Relegation threat forces Coetzee’s hand
10 Oct 2012
The possibility of WP dropping out of the Currie Cup Premier Division has contributed to the decision to push fatigued Springboks to play this Saturday.
Allister Coetzee was the Bok assistant coach between 2004 and 2007 before he linked up with the Stormers and Western Province in 2008. He is well aware of the manner in which rugby is administrated in South Africa, having been involved with the Boks and a provincial union, and knows how the contracting system is such that the provinces dictate how much rugby the Boks play over the course of a season.
On Wednesday, Coetzee explained his decision to include all seven returning Springboks in the starting line-up for the final Currie Cup league match against the Cheetahs.
Flanked by a visibly exhausted Jean de Villiers, Coetzee admitted that it was a not an ideal situation if one looked at it from a Bok perspective, but as a coach of a province that pays the players’ salaries, his hands were tied.
‘It’s the way the contracts work in this country, the players belong to the province,’ said Coetzee. ‘Unless there is a change to the structure, that is the way it’s going to be.’
WP are currently in third place on the Currie Cup log, but if they lose this weekend and the other two results go against them, they could finish in last position.
This would see them playing a promotion-relegation series against the Eastern Province Kings to determine who will feature in the 2013 Currie Cup.
It is therefore in WP’s interest to play all of their available Boks, no matter their state of fatigue. If there wasn’t such a risk of dropping down to the First Division, Coetzee may have given a few of the top players a much needed break.
‘If you look at what we are all facing, the reality of being relegated, well you have to have your Boks at your disposal,’ he said.
‘That’s what unions are going through right now, nobody wants to get relegated. If we were different position on the log, then maybe I wouldn’t have played all the Boks. Now we have to play our best team.’
It was thought at the beginning of the season that the Boks would be excused from the Currie Cup given their extensive workload in the Super Rugby competition and heavy Test schedule. But De Villiers suggested last week that the Boks would return for domestic duty at the conclusion of the Rugby Championship, and when he said it, you got the feeling that he wasn’t happy about it.
Coetzee confirmed on Wednesday that the thought process of using the Boks in the Currie Cup had changed recently because of the prospect of relegation.
Indeed, it is not only WP who have loaded their team with Boks. The Bulls have stacked their team with returning Boks and it’s likely that the Sharks will do the same when they name their side later in the week.
De Villiers is currently nursing a hamstring injury and will only train at WP’s captain’s run on Friday. It is a situation that highlights the faults of the South African system, and WP can’t be blamed for working within the given parameters.
If the South African system was similar to that of New Zealand, a country that centrally-contracts their players so that they are managed accordingly, they wouldn’t be in a position where a fatigue-related injury is a probability rather than a possibility.
De Villiers said that he wasn’t happy with the situation and, more damningly, suggested it wasn’t likely to change. It’s the rugby player’s lot in South Africa to simply get on with it.
‘It’s not really relevant what the players feel, it’s a decision that the administrators need to make,’ he said. ‘When you are needed, you need to step up. As long as the decision lies with the unions, it doesn’t matter what we as players feel.
‘We might gain more from something like central-contracting,’ admitted De Villiers. ‘Maybe we need to sit down and come up with a model that works for everyone.’
By Jon Cardinelli
251 Comments
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10 Oct 2012, 23:52 pm
socrates knew he knew nothing, which is why he questioned, something the tutus no like. socrates also said know thyself, i.e. your limits, not your navel.
10 Oct 2012, 23:55 pm
who says anything’s fixed and real? youe straw-scientist must be about 300 years ago when bertie the bullshitter steiner still going on about animus and such spark-of-life ****. time you updated.
10 Oct 2012, 23:58 pm
the universe is made up of what.. matter .. or dark matter.. what is the actual fabric of existence?
how much of the known or seen physical universe is real and how much is unseen .. and which is the real universe.. the material mutable unfixed one.. or the fixed and unseen (quantum) universe
when a sun goes super nova and collapses into a black hole.. where does all that ‘real’ matter go to? .. poof .. into ‘nothing’ or where?
how much of you do you think is matter and how much of you is mind.. and how much of you is ephemeral and how much of you is eternal…
Darwin or Dawkins don’t have the beginning of the foggiest faintest clue.. and neither do you.
10 Oct 2012, 23:59 pm
Back to the rugby, Sam Cane will be looking over his shoulder at Julian’s little brother (see article below). I also read an article about another freakish flanker coming through the NZ schools rugby comps, who was described as more physically gifted than Lomu. Unfortunately I can’t remember the guys name and can’t refind the article!!
New Hurricanes recruit Ardie Savea has been likened to All Blacks legend Michael Jones by the coaching staff that secured his signature.
Four days short of his 19th birthday, the dynamic openside flanker and New Zealand Sevens rep yesterday became the 26th Hurricane signed for the next Super Rugby season. Having agreed to a two-year deal, he’ll join elder brother Julian in coach Mark Hammett’s 2013 squad as the odds rapidly shorten on the pair wearing All Blacks jerseys together.
Hurricanes and Wellington assistant coach Richard Watt said Savea added a new dimension, and was adamant he was ready.
“He brings something else to a seven role with his sheer athleticism and pace. He’s almost a throwback to the Michael Jones-type seven,” Watt said.
“He’s got some pretty special qualities. He has that sheer pace and he’s pretty brave and doesn’t mind sticking his head in the dark places when he gets there.”
Watt spied Savea at Rongotai College when he was carving up at second five-eighth. And it only took a few minutes with the big boys, in this year’s non-competition match against the Reds, to show Super Rugby held no fears for the teenager.
“I got a hint he was ready when we took him over to Mooloolaba to play the Reds. He ran on at halftime and the first scrum the ball squirted out and he pounced on it and shoved the nine off and ran around the 10 and scored by the posts. That was his first touch for the Hurricanes.”
Well grounded and with an excellent work ethic, Watt said Savea will serve an apprenticeship with fellow No 7s Jack Lam and Karl Lowe.
“The main work-on for him will be his body shape and putting a few more kilos on his frame. He’s about 97kg at the moment and most of the sevens running around at that level are 100-plus.”
Savea scored six tries in a barnstorming first eight NPC games for Wellington but claims he was surprised to be summoned to Hammett’s office a fortnight ago.
He still lives at home and told his supportive parents, Masina and Lina, that night. After Julian arrived back from South Africa, Ardie broke it to his proud brother over a family dinner on Tuesday.
“It’s quite unreal. I didn’t think any of this would happen so fast.”
Savea’s grown up quickly in the past year, after playing sevens for New Zealand and debuting for Wellington. And he takes the responsibility of being a rugby pro seriously.
11 Oct 2012, 00:01 am
@cab-151: you got zero clue about what the tutu’s say.. they say EXACTLY the same thing.. Socrates was the ultimate Tutu.. Know Thyself.. that is EVERYTHING that there is to know.. so get to it apie chimpy orangutan get to the bottom of the universal exercise already.. Know Thyself…
11 Oct 2012, 00:09 am
problem with academics is they are the most stupid ignorant idiots on this planet.. they get taught so much bullshit that they gotta unlearn all that goddamn bullshit again before they EVER get to learn anything that is true..
an intellectual academic idiot is the most stupidest ignorant f’ng idiot to ever been given a brain.. he don’t know the beginning of what the fck he is even doing inhabiting a human body.. yet he reckons he knows it all.. get to the core of the goddamn exercise already.. follow Socrates example and REALIZE you actually know Fck ALL.. and START to learn to Know Thyself.. stupid ignorant falsely educated academic dunce of all dunces…
you better find a tutu fast to teach you everything you know fckall about.. because you going around in abject blind delusion and you ain’t about to find fckall out in the next 3 score and ten years before all the lights go out…
11 Oct 2012, 00:09 am
what dark matter got to do with consciousness? only thing known about it is its affect on the expansion rate. dark energy the bigger one, but energy even more dissolute than matter in archaic tutu thought, so dats probably considered even closer to mind.
they dont say the same thing at all, your mate Big T says something very different from you for example, he says there’s nothing, and if there’s nothing there can be know causation (or in your crazy-speak, karma) and no beings, neither stepped-down, nor stepped-up, no tutupriests, nada – save for mind – in that view the only thing that exists is mind, everything else is false appearance, all objects, and that is what the original big B said before it was all fkd up over millenia of interpretations.
11 Oct 2012, 00:11 am
nothing to learn, not from academics or from tutus, all bollocks.
out.
11 Oct 2012, 00:21 am
who the fck is Big T.. I don’t know any bullshit artist called Big T.. you following the wrong Tutu’s china.. better upgrade or you going down the same plughole they are.
out and about .. follow the yellow brick road.. it surely lead you to the wonderful wizard of Oz. or just follow your schnoz .. schmoz
11 Oct 2012, 00:28 am
those poor fckers confusing the hell out of you and themselves.. pity you went and landed yourself in a rats nest where every stupid ignorant arrogant idiot trying to educate the next about nothing…when he’s the most fck’d up baffled goon on the planet.. you better get out the cookie jar cos its going poof.. sometime soon, and those self aggrandized lostfart loonies are not going to give you one iota of an answer cos they got none..less than none… they the most lost f’ng goons in creation.. even more lost than Darwin, Donald Duck and Dawkins and that is pretty far lost.. believe me.
11 Oct 2012, 06:11 am
@corporal punishment-136:
Yeah Punisher, the respect we have for the Bok and Aussies for that matter comes back to wanting to emulate their strengths. The Boks brutal confrontational style in the forwards and the Aussies ability to engage the defensive line and probe the weaknesses of the opposition.
One thing though the 96 team did have the advantage of Walter Little in at second five who had a very good tactical boot on him. Also John Preston on the bench gave the side excellent cover at half and first five.
11 Oct 2012, 06:34 am
No cause to worry. The EP Kinks couldn’t beat an egg in the REAL first division.
11 Oct 2012, 06:46 am
@TheTackler-162:
Hi Tackler
Tell us more about your self. You seem to be a very lonely fellow.
11 Oct 2012, 06:58 am
@TheTackler-162: yeag whatever tackler how many ITM Cup Championship = 2nd division – teams have beaten teams in the ITM Premiership = 1st division?
why not just call them what they are tickles?
11 Oct 2012, 07:32 am
Richie Makou se boek kom een van die dae uit,as jy dit soek by n boekwinkel kyk net aan die verkeerde kant van die rak.
11 Oct 2012, 07:40 am
@Te Rangatira-161:
That’s where we fall down. Our coaches like Jake and HM believe that we have to perpetuate a specific Springbok “brand” of rugby based on our traditional strengths instead of our players current strengths.
11 Oct 2012, 07:42 am
@Fern-165: Good one!!!
11 Oct 2012, 07:44 am
Gospet truth BB.
I see Charl handed tiger and rory their heads in the golf at turkey.
11 Oct 2012, 09:00 am
Saru has a simple, but not most effective, way to handle the overplaying of the Boks at the business end of the CC. The CC finals should be played on the same weekend as the last two games of the RC or the first two games of our November tour. If they choose the last option The EP Kings and another small union can be brought in again and teams will not pick the Boks as they will probably not be in a promotion relegation battle and it is pointless to pick your Boks for a week or two if they are not going to be available for the finals.
11 Oct 2012, 09:18 am
@fitz1ella-160: Sjoe, ek dink die babelas is besonders erg vanoggend.
11 Oct 2012, 09:23 am
oh but for a day
either this or that way
how the world turns….
wp fighting to avoid facing the kings…. love it….
11 Oct 2012, 09:23 am
How on earth did South African rugby get so vrot so quickly?
The Sharks could field a team of non Boks and still win…why can’t Province and the Bulls?
It’s not like there is a shortage of talent.
11 Oct 2012, 10:08 am
Burger Update, (due to return at 2nd week of 2013 Super Rugby)
Cape Town – Rocked by economic woe, soaring fuel costs, political power scrambles and corruption, strike upheaval and a seemingly never-ending cycle of crime, South Africa could do with some good news.So here’s a wee bit of relief from the general gloom: Schalk Burger, one of the country’s most iconic sporting sons, is on the comeback trail … and this time, touch wood, it’s for real.It won’t necessarily lift the tottering rand but, all going well, Sport24 can exclusively reveal that the blond dynamo of loose forward play is freshly earmarked to return to first-class rugby on the second weekend of Super Rugby 2013 activity for the Stormers, the SA conference winners earlier this year and losing semi-finalists.
Western Province and Stormers head coach Allister Coetzee told us on Wednesday: “I can give you a positive update: Schalk saw the specialist last week and he was very pleased with where the knee is at right now.“So much so that as from next week (the player) can start the rehab programme – Schalk is really walking actively on the knee again, without a brace. He will thus be able to step up things like cycling, swimming and so on.“From Schalk’s own perspective, he is so excited there is no (further) pain at the moment … yes, you could say he’s out of the dark room.“Knowing Schalk, he’s not simply trying to be optimistic, either; he’s an honest and upfront bloke in terms of that. He’s been out for months … you would think he knows when to be optimistic or to feel differently.”Burger, who damaged left knee ligaments in an awkward tackle against the Hurricanes at Newlands back in late February, has had a deflating few weeks after getting back into some conditioning work with the Stormers squad around the mid-year mark, only for the injury to respond poorly to initial rehab and effectively take him back to square one.That setback even sparked premature – but perhaps understandable – reports at the time that his illustrious career might be in jeopardy.Coetzee said he was “absolutely confident” Burger was on track to begin the next Super Rugby campaign.“If he should miss out on something (early on) … maybe one game in February. But we do expect a full-on kind of return to training during December; we will go about his return conservatively on the knee front but the other parts of his body will still be drilled – don’t you worry about that!“Honestly, he is so looking forward to next year. He has been seriously frustrated simply watching the other players out there.”Under scheduled circumstances, then, Burger is earmarked to miss the Stormers’ tough opener, a Loftus derby against old foes the Bulls on February 22, but then make his keenly-anticipated return against the Sharks at Mr Price Kings Park on March 2.His first game back before the Newlands faithful, all going well, would be the third fixture of the Stormers’ programme – another demanding one against defending champions the Chiefs on March 9.Coetzee agreed that there had been some unintentional blessings in Burger’s sidelining, even if it has been for longer than previously anticipated.“We know that (All
Blacks captain and a great Burger rival) Richie McCaw is to have a six-month sabbatical from rugby in the first part of next year … this has really been Schalk’s own sabbatical, and perhaps much-needed in many respects.”Although it may seem to many people that the famously combative Burger has been around first-class rugby forever, he is actually almost two years younger than McCaw at 29 and presumably has plenty left to offer the game if the knee does, indeed, repair properly.Burger has earned 68 Springbok caps since 2003 and was considered among the favourites to assume the captaincy when Heyneke Meyer took over as national coach earlier this year, only for long-time Stormers team-mate Jean de Villiers to grab the reins in his absence.De Villiers also smartly steered the Super Rugby ship for the franchise after Burger’s mishap early in the campaign.Coetzee did not commit to who his Stormers captain would be in the new year – presumably he will first want assurance that Burger is genuinely ready for consistent activity again.“He and Jean are fantastic leaders and we’ve also had captaincy from a younger guy like Deon Fourie and also Duane (Vermeulen) … so with leadership I’ve got no problem at all. But definitely Schalk will be in the mix.”
11 Oct 2012, 10:10 am
@Horings-170: janee – Socrates het geweet hy weet fokkol. Ons weet almal ou Snoekie weet fokkol..
11 Oct 2012, 10:14 am
@Guns-173:
errr ok.. i’ve seen that guy on tv recently and i dont know if it was the studio camera angle or the lighting but i could swear he had a triple chin and two sets of cheeks.
lots of work ahead for him then.
11 Oct 2012, 10:21 am
Looks like Taute has jointed the Stormers!!!
11 Oct 2012, 10:30 am
@Gumboots-176:
another cc wunderkind for wp then.
make sure he stays out of the international super rugby fixtures.
11 Oct 2012, 10:33 am
Ja last time I saw of him he was still on crutches.. Plenty of time between now and then, in 3/4months u would expect a professional athlete to get back into condition, it all comes down to the knee though and is not something that should be rushed, the should give him longer if needed would be silly to rush him back in.
11 Oct 2012, 10:35 am
Looks like Janjies will follow him. Question is do we want Janjies becoming a defensive orientated player? If he does go to Weepee they need to keep emphasis on his attacking game, the loosies can play defence.
11 Oct 2012, 10:37 am
well done stormers on signed taute.
i predict tautes inclusion ahead of JdJ in future bok teams will bring far less whining out of the cape going forward.
11 Oct 2012, 10:40 am
signing taute.
madame zingara still has my brain and a bit of my name is probably being swept off the floor right now
11 Oct 2012, 10:43 am
Keo seems to be slacking off. Lets get some new info.
11 Oct 2012, 10:50 am
Taute got a good schooling by Nonu and Smith.
11 Oct 2012, 10:52 am
@Guns-173: “Schalk Burger, one of the country’s most iconic sporting sons, is on the comeback trail … ”
Good guy and good player….but iconic…..only in Cape town
11 Oct 2012, 10:54 am
Ranger you’ll be supporting the black tide next week in Brisbane, when we thump them you should go back to 2nd in the rankings.
Has Ritchie’s book sold out yet in the republic?
11 Oct 2012, 10:57 am
So the Stormer Suits finally seem to have got something right ….
Backline looks far better now…and some decent depth…
15 Taute [ according to Cape Times this is where AC will use him ]
14 Aplon
13 JDJ
12 JDV
11 Habana
10 Jantjes
9 Duvenhage
depth
Schreuder….Brache…Joe P…G VD Heever….Allende…Groom…P Grant…
Now for AC to just embrace a more expansive game plan…
11 Oct 2012, 11:01 am
At its most recent meeting in Johannesburg last week, the panel reconfirmed its commitment to the “Big Five” key priorities:
• All aspects of the tackle with particular emphasis to be placed on the tackler releasing the tackled player and rolling away and arriving players staying on their feet.
• Offside at the breakdown.
• Offside from kicks.
• All aspects of the scrum, particularly the engagement process and front-row binding.
• All aspects of the maul, particularly what constitutes legal maul defences.
Sitting on the IRB Match Official Selection Committee were John Jeffrey (chairperson), Tappe Henning, Lyndon Bray (both SANZAR), Donal Courtney, Clayton Thomas (both Six Nations) and Joel Jutge (IRB Referee Manager). The panel meets four times per year with all performances reviewed as part of the next round of international selections.
11 Oct 2012, 11:02 am
tut tut tut
if only….
11 Oct 2012, 11:03 am
@grant10-186: LOL hiyas Grant, don’t forget Jantjes has not been confirmed at the Stormers yet, or the Sharks for that matter
11 Oct 2012, 11:03 am
@grant10-186: Howzit Grant. Centre combo would still worry me and I would seriously look at investing in a no 9.
11 Oct 2012, 11:05 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-187: 90% of that is Richies fault……
11 Oct 2012, 11:05 am
@grant10-186: But thats a very good backline, lets hope for your sakes that AC actually has them running with the ball and not having them be only defensive brick walls lol
I think Cilliers will help the WP scrum a bit as thats been one very weak area. Well Rhodes too
11 Oct 2012, 11:07 am
To be fair Roberto has Habana ever been onside when chasing a kick?
11 Oct 2012, 11:09 am
# 189
His dad confirmed to Stephen Nell.Its done.You can get Peter Grant back now, please come and fetch him asap.
11 Oct 2012, 11:12 am
@Robzim-194: No thanks, would rather use Fred Zeilinga from our under 21′s, Kids a natural 10 with a good boot.
Also our under 189 Capt is Robert Du Preez jnr, very good 10, strong big 10
11 Oct 2012, 11:12 am
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE-191:
disgusting kiwis
11 Oct 2012, 11:12 am
@sharks_lover-195: under19 that is
11 Oct 2012, 11:16 am
i didnt have time to do the second half kiwi infringement review of the match but i can recall a number of instances in which all five of these ‘key priorities’ were commited in the nz red zone and absolutely nothing came of it.
this well after the ‘official team warning’ given to that classless scumbag captain.
a few of them should have been penalty tries or yellow/reds at the least.
11 Oct 2012, 11:19 am
#195
I heard about Fred, never saw him play. Grant will most likely still have a role to play for the Stormers, maybe as a place-kicking coach lol
11 Oct 2012, 11:23 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-198:
Get ypourself to a Shrink bakkies,
There is still time.
I do not wish to read about going berserk in a mall with an automatic paint gun.
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