Kings on the rise
18 Oct 2012
GARETH DUNCAN says the Kings should become a stronger entity than the Cheetahs, no matter what happens in the upcoming Currie Cup promotion-relegation play-offs.
The Free State Cheetahs are expected to beat the EP Kings in the Currie Cup promotion-relegation battle over the next fortnight.
Despite the Kings’ unbeaten run to the First Division title and the Cheetahs’ current injury crisis (a loss of 13 first-choice players, including flyhalf Johan Goosen, flank Heinrich Brussow and prop Coenie Oosthuizen), the Bloemfontein union is still considered favourites as they boast more players with experience of playing at higher levels.
I think the Kings will provide a challenge against a weakened Free State outfit. But I admit that domestic promotion would be a surprise, especially when you consider the fact that the current Kings side isn’t much stronger than the team that lost to the Pumas in the 2010 play-offs.
But look beyond this result and you’ll notice that the Southern Kings are making progress; to the extent where they are likely to become a more competitive team than the Cheetahs as soon as next season.
While the Stormers, Sharks and Bulls will be Super Rugby title contenders in 2013, the Cheetahs and Kings will battle in the wooden spoon race.
It’s something both franchises will want to avoid as the last-placed team is expected to face the Lions in the first South African Super Rugby promotion-relegation play-offs. I say expected because this format could still change if voted against at the next Saru Exco meeting; but that’s another story.
Many pundits expect the Kings to struggle because of the trend set by other tournament debutants. The Western Force and Melbourne Rebels have both finished last in their first campaigns in 2006 and 2011 respectively.
However, both Australian teams struggled because they were established from scratch. The Kings have a platform to work from in the EP Kings, Border and SWD.
They have a quality mentor in director of rugby Alan Solomons. He’s clearly had a positive effect on the EP Kings, who have only lost 10 out of 57 games in all domestic competitions since his arrival in June 2010. That’s a winning percentage of 82.4%.
The Kings team that will play in Super Rugby will also be much stronger than the side that has featured on the domestic scene over the last two seasons. They have signed the likes of centre Andries Strauss, lock Steven Sykes, flyhalf Demetri Catrakilis and hooker Bandise Maku, and have four internationals in wing Paul Perez, prop Clint Newland, scrumhalf Nicolas Vergallo and utility back Hadleigh Parkes. More reinforcements will arrive during the build-up to the 2013 campaign.
The only complication is that the Kings will only be allowed two of those foreigners in their final squad that they declare to Saru. The other two will be allowed in the wider squads and will be able to be called up in case of injury. There’s also a chance that Saru might accommodate the Kings, who are still requesting that the restrictions be lifted.
The Cheetahs haven’t impressed in Super Rugby since their readmission in 2006. They have won 27 out of 84 games (a winning percentage of just 32%) during this period and their highest finish has been 10th place.
They have lost key players since this year’s Super Rugby campaign in No 8 Ashley Johnson (London Wasps, England), prop WP Nel (Edinburgh, Scotland) and lock George Earle (Scarlets, Wales). The departures of flyhalf Sias Ebersohn (Western Force), lock Izak van der Westhuizen (Edinbugh), prop Marcel van der Merwe (Bulls) and Strauss at the end of the year will also cost the squad depth.
In reply, the Cheetahs have only signed on props Caylib Oosthuizen (Lions) and Rossouw de Klerk (Bulls), centre Johann Sadie (Bulls) and flyhalf Elgar Watts (Boland). Griquas will provide some depth, but the Cheetahs won’t be able to afford injuries to key players.
If you look a bit deeper, you’d see the Free State and EP junior teams are also experiencing contrasting fortunes.
This season, the Free State U21s only won four out 12 league games. Their U19s only won three of their 12 fixtures.
The EP U21s and U19s topped their respective logs in the B Divisions, with the former team securing the provincial title. They will compete for promotion to the A Division.
Transformation is also evident in EP’s junior teams, which bodes well for the future. The Southern Kings will also be able to tap into the top black talent in SWD and Border’s junior structures. However, Super Rugby participation will be vital in retaining these young players.
While many in the South African rugby fraternity are worried about the Lions, it looks like the Cheetahs are also struggling. And at all levels too.
These are still early days, but a power change has already begun by the looks of it. The Kings are on the rise, while the Cheetahs are headed in another direction.
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327 Comments
18 Oct 2012, 07:58 am
next year will be fascinating…that is for sure.
18 Oct 2012, 08:05 am
Now this is the biggest load of trash i’ve read in about…hmmmm….1 day on this site.
The Cheatahs have 13 players injured and will still klap the Queens easily. Now you would believe that the Queens will be better than them next year after all these players are back from injury?
Kings will end sone last in the S15 next year and be relegated soon thereafter, unless SARU pulls some dodgy deals again.
18 Oct 2012, 08:05 am
“…the last-placed team is expected to face the Lions in the first South African Super Rugby promotion-relegation play-offs. I say expected because this format could still change if voted for at the next SARU Exco meeting; but that’s another story.”
Gareth, I’m most interested in this “other story.” Seems to me like the SARU dragons are already attempting to shift the goalposts once again. Please give us some more info on the “other story.”
Thanks
18 Oct 2012, 08:09 am
@BrumbiesBoy-3: I already reported on it: http://keo.co.za/2012/08/23/sarus-super-rugby-solution-not-set-in-stone/
18 Oct 2012, 08:10 am
@GarethDuncan-4: Thanks.
Appreciated.
18 Oct 2012, 08:15 am
@GarethDuncan-4: The only way Kings will stay in SR – you can’t seriously think they will be competitive??
18 Oct 2012, 08:18 am
@GarethDuncan-4: ok so what you are basically saying is that come the last quarter of the competition, with the Cheetahs looking to be a likely relegation playoff candidate, that there will suddenly be an announcement on the Lions and Cheetahs merging to form the “New Cats” ???
18 Oct 2012, 08:20 am
@trupisero-6: I do. @stormersboy-7: LOL nice try…
18 Oct 2012, 08:21 am
On another note -
Jean should make Bok tour
2012-10-17 18:28Cape Town – Western Province revealed that captain Jean de Villiers will miss the remainder of the Currie Cup with a Grade One hamstring strain, but he is not considered doubtful for the Springboks’ year-end tour next month.
The WP and Bok skipper was sent for a scan on Wednesday afternoon after being forced to withdraw from this weekend’s Currie Cup semi-final clash against the Golden Lions.After consultation with the WP team doctor, Arthur Williams, and further advice from a specialist, De Villiers faces a three-week layoff. However, the experienced centre is not considered doubtful for the Springboks’ year-end tour of Ireland, Scotland and England in November.Marcel Brache will take De Villiers’s placed in the WP midfield against the Lions at Coca-Cola Park on Saturday (19:00 kick-off), with flanker Deon Fourie taking over as captain.Sport24
18 Oct 2012, 08:22 am
This is probably the biggest load of Highbury Shafieka Media spin bullshiit I have ever read.
The Cheetahs finished 10th on the S15 log with 5 wins. And were the darlings of the competition in the eyes of the NZ and Aus media because of the way they played.
A Cheetahs side with Goosen, Coenie, Heinrich, Sadie, etc etc would put 50 – 70 points on that Kings side.
18 Oct 2012, 08:24 am
In terms of Defence though we really missed FSteyn & JPP against blacks. Unsettled 10 obviously did not help, shame Goosen injured, step backwards. Lambie/Jannies please step up!
18 Oct 2012, 08:29 am
@GarethDuncan-8: You’re deluded. Then again that may be a requirement to work here.
@John Galt-10: Precisely.
18 Oct 2012, 08:32 am
@GarethDuncan-8: Actually, why this wasn’t done as a 1 year deal escapes me. It’s obvious that the Cheetahs are really struggling with sponsors and retaining players, something that the Lions could really help them with.
SARU have recently gone on record as saying that the Lions will not suffer financially as a result of the relegation but this would have been a way to kill 2 birds with one stone. Saru could just compensate the Unions for merging and so no money is lost to the Unions.
If the Cats (essentially a Cheetahs base team with Lions boosted players) didn’t finish last, which would be likely given the greater depth in players, the Lions players would then leave the Cats and play as the Lions against the Kings for promotion again. With the Lions being able to retain the core of their team this way they would be favorites to win and therefore send the Kings packing again..
Bobs your uncle.
18 Oct 2012, 08:33 am
Cue Katman and Bakkies…
18 Oct 2012, 08:35 am
Fair point Galti.The question is what will happen when the sharks raid them for their last few available talent….which can never be discounted.I agree with G. here.The Kings have taken the march on the Cheetahs in terms of better management and junior structures.I would support Saru if they change the rules to keep the Kings in super rugby.They should never have been given one year in the first place.
18 Oct 2012, 08:36 am
@John Galt-10:
I am not so sure.
Goosen, Coenie and Bussow are all very injury proned while Sadie has been he failure of the year after all the hype.
Depending on who else might join the Kings, they might just (badly) surprised a few people.
I won’t say they will beat the Cheetahs next year but Gareth is right in the sense that they are a team on the rise while the Cheetahs are going downwards (when was the last time they ended last in the CC?) .
18 Oct 2012, 08:38 am
Gareth D you are a bloody moron – did they sign Maku? Does he know that he signed for the Kings? Pffffft.
And since when does SARU, which according to Jurie Roux is the unions – allow for more than 2 foreign players for the franchises. Pfffffft
You are Keo lap dog doing his dirty work man – grow a pair be your writer!
18 Oct 2012, 08:39 am
Firstly, finishing 10th out of 15 teams is not that bad. The Cheetahs have actually done very well as they’ve performed at least on par with the Hurricanes over the last two seasons. Now let us compare first teams:
15 Le Roux
14 Rocco Jansen
13 Sadie
12 Ebersohn
11 Rhule
10 Goosen
9 van Zyl
8 Karemaker/ Philip vd Walt
7 Labuschagne/ possibly Juan Smith/ Wilkens
6 Brussow/ Schoeman
5 Izak vd Merwe
4 Martin Muller
3 Coenie Oosthuizen/ Adriaanse
2 Adriaan Strauss
1 Caylib Oosthuizen
Now someone at the Kings pick the best possible team for them.
18 Oct 2012, 08:41 am
@wnbb-15: They are actually doing better each year in the Super 15.
18 Oct 2012, 08:42 am
@Robzim-16: To be fair to the Cheetahs, this is a 6 team CC as apposed to the previous 8 team format, where finishing a close 6th (any of 4 of the teams could have finished 6th depending on the combinations of results of the last league game of the season) is not as dismal as people make it out to be.
18 Oct 2012, 08:43 am
@Horings-18: And we have a winner!
18 Oct 2012, 08:44 am
Gareth,
There is a difference in the factors you highlight being short term benefits and long term benefits.
Yes the ‘structures’ within the Kings, how they improved in 1st division rugby and their age group sides may be a good indication of what is to come in 3 or 4 years time – but its not going to help them **** in 2013 where they will end stone last.
We can all justify the need of the EC to be included in Super Rugby, I have been trying to do it since 2006.
But there is simply no justification in the decision SA Rugby has made with their inclusion in 2013. The damage that a 1-year deal will cause the Kings will take years to repair.
18 Oct 2012, 08:47 am
That said, Cheetahs are apparently in some financial strife.
18 Oct 2012, 08:47 am
The Cheetahs have the two best fetchers currently playing in SA. They have the best flyhalf. A very good front row. The most exciting back three in SA. If they had a Frans Steyn in their midfield, an international lock and if they could convince Juan Smith to stay with them then they would compete for top spot.
I predict they will end up better than 10th as they have 10 points to start with. They got in the region of 6 points each year from the Lions in the last two years.
18 Oct 2012, 08:48 am
@stormersboy-20:
It is true what you are saying regarding the last position- it could have been any of the 4- but traditionally the Cheetahs are front runners in the currie cup even winning it occasionally, so in that sense they were disappointing.
18 Oct 2012, 08:50 am
@Horings-24:
Predictions are very hard to make– especially if it is about the future
18 Oct 2012, 08:50 am
no more Kings threads, please!
18 Oct 2012, 08:54 am
1. Oosthuizen, De Klerk
2. Strauss, Barnes
3. Oosthuyzen, Adriaanse
4. Ferreira, Uys
5. Muller, Landman
6. Brussow, Schomenan
7. Labuschagne, Viljoen
8. Van Der Walt, Floors
9. Van Zyl, De Bruyn
10. Goosen, Brummer
11. Jansen Benjamin
12. Ebershon, Venter
13. Ruhle, Sadie
14. Smit, Scheepers
15. Le Roux, Daniller
Decent 30 with a few more from both Cheetahs and Griquas pushing to be part of the squad.
Here’s hoping Cheetahs can get Juan Smit to stay too.
The key to Cheetahs improvement is CONTINUITY!
They always show promise and can so often rightfully be tagged as very possibly giant killers.
But just when they look like they are getting it together, what happens?
PLAYERS LEAVE!
18 Oct 2012, 08:55 am
@Horings-24: and if Pigs had wings they could fly, seriously??!! if you think that Cheetahs (who are my 2nd favourite team) have any chance of cracking the top 10 with their limited resources, not to mention limited coach, you are one delusional rugby fan.
18 Oct 2012, 08:56 am
The irony of this all is there are whispers earlier in the year of some sort of partnership between the Cheatahs and the Kings.
18 Oct 2012, 09:00 am
I really do not get why people are so against the Kings. I mean you will get the same excuses of the Watsons and the death of Lions rugby but why hate a whole region because of two people? Some of the people on the anti Kings crusade were saying the Lions are a waste and they can’t wait for them to get relegated. Now all of a sudden the Lions, who have only themselves to blame, are the darlings with their cheerleader in chief Greame Joffee. Its not really that bad having competion in any sport. Next year all teams will fight and scrap for everything. Which will be good for us in the end.
18 Oct 2012, 09:03 am
Bahahahaha, what a poor article. The free state is the breeding ground for boks, if you had a state of origin tournament, it would be a blood bath. no province can compete with the talent coming out of the free state. It is just unfortunate that the union can not generate more money to keep these players.
18 Oct 2012, 09:05 am
Wogga so is the EC.
18 Oct 2012, 09:05 am
1. Nyakana 2. Strauss (captain) 3. Oosthuyzen 4. Smith (vice-captain) 5. Muller 6. Brussow 7. Labuschagne 8. Van Der Walt 9. Van Zyl 10. Goosen 11. Jansen 12. Eberson 13. Ruhle 14. Smit 15. Le Roux
16. De Klerk 17. Barnes 18. Ferreira 19. Schoeman 20. De Bruyn 21. Sadie 22. Daniller
That’s a tough 22 to oppose.
18 Oct 2012, 09:09 am
@skunk-31: that is my point as well, dont hate the players and the team, lay the blame where this mess belongs, with the administrators, whether is be political influence from the Watsons, the incompetence from SARU or the Lions suits who ran a proud union into the ground financially, they are the ones who should feel the brunt of the fan’s anger and not the players in the respective teams, i say to all, support all SA sides in SUPER Rugby, be it Lions, Kings or even the Sharks as those are our countrymen but hold the suits accountable for their actions.
18 Oct 2012, 09:12 am
@skunk-31: Joffe is a joke.
The podgyfucker should be sending off lists and lists and lists and lists of questions to the Lions executive, instead of wasting his hard earned calories on trying to bust the Kings ….
Then again, in the Lions case (for some reason) no-one seems prepared to put in the hard investigative yards needed to determine justwhatthefuck the entire GLRFU has been doing or NOT doing for a decade….(Then again, I guess fellows like Joffe are too scared to dip into that cesspit for fear of what he might find…….stuff that would make the Kings look like choirboys is what I’m guessing)
18 Oct 2012, 09:13 am
Would be a crime to rugby to see the cheetahs relegated, a union that has survived the cc for near on 100 years with little to no support and despite having all their talent taken every season, significantly more than the ep.
They already have the performances eched into cc folklore.
Who will ever forget their 2005 win at loftus and ollie smoking his cigar….and that from a bull. Or their near loss 4 years later coming back from21-0 down and taking the game up to the very last minute.
Sorry, but the ep has some way to go yet.
18 Oct 2012, 09:13 am
@MacToogie-29: They did finish 10th with the same limited coach and squad. Now they have a 10 point start and they miss out on playing the Crusaders and Brumbies. Two games they would probably have lost.
18 Oct 2012, 09:14 am
@Wogga22-32: @puff-34: it’s only because when they do produce players, it’s sort-off unexpected bonus.
The bulk of talent always comes from Bulls, Stormers and Sharks.
Care for me to compile a team from each province?
18 Oct 2012, 09:14 am
@Robzim-26:
as aposed to predictions about the past
18 Oct 2012, 09:15 am
@Horings-24: And when 4 of those players you mention are injured? As is currently the case? The depth of a paddling pool takes on new meaning.
18 Oct 2012, 09:16 am
@gunther-30: King Cheats…..has a ring to it
18 Oct 2012, 09:17 am
breeding grounds. now I’m not english, but surely there’s a better term.
18 Oct 2012, 09:17 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-41: rather woory about your team getting their arses paddled this weekend.
18 Oct 2012, 09:19 am
@PissAnt-23: the only thing keeping the Cheetahs alive are the players they get from the Griquas. Now when the Griquas get relegated from the Currie Cup (read Jurie Roux’s definition of this) the FS will be in beeeeg kak.
Small support base, small sponsors, no possibility of hosting test matches. Eish!
18 Oct 2012, 09:19 am
Jeesus, Gareth, this is a rubbish article. I’m sorry to have to put it so bluntly, but you’ve wasted your time (and mine) here.
You boldly state, on two occasions, that the Kings should become stronger than the Cheetahs, but you offer no real reason for why this should be. Your strongest argument is probably that they have Solomons as a coach, but all the rest of your evidence actually points to them struggling, not improving.
The Cheetahs are missing 13 first choice players. You said this yourself in as many words.
The Cheetahs have a winning percentage of 32% in SR, but you offer no reason why the Kings should even get near this number. In fact, you admit that they probably won’t.
The Cheetahs juniors have won 3 from 12 and 4 from 12 respectively while the Kings have topped their log… IN THE B DIVISION, as you rightly point out. Chuck them in with the big boys and what do you think will happen?
And if the biggest signings are Sykes, Catrikilis, Strauss and Maku, then all this smoke you’re blowing up their arses in this article is not even worth calling a joke.
I know you’re toeing the keo party line here and just following his PR strategy. But you’re going to have to learn to do a more convincing job. Ask keo to help you here.
18 Oct 2012, 09:20 am
@Horings-38: ok, maybe i should be more specific, lets see them try crack the top 10 on a consistent basis, and now you state they could compete for top spot? really?? Cheetahs are losing players to everyone, Including the Kings, they have never been able to hold onto a core of players for longer than 2 years but now they have a shot at the playoffs? i shake my head. like i said, i like the Cheetahs spirit but i am realistic in their prospects in SR. my belief is they need to get rid of the boys club mindset there in Bloem, Naka is not up to scratch and any other coach would have been sacked for the returns he has brought both in CC and SR
18 Oct 2012, 09:21 am
@trupisero-6: As oppose to the Lions ? Or even the Cheetahs ? YES !!! I am just about sick and tired of everyone shooting down the Kings and wishing a loss for them but forgetting a decade of just plain **** from the likes of the Lions and to a lesser extent the Cheetahs. Granted the Cheetahs improved a lot but only recently , so its been like 8 years of mediocre for them ?
Then those that says that they wish the Kings will lose and they will even support the otherseas teams against the Kings , I politely say get a LIFE !! Every year we read how the Cape ABS supporters are traitors and confused and this and that but now suddenly its okay to support a foreign team against SA opposition ? Hypocrytes !
So the Kings are here to play S15 , instead of wishing them to lose and being negative about the whole thing why not support them ? Do they deserve to be in S15 ? Off course , the Region was promised participation for the last few years , they invested heavily in getting the structures right and bringing in certain personal. We all know that previously the EP Region was robbed blindly , money just disappeared , however that seems to be a thing of the past with Cheeky there and you cannot get a better director of Rugby than Alan Solomons in SA in my opinion. The man is legend.
Do the Lions deserve to be out ? No its a sad day that there is will no S15 rugby at Ellis park , however thats SARU fault and to be fair the Lions made it very easy for them with k@k rugby , poor security which lead to poor attendence and mind boggling mismanagement of players , funds and coaches !
I mean look at the players that left the Lions and continue to run for the lives in Droves, Look at the coaches that they hired then fired. Why was **** Muir so long on their books ? What did he actually do there ? Why was Jake paid all that Money ? How did it benefit the Lions ? Why did their Sponsors bail so early (Gumde) , who drew up contracts for the likes of Jaque Fourie and Mujati etc etc ? Where did the money go that they supposed to the pay their partner Regions ? The list goes on , Sad as I am to see a team lose out on S15 Rugby I cannot help but feel that maybe they need a time out to get their house in order.
The time now is not to divide but to all support , support the stormers , support the Bulls (but not when they play the stormers !!) support all the SA teams !! We are blessed with a rugby culture that is the envy of the world , we have better stadiums and facilities at Varsity level than most countries , we have an amazing exciting young group of Talent coming through ! Lets Celebrate instead !!
Viva the Kings !!!! I for one will be supporting them 100% no matter what and you know what, say in 2014 and the Lions play instead of the Kings then I will support them with the same enthusiasm.
18 Oct 2012, 09:21 am
@Transformation-27:
definitely overkill.
18 Oct 2012, 09:22 am
More of the usual **** dished up from keo and his cronies.
I find it very interesting that the fact that the Griquas jion with Free State to from the Super Rugby Cheetahs has been completely lost on Gareth…
A side that finished ahead of an injury-ravaged Free State and beat the Lions, the defending champions, twice…
Quite amusing really…
A full strength Cheetahs Super Rugby side will put 50 on the Kings…
Looking forward to watching this walking 5 pointer of a Kings side play next season… Competitive? Hahahaha
18 Oct 2012, 09:24 am
More of the usual **** dished up from keo and his cronies.
I find it very interesting that the fact that the Griquas jion with Free State to from the Super Rugby Cheetahs has been completely lost on Gareth…
A side that finished ahead of an injury-ravaged Free State and beat the Lions, the defending champions, twice…
Quite amusing really…
A full strength Cheetahs Super Rugby side will put 50 on the Kings…
Looking forward to watching this walking 5 pointer of a Kings side play next season… Competitive? Hahahaha
18 Oct 2012, 09:24 am
Gareth Duncan is trolling.
18 Oct 2012, 09:25 am
WHY SO MANY KINGS THREADS?
Who gives a f’ck about the Kings?
Down with the Kings. May their time in Super rugby be a short one.
18 Oct 2012, 09:25 am
I actually enjoy reading his senseless rants though. They are a bit incoherent but funny. I doubt he actually gives a flying toss about the Lions or Kings. He just seems to want to pin Keo. Maybe he was not considerd for a job here. We would be a good fit here though.
18 Oct 2012, 09:27 am
@stormersboy-13: Kevin de Klerk on Harold Verster after the unions voted 23 to 6 for the Lions to pack up:
De Klerk was also disappointed with the behaviour of some of the other franchises – who initially stood together and sent a letter to SARU as a unit, saying: ‘That none of the existing franchises shall be eliminated from the tournament in 2013 or at any stage thereafter as a result of the inclusion of the Kings.’
“The other guys ran, just like we expected them to run, especially my ‘pal’ there in the Free State … he is known for that,”
18 Oct 2012, 09:28 am
I said they could compete for top spot if they had all of Frans Steyn, let us say Etzebeth, Juan Smith and quality depth. That is a big if, and that is why they will end 10th or a bit better.
18 Oct 2012, 09:28 am
The one thing i will enjoy next year is the comments if the Kings win and that win helps one of the other sides. Will be priceless. As things are i think the Kings should field a young team as they are being set up to lose. Might as well get benefit from it. Groom youngsters and get them currie cup ready…
18 Oct 2012, 09:31 am
Viva Kings, Viva!
18 Oct 2012, 09:33 am
@Horings-56: I mean add the 3 world class players mentioned together with Brussow, Strauss, Oosthuizen, Goosen. Add to this Willie Le Roux, Sadie, Ebersohn (who many said should start for the Boks), Lappies Labuscagne, Piet van Zyl, Rhule who are all very exciting youngsters then I would have been worried.
18 Oct 2012, 09:34 am
Horings stay of the amber stuff in the morning. Cheetahs will end just above the Kings. We have seen that Goose is not ready yet physically for the high pressure stuff (but we know he will be played and will end up jus like Pretoors). They will get whipped as the lions are gone. And i suspect the kings will not be running from all corners like those two…
18 Oct 2012, 09:34 am
@Robzim-26:
Sounds more like wishful thinking if you ask me. Facts just don’t back up the argument. On paper they have the players, injuries and other unavailabilities(poaching by Sharks and possible bankruptcy) not factored in.
18 Oct 2012, 09:35 am
@skunk-57: “The one thing i will enjoy next year is the comments if the Kings win…”
Won’t happen pal!
Highly doubt the Kings will win any game.
18 Oct 2012, 09:35 am
@John Galt-10: Well, guess what ?, we will all get to see that your prediction coming good or showing you up as an s
18 Oct 2012, 09:35 am
@skunk-57: Youngsters are only groomed when thet play next to some world class players. Throwing a bunch of youngsters into an 18 week international competition could break them, literally.
18 Oct 2012, 09:36 am
@skunk-31: sad really .They accuse the Kings of being part of the so-called SA sickness of entitlement,but conveniently forget about the other sickness…’rewarding incompetence ‘,when it comes to the lions.
18 Oct 2012, 09:36 am
With every piece of blatant Kings PR propaganda posted here, the resentment just grows and grows. If the political favouritism to give them a leg-up into the competition at the expense of another team (and many rugby careers) is not enough to make regular SA rugby fans loath them, then this media spin bombardment certainly is.
So carry on, keo. You’re our best man on the job.
18 Oct 2012, 09:37 am
@Horings-56: but you are talking of a reality that would never come about so it makes no sense, you might as well say if the Cheetahs had Carter, Pocock, Sonny, Bismark, Matfield and all other stars they could be competitive. debate the reality of the Cheetahs situation not what could be if they had the finances and resources to build a team.
18 Oct 2012, 09:37 am
@trupisero-44: Like that would be any sort of shock to me?
18 Oct 2012, 09:39 am
@Transformation-55: Well,23 votes against should be a clear enough message for the Lion King.
18 Oct 2012, 09:40 am
With all first-choice players on the field, Cheetahs should steamroll Kings. But currently the Cheetahs are reeling and have a lot of injured players while the Kings have their tails up. Stranger things have happened…
18 Oct 2012, 09:40 am
@skunk-60: Why would the Cheetahs do worse than in the last two years where they ended 10th and 11th. 40 points in 2010 and 38 points this year. You get 8 points for free. So for the Kings to get close they need to get at least 30 points to match the Cheetahs last two season’s performances. Explain where they will get 10 points then we can move on to the next 10?
18 Oct 2012, 09:40 am
Has Bandise Maku signed with the Kings or not?
And is Deon Fourie staying in the Cape or going overseas?
18 Oct 2012, 09:41 am
@wnbb-65: ….or keeping incompetent people in jobs.
18 Oct 2012, 09:41 am
Horings
They already have a couple of gud signings. Sykes and Strauss and all the rest. Its useless getting 29 yo journey men to get flogged week in week out.
18 Oct 2012, 09:42 am
@wnbb-65: This is why I am so keen to see someone (anyone) dig into the Lions affairs. The levels of incompetence they have exhibited makes them deserving of support and sympathy?
18 Oct 2012, 09:43 am
@puff-72: Fourie is going,but the other one you have to ask Keohane,apparently the Kings super agent as per the Jofman.
18 Oct 2012, 09:44 am
@Wogga22-32: What you fail to grasp is the number of U/13 EP & Border players who end up playing craven week and provincial rugby for Free State because of non existence of franchise rugby in the EC, most of these Grey Bloem players are there on scholarships and are boarders from the EC. They are not born and raised in Bloem, Grey is a rugby nursery, then a school.
18 Oct 2012, 09:44 am
@MacToogie-67: My point was meant to be hypothetical. I am not saying they can compete for top spot. I am saying they will get around 44 points next season which will place them in the top 10 next season.
18 Oct 2012, 09:44 am
Horings
The union is in turmoil and they will be the new Lions.
Ps the Lions fans are crying that the Kings stayed up because of favors yet they seem to forget they have been kept in it for the past few years by favors. Pot and kettle stuff.
18 Oct 2012, 09:46 am
Kings v Lions
Kings v Cheetahs
I’m not reading this kuk
Am up to my eyeballs already
18 Oct 2012, 09:46 am
@XhosaKid-77: Guys go from Pretoria to Grey, because of their rugby culture. Nothing to do with Super rugby exposure. It is because of the school.
18 Oct 2012, 09:47 am
@puff-72: I wish Maku was coming to Cape Town….
18 Oct 2012, 09:47 am
PR hogwash, Gareth, from first word to last. I hope Cheeky and the Kings pay you handsomely for this trash.
Free State has long been the premier nursery of talent, keeps producing great players when the top provinces conduct their annual raids. The Kings, on the other hand, wallow in self pity and make demands. One’s a winner, the other a whinger. And there’s just one of them that has long been a cellar dweller, with nothing in the trophy cabinet to show for it. Nothing, niks, fokkall.
18 Oct 2012, 09:49 am
And watch out for Sadie at the Cheetahs. It is very difficult for a centre to fit into the Bulls gameplan. I have seen it with a number of players. Jaco Pretorius for example was a very attacking outside centre and he had to change his game dramatically to fit in.
18 Oct 2012, 09:51 am
I am sad for true Lions fans,but nobody should have absolute monopoly on mediocrity.I know true Lions fans that are glad that the nightmare has finally come to an end.They believe it’s a great opportunity to get their house in order first.Btw,I am not taking about Katman and Rl here now.
18 Oct 2012, 09:52 am
@skunk-79: The union is in turmoil. Explain?
18 Oct 2012, 09:53 am
@skunk-79: All the Lions fans need to do, is demand some sort of independent investigation into their own union’s affairs. I feel the unfounded hatred for the Kings, might just disappear after that.
Lions fans might just get the answers they are looking for tucked away in the minutes of meetings from 2003, 2005 and 2006?
If the Lions fans are hating on anyone – it should be their own executive surely to maggots?
18 Oct 2012, 09:54 am
@wnbb-85:
“…nobody should have absolute monopoly on mediocrity”
Too true, not a single Currie Cup trophy in its entire history, much of which has been spent collecting the wooden spoon when in the top echelons of the Currie Cup, failing to do much more than a mid-table finish when in the bottom league. And a fin ancial basketcase, to boot.
18 Oct 2012, 09:54 am
@Horings-84: Now you are talking total bollie now.Sadie had his opportunity and blew it because of arrogance and entitlement.
18 Oct 2012, 09:56 am
@Joe Maher-88: Stick to super rugby,joe….please.Thanks in advance.
18 Oct 2012, 09:56 am
@skunk-74: I am waiting for those 10 points the Kings need to get within 20 points of the Cheetahs…
18 Oct 2012, 09:56 am
@Transformation-55:
Handsoppers.
18 Oct 2012, 09:58 am
@wnbb-90: …oh,and by the way,joe,I know that they won a super ten title way back in the Stone Age.
18 Oct 2012, 09:58 am
“Transformation is also evident in EP’s junior teams, which bodes well for the future” ??? This is like one of those test papers when you just write whatever to get the page full.
18 Oct 2012, 09:59 am
@wnbb-85: I told you already, until you get dewormed you don’t even as much as mention my name. Now lie down.
Good boy.
18 Oct 2012, 10:01 am
@Transformation-55: I recall, but at the same time this should go beyond personal pettiness.
But maybe I’m expecting too much.
Anyway the path is decided, we’ll just have to wait and see who stays the course.
18 Oct 2012, 10:01 am
@wnbb-93:
Which is a whole lot more than the Kings or any of their previous names – the Mighty Elephants being my favourite…so similar to the Democratic Republic of Congo in its absolute hilarity – have ever won. At any level, in any compoetition, dating back well into the dark ages of its establishment as a rugby union.
The word mediocre was created for the Kings/EP.
18 Oct 2012, 10:02 am
@WP_-50: refer to post @GarethDuncan-8: he was here for 5 minutes to defend this… then the magnitude in error of prose and substance dawned on him… and bolted.
18 Oct 2012, 10:05 am
@shooter-98: Haha, indeed. Out of his depth it seems
18 Oct 2012, 10:08 am
@katman-95: I know that you are a ‘loner control freak’,but unfortunately you’re a Lions fan and indirectly part of the problem. ,so your name will be mentioned from time to time.Sit up and take some notes,might do you some good or you can wait for skoppie to arrive and try your school yard bully tactics on him.
18 Oct 2012, 10:09 am
My prediction is they will win against the Force in the first week, because of all the hype and then they will get one point on tour. one point at home against the Cheetahs and one bonus point elsewhere.
That gives them 15 points in total. The Cheetahs scored 40 points last year and 38 this year. Let us say they play below par and only score half of their points (excl bye points), then they will get 23 points. This is a highly unlikely scenario as the only games the Lions won were against the Cheetahs.
Then we take into account that the Cheetahs will play all of the worse NZ and Aus teams and the Rebels will miss out on playing the Blues and will therefore play against all of the better NZ teams.
18 Oct 2012, 10:12 am
@katman-66:
Well that right there is exactly it.
Was chatting to mates who went to Grey PE and St Andrews etc, guys who played for EP and Border etc Rugby at school boy level and even they were growing resentful at how this whole thing has panned out.
I remember being at Varsity with them years ago and they used to wax lyrical about the good ol’ days at Boet Erasmus and some of the legends that played there. In the past I would have been happy to include the EP region in SA rugby.
But not like this. All this does is fuel the resentment.
@XhosaKid-63:
Look Xhosa, im not against EP Rugby. In fact, due to some of my closer mates, Ive always had a soft spot for the region and its rugby history.
But the way this whole saga has been handled, I cant help but feel a certain morbid hope to see them fail. And its got nothing to do with the region itself or the players. But everything to do with the Kings and SARU administrators who got us into this mess in the first place.
18 Oct 2012, 10:13 am
@katman-95: KAtman, you must be absolutely torn apart and heart wrenched that Poodlefekker does not feel sorry for you
18 Oct 2012, 10:15 am
@wnbb-76:
It is incredibly frustrating when a player shows his worth and proves to be so valuable ala Deon Fourie and Francois Louw and then goes and signs overseas.
I know there are a lot of factors involved in making such a decision and I don’t begrudge the player these choices. It is the player’s career after all and I would hate for someone else to make choices for me.
But WP/Stormers are a weaker team without Deon Fourie and Francois Louw there.
18 Oct 2012, 10:16 am
Somehow I don’t think that we will be seeing the last of the Kings regardless of what transpires towards the end of next year’s season.
SARU have a significant ownership stake in the Kings so their agenda will be promoted, under some guise.
18 Oct 2012, 10:17 am
Imagine if Deon Fourie stays and Francois Louw returns.
1. Kitshoff 2. Liebenberg 3. Malherbe 4. Etzebeth 5. Bekker 6. Burger 7. Louw 8. Vermeulen 9. Groom 10. Jantjies 11. Habana 12. De Villiers 13. De Jongh 14. Aplon 15. Taute
16. Fourie 17. Cilliers 18. Elstadt 19. Kolisi 20. Schreuder 21. Grant 22. Brache
18 Oct 2012, 10:18 am
@puff-106: Imagineif my aunty had balls she would been my uncle
18 Oct 2012, 10:19 am
@puff-104: tell me about it!!!
18 Oct 2012, 10:19 am
@Joe Maher-97: Come on joe,you are better than that and mentally challenged lions fans like Katman etc etc.We all know that the ME name referred to EP.Mediocre might have been,but the lions perfected it and claimed sole copyright of it.
18 Oct 2012, 10:20 am
@John Galt-102: How did the Kings contribute to this ‘mess’? Is it not they who have been shafted over the years? Promises made, promises broken, etc etc etc?
Now that they finally have an executive with the balls and the desire to ACTUALLY revive rugby in the EC – they are the bad guys?
I think a few citizens need to take a step back, and start looking at the facts, the lies, the promises, the backpeddling and the sort over the last years – all those actions which kept the EP under the heel of SARU.
There are NO innocents in this mess my friend. But there are a few within SARU and the Lions franchise, who carry more guilt than others. It is they who should be the subject of your “morbid hope to see them fail”; NOT the EP Kings.
18 Oct 2012, 10:20 am
The Kings need to get into the Currie Cup and stay there to be competitive in Super Rugby. They will be relegated next year and only be allowed back when the competition expands in 2016.
18 Oct 2012, 10:20 am
@stormersboy-105: Yep, they have a specially designed set of goalposts on castors for this one.
I posted this suggestion for a keo poll on an earlier thread:
What will be the outcome of the promotion/relegation match between the Cheetahs and the Kings?
a.) Cheetahs will win and remain in the Premier Division
b.) Kings will win and replace the Cheetahs
c.) Cheetahs will win and Cheeky will successfully appeal for a rematch
d.) Cheetahs will win but SARU will decide to accommodate the Kings anyway
18 Oct 2012, 10:21 am
Farkit….
Got to support the Bulls the weekend….but want Lambie to show M Steyn the true value of a flat laying 10….
Catch 22 …
18 Oct 2012, 10:21 am
@stormersboy-105:
they are unbelievably compromised.
If this ends up in court they are going to end up looking like a shaved poodle.
18 Oct 2012, 10:22 am
@wnbb-109: Well, judging by a.) their usefulness to SA Rugby and b.) their current racial make-up they’d be better off being called the White Elephants.
18 Oct 2012, 10:23 am
Have the Kings tried to contract Ismaeel Dollie yet?
18 Oct 2012, 10:24 am
@wnbb-109:
You’re clearly delusional, mate. For all Transvaal/Lions woes, our rugby heritage is rich and very, very successful when compared with the basketcase mob in PE.
Facts and history do not lie, even to ingrained propagandists and apologists.
But hey, whatever gets you through the night…
18 Oct 2012, 10:24 am
I wonder whether the hatred for the Kings would still be so intense if Cheeky and Luke were not there?
18 Oct 2012, 10:24 am
@puff-104: When did he make the decision to move overseas? Before they made him captain?
WP have actually invested alot in him this year. He started many games and became the first choice hooker, then they gave him the captaincy.
Pity that he is coming into his own and becoming invaluable right when he decides to leave.
18 Oct 2012, 10:24 am
@puff-104: Agree with you.Sad to see Fourie go.Just hoping that Flo will come back sooner rather than later.I know that he will never sign for any other province than WP
18 Oct 2012, 10:25 am
To all the Kings haters out there! The Kings are here to stay, they’ll be playing SR next year. No amount of b.itching will change that fact…
18 Oct 2012, 10:26 am
@WP_-116: bwaahhahahahah
18 Oct 2012, 10:27 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-110:
Yes Pedigree…
Keep telling yourself that Cheeky and his band of ‘connected’ comrades didnt put any political pressure on the likes of a very weak Oregan Hoskins who, lets all admit, is the comander in chief of this balls up.
Pressure was applied by Cheeky etc and promises were made Hoskins who had no hope in delivering these promises.
Naivety at its very best Pedders.
18 Oct 2012, 10:27 am
@mxhosa-121: And the year after that?
18 Oct 2012, 10:28 am
@katman-66: you didn’t b.itch when you Lions were given a “political leg up” from 2006 to 2012, now did you?
who “loathed” your team then?
The Lions have routinely delivered poor performances in Super Rugby, but Loffie Eloff insisted that the Spears decision would not place them under any further pressure to prove that they could compete with the best teams in the southern hemisphere.
“We don’t have to justify anything to anyone,” he snapped. “We will go out and play our game and try to wave the flag for South Africa.”
18 Oct 2012, 10:29 am
@wnbb-120: because his grandaddy’s name is etched into one of the stands?
He has a chance now to cement his place in the Bok squad, he just needs to return home.
Imagine
6. Kolisi
7. Flo
8. Vermeulen
18 Oct 2012, 10:29 am
Is there a thread on the sa rugby players of the year nominations?
What an absolute joke?
Lambie ahead of Goosen? Lambie did not have a good year. He was injured in the super 15 and then returned for the final where he was the Sharks worst player. Then he sat on the bench.
Goosen on the other hand was in pole position in all departments before he got injured in the super 15. He had a much better early super 15 than Lambie.
Kolisi ahead of Coetzee. They are at the same age. They had similar super 15 seasons. Both very good. Kolisi got injured and Coetzee made the step up to the Springboks and did a very good job against England and thereafter he was good, but not as good as Louw.
Adriaan Strauss for example was extremely good in the super 15 season and had a good season with the Boks. It seems it is better to be on the bench or injured than to actually have played for the Boks.
18 Oct 2012, 10:29 am
@grant10-118: Don’t go there Gman!!….the hawks are circling ,ready to pounce.
18 Oct 2012, 10:30 am
@grant10-118:
Not at all.
18 Oct 2012, 10:30 am
So a kings thread means 1000 HIts for the day????
18 Oct 2012, 10:33 am
@John Galt-123: Don’t disrespect Oregan!He is a good KZN lad.
18 Oct 2012, 10:34 am
First reaction was: “how much SARU” paid for that tendentious, pathetic thread”?
But they did not, must have got it for free considering the Keos have been running that incredible promotion campaign for the Kings for 2 years now.
When you control the referees’ handling matches everything domestically is inconsequential and meaningless
Ask the Bookies
18 Oct 2012, 10:35 am
Something for you Saffers to grate your teeth on
RICHIE McCAW the greatest player of all time, read it on the ROAR
Champion All Blanks flanker and captain Richie McCaw might just be the greatest rugby player in history.
McCaw recently played in his 100th test win. Yes, that’s right – 100th test win. That’s not 100th test appearance, but 100th test win.
To provide the literary equivalent of a pause while readers pondered this would require me to leave at least half a page blank. But of course that’s impractical. But consider this briefly, all the same.
McCaw, quite incredibly, has achieved his 100 test wins out of an overall 112 tests played. That’s a winning ratio percentage (WRP) of a staggering 89.28%. In other words, he has been on the winning side in 9 out of every 10 tests he has played. Nine out of EVERY 10 tests.
To put this in context, the Wallabies won 9 out of 10 tests in 1991 on their way to winning the World Cup. But they haven’t been able to do this consistently year-in and year-out. McCaw has.
There are only 21 players throughout the history of the game who have reached the coveted 100 test appearances, with fellow All Blacks hooker Keven Mealamu set to join this august group against the Wallabies in Brisbane this Saturday as the 22nd centurion.
Of these players, the next most wins is by George Gregan with 93 out of 139 tests played (67.62% WRP), followed by Jason Leonard (89 out of 119, 75.63% WRP).
Since McCaw intends to continue playing until the 2015 World Cup, injuries permitting, he is likely to set a record for most winning tests that will stand for a very long time.
Whoever eventually beats his record, if ever, will most definitely be very, very tired! To put McCaw’s WRP in ever-more perspective, the next best WRP among the centurions is Mils Muliana with 84% in an even 100 tests. However, Mealamu’s current WRP is 85.85%.
Of all the players who have appeared in over 50 test matches, only one player has a superior WRP, and only just. That man is yet another All Black – centre Conrad Smith – with 56 wins from 62 tests and a WRP of 90.32%.
If there’s any doubt that NZ is consistently the best rugby team on the planet, then these stats certainly bear that out.
Richie McCaw is no saint and I like that about him. I like my heroes to be flawed diamonds, humans, just like the rest of us.
Even so, McCaw appears to be not only respected by his peers, but liked as well. While it seems he is also revered by the younger generation, as it should be. McCaw is the kind of guy you would like to have as a mate. At least that’s the perception.
McCaw has been given a great back-handed compliment by Aussie rugby fans who have labelled him a serial cheat.
There is a humorous irony in this, as any flanker worth his salt, especially an open-side flanker, must be willing to play on the edge of the law. It comes with the territory. If you’re not willing to play on the edge and occasionally over the edge, then find a less contentious position to play, like er, winger.
Some things are in the DNA of every position. Scrumhalfs yap incessantly, wingers can’t catch, props don’t have necks and flankers cheat. That’s the way it is!
For a long time I was unwilling to concede that McCaw was a superior player to the superbly athletic Michael Jones, but McCaw eventually wore me down, in the same way he wears down opposition flankers, flyhalfs and the referees as well! While I think Jones remains the most perfect rugby athlete I’ve seen, McCaw is probably the best-ever rugby player of all time.
Richard Hugh McCaw was born on the last day of 1980 (which the superstitious claim is a good omen). He came from a family steeped in distinction. His grandfather was a fighter pilot during WW2, credited with shooting down 20 V I missile rockets in the last year of the war. McCaw developed a love of flying from his grandfather and is a qualified pilot.
McCaw made his test debut late in 2001 against Ireland. He was embroiled in controversy early in his career when he wrestled a South African spectator, who had come onto the pitch in Durban to harass Irish ref David McHugh, to the ground in 2002.
As mentioned earlier, McCaw is far from perfect. His captaincy during the World Cup quarter-final against France in 2007 was a low point, when he along with his team mates, appeared to be bereft of ideas and they subsequently lost.
But he has learnt from his mistakes to become a clever and inspirational leader. During the 2011 World Cup tournament, won by the All Blacks, McCaw inspired his team mates and the nation, playing on virtually one leg after suffering a debilitating ankle injury.
I have been following rugby for about 45 years. Richie McCaw is the best open-side flanker I’ve seen in that time, while his phenomenal win-loss record alone suggests he might also be the best player in any position in history.
As for best captain, I will reserve judgement for the time being. But it’s fair to say he’s up there among the best leaders.
18 Oct 2012, 10:36 am
@Horings-127: Now,did you have to go and do that??…especially with Lambie’s Daddy-cool around at the moment.
18 Oct 2012, 10:40 am
@Black Power-133: He is the best I have ever seen. Especially at manipulating the refs (not saying this in a bad way), but that is his job.
BUT will you agree that he is at the end of his career and it will be very difficult to replace him and Carter. The All Blacks will always be 1 or 2 in the world, but the chances are they will be 2 sometime in the next couple of years. This will happen when one of their opposing teams actually build a golden era for themselves.
18 Oct 2012, 10:41 am
@wnbb-134: Hehe. perfect timing I’ll say.
18 Oct 2012, 10:42 am
@John Galt-102: misguided fools they are – your mates that is…
how is this the Kings fault?
- they were excluded from playing Currie Cup in 2005
- SARU bought Spears shares to kill off the LEGALLY-binding contract to allow the Spears to play Super rugby in 2006
- excluded from playing Super Rugby in 2006, 2007
- SARU never spent a CENT on the Spears since 2006 to 2009 when Anele Pamba and Cheeky Watson took over at EP, re-branded the Spears as the Kings and started asking questions.
- from 2009 up until 2012 SARU was playing hide and seek with the Kings, not dealing with the issue AT ALL!
i ask again, how is this the Kings fault?
18 Oct 2012, 10:44 am
@Black Power-133: it must really grate, when we’re not concerned about you lot in our conversations that you have to insert yourself so blatantly?
18 Oct 2012, 10:45 am
@Transformation-125: I don’t think you understand what the term leg-up means. The Lions were in the competition all along. They didn’t need a leg-up anywhere. The Kings were ushered into the competition at the Lions’ expense (despite assurances that this wouldn’t happen) simply because it would look good for our World Cup bid. It was a political move, and a bunch of connected suckerfish have been jostling for prime position ever since.
All that rubbish about unearthing black talent and inspiring rural youngsters to take up the game is all just election-type spin. I mean, for large parts of their CC First Division campaigns of recent years, both the Elephants and the Bulldogs teams had substantial black representation, and everyone nodded and stroked their chins and said: see what can happen if we give them a chance. But towards the business end of the competition that really counts (i.e. to put them in pole position for next year’s Premier Division), they field a team that has less black players than any other SA Union.
Why? We’re told Cheeky and Solomons are men committed to the cause, as opposed to those old school coaches like Loffie and Naka who only trust their own when their ***** are on the block. But now we see they’re no different.
So it was a political leg-up, and THAT’s why people resent them so much. People are sick to death of a culture of entitlement in this country. SO, sad is it may be for what is undoubtedly a team of fantastic blokes, people will be willing them to fail. And they will fail.
18 Oct 2012, 10:46 am
@Black Power-133: It is actually astonishing that the Boks had one of their best eras while McCaw played. He had a sequence of 3 losses against the Boks.
He has won 16 out of 2
18 Oct 2012, 10:46 am
@Sasuke-126: That helps.
That would be a brilliant combination.Good back up would make it even perfect.With Carr and Elstadt around as well we might just be heading to glory land more often than not. 
18 Oct 2012, 10:48 am
Cobus Reinach awarded Absa Player Of The Month for October. http://instagr.am/p/Q6sVmcueA4/ > deservedly so!!
18 Oct 2012, 10:48 am
@Transformation-138:
Not as much as it grates you. With out us you wouldn’t have a decent blog
18 Oct 2012, 10:49 am
Wanted to say
He won 16 out of 21 against SA and 84 out of 91 against other teams. This encludes a 2003 semi final loss against Aus and a 2007 QF loss against France.
This leaves him with only 5 losses in his career form regular season games that does not include SA. Probably a couple against Eng and a couple against Aus.
18 Oct 2012, 10:49 am
@Transformation-137:
What Katman said. Post 139.
I cant explain it better or in any other way.
18 Oct 2012, 10:49 am
@Horings-140:
How many losses have you had since?
18 Oct 2012, 10:50 am
@sharks_lover-142: Very good player. Quickly explain to me how Lambie deserves to be one of the 10 nominated players for player of the year?
18 Oct 2012, 10:50 am
@John Galt-123: But the Kings promises started when Cheeky had fuckall to do with EP rugby? Back in that Tony fella’s day?
Why is it everyone jumps straight onto the Cheeky wagon. I’m asking people to step back from the present – and take a look at the timeline going way back to a time when Cheeky was eating out in CT most evenings.
Take him OUT of the equation. The Kings saga did not suddenly begin the day Cheeky Watson pulled into PE….
18 Oct 2012, 10:53 am
@Black Power-146: Did he play in PE last year, because we won in 2004, 2005 and 2006, 2008, 3 times in 2009 and in 2011. He did not play in 3 of these games if we won 5 out of 21 he played in.
18 Oct 2012, 10:53 am
@katman-139: Now give us an essay on the virtue of keeping incompetent people in jobs and positions.Go for it Katters.Can’t wait-should be interesting.
18 Oct 2012, 10:53 am
@Joe Maher-117: who gives a toss about “rugby heritage”? this is super rugby ie FRANCHISE rugby!
i can see now how the likes of Manie Reyneke to the Super rugby money SARU paid to the franchise as GLRU money and duly spent it on everything either than union business.
without Manie & de Klerk SWINDLING Robert Gumede & co for their money on a promise they clearly knew they were going to sell to Altmann Allers, there would’ve been NO john mitchell, NO wayne taylor, NO carlos spencer, NO butch james, NO 2nd string Sharks player transfers to Jozi meaning NO 2011 Currie Cup…
try and spin that as “propaganda”
18 Oct 2012, 10:55 am
@Horings-149:
Dosn’t matter what you say, you still have a poorer record and always will
18 Oct 2012, 10:57 am
@John Galt-123: Hoskins, former president of Natal rugby, a true BOOTLICKER!
18 Oct 2012, 10:58 am
@Horings-147: I cant and as you know i am a huge Lambie Fan, alberts i thought did not deserve it either, I would have had MArcel Coetzee and CJ Stander in their place, And Goosen in place of Jantjes
18 Oct 2012, 11:00 am
In any case,lion supporters can climb up the walls,write long essays,manuscripts,love poems etc etc,the fact of the matter is that they have been rightly caned from super rugby.I,for one,won’t be missing them next season.That’s enough from me on this issue.Good riddance lions.Au revoir,totsiens ,Cheerios Lions!!
18 Oct 2012, 11:01 am
@Black Power-152: Did I say the opposite? You are not getting the reaction you wanted, are you? Me agreeing with you is actually pissing you off.
18 Oct 2012, 11:01 am
@wnbb-150: I sense that your agitation here stems from a similar situation in your own life. I suspect that you also are (or were at some stage) the beneficiary of preferential treatment in your career due to your BEE designation. And while this was certainly handy, you hate how inadequate it makes you feel.
18 Oct 2012, 11:02 am
@katman-139: the LIONS were to be RELEGATED and somehow were NOT!
“The parties present at the SARugby President’s Council meeting held on 8 June 2005 at the Intercontinental Sandton Sunagreed the following in respect ofthe franchise system in South Africa for the Super 14 Competition.
- The South African team finishing at the bottom of the log in 2006, will automatically be replaced by the SE Cape for the 2007 season.
how did they survive this?:
be honest!
you want fairness and merit yet you are mum on how you lot ILLEGALLY with the help of the SAME saffa led by Oregan Hoskins staved off relegation in 2006!
it is called, hypocrisy!
18 Oct 2012, 11:04 am
Yes Gareth the Kings are making progress: They lost against Boland in the final last season but this year they managed to beat the Pumas in the final!
It seems that keo has been appointed as the PRO company of the Kings, in addition to acting as Luke’s agent. I’m sure he is not complaining: next year his contract will increase from R3 million to R4 mill p.a !!
18 Oct 2012, 11:05 am
@sharks_lover-154: Thanks for your honesty. I am also a Lambie fan, but these Saru idiots do not watch any rugby nor do they know anything about rugby. Super 15 players of the year should be JPP, BdP, Kolisi, Coetzee, Daniel, Goosen and Etzebeth. Springbok player of the year should be Alberts, JPP(won the series against ENG), Etzebeth, F Louw, JdP and Habana.
18 Oct 2012, 11:06 am
@Black Power-143: bwahahahahaha really? so silverfern is not a decent blog without saffas i guess?
18 Oct 2012, 11:07 am
@John Galt-145: what a cop-out, you have no thoughts of your own and latch on to vindictive, emo nonsense by Katman….hahahaha
18 Oct 2012, 11:09 am
@Horings-147: no man, please leave lambie out of this…even if lambie had played only 2 games sharks_lover would think lambie was a candidate!
18 Oct 2012, 11:09 am
@Transformation-158: “how did they survive this?”
Come on, Transie. You know exactly how. The Spears financial and managerial affairs were deemed to be in a far worse state than even the Lions. So that’s pretty fcken bad. And THAT’s why they couldn’t let them play.
This has been widely reported ever since. I don’t know why you’re pretending not to know.
Or actually, I do know.
18 Oct 2012, 11:11 am
@Horings-160: The again Lambie was cheated out of winng the new player of the year a year or 2 ago, so yeah crazy stuff from SARU.
To be very honest i have voted for Keegan Daniel as rugby player of the year, he has been brilliant all year and that in his first year as Capt?? People keep saying he is too small? but yet in just about every match he plays he outplays his fellow loose forwards.
18 Oct 2012, 11:11 am
@Transformation-163: And even he does not have a clue why Lambie was nominated.
18 Oct 2012, 11:13 am
@Transformation-163: remind me to laugh HA ha Farking HA,
18 Oct 2012, 11:14 am
@sharks_lover-165: I will vote for JPP. Although he was injured he was the standout player in the super 15 and he won us the series against Eng. Etzebeth is a close second, but definitely young player of the year.
Things did not turn out for Hougaard as he would have likes. Read pre-season that one of his goals this year is to be IRB player of the year. Maybe his main aim should have been to be part of a winning team.
18 Oct 2012, 11:14 am
@CharlesM-159: FYI, we have walloped Boland every single time we play them and finish a game with 15 players! in one game we had 3 players sin-binned which skews the contest!
Kings: winners in 2010, runner ups in 2011, winners in 2012 even with the Pumas and Leopards added. we finished the log 12 points ahead of our closest rival.
18 Oct 2012, 11:15 am
@Transformation-162: Really? I’ve been nothing but logical and rational on this thread. Go back and re-read. Just because I also happen to be pointing out huge logical and rational elephants in your room doesn’t necessarily make me “emo and vindictive”, wena.
18 Oct 2012, 11:15 am
@Horings-166: Ignore him Horings , it thinks IT knows me,BUt its a self opinionated twatwaffel that sticks it’s nose where it aint wanted ,
Anyhows i gave you an honest answer,
18 Oct 2012, 11:15 am
@sharks_lover-165: “People keep saying he is too small? but yet in just about every match he plays he outplays his fellow loose forwards.” ???
You wanted Daniel benched for the Bulls, so that a ‘stronger’ pack could tackle the Bulls head on for the first 50 minutes of your upcoming semi-final?
*justremindingyou*
18 Oct 2012, 11:16 am
@Horings-168: I was between JPP and Daniel and Etsebeth, and Like i said Coetzee for me should have been there and i prolly would have voted for him, but he aint so yeah i went for Daniel
18 Oct 2012, 11:17 am
@Black Power-133: And Lance Armstrong is the greatest ever cyclist.
18 Oct 2012, 11:18 am
@Horings-168: Yeah a few players took a knock this year,
18 Oct 2012, 11:18 am
@katman-164: LIAR! try another one
i’ll be fair andf give you another chance.
how did the LIONS stave off relegation after on August 4 2006 a decision of Judge Dennis Davis ruled that the Spears have the right to play in the 2007 Super 14?
18 Oct 2012, 11:20 am
@katman-157: So,you’re not going to answer the question?That’s fine with me as it would probably not sit well with your own agenda you are trying to push on this forum.
18 Oct 2012, 11:20 am
Why are Morne and Krusty not on the list?
18 Oct 2012, 11:22 am
@Transformation-162:
No Cop out. Its exactly how I feel.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to regurgitate what he said. I could repeat it in slightly different prose but what would be the point?
And its not just the 2 of us that feel this way. What he wrote is the predominant complaint with the whole Kings saga.
18 Oct 2012, 11:22 am
@Transformation-176: Who gives a *****? Lions are out, Queens are in.
For now.
18 Oct 2012, 11:23 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-172:
Slim vang sy baas weereens??The www can be a b itch sometimes-always coming back to bite you in the … 
18 Oct 2012, 11:25 am
@Transformation-169: The fact remains that Boland beat the Kings twice at the end of last season, of which one was the final. The Boland has a very small budget and lost a number of players. Therefore the Kings were not the only ones that walloped the Boland this season. During this season the Kings played the Pumas three times with 2 games being drawn and the final had one point difference in the final score. The Pumas don’t have any big name players. If the Kings struggled to beat them, how are they not going to struggle against the S15 opponents ?
18 Oct 2012, 11:28 am
@Transformation-176: Just to jog your selective memory…
“The Southern Spears have been blocked from competing in the 2007 Super 14 by the SA Rugby board of directors.
A two-week investigation by South African Rugby Union (SARU) officials determined the Southern and Eastern Cape-based franchise was not at “acceptable levels of readiness” to compete in the three-nation tournament.
“We realize that it is a difficult and sensitive issue,” board chairman Mpumelelo Tshume said.
“The decision of the board will be an unpopular one in some sectors of the community, but we believe halting the Spears’ participation in the Super 14 for now is the right thing to do.
“Posterity will judge us harshly if we consider quick fixes.”
Tshume said two of the three provinces in the region were in serious financial difficulties.”
18 Oct 2012, 11:31 am
@katman-164: “The Spears financial and managerial affairs were deemed to be in a far worse state than even the Lions” hahaha oh really?
EP were never here!
Van der Walt included the financial figures for the 2007 to 2010 financial years, describing it as a “dramatic and continuing decline in the factual solvency”.
The Golden Lions’ financial woes have spiralled since 2007 when the company’s total liabilities exceeded its total assets as follows:• 2007: R48.6m;• 2008: R49.6m;• 2009: R63.7m;• 2010: R73.9m.
The rugby union’s financial situation is said to have deteriorated even further since then and, according to Van der Walt, the rugby union approached Absa Bank in October 2010 with a request to extend the terms of repayment of its overdraft.
“Absa was only willing to extend the period subject to the applicants’ (Guma TAC) providing a letter of undertaking to confirm future funding.”
18 Oct 2012, 11:36 am
TAKE M STEYN WITH YOU SPIES
Spies heading to France?
——————————————————————————–
by Brenden Nel 18 October 2012, 11:07
Springbok No8 and Bulls captain Pierre Spies may further his career up north after French club Bayonne reportedly have made a massive offer for his services over the next three years.
Spies has been negotiating with the Bulls to extend his contract but has been unsuccessful thus far, and with time running out – his contract expires next week – there is some concern that he may be lured by the big offer.
Bayonne have been searching for a top class No 8 and have made unsuccessful approaches to Bok Jacques Potgieter and All Black Liam Messam, and were keen on Springbok flanker Juan Smith to take the spot on return from injury, but according to French sources the club has been put off by Smith’s injury problems over the years.
Spies’ unsuccessful negotiations with the Bulls have made him a prime candidate, and it is supersport.com’s information that he has been offered close to R15-million over three years, with a nett salary of 40 000 euros per month should he make the move.
But the Bulls have not given up on him yet, and confirmed to supersport.com that they were continuing to negotiate an extension of his current contract with a teleconference set for Thursday to thrash out the final details.
How this plays out against the offer from Bayonne, which has been confirmed by two French sources, but denied by Spies’ agent Gerrie Swart, is anyone’s guess.
“We know nothing of such an offer and we are continuing to negotiate with the Bulls for an extension of Pierre’s contract,” Swart told supersport.com.
There is no doubt Spies, who grew up and has had his entire career in Pretoria, would want to stay at the Bulls, depending on the details of the contract.
With Springbok Jean de Villiers also doubtful for the Springbok end of year tour, Spies’ name has been mentioned as a long term captaincy candidate, although his form before getting injured appeared to have counted against him.
And with just 13 days left on his contract a decision needs to be made
18 Oct 2012, 11:38 am
@katman-183: AHHHH “acceptable levels of readiness”
since when did you become a SARU bullshit gobbler?
18 Oct 2012, 11:40 am
@shooter-43: haha, big farmers breeding can only be good for rugby…
18 Oct 2012, 11:41 am
@grant10-185: So it seems the Bulls might have seen the light as well? Hell, when you have Arno Botha on your books and more than ready to break down the door – why would they want Spies either as a captain, or as a guaranteed starter?
18 Oct 2012, 11:44 am
@XhosaKid-77: Fair point… But a super rugby franchise is not the reason you choose a high school…Grey PE or any one of the other boarding schools in EP not good enough?
18 Oct 2012, 11:46 am
@CharlesM-182: i like the fact that you don’t count the 1st game of last season where the Kings beat Boland and what is most significant to you are the “last two games” both in wellington, both with the Kings unfairly yellow-carded!
last year Boland boasted the likes of Willie le Roux, Danwell Demas, Elgar Watts.
Struggling in Super rugby is something you as a Stormers supporter you know very well, with your team having tasted relegation before! the Kings have to start somewhere, the same as the Force, Rebels, Central Cheetahs and Lions did.
the Bulls in the early 2000 were the most hondkak team in super rugby, they’re the only saffa side to have won the comp…it has to start somewhere!
18 Oct 2012, 11:47 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-188:
Indeed we need the money to play for all our young province players.
18 Oct 2012, 11:47 am
@grant10-185: go Pierre!
18 Oct 2012, 11:47 am
@Transformation-186: You may not like it, but “acceptable levels of readiness” is actually a pretty good gauge of who should play in Super Rugby and who not. As your Kings are soon to find out. Sure, everyone likes a feelgood story – a Jamaican bobsleigh team, if you like – but at the end of the day the rest of us rugby loving public can take only so much of rugby’s version of Eric the Eel splashing and spluttering his way through the Super Rugby competition. It becomes too much to watch, regardless of the Hollywood movie aspect to the storyline. So absobloodylutely yes, acceptable levels of readiness is the top criteria.
And don’t give me your hackneyed old line about the Lions’ performance. Wait till you see how deep that valley of despair can really go before you start comparing the two.
18 Oct 2012, 11:47 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-188: C J Stander has jumped the gun …..pity
18 Oct 2012, 11:48 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-188: BUt in stupidity they lost CJ Stander, their best player this year, CRazy stuff
18 Oct 2012, 11:49 am
@Transformation-190:
unfairly yellow carded.
welocme down from off the fence amigo.
18 Oct 2012, 11:49 am
@grant10-185:
Fantastic news! Now pack up and off you go…
Dead wood indeed.
18 Oct 2012, 11:49 am
@grant10-194:
grant we were both just busy typing the same stuff
18 Oct 2012, 11:53 am
@gunther-191: You can purchase as many of our young players as you wish for the next 3 years with the money you will be saving on Spies’s salary. That is my gift to the Bulls for ridding SA rugby of it’s “finest athlete” ever ever ever….
Sacrificing a few young WP players to the pantoffelpagans in Pretoria is a VERY small price to pay
18 Oct 2012, 11:55 am
@John Galt-179: you are saying Cheeky used political influence while you ignore REAL rugby work like this:
EPRU gets unqualified audit – first in 7 years
2010/05/04
Sbongile Dimbaza
THE Eastern Province Rugby Union has received an unqualified audit report – the first in seven years.
EPRU president Cheeky Watson said this augured well for plans to ensure the union became attractive to sponsors.
“It’s down to good teamwork that we have achieved this. The union’s books have been in the red for a long time and our management strategy has paid off.”
He said turning things around in rugby was never an easy business, but what had been achieved was a reflection of pure determination on the part of the management.
Watson said this new development would give comfort to potential sponsors of the EPRU.
Part of the union’s plan is to hire an experienced coach, but Watson said talks were still at a sensitive stage.
New players are being sought to inject new blood into the team.
“We need to ensure we build on this achievement, because it’s going to have an impact on clubs and sub-unions.”
18 Oct 2012, 11:55 am
@grant10-185: Maybe its the fact that both of them have french names they are being linked to france?
And how kak must you be if someone approaches Jacques Potgieter before you?
18 Oct 2012, 11:56 am
@katman-193: more emo stuff, you’re quite garrulous, i’ll give you that
18 Oct 2012, 11:58 am
@gunther-196: you never watched the games Gunman!
unfair is unfair
18 Oct 2012, 12:00 pm
@Horings-127: “It seems it is better to be on the bench or injured than to actually have played for the Boks.” With the performance of our Boks this year never a truer word was spoken.
However I do agree with your post!
18 Oct 2012, 12:03 pm
@Transformation-202: That was neither emo nor garrulous. Have you really run out of things to say? It’s only just gone 12:00.
18 Oct 2012, 12:05 pm
@trupisero-201: Oh that’s a low blow……
Spies is sloppy seconds?
18 Oct 2012, 12:07 pm
Keo you fukkking cokhole go **** yourself between your anal flaps u fukkking chicken sh!!t cheeky watson bum boy. you fukking disgrace and your little mob are fukkking **** faces. take the southern queens with you azzzwipe. never shy of playing the political card you stupid pr!k. i hope yuo fukkking die!!!!!!!
18 Oct 2012, 12:07 pm
Keo you fukkking cokhole go **** yourself between your anal flaps u fukkking chicken sh!!t cheeky watson bum boy. you fukking disgrace and your little mob are fukkking **** faces. take the southern queens with you azzzwipe. never shy of playing the political card you stupid pr!k. i hope yuo fukkking die!!!!!!!!
18 Oct 2012, 12:08 pm
Keo you fukkking cokhole go **** yourself between your anal flaps u fukkking chicken sh!!t cheeky watson bum boy. you fukking disgrace and your little mob are fukkking **** faces. take the southern queens with you azzzwipe. never shy of playing the political card you stupid pr!k. i hope yuo fukkking die!!!!!!!!!!!!
18 Oct 2012, 12:08 pm
Keo you fukkking cokhole go **** yourself between your anal flaps u fukkking chicken sh!!t cheeky watson bum boy. you fukking disgrace and your little mob are fukkking **** faces. take the southern queens with you azzzwipe. never shy of playing the political card you stupid pr!k. i hope yuo fukkking die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
18 Oct 2012, 12:09 pm
Keo you fukkking cokhole go **** yourself between your anal flaps u fukkking chicken sh!!t cheeky watson bum boy. you fukking disgrace and your little mob are fukkking **** faces. take the southern queens with you azzzwipe. never shy of playing the political card you stupid pr!k. i hope yuo fukkking die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
18 Oct 2012, 12:11 pm
@Blitzbok-207: something tells me you’re upset with the midget?
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-206: mmm…sounds very much like a Stormers story…
18 Oct 2012, 12:12 pm
hell, there’s a moeruvva echo in here!
18 Oct 2012, 12:14 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-206:
The didn’t think they could afford him.
They weren’t going to offer Haselnegger 15 million for three years.
18 Oct 2012, 12:14 pm
@trupisero-212:
You are very adept at reading between the lines trupis.
18 Oct 2012, 12:15 pm
I think somebody needs a lie down.
This must be the same dude that came up with the Bryce Lawrence death threats that my chum Hurri was going on about.
18 Oct 2012, 12:16 pm
@trupisero-212: Except it isn’t……..
@Blitzbok-207: So what you are saying is:
“Keo you fukkking cokhole go **** yourself between your anal flaps u fukkking chicken sh!!t cheeky watson bum boy. you fukking disgrace and your little mob are fukkking **** faces. take the southern queens with you azzzwipe. never shy of playing the political card you stupid pr!k. i hope yuo fukkking die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
Correct?
18 Oct 2012, 12:19 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-217: it’s not WHAT he is saying, it’s HOW he is saying it.
did you make sure you got all 27 exclamation marks?
18 Oct 2012, 12:19 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-217:
no I think you’ve misunderstood him
what he meant to say was:
“Keo you fukkking cokhole go **** yourself between your anal flaps u fukkking chicken sh!!t cheeky watson bum boy. you fukking disgrace and your little mob are fukkking **** faces. take the southern queens with you azzzwipe. never shy of playing the political card you stupid pr!k. i hope yuo fukkking die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
Amazing really.
He and Fuckadilly “no ob is too small” Runtcunt could be twins.
18 Oct 2012, 12:23 pm
@shooter-218: I counted them!
@gunther-219: Ahhhhh, now I see it. The skies have cleared. What he is ACTUALLY saying is:
“Keo you fukkking cokhole go **** yourself between your anal flaps u fukkking chicken sh!!t cheeky watson bum boy. you fukking disgrace and your little mob are fukkking **** faces. take the southern queens with you azzzwipe. never shy of playing the political card you stupid pr!k. i hope yuo fukkking die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
18 Oct 2012, 12:24 pm
Sumbody gonna get hurt rrreal bad!
18 Oct 2012, 12:26 pm
@Blitzbok-207: wow blitzy didn’t know you felt that way about Keo.
18 Oct 2012, 12:26 pm
@gunther-216: would you say this fellow is upset??
18 Oct 2012, 12:27 pm
@katman-205: oh yes i forget…”flowery” is the word you like…
18 Oct 2012, 12:29 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-220:
You see you were reading it wrong.
See how he deliberately ends on a stressed syllable?
This is no ordinary blogger.
18 Oct 2012, 12:30 pm
@gunther-219: Definitely a graduate of the Fuckadilly Institute of Lucid Communications (Dip.*****).
18 Oct 2012, 12:31 pm
This is an experiment………………………………..pay no head/.
18 Oct 2012, 12:32 pm
Hey it works.
18 Oct 2012, 12:32 pm
@stormer in a teacup-226: s h y t e. I can’t believe that is on the watch list.
18 Oct 2012, 12:33 pm
@gunther-225: A blogging oracle? A Jedi master? Or an undiagnosed schizophrenic?
But yes, definitely not ordinary
18 Oct 2012, 12:35 pm
@Transformation-224: I would have preferred loquacious, but I’m afraid to use the word here for fear of Capo nicking it as a name for one of his daughters.
18 Oct 2012, 12:36 pm
18 October 2012 (12:26) – Jean Deysel will win his 50 Absa Currie Cup cap for The Sharks in Saturday’s semi-final when they host the Blue Bulls at Mr Price KINGS PARK for the 4.30pm kick-off.
He is one of a host of Springboks who will feature – for both teams.
In changes to last week’s side, JP Pietersen shifts to the right wing in place of Odwa Ndungane who picked up an ankle injury against Griquas last weekend and hasn’t come through a late fitness test. Jacques Botes, another player under an injury cloud (back), also failed to make it through and will miss out this week. The third player facing a late decision was Steven Sykes who has been bracketed in with Peet Marais on the bench.
After playing off the bench last weekend, the Springbok duo of Lwazi Mvovo and Jannie du Plessis start this week, while Beast Mtawarira and Willem Alberts, who were rested last week following their heavy workload in the Castle Rugby Championship, have been recalled and will feature off the bench.
“We’re starting Jannie, it’s a big game and he had some Currie Cup action last week,” explains coach John Plumtree of the changes he’s made. “He’ll be partnered by Dale Chadwick and Kyle Cooper, and then we have a whole front row on the bench with Craig Burden, Beast and Wiehahn Herbst. It could be wet and having Willem Alberts and someone with experience like Steven Sykes on the bench will be important because how we finish the game off could be vital.
“There were a lot of choices, but I don’t think we could ignore what the guys have achieved without the guys who are now back. And we also couldn’t ignore the importance of experience.
“Everyone is just really excited.”
The Sharks
15. Louis Ludik
14. JP Pietersen
13. Paul Jordaan
12. Tim Whitehead
11. Lwazi Mvovo
10. Pat Lambie
9. Cobus Reinach
8. Keegan Daniel (Capt)
7. Jean Deysel
6. Marcell Coetzee
5. Anton Bresler
4. Jandre Marais
3. Jannie du Plessis
2. Kyle Cooper
1. Dale Chadwick
Replacements
16. Craig Burden
17. Tendai Mtawarira
18. Wiehahn Herbst
19. Steven Sykes / Peet Marais
20. Willem Alberts
21. Charl McLeod
22. Meyer Bosman
18 Oct 2012, 12:38 pm
@stormer in a teacup-226:
Fuckadilly Institute of Lucid Thought Habits.
18 Oct 2012, 12:38 pm
Sorry for the long post, but a few Nienaber fans might enjoy this
Not too long ago Jacques Nienaber signed with DHL WP Rugby for another three years, keeping him in Cape Town until 2016. Nienaber told us why staying on was an easy decision to make.
He felt it was a beneficial for him to stay, both for himself and for his career.
“WE’VE GOT UNBELIEVABLE PLAYERS WHO WE’RE WORKING WITH, WHO ARE WORLD-CLASS. I’M A FIRM BELIEVER THAT AS A COACH YOU’RE ONLY AS GOOD AS THE PLAYERS; I KNOW THE PLAYERS THAT I’M WORKING WITH AND I KNOW THAT THEY WORK HARD AND WILL SACRIFICE THEMSELVES FOR THE UNION AND FOR THE BRAND. THAT ATTITUDE IS SOMETHING YOU CAN’T COACH.”
The DHL Western Province and DHL Stormers coaching team have formed a bond, a further reason for Nienaber to stay and he believes in the other coaches and their abilities.“We get along and there is no friction in our coaching styles, Allister makes it very clear as to what direction he wants the team to go and that makes it easier for the peripheral coaches to plan their systems in accordance.” A final reason that contributed to him staying was his family, who love and enjoy Cape Town. “We enjoy Cape Town and we enjoy the people; we’ve made great friends here in five years and we do not want to leave.”
Nienaber ensures that every level of DHL WP Rugby is taught his defensive structures, ensuring that the players coming through the ranks into the senior team are accustomed to his defensive style. “I go to the under-19s every Thursday for a defence session in Stellenbosch at the Western Province Rugby Institute (WPRI). Nienaber works closely with the coaches at the WPRI – from the under-19s to the under-21s – where he sets the structures, improving and integrating attack, defence, kicking and breakdown.
Nienaber admits that the absence of senior players during the Currie Cup has a massive effect on the team, “For example, two guys like Burger and De Villiers – who have been in the system for five years – understand exactly what I want and they understand what the system must look like.” Nienaber goes on to give a creative analogy to better describe the system: “When you are a heart surgeon and you talk to other heart surgeons, you talk with authority because you know what you’re talking about. But, if you are a heart surgeon and you find yourself in a finance meeting, you’ll keep your mouth shut because you don’t understand finance.
“The same thing happens on defence – a senior player who has knowledge of the system will talk with authority on the field. A junior player might know the detail, but he won’t talk with the same confidence. That’s the difference between a senior and a junior player.”
As a coach, it is important to keep training and tactics from becoming mundane, but Nienaber claimed that this can be challenging. “I think that is what makes Alex Ferguson phenomenal. He has stayed with the same club for 25 or so years and continues to innovate the team. A player like Eben Etzebeth gets to places that a ‘normal’ lock can’t because he is a freakish physical specimen. Andries Bekker, who is older and wiser now than he was three or four years ago has a different approach to the game than Etzebeth. They have different approaches to the game, yet they are still extremely effective. As a coach you have to realise that you have different players at your disposal; some are young, some are experienced, some do things this way and some do things that way – the innovation comes in constantly ensuring that these players use their differences positively, within the coaching systems.”
Nienaber has achieved a lot in a short amount of time, but he modestly asserts that he deserves no credit, “It must never be defence that is good, I haven’t achieved anything; it’s not me achieving, it’s the team who are achieving. I came here because I felt like I could make a difference; we’ve changed the culture of the team but when we start winning then we’ll change Western Cape, DHL Western Province and DHL Stormers Rugby.” WPRM
18 Oct 2012, 12:39 pm
@GarethDuncan-4: Thanks Gareth, maybe some people (myself included) should go back and check SARU’s “fine print” in that statement.
What Roux was saying was that should a “feeling” arise next year that the Kings should have an extended stay in Super Rugby it would be voted for by the Unions (again!) at the next AGM and, if accepted, could be ratified by SARU’s Exco committee.
“Roux added, though, that this was highly unlikely.”
Typical slimy, sneaky way of working things if you ask me (where is the “leadership”, SARU?) and rest assured I will take any further utterances from any person at SARU with a huge pinch of salt.
18 Oct 2012, 12:40 pm
@sharks_lover-232: That is exactly the team I would have chosen! Welldone Plum! Now lets get this trophy!!!!!! Go Sharks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
18 Oct 2012, 12:40 pm
@cane-227: pay no heed or give no head?
18 Oct 2012, 12:40 pm
@sharks_lover-232: Good team and pleased Deysel is starting. Though think it is a mistake not starting with Beast. Would have had Chadwick on the bench.
18 Oct 2012, 12:41 pm
@Sharksgirl-236: Should have started with Beast and not Chadwick. Crazy actually, really not sure about that.
18 Oct 2012, 12:42 pm
@trupisero-237:
It doesnt matter.
he hasn’t been given either in decades.
18 Oct 2012, 12:42 pm
@katman-231: May be bit too close to the other one “Ovoviviparous” don’t you think?
18 Oct 2012, 12:44 pm
Th!nk I saw Skop !n F!shhoek ma!nroad th!s morn?ng. He was load!ng a wh!te bakk!e w!th a tra!ler beh!nd. Was about to stop and asked h!m !f h!s name was Joel but as that thought went through my m!nd I drove through a red traff?ce l?ght.
True story.
18 Oct 2012, 12:44 pm
@sharks_lover-232: So a 5/2 split as normal against the Bulls. Would have started with Beast, othewise good selections. Sorry that Odwa is out injured though.
Also pity Burden was with the Boks as he was only part of the 30 man squad. Would have been in fine form now had he played CC instead with Sharks.
18 Oct 2012, 12:45 pm
And this is for that 80′s relic blessed (or cursed) with the extra testicle.
A quote from Berton Klaasen: ““The great thing about Western Province is it does not matter if you are white, coloured or black, we all get along and have great relationships with each other,” said Klaasen.”
I’m not sure this will go down well at all.
18 Oct 2012, 12:45 pm
@Jeraldjay-242: Definitely Skoppie. He has so much baggage that he sometimes hooks two trailers behind his bakkie.
18 Oct 2012, 12:45 pm
@gunther-233: Fuckadilly Early Learning Centre for Highly Emotional Responses.
18 Oct 2012, 12:45 pm
@gunther-240: bwahaahaahaaa!!!
18 Oct 2012, 12:45 pm
Traff!c l!ght. Fl!pp!n Blackberry.
18 Oct 2012, 12:48 pm
@Jeraldjay-242: Fish Hoek has more than one road?
18 Oct 2012, 12:48 pm
@sharks_lover-232:
Good side.
Nice 5/2 split on the bench as well, considering the weather predicted for Durbs.
Reckon its going to be trench warfare out there. Battle of attrition at its finest.
18 Oct 2012, 12:48 pm
@Jeraldjay-242:
was it a nissan 1400?
was he wearing a YOLO T-shirt with sandals and white socks?
18 Oct 2012, 12:50 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-249:
no it has two if you count the goat track.
18 Oct 2012, 12:51 pm
@Puma-238: @Sharksgirl-236: I posted a team on here early in the week,
Mine is the same accept i had Beast to start and Chadwick off the bench, oh and burden to start and Cooper on the bench.
I chose Sykes off the bench by chance as he has been injured for a while now, and he is on it so quite chuffed, thats a very strong team
18 Oct 2012, 12:53 pm
@Puma-239: Puma, Beast looked a little tired during the RC, and the Bulls have an entire good front row on the bench I think Plumtree is trying to keep continuity with countering the Bulls bench on the bench. I don’t know if I am explaining myself properly
sometimes my thoughts are all over the place 
18 Oct 2012, 12:56 pm
@gunther-251:
No an Isuzu s!ngle cab. F!t Skop’s prof!le to the tee.
Brumb?esperson ?t was the top ma?n road that takes you to Kommetj?e.
18 Oct 2012, 12:59 pm
@sharks_lover-253: Is a strong team, just not sure if it was wise to start with Chadwick, what you think? I would definitely have started with Beast. Pity Burden has not had much game time being with the Boks. He was in good form when called up, to do nothing really. Now he misses out. Though Kyle was very good last week. Anyhow our bench could cause some damage coming on later. Our backline looks lethal! hehehehe. Hope no rain, so far weather been good yesterday and today. Bit of rain last night, so still think that field will be dry. Unless the rain does come. Hope not.
@Sharksgirl-254: Beast had a rest last week. Think he would have been fine this week to start. Remember he never had a full SR season as he was out until think the Force game at the Tank when he came back to play.
18 Oct 2012, 13:01 pm
@Puma-256: Boet i had as you saw the team spot on accept as i explaned i had BUrden to Start with Beast.
However i can understand PLums thinking,
18 Oct 2012, 13:07 pm
@John Galt-250: Yup John, i too can understand why Plum has made the selections he has.
So much rain expected, so meet fire with fire. I reckon with Sykes Beast Burden Bosman Mcleod Alberts and Herbst on the bench?? hell thats a very bery strong experienced bench.
18 Oct 2012, 13:07 pm
@sharks_lover-257: You sure did have the team spot on. Burden may not be totally game fit, or he might want us to speed things up in the 2nd half bringing on Burden then, who knows. I still would have started with Beast. Just never know what you get from Chadwick. He can give away plenty penalties. Our scrum is stronger with Beast there.
18 Oct 2012, 13:07 pm
@Puma-256:
Gonna be pouring with rain come 5pm Puma.
Dont expect either backline to be too dominant.
18 Oct 2012, 13:10 pm
@Jeraldjay-255: Old KB Samurai series ?
18 Oct 2012, 13:12 pm
@Puma-259: It is but trust me PLum has gone for an even stronger scrum off the bench. Herbst is a very strong TH and Beast we know, Burden again is very good so that makes for a very strong front row back up
Take into account the Bulls style of play with lineouts and rolling mauls?? Plum has made a good call i think
18 Oct 2012, 13:12 pm
@John Galt-260: I know with the rain it don’t matter. Damn it man, if it was played today that backline would be awesome. Rain might give Bulls the advantage with their big pack.
18 Oct 2012, 13:15 pm
@sharks_lover-262: Just hope we ahead by that time, if not still right there in it. If we need our bench to change matters we have to stay close on the score board.
18 Oct 2012, 13:15 pm
@sharks_lover-262: SL thank you, that is what I was trying to say in my haphazard way
18 Oct 2012, 13:16 pm
@John Galt-260: It has to be huge defense from us with keeping ball in hand tactics.
The Bulls always come back stronger in the 2ndhalf because a fresh front row comes on and they then love the mauls, now we have a batter bench as far as i am concerned, stronger and more experienced, and the BUlls have not scrummed that well this year so Chadwick will be fine.
Cooper loves driving play with ball in hand, so he too will be fine in the weather i think, Burden loves to play more loose, the weather will not suit him as much
So yeah the team is a good one
18 Oct 2012, 13:16 pm
@sharks_lover-262: He has selected well, just if it was me I would still have started with Beast. Just don’t want them to go ahead and we have to be chasing once our bench comes on.
18 Oct 2012, 13:17 pm
Pierre Spies possibly heading to Bayonne in France on a 3-year deal worth R15m. How many of you will pay him R15?
18 Oct 2012, 13:18 pm
@sharks_lover-266: Well I can tell you for all the weather forecasts none of it has happened like they said this week. Today and yesterda was supposed to be rain the whole day. Not a could in sight bro. So still hoping for a dry day on Saturday.
18 Oct 2012, 13:20 pm
@sharks_lover-266: I think both benches are quite good. Greyling can be a good impact player, but he has some demons in his game at this stage. Ralepele, Kirsten, Stander and Hougaard are all very good impact players. Steenkamp (lineout specialist) and Fouche (goal kicker) are there for insurance.
18 Oct 2012, 13:20 pm
@Horings-268: Howzit Horings. Yip read that on SuperSport. Think it is the best for him. With so many now coming through playing well at 8 really don’t see him getting that position back at the Boks. Or probably the Bulls with Arno Botha there.
18 Oct 2012, 13:22 pm
@Horings-270: Agree, Bulls have a very good bench too.
18 Oct 2012, 13:22 pm
@Horings-268: I would pay him R15 million to leave yes. I wonder who is actually offering the 15 mil? The French club, or a group of SA investors desperate to be rid of him?
18 Oct 2012, 13:23 pm
@Horings-268:
More money than brains those French.
18 Oct 2012, 13:24 pm
@Horings-268: R15K maybe….
18 Oct 2012, 13:26 pm
@Puma-271: @Puma-272: @The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-273: @Hurricane-274: @Skeppie-275: I do not think I have had such a sequence of replies, but I will give all the credit to Spies.
18 Oct 2012, 13:26 pm
@Horings-270: Boet this match will be a humddinger, it is such a pity about all the rain expected.
I am glad though the team has been practicing everyday in the rain, up and unders were pouring down
18 Oct 2012, 13:27 pm
@Horings-276:
18 Oct 2012, 13:27 pm
@Horings-276:
18 Oct 2012, 13:30 pm
Stander must be kicking himself if Spies’ move realise. I would play Stander, Botha and Marnus Schoeman for the Bulls if I was DoR. You have possibly the 2nd best fetcher in the country this year, Physicallity with Stander, although he relies too much on his physicallity and then Botha will be a star.
Now we will play with Botha, Potgieter x2 and Stegmann. Hopefully Wiaan Liebenberg, Adendorff can come through the ranks quicker than anticipated.
18 Oct 2012, 13:33 pm
The Bulls will have to be better than what they have been this year. Much better.
Sharks favourites by 2 to 1.
18 Oct 2012, 13:33 pm
@sharks_lover-277: I really thought Plum might surprise us with Viljoen at the back, especially if rain is forecast, with his big boot. Pleased he has Ludik there though. Probably if there is a injury to Ludik, Lambie will have to cover there and hope that does not happen. Need Pat for the whole game at fh. Bosman will probably cover, centre fh and if necessary wing.
18 Oct 2012, 13:34 pm
@sharks_lover-277: You basically practised in rain all season. The Sharks handling in rain is so much better than any of the Bulls players that rain is not good news for me. We are very limited when it rains so I think the class of Daniel, Lambie’s handling skills will make a huge difference.
18 Oct 2012, 13:36 pm
@Puma-282: Bosman wing? I think Beast covers wing rather than Bosman. I remember the run Beast made against Aus last year and against the Bulls where Matfield chased him. Cannot remember Bosman ever runnning down the wing.
18 Oct 2012, 13:36 pm
@Horings-280: Stander should have waited. I blame the agents pushing the youngsters too soon to play overseas. Stander is a big loss for Bulls. Though Botha is playing some very good rugby.
18 Oct 2012, 13:38 pm
@Horings-284: hahahaha. Beast at wing…hehe.
Just no cover on the bench, so if we do have a injury there it will have to be Bosman moving over. Or Bosman to fh, Ludik to wing and Pat to fb. Just don’t want us to move Pat to FB. He is such class fh and for this game we need him for the full 80min there.
18 Oct 2012, 13:46 pm
@Puma-282: Yeah Pooms i am glad PLum stayed sensible and didnt make the same mistake he made when last we played the BUlls, when the rain came just before the match he decided on Viljoen and it was terrible as Viljoen has a shocker.
I am now in hindsight extremely happy with the route Plum has taken
18 Oct 2012, 13:50 pm
@Horings-283: Boet what if it does not rain??? I reckon that would suit the Sharks more, I reckon Plum will watch the weather and if it seems it wont rain he will make a change just before the start.
But a huge match it will be
18 Oct 2012, 13:51 pm
@sharks_lover-287: @Puma-286:
What do you all think of Mark Lawrence in charge……..*****
18 Oct 2012, 14:02 pm
@Rockn Rolla-289: eeeeeexxxxxxtremely unhappy, but it could have gone to the other Lawrence spelt Lourens and then I would have been suicidal!
18 Oct 2012, 14:03 pm
@Rockn Rolla-289: Very concerned about it, I said ealier ion the week i would rather have had the young Rasta something ref the match.
Lawrence always screws the Sharks, but the team are seriously gonna have to maintain dissapline, specially as the match will be mostly won by penalties
18 Oct 2012, 14:05 pm
@Rockn Rolla-289: @Sharksgirl-290: Lets try not worry about the Ref
18 Oct 2012, 14:06 pm
@Sharksgirl-290: Will give you a call before the match, I will prolly be there around 2 pm already to watch the under21 match, should be a cracker too
18 Oct 2012, 14:09 pm
Wie vat nou nog die Currie Cup kop toe?
18 Oct 2012, 14:12 pm
@sharks_lover-292:
Realy…….that skidmark about as anti shark as those fools wid the blue helmets, horn and bulls rings that you see @ loftus with the 300% proof brandy breath
would love to see the stats of all the shark games his blown
18 Oct 2012, 14:12 pm
@sharks_lover-287: Vijoen was terrible in the rain have to admit. Though thought Plum might play him at fb like he done against Stormers in the Semi SS with Ludik on the wing. Vijoen does make plenty handling errors though, but was very good with his big boot in that particular game. Against the Bulls at fh in the rain he made far too many errors.
18 Oct 2012, 14:16 pm
@Rockn Rolla-295: I would like to see the stats with the games he has blown for Sharks. Don’t remember us winning much with him there.
18 Oct 2012, 14:28 pm
I’ll be supporting the Bulls for a Newlands final but Morne has to have a kak game.
But victory at Kingspark will be the ultimate revenge.
18 Oct 2012, 14:31 pm
@Jeraldjay-298: hahaha. Your boys have to beat the Lions first, before thinking of a Newlands Final..
18 Oct 2012, 14:35 pm
@Jeraldjay-298: The optimism of a Stormers/ WP supporter before the finals. Just wait two weeks or so and he will be telling all why they will win the next tournament.
18 Oct 2012, 14:43 pm
@Puma-299:
We lost this fixture last year to the Lions.
If these guys choke again I’m supporting the Kings.
18 Oct 2012, 14:55 pm
@sharks_lover-291: You’ve got a very short memory. What about Willem Albert’s blatant knock-on which he scored off in last year’s CC Final?
Lions almost didn’t come back from that blatant booboo by ML.
18 Oct 2012, 14:56 pm
@Jeraldjay-301: hahahaha. Last year was different though. Think our Boks back in our team was really not motivated to play a CC semi or final. They still wanted to be in NZ playing the semi and final there.
18 Oct 2012, 15:06 pm
@Horings-280: schoeman is a penalty machine chap, quite dom too…
18 Oct 2012, 16:59 pm
I dig this Blitzbok
Vloeks everyone’s moer five times then fecks off!
Assassin!
18 Oct 2012, 20:30 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-302: Nope nothing wrong with my memory, I have never said Sharks have not gained from Ref mistakes, But a fact is the amounts of times the Sharks have gotten the wrong end of the stick from ML is pretty well documented, If you want the Lion s won a CC against the Sharks where ref Watson nailed the Sharks, **** happens, Difference is Watson did not always nail the Sharks or another team.
18 Oct 2012, 20:32 pm
Zeish people need to get over this whole Kings hate, all ur doing is giving Keo hits :lol;
I mean Keo has been quiet, till till his journo’s flood the blog with Kings articles LOL
18 Oct 2012, 21:15 pm
“Look Xhosa, im not against EP Rugby. In fact, due to some of my closer mates, Ive always had a soft spot for the region and its rugby history.”
some of my best friends are EP supporters
18 Oct 2012, 22:11 pm
@wnbb-109: Wnbb, nice insults you are throwing around and it shows the character of the region you support.
I have just a question concerning the Kings, What have they done the [ast decade to elevate themselfs past the B section of the CC?.
Even with SARU being their partner in the region they could not make the Premier division, so they demanded their inclusion into Super rugby.
You and the pro kings ca,p are throwing stones constantly at the LIONS poor record, well I am sure the kings have a better record than the LIONS in the Currie Cup.
Next we look at your Varsity cup record, in which leaque did NMMU play in and how many times did they even contest a semi in the competition? not many if any.
Sure ther are very talented players coming out of the region, but they want to play and ply their trade elsewhere.
Its funny how you breakdown the Gauteng area to justify your view points, but forget that the structures will be damaged with this decision that was made. So I guess to satisfy the needs of a region that cannot even improve without the help of politics and SARU, we kill off a 120 year old union for the selfish demands of another.
This my dear dillusional comrade is why most people dislike the kings.
18 Oct 2012, 22:16 pm
@Jeraldjay-242: wrong Joel..
otherwise known as Ahab the Arab .. or for less principled reasons Aha-saith-Zarathustra
18 Oct 2012, 22:56 pm
Sorry Bulls supporters, Spies is staying…….pleeeeeeeeeeez Meyer do not include him in the Bok team ever again cos then I will not be able to keep my word to myself and be supportive of you for a year no matter the results.
I wIll then have to acknowledge that to get this team up to scratch is not a work in process or progress
19 Oct 2012, 05:56 am
@Transformation-169:
Wow, now that’s some ****** impressive CV, Transie. Fully deserving of a tilt at the Crusaders and co.
19 Oct 2012, 06:23 am
What a load of toss this article is. The Kings will, despite all the unprecedented assistance fail dismally at the expense of rugby. We already know that the blood sucking leeches have attached themselves to the kings band wagon. The kings will go the way of SAA and Eskom and the taxpaying rugby fan will be footing the bill. Graeme Joffe obviously got it right and now the writers are being asked to justify the Kings inclusion.
Classic case of pigs in the trough. This site is becoming a joke filled with hidden agendas and quasi experts who have nothing better to do than try and convince each other that they know far more than they actually do.
19 Oct 2012, 07:11 am
@sharks_lover-306: No problem, as long as you realise that ALL TEAMS get good and bad decisions made against them. Nothing you can do about that, you have to take the good with the bad.
Having said that, if I was a betting man I’d be prepared to put money down that in major games reffed by the (in)famous Andre Watson, Transvaal/Lions lost a great deal more times than they won…
19 Oct 2012, 09:39 am
@DEE DAH-313: You did NOT@BrumbiesBoy-314: mention Graham Joffe on this site?????
You will get banned for life!
19 Oct 2012, 09:40 am
@Blue Label-315: Sorry… Finger slipped there, and please no “Thats what she said” jokes.
Hehehe
19 Oct 2012, 09:57 am
@Puma-299: No Puma,the Bulls HAVE to beat the Sharks first before we can think of a Newlands final.We play second on Saturday ….and that dream might come crashing down on us….or not.
19 Oct 2012, 11:49 am
The Kinks are **** and will never be chocolate mousse, no matter how it is served up.
19 Oct 2012, 11:50 am
kayrap
19 Oct 2012, 12:37 pm
@Joe Maher-312: inane sarcasm won’t change anything…i recall the Rebels and the Force didn’t even have structures before being allowed to play Super rugby…
19 Oct 2012, 15:55 pm
In the words of Fatboy Slim (or some bloke he sampled):
Drop the hate
Forgive each other
19 Oct 2012, 19:09 pm
As Luke Watson’s manager/agent, Keohane has consistently pushed the Kings agenda in the media at the expense of the Lions and it is some of his very biased, unobjective, unethical blogs that have helped create this storm between the Kings and Lions. The Kings inclusion in Super Rugby would not only be of financial benefit to Keohane, but also to the company he recently “resigned” from. HSM have been courting the Kings for the publishing rights to their monthly magazine and game day programmes.
But Mr Roux I’m glad to hear that there was “no government intervention” in the Kings decision (wink wink). It was in fact your only smart answer as you know the IRB doesn’t take kindly to government intervention.
Finally to say, “the Unions (SARU) are now responsible for identifying SARU’s entrants in Vodacom Super Rugby. Participation in 2014 and 2015 is their call, as it was for 2013” is another cheap shot at the Lions to allow SARU to move the goalposts again, should the Kings finish in the relegation playoff spot.
My suggestion is that SARU should call time out and take a good look at themselves in the mirror!
Email Graeme at: graeme@butterbean.co.za
20 Oct 2012, 09:09 am
@Predawn; you make some good points but the Kings debacle is not only to the Lions detriment; it’s to the detriment of SA rugby. The Lions weren’t poster children for SA rugby and SARU should have applied some guidance. Imported players, over paid players and coaches, non-agents (keow) etc. SARU does not have SA rugby’s interests at heart. They are self-interested, along with a lot of people in SA rugby.
20 Oct 2012, 10:28 am
@husky-323: There are elements in every Union with agendas as you mention. In only a few are they not running things.
Their time is coming though, SA rugby is going to get worse before it gets better.
20 Oct 2012, 10:32 am
Nonsense article. There was one black face in the entire team last night for the Kingspears.
20 Oct 2012, 11:04 am
My prediction for today…. There will be a few sad supporters…..
20 Oct 2012, 11:14 am
Alan Solomons should be with the Boks management………..not the Kings
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