can look to place blame at someone’s doorstep – whether it be the coach, players, Saru, the weather or even the stadium – which now boasts a 0-2 record against the New Zealanders – there are certain things that cannot be argued.
For not only are the All Blacks a better side at the moment, but there is little argument that their central contracting system has done wonders for the way they condition their players, and their depth is a strength that few nations across the world can match at the moment.
Of course it was disheartening to see the Boks fail to stop the World Champs in the second half, but we can carry on demonising players and coaches, living from victory to victory, or we can actually do something about matching the best team in the world on a consistent basis.
Saturday was a reality check. It was the cold light of day and sobering dusk at a magnificent stadium to remind us that we aren’t all we think we are. Our rugby is not as strong as we believe it to be.
Those who argue this point should remember we have twice – in Jake White’s era and Peter de Villiers’ – sent a B-team on a Tri-Nations journey and have twice been handed massive hidings. While both those trips were masked by the bigger picture of a World Cup later in the year, they were also constant reminders that our depth in player ranks is not as good as we believe it to be.
South African rugby has survived over the years because every now and then we get things right. We manage to stumble onto success every few years because we simply cannot shoot ourselves in the foot that often.
We have a massive pool of talent, but we rip into players at the first sign of weakness, not to mention the fact that virtually every single provincial coach in this country has not done enough to develop the vast untapped resources of up-and-coming black talent in the country.
Instead, we think along provincial lines and complain about those South Africans who wear All Black jerseys and abuse our Springbok players who they see as the enemy, but feel nothing when our own fellow Bok supporters do the same to the players they claim represents them on the field.
Every test defeat is treated as the end of the world, and virtually every single Springbok coach is on his way to being fired the day he is appointed to the job.
Compare this to New Zealand who have just seen Graham Henry hand over the coaching reigns to an assistant who has been with the team for more than 100 tests, after an eight-year reign himself.
Compare this to the legacy of success which runs through the veins of New Zealand rugby, where the central contracting system allows for coaches and players to be supported by their peers.
There is a sense in New Zealand that everything flows upward, that every decision or movement, every game-plan, is used to benefit the All Blacks. Everything is done for a singular goal.
Of course there are failings in every system, and of course there are some examples of where they get it wrong, but when last did you hear a provincial coach complain about an All Black coach the way John Plumtree did this weekend about the Boks?
Never mind the way Jake White savaged Peter de Villiers during his reign, or the way White was subjected to a panel of ex-Bok coaches when he was trying to see the Bok squad through a difficult time.
And before you accuse this column of wanting to stifle dissent, let me state clearly that criticism is indeed part of the game, and – where warranted – always has a place. All I’m trying to say is that you never seem to see it in New Zealand rugby.
There will always be those who will disagree with me, and will believe the fault lies with a coach/player/administrator, and will blindly believe we are better than the All Blacks at the moment and it was our own failings that cost us victory.
We can carry on like that for years to come and no matter who the coach is, they will face the same barrage of abuse and criticism. They will find it difficult to move in a system that doesn’t put the Springboks first. And inevitably, they will fail.
But this is also not advocating self-defeat. Because there is a load of light at the end of the tunnel, if we choose to use it wisely.
We need to admit that on Saturday we were not good enough. We weren’t on the same level as the All Blacks. But then we need to do something about it. The South African rugby community needs to do something about it.
Provincial administrators need to help Saru find a way of implementing a central contracting system that will benefit all provinces AND the Springboks, and help keep our best players fresh.
Provincial coaches need to help and support the Bok coach, whoever he may be, and not offer public help while behind the scenes working against his every move.
Players need to be backed to succeed, given the right amount of game-time and not played into the ground. They also need to be developed according to a national plan, with the whole system moving in the same direction.
Lastly, fans need to be patient. To learn that not every defeat or victory is the be all and end all of rugby life. To learn that there is a process in every team, a cycle that they build on and if they get it right, the Boks will be able to consistently challenge for the number one spot in the world.
And national administrators need to fight harder for competitions that won’t kill off our chances because players are injured, played into the ground or mentally exhausted, just so we can add more dollars to the bottom line.
South African rugby needs to find a common vision. One that can be backed and one which has a succession plan.
We have an enormous amount of young talent coming through – especially if you look at the SA under-20 squad that took the IRB Junior World Cup and the six under-21 players in the current Bok squad.
The chance is there to draw a line in the sand and work together across the board to make the Boks the most feared team on the planet.
Or we can simply carry on waiting for every team, every player, and every coach to fail.
10 Oct 2012, 14:34 pm
@mpundulu-3:
Won’t happen. The Unions bring in the money. In NZL it works because the AB’s rake in the cash (the brand itself).
I actually wouldn’t want it any other way. I like the fact that a Bulls/Stormers/Sharks match can bring in 50 000 people.
10 Oct 2012, 14:39 pm
Said it before.
SARU couldnt organise a pissup in a brewery.
Look no further than the Kings debacle for proof of this.
And now we expect them to be in charge of player distribution and maintanance?!
Can you imagine the carnage.
No thank you.
10 Oct 2012, 14:39 pm
@londonshark-5: I would prefer to regularly beat the AB’s than have sold out CC games
10 Oct 2012, 14:46 pm
Surely a simple solution to the issue of central contracts is that as soon as a player is selected for a Bok squad, his contract and payment of his salary are transferred to SARU. That way the national coach and his provincial coach can reach an agreement on how often they play and when they are rested, being on the bench shouldn’t count as being rested.
10 Oct 2012, 14:47 pm
@John Galt-6: Well, they could probably organise the piss up…..but would wake up the next morning with helluva hangovers, hands tied behind their backs wondering justhowthefuck John o Neill and Steve Tew managed to not only steal all the beverages, women and wallets at the piss up, but also how they managed to transort it all back to Oz and Kiwi…..
@Atreides-7: I would happily see WP go another 11 years without winning a CC, if it was for the benefit of the Boks.
10 Oct 2012, 14:52 pm
@John Galt-6: Teeheehee!
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-9: @Atreides-7: Ditto!
10 Oct 2012, 14:53 pm
Also in regards to the article, the fact that the Bulls and WP are just about forced to rush their Boks back to save their arses demonstrates that they appear to be falling in behind in terms of player development. If the Lions and the Sharks can maintain their standard of play in the CC, granted the Lions only had a few players off on Bok duty then why cant the Bulls and WP do the same?
10 Oct 2012, 15:02 pm
@londonshark-5: Correct. Over 1 000 000 people watched the Super Rugby clash between the Bulls and Stormers this year.
Only a paltry 250 000 watched the biggest NZ derby of this year, the Blues vs the Saders.
10 Oct 2012, 15:05 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-9: Can just imagine Tew & O’Neil at said bunfight standing around their own little “barbie” waiting for their boerewors to cook. Conversation would go something like this: Tew: “Come John, let’s get these Japies again & this time we don’t even have to use email.” O’Neil: “Ooooh, you good thing you, Steve!”
10 Oct 2012, 15:08 pm
@John Galt-6: hehehe you’re thinking like Tacitus
Tac said, once you centralise the palyer distribution, how will you prevent the “AA appointments” from running SARU and thus hijacking the player resource?
s.hit like sadie earning twice the salary of akhona ndungane won’t happen though…
10 Oct 2012, 15:08 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-13:
10 Oct 2012, 15:09 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-9:
10 Oct 2012, 15:16 pm
“Flanked by a visibly exhausted Jean de Villiers…”
Really, JC? Was he nodding off? Did he have bags under his eyes? Did he have trouble getting to his feet?
I know you’re trying to make a point here, but the melodrama doesn’t really aid your cause. He’s been chilling for five days solid. I think he’s okay for a press conference. The type of exhaustion he’s suffering from does not manifest in slumped shoulders and a far-away look.
10 Oct 2012, 15:21 pm
@Transformation-14:
The salary issue is a seperate debate Transie. Salary discrepancies are going to happen regardless. As with any role in society.
I doubt very much whether a municipal manager with no education but with friends in high places should be paid triple(maybe more) that of a nurse but s.hit like that happens.
Im talking about actual organisation and control of this ‘centralised distribution’. Tacs concern is very real if that is indeed what he said.
I just dont think SARU has the necessary skills to do it. Nor are they backed up by an entirely organised and ethical sports ministry.
10 Oct 2012, 15:23 pm
Super rugby is the big culprit… They should limit the tournament to 5 months, nothing more! The players just play too much rugby and if youre a bok even more so. Up to now the boks are over played anyway, even if they didnt play Currie Cup it wouldnt make a difference.
The Kiwis central contracts keeps their top players from playing too much rugby during the super rugby season… SARU wouldnt go that far…imo. They should step up for the players, stop being so damn greedy and go back to a single round robin super rugby tournament in 2013 when the new broadcasting contracts are renewed!
Like that will happen!
10 Oct 2012, 15:28 pm
@John Galt-18: oh yeah…like paul jordaan can sommer demand twice what botes, deyzel & odwa are getting?
10 Oct 2012, 15:38 pm
@Transformation-20:
The Sharks will pay him what he wants if they want to keep him, knowing that our centre stocks are actually quite thin.
Is this fair? Who knows. Time will tell.
Jordaan now has to make sure he performs. He has to ensure he holds his side of the deal. If he doesnt, its only a 2 or 3 year contract and then he’s outa here with no one banging down his door for his signature.
Added to this, Botes and Odwa are in the twilight of their careers with plenty youngsters coming through in those positions.
10 Oct 2012, 15:39 pm
Sharks only playing Lambie
10 Oct 2012, 15:42 pm
That a bit of a kick in the nuts for the other players, he is like telling them he has no confidence in their ability
10 Oct 2012, 15:43 pm
10 October 2012 (14:53) – Aside from Pat Lambie’s inclusion in The Sharks starting line-up to face Griquas at Mr Price KINGS PARK on Friday evening, a host of Boks have been included to play off the bench.
Coach John Plumtree has had no hesitation in throwing five of his returning Springboks into the match 22, but the players who have taken The Sharks to top of the log get rewarded for their efforts this time in a team that shows minimal changes to the side that beat Free State last weekend.
A rotational change at scrumhalf sees Cobus Reinach and Charl McLeod swapping roles with Lambie named at flyhalf in place of Meyer Bosman who will play off the bench in the only two changes to the backline.
Amongst the forwards, the only change is enforced with Pieter Dixon out with a broken arm and Kyle Cooper starting where he ended off last week with Craig Burden providing back-up off the bench. Tighthead prop Jannie du Plessis adds further depth for the front row while Marcell Coetzee and Lwazi Mvovo are two more returning Boks to be included.
With The Sharks in the healthy position they find themselves, the potential is exciting. They do, however, face a tough encounter against a fired-up Griquas’ side and the addition of experienced players to boost the Durban side will no doubt be valuable.
“JP was massive for us last week in Bloemfontein and having some of that experience back at this crucial time is fantastic,” coach John Plumtree admits.
“We’ve looked at every individual’s different situation, obviously we have some who have played more than others. We’ve had long conversations with our Boks and we’ve got to make sure we do what’s best for the team, so we have chosen our side accordingly.”
The Sharks
15. Louis Ludik
14. Odwa Ndungane
13. Paul Jordaan
12. Tim Whitehead
11. JP Pietersen
10. Pat Lambie
9. Cobus Reinach
8. Keegan Daniel (Capt)
7. Jean Deysel
6. Jacques Botes
5. Anton Bresler
4. Jandre Marais
3. Wiehahn Herbst
2. Kyle Cooper
1. Dale Chadwick
Replacements
16. Craig Burden
17. Jannie du Plessis
18. Peet Marais
19. Marcell Coetzee
20. Charl McLeod
21. Meyer Bosman
22. Lwazi Mvovo
10 Oct 2012, 15:44 pm
@Mr Black-22: @Treehugger-23: The Sharks are playing Lambie and 21 other players
10 Oct 2012, 15:46 pm
It would be a dream come true if WP relegated
10 Oct 2012, 15:46 pm
Sharks resting most Boks, Only Lambie starts and 3 present Boks off the bench. Gives the youngsters confidence
10 Oct 2012, 15:47 pm
@Sharksgirl-25:
M
10 Oct 2012, 15:49 pm
@sharks_lover-27: Just saw that. Really pleased we have our flyhalf back for the CC. Pleased for Pat that he will get to start at 10. Great to see Reinach back at scrummie as well. Feel for Burden, was it really necessary for him to be with the Boks? He has now also had no game time for a long time.
10 Oct 2012, 15:49 pm
@Sharksgirl-25:
Good one!
10 Oct 2012, 15:50 pm
@sharks_lover-24: Excellent team. Now hope the rain stays away. Rain almost everyday here this week.
10 Oct 2012, 15:51 pm
@sharks_lover-24:
Good side.
Healthy looking bench too.
10 Oct 2012, 15:51 pm
ja, asif confidence will do chadwick a f.uck load of good
10 Oct 2012, 15:52 pm
The Sharks are so fecking awesome!!!
Topping the CC Log with so many players doing Bok Duty.
While other teams face relegation battles
10 Oct 2012, 15:52 pm
@sharks_lover-24: So Beast and Alberts get a much needed rest. Thought Jannie might have got a rest too. All have been playing non-stop rugby since Super Rugby.
10 Oct 2012, 15:53 pm
@Mr Black-34: LOL ..
10 Oct 2012, 15:54 pm
@Atreides-4: jakeys boks outplayed the blackies in 2007 but a burst of three tries in the last ten minutes made the scoreline flattering but not realistic. they also were down after 40 minutes against canada and then boom reality check in tha world cup. so, meh, i dont buy this shiiit we dont have depth we do but we are rebuilding and new zealand never needs to do that. meyer has four years of developing to catch up on for fukkk sakes!!!!
10 Oct 2012, 15:54 pm
@Transformation-33:
Your team looking the bussiness this year aswell.
10 Oct 2012, 15:55 pm
So Lambie will be taking the kicks then. Hope he has not caught the Boks woeful kicking bug?.. lol
10 Oct 2012, 15:55 pm
@Mr Black-34: Oh hell with the, words the likes of Transie and hiw WP cronies will now come out of the woodwork to tell us we sayinf we gonna win the super 15 etc etc etc, how dare you say something positive about the Sharks
10 Oct 2012, 15:56 pm
@Puma-31: I know its depressing me!!! Enough already! KZN has had almost 3 times its annual rain fall these last few months. Coming from a colleague who has nothing better to do with his time than keep a record of rain fall
10 Oct 2012, 15:56 pm
@Mr Black-38: Like i said
lol
10 Oct 2012, 15:58 pm
@Puma-39: I am sure his kicking will be fine boet, the Bok coaching staff never saw him as a player but a bench supliment
so they didnt try stuffing up his kicking too
10 Oct 2012, 15:58 pm
@Sharksgirl-41: Yeah we have had a lot of rain recently and still are having plenty.
10 Oct 2012, 15:58 pm
@Mr Black-38: Pumas are a well coached team, jimmy stonehouse not to be taken lightly…
10 Oct 2012, 15:59 pm
@sharks_lover-40:
Who cares what they say, they all secretly love the Sharks.
Ok Cheers, of to the Gym
10 Oct 2012, 16:00 pm
@sharks_lover-43: Hope not. Read Plum saying Lambie done a lot of training with the Boks and a hell of a lot of kicking training? That don’t sound good… LOL. Most of the kickers for Boks were awful. So hope our flyhalf don’t come back with the same problem all the other kickers had while at the Boks.
10 Oct 2012, 16:01 pm
@Mr Black-46:
this is true , cheers tc mate
10 Oct 2012, 16:02 pm
@Mr Black-46: LOL ..
10 Oct 2012, 16:07 pm
Lambie’s kicking wasn’t flash even before he went to the Boks, last year too
2011 SR
1. Peter Grant 84.7%
2. Aaron Cruden 80%
3. Sias Ebersohn 79.3%
4. Morne Steyn 79%
5. Matt Giteau 78.9%
6. Pat Lambie 76.7%
10 Oct 2012, 16:12 pm
@Transformation-50: Seeing Grant’s name there at the top always compels me to add a qualifier. Have you ever seen him take a kick from further than 40m? Even 40m is considered a monster kick for him.
When you stand 3 feet from the dart board, it’s not hard to rack up 180.
10 Oct 2012, 16:12 pm
@katman-51:
10 Oct 2012, 16:16 pm
@katman-51: bwaahaaaa…
10 Oct 2012, 16:23 pm
@katman-51: :mrgree: hahaha i know…
who helped grant with the over 40m kicks last year in the Stormers team, i forget?
10 Oct 2012, 16:28 pm
@katman-51:
Is it just about distance or is it also about accuracy and kicking under pressure as well.
Earlier this year Stormers beat both The Sharks and The Bulls because Grant kicked penalties over from close to the touch line in the last few minutes of the match.
10 Oct 2012, 16:29 pm
@katman-51:
Lets look at it from anoher angle.
If you are only allowed to have one kicker who has to take all the kicks (everything else equals) who would you select on current goalkicking form?
1. Grant
2. Morne
3. Sias
4. Lambie
5 Jantjes
10 Oct 2012, 16:30 pm
Goosen have the ability to kick a 60m penalty but he couldn’t land a 30m penalty in line with the poles.
What does it say about his kicking?
10 Oct 2012, 16:31 pm
Goosen has..
10 Oct 2012, 16:42 pm
@Robzim-56: That angle has another angle, you see. Because “all the kicks” is defined by who your kicker is. If I said Peter Grant, I’d probably go for touch with anything beyond the 10 yard line. Whereas if Elton were my kicker, anything between the 10 yard and half way would still warrant a crack at goal. So let’s first define what constitutes “all kicks” before we decide.
10 Oct 2012, 16:46 pm
@nama1-57: All it says is that he was nervous. And that his wonky ankle was perhaps playing on his mind. I bet you a hundred Vermillion dollars he’d put a 30m straight kick over at least 4 out of 5 times.
10 Oct 2012, 16:52 pm
@katman-60:
Precisely, there is more to kicking than just being able to kick a 50m-60m long penalty.
In the last minute of the match, your team is 2 points behind, you have a penalty 35m from the goal line, 10m from touch. Who is your man: Grant, Jantjies, Lambie, Goosen, Morne, Fransie?
10 Oct 2012, 16:58 pm
“Protector fingers Malema on tenders”
Sounds a bit dodgy.
10 Oct 2012, 17:03 pm
@nama1-61: are you suggesting that francois steyn who kicks them from 60m is a less competent kicker than say peter grant whose limit is 35m?
10 Oct 2012, 17:07 pm
@nama1-61: For me that situation is a toss up between Jantjes and Grant. But what if it’s the same situation, no time left on the clock, but the penalty is 45m out? Now add someone like Jantjes or Goosen’s all round running and distribution skills and that toss up gets tossed right out the window.
10 Oct 2012, 17:09 pm
@katman-64: and lambie?
10 Oct 2012, 17:09 pm
@Sharksgirl-41: Rain has been hectic, love it, cept it makes for a lot more work for me.
My friends house has a little dam and the water is nearly reaching her deck, nice for the Giraffe though, they don’t have to bend so far down the bank on the other side to drink.
10 Oct 2012, 17:11 pm
@Puma-44: Sort it out. Im getting married in your neck of the woods next week Saturday.
10 Oct 2012, 17:12 pm
@Transformation-65: A distant third.
10 Oct 2012, 17:16 pm
@Robzim-56: current goalkicking form… I don’t think anyone knows what Lambie’s current form is. He’s maybe had 5 pots in the last 5/6 weeks.
10 Oct 2012, 17:17 pm
@shooter-69: exactly
10 Oct 2012, 17:19 pm
the only one with no (kicking) form is Morne.
10 Oct 2012, 17:19 pm
I thought elton showed huge temperment with the way he kicked his goals last weekend.
But in all honesty, if all the mentioned players were on form and at their best…morne is light years ahead when it comes to kicking
10 Oct 2012, 17:20 pm
@Transformation-63:
Yes.
What is his success rate from 60m? Overall?
Rather have a kicker who can bang them over from 35-40m at 85% success rate. If he has the BMT to kick them over under huge pressure (to win a match from the side lines) even better.
10 Oct 2012, 17:21 pm
which is saying – revert back to the standard question – who is thebestest kicker? = Morne
10 Oct 2012, 17:23 pm
67…hey congrats must say though getting married in a trailor at the shark tank parking lot wouldnt be my choice of venue but maybe i am just old fashioned?
10 Oct 2012, 17:25 pm
@katman-64:
Mmmmm…I hear you.
I guess your 50m kicker’s chance of success is probably the same as my accurate albeit limited in range kicker.
Your kicker’s direction may be off and my kicker may be short.
10 Oct 2012, 17:26 pm
@nama1-73: Some fundi can maybe design an app for that. like a handicap factored point duckworth distance accuracy kickometer. homeground/ distance/ ratio/ altitude… you get the drift. then we shall see.
10 Oct 2012, 17:26 pm
@Taahirah-67:
Sterkte.
@Brigadier Van Zyl-75:
10 Oct 2012, 17:27 pm
Good side for sat but we needed to rest JDV, the guys getting over played, will prob break down next year during the Super 15 comp.
Is Brache and JDJ seriously not good enough to play as a combo against the Cheetahs??? come on wheres the faith in the player?? I think this combo would be more exciting.
DeAllende is going to be very good, only 20 years old and I’d like to c him get some game time in the Super 15 next year, looks like he could be a beast at centre.
I wouldve started Louis at 9 rather than Groom, grooms got alot of fight but I think Louis has more pedigree as a scrummie.
Deon Carstens is a better option on the bench, can play both sides. Brok cant even dominate at 3, thought by this time that he’d be seriously good. He’s 27 and has plenty caps but still doesnt kill oaks at scrum time?? Good thing pat is coming
abt Elstadt, he’s injured and is a quality player, had a great season in 2011 as a number 4 lock.
Tiaan and JDJ will be hungry to play, they havent played much rugby lately. Hopefully JDJ can show us some of wat he used to do.
Even if Province were sittin in a better position, I think he’d still play most of them.
He over plays guys during Super 15, Look at a guy like JDV,Bekker, even the young Kitsie has been played into the ground.
10 Oct 2012, 17:27 pm
@shooter-77: factor in difference of score at the time of the kick too – and while we’re getting factored – the moment/ time in the game too.
10 Oct 2012, 17:29 pm
i guess a formula, instead of an app would do it. and you don’t need a fundi.
10 Oct 2012, 17:32 pm
@shooter-77:
Would be interesting.
Another interesting point re kickers,…..the great goal kickers have all been players with a limited range, say about 40m.
Naas Botha, Olly Campbell, Grant Fox, Joel stransky, Dan Carter even Johnny Wilkinson did not take kicks from his half way line, I think.
10 Oct 2012, 17:35 pm
@Fleckie-79:
Schreuder pissed me off when he kicked the ball away in the 78th minute of the semi final in the S15.
We need to groom Groom (pun intended) to be the no. 1 SH for the S15 next year.
10 Oct 2012, 18:22 pm
@nama1-83: do you get MetroFm where you live?
Marawa has just confirmed a part deux of the general look at SA Rugby & suggested that “those whose feathers were ruffled yesterday get in touch with his producer” so as to be able to present their views too.
it’s getting warm…
10 Oct 2012, 18:31 pm
@Transformation-84:
Unfortunately not.
about time somebody speaks out.
10 Oct 2012, 19:00 pm
@nama1-85: plus you know he rubs shoulders with some of the people mametsa fingered at Supersport, on a daily basis…
can’t wait for next week.
10 Oct 2012, 19:01 pm
Yay Shooter
Why don’t you design it
10 Oct 2012, 19:10 pm
@Transformation-86:
Keep me in the loop about new developments, please.
10 Oct 2012, 19:15 pm
It seems Jantjies will now only announce his decision next week.
Johannesburg – Springbok flyhalf Elton Jantjies will decide his future by next week if all goes well, according to the supersport.com website.
Jantjies agent, James Adams, said he met with the Jantjies family on Tuesday night, and took instructions as to which province to conclude negotiations with.
The flyhalf has been linked to the Kings, Bulls, Sharks and Stormers, with the latter the most viable option after they put a big money offer on the table for his services.
“We met on Tuesday to receive instructions. The decision was made as to which union we would enter into negotiations with. The move will only be finalised at the end of the week,” Adams said via sms.
10 Oct 2012, 19:19 pm
How we continue to **** ourselves over in rugby remains one of the biggest mysteries and biggest jokes for me.
10 Oct 2012, 19:21 pm
I put R1000 on the fact that Eben Etzebeth will break down with injury during Super Rugby next year.
10 Oct 2012, 19:25 pm
I said earlier that people with silly comments re Lambie should get to know the facts first.
Well here Plumtree says exactly that aboput people and their short memories.
John Plumtree © Gallo Images
‘Comebacks and kittens’ – Nick Koster
Lambie is our first-choice 10 – Plumtree
——————————————————————————–
by Gavin Rich 10 October 2012, 16:03
The selection of Patrick Lambie at flyhalf for the Sharks team to play against Griquas on Friday should give Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer an interesting extra No 10 option for the end-of-year tour.
However, Sharks coach John Plumtree has stressed that while Lambie hasn’t played at pivot for his team for a while, there is not really anything new about the selection.
Indeed, Lambie has been the first-choice flyhalf for the Sharks all year, and was only moved to fullback after he had been out with injury.
“People have short memories and I suppose with so much rugby being played its understandable, but Pat was actually our first-choice flyhalf for the first half of Super Rugby,” said Plumtree.
“We started off with Pat at flyhalf and you will recall that at the time Frederic Michalak either played off the bench or at scrumhalf.
“It was only after Pat got injured that we moved Freddie into No 10. Once Freddie started playing well it was difficult to change, but even then, Pat was out most of the time with injury.
“He broke his jaw then had a few other injuries that kept him off the playing field. The last game he played for us was at No 15, and that was the Super Rugby final. But he had been out for a while and Freddie had been playing well so we couldn’t really choose him at flyhalf for that game.”
With Lambie playing flyhalf again, Meyer now has three choices at No 10, now that Johan Goosen has been ruled out for the rest of the season with injury: Elton Jantjies, Morne Steyn and Lambie.
The latter was Steyn’s understudy on the 2010 overseas tour and had it not been for the unexpected loss to Scotland, the then coach Peter de Villiers may well have selected Lambie at flyhalf for the test against England at Twickenham.
Instead, because of the defeat, the Boks were forced into a backs-to-the-wall reactive mindset and the conservative option, with Steyn boasting more experience, was favoured.
It was understood that the reason Meyer never considered Lambie as a flyhalf was because he hadn’t played there for the Sharks this year, so this is the Natalian’s chance to show that he is also an option at No 10.
It was as a flyhalf for the Sharks in the 2010 Currie Cup season that Lambie made his first really big statement at first-class level in South Africa, and his match-winning performance against Western Province in the Durban final marked him as a player of great potential.
However, he wasn’t at his best in the 2011 Super Rugby season when he played flyhalf and his best game was probably the one he played from fullback when Michalak took up pivot in the decisive final league game against the Bulls at Loftus which the Sharks unexpectedly won to leapfrog the Pretoria team into the play-offs.
Unlike WP coach Allister Coetzee, Plumtree is phasing his Boks back into Currie Cup action, and has not selected a raft of first-choice Boks for this week’s final league game against Griquas.
There again, the Sharks and the Lions are the only teams not facing the prospect of a possible relegation battle, so perhaps that is understandable.
Aside from Lambie, no other member of the current Bok 22 was into the starting team.
Jannie du Plessis and Marcell Coetzee were chosen on the bench while first-choice Bok wing JP Pietersen, in such fine form before injury cut his season short, will continue his comeback in the No 11 jersey.
Lwazi Mvovo and Craig Burden, two players in the wider Bok group of 30, will also play off the bench at Mr Price Kings Park.
While it is probably true that the Sharks can afford to be a bit under-strength at home to Griquas and thus rest the star players for the play-offs, it might also be that Plumtree has learned his lesson from last year, when the Sharks selected their Boks for the Currie Cup final but then lost to a Lions team that benefited from greater continuity in selection.
THE SHARKS: Louis Ludik, Odwa Ndungane, Paul Jordaan, Tim Whitehead, JP Pietersen, Patrick Lambie, Cobus Reinach, Keegan Daniel (captain), Jean Deysel, Jacques Botes, Anton Bresler, Jandre Marais, Wiehahn Herbst, Kyle Cooper, Dale Chadwick.
Replacements: Craig Burden, Jannie du Plessis, Peet Marais, Marcell Coetzee, Charl McLeod, Meyer Bosman, Lwazi Mvovo.
10 Oct 2012, 19:30 pm
Shark Lover to Lambie: “who’s your daddy”
Puma to Lambie : “I am your father”
10 Oct 2012, 19:34 pm
@PissAnt-91: This is true PA
10 Oct 2012, 19:35 pm
@Dawn-93:
ok that was funny
10 Oct 2012, 19:37 pm
@PissAnt-90: I am glad Plum is resting most of the Sharks Boks, it’s been a very long season, woulda thought he would have rested Jannie too
10 Oct 2012, 19:50 pm
@Treehugger-66: Talking about giraffe did you see the story last week?
A zoo in China had to move one to new premises 7km away but were faced with over 20 low bridges, road signs, overhead cables etc.
So what did they do.
Simple, they taught it to duck!
It’s true, Google it.
10 Oct 2012, 19:53 pm
Wtf !!! I didn’t know there was a relegation in this years Currie Cup, for Super 15 yes. How come ? Have been a bit out of the loop for a few weeks.
10 Oct 2012, 19:59 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-97: hahaha you serious, am surprised cos the have a shocking record with animal welfare. No man, a Giraffe can’t really duck I see them all the time. Most proberly tazer’d the poor thing or something.
10 Oct 2012, 20:05 pm
@Treehugger-99: I kid you not! I first read the report in a newspaper then went to Google after that, they had pictures of its head sticking out of some kind of container on the back of a truck.
A nice story for a change…
10 Oct 2012, 20:10 pm
The judge asks:’why do you keep beating her?’ Brakpan oukie replies: ‘I fink it’s my weight advantage,long reach and surperior foot work’…
10 Oct 2012, 20:15 pm
What AC is saying is true, and with commerce driving Pro sport – I for one would like to see EP replacing Griquas. Rugby reasons appart, EP has “new” rugby money whereas Griquas is still pro/ amateur. It makes for a stronger brand, the natural way of evolution. PE vs Kimberley.., city vs town. Such is demographic and commercial clout.
10 Oct 2012, 20:26 pm
@PissAnt-91:
Which bookie offered odds?
10 Oct 2012, 20:35 pm
On the subject of kicking, discussed earlier in this thread:
Goosen was the leading points scorer in this year’s Super Rugby tournament – his first – until he got injured (in fact, it took some time for the other kickers to catch him even after he was injured). The Goose can kick.
Also, we’ve probably seen enough to suggest that Louis Koen should get the sack.
10 Oct 2012, 20:52 pm
@Transformation-84:
Do you by any chance know if they podcast his programms on Metro website? Would like to listen to it. What time is his show?
10 Oct 2012, 20:52 pm
@sharks_lover-92: “However, he wasn’t at his best in the 2011 Super Rugby season when he played flyhalf and his best game was probably the one he played from fullback when Michalak took up pivot”
so even your Gavin Rich agrees wt Nama, Xhosakid & I who said yesterday Lambie wasn’t particularly flash at 10 this season to warrant the amount of hullabaloo that was made by some of the guppys.
10 Oct 2012, 20:55 pm
@Peter Mkata-105: his show is on everyday at 18:00 to 19:30, i’ll find out if they do.
10 Oct 2012, 20:58 pm
@Pot Blou Gevaar-102:
Pure common sense should dictate that. You know how selfish people are and to make it even worse the Kings are led by die NUWE GROOT GEVAAR namely Cheeky Watson. Aih some South African are really stuffed up in their heads. They deserve to be incarcerated at a mental institution until they change for the better.
10 Oct 2012, 20:59 pm
Next time you get a bill of R100k from your municipality, think about this woman.
Woman gets trillion-euro phone bill
Bordeaux – A Frenchwoman who received a telephone bill for an amount equivalent to nearly 6 000 times the country’s annual economic output has had the real amount she owed waived – after finally convincing the company they must have made a mistake.
Solenne San Jose, from Pessac in the Bordeaux region of south-western France, could not believe her eyes when she opened the bill to discover she was being asked to pay €11 721 000 000 000 000 to close her account.
“There were so many zeroes I couldn’t even work out how much it was,” she said.
San Jose’s alarm mounted when operators at Bouygues Telecom told her they could not amend the computer-generated statement or stop the balance from being debited from her bank account.
Only after a series of frantic calls did the company finally admit the bill should have been for €117.21.
Bouygues Telecom said the mix-up had been due to a printing error and a subsequent misunderstanding between the client and staff at their call centre.
10 Oct 2012, 21:05 pm
@Transformation-106: No he said he wasnt that good in 2011.
Dont twist words to suite your agenda, last year Jantjes wasnt very good either, but we all know this year is a different story NO???
The moral of the story is lambie was not dropped because of play being poor and was the first choice flyhalf for the Shaarks, injuries and bad form by the likes of Ludick and Viljoen is what made Plum select Lambie at 15.
And that is what i pointed out, and like PLum said, some of you okes got short memories!!!
10 Oct 2012, 21:12 pm
@Peter Mkata-108:
) in the promotion/relegation match….just to see how SARU scramble to extend the competition to 7 teams for next year in a bid to keep them up.
I would actually like to see the Kings beat one of the big unions if they end up in last spot (Cheetahs or Blue Bulls, not WP of course
10 Oct 2012, 21:16 pm
@Transformation-50: Transie, the fascinating thing about those stats is that two cougars who at the start of their careers COULD NOT HIT A BARN DOOR FROM 5m are now at or around the 80% mark – Cruden and Giteau.
Cruden in particular was a terrible kicker when he first made the AB’s, both from place kicks and from hand – in accurate and feeble distance. Yet in the space of 12 months, he has been turned into an accomplished all round kicker!
It tends to suggest the correct approach is to identify the most talented, smart playmakers at No 10, and then teach them to kick properly if that is necessary. Thus I much prefer a Lambie type player at 10 (playmaker first kicker second) to a Morne Steyn (kicker first, second, third etc, no playmaking abilities).
I realise that this is anathma to the SA tradition, and indeed it was in NZ as well. But thankfully we have learnt a thing or two from the Aussies!
10 Oct 2012, 21:20 pm
@nama1-111: It boggles the mind that SARU can guarantee a place for the Kings in the Super 15, yet they’re still not guaranteed a place in the Currie Cup Premier Division. Logically, each tier should contain seven teams next year.
10 Oct 2012, 21:21 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-100: yebo, very few of them sadly.
10 Oct 2012, 21:23 pm
As I have said before, Robbie Deans considered that Carter didn’t have the necessary skill set to play at 10 (which was why he only got a bit part at 12 in the 2003 RWC with a past it Spencer losing the semi for us gifting the intercept for Mortlock). If he and Mitch had retained the All Black coaching position in 2003, Carter might have given up and gone to play in England!
Interestingly, Henry was convinced by others not to take either Spencer or Merthens on Henry’s first EOYT to the British Isles, so that he (Henry) would have to give the full responsibility at No10 to Carter and whoever his back up was at the time. The rationale being that if he had either of those players in the team, if Carter stumbled then Henry would fall back on the safe option. (Also Spencer was seen as a dominant and somewhat negative influence on the team culture along with Marshall, which was another reason both were left behind that year).
There are some strong parallels here for the Bok EOYT.
10 Oct 2012, 21:28 pm
The veracity of possibly the worst sports’ DOPING (beware ‘Boks it’s often in your corner) incident that I highlighted on this site about a year ago via the CBS’ 60 MINUTES exposure, can now not ever be rationally explained, excused or denied by any smartarse on here as the story below confirms:
Updated Oct 10, 2012 1:59 PM ET
USADA: Teammates testified vs. Lance
Lance Armstrong challenged the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency to name names and say what it had on him.
On Wednesday it did.
The anti-doping body revealed a group of 11 former Armstrong teammates – some loyal, some estranged – who each provided evidence of drug use on the U.S. Postal Service team. USADA Chief Executive Travis Tygart called it ”the most sophisticated, professionalized and successful doping program that sport has ever seen.”
USADA will deliver its reasoned decision against Armstrong later Wednesday, a summary of the facts it used to hand him a lifetime suspension and erase his titles. The organization has banned the seven-time Tour de France winner from competition for life and declared his victories null and void.
In a news release previewing the decision, Tygart said it would include more than 1,000 pages of evidence. He listed 11 of Armstrong’s former teammates, including George Hincapie, Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton, as among those providing evidence that led to the sanction.
Tygart said the evidence shows the code of silence that dominated cycling has been shattered.
”It took tremendous courage for the riders on the USPS Team and others to come forward and speak truthfully,” he said. ”It is not easy to admit your mistakes and accept your punishment. But that is what these riders have done for the good of the sport.”
Armstrong’s attorney, Tim Herman, called the report ”a one-sided hatchet job – a taxpayer funded tabloid piece rehashing old, disproved, unreliable allegations based largely on axe-grinders, serial perjurers, coerced testimony, sweetheart deals and threat-induced stories.”
Aware of the criticism it has faced from Armstrong and his legion of followers, Tygart insisted USADA handled this case under the same rules as any other. He pointed out that Armstrong was given the chance to take his case to arbitration and he declined, choosing to accept the sanctions instead.
”We focused solely on finding the truth without being influenced by celebrity or non-celebrity, threats, personal attacks or political pressure because that is what clean athletes deserve and demand,” Tygart said.
In delivering the report to the International Cycling Union, Tygart called for the federation to create a meaningful program to help clean up the sport.
The USADA report was widely expected to pull together and amplify allegations that have followed Armstrong ever since he beat cancer and won the Tour for the first time. At various times and in different forums, Landis, Hamilton and others have said that Armstrong encouraged doping on his team and used banned substances himself.
While the arguments about Armstrong will continue among sports fans – and there is still a question of whether USADA or UCI has ultimate control of taking away his Tour titles – the new report puts a cap on the official investigations. Armstrong was cleared of criminal charges in February after a federal grand jury probe that lasted about two years.
Tygart said evidence from 26 people, including 15 riders with knowledge of the U.S. Postal Service Team’s doping activities, provided material for the report. It was with the USPS team that Armstrong won all but one of his Tour titles from 1999-2005.
Other cyclists named in the news release were Frankie Andreu, Michael Barry, Tom Danielson, Levi Leipheimer, Stephen Swart, Christian Vande Velde, Jonathan Vaughters and David Zabriskie.
In a letter sent to USADA attorneys Tuesday, Herman dismissed any evidence provided by Landis and Hamilton, calling them ”serial perjurers and have told diametrically contradictory stories under oath.”
Hincapie’s role in the investigation could be more damaging, as he was one of Armstrong’s closest and most loyal teammates through the years.
”Two years ago, I was approached by U.S. federal investigators, and more recently by USADA, and asked to tell of my personal experience in these matters,” the cyclist said in a statement published shortly after USADA’s release. ”I would have been much more comfortable talking only about myself, but understood that I was obligated to tell the truth about everything I knew. So that is what I did.”
Hincapie’s two-page statement did not mention Armstrong by name.
Tygart said all the evidence in the Armstrong case and the cases of six other riders targeted in USADA’s investigation would be made available on the agency’s website later Wednesday.
Two other players in the Postal team’s circle, Dr. Michele Ferrari and Dr. Garcia del Moral, also received lifetime bans as part of the case.
Three other members of the USPS team will take their cases to arbitration. They are team director Johan Bruyneel, team doctor Pedro Celaya and team trainer Jose ”Pepe” Marti.
Armstrong chose not to pursue the case and instead accepted the sanction, though he has persistently argued that the USADA system was rigged against him, calling the agency’s effort a ”witch hunt” that used special rules it doesn’t follow in all its other cases.
The UCI has asked for details of the case before it decides whether to sign off on the sanctions. The federation has 21 days to appeal the case to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.
USADA has said it doesn’t need UCI’s approval and Armstrong’s penalties already are in place.
UCI President Pat McQuaid, who is in China for the Tour of Beijing, did not respond to telephone calls from The Associated Press requesting comment.
The report also will go to the World Anti-Doping Agency, which also has the right to appeal, but so far has supported USADA’s position in the Armstrong case.
ASO, the company that runs the Tour de France and could have a say in where Armstrong’s titles eventually go, said it has ”no particular comment to make on this subject.”
10 Oct 2012, 21:30 pm
@corporal punishment-112: it is only anathema to the verkrampte! the reason why pdv even played ruan at 10 was because at the end if ’08 & beginning of ’09 pienaar showed serious aptitude to make play & direct the game but his kicking was very erratic & in the environment of having to win EVERYTHING jettisoned the pienaar experiment for the sharp shooting MSteyn – for sure with matfield & du preez egging on for morne.
10 Oct 2012, 21:31 pm
The above disgusting doping matter is now closed as far as I am concerned as the SKUNK got what he so well deserved.
Cheating in sports by using drugs, apart from being extremely harmful is the most nauseating manner to get to the top. From that lofty position you only FALL.
10 Oct 2012, 21:38 pm
@super_adi-113:
You can be assured that some change in the system will take place if the Kings beat anyone of the Cheetahs or the Blue Bulls or WP in a promotion/relegation match.
However, if the Griquas end up in last place and lose the promotion/relegation match, they’ll play in the CC first division next year.
10 Oct 2012, 21:42 pm
Another important view, idea I brought to this site was the importance of PROTEINS in any life. All membrane receptors are proteins. The story below clinches that for you doubting mugs:
2012 Nobel Prize in Chemistry awarded for G-protein-coupled receptors
The Nobel Prize Committee in Sweden announced on Wednesday that the 2012 Nobel Prize in Chemistry has been awarded to Americans Robert J. Lefkowitz and Brian K. for their combined work on discovering and understanding the function of G-protein-coupled receptors in cells.
G-protein-coupled receptors are a group of cell receptors which cells use to sense their environments by receiving various hormones in order to change bodily functions to adapt accordingly.
Lefkowitz started his research in 1968 with Kobilka joining the team in in the 1980s, and their research spanned several decades up until Kobilka’s 2011 image capture of one of these receptors, a ?-adrenergic receptor, at the time that it is activated by a hormone and signals the cell accordingly.
Robert J. Lefkowitz is an Investigator at the Howard Hughes Medical Institute and the James B. Duke Professor of Medicine as well as a Professor of Biochemistry at the Duke University Medical Center in Durham, North Carolina.
Brian K. Kobilka is a Professor of Medicine as well as a Professor of Molecular and Cellular Physiology at the Stanford University School of Medicine in Stanford, California.
The prize will be awarded on December 10, 2012 in Stockholm by Sweden’s King Carl XVI Gustaf and includes a monetary prize of 8 million Swedish krona (almost $1.2 million).
10 Oct 2012, 21:43 pm
@Transformation-117: Transie, the other significant difference between NZ and SA teams is that your No9′s are expected to be playmakers, particularly playing a kicking game, whereas in NZ the job of the No9 is simply to get the ball to the No10 who then makes all the playmaking decisions.
This is possibly why Bok supporters generally say the AB’s have rubbish half backs. Yes, our half backs aren’t much good at a lot of the stuff that a Joost or FdP does, but they are playing a different role. This is particularly highlighted by Aaron Smith – many Bokke supporters can’t see what is special about him – whereas Kiwi’s marvel about the extra time and space he creates for the decision maker at 10.
One other thing. If the 9 is the playmaker, he only has one direction he can pass on the open side (the best option for creating overlaps). Whereas the No10 has two options – an outside pass or an inside pass. If the No10 is able to stand quite wide as Carter does some of the time, this accentuates the inside option. This forces the opposition to hold defenders on the inside channel, particularly if the No10 takes the ball flat and has a running game. If the opposition defence isn’t well organised, as was the case on Sat, this approach limits the width of the opposition defence or alternatively creates midfield holes.
Focusing the defence on a wider No10 also creates running opportunities for the halfback as the game wears on. When Genia is playing, the Aussies are great at manipulating this. They make a point of having running No10s who can pass off both hands, and after doing this for a while, BOOM Genia makes an inside break. This has suckered the AB’s getting on to half a dozen times!
I’m happy to come give a coaching clinic on back line play if you promise to treat me nice
10 Oct 2012, 22:01 pm
@ET.-116:
Yeah, he most likely doped, but he was still the greatest Tour de France rider in the history of the sport..The top guys probably all doped during that era -the ex tour winner Bjarne Riis (a covicted doper who is allowed to keep his jersey) called doping “the circumstance of the business” of the time.
It’s going to be very interesting who wil get his jerseys. If they hand it to second place riders during those years it will mean that Jan Ulrich who himself is a convicted doper will become a 4 time winner of the tour – what a farce
10 Oct 2012, 22:05 pm
ET
I didn’t get anything.
10 Oct 2012, 22:06 pm
@corporal punishment-121: *sigh* just last thursday i had to justify what is so special about aaron smith & i reckon you’ve closed the debate SHUT!
10 Oct 2012, 22:06 pm
wtf g-receptors got to do with anything?
gdam that **** is horrifically boring, tinkering with details, whats the big picture…
10 Oct 2012, 22:12 pm
@corporal punishment-121: we’ve needed the playmaking 9s to mask the deficiencies of louis koen, jannie de beer, braam van straaten, morne steyn, peter grant, joel stransky, herkie kruger etc = robotic kicking machines.
10 Oct 2012, 22:14 pm
@nama1-111:
Nama there is already talk from Bloemfontein of reverting to 8 currie cup league with Kings and Pumas getting automatic promotion. Check out EP Kings Army website.
I also would love to see how those self serving spineless leaders of SARU will unscramble the egg. How I wish Steve Tshwete was still alive to sort this mess out. He did not bit about the bush, great rugby man who played for Border (old non-racial Saru) as a flank in his days.
10 Oct 2012, 22:17 pm
@Transformation-107:
Thanks Transie.
10 Oct 2012, 22:26 pm
@Transformation-126:
Such a sad indictment in our rugby. We had good 10s not so long ago – Robie Blair, Colin Beck, Michael du Plessis, DeWet Ras in establishment rugby of the 70s and 80s. Then Peter Mkata, Errol Tobias and many others in nonracial Saru.. Then the skop and jag era of Naas Botha began.
10 Oct 2012, 22:26 pm
@Transformation-126: I think the Aussie model is best, with a Gregan/Larkham or a Genia/[non-flakey version of cooper
]
Genia inside Dan Carter would be awesome.
10 Oct 2012, 22:26 pm
the big picture is BOOM everybody going up in smoke in a matter of sundaes from here.. so if a dinosaur can morph into a bird into a gazelle into a horse into a dog, and a chimp can morph into a human simple by adapting to the environmental fields that feed its protein receptors to enact some adaptation in its chromosome or DNA structure.. there you go nature is busy creating creation as you morph along with her.
The problem with SA fly halves has nothing to do with their lack of talent it has everything to do with the fear based ideology that drives rugby in this country.. so f’ng sh’t scared to lose they don’t know how to win..
Its these goddamn coward chicken arsed ego ridden coaches.. every last one of them cowards through and through,, Williams, Markgraaf, Streauli, White, e Villiers, Meyer.. every goddamn last one of them are the worst rugby cowards ever to have coached the Boks into the dark ages of sheer outright fear of losing cowardice. Nothing wrong with the level of ability and talent.. everything to do with the outright fear ridden cowardice that kills every last iota of exhilaration rugby ingenuity out of the players conditioning. By the time they get into a Springbok jersey they are toast.. all the natural talent has been eroded and decimated through the fear driven tactics to hell and back already.
That is the fundamental difference between Boks and AB’s / Aussie / France and even Wales and Ireland.. sheer fear of losing equates to absolute fear to win.
10 Oct 2012, 22:30 pm
@fitz1ella-131: With Jantjies, Lambie and Goosen you really do have the talent to break the mould of the last 20 years. Will your coach be brave enough to do so?
10 Oct 2012, 22:31 pm
@Peter Mkata-127:
How disappointing the faith and respect you show for non-racial sell-out Steve (only-a-few-dollars-more) Tshwete.
He always went ‘jelly’ in the knees for money.
By merger negotiation the 2 ‘national’ cricket bodies agreed not to participate in the 1992 CWC (ODI) in Australia as part of the deal.
No sooner did the ink dry on that negotiation when the racist cricket component through one of their many money men convinced Stevie not-Wonder, with dollars, to allow the Proteas to go to Australia (thankfully they lost because they could not score 18 runs off 1 ball).
10 Oct 2012, 22:34 pm
@corporal punishment-132: Nope not this coach .. he’s a goddamn coward.. maybe worse than the last and the one before that… Kick first ask questions later.. that’s our motto over here.. been like that since Nasty Booter and it aint about to be changing any time soon.. The only respite we had was 2 years at the end of the penaultimate decade before the millennium broke its back with Henry Honibal.. every other year its been boom shakalak skop die donner doer oor die pawiljoen.
10 Oct 2012, 22:37 pm
translation = kick that bugger far as you can over the other side of the pavilion.
10 Oct 2012, 22:40 pm
I’d like to comment on what I think is another misconception of AB rugby amongst many of the Bok posters on this site.
Many comment that they rate the AB side of 96 as the best ever AB side, above this current side.
I would describe that team as the best ATTACKING side the AB’s have ever produced. The AB’s haven’t seen players with the attacking powers of Cullen and Lomu before or since.
However, that AB side had weaknesses on defence, including Cullen’s poor kicking game meaning the AB’s didn’t have a good tactical kicking game outside Merhtens. This lack of focus on the all round game at the expense of attacking firepower dogged the AB’s from 2006 through to the start of the 2010 season.
What changed in 2010 is that the AB coaches sacrificed some attacking firepower dropping Sivi and Rokococo, and instead picking more SA styled wingers who were much better all rounders and particularly who were better under the high ball.
This AB side is definately not as strong on attack as a number of AB sides from 96 to 2009, BUT it is rock solid on defence and this has allowed us to win close games that would have previously have slipped through our grasp.
I think it is this change, and this change alone, that allowed us to win the 2011 WC somewhat against the odds having lost DC and with our other two best players fairly badly injured (McCaw and Read).
Willingness to learn off other teams, including the Springboks, is one of the great things that the Henry era brought to the AB team. I think this is one of the reasons that the AB’s now get on much better with the Bok players – we have a genuine respect for the qualities of your players and want to learn from your strengths (whilst punishing your weaknesses ha ha).
10 Oct 2012, 22:50 pm
Boom, we all going up in smoke, how you know – maybe we create an advanced orangutang or even a new universe with just the right conditions where we eat sundaes every day of the week, tra lala lala
10 Oct 2012, 22:59 pm
how many times you gone up in smoke already and you don’t even know about it.. how many times you gone round and round the same wagon wheel and you don’t even know how many times you been traipsing up and down the grand Ferris wheel.
its only been a matter of around 300 years since you started peeking out from under natures petticoat and finding out you far more than an evolved orangutan peering into the vast cosmic oceans seeking for clues to your existence.. and then .. poof.. just like the dinosaurs .. boom.. bang .. crash.. go back to go and start all over again…
without a trace of who you are or where you were or been before.
10 Oct 2012, 23:04 pm
what? who gone up in smoke, only one time around, once and only, if theres another i hope i come back as a pair of boobies, any ideas how to get that right?
10 Oct 2012, 23:08 pm
so in 100,000 years of hairless ape, and 3billion years of life on earth, ours is the ony one who in the last eyeblink got any fathom of anything, seens like an awful long time of pointlessness, whose to say not another species on planet zoltan who far far more advanced than we are, in fact surely there’s a far greater possibility of that being true than anything else – so what makes being a human being so special at all?
10 Oct 2012, 23:17 pm
there plenty species plenty places else.. who you think you are.. Adam the unique?
That why you don’t have the faintest.. the scope of our educated guesswork is so infinitesimal and incomplete you don’t have the foggiest faintest minutest idea of who’s who in the ever evolving zoo .. and uncle Darwin didn’t have a hickory dickory clue.
10 Oct 2012, 23:17 pm
@Robzim-122: what’s great about a cheat? the very antithesis of sport. If they were all cheating then it wasn’t a sport, but rather a farce.
10 Oct 2012, 23:18 pm
@cab-140: Come now Cab, as we Kiwi’s are constantly reminded, we are on a South African website. The answer is clearly SOUTH AFRICAN RUGBY!
10 Oct 2012, 23:20 pm
@corporal punishment-143:
great point corporal – pretty much one of a handful of truly important things.
if only we started to select and play better, it could even be enjoyable.
10 Oct 2012, 23:25 pm
uncle darwin, gave us the first clue, there been many more a-coming fast and furious since, but as you say its only around the last couple hundred years we gotta any clue – thank god for the labjockeys, otherwise we’d still be contemplating our asses like the tutus – i been reading all this tutu **** on the tube, and am embarresed – i aint read so much hocus pocus **** in all me life, if any of that **** is true, its a complete fkn shambles, but every tututribe say something different, pretty much as dogmatic as the huiliges.
10 Oct 2012, 23:34 pm
exactly why it can all go poof for another 3 billion years before it comes around to wakey wakey time again.. you think suns and solar systems and galaxies don’t go poof back up their arseholes .. super nova then red giant then white dwarf then black hole .. into where .. nothingness? and that is a major dissolution.. what about all the minor dissolution’s in-between.. like here on this planet alone.. how many times its gone through cycles of species,., where the dinosaurs come from .., where the giants and the cyclops’s go to ., how many civilizations you know about that existed before this one.. how advanced were the Egyptians and Phoenicians, and Sumerians, and Mayan and ancient Chinese., and who before that?.. They found entire cities under the oceans off Japanese coastlines., yet no trace of any recorded history., how many ice ages., how many waxing and waning of civilization from advanced learning to dark ages of ignorance.., and back up and then back down again. Has the earth shifted on its axis before or not.. no scientist can verify a yes or a no.. was Antarctica once inhabited at the equator, yes .., no.., maybe.., if not why not..? and if not are there traces of extra terrestrial activity on this planet or not.. ?
One smack from a meteor and its back to the drawing board for another how many million or billion years of regenerating chromosomes and DNA back to a specie that can think and determine its own intelligent design all the way from nothing.
10 Oct 2012, 23:39 pm
giants and cyclops in the fairy tales, aesops fables or greek myths – same with atlantis and neverneverland – what **** u talking … when u go on about this conspiracy theory kak thats when i get v worried, the stuff with a modicum of sense, is the stuff about our conceptualising being limited and possibly learned and that there’s possible nothing to begin with (but even that there major problems with), but when u start with the emanations and distillations and trasnmigrations, thats all dogma, plan and simple.
10 Oct 2012, 23:47 pm
so Zeus and Apollo is Aesop fairy tales., old Plato was just a dreamer and Socrates didn’t know his arse from his elbow.
who do you actually think man is.. an evolved animal or a conscious being
Darwin got his Aesop’s fable upside down.. he thinks he’s a goddamn apeman .. when in fact half of him is a degenerated spaceman.
10 Oct 2012, 23:50 pm
matter before mind, not the other way around – what u think that grey noodle in your head is for ? u reckon its for show or a honing beacon of iets ? how much of the universe u reckon u;ll be conteplating with a frontal lobotomy?
10 Oct 2012, 23:52 pm
there is no empirical knowledge about who you are.. not a goddamn sausage of any empirical knowledge about whether you are a chimp or an orangutan or a ethereal displaced moron from Pleiades or Zardoz
keep trying to split matter into more infinite realms of non existence and eventually you get what? … nothing.. or something?
what you see and theorize about as fixed and real is exactly the opposite.. it is mutable and unreal
10 Oct 2012, 23:52 pm
socrates knew he knew nothing, which is why he questioned, something the tutus no like. socrates also said know thyself, i.e. your limits, not your navel.
10 Oct 2012, 23:55 pm
who says anything’s fixed and real? youe straw-scientist must be about 300 years ago when bertie the bullshitter steiner still going on about animus and such spark-of-life ****. time you updated.
10 Oct 2012, 23:58 pm
the universe is made up of what.. matter .. or dark matter.. what is the actual fabric of existence?
how much of the known or seen physical universe is real and how much is unseen .. and which is the real universe.. the material mutable unfixed one.. or the fixed and unseen (quantum) universe
when a sun goes super nova and collapses into a black hole.. where does all that ‘real’ matter go to? .. poof .. into ‘nothing’ or where?
how much of you do you think is matter and how much of you is mind.. and how much of you is ephemeral and how much of you is eternal…
Darwin or Dawkins don’t have the beginning of the foggiest faintest clue.. and neither do you.
10 Oct 2012, 23:59 pm
Back to the rugby, Sam Cane will be looking over his shoulder at Julian’s little brother (see article below). I also read an article about another freakish flanker coming through the NZ schools rugby comps, who was described as more physically gifted than Lomu. Unfortunately I can’t remember the guys name and can’t refind the article!!
New Hurricanes recruit Ardie Savea has been likened to All Blacks legend Michael Jones by the coaching staff that secured his signature.
Four days short of his 19th birthday, the dynamic openside flanker and New Zealand Sevens rep yesterday became the 26th Hurricane signed for the next Super Rugby season. Having agreed to a two-year deal, he’ll join elder brother Julian in coach Mark Hammett’s 2013 squad as the odds rapidly shorten on the pair wearing All Blacks jerseys together.
Hurricanes and Wellington assistant coach Richard Watt said Savea added a new dimension, and was adamant he was ready.
“He brings something else to a seven role with his sheer athleticism and pace. He’s almost a throwback to the Michael Jones-type seven,” Watt said.
“He’s got some pretty special qualities. He has that sheer pace and he’s pretty brave and doesn’t mind sticking his head in the dark places when he gets there.”
Watt spied Savea at Rongotai College when he was carving up at second five-eighth. And it only took a few minutes with the big boys, in this year’s non-competition match against the Reds, to show Super Rugby held no fears for the teenager.
“I got a hint he was ready when we took him over to Mooloolaba to play the Reds. He ran on at halftime and the first scrum the ball squirted out and he pounced on it and shoved the nine off and ran around the 10 and scored by the posts. That was his first touch for the Hurricanes.”
Well grounded and with an excellent work ethic, Watt said Savea will serve an apprenticeship with fellow No 7s Jack Lam and Karl Lowe.
“The main work-on for him will be his body shape and putting a few more kilos on his frame. He’s about 97kg at the moment and most of the sevens running around at that level are 100-plus.”
Savea scored six tries in a barnstorming first eight NPC games for Wellington but claims he was surprised to be summoned to Hammett’s office a fortnight ago.
He still lives at home and told his supportive parents, Masina and Lina, that night. After Julian arrived back from South Africa, Ardie broke it to his proud brother over a family dinner on Tuesday.
“It’s quite unreal. I didn’t think any of this would happen so fast.”
Savea’s grown up quickly in the past year, after playing sevens for New Zealand and debuting for Wellington. And he takes the responsibility of being a rugby pro seriously.
11 Oct 2012, 00:01 am
@cab-151: you got zero clue about what the tutu’s say.. they say EXACTLY the same thing.. Socrates was the ultimate Tutu.. Know Thyself.. that is EVERYTHING that there is to know.. so get to it apie chimpy orangutan get to the bottom of the universal exercise already.. Know Thyself…
11 Oct 2012, 00:09 am
problem with academics is they are the most stupid ignorant idiots on this planet.. they get taught so much bullshit that they gotta unlearn all that goddamn bullshit again before they EVER get to learn anything that is true..
an intellectual academic idiot is the most stupidest ignorant f’ng idiot to ever been given a brain.. he don’t know the beginning of what the fck he is even doing inhabiting a human body.. yet he reckons he knows it all.. get to the core of the goddamn exercise already.. follow Socrates example and REALIZE you actually know Fck ALL.. and START to learn to Know Thyself.. stupid ignorant falsely educated academic dunce of all dunces…
you better find a tutu fast to teach you everything you know fckall about.. because you going around in abject blind delusion and you ain’t about to find fckall out in the next 3 score and ten years before all the lights go out…
11 Oct 2012, 00:09 am
what dark matter got to do with consciousness? only thing known about it is its affect on the expansion rate. dark energy the bigger one, but energy even more dissolute than matter in archaic tutu thought, so dats probably considered even closer to mind.
they dont say the same thing at all, your mate Big T says something very different from you for example, he says there’s nothing, and if there’s nothing there can be know causation (or in your crazy-speak, karma) and no beings, neither stepped-down, nor stepped-up, no tutupriests, nada – save for mind – in that view the only thing that exists is mind, everything else is false appearance, all objects, and that is what the original big B said before it was all fkd up over millenia of interpretations.
11 Oct 2012, 00:11 am
nothing to learn, not from academics or from tutus, all bollocks.
out.
11 Oct 2012, 00:21 am
who the fck is Big T.. I don’t know any bullshit artist called Big T.. you following the wrong Tutu’s china.. better upgrade or you going down the same plughole they are.
out and about .. follow the yellow brick road.. it surely lead you to the wonderful wizard of Oz. or just follow your schnoz .. schmoz
11 Oct 2012, 00:28 am
those poor fckers confusing the hell out of you and themselves.. pity you went and landed yourself in a rats nest where every stupid ignorant arrogant idiot trying to educate the next about nothing…when he’s the most fck’d up baffled goon on the planet.. you better get out the cookie jar cos its going poof.. sometime soon, and those self aggrandized lostfart loonies are not going to give you one iota of an answer cos they got none..less than none… they the most lost f’ng goons in creation.. even more lost than Darwin, Donald Duck and Dawkins and that is pretty far lost.. believe me.
11 Oct 2012, 06:11 am
@corporal punishment-136:
Yeah Punisher, the respect we have for the Bok and Aussies for that matter comes back to wanting to emulate their strengths. The Boks brutal confrontational style in the forwards and the Aussies ability to engage the defensive line and probe the weaknesses of the opposition.
One thing though the 96 team did have the advantage of Walter Little in at second five who had a very good tactical boot on him. Also John Preston on the bench gave the side excellent cover at half and first five.
11 Oct 2012, 06:34 am
No cause to worry. The EP Kinks couldn’t beat an egg in the REAL first division.
11 Oct 2012, 06:46 am
@TheTackler-162:
Hi Tackler
Tell us more about your self. You seem to be a very lonely fellow.
11 Oct 2012, 06:58 am
@TheTackler-162: yeag whatever tackler how many ITM Cup Championship = 2nd division – teams have beaten teams in the ITM Premiership = 1st division?
why not just call them what they are tickles?
11 Oct 2012, 07:32 am
Richie Makou se boek kom een van die dae uit,as jy dit soek by n boekwinkel kyk net aan die verkeerde kant van die rak.
11 Oct 2012, 07:40 am
@Te Rangatira-161:
That’s where we fall down. Our coaches like Jake and HM believe that we have to perpetuate a specific Springbok “brand” of rugby based on our traditional strengths instead of our players current strengths.
11 Oct 2012, 07:42 am
@Fern-165: Good one!!!
11 Oct 2012, 07:44 am
Gospet truth BB.
I see Charl handed tiger and rory their heads in the golf at turkey.
11 Oct 2012, 09:00 am
Saru has a simple, but not most effective, way to handle the overplaying of the Boks at the business end of the CC. The CC finals should be played on the same weekend as the last two games of the RC or the first two games of our November tour. If they choose the last option The EP Kings and another small union can be brought in again and teams will not pick the Boks as they will probably not be in a promotion relegation battle and it is pointless to pick your Boks for a week or two if they are not going to be available for the finals.
11 Oct 2012, 09:18 am
@fitz1ella-160: Sjoe, ek dink die babelas is besonders erg vanoggend.
11 Oct 2012, 09:23 am
oh but for a day
either this or that way
how the world turns….
wp fighting to avoid facing the kings…. love it….
11 Oct 2012, 09:23 am
How on earth did South African rugby get so vrot so quickly?
The Sharks could field a team of non Boks and still win…why can’t Province and the Bulls?
It’s not like there is a shortage of talent.
11 Oct 2012, 10:08 am
Burger Update, (due to return at 2nd week of 2013 Super Rugby)
Cape Town – Rocked by economic woe, soaring fuel costs, political power scrambles and corruption, strike upheaval and a seemingly never-ending cycle of crime, South Africa could do with some good news.So here’s a wee bit of relief from the general gloom: Schalk Burger, one of the country’s most iconic sporting sons, is on the comeback trail … and this time, touch wood, it’s for real.It won’t necessarily lift the tottering rand but, all going well, Sport24 can exclusively reveal that the blond dynamo of loose forward play is freshly earmarked to return to first-class rugby on the second weekend of Super Rugby 2013 activity for the Stormers, the SA conference winners earlier this year and losing semi-finalists.
Western Province and Stormers head coach Allister Coetzee told us on Wednesday: “I can give you a positive update: Schalk saw the specialist last week and he was very pleased with where the knee is at right now.“So much so that as from next week (the player) can start the rehab programme – Schalk is really walking actively on the knee again, without a brace. He will thus be able to step up things like cycling, swimming and so on.“From Schalk’s own perspective, he is so excited there is no (further) pain at the moment … yes, you could say he’s out of the dark room.“Knowing Schalk, he’s not simply trying to be optimistic, either; he’s an honest and upfront bloke in terms of that. He’s been out for months … you would think he knows when to be optimistic or to feel differently.”Burger, who damaged left knee ligaments in an awkward tackle against the Hurricanes at Newlands back in late February, has had a deflating few weeks after getting back into some conditioning work with the Stormers squad around the mid-year mark, only for the injury to respond poorly to initial rehab and effectively take him back to square one.That setback even sparked premature – but perhaps understandable – reports at the time that his illustrious career might be in jeopardy.Coetzee said he was “absolutely confident” Burger was on track to begin the next Super Rugby campaign.“If he should miss out on something (early on) … maybe one game in February. But we do expect a full-on kind of return to training during December; we will go about his return conservatively on the knee front but the other parts of his body will still be drilled – don’t you worry about that!“Honestly, he is so looking forward to next year. He has been seriously frustrated simply watching the other players out there.”Under scheduled circumstances, then, Burger is earmarked to miss the Stormers’ tough opener, a Loftus derby against old foes the Bulls on February 22, but then make his keenly-anticipated return against the Sharks at Mr Price Kings Park on March 2.His first game back before the Newlands faithful, all going well, would be the third fixture of the Stormers’ programme – another demanding one against defending champions the Chiefs on March 9.Coetzee agreed that there had been some unintentional blessings in Burger’s sidelining, even if it has been for longer than previously anticipated.“We know that (All
Blacks captain and a great Burger rival) Richie McCaw is to have a six-month sabbatical from rugby in the first part of next year … this has really been Schalk’s own sabbatical, and perhaps much-needed in many respects.”Although it may seem to many people that the famously combative Burger has been around first-class rugby forever, he is actually almost two years younger than McCaw at 29 and presumably has plenty left to offer the game if the knee does, indeed, repair properly.Burger has earned 68 Springbok caps since 2003 and was considered among the favourites to assume the captaincy when Heyneke Meyer took over as national coach earlier this year, only for long-time Stormers team-mate Jean de Villiers to grab the reins in his absence.De Villiers also smartly steered the Super Rugby ship for the franchise after Burger’s mishap early in the campaign.Coetzee did not commit to who his Stormers captain would be in the new year – presumably he will first want assurance that Burger is genuinely ready for consistent activity again.“He and Jean are fantastic leaders and we’ve also had captaincy from a younger guy like Deon Fourie and also Duane (Vermeulen) … so with leadership I’ve got no problem at all. But definitely Schalk will be in the mix.”
11 Oct 2012, 10:10 am
@Horings-170: janee – Socrates het geweet hy weet fokkol. Ons weet almal ou Snoekie weet fokkol..
11 Oct 2012, 10:14 am
@Guns-173:
errr ok.. i’ve seen that guy on tv recently and i dont know if it was the studio camera angle or the lighting but i could swear he had a triple chin and two sets of cheeks.
lots of work ahead for him then.
11 Oct 2012, 10:21 am
Looks like Taute has jointed the Stormers!!!
11 Oct 2012, 10:30 am
@Gumboots-176:
another cc wunderkind for wp then.
make sure he stays out of the international super rugby fixtures.
11 Oct 2012, 10:33 am
Ja last time I saw of him he was still on crutches.. Plenty of time between now and then, in 3/4months u would expect a professional athlete to get back into condition, it all comes down to the knee though and is not something that should be rushed, the should give him longer if needed would be silly to rush him back in.
11 Oct 2012, 10:35 am
Looks like Janjies will follow him. Question is do we want Janjies becoming a defensive orientated player? If he does go to Weepee they need to keep emphasis on his attacking game, the loosies can play defence.
11 Oct 2012, 10:37 am
well done stormers on signed taute.
i predict tautes inclusion ahead of JdJ in future bok teams will bring far less whining out of the cape going forward.
11 Oct 2012, 10:40 am
signing taute.
madame zingara still has my brain and a bit of my name is probably being swept off the floor right now
11 Oct 2012, 10:43 am
Keo seems to be slacking off. Lets get some new info.
11 Oct 2012, 10:50 am
Taute got a good schooling by Nonu and Smith.
11 Oct 2012, 10:52 am
@Guns-173: “Schalk Burger, one of the country’s most iconic sporting sons, is on the comeback trail … ”
Good guy and good player….but iconic…..only in Cape town
11 Oct 2012, 10:54 am
Ranger you’ll be supporting the black tide next week in Brisbane, when we thump them you should go back to 2nd in the rankings.
Has Ritchie’s book sold out yet in the republic?
11 Oct 2012, 10:57 am
So the Stormer Suits finally seem to have got something right ….
Backline looks far better now…and some decent depth…
15 Taute [ according to Cape Times this is where AC will use him ]
14 Aplon
13 JDJ
12 JDV
11 Habana
10 Jantjes
9 Duvenhage
depth
Schreuder….Brache…Joe P…G VD Heever….Allende…Groom…P Grant…
Now for AC to just embrace a more expansive game plan…
11 Oct 2012, 11:01 am
At its most recent meeting in Johannesburg last week, the panel reconfirmed its commitment to the “Big Five” key priorities:
• All aspects of the tackle with particular emphasis to be placed on the tackler releasing the tackled player and rolling away and arriving players staying on their feet.
• Offside at the breakdown.
• Offside from kicks.
• All aspects of the scrum, particularly the engagement process and front-row binding.
• All aspects of the maul, particularly what constitutes legal maul defences.
Sitting on the IRB Match Official Selection Committee were John Jeffrey (chairperson), Tappe Henning, Lyndon Bray (both SANZAR), Donal Courtney, Clayton Thomas (both Six Nations) and Joel Jutge (IRB Referee Manager). The panel meets four times per year with all performances reviewed as part of the next round of international selections.
11 Oct 2012, 11:02 am
tut tut tut
if only….
11 Oct 2012, 11:03 am
@grant10-186: LOL hiyas Grant, don’t forget Jantjes has not been confirmed at the Stormers yet, or the Sharks for that matter
11 Oct 2012, 11:03 am
@grant10-186: Howzit Grant. Centre combo would still worry me and I would seriously look at investing in a no 9.
11 Oct 2012, 11:05 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-187: 90% of that is Richies fault……
11 Oct 2012, 11:05 am
@grant10-186: But thats a very good backline, lets hope for your sakes that AC actually has them running with the ball and not having them be only defensive brick walls lol
I think Cilliers will help the WP scrum a bit as thats been one very weak area. Well Rhodes too
11 Oct 2012, 11:07 am
To be fair Roberto has Habana ever been onside when chasing a kick?
11 Oct 2012, 11:09 am
# 189
His dad confirmed to Stephen Nell.Its done.You can get Peter Grant back now, please come and fetch him asap.
11 Oct 2012, 11:12 am
@Robzim-194: No thanks, would rather use Fred Zeilinga from our under 21′s, Kids a natural 10 with a good boot.
Also our under 189 Capt is Robert Du Preez jnr, very good 10, strong big 10
11 Oct 2012, 11:12 am
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE-191:
disgusting kiwis
11 Oct 2012, 11:12 am
@sharks_lover-195: under19 that is
11 Oct 2012, 11:16 am
i didnt have time to do the second half kiwi infringement review of the match but i can recall a number of instances in which all five of these ‘key priorities’ were commited in the nz red zone and absolutely nothing came of it.
this well after the ‘official team warning’ given to that classless scumbag captain.
a few of them should have been penalty tries or yellow/reds at the least.
11 Oct 2012, 11:19 am
#195
I heard about Fred, never saw him play. Grant will most likely still have a role to play for the Stormers, maybe as a place-kicking coach lol
11 Oct 2012, 11:23 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-198:
Get ypourself to a Shrink bakkies,
There is still time.
I do not wish to read about going berserk in a mall with an automatic paint gun.
11 Oct 2012, 11:26 am
@cane-200:
Oooops.
That should read………………………………….”I do not wish to read about YOU going berserk ………”
(I had an itchy trigger finger).
11 Oct 2012, 11:47 am
@cane-201: LOL
Shooting pink and blue ‘ paint bullets ‘
11 Oct 2012, 11:51 am
@cane-201:
@grant10-202:
hehe
chops of a feather always flock together..
11 Oct 2012, 11:56 am
if i was to ever suffer the misfortune of going postal i would target the beaches of camps bay (specifically looking for guys with beer boeps and skinny legs in bright yellow budgie smugglers) or failing that the cape all black supporters official clubhouse or the bar they frequent…
11 Oct 2012, 11:58 am
@grant10-202:
I’m sure bakkies looks very masculine in his pink lace panties, hand on his weapon.
11 Oct 2012, 12:01 pm
‘Flanked by a visibly exhausted De Villiers’
I’m actually concerned about Jean and have been for a while. I get the sense that he is more mentally fatigued than anything else.
Jean is an unusually talented fellow that needs to be unshackled; rock-hard place scenario I guess. He has been promoted to skipper but it seems more a burden than a joy, at least from where I’m sitting…
11 Oct 2012, 12:01 pm
@cane-205: LOL
Bakkies stalking the Camps Bay and Clifton beaches….paint gun in hand…classic…
11 Oct 2012, 12:02 pm
Some good news…
Nizaam Carr came through his first on field session with flying colors this morning…
11 Oct 2012, 12:05 pm
@rangerman-180: Taute will not lift JDJ at centre, Taute is there to replace the dis-interested Pietersen at fullback.
11 Oct 2012, 12:06 pm
11 Oct 2012, 12:07 pm
@grant10-208:
that’s what your celebrating lately..?..
11 Oct 2012, 12:09 pm
@NZINCHINA-183: ” Taute got a good schooling by Nonu and Smith.”, thats an understatement if ever there was one, Taute got a right-royal-rogering from the AB’s, but the fact that your average Bok fans aren’t up in arms goes to show how rugby is viewed in this country and why we are so behind the AB’s
11 Oct 2012, 12:11 pm
never thought WP was a great place for flyhalfs, well not in my lifetime anyway.
Hell, even joel stransky played his best rugby everywhere else except newlands.
a very logical choice by jantjies but this might be one of those occassions where logic does not apply.
some very decent looking rugby squads next season, expect to see the big SA sides beating each other up home and away and the antipodeans hovering like hyenas there to pick up the scraps the following weekend.
kak format
11 Oct 2012, 12:12 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-211: Carr is a good oke….big future imo….
11 Oct 2012, 12:14 pm
@XhosaKid-212:
look pal…nobody except you rates Dejong.
sorry, get over it.
maybe he should go play in France? If anyone would make him an offer.
oh,the irony of it all….
11 Oct 2012, 12:16 pm
@grant10-214:
yeah i’m just kidding
good luck to him
11 Oct 2012, 12:19 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-215: JDJ is class….
Taute will play at 15 for Stormers….
Stormers best backline performances were when JDJ and J Fourie were at 12 and 13….
This year the backs looked best with JDJ at 12 and Habana at 13….
imo
11 Oct 2012, 12:19 pm
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE-184: I dunno Kwagga, Burger has been a world class player for a number of years. When you think Springbok rugby you think of players such as Habana, Burger, Smit and Matfield. I don’t think iconic is an inaccurate description.
11 Oct 2012, 12:19 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-215: Well idiots like you get proven wrong time and time again, but you keep coming for more. JDJ’s record speaks for itself at Bok level, just like Taute’s introduction at Bok Level speak for itself, he got molested!!!, now compare Taute’s molestation against JDJ’s debut against the BIGGEST centre in international rugby Jamie Roberts away from home noggal.
You know fokkol about rugby, which is a real shame considering its the only sport you purport to know. It must real k@k being you.
11 Oct 2012, 12:23 pm
@grant10-217: Don’t bother talking rugby with the likes of Brigadier, they are bigoted idiots who are no different to the ones I encounter when I go drinking in my local township tavern. The later bigots reckon Andile Jali is better than Steven Pienaar, regardless of evidence which shows them up.
11 Oct 2012, 12:39 pm
@XhosaKid-219:
predictable as ever. Dejong cant pass, thats a real issue for a center.
that is not my fault by the way. Wayne Julies and solly tybilka’s records for the boks also speak for themselves at bok level. They are nonetheless no devilliers or skalk burger.
@grant10-217:
which is not saying much as the stormers couldn’t get 1 4try bonus point win together.
11 Oct 2012, 12:46 pm
@XhosaKid-220:
xhosakid, I know you think you have the sense of entitlement to rugby knowlege and itellectual opinion…but that is far from the truth.
what you do have without a doubt, is a very small brain, splinterdick of a willey and 2 lopsided shoulders due to the tree you carry on the one.
unfortunately….not every oke will fall over themselves about a nonwhite rugby player or even a white player for that matter.
11 Oct 2012, 12:46 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-221: JDJ is a very good 13….or 12…
Defensively 1 of the best around……and deserves to play ahead of JDV at 13 for Boks imo.
In fact a midfield combo of F Steyn and JDJ may be a very exciting 1….
You have some strange resentment to JDJ for some reason?
11 Oct 2012, 12:56 pm
@grant10-223:
i just don’t think he is particularly very good which is not to say that he is bad.
but that is just my opinion, and you can use it or not.
and what does my opinion count for anyway, I would have had Rob Eberson or Tim Whitehead playing 13 for the boks.
So there you go, that’s why I am not the coach.
But youngsters can improve their game so there is no reason why jdj can’t get better and change perceptions the way other players do every season.
11 Oct 2012, 13:06 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-224:
for the record I like seeing a ball playing intelligent player at 13 in my ideal senario. Every SA supporter always hammers our 12′s for being crashball specialists but in all reality our 13′s are far worse. I’ll even include Jaque Fourie in this example as well, for all his strenghs I cannot remember him making a pass. Think back to his try in the 2nd test at loftus against the british lions. Had the roles been reversed with him having to make the quick pass to the player outside him…..do you think he would have made it? I think not, he would have stepped inside and killed the opportunity. Marius Joubert before him also never passed the ball. It’s possibly an insight into why our inside backs always throw long passes to the outside skipping the 13…….they just dont trust the 13 to make the simple pass or draw the man and pass.
11 Oct 2012, 13:26 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-224: So JDJ must change self-induced misconceptions from bigots like you, whereas guys like Taute ( White Afrikaners) must prove that they are shyyt centres before getting the chop?, why the double standards?, or you so up the assss that you don’t even realize the double standards you have just set.
11 Oct 2012, 13:33 pm
@Robzim-199: LOL Rob, Fred is an excellent 10, has been very good this year for our under21′s
11 Oct 2012, 13:35 pm
@grant10-223: watch Francois Steyn and Jordaan as a combo next year, with Lambie at 10 i think some exciting times ahead, also the new Scrummy Reinach is showing class of note
11 Oct 2012, 13:40 pm
WP with the new signed players would surely be a far stronger side Grant, I am not sure i would agree with your earlier prediction that the Sharks would be the South African favourites next year.
I just did an article on RT and took a look at the player depth and situation for next year, and the player situation is much the same as this year accept for a few youngsters comming through.
But with youngsters the problem is even though they are super talented they lack experience which breaks down on consistency
11 Oct 2012, 13:44 pm
@XhosaKid-226:
whatever dude, one can only wonder how you take my opinion on jdj as an opinion on taute.
for the record, I do not have an opinion on taute,I have not seen that much of him, he was a bolter to start off with who did okay in his first test and got owed in his second. If that is the trend, doubt he’ll see many more games so there is nothing to worry about really, is there?
11 Oct 2012, 13:48 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-230:
oh, and before you question why taute leapfrogged jdj.
errm, maybe you should apply that selfsame logic to how jdj earned his first cap…or even worse…Earl “Can’t get a contract can’t hold a job” Rose.
it is the coaches perogative to rate who he chooses.
11 Oct 2012, 13:53 pm
Brig to be fair not that many of your backs can pass.
11 Oct 2012, 13:55 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-230: He’s just feeding the chips on his shoulders. Happens all the time. Someone mentions Taute and he starts blabbering about De Jongh, and vice versa. It’s completely involuntary – he can’t control it at all.
11 Oct 2012, 14:02 pm
@NZINCHINA-232:
it’s true, we have a few…but they never feature nationally.
even look at that young Rhule kid coming through with the cheetahs. Played 13 against the bulls, got plenty of ball has plenty of pace with a great step and is elusive. Can’t remember him passing once, same for mapoe playing at 13. Has everything except the pass.Almost all of our 13′s really.
Maybe describing the issue as “a pass” is not entirely correct.
possibly a better description of our 13′s would be “the lack of desire to keep the ball alive and off the floor unless it is the very last option”. The setting up of the ruck should be the 13′s ( in my opinion) very last option in his playbook.
11 Oct 2012, 14:02 pm
@katman-233: aint that a fact, and if you dont agree with him ur a biggot and racist and blah blah farking Blah, BUt he aint alone. he got a few chums that are the same in here,
11 Oct 2012, 14:06 pm
Some ganging-up going on here I see
11 Oct 2012, 14:07 pm
Brig so true that’s why with JDV there nothing much is going to happen in the Bokke back department, is this not ringing alarm bells in SA rugby or are people still clinging to the belief that the Bokke forwards will demolish everything in front of them?
11 Oct 2012, 14:08 pm
@Dawn-236: You a shop steward?
11 Oct 2012, 14:11 pm
@katman-238:
Natuurlik
11 Oct 2012, 14:12 pm
@NZINCHINA-237:
China
At your casa in China do you have a shrine to the All Blacks?
11 Oct 2012, 14:17 pm
Stormers also be in the running SL…..but the draw is a tough 1 and I do feel the Sharks brand of rugby is far superior…..maybe Taute and Jantjes will bring some Mitchell / Spencer ideas to the CT party……I hope so….
Also Stormers lack the fetcher…..and will need to get the crocked fit and well….
Also glad with the Cilliers and Rhodes acquisitions….
Hope springs eternal….
11 Oct 2012, 14:29 pm
Hello Dawn, no.
11 Oct 2012, 14:43 pm
@NZINCHINA-242:
I’m very surprised
11 Oct 2012, 14:44 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-234:
I believe that setting up a ruck should be the last option of all the backline players.
11 Oct 2012, 14:50 pm
Why is that?
11 Oct 2012, 14:52 pm
@Dawn-240:
yes,
but he stuck it right up his arse and cant get it out again.
11 Oct 2012, 15:02 pm
Hello Bakkies, good to see you’ve calmed down it was touch and go there for a while. No shrine but I’m looking forward to Ritchie’s men breaking the world record that would be very special.The RC was not that challenging this year but I’m sure next year it will be more competitive, have you read Ritchie’s book yet?
11 Oct 2012, 15:11 pm
groete, china
you must be farking with me, right? reechee macaw’s book..?.. i quite literally would stick an ab shrine up my own arse before i read a book by any kiwi rugby person… let alone one by that filthy scumbag.
it can’t be selling very well, even in nz..?.. because it certainly is not doing the rounds or on anyone’s lips.
11 Oct 2012, 15:17 pm
@NZINCHINA-247:
Give him a chance. He hasn’t finished “50 Shades of Grey, yet.
11 Oct 2012, 15:27 pm
Bakkies it’s flying out the door as you’d expect, some very interesting stuff in there re Deans etc.
David he he
11 Oct 2012, 21:39 pm
The best defender in the business in SA, a sidestep that will make Danie Gerber proud (has scored some scintillating tries recently that NO other SA centre could have – the one against the Waratahs at Newlands 2 years ago being only one example). A real live wire and busy player. The modern day Mannetjies Roux. That is Juan de Jongh for you!
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