ANC slams Bok coach
8 Nov 2012
ANC secretary general Gwede Mantashe says Heyneke Meyer ‘is not keen on putting black players in the team’.
On Tuesday, Meyer selected Jaco Taute ahead of Juan de Jongh at outside centre, Pat Lambie and Morne Steyn ahead of Elton Jantjies at flyhalf, and Adriaan Strauss and Schalk Brits ahead of Chiliboy Ralepelle at hooker. Three players of colour were included in the starting XV – Zane Kirchner, JP Pietersen and Beast Mtawarira – with another two – De Jongh and Lwazi Mvovo – on the eight-man bench.
‘The situation is the coaches select the basic minimum black players in the team and relax thereafter and overlook good players,’ Mantashe said. ‘Why do we wait until there are no other players? The attitude is that coaches think this is a white sport and they meet the basic amount of players.’
Mantashe said it seemed like Meyer was reluctant to select black players who deserved a place in the side.
‘My view is that the new coach is not keen on putting black players in the team, even those who have proven they are the best.’
He said there was something wrong if someone like Jantjies was not selected and that Mvovo and Stormers flanker Siya Kolisi (who was injured in late August and ruled out for the rest of the season) also deserved a spot in the team.
530 Comments
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8 Nov 2012, 11:22 am
250.Transformation said:
8 Nov 2012, 11:21 am
i don’t know why everyone is getting their collective knickers in a knot, meyer won’t change, bow down to media/political pressure or even concede to SARU.
29 May 2012
Players must know why they play the game,’ Meyer told me. ‘They must know why they want to play for South Africa. They must be committed to leaving a legacy. I don’t want players whose dream it is to be a Springbok. I want those who have always dreamed of being good … great … Springboks. I want players who want it; not because a coach, their moms and dads, the media or the public want it for them … but because they want it. Great players don’t have to be told to go the extra mile. They are great because they go the extra mile.’
just relax, buy your beers, wood and meat on saturday and watch the boks like a fan/supporter and stop thinking you know more than the coach.
8 Nov 2012, 11:22 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-238:
a bit of OTT if you ask me though.
cloying desperation, when trying to win back someone who’s spurned you is an easy way to really put them off you in a big way.
it could work, but it could fail too.
8 Nov 2012, 11:22 am
@wnbb-248: Ja, ons noem hulle Joiners.
8 Nov 2012, 11:23 am
@Horings-227: Everybody in SA saw them as natural successors to the old guard or possible replacements.
Potgieter, Arno, JJ, W Kruger and Greyling were all favouritist selections based on HM’s warped and outdated gameplan.
Arno, is the only player from that lot that can offer anything of value.
Kirchner was always a quota, but with JDJ who is the better player he can actually improve the makeup of his team. The issue I think is HM likes players he can relate too. He can obviously not relate to any Cape Colourds, as he has not picked one coloured player to start who has not played for the bulls more than one match. Aplon and Jantjies are the only non-bulls coloureds to start a match, and only one match.
Potgieter sucked from the get go and stayed in the team for ages before public pressure got him to eject the greese ball.
Aplon had one chance and he got shafted, so did Jantjies! Steyn had to ruin our RC chances before he got booted!
Clear favouritism through out HM’s reign as coach so far.
8 Nov 2012, 11:24 am
@Stawm-243:
. Thick as planks I say.He actually believes that South African super rugby success started with the Bulls just like the CC started when the Bulls started to play with themselves. 
8 Nov 2012, 11:26 am
@Horings-227: well said Horings, people are so blinkered when it comes to provincialism , of those players you mentioned:
Dean Greyling,
Morne Steyn,
Flip vd Merwe,
Francois Hougaard,
Juandre Kruger,
JJ Engelbrecht,
Jacques Potgieter
have been dropped or shifted quite soon after have bad games, with the exception of Steyn of course but that is a different story as Meyer was trying to play him back into form (bad idea in my books)
8 Nov 2012, 11:27 am
@Transformation-251:
are you speaking to us or skop?
8 Nov 2012, 11:28 am
@Horings-249:
I see. So his success is due to Afrikaans influence?
Live and learn.
8 Nov 2012, 11:28 am
@Gordon Gekko-220:
I can keep you busy for hours on my thoughts on SA Rugby bud.
Did something yesterday, won’t repost the whole thing here but you can read it here. http://www.ruggaworld.com/2012/11/07/imagine-if/
8 Nov 2012, 11:28 am
@MacToogie-256:
agreed
8 Nov 2012, 11:29 am
@Transformation-250: My neighbour’s kid has a learning disability, a severe one; combined with various other afflictions. But, he is MASSIVE in build and has always dreamt of becoming a Springbok.
I’m expecting him to be awarded a Bok jersey sometime in the VERY near future.
8 Nov 2012, 11:29 am
@Gordon Gekko-246: i care because i do not engage with or indulge trolls such as yourself.
8 Nov 2012, 11:30 am
@Transformation-251: Did Potgieter go the extra mile when after 30min mark of every game he stops carrying the ball because he is useless?
Did Steyn go the extra mile when he missed all the kicks that lost us the RC?
Did Taute go the extra mile when he missed Dagg which led to a try that started the avalanche that killed us? Or when Taute kicked the ball directly to Carter only for them to go wide and score?
Did Greyling go the extra mile when he got carded for fore arming McCaw?
Did Hougard go the extra mile when his box kicks got stormed down every 2nd kick?
HM knows what he wants but it translates in his brain as:
Big, fast, blue bull, tactical kicking or big again.
8 Nov 2012, 11:30 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-252: They should rather be sending flowers doncha think?
8 Nov 2012, 11:33 am
@MacToogie-256: Thanks. Agree on Morne, but you will recognise the amount of debutants Meyer brought into the team. Morne is one of the few experienced players (partially due to Peter de Villiers) and in my opinion it is the experienced guys that let him down this year. Not the new selections he made.
Glad to see there are some bloggers who are clear thinkers and do not think they are bright because they are English speaking without showing any signs of logic.
8 Nov 2012, 11:33 am
@Transformation-250:
Transie – you in trance there? Of course he will have to change, it just takes a while before the natives get restless because Meyer is losing.
Have you not seen how he has low self esteem and continuously blinks at press conference interviews, is because he is in deep doo doo and he knows it.
Meyer has been unable to impart the gravitas required for this level of competition.
Heyneke Meyer is an emotional man and fairly immature with his emotions as we have seen in the coaches box as it runs away with him.
He is as emotional and passionate as a number of hard core people here who shout at their TV screen at home – and Meyer does not have composure to think and process strategies for his team that he fuels on his passion and a prayer to go with it.
The European teams have been waiting for the arrival of the Boks, and they will be clinical about filleting us as much as your butcher at the local Spar – sorting out your rib-eye for Saturday.
Cook with gas – Not coals.
Drink a Soweto Pepsi and wonder who will be in the Super Rugby Promotion Relegation matches in July 2013 as there is a doo doo storm coming.
Peace.
8 Nov 2012, 11:34 am
@MacToogie-256: Sorry, haw many games did Potgieter srewup before he got dropped? The answer is whatever the number of games he played. That idiot should never have come close to the bok setup.
JJ wasn’t ready and never really got a chance.
Steyn screwed up our entire RC challange. He is the sole reason we never stood a chance. Him and Louis Koen.
8 Nov 2012, 11:35 am
ooMantashe ngamagwala bathetha nje kodwa bengenzinto , nini madoda abaphetheyo kodwa niphethwe. aniyazi uba abacinezeli benu bathi aba bamnyama behlisa umgangatho ,indlela yokudlala NESIDIMA seliqela. uba basathetha bafana nje noleqa intlanzi emanzini . isibhambathiso sabekwa ngoo Craven naba nakwabo lamadoda alandela iimimiselo yoyise mkhulu.
imfesane zange babanayo uba nifuna yona
*madlaga alapha mfowethu akasifuni mfowethu afun’usenza mfowethu amakhoboka mfowethu* ndigwija
8 Nov 2012, 11:35 am
@Stawm-258: No I do not really think that. Only a reaction to racist comments.
8 Nov 2012, 11:35 am
@MacToogie-262:
You come across as an insecure cretin. Troll my derriere!
8 Nov 2012, 11:36 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-264:
yes, perhaps a small unassuming gift of flowers together with a considerate, from the heart ‘which speaks to the person/s on a personal level and says how well you know them’ little gift, less of expense and more of thought.
do that and then give them their space, and respect that space.
time will do the rest… and hopefully you find one another again.
8 Nov 2012, 11:36 am
@nkqo6-268:
don’t lose us in translation here – Google Translate please so we get your meaning.
8 Nov 2012, 11:37 am
@PissAnt-163: Interesting post and I like the passion. You’ll find that most ‘whites’ like you and I feel the same way but I am not stressed at all as time is the factor here.
What everyone forgets is that S.A. has already made immense strides with regards to racism in the last 10 years. I compare it this way, when I was in school (upper class public school) I had mostly white friends and the barrier was still large.
I look at my mates’ children now that are in primary school (upper class public school) – these kids don’t even know the difference between Indian, black, white, Asian, etc. Their house parties, sleep-overs, etc. are an absolute mixed combination. They all have the same accents.
In another 10 years I believe the gap would have closed even more. Just give it time.
In rugby terms, I think that all passionate rugby supportes couldn’t give a damn anymore about colour – we just want to see the best.
Once all ethnical races have the same opportunities (i.e. public schools are an even mixture of Indian, white, balck, etc.) the make-up of the national team will be balanced naturally.
8 Nov 2012, 11:39 am
@Transformation-251:
there is good in you, transie
this is the transie i like and want to see more of.
not the divisive all black loving stirrer
8 Nov 2012, 11:41 am
Snaaks hoe die mense in die Kaap belewenisse in terme van ras het en ‘n opinie vorm oor hoe ons die probleme in die land kan oplos. Julle weet nie wat aangaan nie. As mens in Bosbokrand rondloop is jy ‘n ewigheid van die Kaap af. Nie net 1500km nie.
8 Nov 2012, 11:43 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-264:
How about “Sorry Puma, Sharksgirl and Shark-Lover”. I was only fooling around.
Signed,
Niki.
8 Nov 2012, 11:44 am
@goodstuff-267: Potgieter played 3 games before getting the axe, hardly a lifetime, and like i said he was trying to play Steyn back into form as he is doing with Houghaard now, which i said was a mistake, so in my view that is 2 bulls player he favoured from a list of 8 he tried out, hardly a big number if you look at the make up of the squad
Aplon is never going to be the long term solution at wing or FB and i am just as flabbergasted as you that Jantjies and Mvovo arent starting this weekend, the point Horing’s is trying to make and which i am trying to supplement is that the only reason why supporters perceive Meyer to have a Bulls bias is because of their own provincial bias. the facts are there for all to see if they just choose to.
8 Nov 2012, 11:45 am
@Gordon Gekko-220: “SARU has done squat in either an Academy to develop nurture feed & condition players of colour or to address this head on and groom players of colour in the same way youngsters at 15-20 are groomed for the provincial teams so we can say – see there – these boys were picked on merit – and they were – only they could run over and walk through those players of colour because of their headstart at the lunch and dining room table.”
which school out of all the ones that have historically produced rugby players/springboks is SARU funded?
8 Nov 2012, 11:45 am
@Gordon Gekko-270: point made, thanks.
8 Nov 2012, 11:45 am
@Marty-273:
Racism is not unique to SA – not by a long shot. It is an issue in SA because we make it an issue which is not a bad thing actually. That said, transformation in rugby would be an automatic by-product if we get the other **** right in our game.
8 Nov 2012, 11:47 am
@cane-276:
sorry that they were polluting the place with their man boy love..?..
wow!
political correctness is going to be the end of this world.
8 Nov 2012, 11:49 am
speaking of the world ending, isn’t it supposed to any day now?
when exactly?
is it a specific date?
8 Nov 2012, 11:51 am
@Horings-275: dude, i cant back or understand your posts if you use all these big afrikaans words man
8 Nov 2012, 11:52 am
@Gordon Gekko-266: A/n (very) injury hit Ireland, Scotland and the Poms all fancy their chances against us….. A loss to ONE of them, will be a loss too many for Meyer at this stage.
8 Nov 2012, 11:53 am
@Transformation-278:
You miss the point Transie – profile the players and then look at the wonga behind the players
8 Nov 2012, 11:53 am
@PissAnt-280:
exaclty, and well put.
‘A former Auckland teammate and personal friend of Pat Lam says racism is nothing new in New Zealand rugby.’
http://tvnz.co.nz/rugby-news/racism-nothing-new-in-nz-fatialofa-4829886
‘The morons in question may in fact have been speaking for a much broader societal spectrum than will ever be publicly acknowledged. Racism is New Zealand rugby’s dirty little secret – an issue that whenever explored, ignites blasts of righteous indignation and denials.’
http://www.nzrugbyworld.co.nz/magazine/152/pacific-divide
to our credit, i would say we are far more honest, open and engaging in this regard.
8 Nov 2012, 11:55 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-284:
I think Gert Smal has made a study of all the Springbok players as he knows thei line out calls and has developed a game plan to neutralise the forwards.
Gert – is our man – and he hates to lose and has a point to prove – roll on 21H00 Saturday to see the end result.
8 Nov 2012, 12:00 pm
@MacToogie-283: Sorry. I start to comment in Afrikaans when I get a bit angry at some bloggers.
My point in 275 is the following: There are signs in Cape Town and in Johannesburg that everyone can live in harmony when they are going to the same school and have similar backgrounds. This is true.
The fact is, places in the Platteland like Bosbokrand is so far from this. The entire country will not change for the good in the next 100 years and the chances are it will first go downhill fast.
8 Nov 2012, 12:03 pm
This is what makes Springbok rugby so unique… No other rugby coach has to deal with this.
Politicians need to let Meyer do his job. Transformation is a gradual process. They are only adding stress to everyone’s lives by pulling the race card out. And to be quite honest its actually damned disrespectful to a highly accomplished man who Mantashe probably doesnt know personally.
Coaches need time to build a winning team and move towards transformation. To throw the toys out the pram so soon does more harm than good.
Heyneke keep going Sit. I have critisized your game plan in the past, but the way you have been treated is disgraceful.
8 Nov 2012, 12:03 pm
Was Mantashe asking the same questions of Divvy when he was coach and selecting fewer black touring players than HM is?
Mantashes obviously got way too much time on his hands. You’d think he’d have something more important to do.
8 Nov 2012, 12:04 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-286:
YAWN.
8 Nov 2012, 12:04 pm
@Gordon Gekko-287: I remember Bismark saying he had to learn new calls at the start of the year. I know Smal knew the old calls, but does he know the new calls.
8 Nov 2012, 12:06 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-286: NZ has racism, theft, rape and murder. No doubt about it, every Kiwi will admit it. We even have skin heads in Chch who attack helpless Chinese students for no reason.
But it’s not always the first card that gets played, thank god. And it is definitely less of an issue than in SA but we have a different history, demography, political landscape.
But then this thread is about SA so let’s not high jack it
8 Nov 2012, 12:06 pm
@cane-291:
this isn’t about you, precious.
8 Nov 2012, 12:07 pm
@Marty-273:
People said that after the 2003 RWC also. We are nearly 10 years down the line now. What changed? The number of POC in the run on team has been increased from 2 to 3, that’s what.
I remember a former blogger, WP_ ,and I had this discussion after the RWC in 2007 and he told me to be patient because things will be on equal footing by the next RWC (2011) given the amount of young talent coming through.
Yet, you ask for another 10 years to get it right?
Now, if there were no other merit selections available, it would not have been a problem. The problem now is that you have a situation where the player/s who
is/are left out is/are better than the player/s who get/s selected.
8 Nov 2012, 12:07 pm
@Horings-288: lol, was just pulling the piss bud, i dont share your view on the country though, we have plenty problems for sure and it will take a long tie to fix but i see signs that things are moving in the right direction faster than we expected, for me the starting point is education and it seems the gov has finally realised that their current models are not ideal and need a rework, once the education system gets on the right track things will get better quickly.
8 Nov 2012, 12:08 pm
@Horings-292:
I thought your Guys just called someones number in Afrikaans.
8 Nov 2012, 12:08 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-221:
Check this stupid ignoramus white moron thinking its emotionally stable, have you ever seen more outright supremacy laden denial anywhere in creation, its imbecile idiot morons the likes of these that are the epitome of the cancerous racist garbage that needs rooting out of the pseudo sophistication entrenched bigotry in SA rugby
8 Nov 2012, 12:11 pm
@Kaizan-289:
Transformation is gradual yes, but he currently has black players who are of international quality who are being kept out by inferior white players.
8 Nov 2012, 12:12 pm
@gonzo-293:
yes, the point is i was agreeing with and validating pissant’s statement by pointing out two examples of racism in nz, of which there are many more than one would like i guess
he makes the point that is exists and is not unique to sa, and i agree.
i’m sure one could just as easily find examples in any other arbitrary rugby country.
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