Relegation threat forces Coetzee’s hand
10 Oct 2012
The possibility of WP dropping out of the Currie Cup Premier Division has contributed to the decision to push fatigued Springboks to play this Saturday.
Allister Coetzee was the Bok assistant coach between 2004 and 2007 before he linked up with the Stormers and Western Province in 2008. He is well aware of the manner in which rugby is administrated in South Africa, having been involved with the Boks and a provincial union, and knows how the contracting system is such that the provinces dictate how much rugby the Boks play over the course of a season.
On Wednesday, Coetzee explained his decision to include all seven returning Springboks in the starting line-up for the final Currie Cup league match against the Cheetahs.
Flanked by a visibly exhausted Jean de Villiers, Coetzee admitted that it was a not an ideal situation if one looked at it from a Bok perspective, but as a coach of a province that pays the players’ salaries, his hands were tied.
‘It’s the way the contracts work in this country, the players belong to the province,’ said Coetzee. ‘Unless there is a change to the structure, that is the way it’s going to be.’
WP are currently in third place on the Currie Cup log, but if they lose this weekend and the other two results go against them, they could finish in last position.
This would see them playing a promotion-relegation series against the Eastern Province Kings to determine who will feature in the 2013 Currie Cup.
It is therefore in WP’s interest to play all of their available Boks, no matter their state of fatigue. If there wasn’t such a risk of dropping down to the First Division, Coetzee may have given a few of the top players a much needed break.
‘If you look at what we are all facing, the reality of being relegated, well you have to have your Boks at your disposal,’ he said.
‘That’s what unions are going through right now, nobody wants to get relegated. If we were different position on the log, then maybe I wouldn’t have played all the Boks. Now we have to play our best team.’
It was thought at the beginning of the season that the Boks would be excused from the Currie Cup given their extensive workload in the Super Rugby competition and heavy Test schedule. But De Villiers suggested last week that the Boks would return for domestic duty at the conclusion of the Rugby Championship, and when he said it, you got the feeling that he wasn’t happy about it.
Coetzee confirmed on Wednesday that the thought process of using the Boks in the Currie Cup had changed recently because of the prospect of relegation.
Indeed, it is not only WP who have loaded their team with Boks. The Bulls have stacked their team with returning Boks and it’s likely that the Sharks will do the same when they name their side later in the week.
De Villiers is currently nursing a hamstring injury and will only train at WP’s captain’s run on Friday. It is a situation that highlights the faults of the South African system, and WP can’t be blamed for working within the given parameters.
If the South African system was similar to that of New Zealand, a country that centrally-contracts their players so that they are managed accordingly, they wouldn’t be in a position where a fatigue-related injury is a probability rather than a possibility.
De Villiers said that he wasn’t happy with the situation and, more damningly, suggested it wasn’t likely to change. It’s the rugby player’s lot in South Africa to simply get on with it.
‘It’s not really relevant what the players feel, it’s a decision that the administrators need to make,’ he said. ‘When you are needed, you need to step up. As long as the decision lies with the unions, it doesn’t matter what we as players feel.
‘We might gain more from something like central-contracting,’ admitted De Villiers. ‘Maybe we need to sit down and come up with a model that works for everyone.’
By Jon Cardinelli
251 Comments
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10 Oct 2012, 16:12 pm
@Transformation-50: Seeing Grant’s name there at the top always compels me to add a qualifier. Have you ever seen him take a kick from further than 40m? Even 40m is considered a monster kick for him.
When you stand 3 feet from the dart board, it’s not hard to rack up 180.
10 Oct 2012, 16:12 pm
@katman-51:
10 Oct 2012, 16:16 pm
@katman-51: bwaahaaaa…
10 Oct 2012, 16:23 pm
@katman-51: :mrgree: hahaha i know…
who helped grant with the over 40m kicks last year in the Stormers team, i forget?
10 Oct 2012, 16:28 pm
@katman-51:
Is it just about distance or is it also about accuracy and kicking under pressure as well.
Earlier this year Stormers beat both The Sharks and The Bulls because Grant kicked penalties over from close to the touch line in the last few minutes of the match.
10 Oct 2012, 16:29 pm
@katman-51:
Lets look at it from anoher angle.
If you are only allowed to have one kicker who has to take all the kicks (everything else equals) who would you select on current goalkicking form?
1. Grant
2. Morne
3. Sias
4. Lambie
5 Jantjes
10 Oct 2012, 16:30 pm
Goosen have the ability to kick a 60m penalty but he couldn’t land a 30m penalty in line with the poles.
What does it say about his kicking?
10 Oct 2012, 16:31 pm
Goosen has..
10 Oct 2012, 16:42 pm
@Robzim-56: That angle has another angle, you see. Because “all the kicks” is defined by who your kicker is. If I said Peter Grant, I’d probably go for touch with anything beyond the 10 yard line. Whereas if Elton were my kicker, anything between the 10 yard and half way would still warrant a crack at goal. So let’s first define what constitutes “all kicks” before we decide.
10 Oct 2012, 16:46 pm
@nama1-57: All it says is that he was nervous. And that his wonky ankle was perhaps playing on his mind. I bet you a hundred Vermillion dollars he’d put a 30m straight kick over at least 4 out of 5 times.
10 Oct 2012, 16:52 pm
@katman-60:
Precisely, there is more to kicking than just being able to kick a 50m-60m long penalty.
In the last minute of the match, your team is 2 points behind, you have a penalty 35m from the goal line, 10m from touch. Who is your man: Grant, Jantjies, Lambie, Goosen, Morne, Fransie?
10 Oct 2012, 16:58 pm
“Protector fingers Malema on tenders”
Sounds a bit dodgy.
10 Oct 2012, 17:03 pm
@nama1-61: are you suggesting that francois steyn who kicks them from 60m is a less competent kicker than say peter grant whose limit is 35m?
10 Oct 2012, 17:07 pm
@nama1-61: For me that situation is a toss up between Jantjes and Grant. But what if it’s the same situation, no time left on the clock, but the penalty is 45m out? Now add someone like Jantjes or Goosen’s all round running and distribution skills and that toss up gets tossed right out the window.
10 Oct 2012, 17:09 pm
@katman-64: and lambie?
10 Oct 2012, 17:09 pm
@Sharksgirl-41: Rain has been hectic, love it, cept it makes for a lot more work for me.
My friends house has a little dam and the water is nearly reaching her deck, nice for the Giraffe though, they don’t have to bend so far down the bank on the other side to drink.
10 Oct 2012, 17:11 pm
@Puma-44: Sort it out. Im getting married in your neck of the woods next week Saturday.
10 Oct 2012, 17:12 pm
@Transformation-65: A distant third.
10 Oct 2012, 17:16 pm
@Robzim-56: current goalkicking form… I don’t think anyone knows what Lambie’s current form is. He’s maybe had 5 pots in the last 5/6 weeks.
10 Oct 2012, 17:17 pm
@shooter-69: exactly
10 Oct 2012, 17:19 pm
the only one with no (kicking) form is Morne.
10 Oct 2012, 17:19 pm
I thought elton showed huge temperment with the way he kicked his goals last weekend.
But in all honesty, if all the mentioned players were on form and at their best…morne is light years ahead when it comes to kicking
10 Oct 2012, 17:20 pm
@Transformation-63:
Yes.
What is his success rate from 60m? Overall?
Rather have a kicker who can bang them over from 35-40m at 85% success rate. If he has the BMT to kick them over under huge pressure (to win a match from the side lines) even better.
10 Oct 2012, 17:21 pm
which is saying – revert back to the standard question – who is thebestest kicker? = Morne
10 Oct 2012, 17:23 pm
67…hey congrats must say though getting married in a trailor at the shark tank parking lot wouldnt be my choice of venue but maybe i am just old fashioned?
10 Oct 2012, 17:25 pm
@katman-64:
Mmmmm…I hear you.
I guess your 50m kicker’s chance of success is probably the same as my accurate albeit limited in range kicker.
Your kicker’s direction may be off and my kicker may be short.
10 Oct 2012, 17:26 pm
@nama1-73: Some fundi can maybe design an app for that. like a handicap factored point duckworth distance accuracy kickometer. homeground/ distance/ ratio/ altitude… you get the drift. then we shall see.
10 Oct 2012, 17:26 pm
@Taahirah-67:
Sterkte.
@Brigadier Van Zyl-75:
10 Oct 2012, 17:27 pm
Good side for sat but we needed to rest JDV, the guys getting over played, will prob break down next year during the Super 15 comp.
Is Brache and JDJ seriously not good enough to play as a combo against the Cheetahs??? come on wheres the faith in the player?? I think this combo would be more exciting.
DeAllende is going to be very good, only 20 years old and I’d like to c him get some game time in the Super 15 next year, looks like he could be a beast at centre.
I wouldve started Louis at 9 rather than Groom, grooms got alot of fight but I think Louis has more pedigree as a scrummie.
Deon Carstens is a better option on the bench, can play both sides. Brok cant even dominate at 3, thought by this time that he’d be seriously good. He’s 27 and has plenty caps but still doesnt kill oaks at scrum time?? Good thing pat is coming
abt Elstadt, he’s injured and is a quality player, had a great season in 2011 as a number 4 lock.
Tiaan and JDJ will be hungry to play, they havent played much rugby lately. Hopefully JDJ can show us some of wat he used to do.
Even if Province were sittin in a better position, I think he’d still play most of them.
He over plays guys during Super 15, Look at a guy like JDV,Bekker, even the young Kitsie has been played into the ground.
10 Oct 2012, 17:27 pm
@shooter-77: factor in difference of score at the time of the kick too – and while we’re getting factored – the moment/ time in the game too.
10 Oct 2012, 17:29 pm
i guess a formula, instead of an app would do it. and you don’t need a fundi.
10 Oct 2012, 17:32 pm
@shooter-77:
Would be interesting.
Another interesting point re kickers,…..the great goal kickers have all been players with a limited range, say about 40m.
Naas Botha, Olly Campbell, Grant Fox, Joel stransky, Dan Carter even Johnny Wilkinson did not take kicks from his half way line, I think.
10 Oct 2012, 17:35 pm
@Fleckie-79:
Schreuder pissed me off when he kicked the ball away in the 78th minute of the semi final in the S15.
We need to groom Groom (pun intended) to be the no. 1 SH for the S15 next year.
10 Oct 2012, 18:22 pm
@nama1-83: do you get MetroFm where you live?
Marawa has just confirmed a part deux of the general look at SA Rugby & suggested that “those whose feathers were ruffled yesterday get in touch with his producer” so as to be able to present their views too.
it’s getting warm…
10 Oct 2012, 18:31 pm
@Transformation-84:
Unfortunately not.
about time somebody speaks out.
10 Oct 2012, 19:00 pm
@nama1-85: plus you know he rubs shoulders with some of the people mametsa fingered at Supersport, on a daily basis…
can’t wait for next week.
10 Oct 2012, 19:01 pm
Yay Shooter
Why don’t you design it
10 Oct 2012, 19:10 pm
@Transformation-86:
Keep me in the loop about new developments, please.
10 Oct 2012, 19:15 pm
It seems Jantjies will now only announce his decision next week.
Johannesburg – Springbok flyhalf Elton Jantjies will decide his future by next week if all goes well, according to the supersport.com website.
Jantjies agent, James Adams, said he met with the Jantjies family on Tuesday night, and took instructions as to which province to conclude negotiations with.
The flyhalf has been linked to the Kings, Bulls, Sharks and Stormers, with the latter the most viable option after they put a big money offer on the table for his services.
“We met on Tuesday to receive instructions. The decision was made as to which union we would enter into negotiations with. The move will only be finalised at the end of the week,” Adams said via sms.
10 Oct 2012, 19:19 pm
How we continue to **** ourselves over in rugby remains one of the biggest mysteries and biggest jokes for me.
10 Oct 2012, 19:21 pm
I put R1000 on the fact that Eben Etzebeth will break down with injury during Super Rugby next year.
10 Oct 2012, 19:25 pm
I said earlier that people with silly comments re Lambie should get to know the facts first.
Well here Plumtree says exactly that aboput people and their short memories.
John Plumtree © Gallo Images
‘Comebacks and kittens’ – Nick Koster
Lambie is our first-choice 10 – Plumtree
——————————————————————————–
by Gavin Rich 10 October 2012, 16:03
The selection of Patrick Lambie at flyhalf for the Sharks team to play against Griquas on Friday should give Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer an interesting extra No 10 option for the end-of-year tour.
However, Sharks coach John Plumtree has stressed that while Lambie hasn’t played at pivot for his team for a while, there is not really anything new about the selection.
Indeed, Lambie has been the first-choice flyhalf for the Sharks all year, and was only moved to fullback after he had been out with injury.
“People have short memories and I suppose with so much rugby being played its understandable, but Pat was actually our first-choice flyhalf for the first half of Super Rugby,” said Plumtree.
“We started off with Pat at flyhalf and you will recall that at the time Frederic Michalak either played off the bench or at scrumhalf.
“It was only after Pat got injured that we moved Freddie into No 10. Once Freddie started playing well it was difficult to change, but even then, Pat was out most of the time with injury.
“He broke his jaw then had a few other injuries that kept him off the playing field. The last game he played for us was at No 15, and that was the Super Rugby final. But he had been out for a while and Freddie had been playing well so we couldn’t really choose him at flyhalf for that game.”
With Lambie playing flyhalf again, Meyer now has three choices at No 10, now that Johan Goosen has been ruled out for the rest of the season with injury: Elton Jantjies, Morne Steyn and Lambie.
The latter was Steyn’s understudy on the 2010 overseas tour and had it not been for the unexpected loss to Scotland, the then coach Peter de Villiers may well have selected Lambie at flyhalf for the test against England at Twickenham.
Instead, because of the defeat, the Boks were forced into a backs-to-the-wall reactive mindset and the conservative option, with Steyn boasting more experience, was favoured.
It was understood that the reason Meyer never considered Lambie as a flyhalf was because he hadn’t played there for the Sharks this year, so this is the Natalian’s chance to show that he is also an option at No 10.
It was as a flyhalf for the Sharks in the 2010 Currie Cup season that Lambie made his first really big statement at first-class level in South Africa, and his match-winning performance against Western Province in the Durban final marked him as a player of great potential.
However, he wasn’t at his best in the 2011 Super Rugby season when he played flyhalf and his best game was probably the one he played from fullback when Michalak took up pivot in the decisive final league game against the Bulls at Loftus which the Sharks unexpectedly won to leapfrog the Pretoria team into the play-offs.
Unlike WP coach Allister Coetzee, Plumtree is phasing his Boks back into Currie Cup action, and has not selected a raft of first-choice Boks for this week’s final league game against Griquas.
There again, the Sharks and the Lions are the only teams not facing the prospect of a possible relegation battle, so perhaps that is understandable.
Aside from Lambie, no other member of the current Bok 22 was into the starting team.
Jannie du Plessis and Marcell Coetzee were chosen on the bench while first-choice Bok wing JP Pietersen, in such fine form before injury cut his season short, will continue his comeback in the No 11 jersey.
Lwazi Mvovo and Craig Burden, two players in the wider Bok group of 30, will also play off the bench at Mr Price Kings Park.
While it is probably true that the Sharks can afford to be a bit under-strength at home to Griquas and thus rest the star players for the play-offs, it might also be that Plumtree has learned his lesson from last year, when the Sharks selected their Boks for the Currie Cup final but then lost to a Lions team that benefited from greater continuity in selection.
THE SHARKS: Louis Ludik, Odwa Ndungane, Paul Jordaan, Tim Whitehead, JP Pietersen, Patrick Lambie, Cobus Reinach, Keegan Daniel (captain), Jean Deysel, Jacques Botes, Anton Bresler, Jandre Marais, Wiehahn Herbst, Kyle Cooper, Dale Chadwick.
Replacements: Craig Burden, Jannie du Plessis, Peet Marais, Marcell Coetzee, Charl McLeod, Meyer Bosman, Lwazi Mvovo.
10 Oct 2012, 19:30 pm
Shark Lover to Lambie: “who’s your daddy”
Puma to Lambie : “I am your father”
10 Oct 2012, 19:34 pm
@PissAnt-91: This is true PA
10 Oct 2012, 19:35 pm
@Dawn-93:
ok that was funny
10 Oct 2012, 19:37 pm
@PissAnt-90: I am glad Plum is resting most of the Sharks Boks, it’s been a very long season, woulda thought he would have rested Jannie too
10 Oct 2012, 19:50 pm
@Treehugger-66: Talking about giraffe did you see the story last week?
A zoo in China had to move one to new premises 7km away but were faced with over 20 low bridges, road signs, overhead cables etc.
So what did they do.
Simple, they taught it to duck!
It’s true, Google it.
10 Oct 2012, 19:53 pm
Wtf !!! I didn’t know there was a relegation in this years Currie Cup, for Super 15 yes. How come ? Have been a bit out of the loop for a few weeks.
10 Oct 2012, 19:59 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-97: hahaha you serious, am surprised cos the have a shocking record with animal welfare. No man, a Giraffe can’t really duck I see them all the time. Most proberly tazer’d the poor thing or something.
10 Oct 2012, 20:05 pm
@Treehugger-99: I kid you not! I first read the report in a newspaper then went to Google after that, they had pictures of its head sticking out of some kind of container on the back of a truck.
A nice story for a change…
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