ANC slams Bok coach
8 Nov 2012
ANC secretary general Gwede Mantashe says Heyneke Meyer ‘is not keen on putting black players in the team’.
On Tuesday, Meyer selected Jaco Taute ahead of Juan de Jongh at outside centre, Pat Lambie and Morne Steyn ahead of Elton Jantjies at flyhalf, and Adriaan Strauss and Schalk Brits ahead of Chiliboy Ralepelle at hooker. Three players of colour were included in the starting XV – Zane Kirchner, JP Pietersen and Beast Mtawarira – with another two – De Jongh and Lwazi Mvovo – on the eight-man bench.
‘The situation is the coaches select the basic minimum black players in the team and relax thereafter and overlook good players,’ Mantashe said. ‘Why do we wait until there are no other players? The attitude is that coaches think this is a white sport and they meet the basic amount of players.’
Mantashe said it seemed like Meyer was reluctant to select black players who deserved a place in the side.
‘My view is that the new coach is not keen on putting black players in the team, even those who have proven they are the best.’
He said there was something wrong if someone like Jantjies was not selected and that Mvovo and Stormers flanker Siya Kolisi (who was injured in late August and ruled out for the rest of the season) also deserved a spot in the team.
530 Comments
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8 Nov 2012, 10:56 am
@Tbozknows-198: Or on the bench covering 15, 14, 13
8 Nov 2012, 10:56 am
@Transformation-195: You see that to me doesn’t make any sense. Surely it would be better to play juan who has better rapport whith jdv than a 1 cap player playing in a unfamiliar position.
8 Nov 2012, 10:57 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-197: I am refering to all his selections meaning his matchday 23, not any individual in particular.
8 Nov 2012, 10:58 am
The best bok backline they could get available:
15 Francois Steyn 14 JP Pietersen 13 Juan De Jongh 12 Jean de Villiers 11 Bryan Habana 10 Patrick Lambie 9 Ruan Pienaar
21 Francois Hougaard 22 Johan Goosen 23 Jaco Taute
29 Jano Vermaak / Cobus Reinach
30 Elton Jantjes
31 Gio Aplon
32 Paul Jordaan / Tim Whitehead
8 Nov 2012, 10:58 am
Personally I believe Mvovo is ordinary. The sharks new Kabous long hair version 2012.
any number of other better wingers in my opinion, white,black,female or otherwise.
If there is a 13 in SA that genuinely can feel overlooked it would be rob Eberson in my opinion. Would have been in the mix from the very start and would have slotted in at 13 very nicely outside of steyn or devilliers.
8 Nov 2012, 10:59 am
@John1976-203:
so what is wrong in the pack?
8 Nov 2012, 10:59 am
Lets see what hapns in a couple of days time. I have no intrest in watching Meyers Boks. Just like I ddnt care much for Harrys Boks or Strualies Boks. Pathetic coaches all of them. And yes rugby is still viewed by many as a white sport. If you think otherwise listen to all the lovely comments about soccer when a black person comments about rugby. If its not about race then why jump on the mans back for saying what we are all saying.
8 Nov 2012, 11:01 am
@John1976-133:
I agree it wont make a difference. Mantashe however is giving his opinion as ANC secretary general. He should then be more diplomatic and keep his personal opinions personal.
8 Nov 2012, 11:02 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-197: “His selections” you ask? Meyer has a long list of selection war crimes, unbelievably achieved in a fuckingshort period of time.
He is either:
a) thick
b) thick
c) thick
d) thick
He is currently on trial for above mentioned war crimes.
8 Nov 2012, 11:03 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-130:
I agree with on Taute, he has a great talent. I also agree though that he should be playing 15 and not 13.
8 Nov 2012, 11:04 am
Let’s be honest here, Meyer threw Goosen, Etzebeth, Coetzee and Taute straight into the team as soon as he could, regardless of inexperience or injury problems.
Yet he becomes scared of putting in other players who don’t fit his favoured profile…
Secondly he’s a dumbass for not seeing this issue coming.
8 Nov 2012, 11:04 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-178:
yes, very interesting to say the least. i think i’ll read the book or watch the movie, or both.
i suppose at the end of the day the trick is for all those little ideas and slight changes made to pay off for a coach applying such a methodology.
because, again, at the end of the day its either going to work or its not. make no mistake, i still believe in heyneke meyer and just hope his system see’s fruition sooner as opposed to later.
@Transformation-183:
lmao
tears transie… tears…
yes… yes i will accept that as a plausible explanation.
8 Nov 2012, 11:05 am
Stawm
he gave his oppinion as a rugby fan. Not as the ANC sec gen. Journos just thought the ANC angle will sound more catching.
8 Nov 2012, 11:06 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-205:
i reckon there’s even an indian wing out there, somewhere, who would give mvovo a serious run for his money
8 Nov 2012, 11:06 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-205:
Don’t insult Kabous.
90 tries in 128 matches for Natal is no mean feat.
8 Nov 2012, 11:06 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-206:My opinion is :Kruger is a bit soft, fall off tackles quite easily ; Alberts is a 20 minute max player and disappears later in the game; Strauss is a ruck inspector and could also be found taking up space in the backline.
8 Nov 2012, 11:07 am
@PissAnt-163:
Exactly what I been telling 99% of the white superiority engendered pseudo intellectually educated snot noses right here, its buried deep within their bourgeois reared psyche and even these little self denying supremacists who ‘think’ they are not afflicted by this inane societal disease can’t even see it within themselves.
The author of this piece at least took a pretty hard look at himself and came out with some honest answers.
8 Nov 2012, 11:08 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-214:
raj ‘hotwings’ naidoo
put your boots on
8 Nov 2012, 11:10 am
@Robzim-215:
was that pre or post professional era?
8 Nov 2012, 11:10 am
@PissAnt-163:
Thanks for wearing your heart on your sleeve here – RESPECT!
However, Heyneke Meyer was put there by SARU – Jurie Roux, Hoskins and their merrymen who themselves have vitriolic pulsating rascism in their own ranks and amongst themselves.
SARU have now relocated to Hendrik Verwoerd Drive – now I ask you with tears in my eyes what kind of sensitivity is that?
Have these people lost their mind?
Ask any of the black coloured churra or moslem men and women walking the corridors there and part of this reason is that SARU has done squat in either an Academy to develop nurture feed & condition players of colour or to address this head on and groom players of colour in the same way youngsters at 15-20 are groomed for the provincial teams so we can say – see there – these boys were picked on merit – and they were – only they could run over and walk through those players of colour because of their headstart at the lunch and dining room table.
I am sorry that Heyneke Meyer becomes the lightning rod for SARU who have closed their eyes wide shut to their very own constitution – so Gwede has every right to highlight the effect as SARU have failed to address the cause.
This is a right mess and should Meyer and his white Springboks lose to Ireland and England – we all will be calling for his head.
The biggest stuff up (well actually one of many) SARU did was to walk away from an investment of R15,000,000-00 in November last year and not appointing Peter de Villiers to groom the talent he spotted.
This shows zero succession plan and quite frankly was unzipping their fly in the face of every coloured, black, mozzie, indian and matabele from Zimbabwe.
8 Nov 2012, 11:10 am
@Stawm-210:
Yes and Meyer also agrees that Taute is looking long term as a possible 15 but not selecting Kirchener would mean losing even more of what little experience you have in the backs.
Meyer has continuelly said “horses for courses” but he is stuck in the middle of trying to get some consistent selection vs his preffered players in preferred positions.
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-209:
personally I believe You along with skop to be the most emotionally unstable on this sight. Throw in HG to make it a trio.
But that is just my opinion.
8 Nov 2012, 11:11 am
@NZINCHINA-138: Nah, not really, been three years since we had an epic year and 5 years since we won the WC, so not really. AB’s had a dry spell on and off since 1987, but also did not win the WC for 24 years. Our cicle was only 12 years.
But SA going through a dip nou as well as Aussies, so I think AB’s will have easy ride in SH for the next three years if things stay the same, that is if your coach doesn’t screw it up like he did your lineouts in ’09.
8 Nov 2012, 11:11 am
@skunk-213: Without someone jumping out and accusing me of being a “Camps Bay lilly liberal”, might I say that I can’t believe people are surprised, shocked or even upset at Gwede’s remarks.
Meyer had to have seen it coming after all the smack he (Meyer) has spoken throughout the year when it comes to selections? He is not trusted – by anyone outside Pretoria (or not anymore at least…and to think this twat was hailed as the Dalai Lama of the rugby world when he descended onto the Bok throne riding a bull with wings) I doubt Meyer can even remember some of the sh y te he has spat out since being appointed………
Funny old world though – he might not remember, but others do
After all, we live in one of the most polarised societies on the planet……
8 Nov 2012, 11:11 am
@Gordon Gekko-220:
He Gecko
Long time since we saw you post something.
8 Nov 2012, 11:11 am
on another note,
what’s with all these articles on lambie (mostly) and various other sharkies..?…
this blog’s taken a decidely sharkie turn
8 Nov 2012, 11:12 am
Meyer brought this ugly situation onto himself.When he took over he promised to reward form,but he turns around and select non-performing Bulls players and selecting players out of position above performing ones like JdJ etc etc.SA is better off with an English speaking coach it seems.These Afrikaner ones are as thick as planks it seems.Real farking rock spiders to say the least.That’s what you get when you leave civilisation to trek up to the northern wilderness.
8 Nov 2012, 11:12 am
Can anyone please comment on the selections of Strauss, Etzebeth, Louw, Vermeulen and Coetzee. All of them Meyer rate highly, pushing them into the team as soon as they were available. All of them were not close to regulars under the old regime. All of them are not anywhere near the Bulls set up.
Questions: Were these good selections? Have these players been successful at the highest level in their first international season?
Yes, Meyer made mistakes and he is still making some, but he has done a lot more good things than bad things. Interesting that Werner Kruger, Dean Greyling, Morne Steyn, Flip vd Merwe, Francois Hougaard, Kirchner are all players first capped by Peter de Villiers. Only Juandre Kruger, JJ Engelbrecht, Jacques Potgieter and Arno Botha are new Boks that are Bulls. Kruger has been good and Botha is an inspiring choice. Potgieter is a fail and Engelbrecht was not really part of any test match.
8 Nov 2012, 11:12 am
@Rhys7-204: disagree – Frans is the best 12 we have and Jean is the cancer in the backline. Ultimately Jan Serfontein will also make the mix and 13 at present going to the best candidate would be Jacques Fourie if were speaking hypothetically and probably will still be in 3 years time. Behind him we have Juan de Jongh and id dare to say players like Paul Jordaan and Robert Ebersohn should be somehwere in that frame too.
8 Nov 2012, 11:13 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-221: My name with Skop and HG’s? Uberfuckingawesomeness…… not.
Don’t let a little bit of my emotion get in the way of the truth, RE: Meyer.
Has he, or has he NOT made this whole coach thing VERY HARD for himself?
8 Nov 2012, 11:13 am
@skopdiekan-217:
You did notice the part where the club player admitted his braai buddies say much the same thing didnt you.
You can step down from your self acclaimed high horse for a while. There is definitely a racism problem in this country, but it is not a one way street. You are only seeing the one side.
8 Nov 2012, 11:13 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-214: Funny, but no, you are wrong.
Fast, strong and good finisher – took three WP players to keep him from scoring in CC SF, almost looked like he would for a second or two.
8 Nov 2012, 11:13 am
@PissAnt-163: Respect
8 Nov 2012, 11:13 am
can anyone tell me, is @skopdiekan-217: that oke who ran off to the UK and now runs down anything white, who was blocked from keo.co.za a few times?
8 Nov 2012, 11:14 am
@Hurricane-59: At this level, one player off form can be the difference between winning and losing.
8 Nov 2012, 11:14 am
@wnbb-226: Dit is natuurlik nie rasisties nie.
8 Nov 2012, 11:14 am
@John1976-216:
I agree and would have considered Flip as a starting combo. but makes very valid points withregards to lineout calling and he would again be starting from scratch by playing that combo. Likewise if he called in a new 5 who has not yet been in the mix.
8 Nov 2012, 11:15 am
@Horings-227:
the only mistakes meyer has made in my opinion was putting his faith and trust in, and believing in ‘the peoples’ players only for them let him down, badly.
8 Nov 2012, 11:16 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-225:
Trying to get the attention of the lost guppies?
8 Nov 2012, 11:16 am
@wnbb-226: Kom ons wag maar vir die eerste Engelse coach om ‘n SA span in die super rugby reeks te laat wen.
8 Nov 2012, 11:17 am
@skunk-213:
Maybe you are right, in fact considering how much the “journos” like to incite hatred with their falsifications just to generate public interest, it is most probable you are right. With this in mind then, no high profile politician with any brains should respond to a question like that when it is not in his mandated portfolio to do so.
8 Nov 2012, 11:17 am
I saw this coming.
8 Nov 2012, 11:18 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-229:
dude…he doesn’t injure players himself.
And finding some sort of consistency in selection is as important as just starting this months “player of the month”.
I have asked the question already but none answer.
Who is exactly wrong in this tests match day squad given the “situation”
8 Nov 2012, 11:18 am
@Horings-239:
Kitch Kristie?
8 Nov 2012, 11:18 am
@goodstuff-231:
yes… yes… he is deadly at cc level isn’t he…
8 Nov 2012, 11:19 am
A pity ANC can’t hold an amnesty for guys like Mujati who were capped before the passport regulation came in. I understand the sentiment of the law but applying it retrospectively seems unnecessary
If everyone was fit, Meyer could select Beast/Mujati/JPP/Habana and he seems to like Kirchner for now. Add JdJ and Jantjies on the bench. Meyer could end the game with an almost non-white backline. That’s 7 guys in the 22 all based on merit and appears to be in Meyer’s thinking. Perhaps even add Kolisi if he’s fit and Meyer decides to blood him.
So how can the guy really be criticised?
I know my logic doesn’t hold water with Taute maybe taking Kirchner’s place once Steyn is fit, Jantjies dropping out once Goosen is back. But it’s not far off reality now
8 Nov 2012, 11:19 am
@MacToogie-233:
Who cares?
Maybe MacToogie you are looking for Percy FitsPatrick.
8 Nov 2012, 11:19 am
As for playing black players – the unfortunate thing is Chilliboy, Jantjes Kirchener are not the best in their respective psotions. I agree Mvovo should be put ahead of Houghaard at present as he is more of a specialist wing. So cant see us losing much on switching them. Rhule has just been included in the squad. Juan de Jongh SHOULD be playing but by making that selection it would mean Taute to 15 and Kirchener out – catch 22.
I believe all this starts at grassroots level and blaming the national coach for lack of transformation is childish in the extreme. With sport there is no BEE style appointments – you either cut it or you dont.
Agree on Kolisi but he is injured at present. Had Meyer selected him in the beginning instead of effing about with all his Bulls tjommies then maybe he wouldnt be injured now – he certainly ticked all the boxes when there was great uncertainty about who can play 6. So on that one yep – Heynekes lame selections are very much to blame and he had an opportunity to add another black player to the team which he did not.
8 Nov 2012, 11:20 am
@Horings-235: No.The Afrikaners that stayed behind in the Cape are totally different to the Pretoria ones.
8 Nov 2012, 11:20 am
@Stawm-243: Jy praat van daardie uitnodigings toernooi? Net Lions ondersteuners sien dit as noemenswaardig. O ja, Kitch het ook sy rugby in Pretoria geleer. Moet seker maar die Afrikaanse invloed wees.
8 Nov 2012, 11:21 am
i don’t know why everyone is getting their collective knickers in a knot, meyer won’t change, bow down to media/political pressure or even concede to SARU.
29 May 2012
Players must know why they play the game,’ Meyer told me. ‘They must know why they want to play for South Africa. They must be committed to leaving a legacy. I don’t want players whose dream it is to be a Springbok. I want those who have always dreamed of being good … great … Springboks. I want players who want it; not because a coach, their moms and dads, ‘the media or the public want it for them … but because they want it. Great players don’t have to be told to go the extra mile. They are great because they go the extra mile.’
just relax, buy your beers, wood and meat on saturday and watch the boks like a fan/supporter and stop thinking you know more than the coach.
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