Rugby fans must move with the times
17 Oct 2012
JON CARDINELLI writes that supporters and reporters pushing for an out-and-out attacking philosophy have zero appreciation for the current laws and trends.
You cannot go to a Stormers or Western Province press conference nowadays without hearing the same questions being asked. ‘When is the ball going to get to the wings? Why aren’t we playing rugby like the great Province team of the 1980s?’
Allister Coetzee had fewer grey hairs when he first started as head coach. Every week since he’s had to listen to ignorant and misinformed reporters whining about running rugby. He’s also had to endure criticism and accusations that the Cape side play a boring brand.
Springbok and WP captain Jean de Villiers looked exhausted when he faced the media last week, and perhaps that’s what caused him to forget protocol when answering this question for the umpteenth time.
De Villiers pointed to the Super Rugby competition as an example, where the Stormers had finished top of the 16-team league. Why, De Villiers asked, would they change a game plan that allowed them to win the South African conference? Indeed, it was just a week or so before De Villiers’s return that an experimental and more attacking approach had cost WP in a Currie Cup match.
The Stormers and WP are not the only teams to be criticised in this manner.
Bok coach Heyneke Meyer’s game plan is considered by many to be overly conservative. I’ve watched Meyer closely when he’s been asked about the game plan, I’ve seen him roll his eyes. The reporters have asked him, they’ve begged him, to change tact. Why oh why, they pleaded, couldn’t the Boks play attacking rugby like the All Blacks?
These people haven’t got a clue.
The All Blacks won all six of their Rugby Championship matches, and it was before that final match at Soccer City when Meyer made special mention of the New Zealanders’ defence. Their record in this year’s tournament will show that they’re the best defensive side by some distance, having conceded just six tries. After the game at the Calabash, Meyer again paid tribute to that defence, as well as the game management of flyhalf Dan Carter.
The All Blacks may be the finest attacking team on the planet, but their defence and kicking game has been the bedrock of their success. This has allowed them to win the 2011 World Cup, as well as the 2012 Rugby Championship, and has put them into a position to break the record for the most consecutive Test victories.
The All Blacks conceded one try per game in the Rugby Championship. The tournament average was 1.83. It’s clear the All Blacks were a cut above in this department, but when you compare this stat to the averages of lesser competitions, it confirms that defences are harder to crack at the elite level.
The defence may be weaker as you drop down the tiers of competition, but the common denominator is that the best defensive teams in the respective tournaments either go on to top the log or win a trophy. It wasn’t a surprise to see the best defensive teams finishing in the top six of the Super Rugby league. The round robin phase of the Currie Cup recently concluded, and wouldn’t you know it, the teams with the best defensive records have advanced to the play-offs.
One level down, and it is the Eastern Province Kings who have topped the First Division log, their unbeaten record closely correlated with defensive stats that read 27 tries conceded in 14 matches, 19 tries fewer than the second-placed Pumas.
Coincidence? I think not.
What rugby supporters need to understand is that the current law set prescribes an outstanding defence and kicking game as the key ingredients to any title surge. There may be instances where a team doesn’t execute effectively on the day, as has been the case for a few Cape teams over the past few seasons, but that doesn’t mean that the game plan is at fault.
The fact that teams like the All Blacks and the Sharks have enjoyed such try-scoring success shouldn’t detract from their defensive strengths. The Sharks started to come right towards the end of the Super Rugby competition when they embraced a balanced approach (they altered their previous strategy which had placed too much emphasis on attack). In the 2012 Currie Cup, they have finished the league in first place, having scored the most tries and conceded the fewest.
If you can wrap your head around these trends, you will realise why the Bok game plan is not flawed. I’m not saying the Boks are exempt from criticism, but rather that they should be judged and scrutinised within this framework.
Does Meyer have the right personnel for this game plan? Are the players executing the game plan efficiently? These are the questions the intelligent rugby supporter should be asking, not when the Boks, WP or the Bulls are going to start running the ball from their own tryline.
If you don’t like the way the game is played nowadays, by all means channel your aggression into a strongly worded letter to the IRB. The world’s coaches and players develop their game plans according to the laws. If the rules were tweaked so that the breakdown wasn’t such a lottery, perhaps more teams would take more attacking risks in their own half. There would be less kicking and more running.
For now, that remains a pipe dream. As long as the rules remain as is, teams will continue to place an emphasis on kicking and defence. It’s something that rugby fans must learn to accept: that there are no prizes for losing beautifully.
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270 Comments
17 Oct 2012, 05:51 am
Question:
How long has the Bok played this same game plan?
And has it paid off?
17 Oct 2012, 05:59 am
Bring back Morne, play to your strengths.
17 Oct 2012, 06:07 am
Nice article JC well written and well presented – if I read between the lines then you are pointing to the Cape media and accusing them of ignorance for hounding not AC but Heineken too. Rolling your eyeballs at them for calling for Lions rugby!
Now my only critisism is that you did not name and shame these fools. Just name them and the people will do the rest. Start up a facebook campaign called “get rid of Gavin Rich” for instance or “get rid of Ryan Vrede” or “get rid of (insert name here)”.
If this is going to make life easier for coaches and captains then just do it JC.
17 Oct 2012, 07:00 am
Breaking news…..
A Bekker and T Liebenberg out of EOYT…
Blood D Fourie Heyneke!
17 Oct 2012, 07:07 am
@grant10-4: what happened to Bekker – brokeback again?
Bring in Franco vd Merwe Heineken and recall Chilliboi.
17 Oct 2012, 07:14 am
@RL-5:
Chilli should be picked ahead of Liebenberg anyway…
If they are heading to Europe why not call on Mostert…
17 Oct 2012, 07:22 am
How much rugby has Chilli played of late?
17 Oct 2012, 07:27 am
Hey skopshyte, your nemesis The Sharks have been classed alongside The All Blacks for their style of winning rugby.
That must make your job of building longdrops that much more pleasant this morning cochise…
17 Oct 2012, 07:32 am
Since when has having a strong defence a game plan?
17 Oct 2012, 07:47 am
What is the point of this article? I cannot recall anyone demanding that we neglect good defense in the pursuit of try scoring. In fact, most people asked that the playing strengths of the Stormers be combined with more try scoring. The Boks’ pathetic defensive showing in certain situations has even lead to calls for a change in coaching personel with regards to the defense. Also the fact that people complained about AIMLESS kicking and not kicking in general seems to allude the esteemed writer.
So who exactly are these fans that must move with the times?
17 Oct 2012, 07:49 am
allude should be elude naturally.
17 Oct 2012, 08:00 am
Well Meyer can role his eyes all he wants ,what he is doing is certainly the way forward!
Under Meyer the Boks have looked disgraceful on defense .Their attitude on individuals tackles and failure to stick to some fundamentals on defense has been the hallmark of our failures. Meyer roles his eyes HAHA
People aren’t calling for a complete turnaround in Springbok philosophy ,but they are calling for some changes ,because they have recognized how potent we stand to be with some variety in our game; something PDV bought to the table.
Stormers/Wp defense (use of double tackle and defensive patterns) with Sharks attack ,is the harmony we are looking for.
17 Oct 2012, 08:01 am
@Craven-10: Exactly !
17 Oct 2012, 08:02 am
@Craven-10:
Exactly!
17 Oct 2012, 08:03 am
Its easy to defend against a kak attack like the boks’.
Nobody is saying go all out attack, what the majority is saying is stop kicking the ******* ball at every opportunity with this skop en jag kak.
Great defence coupled with a more ball in hand approach can work – we don’t need up and unders all flippen day and call it “tactical kicking”
The Sharks play the closest to this approach in SA, and is it any wonder they are the form side in SA this year?
17 Oct 2012, 08:03 am
JC missing the point.
Balance is what most fans are begging for.
Strong defence
Good tactical kicking but not overly reliant on the boot
Reliable set pieces
Awareness of space and a willingness to run through it ran than straight into opponents
Ability to offload in the tackle with a system geared towards continuity of ball movement and not just dying with the ball at the first glimpse of contact.
Skrik wakker JC, waar kyk jy jou rugby?
17 Oct 2012, 08:07 am
@wpallday-13:
He he, you share my sentiments.
17 Oct 2012, 08:08 am
read some of the filthy cheating kiwis responses regards bryce.
typical knee jerk denial, so nothing new there.
i just dont have the time to educate them, too busy.
17 Oct 2012, 08:10 am
@wpallday-12:
“something PDV bought to the table”
say what..?..
17 Oct 2012, 08:17 am
@wpstormerbok-16: @trupisero-15: @Craven-10: good posts gents
17 Oct 2012, 08:17 am
@grant10-4:
D Fourie neither strong enough in the tight nor at scrum time. Very good in the loose but AC doenst even play him at 2 for Province.
That in itself tells you something.
Besides, isnt he going overseas? HM wont blood a player who has just signed to go play 2 seasons in Europe.
17 Oct 2012, 08:18 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-18: Brycie is blaming the convict o’Neil for his downfall – said he was “influenced” by the criminal and that is why he let the real cheats get away with murder.
17 Oct 2012, 08:18 am
JC should realy have asked what the fans wanted or meant. This would save him from looking like a toss.
17 Oct 2012, 08:24 am
@Craven-10:
well said.
also, it should be said that kicking in general has been poorly executed too often. by this i mean it was badly effected and not that it was aimless.
some of pienaars kicks not only gave us no net gain per se but they were not the best possibly weighted in distance, height and time of travel so much so that the idea of kicking it into a 50/50 situation (sans possession) from which we would/could compete is actually reduced considerably as a percentage due to the kicks being poorly executed.
pienaar was not alone in how high the number of poor kicks was in total and as a percentage of all kicks.
17 Oct 2012, 08:25 am
boks to lose one, maybe two games on tour
guaranteed…
17 Oct 2012, 08:26 am
Isn”t it ironic that a few times now some strong up and coming players have decided to move overseas just as their game kicked up a notch, and have that coincide with a spate of injuries in his position, thereby opening the door up for a call up to the national squad, only to have this limited by the fact that the player is moving?
Gerhard Mostert
Francois Louw
Deon Fourie
it’s like rain on your wedding day….
17 Oct 2012, 08:27 am
@John Galt-21:
The reason AC doesn’t play Fourie at 2 is that we don’t have a fit 6, whilst we do have 2 other hookers.
17 Oct 2012, 08:27 am
this article is stupid
i dont there was one person on this site calling for an all-out attack approach?
17 Oct 2012, 08:35 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-18:
You just talk rubbish,nothing what you say about NZ is worth reading anyway.
17 Oct 2012, 08:42 am
@Hurricane-29: hehe when was it ever? hes too busy is afrikaans for the nurses are coming back so he has to get off their computer and back into the straight jacket
17 Oct 2012, 08:46 am
@RL-22:
gotta larf at these kiwis.
as if anyone actually believes any of the kak they talk on here.
well, they do have one or two local all black loverboys, and grant.
17 Oct 2012, 08:51 am
19.i_love_u_bakkiesbotha
You are nothing but a meat head. Go see your mother and get a bib to wipe up all the dribble that comes out of your mouth.
17 Oct 2012, 08:54 am
@stormersboy-26:
i thought to myself well there’s an odd old saying, ‘its like rain on your wedding day’.. because i cant say i have heard it before….
and so i googled it, and guess what.. i got a full page of responses on alanis morrisette…. sjoe!
you’re a stormers supporter, right..?..
17 Oct 2012, 08:58 am
@Hurricane-29:
then by all means boet… scroll on by….
@poppa69-30:
*whispers*
i see dirty all blacks…
17 Oct 2012, 09:00 am
Agree with some of the above comments regarding the article. No fan in his right mind is calling for total attack without a rock solid defense and kicking game. But the clue here is a TACTICAL kicking game. We are playing mostly up and under rugby or kicking poorly tactically. The other key to our gripes are when the backline have the ball they rarely ever look dangerous like the All Blacks do. So what are we supposed to do – just be happy with the drivel thats served up as SA rugby for us? You, Heyneke and AC can take a hike. Our concerns are vaild and theres nothing stupid about attacking more in a structured manner instead of always kicking possession away.
17 Oct 2012, 09:02 am
Jon, ever since rugby was played defence was/is important, just do not confuse defense with attack, surely both are important. Yes good defense, especially attacking defense, allows for more ‘free flowing’ attack. Please do not equate expansive/multi purpose (AB’s and to less extent Sharks) attacking rugby with ‘ball to the wings’ and other useless one liners that scare the hell out of conservative S.Africans. At the AB test in NZ we lost because we did not use our potent back line (what the hell are great runners like Habana/de Villiers/Hougaard doing there, making up the numbers?) when the situation required us to RUN. Twice in the 2nd half M Steyn got ball in the middle of the field ± on our 10 meter line in brocken play (±ie the good AB defense was not properly in place and there was superior Boks numbers for that fleeting moment) and he kicked both times – the result the Ab’s received the ball and hoofed it many miles down the touch line and both times our lineout was ± worse off than where Steyn kicked it from.
Did not watch much of the Stormers this year but the few games i did watch they left many potential tries on the table playing it safe including the semi vs the Sharks. The Bulls second/third Super titles they played conservatively but also attacked in multi purpose ways including using the backline often and tellingly. SA has the backs they just need to be used/trained and multi skilled, that breeds confidence and then we will without doubt match the ABs. Not to look good but to win good, tries do this check out the ABs and also the 2nd test vs the Aussies, which you lot wrote us off as winning because the Aussies were so bad. However a worse Aussie side the week later in Argentina gave them a smack, not bad for a side written off but our SA ‘experts’. Thus our multi attack/winning rugby vs the Aussies was written off as easy and not relevant as we played a ‘weak’ team – rubbish.
Brent
17 Oct 2012, 09:03 am
I actually agree with JC on this.
The AB’s have a history of racking up an insurmountable lead once they get a roll on, so keeping the game close is a key.
SA, and particularly the forwards, seem to have trouble staying with the AB’s for the full 80 minutes against the AB’s if they get any sort of a lead more than a single scoring movement, like a converted try.
Why is that?
As far as I can tell, the “basic” skill levels of SA are about the same, and the game plan has been proven it works early in the match and even deep into it, provided the score is close.
17 Oct 2012, 09:07 am
@Brads-37: So if its true then pray tell how do the All Blacks “rack up said insurmountable lead”? By keeping it close? Pfff.
17 Oct 2012, 09:07 am
@Black Power sucks white pride-32:
could you be a little less constructive..?..
17 Oct 2012, 09:10 am
Here is a great article from THE ROAR
The Ellis Park home crowd waited with anticipation for the kick off on the 15th of August 1992, when the Springboks met New Zealand for their first international encounter since the Apartheid ban.
South African greats such as Danie Gerber, Naas Botha, Uli Schmidt, Wahl Bartmann and a number of other veterans took on a game All Black side.
South Africa had 10 debutants on that fateful day when New Zealand won by 27-24, the narrowest of margins.
The South African public would have taken a lot of confidence out of that performance and would have believed that South African rugby was as strong as ever, until of course the next weekend when the then world champions Australia thrashed the Springboks 26-3 at Newlands.
Perhaps it was an omen that a new world force had risen during the self-inflicted international hiatus.
But 21 years on, has South Africa improved?
Back then provincial rivalry was staunch, understandable as the Currie Cup was the alpha and omega for South African rugby players and public, it ultimately influenced the manner in how selections were made. Internal politics, nepotism and favouritism reigned supreme.
Looking at the record of the Springboks over the past 21 years it makes for complex and contradictory reading.
Two World Cups, three Tri Nations titles, and four Super Rugby trophies does entertain the thought that there were some successes along the way, but when you delve deeper and ignore the win ratio of 63% (including a superior win record over all nations bar the Wallabies and All Blacks) then it seems little has changed.
We still face a system that discourages collective thinking, the Super Rugby franchises rarely do anything for the good of the collective, politicians interfere regarding ‘non-existing’ quotas, administrators behind closed doors make rash decisions with scant regard for the consequences and supporters are rarely being kept in the loop regarding the clandestine workings of the inner circle.
If Dr. Danie Cruyven would be able to come back for a visit, what would his opinion be about where we find ourselves 21 years later?
We still haven’t been able to evolve our game plan, we still believe in the Neanderthalic approach to ball carrying and lo and behold, the kicking fly half is still revered as the Messiah in South Africa under many supporters.
IRB player of the year (2007) Bryan Habana has learnt how to circumvent the stoic game plans and has found other methods of scoring tries, be it by intercept, individual brilliance or opportunistic chip kicks.
We score less tries per match than our two biggest foes, we have stifled great players’ instinct and vision and yet there is a strong belief among many South African supporters that we are on the right track.
It seems to me at least we are doomed to forever be contenders and never the holders of the prestigious title of best team in the world.
Is it an inherent trait of South African leaders to remain conservative and afraid of taking risks? Will we forever be the rugby nation that has all the talent in the world, but continue to waste our resources due to the inability to reach for the stars?
Will Heyeneke Meyer stick to his guns and select the young potential stars like Jantjies and Lambie now that Johan Goosen is out for the end of year tour, or we he fall back to his safety net of Morne Steyn?
It is easy to fall back to the comfort of experience, but it takes a brave leader to venture into the unknown. Will Meyer be the man who will change Springbok rugby forever, or will we wait patiently for the promised land?
17 Oct 2012, 09:10 am
The idea that all SA fans are missing the point in consideration of today’s rugby strategy is ludicrous when you view the stormers and the boks play. The chiefs won the super 15 because they had balance, between defense and attack, the ABs have been dominant for an age owing to a balance between defense, varied kicking, and attack. The issue that bok fans have with the boks is an overemphasis on one up forward runners and kicking, they more often then not won’t play the situation, therefore, they are strictly predictable to defenses. Today’s rugby rewards teams that can exploit opportunities using a composite of skills, the boks don’t. Yes defense is important but when has it not been in rugby’s history and when were the ABs ever a weak defense team?
17 Oct 2012, 09:10 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha
You are a waste of time.
17 Oct 2012, 09:13 am
@Slumtown-38:
Sorry, I don’t understand your question.
The point I made was the AB’s can, and do, run away with a match once they get a lead beyond 2 scoring movements.
The question is why can’t the Bokke game plan continue as it started?
17 Oct 2012, 09:14 am
There is only one game plan and it is …. “GIVE THE BALL TO BRYAN”
17 Oct 2012, 09:14 am
@skunk-23: Nope, not even that would.
17 Oct 2012, 09:19 am
@Stormtrooper-44:
I hope you are joking.
17 Oct 2012, 09:20 am
you cant teach an old dog new tricks..
it has to start in the junior structures for SA rugby
but it wont…
size is everything in the republic…
17 Oct 2012, 09:20 am
@Brads-37:
its simple brads, they cheat a lot and the refs dont do enough about it.
interesting to see how they adopt to the new extended tmo ammendments if its adopted at all levels as well the new rule changes.
also the big 5 priorities and when considerd that the ab’s regularly break these as a matter of course.
17 Oct 2012, 09:22 am
@Black Power-40:
That piece from Roar is quite insightful, and mirrors a lot of what I believe as an outsider looking at SA rugby.
17 Oct 2012, 09:23 am
@Black Power-42:
i want to say the feeling’s mutual but then we both would be the losers.
ag look, its not all that bad… lets atart again.
17 Oct 2012, 09:23 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-48:
SCHLEMIEL
17 Oct 2012, 09:24 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-48:
Can you do me a favour, ignore my posts as if they didn’t exist.
I will do the same with yours.
17 Oct 2012, 09:24 am
@poppa69-47: our juniors just gave yours a beating buddy.
17 Oct 2012, 09:24 am
Lawrence: I was hounded out
London – Retired referee Bryce Lawrence has claimed he was hounded out of rugby by Australia and South Africa following his performance in last year’s Rugby World Cup quarter-final.
Lawrence, 41, has also revealed his performance in that game in Wellington was influenced by behind-the-scenes complaints from Australian Rugby Union chief executive John O’Neill.
“I had four really good games at the World Cup and then I had that,” New Zealander Lawrence told the Bay Of Plenty Times.
“There was some pretty nasty political stuff going on about that appointment. I refereed Australia versus Ireland and Ireland had won but behind the scenes guys like John O’Neill were kicking up a massive stink.
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Lawrence-I-was-hounded-out-20121017
17 Oct 2012, 09:25 am
@John Galt-21: is in the same light weight category as Keegan, maybe 1 or 2 kilos heavier – definatley quicker and more skillful than Keegan – in the end not Bok quality.
17 Oct 2012, 09:27 am
Best article you have ever written, JC.
Bravo! I salute you for telling it like it is.
Absolutely accurate argument.
17 Oct 2012, 09:28 am
@Brads-43: @Black Power-40:
2 words – fitness and psychology. We dont believe we can fight them off. Funny thing is often in a Super Rugby match we can yet when it comes to an international all of a sudden the Boks loose faith.
All Blacks play it tight only when they have to – at the slightest sniff they counterattack or attack and take their chances with both hands.
The difference? Support runners, vehement clearing out of rucks, fast ball recycling (not like we do when were like hens over an egg), sharp tactical kicks, an eye for gaps and sublime offloading in the tackle which comes full circle to support runners. Theres always one there when the All Blacks play – how often do we get a break and then when the man wants to pass realises he is on his own.
Another difference is bad decision making on the trot. Habanas botched try vs the All Blacks in their last match is a great example. Instead of going for the corner he ran slap bang into the defender and spilt the ball.
17 Oct 2012, 09:28 am
“The All Blacks may be the finest attacking team on the planet, but their defence and kicking game has been the bedrock of their success.”
You have lost it with this phrase JC, lost it completely. ABs play ball and they attack like very smart demons.
ABs kick when they dont have an option. Infact the ABs dont even have a kicking game plan. ABs seldom use the boot as an attacking weapon, like our Boks and provincial sides.
17 Oct 2012, 09:29 am
@rangerman-53: first time in five years, buddy…
and theyll have it coached out of them at senior level
17 Oct 2012, 09:29 am
@rangerman-53:
You forget one thing, how years did it take you? And some of our best players for the juniors were unavailable.
17 Oct 2012, 09:30 am
@Tacitus-56: You smoking from the same bong as JC?
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-54: Yet the “freezing ref” won NZ ref of the year award? Suppose his daddy had to choose between him, a girl and a sheepdog.
17 Oct 2012, 09:31 am
@Black Power-51:
just to be clear, the so called ‘big 5′ prioties are:
• All aspects of the tackle with particular emphasis to be placed on the tackler releasing the tackled player and rolling away and arriving players staying on their feet.
• Offside at the breakdown.
• Offside from kicks.
• All aspects of the scrum, particularly the engagement process and front-row binding.
• All aspects of the maul, particularly what constitutes legal maul defences.
now consider this and look at the last bok-ab game and you will realise the extent to which these are ignored (i mean they cheat) by the ab’s and further, not appropriately policed by the refs.
p.s. calling each other names is a little pointless, dont you thing?
17 Oct 2012, 09:33 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-62:
You have only one eye
17 Oct 2012, 09:33 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-62: youve just described the things SA cheat at
“p.s. calling each other names is a little pointless, dont you thing (sic)?” hahahahahahahahaha pot kettle etc…
17 Oct 2012, 09:34 am
@Brads-52:
ok, will do. but before i do, one last thing.
lets play a guessing game:
are you tony johnson?
17 Oct 2012, 09:35 am
@poppa69-59: @Black Power-60: ah so unavailable players and first time in blah blah blah
fact remains, our juniors gave yours a whuppin and that was without the goose.
if you guys havent noticed the ever increasing dominance of saffa teams in superrugby thats cool, bury your heads in the sand.
we are catching up guys, quicker than you think.
17 Oct 2012, 09:37 am
@rangerman-66: keep believing it, outscoring you two to one in the last test suggests otherwise..
our juniors lost their first two games in five years, one to Wales and one to SA, and your catching up?
long way to go yet buddy
17 Oct 2012, 09:37 am
@Slumtown-57:
You are right, the ability to pounce on mistakes is ever present with the AB’s.
However, the AB’s make mistakes like every team when under pressure and this seems to be a common element in matches this year in the RC.
Dear I say it, it almost looked like too much effort went in during the early stages and there was not enough left left in the tank to maintain the pressure.
Maybe some of the SA forwards should spend less time in the gym building their strength and spend a few more sessions doing aerobic work
17 Oct 2012, 09:40 am
@rangerman-66:
I think you have your head in the sand. Been reading the same old story for years. You will never catch us, as you still play the same style of rugby as in Dannie Craven coached. Big forwards trying to break the line etc etc
17 Oct 2012, 09:44 am
@trupisero-61:
a perfect play by the dirty kiwis really.
because to question his winning the award or that game just makes ot a perfect environment for the ‘conspiracy theory’ card.
@Black Power-63:
no, no i dont.
@poppa69-64:
dont be ridiculous …
the number of times the tacklers was not realeased properly or the tackler did not roll away or the arriving players staying on their feet by the ab’s in the 2nd half was larfable.
how many times was nonu in particular pinged for offsides?
woodcock dropped his bind went straght to ground how many times?
god, dont even get me started on the mauls and that last one in front of new zealands line in which romano or read literally walked around the side and attempted to rip the ball from the ball carrier still legitimately bound.
please, you’re ajoke
17 Oct 2012, 09:46 am
@poppa69-59: @Black Power-60: I have to agree with both of you. Obviously I’m delighted that the young Boks won the title, but it is no secret that this was not a very good All Black junior side (in comparison with the previous years). While we (SA coaches) keep on concentrating on the “bashing” up front and always prefer the bigger players over the smaller ones (I know that in certain positions you need bigger players) we are not going to progress. If you have a talented player like Paul Jordaan coming through, who is definite Springbok material, we should use his skills and not try and “bulk him up” in order for him to run over opposition.
More time should be spent on skills training from an early age in SA
17 Oct 2012, 09:47 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-70: too long, did not read..
Im sure there will be something about cheating, filthy etc…
17 Oct 2012, 09:48 am
@rangerman-66: Yes we are catching up but as soon as the top players come together their talent is not applied as it should. In that sense we are not making progress
17 Oct 2012, 09:49 am
no point in mentioning the stuff macaw did.
17 Oct 2012, 09:49 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-54: I remember this article, and he’s right, there was a lot of behind the scenes pressure. Notice though that he doesn’t mention any official SA pressure because our administrators are too chickenshit to step up and apply any, warranted or not.
We just roll over an take it.
So I have zero sympathy for Bryce.
And to clarify your Alanys Morrisette insinuation, it’s true. I’m a huge lesbian.
17 Oct 2012, 09:49 am
@poppa69-72:
thats ok, i’ll save the truth for another day.
17 Oct 2012, 09:50 am
The bok coaching team I think should be the following:
Head coach – Nick Mallett
Attack Coach – John Mitchell
Forwards Coach – Heyeneke Meyer
Skills Coach – paul Treu
Defense Coach – Jacque Nienaber
With that coaching team, the boks would have a chance at the ABs.
17 Oct 2012, 09:52 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-70: Yup when watching again i saw that and was now amused, also Richie ono the ground right in front of the ref pushing the ball out of Strauss hand.
17 Oct 2012, 09:53 am
@rangerman-66:
I had noticed SA had improved in the S15 actually.
Did you also notice that the last 2 winners were 1st timers.
17 Oct 2012, 09:54 am
Bakkies we get it you think ABs cheat. Let it go. Our players besides Flo just don’t want to evolve and do the same. Don’t blame the opposition blame our rigid team.
17 Oct 2012, 09:56 am
@mpundulu-77: Too many strong personalities there mate, they would never work together lol
17 Oct 2012, 09:56 am
@stormersboy-75:
yip, we have gone too soft post isolation and do nowhere near enough to deal with the kiwi (especially) and other dirty backroom dealings.
man, what i woulf give to see another luyt rise.
for a while there i thought brian van rooyen might just have had the goods to ‘actually’ deal with these skarminkels. our new breed of rugby execs ar eway, way too soft and limp wristed.
17 Oct 2012, 09:57 am
@mpundulu-77: Probably the best in their fields for sure.
Not convinced that they would work as a unit, but i guess we can hope.
17 Oct 2012, 09:59 am
To be fair, watching bok rugby is much like watching a blue movie – predictable, no plan B and a bunch of sweaty bodies performing manuevres directed by a useless director and a whole bunch of ooing and aaahing from the players whilst the viewers mostly snigger at the kak they are watching
And if it gets ***** ratings then the “execution” wasn’t up to scratch.
17 Oct 2012, 09:59 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-82: Way too many yes men.
17 Oct 2012, 10:00 am
@sharks_lover-81: Yes, Mitchell, Mallett and Meyer will never last as a combination
17 Oct 2012, 10:01 am
@skunk-80: Except Flouw??
MAte the only 2 teams are playing a changed style of play and thats the Lions and Sharks,
Problem is for example Sharks players under HM are having to play the dinosaur age style of moeren soek and skop and jag
17 Oct 2012, 10:01 am
@stormersboy-85: Especially our president !!
17 Oct 2012, 10:02 am
@sharks_lover-78:
the rolling maul? what a joke hey?
ja, reechee’s infringment were a larf. sometimes i think he’s doing it just for kicks so he can see how far he can go before the ref will do anything.
but seriously, its clear their plan was to commit yellow/red card/penalty try offenses in the last 20 when in their red zone withthe idea being that either they get away with it (as usual), or at worst they concede only a 3 point kick and also that the score is still lower, while eating away at scoring opportunities time wise for the boks.
17 Oct 2012, 10:03 am
The other team that does try to play running rugby obviously is the Cheetahs, problem with them is Defense goes awol
17 Oct 2012, 10:05 am
@skunk-80:
why did you have to ruin it by saying i ‘think’ they cheat?
17 Oct 2012, 10:06 am
SharksLover.
We are talking about bending the rules not styles of play.
17 Oct 2012, 10:07 am
@mpundulu-77: If SA had those coaches we would probably have the best coaches in world rugby. We would not only have a chance, we would be the best in the world with them. Though some of them are too hot headed probably to work together.
For now though I would really like to see Paul Treu coaching our backline. I know he wants to carry on as 7′s coach with the 7′s in the Olympics in 4 years time, but think he would be a superb backline coach for our Boks right now.
Without a doubt we should have Nienaber already as our defence coach. Defence cost us huge at Soccer City.
17 Oct 2012, 10:08 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-89: BOet but remember it’s the refs job to sought those things out
17 Oct 2012, 10:08 am
Playing the ref is an art Bakkies. But we just do not want to do that.
17 Oct 2012, 10:09 am
@CharlesM-88: Absolutely, Starts at the top
17 Oct 2012, 10:09 am
@skunk-92: Ah ok my bad, I will follow more closely
17 Oct 2012, 10:11 am
@skunk-95: THe reason our players dobt play the ref is because they get into trouble etc, and are used to having to show dissapline, in NZ they are taught to play the ref, cheat etc, call it what you want.
So a NZ player does not fear being dropped and getting into trouble etc.
17 Oct 2012, 10:12 am
@stormersboy-96: Who keeps Hoskins there ? It seems that he has been there for ages. I remember after the 2007 World Cup that Debra Patta of 3rd Degree grilled him on TV: he could not get away from her soon enough !!
17 Oct 2012, 10:13 am
I see bakkies continually repetition is having its effect.. say something often enough and it will become fact..
still, I understand, the travel disadvantage is no longer feasible because the ABs debunked that theory..
17 Oct 2012, 10:16 am
Morning Kiwis
17 Oct 2012, 10:17 am
our players are more skilful, face it..
Reads catch before the Whitelock try was superb, as was Nonu’s off Read when Nonu scored.
Id wager good money both of those passes would have been dropped by SA players..
17 Oct 2012, 10:17 am
I have no problem with us using a kicking game. But the issue is us relying only on it. Its sometimes so funny watching the boks kick the ball away when they have numbers out wide. Any of you thinking it will change soon are dreaming. HM is not going to change. He is the problem. Forget Mallet and the moody boys. Lets bring back Gert Smal.
17 Oct 2012, 10:18 am
Sa needs to find balance to its game more often. We struggle with this.
17 Oct 2012, 10:19 am
@mpundulu-77: Almost a dream team
I would add a League coach from somewhere as an ‘attack/skills’ consultant. An outsider.
That is my dream…..for the Stormers, and the Boks – a League coach from somewhere in Oz or NZ, who has not been indoctrinated with any sort of crash/boom/bang blueprint. A fellow who only knows how to coach players to keep the ball alive….(and who has ZERO previous connections with rugby in SA)
What a breath of fresh air that would be, someone to challenge the age old beliefs.
17 Oct 2012, 10:19 am
Poppa
Open the other eye mate.
17 Oct 2012, 10:20 am
@skunk-103: I agree 100%
I said the same think a few days ago to PA.
17 Oct 2012, 10:21 am
@poppa69-102: Morning Blues man
Who will be filling in for Ma’a next year? I’m starting to get a little concerned……Any rumours of additional signings, other than the pretty low key ones already announced?
17 Oct 2012, 10:21 am
@skunk-106: you mean your backline didnt stuff up in Dunedin by not being able to pass the ball?
same as the 1/4 final in 2011?
ok then..
17 Oct 2012, 10:22 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-105: Is a great team, problem is the main 3 would all want to be the main oke
17 Oct 2012, 10:22 am
Still the same person calling us cheats etc.
The same person was telling me(i am a Maori living in NZ ) what it was like living in NZ as a Maori…. does this guy ever shut up.
17 Oct 2012, 10:23 am
It’s funny how such a puerile article can have seemingly semsible muppets (Tacticus) admiring it. Kind of proves the point that SA fans are somewhat behind. I think though that truth is that, journo’s, coaches, administrators and officials are way behind the times in SA. Then the players and fans just well, behind.
The article is just waffle and conjecture; no real meat. For example, my guess is that SA did not kick the most in the last series; but all fans say they kick too much (we won’t talk about effectiveness). Then it’s easy to waffle about defence but the AB’s first try came from a back row forward on the wing running at a crocked Goosen (why was he still on the field?). Now recall how many howled about Bekker and Matfield being in the backline (me too as they all were, no one protecting the tackle ball!!). It’s good coaching of the basics that is lacking in SA. Just on defense, the Bok coaches do not seem to know how to drill and organise defensive patterns that have to change all the time based on marking. They cannot seem to teach players to mark and identify superior numbers and overlaps; the very basis for successful attack in rugby.
@Bakkies; no good whining bru. I actually agree with you but until our oafficials and administrators grow a pair (Craig J – that’s you as well as Watson et al) and work out how to expose this “cheating”, it will continue for sure. McCaw is not just a good player on the field, he is very good at worming his way into the hearts and minds of officials who then somehow miss his, and his team’s, onfield transgressions.
17 Oct 2012, 10:25 am
@skunk-103:
2009 was built around defence and accurate kicking.
We all know what SA is aiming for. But this time we have backs that can actually catch the ball and run with speed and power. I believe we have got the SA game sorted.
17 Oct 2012, 10:26 am
I don’t buy into the idea that big coaching personalities can’t work together to put forward an informed rugby product. Henry, Hansen, Wayne Smith, Mike Cron, and Mick Byrne are regarded as the best in their respective fields worked within an AB environment where Henry encouraged debate amongst themselves and with the senior leaders within the player group.
The bok coaching group doesn’t hold a candle to Hansen, Foster, Fox, Aussie Maclean, Mick Byrne, and Mike Cron. Hansen is continuing Henry’s coaching philosophy and it’s working.
17 Oct 2012, 10:27 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-108: More young lady.. no rumours that I know off..
Frances Saiili is a good prospect at 12 and Malakai Fekitoa at 13 is another to watch… we are going to be pushing the kings for last spot next year, so not going to be pretty… ouir forwards are really going to struggle.
still, we wont have to listen to Bakkies because he wont be watching super rugby anymore, thats a positive
17 Oct 2012, 10:28 am
@sharks_lover-110: I like the idea of 3 hotheads fighting it out in the coaching stakes. Progress has NEVER ridden on the backs of a bunch of ja broers (yes messiah, no messiah)…..but rather on the backs of those who constantly challenge, question and argue.
Tis true
17 Oct 2012, 10:28 am
@mpundulu-114:
Yep but i am still not too sure on Foster.
Dont get me wrong we have looked really good in the backs but also at times we have looked clueless and below AB standard
17 Oct 2012, 10:32 am
@poppa69-115: Well my friend, I actually have news for you that is FAR worse than the news you have just given me RE: the Blues prospects
Prepare yourself.
Bakkies WILL be watching Super rugby next year. The Brycegate revelations have inspired a new period in the history of ‘The Bakkies’…..
I’m going to hunt for the post in which he states this.
17 Oct 2012, 10:32 am
JON, KAK KAK KAK KAK.
No one said that the Stormers must play 7′s rugby. Most people just said they needed a balance between attack and defense.
Yes they won the SA conference (which is the same as finishing on top of the currie cuo log, it means NOTHING).
Sh*t you guys write rubbish sometimes.
17 Oct 2012, 10:34 am
The Stormers gameplan actually only worked ONCE against the accepted top 3 teams (when they beat the Sharks in round 1).
They lost to the Saders, never played the Chiefs, and lost twice to the Sharks.
17 Oct 2012, 10:35 am
@londonshark-119: Amen. thats why i didnt bother even reading past the 3rd line
17 Oct 2012, 10:35 am
Poppa
they did mate. All i am saying is do not group the whole lot. Be balanced…
17 Oct 2012, 10:35 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-18: Bakkies when someone goes on the defensive like they are doing demonstrates guilt! ignore them and concentrate of purchasing all you will need to pick up your mood after my Sharks have sent your Bulls out of CC 2012
17 Oct 2012, 10:36 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-118: none of us believed he wouldnt watch next year..
seems a man of his word our bakkies..
this is the bloke who loved the chiefs up until the final lmfao
17 Oct 2012, 10:37 am
@londonshark-120: All one has to do is look ast tries for and tries against by all our teams, one then sees who is getting the ballance right in combining defense and attack, that happy medium
17 Oct 2012, 10:39 am
@Sharksgirl-123:
And what guilt is that?
17 Oct 2012, 10:40 am
@skunk-95:
no, its not.
the boks are tainted intentionally so for us to do the same easily and quickly gets us into trouble, whereas they are allowed free reign.
besides, all should be equal before the law but we aren’t. you only have to look at some of the ridiculous reson for which bok players have been sin binned and worse yet were only guilty of doing similar and in many instances LESS than kiwi always do.
danie’s sin binning in 2010… what a larf…
or bakkies….
or some of the penalties given against us were the biggest joke going.
@sharks_lover-98:
agree on most points.
but as i’ve said above, our hands have been tied for the last 15 years so its pointless for us to try and cheat the way they do. what a kak way to win games though against oppostion who have one hand in the fight and then crow after, as if you actually achieved something.
17 Oct 2012, 10:41 am
@Hurricane-126: SA’s are sheeple mate, they all fall for the whole cheating angle..
its to relieve the fact they know they just arent good enough
Our forwards have more skills in offloading and passing then their backs do..
17 Oct 2012, 10:42 am
@husky-112:
yip, agreed.
the sad thing is rugby is the ultimate loser for all people concerned, even the kiwi’s but they just dont know it.
17 Oct 2012, 10:44 am
@Hurricane-126: Bakkies goes on and on, yet no mention that Habs try was off a forward pass?
I know, we have got away with a few in the past so it makes it okay apparently
17 Oct 2012, 10:45 am
I said ……
MORNING KIWIS
17 Oct 2012, 10:46 am
Happy Birthday Pat Lambie, a whole 22 today.. Your BIrthday present to us is victory over the Bulls on the weekend :mrgeen:
17 Oct 2012, 10:46 am
@Hurricane-117: They will find their balance. It was clear in the 1st test you fellows played against the Argies, that there was a little confusion in the coaching box during the 1st half – when it seemed the AB’s were insistent on playing the offload game, even though it was failing at the time. (Ok granted, if Carter was on the field at the time, as I have said before, I do believe he would have slowed things down, kicked for territory and changed the game at the 1st sign of trouble)
But when they came out after the halftime break – the balance was there. Coaches and senior players made a shift and you fellows haven’t lost that balance since. (Even when the Bok forwards put your lot under pressure in Dunedin).
I think we will see a continuation of this on the EOYT for your AB’s. A massacre awaits the northern challengers IMHO.
17 Oct 2012, 10:47 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-118:
now now
i said the fact that not one but three of the filthiest incompetent cheats to ever ref the game have been ‘retired’ from rugby might, just might say me to reconsider my boycott.
that together with the new extended tmo powers, the rule changes and the reprioritisation of the ‘big 5′ rules issues might actually make super rugby fainlty competitive, exciting and fair to even again.
17 Oct 2012, 10:47 am
@poppa69-128: Well ur not being very smart either. the more you respond the more he will continue, very simple really.
17 Oct 2012, 10:48 am
@Dawn-131: Ill say hello Dawn
Hoe gaan dit?
17 Oct 2012, 10:48 am
Oh neverfuckingmind.
17 Oct 2012, 10:49 am
@poppa69-130:
Pops, I know you still taking revenge on Saffa’s after some bloggers gave you a hard time in 2009, but seriously, isn’t it time to build a bridge.
By all means, give grief, but I honestly don’t know if you know anything about rugby. Because you never talk about it!!??
17 Oct 2012, 10:50 am
Bwaaaaaaaaahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
17 Oct 2012, 10:50 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-134: Bakkies, you will be planted on your couch come S15 just like the rest of us.
17 Oct 2012, 10:52 am
@sharks_lover-125:
Yep, the Stormers were a couple steps away from being the ‘perfect’ team.
But they refused to accept they had a problem on attack (like the Boks as well, and poor old JDV had to spew lies to cover his own ***, for the stormers and the boks).
17 Oct 2012, 10:53 am
Sheeple?
Is this some strange kiwi word to legitimise the continued abuse of merinos?
17 Oct 2012, 10:53 am
Why are people making excuses for HM??? I just read an article by Gavin Rich, also excusing HM from his p iss poor tenure thus far! Rubbish Jon! We are not stupid and calling for an all out attack al AB style! We are asking the right questions as supporters – why is HM choosing sub par players? Why is SARFU paying someone who is unable to recognise real talent? Why are we playing a game plan that we are no good at or that no longer brings dividends?? And if you want to talk about defence – why the BLEEP have they not hired Jacques Nienaber as defence consultant?!?! Everything is just wrong with this setup – HM is passionate but overly emotional. Why does he sit in that room all by himself, screaming into a walkie – how does that inspire confidence that he will make the right call in terms of tactics & substitutions or anything really?? Where is the ‘team’ to help him, or analyse and advise?? Speaking of management team – we have Koen as kicking coach, well we can see how that is going…. We have MacFarlen as defence coach, need I say more… And the absolute belter here – the joke bigger than PDivvy… Ricardo Laubsher as backline coach, with van Graan as forwards AND (wait for it) attack coach… WTF man?!? For real?! Are you flippening kidding me?!? What kind of a setup is that??? And SARFU pays them for this?! I though SARFU was a business. I’m under the impression that business want to make money. And they have entrusted their most prize cash cow to this motley crew?!?! EISH! Sorry Cardinelli, I don’t agree that I should move with the times…
17 Oct 2012, 10:53 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-140: With horns out his nose yelling , nou die blou nou die blou, with his neck veins all swollen from stress
17 Oct 2012, 10:54 am
Hurricane, I also had reservations about Ian Foster in the beginning owing to his record at the chiefs, however , what I didn’t factor is that he spend a lot of time in the AB environment after he resigned as chief’s head coach, in particular with Wayne Smith, who I regard as the leading attack coach of all time, and Smith signed off on Foster as a worthy successor. What foster has done is institute a high skill and tempo attacking platform, typified by Aaron Smith’s service from the base, it’s allowing the ABs to score from set pieces. I think the moment the ABs get their timing right on attack, they’ll be scary.
17 Oct 2012, 10:55 am
@Sharksgirl-123:
KOMPUTER SAYS NO…..
but good luck all the same, dear
17 Oct 2012, 10:56 am
@gunther-142: good one… hilarious
17 Oct 2012, 10:56 am
@poppa69-128:
I mean you try and have a conversation with themabout the game but all you get is cheat this cheat that…. some really have no clue at all.
Surely Leicester and Saracens were cheaters, how about Scotland, Ireland and france…..how about Ozzie. All these teams in the last 4-5 years have beaten the boks. But the only ones that cheat is the team that is front of them….actually Bakkies blamed Argentina for cheating and the ref cheated that game as well when Boks drew with them.
I mean it is getting a bit over the top.
17 Oct 2012, 10:58 am
@Hurricane-148: desperate times call for desperate measures..
wait until they lose up north later this year..
but hey, if they want to concentrate on what the opposition is doing rather then what they are doing, theyll remain winning at about 60% of the time, a stat that is in decline too..
17 Oct 2012, 11:00 am
@Hurricane-148: NIe waar nie!!!
17 Oct 2012, 11:01 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-133:
Yeah,balance is the key. I think Cruden is yet to play a whole game where i am happy.
Its amazing when Carter comes in the whole team relaxes and starts toplay. I dont know whether its just Carter being there or it is actually him doing this but there is a change in the team.
Now the Boks, we can see where they are headed and if they get that same consistent accurate kicking and defend the opposition into mistakes,2009 will happen all over again.
Forwards are a scary bunch but the backs lret the team down. As you, balance actually is what the Boks are looking for….lets hope they do not find it
17 Oct 2012, 11:02 am
@sharks_lover-150:
lol
ok i was only kidding.
17 Oct 2012, 11:02 am
@RL-22: Is that what Bryce said? I thought he said it probably made him “freeze on the biggest stage”. Which would explain why he had a shocker, not just for the Saffers but the Aussies too. It might explain why he didn’t allow O’Connor to retake his shot at goal after Habana started his charge early. And why he didn’t pick up on that last line out penalty, needing the AR to spot it.
But it was just Bryce that froze was it? Forward passes that needed to be backwards. Smit had a brain **** and turned down a shot at goal after 30 minutes. And PdV subbed his captain off after, what, 50 minutes? In the biggest game of the year.
17 Oct 2012, 11:04 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-146:
lol
Computer says no….classic
17 Oct 2012, 11:07 am
@gonzo-153:
Yeah PDV and silly mistakes by the Boks did not help the cause at all.
As the Ozzies said, Bryce missed calls for them as well.
We can say Bryce froze and blew what should have been a cracker of a match. I mean it still was a good game, Boks played at times awesome rugby,probably some of the best rugby they played all year.
But Bryce blew it….not a good look either.
I can see where some of these guys are coming from. I too would have felt cheated if it was the ABs.
17 Oct 2012, 11:08 am
@Hurricane-154:
17 Oct 2012, 11:09 am
@Hurricane-155: nah got what they deserved..
no drop kick?
dropping passes with the tryline open?
just not good enough on the day, like the ABs in 2007
17 Oct 2012, 11:10 am
@Hurricane-126: That you should have played us in semis and not Wallabies, and it was YOUR ref that ensured that was the case due to the real criminal O’Neal! We said it all along and you guys said we were whingers. Your ref of the year admited it in black and white
17 Oct 2012, 11:11 am
@Sharksgirl-158: “ensured that was Not…”
17 Oct 2012, 11:13 am
@Sharksgirl-158: like Englands ref in 2007 doing our game when the winner played his team in the semi?
we were told there was nothing wrong with Barnes, and he was just as bad as Bryce in how many infringements he missed..
harden up
anything else is sour grapes, and you guys make a damn good whine
17 Oct 2012, 11:16 am
@Sharksgirl-158:
Admitted what?
He never admitted to cheating and he sure as hell didnt say Boks were suppose to be in the semis, you people saying that..
And this is the problem here. Plenty of people got in his head. Refs are only human and for a game that was so important it overcome him and he blew a bad one.
And he is not my ref of the year… i cant remember voting. Stop blaming NZ fans it was the NZRU.
We dont blame the SA fans for the rubbish SARU spewed out years ago…..well i dont
17 Oct 2012, 11:19 am
@poppa69-157:
One way of looking at it Pops.
We were told that the ABs were not good enough in 2007.
But as we have said, NZ were ripped off by Barnes….who is a Pom. His team was going to play the winner of France and NZ. We all know what team he would rather get through….setup dont you think?
17 Oct 2012, 11:21 am
@Hurricane-151: Reading this post, I’m actually (may Bakkies help me) humming the VERY old Depeche Mode number…’Get the Balance right…’. …
I don’t see much changing for us EOYT, as Meyer will certainly play Morne at 10 – using the heavy conditions underfoot and the weather as the perfect opportunity to advertise his 10 man game. Count on it.
17 Oct 2012, 11:21 am
@poppa69-160:
I believe Henry counted over 30 missed infringments that should have gone ABs way.
So he did a Bakkies but difference is GH actually knows what he is talking about.
17 Oct 2012, 11:22 am
Defence smench…
Attack smack…
Allow players to ******* think for themselves on the field playing within the damn structure and stop barking on-field orders through your walkie-talkie from the comfort of your box.
If you don’t trust the players to execute on the park, they won’t trust themselves.
17 Oct 2012, 11:25 am
@Sharksgirl-158: The only thing here in black and white is that he froze. He had been accused of over-reffing the Oz/Ire game so apparently got scared to blow his whistle in the quarter final. This talk of who NZ should have played in the semi, sorry but Oz were tri-nats champs, #2 in the world, and had made the Boks their b*tches. Just go back to the pre-RWC threads on here and check out the complaints about PdV, Smit, Steyn. The only two players people agreed on were F Steyn and Brussow and weren’t they both injured?
And about ref of the year, well we kiwis don’t spend as much time thinking about refs. I for one know I couldn’t tell you who should have been nominated besides Bryce because I can’t recall the name of any other international refs that year
17 Oct 2012, 11:26 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-163:
Yeah i can see that as well.
I think Morne has been over played and has hit a stale part in his game. It happens to alot of players. He has never been a great runner but he was the most feared kicker around. I remember back in 2009,as soon as he walked up the kick for goal you knew it was going over. The guy is a freak.
Shame SA didnt trust any other #10s to help and fill in once and a while or given him a break at the Bulls, i am sure SA would be better off.
17 Oct 2012, 11:37 am
@PissAnt-165:
17 Oct 2012, 11:39 am
@poppa69-160: @poppa69-160: Look Poppa, 1. I agree with you as far as 2007 is concerned, I also shiver if I see Barnes on as a ref for my team. 2. I have never really got involved in these scuffles, but as far as Bryce is concerned I am sorry I have watched him screw us too many times to believe that it was a mistake. I honestly believe that he blew that game leniently (moderate word) for Ozzies because of the politics going on behind the scenes, being presurised by the criminal.
I would point you to two of the most galling instances that have convinced me that Bryce did not blow in an unbiased manner, remember the “dangerous engagement” when he was so eager to blow against the Sharks that he blew the whistle giving the penalty to oposition, and neither pack had come nowhere near engaging yet? pathetic! When asked what penalty was for “dangerous engagement” lol! Or the game against the Brumbies in 2008 when he blew the Sharks off the park and even yellow carded Francois Steyn for “cynical play” when he wasn’t anywhere near the ball! There are more but I am blogging in between making payments so would take too long. Nope this guy planned who would win and who wouldn’t!
No Hurricane he did not admit to cheating, who would? he did admit to having blown in a certain manner favouring the Ozzies because of pressure from O’neal and politics going on off the field. sooo….
17 Oct 2012, 11:43 am
@PissAnt-165: twins bru?
17 Oct 2012, 11:45 am
JC your logic is all over the place in this one.
Paraphrasing…
“NZ and Sharks are great attacking teams”
“NZ and Sharks are also defensively strong”
“NZ and Sharks are balanced teams”
then…
“If you can wrap your head around these trends, you will realise why the Bok game plan is not flawed”
but what about the Bok attack JC?
17 Oct 2012, 11:49 am
@PissAnt-165: Coaching 101.
The notion of player empowerment.
17 Oct 2012, 11:50 am
and if Meyer’s gameplan is centred around defence and kicking then why did they concede 4 tries at home and miss 35 points at goal over two tests against NZ?
It’s a mess.
17 Oct 2012, 11:53 am
@willievz-172:
Like Barry Johns famous remark in his first game for Wales, when Gareth Edwards asked him where he wanted the ball passed; “Just throw it and I’ll catch it!”
17 Oct 2012, 11:55 am
@gonzo-166: I am sorry but nowhere am I suggesting that Bryce was blowing favouring Oz to suit NZ, he stated that it was pressure put on him by the Ozzies, O’neal to be precise. That made him “freeze” So I personally am not casting any doubt on your eventual win. However, if you have read my response to Poppa, there is nothing that will convince me that that match was an error!
17 Oct 2012, 11:56 am
@PissAnt-165: barks? No he is honking to Rassi who is hiding somewhere pressing buttons to light up the LED advertisment boards.
17 Oct 2012, 11:59 am
@trupisero-170:
Twins boet, two girls…
17 Oct 2012, 11:59 am
@RL-176:
you ae on a roll this week I see!
17 Oct 2012, 12:02 pm
Lance Armstrong…
Marion Jones
Hansie
Italian Football rigging
the list is endless……
poor Joe Public, paying all the hard earned bucks for DSTV…..match tickets, et al…..
Farken criminals tainting sport across the board, farken criminals…
17 Oct 2012, 12:05 pm
@willievz-172: @PissAnt-165:
PA exactly, I been saying for how long now, SA players have their natural skills coached out of them by our local coaches, I know i will get castagated in here for using the Sharks as an example of where it now seems players are allowed to thin k for themselves, Of course they are a long way off from where they need to be, but it seems to be one area of the game they are getting right.
Again their good defense and lots of tries scored by them as leading try scorers show this to be the case.
Our coaches and players need to stop having a afraid to lose mentallity, but have a losing is not an option mentallity. They must have a desire to win at all cost mentallity,
17 Oct 2012, 12:08 pm
@Sharksgirl-169:
hehehe sharksgirl, he didnt say he blew it anyones favour.
Here is the breakdown of the match from a UK paper.
As you can see Bryce got it wrong with the Ozzies as well. Infact Poms believe that Bryce was told by the IRB to calm down on the whistle as he made the Ireland vs Ozzie game a stop start affair.
Deans, though, cannot rely on stress and fear. Australia spent most of the quarter-final against South Africa in their own half, defending with a mixture of zeal and desperation. The Springboks played with ambition but lacked the skills to match. They conceded a soft try when Schalk Burger ran from a lineout near his own line, lost the ball after the prop Ben Alexander’s inadvertent steal, and the Wallaby captain, James Horwill, shrugged off Morne Steyn’s challenge to score after 11 minutes.
It was the only try of the match and came against the run of play. Burger atoned two minutes later when he made a try-saving tackle on Stephen Moore after Kurtley Beale broke from his own half, but when Heinrich Brussow was penalised at a ruck James O’Connor made it 8-0 after 15 minutes and, with the sun on their backs, the Wallabies seemed well set.
Then Australia’s possession dried up. Victor Matfield started stealing their lineouts and the Springboks kept the ball in hand. Their problem was that, once Brussow went off at the end of the first quarter with a rib injury, sustained after Dan Vickerman had entered a breakdown from the side and dropped his knee on the flanker, David Pocock took control of the breakdown.
South Africa complained long and hard that Australia were slowing down their ball but the referee Bryce Lawrence took the view throughout that, unless he saw a blatant offence, he would give both the attacking and defending sides latitude. The Wallabies did take advantage but the Springboks were not averse to entering a breakdown from the side and off their feet and Burger once got away with diving into a ruck off his feet and grabbing Pocock’s head before twisting it.
South Africa were also fortunate in the second half when Steyn body checked Digby Ioane as the wing chased his own chip into the Springboks’ 22 but was not even penalised for a cynical offence that merited a yellow card. For all their complaints about the anarchy at the breakdown South Africa created enough opportunities to have won comfortably.
All they had to show for playing 84% of the first half in Australia’s half was a late penalty by Steyn. The fly-half kicked South Africa into the lead after 59 minutes with a penalty and a drop goal after Matfield snaffled another Australia lineout.
But Fourie du Preez twice lost control of the ball with the line beckoning, three promising moves ended after forward passes were thrown and the Springboks, despite fielding their most experienced side ever, lacked composure.
They knew what they were about in 2007, a team that were at their most dangerous when the opposition were in possession, but the more they moved the ball on Sunday the less likely they looked to score. It was a triumph for Australia’s defence, led by Pocock, in what was a stereotype reversal with South Africa doing all the running.
The Australia fly-half Quade Cooper, who is returning to the city of his birth this week, had an evening when nothing he attempted came off. But he did make a try-saving tackle on Du Preez and, like his team, he kept going. When Danie Rossouw tipped Radike Samo to the ground at a lineout, O’Connor kicked the winning goal from 40 metres with nine minutes to go.
17 Oct 2012, 12:08 pm
@grant10-179: Kit KAt?????
17 Oct 2012, 12:09 pm
@sharks_lover-180:
The main problem is that coaches are trying to play the game for the players.
17 Oct 2012, 12:10 pm
@Sharksgirl-178: Hey good lady!!! you well??
You going to the game??
17 Oct 2012, 12:13 pm
@David-183: Also very true Dave,
I know Plum talks all the time about empowering the players?? maybe he is right.
If we had that attitude in the country with all the teams and all the top players surely we would get it right more often then not??
I am not saying for one minute the Sharks have it all right, but surely when looking at their play etc and now results, things are heading in the right direction?????
Can you Imagine not only Sharks players but all our top players playing this exciting brand and also being very strong defensively??
BUt it will never happen whilst we are svared to lose, the mindsets have to change to start with.
17 Oct 2012, 12:17 pm
Province by 10. Sharks by 5.
Final………… revenge.
17 Oct 2012, 12:22 pm
@PissAnt-177: Geluk tjom…..jou kak is geboek!
17 Oct 2012, 12:22 pm
@Hurricane-181:
I guess on Mr Bryce we will have to agree to disagree 
@sharks_lover-184: Hiya SL am very well thank you. Yes am going to the game although getting those tickets is a real mission if you are not in Durban! But I posted a suggestion on the Sharks official site, and they were very prompt in replying. Very soon we will be able to purchase tickets on line! Apparently, they assure me this is at an advanced stage so by start of SR we should be able to buy tickets on line. Murphy’s law as I have already set money aside from 13th cheque for season tickets
17 Oct 2012, 12:24 pm
@PissAnt-177: Baie geluk
17 Oct 2012, 12:26 pm
@Sharksgirl-188:
lol
I guess to a point, but we both agree he messed up a good quarter final.
17 Oct 2012, 12:32 pm
@sharks_lover-180:
Not at all man, most would agree the Sharks have the blueprint for how the Boks should be aiming to play.
Many saying now the coach (HM) should let the players make important decisions for themselves on the field and yet when I pointed out how Jantjies had the ball removed from his hands by his captain who didn’t have enough faith in him to execute a simple line kick (this after he’d already slotted 2 vital kicks) was indicative of a poor team culture many said I was overreacting.
17 Oct 2012, 12:33 pm
@Hurricane-190: on that point we agree
17 Oct 2012, 12:34 pm
@Hurricane-190:
Cane, the Boks had a ton of chances, but…..
If Bryce had blown a good game, the Boks would have won. Finished and klaar.
End of discussion
If O’neal really did put pressure on him, is this not the reason why O’neal quit? Just asking.
17 Oct 2012, 12:35 pm
@wpstormerbok-191:
You think JDV will make the squad for the EOYT?
I wouldn’t pick him, but the captaincy will probably save him.
17 Oct 2012, 12:37 pm
@Sharksgirl-175: Look, you’re much more polite (although not any more correct) than Bakkies when put across your conspiracy theory so I’ll let it rest. But that is in no way an admission that Bryce was biased, just cr*p
I just noticed we missed the one year anniversary of the match last week. A pity, Keo could have given us a look back at the game and some of the blogger highlights since
17 Oct 2012, 12:39 pm
@Sharksgirl-188: Awesome hun, will give you a call when i am there, not sure yet where i am sitting as my ticket is through the PTA Sharks supporters club, so hopefully will get to see you and hubby.
17 Oct 2012, 12:40 pm
@londonshark-194:
JdV is done but Heyneke’s stuck between the past and the future so will tag him along.
The brave decision would be for Meyer to cut the dead wood, proceed with the youngsters, implement a more balanced game and I’m sure most would give him much more room to develop the team even if we suffer some close losses on the EOYT.
17 Oct 2012, 12:41 pm
@londonshark-193: It probably has more to do with Deans than anything else. He didn’t want to be there when the ABs beat the Aussies again
17 Oct 2012, 12:44 pm
@londonshark-193:
haha
If he blew correctly Steyn would have been binned as would burger.:-)
Anyway all gone now,O’Neil,POB and Bryce.
By rights these guys were in the way of South African dominance.
Maybe next year
17 Oct 2012, 12:45 pm
@wpstormerbok-191: True mate,
17 Oct 2012, 12:45 pm
@trupisero-187: @willievz-189:
Thanks lads…
17 Oct 2012, 12:46 pm
@wpstormerbok-197:
Yep, it’s a shame.
I honestly feel we could set these guys out to pasture, and still win all 3 games, if just choose the right team.
I also hope that Meyer doesn’t really believe Taute is a long term 13 for the Boks.
17 Oct 2012, 12:48 pm
@Hurricane-199:
Mmmm, I could argue those ‘binnings’.
But ja, the path is clear, the Boks are coming
Well, maybe not in 2013, Meyer is aiming for a 2018 4N win. He is a bit slow like that. Bless him.
17 Oct 2012, 12:51 pm
@londonshark-194: Not sure if I’d pick him either.
17 Oct 2012, 12:52 pm
So… Marius wanker is the ref against the Lions, So I KNOW now that The Lions will be in the fINAL!!
Done deal, no need to worry anymore… time to make some serious cash out of the bookies…
17 Oct 2012, 12:53 pm
The sharks have Mark Lawrence against the Bulls… Lately feel he is the best ref we have.. although he favours the Bulls a bit..
17 Oct 2012, 12:57 pm
@londonshark-202: Taute is a very overrated player.
He has to play 13 for the Lions though, as Andries Coetzee is a better 15.
17 Oct 2012, 12:57 pm
@londonshark-203:
haha good stuff.
2018 sounds like a good year, better late than never.
17 Oct 2012, 12:58 pm
@willievz-207: He still has to impress me as well.. but I think he is a 15 and not a 13…
17 Oct 2012, 12:59 pm
so much anti-sa hate
all so unjustified
the kiwis on the other hand
17 Oct 2012, 13:00 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-140:
@sharks_lover-144:
17 Oct 2012, 13:00 pm
@Hurricane-208: How long did you wait for a World Cup since 87?
17 Oct 2012, 13:01 pm
me the supporter who pays for it all should just hand over my hard earned cash and except whatever end product is dished up. not only that, i must get lost because i don’t know what i’m talking about. is that about right jc? genius! why hasn’t anyone thought of this before. i think you may have stumbled onto a brilliant customer service strategy here. and of course the cherry on top is that you’re telling journos who don’t share your view that they know nothing
17 Oct 2012, 13:02 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-210:
What are you on about now??
17 Oct 2012, 13:02 pm
@Sharksgirl-192:
dont let these kiwis break you sharksgirl, keep telling the truth.
i would stay to help you clear them out (if they’re not willing to accept the facts) but i’ve been busy.
17 Oct 2012, 13:03 pm
@Provvas-212:
20 years i believe,why is that?
17 Oct 2012, 13:04 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-215:
Bakkies i thought you had missed that post lol
17 Oct 2012, 13:04 pm
@Hurricane-214:
always projecting and trying to turn the debate back on the people who point out your deeds.
there are serious issues and questions left on the table here when considering the state of nz’ers mental health on the whole.
17 Oct 2012, 13:04 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-215:
Only thing you clear out is your own brain cells
17 Oct 2012, 13:06 pm
@grant10-179:
good observation but
you have left you the biggest culprits in world rugby, boet?
why?
i dont understand?
why try to make a point and then only go half through with it?
dont be so camp(s bay)… say it like it is….
17 Oct 2012, 13:06 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-218:
So you told me the other night how us Maoris were in NZ etc etc even though you had no clue,now you going to tell us about our mental health?
Why do you need to be so much of an a$$hole?
Dont post things from websites etc. I have my beliefs and you have your own,lets leave it at that.
17 Oct 2012, 13:08 pm
@sharks_lover-217:
i dont trust it when they make eye contact with our girls :lol;
17 Oct 2012, 13:10 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-215:
Well I guess now I’ll remain strong! just no more excuses that you are too busy though 
17 Oct 2012, 13:12 pm
@Hurricane-219:
in your case its a question of keeping our enemies close.
feel our hatred and understand the justification for what we will do the day our springbok ship comes in.
you will suffer to a man for your teams actions….to a man…
17 Oct 2012, 13:13 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-222: lol
17 Oct 2012, 13:23 pm
@Hurricane-221:
i am considering investing with some guys i know who are looking to expand their business into arstrelasia. maybe open up a subsidiary in nz.
i dont actually know what the fark they do really but the idea of imposing springbok jerseys as the company dress code really apeals to me
@Sharksgirl-223:
you take the rght flank, i’ll take the left.
fire at everything in black
17 Oct 2012, 13:26 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-224:
Your hatred makes me laugh.
Its like the next door neigbours kitten hissing at me…. really not that scary.
Especailly when you hate on the wrong people, thats just as funny. Like the time graham henry cheated you guys out of a win in Argentina in this years RC…lol….
Well that springbok ship better get upgraded to steampower cos its been a while in between dockings.
17 Oct 2012, 13:29 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-226:
You cant do that to us !!!
17 Oct 2012, 13:30 pm
Oh well cya all.
Bakkies keep it real,catch ya dude.
17 Oct 2012, 13:32 pm
You know what I have come to love about fellows like Bakkies?: The consistency they provide in a world that is anything but….
It makes one feel safe.
The rand is up, the rand is down, petrol is up, petrol is down…..
Bakkies: he is always down (on the Kiwis). Very comforting.
17 Oct 2012, 13:40 pm
@Hurricane-227:
oh just you wait
@Hurricane-228:
@Hurricane-229:
cheers hurri
17 Oct 2012, 13:42 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-230:
the battle of good versus evil is eternal
17 Oct 2012, 13:44 pm
Yep SA rugby has moved with the times…
We have very mobile and skillful looseforwardd
We have a very fast and skillful 9
We have an attacking flyhalf who attacks the line
We have centres who break the line with awesome offloading ability
We a very good attacking Fullback
Oh wait… I was thinking about the All Blacks…
17 Oct 2012, 14:29 pm
“The Stormers and WP are not the only teams to be criticised in this manner.
Bok coach Heyneke Meyer’s game plan is considered by many to be overly conservative”
No JC, the gameplans are sterile on attack making it easy for sides with good defence to shut them out! The Stormers LOST most, if not all, the games where they were behind at half-time, they couldn’t claw their way back into games because their gameplan lacks the necessary balance between defence and attack! Look at the EVENTUAL winners of Super rugby, the Chiefs.
The stats show they were fourth best attacking team on the table [meaning they're ambitious on attack and can put points past teams] and sixth best defensive team. The top defensive team were the Stormers but they were only the 12th best attacking team in terms of points scored. The best attacking team, the Hurricanes, were only the 10th best defensive team. balance!
noone is looking for “helter skelter” exhibition stuff, both the Boks and Stormers need to be adventurous and incisive on attack!
the aim of the game is still to score more points than the opposition.
17 Oct 2012, 14:31 pm
@Transformation-234:
no transformation, everyone knows why the chiefs won it this season. it was plain as day for even the most one eyed kiwis.
17 Oct 2012, 14:33 pm
nothing to do with being fourth and sixth best attacking and defending team.
17 Oct 2012, 14:37 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-236: they “cheated”?
17 Oct 2012, 14:47 pm
I agree with one key point in this article – namely – defense should be a huge priority and most aspects of the team should revolve around a solid defenseive game. This includes player selection, which is why I don’t agree with people who say the dream backline would be 10: Goosen, 12: Lambie, 13: Jordaan, 14: Aplon, 11: Rhule, 15: Le Roux (for example).
If you don’t balance the team with a core of bigger guys who add physicality and strong defense, then you will get broken when guys like Manu Tuilagi, Jamie Roberts, Sonny Bill, Nonu etc run at you.
I disagree with the article however in the way it implies that the fans are wrong to want a more attacking threat from the Springboks…. It is true that a kicking game and defense are important factors, but to achieve balance, we need an attacking threat as well…. We have won 4 from 9 this year. Surely there’s room for improvement and I think the fans are right for wanting that.
The answer in rugbgy is almost always BALANCE.
The guys who want a backline fully consisting of 7 21 year olds who are all 5ft10 forget the importance of the big enforcers like Frans Steyn, JP Pietersen etc… The team needs these guys to achieve balance.
Likewise, Heyneke Meyer and most of the South African rugby fraternity who are obsessed with only selecting massive enforcers and playing a conservative game plan forget the importance of the attacking edge which guys like Jordaan and Aplon can provide…. The team also needs these guys to achieve balance.
A mix of big guys together with smaller, steppier guys… A mix of experience and youth… A mix of conservative game plan with some attacking plays too… Balance.
Balance, balance, balance!!!
17 Oct 2012, 14:53 pm
@Transformation-234: 100% agree.
17 Oct 2012, 14:57 pm
@Transformation-237:
that is very observant of you, transie
17 Oct 2012, 15:00 pm
Interesting…. The last four world cups have been won by teams knocked out of the qaurter finals in the previous edition.
17 Oct 2012, 20:15 pm
@Provvas-212: touché!
17 Oct 2012, 20:22 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-226: bakkies, this was a very funny post. More of this please, less of the other!
17 Oct 2012, 20:47 pm
So, why is it that all the NZ top tier NPC teams play open, attacking running rugby when the rules are exactly the same? And any of these teams would — in a head-to-head — teach WP the mother of all rugby lessons, for sure.
17 Oct 2012, 21:52 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-235:
Ummm Chiefs were there better team?
What else could it be?
17 Oct 2012, 22:14 pm
@Hurricane-245: When you think about it, Bakkies is like the Springboks. His strategy is to repetitively bash the opposition in the expectation that they will eventually crumble to his (perceived) superior strength. However, it is so predictable it has long since becomes boring and ineffective.
On the odd occassion that he surprises himself and posts with a bit of flair (humour) people listen. However, at the first sign of criticism he retreats back into the old ways which he knows and trusts – bash bash bash the Kiwis/Aussies/Argies/Sharks/Stormes/[anyone who is not from the Bulls] until they agree he is right (which will never happen, other than in pitying sarcasm).
When you think about it, it’s bloody obvious – BAKKIES IS HEYNEKE MEYER!!!!!
17 Oct 2012, 22:19 pm
@TheTackler-244: Tackles, it would be good to see a club competition like this, including some of the European clubs.
I don’t think you are right about the outcome tho. The Curry Cup teams play a lot of the top Springboks, whereas the NPC teams don’t. Also, the leading Curry Cup teams are essentially the same as the leading SA Super 15 teams, whereas NZ’s Super teams are all made up of several NPC teams.
Some of the NZ teams would do OK, particularly Canterbury and Waikato, but I think the others would get a hiding. The open rugby that Wellington have been playing for instance just wouldnt’ cut it against the Sharks, Bulls, Stormers.
Just MTCW.
17 Oct 2012, 22:30 pm
@corporal punishment-246: Mate, you’re on to something here but a pity no one is around to see it because they are probably banging their heads against the wall on the Kings thread (“you’re a racist”, “no you’re a racist!”). Surprised we haven’t seen Meyer furiously smashing a computer during games, ranting on Keo
17 Oct 2012, 23:01 pm
The AB’s have also focussed their backline attack on set pieces when all the players are in positions that are predictable, and where their loosies are set to cover in defnce if their backline makes mistakes. They also have a few loose play set moves that seem to work well.
Most of thier tries come from set moves off set pieces.
17 Oct 2012, 23:15 pm
Typical dribble from WP supporter Cardinelli.
The Sharks can score loads of tries and so can the NZ and Aus teams in Super Rugby.
No-one said run it like a headless chicken like the Lions did in last years Super 15, that is just plain stupid.
If the forwards lay the foundation with forward momentum, the backs can run wild. Too bad WP/Stormers can’t do that or the Boks because of a coach stuck in the past.
17 Oct 2012, 23:46 pm
@daydreamer-250: I agree Daydreamer. The NZ Super teams that have had a Lions like approach to rugby, run it from everywhere, have done badly in the Super comp over the last 10 years – eg the Hurricanes and Chiefs sides prior to 2012. Our most successful side, the Crusaders, have always had a forward orientated, minimise mistakes style of play. Yes they score plenty of tries, but this is the result of applying pressure through tight defence and playing low error rugby.
The All Blacks have adopted this style since 2010, reducing the number of superstar ball runners in the backline and instead preferring strong defenders and high ball gatherers like Jane and Kahui. Those two guys can of course attack, but it is not the harem skarum stuff that Roks and Sivi preferred.
The Bok’s problem is the opposite of the AB’s in 2009. You have generally been over balanced with safety first players, not enough guys who can defend but who are also good attackers.
Attacking flair is something that a 20yo player either has or doesn’t have. You aren’t going to teach it to them over the next 10 years of a professional rugby career – it’s simply impossible.
On the other hand, defensive ability can be tought over a 10 year career, and indeed most players with great attacking flair become more defensively orientated over time – e.g. Brian O’Driscoll was a weak defender at the start of his career, he is now one of the best.
Therefore I think the Boks MUST invest in players like Lambie, Jordaan and Janjties now, so that in 3 years time they have turned into more complete rugby players. These guys have world class attacking flair which can’t be taught to a crash bash plodder like Taute.
This is a really different POV to many of the Saffa posters on this site. They argue that the existing players can be coached to attack better, e.g. like the AB’s. However, I don’t think this is the case with any of the current line up – what you see is what you get re their attacking skills.
Whereas I have no doubt that players like Lambie, Goosen, Jordaan and Janjties can be taught to be better tacklers, injuries permitting of course.
Just MHO.
18 Oct 2012, 01:36 am
Shut up corporal punishment.
18 Oct 2012, 01:41 am
Posters on other threads suggesting that the boks bring in bakkies and Danie roussow for the eoyt… Bad move. Dinosaurs
18 Oct 2012, 01:59 am
Been reading a Paul Ackford article on Courtney Lawes in The Telegraph. Any Kiwi or Bok lock, including the older brigade like Thorne, Roussouw and Bakkies, are 10 times better than that idiot. Amazingly, the English posters in comments section reckon he’s more talented than Estebeth and Retallick (OK he’s better looking than Retallick, but that isn’t hard), some of the banter:
“I don’t see how either lock has shown themselves better locks than Lawes…”Hilarious. Retallick and Etzabeth are magnificent young players with skills and work-rates way beyond anything Lawes is capable of. Lawes is a Test Match nobody. Another athletic, hard nosed, modern lock, with a list of solid achievements: World Cup, Bledisloe Cup, Rugby Championship, is Sam Whitelock. He’s also younger than Lawes–and he doesn’t go round taking cheap shots at prone players or bashing halfbacks who have their backs turned
18 Oct 2012, 01:59 am
@McAwesome-252: shame you are back, I thought you’d been banned
18 Oct 2012, 02:10 am
@corporal punishment-254:
lol
Yeah the English are like that.
I remember when England found themselves a #10 that was younger than Carter.Big Hit on here saying this guy was faster, better tackler and better at attacking than Carter…..only to fail international rugby all together, just cannot remember his name.
18 Oct 2012, 03:00 am
@Hurricane-256: Was it Cirpriani? Or Goosen?? Lol
I hate English rugby and their supporters, love to see them lose. And I am English!
18 Oct 2012, 03:23 am
@corporal punishment-257:
lol
Yeah seem both have had there over the top reviews.
But it was Cipriani, i recall he had trouble with a few English players, i dont think he was liked that much…probably too full of himself.
But yeah has was the next world beater according to a few.
18 Oct 2012, 04:03 am
@corporal punishment-257:
You are English and you don’t support your side? Hate their supporters?
Jeez dude you are a sorry case, you would never hear a genuine Saffa or Keewee say that, Cape Crusaders excluded………..and you appear to be a rugby lover/kenner??
Whats the story?
18 Oct 2012, 04:13 am
@259 whatever… My family moved to NZ when I was v young when I was in the 70′s. don’t have any personal connection with the uk, and have always found their rugby supporters appallingly arrogant with no justification given how poor their rugby is.
I generally like South African fans, and admire much about South African rugby, although it all gets a bit feral in here on occasion!!
18 Oct 2012, 04:14 am
Sorry, we moved to NZ in the 70′s
18 Oct 2012, 04:46 am
@corporal punishment-260:
Fair enough dude……..yes it gets a bit MMA in here at times but I never take any of it seriously, IMO its all huff, pi ss taking and wind ups…………… a stress reliever as it were
18 Oct 2012, 04:47 am
@corporal punishment-261:
Was gonna say quite agile for an old f uk
18 Oct 2012, 04:48 am
Maybe on occasions some serious, genuine rugby is spoken, but its few and far between…………
18 Oct 2012, 05:31 am
@whatever-263:
Yeah not many 115 year olds can handle a computer like Corporal can.
18 Oct 2012, 05:32 am
@whatever-264:
This is true, take yourself as an example. 20% rugby , 80 % all cr@p.
18 Oct 2012, 05:58 am
That’s generous Hurricane I would have gone for a 90 10 split, good team picked for Brisbane.
18 Oct 2012, 06:16 am
Whatever@264. A laughably hypocritical post.
18 Oct 2012, 21:43 pm
one does not change “tact” you change “tack”
ffs
19 Oct 2012, 13:49 pm
i disagree entirely with the writer of this article blaming the laws for the gmae change.
the laws have nothing to do with it.
a lot of games at newlands have been so boring yet i have seen some brilliant games played under exactly the same laws.
what has changed is that winning has become everything particuarly amongst the professionals who only play for money unlike the past where enjoyment was the first priority.
and in those days we had refs just like to day but who new that they could ref their way without being prescribed from the top what to do.
further there were those refs who applied advantage so well that we did not have a stop start affair.
a backline player was just that and had no forwards who would slow down movements and bash away but let the backs do their job.
we even had refs who could award drops over/under from any angle unlike today when every try is virtually referred to the tmo who have a difficult job .
and i could go on and on.
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