Relegation threat forces Coetzee’s hand
10 Oct 2012
The possibility of WP dropping out of the Currie Cup Premier Division has contributed to the decision to push fatigued Springboks to play this Saturday.
Allister Coetzee was the Bok assistant coach between 2004 and 2007 before he linked up with the Stormers and Western Province in 2008. He is well aware of the manner in which rugby is administrated in South Africa, having been involved with the Boks and a provincial union, and knows how the contracting system is such that the provinces dictate how much rugby the Boks play over the course of a season.
On Wednesday, Coetzee explained his decision to include all seven returning Springboks in the starting line-up for the final Currie Cup league match against the Cheetahs.
Flanked by a visibly exhausted Jean de Villiers, Coetzee admitted that it was a not an ideal situation if one looked at it from a Bok perspective, but as a coach of a province that pays the players’ salaries, his hands were tied.
‘It’s the way the contracts work in this country, the players belong to the province,’ said Coetzee. ‘Unless there is a change to the structure, that is the way it’s going to be.’
WP are currently in third place on the Currie Cup log, but if they lose this weekend and the other two results go against them, they could finish in last position.
This would see them playing a promotion-relegation series against the Eastern Province Kings to determine who will feature in the 2013 Currie Cup.
It is therefore in WP’s interest to play all of their available Boks, no matter their state of fatigue. If there wasn’t such a risk of dropping down to the First Division, Coetzee may have given a few of the top players a much needed break.
‘If you look at what we are all facing, the reality of being relegated, well you have to have your Boks at your disposal,’ he said.
‘That’s what unions are going through right now, nobody wants to get relegated. If we were different position on the log, then maybe I wouldn’t have played all the Boks. Now we have to play our best team.’
It was thought at the beginning of the season that the Boks would be excused from the Currie Cup given their extensive workload in the Super Rugby competition and heavy Test schedule. But De Villiers suggested last week that the Boks would return for domestic duty at the conclusion of the Rugby Championship, and when he said it, you got the feeling that he wasn’t happy about it.
Coetzee confirmed on Wednesday that the thought process of using the Boks in the Currie Cup had changed recently because of the prospect of relegation.
Indeed, it is not only WP who have loaded their team with Boks. The Bulls have stacked their team with returning Boks and it’s likely that the Sharks will do the same when they name their side later in the week.
De Villiers is currently nursing a hamstring injury and will only train at WP’s captain’s run on Friday. It is a situation that highlights the faults of the South African system, and WP can’t be blamed for working within the given parameters.
If the South African system was similar to that of New Zealand, a country that centrally-contracts their players so that they are managed accordingly, they wouldn’t be in a position where a fatigue-related injury is a probability rather than a possibility.
De Villiers said that he wasn’t happy with the situation and, more damningly, suggested it wasn’t likely to change. It’s the rugby player’s lot in South Africa to simply get on with it.
‘It’s not really relevant what the players feel, it’s a decision that the administrators need to make,’ he said. ‘When you are needed, you need to step up. As long as the decision lies with the unions, it doesn’t matter what we as players feel.
‘We might gain more from something like central-contracting,’ admitted De Villiers. ‘Maybe we need to sit down and come up with a model that works for everyone.’
By Jon Cardinelli
251 Comments
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11 Oct 2012, 11:26 am
@cane-200:
Oooops.
That should read………………………………….”I do not wish to read about YOU going berserk ………”
(I had an itchy trigger finger).
11 Oct 2012, 11:47 am
@cane-201: LOL
Shooting pink and blue ‘ paint bullets ‘
11 Oct 2012, 11:51 am
@cane-201:
@grant10-202:
hehe
chops of a feather always flock together..
11 Oct 2012, 11:56 am
if i was to ever suffer the misfortune of going postal i would target the beaches of camps bay (specifically looking for guys with beer boeps and skinny legs in bright yellow budgie smugglers) or failing that the cape all black supporters official clubhouse or the bar they frequent…
11 Oct 2012, 11:58 am
@grant10-202:
I’m sure bakkies looks very masculine in his pink lace panties, hand on his weapon.
11 Oct 2012, 12:01 pm
‘Flanked by a visibly exhausted De Villiers’
I’m actually concerned about Jean and have been for a while. I get the sense that he is more mentally fatigued than anything else.
Jean is an unusually talented fellow that needs to be unshackled; rock-hard place scenario I guess. He has been promoted to skipper but it seems more a burden than a joy, at least from where I’m sitting…
11 Oct 2012, 12:01 pm
@cane-205: LOL
Bakkies stalking the Camps Bay and Clifton beaches….paint gun in hand…classic…
11 Oct 2012, 12:02 pm
Some good news…
Nizaam Carr came through his first on field session with flying colors this morning…
11 Oct 2012, 12:05 pm
@rangerman-180: Taute will not lift JDJ at centre, Taute is there to replace the dis-interested Pietersen at fullback.
11 Oct 2012, 12:06 pm
11 Oct 2012, 12:07 pm
@grant10-208:
that’s what your celebrating lately..?..
11 Oct 2012, 12:09 pm
@NZINCHINA-183: ” Taute got a good schooling by Nonu and Smith.”, thats an understatement if ever there was one, Taute got a right-royal-rogering from the AB’s, but the fact that your average Bok fans aren’t up in arms goes to show how rugby is viewed in this country and why we are so behind the AB’s
11 Oct 2012, 12:11 pm
never thought WP was a great place for flyhalfs, well not in my lifetime anyway.
Hell, even joel stransky played his best rugby everywhere else except newlands.
a very logical choice by jantjies but this might be one of those occassions where logic does not apply.
some very decent looking rugby squads next season, expect to see the big SA sides beating each other up home and away and the antipodeans hovering like hyenas there to pick up the scraps the following weekend.
kak format
11 Oct 2012, 12:12 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-211: Carr is a good oke….big future imo….
11 Oct 2012, 12:14 pm
@XhosaKid-212:
look pal…nobody except you rates Dejong.
sorry, get over it.
maybe he should go play in France? If anyone would make him an offer.
oh,the irony of it all….
11 Oct 2012, 12:16 pm
@grant10-214:
yeah i’m just kidding
good luck to him
11 Oct 2012, 12:19 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-215: JDJ is class….
Taute will play at 15 for Stormers….
Stormers best backline performances were when JDJ and J Fourie were at 12 and 13….
This year the backs looked best with JDJ at 12 and Habana at 13….
imo
11 Oct 2012, 12:19 pm
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE-184: I dunno Kwagga, Burger has been a world class player for a number of years. When you think Springbok rugby you think of players such as Habana, Burger, Smit and Matfield. I don’t think iconic is an inaccurate description.
11 Oct 2012, 12:19 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-215: Well idiots like you get proven wrong time and time again, but you keep coming for more. JDJ’s record speaks for itself at Bok level, just like Taute’s introduction at Bok Level speak for itself, he got molested!!!, now compare Taute’s molestation against JDJ’s debut against the BIGGEST centre in international rugby Jamie Roberts away from home noggal.
You know fokkol about rugby, which is a real shame considering its the only sport you purport to know. It must real k@k being you.
11 Oct 2012, 12:23 pm
@grant10-217: Don’t bother talking rugby with the likes of Brigadier, they are bigoted idiots who are no different to the ones I encounter when I go drinking in my local township tavern. The later bigots reckon Andile Jali is better than Steven Pienaar, regardless of evidence which shows them up.
11 Oct 2012, 12:39 pm
@XhosaKid-219:
predictable as ever. Dejong cant pass, thats a real issue for a center.
that is not my fault by the way. Wayne Julies and solly tybilka’s records for the boks also speak for themselves at bok level. They are nonetheless no devilliers or skalk burger.
@grant10-217:
which is not saying much as the stormers couldn’t get 1 4try bonus point win together.
11 Oct 2012, 12:46 pm
@XhosaKid-220:
xhosakid, I know you think you have the sense of entitlement to rugby knowlege and itellectual opinion…but that is far from the truth.
what you do have without a doubt, is a very small brain, splinterdick of a willey and 2 lopsided shoulders due to the tree you carry on the one.
unfortunately….not every oke will fall over themselves about a nonwhite rugby player or even a white player for that matter.
11 Oct 2012, 12:46 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-221: JDJ is a very good 13….or 12…
Defensively 1 of the best around……and deserves to play ahead of JDV at 13 for Boks imo.
In fact a midfield combo of F Steyn and JDJ may be a very exciting 1….
You have some strange resentment to JDJ for some reason?
11 Oct 2012, 12:56 pm
@grant10-223:
i just don’t think he is particularly very good which is not to say that he is bad.
but that is just my opinion, and you can use it or not.
and what does my opinion count for anyway, I would have had Rob Eberson or Tim Whitehead playing 13 for the boks.
So there you go, that’s why I am not the coach.
But youngsters can improve their game so there is no reason why jdj can’t get better and change perceptions the way other players do every season.
11 Oct 2012, 13:06 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-224:
for the record I like seeing a ball playing intelligent player at 13 in my ideal senario. Every SA supporter always hammers our 12′s for being crashball specialists but in all reality our 13′s are far worse. I’ll even include Jaque Fourie in this example as well, for all his strenghs I cannot remember him making a pass. Think back to his try in the 2nd test at loftus against the british lions. Had the roles been reversed with him having to make the quick pass to the player outside him…..do you think he would have made it? I think not, he would have stepped inside and killed the opportunity. Marius Joubert before him also never passed the ball. It’s possibly an insight into why our inside backs always throw long passes to the outside skipping the 13…….they just dont trust the 13 to make the simple pass or draw the man and pass.
11 Oct 2012, 13:26 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-224: So JDJ must change self-induced misconceptions from bigots like you, whereas guys like Taute ( White Afrikaners) must prove that they are shyyt centres before getting the chop?, why the double standards?, or you so up the assss that you don’t even realize the double standards you have just set.
11 Oct 2012, 13:33 pm
@Robzim-199: LOL Rob, Fred is an excellent 10, has been very good this year for our under21′s
11 Oct 2012, 13:35 pm
@grant10-223: watch Francois Steyn and Jordaan as a combo next year, with Lambie at 10 i think some exciting times ahead, also the new Scrummy Reinach is showing class of note
11 Oct 2012, 13:40 pm
WP with the new signed players would surely be a far stronger side Grant, I am not sure i would agree with your earlier prediction that the Sharks would be the South African favourites next year.
I just did an article on RT and took a look at the player depth and situation for next year, and the player situation is much the same as this year accept for a few youngsters comming through.
But with youngsters the problem is even though they are super talented they lack experience which breaks down on consistency
11 Oct 2012, 13:44 pm
@XhosaKid-226:
whatever dude, one can only wonder how you take my opinion on jdj as an opinion on taute.
for the record, I do not have an opinion on taute,I have not seen that much of him, he was a bolter to start off with who did okay in his first test and got owed in his second. If that is the trend, doubt he’ll see many more games so there is nothing to worry about really, is there?
11 Oct 2012, 13:48 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-230:
oh, and before you question why taute leapfrogged jdj.
errm, maybe you should apply that selfsame logic to how jdj earned his first cap…or even worse…Earl “Can’t get a contract can’t hold a job” Rose.
it is the coaches perogative to rate who he chooses.
11 Oct 2012, 13:53 pm
Brig to be fair not that many of your backs can pass.
11 Oct 2012, 13:55 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-230: He’s just feeding the chips on his shoulders. Happens all the time. Someone mentions Taute and he starts blabbering about De Jongh, and vice versa. It’s completely involuntary – he can’t control it at all.
11 Oct 2012, 14:02 pm
@NZINCHINA-232:
it’s true, we have a few…but they never feature nationally.
even look at that young Rhule kid coming through with the cheetahs. Played 13 against the bulls, got plenty of ball has plenty of pace with a great step and is elusive. Can’t remember him passing once, same for mapoe playing at 13. Has everything except the pass.Almost all of our 13′s really.
Maybe describing the issue as “a pass” is not entirely correct.
possibly a better description of our 13′s would be “the lack of desire to keep the ball alive and off the floor unless it is the very last option”. The setting up of the ruck should be the 13′s ( in my opinion) very last option in his playbook.
11 Oct 2012, 14:02 pm
@katman-233: aint that a fact, and if you dont agree with him ur a biggot and racist and blah blah farking Blah, BUt he aint alone. he got a few chums that are the same in here,
11 Oct 2012, 14:06 pm
Some ganging-up going on here I see
11 Oct 2012, 14:07 pm
Brig so true that’s why with JDV there nothing much is going to happen in the Bokke back department, is this not ringing alarm bells in SA rugby or are people still clinging to the belief that the Bokke forwards will demolish everything in front of them?
11 Oct 2012, 14:08 pm
@Dawn-236: You a shop steward?
11 Oct 2012, 14:11 pm
@katman-238:
Natuurlik
11 Oct 2012, 14:12 pm
@NZINCHINA-237:
China
At your casa in China do you have a shrine to the All Blacks?
11 Oct 2012, 14:17 pm
Stormers also be in the running SL…..but the draw is a tough 1 and I do feel the Sharks brand of rugby is far superior…..maybe Taute and Jantjes will bring some Mitchell / Spencer ideas to the CT party……I hope so….
Also Stormers lack the fetcher…..and will need to get the crocked fit and well….
Also glad with the Cilliers and Rhodes acquisitions….
Hope springs eternal….
11 Oct 2012, 14:29 pm
Hello Dawn, no.
11 Oct 2012, 14:43 pm
@NZINCHINA-242:
I’m very surprised
11 Oct 2012, 14:44 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-234:
I believe that setting up a ruck should be the last option of all the backline players.
11 Oct 2012, 14:50 pm
Why is that?
11 Oct 2012, 14:52 pm
@Dawn-240:
yes,
but he stuck it right up his arse and cant get it out again.
11 Oct 2012, 15:02 pm
Hello Bakkies, good to see you’ve calmed down it was touch and go there for a while. No shrine but I’m looking forward to Ritchie’s men breaking the world record that would be very special.The RC was not that challenging this year but I’m sure next year it will be more competitive, have you read Ritchie’s book yet?
11 Oct 2012, 15:11 pm
groete, china
you must be farking with me, right? reechee macaw’s book..?.. i quite literally would stick an ab shrine up my own arse before i read a book by any kiwi rugby person… let alone one by that filthy scumbag.
it can’t be selling very well, even in nz..?.. because it certainly is not doing the rounds or on anyone’s lips.
11 Oct 2012, 15:17 pm
@NZINCHINA-247:
Give him a chance. He hasn’t finished “50 Shades of Grey, yet.
11 Oct 2012, 15:27 pm
Bakkies it’s flying out the door as you’d expect, some very interesting stuff in there re Deans etc.
David he he
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