Saru hopes for new dawn
1 Nov 2012
The South African Rugby Union says it has committed to a transformation plan that will for once properly measure its success and failure on this issue.
The governing body held a two-day transformation indaba in Johannesburg, which concluded with Saru president Oregan Hoskins and representatives of each of the 14 member unions signing a declaration.
‘We have had visions and charters in the past, with good intentions, and progress has been made,’ Hoskins said. ‘But what distinguishes this one is the commitment to properly measure ourselves on our progress.’
The key performance areas will be access, skill and capability development, demographics, performance, and alignment to national policy and governance.
No details of the plan have been released yet (they will first discuss an implementation plan), but Hoskins explained that they would strive to go beyond previously unsuccessful attempts at transformation.
‘As the sports minister [Fikile Mbalula] said, transformation is not about the “vulgar” simplification of numbers in the Springbok team,’ Hoskins said. ‘It is about a whole range of opportunities being created in a number of different areas to continue to transform rugby at all levels and in all corners of our activity.’
Saru chief executive Jurie Roux said the indaba and declaration were part of an extensive strategy to finalise the transformation implementation plan. He also said it confirmed that Saru would adopt deliberate transformation initiatives in order to ensure equal opportunities existed for all South Africans.
‘We have had a group working on this process for several months,’ Roux said. ‘In April we presented the outline to the Parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Sport and since then we have workshopped the draft plan with provinces on an individual basis.
‘This indaba is the culmination of that process and from this we will finalise the implementation plan.’
Saru hopes the strategic transformation plan will increase the number of blacks involved at all levels of the game and ensure rugby was accessible to all who wished to participate. There will also be a focus on improving skills and performance in identified coaches, referees, administrators and players. It stressed that in accordance with transformation plan, Saru members would focus on quality and merit to deliver world-class performances on the field of play.
324 Comments
1 Nov 2012, 08:16 am
whats wrong with the old dawn?
1 Nov 2012, 08:23 am
kak r(h)ule S
1 Nov 2012, 08:35 am
Dawn going for a makeover?
Pity they didn’t have a vision on how kak HM is and got him a charter plane outta here.
Lets not talk about them Kings…
1 Nov 2012, 08:41 am
Gonna be one of THOSE threads
1 Nov 2012, 08:50 am
@Dawn-4: ag, don’t get your swirlkous in a knot
1 Nov 2012, 08:55 am
The Boks went to townships here in PE …. they gave a few rugby balls to students and also gave training … the next day the kids played soccer with the rugby balls …. Its like trying to get Pavarotti fans to become fans of Lady Gaga ,,,
1 Nov 2012, 08:56 am
@Dawn-4:
a thread ALL about you..?..
cant say there’s been many of them.
1 Nov 2012, 08:57 am
@suffer_guy-6: Like the WP okes throwing money at the fans.
They end up buying Saders jerseys with the money.
1 Nov 2012, 08:58 am
lol!!
1 Nov 2012, 09:00 am
@trupisero-8:
1 Nov 2012, 09:12 am
Better headline from a number of perspectives:
DAWN HOPES FOR NEW SARU.
1 Nov 2012, 09:14 am
I notice you Saffers are absolutely awful organisers and administrators. What is the reason for this??
1 Nov 2012, 09:22 am
@Delki-12: Colonialism.
1 Nov 2012, 09:26 am
The quota system was invented by NZ Rugby Union after 1995 — its the only way NZ can beat the Boks …
1 Nov 2012, 09:26 am
@Delki-12:
Can we get back to you on this?
1 Nov 2012, 09:34 am
@suffer_guy-14:
huh?
1 Nov 2012, 09:35 am
@trupisero-13:
lol
1 Nov 2012, 09:36 am
So what you having done, Dawn? Botox? Lipo? Tuck?
This is exciting.
1 Nov 2012, 09:45 am
@Delki-12: Want ons is n klomp etters……happy?
1 Nov 2012, 09:46 am
@katman-18: New, improved and tooit like a tooiger.
1 Nov 2012, 09:47 am
Nobody does an indaba like we do.
We are world indaba champions.
Free t-shirts, caps and pens.
And plenty of catering.
All rounded off with a succinct 4,376 page report that nobody will ever read.
1 Nov 2012, 09:49 am
Any kid who can play soccer with a rugby ball has serious talent.
1 Nov 2012, 09:57 am
@gunther-21:
what’s that saying about ‘a conference room full of m.onkeys banging away at a keyboard long enough will produce the complete work of p. divvies book’..?..
@gunther-22:
get them into the nearest rugby centre of excelence pronto.
1 Nov 2012, 09:59 am
@gunther-21: Apparently the Joef Liegue spent a million Rand on berets for some Che Guevara styled conference recently. Nothing more ridiculous than a fat sub-sahara-african trainee dictator in an ill fitting commie T-shirt and militant head dress nodding off to the post-lunch drone from the podium.
1 Nov 2012, 10:02 am
@katman-18:
Keo Celebrity Blogger Makeover.
1 Nov 2012, 10:04 am
@gunther-25: Maybe we can send capo for a Schnauzer cut.
1 Nov 2012, 10:08 am
Common guys, really??? After twenty odd years the SA think tank had their Eureka moment. This is all about corporate jargon, big lunches and feeling important.
Truly, how difficult has it really been to address transformation. No one wants to see a quota player in a team and I am sure no one wants to feel like a quota player. Ask Luke Watson, he turned green and wanted to vomit on his jersey. (I’m no LW groupie)
Anyway, its about opportunities and development. Give the less opportune guys the means to develop equally. Or at least access to facilities. This include bursaries. Then from that platform a squad is picked.
No one has ever lamented a non white player (ok, Im not talking about down and outright racists) performing well. Those players enjoy the same status as successful white players. Its unfair to drop names, but just think Breytie, Chester, Simba Cheetah, Beast touches the ball and everyone becomes aware.
My point: Create equal/fair development/scouting opportunities and the rest will take care of itself.
1 Nov 2012, 10:13 am
@cuntlyn-27:
You’d think Super Sport would get more involved here. The more popular rugby becomes amongst the black population the more Premium contracts they’ll sell. Bloody robbers.
1 Nov 2012, 10:16 am
@David-28: Having just paid my R652 this morning, I suspect it’s going to take more than popularity to sell Premium contracts.
1 Nov 2012, 10:19 am
@katman-26:
Indeed.
And get his paws clipped at the same time.
@David-28:
If they can afford them.
Surely the lure of the buckets of world football would already be a draw card?
Unless they do something about the costs or would mean very little difference on their numbers,
1 Nov 2012, 10:22 am
@suffer_guy-14:
Yeah, that’s how NZ managed to beat a quota laden bok side 4 outta 5 tests in 1996? Damn those quotas, if it wasn’t for them the boks might’ve won that series and the tri-nations…
1 Nov 2012, 10:25 am
There i was worried Keo would be low on hits with the lull in rugby this week. Nothing like a transformation article to get things started.
These are my favourite parts of the article. Sounds like real commitment guys. A new dawn:
We have had visions and charters in the past, with good intentions, and progress has been made,’ Hoskins said. ‘But what distinguishes this one is the commitment to properly measure ourselves on our progress.’
No details of the plan have been released yet (they will first discuss an implementation plan), but Hoskins explained that they would strive to go beyond previously unsuccessful attempts at transformation.
1 Nov 2012, 10:53 am
@gonzo-32: Have no fear…. The SARU rugga awards take place this evening…… There is going to be much wailing, chest beating and foot stamping when players who are expected to win certain awards DON’T win them.
Tommorrow should be rather entertaining.
Personally, I’m desperate to see a few Sharks players win the main awards, as the word unplayable comes to mind should it not be so……
1 Nov 2012, 10:59 am
Good work Jurie and Oregan.Now lets put that plan into action.
1 Nov 2012, 11:03 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-33: I will be disappointed if Lambie gets overlooked for player of the year …and future years.They might as well give it to him now.
1 Nov 2012, 11:05 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-33: I’m told there will be a special In Absentia award tonight: the Darwin Award will go to Quade Cooper for successfully removing himself from the ARU gene pool.
1 Nov 2012, 11:11 am
@wnbb-35: WRONG
It’s Keegan’s award to lose……
@katman-36: Classic
***My Quadey is a good boy – said Quades nan before the kickoff of RWC 2011***
1 Nov 2012, 11:14 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-37: Eish!My bad.Totally forgot about the little guy.
1 Nov 2012, 11:19 am
@wnbb-38: Can’t blame you for forgetting the little guy. We haven’t had S_L and his mates on everyday to remind us how ‘gifted and special’ he is.
1 Nov 2012, 11:21 am
Can we give Jurie a reward for removing the Lions from super rugby?Apart from my beloved ‘Province’ winning the CC,that has been my other highlight for 2012.
1 Nov 2012, 11:24 am
@wnbb-40:
lol
1 Nov 2012, 11:25 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-39: for a team that has a “plan” for province’s rolling maul, the Sharks were sure useless at stopping the rampaging mass of bodies..
1 Nov 2012, 11:34 am
@Transformation-42: They also said they had sorted out their lineout problems that came to the fore in the semi final vs the Bulls already. All they did was swop one skew hooker with another….which confused Bok ‘should be bolter’ Bresler to the point where he didn’t even try to win his own ball anymore.
I do see the guppies have moved on though….it’s all about PSDT again.
1 Nov 2012, 11:42 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-39:
we sure are lucky to have him on our side.
1 Nov 2012, 11:45 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-43: interesting t.itbit from the census… “people in KZN are less qualified than people in the WC, yet they are paid more”
1 Nov 2012, 11:46 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-44: I wonder if he has even made the trip to CT for the awards this evening? Considering he stated rather obnoxiously, that he wasn’t going to waste his time flying to CT if he wasn’t going to win anything……
1 Nov 2012, 11:49 am
how come heyneke never selected another centre for the end of year tour?
1 Nov 2012, 11:49 am
Since this is always a politically driven issue, can someone tell me how much our esteemed trough feeders have allocated from the national budget for rugby development in general?
1 Nov 2012, 11:50 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-46:
He might as well stay in Durban, where he also didn’t win anything.
1 Nov 2012, 11:51 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-46:
well, you know the old saying about tempting fate…tsk tsk…
1 Nov 2012, 11:53 am
@Stawm-48:
before or after the buffet costs..?..
1 Nov 2012, 11:54 am
“Saru hopes for new dawn”
Ryan.
What’ is wrong with our old Dawn.
1 Nov 2012, 11:57 am
What strikes me as funny about SARU’s thinking and all the posts above is that everybody seems to think it is just the underprivileged kids in SA that need skills development and training.
The average South African rugby player has very poor skills. Half of the scrummies in SA’s Super 15 sides can only pass well to one side. Our runners very rarely run at the gaps, and we knock the ball on in contact more than we should.
Lets offer good skills coaching to those who are interested in rugby and let the rest work itself out.
1 Nov 2012, 11:58 am
Pivotal shoot-out on Bok tour
Thu, 01 Nov 2012 08:53 I want to stick with just two No.10s – the guys who can play in the World Cup
Three players will be in a straight ‘shoot-out’ to fill one remaining flyhalf spot in the Springbok squad from next year onwards.
Bok coach Heyneke Meyer revealed that as from 2013 he will stick with just two No.10s and those will be the guys who he feels can play in the World Cup in 2015.
While injuries have severely curtailed his career the past year, and can continue to limit his appearances for the Boks, Meyer has been outspoken in his admiration for the undoubted talents of four-Test rookie Johan Goosen.
Given the manner in which the Bok mentor eased the 20-year-old Free State Cheetahs pivot into the international arena this year and Meyer’s high estimation of his talents, it is a given that Goosen is one of the preferred choices for the 2015 World Cup in England.
That leaves the trio of Pat Lambie, Morné Steyn and Elton Jantjies to do battle for the other spot – a fact Meyer highlighted when he addressed the media in Cape Town, where the Boks started preparations for their tour of Ireland, Scotland and England.
“Obviously you want to win every Test and you shouldn’t try too many things at international level,” Meyer told the media briefing.
“However, I also want to use this tour to look at one or two possibilities.”
Those possibilities clearly include putting the three flyhalves on ‘trial’.
Bok veteran Morné Steyn, capped 41 times for his country and the holder of several world records, has suffered a severe slump in form this year. So much so that he was dropped from the Bok team in the Rugby Championship.
However, having been recalled for the year-end tour and a proven match-winner, Meyer is clearly going to give him one more shot at proving his detractors wrong.
Patrick Lambie has been used mainly as fullback back-up by Meyer, but the Bok mentor made it clear he will be given a run at No.10 on tour and is likely to start in one of the three Tests.
Elton Jantjies, who played off the bench behind Goosen in his two Test appearances this year, appears some way down the pecking order, but he too will get a chance at showing that he should be one of two frontline pivots in Meyer’s squad going forward.
However, given Meyer’s earlier statement that Lambie is seen mainly as a fullback at Test level, the Sharks player has most to gain from the ‘pivotal trial’ on tour.
“I have always been open with Patrick [Lambie] and said to him, if he wants to be a No.10, especially with the World Cup being in England, he has to be able to kick tactically more and better,” Meyer told the media briefing hen quizzed about Lambie position in the national team.
“Look at the Currie Cup Final, I know it is at a lower level. However, [even there] it is the team that defends best and have a tactical flyhalf that usually wins.”
Meyer again pointed to the Boks’ kicking shortcoming at international level this year as a reason for having astute tactical flyhalves.
“The strange thing is, if you look at our last Test against New Zealand – we were criticised, but they [the All Blacks] kicked 13 kicks more than us.
“I thought [Dan] Carter was superb in that second half, he kept turning us [around] and we couldn’t get out of our own half.
“You do need a tactical No.10.”
Meyer said he was impressed with Lambie’s progress, but made it clear this tour will be decisive in terms of Test flyhalves.
“I have been open with Patrick and told him if he wants to be at flyhalf he needs to work on his tactical kicking.
“It [Lambie's tactical kicking] has improved and he has worked hard, you can see he has worked hard.
“He is definitely a contender there and I think he can be a great No.10 going forward.
“However, in saying that, after this year I want to stick with [just] two No.10s and those will be the guys who can play in the World Cup [in 2015].”
Flyhalf is not the only position where a couple of players will be on trial.
Incumbent fullback Zane Kirchner can expect stiff competition from Lions rookie Jaco Taute.
Meyer revealed that even though Taute is expected to feature at centre on tour, given the midfield injuries he is faced with, Taute is regarded as a fullback.
“I believe his best position is at No.15,” Meyer said when asked about Taute’s position.
“Without giving too much away, this Test match [against Ireland next Saturday] I would like to see him at No.15, because I believe he can offer something different there.
“However, now with Bryan [Habana] injured and Frans Steyn out, there suddenly are not a lot of No.13s around.
“I would like to give him chance at fullback, but we are as little bit thin at centre. I thought JP [Pietersen] could double up there [midfield], but now Bryan is out as well. We have to shuffle it around, but I think he [Taute] can be a brilliant No.15.
“I see him in the future as a fullback and I have communicated that to him.”
Captain Jean de Villiers is currently the only fit inside centre in the squad, but Meyer said he does have other options should the skipper get injured on tour.
“I like guys to settle in a position.,” Meyer said, adding: “In the World Cup it helps if they can play more than one position. Jaco Taute can play at No.12 and Juan de Jongh can play at inside centre.
“We only have three [specialist] centres in the group, even though JP [Pietersen] can slot in there as well.”
1 Nov 2012, 12:00 pm
@Transformation-45: They work harder and don’t look at the mountain all day, so they deserve more, but really they should be paid double.
1 Nov 2012, 12:00 pm
@gonzo-32:
So in layman terms they have to plan to make a plan to implement a plan that quantifies the plan that they have yet to plan?
1 Nov 2012, 12:02 pm
@suffer_guy-6:
We need the full picture here though. Were they playing soccer with a rugby ball on a lovely green grassed field, or hard sun baked earth?
This fact can easily determine whether tackling each other is worth it or not!
1 Nov 2012, 12:05 pm
@Transformation-45: It’s probably the intellectual disability allowance most guppieland dwellers are entitled to, that ‘ups’ their earnings.
1 Nov 2012, 12:05 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-33: Yeah,well don’t expect to see Keegan there,’cause he does not think he’s gonna win anything
1 Nov 2012, 12:06 pm
@Te Rangatira-56:
You’re a natural for SA politics. Just add some anger and hatred to all not of your skin tone or way of thinking and you’re in! Throw in some absolute recklessness in economic understanding, and a total careless attitude for the consequences of your actions, and you can be our next prez!
(And if you throw in a total denialist attitude, you can automatically run for 2 terms)
1 Nov 2012, 12:08 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-51:
After buffet costs of course!
The comrades must satiate themselves in totality before allocating money to the poor.
1 Nov 2012, 12:09 pm
@Te Rangatira-56: You can’t put ‘plan’ and ‘SARU’ in the same sentence. (Unless the words totalcockup feature as well)
1 Nov 2012, 12:10 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-58:
It’s all the workers building nkandla.
1 Nov 2012, 12:10 pm
@Stawm-60:
Are you talking specifically about South Africa or world politics in general.
1 Nov 2012, 12:12 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-58:
or the fact that they are probably factoring public service employee salaries like zoomer’s 250 very, very big ones which he is busy spending on the upgrade to his royal kraal.
1 Nov 2012, 12:12 pm
@Jeraldjay-64:
World politics actually.
SA just seem to excel in it.
1 Nov 2012, 12:14 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-65:
Is he going to be building a private royal hospital and royal helicopter pad there as well, staffed by royal colonialists?
1 Nov 2012, 12:15 pm
@Stawm-61:
In the memo it’s always described as a “light finger lunch”.
R400 a head later …..
1 Nov 2012, 12:16 pm
@Stawm-61:
hehe
well, feeding the poor and hungry is hard work and to do that the ‘servants’ to the people need to be at full strength… so a multiple course buffet is an understandable expense to incur on the way to liberation and a better life for all.
1 Nov 2012, 12:19 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-65: Nope. I think you are wrong. It definitely is some sort of mental or emotional instability grant. And I use as my frame of reference the majority of guppies round these here parts.
1 Nov 2012, 12:20 pm
@gunther-68:
A bit like the lunch the deputy of the reserve bank had a few years ago – total bill of over R100 000 for about 12 people (stand corrected here though). Was in Sandton somewhere.
After being reprimanded for this, he celebrated events with an even bigger lunch.
Only Johnny Walker Blue Label is good enough.
1 Nov 2012, 12:21 pm
@Stawm-66:
In 2008 Obama was manna from heaven and was the “perfect politian” but look how things have changed.
35 millions worth of damages due to Sandy’s destruction. Hope he does a better job than George W after Catrina.
1 Nov 2012, 12:24 pm
@Jeraldjay-72:
Sorry $35 billion.
1 Nov 2012, 12:25 pm
@Jeraldjay-72:
Yup, seems politics is the way to go if you are too lazy and stupid to earn a decent living. There are no minimum entrance requirements to politics – you just need an inflated ego and a total disregard for the people who vote you in.
1 Nov 2012, 12:26 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-70:
1 Nov 2012, 12:29 pm
Problem with transformation is that it begins with a change in mindset. My experience with most of the people involved in rugby is that they see no value in changing “the system” and do their utmost to ensure that it does not happen. I am a black person, I like my rugby and I want whats best for SA Rugby. I would like to see more black people being given an opportunity, however I would not like our rugby to regress neither.
Opportunity for me means more black players from age group level, right through to Vodacom Cup and Currie Cup. The people at the helm of these institutions need to understand this. This is the reason why I would like to see younger administrators being given an opportunity at the expense of the more experienced ones. I feel that that is where transformation should begin.
1 Nov 2012, 12:32 pm
@siphamade-76:
Agreed 100%
Thats why I asked earlier in this thread how much is being budgeted for sports development from government. Kids need facilities to practice and learn the game before they can decide whether they like it or not. The cost of providing this for schools must be huge. It has to come from government.
1 Nov 2012, 12:37 pm
@Jeraldjay-73: @Stawm-74:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.
It’s coming through a crack in the wall;
on a visionary flood of alcohol;
from the staggering account
of the Sermon on the Mount
which I don’t pretend to understand at all.
It’s coming from the silence
on the dock of the bay,
from the brave, the bold, the battered
heart of Chevrolet:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.
Leonard.
1 Nov 2012, 12:40 pm
@siphamade-76: Great post!
1 Nov 2012, 12:40 pm
@Stawm-77
I only agree with you 75%.
My hope is that both the private sector as well as government should be involved. leaving it to government is a recipe for disaster and this is only from experience.
SARU also needs to be hands on in the whole process.
1 Nov 2012, 12:43 pm
@cane-78: Do you think Leonard Cohen had a premonition involving our blogging friend and confused ex-Saffa freedom fighter ‘Extraball’ when he penned these words?
1 Nov 2012, 12:44 pm
@trupisero-8:
you wicked man, you! 
@Stawm-48: Excellent question, the only thing is we’ll never know because I certainly will no longer easily believe anything which may be spewed out of Hoskins’s or Roux’s mouths.
I also wonder if any money which is claimed to be for development etc will ever reach its intended destination…
Sad but I do not trust them.
1 Nov 2012, 12:47 pm
Been asking for a couple of years now but to no avail… Will ask again…
Can the Keo boffins, Captains of Industry or kenners give this humble dumbfuck a definition of “Transformation”?
1 Nov 2012, 12:48 pm
Gotta love this Orwellian phrase being bandied about:
“Transformation of the Mind”…. WTF???
1 Nov 2012, 12:49 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-81:
Is ET among us?
Under what nik is he hiding?
1 Nov 2012, 12:49 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-79:
Please, stop it. I like it!
1 Nov 2012, 12:49 pm
@Stawm-67:
well, the best pilots are white
and zoomer is the boss, so only the best for the boss.
or is that like saying: “Look, if you go to a black pilot and he doesn’t fly your chopper properly, you don’t go back. If you go to a white pilot and he doesn’t fly your chopper properly, you go back and make sure he fixes the problem”…?..
1 Nov 2012, 12:50 pm
I applaud Saru and the government for implementing transformation policies for the greater good of all South African.Back in the days exclusion was the policy of the day.They were so arrogant in their ways and thinking that they even decided on selection policies for England and New ZealandSport and social policies were for the benifit of one community only.
1 Nov 2012, 12:50 pm
@siphamade-80:
I agree with you 78%
Government has the financial ability to get this job done if they would just stop “losing/borrowing” funds everywhere.
They can also provide tax benefits to the private sector to encourage their involvement.
Ultimately it is in their hands.
1 Nov 2012, 12:51 pm
@siphamade-76:
Sad thing is these younger adminstrators will start with good intentions but as soon as their is a crisis they will sell their souls to popular opinion.
And unfortunately popular opinion doesn’t support transformation.
1 Nov 2012, 12:53 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-70:
so was them leaving really because payments are/were delayed?
1 Nov 2012, 12:54 pm
@wnbb-88:
I believe the Berlin wall was also still standing in those days?
1 Nov 2012, 12:55 pm
If you want more black players in the bok 22 (besides the odd SA black player in the back three) that can actually play rugby and can physically match their Afrikaans and English SAFFA counter parts? Then raid ZImbabwe, the Shonas are the peak of athletic genes. Tall, big and fast. They are the moaris of Africa that and the Nigerians (but there are too many of them here as is) and imost important, they like rugby!!!
I say we scout the schools and rural areas of Zim and get those Shonas SA passports. We’ve had three Shonas in the SA rugby system and they have all three played for the boks.
In the end most Xhosas are too short and small and the Zulu’s hate rugby!
1 Nov 2012, 12:58 pm
@goodstuff-93:
Like you said, no need to scout Zim for those guys, they are here already, with SA ids.
This was governments plan all along.
1 Nov 2012, 12:58 pm
@Stawm-92: I think blacks had a bigger problem protecting their arses from being dumped from staircases and flipped out through windows of high rise buildings than to worry about a blooming wall somewhere in Deutschland.
1 Nov 2012, 13:00 pm
@Heavens Game-83:
Okay HG………………………………………….here goes, I’ll give it a go.
Transformation:
-A well rounded Poster who is not backward in coming forward when expressing his opinion.
-He is very knowledgeable on all aspects of the game and very well read.
-He is ballanced on all aspects of Rugby, except when it comes to the Kings/Lions.
-Keo.comedy needs more like him.
-He is not a jackal.
1 Nov 2012, 13:00 pm
@goodstuff-93: Look at Etsebeth, did not have the opportunities of the “Elite” schools, he went to a normal city school (Goodwood), and was spotted by Bekker (because how do you miss Etsebeth?) and because he had the physical ability has now made it all the way.
Let’s be honest, if we had physically talented black South Africans all over the place, than they would have made the step up.
There are three huge barriers/ challanges that stretch beyond SA Rugby and involve other departments or issue of SA:
1. The majority of the black population in SA are not getting proper nutrion.
2. Majority of balck South Africans do not like or even understand rugby.
3. The school facilities in poor areas are **** and thus the sport utilities are ****!
1 Nov 2012, 13:02 pm
@wnbb-95:
I agree entirely.
My point though is there has only been one captain of the SA ship these past 2 decades and its not us whities. We cant be blamed forever. The new captain is now responsible.
1 Nov 2012, 13:02 pm
@goodstuff-93:
i wouldn’t trust a nigie with anything on a rugby field
seriously though, are the shonas much bigger than the ndebele’s? wasn’t it the ndebeles who conquered them, or was this because of superiour fighting skills?
1 Nov 2012, 13:04 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-99:
Shorter assegaais?
1 Nov 2012, 13:06 pm
@Jeraldjay-90:
I understand the vicious circle, however, mine i to say to always strive to do the right thing. It will always be better than doing nothing.
I am like Malema, a Trnasfomation Freedom Fighter! lol.
And before I am lambasted, that is a joke.
1 Nov 2012, 13:07 pm
@cane-96: Good man… No need to wink though because I bet that your try is probably the closest you will get to a definition… ever… without some useful idiot getting tongue tied and twisted in PC bullshitt…
Another good one is try ask what a definition of a “Game Plan” is…
Nevertheless it seems “transformation” is the holy grail (or holy cow even) of definitions…
It is talked about profusely… (Especially by Trades Union types, or whitey liberal NIMBY types trying to polish struggle credentials) But has never been found.
1 Nov 2012, 13:12 pm
@Stawm-100:
ok, an instance in which ‘less is more’ won out in battle then..?..
go figure.
just to be clear is the answer: yes they are bigger than ndebeles?
1 Nov 2012, 13:16 pm
My biggest argument is the “why transform when their has never been a sporting culture in specific community” and the follow up “maybe they have played sport for hundreds of years but were they any good”
1 Nov 2012, 13:16 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-99: Beast, Mujati and Chavanga are Shonas to my knowledge. Ndebeles are also have strong genes the yare mostly based on the southern part of Zim, but they are oppressed by the ruling ZANU PF (majority Shona) so they don’t have the proper schooling.
1 Nov 2012, 13:17 pm
Ask a Saffa to explain exactly what “Transformation” is and it seems he will pretend you didn’t ask…
or you might get a retort like “Your mind is not transformed yet”… or some such…
1 Nov 2012, 13:21 pm
@Heavens Game-106: “Your mind is not transformed yet” – in other words – “We are trying to ‘conscientise’ (read ‘brainwash’) you”.
1 Nov 2012, 13:23 pm
Transformation is what happens to the electricity from the wall to my scalectrix set.
1 Nov 2012, 13:23 pm
@Heavens Game-106: I believe “transformation” is a process coined by the ruling ANC goverment of South Africa as the process of “writing the wrongs of the past”.
Wrongs of the past:
Blacks excluded from any and every higher level of:
- Education
- Sport
- Employment
- Access to “public areas:
- Nationa representation at international sports events
- Right to dignity etc.
That is my interpretation, the goverment see it as:
A free ticket for all my family and friends, amandla!!!
1 Nov 2012, 13:27 pm
@goodstuff-109: and when they stop writing about it they might even think of doing something constructive when righting the wrongs of the past
1 Nov 2012, 13:28 pm
If anything solidifies my declaration, of years standing, that true NON-RACIALISM has not ever existed since 1652 already, then this new ANC / Govt. effort does so by a factor X 1000000.
Who had the foresight to coin that wonderful term NEO-RACISM.
Who has written this statement below, countless times? :
Where I lead YOU will still follow.
1 Nov 2012, 13:30 pm
@Heavens Game-106: “Transformation” is a planned process of change for the better or improvement. Whether this definition in a SA context is understood or applied as such is debateable of course.
1 Nov 2012, 13:33 pm
@ET.-111: OK, bye and close the door behind you, domd00s.
1 Nov 2012, 13:41 pm
Proteas test cricket has a decent representation for the upcoming Australian series
JP, Alviro, Vernon, Hashim, Tahir and Kleinveldt.
All there on merit. Should be a yardstick for all codes to follow.
1 Nov 2012, 13:41 pm
@goodstuff-105:
yes.
amazing the cycle of life and how the wheel turns full circle on all people.
go back in history and the ndebeles were the dominant people there who had conqured and subjugated/assimilated the shonas and other tribes into their own culture and now, since mugabe and co’s rise to power from the 80′s onwards its the ndebeles on the receiving end of shona domination.
1 Nov 2012, 13:48 pm
@Heavens Game-106:
I remember YOU talking about the need for rugby to transform or government to get involve after our 1/4 final exit in the RWC last year.
Why don’t you tell us what you think transformation is and where you think government should get involved?
1 Nov 2012, 13:48 pm
‘Controlling’ groups of dumb Blacks simply out for pots of gold are the easiest sub-group of humans to fool.
Fake pieces of papers that are called “charters” or “treaties” are nothing more than glorified pinkpiggieporkies signed by pinkpiggies who ‘stole’ president status at their franchises. All you have to do is look at their surnames:
Verster, De Klerk, Van Zyl, Van Graan, Bosman,Tightarse; and those are just from the top lot.
Now what do you fools expect this “signed declaration” to be if not airy, flary , pie-in-sky lies, in short FRAUD of just another colour.
All you dummies need to do is think back to the denial of De Jong and Aplon over the last two years even in ‘liberal’ Cape Town to smell the rotten coorpe of deceit.
But that is what you will not do. What you will do instead is give effort after effort of side-tracking like harmless references like ” SARU and plan” cannot be in the same phrase.
Deal with the issues on the ground. The people of greater Bellville (the majority group) have angrily spoken for years already and they are not alone in their anger over a fraud they know is NEO-RACISM.
1 Nov 2012, 13:49 pm
@ET.-111:
So you are saying that prior to 1652, there was no racism?
Really?
All the tribes lived together in harmony?
Xhosas’ didnt go on rampages slaughtering thousands before them.
The Zulus neither?
The smaller tribes were always welcomed everywhere?
The Koi San chose to drive themselves south.
And then the evil European came to the continent, bringing nothing of value with him? No medical advances? Nothing of value?
Phew
1 Nov 2012, 13:53 pm
@Stawm-118:
that’s right.
blame Gunther van Riebeek.
1 Nov 2012, 13:58 pm
what is a Aplon?
1 Nov 2012, 13:58 pm
@Jeraldjay-114:
When they started playing for the Proteas, were they seen as being there on merit or did they have to convince a certain section through their performances that they were there on merit?
Remember what people’s reaction was when Philander was selected last year? It was only after his great performances that people came out and acknowledged that they “have egg on my face.”
Alviro still has to constantly prove himself as being there on merit.
JP is in direct competition with Rudolph for the one batting spot if they decide to play Tsolekile as wicket keeper. I can guarantee you that some will see it as a quota selection if he gets the nod ahead of Rudolph.
Kleinveld people don’t know much about because they don’t follow domestic cricket. I bet you many see him as a quota selection and will do so until he proves himself at international level.
1 Nov 2012, 14:02 pm
how many runs did Alviro score in the T20 Championship? Was it even 35? … reminds me of Andrew Hudson …. just when everyone is gatvol and he is on the brink of being dropped, he goes and scores a century!
1 Nov 2012, 14:03 pm
@Stawm-118:
Yes, there was no racism, because the only people who were in South Africa at that time were the San and the Khoikhoi…
1 Nov 2012, 14:03 pm
@Heavens Game-106:
Even if you honestly gave Fikile all the intellectual aids to help him define transformation he will not be able to do so for it will remove his pie-in-the-sky term of “Transformation” that is an invisible wall to fraudulently hide behind.
He has never advanced the principle of non-racialism, he does not ever embody nor understands what it is. All he sees are opportunities to fatten a wallet and worse.
More Xoliles in a team answers his needs and equates to his desires of “Transfornication” for that is what Transformation has become(I even wrote it yesterday for your buddy).
What do simple words like fairness and opportunities for ALL at ALL levels of S.A society(not only rugby ,not only sport) mean when all it does is remove his invisible cover-wall?
1 Nov 2012, 14:04 pm
@nama1-121:
Cricket is an individual sport within a team environment.
So its easy to determine how good a players is by compiling stats.
Rugby is different because a players performance/ability is rated by popualar opinion.
1 Nov 2012, 14:08 pm
I see the average white family in SA now earns 6x more than the average black family.
Why am I not surprised?
Every time the topic of transformation/ econ empowerment comes up we make great strides in theory only to move several steps backwards in reality.
They are channeling resources now more aggressively to themselves than before 1994. Next time they check the scoreboard it will be 8x or 10x and they will simply shrug the shoulders…
1 Nov 2012, 14:08 pm
@nama1-121:
Unfortunately you are 100% correct. People do question the merit of non whites selections in sports teams.
I believe this is because it is politically forced to have x number of non white players, so there is suspicion etc.
It is hugely unfair to the players.
1 Nov 2012, 14:09 pm
@Sheriff-126:
Who are “they”?
1 Nov 2012, 14:11 pm
Politics …booooring.
Outta here.
1 Nov 2012, 14:11 pm
The nature of the beast is that human conflicts will exist wherever men and women are to be found (power struggle for the individuals). But where can there be racism when no foreign invaders from distant continents are to be found.
At that time all who roamed the coastline where all from one tribe so even tribalism cannot be referred to.
Try your pinkiepiggyporkies(pie-in-the-sky) elsewhere as the indigenous people are flexing their muscles. More labour troubles lurk in ever increasing numbers in a matter of months.
1 Nov 2012, 14:12 pm
@Sheriff-126:
Proof?
1 Nov 2012, 14:15 pm
@Stawm-127: Well said.
1 Nov 2012, 14:15 pm
@Sheriff-126:
What is to be expected when the economy is owned by stranger looking foreign invaders(of 100s of years) who struggle to deal with the uv rays of the sun as they do not have the needed genes for more melanin to protect them(who has the highest rates of skin cancers)?
1 Nov 2012, 14:16 pm
@WP-Forever-128:
I am referring to those who occupy 80-90% of the senior management (EXCO and boards) positions of the typical South African company.
These are the same people who held or managed most of the resources prior to 1994.
What surprises me of this group is that they have had a bit of money in the family for more than a century and still not used to it.
I can understand that a guy will hardly have furniture in his house but his fancy black Range Rover is there. This is new money symptoms; it is to compensate for the internal deficit. The bad news is that it is unlikely that this group will get used to in the next 80 years based on the sample referred to above.
1 Nov 2012, 14:18 pm
@Stawm-131:
Census 2011
1 Nov 2012, 14:19 pm
@gunther-119: ag fark off man,or be a good boy and shut the fark up.Nobody,except your boyfriend Katman and a few others,is interested in your attempt at comedy.
1 Nov 2012, 14:20 pm
@ET.-133:
Does anyone take you seriously?
(except for yourself)
1 Nov 2012, 14:23 pm
@Sheriff-135:
That is in direct contrast to other statistics saying how much the black middle class is expanding on a year to year basis.
Are you saying the executive boards of major companies are still too white, or still the same as the previous 15 years?
Is this what you are focusing on?
1 Nov 2012, 14:26 pm
@Sheriff-135:
Actually can you provide a link to that?
1 Nov 2012, 14:27 pm
@Stawm-137:
A FOOL like you clearly does. Have you noticed?
How much more then are you to address your posts to me?
Luckily for dummies like you ,Miami will save you today.
1 Nov 2012, 14:28 pm
@Sheriff-126: Well that’s no surprise.According to British auditors they discovered that the apartheid government and its followers,just before the fall of apartheid,robbed the state coffers to the tune of billions of rands.These monies were successfully channelled into legal enterprises which they still have the benifit off up to today.The basically operated like the mafia of the day,who,decided to stop their illegal ways and started legal business.
1 Nov 2012, 14:28 pm
@Stawm-138:
Mate, let’s start at the beginning: are you white?
1 Nov 2012, 14:29 pm
@ET.-140:
You are right. I am a fool to respond to your drivel. No more.
You clearly cannot respond with any valid answers to my questions.
1 Nov 2012, 14:30 pm
@Stawm-139:
Do you mean an internet link?
I am waiting for the stats to be made available online and will see what trends one can detect.
1 Nov 2012, 14:31 pm
@Sheriff-142:
Irrelevant question.
1 Nov 2012, 14:31 pm
@Sheriff-144:
So you are quoting info on a public forum that no-one else here can access?
1 Nov 2012, 14:33 pm
@wnbb-141:
Perhaps you can give me a bit more information on that; I’d like to pursue that a bit further.
I don’t mean here on the blog but in my own time…
1 Nov 2012, 14:34 pm
@wnbb-141:
Why was this never dealt with, since the evidence is there?
Deal with it and move on?
I certainly see no benefit from it. I say it should be dealt with.
1 Nov 2012, 14:37 pm
@Stawm-145:
No it’s relevant.
Unfortunately in South Africa race is a key determining factor because of our past.This means that you will probably take a certain line of argument because of your skin colour – that’s sad I know but that’s SA for you.
Btw – don’t think for one moment I want your resources; matter of fact I will give you more if necessary. Material wealth is something the pagans/heathens have always craved, but it’s not I’m after.
1 Nov 2012, 14:38 pm
@Heavens Game-106: @ET.-124:
Why don’t you guys give us YOUR definition of transformation? You know that you are going to shoot down any definition that somebody else put up here.
Come on, be bold. Tell us what you think transformation means.
1 Nov 2012, 14:39 pm
@Stawm-146:
So you’re saying I’m referring to info that is available to me and me alone.
Mate, ever heard of the television or radio?
Heard it there but to unpack it in more detail I am waiting for Stats SA docs which would give me a good feel/snapshot of where we are right now.
1 Nov 2012, 14:42 pm
143:
Tail between the legs with much stupidity to accompany the pinkiepiggypoker.
Deflated, defeated sidetracking ‘oerwoudklontjie’.
How many tribes do you need for tribalism to manifest?
How many races(including horse races) do you need for RACISM to raise its ugly head?
1 Nov 2012, 14:43 pm
@Stawm-146:
It was reported in the newspapers, Stawm.
I think you will be able to google it. Try news24.
1 Nov 2012, 14:45 pm
No one can be blamed for being born into a white family in SA.
But you have a responsibility to ask: who am I? And here I am not referring to your biological roots of German, Dutch, English, Portuguese etc.
If you’re brave seeker of the truth you will discover that those roots are often freemasonry typically dressed up in a religious cloak. It’s harsh I know, but do your homework thoroughly and see for yourself.
The average blogger here on keo is either considering freemasonry himself or has family involved in it.
1 Nov 2012, 14:46 pm
@Jeraldjay-114: Amen to that!!!!!!
1 Nov 2012, 14:46 pm
@Sheriff-151:
I dont trust TV news. Are you crazy?
1 Nov 2012, 14:47 pm
His royal fa rtknocker creeps out from under the rock………this thread will go for a ball of kak in about 30 min flat
1 Nov 2012, 14:48 pm
@Sheriff-126: I do not believe those stats, the problem is the same problem we had at Marikane where the miner says “I only earn R4000″, meanwhile he gets a housing allowance a shift allowance so his gross is R10000.The Stats sheet asked for gross earnings and I can bet you that they put the amount they see on the bottom line.
1 Nov 2012, 14:49 pm
@Sheriff-154:
I’m not with you.
What do you actually want from whites then?
1 Nov 2012, 14:50 pm
@umkhonto-158:
My point exactly.
Statistics are like bikinis. They show you plenty, but not what you really want to see!
1 Nov 2012, 14:51 pm
@Stawm-156:
No but you are.
That’s what is being reported but the full details will be made available.
Do you want more resources? What would you like: more money?
1 Nov 2012, 14:51 pm
@nama1-150:
It is not a word I use as a non-racialist in Africa.
Transformation belongs to notion of reformation which is merely papering over of societal cracks.
Revolution is a far healthier term. In a continent like Africa and especially in a country like South Africa the pyramid needs to be turned on its head. The apex thus points earthwards and the base to the sky. Surely the are greater numbers( denied people) in the base than in the apex?
‘Jy moet wakker skrik en begin dieper dink, Namaskrara. Miljoene arme mense het dringende hulp nodig. Hulle het niks vir omtrent 350 jaar gekry.’
1 Nov 2012, 14:51 pm
90% of the questions on the sensus weren’t compulsory … you can’t draw any conclusions on the results (except for the number of people) .. i.e how many people disclosed their salary or what their home was worth? … everyone i know thought that this whole sensus story was a load of kak and didn’t even bother in giving accurate results …
1 Nov 2012, 14:53 pm
@suffer_guy-163: Gave them the bare minimum. Hulle moere
1 Nov 2012, 14:53 pm
@Stawm-159: An apology
1 Nov 2012, 14:53 pm
@umkhonto-158:
Do you want me to defend the Government’s actions?
Why will I defend actions that are at least as corrupt as the private sector?
Let’s wait for the stats to be made available and unpack from there.
1 Nov 2012, 14:57 pm
@Sheriff-161:
So to be clear, you are saying I’m crazy for being suspicious of the news on TV, even though the ANCs influence in news broadcasts is common knowledge.
hmmmmm
1 Nov 2012, 14:58 pm
@Stawm-159:
The things you value are in all likelihood meaningless to me.
Therefore I want nil from you, except to go and research and find out who you really are.
Who are you stawm?
1 Nov 2012, 14:58 pm
@Finfan-165:
Hasnt that been done yet?
1 Nov 2012, 15:00 pm
@Sheriff-168:
I’m not sure what you are trying to achieve here with that question.
Seems silly to me and maybe something for psyche 101 at Uni.
Who are you?
1 Nov 2012, 15:02 pm
@Stawm-167:
Don’t worry about what’s going on in your neighbour’s house! That’s his business.
If he is walking in righteous paths then it will come to light, if not – it will also…
Check out your own backyard and let’s take it from there?
Who are you stawm?
1 Nov 2012, 15:02 pm
@Stawm-169: Have you apologised personally? Come on, this is an open, public forum and ET and Sherriff are waiting for you to be humble and recognise that you have no right to even be here.
1 Nov 2012, 15:02 pm
@Stawm-170:
I am the one asking you: who are you?
So then: who are you stawm?
1 Nov 2012, 15:04 pm
“Transformation” and “a new dawn”(the old one is ‘verlep’). What else do you need in Africa?
Why do the two fools simply “rumble” in their “jungle”. for the advent of many newer dawns then?
Is that not a “mother and child re-union” of sorts for them since someone wrote she is his “mother”?
1 Nov 2012, 15:05 pm
@Finfan-172:
I apologise for nothing then.
I am self made.
If I’m not wanted here, I will leave. Simple.
1 Nov 2012, 15:07 pm
@Finfan-172:
Don’t speak on my behalf!
Who are you?
1 Nov 2012, 15:12 pm
See the part you don’t want to talk about and keeps sending decoy runners is this: if you dig in the backyard you may well find in a shallow grave the corpse of freemasonry or broederbondery.
Don’t worry about the ANC – they are on a path of self-destruction.
Dr Mamphela Ramphele is on to them; read her comments in the media recently; they are like the Nats the personification of corruption.
1 Nov 2012, 15:13 pm
@Sheriff-176: My name is Finfan and I am a white African. I shot the sheriff but I did not shoot his deputy. Promise.
1 Nov 2012, 15:14 pm
Btw – why are we not talking about the fact the WP won the Currie Cup??
Surely we must unpack that for at least 1 month
1 Nov 2012, 15:15 pm
@Finfan-178:
What SA team do you support?
1 Nov 2012, 15:16 pm
@Stawm-160:
“Statistics are like bikinis. They show you plenty, but not what you really want to see!”
Strange how you question certain stats when it does not suit you but are willing to throw some others around when it suits you.
@Stawm-138:
@Sheriff-135:
That is in direct contrast to other statistics saying how much the black middle class is expanding on a year to year basis.
1 Nov 2012, 15:20 pm
@Sheriff-180: The only SA team is the Boks. I do support them, but don’t like the coach. What provincial team or franchise do you support?
1 Nov 2012, 15:25 pm
@nama1-150: What would I know?
I dance to the rythm of “duelling banjos”
.If you are born into a master/ servant enviroment(i e Black nanny/white infant) then you will always have the need to be transformed because you will
always be subliminally/inherently racist. The same logicapplies in a society of
extreme differences in wealth
between the haves and the have nots.
I get irate when the word transformation is used to pillory whites.Should the
Indians not need to transform from their caste system discrimination?
Todays leading story in the Mercury(Natals daily rag for the semi literate)
is that firms who donate to charities that support a single(one) Coloured,Indian or White will lose BEE points.The recipients must be 100%
black.Reverse apartheid?Should the Govt.not transform itself.Should blacks not transform?People like ET whom I assume suffered under apartheid
do not miss an opportunity to lash out are also required to transform.
We are building a hell of a country where hatred and greed predominate.
We are living in an Orwellian world of Newspeak.Black is good-White is bad.
And that is my rant.
1 Nov 2012, 15:25 pm
@nama1-181:
That was my point exactly. Who is right? My interpretation, or Sheriffs, or the way the stats were originally compiled!
Case closed.
1 Nov 2012, 15:26 pm
@ET.-162:
How do you propose for this revolution thing of yours to take place or is it too late for that now?
Moerse difference between transformation and reformation btw.
TRANSFORMATION: A marked change in appearance or character, especially one for the better.
REFORMATION: An improvement (or an intended improvement) in the existing form or condition of institutions or practices etc. intended to make a striking change for the better in social or political or religious affairs.
1 Nov 2012, 15:31 pm
@Sheriff-147: Have you heard of a document or report called Apartheid Grand Corruption?This document makes for fascinating reading especially the section,Corruption under PW Botha and FW de Klerk.There is also another report called the Ciex report,compiled by the British forensic investigative company Ciex which gives a fascinating insight into what happened during the last few years before the end of apartheid.
1 Nov 2012, 15:36 pm
@ET.-174:
“many newer dawns” should correctly read many new donnertjies.
Since not a single new donnertjie exists they will all be new donnertjies , not so?
1 Nov 2012, 15:42 pm
SARU and the governing bodies say that transformation is essential as our national sports teams need to reflect the make up of our population.
If that’s true, then why are they counting Beast Mtawarira, Raymond Rhule and various others as “players of colour”??
Zimbabweans and Ghanians make up the smallest percentage of South African population and should not be more valuable to our national sports teams than white South Africans.
These are both very decent players, don’t get me wrong, but let’s not beat around the bush here – the SARU administration would prefer to see anyone play for the Boks as long as they’re not white. A Samoan would probably be seen as a “player of colour” and preferred over a white South African.
Racism is what governs the motivations of our Sport’s administrations, not the healthy move towards transformation.
1 Nov 2012, 15:46 pm
@ryecatcher-183:
Lot of what you say, is too true. People calling the current government the “black Nats” are not far off imo.
I’m just worried that the rugby administrators/coaches are not pulling their socks wrt this transformation of the game. They still see it as a numbers game and one can see it in the squad/teams that Meyer selects even.
About 1/3 of his squad are usually P’sOC but people fail to see that most of them are wings who won’t get selected for the team that goes onto the field.
He’s been starting three P’sOC now for the last few test matches. From where I’m sitting, I’m starting to think the reason why JdJ, or Jantjies for that matter, does not get selected to start, is because Meyer believes he already has his maximum of THREE P’sOC in the team. Beast, Habs and Kirchner throughout the year. For this tour it is probably going to be Kirchner, Beast/Gurthro and JPP.
He’ll claim that he is busy with transformation…I see him playing a numbers game.
Now, the rugby people must wake up and do it themselves so that the government don’t have to get involved and freakin feck everything up.
1 Nov 2012, 15:49 pm
@Finfan-182:
Do you support the Sharks?
1 Nov 2012, 15:53 pm
@wnbb-186:
Thanks mate!
I will look into it further.
Look out also for a book entitled ‘The Super-Afrikaners: Inside the Afrikaner Broederbond’
1 Nov 2012, 15:54 pm
@nama1-185:
Please stop being utterly dumb man. Just look at the ROOT of the two words. It is exactly the same Latin root, so how can their be a “Moerse difference”?
It is not for me to to propose anything but for many like-minded people to educate workers to desire to take control of their fate and purpose in life.
‘Nou kan jy a bietjie meer wakkerskrik en dan die werk doen’. Jou JC Superstar het dit gedoen in sy tyd’.
What was more violent than the overthrowing of the money-lenders tables ( corrupt BANKS)? What was more beautifully instructive than the sharing of the fish and the loaves of bread (socialism, there you have your biblical lesson?
‘Ek sukkel om op pad Miami toe te ry. ‘ Bye
1 Nov 2012, 15:54 pm
I see the self proclaimed lilly ****** liberals from the proud Cape have got themselves in a flak spin…
Also, I see no real definition of “Transformation”… Still.
So… nobody on Keo has undergone “Transformation of the Mind”?
1 Nov 2012, 15:59 pm
@nama1-185: So when SARU have a Summit on “Transformation”, all they are looking for or to do is:
“A marked change in appearance or character, especially one for the better.”
Along with all the talk by trades unionists or NIMBY lillyfukken liberals trying to brush up their credentials is just about “changing character/appearance for the better”…
Farkenhell… I must be a dumbfuck of note…
1 Nov 2012, 15:59 pm
Jeesus, Rondebosch East is restless again on this thread.
1 Nov 2012, 16:00 pm
@Heavens Game-193:
You wont find that definition for it is just pie-in-the-sky for the delinquent morons to hide behind
1 Nov 2012, 16:01 pm
Back to the WP Currie Cup Champs reality…
I sincerely hope that this victory will open Toetie’s eyes. For years he has been echoing the sentiments of Jacob Westerduin and Heyneke Meyer. Now if I want to learn from rugby I will not look to the Dutch or Germans – they are too mechanical in their thinking.
Rugby is a game of continuous movement.
Province played a style or rugby not dissimilar to the All Blacks and outplayed an experienced Sharks team; in rugby terms it was actually a humiliation because this young side should never have won.
But it shows you if you honour the principles of rugby anything is possible.
Speaking of Toetie: if he can embrace this style of total rugby then I will throw my weight behind his selection of the next Bok coach.
1 Nov 2012, 16:01 pm
@ET.-196:
To define it is to attempt to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.
Note how distant our ‘buddy’ Transfornication is?
1 Nov 2012, 16:03 pm
@nama1-185:
Even your written definitions simply asks you to broaden your limited thinking.
1 Nov 2012, 16:05 pm
@Sheriff-190: “Fin”-fan. Bulls have horns. Cheetahs have spots. Lions have f0kkol. The Kings have less than fokkkol. WP has the CC. Sharks have fins.
1 Nov 2012, 16:07 pm
@Finfan-200:
Boy did you guys get a hiding on Saturday?
What happened? Are you ok?
1 Nov 2012, 16:08 pm
Khumbaya…….
What do you GET when you cross a Saffa hating ex-pat/academic freedom fighter/revolutionary agent of change and full time narcissist, with a twat like HG?
Answer: Seriouslyfucking ILL.
1 Nov 2012, 16:09 pm
To wet the appetite:Apartheid grand corruption -However, it is worth noting that this was not always the case. For more than 300 years, all South Africans were under the yoke of colonial and apartheid rule, a system that benefited the few at the expense of the many. It was a system that ensured that white settlers—and later, white South Africans—were at the helm of a racial oligarchy that was built on the subjugation of black South Africans. It was a corrupt system of governance. A near monopoly on money, power and influence were in the hands of a minority and they used this to either violently suppress the majority or, at best, transfer resources in order to stave off the inevitable revolution.
Racist nationalism is as vulnerable to corruption as most systems of authoritarian rule. In closed societies, which are highly militarised under dictatorial rule, the truth is hidden from public view by design. Access to power (and a monopoly over it) provides the elite in the public and private sectors with a unique opportunity to line their pockets. In so doing, the defenders of an illegitimate and corrupt system start to defy their own rules and laws that criminalise such behaviour. In terms of common law crime they are simply crooks dressed in the guise of patriots representing the interests of their volk, their race or their narrow class. They have effectively corrupted themselves.
Such a system can also only survive for as long as a monopoly over power is maintained. Its survival is therefore tenuous—common knowledge to all functionaries of the system, who are the first to ensure that they are taken care of should there be a break with the past. This leads to a reliance on ‘insurance’, usually in the form of cash or other easily moveable assets that can be moved abroad in the event of regime change. It is in the period before regime change that the elite, in particular, are likely to accumulate as many resources as possible for fear that they may soon be out of a job or, at worst, have to flee the country.
This is illustrated in the history of many countries. In Peru, President Alberto Fujimori was alleged to have embezzled $600 million (over R7 billion) from the Peruvian people before he fled to Japan, where he resisted requests for his extradition to Peru.3 It was also only after fascism in Germany was smashed in the mid-1940s that tales emerged of generals who had stolen gold and fantastic treasures from the victims of the European genocide. All the Nazi gold did not end up at the bottom of an illusive lake in the Alps, as was often theorised—some of it was located soon after the war but much of the money remained locked up in Swiss bank accounts for decades or financed homes in South
1 Nov 2012, 16:10 pm
@Heavens Game-194:
Do YOU have a definition for transformation?
1 Nov 2012, 16:10 pm
@ET.-196: Since everyone, especially here on Keo, seem to love using these words profusely like “game plan” or “transformation” when relating to the Boks or Sport or South Africa in general… I just happened to think that maybe someone knew what they were actually farken talking about….
Maybe thats the problem with lilly liberalverbal diarrhea… it just spews out indiscriminately with no rhyme or reason…
1 Nov 2012, 16:11 pm
@Finfan-178:
ok but then who did shoot the deputy?
1 Nov 2012, 16:14 pm
@Sheriff-126: Care to enlighten us as to where you sit on this scale? How many times greater than the average black income is yours? The notion that coloureds are somehow exempt from this conversation is nonsense. If your income and lifestyle put you on the “us” side of us & them, then you need to ask yourself the same tricky questions.
1 Nov 2012, 16:14 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-202: Hey here comes Keo’s very own self proclaimed lillyliberal “Doc”… Care to venture a definition for “transformation”?
Sure you can find a definition in that DSV – IV, V or VI, wherever the fark its at now, of yours…
You know, that little tome all med/psych/OTs students have to beg, borrow or buy in 1st year…
Come on “Doc”… Enlighten us
1 Nov 2012, 16:15 pm
@wnbb-203: ABSA Bank stashed a lot of that cash……(or rather the old ‘banks’ from way back who are now part of the Amalgamated banks of SA)
1 Nov 2012, 16:16 pm
@Sheriff-201: Thanks, I am starting to get over it, but is very, very hard. The therapy is also helping, but expensive.
(I won’t call it a “hiding” though. If the Sharks scored in the final minute of the game it would’ve been a draw.)
1 Nov 2012, 16:16 pm
‘No resources’ to probe apartheid plunder
July 3 2011 at 01:23pm
By DIANNE HAWKER
——————————————————————————–
The Public Protector does not have the resources to investigate claims that billions of rands were looted from state coffers under the apartheid regime and that the government did nothing to retrieve the funds once it knew the extent of the plundering.
Thuli Madonsela acknowledged though that the matter “is important” and falls within her ambit, after being presented with a report detailing the work of a covert UK-based asset recovery agency that was allegedly contracted by the South African government in 1997 to investigate apartheid corruption.
The agency, Ciex, is headed by former British Secret Intelligence Service (MI6) agent Michael Oatley, who led secret talks with the Irish Republican Army (IRA) to bring about peace in Northern Ireland.
In the report Oatley details allegations of how more than R26.1 billion was siphoned from public funds through illegal transactions.
While one such payment was investigated in the late 1990s – a R3.2 million payment to Bankorp, later one of the banks to form Amalgamated Banks of South Africa (Absa) – similar payments were not.
A commission of inquiry led by Judge Willem Heath found the payment to be irregular, but did not demand the bank or its investors repay the funds.
Ciex said the South African government could retrieve:
- R3.2bn from Absa
- R3bn to R6bn from Sanlam and Rembrandt, major investors in Bankorp.
Ciex said “up to R5.5bn” could be recovered from French aerospace manufacturer Aero-spatiale/Daimler-Chrysler.
The company says that in 1999 it was tasked by “the president” to investigate irregular payments by Armscor and it discovered that the state arms company siphoned R14,4bn through “Luxemborg accounts, managed through the Paris Embassy”.
Oatley and his team uncovered several other schemes including one in which US suppliers collaborated with government officials between 1987 and 1993 to defraud the government “by ordering large items of expensive equipment which were paid for but not delivered”.
1 Nov 2012, 16:17 pm
@Heavens Game-208: No time to play. Just wanted to p # ss you off. I have a function to attend a little later.
Hit and run visit.
Toodles.
1 Nov 2012, 16:17 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-209: Ha ha ha… Did you also get that from your DSV biblical book of all out “medical” wisdom….
Dumbfuck
1 Nov 2012, 16:18 pm
@katman-207: Exactly.I pose the same
question to Blacks & Indians
1 Nov 2012, 16:21 pm
@nama1-211: Hi Nama.The amounts
you mention almost seem like petty cash when compared to what is happening nowadays.Lets start with the Arms Deal.
1 Nov 2012, 16:22 pm
Oatley and his team uncovered several other schemes including one in which US suppliers collaborated with government officials between 1987 and 1993 to defraud the government “by ordering large items of expensive equipment which were paid for but not delivered”.
Nothing has changed.
Vokkit. I thought we were going to transform this country for the better.
The masters tought their students well and then were kicked to the curb.
1 Nov 2012, 16:25 pm
@ryecatcher-215:
We are not really going to compare who are the most corrupt, are we Rye?
1 Nov 2012, 16:25 pm
I hear a lot of “who are you”‘s around here
Sounds like six episodes of fecking CSI
1 Nov 2012, 16:26 pm
@Heavens Game-208:
Chill man
Get a dictionary
1 Nov 2012, 16:27 pm
@ryecatcher-215:
oh no you didn’t!
1 Nov 2012, 16:27 pm
@Finfan-210:
Dont tell Sheriff ANYTHING
1 Nov 2012, 16:28 pm
@nama1-217:
Who’s going to be named the winner here: The group who looted the most money or those who looted less?
1 Nov 2012, 16:28 pm
@nama1-217: Sorry.Thieves are thieves.
1 Nov 2012, 16:29 pm
@Dawn-218:
1 Nov 2012, 16:29 pm
@nama1-211: that is nothing compared to what’s in the Apartheid grand corruption document.All that stuff is dealt with and much much more.
1 Nov 2012, 16:30 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-220: Hello Bakkies.LOL
1 Nov 2012, 16:32 pm
@Dawn-219: Hey… Wench. Care to have a go at defining “Transformation”?
I see Nama has sh.at himself and copped out…
Maybe you too…
1 Nov 2012, 16:33 pm
@wnbb-203:
White South Africans are so evil aren’t they?
Change the record son… Humanity as a whole has a history of violence and the struggle for power. Every continent has had it’s wars. Some continents developed faster than others and conquered other continents. Europe conquered Africa because they developed faster technologically. Had Africa been at the helm of technological development, they would conquered Europe and/ or other continents. Same goes for South America, Australia and New Zealand.
Violence and the struggle for power is a HUMAN trait. Not a white trait.
1 Nov 2012, 16:34 pm
@nama1-222: They are all corrupt,but the reason,especially the Grand Corruption report,is to dispel the notition that the apartheid government was not corrupt.
1 Nov 2012, 16:35 pm
@wnbb-229: notion
1 Nov 2012, 16:35 pm
@Heavens Game-205:
But you have always got that right. They are as superficial and empty and flaky and airy -flary like the consumed wine in their wine bottles.
They are so deceitful they will “TRANSFORM” a much devalued ‘Kerrie Beker’ into a World Cup Trophy as they have attempted since late Sat.
Enjoy ribbing the empty-headed morons as I have to be off. Miami Vice calls and it is a mere 65 miles south.
The problems are Black
The problems are White
The problems are not Dynamite.
1 Nov 2012, 16:35 pm
@Heavens Game-227:
I have disadvantaged eddycation
I know not of definitions of transformations
1 Nov 2012, 16:36 pm
@nama1-222: Maybe the more “transformed” group…
1 Nov 2012, 16:37 pm
@Dawn-232: So how the h.ell are you ever going to “Transform your mind” doodums?
1 Nov 2012, 16:38 pm
@wnbb-225:
I am trying to access it as we speak. Ran into some problems earlier with Adobe.
Strange how people now feel that the corruption back then was somehow not so bad because of the scale of corruption today.
The mind boggles.
1 Nov 2012, 16:39 pm
@ET.-231: Hehe… Cheers… Enjoy. Say huzzit to Horatio Kane if you see him…
1 Nov 2012, 16:39 pm
@the authority-228: I am not against any people,bud.I only deal in facts.I have given Sheriff references to documents and reports only.I had no involvement in any of those reports,so maybe you should direct your anger somewhere else.
1 Nov 2012, 16:40 pm
@wnbb-229: No one ever said the apartheid goverment was not corrupt. The existing government just took all possible learnings from them and then made a highly significant step-change improvement. One of their few achievements and they can’t even brag about it openly. Quite sad actually.
1 Nov 2012, 16:40 pm
@ET.-231:
You two kissed and made up again?
Sweet man!
1 Nov 2012, 16:42 pm
@Heavens Game-233: I have a short attention span.The strains of” duelling banjo” grow louder in my head.Good
night
1 Nov 2012, 16:44 pm
@nama1-222:
hehehe
you joke but i think its a sad irony that the new lot frame the old lot as being the absolute worst because, even though they stole far less, they were thieves AND racists to boot, whereas the new lot, even though they are stealing far more, are (in ET’s words) paragons of’ NON-RACIALISM’… and that is all they need to know…
thats just one of the comic absurdities of todays world hey, truth stranger than fiction and all that…
@ryecatcher-223:
to quote Kwagga,
his b.ullshit to logic ratio is astonishing
@ryecatcher-226:
comic relief… loving it…
1 Nov 2012, 16:44 pm
@nama1-235: @the authority-228: To calm you down,maybe I should mention that the apartheid document touches on post-apartheid corruption as well.The point is bud,that we the ordinary citizens always get screwed by these people and the elite of society.Read that document and you’ll see my point.
1 Nov 2012, 16:45 pm
@wnbb-242: not for you Nama.my bad.
1 Nov 2012, 16:45 pm
@Heavens Game-234:
No-one can transform my mind, babes
Many have tried, many have failed
1 Nov 2012, 16:45 pm
“The problems are Black
The problems are White
The problems are not Dynamite.”
My, my ET is actually a moderate pacifist.
1 Nov 2012, 16:45 pm
@Heavens Game-227:
I’ve asked you about three times now to tell us what YOU understand under transformation but you are deflecting of course. Nothing new there.
@the authority-228:
Nobody is saying that.
Get that chip off your shoulder.
@Heavens Game-233:
You mean the “transformed group” are the best at something at last?
GO transformation.
1 Nov 2012, 16:46 pm
@katman-207:
With pleasure. We seem to be having Internet connection problems here, so bear with me.
How are you? Have you recovered from that devastating defeat? Are you going to throw your weight behind the Kings?
Mate, this is not about you and me as individuals. The statistic refers to the national reality.
Whites had political and economic power but only economic power now. So I guess the reporter – think eNCA wanted to highlight that aspect. As a proud white male are you doing your part to retain economic power?
Are you trying to suggest that kullid people shared in Apartheid spoils?
1 Nov 2012, 16:46 pm
@wnbb-242:
Are you another one of those preaching from a million miles away?
1 Nov 2012, 16:47 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-241: Bakkies.You old cynic.Good night
1 Nov 2012, 16:47 pm
@nama1-211:
Nice one; will look into this a bit more…
1 Nov 2012, 16:48 pm
Lighten up chaps!These okes made you believe they were fighting to preserve the volk,but in the mean time they were filling their deep pockets for their own personal use.
1 Nov 2012, 16:50 pm
Khoi San Rule: Play fair, or we take our share. Western/Northern Cape will defend itself against Zulu imperialism.
1 Nov 2012, 16:53 pm
http://dspace.cigilibrary.org/jspui/bitstream/123456789/31239/1/APARTHEIDGRANDC2.pdf?1
1 Nov 2012, 16:54 pm
@KeurboomPark-252: The warrior heirs of Shaka will defeat you.Go and cower in a cave and do some painting.
LOL
1 Nov 2012, 16:54 pm
@Dawn-239:
They do have their little Lambie to think of.
@wnbb-243:
No probs.
1 Nov 2012, 16:56 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-241:
True Bakkies.
It is damn sad.
1 Nov 2012, 17:02 pm
@Finfan-210:
Replied earlier but disappeared.
That was actually a humiliation; boys against men and the boys triumphed
It’s the stuff that nightmares are made of
1 Nov 2012, 17:02 pm
@ryecatcher-240: Consider yourself Delivered… cheers
1 Nov 2012, 17:06 pm
@ryecatcher-249:
cheers, boet.
1 Nov 2012, 17:08 pm
@nama1-246: I asked first… and I asked because I actually got no idea WTF it means?
And no I am not asking about the verb transform…
I am asking about “Transformation”… More of a noun the way it is gooi’d about by the likes of you and the lilly livered liberals trying to impress the likes of you… As long as “Transformation”, whatever it is, does’nt happen in their back yards of course…
“Transformation”… as in Grand “Transformation” maybe?
Care to try now that I have attempted to narrow it down a bit maybe…?
1 Nov 2012, 17:09 pm
I mean that try that Juan de Jongh scored was absolutely sensational; the celebration equally spectacular!
1 Nov 2012, 17:09 pm
so the 2nd most like sports celebrity in kiwiland is a saffa?
what would Poops say?
1 Nov 2012, 17:10 pm
@KeurboomPark-252: AmaZulu have fcked you up forever and a day from days before Van Riebeck and yonder before even…
Now they have their rightful place as Kings of the South…
1 Nov 2012, 17:13 pm
@the authority-228:
exactly.
i always try to make the point to people that white europeans were actually the underdogs for most of their history and only very recently came to dominate the rest of the worlld.
there was a time when huns, mongols, romans, carthaginians and perhaps others were the dominant cultures/peoples and who at various times threatened the very existense of the different germanic groups which in time went on to seed and form the backbone of the WASP peoples who are today so dominant.
one could even go far enough back in history to egyptian slave ships which raided parts or the european coastline and perhaps further inland. or closer in time to those filthy barbary pirates who routinely raided the european coastline and captured and carried europeans off into slavery as late as the 19th century still.
this is the story of humankind as you say and has gone on for as long as humans have existed.
1 Nov 2012, 17:13 pm
@Dawn-244: Come to daddy, hunnybuns… I will try my best…
We can make it our very own naughty journey…
1 Nov 2012, 17:14 pm
@Heavens Game-258: Goodnight HG.No
“squealing like a pig”for me.Ever.
1 Nov 2012, 17:14 pm
@Heavens Game-263:
Delusional
You are funny!
1 Nov 2012, 17:15 pm
There is nothing like a planned move that comes off
They picked the moment and execution was perfect- what joy to see that, what lovely occasion to do just that!!
Fleckie says they practised that move over and over
1 Nov 2012, 17:15 pm
@ryecatcher-266: Lol
1 Nov 2012, 17:16 pm
ok i’m out for now
cheers
1 Nov 2012, 17:17 pm
@Heavens Game-260:
Remember, after our exit from the RWC you said, (I paraphrase here): “Maybe it IS time for our rugby to transform or for the government to intervene in rugby affairs.”
I asked you back then what you meant by that comment. You failed to answer me.
Maybe you can tell me now what you meant when you made that comment.
1 Nov 2012, 17:22 pm
I like Keegan Daniel – great player!
Nice touch there in the end, congratulating our boys and wishing his fans a lovely Krismis
Now I don’t observe that pagan festival – why? Purely because it’s of pagan origin – can provided detail if needed. But I know what he meant and he meant well – the time of the year when families get to together and share gifts etc.
It will be a decidedly BLEAK one this year in those parts; they were pretty sure they had this one wrapped up and it somehow slipped through the cracks
1 Nov 2012, 17:22 pm
I think everyone wearing a WP top and supporting WP could see that move coming……,,but the guppies and their supporters wearing cheap mr price outfits could not.
1 Nov 2012, 17:24 pm
@nama1-271: Maybe I did, maybe I didn’t… If I did then maybe I should have used the word “change” instead so as not to confuse you “Transformation” Gestapo groupies or get you too excited….
What I was actually referring to there was for the government to obliterate/annihilate SARU as an organisation… Now if Grand Transformation, the type which excites you, of course, is actually about obliteration or annihilation then I have learnt something new from you, never mind that it was in a round about teach myself type of way… For that I thank you…
Outcomes based education at its best… here on Keo…
1 Nov 2012, 17:24 pm
@Heavens Game-263:
AmaZulu fucked up the Nama people?
1 Nov 2012, 17:25 pm
Eben Etzebeth at one point looked like he was 3.03m
What a player!!!
Demetri Catrakilis was super sensational; you would be forgiven to think Dan Kara was playing for Province
1 Nov 2012, 17:27 pm
Later fellas
Province stole that game from Saarks like a ‘thief in the night’
1 Nov 2012, 17:28 pm
Lambie must come to Cape Town. He’s a nice boy. The moslem girls love him so much.
1 Nov 2012, 17:29 pm
@Heavens Game-274: But then again, I suspect the reason why Nama hasn’t ventured a definition is because he got no idea WTF “Transformation” actually is…
Either that or he hesitates about the truth of “Transformation”…
or
He is kakscared of being intellectually annihilated when he does care to venture a little explanation of a “subject” he obviously considers himself an expert…
1 Nov 2012, 17:31 pm
@Heavens Game-279:
Transformation is like when polygamists realize they are disgusting, and they turn to God. Kyk weer, Peedo.
1 Nov 2012, 17:31 pm
@nama1-275: Naah, I reckon the Nama people fcked themselves up all on their lonesome…
One big collective PK to themselves…
1 Nov 2012, 17:34 pm
@KeurboomPark-280: Aha… [lightbulb on]… you mean like when sauerkraut lickers decide bratwurst actually tastes better after all…
1 Nov 2012, 17:36 pm
@Heavens Game-282:
No comment. I rest my case. Koebaai.
1 Nov 2012, 17:42 pm
Rugby a reflection of nations’ true colours
What do the two – mainly white – teams contesting the Rugby World Cup final tell us about their home countries?
The Guardian
The Guardian, Tue 16 Oct 2007 09.58 BST
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England
The team holds up a mirror to modern Britain
When France won football’s World Cup in 1998, their players were acclaimed for providing a snapshot of their country’s multicultural make-up: there were men not just from all regions of the country, from the industrial north to the sun-drenched south, but from many ethnic minorities, with parents from Algeria, Guadeloupe, Ghana, Senegal, New Caledonia, Martinique and other outposts of empire. This was a France dreamed of by optimists. Something similar can be said, curiously enough, of England’s rugby team.
A lot of English people have discovered a new interest in rugby over the past couple of weeks, and many of them are still being fed the line that the game is the preserve of the middle classes and above. The presence of Prince Harry at the Stade de France on Saturday, wearing an England replica shirt just as he did when they won the title in Sydney’s Telstra stadium four years ago, probably did nothing to undermine that old perception. Nor did the shoals of investment bankers, city lawyers and property developers buying black-market tickets on the internet, packing out the Eurostar and sunning themselves in the pavement cafes of Saint-Germain-des-Prés before heading up to the match.
This is the caricatured rugby public of Twickenham and the Harlequins rugby club, of the annual Varsity match and the sort of rugger-bugger social antics that define a certain kind of endlessly braying, terminally boorish Englishness. Such things still exist, in pockets. But if this World Cup can achieve anything beyond the handing out of medals to the winners, it will be to take a wrecking ball to a stereotype of the game’s ambiance that may once have contained a certain truth but is now, as a working definition, utterly obsolete.
Born at the public school from which it took its name, rugby is still a game of class distinctions – but not always along straightforward lines. In Wales, although essentially classless, it was embraced by coal miners and steel workers and helped to create their communal identities; in Scotland it belongs to the good schools and the professions. In England, however, rugby means different things to different people. No doubt the Harlequins, whose ground is across the road from Twickenham, still draw a significant proportion of their support from a constituency of Barboured and hip-flask-toting lawyers, accountants and estate agents. But in Gloucester, where the current England captain Phil Vickery made his name, and in the rest of the west country, the packed crowds demonstrate a raw ferocity closer to that found in soccer stadiums in the days before gentrification. In those territories, as well as a few others around the country, it is the people’s sport.
And of all the major rugby-playing nations, England is the one whose national squad perhaps ranges most widely in its social, cul-tural and geographical diversity. Without rugby, some of them would have no means even of encountering each other. This is one reason why the team’s gathering success over the past few weeks – based on a collective psychological momentum born of a shared history among the core members and a desperate desire to rise up from a humiliating opening phase – has been so striking and impressive. Perhaps to an even greater degree than the champions of 2003, the members of this squad will share a precious private knowledge for the rest of their lives.
But this is not like a regiment going into battle with an officer class and other ranks bound together by mutual self-preservation in the face of mortal danger. The captain of this team is a Cornish farm boy proud of a childhood spent up to his knees in cowshit. Another member of the squad, and a previous captain, is Lawrence Bruno Nero Dallaglio, an Italian ice-cream salesman’s son who went from a prep school in Surrey to Ampleforth college, the Catholic boarding school in north Yorkshire, and whose 19-year-old sister Francesca, a ballet dancer, was killed in the Marchioness tragedy. Dallaglio added another piece to the squad’s representation of a social jigsaw when, in 1999, he was stitched up by the News of the World after being secretly filmed making claims about having dealt cocaine during his youth.
There is another sharp contrast between two of the team’s speed merchants. Paul Sackey, whose parents came to Britain from Ghana, went to a rugby-playing school and now spends his hours away from the game finding exotic automobiles for Premiership footballers. Jason Robinson, who also captained the side a couple of years ago and led the squad on to the pitch on Saturday night in recognition of his 50th appearance for the team, was born in Chapeltown, Leeds, the son of a white mother and a Jamaican father he never knew. A fondness for drink and nightlife threatened to put an end to his career as a rugby league prodigy until, influenced by a fellow player, he became a born-again Christian who now eschews nights out with his team-mates in favour of a takeaway pizza and Bible study in his hotel room.
Robinson’s status among the players is proof that this squad can absorb a player from any background, although the English game has yet to be penetrated by a significant number of participants from the Asian communities. He is practically worshipped by those, including Jonny Wilkinson, who know that he possesses skills to which none of them can aspire. And he experienced few difficulties when he walked into an alien changing room back in 2001.
“The stories had gone before me about what I used to be like in my wild days,” he once told me, “but they had a respect for my ability to play rugby. It was like starting a new school. They’d been together for a few years and I was just coming in. I had to make sure that my attitude was right, and I think I did. I knew I could learn a lot from those guys, and I think vice versa. So it was no problem at all. Colour didn’t come into it.”
It is Robinson, after growing up against a background of Britain at its ugliest, who sums up the ethos of a squad which, now coached by a former schoolteacher from Widnes, reflects the contemporary reality of its sport by presenting itself as the antithesis of a socially exclusive club. “You’re in the huddle before the game,” he says, “you’re looking at the guys you’re playing with, and you’re thinking, ‘I don’t want to be anywhere else.’”
Richard Williams
South Africa
You only need to look at the team to see there’s work to do
Look at a picture of South Africa’s rugby team and it is hard to sidestep a rather embarrassing conclusion: doesn’t look much like South Africa, does it? Or rather, it looks all too much like a different South Africa, the old one, when rugby was run by white men for white men (with perhaps a fleet-footed, dark-skinned wing recruited for the sake of appearances).
This unsettling portrait – basically unchanged after 15 years of “non-racialism” – is prompting South Africa’s politicians to lace up their big boots. Suddenly, affirmative action has become real, and from 2008, politicians say that two-thirds of the national rugby team must be black. When that happens, well, there will be a temporary dip in performance (because so few black players have been brought on to an international level), and a lot of whining, but clearly, it is a change that is overdue.
But what about this lot? Aside from sublime play from one of the team’s two black players, Bryan Habana, is there anything to celebrate about South African rugby? Has anything really changed since the bad old days?
In 1995, when South Africa won the World Cup, I tried and failed to break a 21-year habit of wishing the worst for them. On the one hand, there was Nelson Mandela in a green- and-gold shirt and embracing Springbok captain Francois Pienaar. But on the other, there were the team-mates of Pienaar’s who unambiguously represented the old order – for instance, one of them had been arrested for spewing out a stream of racist invective and seriously assaulting a black teenager in a nightclub. And behind them, as president of the South African Rugby Union, was the grotesquely gloating Louis Luyt, an apartheid-backing tycoon who treated the game as his personal fiefdom.
Luyt then appointed as national coach the incompetent Andre Markgraaff – soon dismissed for raving about “******* *******”. He was replaced by Carel du Plessis, a coach with no qualms about picking the hooker Henry Tromp, who had been jailed for beating a black labourer to death. And even after this lot were gone, the old breed kept popping up – such as the prop Toks van der Linde, who had to be ordered home during a tour for calling a black South African woman a “****** girl”.
The root causes of all this are fairly straightforward: rugby was first brought to South Africa by an English clergyman in 1861, but by the 1880s it was already attracting an enthusiastic following among young Boers, and throughout the 20th century it was the prime passion and pastime in Afrikaner life. It epitomised a certain approach to life; it became synonymous with the particular brand of machismo associated with the Afrikaner male. When democracy arrived in 1994, Afrikaners had to adapt more than their English-speaking compatriots, who had wider options when it came to emigration. Afrikaner privileges were eroded, their schools integrated, their sense of personal security challenged, their destiny questioned. But rugby remained a constant – the one part of life that could still bind and give hope. And there was a reluctance to share it.
Ironically, rugby is also a game with deep roots in black South Africa. For several decades rugby has been the number one sport among Africans in the Eastern Cape, with strong bases in the so-called coloured townships of Cape Town and Johannesburg. In apartheid days, black players had two choices: either collaborate by playing for teams approved by the white establishment, or play within leagues sanctioned by the anti-apartheid South African Council on Sport, whose lack of fields, facilities and expertise made for a relatively low level of competition. Not a brilliant choice, but at least there were black players out there, and when apartheid crumbled, it should, on paper, have been a fairly simple task to seek out young black talent to improve that portrait of an almost all-white team in a country that is 78% black African (and that figure does not include Asian and mixed-race Africans). Yet it never happened. It turns out – as South Africa has learned in so many arenas – that previously racist institutions can be difficult to change. Instead, most of the black players who emerged were products of elite schools, and they were a rarity who seldom rose beyond the provincial shallows.
While it would easy to blame the likes of Jake White, the Springbok coach, for not including more black players, the fact is that if the team is chosen on merit alone, there just is not, for whatever reasons, the talent available. Among the black potentials, only Habana and his fellow winger, the former Cape gang-member JP Pietersen, were deemed worthy of the final cut – and it is also worth mentioning that in old apartheid parlance, Habana and Pietersen are “coloured”, rather than black. In South Africa, this has real significance: there are still no players coming from the most oppressed sections of South African society.
And yet, for all this, there is a different feel about the 2007 squad from the squad of 1995. Perhaps it is just the gusto of their national anthem singing, the deep sense of camaraderie, the absence of any obvious racists among them, and, dammit, the way they play: so much more expansive and creative than the old days. It is hard not to get ecstatic about the play-making brilliance of Fourie Du Preez and those breathtaking Habana runs.
In the late 1990s, South Africa’s finance minister happily announced he would be backing the All Blacks against the Boks. Today, the deputy president Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka, cracks jokes with the team and they all laugh along with her. Maybe something really has changed.
I did an entirely unscientific vox pop of black South African friends yesterday and every one of them said they would be yelling for the Boks. One of these black friends, admittedly from rugby-mad Port Elizabeth, gushed: “People everywhere are wearing the green and gold jerseys – even the workers in the garage – and the shebeens are screening the matches. Everyone in the country supports them – but we just wish they could find a few more black players.”
Come Saturday, I will be hoping the South Africans do the double on the English. And then? It will be time for the politicians and their move to compulsory quotas to do what 15 years of voluntarism have failed to achieve – a South African team that reflects the new South Africa.
1 Nov 2012, 17:43 pm
@Heavens Game-281:
…or maybe they were fucked up in that chemical war between themselves and the new arrivals.
First time use of weapons of mass destruction on the African soil.
1 Nov 2012, 17:46 pm
@David-28: David, these Supersport Robbers would be able to finance transformation in sport at all levels by using their ‘reconnection fees’ as feeders to the trans programmes.
And when the cash runs short, they just cut the service quicker.
Wish there was competition to these guys. Wonder if that other satelite/cable station ever got going? Not much marketing
1 Nov 2012, 18:39 pm
Transformation
1. Beast Mtawarira (Zim Black)
2. Chilliboy Rallapele (RSA Black)
3. Coenie Oosthuizen (RSA White)
4. Eben Etzebeth (RSA White)
5. Andries Bekker (RSA White)
6. Schalk Burger (RSA White)
7. Juan Smith (RSA White)
8. Pierre Spies (RSA White)
9. Enrico Januarie (RSA Coloured)
10. Johan Goosen (RSA White)
11. Raymond Rhule (Ghana Black)
12. Jean de Villiers (RSA White)
13. Juan de Jongh (RSA Coloured)
14. Bryan Habana (RSA Coloured)
15. Gio Aplon (RSA Coloured)
You people choose a team like this, SA win everybody happy.
1 Nov 2012, 18:43 pm
Transformation in rugby:
“A complete alteration of the appearance or character of South African rugby”.
Appearance – being more reprensentative of the majority of the people of South Africa.
Character – changing the mindsets of of white South Africans…. Coaches, administrators and fans alike that view rugby as a symbol of white supremacy.
1 Nov 2012, 18:53 pm
@mxhosa-288:
As a white South African, I embrace transformation in rugby along with all other South African sports… Sports bring people together and if all South Africans are represented, then all South Africans will have a reason to support.
BUT…
Transformation must be done for the right reasons and in the right tone.
If the powers that be are too arrogant and cut white representation in the team too strongly, then South African rugby will lose it’s white support and the goal of unity through sport will have failed.
I have faith however that the administration in charge of our rugby will handle things in more or less the right way and we will move towards a healthy transformation.
Go Springboks. Go South Africa!
1 Nov 2012, 19:16 pm
@mxhosa-288:
“symbol of white supremacy” se gat!
I am a coloured, and we are rugby through and through. What do you call Bafana beffokke? Black supremacy.? People like winners. The Bokke are winners, finish en klaar. The issue is about access. There is progress in the twonships on gennerating more rugby. Our women’s team donates money and raise funds for Langa school rugby. But this is the Western Cape. The money isn’t stolen.
1 Nov 2012, 20:10 pm
@wnbb-284: Interesting article. Didn’t know JP Pietersen was in a gang, although who knows whatever that means, maybe he stole a chocolate bar once or maybe he killed someone. Nor about Henry Tromp although a quick Google search seems his name is brought up every time there is an article about black/white in rugby.
I found an article that included Tromp and they also mention Molatana, who became a commentator after one game for the Boks. Can someone tell me, and please don’t call me racist, I’m just a naive Kiwi, who is the black commentator who was talking to Conrad Smith and called him Corey Jane?
1 Nov 2012, 20:20 pm
@wnbb-284: Brilliant
1 Nov 2012, 20:21 pm
@Kaizan-289:
We live in abnormal society, unfortunately. SA rugby’s past is riddles with racism and some of those people who might have viewed rugby as a whites only sport are still involved in the game. Transformation shouldn’t be about numbers (besides how many black Bakkies, Etsebeths can we realistically produce?). It should rather be about changing mindsets. Black people cheer just as loudly if the try is scored by Habana, Mvovo, Bismarck or Jacque Fourie…. They’re all springboks.
Last year the Ithembelihle High School coach tried arrange games between his team and other mostly white schools… He was flatly told that “******* kanie rugby speel nie”. Now these are high school coaches, coaching impressionable 16 to 18 year olds. And chances are they have one or two black players in their teams.
The problem is that, in the last ten years South Africa has won two u19, two u21 WC, with very representative teams… Whilst the majority of white players from those teams have gone on to play SR and international rugby, only a handful of the black players have had that privilage.
Another problem with SA rugby mentality is the bigger is better ****. In any other country, Keegan Daniel and to a lesser extent Robert Ebersohn would going on the EOYT. Here Jaco Taute and JJ Engelbrecht, Jacques Potgieter, Arno Botha are viewed to be better than JdJ and KD simply because they’re are bigger.
If we can get that right, only then will have true transformation… Not playing numbers, but SA rugby where everyone has a chance to compete on an equal footing, regardless of colour, size, what school thet went to or whether or not the father/uncle played for the springboks…
1 Nov 2012, 20:57 pm
@mxhosa-293:
I agree.
Its frustrating for white people too that there are still some old school racists in SA rugby at all levels. I guess my worry is that SARU will react emotionally to the few racists by punishing white people as a whole. This would be a mistake imo.
I think things will come right with time. Economic development in black communities is as important as developing rugby. Once we have the right structures in place and black communities have the same opportunities as everyone else, we will see more black rugby stars. I know how much talent there is in our black communities and am looking forward to the day these guys start getting an equal chance.
1 Nov 2012, 21:03 pm
@mxhosa-288: @Kaizan-294: Okay cleva boys… Lets see…
Since “The South African Rugby Union says it has committed to a transformation plan that will for once properly measure its success and failure on this issue.”
How do you think SARU will measure its success or failure on Transformation…
That is, what measures are used for Transformation particularly regarding rugby…
And what measure would you for exaple use to gauge “changing the mindsets of of white South Africans…. Coaches, administrators and fans alike that view rugby as a symbol of white supremacy.”…
I mean if you can define Transformation then surely you can measure it?
1 Nov 2012, 21:07 pm
We can only dream Kaizan… I doubt there will reaction from SARU though. Besides they can’t afford to. They can’t exactly bite the hand that feeds them.
1 Nov 2012, 21:08 pm
@Kaizan-294: “Once… black communities have the same opportunities as everyone else”….
Who is “everyone else”?
Hmmm, my lilly liberal nimby radar khala impela…
1 Nov 2012, 21:16 pm
I reckon my crocodile Tears for Fears for “black communities” bullshitometer just broke ….pukile….
1 Nov 2012, 21:21 pm
@Heavens Game-298:
Go back to your 14 year old hippo, vuilbek
1 Nov 2012, 21:32 pm
@KeurboomPark-299: Hippo? Whats that… a new term for an overweight d.yke?
Darling, let me put you straight … Although I do have lezzy tendencies I do not like fatcows… Never have.
But, if you of reasonable mesomorphic proportions and look like Kate Beckinsale then come to Doctor HG and get cured of that big sausage allergy once and for all
1 Nov 2012, 21:42 pm
“Dontchalurvit”??
A special thread for our Dawn….. Comprising of, incredibly subtle questioning from Sherlock Sheriff, some rants from ET an nice little extract from The Guardian (circa 2007)and some welcome interventions from Katman and Gunther to lighten this dark place!!
1 Nov 2012, 21:43 pm
blah blah farken farken banshee wannabee impi booom boom boom homoerotic bully
1 Nov 2012, 21:50 pm
You are transformed by the= 2nd inhalation of Zol is exhaled. Oh the feeling.
Stand back road to Damascus,
1 Nov 2012, 22:10 pm
@KeurboomPark-302: @ryecatcher-303: You both have some serious issues to work through. I do understand though. Enjoy the healing process.
1 Nov 2012, 23:49 pm
@Finfan-304: Hey Finfan.Mysurrealismusrrealism not working???
2 Nov 2012, 00:02 am
@ryecatcher-305: It does. It depends on the quality and not the quantity. Myimpressionismism is the best though.
2 Nov 2012, 03:13 am
@Heavens Game:
How do we measure the success of transformation?… Firstly by how much additional support it gains from South Africans who currently dont support the Springboks. Secondly, by how well the team performs (transformation could potentially lead to short term poor performances if executed incorrectly).. And Thirdly, by how much it is embraced by white South Africans… No one is saying that transformation in rugby will finish with full marks by those standards, but at least those are the standards (in my view).
There are issues in South Africa bigger than rugby boet.. Dont underestimate how far a national sports team can go to help bring people together. A common team to support can help unite people where there is currently tension.
South Africa is changing whether you like it or not. Embrace change boet. You either have equality in South Africa along with a team which all race groups can support or you have social tension, crime and resentment.
2 Nov 2012, 04:35 am
@Kaizan-307:
Oh what BS, so putting a few more different coloured faces in the Bok line up is gonna stop social tension, crime and resentment. faaak dude go smoke the other tweet!
2 Nov 2012, 06:50 am
A 2 day conference with all SARU Presidents CEO’s Hoskins & Roux with Minister of Sport and countless others and Hoskins states “no details of the plan have been made yet”.
This is so typical of an organisation in denial believing their own releases.
The measurement of transformation is simple.
There is a scorecard for SARU 10 years ago 5 years ago and between us we could do one now in 2012.
Those are details that should be released. Otherwise get the HSRC to do it.
2 Nov 2012, 07:30 am
@Heavens Game-295:
The best way to measure it, would be for all those involved to start viewing rugby players as just that…. When an all black or all white team runs out, the fans are in no doubt that is the best XV players available for that particular team. Black people do not cheer any louder if a try is scored Habana, JJP, Bismarck or Jacque Fourie. They’re all springboks.
When unions put structures and facilities in place so that township youngsters that enjoy the game, who cannot afford to go to former model C and private schools, will have better access to the tools that might help them attain provincial colours. When they initiate a nutritional programme for malnourished black kids who might not otherwise grow to be as big as their privilaged black and white counterparts. When ex boks and provincial players frequent township providing some coaching assistance to these youngsters. When the provincial team culture is introduced to these youngsters at a young age, so that they are under no illusions should they one day go on the make the senior team.
When provincial coaches embrace the smaller more skillful players and actually trust them to deliver… Ridding them of the bigger is better mentality.
Perhaps then will the number of black players in SR and CC increase, thus giving the national coach a greater pool to choose from.
2 Nov 2012, 08:08 am
oocraven noo luyt nabanye ke zange basifuna nathi singamalungisa gqithi ngoba kaloku kwa olaphawu lwesi tsibabhokwe lupha alimfuni umntu womthonyama ngakumbi lo angathobelanga uba sisicaka sabo abo . saphuma kubo thina
2 Nov 2012, 08:42 am
@Kaizan-307: Measuring the “success of Transformation”…. Buzzer.
No, how do you measure “Transformation” not an obfuscation into woolly cotton wool semantic dishonesty?
What measures will be used for “Transformation” in order for SARU to determine failure or success?
You see, when fuzzy faux liberal bullshitt is exposed, the resultant frustration generally does end up with comments such as “South Africa is changing whether you like it or not. Embrace change boet”….
Your comment implies that you reckon South Africa is “changing”…Buzzer… Newsflash… South Africa has changed and always will – for better or worse… Your comment implies that you embrace “change”? WHat change? Transformation? How the fark can you when you have no idea what it means?
Farken Lily Liberal Nimbys… The best measure for Transformation of SA Rugby or SA is how many of these can be lined up against a wall and then shot…
2 Nov 2012, 08:50 am
@Heavens Game-312:
Are you still at it.
2 Nov 2012, 11:06 am
@Heavens Game
Oh excuse me, I had no idea you were a fool. Had I known, I would not have engaged you in the first place.
As you were.
2 Nov 2012, 13:21 pm
I have a question about transformation. It is racism and sexism, all the other Rugby playing nations can scrape together woman’s rugby teams. We are due to play in the 2016 Olympics with a womans 7′s team.I have not seen anybody trying to get the schools to allow girls to play 7′s rugby. SARU are really missing the boat or they just don’t care.
A medal at the olympics is a medal, no matter who wins it.
2 Nov 2012, 17:53 pm
Personally, I have a huge problem with women playing rugby…
And other contact sports like boxing, soccer, etc.
2 Nov 2012, 18:31 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-316:
Why?
I find women soccer quite enjoyable to watch- there are less interruptions as women players do not fall around as often as men, the players are quite skillful, athletic and the game has usually quite a nice flow to it. You also hardly ever find the ego’s and showboating that are so common in top level male soccer. I have never watched women 7′s rugby but reckon it might be quite fun to watch as well.
2 Nov 2012, 19:02 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-316: why?
2 Nov 2012, 19:03 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-316:
S e x?
3 Nov 2012, 10:13 am
@Robzim-317: @SodaJoe-318: Call me old-fashioned if you like but it’s all to do with the femininity of women and being “the fairer ***,” etc and I just don’t appreciate watching them beating or tackling the cr*p out of each other.
Sorry for the pun but “it’s just not cricket”!
@David-319: Nice try but that’s a pastime not “sport”!
3 Nov 2012, 10:44 am
@Finfan-306: Was pissed last night.Release of tension.Apologies all.
3 Nov 2012, 11:02 am
@ryecatcher-321: You mean the night before?
No problem, you’re not the first & definitely not the last to touch the keyboard at the wrong time!
3 Nov 2012, 11:09 am
@BrumbiesBoy-322: Yes indeed.The night before.Thanks.Nevertheless one does feel a sense of dismay over what is said and how it is said.
4 Nov 2012, 00:06 am
Well, this is good news and, if honest and genuine, should be applauded and embraced.
For far too long in South African rugby, ‘transformation’ has been – and is right now – just what the Minsiter says…the vulgar simplification of numbers in the Springbok team.
I have long argued that we’ll only reap the benefits when true transformation – creating equal (as equal as can be in a fundamentally unequal world) opportunities at grassroots level and from thereon in – and then it’s over to merit.
The benefits, of course, are fielding the best possible team, based on merit alone and without giving a fig for social engineering.
Finally, I guess we all appreicate that the flip side of true transformation is selecting the best match day 22 and starting 15 and throwing full support behind the selected squad – even if that squad, and there’s only a miniscule chance of this ever being the case, all happen to have lily white skins or, for that matter, black skins.
Now that’s true transformation.
Over to you, Oregan.
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