No breathing space for Boks
5 Nov 2012
RYAN VREDE, writing from Dublin, says there needs to be some tempering of expectation around the quality of the Springboks’ performances, but not of the expectation of a clean sweep.
Coach Heyneke Meyer isn’t going anywhere, even if the Springboks are blanked on this tour. This will come as a disappointment to a growing number of critics. But Meyer enjoys strong support from the bulk of the men who determine his longevity in the role of head coach, most of whom are sold on his playing philosophy, his vision regarding selection and are sympathetic to his plight in light of a host of injuries to key players.
Meyer has never been able to field his first-choice side because of injuries, and is currently in a position where he is missing three highly experienced players – Bismarck du Plessis, Bryan Habana and Frans Steyn – who, when on form, would make any elite Test side. There are a clutch of other high quality players unavailable as well, further undermining Meyer’s cause, while his quest to secure the services of Japan-based players, most notably Fourie du Preez and Jaque Fourie, was met with a refusal by their clubs.
Meyer is particular concerned about the impotency of his backline, feeling Du Preez and Fourie (Jaco Taute would have shifted to fullback) would have added a special dimension that has been lacking throughout his tenure. His tactics have been under constant fire, but their time spent in the opposition’s 22m compares favourably with the All Blacks, the difference being how clinical the world champions have been in those positions. He choice of flyhalf will be critical to any improvements in this regard, but there needs to be observable gains in the decision-making, innovation and execution of their backline play overall.
In three mid-year Tests, the Blacks put 124 points past a better Ireland side that will front the Springboks in Dublin on Saturday, conceding just 29. It would be laughable to compare the current Springbok side to the Blacks – who I’m sure will be remembered as one of the game’s best – but it does offer us some insight into the strength of the Irish, who also lost to Wales at the Aviva Stadium, drew with France and were comprehensively beaten by England in the Six Nations.
Certainly they will be a formidable opponent in front of a capacity crowd (the Springboks have won just one of the last four matches in Dublin). However, Ireland’s quality has been depleted through the recent withdrawals of Brian O’Driscoll, Rob Kearney and Rory Best, while combative openside Sean O’Brien and experienced back rower Stephen Ferris will be sorely missed. Paul O’Connell expected to lose the race to recover from injury (further expanding the leadership void). Consider also that that prop Cian Healy is struggling with his shoulder and Declan Fitzpatrick is still carrying a concussion sustained last weekend, and Ireland are there for the taking.
There will be the usual threatening rhetoric from Scotland, but surely the Springboks won’t replicate the embarrassing defeat in 2010. Scotland lost all their Six Nations matches, and while they beat Australia in torrential rain in Newcastle in June, the result was more a reflection of the Wallabies’ weakness and inconsistency, which persisted into the Rugby Championship, than it was a new dawn for Scottish rugby.
The sternest Test of the Springboks will come at Twickenham against England. They haven’t lost to Stuart Lancaster’s men in 10 Tests, including three wins in their last three outings at Twickenham, but the quality of this side doesn’t match their predecessors and their injury list is likely to be lengthier by then. They will also face a home side desperate to avenge their 2-0 June series defeat.
The Springboks have won by an average of 19 points in the aforementioned matches, but they will settle for a less emphatic margin if it means they win three from three. Despite what Meyer lacks in quality because of injuries, a tour sweep is still a realistic expectation.
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205 Comments
5 Nov 2012, 05:06 am
So much depends on the first game, but I am going to stick my neck out…..3 0 to Boks on tour.
5 Nov 2012, 05:29 am
Fourie Du Preez my ***.
Im all for giving HM time. He is a very astute rugby brain. I agree with most of his player choices.
But Vrede really dont tell me Fourie Du Preez is going to help spark this backline. That is really a stupid comment. FDP is a box kicker – a kick and chase specialist.
5 Nov 2012, 06:55 am
So it looks like Ireland are also missing 3 of their most influential backline players.
5 Nov 2012, 06:58 am
seems most bok supporters believe we will comfortably roll england… if we don’t show them due respect england will bring a black curtain down on the bok season…
5 Nov 2012, 07:02 am
@Mike H-2:
wow, that is such a ridiculous bunch of statements strung together, mikey.
where did you pull these beauts out of… the ether..?..
or your bumhole..?..
you know nothing about fourie du preez
nothing…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V318uMmN5ho
5 Nov 2012, 07:10 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93B6eTZpRYE
5 Nov 2012, 07:18 am
Wanna know the difference between the Boks and the All Blacks?
Since 2003 the Boks have lost NINE EOYT games in Europe. The all Blacks have lost ZERO.
5 Nov 2012, 07:20 am
excuses excuses excuses…..injuries blah blah blah. Injuries and unavailability are part and parcel of being a national coach. Just ask Robbie Deans who still managed to finish second to NZ with essentially a 3rd team of nobody superrugby journeymen posing as wallabies. Im sick and tired of excuses. How can you possibly even mention names like FDP as part of HM’s plans when every tom **** and harry knew the 2011 worldcup was pretty much his (and quite a few others) last hurrah.
Im so over the apologies made on HMs behalf. He’s a national coach, not a super rugby coach which means he simply needs to assemble 15 players from the vast talent pool in the WHOLE COUNTRY. I’m so over this
5 Nov 2012, 07:28 am
@flanka-8:
I agree.
5 Nov 2012, 07:58 am
So FDP is the answer? All that time in the 22 we spend and his box kicks will break down the walls? Whatever. Also, easy for Meyer to only remember the extra ordinary FDP, but what about ordinary one.
I rate the guy as a legend, but not the future. Meyer you need to look forward. It’s called innovation nor replication!
5 Nov 2012, 08:05 am
@The Bill-10: Funny you say that because my last memory of FDP in the green and gold is camping in the wallaby 22 for virtually most of the quarter final against the wallabies with oodles of posession and failing to breach their defence for a try
5 Nov 2012, 08:14 am
i can’t believe the bok squad as a whole and certainly players within it are happy campers…
with heymaker continually making what seem like knee-jerk announcements and pining for unavailable overseas players he must be wreaking havoc with the confidence of players in the squad and super rugby franchises…
what are guys like hougaard, any number of tightheads, bresler etc supposed to think…? it is any wonder why so many seem to be suffering from confidence crises…?
i can’t believe he has not included bresler who has been playing excellent rugby and instead wants to pluck marco wentzel outta the blue… and now saying he wants mujate spits in the face of all our tightheads…
heymaker was quite clear he would not select overseas players unless they were better than the local players… so the message to the local players who have put their hearts and bodies into long super and currie campaigns is…
you are not good enough to play international rugby….!!
and heymaker insists motivating players is his strongest point…!!
go figure…
5 Nov 2012, 08:25 am
@ufo-12:
My thoughts, as well. I really worry about his “paint by numbers” approach to his requirements for each position and where it fits into his gameplan. It becomes a matter not so much what a player must do to improve, but what they must do to fit in with HMs requirements. Essentially it erodes the players individuality.
5 Nov 2012, 08:31 am
@ufo-12:
are they good enough to play international rugby?
theit record does not suggest they are.
ironic its a squad full of ABABP’s who have let him down so far.
5 Nov 2012, 08:39 am
Best thing to happen to these Boks is they get fck’d up 3 – 0 overseas and Heyneke Meyer gets called for the pseudo messiah he is
That will be the best solution to this fiasco unfolding here..
HM is so way overrated and out of his league Ireland and England and perhaps even Scotland can do SA rugby one big favor and send him home packing without a win and we get shot of this palooka and start afresh again.
5 Nov 2012, 08:43 am
I see that Mitchell has been cleared at his disciplinary hearing, and wants to remain as Lions coach.
5 Nov 2012, 08:44 am
No Ferris, no Best, no O’Brien, no O’Driscol, no Kearny, no O’Connel and possibly no Healy. I reckon we’re going to put a bug number past them.
5 Nov 2012, 08:47 am
@David-13:
yeah david… when he was appointed we were told how organised heymaker was and how meticulous he is with his planning… remember matfield on boots n all gushing about how heymaker would have thought of and done everything by the time the first test against england was played… “he will work behind the scenes,” said matfield, “so that by the time the first game kicks off they will be one of the best prepared bok sides…” or words to that effect…
sadly this has proven to be no more than spin from a fan heymaker is contradicting himself almost on a daily basis…
great pity… but no coach will stop me backing the boks 100%… so… go bokke… i sincerely hope we get he clean sweep…
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-14:
of course you are as entitled to your opinion as i am…
imo… the only person who has let heymaker down… is heymaker himself…
like players all most supporters want is consistency from the man… if he explained his plan clearly and stuck to it and we could see him and the boks working towards that i, don’t believe he would be getting any flack right now… but we all support him doing one thing and then he surprises doing something contradictory as if it was always part of his master plan…
and he seems to have a jake white fetish for claiming responsibility for every player who does well…
well… if he was honest he would also claim responsibility and apologise for every player who does not do well… such as jj and pottie…
patronise and treat rugby supporters like fools and you will lose their respect… heymaker has not yet learnt this…
5 Nov 2012, 08:49 am
@David-16:
good for him… i think he got shafted…
fact is… he has got more impressive results with the lions than anyone on their board in their own job descriptions…
but thought he had joined sale…?
5 Nov 2012, 09:02 am
@ufo-19:
I just heard it on 702, so I don’t know the full story.
5 Nov 2012, 09:05 am
@David-20:
thanks david…
pleased for the guy anyway… at least he can now get on with his life and career without this hanging over his head…
5 Nov 2012, 09:11 am
@David-20: Now this I’ve been waiting to hear!
Can’t help but think it’s all been related to shenanigans (sp?) in Port Elizabeth…
5 Nov 2012, 09:14 am
Congrats to the Sharks for winning the interprovincial 7′s tournament!
5 Nov 2012, 09:14 am
@BrumbiesBoy-22:
In what way?
5 Nov 2012, 09:15 am
@Fern-23:
The what
5 Nov 2012, 09:18 am
@BrumbiesBoy-22:
I’ve never been.
Not really a fan of these Irish them pubs with their manufactured bonhomie.
Craic smaic.
5 Nov 2012, 09:39 am
@David-24: I wish I knew.
But I’m pretty sure that Mitchell came to this country on the proviso that he would coach a Super Rugby team where he felt he could be of the most benefit, and maybe during all the delays, allegedly caused by the unions, they were trying to force a Lions/Cheetahs merger with JM being head coach, a position which IMO he wasn’t happy with & that is where the trouble started.
5 Nov 2012, 09:48 am
Backline is impotent because of Jean de Villier’s lack of penetration skills,play comes to a halt every time the ball reaches him,same problem at the Stormers,look at how much better the WP backline functioned without him.Is obvious,JdV is the problem.
5 Nov 2012, 09:52 am
@BrumbiesBoy-27:
I reckon a Lions/Cheetahs merger would be a boon for JM, with the talent available to him.
5 Nov 2012, 09:53 am
@gunther-26:
that’s a long way to go for an irish themed piss up ,and in PE of all places.
Craic smaic = smelly crack ?
5 Nov 2012, 10:03 am
@ufo-18:
yes, we clearly have different opinions on the matter.
personally i feel as let down, if not more so, by the players than i do by HM. at the end of the day the buck stops with the players on the pitch, and these players did not deliver when it mattered.
as far out as pdivy’s coaching or non coaching approach may have been, the players still stood up at the end of the day and gave everything and more.
can we say the same for heyneke’s ABABP’s
blaming the coach is easy, the players are the ones who have to go out and play the game.
5 Nov 2012, 10:12 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-31: That is all good and well, but there has been a great deal of inconsistency in selections which meant that the team has been unable to settle. Some of that has been injury enforced for sure but some not.
Add to that HM’s inconsistent statements and selections not reflecting that and you have a squad that probably isn’t experiencing too much of a settled feeling right now.
5 Nov 2012, 10:13 am
@David-16: Lions coach John Mitchell has been cleared of all allegations after charges were withdrawn, with the New Zealander being quoted as saying that his future is in South Africa.
Details at this stage are sketchy but EWN Sport reports that Mitchell wants to remain with the Lions, stating that he wants his position as head coach of the Lions back, adding that there is unfinished business. It is reported that he has been found not guilty of the charges faced and that a further six charges have been dropped, as the team look to next year.
Furthermore, Mitchell has stated that he has no intention of taking a coaching role with the Sale Sharks, even though he has been approached by the club.
5 Nov 2012, 10:16 am
There have certainly been players who have performed under par when picked, Willem Alberts (who’s mediocre form is echoed in his provincial form), Keegan Daniel (who was unable to translate really good provincial form into a half decent international performance), Morne Steyn (he kept being selected by HM in spite of the obvious lack of form and the availability of a good replacement) etc etc.
The fact is, HM is the man and he has gotten off to a less than auspicious start. I hope he starts to get things right, and soon.
5 Nov 2012, 10:17 am
@BrumbiesBoy-22: wtf is your problem?
The charges appear to allege that Mitchell, inter alia:
- used derogatory language towards players
- placed undue pressure on injured players to train and to play
and
- breached the terms of his contract by making unauthorised public statements
now what the f.cuk does this have to do with the Kings?
5 Nov 2012, 10:22 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-31:
so why aren’t the players… in your opinion… standing up…?
if meyer is the great coach, spotter of talent and motivator that so many believe he is… surely this should not be a problem…?
but if the players are to blame in your opinion and not performing… surely meyer is either… selecting the wrong players… not good at motivating the ones he does select… or isn’t able to coach his rugby philosophy to a more diverse group of players…
the other thing that meyer is doing wrong imo… is eventually selecting guys like gio, patrick, elton and juan under apparent duress and expecting them to singlehandedly change the outcome of the half-game or single game he gives them and if they don’t perform spectacularly well then he drops them right out of the squad… young guys don’t need that sort of pressure… especially when they see guys like morne and pottie getting whats seemed like endless opportunities…
we certainly do disagree… the buck stops with the coach imo… he is able to select any fit saffa player that he wants… and if he is picking the wrong players he has only himself to blame…
i mean what the heck is a guy like bressler supposed to think…? next thing he will be playing in europe and people will criticise him for it…?
as we always say… the players don’t select themselves…
5 Nov 2012, 10:22 am
@stormersboy-34: HM has been man enough to admit to his mistakes,let’s hope he has learned from them.I’m concerned about his blood pressure tho’ he seems to be really highly stressed in interviews.
5 Nov 2012, 10:22 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-31: you are talking nonsense!
heyneke meyer is the coach, he is the one barking orders on a walkie-talking DICTATING how our players must play.
at most interviews he’s told us how his gameplan is the shiznit and flawless yet everyone including opposition coaches have seen GLARING holes in how he is coaching our team to play.
take the blinkers off and lay off the kool-aid
5 Nov 2012, 10:25 am
@Transformation-33:
good on mitchell…
not taking the easy way out and seeking a cushier number overseas…
my respect for him just jumped a few notches…
5 Nov 2012, 10:28 am
@stormersboy-32: bakkies trying to excuse heyneke for selecting a guy that is out of his depth like jaque potgieter is just laughable
i guess the blame is on jaque for not executing meyer’s flawless gameplan properly.
5 Nov 2012, 10:30 am
@Transformation-40: Didn’t you hear? It’s the Kings’ fault.
5 Nov 2012, 10:32 am
@ufo-39: don’t know how that will work though as the same players that “complained” are the ones he’ll have to coach, trust and believe in.
5 Nov 2012, 10:33 am
@stormersboy-41:
5 Nov 2012, 10:35 am
@Transformation-42: I think lessons have been learned on both sides,Mitchell is the best hope for the Lions going forward imo
5 Nov 2012, 10:35 am
@stormersboy-32:
@ufo-36:
@Transformation-38:
look, i hear you guys, fair enough.
but just to be clear, are you absolving the players of blame and responsibility in the boks poor performance this year?
perhaps we are all holding different ends of the same stick?
5 Nov 2012, 10:36 am
Speaking of the Keeengs, I see Cheeky has resubmitted his request for more foreign players, but lowering the number from six to three. What is this? Some kind of flea market haggle system? I hope SARU tells the crooked man to go walk a crooked mile.
5 Nov 2012, 10:39 am
@Transformation-42:
i don’t believe it was a spontaneous player-revolt at all…
if it was… why then… at the beginning of the new season…? heck they’d just won the currie cup and given the coach rave reviews a few months before that…?
but that’s part of what i mean by not taking a cushier number… if he goes back to the lions (and if they have him of course) he goes back knowing he has to start again and win the players over… either he knows the ‘problem’ was orchestrated or he believes he can actually win them over again…
either way… says quite a lot about the man’s character imo…
5 Nov 2012, 10:39 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-45: Probably.
My issue with Heineken is the inconsistency of some of his selections, and choices when he does select.
5 Nov 2012, 10:39 am
@Transformation-40:
yes, potgieter failed himself as much as he did the coach. it was easy for the kenners to single him out for his sub standard springbok play yet almost to a man the rest of the ABABP squad have escaped similar scrutiny.
and you lot have the audacity to sing from the ‘look at his inconsistency’ handbook.
5 Nov 2012, 10:41 am
@ufo-47: Or lack of real options elsewhere?
5 Nov 2012, 10:44 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-49: I actually haven’t been thinking of Potgieter at all, for me he is a guy who is good at local level but not good enough for international duty. It’s not his fault, it’s clear that he’s trying. The error is one of selection in his case, not form.
5 Nov 2012, 10:44 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-45:
look… if a player doe snot perform and does not improve he must be held individually accountable… of course he should get dropped…
but all the players should be consistently managed in exactly the same way…
which is obviously not the case at the moment…
5 Nov 2012, 10:46 am
@stormersboy-48:
my problem with the players is their inconsistency in fronting up when the proverbial fan’s well covered and the game plan’s kak.
he has not changed his game plan… ever… (so ther goes half your ‘inconsistency theory’).
lets look at what has changed, the players.
some have been kak, some have been kool, some have been kookwater…
but all have been INCONSISTENT in their play from game to game.
5 Nov 2012, 10:48 am
what these guys have to learn is they have to go into each and every game with a mindset that no matter what, they will prevail.
5 Nov 2012, 10:48 am
@ufo-47: The entire Mitchell saga, IMHO, was initiated by the dumbfucks in the halls of power at Coca Cola Park.
The eejits allegedly ‘running’ the union instigated the entire ‘revolt’, and honestly thought they would get away with it.
Now I see the GLRFU is refusing to release the findings etc etc etc.
Mitchell’s attorney’s are demanding to see the transcripts, and are considering going to court in order to have these documents released.
The man was hoodwinked and hopefully these utter incompetents will pay for it.
Has there ever been as fuckingdoff a union as the Lions?
5 Nov 2012, 10:50 am
@stormersboy-50:
well if sale wanted him… he had at least one other real option… and i’m sure a guy of his calibre would always have various options available to him… (but just my impression… maybe not…)
but still… to go back to the lions when it’s obvious some people at least were out to get him… takes some doing imo…
5 Nov 2012, 10:51 am
@stormersboy-50:
a little bit of all the above i think.
starting all from over again must have weighed on his mind as well perhaps a bit of consideration that he would once again be leaving a team without any real substantive success and what this means for his reputation.
5 Nov 2012, 10:52 am
“London – Gloucester centre Billy Twelvetrees and flyhalf Freddie Burns were added to England’s squad for their upcoming international programme on Sunday.”
Billy Twelvetrees? Will he be standing outside Richard Wigglesworth? Is there anyone in the Shire who is not playing for England?
5 Nov 2012, 10:53 am
@ufo-52:
fair enough, we agreeing to both the players and the coach being held responsible for ‘consistency’.
i’m happy.
5 Nov 2012, 10:56 am
Boks are pathetic especially since now jounalists etc are writing apologetic articles “not to expect clean sweep but more so on education and development of game etc”
What BS.Heyneke apologists all over.Their messiah from 2004
SHould have got ob ahead of White
Should have replaced Jake in 06
Should have got job ahead of PDiv in 08
blah blah blah
Has the job now, less that 50% win ratio.
Oz have worse injury crisis that SA,with lower stocks talent wise and upheaval in camp with young firebrand Cooper and his utterances
Yet they STILL ahead of Boks in rankings.
And now we being dummed down/conditioned to believe Heyneke is not to be questioned and that we shouldnt expect excellence at ALL times from our national team especially IN EUROPE.
Boks could lose every game on this tour.
5 Nov 2012, 10:56 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-55:
yeah… i have no evidence or knowledge of that being the case…
but it has always been my impression that he was set up… because it just would not make sense that players would revolt against a coach who had just brought them their biggest moment of glory… (after years of being ingloriousbastards ) and what for many of them could be their only moment of rugby glory…
i agree absolutely with your post…
5 Nov 2012, 10:57 am
@stormersboy-51:
potgieter needs more coaching on technique and option taking, simply.
at 26 i would say he is very poorly developed in this regard.
5 Nov 2012, 10:57 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-55:
Not convinced about that.
Its not as if Mitchell has left each and every union he’s ever coached covered in glory.
He’s been at the heart of play and administrator revolts since day dot.
5 Nov 2012, 10:58 am
@katman-58:
He’s obviously Native American
5 Nov 2012, 10:58 am
Anyway, I guess there are many takes on this, depending on where you stand, but the fact remains, we have 3 tests to play and I hope we can pull them all off.
Looking forward to them.
5 Nov 2012, 10:58 am
@katman-58:
a first nation american making the big time in england…??
cool name…
5 Nov 2012, 10:59 am
@John Galt-63:
true true
5 Nov 2012, 10:59 am
What are ABABP players?
5 Nov 2012, 10:59 am
@Dawn-64: He’s no Baggins, that’s for sure.
5 Nov 2012, 11:00 am
@ufo-61: Hello pal.Sorry about incoherent
post on Thursday
5 Nov 2012, 11:01 am
@Dawn-64:
it would be good PR for the game to get a few of them, mind you.
or even a few eskimos perhaps.
5 Nov 2012, 11:01 am
Oh well
I’m Dawn Thunderous Sky
5 Nov 2012, 11:02 am
thunderous thigh..?. say what..?..
5 Nov 2012, 11:03 am
@ufo-61: Mitchell was a loose cannon, that the GLRFU couldn’t control. He said what he wanted to, and he shamed them quite regularly with statements he made.
Simply put: he was not a ‘ja broer’, that they could silence at will (unlike a fellow like Johan Ackerman, who fits into the ‘ja broer’ sub-culture those fools have going on up there).
For all intents and purposes it suited the Lions to have a ‘ja broer’, as a loose cannon like Mitchell was going to expose the clowns in some way, shape or form, at some stage. (Comments about the actual management of the union etc).
How they got the players on board is the most relevant question…..and why have half those players already left the union.
Something stinks here, and I hope those documents are made public.
5 Nov 2012, 11:04 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-59:
not at all…
it all begins and ends with the coach… and he must consistently do the right thing and select the right players for the right reason managing all payers is the same way…
morne’s bad form for so many games was not morne’s fault… sure he must individually work on his form… but he is not responsible for selecting himself… the fault was meyer’s for selecting him for so long when is was obvious to all that morne should have been given some time in currie cup to find his confidence and form…
5 Nov 2012, 11:06 am
@ryecatcher-70:
hey rye… how you doing…?
no prob… sometimes i’m very slow on the uptake…
5 Nov 2012, 11:07 am
mshiniwami – The biggest problem with HM is the playing style he is getting the Boks to play, which is a klompie bash game style and no backline moves at all. I have even seen any set moves from a lineout yet!!
Injuries are a perfect excuse for HM but look at how successful White has been with the Brumbies who are full of no names at all!!!
That is the Biggest worry for me, no game plan whatsoever, it is more of a damage limitation style the Boks are playing!! I just can’t see HM lasting, he has shown nothing this year to warrant him being a national coach!
5 Nov 2012, 11:07 am
Vrede – The expectation is ALWAYS for clean sweep up north.
It always has been and hopefully always will be.
Jeepers the expectation is to be number 1, consistently beat Australia and draw back to favourable Win-Loss ratio SA used to have over NZ for 75 years until it was overtaken in 1996. Yes…. the expectation of being unbeaten at home and often winning in NZ too.
Want to know why All Blacks have improved over the Boks in general over the past 15 years? Also the Aussies have a better win/loss during the time period? Because they have continued the expectation of being the best… mediocrity is not accepted. Regardless of injuries…. setbacks….. etc…. did you see the Aussies in their last test match against NZ….?
Anyway…. Meyer must stop making excuses and create a winning pattern of rugby that incorporates SA’s strengths as well as the law changes and the ever changing rugby environment…. Steve Hanson has done that…
5 Nov 2012, 11:07 am
@Dawn-64:
i see a ‘snap’ is in order…
you owe me a drink…!!
5 Nov 2012, 11:07 am
@John Galt-63: We know he has his faults. But, I’m also certain this little ‘revolt’ had far more to do with his outspokeness, than what it did with players having to run an extra 50 laps…..
5 Nov 2012, 11:09 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-74:
yeah… he does not come across as a man who suffers fools gladly… perhaps could be more politik in his style… as every club or union has it’s politiks…
gotta dash…
later all…
5 Nov 2012, 11:10 am
@Dawn-68:
ABABP (Anyone But A Bulls Player)
somehow, the kenners believe this policy will make them stronger… but the evidence suggests it has made them weaker.
5 Nov 2012, 11:14 am
@race of tan-77:
Exactly.
Yet all the journalists say otherwise
And also the overemphasis on attaining momentum on uber attrictional domkrag facets of gameplan.Basically for boks if alberts,bismark,etzebeth dont get momentum/over advantage line off channel 1 when biggest and best defenders ARE.we are fcked
talk about limited
5 Nov 2012, 11:17 am
Charging Rhino – I just can’t see HM turing around his fortunes as a Bok coach?
Look at his temperament in the coach Box with bashing the walkie talkie, that is/was not a good sign for a national coach. A national coach has got to be calm and collective otherwise he starts to feed that anxiety onto the players and then big problems!!
I agree with UFOs statement above, the coach should have seen that Morne’s form had dipped and needed some CC game time or time off to build confidence, player management, something not existent in SA rugby!!
Ff the HM thinks England will be an easy walk over, we are in for a rude awakening!
5 Nov 2012, 11:18 am
@Delki-7: European teams give the AB’s the win before the game even starts.
5 Nov 2012, 11:22 am
@goodstuff-85:
thats what happens when excellence is your mantra,which is what ab’s have conditioned the rest of the world to believe of them and fear them
their record speaks for itself
european sides just happy to have them on their soil and in stadiums let alone “win”
5 Nov 2012, 11:25 am
only thing their record speaks for is orchestrated team wide cheating and dishonesty.
5 Nov 2012, 11:26 am
i have no respect fo that team and i hold them in no regard.
5 Nov 2012, 11:27 am
@Charging Rhino-78:
HMs problem is that he can’t change his approach based on the players available to him. It seems he’d rather select a “like for like” replacement, regardless of proven ability, rather than a different type of player who is in form.
5 Nov 2012, 11:33 am
@David-89:
to what extent do the ozzies or nz’s change their approach based on the players available to them? or do they rather, make the players fit into a playing style?
5 Nov 2012, 11:43 am
@Transformation-35: Read #22 clearly, brightspark…I didn’t say it is, I said I can’t help but think it is.
And as stated by you, “The charges appear to allege…”
Yes, none of know the true facts but I stand by my assumption and unless you (or anybody else) can prove otherwise I remain suspicious of the whole thing.
As you well know, rugby is a man’s game and I most certainly don’t believe any of those hogwash allegations about players running off to the bosses etc.
5 Nov 2012, 11:46 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-90:
I’m referring more to the “like for like” approach. Look at the difference between the different 9s the ABs and Aussies have fielded. The same with the 12 and 13s. In those cases, different skills not a similarity of styles and size is the determining factor.
5 Nov 2012, 11:54 am
@BrumbiesBoy-91: why would you “think” that besides the fact that you’re obsessed with the Kings, ou Imi?
5 Nov 2012, 12:06 pm
Will only get idea of Meyer’s plan when he announces team for Saturday. He should start with Lambie at FH, Jantjies on bench but believe he may put Morne on bench which will be slap in face for Jantjies. De Jongh to start at outside centre, gives us cover at inside centre as well should JdV get injured. Taute has not impressed me in backline and am sorry that either Ludick or Pieterse is not there. Krich’s shelf life has expired.
My biggest gripe is the continual insistence that Goosen is FH of choice going forward. He has not proven himself at top international level (except to show he is injury prone). Lambie should be choice FH going forward, if he is lacking tactical ability it is because he is lacking game time. After Lambie/Jantjies next best youngster is Pollard who at only 19 can be protected and given time to develop. Goosen needs another season, uninjured, at S15 before he can stake a claim again.
5 Nov 2012, 12:17 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-91:
What th f*ck does rugby being a man’s game have to do with players goin to bosses to report Mitchell about his man management style or lack thereof.This is not the first time such has happened and power games are played within rugby teams just like any organisation. Remember David Nucifora and the player revolt at Brumbies?
Mitch had similiar rumblings when he was at AB’s and as well as Force.So please your utterances are more based on subjective innuendo than any semblance of fact.
Man’s game? Jeez correlation there picked out from the stars there
5 Nov 2012, 12:21 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-55: If that is indeed the case, I will be extremely pe*d off.
5 Nov 2012, 12:23 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-74: Something most definitely stinks here.
5 Nov 2012, 12:25 pm
@Transformation-93: Imi?
5 Nov 2012, 12:26 pm
@mshiniwami-95: Like me, you’re entitled to your opinion.
5 Nov 2012, 12:27 pm
@mshiniwami-95: this guy’s nic is Brumbiesboys and he is naive enough to say “As you well know, rugby is a man’s game and I most certainly don’t believe any of those hogwash allegations about players running off to the bosses etc.”
when ANDY FRIEND was fire LAST YEAR after 2 games – where in one of the Brumbies lost to the Rebels – and the players were reported to have revolted against friend.
5 Nov 2012, 12:27 pm
Sorry, should’ve rolled all posts into one.
5 Nov 2012, 12:28 pm
@mshiniwami-95: I have to agree, the Lions players were not happy, so they went to daddy like a bunch of babies. Top of the pile, Strauss ended up leaving to play for the Scots!!!
Mitchell is bloody brilliant coach, stuck with poor unprofessional players.
5 Nov 2012, 12:31 pm
Yo Keo & co, can we have an update on the Mitchell saga ASAP, please.
Thanks
5 Nov 2012, 12:31 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-99: what is your opinion about “PE shenanigans” based on?
pray tell!
5 Nov 2012, 12:43 pm
@Transformation-104: With all the bullsh*te surrounding them that’s gone on this year, don’t you blame me for being just a little bit suspicious about all that emanates from there & SA Rugby?
Cone now, don’t be so naive!
5 Nov 2012, 12:44 pm
I see Graeme Joffe is still having a full go at keo in his columns…
Some rugby journalists may need to “transform” as well as the “Cape Town boys club” are occasionally letting their buddy-buddy relationships get in the way of the facts.
In punting his radio interview with Mark Keohane, Tank Lanning wrote: “Mark Keohane also exposed the infamous Kamp Staaldraad in 2003 and the Geo Cronje/Quinton Davids racism within the Bok squad, which had Rudolf Straeuli fired.“
Tank, not that I want to argue with a former prop but Keohane didn’t expose the Cronje/Davids racism saga. It was in fact Dale Granger at the Cape Argus. Granger even phoned Keohane who vehemently denied it. Hours later SARU put out a press release to pretend that they uncovered racism. SARU and Keohane knew about it all along and therefore condoned it.
The good old spin doctor.
And please Tank, don’t defend a mate who keeps on denying about his “involvement” with the Kings and how his “ex-company, HSM”, are handling the representation of Luke Watson and other players”.
Keohane is still on the payroll at HSM and has represented/managed Watson as an unaccredited SARU agent since the player joined the Kings.
If you were an accredited SARU agent and had been through the entire licensing process, would you be happy with this shady business deal?
5 Nov 2012, 12:46 pm
idiots looking for excuses for this holy white fake messiah
so this twit needs all manner of by clauses to hide behind if he don’t pull off 3 wins overseas
weak Ireland and weak Scotland should be a cake walk.. what the excuses going to be if he fails at those hurdles.. that the players didn’t put their hands up..again?
This messiah supposed to be the ultimate motivational rugby guru on the planet according to some.. so far his record shows he is incompetent in some of the following
1 recognition and identification of talent and form
2. identification and creation of game plan strategy
3. management and coordination of player strengths and combinations
4. directing and addressing new technique and strategy to global game patterns
5. player management – injury prevention
where all this superior rugby acumen gone, under current paradigms this moron makes PdV look like Einstein in rugby comparatives.
5 Nov 2012, 12:47 pm
@mshiniwami-60: @race of tan-77: Agreed gents. The biggest problem for the Boks going forward is Heyneke Meyer himself and his team of clueless sycophants. Nowhere was this more abundantly clear than at Soccer City where the Boks were caught with their pants down against an AB team that would later draw against one of the worst Wallaby sides in history.
Credit Todd Louden for everything the Bulls ever achieved in Super Rugby. Heyneke Meyer has been and will continue to be a failure without quality assistance.
5 Nov 2012, 12:49 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-105: “Cone now, don’t be so naive!” hahahahaha
it is YOUR “opinion”, YOU must back it up with “reasonable” argument and not ascribe “naivety” on my part about something you have NOT even explained!
what in your convoluted mind is the connection between mitchell being suspended and the Kings?
plain, straightforward answer please and don’t ask me to see pies in the sky!
5 Nov 2012, 12:52 pm
Condolences to the Blue Bulls Union, I’ve just learnt that Under-20 forward Nico van Vuuren was killed in a car crash in Komatipoort on Saturday morning.
Seems that a butchery was robbed and after hi-jacking a car the robbers lost control of it and crashed head-on into van Vuuren’s car.
Three of the four robbers also died in the crash and something like R150 000 was recovered.
R.I.P.
5 Nov 2012, 12:54 pm
@skopdiekan-107: Exactly. The guy has been exposed. He’s clearly an awful coach who cant even get one aspect of the job right. He should just quit now if he’s not going to bring in some quality assistant coaching.
5 Nov 2012, 12:56 pm
I’m so bored I could kill something
5 Nov 2012, 12:59 pm
@Superbru-28:
“Backline is impotent because of Jean de Villier’s lack of penetration skills…”
Interesting choice of words.
Does his wife know about his little problem?
5 Nov 2012, 13:00 pm
Yawn
5 Nov 2012, 13:01 pm
Blah
5 Nov 2012, 13:01 pm
Whatever
5 Nov 2012, 13:01 pm
Yeesh
5 Nov 2012, 13:02 pm
Magtag
5 Nov 2012, 13:03 pm
Jinne
5 Nov 2012, 13:06 pm
Zelim Nel on IOL reckons JDJ will start against the Irish.
POSSIBLE TEST TEAM: 15 Jaco Taute, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Juan de Jongh, 12 Jean de Villiers (capt), 11 Francois Hougaard, 10 Pat Lambie, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Willem Alberts, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Juandre Kruger, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Adriaan Strauss, 1 Tendai Mtawarira
5 Nov 2012, 13:11 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-110: My apologies, condolences to his family, friends and the supporters as well.
5 Nov 2012, 13:11 pm
@Dawn-112:
A bottle of Famous Grouse?
5 Nov 2012, 13:13 pm
From Rugby365
The John Mitchell versus Golden Lions Rugby Union saga has taken another intriguing twist, with Mitchell claiming he wants to continue coaching in Johannesburg.
In what appears to be either a dangerous cat and mouse game or a major breakdown in communications, the GLRU and Mitchell’s management company, The Fordham Company, gave contradictory statements about the ‘outcome’ of their long-standing public spat.
Mitchell, who has been under suspension by the GLRU since June, said in a statement – issued by The Fordham Company – that he wants to continue as head coach of the Lions.
This came just days after Mitchell was ‘appointed’ to a rugby strategy management board of the Sale Sharks Premiership club in England.
According the Fordham statement Mitchell was found ‘not guilty of various charges’ levelled against by the GLRU, and that a further six charges have been withdrawn.
The statement also said that Mitchell is committed to continuing in the role of head coach at the Lions, buoyed by news that he has “already been found not guilty of various charges of misconduct” levelled against him by the GLRU.
However, GLRU Chief Executive Ruben Moggee said these are just assumptions made by the Fordham Company.
“I have no idea how they can make a [media] release if they have not even seen the proposal of the [arbitration hearing] chairman [Peter Bam],” Moggee told this website in an exclusive interview.
“It is their prerogative [to make such assumptions],” Moggee added.
The GLRU boss confirmed that they have received the arbitration hearing chairman’s report.
“We can’t comment on that at this stage, we are busy looking at it,” Moggee said, adding: “We will look to issue a media release later in the week.
“They may have made an assumption, because we have it and haven’t forwarded it to them yet, so they may assume he is innocent.
“They can make assumptions if they want.”
John Fordham, the Chief Executive of The Fordham Company, further discombobulated the matter by claiming not to know about Mitchell’s appointment to the Sale Sharks board in England – where the former All Black mentor had been acting in an advisory capacity.
“I am not aware of that,” Fordham told this website in a telephonic interview from Sydney, when asked about the Sale issue.
“What we say in the media release stands, as far as I am concerned, and that is the instruction I have got from John,” he said about the claim that Mitchell did not accept a ‘coaching’ position at the Sharks.
“I am not aware of any of that [the Sale Sharks statement],” the Fordham boss said, adding: “I have not looked at their website and I have no reason to look at their website.
“All I can say is that he was approached by Sale Sharks and our media release makes it very clear he is still employed by the Golden Lions. He [Mitchell] has been under suspension, but he is still employed.
“Since this action [by the GLRU] started, he is still being paid according to his contract.”
Asked what Mitchell was doing in the UK, Fordham said: “I am not aware of that, he could have been over there looking at games or something.
“I think that is irrelevant, because he is employed by the Golden Lions.
“The media release we sent out makes it very clear that he has every intention of continuing there [at the GLRU in Johannesburg.”
The Fordham Company media release in full:
JOHN MITCHELL FOUND NOT GUILTY OF VARIOUS CHARGES; FURTHER
SIX CHARGES WITHDRAWN; NOW ANXIOUS FOR NEWS OF REMAINING FINDINGS
Suspended Golden Lions Rugby Union head coach John Mitchell is committed to continuing in the role, buoyed by news that he has already been found not guilty of various charges of misconduct levelled against him by the GLRU, with a further six charges having been withdrawn by the Johannesburg-based club.
The lengthy enquiry into the charges laid against Mitchell by the GLRU was chaired by an independent legal expert, Mr Peter Bam.
“Even though John has been cleared of these particular allegations, the GLRU, through its lawyers, is not prepared to release details to John or his lawyers,” says Mitchell’s management, The Fordham Company, today.
“That’s pretty amazing considering the damage that this action taken by the GLRU has done to John’s reputation and brand. Furthermore, the GLRU’s lawyers have advised John’s lawyers that they are not prepared to release the findings and recommendations pertaining to the remaining nine charges brought against John unless John agrees to sign a confidentiality undertaking. One would have to question why this information is being withheld”.
Mitchell’s lawyers Edward Nathan Sonnenbergs is continuing to press for full disclosure from the GLRU law firm Erasmus Inc and have threatened an urgent application to Labour Court to secure the findings and recommendations.
In making it clear that he wants to be restored as Golden Lions head coach, Mitchell confirmed today that he has no intention of seeking a coaching position with the UK club Sale Sharks, even though he had been approached by the club regarding the position.
“I want my head coach position back at the Lions,” said Mitchell. “There is some unfinished business to do with the Lions. Furthermore, I am determined that my future will be in South Africa”.
The statement by Brian Kennedy, owner of Sale Sharks, issued last week Wednesday (October 31):
“We are delighted to announce that Bryan Redpath will be taking on the role of Head Coach at Sale Sharks, as from today. His four year contract that commenced this year will stay in force.
“Sale Sharks have formed a rugby strategy management board, which will meet regularly to devise and review the long term rugby strategy. This board will be chaired by Brian Kennedy and consist of the following members: Ian Blackhurst, Steve Diamond, John Mitchell and Bryan Redpath.
“The priority of all the management within Sale Sharks is to get back to winning ways and secure our position in the Premiership. We believe we have the playing and coaching talent and structure to achieve this.
“Beyond this we must plan medium and long term, to compete at the top of the game and this will be the remit of the strategy board.”
By Jan de Koning
5 Nov 2012, 13:16 pm
@katman-120: That’s a well selected side. Hopefully HM goes with it.
5 Nov 2012, 13:17 pm
@Dawn-114: @Dawn-115: @Dawn-116: @Dawn-117: @Dawn-118: @Dawn-119:
From one liners to one word sentences now.
Time a problem?
5 Nov 2012, 13:18 pm
@ufo-123: Props to Rugby365 for squeezing “discombobulated” into an article.
5 Nov 2012, 13:20 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-124: Ja, it’s pretty close to what I’d pick. But I’m not sold on Strauss at hooker.
5 Nov 2012, 13:20 pm
@katman-126:
hehehe…
yeah… must be real journos across there…!!
5 Nov 2012, 13:22 pm
@ufo-128: I suspect Ryan has already made a mental note of that. We should see a number of discombobulations from him in the near future.
5 Nov 2012, 13:24 pm
@ufo-123:
Mitchells lawyers have probably advised him that as he is still under contract to the Lions, any other job he takes would be a breech of contract and open to damages claims. On the other hand, he can claim the balance of his contract as a settlement if the Lions want him to go, which wouldn’t be the case if he’d already taken another job.
5 Nov 2012, 13:24 pm
@katman-129:
i suspect you’re correct and we will…
5 Nov 2012, 13:27 pm
@David-130:
yeah… lots of discomconvolutions to this story still to come…!!
5 Nov 2012, 13:34 pm
@ufo-132:
Yep. Looks like JM believed he’d be found guilty and acted a bit hastily when he took the Sale job. Now he’s trying to do some damage control.
5 Nov 2012, 13:41 pm
@katman-126: That’s my word for the day.
5 Nov 2012, 13:47 pm
Spiesisworthless1 – It is frightenening when a coach doesn’t select a settled midfield combo of JDV/JDJ, plays a scrummie on the wing instead of proper wing, keeps on playing an out of form flyhalf then selects a novice to redeem all!!!
If HM continues with his mad selections on the next few weeks expect some re occuring nightmares from the EOYT from hell under Strauli, although i think this team is too good for that to happen but not the coach!!
5 Nov 2012, 13:48 pm
Discom what?
Isnt that a pharmacy
5 Nov 2012, 13:49 pm
katman #120 – I would be rather happy if that team ran out against Ireland!!
5 Nov 2012, 13:51 pm
Does anyone know how the backs have been running IE who is is what position @ training (usually the indication of the starting XV)
5 Nov 2012, 13:53 pm
what a ridiculous way to say ‘he confused the ***** out of me’
discombobulated
pretty much what the lions franchise is
5 Nov 2012, 13:54 pm
HM has taken four left wings with him.
Maybe he’s having a change of political heart
5 Nov 2012, 13:54 pm
@race of tan-137: Ja, it’s pretty solid. We’re just discussing it over on the All eyes on Bok backs thread.
5 Nov 2012, 13:55 pm
@Rockn Rolla-138:
Internet Explorer..?..
5 Nov 2012, 13:57 pm
A question about Raymond Rhule, Never seen the Kat play, what are his attributes
Pace/Step/Acceleration/ Technicalities ??????
5 Nov 2012, 13:58 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-142:
Nada…….. not even IOL.co.za
5 Nov 2012, 13:58 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-142:
Yep, HM is Googling more possible players.
5 Nov 2012, 13:58 pm
@Dawn-140:
Marxist !!!!!!
5 Nov 2012, 13:59 pm
@Rockn Rolla-138: How the backs are running? Like chickens with no heads is my guess? With ‘attack’ coach van Graan barking off an order every now and again…..
5 Nov 2012, 13:59 pm
@David-145:
And a game plan.
5 Nov 2012, 14:00 pm
@Rockn Rolla-146:
Seriaas!
5 Nov 2012, 14:01 pm
@Rockn Rolla-143: He’s very quick and is not afraid of backing himself on the outside, surprisingly robust in contact (considering he’s not the biggest wing in the world) and he steps like a mothertrucker.
5 Nov 2012, 14:05 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-147:
You eeefffing kidding me Van Graan is our attack coach ????? i thought he was just FWD’s….WTF
He is the son of the blue bull big cheese
5 Nov 2012, 14:06 pm
@Rockn Rolla-151: van Graan is sofuckingawesome he has TWO jobs. Forwards coach….AND attack coach.
He can also see dead people.
5 Nov 2012, 14:07 pm
@katman-150:
So in good time he could displace the likes of JP or Habs ????
5 Nov 2012, 14:09 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-152: @Rockn Rolla-153:
No realy are you taking the mickey ????
Cause thats funny……i would go for Eddie Jones, Brendan Venter (tho he is good with defence)Campo!!!
5 Nov 2012, 14:10 pm
@David-145:
no, it seems he’s got the players googling positions and the lineup
@Rockn Rolla-144:
ok, so no iol.co.za and limited browsing ability on internet explorer….
flip, these boys are being set up for failure.
5 Nov 2012, 14:13 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-152:
no, only dead bulls people.
the other dead people are too transparent… very hard to read…
5 Nov 2012, 14:13 pm
@katman-150:
So in the mould of Digby Ioane !!!!
5 Nov 2012, 14:15 pm
@Rockn Rolla-154: I am not kidding you. Ask Transformation. He will be able to pull up the evidence.
5 Nov 2012, 14:17 pm
@Rockn Rolla-153: Perhaps one day, but he’s not there yet.
5 Nov 2012, 14:19 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-158:
S h y t e ……that be the case the boys are better off attacking playing barbarian style rugby where they just get together and say “lets just throw the ball around and see what happens lads”
5 Nov 2012, 14:21 pm
@Rockn Rolla-160: I think The Meyer punishes players who show Barbarian type, creative tendencies…….
5 Nov 2012, 14:29 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-161:
So what is Van Graans attacking script
Maul – if maul stops revert to box kick
Ruck – Pass to closest openside forward or inside centre to repeat the process, if no meters are gained pass to Morne
Scrum or Lineout – pass to Morne or Maul
Morne – Kick up and under or kick for touch
I don’t see any more going on that text book
5 Nov 2012, 14:36 pm
@Rockn Rolla-162:
Jip. You get it in one. Players 11 to 15 are nothing more than an inconvenience to Mr Meyer. They have to be there to make up the numbers. The Bok backline could charge the coaches with criminal neglect.
And what we have to look forward to: Meyer using the conditions up north as the perfect excuse to continue with his ‘fuckingmarvellous gameplan and rugby philosophy’.
Unless he starts Elton or Lambie….then we might see some movement.
5 Nov 2012, 14:40 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-163:
Dont know so much about that philosophy……seen some pretty enterprising running rugby being played up north these days…….even look at Whales they swing the ball in those parts
5 Nov 2012, 14:46 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-163:
Oh !!!!
And this is in Morne Steyns text book,
When all else fails and you have been out played by you opposite number – Have a b! tch fit and stiff arm any opposing backline player within the dying seconds
5 Nov 2012, 14:55 pm
@Rockn Rolla-164: All the NH teams throw the ball around a bit. But Meyer will tell you that the NH conditions are tailor made for his ’10 man’ blueprint.
And the journalists will believe him, and applaud him when he starts with Morne Steyn…..
Can’t wait to see the Bok run on team….
5 Nov 2012, 15:07 pm
you guys are chops
5 Nov 2012, 15:08 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-167: Chops with our eyes wide open
5 Nov 2012, 15:09 pm
Well if the people supposed to be holding the coach to account, i.e. journalists have such a low expectation (you can include Brendan Nel in that too) why should the coach change?
I said it before, this tour should be about innovation not results, also SARU should be contracting Campo while they are up North.
5 Nov 2012, 15:17 pm
@The Bill-169: EVERY TEST is important, the Boks should got WIN EVERY test!
5 Nov 2012, 15:25 pm
The boks should look to improve in every test. I would love it if they could win while playing a good brand of rugby, but right now I would take a loss if they tried to be better than what they have dished up most of the year.
5 Nov 2012, 15:28 pm
A Springbok B-team should have a clean sweep of Europe.
Year in and year out.
We are the Springboks, for goodness sake.
5 Nov 2012, 15:29 pm
@Rockn Rolla-151: @The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-152: “van Graan is sofuckingawesome he has TWO jobs. Forwards coach….AND attack coach.”
bloody haters you lot, when you see Johan “Kitch Christie” van Graan, SHOW HIM SOME RESPECT!
Hi-tech forward thinker for Boks
06 May, 2012 11:10
NEW Springbok forwards coach Johann van Graan describes himself as a “very well-mannered, approachable person” in his CV. For the moment, though, we’ll have to take his word for it as his new paymasters, SA Rugby Union, have declared him and other members of Heyneke Meyer’s coaching staff off limits to the media.
What we do know with a large degree of certainty is that the 32-year-old Van Graan is untested at the game’s highest level. But he comes highly recommended to the Bok fold.
His route to the ranks of the coaching elite is the one less travelled. A Meyer protege, Van Graan represents a new breed of coach who, in the absence of a
decorated playing career, has earned recognition and respect through his vision and dedication.
Those close to him point out he has made a career of his passion. “He is a real student of the game. He’s young, so uses technology in a way older coaches don’t,” observed his former mentor at Afrikaans Hoerskool, Dr Carel Kriek, who is now the principal at Midstream College. “He did just about everything at the Bulls but somehow also managed to stay in the background. He does so much at such a high level that he will be sorely missed.”
Van Graan’s devotion to his craft has seen him tap into the intellectual property at Barcelona FC, the San Francisco 49ers, the New England Patriots, Boston Red Socks, Saracens, the Waratahs and the Sydney Bulldogs, among others.
The Bachelor of Commerce graduate also made his services available to the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research.
The former Loftus ball boy has set about his dream single-mindedly, getting involved as technical adviser at the Pumas in 2003 when he was only 23.
Kriek has no doubt about the credentials of the son of Bulls chief executive Barend van Graan.
“He will become an exceptional head coach. Guys tend to specialise so much that it is
very difficult for a head coach to get everybody pulling in the right direction. You need to be able to work with people. Kitch Christie was like that,” said Kriek.
Laaities have to know their stuff if they want to introduce old dogs to new ways.
“In my 12 years as a player I can say with certainty that Johann was one of the very best coaches I have worked with,” Victor Matfield cooed in a testimonial.
“Johann is one of the few coaches who understands the game in depth. He started as our
forwards coach and it was amazing to have a coach who could challenge me in lineouts.”
Another former Bull concurs. “Johann has been the most important coach at the Bulls
since 2008,” wrote Fourie du Preez. “He has the respect of all the players and he has been influential in most of our lives, especially mine.”
5 Nov 2012, 15:31 pm
@The Bill-171:
Its like do you keep playing with the niggling injury but not play at 100% as to not miss a game, or do you sit out a few games have surgery done then get back to peak peformance
Bok and been niggling for quite some time now!!!!
5 Nov 2012, 15:33 pm
@Transformation-173: I am surprised you did not embolden the son of Bulls chief executive Barend van Graan
5 Nov 2012, 15:35 pm
there you have it from the fuckingPureGenius himself!
“Johann has been the most important coach at the Bulls since 2008,”
who needs Wayne Smith when we have our OWN “techno”!
5 Nov 2012, 15:37 pm
@willievz-175:
5 Nov 2012, 15:39 pm
@willievz-175: we knew that from the GET!
what predigree didn’t know was ALL the fabulosity that Johan possesses!
5 Nov 2012, 15:40 pm
@David-122: No DAVID.
Awful consequences.
See that you have been under siege from usual suspects.Hang tough
5 Nov 2012, 15:42 pm
@capebull-177: Did that post silence you too?
5 Nov 2012, 15:47 pm
Transie
Any news on Ricardo Loubscher and what he actually does at the Boks?
5 Nov 2012, 15:47 pm
@Transformation-176:
So what would be your perfect coaching Panel
Mine would be
Head – Nick Mallet
Backs – Eddie Jones
Fwds – John Plumtree
Defence – Brenden Venter (belive it or not the guy is a top defence coach) Nienaber’s style may blunt the attack some what.
Scrum – Karl Hayman
Kicking – Braam Van Straaten
5 Nov 2012, 15:49 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-166: Sh it no.
5 Nov 2012, 15:50 pm
@Rockn Rolla-182:
Tho it would never work, cause there would be serious ego clashes in that outfit
5 Nov 2012, 15:50 pm
@Rockn Rolla-182: Some serious egos there…
5 Nov 2012, 15:51 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-168:
eyes wide shut more like it
@willievz-175:
alweer jy..?..!..
5 Nov 2012, 15:51 pm
@Rockn Rolla-184: @willievz-185: SNAP!
5 Nov 2012, 15:52 pm
@willievz-181:
Testing depth gaugess……….
5 Nov 2012, 15:54 pm
Realistic best coaching team. Keep it relatively small and compact only consulting Monty and Visagie.
Head – Mallet
Defense- Nienaber
Attack- Campese
Kicking- Monty
Scrum- Visagie
5 Nov 2012, 15:56 pm
@willievz-187:
But imagine that unit if eveyone left their ego’s at the door it would be like the Anvengers for the Bok symbol…..send HM back to coaching school boy rugby in PTA Town
5 Nov 2012, 15:57 pm
@Rockn Rolla-182: Nick, eddie, Plum Venter?
the hell, who can afford all those people?
5 Nov 2012, 15:59 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-189:
That is true because you dont coach at international level, you mearly statergise and manage players
5 Nov 2012, 16:00 pm
@Transformation-191:
If they can afford Johann “Kitch Christie” Van Graan – double trouble as forwards and attack coach – they can afford anybody
5 Nov 2012, 16:01 pm
@Transformation-191:
Same people that can aford to pay for Hougaards Audi and van Graan “die Techno Boer”
Put it on die Blou Bill !!!!
5 Nov 2012, 16:04 pm
@ryecatcher-179:
I’m just ignoring his rubbish.
5 Nov 2012, 16:05 pm
But all said John Mc Farland must be the worst defence coach in history….whathefk has he ever done !!!!
5 Nov 2012, 16:07 pm
@Rockn Rolla-196:
The Bulls have had defensive issues ever since they’ve won their first S15 title.
Scored a lot of tries, but leaked a lot too.
5 Nov 2012, 16:32 pm
Head – Ewen McKenzie
Back – Carel Du Plessis
Foward – Mat Proudfoot
Kicking – Braam Van Straaten
5 Nov 2012, 16:52 pm
@willievz-197:
such a load of ****.
tries for and against 2010:
Bulls = 47 – 32
Stmers = 36 – 17
Tahs = 45 – 31
Crsdrs = 43 – 24
Reds = 43 – 38
Brmbs = 40 – 25
Blues = 47 – 32
Canes = 40 – 37
The Sharks23- 27
Chtahs = 34 – 50
Chiefs = 40 – 48
Hghlndrs = 34 – 53
Force = 24 – 42
Lions = 32 – 72
5 Nov 2012, 16:54 pm
i wouldnt say its any more or less than the rest.
5 Nov 2012, 16:54 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-199:
**** = c r a p
5 Nov 2012, 17:08 pm
How much more must Springbok fans expectations be tempered???
2009 – Best Bok team and results in a looong time. Still lose to Ireland in Nov.
June 2010 – 3 point victory over Wales (new team, overseas players etc).
EOYT 2010 – Experienced Bok team, most of the Dream Team from 2009:
Scrape victory against Ireland (but granted – a victory in Dublin)
Scrape 4 point victory against Wales
Lose to Scotland!!!! (possibly the worst game I have ever watched in my life)
Decent performance against England (Mvovo was the man)
So how tempered can we get? Grateful for 1 point victories?
Can this “new” team actually do any worse than the old experienced team scraping victories and losing to Scotland?
I would say this new team has nothing to lose and can only impress us
5 Nov 2012, 17:44 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-200: Compared to the Stormers?
The team with “that” defensive coach which everyone else wanted as Meyer’s assistant?
5 Nov 2012, 18:26 pm
Still bored …
5 Nov 2012, 18:47 pm
@Transformation-191: Especially Eddie!
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