Meyer’s selection shocker
8 Nov 2012
MARK KEOHANE writes that Heyneke Meyer’s failure to include Elton Jantjies in the Bok match 23 cannot be excused or justified.
Meyer’s got this one wrong on every level. A coach lives and dies by his selections but the failure to recognise the merits of Jantjies as a player is made even worse because of the obvious issues surrounding transformation – and the illusion that qualifies for transformation in South African rugby.
I don’t want a numbers game with the national team. I am opposed to quotas because it does a disservice to the merits of selections and especially casts doubt on any black player. Jantjies should not have been included because of his skin colour. He is a merit selection in the match 23 and many would make an argument for him to start ahead of Pat Lambie.
The argument that Jantjies was the player in possession of the No 10 jersey can’t be dismissed without examination. Jantjies played the last 50 minutes against the All Blacks and now can’t make the match 23?
Meyer’s loyalty to Morne Steyn is a weakness in the context of the Boks in 2012. Meyer is doing himself no favours and he certainly is doing Steyn even fewer favours.
I’ve always felt Steyn would make a contribution to the Boks, this season, and in the lead in to the World Cup, but his form doesn’t warrant inclusion at the moment and he is a player drained by being overplayed at every level every for the past four seasons.
Meyer is failing to recognise this. Steyn, so in need of a proper break, should not have been on tour. What he offers the Boks is a known entity. Meyer will learn nothing new from Steyn should he play against Ireland. Steyn will not be wiser or more experienced for getting a cameo role against the Irish.
Meyer had the ideal opportunity to evolve the balance of the match 23, to improve the experience of a player like Jantjies and to provide an opportunity for him. All he has done is insult him.
I don’t care what spin anyone attempts to put on it there is no way this selection of Steyn ahead of Jantjies can be defended. It’s not only conservative it’s bloody disturbing, given the issue of transformation and the lack of national recognition for players like Jantjies and centre Juan de Jongh, who consistently have been among the best in their positions in the country.
De Jongh, the player to provide the inspirational and crucial moment in Western Province’s Currie Cup final win against the Sharks, must know now he isn’t rated as the go to guy. He couldn’t have made a more telling case for inclusion, yet he lost out.
So too Jantjies for Steyn.
It’s crazy when you consider it also comes at a time when the Saru administration has given itself a pat on the back that ‘this time after 20 years of unity’ they want to show genuine commitment to transformation.
I can’t believe the president and CEO of Saru did not guide Meyer on this one. Surely they must have had a whisper in his ear and said ‘No Heyneke. There’s nothing to gain here and everything to lose’. Clearly they didn’t or Jantjies rightfully (on merit) would have at least been in the match 23.
It tells me Meyer is blinded by his belief in Steyn because of a provincial affiliation and it also tells me that the game’s leaders have again failed transformation.
This is not about picking a player because it will appease the politicians. This is not about window-dressing. This is about common sense in the context of South African rugby and transformation and more pertinently it is about common decency in relation to the talents and selection merits of the player.
Just imagine Steyn, given his form this season, was a black player. Imagine what so many would be saying if a black Steyn was in the match 23 on Saturday.
There was a time when the absolute racial prejudice within South African rugby appalled me, but now it just saddens me because it is so inherently engrained when no wrong can be seen in the performances this year of Steyn and no right can be seen in those of Jantjies.
What price then for change when it can’t come naturally and from within? Actions make a statement more powerful than any spoken or written word. Meyer in Dublin was in an all-win situation given the talents of Jantjies and his form this year.
I am mystified he opted for an all-lose selection of Steyn, given what he has produced at Test level this year, but I am dumbfounded that Meyer – in his choice of player and explanation to the media and rugby people of South Africa – obviously believes Steyn is an all-win situation.
Meyer says he needed an insurance policy in the form of Steyn. Why?
This isn’t a World Cup final. This isn’t the final of anything.
Meyer talks of insurance policies in picking an out-of-form goal-kicker who this season averaged a less than 60% goal-kicking strike rate in seven successive Tests and in two of those missed goal kicks that would have won South Africa both Tests.
Would Jantjies have been given seven successive Tests in 2012 for Steyn’s return this season?
Springbok rugby in 2012 needs inspiration and innovation. It certainly does not need a dated and questionable insurance policy.
367 Comments
8 Nov 2012, 12:25 pm
racist dragon!
joking
8 Nov 2012, 12:33 pm
I couldn’t agree more with this article.
8 Nov 2012, 12:33 pm
I think he doesn’t want elton getting techy sitting on the bench for another full 80.
Because lets face it he wants to give Lambie the full 80.
And Morne will be quite happy not playing at all in fact, he’d rather not be there but he is a contracted bok and not injured so is probably obliged to tour.
damded if you do damded if you don’t.
Of course there is an argument that Elton should be starting…but then half the country would be complaining that Lambie is sitting on the bench for another full 80 or even not at all?
8 Nov 2012, 12:36 pm
**** transformation, please Keo, on pure rugby terms EJ should be in there ahead of the Golden Boy.
8 Nov 2012, 12:39 pm
Great article! Can someone please send it to Heyneke Meyer
8 Nov 2012, 12:45 pm
Insofar as Steyn shouldn’t be on tour – I agree 100%.
Lambie is a better #10 than Jantjies IMHO and Lambie should play with Jantjies on the bench.
Kirschner should be out with JdJ at #13 and Taute at #15.
Other than that … seriously dude, you sound like ANC candidates looking for votes just before conference time.
8 Nov 2012, 12:46 pm
I’m looking forward to the Stormers Super rugby campaign next year and couldn’t be bothered if I miss any of these Bok games.
I hope the likes of Elton, Juan, Aplon and Kolisi have a great tournament. It seems like they need to work harder than other players to get into this Bok setup.
8 Nov 2012, 12:49 pm
Keo, I don’t think this is racism, but rather an inability to grasp the extent of the affirmative action required. It’s more about Heyneke’s naivety, wanting to make selection decisions based on his own (pre)conceptions and plans. Affirmative action/transformation means that if a black player is even vaguely as good as a white rival he HAS to be picked in the team. I agree with you — that freedom of selection has to be taken out the coach’s hands or, alternatively, his bosses have to “coach” him into doing that of his own accord. Nothing else will satisfy the pro-transformation lobby. Whether one agrees with this or not — it’s the South African reality.
8 Nov 2012, 12:55 pm
Meyer is a coward.. a racist coward which is even worse than a straight coward.. Meyer is an outright self preservationist two faced sickly racially entrenched and ideologically bent coward.. and he should not be anywhere near the control and management of the SA rugby team.. nowhere near…
8 Nov 2012, 12:57 pm
Well I have said my bit on this.
8 Nov 2012, 12:59 pm
Il repeat what iv said before.
Morne steyn was a breath of fresh air when he first entered the national setup. At that time pienaar nd butch were either injured or out of form.
He played efficiently and even showed variation in this approach when his forward were dominant. However we all knew that morne wasnt dan carter
the time has come for him to step aside, and take a marginal role in the bok squad
lambie, jantjies, goosen (when he bulks up) are the players we should be investing in
im sure mornes a decent person and a good lad very religious also. But his time has passed
jantjies deserves to start a game by now
8 Nov 2012, 13:00 pm
Meyer is a plank.He admitted earlier that Steyn needed a break,but ,if sent back to the Bulls,he would only be selected for them.He was quite correct there,to give him his dues.What is mind boggling is Steyn’s selection for this tour.What changed after making that statement that Steyn needed a break from rugby?After the CC,Meyer had the perfect opportunity to have given Steyn that break,but he didn’t.
8 Nov 2012, 13:03 pm
Meyer’s dishonesty is coming to bite him in the butt… He was a fool when he made his first squad known and has officially got the tag of clown.
Anyone who wants HM as coach, please put up your hand. I was vocal from day one and didn’t sing in the choir of praise singers. He has an agenda and will do everything in his power to ensure he meets it…
The sooner he is shown the door the better for SA rugby in a whole…
You are so right Mark! If Steyn was black he would never have been given so many chances. Poor Elton plays two minutes and then 50 minutes against the world’s best team and is discarded like trash. Morne continuously plays poorly and is selected. Hougaard has been very poor and plays out of position at 11. Taute was poor but gets a second chance! That answers the question of most rugby lovers… JdJ deserved a spot too…
The door is open, walk out
8 Nov 2012, 13:05 pm
Bringing race and racism into this is absolute bull-****. I think this is starting to become personal for Keo, I highly doubt that EJ’s skincolour had any bearing on this selection, maybe Meyer’s provincial bias, yes, but to now try and create a second Geo Cronje/Quinton Davids scenario is pathetic.
More and more what Graeme Joffe says are starting to make sense, this article says Keo has an agenda, he has gone from a Heyneke Meyer supporter, to someone spreading discord, and I doubt whether it is for the benefit of SA Rugby.
Keo should rather be focusing on the Kings and their transformation agenda, as they are a team that he’s been advocating for a while now, I mean they actually have their Super 15 spot down because they are supposed to be transformation super-heroes, but they couldn’t buy a player of colour in their promotion / relegation matches against the Cheetahs.
8 Nov 2012, 13:08 pm
@thesaint-14:
I disagree. Leave out racism then answer how Taute gets a second chance after such a poor showing… Be consistent…
8 Nov 2012, 13:10 pm
Brilliant article Keo. Think its the first time I’ve ever read one of your articles and thought so . I think your talents as a sports writer are better equipped to comment on political situations rather than the nuts and bolts of Rugby
Meyer must lack some serious foresight. The truth of the matter is he will take care of his own at any cost .Ill give him till the end of next years Castle Rugby Championship to deliver, thereafter I will not withhold any summations I have of him as a person/coach.
8 Nov 2012, 13:17 pm
Taute for Kircher, Mvovo for Hougaard, De Jongh for Taute, Jantjies for Steyn. F..all to do with colour, just form.
And before Hondo comes moaning his racist nonense, we all know he is in fact Daniel Hondo, the Zimbabean winger and occasional captain.
8 Nov 2012, 13:19 pm
Taute is an overrated player.Seriously,I don’t see the fuss here.Hopefully he will not see out the season at my beloved Stormers.
8 Nov 2012, 13:20 pm
@thesaint-14:
I agree with you … and there’s another article on this site saying that Lambie should start in all 3 tests – who didn’t get the Memo ??? (LMAO).
I do understand that SA has it’s own set of challenges that the rest of the world doesn’t have to deal with; but, ‘effing racists (and politicians) should stay out of all sport … coaches pick squads and teams, then get judged on their results.
8 Nov 2012, 13:22 pm
As a none South African, its a very poor article. Basically calling the man a racist because he didn’t select a black play is in itself racist.
8 Nov 2012, 13:23 pm
@Gumboots-15: Meyer isn’t a racist. He is a thicko, and a man of weak character, who from day 1 has shown that he WON’T trust anyone who isn’t in his ‘circle of trust’
Fucknows how one gains entry into that circle though……therein lies the fukkup.
8 Nov 2012, 13:23 pm
@phalanx-20: This issue is to big for you,mate.Thanks for trying though.
8 Nov 2012, 13:24 pm
@Gumboots-15: From day one Meyer has had an obsession with size, he said so much before leaving for Europe. Jake White did the same, playing big guys ahead of small guys, 50% of bloggers on this site feels De Jongh is too small, especially in European conditions.
I dissagree, I think he will be able to cope, and that the fact he is left out is stupid, because he is a better player than Taute in that position, read well, BETTER player, not DARKER player.
I am a huge De Jongh, Aplon, Kolisi etc. fan, but trying to get them selected using politics as a backdrop does them a disservice. I am 100% certain, they would prefer being picked on merit, rather than being picked after a campaign starting with an article like this.
8 Nov 2012, 13:24 pm
@thesaint-14: The article captures what 90% of the rugby public think. I don’t think there is any hidden or political agenda here.
HM has shown a total lack of judgement right from the start and his latest team selection, with the exception of Lambie, is disgusting. Everyone knows that JdJ should’ve been at 13 and Taute at 15. I reckon HM has pushed his luck too far and he’ll be out after this tour, mark my words. He has now p1ssed off the public, politicians and certainly quite a few players in his “team”.
It often feels as though HM watches different rugby games to almost everyone else. He seems to only value and rate Bulls players and does not have the savvy to understand the political necessities or even subtleties of coaching the national team in SA. I have absolutely no confidence in him at all, even less than I had in PdV.
8 Nov 2012, 13:25 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-21: You need dodgy-looking blue eyes to get into the circle.
8 Nov 2012, 13:25 pm
Good work Keo (first time those words have left my fingertips!). Elton Jantijies is unquestionably one of the two best flyhalves available and there is no reason, except for misplaced loyalty, for Meyer to have Steyn on the bench. I rate Lambie as a marginally better all round player, and possibly a shade more consistent, but Jantjies is an excellent flyhalf and should flyhalf and should definitely be on the bench at least.
De Jongh is excluded because Meyer wants big players who can dominate the tackle situation and go forward in contact. Well, De Jongh at least makes his tackles, which is more than we can say for Taute at 13 – he missed 3 crucial ones against the Kiwis. Now, I’m not knocking Taute, and I think he’s an exceptional fullback. In fact, I would have him in my starting XV in that position, but 13 has often been called the toughest defensive channel, and it needs a specialist. De Jongh is a brilliant tackler, and I really don’t think that his lack of bulk costs us anything, as he has a big heart and is powerful despite his short stature. He is also one of the few backline players in SA who provide that moment of magic two or three times a game that can change everything. With Frans out, he is head and shoulders better than any of our other options and should be in.
8 Nov 2012, 13:26 pm
Ah that’s Keo for you.
Always knows when the timing is impeccable for jumping on any particular bandwagon.
8 Nov 2012, 13:27 pm
Should we not start some sort of online sweepstakes?
When will Meyer resign, get booted? Or will he last his full term?
8 Nov 2012, 13:27 pm
Keo jumping on the wagon again, causing a racial stir in sport to up the responses on blog. Cheap – but I will say that I think Steyn has reached sell by for now, while I think Elton was average to Kuk in CC semi which everyone has forgotten about. Sending Steyn on tour is pointless for the future. Oh and I think If taute wants to play top level fullback he needs to learn how to place kick and…. Pull up his socks. But I do rate him
8 Nov 2012, 13:29 pm
Ok I have to disagree with this the reason Steyn is there is incase Lambie goes down early so against a strong opponent like Ireland the boks might go into a kicking contest.
I am a Jantjes fan and yes he should be in the team but perhaps not for this game.
However De Jongh should definetly be starting and the inclusion of Taute a 13 makes no sense considering De Jongh has partnered De Villiers for years.
Taute would have been good off the bench covering all options from 11 to 15 this woulf have made space for Mapoe instead of Mvovo on bench.
8 Nov 2012, 13:29 pm
@Tacitus-27: Yup, gives a new meaning to go with the flow…
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-28: I think he will last his term, gonna have some trouble, but White also had, in fact, White go directly interfered with, yet he still finished his term.
8 Nov 2012, 13:30 pm
Meyer is under pressure with his lower than expected win rate this year.
He will take 1 point wins on tour, as long as they are wins. Hence his desire for insurance on the bench.
Let’s face it, when he picked Goosen against the All Blacks that was already a step into the unknown. But when Goosen went off injured and he was suddenly stuck with Elton for the large remainder of the game, well, that was never part of the plan.
And the end result of that game certainly did nothing to change that view.
8 Nov 2012, 13:30 pm
Where’s the oke that set up Andre Markgraaff when you needed him??
8 Nov 2012, 13:30 pm
@PissAnt-10:
Please share again for those who missed it…..or direct me to where it was said.
8 Nov 2012, 13:31 pm
I think Lambie is by far the best fly half we got at the moment. Elton is good but not as good as Lambie. But Elton should be there instead of Morne. He has had his chance and now should pack his bag. What is crazy is HM claims he is an insurance policy. Does he really believe that the NH teams will pose any threat to us. Lambie and Elton can handle the pressure of test rugby up north. Either flyhalf can control the game enough to win it for the Boks. If it was the all blacks maybe it might make sense but still.
8 Nov 2012, 13:33 pm
@phalanx-20: read it again. Keo is not calling Meyer a racist. He’s saying that Jantjies is a better player than Steyn, and merely points out this incorrect selection will be in the spotlight even more than usual, due to the unavoidable fact that SA Rugby is a very race-sensitive environment.
The ANC spokesperson, Gwede Mantashe HAS called Meyer a racist and it’s all over our news today, so Keo is commenting on a currently relevant topic and making the point that Meyer has invited this criticism by passing over the better player (who happens to be black) in favour of a white guy who’s not good enough. I don’t think Meyer is racist, but I do think his loyalty to former Bulls players is blinding him, and his selection of Kirchner over Taute or Ludik is further evidence of this, with the opposite race situation. In the case of Jantjies his stubborn backing of his “inner circle” has caused the race police to make a fuss. Keo, to be fair on the man who I’ve often criticized, is not part of that group and his article is clearly based around the fact that he feels (as most of us do) that Jantjies is a better player than Steyn.
8 Nov 2012, 13:35 pm
I”m telling you, De Jongh could lift his career ceiling significantly by just getting rid of that stupid dance.
Meyer’s not into that kind of thing.
8 Nov 2012, 13:35 pm
@Tacitus-32: “and he was suddenly stuck with Elton for the large remainder of the game, well, that was never part of the plan”???????????????????????
Go back and read what you have written, and then tell me again why we have the fuckingissues we DO have in our rugby…….
Tonight I stick pins a Taccy voodoo doll.
8 Nov 2012, 13:37 pm
@Tacitus-37:
or by moving to the Bulls!!
8 Nov 2012, 13:37 pm
@pokkel-34:
ANC thread, from comment 150 I think.
8 Nov 2012, 13:37 pm
This is so damn sad, bloody PR nightmare for SA Rugby.
Many people said this early in the tests against England. HM’s missplaced loyalty to certain players will cost him his job. This is similair to PDV and Januarie, it’s like there is no reasoning with the man.
8 Nov 2012, 13:38 pm
@PissAnt-40:
Thanks
8 Nov 2012, 13:39 pm
@pokkel-39:
Only 3 Bulls in the current team (1 of them only because Bekker is injured), and still the guys are moaning. They apparently will only be happy once there are zero Bulls.
8 Nov 2012, 13:41 pm
@Tacitus-37: Valid point, but he could’ve potentially watched JdJ doing that silly dance thing three times on Saturday and he I think he would’ve enjoyed it. Missed opportunity.
8 Nov 2012, 13:42 pm
@PissAnt-40:
Cheeky, is that you?
8 Nov 2012, 13:43 pm
@Tacitus-37: Well then g #d help the poor Bok candidates who happen to enjoy death metal and are atheist to boot……
Your man Meyer is a wankiepedia of conservative kak.
Ditto for you.
8 Nov 2012, 13:43 pm
Ai Taccie.You surely can’t argue with a chap walking around his fortified kleinhoewe with wires protruding from his arse hole,willing rather to blow up himself than to be touched/harmed by a black man.
8 Nov 2012, 13:43 pm
Best article i’ve read in ages on Keo. Nothing to do with quotas/affirmative action but simply Meyers inability to adapt to players outside his own bubble. Kirchner and Steyn being selected ahead of Jantjies and De Jongh says it all.
The problem with Divvy before senior players took over was he saw one approach to play the game – Meyer exactly the same
8 Nov 2012, 13:43 pm
@wnbb-47:
Er…?
8 Nov 2012, 13:43 pm
The ANC will come strong on Meyer and he has lots top answer for.
How can Jantjies not make the squad?
He should be back-up.
8 Nov 2012, 13:45 pm
HM lives in Mount Cuckooland.
seriously .
8 Nov 2012, 13:45 pm
If the definition of insanity is trying the same thing more than once and expecting a different outcome, then HM must be insane, how can an insane man be allowed to coach the Boks or is that simply a prerequisite nowadays?
8 Nov 2012, 13:47 pm
@Tacitus-43: I feel for you Tac. I think HM has cocked up here around MS and Taute for me should be starting at 15 with Kirchner benched but all in all I don’t think there is a Bulls bias the way some claim
8 Nov 2012, 13:49 pm
Keo, why is there no rss feed for your website? Or is there? i.e. I can’t get it to work on Netvibes, but it does have a widget on iGoogle.
8 Nov 2012, 13:49 pm
we need an unaffiliated coach, read: ATHEIST.
8 Nov 2012, 13:49 pm
Forget race and politics, a village somewhere is missing there idiot! HM you do a disservice to South African rugby. No, infact you do a disservice to the game of rugby – period. You actions are insulting and humiliating. They lack vision, perception and shows your how rock hard your head.
What makes this even harder to understand is how SARFU can allow this? Surely someone can step in and do something?! And who exactly is on this selection panel??
If HM is unable to see, what is blatantly obvious and apparent to the rest of the rugby world… WTF is he doing coaching rugby?!? Do you think Krusty would make any of the top 9 International teams?! Do you think Morne would make any of the these teams? So why the bloody hell are they in our team?!?!?!
HM you suck!! You are an epic fail and double face palm. I have lost what little respect I had for you. Even if we win, it will be a soured and hollow victory, because I can no longer tolerate the injustice of what you have done.
8 Nov 2012, 13:49 pm
@Tacitus-45:
Remember the article I wrote in April Tac?
Where I said that opinions on Meyer will become divided quicker than you can say provincialism?
Remember how I mentioned that public perception is fueled by media?
Before he selected his first test team I said his provincial bias will be used as an excuse by many.
The only thing I do find surprising is that it took this long for the racism beast to rear its head.
I am sure you remember, because I remember you commenting on that article.
8 Nov 2012, 13:50 pm
@Skeppie-53:
I agree his faith in Morne Steyn lasted too long. And it hurt his coaching position a lot.
And I agree with Lambie starting ahead of Steyn.
But I also feel that Morne is a better insurance policy than Elton, who is not proven in the pressure situation of test rugby. Morne’s been there. So if Lambie gets injured in the first minute, or has a terrible day, I’d rather have the known – albeit distinctly average at the moment – Steyn there as backup, than the unkonwn Elton.
8 Nov 2012, 13:51 pm
@Skeppie-53: I think when folk use the term ‘Bulls bias’, they are referring to a perceived ‘conservatism and stubborness, topped off with a rigid and immovable philosophy’ more than what they are to Bulls players starting for the Boks….
8 Nov 2012, 13:51 pm
@PissAnt-57:
I remember it very well. And at the time I said if he wins 80% of his tests, he could give them the finger.
Now that he hasn’t, he can’t. It’s therefore a tough situation, but of his own making, given the underperformance of his team to date.
He hasn’t produced the goods, and is now paying the price for it.
8 Nov 2012, 13:51 pm
What’s concerning for me is Meyer saying how he wants to commit to two flyhalves next year in the build-up towards the world cup.
It is nonsensical talk that can only isolate players and damage their confidence.
It appears a fit Johann Goosen is Meyer’s number 1 choice at flyhalf.
Now Lambie, Jantjies and Steyn must think that there is only room for one of them moving forward.
This is nonsense, surely.
8 Nov 2012, 13:54 pm
@Tacitus-60:
Tac, he could have won 80% of his tests it would not have mattered. The mutterings of this started after the 3-test series against the Poms which read 2 wins and 1 draw.
Actually, it happened before he even selected his first test team.
8 Nov 2012, 13:54 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-59: Fair point, my issues with HM are also based on his ultra conservatism but this should be seen a a critisism of his coaching style and not something that should be held against the Bulls
8 Nov 2012, 13:54 pm
Mark Keohane I applaud your guts. I’m just dissapointed that Gwede Mantashe’s comments came in at the same time, cause it will seem like political rhetoric, and ANC meddling, when he is speaking as the truth as a rugby supporter. I have been swearing since team announcement and this is after shaking my head in disbelief since the England tests. I know Johan Goosen is good, but has he really done so much to serve so much more opportunity than Elton Jantjies, Curry Cup winner and record holder?
Leave that, what really eeks me is the Juan de Jongh saga! The man has never ever ever let the Springboks down. Heyneke Meyer bemoans the loss and lack of experience, and talks up combinations in the team yet he overlooks one of the most experienced midfield combinations in the country, JdV and JdJ, it makes no sense. What has Jaco Taute done to deserve a place in the starting line up, even above Kirschner? Look at those Rugby Championship games objectively and you will realise that Zane was one of the only Springboks who can hold thier heads up high, given HM’s game plan. Zane was solid at the back, kicked well out of hand and scored tries.
Heyneke is succesfully killing the career, Keegan Daniels, of one of the most talented loose forwards in this country since God Skinstad, he will do the same to Jantjies and De Jongh while we sit idley by. Less than 5 minutes game time at Loftus, what an insult! Thank goodness Lambie, the other soutie, had the guts to speak out, now he gets game time.
8 Nov 2012, 13:54 pm
@puff-61:
It’s obviously Goosen 1, Lambie 2.
Previously it was Goosen 1, Steyn 2. But I think that plan has been changed by Steyn’s obvious decline.
The stark reality is that Elton never was and still isn’t part of that plan.
Tough luck. Gary Botha, Ettiene Botha, various great All Black hookers in the time of Fitzpatrick, Stephen Donnel, Stephen Brett and a heck of a lot of other decent players have had to suck it up like that over the years.
There’s no reason for Elton to get special treatment. The coach can put his faith in whom he chooses to. The only criticism comes when he doesn’t perform.
If he doesn’t up his winning ratio, then he must endure the consequences. If he does up his ratio to where we should be, then the critics can be damned.
It’s as simple as that.
8 Nov 2012, 13:55 pm
@Tacitus-58: I understand his reasoning but he is at sometime going to have to try Jantjies, why not now on a year end tour that does not hold as much weight as a rugby championship? My gripe with him is more around the JDJ/Taute issue
8 Nov 2012, 13:56 pm
Good article Keo. For what it is worth I do not believe that Meyer is a racist. However it is the ingrained institutionalised thinking of the Afrikaner to think a certain way. Sorry yes a generalisation but not far from accurate.
Certain managers prefer to surround themselves with people of ‘their ilk’. Mourinho bought a few Portuguese players when at Chelsea. Benitez did the same at Liverpool. Versus….Alex Ferguson who continues to succeed because he has the ability to think above this way of thinking.
How Meyer selected Potgieter ahead of Kolisi, Taute ahead of JdJ and Steyn ahead of Jantjies is a mystery (I do rate Taute at FB and believe he should be starting there).
Sadly Meyer is not moving Bok rugby forward. The world has changed. SA Rugby needs visionaries. Otherwise we will continue to slip……..
8 Nov 2012, 13:56 pm
As a person of colour i dont think HM is racist
but instead biased. Not along provencial lines either. But instead, his game plan aparently requires a certain type of player per position
its the only way i can figure him selecting oliver , jj over jdj
steyns selection at the beginning of the year was clearly to get the ball rolling, and then later on blood a more multi skilled pivot. Theres no way HM believes that MS wit all his good intensions and limited ability can help us become the number one team in the world, now ones that delutional.. I hope
HM seems at times unable to think with logic, cos his player management of both steyn and more importantly everyones blue eye boy goosen has been down right stupid at time
his baised leads him to disgard the merits of certain players for because they fit into the picture he has in his head abt what that position should look like
why his been itching to select tuate since his been appointed is because meyer looks over tah nz And sees there centre option, and he notices that not only do they have passing skills but bulk to. Thus he wants tuate to be the next smith or nonu or kahui
his not dropping jdj because he doesnt like coloured ppl, his dropping jdj cause he never wants to pick a small in relation to the position international centre ever
i still dont agree with it though
8 Nov 2012, 13:57 pm
@Skeppie-66:
Why must he try him at some time?
If he has two young flyhalves in Goosen and Lambie who he rates higher, then it is perfectly acceptable if Elton never gets a chance.
You don’t deserve a chance to play for the Boks. You are fortunate if you get it.
8 Nov 2012, 13:57 pm
Meyer is making life very difficult for himself.
He has alienated support from many corners of the Cape by consistently excluding JDJ and Aplon from his team / squads. He has done this even before his first test in charge.
He has been arrogant in leaving out Heinrich Brussow for the English series, trying to prove the rugby world that you don’t need a fetcher. He had to recall Louw during the RC.
He has consistently selected a tired and well-below-par Morne Steyn.
His player management is criticised, particularly in terms of JDJ, Jantjies, Lambie and Chilliboy. He does not build any trust with these players.
I think a lot of this “I will show everyone” attitude stems from the fact that he feels politics screwed him over when PDV was appointed ahead of him years ago.
8 Nov 2012, 13:57 pm
@numba4lock-68:
Great post.
8 Nov 2012, 13:59 pm
@wnbb-33: Piet & Andre Bester your phones are ringing!
8 Nov 2012, 14:00 pm
@Tacitus-69: Tac,
You don’t pick one player this day, then another one in his place the next day, for no apparent reason.
Why was Jantjies suddenly dropped?
8 Nov 2012, 14:01 pm
@Skeppie-63: In an ideal world yes. In the world of SA rugby – no. I don’t even see his issues as a coaching weakness…..it’s a character weakness first and foremost.
8 Nov 2012, 14:01 pm
@willievz-73:
Because Lambie outperformed him in the latter stages of the Currie Cup. And while people seem to disagree, I am convinced that Meyer was uncomfortable with how things went against the All Blacks once Goosen went off.
8 Nov 2012, 14:02 pm
my warning lights started flickering when he announced that 1 st group of 45….
No Brussow
No aplon
No jdv
No flo
Tried to give the oke the benefit of the doubt…..still trying to in fact.
Not saying he is a racist…..that is speculation …..
But I am saying he is farken dof if he did not think these things through.
He has now opened Pandoras box….and all of us ordinary folk gonna have to suffer while politicians get involved.
HM will not handle the heat…..he has dug a deep grave …
Mallet ?
8 Nov 2012, 14:03 pm
@Tacitus-69: I agree with the sentiment but at the moment EJ is in the top two as Goosen is injured….using the inexperience line as a reason not to pick him even though he is the no2 is flawed
8 Nov 2012, 14:04 pm
@sonofgun-36:
Nothing wrong with my reading. Keohane brought race into the team selection argument. He might not have called HM anything but there was insinuation there. Its as clear as day.
8 Nov 2012, 14:04 pm
@Tacitus-75: I am not talking about Lambie.
I am talking about Jantjies and Steyn.
Why is Steyn suddenly in the 23, ahead of Jantjies, who was initially ahead of Lambie?
How does that affect the confidence of the players?
8 Nov 2012, 14:05 pm
At those who “applaud Keo’s courage” for posting this article, I can only laugh.
This isn’t courage. It’s the opposite. It’s opportunism of the highest order.
8 Nov 2012, 14:06 pm
@Tacitus-75: maybe, but i’ve been helluva uncomfortable with the way things have gone most times Morne Steyn has taken the pitch for the Boks over the past couple of years. We drew with Argentina for crying out loud! I’d rather go with someone talented even if relatively untested, than this formless fellow who has consistently failed his many tests in recent months.
8 Nov 2012, 14:07 pm
@willievz-79:
Steyn?
Steyn was never dropped. He was rested. He moved down one step in the pecking order, with Goosen moving up to no.1. What’s changed since then is that Lambie has now moved up to nr.2, with Steyn moving down to nr.3.
With Goosen out, it is now Lambie 1, Steyn 2.
Elton was only picked because Steyn was deliberately rested for a few games.
8 Nov 2012, 14:10 pm
Don’t foresee a WC tournament coming to our shores soon.With the way things are going in rugby k don’t foresee the government giving SARU any financial guarantees until this sickness in SA rugby is cured.I really questioned this transformation indaba held recently.Are they planning another go at hosting the WC and now wants to sweet talk the government??
8 Nov 2012, 14:11 pm
http://www.sport24.co.za/MySport24/Meyer-flawed-but-not-racist-20121108
Read it … then have a good chuckle – lol !!!
8 Nov 2012, 14:11 pm
@Tacitus-82: Tac sorry but you do not have the ability to be impartial. Your Bulls bias is obvious. Steyn should not be a Bok. He is limited and a liability.
8 Nov 2012, 14:14 pm
@Tacitus-82: the point is that Steyn SHOULD have been dropped. It’s not about who’s the incumbent or whatever, but rather the fact that he’s been really poor for a long time. You don’t throw a player away, but it’s been a couple of seasons since Morne was consistently playing better than other SA flyhalves, and he needs to go back to provincial rugby and try to be the best in SA again. I doubt he’ll get there again, but if he does, more power to him. Until then, Jantjies should be in the squad as the better player over the past season or two.
8 Nov 2012, 14:16 pm
@Tacitus-80: This is writing of unquestionable quality and in the interest of public discourse.
8 Nov 2012, 14:17 pm
This whole racism charge against Heyneke is for me a red herring. Whether one really believes Heyneke is a racist or not, the fact of the matter is that this dude keeps making some shocking decisions which make no sense whatsoever to most of the general public.
It’s expected for the media and public to complain about certain selections, regardless of the coach, because we all have our own opinions. But the selections that Heyneke often makes are just too dumbfounding and simply shocking.
8 Nov 2012, 14:20 pm
M Steyn should be in Pretoria resting….
Taute should be on bench Saturday.
Jantjes on bench with JDJ starting….then the country would have been happy….and merit would have the winner…
and politicians would have been doing what they should be doing…
now this bloody mess
8 Nov 2012, 14:23 pm
@lesiba-88: I don’t believe he’s a racist myself,but just one very afraid man.He desperately wants to be a successful Bok coach therefore he believes that he needs to surround himself with people that he can trust.In his warped thinking he actually believes that the bigger the player the better.
8 Nov 2012, 14:24 pm
Great article Keo.
Now do you still think there’s NO reason whatsoever for non-white SA citizens to support the Allblacks instead of the boks?
Surely your well written article above is enough of a compelling reason?
Would love to hear your opinion.
8 Nov 2012, 14:25 pm
@phalanx-78: You’re criticizing Keo’s journalism, which is something I’ve been known to do, but in this instance I think he’s written a good piece. The “news” is not just Meyer’s selections; it’s the fact that the government and the ANC have commented on this and their is a storm of racial offense brewing. Is a good journalist supposed to ignore that or comment on it? Keo has NOT brought up the race issue – it’s all over the news, and Gwede Mantashe is probably the one we should credit with bringing it up. The point Keo has made, which I think is a good one, is that Meyer has (probably inadvertently) cause a lot of trouble for himself that could have been so easily avoided with the right selection. Not the politically correct selection, but the one that most rugby folk would agree should have been made.
8 Nov 2012, 14:27 pm
I agree with Keo total shocker!
Players like Potgieter also should never get picked ahead of someone like Kolisi for example…
And picking a white wing… when you have the best in the business in Mvovo… ridiculous!
HM could make life a lot easier…
8 Nov 2012, 14:28 pm
Although I agree with Keohane and the majority of posts, I don’t think that his player selections are half as bad as his support staff he chose.
Even if we had a Carter or a SBW, they would also have looked like plonkers under the guidance of Ricardo as back line coach and HM’s game plan
8 Nov 2012, 14:28 pm
@grant10-89: just think of how excited the nation would be right now if we had a braver coach and he had selected a backline comprising Hougaard, Lambie, Habana, JDV, JDJ, Mvovo and Taute? I’m not talking about abandoning our traditional strengths or playing festival 7s – simply putting out a team that can control territory and defend brilliantly whilst still hurting you with flair, speed and variation when it’s on. I think our forward selections are pretty solid, and this backline could have been very exciting behind our current pack.
8 Nov 2012, 14:30 pm
Nobody is saying that Jantjies should start ahead of Lambie,but,surely,the continued selection of Steyn leaves a bitter taste in the mouth.JdJ’s non-selection is mind-boggling to say the least.
8 Nov 2012, 14:31 pm
It is a shocking selection whichever way you look at it. If Jantjies was picked ahead of Steyn against the AB then what has changed over a month or so? If he was ‘rested’ then again…..what has changed in a month or so? If you rest a player then give him a decent break and find form in next years Super Rugby then fight his way back in the team to justify his selection. The truth of the matter is that Steyn is picked on reputation, what he has achieved in the past and HM is in HOPE that will play his way into form. This reminds me of an interview a while back with Jake White when he said HM will always fall back on what he trusts or feels comfortable with ie in this case Morne Steyn….irrespective of form. And yes he is not starting but what kind of a message does that send to a guy like Elton…who bar the semi in the currie cup, was in great form.
8 Nov 2012, 14:31 pm
@nortierd-94: Have to agree the biggest quotas in the team are the bulls quotas of McFarland, Koen and Luabscher.
Truly pathetic assistant coaches!
8 Nov 2012, 14:34 pm
So much of the stuff on the other thread will be repeated here.
8 Nov 2012, 14:34 pm
I’m appalled by Keo’s sudden change of heart. Just a mere search through the archives and you will see him calling us dinosaurs for our labelling Meyer biased for his continued selection of Steyn and Kirchner! Why now are you retracting that Keo?
Its provincial bias, plain for all to see as is his selection of Kirchner. Its not a colour issue with Meyer…but it looks that way now doesn’t it.
8 Nov 2012, 14:36 pm
@thesaint-23:
They would be on merit if selected. They are actually showing better form than those HM did select.
8 Nov 2012, 14:36 pm
@thesaint-14
http://www.sport24.co.za/Columnists/GraemeJoffe/SA-gravy-train-Sports-awards-20121108
And just to prove your point beyond and shadow of doubt ….
8 Nov 2012, 14:37 pm
@sonofgun-92:
Good post.
Too many times, Heyneke keeps making decisions that make absolutely no sense whatsoever to most of us, infuriatingly so. That is why I’m not surprised why Gwede (whether you agree with him or not) came in with the race issue to try make sense of why Elton was left out. Like the rest of us, Gwede is pulling his hair out (the little he has anyway) and merely trying to make sense of Heyneke’s shocking selections.
How could Elton, who has been in such good form recently, be moved so quickly out of the team when he hasn’t been given an opportunity to prove himself? What more does JDJ have to do to get the recognition he deserves over a player who is not playing his natural position? Heyneke can’t give any answers perfectly answering these questions which is why people are coming up with speculation, including the race card.
8 Nov 2012, 14:37 pm
@Dawn-99: ok.
8 Nov 2012, 14:43 pm
@Tacitus-37:
But he likes players climbing rugby poles proclaiming the end is nigh…
8 Nov 2012, 14:45 pm
@Tacitus-82:
“Steyn was never dropped. He was rested.”
A Keo classic.
8 Nov 2012, 14:46 pm
dis oor die kak van die ANC en quotas wat ek so lekker kry as bafana bafana verloor…. ons party elke naweek, want bafana verloor elke naweek!
8 Nov 2012, 14:47 pm
en as Thami Tokoloshe more speel, support ek Australia! want daai is ‘n quota wat vir niks skrik nie
8 Nov 2012, 14:50 pm
@suffer_guy-108: Nodearlordnooooooooooooooooooooooooo, how will SA cricket survive without your support.
We might as well throw the series and our No 1 ranking before we start.
Yes, you really ARE that important to the team…….
***cockroachschlong***
8 Nov 2012, 14:51 pm
With regards to JDJ
I don’t quite understand the reasoning behind his non-selection besides the obvious of course (size).
I mean HM has stated that with all due respect to the Sharks, you have to look at who JDJ played against in the final and through the currie cup…..and that he wont pick a player on a few good games but rather on impressive performances over a period of time…..ok fair enough…..But then bases Lambies selection at FH on the last few CC games that impressed him tactically….who a few months ago rated as a FB and not a FH.
JDJ should be starting on Saturday……simple reasoning is that he is in form and is a SPECIALIST centre. Taute as good as he is, is not a centre by his own admission and only filled in for the lions there due to their lack of depth at centre. He wants to be a 15 and HM sees him as a15 but yet is selected at 13??? Baffling.
Now Taute can go on and have a blinder on Saturday but i wont justify his selection over JDJ due to the simple reason that this is a short term/stop gap selection and wont trust a specialist in JDJ but rather a filler in Taute. Bad player management as JDJ will now feel he is not good enough in the eyes if the coach.
I don’t think HM is a bad coach. In fact in think he could be a great coach….But some of his selections are raising more questions than answers and his making life very difficult for himself. Add to fact that his win/loss ratio is not good and you have a coach under serious pressure.
8 Nov 2012, 14:56 pm
quotas kleinveldt, thami & duminy ,,,,,
8 Nov 2012, 14:59 pm
I cannot describe how much I despise the Nimby (Not in my back yard) lily liberal champagne socialist brigade of which many “enlightened” souls here on Keo are a part of, including the w.ee man himself… other than to possibly line all of them up near an open trench and shoot them farken dead as a service to honest mankind…
But hellsteeth I cannot agree more with this article.
8 Nov 2012, 14:59 pm
Jinne Keo. I wish I could believed what you written but your last gram of integrity was snarfed years ago.
Jumping on the merit vs quota bandwagon when the topic is the flavour of the week.
But we all know what his saying is 100% correct. Elton, the Goose and Lambie is the future and Steyn is not. How must Elton feel after giving his all against the AB’s. His had to work flippin hard for every single cap his received.
I’m a big HM fan but his really starting to piss me off.
8 Nov 2012, 15:04 pm
How can HM be a (white) racist favouring white over coloured & black players when he steadfastly selects Kirchner at #15 ahead of arguably more accomplished (white) fullbacks such as Lambie & Ludik? And this in the face of vicious criticism (from predominantly white) armchair selectors?
(shakes head)
imo HM suffers from one obvious affliction: top down “game plan lockjaw” & an associated single minded belief in the type of attributes that his players must possess in order to execute his game plan.
Seems to me that HM favours players that are big, strong, heavy, defensively oriented, good kickers, good catchers, good chasers, good tacklers, and impressionable (perhaps in the obedient ‘ja, oom’-sense?) – Conformist, robotic, metronomic players that will uncritically follow orders & become true believers & adherents of the gospel of St Heyneke – I guess this is what he means with that much sought after, yet elusive player attribute, “mental toughness”, a kind of “staaldraadedness”?
His game plan apparently does not place much value on natural ball playing skills (other than catching & kicking proficiency), flair, intuition, “reading the situation & playing the moment”, silky handling, linking & offloading skills, creating space & running into gaps, fleet footedness, counter attacking skill, risk-taking, etc. (There is simply no ways Gysie Pienaar would’ve made an HM-selected Bok XV).
Nope, conservative structure is the name of Heyneke’s game. And he selects his match day squads accordingly. That does not make him a racist or a fool – perhaps just ultimately unsuccessful at the highest level – but I guess the jury is still out & by end 2013 we’ll know for sure, one way or the other.
PS: I too am a Juan DJ & Elton J fan, & had I been a selector, would’ve selected that duo ahead of Jaco Taute & Morne S; notwithstanding I am not prepared to brand HM a racist for that (imo) poor selection judgment.
8 Nov 2012, 15:07 pm
@Angostura-114: Goood post! HM is not racist….conservative yes but racist no.
8 Nov 2012, 15:07 pm
HM, as they say in the Cape – you musn’t push!
Stain should’ve stayed at home. End of.
8 Nov 2012, 15:08 pm
@TheDeleted-56: This is actually a hilarious post… essentially the author is making a point here about Meyer’s intelligence… or lack of, by stating:
- “Forget race and politics, a village somewhere is missing there idiot!”
- “You actions are insulting and humiliating. They lack vision, perception and shows your how rock hard your head.”
- “HM you suck!! You are an epic fail and double face palm.”
Chrissakes, a more unintentionally ironic post is hard to find….
8 Nov 2012, 15:11 pm
@suffer_guy-111: kleinveildt and duminy qoutas?? Never. I’m sure you would say Amla and Philander are quotas too. Kleinveldt has proven himself in the domestic scene just like Philander did to earn his way into the squad, and he is the type of back up bowler Donald likes….hits the deck hard….similar to Marchant de Lange who is now injured and would have toured.
Duminy is a class player and has proven himself at international stage averaging over 40. He took his opportunity by scoring hundreds whenever he got his chance and leap frogged ashwell prince. In fact he singled handedly won the last test he played against Aus in Aus with a record partnership with dale steyn scoring 160 odd if im not mistaken.
Thami is a puzzling selection as i think there are better wicket keeper batsman in SA but with regards to the other 2 you are waaaayyyyyy off the mark.
8 Nov 2012, 15:11 pm
@Skeppie-115:
conservative and stupid
8 Nov 2012, 15:15 pm
@Angostura-114:
Most people agree. I think HM lacks where it is most needed. He doesn’t come across as being very intelligent and says things and then contradicts himself… Sad really… He don’t fill anyone with confidence… imagine the players…
8 Nov 2012, 15:18 pm
@Mustard-118:
“I’m sure you would say Amla and Philander are quotas too.”
Of course he says that. Every POC is a quota in Suffer’s eyes.
Thami is the best glove man in the country. His batting has improved in leaps and bounds and he was amongst the top scorers for the past couple of seasons, if I’m not mistaken.
8 Nov 2012, 15:18 pm
@nama1-119: Nah Nam’s not stupid, he has an excellent rugby brain…too conservative, for sure. At this point I think his rugby intellect is being overruled by his conservatism though.
8 Nov 2012, 15:19 pm
@sonofgun-95: with you mate….
8 Nov 2012, 15:20 pm
If HM doesn’t win 3 from 3 on this tour he will come back to a barrage of criticism from the media a perhaps even politicians from the looks of things. I hope for his sake that they win 3 from 3 otherwise he is going to find out just how hard it is to be a bok coach.
8 Nov 2012, 15:21 pm
@nama1-121: Nam’s Thami should not be in the side, with AB as wicky we can include Duminy and Rudolph. Question then is, is Thami’s glovework better relativley against AB’s glovework as opposed to his batting against Duminy/Rudolph. Surely you do not claim racism in cricket? We have fantastic POC in the team, no quota, no rubbish just great players on merit.
8 Nov 2012, 15:21 pm
@nama1-119:
Apparently there’s a Protea document that has been leaked to the Aussie team about certain players strengths and weaknesses.
Smith is prone to lbw’s and can’t play on the off side. Steyn is not effective against left handers and Vernon can only last for 2 spells.
They trying the mind game bullshit but don’t have the talent to back it up, like in the past.
8 Nov 2012, 15:24 pm
@nama1-121: Agree with you in that he is good behind the wicket…..makes very few mistakes technically. My concern is with his batting, he has not been in great form with the bat in longer forms of the game….temperament is an issue with him. Something he needs to work on. Age also an issue….he is 30 odd if not mistaken. Personally i would have blooded a youngster for the future.
8 Nov 2012, 15:27 pm
Thami won’t be keeper in any of the test. AB will be keeper which will allow Rudolph and Duminy to play.
8 Nov 2012, 15:28 pm
Seems to me the biggest screw up here came from SARU. Three tests and only one of them against a light team. It’s a post world cup year and SA lost more players than most. Playing against Italy too or Scotland twice would have been a good opportunity to give guys like Jantjies a low-pressure environment to learn. Starting Goosen against the ABs was unfair and maybe Meyer learnt from that and doesn’t want to repeat it with Jantjies vs Ireland or England. In all likelihood, Meyer will have him there vs Scotland and everyone can say I told you so.
Who knows, maybe he’ll shock us all and start a whole backline of, what do we call them now, previously disadvantaged rugby players?
8 Nov 2012, 15:30 pm
we still on this?
ok then, i must repeat that mantashe is a tunc who led the charge in te spear debacle, condones the interference in freedom of speech (the spear debacle), corruption (nkandla), attacks on the judiciary and rampant looting of the public purse and use of deployees to maintain control of the country.
he is a fatcunt and i hope he chokes in the trough with all the other pigs.
8 Nov 2012, 15:31 pm
@Jeraldjay-126: Ya i read that, but its an Aussie dossier by Arthur on how to combat the Proteas. Apparently arthur and whoever else compiled it believes the only way to break Amla down is through a psychological ware with sledging and verbal abuse to break his concentration. And Kallis will be peppered with short balls.
8 Nov 2012, 15:32 pm
in short, mantashes opinion is higher than HIV on my list of things i would hate to be subjected to.
8 Nov 2012, 15:32 pm
@Tacitus-82: Rested?
Against the best two teams in the world?
Don’t believe all the spin. Steyn was dropped, and had to be dropped.
8 Nov 2012, 15:32 pm
cant wait for the cricky!
8 Nov 2012, 15:35 pm
I am going to supports Ireland. HM must go. AC for the top job.
8 Nov 2012, 15:38 pm
@Skeppie-125:
Wow!!! I’m this bad racist now.
OK, for what it’s worth. I think Rudolph should be dropped and Thami should keep wicket.
Reasons: 1.Rudolph has not grabbed his opportunity since he was recalled. First he flopped as opener and he has not done too well in the middle order. JP’s performances in England means that he should retain his spot.
2. AB has not done much with the bat while keeping wicket. He should be released of that duty. We lose a lot more with AB not on form than we lose with Rudolph in the team and only scoring once in a while.
I hope that was not too racist.
@Jeraldjay-126:
I put it on the ANC thread. Interesting read.
@Mustard-127:
32 or something like that. It gives that youngster from WP a chance to gain more experience over the next two years before he takes over.
8 Nov 2012, 15:41 pm
i must say though that meyer is proving to be a bit dof imo.
what concerns me about his thinking is how he didnt have morne on the bench for goose vs the ab’s instead of connie?
surely the experience would have been more appropriate at that stage?
pat has loads of experience and plenty of caps so why not have connie as backup?
as for de jongh, i am unmoved by the wp supporters ashcloth approach.to his non inclusion.
taute is rightly hailed as a talent and is 21 so has plenty of time and juan provides cover for 12 and 13 from the bench.
its a little pathetic reading the whining reaching such hysterical proportions really.
8 Nov 2012, 15:44 pm
Hey Keo
Do you think Juan de Jongh played better than Paul Jordaan of the sharks this year? Not a chance. Elton Jantjies is seriously overrated.
This whole discussion is stupid because if the colored player left out was a bull then no one would have complained. I’m no fan of Zane but he has not let the team down, yet no one can get of his back.
My verdict is that there is more provincialism at play here than racism. The worst thing for rugby is the WP winning the Currie Cup. All scribes are almost WP and Keo you’re just trying to score points with this article to sound politically correct because you claim to be a Bull supporter. Which I still dont believe for a second.
8 Nov 2012, 15:45 pm
@vlam-138: You are 100% correct.
8 Nov 2012, 15:46 pm
I expect to see alot more of this type of journalism – judging by the increase in hits lately on the site.
Wish one could fast forward two years down the line – to see what has happened results wise, the team we have then and how it is looking for the future.
Because I don’t think I want to listen to constant biathcing and moaning that goes with every coach ever appointed.
Every time is the same. Coach is picked. Fans are happy the previous guy is GONE GONE GONE. (nevermind if he was succesful, on his way somewhere with the team, won a world cup or whatver – not even a year extension maybe) then and then…..
One or two games down the line … lock target…isolate the coach.. find anything and everything about the person to humiliate, insult, degrade, drum up conspiracy theories, find evidence of incompetence in everything he does, question the appointment in first place, attack character, integrity and credibility, push personal agendas, politicians jump in at opportune time and in short – build an ever higher pressure tensed up environment, that in the end is so counter productive to everything that is being tried to achieve.
8 Nov 2012, 15:47 pm
@willievz-133: Willie, I am your father.
8 Nov 2012, 15:47 pm
Agreed with KEO. Meyer will gain nothing out of having Morne on the bench. It is not likely that Morne will play better than Elton but this is yet another example of Meyer’s 3 primary phobias:
Inexperience, Size, Youth.
I expect that Meyer will start with Elton vs Scotland having Morne on the bench again and then vs England he will start with his favourite of the three and that will be the biggest insight we will get as to his No. 2 flyhalf for the next 3 years.
8 Nov 2012, 15:51 pm
Well Keo, dont you have Heyneke’s cellphone number? Cant you give him a call and suggest these excellent points to him?
He is NOT doing himself any favours
he is NOT doing Morne any
most importantly – he is NOT doing the Boks any.
8 Nov 2012, 15:51 pm
“The worst thing for rugby is the WP winning the Currie Cup”
I had to copy and paste that to convince myself what you actually posted.
WP is the oldest rugby union in SA with a rich history of honour and tradition and they deserve all the accolades.
8 Nov 2012, 15:52 pm
@shooter-141: You sound just like him
8 Nov 2012, 15:52 pm
@KeurboomPark-135: AC shoulda had it after Jake,before Divvy,but SARU makes no sense.Boks woulda been in far better shape and probably been world champs 3rd time,I have lost all faith in HM due to ****** selections.
8 Nov 2012, 15:53 pm
@shooter-140:
If this were a game show, you would have just won the million dollar grand prize with that comment.
Bravo.
8 Nov 2012, 15:54 pm
@suffer_guy-107: en 108: Daai 2 opmerkings laat n mens dink jys n po3phol.
Ondersteun jou nasionale spane
8 Nov 2012, 15:55 pm
@vlam-138: Your second paragraph is very, very true…
Farken SA “sports” journos… Them and SA “politico” journo’s should join the rest of the nimby’s near my imaginary trench and get farken mowed down for their “excellence” and definite agendas…
Farkemall…
But I do agree with Keo’s article here… Sorry to say.
8 Nov 2012, 15:55 pm
@shooter-141: haha. left the computer by the time you posted.
I agree on much of what you said in that one post. Point is… HM picked Taute.
In any other team in the world people would have tried to have decent rugby debate about the decision. kinda like what you argued there. But here we have to immediately revert to the utter rubbish that was flying around the site the past three days.
I take your point, and we’ll see where all this goes. In the end, the coaches are with the players 24/7. HM and co is working around the clock ongame plans and strategies and practices and all that – they and the players are the ones who actually have to come up with the showing on the weekend. What goes on there, I should think, is light years away from the thinking of the average person on this blog.
It may turn out to be an inspired decision. Or it may not. People go on about HM being one track minded and all that, I think he has shown alot of flexibility in selections. Steyn is a story all in its own right, but apart from that, he has dropped and chopped and changed as he saw fit. When he does, people immediately give themselves credit for the changes, somehow… This will be a process of evolution (sounds very slow, haha), as it was always intended.. but most don’t get it.
8 Nov 2012, 15:55 pm
@The Rangerman-137: Taute is a short term stop gap selection and he himself as well as Meyer sees his future at 15. So why pick a guy that has not played in the position much and has a future at FB at centre ahead of a Specialist centre? That’s what is confusing to me.
8 Nov 2012, 15:56 pm
Agree with Keo – Meyer ultimately wants Steyn back – he is “setting up” Lambie for failure like he did with Goosen. Why did’nt Lambie get a home game to ease him in ? Steyn lost 3 test matches & now teh pressure is on our younger talent. Also, Meyer will tell Lambie to play skop & chase – this man is a disgrace.
8 Nov 2012, 16:00 pm
@suffer_guy-108: Thanks Bud!
Makhaya Ntini was quoted in the Sunday Times as saying that if Thami Tokoloshe were white he’d be playing in the team.
Funny, methinks that if Makhaya Ntina has been white he would’ve gone to jail for rape.
8 Nov 2012, 16:00 pm
@Superbru-146: Jake supported AC….and now we know why.
8 Nov 2012, 16:00 pm
@mbthomson-152: Wow, you got it all worked out. Where do I subscribe?
8 Nov 2012, 16:03 pm
@vlam-138: @Heavens Game-149: yes, Keo the Bull, the all important alibi…. (the enemy from within.)
8 Nov 2012, 16:04 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-153:
You can bet your bollocks to a barndance that a white Thami Tsolekile would not have been anywhere close to Protea honours.
8 Nov 2012, 16:05 pm
Willie, 150 was meant for you there
8 Nov 2012, 16:08 pm
@wnbb-154: AC would of provided much needed continuity for world champion boks and he commanded respect from the boys,much lacking from Divvy’s coaching armoury.Biggest mistake in the history of SARU,not backing AC for the top job at the time.Now he’ll probably get the job by default if HM loses the next WC,or maybe even sooner if HM gets onto a losing streak with his daft selection policies.Once again a little too little too late imo.
8 Nov 2012, 16:09 pm
I would blood a guy like Quinton de Kock.
He is a brilliantly talented no 3 batsman and Keeps as well.
8 Nov 2012, 16:10 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-153: you are talking rubbish, makhaya was acquitted as he had done no wrong! yes he had s.ex with that woman but he did not rape her.
amazing what some will stoop to in ignorance!
8 Nov 2012, 16:16 pm
@Transformation-161: Yeah, acquited only after Ali Bacher had spent who-knows how much on the best advocates in the land fighting his case in the highest court in the land.
You know where I’m coming from, don’t pretend you don’t.
8 Nov 2012, 16:17 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-162: It follows that I mean acquited on appeal after originally being found guilty.
8 Nov 2012, 16:18 pm
@nama1-136: You’re not saying much much I agree with lately.
But i agree with… don’t play AB at keeper. his batting is becoming like Mark Boucher – sideways, instead of front-on. He should concentrate on being the best batsmen in the world.
Dont even pick him there for ODI’s or T20′s.
If Tsolekiles the answer, I won’t ansswer that, because just now….
8 Nov 2012, 16:18 pm
@Transformation-161: ” makhaya was acquitted”… after a good few favours called and strings pulled by Uncle Ali. Simple…
Your revisionism is laughable
8 Nov 2012, 16:21 pm
@Mustard-160:
That’s the problem we have in SA. Very good batsman who can keep as well.
We need a keeper who can bat as well…preferably at 7.
@Transformation-161:
Some people are automatically guilty of anything that they are accused off.
8 Nov 2012, 16:22 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-162: Thank God for Ali,otherwise it would have been a travesty of justice.No matter how much his legal representation charged,the fact of the matter is that justice was served at the end of the day.
8 Nov 2012, 16:25 pm
I agree with Tacitus, HM does rate JdJ or Jantjies. If he did he woud’ve played them a long time ago. He has shown that he’s not afraid to play those he believes in, regardless of age or fitness.
I’ve said it before, the only reason they’re are there is to inflate the black numbers. In fact if they were white, they wouldn’t even be in the squad, ala Keegan Daniel.
Does not mean I agree with it, that’s just how it is….
8 Nov 2012, 16:26 pm
@shooter-164:
So what don’t you agree with?
That JdJ should be there ahead of Taute?
That Jantjies should be on the bench ahead of Morne?
That HM has a MAXIMUM quota of three POC?
I don’t know that Thami is the answer. What I do know is that he is regarded the best glove man in the country and that his batting improved tremendously over the last few seasons.
8 Nov 2012, 16:27 pm
@nama1-166:
like bees roux?
8 Nov 2012, 16:27 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-162: i know the advocate that handled his case, it was a no-brainer for him…he didn’t understand what the other incompetent that represented makhaya earlier was doing as it was easy-peasy!
if makhaya had received proper representation from the get-go there wouldn’t have been a need for ali bacher to step in….
“Funny, methinks that if Makhaya Ntina has been white he would’ve gone to jail for rape.”
clearly you would’ve been far much happier for an innocent man to have gone to jail!
8 Nov 2012, 16:28 pm
HM does rate JdJ or Jantjies. If he did he woud’ve played them a long time ago. He has shown that he’s not afraid to play those he believes in, regardless of age or fitness.
I’ve said it before, the only reason they’re are there is to inflate the black numbers. In fact if they were white, they wouldn’t even be in the squad, ala Keegan Daniel.
Does not mean I agree with it, that’s just how it is….
8 Nov 2012, 16:29 pm
@Heavens Game-165:
remember, he was in fact found guilty of rape and sentenced to six years in prison and only was acquitted during an apeal process.
8 Nov 2012, 16:30 pm
@nama1-166:
C’mon Nama. Up your game.
Why the fark does a keeper have to bat at 7.
The game has changed and anybody can bad anywhere.
8 Nov 2012, 16:30 pm
@Heavens Game-165: no strings, that’s why there’s an appeal process msunuwakho
are you suggesting ali bacher influenced the judiciary?
no wonder CSA gave him an unauthorised R5 million more on his pension when he left he was a miracle maker
8 Nov 2012, 16:31 pm
In other news.Seems like the Lions have their coach back ! Cape Town – John Mitchell has been found not guilty of all complaints of misconduct levelled against him by the Golden Lions Rugby Union.
With his suspension formally lifted, Mitchell has been requested to return to work as Golden Lions head coach on Friday, according to his lawyer Brian Patterson, of Edwards Nathan Sonnenbergs.
Patterson confirmed that the GLRU had finally released its full findings and recommendations of the disciplinary chairperson, Peter Bam.
Patterson stressed that no further comment could be made on the subject at this stage because of legal reasons.
“John is elated with the outcome and feels that his position and reputation as an international coach has been fully vindicated,” said his management agency, The Fordham Company. “He is looking forward to returning to Coca-Cola Park as head coach to assist the Lions to achieve their full potential”.
The agency’s chief executive, John Fordham, said Bam had made a number of recommendations relating to the restoring of the working relationships between Mitchell and the GLRU.
“John is committed to working hard together with the GLRU to address these issues going forward,” he said.
Fordham added that Mitchell’s legal representatives and the GLRU’s lawyers Erasmus Inc were engaged in discussions to address the resolution of certain underlying issues that gave rise to the complaints and to discuss Mitchell’s future with the club.
“John is committed to remaining in South Africa and in continuing in his position as head coach of the GLRU. He’s looking forward to his return to the club tomorrow,” he said.
Sport24
Read more on: lions | john mitchell | johannesburg | rugby
8 Nov 2012, 16:31 pm
@mxhosa-168:
“I agree with Tacitus, HM does rate JdJ or Jantjies.
…the only reason they’re are there is to inflate the black numbers.”
Now, if that is the case, it is racist.
8 Nov 2012, 16:34 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-173: Correct.getting off on appeal certainly beats paying a murder victim’s family R800-000 to stay out of jail.
8 Nov 2012, 16:34 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-173: what does it mean to be acquitted after appealing?
does it mean one is guilty and thus in no position to offer their opinion on any subject regarding cricket?
8 Nov 2012, 16:35 pm
@nama1-176:
What is?
8 Nov 2012, 16:37 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-162: Hahahahaha, An Aussie (or wannabe) talking about sportsmen that shouldve gone to jail????
Dont make me laugh. Check your own country and their sportsmen. Diabolical reputation and some blatant cover ups.
If Lance Armstrong was Aussie he would never have been investigated.
Po3phol
8 Nov 2012, 16:39 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-170:
No, he was not guilty until he pleaded guilty and paid off the family.
@Jeraldjay-174:
Because after keeping wicket for 5/12 hours on the 1st day, it will be much more difficult to come in and bat at three if one of the openers lose his wicket early. Batting at 7 gives the wk time to recuperate before he comes in to bat.
Only Sangakara could successfully combine keeping wicket and bat high up in the order.
8 Nov 2012, 16:39 pm
@bokfan1-181: BrumbiesBoy lives in SA, what are you talking about!
8 Nov 2012, 16:40 pm
This Ntini argument is rather silly.Judges decided that the decision needed to b overturned.End of story.In light of the Bees controversy,do we now say that Bakkies people influenced the decision to rather pay off the murdered victim’s family rather than to go on trial for murder?Crazy man,just crazy.
8 Nov 2012, 16:41 pm
@Transformation-179:
it cuts both ways doesn’t it though, transie.
to play the race card without a care in the world.
brumbie played one back, and you have to admit he has a point.
consider the alleged rape victim in all of this, please.
that he was acquitted due to supposed ‘technical’ shortcomings of the prosecutions case does not mean he did not do something to that girl.
something she did not want done to her.
8 Nov 2012, 16:42 pm
@nama1-182:
like makhay was, until he used his extensive influence and support to appeal the conviction and get off free.
8 Nov 2012, 16:42 pm
@bokfan1-181: wannabe.a white oke,I think,shouting for the Brumbies.I don’t think he has ever crossed the Gauteng border.
8 Nov 2012, 16:43 pm
Nama
That JdJ should be there ahead of Taute?
A: That JDJ should automatically be no 1 in position there. If HM decided to play 10 Morne, 12 Lambie, 13 JDV…. then thats his choice.
That Jantjies should be on the bench ahead of Morne?
A: That EJ should be no 1 in position there. I am a very big EJ fan, but Morne fan too. HM more so. he said, in this instance, there’s no pecking order. EJ = PL = MS. Depends on the game on the day.
I gaurantee you, if EJ was starting, MS would’ve benched too, with Lamnbie maybe bencing for 15 or out alltogether.
That HM has a MAXIMUM quota of three POC?
A: Don’t agree with you at all.
In general, your absolute conviction that something else besides rugby going on here, is just short of actually saying what so many other hhere is saying. Which I have gone on at length about too.
FFS man. You think the guy in the most public of eye, in 2012, is so stupid to have a secret MAXIMUM 3 POC policy. wake up.
8 Nov 2012, 16:43 pm
@mxhosa-180:
Taking players on a tour, knowing full well that you don’t rate them and that you are only stringing them along to “inflate the black numbers.”
8 Nov 2012, 16:43 pm
@Mustard-151: Agree! I vaguely remember a comment attributed to Meyer in the beginning that players would not be played out of position? (Or am I wrong?)
Why have a struggling player at 15, when you have a great new Fullback talent?
Why play that great talent at 13 when you have a brilliant 13 on the bench?
Why put a struggling 10 on the bench? To “save the game”? If anything Morne LOST a few games for the Boks this year!
Let Ruan kick for poles if thats your concern HM. Let Lambie run that ball all day and kick for corners.
Will De Jongh miss any tackles? No. Will Taute? Its more likely as he is less-experienced and out of position.
Will Kirchner kick everything back that he gets? Probably.
Will he kick it aimlessly and too deep? Most likely.
If he runs it, will it be in one direction, slap bang into a tackler? probably.
8 Nov 2012, 16:44 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-173: @i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-185: Beyootiful
Transie running away fast now… Balekha umfana… Sukha!
8 Nov 2012, 16:44 pm
@Transformation-183: I thought he might be a Wannabe Transie
but in that case he probably supports Aussie teams?
8 Nov 2012, 16:45 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-185: She cried wolf after Ntini told her the sweet honey is not going to lead to anything substantial.Ok.Get over it and move on.
8 Nov 2012, 16:47 pm
@wnbb-193: Much like your Mum with me, yeah…?
8 Nov 2012, 16:48 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-185: so you agree that makhaya cannot ever comment on cricket issues because he was acquitted on appeal? hehehe
8 Nov 2012, 16:48 pm
@nama1-189: and thats the whole point. soon the the way these sort of stereotype building of a persona grows, the uninformed vocal miniority grows to believe that a post you read somewhere, is now HM, it becomes part of what is asscociated with him.
it’s your responsibility as semi intelligent blogger, to digress from perpetuating the **** you do.
8 Nov 2012, 16:49 pm
@Heavens Game-194:
. Malkoppie
8 Nov 2012, 16:49 pm
@nama1-182:
The professional era requires players to be super fit.
I’m sure if Boucher or Gilchrist was asked to bat at 3 they would jump at the opportunity. How many times did Gilchrist run out of partners at the end of an innings.
But all I’m really saying is the game has changed and an allrounder doesn’t have to bat at 5/6 and a keeper/batsmen who essentially is an alrounder doesn’t have to bat at 7/8.
8 Nov 2012, 16:49 pm
@bokfan1-192: yes, he supported the Boks throughout apartheid but stopped when the QUOTA system was adopted in the currie cup and randomly selected the brumbies as his team of choice, you know because Australia has no race issues
8 Nov 2012, 16:50 pm
@Transformation-195: So a woman truly has no recourse in a patriarchal society…
As long as you shower afterwards of course, ne?
Mzansi… a nation of showerheads….
8 Nov 2012, 16:52 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-185: “does not mean he did not do something to that girl.
something she did not want done to her.”
do you know the details of the case or you are speculating?
think carefully if you should respond to this one
8 Nov 2012, 16:53 pm
@Heavens Game-191:
hehehe
he’a sticky wicket, old transie.
@wnbb-193:
wow! i hope you will go away from this reflecting deeply on what you have said there. you need to look deep inside yourself, my man.
was she as silly to wear a kanga and ‘invite’ intercourse, forced or otherwise, as zuma’s ‘alleged’ rape victim was..?..
8 Nov 2012, 16:54 pm
@Transformation-199: Wow, you mean there are people who choose teams like that?
@wnbb-187: hahahaha, so sad
8 Nov 2012, 16:54 pm
@Heavens Game-200: oh fokkof, should you be jailed because you break all the promises you made while on the poon of the tannies you are sha.gging in Pretoria?
fokkof
8 Nov 2012, 16:55 pm
@Transformation-201: Fact is, Megatron, Ntini was convicted for rape…
Yes, there was a successful appeal…
But was there ever a verdict of “not guilty”?
Farken showerhead…
8 Nov 2012, 16:55 pm
Bakkies is a real joker on this forum.He even tried to second-guess the details contained in the Bees Roux plea-bargaining agreement,an agreement that was never made public.
8 Nov 2012, 16:56 pm
I seem to remember that when the squad was announced there were 3 nominated centres, JdV, JdJ and Mapoe, with JPP bracketed as wing/centre. Other than JdV we have nobody who could cover 12 except JdJ, so perhaps he was only selected as a 12.
8 Nov 2012, 16:56 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-185: “you have to admit he has a point.”
what point is that?
8 Nov 2012, 16:56 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-186:
You mean, he was acquitted. In other words: not guilty of the crime.
Bees on the other hand: guilty of the crime. Bees could’ve gone to court and fight if he wanted to. He chose not to.
@shooter-188:
Remember when HM began his reign? I think it was after the 2nd test against Arg that Tacitus asked the question: “Is the magic number 4?”
How is that different from what I’m saying when I say that the magic number is a MAXIMUM of three.
You guys can try and pretend all you want. I won’t.
8 Nov 2012, 16:56 pm
@Transformation-195:
no, of course not.
but i do feel there’s some validity to brumbie’s criticism that he very likely got off because he was black.
8 Nov 2012, 16:58 pm
I met Makhaya few few times and I honestly don’t think he raped that girl.
8 Nov 2012, 16:59 pm
@Heavens Game-205: how is ntini out if he was guilty?
farken rhodesian t.wat seeing things
8 Nov 2012, 17:00 pm
@Jeraldjay-211: he boned her, took her to spar to buy the bread she was sent to purchase and took her home.
8 Nov 2012, 17:00 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-210: Bees got off because he was white and could pay-off the victim’s family.Why pay if he believed that he was innocent?Answer that old china.
8 Nov 2012, 17:01 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-210: you are talking s.hit!
8 Nov 2012, 17:01 pm
@wnbb-206: You’re the joke on this forum. Bakkies at least comments on rugby related issues and not only politics and race.
What do you call a person who is capable of spending hours and hours, day after day, talking about race and racism?
A racist.
8 Nov 2012, 17:01 pm
@Transformation-208:
as stated in post #210 of course i believe he does have the right to voice opinions on cricket, irrespective of being acquitted of rape, on appeal.
his was makhaya got off because he was black and that possibly a white guy would have found it much harder to navigate… which goes back to the easy use of the race card in our society.
8 Nov 2012, 17:02 pm
@Transformation-204: Tannies? You mean Mummies, surely…
They laaik it when you speak foreign with them… English spoken with “th” not sounding like “f” as in “wif” or “e” not sounding like “uh” works a charm… Strues.
Also, some pretty arbitrary manners – like opening doors or pulling out chairs farken causes nymphomanic effects…
But its of their own free will… No showerheads in sight
8 Nov 2012, 17:04 pm
@Transformation-212: He was sentenced… That indicates a fair amount of guilt… ?
Was he fully exonerated?
(Balekha msunu balekha…
)
8 Nov 2012, 17:04 pm
@Finfan-216: Don’t be so hard on yourself finman.
8 Nov 2012, 17:05 pm
@Finfan-216: No… a poodlemolester…
8 Nov 2012, 17:05 pm
@nama1-209:
@wnbb-214:
we all the answer to why bees roux had to plead guilty to murdering a corrupt police officer who was in the act of highjacking him with intent to rob him of money, possibly his car, and quite possibly kill him too.
why ask/pose rhetorical statements/points.
8 Nov 2012, 17:05 pm
@Heavens Game-218: yeah “freewill” that’s what deon helberg thought!
you’ll get a mal one and it will be tickets for you!
8 Nov 2012, 17:06 pm
@Heavens Game-219: why is he out of jail?
buya msunu buya!
8 Nov 2012, 17:08 pm
@nama1-189:
Not really racist Nama, just a case of pleasing the masses and thus hanging on to his job. Do you think he would’ve left KD behind if he was black?
What concerns me though is his contradictory statements he makes, re: player selection, that open themselves to all sorts of intepretation…
8 Nov 2012, 17:08 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-222: your answer is not very well constructed.please try again.
8 Nov 2012, 17:08 pm
@Transformation-215:
oh transie, lets at least be civil in our discourse of disagreement
8 Nov 2012, 17:08 pm
@nama1-209: whatever Nama. continue your obsession.
I answered you questions, straight forward. there is no entitlement. well, there should be none.
What of the other 22 spots up for grabs.
and what Tacitus said, or what that guy said, what anybody said… i responded to you here: @shooter-196:
and right on cue….. at 209 you prove me right.
8 Nov 2012, 17:09 pm
Reas posts above, so happy, you’ve obviously all realised you are not qualified to comment on rugby
8 Nov 2012, 17:09 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-217: it goes back to nothing, BrumbiesBoy is as pathetic as anyone who uses race to defend their incompetence, he is no different from Mac Maharaj
8 Nov 2012, 17:10 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-227: just being forthright…deal with it.
8 Nov 2012, 17:10 pm
@shooter-196:
Don’t worry. I know that that is just the view of mxhosa and Tac.
No need to get in unnecessary jibes just because you are fully intelligent, or are you?
@Jeraldjay-198:
Not really.
Gilly helped out at 6 for a while but was mighty relieved when he went back to his normal position of 7.
8 Nov 2012, 17:10 pm
@Transformation-223: Naah… Helberg is a laaitie in over his head…
However HG is a well versed navigator…
Dodge Welsh women… and Pretoria women are tame by comparison…
8 Nov 2012, 17:11 pm
@Heavens Game-221: White or black poodles??
8 Nov 2012, 17:12 pm
@mxhosa-225: You have been very sane and sensible (i think lately
). All for questioning, but open minded.
8 Nov 2012, 17:13 pm
@wnbb-226:
we all the answer (should read) = we all know the answer as to why bees roux pleaded guilty to murdering a corrupt police officer who was in the act of highjacking him with intent to rob him of money, his car and quite possibly kill him too.
8 Nov 2012, 17:14 pm
@Finfan-234: Capo is a full spectrum rainbow nation poodle n.aaier…
8 Nov 2012, 17:15 pm
@Transformation-223:
8 Nov 2012, 17:15 pm
@nama1-232: isn’t it amazing that some here started criticising meyer’s convoluted selections before it was about race? back then it was the stormers fans’ fault
to think some of those who defended him are now latter-day critics.
402.ufo:
4 Jun 2012, 11:14 am
I don’t think this criticism of Heyneke is unfair…
many bloggers here from all provinces question some of his selections… and many question the same selections/omissions… so this is hardly an exclusively stormers fan thing…those suggesting it is are diverting attention away from themselves for being so loud mouthed last week…and since when is it a crime to question the bok coach… those complaining about us questioning heyneke had no such reservations about criticizing Divvy…and of course we’ll support the boks… that goes without saying… get a grip of yourselves…
8 Nov 2012, 17:17 pm
@nama1-232: ja well. i was actually trying to distinguish between the totally mo-ron bloggers and the others. ’twas sort of a compliment… smiley.
8 Nov 2012, 17:18 pm
@David-207: Another thing we should be mindful of is the following:
Midfielders in the HM gameplan are there to chase and contest the aerial boms.
If a midfielder has played on the wing or fullback, and has a height advantage, it will complement the game plan.
Hence the selection of the likes of JJ and Taute in the midfield.
And, as you pointed out, Meyer picks more wingers in his overall squad than other coaches do.
8 Nov 2012, 17:18 pm
@Transformation-230:
Mac has a way with words indeed. some of gareth cliff’s jokes about the two them (mac and zuma) are a larf.
8 Nov 2012, 17:20 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-236:
That was just Bees’ word. The other party is dead, remember?
The two of them were alone in the car. Maybe the cop did intend taking Bees home. Maybe Bees dosed off for just a little while, woke up, saw this black guy driving his car and sommer started to moer him in the drunken stage that he was in.
How do we know that is not what really happened?
8 Nov 2012, 17:20 pm
@nama1-232: How’s that plank in your eye, umfanawami?
You gonna take it out before picking up splinters from others who don’t quite have the same woe is me black is right lens that you have…?
8 Nov 2012, 17:21 pm
The ones who call racism all the time are in fact racist themselves.
Are you telling me, if a player is good enough in a coaches mind, he will not select him on the basis of colour? Please, that’s such an ignorant view.
A coach wants to win.
We may not all agree on HM’s selections, but saying they are racially influenced is just pathetic, ignorant and racist in itself. Shame on you.
8 Nov 2012, 17:21 pm
@Transformation-223:
@Heavens Game-233:
helberg found out the hard way what happens when you loading with live ammo. daai fokkenn tannie se moer was behoorlik gestrip
8 Nov 2012, 17:22 pm
@Mustard-160: Damn right sir.Does
his main job W/K brilliantly Very good batsman
8 Nov 2012, 17:24 pm
@nama1-243:
because he gave his testimony, remember.
also, evidence suggesting this as quite possible emerged when the the other cops who were with him were interrogated. remember, they were in fact going in a direction which was not near to any known cop stations. there was more.
8 Nov 2012, 17:24 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-246: LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!
8 Nov 2012, 17:24 pm
@nama1-243:
because he gave his testimony, remember.
also, evidence suggesting this as quite possible emerged when the the other cops who were with him were interrogated. remember, they were in fact going in a direction which was not near to any known cop stations.
there was more.
i have to go,
will check back later
cheers
8 Nov 2012, 17:28 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-250: there was no trial.I really don’t want to embarrass you like this,but you need to get your facts straight,bud.I thought that we dealt with this issue last time?
8 Nov 2012, 17:29 pm
@shooter-235:
Lately? I take you’ve tracking my comments? When have I not been open minded?
8 Nov 2012, 17:30 pm
@Heavens Game-237: still hurting that I schooled you on the other thread?Shame.
8 Nov 2012, 17:31 pm
@Transformation-239:
One can only shake your head.
One thing became clear to me this last two days: Certain people are not “suppose” to criticize the coach.
Just compare the reaction that we’ve seen to that when HG had his “anti-Soutie” conspiracy theory a few weeks ago.
Crazy man, crazy.
@shooter-240:
No probs, Shooter.
It’s up to HM now to make things right. He must do all he can to keep the politicians out of the game. I’m not asking him to weaken the team, just that he must do the right thing.
8 Nov 2012, 17:31 pm
@willievz-241: a different angle. possibly a very valid point.
8 Nov 2012, 17:33 pm
@wnbb-253: Listen here, you little undereducated punk, you school me in your Mummy’s dreams… Now beat it… Before I beat her for inflicting you on this world
8 Nov 2012, 17:33 pm
@Finfan-216: good post
8 Nov 2012, 17:35 pm
@nama1-254: i still wanted to get to that. HG and Skop with their anti-Afrikaner bulldung. Some very nasty things was and is said about the afrikaans people.
en is JDJ nie ook afrikaans nie?
8 Nov 2012, 17:35 pm
This week,Heyneke has invited the politicians into the rugby family.It could have been different for him if he just followed common sense.He played his cards and left himself open to accusations.
8 Nov 2012, 17:35 pm
@shooter-255:
Well, look at his midfielders.
F.Steyn, JDV, Taute, Kirchner (who has ran practice sessions there), JJ and JPP have all played on the wing or fullback (or both) before.
I am convinced this is part of the puzzle.
The midfielders are not centres, they are chasers.
8 Nov 2012, 17:38 pm
@willievz-260: I afree, think you are onto something.
HM international man of mystery.
8 Nov 2012, 17:40 pm
Off course,, i mean agree./
8 Nov 2012, 17:41 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-248:
What testimony? There was never evidence led or any cross examination. There was just a statement which was obviously drawn up by his lawyers.
“According to state witnesses, I proceeded to assault the deceased where he was prone on the ground by hitting him with clenched fists … I was screaming and yelling at bystanders to call the police and … at a stage when the deceased had evidently lost consciousness, I proceeded to plead with him to wake up so that he would ‘pull through’.
This part of his statement, I find very interesting.
8 Nov 2012, 17:42 pm
@wnbb-259: and you are very happy?
8 Nov 2012, 17:45 pm
No Currie Cup, S15 or Vodacom Cup means we now resort to politicians commenting on Rugby
8 Nov 2012, 17:45 pm
Jantjies should play for Kaizer Chiefs in the 7′s
8 Nov 2012, 17:47 pm
SAPS lost 1,335 firearms in 2010/2011 – Nathi Mthethwa
very absent minded these guys.
But anyway. thats all folks. later >
8 Nov 2012, 17:47 pm
@shooter-258:
JdJ is so Afrikaans soos kan kom. Het nog elke keer Afrikaans gepraat as daar ‘n onderhoud met hom gevoer word na ‘n wedstryd.
Aplon is ook Afrikaans, maar hy kan darem ‘n bietjie Engels praat.
@wnbb-259:
True.
It could’ve so easily been avoided.
8 Nov 2012, 17:49 pm
Lambie will fail at 10 because Kircher is at 15 !!
8 Nov 2012, 17:53 pm
@willievz-241:
Interestingly Taute was listed as a utility back, which generally implies he’s just a backup for a number of backline positions, not anything specific. Even Lambie was a 10/15. I wonder whether there was some disagreement with the other selectors that HM wished to avoid, as he’s shown that Taute is currently his first choice 13.
8 Nov 2012, 17:58 pm
@David-270:
I think Taute is currently HM’s first choice 13 and 15, hence the label of “utility”.
8 Nov 2012, 17:59 pm
@Heavens Game-256: You are just like Heyneke,Hg.You have brought this situation all on yourself.In trying to be clever on Romney’s auto bailout debacle you also left yourself open to ridicule.You basically exposed yourself as nothing but a twat on this forum.You have done that all by yourself,mate,without help from anybody on here.
8 Nov 2012, 18:01 pm
@skopdiekan-9:
Regardless of the actual content of your post, you have some nerve calling anyone a coward, since you are constantly abusing people behind the safety of your keyboard.
8 Nov 2012, 18:03 pm
@Heavens Game-244:
Lambie is currently the only English speaking Sharkie in the team, no?
Can’t wait for your break down when he gets dropped and replaced by Morne for the test against Scotland.
Tik…tok…tik…tok…
8 Nov 2012, 18:05 pm
@willievz-271:
If that is true, I would like to know on what grounds?
He is not 1st choice 13 or 15 for his franchise.
8 Nov 2012, 18:06 pm
@Stawm-273: Lots of people are doing that on here,mate.What about Gunther,Katman,Hg etc etc who turn nasty when things don’t go their way .Katman calling people browncocks didn’t solicit any response from you if memory serves me right.Hypocrites are frowned upon here on keo,bud.
8 Nov 2012, 18:13 pm
@nama1-275: Certainly.
I personally don’t think Taute is of international standard just yet.
8 Nov 2012, 18:23 pm
@willievz-277: I question his super rugby quality also,which still upsets me that the Stormers signed him for a year.
8 Nov 2012, 18:25 pm
He is not better than Joe P. and certainly not better than JdJ at 13.If he expects to walk into the Stormers team he can just pack his bags now and fck back to Gauteng.
8 Nov 2012, 18:34 pm
@willievz-277:
My personal belief is that HM is trying to bring in too many youngsters too quickly. I realise that injuries are a problem, but it also leads to the discarding of players too early if his intention is to build a core for the future.
Instead of nominating our u/20 side as our 2nd side to avoid player poaching for foreign countries, SARU should have nominated an Emerging Springbok/u23 team. This would allow us to develop players at an international level to feed the Boks. Let’s face it, our losses to other nations has been relatively low and not that significant anyway.
8 Nov 2012, 18:35 pm
**** I can only laugh!
When you go back fans of Jake White, Peter de Villiers and Heyneke Meyer had to ‘defend’ their favourite coach against bias, racism and/or stupidity!
Funny thing is, all those coaches had to fight the same battles, and those for or against them at any stage has repeated the same **** over and over again.
I have actually come to the conclusion that some dark forces in the media has ensured SARU continues to stay a ****-up so they can continue to sell papers!
8 Nov 2012, 18:50 pm
@PissAnt-281:
C’mon PA, SARU doesn’t need any help from the media!
8 Nov 2012, 18:55 pm
@David-282:
As true as that is, I am forced to look towards conspiracy theories because no organisation can be that retarded for that long!
8 Nov 2012, 18:56 pm
@David-282:
I am actually thinking of applying for a job at Keo to disprove this!
At least I will be the only writer not mentored by the dwarf!
8 Nov 2012, 19:18 pm
@PissAnt-284: You’d be the only writer with decorum, a sense of argument and a grasp of grammar.
8 Nov 2012, 19:18 pm
Is Keo hiring
8 Nov 2012, 19:22 pm
@willievz-260: If that is the case then he might as well pick big tall fast loose forwards in the centres if his not looking for any creativity.
I’m not a huge fan of the up and under. Basically its a 50/50 chance of you getting the ball back (if the chase is good) and if there is no chase…well you basically giving possession away. You hardly see the AB using the up and unders for that exact reason……why give possession away when you can that 20m (sometimes less) with a minor break or an offload in the tackle and gained momentum with support play. And then the possession is still yours….not 50/50 as with the case of an up and under.
8 Nov 2012, 19:22 pm
@nama1-136:
Agreed.
The deterioration in AB’s batting is obvious.
Besides Thami is a hand batsman.
He’d probably average what Rudolph does.
8 Nov 2012, 19:24 pm
@Dawn-286:
Probably, but you might find the “position” a bit uncomfortable.
8 Nov 2012, 19:26 pm
Oh my!With Pietman back things going to get real interesting on here.
8 Nov 2012, 19:26 pm
@mikeybrass-285:
Haha, thank you Mike.
8 Nov 2012, 19:30 pm
This site is just mislik
8 Nov 2012, 19:31 pm
Where’s pietman
Jigga?
8 Nov 2012, 19:31 pm
I agree that it makes no sense to have Morne in the match 22. much less in the touring squad at all.
He needed a break.
Elton deserves to be there.
8 Nov 2012, 19:32 pm
Even after all their injuries (which are very crucial), Ireland still have a better backline than us.
Both their half backs are better than ours.
Centers – on par. We’re bigger but theyre faster.
Wings – they edge it with Bowe on par with Pieterson and Trimble better than Hougaard.
Fullback – Zebo better than Kirchner.
8 Nov 2012, 19:32 pm
@Mustard-287:
They aren’t really just up and unders. It’s a way of countering the kicking directly into touch law as the kick is generally directed towards the touchline in the hope that the receiver will either be caught or hurried into a difficult clearance by the chasers..
8 Nov 2012, 19:35 pm
@Dawn-293: Horings
8 Nov 2012, 19:37 pm
Let the games begin !!
Australia’s captain Michael Clarke today denied that he had deliberately leaked a secret dossier itemising the strengths and weaknesses of the Proteas’ team.
The dossier was published in the local newspaper, The Courier Mail, this morning, 24 hours before the key first Test begins at the Gabba.
Among other things, the dossier details plans to engage Hashim Amla in a sledging war and submit him, Jacques Kallis and JP Duminy to a bouncer barrage.
Clarke, who seemed amused rather than concerned about the leaking of the dossier, said most of the information was “common knowledge” while the rest made for “interesting reading”.
“We always have information about any opposition we play against and it’s no different against South Africa,” the Australian captain said after his team had completed their final net session at the Gabba yesterday.
Asked whether he had been involved in leaking the information as part of an Australian psychological assault on the Proteas, Clarke replied: “No. Not from my point of view. I didn’t know anything was coming out.”
The dossier revealed the entire Australian game plan for each South African player, detailing their strengths and possible vulnerabilities. South Africa captain Graeme Smith seemed equally amused and philosophical about the leak.
“It was nothing we didn’t expect. I haven’t read much of it, just the odd line here and there. Look, we’ve played enough times against Australia to know what it takes to be victorious.
“I’ve said before that our focus has been solely on our preparation and I think we’ve completed that really well. “It’s been good, clinical and intelligent, and now we can’t wait to get going.”
The Proteas skipper said his experienced, settled team were used to the “cut and thrust” of series against Australia, on and off the field.
The dossier as well as statements made by former Proteas coach Mickey Arthur (claiming that Dale Steyn didn’t bowl well against left-handers), would simply be used to increase the motivation of his players.
“The series will be all about the pressure moments, and our Test side has shown in recent years that it can respond well to those.
“It will be all about small margins and if we can be clinical and not too emotional around them over the next five days then I’ll be happy.”
In relation to Amla, the dossier said: “We should look to get into his head and play a bit of a psychological war. We should also look to attack him with short-pitched bowling, let’s really go after him with some short-pitched stuff.”
Another player in the dossier limelight was AB de Villiers, who was described in glowing terms in the dossier. His Achilles heel, according to the dossier, was the fact that his keeping wicket was causing his batting to “deteriorate”.
Another major focus fell on leg-spinner Imran Tahir, who is described as an “attacking spinner” who has taken many wickets but also conceded a lot of runs.
“We should really ramp up the pressure on him,” the dossier concluded. “Unlike Paul Harris, Tahir cannot hold up a game. He can be very impatient with his bowling and it leads to him being expensive.”
Clarke said the real issue relating to the information was that it wasn’t ultimately a case of what was said, but about the Australians executing their game plans.
“The most important thing for me is not about what you say, it’s about what you do. Enough’s been said already, there’s been plenty of talk in the media, the series has been built up beautifully; now it’s about what we do.”
The Gabba pitch was looking greener today, and Clarke said this had caused him and coach Mickey Arthur to delay naming their final XI until the morning of the match.
“It’s about whether we go in with three fast bowlers and a spinner (Nathan Lyon), or whether we go for the four quicks,” the Aussie captain said.
Smith said his management would decide on their final XI tonight, but he hinted strongly that South Africa would go in with a spinner (Tahir), three specialist pace bowlers (Steyn, Morné Morkel and Vernon Philander) and back-up paceman Kallis.
The Gabba Test will feature a battle between the two top pace attacks in world cricket.
Steyn and Philander are ranked one and two in the world, while Morkel is in the top 10. Their success in recent years is a mark not only of their pace, but the variety of complementary skills they bring to the party.
Steyn is fast and skiddy with late outswing, Philander nags away at the batsmen, moving the ball each way off the seam, while Morkel is fast and his back-of-a-length bowling forces the batsmen to fend off sharply rising deliveries.
The Australian pace foursome represents a mixture of youth and experience, with the hard-working and aggressive Peter Siddle and swing bowler Ben Hilfenhaus the hardened performers.
8 Nov 2012, 19:38 pm
We needs a coach who will help us unite the country – not divide it. merit, yes, for sure. But don’t insult us with k@k selections. it hurts.
8 Nov 2012, 19:43 pm
Got to admit that I felt Elton was a shoe-in at 10. And not even make it into 23. He was the incumbent FH after the Soccer City test and deserved another chance. I find this seriously baffling with HM suddenly deciding that Lambie is now a flyhalf and not a fullback after all.
And when Taute says that his favoured position is fullback, Heyneke continues to pick him at 13. After a lacklustre 2 tests there.
What more does JDJ have to do?
These thoughts have already been posted here,I know. It is just my two cents worth.
Heyneke Meyer is now under serious pressure to win 3 out of 3 on this tour.
The ratings agencies would by now be placing Heymeke Meyer under ‘negative watch.’
8 Nov 2012, 19:54 pm
Meyer will be lucky if he wins three on this tour.He might beat a depleted Irish team and a historically poor Scots team. The English test will be his toughest.Losing against the Irish or Scots should be considerd as an absolute tour failure.
8 Nov 2012, 19:55 pm
@I am a stormer-300: More like “junk”
8 Nov 2012, 20:01 pm
The question no one wants to ask is simply this:
Why did Ali Bacher, in fact, feel the need to use his enormous financial and sports-politics clout to fight for the eventual acquittal on appeal of the guilty Ntini?
If he had not, the man would have been a convict just as Majola deserves to, and should,be.
The answer too is pretty simple, though ugly. The guilty Ntini was for the rest of his cricketing life to be the ‘knight in not-so-shining black armour that was to earn so many brownie points for a neo-racist sports organisation in the world of even more demanding not-so-white but very rich black cricket world.
Ali’s star shone brighter, CSA’s star shone brighter(’til Majola) and the New Bri.-P.E.-E.Cape-ANC cabal got quieter (again ’til Majola).
That is the politics of sports or the sports of politics.
8 Nov 2012, 20:02 pm
@gunther-288:
Yes, keeping has affected AB’s batting especially in England but if Thami plays JP gets the chop.
I say its a sacrifice that has to be made.
8 Nov 2012, 20:07 pm
@David-289:
So correct, for Keo has already said she is so often “on her knees”.
Now how would he know her “postion”al preferences?
8 Nov 2012, 20:10 pm
if meyer and his followers are not racist then he/they must be extremely dof or retarded.Frankly if it was me id choose the former
8 Nov 2012, 20:12 pm
@ET.-303: Flogging a dead horse ….ET style!
. A bit late ,but go ahead and knock yourself out.
8 Nov 2012, 20:12 pm
This article is also a load of rubbish .i think we should ditch the Springbok emblem call them Proteas.Let all the good players go play their rugby overseas and get another coach and put in your Aphlons,De Jongs and jantjes and watch SA rugby slid down the world rankings.Just wake up everyone ,Just let Heneken Meyer try and do his best with what is available.And remember you dont have all the individual stats and he does.
8 Nov 2012, 20:14 pm
@jacquesknotter-308: So JdJ and Aplon are not world class? Get off the bottle.
8 Nov 2012, 20:19 pm
@jacquesknotter-308: stop drinking witblits,bud.
8 Nov 2012, 20:22 pm
@jacquesknotter-308:
Go read your comment again and mull over it… It is absurd to say the least…
8 Nov 2012, 20:34 pm
@Gumboots-311:
Looks like he’s received a good keo welcome!
Can’t wait for the cricket.
One of my Bulls mates told me today he woke up at 1am this morning to watch the cricket. And realised he was a day early. Tells you a lot about Bulls supporters. hahaha.
8 Nov 2012, 20:39 pm
@gumboots 311 – jacques is entitle to his opinion, whether you agree or not. You will find that his opinion are shared by others in his social environment and it is important that the undelying reasons are discussed on a public forum such as Keo.
8 Nov 2012, 20:43 pm
@John1976-313: Fair enough,but then you don’t drink and post at the same time.
8 Nov 2012, 20:47 pm
@John1976-313:
Go and read #308 again. Slowly.
Initially he says get another coach in.
And at the end he says just let Heineken Meyer do his best.
And stats are easy to find.
That was the most confusing post I’ve read. And I’ve read a few.
8 Nov 2012, 20:47 pm
For as long as we refer to race we have not been transformed ourselves…including the rase obsessed Keo and Gwede and all you other so called true Sout Africans.HM is a rugby man who loves the sport and therefore he doesn’t look at race and good on him for that!!
8 Nov 2012, 20:59 pm
@Diplomatic oeK-316: We are not part of his inner circle,so we really don’t know his state of mind regarding any issue of SA life.If you are a friend of Heyneke,then good on you I say.
8 Nov 2012, 21:07 pm
@Diplomatic oek: We are not transformed,South Africa is not transformed and lets not pretend it is. Anyone who does not believe that HM’s selections have no racial bias is just as dillusional as he is. As rugby people we are upset that he is robbing SA Rugby off putting out its best team, while changing the image of the sport at the same time. Zane Kirschner deserves to keep his spot based on his performances in the Rugby Chapionship but I promise you if Bryan Habbana were fit Zane would be out to keep the numbers at the negotiated 3. On which planet did Taute become a better 13 than JdJ, a capped and experienced Springbok?! Gwede and Keo just called it like most us see it.
8 Nov 2012, 21:29 pm
You are part of Keo’s team of window dressing black-and-white queens…you deserve to have snorre as your coach. Typical attention seeking Saffas…and you think that the majority of S Africans will respect you because of your liberal think…hahaha you make a BIG mistake my friend, ooooooooh ee:-)
8 Nov 2012, 21:37 pm
@Diplomatic oeK-319:
HM is as diplomatik as Jimmy Kruger who said “Steve Biko’s death leaves me cold”. Cold to core. Biets!
8 Nov 2012, 21:41 pm
@I am a stormer-315: He was really suggesting because of the perceived political interference that it is best that HM resigns from his position and the SA team are renamed to Proteas. Then all the players like JdJ, Aplon and Jantjies, that people are punting, can be selected which led to the downfall of our national rugby team.. Now I don’t agree with what he is saying but I reckon we must find out why he is thinking that way.
8 Nov 2012, 21:54 pm
Nog altyd.
8 Nov 2012, 21:54 pm
I also don’t support HM’s obsession with Zane, Morne and that pathetic J Kruger but believe you me, this man is someone you can trust your life with and for that I salute and respect his choices. He is afterall the bok coach hello!! To imply that HM is all of a sudden a racist is sad, pathetic and can only come from someone with deep entrenhed racial issues. Keo knows his followers and he knows how to get you to jump for that little carrot…makes me think of Julius’s attempts to cash in on poor uneducated miners…and Hitler on down and out Germans, fuckit its sad. Keo wishes he was half of Vusi Kama!!!
8 Nov 2012, 21:59 pm
@Diplomatic oeK-323:
Are you his lawyer or PR man? Is your name Mitt or Carl?
8 Nov 2012, 22:04 pm
@Diplomatic oeK-323:
” this man is someone you can trust your life with and for that I salute and respect his choice”
Tell that to the players hes thrown under the bus….
8 Nov 2012, 22:10 pm
It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure out that this article is feeding on jealousy and regret of not being in the inner circle anymore. I am only interested in talking rugby on this site, not “Huilgenoot” content, but its always about race?!? Fuckit can we please stop doing it? By the way, I agree Jantjies and maybe even Chilly should have been in the 22 with JdJ a starter!!
8 Nov 2012, 22:11 pm
@Te Rangatira-325:
ja, kiwi, and the word “salute” says it all.
8 Nov 2012, 22:45 pm
So if a black soccer coach does not pick a white player does this make him a racist? But HM now is one…. seriously I wish this country could grow up! Why are the whites always labeled as racist? Yet a large portion of our country will support the all blacks (New Zealand) instead of shouting for your own country (Springboks)…. bladdy disgusting! Believe me most New Zealand fans think very little of you waving a All Black flag with your roots in Africa. The All Blacks are proud of their team and they are proud of the great history between the two teams.. They think you are a laugh. The main thing even if you wanted to live in NZ you would not be able to, LOL. So do us whites go on calling you a racist because you betray your country?
I am NO HM fan, but to call him a racist is pathetic…. He is an Idiot “yes”!
Jantjies should of been in the mix,
De Jongh should of started at 13
Mvovo should of started at 11 (Hougaard out, he does nothing)
Taute at 15 with Kirchner out (he is a shocker)
Those calling for Chilli Boy, he can’t get a no 1 start for the Bulls, but he must play for the boks? WTF!!!!!! If this is your thinking you should not watch rugby.
Morne Steyn in the mix is all the proof that Heyneke Meyer is in fact RETARDED and not a RACIST!
So leave the ******* politics out and try unit, braai, drink and enjoy the rugga!
8 Nov 2012, 22:45 pm
Boks going to get fck’d up Saturday and Meyer is going to bedank
serves the twit right.., idiot moron stuffing up players careers through his outright ingrained idiocy.
And all these blou bulle were saying this doos was the real deal messiah.. even Mark Keohane was convinced of it… after he said regarding P Divvy ‘never again’ now he lands up with someone far worse out his comfort zone even than that…how bloody wrong could anyone ever possibly be?
8 Nov 2012, 23:25 pm
@Sandytoes-328:
an a bit of dagga on the side
8 Nov 2012, 23:57 pm
@Sandytoes-328: Still working on the desert?
8 Nov 2012, 23:58 pm
@wnbb-331: in the desert.
9 Nov 2012, 00:27 am
Well that just proves that polititians know fakall about rugby…ne?
9 Nov 2012, 00:28 am
Especially racist ANC polititians……should stick to ripping off joe public and giving tenders to family members, something they know alot about!!
9 Nov 2012, 00:30 am
@skopdiekan-329:
Go to bed twat, you are dribbling down your chin again……….or is that a brown substance?
9 Nov 2012, 00:33 am
@Sandytoes-328:
Actualy boet, some good points………….
9 Nov 2012, 00:34 am
@KeurboomPark-330:
Better than the pitte you rook ou pel!
9 Nov 2012, 00:42 am
Credit where it’s due, this is a very good piece, Mark.
Yes, Jantjies is the ‘incumbent’ even if he got there through Goosen’s injury. And from my recollection, he did nothing wrong in that game…far more right…and a great deal more right than Steyn has done all year.
Ditto de Jongh, who is surely the form player in his position right now.
Unfortunately, there’s always a flip side…why is Kirchner at full-back?
Perhaps it has more to do with Meyer’s provincial allegiances than anything racial.
Now a favour, Keo…how about a cricket thread for the duration of the three tests in Aus? It’s going to be a great contest, surely there are many who would love to share their views on it, many advertisers who will happily throw their moola at it?
Could be a nice Christmas bonus for your mob and, best of all, with Ryan overseas, he can’t get his hands on it, screw it up!!!
9 Nov 2012, 00:44 am
One more point…
I’ll happily give you a ‘cut and paste’ report on each day’s play, other interesting developments, etc. to get the blogs going.
9 Nov 2012, 01:38 am
How much did keo collect from his masters to write that gem of a thread?
Or they might have gotten it for free?
9 Nov 2012, 01:39 am
328 sandytoes
The soccer coach is white and he selects whites players. Chilliboy is the Bulls first choice hooker. That statement should actually tell you how much you know about SA rugby. The reason certain people choose to surport teams from other countries is not unique to rugby. Try watching England vs Bafana tapes and see what i mean. And im curious is retarded a better insult compared to racist?
9 Nov 2012, 02:11 am
Watching the cricket at midnight!Crazy,but lovely.
9 Nov 2012, 02:29 am
Skop supporting the opposition again.
What a pathetic little runt.
9 Nov 2012, 03:30 am
Well looks like the Aussies stuck to the “dossier” and got Smith LBW………
Hope it was just a lucky one. Anyone see if Amla is getting a verbal or not?
9 Nov 2012, 06:41 am
As a New Zealander who has watched Jantjies play for the Lions both live on several occasions during 2010 and 2011 seasons and on regularly on television I am amazed he is not the current Springbok flyhalf. Johan Goosen has shown plenty of potential and is definitely another who can challenge for that role when recovered from injury but Jantjies has paid his dues and shone in teams with limited experience and potential. He should have the number 10 jersey by right.
Jantjies is the only South African flyhalf who always challenges the defensive line and provides his back line with ball on the gain line.He still has enormous upside with untapped future potential. Compare Jantjies upside with that of Patrick Lambie. As reliable as he is, I do not see Lambie getting much better than what we have already seen. Lambie, like Francois Steyn, has become a victim of the potential destroying South African habit of placing a player in multiple positions and never letting him get the necessary hours on the job in his best position.
Morne Steyn is a sit in the pocket, kicking flyhalf who has lost his best asset, his goal kicking mojo. But even if his accuracy returns he will never possess the necessary instincts to ignite South Africa’s potential filled outside backs. I would go further and say that, because. Morne Steyn has been the Boks flyhalf for so long South Africa’s outside backline talent has withered.
Heineke Meyer has found the International arena a greater challenge than he imagined and has reverted to the typical Africaans coaching type conservatism. It will prove both his and the Boks undoing.
9 Nov 2012, 06:49 am
@Transformation-171: Oh wow, so you know the advocate do you?
Care to give me his/her details so I can confirm your allegation?
9 Nov 2012, 06:51 am
@bokfan1-181: I am talking about my own country & sportsmen.
Prick.
9 Nov 2012, 06:57 am
@wnbb-187: You’d be surprised.
@Transformation-199: Hey Einstein, there were no Boks to support because of isolation, remember?
And BTW, I believe isolation was the best way to go at the time.
9 Nov 2012, 07:16 am
@ Tac post 58.
This is what is called the laager mentality. Why select someone you know won’t perform than someone who could perform. The MS that has his his 1st 30 caps is not around at the moment. Your insurance is null and void.
EJ could be on fire.
The bigger gamble is playing Morne.
9 Nov 2012, 09:00 am
I have to say that HM is probably both racially biased and stupid. Steyn shouldn’t be anywhere near a bok jersey on this tour, in fact he should be at home with his wife. Taute is nowhere at centre, and has done nothing to justify his inclusion in that (or any position) at this point in time, apart from his size. Well, we saw how far that got Spies….
JDJ has shown that he is good enough and should be given more time in the Bok Jersey, and Jantjies should be Lambie’s cover on the bench, simple as that. I had such hope when HM was appointed as Bok coach, but have watched in horror as he has shown his hand. I would far rather have Divvy still there to be honest.
9 Nov 2012, 10:09 am
@306.saru1983 – i agree, and not only racist toward blacks, but English too!
To pick MS before PL & EJ is racist from all sides. I think when HM brings MS his morning coffee in bed they discuss the demise if SA rugby and how the previous evenings dinner tasted.
@323.Diplomatic oeK – someone you can trust your life with? maybe, unless you were in a death match against ZK, MS or J Krger. then you would have to watch your back to cos whilst your fighting HM would try shaft you up the bum just before you die.
9 Nov 2012, 10:23 am
@Dylan-351: Trust you have a lot of experience in the bum-shafting department. It is about the only statement of value that you have made. You can only be recist towards someone with a racial identity. clearly this is not the case with the English. Please, in future think carefully before spewing drivel, alternatively, shut-up and sit in the corner while the big people are talking.
9 Nov 2012, 11:17 am
I am 100% behind Meyer
9 Nov 2012, 11:57 am
@greatest13gerber-353: duh – no brain to think with for yourself? I agree totally with Mark on this one. Shocking. De Jongh and Jantjes as well as playing Taute out of position yet again and placing Francois Houghaard at wing ahead of Lwazi. Really really poor – as was his avoidance of giving Siya Kolisi a chance when he so easily could have. Too many Bulls players all year long. Pierre Spies ad nauseum, Jacques Potgieter, Wynand Olivier (who would probably be in the midfield today had he not gone to Japan). Poolman (whO??ffs). And to think we complained about PDV? Meyer has made some very very poor selections this year.
9 Nov 2012, 12:13 pm
Hmmm… yeah.
De Jongh should be in for JDV, and JDV should be booted from the boks. Kolisi should have been chosen instead of Vermeulen. Lwazi should have been chosen before JP. ROFL.
Guys, Meyer (as much as I dislike the guy) did say he’s gonna test all players in these three games to find the players he’ll be going forward with. Which means, Jantjies will undoubtedly be the starting 10 next week, as well as De Jongh.
Mvovo doesn’t deserve to be there. This season he was terrible… nothing like he was last year. Rhule should be ahead of Lwazi.
9 Nov 2012, 12:18 pm
“MARK KEOHANE writes that Heyneke Meyer’s failure to include Elton Jantjies in the Bok match 23 cannot be excused or justified”.
CANE writes………………………………..You can’t keep all the people happy, all of the time……………………..so Heyneke may as well please himself.
So phuuck Markie.
9 Nov 2012, 12:19 pm
Meyer, in his first year as Sprinbok coach, has been FAR worse than Snorre was.
He is beyond conservative and an absolutely blind fool.
Certainly giving Streauli a go as the worst coach in the modern era.
9 Nov 2012, 12:39 pm
http://www.grassrootsrugby.co.za/?cat=1
9 Nov 2012, 14:00 pm
oopa gangnam style
9 Nov 2012, 15:50 pm
I was so encouraged when HM was selected as coach but my goodness, I am hoping we lose all three games to get rid of him. (Can’t believe I would EVER say that I would wish the Boks to lose!!!). Give me PdV anyday! HM can hide behind injuries, but its not injuries that we lost the Championship, it has been poor selection and poor captaincy. We have the talent, no doubt! We had the AB’s on the rack in Dunedin 9and the Assie’s in Perth – that’s proof enough!
MK’s article is 100% but way to long. Its simple. Steyn doesn’t deserve to be on Tour, let alone in the match day 23! Finish and Klaar. It has nothing to do with colour. Jantjies, right now, is better than Steyn. What more is there to be said!
9 Nov 2012, 16:41 pm
Let’s put keow’s agenda’s to one side for a moment. He isn’t called the Poison Dwarf for nothing.
Focus on Meyer (and his coaching team) for a moment. I don’t care who he picks; it’s the results that count for me and him (lol). So far he is not doing well. A better coach would either have dropped or fixed MS when he got the yips (a reliable place kicker is imperative in Test rugby). A better coach would have a well drilled team that can keep a defensive pattern and doesn’t give up turnover ball easily, lose lineouts and give away scrum penalties. A better coach would have depth and flexibility in an extended Bok squad where very player knew his place and the team’s tactics. A better coach would improve any player that came into the Bok squad but wouldn’t boast or crow over this (Lambie was no better yet HM claimed success?).
Heineken gonna havta improve.
9 Nov 2012, 17:19 pm
@Bouts-355: The fact that Rhule is a Cheetah has nothing to do with your opinion ?
9 Nov 2012, 18:24 pm
Heyneke is very naive i’ll say. How can JdJ not get a place in the starting. He is on current form our best 13. Hougaard is selected as a scrum half, what message is he sending out to the wings in the squad!
9 Nov 2012, 22:45 pm
Jantjies is not the shocker – he’s average
the shocker is de Jong who is bladdy good. It’s actually completely wrong – tge guy has consistently been outstanding.
these okes are actually their own worst enemies – he’s now going to cone under increasing pressure from the politicians – and in this case rightfully so , it’s complete bullshit.
9 Nov 2012, 23:06 pm
Meyer is as thick as pig sh1te. Simple as that.
10 Nov 2012, 04:07 am
@Beast-352:
“You can only be recist towards someone with a racial identity. clearly this is not the case with the English. ”
I’m sure you can explain this.
What is your definition of a “racist”
10 Nov 2012, 13:17 pm
Wish Keo would stop pulling the race card – get over it
Showing faith in players who have performed well in the past at least shows a little loyalty, something the “disadvantaged” Keohane knows f…all about
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