ANC slams Bok coach
8 Nov 2012
ANC secretary general Gwede Mantashe says Heyneke Meyer ‘is not keen on putting black players in the team’.
On Tuesday, Meyer selected Jaco Taute ahead of Juan de Jongh at outside centre, Pat Lambie and Morne Steyn ahead of Elton Jantjies at flyhalf, and Adriaan Strauss and Schalk Brits ahead of Chiliboy Ralepelle at hooker. Three players of colour were included in the starting XV – Zane Kirchner, JP Pietersen and Beast Mtawarira – with another two – De Jongh and Lwazi Mvovo – on the eight-man bench.
‘The situation is the coaches select the basic minimum black players in the team and relax thereafter and overlook good players,’ Mantashe said. ‘Why do we wait until there are no other players? The attitude is that coaches think this is a white sport and they meet the basic amount of players.’
Mantashe said it seemed like Meyer was reluctant to select black players who deserved a place in the side.
‘My view is that the new coach is not keen on putting black players in the team, even those who have proven they are the best.’
He said there was something wrong if someone like Jantjies was not selected and that Mvovo and Stormers flanker Siya Kolisi (who was injured in late August and ruled out for the rest of the season) also deserved a spot in the team.
530 Comments
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8 Nov 2012, 09:31 am
@grant10-89: Which is why PDV wasn’t a poor option as coach , because he could never be accused of being racist.
8 Nov 2012, 09:31 am
The point of transformation and BEE is that if you have two players of different colour and of equal quality/skill/performance that you pick the player of colour. If you apply that to the springbok team then you can happily picking Mvovo, JDJ and Chiliboy without losing anything. One could even say that all three players are in fact better than the current first-choice players in the respective positions.
In the past one might have been able to use the argument that the player of colour was just not good enough. Now there is no excuse. If you have the opportunity and the players why NOT pick them?
From a white guy
8 Nov 2012, 09:32 am
@Te Rangatira-33:
This has always been the case in SA sport. Its a wonder we have won 2 world cups and can compete at all.
If you throw in all the inter provincal rivalry, its an even bigger wonder we achieve anything at all.
8 Nov 2012, 09:33 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-16: why are you quiet about Taute who in my book has had shockers as Mvovo did in Australia?
why does he belong in the team in you mind?
and think whether you should answer this one too…
8 Nov 2012, 09:34 am
@wpallday-98:
So if HM is pushing a game plan that is increasingly less successful, why does every other thread on keo advocate going back to what is traditional to SA rugby.
8 Nov 2012, 09:34 am
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE-62:
There haven’t been any restrictions on whites coacing or playing soccer for the national team since before 1994. We’ve had white players, coaches a captains.
8 Nov 2012, 09:35 am
Seems like Meyer’s going to have to learn the hard way and will be forced to pick black players like Jake White was.
8 Nov 2012, 09:36 am
@Stawm-100: Are you saying that Mantashe, as a SA rugby fan, in his own capacity does not have the right to voice his opinion when ask by journos?
8 Nov 2012, 09:37 am
@simorf-102: exactly the point and in the case of Mvovo, he is definitively better than Houghaard right now.
8 Nov 2012, 09:38 am
@simorf-102:
agree fully
we have the players, black or white
we should be near the top of the tree instead of fighting for second place
3 SA teams in the S15 playoffs- our national pool of players is vast
if HM picks the right players, we should be dominant, and at least holding our own against the ABs
8 Nov 2012, 09:38 am
@wpstormerbok-74: JDJ is 25, how much longer must the man wait? He was the next bok 13 for the last 2/3 years now.
8 Nov 2012, 09:39 am
meyers a genius.
he’s playing moneyball just like that baseball coach, Brad Pitt does for the Oakland A’s.,
8 Nov 2012, 09:39 am
i don’t know why people complain about chiliboy when sense dictated – at the time – that meyer was doing both goosen and duane a disservice fielding both after having played +/- 40min of currie cup after long injury layoffs.
8 Nov 2012, 09:40 am
@Brads-105: Who cares about Keo threads .Our traditional strengths have never been hugely successful ,but Meyer believes he is the one person who can get it right.
8 Nov 2012, 09:40 am
@goodstuff-111:
he has too much flair for HMs liking
8 Nov 2012, 09:40 am
@simorf-102:
You are suggesting the selector and coach are in sync with your idea of a game plan and are picking white players over black.
More likely, a dated game plan involving dinosaur sized forwards can’t find any equally ineffective blacks rather than whites.
8 Nov 2012, 09:42 am
@Transformation-104: also, Mvovo might have let in a try then but Aus’s first try was let through by MSteyn and some forward, cant remember the number, but of course we only focus on the bad the black man did, puhsses me off.
8 Nov 2012, 09:43 am
@Transformation-113:
for me personally, id start chilliboy any day of the week ahead of the hookers we have available now that bismark is out
hes a better test match hooker than strauss (the ruck inspector) and brits (wing/hooker)
8 Nov 2012, 09:43 am
@wpallday-114:
There in lies the issue
8 Nov 2012, 09:44 am
@Transformation-104:
to be fair he’s won one lost one against the only two teams in world rugby who can compete with us.
i called him out during and straght after the new zealand game, and while he wasn’t the worst player going and certainly did offer something in the game against oz, he did make a few mistakes.
8 Nov 2012, 09:47 am
@Transformation-113:
@jacoshark-118:
agreed.
chilli is underated and under-utilised.
8 Nov 2012, 09:47 am
You would think the ANC would have bigger fish to fry.
Obviously not.
8 Nov 2012, 09:47 am
@XhosaKid-37: Please tell him why it is a stupid question.Dont just comment and then disappear.
8 Nov 2012, 09:50 am
@slavedriver-19:
because there is nothing to worry about
8 Nov 2012, 09:50 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-112:
i havn’t seen the movie or read the book, but have heard all about it.
my question then is, wasn’t the story about a guy who WINS some competition/trophy with a bunch of players who were ‘not the bookies choice’..?..
8 Nov 2012, 09:52 am
@John1976-108:
Correct.
8 Nov 2012, 09:52 am
@gunther-122:
its election season
which goes hand in hand with DEFLECTION season
anc takes its political lessons straight out of the republican party playbook.
8 Nov 2012, 09:53 am
@NZINCHINA-124: give it a week, NZ supporters are the same as Saffas, the slightest blip gets the hive buzzing. and remember sir, pride commeth before the fall
8 Nov 2012, 09:55 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-125: The coach to save money on player prices chooses players with the best figures based on computer analysis or such and such.
Basically doing what everyone does now.
But the only stats HM looks at is height/ weight!
8 Nov 2012, 09:55 am
I guess I am the only bloke who considers Taute a far more exciting selection than dejong would be.
nonetheless dejong is on the bench and i imagine it is because he covers 12 and 13. Given how little time the coach has had getting combo’s together it is understandable trying to keep the 12/13 combo intact. Particularly when you now have a new 10 and 14 and 11 combo from the last game. Hence him also wanting to keep kirchener at 15. Otherwise we would have an entirely new backline outside of Pienaar and DeVilliers from the last game.
I imagine Meyer would have considered Mapoe but again, the lack of combo time is a problem with that selection currently.
Basically, backline injuries have been really bad for Meyer with injuries to key forwards only less damaging. Ironically, his pack is already starting to have a settled look about it.
8 Nov 2012, 09:55 am
@MacToogie-128:
we are not like SAFFA supporters they blip all the time
8 Nov 2012, 09:58 am
@NZINCHINA-124: Give it time windgat. We have a saying in SA “Die wiel draai.” translated as “The wheel turns.”
Which basically means that everyone gets their chance, whether for a good time or a bad.
When NZ have a bad time again then we won’t miss your absence.
8 Nov 2012, 09:58 am
@John1976-108: BTW I think that you have raised some serious issues that really require the public protector to investigate. However posting it on the blog, in order to suggest that Mantashe should not have an opinion on rugby matters, is not going to make a difference.
8 Nov 2012, 09:59 am
@MacToogie-52: Mr Mc tool
Fourie played well in the cc as a number 6 , before him a lot of playeres was tried in different positions without success.
Hougie, Pienaar, Steyn , Kunn,
Rossouw was actually a 7 playing lock, now yes some positions share commen things , a hooker can play a role as a loosie,
13 is a centre , defence is a big part of that , defence at 15,14 and 11 is different , thats why players moving from these num,bers to 13 , will always struggle with defence ( JJ , Taute )
Even J Fourie struggled with his defence in early years.
So you can swop certain numbers with a certain amount of success , 7 and 4 , 2 and 6
But not 7 and 6 and not 15 to 13 without major addaptions in players style of play. So Danie would not be a 6 even if he changed his style of play .
Players you mentioned are acceptions on the rule , not the rule
8 Nov 2012, 09:59 am
Condolences to the family of the girl who passed away at the Linkin Park concert last night. What a tragedy. Concert was brilliant – apart from the wind, but none of that seems relevant anymore, after hearing of the passing.
Whoever reckoned that Lucozade structure was safe, is smoking the same crack as Meyer.
Onto Meyer….. nothing to say but: you made your own bed, enjoy sleeping in it. This could all have been avoided Heyneke, had you made more logic inspired selection decisions, rather than what seem to be emotional and size prejudiced ones. *toldyoufuckingso*
8 Nov 2012, 10:00 am
@Stawm-126: Why are you feeling that way?
8 Nov 2012, 10:00 am
Yes I agree that De Jongh and Jantjes should be picked ON FORM
Meyer is no racist. I dont like his selections but hes picked Mvovo whos out of form and we know how much he likes Zane Kirchner,Bjorn Basson and Bryan Habana
Politics needs to just P I S S O F F out of rugby and stop being pathetic losers.
Go and work on sorting out South Africas murder record rather than complaining about a bok team.
Also its not Meyers fault that Habana, Kolisi are injured and Chilliboy has only just returned.
For goodness sake its so annoying these people need to go away and let the team do the talking.
8 Nov 2012, 10:00 am
@goodstuff-132:
yip I got the “wheel turns” part, to be fair though its a pretty slowing turning one for your mob
8 Nov 2012, 10:00 am
@BESTER-96: Bryan Habana has scored the most tries in Bok Jersey….whats your point?
@wpallday-98: A bit more Currie Cups than that.(3 and shared one with FS) Tell me then to what can we attribute the Bulls success then coming from fackall to top of the pops….the weather. Lets end this conversation there as it is headed in the same old direction.
8 Nov 2012, 10:00 am
@MacToogie-128:
Very true.
8 Nov 2012, 10:01 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-135:
Marketing fail.
8 Nov 2012, 10:02 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-125:
no they don’t win in the end, laughingly there are similarities to Meyers selection policy.
basically the gm of oakland builds a team out of stats on the cheap. The players he recruits are nobodies favorites because they look funny, throw funny, are bulls,etc,etc. not to dissimilar to meyer (and jw before) that a good big one has better potential than a small good one.
ironically, they lose in the end to the Yankees “x-factor”. They had won more games that year than the Yankees and I believe hold the record for “wins” in a season.
But hence, another belief of Meyers…..he believes in “game-breakers” as he calls them.
8 Nov 2012, 10:02 am
Who gives a toss what some spiv secretary in one of the world’s most inept, corrupt governments thinks about sporting selection…
Coaches live and die by their sword… not so with the baffoons in charge of more important issues than sport…
8 Nov 2012, 10:03 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-130: “Given how little time the coach has had getting combo’s together it is understandable trying to keep the 12/13 combo intact.”
Bull twang
De Villiers and De Jongh are a combo at S15 level. Have been for a while now.
8 Nov 2012, 10:04 am
@NZINCHINA-131: Dude, you are talking to me like i dont read NZ rugby articles and blogs, you guys are exactly like us, you even dislike the aussies as much as we do.
8 Nov 2012, 10:05 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-130:
A blind man’s dog could’ve selected that Bok pack, in fact many would’ve picked a better pack than Meyer going back to his 1st squad.
Meyer’s rigid system’s outdated and his refusal to adapt will cause his downfall.
If he doesn’t change his mindset after this tour his Bok coaching career will be hanging by a thread.
8 Nov 2012, 10:05 am
@skunk-67: 2010 WC =0
8 Nov 2012, 10:06 am
@gunther-141: Tell me about it. But honestly, while no-one could have predicted the disaster……someone should have at least ‘thought about it’. FFS, this is CT, wind damage and disasters are at the core of our existence.
8 Nov 2012, 10:07 am
and before anyone says why would Meyer not just keep the devilliers-jdj combo intact from superrugby…..it would mean currently having a newbie debuting bydefault at either 12 or 13 because of injury at a period of the game when pressure would be amplyfied.
It is just a smarter move having dejong on the bench covering at the minute.
8 Nov 2012, 10:07 am
@capebull-134: now why do you have to resort to name calling, just shows the class im dealing with, our discussions with each other are done sir.
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