Bryce hangs up whistle
16 Oct 2012
New Zealand referee Bryce Lawrence has retired after officiating his 200th first-class match.
Lawrence, who faced mass criticism from the South African rugby fraternity after his poor performance during the Wallabies’ victory over the Springboks in the 2011 World Cup quarter-finals, became the fourth Kiwi official to reach the 200-match mark. He follows Paddy O’Brien (221 matches), Paul Honiss (220) and Steve Walsh (210).
Lawrence also refereed 25 Tests and 60 Super Rugby games.
He told the Bay of Plenty Times that he was forced into retirement because of the threats he received after the World Cup.
‘It got pretty bad,’ said Lawrence. \Not really threats on my family as such, there was a concern, but it was mainly aimed at me through social media. On Facebook they launched a ‘get rid of Bryce Lawrence’ site and it was pretty nasty.
‘That was absolutely the reason for my career change. I got told at the end of the World Cup that I would have a break from Test rugby for the Six Nations and I could totally accept that as there has to be a consequence for poor performance.
‘I was told I would be brought back in the middle of this year, as I was ranked in the top three or four referees in the world. But because of the political reaction from rugby unions like Australia and South Africa behind the scenes, they dropped me.
‘Sanzar used me but not in South Africa, so eventually they said it was getting tough having you in the draw, because we have to keep making changes to keep you in the system when you are not going to South Africa, so see you later. So I knew I was not able to referee at the level I needed to be re-contracted, really – all because of that one game.’
Lawrence also admitted that there was outside influence going into the Wallabies-Springbok quarter-final clash.
‘I went into the game knowing it was a massive match and I didn’t want to overly influence the outcome and that was in the back of my mind. The way that transpired was I didn’t make decisions and if I had my time again I would just go out there and do what I normally do, which is just referee and back myself.
‘I had four really good games at the World Cup and then I had that. I had outside pressure from pretty senior people from rugby countries behind the scenes that really created my mindset of lacking confidence to deliver what I normally do.
‘There was some pretty nasty political stuff going on about that appointment. I refereed Australia versus Ireland and Ireland had won but behind the scenes guys like [Australian CEO] John O’Neill were kicking up a massive stink. I knew a bit about that and it was enough to affect me, and it probably made me freeze on the biggest stage.’
Lawrence take on a new post as the NZRU High Performance referee reviewer.
Kiwi referees Vinny Munro and Keith Brown will also retire at the end of the New Zealand Cup.
576 Comments
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16 Oct 2012, 19:06 pm
@ahasaid theclown-188:
Your mommy never taught you big boy language.
16 Oct 2012, 19:10 pm
At least this cheating scum will never be in charge of a match again.
Bastar.d is so bent he probably prays under a nom de plume.
16 Oct 2012, 19:58 pm
RWC2011 should be declared null & void based on the confession of this p#*s
16 Oct 2012, 20:27 pm
@NZINCHINA-50: China, I agree. SA barely beat Wales, and could have lost to Samoa (I was at both games, the Wales game in particular was very entertaining for a neutral).
How that translates to a “red hot vein of form” as per one of the poster’s above I don’t know!
Puff’s long analysis at post 34 is particularly entertaining – he/she says:
“Considering how close France pushed the ABs, it would have been interesting to watch an AB-Bok final.”
But Puff, if you actually followed the World Cup, you would realise that IF you had beaten Aus, you would have played the AB’s in the Semi.
In that Semi, the AB’s played one of the most complete games of rugby I have seen for many years. They annhialated the Aussies. Contributing to that outcome were a fully fit Piri (whereas he played the final with a bad abductor strain) and an on fire Aaron Cruden for the whole game. Plus Kaino was on fire, whereas in the final the toll of carrying two injured players in Read and McCaw finally caught up with him.
The All Blacks had no fear of playing the Boks in the Semi, actually Graham Henry would have preferred that given the banana skin the Aussies have been for us at the World Cup. If we repeated the form we showed against the Aussies, we would have wiped the floor with the Boks.
To explain this again for the benefit of the wider audience. The Saffa supporters on this site go on and on about how bad we were in the final, and that they could have beaten us when the French couldn’t quite do it. Irrelevant. The Boks would have played us in the Semi, so the Saffas need to look at how we played that day and also the difference in fitness of key personnel particularly Piri and Cruden.
I followed all the Bok games extremely closely including going to three of them, and there was NOTHING in the Bok performances that suggested they could beat us.
16 Oct 2012, 20:35 pm
@rangerman-98: Ranger, actually the main complaint Kiwis have about Bryce is that he went 50 mins of the game without awarding a penalty against the French, when they were blatantly infringing at the ruck and offside right in front of his eyes. EXACTLY the same issue as Bryce in 2011. The cause of it is the same as well – referees who froze on the big stage and were too gutless to give kickable penalties to the team behind on the scoreboad but dominating territory and possession.
16 Oct 2012, 20:56 pm
@corporal punishment-205: no no no no no no Barnes was the most competent ref in the world for the way he handled that quarter final, as so many told us after 2007..
NZ should have kicked the drop goal, Barnes was in no way responsible..
The fact Bryce returned a massive dose of karma to those who gleefully lived off of Barnes ineptitude for four years really was the epitome of sweet sweet justice..
couldnt happen to a nicer bunch really.
Well done Sir Bryce, you definitely got the jaapies, and I for one salute the way in which you did it… if they had caught the ball in the backline on more than one occassion, they would have won the game, but of course, thay are never to blame for their own failings..
its why their rugby is third rate, always something else besides the players fault..
got to love our neanderthal brothers, they are slowly lifting their knuckles from off the floor..
16 Oct 2012, 20:59 pm
Shoulda coulda woulda.
Not relevant.
Bryce is gone.
That’s all that matters.
16 Oct 2012, 21:01 pm
@corporal punishment-204: You guys are seeing conspiracies where none existed. Bryce has admitted that he was affected by the complaints John O’Neill was making about his appointment to ref this game. This isn’t evidence of cheating, it is only evidence that Lawrence was a bad referree.
Bryce deserves some respect for the fact he has been prepared to admit publically that he reffed badly, and that he has publically given the reason why. Most people simply wouldn’t do this.
Regardless of Bryce’s reffering, you would have easily won that match if you had played even slightly better than you did. As it is, you played pretty poorly, and left yourself open to be the victim of a bad referring performance. You’ve only got yourself to blame for that, ditto the AB’s in 2007.
One further point. The Aussis have a LONG history of going out of their way to influence referrees (and opposition teams! think the 1991 WC final when they suckered England into trying to run the ball) through the press and through private pressure. Look at Bob Dwyer with his conveniently edited tape of All Black “cheating” published for referree’s benefit. Look at the pressure they put on the refs in the Lions tour in 2001, after they lost the first game.
The Aussies do this because (a) they are not good enough in the forwards to compete with SA, NZ and England, and (b) they are smart enough to devise a strategy to neutralise this disadvantage (manipulating refs).
Why do you think that the Aussies have such a good record against you over the last 5 years, despite the fact your pack is on any given day 10-20% better than theirs, which should be a decisive victory in international rugby?
Honestly, you have allowed your hatred (and I don’t think that is a misdescription) of the All Blacks to cloud your judgement.
John O’Neill has shafted the All Blacks many times over – re competition formats, re money, re hosting rights, re rule changes, re referring. He is a master manipulator. Do we Kiwi’s hate him? Yes, but we have a grudging respect for what he has managed to achieve for Aussie rugby. They would have been a laughing stock over the last 15 years without his cunning.
16 Oct 2012, 21:04 pm
@stormersboy-207: Agree. Frankly, he was embarrassing. I also don’t like Steve Walsh, but the Aussies have him now.
16 Oct 2012, 21:04 pm
He knew he’d stuffed up. Only thing is it took him months to admit it.
So he took a long walk off a short plank.
Good decision.
16 Oct 2012, 21:08 pm
ahh. dusky the d.utchman ranting on. beautiful.
SA had plenty of chances to win that match. your backs poor passing (gees, that has still let you guys down even in this years TRC) skills blowing tries with the goal line wide open.
hahahaha. the victim mentality is alive and strong in the republic, must be because there is so many of them.
16 Oct 2012, 21:08 pm
@I am a stormer-210: I guess he thought it would blow over, as it did for Wayne Barnes. However, Paddy came out and backed Barnes to the hilt, and Kiwi bloggers whilst feral didn’t manage to maintain the level of pressure on Barnes that Bok supporters have on Bryce.
I guess the other thing is that Barnes wasn’t a Super 15 or Tri Nations referree, so he didn’t have any immediate pressure to referree back in this part of the world. If he had, he may have had to walk the plank as well because some doos in NZ would probably have assaulted him.
16 Oct 2012, 21:12 pm
@corporal punishment-208: He refers to “pretty senior people from rugby countries”. More than one person from more than one country. Now, who else could have benefited from this other than Aus?
16 Oct 2012, 21:13 pm
@poppa69-211: Hi Poppa. It’s been a bit feral on here lately – we need a good honest test match to get things back on the straight and narrow.
I think your point is that the 2007 exit of the AB’s and the 2011 exits of the Boks were identical, yes? Both teams suffered shocking referring, but both teams could have won it if they’d played a bit better.
We can talk about referring conspiracies just as the SA supporters are here. But it is irrelevant – we both lost and no amount of whining is going to change the result.
16 Oct 2012, 21:15 pm
“Yes, but we have a grudging respect for what he has managed to achieve for Aussie rugby. They would have been a laughing stock over the last 15 years without his cunning.”
You respect Aus, although their achievements are due to dishonesty. How ironic.
Do not expect the same from us towards you.
16 Oct 2012, 21:16 pm
@Horings-213: I would like him to clarify that statement. However, your presumption that the Kiwi’s would benefit from a SA exit is not one that is shared by anyone i know in NZ. In fact, most rugby supporters had a strong preference for playing South Africa because we were far more confident of beating the Boks than the Aussies.
This is the fatal flaw in all of the conspiracy theories on this site.
16 Oct 2012, 21:18 pm
@AssassinWP-203:
Dont be silly.
All RWCs would be canceled if everyone got there way cos of a ref .
@I am a stormer-210:
He admitted it not long after. Now it seems all this Kiwi bashing about complaining about Barnes is nothing to what SA have done.
Some of you people are terrible. Threatening his family and all.
Facebook threats and making pages.
You guys lost a game of rugby, should have been beaten by Wales and Samoa, lucky to even be in that game. Had over 70% possession and territory yet that was not good enough.
End off
16 Oct 2012, 21:18 pm
@Horings-215: Horings, I never said the Aussies cheated. The behaviour that O’Neill displayed is distasteful, but it is the reality of professional sport and business. There is no doubt that the NZRU and SARU engage in the same behaviour, but the reality is we are nowhere near as good at it as John O’Neill was.
16 Oct 2012, 21:19 pm
@corporal punishment-216: Ok, if not NZ, who then? Greame Henry himself said the other day on Reunion that SA was their biggest rival in his tenure and we were back to our best team for the first time since 2009.
16 Oct 2012, 21:20 pm
@corporal punishment-216:
Spot on.
We had the Boks number but Ozzie proved they could beat us that year.
Give me the Boks any day during that RWC. I was more worried about France and Ozzie.
16 Oct 2012, 21:22 pm
@corporal punishment-214: no, they werent identical to our saffa brethren… they think w3e are complaining about 07 because of one forward pass, not the fact France were never penalised for 60 minutes, although they were bklatantly offsides for the majority of the time..
its different because the result kncoked us out , ROBBING US OF A CHANCE OF COMPETING FOR THE WC, but its somehow much different..
the fact they cant see the similarities between 2007 and 2011 tells you all you need to know about Saffas… I dont think Ive met one yet who will actually stand up and say that NZ were robbed in 07, apparently Barnes was the best ref in the world after that..
well, now the shoes on the other foot they 2whinge like the little fcken girls they are. I find it hilarious, and this thread should be bathed in gold for all posterity, as it highlights how corrupt and ignorant Saffas are..
How many times did the SA backs in that 1/4 final drop the ball with an open line? I can recall at least 2 times, it may have been more.. Why didnt they “go for the dropkick”
no amount of their acrid tears will change the result, and I love it that the japies are crying so, couldnt happen to a nicer bunch of fckwits..
16 Oct 2012, 21:23 pm
@corporal punishment-212:
All teams right now have a dossier on the manner in which every ref they come across interprets the laws of the game. Which is only natural and the professional way to do it. But each ref insists on blowing the breakdown area slightly differently. And on that famous day, the Boks knew that Bryce was in for a shocker from the word go. And it just got worse. And yes, the Boks did make mistakes along the way that should’ve put the Aussies away regardless of the nightmare Bryce was having.
Oh, did you see Paddy’s son is on the scene?
Making his debut at the Hong Kong sevens.
As a kossie. A kiwi aussie.
16 Oct 2012, 21:23 pm
@Hurricane-217: Difference is this is the first ref admitting pressure from above that contributed to his failures.
“Some of you people are terrible. Threatening his family and all”
Death threats outrage refs chief.
The International Rugby Board has defended referee Wayne Barnes after he received death threats in the wake of New Zealand’s surprise World Cup exit.
Barnes sent Luke McAlister to the sin-bin and missed a forward pass in the lead-up to France’s match-winning try as the All Blacks lost 20-18.
He has been subjected to personal abuse and death threats on internet sites.
16 Oct 2012, 21:26 pm
@Horings-219: Graham Henry said that traditionally South Africa were our biggest rival and that for this reason this was the team he most wanted to beat. However, he also said that the Bok team had declined since 2009 due to age, and this was good for the AB’s.
If you are going to qoute Graham on this issue, you need to read his book. He talks a great deal about SA, and the huge respect he had for you particularly because he had grown up on that traditional rivalry. However, from 2010 onwards he was confident the AB’s had the advantage over the Boks.
In his book he says he personally would have preferred to play the Boks in the semi final, rather than Aussie. His felt this way because he thought it was the most fitting match, the biggest rivalry etc.
On the other hand, he said the players all wanted to play Australia, again because that was who they personally felt was the All Black’s greatest rival.
I.e. it is very clear in Henry’s book that the only focus the AB’s had was playing their greatest rival – NOT PLAYING THE EASIEST TEAM!
So while you are correct that Graham personally felt SA were our biggest rival, this had nothing to do with who we thought was going to be the hardest to beat.
16 Oct 2012, 21:26 pm
if we want to talk corruption at World Cups, then I guess we need to go back to the first incidence of it, and surprise surprise, it started with SA’s inclusion in the 95 model..
gold watches indeed…
in 87 and 91 there was no spectre at all of corruption, coincidence? I think not..
and yes, SA were invited to the 87 world cup, but declined..
knew they couldnt compete..
16 Oct 2012, 21:30 pm
@Hurricane-220: Hurri, you are absolutely right. The NZ public were sh*tting themselves about playing Aussie in the semi, and I am sure the All Black management were too. The SA view that we manufactured outcomes to give us a game against a team WE HAVE NEVER BEATEN AT A WORLD CUP!!!! is so deluded, it is hard to know how to discuss the proposition with them. The idea comes from a parallel universe, where normal logic doesn’t apply!
16 Oct 2012, 21:31 pm
@poppa69-225:
Correction.
We were invited to the 1991 World Cup after our re-admission to international rugby. But the draw had already been done by the IRB. And they couldn’t accomodate us.
Tough titty South Africa.
16 Oct 2012, 21:31 pm
@Hurricane-217:
How do those threats compare@I am a stormer-222:
A crooked **** just like his daddy.
Hang on isn’t his daddy involved in the sevens set up?
Ja well no fine.
16 Oct 2012, 21:32 pm
@poppa69-225: Pops, I have never heard that before – that SA were invited to the 87 WC. I thought the Boks were banned from international rugby in that period?
16 Oct 2012, 21:32 pm
@poppa69-225: Please tell us of this corruption. Does the words “I had outside pressure from pretty senior people from rugby countries” occur in anyone’s statements in 1995. Well it does in 2011.
16 Oct 2012, 21:32 pm
@Dusky-31:
See this is the difference between civilized countries and South Africa.
We complainied about Barnes….nowhere like you guys have with Bryce and now still promoting violence against a guy that has retired due to disgusting thugs like yourself.
Your rugby is all about who the best thug is…….you call it an enforcer, we call it a dirty player. Your fans want to bash Bryce and his family, you call it vengence we call it pathetic and cowardly.
Barnes a couple of years later came to NZ and reffed, nothing happened to him, in fact he said he had no problems at all. Bryce on the other hand knew going to SA and not only Bryce but world rugby knew he would be harmed….. Some of you once again gave SA another bad mark.
16 Oct 2012, 21:34 pm
@Hurricane-231: Do I need to copy this again?
Death threats outrage refs chief.
The International Rugby Board has defended referee Wayne Barnes after he received death threats in the wake of New Zealand’s surprise World Cup exit.
Barnes sent Luke McAlister to the sin-bin and missed a forward pass in the lead-up to France’s match-winning try as the All Blacks lost 20-18.
He has been subjected to personal abuse and death threats on internet sites.
16 Oct 2012, 21:35 pm
@Horings-223:
You think it was 1 forward pass and a sin binning?
Yeah i admit, we gave Barnes alot of **** but he still found it safe to go to NZ.
We all know on a good day SA isnt the safest place in the world and if most the population want to kill you then it need to be taken seriously.
16 Oct 2012, 21:35 pm
@Hurricane-217:
Bullshit.
You have conveniently forgotten about the death threats made by kiwis to old Barnsey.
You are as one eyed as your refs.
16 Oct 2012, 21:35 pm
@corporal punishment-224:
When Kitch Christie was Bok coach for the WC in 1995, his mantra was if you want to be the best, then you have to beat the best. No matter in which order they come at you. That to me, is what World Cups are all about in a knock-out competition.
16 Oct 2012, 21:35 pm
@corporal punishment-214:
Punisher……..that loss back in 2007 v France was a bitter pill to swallow, not only because of Wayne Barnes, but as you rightly pointed out if only “they’d played a bit better ” fact is, the Abs choked, the same can be said of the Boks performance in 2011 v Australia.
As for Bryce, he has done the right thing. We can’t have a Nz ref who is damaged goods control big games.
16 Oct 2012, 21:37 pm
@Hurricane-233: Barnes did not have “outside pressure from pretty senior people from rugby countries”.
16 Oct 2012, 21:37 pm
@ Rangerman Lasso trap as in similar to snare, NO NO NO.
Very against it, cage trapping is safer for animal and human. Lasso method is just cheap and quick and easy to set up.
16 Oct 2012, 21:37 pm
@Te Rangatira-236: Do you have any NZ refs left?
16 Oct 2012, 21:38 pm
@Te Rangatira-236: Seems they are not very good at being fair, while SA refs are by far the world leaders.
16 Oct 2012, 21:38 pm
@Horings-232:
don’t be an idiot, i only just read your first comment in # 223
16 Oct 2012, 21:39 pm
@corporal punishment-224: BTW, if the AB’s had been concerned about avoiding the Boks, all they would have needed to do was to throw one of their pool matches.
This is clearly what the French did, if you compare their selections and level of effort in the pool match against the AB’s vs their team and effort in the final.
No need for pressure on referrees, no need to hope that the Boks would botch easy try scoring opportunities
The culture of the AB’s is, however, to man up to every challenge, and to play and beat the best at ever opportunity. It would be anathma to the AB’s to seek an easier route to a WC final. The AB’s want to be the best, and they want to achieve that by beating the best of the rest.
16 Oct 2012, 21:42 pm
@corporal punishment-242: Why were OFFICIALS from different COUTNRIES then needed to influence the ref.
16 Oct 2012, 21:44 pm
@gunther-228:
A threat is a threat.
I know us kiwis went over the top. But you clowns deny that you have done any worse. Fact is Barnes did not retire. He still felt safe at home and touring NZ.
IF SA were knocked out of the RWC 2007 due to Barnes…he would also have quit.
Seems is that no refs are good enough for the Boks. Even your own refs get called useless and cheats, seen it all on here.
16 Oct 2012, 21:44 pm
@Hurricane-233:
South Africa isn’t the safest place in which to travel?
Don’t be such a big girl now.
We continue to host major sporting events.
There’s one major cricket event happening right now.
Switch on the TV and go through the channels!
16 Oct 2012, 21:46 pm
@I am a stormer-235: Stormer, I agree, and that is the attitude of the AB’s (and what makes us a great side IMO).
I loved the attitude that Kitch and Mackintosh had. One of my favourite rugby memories is Mack displaying a mounted Springbok head on tele when the team arrived in NZ in 1994, and saying that the trophy would be played for by every provincial team to play the Boks, and would be awarded to the first provincial team to beat the Boks.
I.e. he was saying, we are the Springboks, we are great and we expect to beat every one of you, but if someone is good enough to beat us we will give you this trophy as a mark of respect.
It added a huge amount of interest and tension to the provincial matches, and undoutably motivated Mack’s opposition! But that was the thing, the Boks were challenging their opposition to bring their very best, try their very hardest, and the Boks wanted that and expected to beat it.
Loved it.
16 Oct 2012, 21:47 pm
@Hurricane-244: Probably because we are used to quite a high standard of refereeing. I mean we had Watson, Kaplan and now have Joubert. You had Paddy, a drunk and a cheat. Oh sorry that applies to Paddy as well.
16 Oct 2012, 21:47 pm
horings
how do you like your gold watch? let’s sweep water off the pitch because if we lose the host nation (us) will be out.
the reffing in the 95 final.
I rest my case.
16 Oct 2012, 21:48 pm
@corporal punishment-242:
Ozzie were the 3 nations champs….that alone is a mini world cup when you look at the teams playing for it.
Its strange how acouple on here pointed out that the Boks beat NZ on NZ soil twice in like 4 years which proves we were worried about the boks….lol dream on.
Ozzie beat us as well and they had the 3 nations champs. They were the biggest threat to our RWC success. Some of these guys do not get it.
16 Oct 2012, 21:50 pm
Boks would have taken AB’s in semi.. I reckon deep down AB’s were afraid of Boks for semi’s and Aussie was a far easier target .. less intimidating and physical than SA.. so AB’s preferred to play Aussie than SA for semi.. and Bryce probably had instructions or pressure to swing it in that direction due in part to his handling of the Ireland – Aussie game he bowed to the pressure from O’Niell and others as well as the presiding sentimental pressure to give AB’s the easier route to final and steered SA out of the semi.. and I reckon both Henry and McCaw heaved a huge sigh of relief when the final whistle blew and Aussie were through and not SA.
But that is as the deed got done.. same as Barnes put NZ out in Cardiff, Bryce put SA out in Wellington and nothing going to change anything by crying over all that spilled milk now.
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