Exodus reaching critical point
6 Nov 2012
RYAN VREDE, in Dublin, writes Heyneke Meyer is deeply concerned about the rate South Africa is losing top young talent to Ireland.
England have benefitted significantly from the services of South Africans in recent years. And it now appears the Ireland Rugby Football Union has embarked on a deliberate and calculated strategy of identifying and recruiting emerging players with a view to strengthening their pool of players from which the national team is selected from.
This season Munster recruited former Baby Boks captain CJ Stander (20), Leinster added highly-rated second-row Quinn Roux (20) and Connacht signed centre Danie Poolman (21), who scored a try on his starting debut last weekend. Contacts in the Irish media suggest more raids are planned in the Irish summer.
Having served a three-year residency, former Cheetahs hooker Richardt Strauss is expected to make his debut for Ireland against the Springboks on Saturday. He is likely to be the first but not the last South African to line up for Ireland against his countrymen.
‘We are obviously concerned,’ Meyer said when asked about the situation. ‘You want the best players in South Africa. I don’t think suddenly we can have a lot of guys leaving without affecting the depth that we had.
‘There’s a perception that we had all this depth. But look at the amount of youngsters we have had to use this year. I just went through the players playing overseas and you would get an unbelievably strong Springbok side just from the players overseas. In every single position there is a great player who is playing overseas.’
Meyer has always spoken highly of Richardt Strauss, cousin of Springbok hooker Adriaan, and indeed lamented his decision to leave in 2009. He said he understood Strauss’s decision and would never criticise a player for wanting to play at the very highest level.
‘I’m really happy for him. I’ve always thought he was a great player,’ he said of Strauss. ‘He moved on before I was there. I’m very happy for Strauss and I know he won’t do us any favours.
‘He can understand Afrikaans and he’ll understand all of our line-out calls, but he’s a great individual. I hope he gets the opportunity to play for Ireland. I would like all the players to play with South Africa but that’s the modern game. I’m looking forward to seeing him play.’
Turning his attention to the Test at the Aviva Stadium on Saturday, Meyer rejected the suggestion that Ireland’s injury crisis will make them soft targets.
‘They are a quality and very experienced side. I’ve also got a lot of respect for their coaching staff, having worked with Gert Smal and Les Kiss,’ he said.
‘If you look at that series against the All Blacks in June, they could have won the second Test. The All Blacks are the type of team that if they score two quick tries you have to chase the game, which is what happened to us in Soweto. I don’t consider that result when thinking about our meeting with them, they’ll probably be more dangerous.
‘They are fresh because it’s the start of their season and teams always lift themselves when they play against the Springboks. If your basics aren’t up to scratch, your goal-kicking isn’t there and you don’t take your chances we’ll lose.’
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49 Comments
6 Nov 2012, 13:56 pm
Quin Roux as far as I know is only a short term transfer, in CJ Stander we can firmly blame HM and the Bulls for selecting either one of the the pathetic Potgieter twins before him. Stander is a mych better player than both of those fools inlcuding Stegman.
Oh and…Irish transfer dragons!!!
6 Nov 2012, 13:58 pm
I assume when SA teams play each other they have to use sort of code at the line out so the opposition doesn’t know what they’re doing. Do they not do the same at national level?
6 Nov 2012, 13:58 pm
@gonzo-2: I’m referring to this line
“He can understand Afrikaans and he’ll understand all of our line-out calls”
6 Nov 2012, 14:03 pm
Dont select overseas based players then moron .
6 Nov 2012, 14:05 pm
CJ Stander, who is 22 BTW, wants to play as a loosie but HM wanted to turn him into a hooker according to the latest edition of SA Rugby magazine. He also mentioned that his friend Arno Botha is rated above him already and that he was too low down in the pecking order. It is a pity though that he is leaving.
Poolman is not Bok material IMO.
When Roux left, it was reported that he would return to the Stormers and WP. Let’s hope he comes back – he has great potential !!
Strauss would probably never have played for the Boks but I still rate him. Good luck to him for being in the Irish group!
6 Nov 2012, 14:07 pm
Well Heyneke you’re the one now grabbing overseas players left right and center.
If you follow that policy whats the point of them staying in SA?
6 Nov 2012, 14:12 pm
Yup, Quin Roux will be back for Super Rugby, I think the Bulls messed Stander around too much, selecting Jacques “standing behind Keegan Daniel in the full bus line” Potgieter ahead of him.
I honestly have yet to see one iota of talent from that lummox, he can’t catch, stay on his feet or tackle, a quality kings player if ever there was one. I started worrying about the Bulls way back when they signed him, thought they were grasping at straws, but I guess he bowled them over with his performances in that mother of all competitions, also known as the 1st Division…
6 Nov 2012, 14:17 pm
Arno Botha wont be in the Bulls 22, Stander should have gone to Stormers. Could have rotated with Kolisi instead of playing Vodacom cup for the pink bulls.
Also why pick Heinke, Steenkamp & Brits when Burden, Maku, Ntubeni, Deon Fourie were all playing well. Steven Kitshoff,Malherbe, Werner Kruger & even Deon Carstens could have been picked.
6 Nov 2012, 14:23 pm
Ryan Vrede, in Dublin, is no better, than Ryan Vrede, in Cape Town
6 Nov 2012, 14:25 pm
@thesaint-7: How sure are we all about Quinn coming back (Hell,I hope it is so…)? I know the WPRFU said that it was hoped he would come back amongst other things – but then we also know they were the last fools on the planet to realise that Pollard had signed with the Bulls 3 years back….and that Jacque Fourie was leaving for Japan.
If Quinn isn’t guaranteed any sort of gametime here, I’m damn certain he (or his agent most certainly) will look at other offers.
Personally, Roux (4) and Etsebeth (5) are my dream team lock pairing for WP. Bekker can consult, and play a game every 6 weeks or so…..
I hope he comes back, and I hope the WPRFU are working on it! (and not just expecting him to return because he said so…..)
As for Stander – The Meyermoron needs 5 PK’s just for that. Talk about ruining young player’s careers and robbing the country of a possible ‘great’. ***notamusedsmiley***
Arno Botha will be riding the bench for the Bulls next year…watch. Meyer’s illigetimate toddler, Spies has the No 8 tattooed on his USN formed butt. Botha to ride the bench and get fed up…..
6 Nov 2012, 14:47 pm
Re CJ Stander…
What did HM expect?
6 Nov 2012, 14:50 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-10: I think Spies should go to France for two years, might turn him into deceint ruggas player, seemed to happen with Big Joe.
6 Nov 2012, 14:52 pm
@willievz-11: My bulls loose trio would have been going forward: 8 – Arno Botha, 6- Ardenhoff, 7 -Stander. Both Potgieters to learn basics in Vodacom Cup.
6 Nov 2012, 15:09 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-10: I share your feeling about Roux. We all know how clueless Rob Wagner is! Let’s hope they have signed him!!
Roux has a great future IMO
6 Nov 2012, 15:11 pm
@Rhys7-8: kitshoff and malherbe one day maybe, but Kruger is not test material. Burden single-handedly cost the sharks the Currie Cup this year, missing his jumpers literally 60% of the time. The fact is that Gurthro, Heinke and Brits are all currently better than the lads you mention. I personally think the Bok team should comprise SA’s best players regardless of where they’re playing, like most other professional sports. If SARU want to keep our best players in SA, then incentivize them by finding a way to pay them better rather than threatening them with the “test rugby wilderness” if they dare take a more lucrative offer overseas.
6 Nov 2012, 15:12 pm
I’m a WP fan, but also struggle this year to notice why CJ was not everytime in their first 15. I thought he was their best loosie. I have heard from a family friend that he said that if he come back then he will consider either WP or Sharks.
Bulls has messed him around!
6 Nov 2012, 15:16 pm
@goodstuff-13: I haven’t seen too much of Arno, but CJ has been a colossal nr8 in the outings I saw.
6 Nov 2012, 15:20 pm
Weeeell, here’s one possible part solution: Vark those kwees and Arsies.
http://blogs.sport24.co.za/tsrow/2012/11/03/hello-world/
6 Nov 2012, 15:29 pm
Open your eyes and look within:
Are you satisfied with the life you’re living?
We know where we’re going;
We know where we’re from.
We’re leaving Babylon, y’all!
We’re going to our Father’s land.
Exodus! Movement of Jah people!
6 Nov 2012, 15:39 pm
If the head coach has a racist agenda then why not leave?
6 Nov 2012, 15:39 pm
@husky-18: This one comes up a lot and is usually met with Saffers saying, “yeah, let’s leave” and us Kiwis saying, “no way, it won’t work!” But I’m starting to think on club level it would work once the Celts are out of the way.
But what about the internationals? If SA left SANZAR, for the sake of leverage, they’d probably be forced out of the RC too. Adding Argentina somewhat diluted SA’s power.
We already saw how the Europeans treated the Argies so I doubt you’d be added to the 6 Nations. SA could tour downunder in June and Europe in November but what about the rest of the year?
6 Nov 2012, 15:45 pm
@gonzo-21: It’s not practical for anyone. We would battle to find the right fit competition wise and the NZ, AUS, Argies would battle to compensate for SA’s financial muscle.
6 Nov 2012, 15:52 pm
@CharlesM-14: I’m not living in hope to be honest….as fortunately our track record in recent times doesn’t fill one with the confidence that the WPRFU are 100% on top of player movement. Although…..they’ve made some good loan deals, and managed to keep our youngsters….so dare we dream? Hell, I hope so.
@gonzo-21: There are only a few who feel this way….. Most of us prefer to see SA playing the best in the world, it’s the only thing keeping us (SA) anywhere close to the top of the pile at the moment. Moving north, would see us drop 3 places in the rankings before you could say JohnoNeilltheaussietwatisgonehallelujah.
6 Nov 2012, 15:59 pm
HM is all over the place with these rediculous statements, as a coach, however as a director of rugby they are more relevant. MAybe HM should invent the position and then fill it so we can get a decent coach
6 Nov 2012, 16:22 pm
Ire. are a proud country but they have just recently conceeded that they can’t produce quality home grown talent. Instead they now reply on poaching and 3rd generation ancestry. Shame on you Ire.
6 Nov 2012, 16:22 pm
The Stormers should tell that useless bloody Bekker to get lost and make every effort to get Quin Roux back!
6 Nov 2012, 16:23 pm
@katman-19:
Sacrilege
6 Nov 2012, 16:40 pm
@Dawn-27: How does Bob Marley like his donuts?
6 Nov 2012, 16:43 pm
@katman-28:
He called “you people” the crazy baldheads.
So right he was.
6 Nov 2012, 16:44 pm
@katman-28:
You know, “you people”?
“You guys”
6 Nov 2012, 16:44 pm
@katman-28: It’s too late in the day for my brain to work…please tell me the answer…….this has to be funny…….
6 Nov 2012, 16:46 pm
wi’ jam in.
6 Nov 2012, 16:47 pm
So if anyone else also wants a donut… I hope you like jam in too.
6 Nov 2012, 16:48 pm
@Dawn-30: Or as you people like to say, djulle.
6 Nov 2012, 17:01 pm
@katman-32: Didn’t dissapoint!
6 Nov 2012, 17:24 pm
What did Bob Marley say when his wife left him and took the oven?
6 Nov 2012, 17:27 pm
no woman, no pie !
6 Nov 2012, 17:36 pm
HM’s worried for nothing!
The real talent in Jantjies, Kolisie, Rhule, Mvovo, Carr etc are staying put
Rest assured!
6 Nov 2012, 18:12 pm
Even if Stander stays in Ireland for 3 years, he can’t be capped until AFTER the next world cup. So, really the Irish have no intention of capturing him, he is simply designated as a (qualifying) project because Munster have their full quota of non-project overseas players. (Howlett, BJ Botha, Wian du Preez, Laulala). We can wait until 2016 and bring him back to SA then, as a better player. Might be smart to cap him in a 2015 world cup warm-up game.
6 Nov 2012, 22:19 pm
If you do not want the Exodus
- improve the standard of living in SA
- squash voilence and crime
- remove racism
That as a starting point will also reduce the number of “scientist and engineers” that are needed to move SA forward, economically, inovatively and in basic advancement. This will remove the “after thought tag” of the BRICs (small S as SA is going backwards acording to international businesses) nations and make us one of the BRICS emerging nations.
But so too are every “scientist and engineer” once qualified, flee SA at the first opotunity. Why?
Why the hell not, if the Govt are dragging SA into the ground the last place you want to be is in it.
SO, if a rugby skill can get you out, i say, goooooo for it and get that passport.
The weather in Ireland might be **** but at least you can get pissed at night and walk home staggering and not have to worry about your back!
6 Nov 2012, 22:29 pm
@Greenies-40: Explain the meaning of your nic “Greenies” please. Boks? Ireland? Your favourite plant?
6 Nov 2012, 22:36 pm
The ANC will lose Gauteng and Northern Cape to the DA in 2014. Simultaneously, Holomisa will take Eastern Cape. We have two more years to endure. In 2014 the Nation will come of age under a government of National Unity. Seems impossible, but isn’t that the case more and more, day by day. Zuma is going to need his bunker big time, Just have to find him Eva from “Up”!
6 Nov 2012, 22:40 pm
Is this a political blog? I thought it was exclusively for rugby? Guess I had it wrong.
7 Nov 2012, 02:01 am
@Finfan-43:
My commiserations for KZN
7 Nov 2012, 08:05 am
How come nobody was worried in 2007 with all the guys playing overseas. With only 6 Currie Cup sides and not 12 ,players don’t get much chance of exposure in South Africa. South Africa just doesn’t have sufficient top level teams playing at the top to keep the guys in the country. We have the smallest first division or premier division of all top test playing nations. excluding Australia. The dominance of the traditional top 6 Powerhouses of Rugby and the exclusion of the rest has caused the guys to play overseas. 29 June 2007
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7 Nov 2012, 12:27 pm
@husky-18: Let’s hope SA do move to Europe instead of playing with the biased kissing cousisns.
7 Nov 2012, 12:30 pm
CJ Stander wasnt going to be a Derrick Kuun…A promising flank of future international quality turned into a retread hooker and then career done before turning 28
Meyer’s man management is up to sh*t
7 Nov 2012, 22:25 pm
@blik-46:
hehe
It would make our job and Ozzies job alot easier.
How would SA get any better playing against scotland and Italy all year?
To be the best you need to play the best…not 4th-10th ranked teams.
NZ and Ozzie are not the problem. The lack of wins is the problem and the reasons why a lot want to leave, Cant beat em….leave em.
I am sure thats not the saying.
8 Nov 2012, 02:14 am
Surely HM talking about enticing old boys Matfield and du Preez back into the Bok fold would have helped chase some of these young guns overseas?
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