ANC slams Bok coach
8 Nov 2012
ANC secretary general Gwede Mantashe says Heyneke Meyer ‘is not keen on putting black players in the team’.
On Tuesday, Meyer selected Jaco Taute ahead of Juan de Jongh at outside centre, Pat Lambie and Morne Steyn ahead of Elton Jantjies at flyhalf, and Adriaan Strauss and Schalk Brits ahead of Chiliboy Ralepelle at hooker. Three players of colour were included in the starting XV – Zane Kirchner, JP Pietersen and Beast Mtawarira – with another two – De Jongh and Lwazi Mvovo – on the eight-man bench.
‘The situation is the coaches select the basic minimum black players in the team and relax thereafter and overlook good players,’ Mantashe said. ‘Why do we wait until there are no other players? The attitude is that coaches think this is a white sport and they meet the basic amount of players.’
Mantashe said it seemed like Meyer was reluctant to select black players who deserved a place in the side.
‘My view is that the new coach is not keen on putting black players in the team, even those who have proven they are the best.’
He said there was something wrong if someone like Jantjies was not selected and that Mvovo and Stormers flanker Siya Kolisi (who was injured in late August and ruled out for the rest of the season) also deserved a spot in the team.
530 Comments
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8 Nov 2012, 12:12 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-261:
Do you live under power lines?
8 Nov 2012, 12:12 pm
Teacup slams ANC saying they are not keen on putting capable people in government. Film at 11.
8 Nov 2012, 12:12 pm
@nama1-295: I find it similar to the argument, from HM, that Coetzee is ready to step up to international rugby while Kolisie had to wait and gain more experience and there are many more examples. It is really pathetic to expect players and supporters to accept that kind of prejudice.
8 Nov 2012, 12:12 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-282:
22 December, I think.
@Kaizan-289:
You don’t really have to “know” Meyer to see that he is reluctant to play certain players.
8 Nov 2012, 12:13 pm
HM must refrain making cotradictory statements that might be construed as racist behaviour…
Marcell Coetzee (21), a blindside flanker, after impressing in SR – is deemed old enough and good enough to start for the boks at openside flanker. We are told Siya Kolisi (21), who also impressed in SR at openside flanker, had to prove himself some more before he could be considered for higher honours. Yet it took Arno Botha (21) a handful of CC games to prove he was bok material.
The reason cited for Elton Jantjies collecting splinters on the bench in the dead rubber third test against England, was inexperience. Meyer has continually stated that he will not throw a player in the deep end. But he had no problem starting 20 year old Johan Goosen and 21 year old Jaco Taute against the best in the world.
When Pat Lambie, who earlier was deemed not good enough to play flyhalf for the boks, impresses at flyhalf after 3 CC games – having outplayed his direct competition in one of those games – he gets a start. Yet JdJ who was not seen as good enough to start at 13, impresses in 3 CC games in that position – having outplayed his direct competion in one of those games – we’re told the CC is enough to gauge a player’s aptitude for test rugby. So, 3 CC games are good enough to convince Meyer that Lambie is ready to start for the boks but not JdJ…
At the start of the international season Chilliboy was third choice hooker, he got injured, came back, played three games off the bench and is back in the squad. When he does not make the match 23, the explanation given is that he hasn’t played much rugby recently. However, Johan Goosen, Duane Vermuelen and Coenie Oosthuizen needed half a game, after coming back from injury, to prove they were ready…
Some of Meyer’s problems are of his own doing…
8 Nov 2012, 12:14 pm
@Gordon Gekko-272: hayi bendisathetha nabahlali base mzantsi hayi england , uvile?
8 Nov 2012, 12:14 pm
@MacToogie-296: Yes, hopefully you are correct. I am still in the country, so I obvioulsy do have hope.
We are so far behind in education that it will take at least 10 years just to re-educate the current new teachers how to teach properly. This will in turn take 12 years for people to come through the system under our new education system.
In the mean time increased pressure on the economy will have a huge affect on the poorest of poor people and I think a revolution is on our door steps. People down south may not feel the tension, but we feel it up north.
8 Nov 2012, 12:14 pm
@Te Rangatira-33: I realised that 12 years ago when they introduced the racist quota system at Currie Cup level…if only more people would admit how damaging it is when politicians mix politics & sport…the racist Nationalist regime tried it before this one and sadly these fools haven’t learnt from it.
8 Nov 2012, 12:15 pm
@gunther-301:
bwahahahaha
8 Nov 2012, 12:15 pm
@mxhosa-305: cacile madoda lomntu akanifuni nje ngabanye , ayothusi lento . niphethwe ngabantu abacenge intlalontle ke ingxaki aboyika ugqabhuza amathumba ngoba inkovu iyanuka
8 Nov 2012, 12:16 pm
@nama1-304:
ok, thanks for that.
i’ll look forward to it.
8 Nov 2012, 12:16 pm
The problem is not at at test level! The problem lies at junior, club, Vodacom Cup and CC level.
What is SARU doing to develope world class black players????
What about the Kings issue? They were promoted to Super Rugby because they were supposed to be selecting many black players? This hasn’t happened?
If there are world class black players available like Habana, Peterson etc. they will be selected!!!!
8 Nov 2012, 12:17 pm
@Marty-273:
Yeah 50 years too late imagine the progress if that indoctrinated trash hadn’t set root so deep for 50 years too long, and then 80% of the white rugby lovers on this site would welcome turning the clock back to that, take a gender at their oozing thought processes and try spot the progress if you reckon you can.
8 Nov 2012, 12:17 pm
Let’s see:
Kolisi is out for the season.
Chilliboy is coming off a long injury layoff.
If you put de Jongh in at centre, it just means Taute pushes Kirchner out, so no net gain in black players.
Mujati is not eligible.
Habana is injured.
And when Jantjies came on against the All Blacks, we got killed despite having an early lead.
So what you’re left with is Mvovo, who is not the big match player that Hougaard is.
So what’s the argument?
8 Nov 2012, 12:17 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-300: fair point. sometimes it’s hard to keep up with these racism threads. The posts come faster than i can read. i just figured it was one of your usual anti-nz posts but this time you were illustrating a point. my apologies
8 Nov 2012, 12:20 pm
@Gordon Gekko-287:
Gordon
the last time a gert smal team met a heyneke meyer…
75-14 happened. And that a springbok laden stormers side.
both are very good coaches in my opinion.
8 Nov 2012, 12:20 pm
@MacToogie-299:
Precisely.
@John1976-303:
Exactly.
See mxhosa @ 305.
8 Nov 2012, 12:20 pm
I do believe that Heyneke is prejudice against player of colour but you could say the same thing about smaller players and players who dont wear light blue rugby jumpers i certainly do not think that its something his aware of i just dont think Heyneke is coping with the pressure assoicated with the job when this happens u tend to go with ppl your comfortable with. The best example of bias is the Home test against new zealand, Taute battled all game on defence, heyneke hadnt criticised a single player by name all season and that includes Dean Greyling after the test in nz, heyneke does the post match interview and is asked about the boks defensive frailties and what does he say? “Its not Elton’s fault he hasnt played in a while” Yes HM we realise its not his fault but you werent asked about Elton. So after watching a terrible bok performance with countless missed tackles and mistakes all HM saw was the fact that elton failed to drift on defence once. Eish you see what you want to see i guess
8 Nov 2012, 12:22 pm
@Tacitus-314:
hey tacci…..how’s things haven’t seen you around for a while.
8 Nov 2012, 12:23 pm
@Braders-312: In the absense of world class players, for what ever reason, it is reasonable to expect the coach to select the next best available players in that particular position, not so. With young inexperience players the criteria should be apply when it comes to selection. Currently, as pointed out the comment #305 above, different rules are applicable to different players and is definately an indication that HM is PREJUDICE towards certain players.
8 Nov 2012, 12:23 pm
@gonzo-315:
no worries hey,
this time i was in fact merely illustrating a point but for the rest it will be the usual anti-nz bias. you can say a lot about me, but at least i’m consistent
8 Nov 2012, 12:23 pm
@John1976-303: Heyneke Meyer is an outright broederbond type entrenched racist man, which g’dam dumbfck idiot is still trying to pretend otherwise?
He should germanic the riot act chucked at him, smack him straight out of his indoctrinated entrenched stupor
8 Nov 2012, 12:23 pm
@skopdiekan-313: Well we would have become a communist country 50 years ago. Taking into account that our education actually have gone backwards the last 20 years then we would have been the most uneducated communist country ever. At least some educated people are keeping this country above the water.
8 Nov 2012, 12:23 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-319:
Not much happening on the rugby front for a while.
8 Nov 2012, 12:24 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-316: WHOA WHOA WHOA, STOP THE BUS!!!!!!!
A kiwi on keo who admits he was wrong and says sorry??????
RING RING, RING RING
“Hello?…… Oh Hi Satan……… yeah sure, i will send a blanket and heater down right away…… you’re welcome”
8 Nov 2012, 12:24 pm
@John1976-320: should be “same” criteria
8 Nov 2012, 12:26 pm
@MacToogie-277: He is giving starting spots to untested idiots and continues to support players who are out of form. But players who are rocking and playing well are neglected and overlooked! Wh ydid he select Potgieter in the first place? Because he is a bull. Why does he continue to try and make Taute/ Hougard something they are clearly not? Hy does he not reward form? But does he say one thing and does something else?
The man does not see reason, but only does what is comfortable. He clearly is not comfortable with a tried and test quality 13 who happens to be smaller than a tried and failed 13 who happens to be bigger.
The man is blinded by his narrow bulls mentality of bigger is better, bulls is better or white is better. This seems to be his train of thought.
Look at his choices at 13 before selecting JDJ?
De Villiers (biggest centre besides F Steyn in SA I believe, actually a specialist 12).
JJ Engelbrecht (tall, fast and a bull, actually a wing)
Taute (big and fast, weak defender at 13, actually a 15)
JDJ (smaller but fast, agile and clinical finisher, best defender of all of the above)
Do you see the nonsensical nature of his decision making?
8 Nov 2012, 12:27 pm
@skopdiekan-322: germanic = get
autospell fault
8 Nov 2012, 12:28 pm
@Tacitus-314:
and there you have it…
you have such a way to cut through all the BS and get to the bottom of things, tac.
dawn was right about your gravitas… its big… and its blue…
8 Nov 2012, 12:28 pm
@nama1-295: @MacToogie-299: Last year during the Currie Cup Alistair Coetzee was heavily criticised by Thelo Wakefield for a WP Currie Cup team that was ‘too’ white. Alistair Coetzee answered on a public platform, in fact, the same platform Thelo used to ‘question’ his selections.
Alistair, being the absolute gentleman and RUGBY man that he is, answered in a manner that left ZERO doubt as to his selection policy during that time, and that merit (his merit rankings as coach) played the only role in his selections. What Coetzee said made sense to most and couldn’t be argued with if I recall correctly.
This year, once again, some of his selections were questioned, BUT: No race involved. Questioned reasons of form and form alone…..
But look at the squad he fielded, trusted and carried through with him, from the S15 to CC – pretty representative indeed.
One coach who doesn’t get flustered with rugby politics anymore is Alistair. Just does his thing and backs his chaps: the black ones, the white ones, the brown ones, the yellow ones, the blue ones.
In fact, Last Sunday’s RAPPORT had a great interview with A Coetzee….He GETS it, the tricky Saffa rugby landscape.
8 Nov 2012, 12:29 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-311:
Just take a drive to the Drakensberg for the day and you’ll be fine.
@Tacitus-314:
Why should Taute push Kirchner out if JdJ comes on?
For crying out loud, the boy was not even deemed the best FB at the Lions. The coaches, both Mitchell and Ackers, preferred Coetzee ahead of him in that very important position.
What the freakin hell did he do this season to command a starting berth with the Bok side, either at outside center or at FB?
8 Nov 2012, 12:29 pm
Understanding Heyneke is like negotiating with the devil in the pits of hell.A total waste of time.
8 Nov 2012, 12:30 pm
@Tacitus-314: And when Jantjies came on against the All Blacks, we got killed despite having an early lead. I am sorry, but Taute kicked the ball directly to Carter which created the try that put us behind the AB’s before Jantjies came on.
Also I believe the defensive errors were mostly due to a untested 13 playing against the best attacking team in world rugby.
Biggest selection error was giving Taute the 13 jersey!
8 Nov 2012, 12:31 pm
@Tacitus-314: Duane and Goosen were thrown in after long injury layoffs? But Chilli needs ‘time’?
Hougaard has been kak out of position on the wing and at 9.
Play Taute at 15, drop Zane (although I like Zane…yes I do), play Juan at 13 – and at the very least players are in their correct positions? No?
WTF is wrong with my logic Smurf?
8 Nov 2012, 12:31 pm
@Horings-323:
Agreed
8 Nov 2012, 12:31 pm
@Tacitus-314:
The argument is the bullshit agenda, if you still can’t see it you’re as delusional as your race afflicted coach
8 Nov 2012, 12:32 pm
@Tacitus-314:
You forgot about Jantjies ahead of Morne on the bench. What’s your take on that.
Hougaard a big match player? Did he show it this year or are you still referring to the 2010 SR final?
8 Nov 2012, 12:33 pm
@wnbb-332: I have decided to enjoy a crack pipe during the Irish Test, as I have a feeling I might be able to ‘channel my thoughts’ to link up with Meyer’s as he vloeks and spits on that walkie talkie.
I’m hoping some enlightenment on Meyer and his mission will follow.
8 Nov 2012, 12:33 pm
@nama1-331:
how did you know that.?..
ek kan nie te veel weg gee nie maar die woorde ‘daar waar dit reen op die klein drakenstein’ is n kode…
8 Nov 2012, 12:34 pm
Taute can be held directly responsible for two tries conceded by the boks against the AB’s.
Take away 14 points and I believe we could’ve won that game.
Let’s be honest about which selections cost us that game.
Sure as hell wasn’t Elton.
8 Nov 2012, 12:36 pm
@goodstuff-327:
potgieter was selected because alberts was out injured as was vermuleun
8 Nov 2012, 12:36 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-334: To be honest, only Duene was a success, pushing Goosen in the team early resulted in a season ending injury.
8 Nov 2012, 12:36 pm
@goodstuff-327: i do see your point, but then dont make it a Bulls mindset, that is a MEYER mindset, he personally scouted Potgieter for the Bulls, obviously thought there were traits that HE likes and wanted to see playing for the Bulls, he dropped the player after he realised that wasnt the case at international level, you cant begrudge a coach for trying out theories on different players, but when they dont work he must admit that he was wrong, which he has done too, my only worry is with Houghaard out of position instead of a proper wing.
Again i will say, this is a Meyer mindset, not a Bulls mindset. if he stuck with 12 out of form Bulls players in in the Boks then i would agree with you that something is fishy, the evidence right now just suggests that he prefers a certain type of player not which team they play for.
8 Nov 2012, 12:37 pm
Meyer also doesn’t rate Charl Mcleod or Keegan Daniel, Joe Pietersen or Deon Fourie.
Imagine the outcry if all of these guys were black as well.
The fact is, Meyer just rates different players to those that many other fans rate.
The fact that some of the overlooked players are black, merely means that there is a race drum to beat for them which the white overlooked players don’t have access to.
Mantashe doesn’t know anything more about rugby than skopskiet or Simon Borchardt or Joe Cardinelli. So his opinion on whether a black player is better than an incumbant is no more valid than that of some WP fan screaming for Deon Fourie’s inclusion.
Everyone’s got an opinion. It is unfortunate that some opinions can be artificially boosted by loading it up with the race card.
8 Nov 2012, 12:38 pm
@skopdiekan-336:
and yet Habana refers to Heyneke in god-like terms?
must be racist.
bladdy twit.
8 Nov 2012, 12:38 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-341: Would have picked Kollisi, Elstadt, Flouw, CJ Stander, there is pantheon of players better than that greese ball.
8 Nov 2012, 12:39 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-330:
His advantage of course is that he was on both sides of the divide as player. I’m sure that experience helps him a lot. Guys like HM will never really understand the true intricacies of our rugby landscape. The bigger problem here is that they also don’t want to learn. For them it is, “my/our way is right and you just have to fit in or **** off.”
8 Nov 2012, 12:40 pm
@goodstuff-342: Exactly. It was an insane move at the time, but he did it because it suited him (the useless feather duster that he is). But now he conveniently mentions Chili’s “long injury layoff” as a reason for not getting a look in…..
He contradicts himself permanently, and that’s why he is looking like a d ## s.
8 Nov 2012, 12:41 pm
@goodstuff-342:
kak, the boks performance of the season so far was vs the ozzies with Goosen who played a very decent first game first up. In fact, we look a completely different team with goosen there than we had with jantjies.
he comes across as the talismatic sort that meyer has always rated.
8 Nov 2012, 12:42 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-348:
agreed.
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