Relegation threat forces Coetzee’s hand
10 Oct 2012
The possibility of WP dropping out of the Currie Cup Premier Division has contributed to the decision to push fatigued Springboks to play this Saturday.
Allister Coetzee was the Bok assistant coach between 2004 and 2007 before he linked up with the Stormers and Western Province in 2008. He is well aware of the manner in which rugby is administrated in South Africa, having been involved with the Boks and a provincial union, and knows how the contracting system is such that the provinces dictate how much rugby the Boks play over the course of a season.
On Wednesday, Coetzee explained his decision to include all seven returning Springboks in the starting line-up for the final Currie Cup league match against the Cheetahs.
Flanked by a visibly exhausted Jean de Villiers, Coetzee admitted that it was a not an ideal situation if one looked at it from a Bok perspective, but as a coach of a province that pays the players’ salaries, his hands were tied.
‘It’s the way the contracts work in this country, the players belong to the province,’ said Coetzee. ‘Unless there is a change to the structure, that is the way it’s going to be.’
WP are currently in third place on the Currie Cup log, but if they lose this weekend and the other two results go against them, they could finish in last position.
This would see them playing a promotion-relegation series against the Eastern Province Kings to determine who will feature in the 2013 Currie Cup.
It is therefore in WP’s interest to play all of their available Boks, no matter their state of fatigue. If there wasn’t such a risk of dropping down to the First Division, Coetzee may have given a few of the top players a much needed break.
‘If you look at what we are all facing, the reality of being relegated, well you have to have your Boks at your disposal,’ he said.
‘That’s what unions are going through right now, nobody wants to get relegated. If we were different position on the log, then maybe I wouldn’t have played all the Boks. Now we have to play our best team.’
It was thought at the beginning of the season that the Boks would be excused from the Currie Cup given their extensive workload in the Super Rugby competition and heavy Test schedule. But De Villiers suggested last week that the Boks would return for domestic duty at the conclusion of the Rugby Championship, and when he said it, you got the feeling that he wasn’t happy about it.
Coetzee confirmed on Wednesday that the thought process of using the Boks in the Currie Cup had changed recently because of the prospect of relegation.
Indeed, it is not only WP who have loaded their team with Boks. The Bulls have stacked their team with returning Boks and it’s likely that the Sharks will do the same when they name their side later in the week.
De Villiers is currently nursing a hamstring injury and will only train at WP’s captain’s run on Friday. It is a situation that highlights the faults of the South African system, and WP can’t be blamed for working within the given parameters.
If the South African system was similar to that of New Zealand, a country that centrally-contracts their players so that they are managed accordingly, they wouldn’t be in a position where a fatigue-related injury is a probability rather than a possibility.
De Villiers said that he wasn’t happy with the situation and, more damningly, suggested it wasn’t likely to change. It’s the rugby player’s lot in South Africa to simply get on with it.
‘It’s not really relevant what the players feel, it’s a decision that the administrators need to make,’ he said. ‘When you are needed, you need to step up. As long as the decision lies with the unions, it doesn’t matter what we as players feel.
‘We might gain more from something like central-contracting,’ admitted De Villiers. ‘Maybe we need to sit down and come up with a model that works for everyone.’
By Jon Cardinelli
251 Comments
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10 Oct 2012, 20:10 pm
The judge asks:’why do you keep beating her?’ Brakpan oukie replies: ‘I fink it’s my weight advantage,long reach and surperior foot work’…
10 Oct 2012, 20:15 pm
What AC is saying is true, and with commerce driving Pro sport – I for one would like to see EP replacing Griquas. Rugby reasons appart, EP has “new” rugby money whereas Griquas is still pro/ amateur. It makes for a stronger brand, the natural way of evolution. PE vs Kimberley.., city vs town. Such is demographic and commercial clout.
10 Oct 2012, 20:26 pm
@PissAnt-91:
Which bookie offered odds?
10 Oct 2012, 20:35 pm
On the subject of kicking, discussed earlier in this thread:
Goosen was the leading points scorer in this year’s Super Rugby tournament – his first – until he got injured (in fact, it took some time for the other kickers to catch him even after he was injured). The Goose can kick.
Also, we’ve probably seen enough to suggest that Louis Koen should get the sack.
10 Oct 2012, 20:52 pm
@Transformation-84:
Do you by any chance know if they podcast his programms on Metro website? Would like to listen to it. What time is his show?
10 Oct 2012, 20:52 pm
@sharks_lover-92: “However, he wasn’t at his best in the 2011 Super Rugby season when he played flyhalf and his best game was probably the one he played from fullback when Michalak took up pivot”
so even your Gavin Rich agrees wt Nama, Xhosakid & I who said yesterday Lambie wasn’t particularly flash at 10 this season to warrant the amount of hullabaloo that was made by some of the guppys.
10 Oct 2012, 20:55 pm
@Peter Mkata-105: his show is on everyday at 18:00 to 19:30, i’ll find out if they do.
10 Oct 2012, 20:58 pm
@Pot Blou Gevaar-102:
Pure common sense should dictate that. You know how selfish people are and to make it even worse the Kings are led by die NUWE GROOT GEVAAR namely Cheeky Watson. Aih some South African are really stuffed up in their heads. They deserve to be incarcerated at a mental institution until they change for the better.
10 Oct 2012, 20:59 pm
Next time you get a bill of R100k from your municipality, think about this woman.
Woman gets trillion-euro phone bill
Bordeaux – A Frenchwoman who received a telephone bill for an amount equivalent to nearly 6 000 times the country’s annual economic output has had the real amount she owed waived – after finally convincing the company they must have made a mistake.
Solenne San Jose, from Pessac in the Bordeaux region of south-western France, could not believe her eyes when she opened the bill to discover she was being asked to pay €11 721 000 000 000 000 to close her account.
“There were so many zeroes I couldn’t even work out how much it was,” she said.
San Jose’s alarm mounted when operators at Bouygues Telecom told her they could not amend the computer-generated statement or stop the balance from being debited from her bank account.
Only after a series of frantic calls did the company finally admit the bill should have been for €117.21.
Bouygues Telecom said the mix-up had been due to a printing error and a subsequent misunderstanding between the client and staff at their call centre.
10 Oct 2012, 21:05 pm
@Transformation-106: No he said he wasnt that good in 2011.
Dont twist words to suite your agenda, last year Jantjes wasnt very good either, but we all know this year is a different story NO???
The moral of the story is lambie was not dropped because of play being poor and was the first choice flyhalf for the Shaarks, injuries and bad form by the likes of Ludick and Viljoen is what made Plum select Lambie at 15.
And that is what i pointed out, and like PLum said, some of you okes got short memories!!!
10 Oct 2012, 21:12 pm
@Peter Mkata-108:
) in the promotion/relegation match….just to see how SARU scramble to extend the competition to 7 teams for next year in a bid to keep them up.
I would actually like to see the Kings beat one of the big unions if they end up in last spot (Cheetahs or Blue Bulls, not WP of course
10 Oct 2012, 21:16 pm
@Transformation-50: Transie, the fascinating thing about those stats is that two cougars who at the start of their careers COULD NOT HIT A BARN DOOR FROM 5m are now at or around the 80% mark – Cruden and Giteau.
Cruden in particular was a terrible kicker when he first made the AB’s, both from place kicks and from hand – in accurate and feeble distance. Yet in the space of 12 months, he has been turned into an accomplished all round kicker!
It tends to suggest the correct approach is to identify the most talented, smart playmakers at No 10, and then teach them to kick properly if that is necessary. Thus I much prefer a Lambie type player at 10 (playmaker first kicker second) to a Morne Steyn (kicker first, second, third etc, no playmaking abilities).
I realise that this is anathma to the SA tradition, and indeed it was in NZ as well. But thankfully we have learnt a thing or two from the Aussies!
10 Oct 2012, 21:20 pm
@nama1-111: It boggles the mind that SARU can guarantee a place for the Kings in the Super 15, yet they’re still not guaranteed a place in the Currie Cup Premier Division. Logically, each tier should contain seven teams next year.
10 Oct 2012, 21:21 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-100: yebo, very few of them sadly.
10 Oct 2012, 21:23 pm
As I have said before, Robbie Deans considered that Carter didn’t have the necessary skill set to play at 10 (which was why he only got a bit part at 12 in the 2003 RWC with a past it Spencer losing the semi for us gifting the intercept for Mortlock). If he and Mitch had retained the All Black coaching position in 2003, Carter might have given up and gone to play in England!
Interestingly, Henry was convinced by others not to take either Spencer or Merthens on Henry’s first EOYT to the British Isles, so that he (Henry) would have to give the full responsibility at No10 to Carter and whoever his back up was at the time. The rationale being that if he had either of those players in the team, if Carter stumbled then Henry would fall back on the safe option. (Also Spencer was seen as a dominant and somewhat negative influence on the team culture along with Marshall, which was another reason both were left behind that year).
There are some strong parallels here for the Bok EOYT.
10 Oct 2012, 21:28 pm
The veracity of possibly the worst sports’ DOPING (beware ‘Boks it’s often in your corner) incident that I highlighted on this site about a year ago via the CBS’ 60 MINUTES exposure, can now not ever be rationally explained, excused or denied by any smartarse on here as the story below confirms:
Updated Oct 10, 2012 1:59 PM ET
USADA: Teammates testified vs. Lance
Lance Armstrong challenged the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency to name names and say what it had on him.
On Wednesday it did.
The anti-doping body revealed a group of 11 former Armstrong teammates – some loyal, some estranged – who each provided evidence of drug use on the U.S. Postal Service team. USADA Chief Executive Travis Tygart called it ”the most sophisticated, professionalized and successful doping program that sport has ever seen.”
USADA will deliver its reasoned decision against Armstrong later Wednesday, a summary of the facts it used to hand him a lifetime suspension and erase his titles. The organization has banned the seven-time Tour de France winner from competition for life and declared his victories null and void.
In a news release previewing the decision, Tygart said it would include more than 1,000 pages of evidence. He listed 11 of Armstrong’s former teammates, including George Hincapie, Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton, as among those providing evidence that led to the sanction.
Tygart said the evidence shows the code of silence that dominated cycling has been shattered.
”It took tremendous courage for the riders on the USPS Team and others to come forward and speak truthfully,” he said. ”It is not easy to admit your mistakes and accept your punishment. But that is what these riders have done for the good of the sport.”
Armstrong’s attorney, Tim Herman, called the report ”a one-sided hatchet job – a taxpayer funded tabloid piece rehashing old, disproved, unreliable allegations based largely on axe-grinders, serial perjurers, coerced testimony, sweetheart deals and threat-induced stories.”
Aware of the criticism it has faced from Armstrong and his legion of followers, Tygart insisted USADA handled this case under the same rules as any other. He pointed out that Armstrong was given the chance to take his case to arbitration and he declined, choosing to accept the sanctions instead.
”We focused solely on finding the truth without being influenced by celebrity or non-celebrity, threats, personal attacks or political pressure because that is what clean athletes deserve and demand,” Tygart said.
In delivering the report to the International Cycling Union, Tygart called for the federation to create a meaningful program to help clean up the sport.
The USADA report was widely expected to pull together and amplify allegations that have followed Armstrong ever since he beat cancer and won the Tour for the first time. At various times and in different forums, Landis, Hamilton and others have said that Armstrong encouraged doping on his team and used banned substances himself.
While the arguments about Armstrong will continue among sports fans – and there is still a question of whether USADA or UCI has ultimate control of taking away his Tour titles – the new report puts a cap on the official investigations. Armstrong was cleared of criminal charges in February after a federal grand jury probe that lasted about two years.
Tygart said evidence from 26 people, including 15 riders with knowledge of the U.S. Postal Service Team’s doping activities, provided material for the report. It was with the USPS team that Armstrong won all but one of his Tour titles from 1999-2005.
Other cyclists named in the news release were Frankie Andreu, Michael Barry, Tom Danielson, Levi Leipheimer, Stephen Swart, Christian Vande Velde, Jonathan Vaughters and David Zabriskie.
In a letter sent to USADA attorneys Tuesday, Herman dismissed any evidence provided by Landis and Hamilton, calling them ”serial perjurers and have told diametrically contradictory stories under oath.”
Hincapie’s role in the investigation could be more damaging, as he was one of Armstrong’s closest and most loyal teammates through the years.
”Two years ago, I was approached by U.S. federal investigators, and more recently by USADA, and asked to tell of my personal experience in these matters,” the cyclist said in a statement published shortly after USADA’s release. ”I would have been much more comfortable talking only about myself, but understood that I was obligated to tell the truth about everything I knew. So that is what I did.”
Hincapie’s two-page statement did not mention Armstrong by name.
Tygart said all the evidence in the Armstrong case and the cases of six other riders targeted in USADA’s investigation would be made available on the agency’s website later Wednesday.
Two other players in the Postal team’s circle, Dr. Michele Ferrari and Dr. Garcia del Moral, also received lifetime bans as part of the case.
Three other members of the USPS team will take their cases to arbitration. They are team director Johan Bruyneel, team doctor Pedro Celaya and team trainer Jose ”Pepe” Marti.
Armstrong chose not to pursue the case and instead accepted the sanction, though he has persistently argued that the USADA system was rigged against him, calling the agency’s effort a ”witch hunt” that used special rules it doesn’t follow in all its other cases.
The UCI has asked for details of the case before it decides whether to sign off on the sanctions. The federation has 21 days to appeal the case to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.
USADA has said it doesn’t need UCI’s approval and Armstrong’s penalties already are in place.
UCI President Pat McQuaid, who is in China for the Tour of Beijing, did not respond to telephone calls from The Associated Press requesting comment.
The report also will go to the World Anti-Doping Agency, which also has the right to appeal, but so far has supported USADA’s position in the Armstrong case.
ASO, the company that runs the Tour de France and could have a say in where Armstrong’s titles eventually go, said it has ”no particular comment to make on this subject.”
10 Oct 2012, 21:30 pm
@corporal punishment-112: it is only anathema to the verkrampte! the reason why pdv even played ruan at 10 was because at the end if ’08 & beginning of ’09 pienaar showed serious aptitude to make play & direct the game but his kicking was very erratic & in the environment of having to win EVERYTHING jettisoned the pienaar experiment for the sharp shooting MSteyn – for sure with matfield & du preez egging on for morne.
10 Oct 2012, 21:31 pm
The above disgusting doping matter is now closed as far as I am concerned as the SKUNK got what he so well deserved.
Cheating in sports by using drugs, apart from being extremely harmful is the most nauseating manner to get to the top. From that lofty position you only FALL.
10 Oct 2012, 21:38 pm
@super_adi-113:
You can be assured that some change in the system will take place if the Kings beat anyone of the Cheetahs or the Blue Bulls or WP in a promotion/relegation match.
However, if the Griquas end up in last place and lose the promotion/relegation match, they’ll play in the CC first division next year.
10 Oct 2012, 21:42 pm
Another important view, idea I brought to this site was the importance of PROTEINS in any life. All membrane receptors are proteins. The story below clinches that for you doubting mugs:
2012 Nobel Prize in Chemistry awarded for G-protein-coupled receptors
The Nobel Prize Committee in Sweden announced on Wednesday that the 2012 Nobel Prize in Chemistry has been awarded to Americans Robert J. Lefkowitz and Brian K. for their combined work on discovering and understanding the function of G-protein-coupled receptors in cells.
G-protein-coupled receptors are a group of cell receptors which cells use to sense their environments by receiving various hormones in order to change bodily functions to adapt accordingly.
Lefkowitz started his research in 1968 with Kobilka joining the team in in the 1980s, and their research spanned several decades up until Kobilka’s 2011 image capture of one of these receptors, a ?-adrenergic receptor, at the time that it is activated by a hormone and signals the cell accordingly.
Robert J. Lefkowitz is an Investigator at the Howard Hughes Medical Institute and the James B. Duke Professor of Medicine as well as a Professor of Biochemistry at the Duke University Medical Center in Durham, North Carolina.
Brian K. Kobilka is a Professor of Medicine as well as a Professor of Molecular and Cellular Physiology at the Stanford University School of Medicine in Stanford, California.
The prize will be awarded on December 10, 2012 in Stockholm by Sweden’s King Carl XVI Gustaf and includes a monetary prize of 8 million Swedish krona (almost $1.2 million).
10 Oct 2012, 21:43 pm
@Transformation-117: Transie, the other significant difference between NZ and SA teams is that your No9′s are expected to be playmakers, particularly playing a kicking game, whereas in NZ the job of the No9 is simply to get the ball to the No10 who then makes all the playmaking decisions.
This is possibly why Bok supporters generally say the AB’s have rubbish half backs. Yes, our half backs aren’t much good at a lot of the stuff that a Joost or FdP does, but they are playing a different role. This is particularly highlighted by Aaron Smith – many Bokke supporters can’t see what is special about him – whereas Kiwi’s marvel about the extra time and space he creates for the decision maker at 10.
One other thing. If the 9 is the playmaker, he only has one direction he can pass on the open side (the best option for creating overlaps). Whereas the No10 has two options – an outside pass or an inside pass. If the No10 is able to stand quite wide as Carter does some of the time, this accentuates the inside option. This forces the opposition to hold defenders on the inside channel, particularly if the No10 takes the ball flat and has a running game. If the opposition defence isn’t well organised, as was the case on Sat, this approach limits the width of the opposition defence or alternatively creates midfield holes.
Focusing the defence on a wider No10 also creates running opportunities for the halfback as the game wears on. When Genia is playing, the Aussies are great at manipulating this. They make a point of having running No10s who can pass off both hands, and after doing this for a while, BOOM Genia makes an inside break. This has suckered the AB’s getting on to half a dozen times!
I’m happy to come give a coaching clinic on back line play if you promise to treat me nice
10 Oct 2012, 22:01 pm
@ET.-116:
Yeah, he most likely doped, but he was still the greatest Tour de France rider in the history of the sport..The top guys probably all doped during that era -the ex tour winner Bjarne Riis (a covicted doper who is allowed to keep his jersey) called doping “the circumstance of the business” of the time.
It’s going to be very interesting who wil get his jerseys. If they hand it to second place riders during those years it will mean that Jan Ulrich who himself is a convicted doper will become a 4 time winner of the tour – what a farce
10 Oct 2012, 22:05 pm
ET
I didn’t get anything.
10 Oct 2012, 22:06 pm
@corporal punishment-121: *sigh* just last thursday i had to justify what is so special about aaron smith & i reckon you’ve closed the debate SHUT!
10 Oct 2012, 22:06 pm
wtf g-receptors got to do with anything?
gdam that **** is horrifically boring, tinkering with details, whats the big picture…
10 Oct 2012, 22:12 pm
@corporal punishment-121: we’ve needed the playmaking 9s to mask the deficiencies of louis koen, jannie de beer, braam van straaten, morne steyn, peter grant, joel stransky, herkie kruger etc = robotic kicking machines.
10 Oct 2012, 22:14 pm
@nama1-111:
Nama there is already talk from Bloemfontein of reverting to 8 currie cup league with Kings and Pumas getting automatic promotion. Check out EP Kings Army website.
I also would love to see how those self serving spineless leaders of SARU will unscramble the egg. How I wish Steve Tshwete was still alive to sort this mess out. He did not bit about the bush, great rugby man who played for Border (old non-racial Saru) as a flank in his days.
10 Oct 2012, 22:17 pm
@Transformation-107:
Thanks Transie.
10 Oct 2012, 22:26 pm
@Transformation-126:
Such a sad indictment in our rugby. We had good 10s not so long ago – Robie Blair, Colin Beck, Michael du Plessis, DeWet Ras in establishment rugby of the 70s and 80s. Then Peter Mkata, Errol Tobias and many others in nonracial Saru.. Then the skop and jag era of Naas Botha began.
10 Oct 2012, 22:26 pm
@Transformation-126: I think the Aussie model is best, with a Gregan/Larkham or a Genia/[non-flakey version of cooper
]
Genia inside Dan Carter would be awesome.
10 Oct 2012, 22:26 pm
the big picture is BOOM everybody going up in smoke in a matter of sundaes from here.. so if a dinosaur can morph into a bird into a gazelle into a horse into a dog, and a chimp can morph into a human simple by adapting to the environmental fields that feed its protein receptors to enact some adaptation in its chromosome or DNA structure.. there you go nature is busy creating creation as you morph along with her.
The problem with SA fly halves has nothing to do with their lack of talent it has everything to do with the fear based ideology that drives rugby in this country.. so f’ng sh’t scared to lose they don’t know how to win..
Its these goddamn coward chicken arsed ego ridden coaches.. every last one of them cowards through and through,, Williams, Markgraaf, Streauli, White, e Villiers, Meyer.. every goddamn last one of them are the worst rugby cowards ever to have coached the Boks into the dark ages of sheer outright fear of losing cowardice. Nothing wrong with the level of ability and talent.. everything to do with the outright fear ridden cowardice that kills every last iota of exhilaration rugby ingenuity out of the players conditioning. By the time they get into a Springbok jersey they are toast.. all the natural talent has been eroded and decimated through the fear driven tactics to hell and back already.
That is the fundamental difference between Boks and AB’s / Aussie / France and even Wales and Ireland.. sheer fear of losing equates to absolute fear to win.
10 Oct 2012, 22:30 pm
@fitz1ella-131: With Jantjies, Lambie and Goosen you really do have the talent to break the mould of the last 20 years. Will your coach be brave enough to do so?
10 Oct 2012, 22:31 pm
@Peter Mkata-127:
How disappointing the faith and respect you show for non-racial sell-out Steve (only-a-few-dollars-more) Tshwete.
He always went ‘jelly’ in the knees for money.
By merger negotiation the 2 ‘national’ cricket bodies agreed not to participate in the 1992 CWC (ODI) in Australia as part of the deal.
No sooner did the ink dry on that negotiation when the racist cricket component through one of their many money men convinced Stevie not-Wonder, with dollars, to allow the Proteas to go to Australia (thankfully they lost because they could not score 18 runs off 1 ball).
10 Oct 2012, 22:34 pm
@corporal punishment-132: Nope not this coach .. he’s a goddamn coward.. maybe worse than the last and the one before that… Kick first ask questions later.. that’s our motto over here.. been like that since Nasty Booter and it aint about to be changing any time soon.. The only respite we had was 2 years at the end of the penaultimate decade before the millennium broke its back with Henry Honibal.. every other year its been boom shakalak skop die donner doer oor die pawiljoen.
10 Oct 2012, 22:37 pm
translation = kick that bugger far as you can over the other side of the pavilion.
10 Oct 2012, 22:40 pm
I’d like to comment on what I think is another misconception of AB rugby amongst many of the Bok posters on this site.
Many comment that they rate the AB side of 96 as the best ever AB side, above this current side.
I would describe that team as the best ATTACKING side the AB’s have ever produced. The AB’s haven’t seen players with the attacking powers of Cullen and Lomu before or since.
However, that AB side had weaknesses on defence, including Cullen’s poor kicking game meaning the AB’s didn’t have a good tactical kicking game outside Merhtens. This lack of focus on the all round game at the expense of attacking firepower dogged the AB’s from 2006 through to the start of the 2010 season.
What changed in 2010 is that the AB coaches sacrificed some attacking firepower dropping Sivi and Rokococo, and instead picking more SA styled wingers who were much better all rounders and particularly who were better under the high ball.
This AB side is definately not as strong on attack as a number of AB sides from 96 to 2009, BUT it is rock solid on defence and this has allowed us to win close games that would have previously have slipped through our grasp.
I think it is this change, and this change alone, that allowed us to win the 2011 WC somewhat against the odds having lost DC and with our other two best players fairly badly injured (McCaw and Read).
Willingness to learn off other teams, including the Springboks, is one of the great things that the Henry era brought to the AB team. I think this is one of the reasons that the AB’s now get on much better with the Bok players – we have a genuine respect for the qualities of your players and want to learn from your strengths (whilst punishing your weaknesses ha ha).
10 Oct 2012, 22:50 pm
Boom, we all going up in smoke, how you know – maybe we create an advanced orangutang or even a new universe with just the right conditions where we eat sundaes every day of the week, tra lala lala
10 Oct 2012, 22:59 pm
how many times you gone up in smoke already and you don’t even know about it.. how many times you gone round and round the same wagon wheel and you don’t even know how many times you been traipsing up and down the grand Ferris wheel.
its only been a matter of around 300 years since you started peeking out from under natures petticoat and finding out you far more than an evolved orangutan peering into the vast cosmic oceans seeking for clues to your existence.. and then .. poof.. just like the dinosaurs .. boom.. bang .. crash.. go back to go and start all over again…
without a trace of who you are or where you were or been before.
10 Oct 2012, 23:04 pm
what? who gone up in smoke, only one time around, once and only, if theres another i hope i come back as a pair of boobies, any ideas how to get that right?
10 Oct 2012, 23:08 pm
so in 100,000 years of hairless ape, and 3billion years of life on earth, ours is the ony one who in the last eyeblink got any fathom of anything, seens like an awful long time of pointlessness, whose to say not another species on planet zoltan who far far more advanced than we are, in fact surely there’s a far greater possibility of that being true than anything else – so what makes being a human being so special at all?
10 Oct 2012, 23:17 pm
there plenty species plenty places else.. who you think you are.. Adam the unique?
That why you don’t have the faintest.. the scope of our educated guesswork is so infinitesimal and incomplete you don’t have the foggiest faintest minutest idea of who’s who in the ever evolving zoo .. and uncle Darwin didn’t have a hickory dickory clue.
10 Oct 2012, 23:17 pm
@Robzim-122: what’s great about a cheat? the very antithesis of sport. If they were all cheating then it wasn’t a sport, but rather a farce.
10 Oct 2012, 23:18 pm
@cab-140: Come now Cab, as we Kiwi’s are constantly reminded, we are on a South African website. The answer is clearly SOUTH AFRICAN RUGBY!
10 Oct 2012, 23:20 pm
@corporal punishment-143:
great point corporal – pretty much one of a handful of truly important things.
if only we started to select and play better, it could even be enjoyable.
10 Oct 2012, 23:25 pm
uncle darwin, gave us the first clue, there been many more a-coming fast and furious since, but as you say its only around the last couple hundred years we gotta any clue – thank god for the labjockeys, otherwise we’d still be contemplating our asses like the tutus – i been reading all this tutu **** on the tube, and am embarresed – i aint read so much hocus pocus **** in all me life, if any of that **** is true, its a complete fkn shambles, but every tututribe say something different, pretty much as dogmatic as the huiliges.
10 Oct 2012, 23:34 pm
exactly why it can all go poof for another 3 billion years before it comes around to wakey wakey time again.. you think suns and solar systems and galaxies don’t go poof back up their arseholes .. super nova then red giant then white dwarf then black hole .. into where .. nothingness? and that is a major dissolution.. what about all the minor dissolution’s in-between.. like here on this planet alone.. how many times its gone through cycles of species,., where the dinosaurs come from .., where the giants and the cyclops’s go to ., how many civilizations you know about that existed before this one.. how advanced were the Egyptians and Phoenicians, and Sumerians, and Mayan and ancient Chinese., and who before that?.. They found entire cities under the oceans off Japanese coastlines., yet no trace of any recorded history., how many ice ages., how many waxing and waning of civilization from advanced learning to dark ages of ignorance.., and back up and then back down again. Has the earth shifted on its axis before or not.. no scientist can verify a yes or a no.. was Antarctica once inhabited at the equator, yes .., no.., maybe.., if not why not..? and if not are there traces of extra terrestrial activity on this planet or not.. ?
One smack from a meteor and its back to the drawing board for another how many million or billion years of regenerating chromosomes and DNA back to a specie that can think and determine its own intelligent design all the way from nothing.
10 Oct 2012, 23:39 pm
giants and cyclops in the fairy tales, aesops fables or greek myths – same with atlantis and neverneverland – what **** u talking … when u go on about this conspiracy theory kak thats when i get v worried, the stuff with a modicum of sense, is the stuff about our conceptualising being limited and possibly learned and that there’s possible nothing to begin with (but even that there major problems with), but when u start with the emanations and distillations and trasnmigrations, thats all dogma, plan and simple.
10 Oct 2012, 23:47 pm
so Zeus and Apollo is Aesop fairy tales., old Plato was just a dreamer and Socrates didn’t know his arse from his elbow.
who do you actually think man is.. an evolved animal or a conscious being
Darwin got his Aesop’s fable upside down.. he thinks he’s a goddamn apeman .. when in fact half of him is a degenerated spaceman.
10 Oct 2012, 23:50 pm
matter before mind, not the other way around – what u think that grey noodle in your head is for ? u reckon its for show or a honing beacon of iets ? how much of the universe u reckon u;ll be conteplating with a frontal lobotomy?
10 Oct 2012, 23:52 pm
there is no empirical knowledge about who you are.. not a goddamn sausage of any empirical knowledge about whether you are a chimp or an orangutan or a ethereal displaced moron from Pleiades or Zardoz
keep trying to split matter into more infinite realms of non existence and eventually you get what? … nothing.. or something?
what you see and theorize about as fixed and real is exactly the opposite.. it is mutable and unreal
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