Kirchner’s days numbered
31 Oct 2012
Heyneke Meyer has indicated that Jaco Taute’s Springbok future lies at fullback, casting doubt over Zane Kirchner’s Test longevity.
Kirchner has been a consistent target of criticism for his perceived attacking limitations, but Meyer has retained faith in the fullback, regularly defending his selection.
However, Meyer, speaking in Cape Town ahead of their year-end tour, revealed that Taute, who was deployed at outside centre after Frans Steyn was ruled out of the Rugby Championship through injury, is his long term preference. Taute, who recently confirmed a loan move from the Lions to the Stormers where he is likely to be the first-choice No 15 in 2013, has also stressed that he feels he is best suited to fullback.
Taute ticks all the boxes in the position: he is defensively sound, has a strong kicking game, good positional sense, is secure under high kicks, is sharp in his reading of the defensive alignment when fielding kicks deep in his half (i.e successfully deciding when to counter-attack and when to punt for field position), runs good angles and has good timing when joining the line on attack and has the speed and physicality to break tackles. At 21, he is also a player Meyer can invest in with confidence of a significant return.
‘I believe Taute’s best position is 15 and I would have liked to see him at 15 in these [November] Tests. He can offer us something different there,’ Meyer told keo.co.za. ‘But now with us being thin on midfield cover he may have to continue to play at 13. That said, I see his future at 15 and I’ve communicated that to him.’
The other hot debate is which one of Morne Steyn or Pat Lambie should start at flyhalf for the tour. Steyn was dropped for the home leg of the Rugby Championship following a number of poor performances. However, with Johan Goosen injured and Elton Jantjies still deemed too raw to start in the northern hemisphere, it is a choice between Steyn and Lambie.
Meyer and his coaching team have constantly hinted that Steyn is their man in light of the conditions they are expected to encounter, but the coach has warmed to Lambie as an option following a string of strong performances in the position for the Sharks.
‘I don’t believe you should try too many things at Test level, that is for Super Rugby. But I’ve also said I wanted to use the tour to see one or two different combinations. I’ve always been honest with Patrick and said that if he wants to be a Test 10 he has to improve his tactical kicking game and he has definitely worked hard on it,’ Meyer said.
‘You need a tactical 10 in Test rugby. Dan Carter, for example, was excellent in turning us in Soweto and that’s the type of kicking game we’ll need. Pat has the potential to be a great flyhalf. After this year I want to stick with two flyhalves that I’ll take through to the World Cup.’
With injuries forcing his hand Meyer has selected a number of young players during his tenure thus far. Raymond Rhule was a surprise inclusion in the squad, but had shown great promise throughout the Currie Cup. With a host of more experienced wingers ahead of him, he isn’t expected to play. Meyer virtually confirmed this, but explained that he had seen too many players who had excelled in the Currie Cup rushed into Test rugby never to play again, and didn’t want to repeat those errors.
He intimated that young Rhule was selected to familiarise himself with the team ethos and game plan, with a view to gradually introducing him to Test rugby.
‘Look at my career. I’ve never thrown a young player to the wolves,’ he said. ‘Raymond Rhule is an exciting talent but I need time to establish how prepared he is for Test rugby, particularly as far as his mental toughness is concerned. He needs to train with the squad and be educated on the game plan. He is a player with huge talent and I think he can be there at the next World Cup. But it is important to manage young players properly.
‘There are a lot of youngsters in the squad and I’m excited to see how they respond to the challenge of touring. The biggest thing about the tour is that the World Cup will be in England in 2015 and will be played in the conditions we’ll experience there now. I’ll have a clearer idea of who has the mental and technical abilities I’m looking for after this tour.’
By Ryan Vrede, in Cape Town
102 Comments
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1 Nov 2012, 07:12 am
I’m still trying to work out how Lambie had to work on his tactical kicking when he spent his time on the bench. Besides, tactical kicking isn’t something that you an practice by yourself as it depends on reading the game and opposition. It’s not so much how you kick, but when and where you kick.
1 Nov 2012, 07:14 am
@Jinx2-50:
hey bud…
“Cape Town – WP Rugby has apologised after players threw R50 notes to fans who’d assembled to congratulate the team on their Currie Cup victory parade through Cape Town on Tuesday.
As the money was thrown from the bus, fans jostled to get their hands on the cash. There were no reported injuries.
According to Wednesday’s Cape Argus newspaper, radio callers and presenters voiced a range of opinions on the matter, with some saying it was in poor taste and patronising, while others saw nothing wrong with it.
WP Rugby Union president Thelo Wakefield apologised for the incident, explaining that upon stopping in Khayelitsha on the third leg of the parade, part of the crowd had appealed to players on the bus for money suggesting they were hungry.
Wakefield said: “It was maybe a little naive of the players involved, but their intentions were good. There was certainly no negative intention, only positive. If it was perceived in any other way, we apologise.”
1 Nov 2012, 07:28 am
I am surprise that Meyer is focusing so much on the world cup suddenly
1 Nov 2012, 07:49 am
has a strong kicking game
Really?
1 Nov 2012, 08:09 am
Meyer’s full of shi t man talking about we’re thin on 13 so we should continue with Taute@13.
The way he’s treated JdJ is actually disgraceful and he should rather leave him@home like Keagan Daniels if he has no faith him.
Window dressing at its best
1 Nov 2012, 08:15 am
@sparticus-53:
Is Meyers contract through to the World Cup?
Gert Smal is lying in wait in Dublin and knows exactly how to neutralise a Meyer/Bulls 22.
Meyers comments are naive to say the least and speaks in a litany of cliches.
Count them or write them down and this reflects his paralysed thinking. It is mind numbing and yelling at the walkie talkie like he was in crisis shows he has little grasp on events.
Ahem.
Rassie Erasmus? WTF is he? The champion of new technology and analysis is conspicuous by his silence?
I guess he is waiting Meyers two year coaching stint to reflect a poor win record and take over in 2014 to prepare for a humdinger RWC in 2015 in England.
1 Nov 2012, 08:18 am
Meyer talks the talk, unfortunately he is not walking it. Talk is cheap HM!
We want results as you promised before the first game. 40% winning ratio is not what you spoke about… Easy to talk, but not as easy to perform…
Mallet is waiting… the sooner the better for all…
1 Nov 2012, 08:27 am
@Gordon Gekko-56: What are you smoking , the Bulls will be lucky if they have more than 3 players starting in test team ( Mainly WP and Sharkies), we have all moved on time for you as well.
1 Nov 2012, 08:32 am
@Horings-25: While I applaud your appreciation for young Serfontein, that is NOT what we are discussing here!
Despite the flaws you see in JdJ’s game he is 100 times the centre Taute could ever hope to be. And in fact, he’s not even hoping to be that.
So explain away your rationaLe for starting Taute ahead of JdJ, after a mare againts NZ@13?
1 Nov 2012, 08:37 am
@Gordon Gekko-56: True Rassie has been quiet of late.
1 Nov 2012, 08:53 am
@Gordon Gekko-56:
@Sasuke-60:
you are both so far out of the loop you should be ashamed of yourselves for posting before thinking.
rassie official job title as informed to us in a press release, and which i assume he still holds, is ‘General Manager: High Performance Teams’ and which is a desk/office job which he fulfills back at saru hq. he is furthermore also seconded to the springboks when they are in camp.
the period in which you wingnuts saw a visible rassie sitting next to meyer in the coaches box during a game was of course the england series. this was simply because rassie was, by agreement, seconded to assist heyneke meyer with the coaching and other duties because as of that time the various ‘assistant coaching staff team members’ to the coach had not been appointed yet by saru and negotiations were still ongoing as to the candidates and various other contract issues and so forth.
rassie helped out during that period and then went back to his official job.
1 Nov 2012, 09:27 am
I would pay good money to see these two partnering at centre for a couple of games:
12. JdJ
13. JPP
I rate Frans probably the best 12 on the planet but hellsteeth the above combo would be lightning…
Put them outside Lambie and pad them with Habana, Rhule or Mvovo on the outside and served by Pienaar at scrummie and the Boks will have the makings of an exciting backline…
Backstop would be Frans, Ludik or Taute with Frans providing further options at 12…
1 Nov 2012, 09:53 am
@Heavens Game-62: too many blecks…
1 Nov 2012, 10:01 am
@Horings-25: Way too early to count that lighty as a future team corner stone, sorry it just is too early.
1 Nov 2012, 10:26 am
It appears as though Heyneke doesn’t think too highly of the english South Africans
1 Nov 2012, 10:33 am
Take what you want from this but why are black/coloured players in most cased perceived as slower developers as their counterparts?
J. Goosen was deemed ready for Tests yet he has less experience than Jantjies.
J. Potgiether/M. Coetzee was deemed ready for Tests yet Kolisi was seen as too inexperienced when he was bashing all comers this year.
Frans Steyn was playing Tests at 19 years old, wouldn’t it be easier for a young potentially world class winger (Rhule, 19) to get a taste of International Rugby, even if it’s just a cameo in 1 game on Tour.
Only talented player of colour fast tracked to Boks was Habana as far as I can remember.
But that’s just my view of course.
1 Nov 2012, 10:36 am
@wpstormerbok-66: Vermeulen was fast tracked as well , that was about the only speed we saw in his 5 tests
1 Nov 2012, 10:41 am
best current backline would be hougaard, lambie, habana, steyn, devilliers, jp, taute. best combination for 2015 RWC could well be hougaard, lambie/goosen, rhule, steyn, jordaan, jp, taute.
both of these combinations offer the potential to play more complete rugby than Heyneke is currently delivering, but without needing to depart completely from our traditional strength base. what is clear to me, is that it’s time for pienaar, steyn and kirchner not to be starting, and for us to do more with our possession than just kick and chase.
1 Nov 2012, 10:43 am
@Charging Rhino-65: Souties got no place in Meyer’s supremacist back to the future traditional power plans of marching to Pretoria supremacy it seems…
May start to get this shadenfreude feeling if and when Boks may lose on the EOYT…
1 Nov 2012, 10:49 am
@capebull-67:
Ja not the most fleet footed guy around but much better than the imposter who was parading as a International 8th man for 3 years.
Vermullet will do the job in Europe but yes we need to find a baller who can do the hard yards as well at 8 for the Boks again.
Kankowski looked good this year if we remove our biased view of judging him on previous seasons.
1 Nov 2012, 10:49 am
@wpstormerbok-66:
Chilliboy, Hilton Lobberts, JPP.
When Habana was called into the bok squad, a guy called in on Superrugby…. “Arnie, miskien moet Ettiene Botha (RIP) sy naam verander naa Botile, daan saal hy in die springbok spaan wees”.
1 Nov 2012, 10:50 am
If Meyer can pick his favourites unencumbered by what he probably views as quotas or not favouring one franchise, his backs would probably look something like this:
15 Zane/Taute
14 Habana/JJ Engelbrecht
13. JdV/Taute
12. JdV/Steyn
11. Hougaard
10. Morne
9. FdP
I reckon he should come play this fascist backline of boere supremacy against honest HG’s choice:
15. Aplon/Ludik
14. Rhule
13. JPP
12. JdJ
11. Mvovo
10. Lambie/Jantjies
9. Pienaar
Wanna bet which backline will score more tries or defend better?
1 Nov 2012, 10:54 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-61:
You think a press release cements anything? It is a line of thinking that SARU want you to believe.
Where is Rassie as the techno boffin to craft Heyneke’s koppestamp BlouKoeie moer hulle strategy.
Meyers thinking is deurmekaar and his press statements puts out a message that he thinks the SA fans want to hear.
His approach is so 2000 but I will compliment him on getting a lekker haircut before a conference so he can look sharp.
1 Nov 2012, 11:04 am
The World Cup draw is being done in December. If we fuckupbadly on this tour, we are setting ourselves up for a possible world of pain come 2015.
1 Nov 2012, 11:29 am
@Heavens Game-69: Yep it appears that way.
Pat will show up Morne in the tactical kicking game any day of the week…. Morne “kick it straight to the wing/fullback” Steyn when nobody’s gonna chase the kick…. Not like Carter or Lambie (or even Butch James in his hey day) who use their heads and kick it into space and understand how to read the game. Fourie Du Preez understands this too though….
And Meyer’s already talking about the World Cup!? We’re in 2012 and the WC is in 2015! Win some games on this EOYT and in 2013 first! Quite a few folk didn’t like Jake White but at least he cleaned up and won stuff in his first year of 2004.
1 Nov 2012, 11:43 am
What’s with this horses for courses cr*p, based on NH conditions. I thought HM said that he doesn’t just select players, he coaches them. Either he can put a squad together that can handle all conditions or he can’t.
1 Nov 2012, 11:59 am
@mxhosa-71:
Out of those 3 only JPP was there on talent alone, H. Lobberts only has 2 caps and I’m sure one of those was in an South Africa A touring side.
Chilliboy, although a huge talent, was used to keep the transformation wolves pleased at the time. This set his development back but he’s kept on keeping on so good on him.
So again, young players of colour of exceptional talent find it harder to break through than white players.
S. Burger and J. Fourie only played 1 Currie Cup season before they become Boks, same with JdV I think.
It’s not wrong, I just want to see the same faith being put in all players regardless of their race.
1 Nov 2012, 12:51 pm
Man HM is showing Strauli type characteristics. I still reckon HMs days are numbered. He has not shown any way forward for the Boks and now he is starting to tread on peoples toes!!!
JDV/JDJ should have been the centres after F Steyn was injured, they are a tried and tested combo at superrugby level!! And possibly try Taute at Fullback, although Kirhcner was having a good run of form.
And the flyhalf mess was another brain ****, Lambie should have been next inline to M Steyn not a just back from injury Goosen, who is now injured again!!!
For me HM is very dissapointing, similar to Robbie Deans, great a Superrugby not so great at national level.
1 Nov 2012, 12:55 pm
@Gordon Gekko-73:
ag nee man, jy is n verlore saak.
1 Nov 2012, 13:05 pm
Cab #37 – I quite like your team!! JDV/JDJ makes all the sense in the world, scary that HM didn’t/doesn’t see that!!
And as someone else mentioned the centre combo then going forward should be F Steyn/JDJ! A flairy anchor and a flairy speedster similar to the ABs!!
But it seems to me that HM is going the klompie route with the Boks, no flair what soever, except Habs who is in fine form!!
1 Nov 2012, 13:45 pm
Meyer on Taute: “But now with us being thin on midfield cover he may have to continue to play at 13.”
So, no JDJ then. Thought so.
“However, with Johan Goosen injured and Elton Jantjies still deemed too raw to start in the northern hemisphere, it is a choice between Steyn and Lambie.”
If Goosen was not injured, would he have been regarded as “too raw to start in the northern hemisphere?”
Somehow I don’t think so. Come up with better excuses than kak like this.
PS: I know this is the view of the “journalist.”
1 Nov 2012, 14:13 pm
@capebull-58:
WP have only four players in the squad… the Bulls 8, I think. It seems as if at least one of WP player, JdJ, will not start.
That will leave JdV, Etzebeth and Vermeulen to start.
Bulls have Zane, Hougaard, Morne, Kruger in the starting line up
4 Bulls vs 3 WP.
Altyd goed om ‘n oom op die regte plekke te ken.
1 Nov 2012, 14:21 pm
Wrong fullback to focus on. The worst possible thing that happened to the Sharks in the Currie Cup final was Habana getting injured and Joe Pietersen coming on. Pietersen played the best fullback game that any South African fullback has played in any game – all year long.
Right now – at this very moment, Joe Pietersen would be my man.
But Heyneke remains f$%king clueless. I see he has gone to Marco Wentzel as lock backup. Anton Bresler has played superlative rugby all year long. His final was not great, but he destroyed the Bulls and has played generally well all year.
Proves that Heyneke makes decisions reactively. You can see that from the number of Springbok jerseys he has handed out since he started.
1 Nov 2012, 14:25 pm
@nama1-81: Flippin idiot. Nothing has changed since the p!ss poor performance in the Tri-Nations.
1 Nov 2012, 14:34 pm
We are going to see our backsides against Ireland. Heyneke ‘dead man walking’ Meyer.
1 Nov 2012, 14:57 pm
@Dusky-84: @Dusky-85:
That he is and I also agree with re the result against Ireland.
They’ll beat us if they can even remotely reproduce the kind of game they played in the 2nd test against the All Blacks.
1 Nov 2012, 15:37 pm
@wpstormerbok-70: I know they will start with Vermeulen , i just hope they give Arno a chance. Wp has lead the way with playing younsters , look at Eben , Kolisi, Kisthoff ect. Bulls are a bit slack in this. Arno has all the potential to carry the ball and not fade from rough stuff. He was RFU 0/20 player of the year when he captained , Eben , Gous , Kolisi , Carr.
1 Nov 2012, 15:42 pm
@nama1-82: Not so sure you are right I have ,
Kruger and Chikko , Hougie on bench with Lambie at 10, we all know that when Taute matures he could take over , but he made 2 horrible mistakes in cc anf RC.
But to say the team is blue no , rather black and white
1 Nov 2012, 15:45 pm
@nama1-86: No…… we have Vermeulen , the Rock from Cape Town.
He does not move any where on the field.
1 Nov 2012, 15:54 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-79:
Moenie poep hoer as jou poephol nie!
1 Nov 2012, 16:07 pm
@capebull-88:
Well, I’m willing to make a bet that the Bulls will have more players starting in the test than WP.
Yes, the majority will be Sharkies.
My guess is the team will not differ much from this:
15. Zane
14. JPP
13 Taute
12. JdV
11. Hougaard
10. Morne
9. Pienaar
8. Vermeulen
7. Alberts
6. Flo
5. Kruger
4. Etzebeth
3. Jannie
2. Strauss
1. Beast
Reserves
Chilliboy
Gurthrow
Cillier
Flip
Coetzee
Elton
JdJ
Lambie
Lambie
1 Nov 2012, 18:11 pm
@wpstormerbok-77:
Let’s see, all three made their debuts in 2006 aged 19, Chilliboy and Lobberts had starred in the baby boks’ WC campaigns for 2 years (winning one and losing the other to France in France). Sure Chilliboy was used as a political tool. And just because Lobberts never quite replicated that kinda form in the pros does not mean they was they were any less talented. For you to suggest that only JJP (a 6ft3 black fullback turned winger) was the only there on talent alone, is wrong…
Any youngster that is picked for a national team in his teens, is picked based on his talent and potential. Others, realise that potential very early, ala F Steyn, Schalk et al. While others like Lobberts and Meyer Bosman, wilt under all that pressure and expectation and become pit part provincial players.
1 Nov 2012, 18:12 pm
@nama1-91:
:-
A good idea to pick Chiliboi and Steenkamp on the Mid Week team
Remember the 2009 EOYT against Leichester?
1 Nov 2012, 21:02 pm
I think what HM is trying to say is that we should all shut the f… up while he picks his undeserving buddies. Rhule and Lambie to carry tackle bags.
1 Nov 2012, 22:37 pm
meyer you idiot! Jdj is a 12 and 13 option! In 2010′s super rugby he was the 12 and fourie the 13 jou dom d##s!
1 Nov 2012, 22:47 pm
@Gumboots-57: FFS gumboots – have you not seen a drastic improvement in at least our forward play this year – from rookies to putting the settled AB pack under pressure? And have you not seen our defence improve slowly? I have.
Did you not notice how, for the first time in a while, we smashed Australia DECISIVELY? How are you not seeing the improvement?
The only thing missing in our arsenal is still decisive attacking play from our backs. But I think that aspect was put a distant third on the priority list, because without the first two, you cannot have the third. That will come in time too. I would have loved to see Carlos Spencer as consultant to the Boks for backline play.
2 Nov 2012, 05:43 am
big bullshitter this dude
kak coach with an ideology to suit
this oke got no intention of ever being a realist
he’s stuck in a time warp I dunno if he gonna ever get out
2 Nov 2012, 08:30 am
@nama1-91: Nama , so we should acuse Meyer of being a Sharkie then.
2 Nov 2012, 08:31 am
@skopdiekan-97: @Bell-95: Stop being so negative
2 Nov 2012, 11:35 am
everyone on this site calling JDJ the best centre in the country suddenly is absolutely ludicrous
if anyone watched the stormers in the S15, it was clear as day how poor he was all season- bar one game against the rebels
yes, he is extremely talented, but he scored one match turning try in a CC game ffs!!!
hes very solid on defence, and can step like a maori but he cant pass for hsit
whats the point playing centre if you cant pass??
personally id still start him ahead of JDV any day of the week
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