Kirchner’s days numbered
31 Oct 2012
Heyneke Meyer has indicated that Jaco Taute’s Springbok future lies at fullback, casting doubt over Zane Kirchner’s Test longevity.
Kirchner has been a consistent target of criticism for his perceived attacking limitations, but Meyer has retained faith in the fullback, regularly defending his selection.
However, Meyer, speaking in Cape Town ahead of their year-end tour, revealed that Taute, who was deployed at outside centre after Frans Steyn was ruled out of the Rugby Championship through injury, is his long term preference. Taute, who recently confirmed a loan move from the Lions to the Stormers where he is likely to be the first-choice No 15 in 2013, has also stressed that he feels he is best suited to fullback.
Taute ticks all the boxes in the position: he is defensively sound, has a strong kicking game, good positional sense, is secure under high kicks, is sharp in his reading of the defensive alignment when fielding kicks deep in his half (i.e successfully deciding when to counter-attack and when to punt for field position), runs good angles and has good timing when joining the line on attack and has the speed and physicality to break tackles. At 21, he is also a player Meyer can invest in with confidence of a significant return.
‘I believe Taute’s best position is 15 and I would have liked to see him at 15 in these [November] Tests. He can offer us something different there,’ Meyer told keo.co.za. ‘But now with us being thin on midfield cover he may have to continue to play at 13. That said, I see his future at 15 and I’ve communicated that to him.’
The other hot debate is which one of Morne Steyn or Pat Lambie should start at flyhalf for the tour. Steyn was dropped for the home leg of the Rugby Championship following a number of poor performances. However, with Johan Goosen injured and Elton Jantjies still deemed too raw to start in the northern hemisphere, it is a choice between Steyn and Lambie.
Meyer and his coaching team have constantly hinted that Steyn is their man in light of the conditions they are expected to encounter, but the coach has warmed to Lambie as an option following a string of strong performances in the position for the Sharks.
‘I don’t believe you should try too many things at Test level, that is for Super Rugby. But I’ve also said I wanted to use the tour to see one or two different combinations. I’ve always been honest with Patrick and said that if he wants to be a Test 10 he has to improve his tactical kicking game and he has definitely worked hard on it,’ Meyer said.
‘You need a tactical 10 in Test rugby. Dan Carter, for example, was excellent in turning us in Soweto and that’s the type of kicking game we’ll need. Pat has the potential to be a great flyhalf. After this year I want to stick with two flyhalves that I’ll take through to the World Cup.’
With injuries forcing his hand Meyer has selected a number of young players during his tenure thus far. Raymond Rhule was a surprise inclusion in the squad, but had shown great promise throughout the Currie Cup. With a host of more experienced wingers ahead of him, he isn’t expected to play. Meyer virtually confirmed this, but explained that he had seen too many players who had excelled in the Currie Cup rushed into Test rugby never to play again, and didn’t want to repeat those errors.
He intimated that young Rhule was selected to familiarise himself with the team ethos and game plan, with a view to gradually introducing him to Test rugby.
‘Look at my career. I’ve never thrown a young player to the wolves,’ he said. ‘Raymond Rhule is an exciting talent but I need time to establish how prepared he is for Test rugby, particularly as far as his mental toughness is concerned. He needs to train with the squad and be educated on the game plan. He is a player with huge talent and I think he can be there at the next World Cup. But it is important to manage young players properly.
‘There are a lot of youngsters in the squad and I’m excited to see how they respond to the challenge of touring. The biggest thing about the tour is that the World Cup will be in England in 2015 and will be played in the conditions we’ll experience there now. I’ll have a clearer idea of who has the mental and technical abilities I’m looking for after this tour.’
By Ryan Vrede, in Cape Town
102 Comments
31 Oct 2012, 17:56 pm
If Taute consistently outshines Kirchner in that position – then brilliant
31 Oct 2012, 18:01 pm
Good call,Taute is far superior in all depts
31 Oct 2012, 18:26 pm
So,JdJ can just,right now,accept that he will not start.Taute will never replace JdJ at 13 for the Stormers,but he is good enough for the Boks.And then this plonker wants all provinces to play one style!!Bollocks!
31 Oct 2012, 18:26 pm
At test rugby level he has proved a spectacular failure – Frans Steyn should fill this position because we then get access to that freak monster, matchwinning genius boot of his, which is wasted at inside centre – Jacques Fourie brought back to outside centre, JdV to inside and take it from there. Taute had his chances and blew it royally – though, in fairness, what mastermind played him in a test against the All Blacks out of position? Lost us the game …
31 Oct 2012, 18:42 pm
“Elton Jantjies still deemed too raw to start in the northern hemisphere” i call bull ****
if goosen was fit he would start, but jantjies isnt good enough to start..
by the way i only count one inside centre option in the squad, that being JDV
rhule, JP, JDJ, tuate all outside centre options
31 Oct 2012, 18:46 pm
@4 J.B. Cowper……totally agree with everything in that post. Frans at fb is the correct move
31 Oct 2012, 18:46 pm
@J.B. Cowper-4: HM is flip flopping like a fish out of water, in this article he mentions his never thrown a young player in against the wolves but he did exactly that with taute, playing a fullback at center against the all blacks. He has totally cheapened the springbok jersey by selecting players such as J Potgeiter, Greyling and englebrecht even picking goosen only after playing 30 min for the cheetas after a long injury lay off.
31 Oct 2012, 18:48 pm
HM is flip-flopping a la Mitt Romney
31 Oct 2012, 19:03 pm
@numba4lock-5: Lambie lol, he’s a option at 12
31 Oct 2012, 19:05 pm
@J.B. Cowper-4: 13 is a specialist position when it comes to defence…. Wasn’t Taute’s fault Meyer blindsided him, when should have played Juan de Jongh in the 1st place.
Taute will never be a 13 and we don’t need him at 13….we have Juan fit, in form and rearing to go. Meyer must just use him FFS.
31 Oct 2012, 19:06 pm
well he did flop in midfield.
31 Oct 2012, 19:17 pm
Frustrating it is, but there is just no other captain of the calibre of JdV. Bissie would be my choice as soon as he gets back. Him or Schalla.
31 Oct 2012, 19:20 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-11: I believe that if Mr Nienaber were involved with the Boks as a ‘D’ consultant, he would have told Mr Meyer that playing Taute at 13 would be risky as hell.
31 Oct 2012, 19:28 pm
I’ve said it before, the only reason JdJ is in the bok squad is to make up the black numbers. In fact if Keegan Daniel was a shade darker he’d be there as well. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mapoe gets the nod ahead of him if Taute flops, again, against Ireland.
31 Oct 2012, 19:32 pm
He cant seriously not start De Jongh. Meyer thats daft. Play De Jongh at 13, Taute at 15 and Kirchner on the bench if need be!
31 Oct 2012, 19:32 pm
@mxhosa-14:
Amampondo, I am not sure if you are stating that is your opinion, or you are summarising HM’s opinion. I feel JdJ is the then next Mannetjies Roux in green and gold.
31 Oct 2012, 19:52 pm
@Jinx2-16:
No, it’s just my opinion, but it’s based on what’s happened so far. Unfortunately I never got see Roux play, nor do I care to.
31 Oct 2012, 19:57 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-13:
yes well, he’s clearly come round to that by the sound of things.
31 Oct 2012, 19:59 pm
Cant take anything Meyer says seriously. A proven liar already and the most boring, cliched guy around. I’m already heartily sick of him. Bok rugby needed to regroup after two very lean years not get stuck in this plonkers exaggerated learning process.
31 Oct 2012, 20:11 pm
Juan de Jongh has got to start. No doubt about that.
However.
I see JDJ as the playmaker in the Bok backline. And therefore needs to be as close to the action as possible. That is why I would play him at 12. And shift JDV to 13 where he can be a link with the wing and FB. Not the other way around.
We need to bring back creativity to the Bok backline.
31 Oct 2012, 20:12 pm
shutup
31 Oct 2012, 20:23 pm
@mxhosa-17:
spoken like a gentleman
31 Oct 2012, 20:43 pm
The boks are in for a proper humbling in november, a draw against the argies, a loss against a limping aussie team, have not won a single away game this year. And our boys are at the end of the longest season of their lives. Meyer aside, not optimistic
31 Oct 2012, 21:41 pm
do as you please heyneke, we trust in you implicitly
31 Oct 2012, 21:46 pm
I see we are talking Juan de Jongh up. Well he did score a match turning try and in a game that most Province supporters will remember for the rest of their lives. The first win in an era is always a special one. He also deserves to be first choice centre for the Boks.
BUT
He is not a player you build your team around. He scored his try with the same step he always had. A step that will not work in test rugby. His playmaking skills in setting other players up is non existant. He never steps to get his hands through the tackle to set someone away or other players never runs angles from him.
That player is Jan Serfontein. And we will build our team around him for years to come.
31 Oct 2012, 21:48 pm
Its been years since I posted here….
World cup ? gimme a break, so sick of hearing the same BS, all the SA coaches invest so much in the 4 year plan that they lose sight of the importance of winning the next test match.
Unfortunately rugby will always be flawed as long as there is one man with a whistle deciding the outcome.
31 Oct 2012, 22:04 pm
@Horings-25: i’m a sharkie, i think Jordaan is a promising player, but i’ve always thought and still do think that De Jong is the most talented of any center in the country, including inside centers.
31 Oct 2012, 22:06 pm
@Boogeyman-26: In most articles I read about Meyer he states the importance in winning the next test. You should have short term plans as well as long term plans. Just because he mentions the long term plan every now and then does not mean he only focuses on this long term plan.
31 Oct 2012, 22:07 pm
@BokkeYouBeauties-27: barring Frans (injured) and Jaque(Japan) before i get my kop chopped off, shud have said available center
31 Oct 2012, 22:07 pm
jeez this oke makes some worrying statements – thin on the ground at centre, is he completely barking mad – why dont you pick a bladdy centre for starters – de jong should have been playing the last 2 years already, he is by far the best and most exciting centre in south africa, far better than jdv, and probably even better than frans steyn who is v good.
as for telling us about what a great kicking flyhalf dan carter is, try telling that to the kiwis, they cant stand kickchase nonsense -pick some bladdy players that actually take it to the oppo and cause them problems, whats this bullshit defensive ****, between jdv and taute, our defense was positive porous, and both morne and lambie are prone to missing big tackles too.
de jong is not only a better attacker, but he’s actually a better defender too, frans steyn a solid tackler but he’s not there, taute is the next best, but he’s not a centre.
31 Oct 2012, 22:11 pm
serfontein could be a bok bolter, but you have the best bok centre in SA right now, he is of test standard, serfontein needs at least 1 year of super rugby, de jong is by far the most incisive scything centre SA has, and he is not even being picked, instead meyer has picked a rookie fullback ahead of him, this actually smacks of racism, so how do we even know that he’s not capable of replicating exactly what he does at super rugby level?
31 Oct 2012, 22:12 pm
@BokkeYouBeauties-27: IDe Jong was great when he came on the scene, but I think his game has not progressed. He is in form now, but he played his best rugby in 2010 (In his first super rugby season). From then he is doing the same things and international standard teams have worked him out.
His lack of progress is a real worry. I have the same worries with Francois Venter, Jan Serfontein, William Small Smith and Dries Swanepoel at the Bulls. All 4 these guys has the potential to be Boks, but if the Bulls do not develop them not one of them will be a Bok for more than 20 tests.
It seems Jordaan is coming through nicely, although he is very injury prone.
31 Oct 2012, 22:15 pm
@cab-31: Ja, he should show he is good enough at super rugby level. Many players (ex Hilton Lobberts) have shown to be great at Junior international level, but useless one level up.
31 Oct 2012, 22:18 pm
the best tackling backs in SA are frans, hougaard, de jong and kirchener.
the most attacking backs in SA are de jong, jp, hougaard, goosen and frans.
So the first names down in the backline – hougaard, de jong, frans, jp and goosen if fit. these are currently worldclass players.
These are currenly the worldclass players in SA:
Beast, Bismarck, Etsbeth, Alberts, Deon Fourie, Hougaard, Goosen, Frans, De Jong, JP.
If Bakkies and Gurthro were picked for the EOY tour with Fourie, i reckon it woulda been 3 from 3, but he’s done pretty well with CJ and Gurthro so maybe the boks will win 1 or 2.
31 Oct 2012, 22:20 pm
@Horings-33:
thats v true, lobberts looked phenomenal at u19 level – dunno what happened there – maybe a bit lazy also.
31 Oct 2012, 22:20 pm
Where is the article about the arrogant and condescending WP players throwing R50 notes at the crowds?
Who the fark do they think they are?
31 Oct 2012, 22:25 pm
1. Beast 2. Brits 3. Cilliers 4. Bakkies 5. Etsebeth 6. Flo 7. Alberts 8. Vermeulen 9. Hougaard 10. Lambie (long way off Goosen) 11. Rhule (gooi him in) 12. De Jong (and encourage him to let-rip) 13. JdV 14. JP 15. Taute
16. Gurthro 17. Rallapelle 18. CJ 19. Kruger 20. Coetzee 21. Pienaar 22. Kirchener.
Dan gaan die ierse hulself bekak.
31 Oct 2012, 22:58 pm
Thank goodness that HM is prefers Taute to the Niknaks man! Taute will provide that attacking impetus that we’ve lacked at 15 for so long. Its also time for JdV to be shown the door and go earn some retirement money in Europe. I wouldn’t play him anywhere in midfield. He has been lacking the ability to create space for his outside players. Steyn at 12 and JdJ at 13 will be an awesome midfield combo
31 Oct 2012, 23:40 pm
I like that he wants to keep people informed but it seems Meyer talks too much about guys who haven’t proven themselves. Goosen already has so much pressure on him to be the starting fly half in 2015 but he’s started and finished, what, one test? Now Taute is a Bok full back but he won’t get a start in that position until next year but who knows if he’ll be fit or in form. Tell the guys what you’re thinking but no need to heap public pressure on inexperienced guys. Test them out first before talking them up
31 Oct 2012, 23:43 pm
@gonzo-39:
Well said. He is a glass blower.
31 Oct 2012, 23:50 pm
Ireland is on the decline, not sure why but the hiding they received recently from the ABs was not coincidental
They smacked the Boks 3 years ago good and hard, it won’t happened now unless Jantjies, Mvovo, De Jongh and Chiliboi will all feature in the line up
31 Oct 2012, 23:57 pm
^^^^^^^^^^Do not forget Morne Steyn and Zane Kirchner
1 Nov 2012, 00:13 am
@Horings-28: “In most articles I read about Meyer he states the importance in winning the next test.” Ja, well he sucks at that. He has won only 44.4 percent of his Tests as Bok coach. That is piss poor. Since 1996, only Carel du Plessis has finished with a worse record than that.
1 Nov 2012, 01:15 am
Taute at 15 and his future is in pretoria. I believe he will move after next season.
Arno Botha – Meyer special project. Next big thing but best suited to 7 IMO
1 Nov 2012, 04:28 am
Besides Habana, Kirchner was possibly SA’s best back in the RC (low bar, but still).
Regardless, for Meyer’s territorial based gameplan, the biggest boot of them all should be at the back, Frans Steyn. Trouble for Meyer is, he is also SA’s best 12.
1 Nov 2012, 06:03 am
Frans Steyn to FB. Not making an impact at centre at all.
1 Nov 2012, 06:11 am
‘You need a tactical 10 in Test rugby. Dan Carter, for example, was excellent in turning us in Soweto and that’s the type of kicking game we’ll need. Pat has the potential to be a great flyhalf. After this year I want to stick with two flyhalves that I’ll take through to the World Cup.’
I wonder how Lambie’s tactical kicking compares to MSs….?
Considering that MS is still in the mix, even though HM has Jantjies and Lambie to choose from, the two flyhalves he’ll probably stick with will be MS and Goosen…
If MS wasnt in the picture SA rugby can pick any of the top 3 flyhalves and the boks backs will be in good hands… Goosen, Lambie, Jantjies. All of them deserve a decent chance to compete for the number 1&2 spot… This obsession with MS needs to end…
1 Nov 2012, 06:12 am
@greatest13gerber-44: Hopefully this is a sign that Spies’ days are numbered too…
1 Nov 2012, 06:14 am
@W.P-46:
Lets wait and see what he has to offer next year with Lambie on his inside and Jordaan at his outside… Have a look at his club rugby highlights… He has a lot to offer and isnt just some bash it up player… But if your flyhalf is deep in the pocket you dont have much options…
1 Nov 2012, 06:49 am
@Liewe Luiperd-36:
When I was a child and we used to catch the train to Joburg. The kids would rush to the train as it stopped outside Hutchinson. They begged for money and toys every time. Many, many people on the trains responded in kind. Poverty creates many spontaneous reactions of kindness, not always the most politically correct, but most often well intended. The real issue is the need to beg, and for that I blame an utterly uncaring and corrupt government.
1 Nov 2012, 07:12 am
I’m still trying to work out how Lambie had to work on his tactical kicking when he spent his time on the bench. Besides, tactical kicking isn’t something that you an practice by yourself as it depends on reading the game and opposition. It’s not so much how you kick, but when and where you kick.
1 Nov 2012, 07:14 am
@Jinx2-50:
hey bud…
“Cape Town – WP Rugby has apologised after players threw R50 notes to fans who’d assembled to congratulate the team on their Currie Cup victory parade through Cape Town on Tuesday.
As the money was thrown from the bus, fans jostled to get their hands on the cash. There were no reported injuries.
According to Wednesday’s Cape Argus newspaper, radio callers and presenters voiced a range of opinions on the matter, with some saying it was in poor taste and patronising, while others saw nothing wrong with it.
WP Rugby Union president Thelo Wakefield apologised for the incident, explaining that upon stopping in Khayelitsha on the third leg of the parade, part of the crowd had appealed to players on the bus for money suggesting they were hungry.
Wakefield said: “It was maybe a little naive of the players involved, but their intentions were good. There was certainly no negative intention, only positive. If it was perceived in any other way, we apologise.”
1 Nov 2012, 07:28 am
I am surprise that Meyer is focusing so much on the world cup suddenly
1 Nov 2012, 07:49 am
has a strong kicking game
Really?
1 Nov 2012, 08:09 am
Meyer’s full of shi t man talking about we’re thin on 13 so we should continue with Taute@13.
The way he’s treated JdJ is actually disgraceful and he should rather leave him@home like Keagan Daniels if he has no faith him.
Window dressing at its best
1 Nov 2012, 08:15 am
@sparticus-53:
Is Meyers contract through to the World Cup?
Gert Smal is lying in wait in Dublin and knows exactly how to neutralise a Meyer/Bulls 22.
Meyers comments are naive to say the least and speaks in a litany of cliches.
Count them or write them down and this reflects his paralysed thinking. It is mind numbing and yelling at the walkie talkie like he was in crisis shows he has little grasp on events.
Ahem.
Rassie Erasmus? WTF is he? The champion of new technology and analysis is conspicuous by his silence?
I guess he is waiting Meyers two year coaching stint to reflect a poor win record and take over in 2014 to prepare for a humdinger RWC in 2015 in England.
1 Nov 2012, 08:18 am
Meyer talks the talk, unfortunately he is not walking it. Talk is cheap HM!
We want results as you promised before the first game. 40% winning ratio is not what you spoke about… Easy to talk, but not as easy to perform…
Mallet is waiting… the sooner the better for all…
1 Nov 2012, 08:27 am
@Gordon Gekko-56: What are you smoking , the Bulls will be lucky if they have more than 3 players starting in test team ( Mainly WP and Sharkies), we have all moved on time for you as well.
1 Nov 2012, 08:32 am
@Horings-25: While I applaud your appreciation for young Serfontein, that is NOT what we are discussing here!
Despite the flaws you see in JdJ’s game he is 100 times the centre Taute could ever hope to be. And in fact, he’s not even hoping to be that.
So explain away your rationaLe for starting Taute ahead of JdJ, after a mare againts NZ@13?
1 Nov 2012, 08:37 am
@Gordon Gekko-56: True Rassie has been quiet of late.
1 Nov 2012, 08:53 am
@Gordon Gekko-56:
@Sasuke-60:
you are both so far out of the loop you should be ashamed of yourselves for posting before thinking.
rassie official job title as informed to us in a press release, and which i assume he still holds, is ‘General Manager: High Performance Teams’ and which is a desk/office job which he fulfills back at saru hq. he is furthermore also seconded to the springboks when they are in camp.
the period in which you wingnuts saw a visible rassie sitting next to meyer in the coaches box during a game was of course the england series. this was simply because rassie was, by agreement, seconded to assist heyneke meyer with the coaching and other duties because as of that time the various ‘assistant coaching staff team members’ to the coach had not been appointed yet by saru and negotiations were still ongoing as to the candidates and various other contract issues and so forth.
rassie helped out during that period and then went back to his official job.
1 Nov 2012, 09:27 am
I would pay good money to see these two partnering at centre for a couple of games:
12. JdJ
13. JPP
I rate Frans probably the best 12 on the planet but hellsteeth the above combo would be lightning…
Put them outside Lambie and pad them with Habana, Rhule or Mvovo on the outside and served by Pienaar at scrummie and the Boks will have the makings of an exciting backline…
Backstop would be Frans, Ludik or Taute with Frans providing further options at 12…
1 Nov 2012, 09:53 am
@Heavens Game-62: too many blecks…
1 Nov 2012, 10:01 am
@Horings-25: Way too early to count that lighty as a future team corner stone, sorry it just is too early.
1 Nov 2012, 10:26 am
It appears as though Heyneke doesn’t think too highly of the english South Africans
1 Nov 2012, 10:33 am
Take what you want from this but why are black/coloured players in most cased perceived as slower developers as their counterparts?
J. Goosen was deemed ready for Tests yet he has less experience than Jantjies.
J. Potgiether/M. Coetzee was deemed ready for Tests yet Kolisi was seen as too inexperienced when he was bashing all comers this year.
Frans Steyn was playing Tests at 19 years old, wouldn’t it be easier for a young potentially world class winger (Rhule, 19) to get a taste of International Rugby, even if it’s just a cameo in 1 game on Tour.
Only talented player of colour fast tracked to Boks was Habana as far as I can remember.
But that’s just my view of course.
1 Nov 2012, 10:36 am
@wpstormerbok-66: Vermeulen was fast tracked as well , that was about the only speed we saw in his 5 tests
1 Nov 2012, 10:41 am
best current backline would be hougaard, lambie, habana, steyn, devilliers, jp, taute. best combination for 2015 RWC could well be hougaard, lambie/goosen, rhule, steyn, jordaan, jp, taute.
both of these combinations offer the potential to play more complete rugby than Heyneke is currently delivering, but without needing to depart completely from our traditional strength base. what is clear to me, is that it’s time for pienaar, steyn and kirchner not to be starting, and for us to do more with our possession than just kick and chase.
1 Nov 2012, 10:43 am
@Charging Rhino-65: Souties got no place in Meyer’s supremacist back to the future traditional power plans of marching to Pretoria supremacy it seems…
May start to get this shadenfreude feeling if and when Boks may lose on the EOYT…
1 Nov 2012, 10:49 am
@capebull-67:
Ja not the most fleet footed guy around but much better than the imposter who was parading as a International 8th man for 3 years.
Vermullet will do the job in Europe but yes we need to find a baller who can do the hard yards as well at 8 for the Boks again.
Kankowski looked good this year if we remove our biased view of judging him on previous seasons.
1 Nov 2012, 10:49 am
@wpstormerbok-66:
Chilliboy, Hilton Lobberts, JPP.
When Habana was called into the bok squad, a guy called in on Superrugby…. “Arnie, miskien moet Ettiene Botha (RIP) sy naam verander naa Botile, daan saal hy in die springbok spaan wees”.
1 Nov 2012, 10:50 am
If Meyer can pick his favourites unencumbered by what he probably views as quotas or not favouring one franchise, his backs would probably look something like this:
15 Zane/Taute
14 Habana/JJ Engelbrecht
13. JdV/Taute
12. JdV/Steyn
11. Hougaard
10. Morne
9. FdP
I reckon he should come play this fascist backline of boere supremacy against honest HG’s choice:
15. Aplon/Ludik
14. Rhule
13. JPP
12. JdJ
11. Mvovo
10. Lambie/Jantjies
9. Pienaar
Wanna bet which backline will score more tries or defend better?
1 Nov 2012, 10:54 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-61:
You think a press release cements anything? It is a line of thinking that SARU want you to believe.
Where is Rassie as the techno boffin to craft Heyneke’s koppestamp BlouKoeie moer hulle strategy.
Meyers thinking is deurmekaar and his press statements puts out a message that he thinks the SA fans want to hear.
His approach is so 2000 but I will compliment him on getting a lekker haircut before a conference so he can look sharp.
1 Nov 2012, 11:04 am
The World Cup draw is being done in December. If we fuckupbadly on this tour, we are setting ourselves up for a possible world of pain come 2015.
1 Nov 2012, 11:29 am
@Heavens Game-69: Yep it appears that way.
Pat will show up Morne in the tactical kicking game any day of the week…. Morne “kick it straight to the wing/fullback” Steyn when nobody’s gonna chase the kick…. Not like Carter or Lambie (or even Butch James in his hey day) who use their heads and kick it into space and understand how to read the game. Fourie Du Preez understands this too though….
And Meyer’s already talking about the World Cup!? We’re in 2012 and the WC is in 2015! Win some games on this EOYT and in 2013 first! Quite a few folk didn’t like Jake White but at least he cleaned up and won stuff in his first year of 2004.
1 Nov 2012, 11:43 am
What’s with this horses for courses cr*p, based on NH conditions. I thought HM said that he doesn’t just select players, he coaches them. Either he can put a squad together that can handle all conditions or he can’t.
1 Nov 2012, 11:59 am
@mxhosa-71:
Out of those 3 only JPP was there on talent alone, H. Lobberts only has 2 caps and I’m sure one of those was in an South Africa A touring side.
Chilliboy, although a huge talent, was used to keep the transformation wolves pleased at the time. This set his development back but he’s kept on keeping on so good on him.
So again, young players of colour of exceptional talent find it harder to break through than white players.
S. Burger and J. Fourie only played 1 Currie Cup season before they become Boks, same with JdV I think.
It’s not wrong, I just want to see the same faith being put in all players regardless of their race.
1 Nov 2012, 12:51 pm
Man HM is showing Strauli type characteristics. I still reckon HMs days are numbered. He has not shown any way forward for the Boks and now he is starting to tread on peoples toes!!!
JDV/JDJ should have been the centres after F Steyn was injured, they are a tried and tested combo at superrugby level!! And possibly try Taute at Fullback, although Kirhcner was having a good run of form.
And the flyhalf mess was another brain ****, Lambie should have been next inline to M Steyn not a just back from injury Goosen, who is now injured again!!!
For me HM is very dissapointing, similar to Robbie Deans, great a Superrugby not so great at national level.
1 Nov 2012, 12:55 pm
@Gordon Gekko-73:
ag nee man, jy is n verlore saak.
1 Nov 2012, 13:05 pm
Cab #37 – I quite like your team!! JDV/JDJ makes all the sense in the world, scary that HM didn’t/doesn’t see that!!
And as someone else mentioned the centre combo then going forward should be F Steyn/JDJ! A flairy anchor and a flairy speedster similar to the ABs!!
But it seems to me that HM is going the klompie route with the Boks, no flair what soever, except Habs who is in fine form!!
1 Nov 2012, 13:45 pm
Meyer on Taute: “But now with us being thin on midfield cover he may have to continue to play at 13.”
So, no JDJ then. Thought so.
“However, with Johan Goosen injured and Elton Jantjies still deemed too raw to start in the northern hemisphere, it is a choice between Steyn and Lambie.”
If Goosen was not injured, would he have been regarded as “too raw to start in the northern hemisphere?”
Somehow I don’t think so. Come up with better excuses than kak like this.
PS: I know this is the view of the “journalist.”
1 Nov 2012, 14:13 pm
@capebull-58:
WP have only four players in the squad… the Bulls 8, I think. It seems as if at least one of WP player, JdJ, will not start.
That will leave JdV, Etzebeth and Vermeulen to start.
Bulls have Zane, Hougaard, Morne, Kruger in the starting line up
4 Bulls vs 3 WP.
Altyd goed om ‘n oom op die regte plekke te ken.
1 Nov 2012, 14:21 pm
Wrong fullback to focus on. The worst possible thing that happened to the Sharks in the Currie Cup final was Habana getting injured and Joe Pietersen coming on. Pietersen played the best fullback game that any South African fullback has played in any game – all year long.
Right now – at this very moment, Joe Pietersen would be my man.
But Heyneke remains f$%king clueless. I see he has gone to Marco Wentzel as lock backup. Anton Bresler has played superlative rugby all year long. His final was not great, but he destroyed the Bulls and has played generally well all year.
Proves that Heyneke makes decisions reactively. You can see that from the number of Springbok jerseys he has handed out since he started.
1 Nov 2012, 14:25 pm
@nama1-81: Flippin idiot. Nothing has changed since the p!ss poor performance in the Tri-Nations.
1 Nov 2012, 14:34 pm
We are going to see our backsides against Ireland. Heyneke ‘dead man walking’ Meyer.
1 Nov 2012, 14:57 pm
@Dusky-84: @Dusky-85:
That he is and I also agree with re the result against Ireland.
They’ll beat us if they can even remotely reproduce the kind of game they played in the 2nd test against the All Blacks.
1 Nov 2012, 15:37 pm
@wpstormerbok-70: I know they will start with Vermeulen , i just hope they give Arno a chance. Wp has lead the way with playing younsters , look at Eben , Kolisi, Kisthoff ect. Bulls are a bit slack in this. Arno has all the potential to carry the ball and not fade from rough stuff. He was RFU 0/20 player of the year when he captained , Eben , Gous , Kolisi , Carr.
1 Nov 2012, 15:42 pm
@nama1-82: Not so sure you are right I have ,
Kruger and Chikko , Hougie on bench with Lambie at 10, we all know that when Taute matures he could take over , but he made 2 horrible mistakes in cc anf RC.
But to say the team is blue no , rather black and white
1 Nov 2012, 15:45 pm
@nama1-86: No…… we have Vermeulen , the Rock from Cape Town.
He does not move any where on the field.
1 Nov 2012, 15:54 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-79:
Moenie poep hoer as jou poephol nie!
1 Nov 2012, 16:07 pm
@capebull-88:
Well, I’m willing to make a bet that the Bulls will have more players starting in the test than WP.
Yes, the majority will be Sharkies.
My guess is the team will not differ much from this:
15. Zane
14. JPP
13 Taute
12. JdV
11. Hougaard
10. Morne
9. Pienaar
8. Vermeulen
7. Alberts
6. Flo
5. Kruger
4. Etzebeth
3. Jannie
2. Strauss
1. Beast
Reserves
Chilliboy
Gurthrow
Cillier
Flip
Coetzee
Elton
JdJ
Lambie
Lambie
1 Nov 2012, 18:11 pm
@wpstormerbok-77:
Let’s see, all three made their debuts in 2006 aged 19, Chilliboy and Lobberts had starred in the baby boks’ WC campaigns for 2 years (winning one and losing the other to France in France). Sure Chilliboy was used as a political tool. And just because Lobberts never quite replicated that kinda form in the pros does not mean they was they were any less talented. For you to suggest that only JJP (a 6ft3 black fullback turned winger) was the only there on talent alone, is wrong…
Any youngster that is picked for a national team in his teens, is picked based on his talent and potential. Others, realise that potential very early, ala F Steyn, Schalk et al. While others like Lobberts and Meyer Bosman, wilt under all that pressure and expectation and become pit part provincial players.
1 Nov 2012, 18:12 pm
@nama1-91:
:-
A good idea to pick Chiliboi and Steenkamp on the Mid Week team
Remember the 2009 EOYT against Leichester?
1 Nov 2012, 21:02 pm
I think what HM is trying to say is that we should all shut the f… up while he picks his undeserving buddies. Rhule and Lambie to carry tackle bags.
1 Nov 2012, 22:37 pm
meyer you idiot! Jdj is a 12 and 13 option! In 2010′s super rugby he was the 12 and fourie the 13 jou dom d##s!
1 Nov 2012, 22:47 pm
@Gumboots-57: FFS gumboots – have you not seen a drastic improvement in at least our forward play this year – from rookies to putting the settled AB pack under pressure? And have you not seen our defence improve slowly? I have.
Did you not notice how, for the first time in a while, we smashed Australia DECISIVELY? How are you not seeing the improvement?
The only thing missing in our arsenal is still decisive attacking play from our backs. But I think that aspect was put a distant third on the priority list, because without the first two, you cannot have the third. That will come in time too. I would have loved to see Carlos Spencer as consultant to the Boks for backline play.
2 Nov 2012, 05:43 am
big bullshitter this dude
kak coach with an ideology to suit
this oke got no intention of ever being a realist
he’s stuck in a time warp I dunno if he gonna ever get out
2 Nov 2012, 08:30 am
@nama1-91: Nama , so we should acuse Meyer of being a Sharkie then.
2 Nov 2012, 08:31 am
@skopdiekan-97: @Bell-95: Stop being so negative
2 Nov 2012, 11:35 am
everyone on this site calling JDJ the best centre in the country suddenly is absolutely ludicrous
if anyone watched the stormers in the S15, it was clear as day how poor he was all season- bar one game against the rebels
yes, he is extremely talented, but he scored one match turning try in a CC game ffs!!!
hes very solid on defence, and can step like a maori but he cant pass for hsit
whats the point playing centre if you cant pass??
personally id still start him ahead of JDV any day of the week
2 Nov 2012, 14:58 pm
Dear HM
I have a problem & perhaps you can help me. Why do you have to use Taute in the midfield? There is no shortge of good centres in SA who are better suited in that position.
Confused!
3 Nov 2012, 07:50 am
Since frequenting this keo world I have realised once again the world is a scary place.
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