Habana out as Boks pick Brits
28 Oct 2012
Bryan Habana will miss the Springboks’ European tour but the selectors were bold in their selection of dynamic hooker Schalk Brits.
Habana has been in impressive form of late and his absence, as a result of a knee injury sustained in Saturday’s Currie Cup final, is a hammer blow. His unavailability opens the door for young Cheetahs winger Raymond Rhule, 19, who announced himself as a fine prospect with a series of strong performances in their domestic campaign.
Brits has consistently been among the best hookers in Europe since his move to London-based Saracens, but his claims have consistently been overlooked by the national selectors over the last three seasons. He has, however, made the cut as one of three hookers. With Adriaan Strauss expected to start, Brits will battle Chiliboy Ralepelle for the bench spot.
There is also a spot for Toulouse prop Gurthro Steenkamp, who had a strong first season for the French giants. He comes into the squad as loosehead cover in light of an injury to Coenie Oosthuizen.
Wing JP Pietersen returns to the squad after missing the Rugby Championship through injury and is one of five options in the position. Uncapped players Jano Vermaak, Franco van der Merwe, Lionel Mapoe and Arno Botha also make the cut.
The Springboks have an extensive injury list which has compromised the strength of the squad. Those who would have been considered but are sidelined are: Oosthuizen, Bismarck du Plessis, Tiaan Liebenberg, Andries Bekker, Siya Kolisi, Jacques Potgieter, Pierre Spies, Johan Goosen, Frans Steyn and Habana. Furthermore, Schalk Burger, Juan Smith and Heinrich Brüssow are still out injured.
‘We’ve got a settled core of players that did the job during the England series and the Rugby Championship and we decided to stick with them,’ said Meyer.
‘Obviously losing so many players to injury, the latest being Coenie, Tiaan, Andries, Jacques and Bryan during the Currie Cup, makes it difficult, but this now provides opportunities for other players.
‘Gurthrö and Schalk are experienced front rankers who have played for South Africa before and know the conditions in the northern hemisphere. This tour provides a good opportunity to assess them as we plan ahead. Arno, Lionel, Franco and Jano have all been part of our squad earlier in the season.
‘Raymond put up his hand for the Baby Boks and the Cheetahs and I’m very excited to see what he can do. It’s also great to have JP and Chiliboy back from injury as they bring a lot of experience to the squad.’
Meyer’s team face Ireland on 10 November, Scotland on 17 November and England on 24 November, and the coach predicted a testing tour.
‘Although the Springboks won on their last visit to Dublin [in 2010], they lost three in a row before that,’ he said. ‘In 2010, we lost to Scotland in Edinburgh. They beat the Wallabies in Australia earlier in the year, so it won’t be easy there.
‘And in June we’ve experienced first-hand how difficult and opponent England are. They will be fired up at Twickenham and it will be a challenging Test to end the tour with.
‘Our aim is to end the season on a positive note. We set ourselves high standards and we want to improve with every Test, but we have a team that is still gaining valuable experience as we strive to constantly be amongst the top sides in the world. We know we’re not there yet, but we’ve laid a foundation in the first nine Tests this year and we will build on that.
‘The World Cup in 2015 also takes place in England, so we will use this tour to see how our players adapt to the conditions as we look ahead to that very important tournament.’
Springbok squad – Willem Alberts, Arno Botha, Schalk Brits, Pat Cilliers, Marcell Coetzee, Juan de Jongh, Jean de Villiers (c), Jannie du Plessis, Eben Etzebeth, Francois Hougaard, Elton Jantjies, Zane Kirchner, Juandré Kruger, Pat Lambie, Francois Louw, Lionel Mapoe, Beast Mtawarira, Lwazi Mvovo, Ruan Pienaar, JP Pietersen, Chiliboy Ralepelle, Raymond Rhule, Gurthrö Steenkamp, Morné Steyn, Adriaan Strauss, Jaco Taute, CJ van der Linde, Flip van der Merwe, Franco van der Merwe, Jano Vermaak, Duane Vermeulen.
317 Comments
28 Oct 2012, 14:15 pm
Let the whingeing begin.
28 Oct 2012, 14:17 pm
Some good picks…like Brits being there!! Deon Fourie….man what must that boy do to get in the squad!!! Absolutely ridiculous that he not in the top 30 or so players in South africa!!
28 Oct 2012, 14:17 pm
@zub-1: I doubt it, the only complaints could be Fourie and Steyn, but Lambie and Elton are there and Flow would always start so…
28 Oct 2012, 14:21 pm
More worried about the gameplan than the selections.
28 Oct 2012, 14:22 pm
@Bagel-3:
Agree…
28 Oct 2012, 14:24 pm
Fourie should have been there…
Gurtho, Brits and JdJ in. Good picks. Surprised Ludik didn’t make it; he is better than Zane. Rhule is a nice selection too.
Hopefully this means that JdJ will start if JdV doesn’t make the first test.
I don’t like Vermaak.
Overall, enough to put out a very good first 15 IF Meyer selects correctly.
28 Oct 2012, 14:25 pm
8 Vermeulen
7 Arno Botha
6 Flow
28 Oct 2012, 14:25 pm
Arno Botha
Lionel Mapoe
Jano Vermaak
…The selection of these three above guys like Deon Fourie, Keegan Daniel, Gio Aplon, Jaco Reinach and Nic Groom is inexplicable.
But I expected it.
Heyneke and his skop-en-jag sterre to get a rude awakening in Europe.
28 Oct 2012, 14:26 pm
@mikeybrass-6: Not a fan of Vermaak either, but Groom and Reinach very raw.
Sharkies will be bummed about Ludick and Keegan Cullen.
28 Oct 2012, 14:27 pm
Wow no D Fourie. Not a good call by Meyer…AGAIN.
In order:
15 Taute
14 Pietersen
13 De Jongh
12 De Villiers
11 Hougaard
10 Lambie
9 Pienaar
8 Vermeulen
7 Alberts
6 Louw
5 Kruger
4 Etzebeth
3 Jannie Du Plessis
2 Adriaan Strauss
1 Tendai Mtawarira
16 Chilliboy Ralepelle
17 Pat Cilliers
18 Flip Van Der Merwe
19 Marcell Coetzee
20 Jano Vermaak
21 Elton Jantjes
22 Raymond Rhule
23 Schalk Brits
24 Gurthro Steenkamp
25 CJ Van Der Linde
26 Franco Van Der Merwe
27 Arno Botha
28 Morne Steyn
29 Lionel Mapoe
30 Lwazi Mvovo
31 Zane Kirchner
well thats what I would go for
28 Oct 2012, 14:27 pm
@Bagel-3: There will be complaints that there are too many Sharks/Bulls/Stormers, too few Sharks/Bulls/Stormers, too many quotas, too many Dutchies etc
28 Oct 2012, 14:28 pm
@Caper-8: Don’t compare Arno with Fourie, that’s stupid.
Ditto for Aplon and Mapoe (Who is awesome).
Maybe Aplon for Zane, Fourie for Marcell or Brits etc.
I still don’t see why a squad needs 3 hookers, by all means bring up another if need be.
28 Oct 2012, 14:28 pm
My changes:
Fourie for Brits
Reinach for Vermaak
Aplon for Mapoe
would have picked Kirchner as Lambie needs to play 10 as Goosen unavailable
28 Oct 2012, 14:30 pm
Mvovo over Ludik…lucky
28 Oct 2012, 14:32 pm
Aaaaah noooo , Dean Greyling didnt make it
28 Oct 2012, 14:32 pm
Kirchner, Mapoe, Mvovo, Pietersen, Rhule, Hougaard, Taute, De Jongh, De Villiers, Jantjies, Lambie, M. Steyn, Vermaak, Pienaar
A. Botha, Vermeulen, Alberts, Coetsee, Louw, Fl. Vd Merwe, Fr. Vd Merwe, Kruger, Etzebeth, JdP, Cilliers, Strauss, Chili, Brits, Steenkamp, CJ , Beast
No Habana out to injury and no Deon Fourie
No Jordaan or Ludick either, or Groom.. but Vermaak, Kirchner and Morne Steyn go along.
Dumb coach still don’t know whats cooking I hope Ireland give him what the fck for.
28 Oct 2012, 14:32 pm
really gutted about D Fourie.
28 Oct 2012, 14:33 pm
@mikeybrass-6:
Which would mean Taute at 13 as we don’t have another specialist 12, unless he plays JPP.
28 Oct 2012, 14:33 pm
@Bagel-9: Hougaard and Pienaar are the scrummies. Groom or Reinach would have benefited from the experience. It’s not like Vermaak is going to start.
28 Oct 2012, 14:34 pm
@Bagel-12: Why not compare Arno with Fourie? Deon Fourie is an excellent ball carrier. Arno Botha would not even be in the match 22 of the Sharks or Stormers.
28 Oct 2012, 14:34 pm
Now if only we van transform Etzebeth to a number 5 lock?
28 Oct 2012, 14:34 pm
Oh boy … Is Arno Botha really the next best flank? Better than Keegan Daniel? And Deon Fourie? And poor Gio Aplon must make peace with the fact that he will never play for the Springboks as long as Meyer is coach. He should go back to sevens. He will be more than welcome there.
Morné Steyn will start at flyhalf, with Jantjies on the bench as his backup. And Pat Lambie will play fullback for maybe three minutes at the end of each game. What a shame that he couldn’t get a start at flyhalf.
Continuity is a good thing, but it could also mean that a coach can make the same mistakes over and over again.
I can’t really stomach much more of the clueless game plan of “kick it high and hope for the best” and ‘dominate with slow, rumbling forwards”. Ah, well, netball is on TV now. It’s always an option.
28 Oct 2012, 14:35 pm
@grant10-17: Yeah…
Deserved a spot and would’ve been a great backup 6, but Flouw will do the job and Fourie is an average hooker unfortunately so understandably not picked in that position (Can’t throw for sh*t)
28 Oct 2012, 14:35 pm
who will replace Flo @ openside if he catches a niggle? marcell is not a deck player…
28 Oct 2012, 14:36 pm
@grant10-17: is he a better hooker than chiliboy & brits?
28 Oct 2012, 14:37 pm
@David-18: Bold would be Taute at 15, and JdV and Mapoe as centres. But Meyer won’t. He’ll put Zane at fullback with Taute and JdJ as the centres.
I’m deadly afraid that Morne will be the starting 10 if JdV doesn’t make the first test under the disguise of “experience” when he has consistently failed on the end of the year tour as a flyhalf.
28 Oct 2012, 14:38 pm
@DaveyJ-22: I reckon he is there as the backup 8.
28 Oct 2012, 14:39 pm
@Transformation-24:
You’ve actually just answered your own question. HM doesn’t believe in a specialist fetcher. Flo just ticks the other HM required boxes.
28 Oct 2012, 14:39 pm
@Transformation-24: Exactly. Fourie took Marcell to the cleaners on the deck. Hell, even Ginger cleaned up on the deck more times than Marcell.
Glad to see Guthro there though.
28 Oct 2012, 14:40 pm
@David-28: Fourie proved he is more than a deck player though too. Plus Fourie goes for space when he runs, making him very effective and hard to bring down.
28 Oct 2012, 14:40 pm
@mikeybrass-26:
I said the same thing earlier this morning about justifying Morne starting if JdV’s not available.
28 Oct 2012, 14:40 pm
@DaveyJ-22: August 2011
Bulls Director: Rugby, Heyneke
Meyer, who already indicated a while ago
that the 19-year old player might be playing
Currie Cup this year. “We will be looking at
blooding young players this year and Arno
will be one of those players we will be
looking at. He is big and strong and works
hard, all attributes we are looking for,”
Meyer said.
Arno Botha
Bio:
Physical: 1.90 & 102 kg
28 Oct 2012, 14:41 pm
@David-31: Yup. I remember. It’d be a miracle if we win while Steyn starts up north. This myth about needing Steyn in those conditions is a load of sh*t.
28 Oct 2012, 14:41 pm
@mikeybrass-30:
HM only believes in flankers moving to hooker, not the other way around.
28 Oct 2012, 14:42 pm
@Caper-20: Well I disagree.
Botha is class, and is primarily seen as an 8th man anyways. Offers an option in the lineout and is certainly a better ball carrier than Fourie. (See post 23 for my opinion on him).
Also Heyneke is allowed to have one or two bolters in his squad who he feels can make a big impact even if Joe Public disagrees.
When he makes stupid selections such a J. Potgieter or JJ at 13, by all means tear into him…
Post 10 has the team likely to be picked and it’s awesome (although Morne could ruin it)
28 Oct 2012, 14:44 pm
@David-34:
28 Oct 2012, 14:48 pm
@David-34: LOL
28 Oct 2012, 14:49 pm
Jantjies, Mvovo and Chiliboi were rewarded for their recent sublime performance!
Keep it up
28 Oct 2012, 14:50 pm
Fourie should be starting hooker not Strauss
and Fourie is better than both of Brits and Chili.. plus he is next best option at open side ahead of Coetsee
Fourie should be on the bus.. Heyneke Meyer is a thicker than ten plank dunce deluxe.
Vermaak is hopeless, so is Morne Steyn.. wtf they doing in the squad taking up valuable space?
Heyneke Meyer is one thick goddamn plank.. I hope Ireland bust his useless chops.
28 Oct 2012, 14:52 pm
only 4 Province players touring…this team can’t be referred to as a “traditional powers” team
28 Oct 2012, 14:52 pm
@Bagel-36:
When you posted the squad earlier you had JPP listed as wing/centre. Was that the official release?
28 Oct 2012, 14:54 pm
@Hondo-38: yes, juandre, taute, arno botha too
28 Oct 2012, 14:55 pm
@Hondo-38: you forgot msteyn
28 Oct 2012, 14:56 pm
I wish:
1 Gurthrö Steenkamp
2 Adriaan Strauss
3 Jannie du Plessis
4 Flip van der Merwe
5 Eben Etzebeth
6 Francois Louw
7 Arno Botha
8 Duane Vermeulen
9 Ruan Pienaar
10 Patrick Lambie
11 Raymond Rhule
12 Jean de Villiers
13 Juan de Jongh
14 JP Pietersen
15 Jaco Taute
16 Schalk Brits
17 Pat Cilliers
18 Juandré Kruger
19 Willem Alberts
20 Marcell Coetzee
21 Francois Hougaard
22 Elton Jantjies
28 Oct 2012, 14:57 pm
@Transformation-43:
Strange when the whole of SA says Steyn is one who really doesn’t deserve a place in the side and boom – he is there… I guess Lambie will be warming the bench for 15 once again…
28 Oct 2012, 14:57 pm
Selection included:
3 hookers (3 for one position)
3 scrumhalves (3 for one position)
3 Flyhalves (3 for one position)
But
1 Fullback (for one position)
So much fun is waiting to happened
28 Oct 2012, 14:58 pm
What bout something different and play attacking rugby…..
1. Gurthro Steenkamp
2. Chilliboy Ralepelle – fetcher
3. Jannie Du Plessis
4. Flip Van Der Merwe
5. Etzebeth – I think he can become the best 5 locks ever
6. Louw
7. Arno Botha – massive talent
8. Vermeulen
9. Hougaard
10. Jantjies
11. Raymond Rhule
12. De villiers
13. De Jong
14. Pietersen
15. Taute
16. Brits
17. CJ
18. Beast
19. J Kruger
20. Alberts
21. Pienaar
22. Lambie
28 Oct 2012, 14:59 pm
@hendrikp-44:
I wish too, but it aint gonna happen…
28 Oct 2012, 15:02 pm
@David-41: Copied and pasted from Sarugby website so I guess it’s pretty official?
28 Oct 2012, 15:02 pm
@Transformation-40: 4 Stormers, 6 Golden Lions. lol
28 Oct 2012, 15:05 pm
@assagai-39: fourie’s lineout throwing is dodgy skop!
28 Oct 2012, 15:05 pm
@zub-50: @zub-50:
What’s so funny? They have been a great side in the Currie Cup. Second on CC log…
28 Oct 2012, 15:06 pm
@Transformation-51: @Transformation-51: Understatement of the year
28 Oct 2012, 15:06 pm
@Gumboots-52:
Is a bit funny… They don’t even play super rugby……
28 Oct 2012, 15:08 pm
@phil72-54:
They have been way better than some other sides! No names mentioned…
28 Oct 2012, 15:10 pm
@phil72-54:
Then you get a side who almost had to play in the playoffs for second division and who were pumped by the Sharks with 7 players… Funny indeed…
28 Oct 2012, 15:15 pm
Deon Fourie misses out because he hasn’t been playing hooker.
His line-out throwing is as bad if not worse then Craig Burden.
28 Oct 2012, 15:15 pm
I am not quite sure why there is the perception that Steyn is the right player for slow, wet fields. At this stage his kicking out of hand and at goal is below par, and he stands so deep that his backline has to run 15 metres before they are even near the advantage line. Maybe he will shine and make me eat humble pie, but I doubt it. I would rather give the new generation of more exciting No 10s an opportunity to show what they can do.
Lambie has won a Currie Cup at flyhalf, he has World Cup and test experience, and he played very good rugby in three consecutive matches that will be the closest to the Northern Hemisphere conditions that one can get in South Africa. The only reason Steyn is there is if Meyer intends him to begin the tests. If Jantjies and Lambie are the two No 10, taking Steyn as backup is a funny idea.
28 Oct 2012, 15:16 pm
Brits finally
more talent than all the backs put together
I do not rate Fourie..
Jano very underrated halfback
28 Oct 2012, 15:17 pm
@Gumboots-56:
4 out of the six teams almost had to play relegation playoffs and the one of them went on to win the cup….. weird season!!!!
28 Oct 2012, 15:18 pm
@phil72-60:
To be sure…
28 Oct 2012, 15:18 pm
Fourie is the best hooker in the country by a country mile and also the best open side flank in the country by a country mile. its only dumb cuntry’s that can’t see sh’t for trees like national coaches who pick teachers pets in positions for friends.. that are thicker than planks when it comes down to selecting a national side…
I hope Ireland stuff this moron into his neanderthal zone where he belongs.. and everybody still saying how poor a coach PdV was.. this coach hasn’t even started showing what a dunce he is in comparison
Until SA get a coach with some brains running the show we are going to continue having the biggest talent pool with the weakest rugby brains in the world.
28 Oct 2012, 15:21 pm
Been here far too long…Cheers all…
The Currie Cup has come home
28 Oct 2012, 15:25 pm
Kirchner – poor selection
Mvovo – poor selection
M. Steyn – poor selection
J. Vermaak – poor selection
Strauss – poor selection
Chili – so so selection
5 – 6 players that shouldn’t be on tour, maybe more
28 Oct 2012, 15:26 pm
@assagai-62:
That’s what they were saying about Derick Minnie last year.
Grow up.
28 Oct 2012, 15:27 pm
@assagai-64:
Adriaan Strauss is a poor selection?
Now I’ve heard it all.
28 Oct 2012, 15:29 pm
Arno Botha
Schalk Brits
Juan de Jongh
Lionel Mapoe
Raymond Rhule
Brave but very good selections looking forward…………..
28 Oct 2012, 15:32 pm
I wonder whether Keo had some inside info before writing his Brits article earlier last week? I notice he was tweeting with Schalk a bit later.
28 Oct 2012, 15:34 pm
@hendrikp-65: who’s been saying dunce boy .. you?
Deon Fourie is the most prolific ground ball in your face player in this country by a thousand light years showing up all the Sharks boks in tandem yesterday on their own home turf .. and who is far more prolific than Brits in the trenches who is a thousand times better than Adriaan Strauss..
yeah Strauss is a poor selection.. haven’t you heard it yet.. well now you have.. dunce deluxe
28 Oct 2012, 15:35 pm
@David-68: Definitely.
Same thing with Big Joe too. Notice how all his other writers conform to his selection punts as well ala Sadie for the Bok WC squad last year… Pathetic.
28 Oct 2012, 15:36 pm
How do they leave out the best performing NH-based SA player, Bakkies Botha?
In fact, I’d go as far as to say he’s the best lock of any nationality playing in the NH at present.
28 Oct 2012, 15:40 pm
@phil72-67:
how many starting spots you reckon any of them going to get?
how many will even make the bench?
28 Oct 2012, 15:43 pm
Rhule and Mapoe are great selections but I’m afraid HM’s window dressing.
These guys won’t leave the bench. Doubt whether they will even get to sit there.
28 Oct 2012, 15:43 pm
@Big Hit-71:
Etzebeth and Bakkies as a combo. The opposition will have sleepless nights
28 Oct 2012, 15:44 pm
@wp_boytjie-74:
Might just happen a the near future…….
Four nation next year? just need to give Etzebeth some game time at 5…..
28 Oct 2012, 15:46 pm
@assagai-69:
you Deon Fourie brother?
Adriaan Strauss was consistently one of best SA players in Super rugby and playing not for a top side as well.
28 Oct 2012, 15:48 pm
Arno Botha obviously is special talent
28 Oct 2012, 15:49 pm
Chilli was always our second choice hooker… sure he will start…. Will be interesting who coach will put on the bench? personally would go with Brits…..We have to many bulldozing one dimensional type forwards playing at the moment!
28 Oct 2012, 15:51 pm
I don’t trust this coach further than I can smell him.. he’s a g’damn bullshitter supreme only interested in buttering up his own puffed up pathetic backside, he is not a genuine coach or genuine person by any stretch of any imagination.. he’s a bullshitter and its showing bad.
28 Oct 2012, 15:52 pm
I would start Schalk Brits as well.
Chilli is overrated, scrummaging not good
28 Oct 2012, 15:54 pm
@phil72-75: At this stage I think Eben will do better at 5. He is “an enforcer” at 4 (traditional role) but played his high school rugby at 5. He was only moved to 4 by Matthew Proudfoot. Proudfoot said at the time that Eben could be a “hybrid” lock. I tend to agree with him.
J Kruger not the long term solution at 5. Bakkies’ age is counting against him but for this EOYT he could have add a lot of value.
Having said that, Eben can still compete at 4. The mistake the Sharks made was not to take enough quick balls at the front of the lineout. Eben still doesn’t get off the ground quick enough to compete at 4 (when it is a quick throw). When the opponents throw a lob ball or just straight up ( those that know lineout play should know what I’m talking about) Eben is at his most dangerous because he “just gets up straight in the air” because of his height advantage. When the Sharks used Alberts at the front of the lineout they were the most effective. If a hooker’s nerves get to him he simply can’t throw good balls at the bak of a lineout or in the middle even.
Eben, if he doesn’t get injured, can play 130 plus games for the Boks and might even go to 150 !!
28 Oct 2012, 15:54 pm
@assagai-62: i see you are in denial that his lineout throwing is dodge & are rattling on about deck & loose play.
28 Oct 2012, 15:55 pm
Deon Fourie has out played Adriaan Strauss every time they met.. in every facet of play.. either at 2 or at 6.. he has also outplayed every other hooker or open side flank in the country.. but he don’t make Heyneke’s team either at 2 or at 6 which makes him 5th or 6th hooker in Heyneke’s eyes or 4th or 5th open side flank..
shows how much this dumb doos Heyneke actually knows about rugby.. which ain’t very much.
28 Oct 2012, 15:55 pm
@greatest13gerber-80:
Was never a Chilli fan! But last 18 months or so he has been playing awesome rugby and then got injured. Personally would give him a chance again with Brits covering!
28 Oct 2012, 15:55 pm
@CharlesM-81: back of the lineout
28 Oct 2012, 15:56 pm
Eben should be at 5 and Alberts or Elstadt at 4 .. klaar.
28 Oct 2012, 15:57 pm
@greatest13gerber-76: Meyer has to start Strauss for the first test IMO. I have always rated Brits…. imagine what he can do off the bench in the last 20 or 25 minutes!!
28 Oct 2012, 15:59 pm
@assagai-86: Elstadt IMO lacks a couple of cm in height. He is not very competitive on opposition ball
28 Oct 2012, 15:59 pm
Fourie is better than Brits at 2.. Brits might be better at 12 or 13…and better than Chili.. and Strauss .. and better than Coetsee at 6
where does that leave Fourie … out the back of the bus while Heyneke takes his darlings Steyn and Vermaak and Kirchner along for the ride.
28 Oct 2012, 16:00 pm
@assagai-86: The idea of Alberts at 4 is not that bad. He can take his own ball (if it is a quick throw) with ease. With Eben and Duane we’ll still have enough players to compete at the lineout
28 Oct 2012, 16:01 pm
Brad Thorn about same height as Elstadt.. about same height as Juan Smith.. either Elstadt or Alberts or PSDT at 4 / 7.. Eben should play 5
28 Oct 2012, 16:03 pm
Yes yes Chilli game and form has come a long way.
Brits off bench in final 20 or so…yes, impact would be massive.
think Brits capable easily of covering 10,12,13,15
28 Oct 2012, 16:07 pm
@assagai-83: I am a Fourie fan but if he is under pressure his lineout throws are simply not up to standard
28 Oct 2012, 16:13 pm
Deon Fourie would have been great cover for F Louw……if Flo gets hurt we farked.
28 Oct 2012, 16:14 pm
Chilli and Brits both skilled players with far more to offer than the one dimensional bashing game………. The possibility of Etsebeth at 5 and maybe Alberts at 4 with Bakkies joining the fame hopefully sooner than later. This will equate to a speedier back 3…. can only be good
28 Oct 2012, 16:16 pm
@phil72-95:
By speedier back 3 I mean faster loose forwards…
28 Oct 2012, 16:18 pm
@grant10-94: Who in the touring party would you substitute for Fourie ? There were only 5 loosies selected or would you pick him instead of Chilliboy (wishful thinking ?) ?
28 Oct 2012, 16:18 pm
The side is looking somewhat green. Players like Duane, Gurthro and Jannie are going to have to lead by example. Duane must be proud be very proud to make the tour after missing out for years. Very very glad JP is back
28 Oct 2012, 16:22 pm
I am a huge fan of Alberts but he seems to have off days now and again. Hopefully he is not carrying an injury.
28 Oct 2012, 16:23 pm
@phil72-21: Did you see the damage that Eben did at the front of the line out yesterday??
Move him to 5 and you nullify all that. He needs to be where he is. At 4.
28 Oct 2012, 16:24 pm
Will be interesting to see if Rhule has the complete skillset. ie. Good under high ball, can kick well, good tackle technique… He might still be a bit raw
28 Oct 2012, 16:24 pm
@CharlesM-81: Yes, but Eben caused all sorts of damage at 4, I say leave him there. Get another 5 lock rather.
28 Oct 2012, 16:27 pm
@stormersboy-102: This will be an important tour for Eben. The tight 5s in NH take their tight stuff very seriously. He will have his hands full and should come away with excellent experience.
28 Oct 2012, 16:28 pm
@CharlesM-97: Hi Charles….I read now they are goingto add 1 more player….taking squad to 32….I would add Deon….not sure why player 32 not selected as yet.
28 Oct 2012, 16:28 pm
We haven’t seen Fourie as a 2 for a long time, so everyone clamoring for his inclusion ahead of Brits have lost the plot!
Its like selecting Hougaard@11 for Boks when he hasn’t performed there for quite sometime and it shows in his defensive lapses and his attacking positioning as a wing.
Fourie has been good but can’t crack nod ahead of the rest of the pack unfortunately
28 Oct 2012, 16:30 pm
Boks will put out a good 22…..
Just need to leave M Steyn in the stands….
28 Oct 2012, 16:32 pm
@stormersboy-102: I know, but read what I’ve said about the opposition. He caused damage because of Burden. But he will be 21 tomorrow and he can develop at 4 over time. The problem is with Bekker out there are no real contenders for the 5 jumper. Juandre Kruger completely lost the plot against the Bulls. Who would you suggest at 5 ?
28 Oct 2012, 16:33 pm
@stormersboy-102:
Our problem is 5… at 4 we have Bakkies, Flip, Possibly Alberts etc…. The boy is tall and athletic and only 20…. He will be the best 5 lock in the world given the opportunity …..
28 Oct 2012, 16:33 pm
If they pick Deon they must pick him at 6 or not at all, he is a good hooker but not Springbok material.
As a specialist 6 however he has shown himself to be the best one playing in SA at the moment, i.e. fit and not playing overseas.
On that basis he did deserve a tour call up.
You need someone to cover for FLo. None of the other guys do that effectively.
28 Oct 2012, 16:34 pm
@stormersboy-109:
Brits will cover flo….
28 Oct 2012, 16:35 pm
In reality HM picking Daniels over Arno would’ve been the biggest window dressing exercise.
Under HM the following players should forget about being in a Bok squad,let alone playing for the Boks: Daniels, Aplon, Brussouw, Peter Grant…
28 Oct 2012, 16:36 pm
What everyone´s forgetting is that Meyer has gotten off to a really kakstart to his Bok coaching career. If he had been at 90% winning ratio right now we probably would´ve seen a more exciting experimental or developmental squad tour the Eilandjies.
The selections smack of a coach under pressure to NOT LOSE the tour games (sort of what the Sharks tried to do yesterday). The strategy with this group is clearly to “build” on the mindset already in place. Picking players too far outside that dogma just wouldn´t work in the short term, which is what the thinking obviously is.
I liked Meyer´s vision of winning every game, as opposed to the usual “judge me at the world cup” rubbish, but there has to be a balance. The problem in SA rugby is that the form players mostly seem to lose out either way.
28 Oct 2012, 16:37 pm
Is there a team that Heyneke doesn’t think is hugely challenging for the Boks? His first season a dismal failure and he’s already talking about the 2015 RWC. Entire Bok coaching team is a joke.
28 Oct 2012, 16:38 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-113:
Dont worry to much!!!!! Spies will be back soon………
28 Oct 2012, 16:40 pm
@CharlesM-107: @phil72-108: I hear what you guys are saying, believe me, but starting to move him around for the sake of the team may damage his long term development for short term gain.
I would go for another specialist 5. Juandre has played in the NH and i agree that he wasn’t great at the end but I wouldn’t throw him away just yet, and we have Van Zyl there too. I would have considered Juandre Marais who could work out nicely in the future.
Yes we have Bakkies and Flip but really, Eben for me must be left to develop himself at 4. In (fairly short) time he could be the best in the world.
I had a chat to him a few seasons ago, and I asked him specifically whether he sees himself as a 4 or a 5 and he was quite adamant that he saw himself as a 4, so i say let him stay there.
That’s my viewpoint, my opinion.
28 Oct 2012, 16:40 pm
@Lions_Soutie-99: why can’t we start Alberts off the bench, he does look to be tiring towards this latter part of the year.
My loose trio to start:
6 Cotzee
7 Louw
8 Vermeluen
With Alberts coming off the bench. Besides he and Vermeulen are similar players. Not to say that must be the starting loose trio for all games, come an sundry, but take a play out of Plum’s book and apply your mind in sqaud selections, DAMMIT
28 Oct 2012, 16:42 pm
Going to be damn interesting next year when / if all the injured players become available.
28 Oct 2012, 16:42 pm
@papaown-116: You certainly wouldn’t play Alberts for 80 minutes these days. He makes a big impact for a short time it’s true.
28 Oct 2012, 16:43 pm
@Lions_Soutie-101: Rhule has immense talent but is quite raw, and if HM has learnt anything from International rugby, hopefully its the fact that such players should start off the bench, @least for their 1st 4/5 games.
Then the bright lights doesn’t affect their game!
One really can create greats and a good culture if that is done as a standard, same for Jantjies, Goosen and Taute.
28 Oct 2012, 16:43 pm
lol nother bad squad by HM. I can count the amount tries by Mapoe in the last few years on one hand, Taute was ordinary in his 2 tests, Kirchner plain ka’k, Mvovo unimpressive this year for Boks, Arno Botha a Bulls bench warmer, Vermaak not good enough but a Bull, CJ unable to hold a starting place at WP or Lions, Chilli both just clumsy and over-rated.
What about Bjorn Basson, Aplon, Craig Burden who has had a great season and was in the Bok Squad recently, Anton Bresler impressive all year, Willie le Roux fantastic all year & creates tries out of nothing, Robert Ebersohn a proper 13, Sarel Pretorius or Reinach for 9.
I could go watch the Boks in Edinburgh vs Scotland again and quite cheaply, but will rather not subject myself to the embarrassment like the last 2 times and it will probably be even worse with HM in charge.
28 Oct 2012, 16:43 pm
@grant10-117: Yes how would your Stormers starting loose trio look?
Assume that you have the following to choose from:
Burger
Vermeulen
Kolisi
Fourie
Elstadt
Rhodes
Carr
Give me your 6, 7 and 8.
28 Oct 2012, 16:43 pm
@stormersboy-118:
Alberts future lies in replacing Bakkies after 30min…. like Danie use to….
28 Oct 2012, 16:44 pm
@stormersboy-115: I think you are right!He should be given time to develop at 4. If Bekker gets back (at least it is not his back keeping him out of EOYT) the 2 of them should be a great combination. I’ve just been thinking in terms of what is best for the team….but we know what that did to Pienaar, Lambie, Frans Steyn etc in the past. So I guess you are right.
I just wish Province could get someone to replace De Kock Steenkamp !!
28 Oct 2012, 16:46 pm
@daydreamer-120: Robert Ebersohn’s talent is definitley not being rewarded !!
I’m out again – enjoy the rest of the day fellow rugby lovers !!
28 Oct 2012, 16:47 pm
@stormersboy-115: We really are quick as Saffa’s to want to throw players out.
Juandre was deputy for Bekker and did a solid job, bar 1 or 2 area’s and I wouldn’t fret with him starting as our number 5.
Once again our sheer number of players in our base makes us too willing to discard players and try someone new. We put them on a peddle stool only to break them down when they don’t produce a M.O.M performance every game.
B.S man
28 Oct 2012, 16:48 pm
Adriaan Strauss is rubbish
28 Oct 2012, 16:48 pm
Alberts and Vermeulen will be great in the NH conditions….with Flo wedont have to stand back for any 1 of the 3 teams we play
28 Oct 2012, 16:49 pm
@CharlesM-123: Amen brother I’m with you on the Steenkamp issue, we have always agreed on that. Did you see the ball that Marais stole from him? Right out of his hands. Made me mad.
I mentioned to SharksLover that the Van Zyl move to the Sharks has slipped under the radar in the midst of all the Taute and Jantjies hype but he could be a great asset to any team. I rate the guy, have for a few seasons now. I’d start him behind Bekker and give him an opportunity personally. See how he goes. He’s a classic 5 lock, has great hands, physical enough, ticks all the boxes for me. Can’t see any weaknesses, but you never know until you test him at international level.
28 Oct 2012, 16:52 pm
My starting team:
15 Kirchner
14 JPP
13 JdJ
12JdV
11 Mvovo
10 Lambie
9 Pienaar
8 Vermeulen
7 Flouw
6 Coetzee
5 J Kruger
4 Eben
3 Jannie dp
2 Strauss
1 Beast
Subs: Guthro, Chilli, Flip, Alberts, Hougaard, Jantjies, Taute
that’s for the 1st game and more experimentation can take place off the bench as we advance, but MS and Hougaard mustn’t start in their current fragile state, caused by HM’s player mismanagement
28 Oct 2012, 16:53 pm
@papaown-125:
Will always have him in the squad.. but not good enough to start!
28 Oct 2012, 16:53 pm
@papaown-129:
Mvovo is rubbish!!!! have you watched him play lately?
28 Oct 2012, 16:54 pm
If it’s a case of Mapoe vs Jordaan, I would have gone with Paul Jordaan.
28 Oct 2012, 16:55 pm
@stormersboy-118: fully agree, that doesn’t take away from him being a massive talent and player we absolutely need.
What would your team look like?
28 Oct 2012, 16:55 pm
For me I would have had Aplon in before Mvovo. I’d play Mapoe before Mvovo too.
28 Oct 2012, 16:58 pm
@stormersboy-121: Hi Stormers boy
I would always look at the out and out fetcher type at 6….so D Fourie would crack the nod for me….
7 I would go with Kolisi
8 vermeulen.
Superrugby all about rotation …..
If Deon Fourie at 2 then Kolisi at 6
Schalk 7
Vermeulen 8
But i think AC will prefer
6 Kolisi
7 Schalk
8 duanne….
Elstaht should be back at 4 with Etsebeth….
Rhodes provides good cover for 4 and 7 as well….
Great to have the depth….
28 Oct 2012, 16:59 pm
@W.P-126: @phil72-131: Both of you kindly justify your statements and don’t just spew unqualified commentary
28 Oct 2012, 17:01 pm
@stormersboy-121:
Burger, Kolisi, Vermeulen
Fourie and Elstadt on the bench.
Fantastic impact players and versatile – bench roles will suit them.
Rhodes similar to Elstadt, but I reckon Elstadt is better.
Ntubeni also looks promising as does Carr.
Steenkamp is solid but not spectacular.
28 Oct 2012, 17:01 pm
@puff-137: is Burger definitely returning?
28 Oct 2012, 17:03 pm
@papaown-136:
What more than rubbish do you want… The luckiest player to regain his position in the squad… HM must of had a brain freeze when habana got injured!
28 Oct 2012, 17:04 pm
@papaown-133: True. To be honest if I were to pick a 15 it would look like this:
1. Beast
2. Strauss
3. Jannie
4. Eben
5. Juandre
6. Flo
7. Alberts
8. Vermeulen
9. Pienaar
10. Elton
11. Aplon
12. Jean Div
13. JDJ
14. JPP
15. Lambie.
16. Pat
17. Coetzee
18. Van Zyl
19. Britz
20. Hougaard
21. Rhule
22. Kirschner
Id go for a 3/3 split because one of the chief reasons for picking a guy like Rhule would be to see him tested for a short period of time, to see if he has what it takes.
I wouldn’t pick Flip in all the games automatically, i”d like to see what Van Zyl can do, I think he has what it takes but we won’t know for sure if we don’t try him. I don’t want to be blooding him against NZ or Aus and I am concerned about Bekker’s long term playing prospects and so would like to have 2 alternate 5s with test experience to call on next year if we need to.
i would also bring in a guy like Mapoe on the bench for a game (we have 3 tests and I would like to see all the squad get some game time) as well as flip later.
Bakkies, i wouldn’t bother with anymore, between Flip and Eben we are covered at 4 and i’d only consider Bakkies if there is an injury.
28 Oct 2012, 17:07 pm
Would be brilliant if Stormers could do a deal for F Louw……perhaps with Koster going to Bath a deal may be in the offing?
28 Oct 2012, 17:08 pm
@stormersboy-140: You might change your mind regarding Bakkies if you had watched him play this year. Toulon won 60-0 at the weekend and he has been their best player this season.
Flip Van der Merwe is a poor imitation of Botha and your Etzebeth-Kruger combo is underpowered.
To be honest, the SA pack could be frightening if the likes of Steenkamp, Botha, Beast, Etzebeth, Bismarck, Alberts, Burger, Elstadt, Vermuelen etc were all playing in the same side. Probably a good thing for the rest of us that they aren’t!
28 Oct 2012, 17:09 pm
The only reason Eben started playing at 4 is because Quinn Roux was injured pre the start of the S15 I think. Eben at 5 and Quinn at 4 for the WP babies last year (until Eben got injured) was a combo made in locking heaven IMHO.
A lock pairing that would eventually smash all comers, if kept together……
Yes, I still hope that Quinn Roux returns to WP, plays 4 to Eben’s 5 – with Rhynhardt Elstadt doing the Danie Rossouw thing…….
Ok, probably just a dream.
28 Oct 2012, 17:12 pm
How can rhule make this team? He was killed vs wp and also had a shocker vs the kings… He was very banggat after 2 big hits….nabove willie le roux? Quota gemors
28 Oct 2012, 17:12 pm
@Big Hit-138: 2nd Game of the S15 next year if all goes to plan. Will he be the same? Will he even want to be the same? Who knows.
Then again, his year off rugby (if his previous long term layoffs have been anything to go by) will probably see him return guns blazing……Where to play him though?
Stormer coaches sh y te about to get real come selection.
28 Oct 2012, 17:13 pm
@Big Hit-138:
The talk is he will play in next year’s S15.
Saw him at the gym the other day.
He was pumping the knee on a stationary bike for up to two hours.
Looked focused.
28 Oct 2012, 17:13 pm
The only gripe i have with the squad, is how and why do you choose Mvovo over Aplon???????????????????????
28 Oct 2012, 17:14 pm
If Stormers get F Louw and Quinn Roux back I may be tempted to say it would be a squad almost as good as the Sharks!
28 Oct 2012, 17:16 pm
Ok, now for the customary selection rant:
Morne Steyn must be a ‘Reach for a Dream’ kid or something? Becausefuckknows how else he gets to travel with the Boks……
There are none so blind as wannabe Messiahs who can’t determine miracle from wishful thinking.
28 Oct 2012, 17:16 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-143:
No, I think you are right.
This is more than likely the way it will be sometime in the near future.
Also rate Roux highly.
28 Oct 2012, 17:17 pm
@grant10-141:
Agreed.
I think the Burger, Louw, Vermeulen loose trio is unbelievable and exceptionally well-balanced.
With Kolisi on the bench, I reckon that may well be the best loose forward options out of all the S15 teams – I’m talking SA, Aus and NZ.
28 Oct 2012, 17:18 pm
@puff-151:
Okay, maybe I’m biased
28 Oct 2012, 17:21 pm
@puff-152:
Slightly?
28 Oct 2012, 17:22 pm
@phil72-153:
just a leeeetle.
28 Oct 2012, 17:24 pm
Sharks have good balance and options in their loosies too.
Kanko will be back for S15, right?
28 Oct 2012, 17:33 pm
Next year:
Bismark
Coenie
Bekker
Brussow
Burger
Kolisi
Juan Smith
Frans Steyn
Habana
Basson
Fit again.
And
Steenkamp
Botha
Rossouw
Kanko
Du Preez
Available for the Boks.
Let’s hope.
Lekker!
28 Oct 2012, 17:33 pm
Not too many complaints about the squad.
Question mark over the selection of Schalk Brits though. Meyer just the other day said that he would only select an overseas based player if there was not one of similar quality available in SA. I believe we have more than just two playing here in SA.
Questions wrt the run on team:
I see that Rapport is speculating that JPP may partner JdV at center. If that is true, it would be a travesty. Still the bigger is always better kak, it looks like.
Ruhle is a LEFT wing. Mvovo is a LEFT wing. Hougaard is the incumbent LEFT wing. Why so many of them? There’s only place for one of them in the team.
Only JPP is an experienced RIGHT wing while Mapoe played there in the past but has been playing outside center mostly this season.
28 Oct 2012, 17:36 pm
@puff-155: The will be missing Bissie for the 1st few games of the S15 I think? Which leaves them very short of a deck player – as was evident yesterday……
They will have to get their loosie balance spot on, or else they might be in some bother.
28 Oct 2012, 17:38 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-158:
Agreed.
Plus Sharks have no depth at prop beyond Beast and the Doc, despite all the talk about how much youngsters like Chadwick and Herbst have grown this year.
28 Oct 2012, 17:40 pm
I ventured the opinion that Sharks would be suspect against the deck play of D Fourie and Vermeulen…..and had the suspect lineout.
great when a plan comes together
28 Oct 2012, 17:42 pm
ill always support the boks, but as long as hm is the coach ill have no hopes of big results. Hougaard? CJ Van der Linde? Morné Steyn? Zane Kirchner? Flip Van der Merwe?
28 Oct 2012, 17:42 pm
Highveld Lions are falling apart.
Looks like the occasion has got too big for them.
28 Oct 2012, 17:42 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-158:
The teams will be going for them now that they know a “nearly under 21″ WP team can beat them+ Pyper at the Tank.
They are in trouble if you ask me- might not even sneak into the top six again.
28 Oct 2012, 17:43 pm
Sharks would do well to lure the likes of Heinke Van Der Merwe and Eugene Van Staden back from overseas.
28 Oct 2012, 17:50 pm
5 wings for a three match tour makes no sense.
Ruhle and Mvovo only going along to hold the tackle bags.
Oh yes, Jano Vermaak? On what grounds?
28 Oct 2012, 17:56 pm
Imo its time to drop Hougaard…
He’s loss form at 9 and after the currie cup he probably doesnt even rank as one of the top 9s and he’s not a specialist winger…
Mvovo (and Rhule) can do the job much better and he is a player(s) of colour, why the hell arent they getting opportunities? Hougaard blew it at 9 and doesnt deserve a starting spot, especially not at wing. Dont even get me started on MS getting a spot in the match 22 ahead of Jantjies and Lambie for that matter! -Now that Taute is also competing for the number 2 spot at 15.
At the very least make Hougaard a super sub as a wing replacement, he played his best rugby for the boks as an impact player at wing…
JdJ and JDV to be the centers. For heavens sake Taute is a specialist 15!
28 Oct 2012, 17:56 pm
Now that I looked at the squad again, I see that it is made up like this:
Bulls: 8 players
Sharks: 7 players
Lions: 6 players
WP: 4 players
Cheetahs: 2 players
Overseas: 4 players
Does this even make sense?
28 Oct 2012, 17:58 pm
@nama1-165:
On what grounds do Hougaard deserve his starting spat at wing? He could be a utility back on the bench, to cover 9 and wing… But seriously he doesnt deserve a starting spot ahead of specialist wingers!
28 Oct 2012, 17:59 pm
@Jeez-166:
I reckon this is what we shall see from Meyer:
9) Pienaar
10) Lambie
11) Hougaard (would have been Habana)
12) De Villiers
13) De Jongh (although I won’t be surprised if we see Taute line up here)
14) Pieterson
15) Kirchner
bench backs:
20) Morne Steyn
21) Lionel Mapoe (would have been Hougaard if Habana was fit)
22) Jaco Taute (unless Meyer starts him at 13 – then this spot will go to De Jongh)
28 Oct 2012, 18:00 pm
This coach and the selectors are freakin jokes.
Time for Ian Mac and Jooste to step down. Get new people in with fresh ideas.
28 Oct 2012, 18:00 pm
@Jeez-166:
You suggesting we drop Hougaard, probably the best natural talented back line player we have seen in SA over the past few years…. and replace him with the likes of? Would probably be better to choose him at a position and stick with it?
28 Oct 2012, 18:04 pm
@nama1-167:
No doubt that Heyneke has powder blue eyes.
If Schalk, Bekker and Kolisi were all fit, the make-up would’ve looked very different.
And I do feel sorry for guys like Deon and Aplon. Deon, in particular, has had a huge season.
28 Oct 2012, 18:06 pm
@puff-169:
I dont know why JdJ is in the squad. HM is wasting that kid’s time. It doesnt seem like HM rates him … How Taute leapfrogged him i dont know… At this point the amount of combinations and selections makes it truly difficult.. But at center it should be simple. They play together at WP and he is a specialist center… He deserves a chance… And after Jantjies started against the ABs he should be on the bench ahead of MS… Lambie to start.. Unless HM starts with MS!!!
28 Oct 2012, 18:07 pm
@nama1-167: We have a S15 to win next year
The fewer players we have touring, the better! He doesn’t get to fuckthemup gangnam style. I wish we had ZERO representatives 
(only said half sarcastically…)
Sadly, he has: Vermeulen, Etsebeth, de Jongh and Jean Div to screw around with….added to that our NEW players, Taute, Cilliers and Jantjies…..
Too many players of ours are travelling north…..
28 Oct 2012, 18:07 pm
@nama1-157: I don’t even know why we are surprised to hear HM wants JPP in the midfield.
While its not the worst move as I feel JPP’s renewal@the Sharks was due to his stint@13 I just feel like WHAT must a player like JdJ still do to prove he is the best option@13?
Its soo short sighted from HM as he’ll play anyone ,including Taute and Engelbrecht, ahead of JdJ. That must be the ultimate window dressing exercise and should perhaps discard him as he has Daniels.
28 Oct 2012, 18:08 pm
@nama1-157: I’m happy with the inclusion of Rhule, but what other right eing options do we genuinely have?
Ndungane?
28 Oct 2012, 18:09 pm
@papaown-176:
Mapoe has played quite a bit on the right wing.
28 Oct 2012, 18:10 pm
Why do people accept so readily that Lambie must be selected ahead of Jantjies? This, after Jantjies sat on the bench against England when Morne started. He sat on the bench in the RC when Goosen started. Now he must sit on the bench again only for Lambie to start? Bullshit!!!
Give the boy the chance to prove himself.
Best possible back line from this squad would be:
15. Kirchner (The best Bok player this season with Etzebeth and Habana)
14. JPP
13. De Jongh
12. De Villiers
11. Ruhle
10. Jantjies
9. Pienaar (Only because of his experience in Europe)
Reserves:
Hougaard
Lambie
Mapoe
28 Oct 2012, 18:11 pm
@Jeez-173:
Absolutely agree.
I would have:
10) Lambie
12) JDV
13) JDJ
15) Kirchner (for now)
with Jantjies and Taute on the bench.
28 Oct 2012, 18:12 pm
@Luiz VRC-161: Oi! Flip had his best game against the All Blacks in NZ, and that performance away from him demands he not be bracketed in the same sentence as those other players!
Respect good performances in a Bok jumper please and leave provincialism out of this!
28 Oct 2012, 18:13 pm
@phil72-171:
I dont know what rugby youve been watching…imo H is a shadow of the player he once was… He’s been awful at 9 and he’s nothing special at wing… So yes drop him, why not? He needs to regain the form he showed as an impact player during the world cup before he deserves selection. Mvovo, Rhule (now there is some talent we havent seen in a while, apart from Goosen) deserve a starting spot ahead of H. Even a player like Jordaan is much better suited to fill the postion as utility back! I would not want Hougaard to be the backup 9. He cant even get his box kicks away without being charged down!
28 Oct 2012, 18:14 pm
@nama1-178:
I hughly doubt that Ruhle will leapfrog Hougaard or Mvovo (or Mapoe for that matter) to claim a starting wing berth.
Not right now anyway.
Lambie deserves a crack at 10 to show Meyer what he is made of.
If he performs well, I would say that Morne Steyn’s test days would have to be numbered with Goosen, Lambie and Jantjies all there.
28 Oct 2012, 18:16 pm
@Jeez-168:
I’ve been preaching that viewpoint the whole season. He is best suited as an impact player.
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-174:
That’s one way of looking at it.
Yeah, the S15 trophy is the holy grail.
28 Oct 2012, 18:17 pm
@nama1-178:
And Kirchner the best Bok player this season with Etzebeth and Habana?
Are you smoking your socks?
I rate Kirchner far more than most of the bloggers on here and the general public.
I believe he is solid but certainly not spectacular.
He is not going to win you a game like Israel Dagg or Kurtley Beale.
He is simply holding the 15 spot at the moment until Taute proves himself, IMO.
But the best Bok this year???
Better than Francois Louw?
Better than Jannie Du Plessis?
Better than Marcell Coetzee?
Come now…
28 Oct 2012, 18:18 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-174:
And early December, the Stormers if not all Super rugby franchises begin their pre-season conditioning. But Vermeulen, Etzebeth and even JDV have had injury enforced lay-offs during the season and are hungry for rugby.
28 Oct 2012, 18:20 pm
@Jeez-181:
People still remember the try he scored in the S14 final in 2010 and will forever select him because of that one moment of magic.
Stupid really.
He should be dropped and send to his province to rediscover his mojo. He’s lost it totally.
28 Oct 2012, 18:22 pm
@I am a stormer-185:
JDV – injury enforced layoff?
Aside from the last two weeks, the guy has played a hell of a lot of rugby this year.
He is committed and a trooper, but sheeeeeeeez he must be exhausted.
Feel for him though.
Had to watch the Boks win RWC 2007 and WP win Currie Cup 2012 from the sidelines.
Feel for Schalk too.
How he would have loved to have been part of Saturday’s success on the field.
Oh well, WP will just have to win it again next year!
28 Oct 2012, 18:22 pm
@puff-182:
“Lambie deserves a crack at 10 to show Meyer what he is made of.”
Don’t you think that Jantjies also “deserves” a crack?
28 Oct 2012, 18:25 pm
@172 Phil72
So do you believe in playing players into form@International level?
Talking about starting Hougaard becuase of his talent and potential, that’s Nonsense man. Players know when they’re not playing well and when they continually get selected to start it doesn’t help them but adds more pressure on!
There’s nothing wrong with playing him off the bench or dropping him completely to sort out his mental space. Since when did being a Bok represent a free ride!
What happened to every game could be your last game do give it your all??
28 Oct 2012, 18:27 pm
@177 Puff
Mapoe is as much a right wing as Taute is a centre.
Sure they can do the job but that’s not where they’re best utilised…
28 Oct 2012, 18:27 pm
So peeps.. Deal with this! Spies will be the next SA Captain!. Hougaard will play SH with Goosen playing 10…. all the speculation about pienaar, Bambie, Jantjies,
Vermeulen…. This will remain speculation! The plan is in place!
28 Oct 2012, 18:27 pm
@puff-187:
Jean’s injuries always happen at the worst possible time. You have to feel sorry for the guy.
@nama1-188:
People forget that Jantjies played most of the test at Soccer City. He is therefore the incumbent Bok FH and deserves another crack. Kirchner will start so Lambie will be on the bench yet again.
While Morne Steyn will be sitting in the stands. Which is not a bad thing.
28 Oct 2012, 18:29 pm
@puff-184:
What FB in SA can win you a game like Beale or Dagg?
Kirchner had a solid season with the Boks when a lot of the other players were not putting their hands up.
The reason I did not mention Flo was because he only played in the last 4 tests. One as reserve.
OK, let’s add Jannie as well. That’s three Boks out of the nearly 40 that Meyer used.
Still means that Kirchner had a good international season with the Boks.
28 Oct 2012, 18:29 pm
@178 Nama1
I’m Jantjies biggest fan, but I know the South African public and they will crucify him if he doesn’t perform like Dan Cara!
Newer players into international level I feel should start off the bench. Lambie has been there longer and should start the 1st game.
The 2nd game they could swap them around.
Actually, who do we play in the 1st game? I know England is the last game…
28 Oct 2012, 18:32 pm
@Big Hit-142: I left Botha out for several reasons:
Forstly he isn’t the future. He’s still playing well but not amazingly so, and we need to start looking forward. Flip did fine against the Kiwis and Aussies and if he can do ok against them then the NH teams won’t show him up. Kruger too. Well see.
It’s time to move on from bakkies. That’s my opinion.
28 Oct 2012, 18:33 pm
@I am a stormer-192:
Exactly.
The ignorance is just astounding.
28 Oct 2012, 18:34 pm
@papaown-194:
Ireland
Scotland
England
28 Oct 2012, 18:35 pm
@phil72-191: Thank you for confirming you have 0 rugby insight with those bold predictions.
No reason to respond to any of your “comments” anymore. Let’s move on
28 Oct 2012, 18:38 pm
@papaown-198:
Can tell the so called experts that with 100% confidence…wait you will see.. it has been decided!
28 Oct 2012, 18:40 pm
@stormersboy-195: personally not really sure SA can afford to leave players of that quality out, but fair enough you’ve given your reasons
28 Oct 2012, 18:41 pm
@grant10-160: marcell is proving to be a one-trick pony…he’s not so hot anymore
28 Oct 2012, 18:41 pm
@nama1-197: In that case I’m fully behind starting Lambie against Ireland and then starting Jantjies against Scotland.
Steyn should mentor the young guns from the stands and training grounds.
I really DO NOT believe in playing players low on confidence in an effort to show faith in them. You CAN’T do that@International level. The Bulls didn’t even do that for Sadie so why should we as Bok fans suffer through this?
The players also suffer cos they can be booed by the spectators and that’s a horrible place to be in as they don’t select themselves!
28 Oct 2012, 18:44 pm
@Transformation-201: So what would your team be and your loose trio?
I still think Marcel has a lot to offer!
28 Oct 2012, 18:45 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-143: Quinn Roux is a great player and it’s sad to see him leave, but given Eben’s performances and preferred status I can understand it.
Are you sure that Quin was kept out of the squad due to injury?
I believe that it was Eben’s performances at the U20 World Cup that saw him get the nod ahead of Quinn, having watched Eben fairly closely the past 2 years, I remember the selections well.
28 Oct 2012, 18:47 pm
@nama1-188:
He has had one already.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Jantjies should be discarded.
I would still have him in the 22.
But I do think Lambie has had a raw deal.
And I don’t think his future for the Boks is at 15.
28 Oct 2012, 18:50 pm
@Big Hit-200: I would include Gurthro, not Bakkies. unless it’s obvious that we are not up to it, in which case “never say never”
28 Oct 2012, 18:50 pm
@papaown-190:
That is nonsense.
Mapoe has played just as much first-class rugby at wing as he has at 13 – if not more.
28 Oct 2012, 18:53 pm
@phil72-191: I have always had a feeling the oxymoron that is Spies is in fact Heyneke’s choice for Bok captain. Had the fairy shown ANY sort of form what so ever going into the English tests, he would have been given the captaincy right then. But due to his utterly kak S15, even the doff Meyer realised this would be insane…..so Plan B – temporary captaincy. (Had Schalk been fit, he might have been the stand in captain…)
Meyer told Spies: sign another 3 year contract with the Bulls…..make sure you play only 15% better than what you have been, and Bobsyourfuckinguncle and the Boks are your team to lead.
And when that happens (depends on Spies’s S15 form I guess….) the nation will weep, and NOTwithfuckingjoy I tell you. Spies is staying in Pta because Meyer told him to – the END.
And on this rock, I pledge: If that muscleboundmarshmallow EVER get’s to wear the captains armband and shame our nation, the Boks will be dead to me……kafuckingput – gone.
28 Oct 2012, 18:55 pm
@nama1-193:
Gio Aplon.
And I believe Jaco Taute is a game-breaker too.
Willie Le Roux needs some refinement, but he’s a potential prospect too.
And Frans Steyn and Patrick Lambie could both change a game from 15.
28 Oct 2012, 18:55 pm
@Transformation-201:
He never impressed me that much in that I think he just does the basic things that is required of him. He does it very well at times but he just does not offer you that something extra like a Flo, Fourie, Kolisi, Brussow.
That being said, I’ll start him with Flo and Vermeulen and bring Alberts on in the last 25-30 minutes.
28 Oct 2012, 18:58 pm
@papaown-203:chale…i don’t pick fantasy teams…at 6 marcel plays more like a 7, with bismarck off the likes of robshaw will have a “free lunch” on the deck kinda like province did yesterday. what did marcel do yesterday besides cluttering into robust defenders?
28 Oct 2012, 18:58 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-208:
Might as well start now… it has been decided!
28 Oct 2012, 18:59 pm
@puff-209:
Frans Steyn can only change a game with a long range penalty or drop.
Have you ever seen him winning a game from the FB position like a Beale or Dagg?
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-208:
“muscleboundmarshmallow”
28 Oct 2012, 19:02 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-208: LMAO @ “muscleboundmarshmallow”
28 Oct 2012, 19:04 pm
@phil72-212:
HM does not rate Britney Spoes as highly as you do.
He is staying Pretoria because the tannies love him.
28 Oct 2012, 19:07 pm
@puff-207: let’s answer this way, is Hougaard better suited to wing or scrummie, when on form?
28 Oct 2012, 19:07 pm
Fourie was the first option… does not want the job!
Burger also an option.. maar n bietjie dom?
Bekker was an option… enough said
De Villiers a good option… u bietjie oud!
Left us with 1 option planning for the future?
28 Oct 2012, 19:08 pm
@nama1-213:
Are you suggesting you’d rather see Zane Kirchner at 15 than Frans Steyn?
28 Oct 2012, 19:12 pm
@phil72-217:
HM rates Strauss and Bismarck in the Bok leadership stakes. Along with Jean and Schalk.
Your little Pierrie is slipping down the rankings.
Do I have to make it any clearer?
28 Oct 2012, 19:13 pm
@I am a stormer-215: I don’t think what Meyer says and what Meyer does are necessarily the same thing.
Meyer appointed Spies as Bulls captain and fearless leader with great fanfare at the end of 2011. If I recall correctly, Spies even said something at the time to the effect: “I knew in the back of mind I was going to get the captaincy as Heyneke and I blah blah blah blah”…..
Meyer’s love affair with the Spies started way back, and some of the adjectives he has used to describe Spies in the past – are so flattering, even a plastictart like Paris Hilton would call the praise ‘over the top’.
I doubt Spies would have negotiated his new contract with the Bulls, without speaking to Meyer.
Look, Spies is a good man, decent chap and a strong moral compass….and from the bench could be a great impact player. But I don’t want a moral compass packing down at 8….
If his form explodes, he will be the Bok captain I reckon ^#^&*((****&&&&& swearing. Poor Arno Botha
(a true potential Bok cappie)
28 Oct 2012, 19:14 pm
@I am a stormer-219:
Wait…. like i said… been decided?
28 Oct 2012, 19:21 pm
@Transformation-201: Marcell doesn’t attack space. Fourie showed him how a flank should play.
28 Oct 2012, 19:26 pm
dont understand why meyer overlooked bakkies. makes no sense. why?
lots of value lost there.
am happy with gurthro being in the squad and if he gets any game time expect him to wreak havoc on the opposition.
good to see rhule get his dues this early in his career and i hope they give him some game time.
arno well deserved too.
28 Oct 2012, 19:26 pm
@puff-218:
I’d rather not start with one of them.
As things stand now however, Kirchner is the incumbent FB and whatever we may think of him as a player, he did not let the team down in any of the 9 test matches that he played this year. There were other who did but I don’t see their names coming up as players to be dropped except that of Morne.
You tried to tell me that Frans can be this big match winner from the back ala Dagg or Beale. When has he ever shown that? Forget about his less than 20% success rate with long distance kicks.
28 Oct 2012, 19:28 pm
@I am a stormer-219: Hell I hope you are correct. Spies – Bok captain – the stuff of my nightmares I tell you.
@mikeybrass-222: Sharkies will attack me for saying this…..but their guppie of the year: Marcell, was more hindrance than help for them yesterday. I would have yanked him off VERY early…….and put Deysel on. Running around a lot and looking busy doesn’t an effective player make.
I like Coetzee, but he’s become a little lost.
28 Oct 2012, 19:28 pm
overall a touring squad picked on ability and form shown over the year.
should win every game.
no excuses.
28 Oct 2012, 19:29 pm
@phil72-221:
Just like 10 months ago when I told you that the Kings would play super rugby…. All laughing then….
Sometimes SA rugby, coaches, selectors etc. make decisions to plan to the future…. All I can suggest is keep your ears closer to the ground!
28 Oct 2012, 19:32 pm
@nama1-224: I’ve got zero issue with Zane at 15. If people were to be honest with themselves, there is not much bad one can say about his performances. Far kakker than Zane have been Hougaard, Steyn etc etc.
Nothing wrong with Zane, he’s safe as houses…..he ain’t no Dagg, but who the hell is.
28 Oct 2012, 19:34 pm
i can’t recall seeing arno botha blazing in any game…
28 Oct 2012, 19:35 pm
maybe he stood out in the U21s
28 Oct 2012, 19:37 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-228: free louis ludik…
#guppyrefrain
28 Oct 2012, 19:37 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-220:
The good news is that he is not in the Bok squad. So we can go to sleep with a smile on our face and a song in our heart two nights in a row.
He has obviously made a miraculous recovery from that broken finger.
Let him stick with the Bulls. And stay away from the Boks.
28 Oct 2012, 19:38 pm
i cant recall seeing the kings blazing in any game against credible opposition…
maybe they stood out in first division…
28 Oct 2012, 19:40 pm
@Transformation-229:
If you play in blue, you don’t have to.
28 Oct 2012, 19:41 pm
lwazi is lucky there are injury/depth issues or he would not have got the nod.
will warm benches in any case.
28 Oct 2012, 19:41 pm
@papaown-203: Like how not to pass, or how to run straight into a defender and get shoved back
Anyone can do that
28 Oct 2012, 19:42 pm
@Transformation-229: You need to pay your subs for DSTV so that they can switch you back on then you will see Botha
28 Oct 2012, 19:44 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-228: Kurtley Beale, Mike Brown and even Rob Kearny are way better than Zane to name a few
28 Oct 2012, 19:45 pm
@JL1-237:
Or watch the odd highlights on the SABC channels…..
28 Oct 2012, 19:45 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-225: OK who else?
28 Oct 2012, 19:47 pm
@phil72-239: WHAT??? SABC showing rugby, wonders never cease ….
28 Oct 2012, 19:50 pm
@nama1-224: You know Nama, Wynand Olivier never let the Boks down. Would I play him in my team, never
Speaking of Wynand Olivier, I reckon Keegan Daniels is the Wynand Olivier of forwards
28 Oct 2012, 19:51 pm
@JL1-238: All I’m saying is that Zane copped an unfair amount of criticism for not doing much wrong in the Rugby championship. He is NOT the future at 15, and he should be ousted after the S15 next year, when I am certain the contenders will have shone at the back….Taute, Ludik etc.
I can understand why Meyer has stuck with Zane for now – that’s all. He ain’t ever going to be brilliant, but there is no ways he is as woeful as what some are making out. Fair is fair.
Me, I want to see a Ludik or Taute kick butt the entire S15, making it simple for Meyer to find his attacking 15.
28 Oct 2012, 19:53 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-243: I have to concur, Zane is safe and solid end of…. but we need more than that at the back and you cannot tell me that there were not better options
28 Oct 2012, 19:59 pm
@JL1-241:
Net op die nuus….
28 Oct 2012, 20:03 pm
@phil72-245: Dis hardly highlights, 20 seconds en dan sien jy net ‘n ou wat oor die lyn duik of die skoppe pale toe. Dis mos maar hoe dit is, ES AY BEE CEE is mos staats TV
28 Oct 2012, 20:03 pm
@211 Transie
Abeg, put your neck on the line too sef and chose a side!
28 Oct 2012, 20:03 pm
@211 Transie
Abeg, put your neck on the line too sef and choose a side!
28 Oct 2012, 20:05 pm
@JL1-244: Meyer has been pretty boring and predictable with the majority of his selections thus far – as I knew he would be when he was appointed. I am not a fan, so please don’t think I am trying to justify all of Meyer’s cockups thus far. I’m just getting a little moeg of people picking on Zane, when he has by no means been the worst Bok on the park in ANY of the games he has started.
Zane’s taking a lot of the blame, when Meyer is in fact the conservative partystopper.
28 Oct 2012, 20:10 pm
@JL1-246:
But if transie really wanted to make the effort…. surely he could watch Arno play rugga somewhere…. even as a last resort maybe watch a game or 2 live?
28 Oct 2012, 20:17 pm
@JL1-242:
I can only deduce from his selections that Meyer identified Bissie, Bekker, Vermeulen, Morne and Kirchner as his spine around which he was going to build a team. That’s probably the reason why Kirchner gets selected every time.
People look at a guy like Dagg and ask, why don’t we have a FB who can counter attack like that? The answer is simple, because their structures and game plan allow him to play like that. Our structures and game plan does not cater for the FB to run with the ball from deep inside our territory. Now we blame the player in that position for our lack of attacking play from the back.
Let’s go to the root of the problem, our conservative playing style and fix the problem there.
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-243:
Well said.
Agree 100%
28 Oct 2012, 20:21 pm
I like the look of Botha. He’s better than Keegan IMO, so I’m fine with him being picked,
Who else at 8???
If Kanko were playing in SA he would most likely have gotten the nod ahead of him.
But he’s not
So he didn’t..
28 Oct 2012, 20:24 pm
Keo, when do we see the follow up article about the English poaching players from poorer countries? The one that laments SA picking Rhule and Beast?
28 Oct 2012, 20:27 pm
@nama1-251:
“because their structures and game plan allow him to play like that. Our structures and game plan does not cater for the FB to run with the ball from deep inside our territory.”
I agree, but I also belive Dagg is one of those rare players that comes around every 5/10+ years, he is like a give 7+ points each game he starts, he was the same with the highlanders, all round superior running/counter ability to any current 15 (def in Boks current setup). O’Conner was one who was close before his injuries and benching started. Both have a much quicker and more effective step than a Kirtchner or Lambie etc & Dagg has always oozed with Super confidence and an ability to challenge where others may not, he also has that perfect balance of speed and agility with a very strong kicking game..
28 Oct 2012, 20:34 pm
@nama1-213:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcx5QoFM4-Y – Francois Steyn has plenty ability, at test level it depends on how he is managed and instructed to play, in big tests he has clear orders.
Frans Stey is extremely physical in defnece and his absence along with JPP against kiwis was a big factor, that with a youg and inexperienced 10 pair.
28 Oct 2012, 20:35 pm
With a big 12 like FS surely there would be room for JD joung, Frans Stey and De joung there is a partnership I would like to see, Frans roubust big carries and off load ability with De Joung on his outside would be very interesting indeed IMO.
28 Oct 2012, 20:40 pm
nama: people speak of an attacking fullback yet in the sane breath mention a 119kg francois steyn who is nothing but a counter-attacking fullback
zane does the basics well that’s it. fellas must knock down the selection door & force meyer’s hand.
28 Oct 2012, 20:42 pm
Pity Jean Div is not out until next year. WP CC victory yesterday showed that no more need for has beens like Schalk and Jean. And why lord why Brits ahead of Deon Fourie?? The star from WP must be bitterly disappointed to lose out to the defector.
28 Oct 2012, 20:43 pm
kanko will come back and we’ll have to see if he can continue the streak he was on @ the end of super rugby then it will be good to see who comes up trumps – spies, arno, kanko, duane…
28 Oct 2012, 20:45 pm
@gonzo-253: did rhule even play rugby in ghana?
28 Oct 2012, 20:50 pm
@Guns-255:
“at test level it depends on how he is managed and instructed to play, in big tests he has clear orders.”
What make you think that Kirchner are not playing under “instructions” and “orders?”
Maybe his running 5m with the ball before giving an up and under is Meyer’s orders.
28 Oct 2012, 20:52 pm
Brits, Flits and the Girl With Big T*ts
Does not matter much whom gets selected. A fish rots from the head. The Bok squad rots from Muppet Messiah
Boks will win 1 (Scotland) out of 3 and the Muppet Messiah’s loss ratio will soar even higher
The devotees are getting what they deserve
28 Oct 2012, 20:53 pm
@Transformation-260: I don’t know what his background is but from what i understand he went to school in SA, so I have no problem with him turning out for the Boks. I just find it hypocritical for Keo’s underlings to write articles titled “Poms plundering Pacific Islands talent” and then ignore the origin of guys selected for the Boks
28 Oct 2012, 20:53 pm
@kwas-258:
Deon, brilliant player as he is, cannot throw a ball straight into the lineouts with any consistency. His future is at no 6 imo and he should push for bok selection in that position next year.
28 Oct 2012, 20:55 pm
Great to see Schalk Brits back in the team…maybe Heinecke is not as close minded after all.
28 Oct 2012, 20:58 pm
@nama1-261: Of course he is BUT I dont recall ever Kirchner showing then same ability as Dagg not at provincial or test level. He is more confrontational where as Dagg will draw u in then run circles around u like a tortoise left standing which is an ability he has had since birth.
28 Oct 2012, 20:59 pm
@Guns-256:
What impact did Frans had at 12 in the test matches that he played there this year?
@Transformation-257:
Jislaaik man, I just can’t understand it.
I guess if Frans gets selected at 15 and does not proceed to win matches from the back “like Beale or Dagg” then we’ll hear about the game plan and the coach not allowing him to express himself. Just like his groupies looked to blame Morne for his poor showings at 12 this year. Yet, last year JdV was lambasted despite Morne also playing kak on his inside.
You know I’m not Kirchner’s biggest fan and I know you are not as well but fair is fair man.
28 Oct 2012, 21:02 pm
@nama1-267:
Frans Steyn is a sentiment legend
Adequate test performances
Sentiment elevates it to legend quality
Maar nou ja nuh
28 Oct 2012, 21:05 pm
@nama1-267:
Bryce In Oz put together a fantastic post substantiated by stat and sound argument indicating Kirchner being the premier 15 in SA
Of course, we listen to k*k about kirchner being the obligatory 5th or is that 4th or uuuhm is that 3rd quota
28 Oct 2012, 21:06 pm
@gonzo: surely ONE player who happened to be born in ghana doesn’t amount to “plundering”?
#preciousmuch
28 Oct 2012, 21:07 pm
@Guns-266:
The only FB with that same kind of ability that you so aptly describe is prpebly Aplon with Willie le Roux not that far behind. He just lacks consistency but that will come with more experience.
Now, pray tell why our coach is not selecting one of them at FB if that is the kind of FB we need?
I’ll tell you why…because the coach does not believe in a counter attacking full back.
Don’t blame the player if he does not attack more from the back. blame the coach who does not see the reason for a full back with more attacking ability at this stage. The player is just following “instructions” and “orders.”
28 Oct 2012, 21:08 pm
@Transformation-257: before i get killed frans >>>> 110kg not 119..
28 Oct 2012, 21:11 pm
@nama1-267: A very big one defence as wellies breaking gain line, watch the first to of the Eng series and then the third when he was away, watch his tests REC 2011. Look at bok defence against anynkiwi match he starts then any he does not.
28 Oct 2012, 21:12 pm
@capetown-268: @capetown-269:
You know some people.
They won’t let facts stand in their way if they want to elevate a mediocre player to super stardom or devalue the worth that another player brings to the team.
28 Oct 2012, 21:12 pm
@nama1-267: ja but i was told jdv couldn’t complain about msteyn playing too deep cos FdP was there running the show while fransie has the often inconsistent pair of hougaard & ruan to deal with.
28 Oct 2012, 21:14 pm
all these rugby fundies telling me the reason Deon Fourie is not in the team is because he can’t throw a ball in at the line out.. I don’t buy it one little bit.. find a more convenient excuse that one doesn’t pass muster
28 Oct 2012, 21:14 pm
Very excited about Brits. He has been so instrumental in both the Premiership and Heineken Cup… Certainly not the traditional hooker, he sometimes look more like a back-line player and is FAST… Given that Bissie is out I do hope HM uses. He is also well accustomed to the English conditions which are unpleasant to say the least in November, lots of rain and soggy cold pitches.
Can’t complain about the larger squad, the real question is how dear HM will actually use the players…
28 Oct 2012, 21:21 pm
@Transformation-270:
You are silly trans sometimes.
What happens if he was only Ghanas best player. SA just took 100% of there good players/player….plundered.
Remember we get accused of scouting rugby players at the age of 2 years old.
28 Oct 2012, 21:23 pm
@Guns-273:
You’ll remember that people wanted him to play at inside center to “re-ignite” our impotent back line. He was hailed as the solution to get our back line going.
Our defense was not the biggest problem while he was away. JdV/JF did a good job on defense but it was on attack where they fell short. People believed that Fransie at 12 will solve that problem.
I put it to you that he did not. In fact, most of his fans on this site acknowledged that he did not when they started to blame Steyn for Fransie’s mediocre displays at 12.
28 Oct 2012, 21:27 pm
SA Rugby should invest in West Africa. So naturally big, fast and strong.
28 Oct 2012, 21:30 pm
@super_adi-280:
heaven knows the kings could do with a few.
28 Oct 2012, 21:32 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-281: And somehow use them to promote transformation!
28 Oct 2012, 21:33 pm
@nama1-279: Don’t quite see it like that but guess we all have our own opinion, and yes there was lots of hype around him playing at 12 and I see what ur saying. I’m just pointing out I have always noticed his strong defensive contribution to the backs.
28 Oct 2012, 21:36 pm
@Transformation-270: To be fair the only Pacific Plundering the Poms are doing is of Tuilagi and Vunipola (unless you count Hartley as NZ is after all part of the Pacific) so by that logic Beast and Rhule amount to Boks Burgle Bure
Apologies if my Afrikaans translation of Bure is wrong but i had serious trouble finding a synonym for neighbour starting with B
28 Oct 2012, 21:40 pm
@Guns-283:
I’ll give him credit for his strong defense and his long range kicks. It is when people start to hang Messiah-like status around his neck that I get uncomfortable.
After more than 50 test matches, he should have been established as a GREAT already, if he was that good…yet you still hear people saying that he has the POTENTIAL to end up as a great.
I mean, really now!!! After more than 50 test matches?
28 Oct 2012, 21:47 pm
@super_adi-282:
ja, win win.
in the words of bob marley: ‘africa unite’.
28 Oct 2012, 21:48 pm
@gonzo-284: lots of zimbabweans & zambians like skinstad, teichman etc played for the boks…
@Hurricane-278: you reckon Aus plundered Zimbabwe when they played pocock?
#ridiculouskeewee
28 Oct 2012, 21:51 pm
@gonzo-284:
the truth is the poms have in fact burgled far more sa talent over the years than pi’s.
now the whole of britain/uk is getting in on the act.
its open season for sa talent.
28 Oct 2012, 21:52 pm
I cannot remember a single try scored by any Bok wing where Fransie as FB joined the back line, drew his man and sent the wing away to score a try without a defender close to him. Compare that to the tries scored by people like Howlett, Rockokoko and other AB wings when Muliaina joined the back line or nowadays when Dagg joins the back line. It inevitably leads to one of the wings or another supporting player running through unopposed on most occasions.
Seeing Fransie as the solution for a more attacking full back is just plain dom.
28 Oct 2012, 21:52 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-286: moenie worry nie the cream will come through…kolisi is not a once off…
did you see scarra yesterday pestering the guppys – yes he is from eQonce & went to Dale.
EP on the rise
28 Oct 2012, 21:54 pm
@nama1-289: lmga ” Seeing Fransie as the solution for a more attacking full back is just plain dom.”
28 Oct 2012, 21:58 pm
@Transformation-290:
we hope so.
scarra was busy yesterday, good for him. even dr. du plessis had to ‘give him an examination’ at one stage in order to treat his hyperactivity.
28 Oct 2012, 21:59 pm
Francois Steyn is average. Nothing more – nothing less. In a word…………adequate.
28 Oct 2012, 22:02 pm
Match officials for the BOK EOYT.
Hondo, take note.
10 Nov
17:30
Ireland v South Africa
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Wayne Barnes (ref)
Steve Walsh (AR)
Stuart Terheege (AR)
Giulio De Santis (TMO)
17 Nov
14:30
Scotland v South Africa
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
George Clancy (REF)
John Lacey (AR)
Christophe Berdos (AR)
Eric Gauzins (TMO)
24 Nov
14:30
England v South Africa
Twickenham, London
Nigel Owens (REF)
Glen Jackson (AR)
Peter Fitzgibbon (AR)
Jim Yuille (TMO)
28 Oct 2012, 22:07 pm
@W.P-293:
You speak da truth.
28 Oct 2012, 22:09 pm
@nama1-294: cue hondo with conspiracy theories & claims of wins
28 Oct 2012, 22:10 pm
@nama1-289:
Agree.
And I am also not one for giving players super status, but things also a problem aggravated by the media.
Yes he has allot of test caps and is he a great of course not, but he’s only 25 and has been thrown from wing to center to fullback and back to center another typical south African “coaching/selection” issue.
Did I expect miracles from him at 12? No that’s silly he has not been established there long enough, is he the problem for the backline being pup? No don’t buy that either., it’s a collective team effort, the issues of the bok backline where affected byMbyMornatee Steyn at 10 and the game plan surely u would not deny this? Do you not recall Frans play and then backline general the minute Goosen came on they were definitely more effective as was Frans Steyn. The question isnthe game plan, the 10 and the 13, that’s what would query JDV and FS should contend 12. Well that’s my opinion we all have our own.
28 Oct 2012, 22:16 pm
@Transformation-287:
haha
Trans, dont worry just having a laugh.
Seems you have Mr Serious face on today.
#StupidSethAfrecan
28 Oct 2012, 22:21 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-288:
Strange dont you think.
ONly a couple of years ago you all laughed at us kiwis as we wont be able to hold our players due to the fact NZRU is not the richest club around.
We were also told that SA can keep there players as SARU has alot of money
In fact a SA poster only 2 weeks ago was saying the SARU has as much of not more money than AIG……phhhht.
What has happened?
Or are you talking about cricket and not rugby?
28 Oct 2012, 22:28 pm
@nama1-294: I like Clancy a lot, pitty we getting him for the Scotland game.
Not a fan of Owens and Barnes is alright although loves the sound of his own voice…
28 Oct 2012, 22:34 pm
@Hurricane-299:
both.
poms especially but now it seems the rest of uk is getting in on the act.
the problem for us is keeping guys interested once they know they are not in the springbok frame. it seems once the gys with enough talent to make an english or irish side but perhaps just not enough, or at least are up against others with the same amount of talent, to make the springbok side, then they bail for the pounds because there is little left to draw them in.
28 Oct 2012, 22:59 pm
journos still hounding heyneke over lambie
http://m.news24.com/sport24/Rugby/Springboks/Lambie-still-to-get-splinters-20121028
28 Oct 2012, 23:15 pm
Am I the only one who doesnt really rate Chilliboy??
The guy keeps throwing skew lineouts to the opposition.
Schalk Brits is by faaaaar the better option in my opinion.
29 Oct 2012, 00:50 am
@Kaizan-303:
And so is Fourie. Way better than Chiliboy
29 Oct 2012, 01:15 am
What happened to Frans Steyn?
29 Oct 2012, 01:33 am
frans – ankle surgery
29 Oct 2012, 01:36 am
1. beast
2. strauss
3. JDP
4. eben
5. kruger
6. flo
7. alberts
8. duane
9. pienaar
10. lambie
11. mvovo
12. JDV
13. JDJ
14. JPP
15. taute
16. brits
17. gurthro
18. flip
19. cotzee
20. hougaard
21. janjies
22. zane
29 Oct 2012, 03:49 am
Bresler should be picked ahead of Kruger and Flip. He is tough as nails, athletic and very, very streetwise. He and Eben would rule the world, Just Like Vic and Bakkies did.
29 Oct 2012, 04:41 am
@Transformation-272:
Hehehe looked like 119kg after his stint in Europe…
29 Oct 2012, 06:43 am
@Transformation-260: Chale, why you won make mahala now? Rhule grew up a Saffa and it shows in his rugby, just with a bit more spice
29 Oct 2012, 07:41 am
Captain of this ship is the bastarrd child of supercilious visionaries!! He wreaks of injustice and the foul stench of a power drunk, absent-minded punK.
Skop put it plainly when he suggested a team is only as good as its coach.
I imagine sometimes if we swapped coaching staff with Aus/ Nzl or even Wales…
Even the great SBW needed a lil coaching and managing, a result prevalent in his ability to do more than just offload in a tackle.
Any capable coach would do wonders with the talent HM has @ his disposal but that’s probably part of the problem. He’s steering this wretched boat holding a compass perpetually fixed toward the Northern Transvaal and no fan on this blog, or any other dickk wielding site is gonna tell him which way to go!!
29 Oct 2012, 08:20 am
So quick to dismiss MSteyn but seriously, where’s his coaching.
I remember a time Nonu didn’t & couldn’t pass a ball for shiit, or how ordinary Kurtly Beale used to be @ fb or fh? How bout Sam whitelocks (average for an AB) all round play?
Only a handful have ever shown a vast improvement because of coaching offshore!!…Monty, same goes for Flouw, Brits, Mujati.
What the damn hell do our coaches get paid for?? Where are these structures that help build on SA strengths, if we have any.
This rot is the plot and it starts higher up top than HM.
29 Oct 2012, 09:15 am
This squad will skop gat, even without the likes of F Steyn, Habana, Bissy, Goosen and Bekker. Very happy to see Mapoe and Brits there – hope they get enough time to show their worth.
29 Oct 2012, 09:20 am
“Obviously losing so many players to injury, the latest being Coenie, Tiaan, Andries, Jacques and Bryan during the Currie Cup, makes it difficult, but this now provides opportunities for other players.”
boks should not be playing currie cup, they should be resting ahead of Euro tour. no need for all those injuries.
29 Oct 2012, 10:55 am
It doesn’t matter who HM chooses, his gameplan is not affective at all.
The squad is atleast too string for a Strauli EOYT nightmare repeat!
I jus can’t see the Boks progressing under HM, they look so mediocre since he took over!!
30 Oct 2012, 11:24 am
@fishdish-311: @race of tan-315: Agree. Heyneke Meyer is a clown with no business coaching the Boks. It would be bad enough if he actually had decent assistant coaches to limit some of the damage he’ll do, but we don’t even have that consolation.
The best thing he ever did was bring in Todd Louden for the Bulls. Without competent support he’s got absolutely nothing as his coaching career has shown in South Africa nearly getting fired by the Bulls before Louden and at Leicster where they couldn’t get rid of him quickly enough.
10 Nov 2012, 13:21 pm
15 Jaco Taute, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 J De Jong, 12 Jean de Villiers, 11 Mvovo, 10 Pat Lambie, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 Duane Vermuelen, 7 Willem Alberts, 6 Francois Louw, 5 , Franco van der Merwe, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Adriaan Strauss, 1 Beast Mtawarira.
16 Schalk Brits, 17 CJ van der Linde, 18 Pat Cilliers, 19 Flip van der Merwe, 20 Marcell Coetzee, 21 Elton Jantjies, 22 Lionel Mapoe, 23 Francois Hougaard
Would be such a better team!
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