Meyer’s men must enjoy the adventure
12 Nov 2012
MARK KEOHANE, in his Business Day newspaper column, says a defeat in 2012 should not be seen as a disaster by the Springboks.
What should be an adventure seemingly has the restriction of a chore. The Springboks are playing with fear of failure when they should be playing with the freedom of fantasy.
It starts with an inexperienced management whose passion for the job is being transferred with too much tension and not enough enjoyment.
Somebody within the leadership of South African rugby has to give Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer comfort that it is not life or death each time the Springboks play.
It may feel like we’ve lost someone on those Saturday evenings when the Boks stumble but sport’s cruelty that a team is only as good as its last game is also its kindness, because there is always the next game to win to allow us all to feel life again.
Meyer needs a soundboard. He needs a man of integrity, with the necessary international experience to allow him to talk out loud without a judgement being made that he is inadequate for the job.
He is good enough to guide the Boks to a position of strength in the world order but he must feel he is operating in a vacuum, a lot of it self-inflicted because of a belief that to ask is to show weakness.
I write this as an observation.
The desire to get it right for fear of letting down a nation is causing anxiety. The players deliver on passion but there has been minimal fluidity in the Tests played this season.
I worked within the Bok management a decade ago at a time when the playing talent was not as inspirational as now and when results were poor. No player ever lost deliberately.
They lose because in most cases they aren’t good enough on the day. The Boks won in Dublin because Ireland weren’t good enough, player for player, or as a collective.
The Irish passion lasted for 40 minutes — 20 minutes more than is the norm for any home team with fantastic support. The 12-3 scoreline, however, was not a reflection of any superiority.
The second half was comfortable for the Boks because they were stronger in the collisions and were never threatened in defence.
The Boks were rightfully expected to win but the pressure the coaching staff are feeling was illustrated in Meyer’s post-match admission it would have been a disaster had they lost.
It would have been difficult to accept given the Boks’ superior playing pedigree but it would not have been a disaster.
The coaching staff ideally want to win every weekend, but there has to be realism that the heart of the Bok pack is new to international rugby and that the coaching staff are feeling as vulnerable. If ever a team is given a pardon it is in the first year after a World Cup when most rebuild in the hope of peaking at the next World Cup.
Meyer’s approach that every Test has to be viewed as a World Cup final is not flawed in that he never wants to diminish a Test match but the execution is creating trepidation when there should be expectation.
There have been short bursts against England and Australia in Pretoria to confirm a player’s ability to play with width, keep the ball and be effective on the attack.
But the overriding sense when watching the Boks is of a conservatism that fears mistakes, fears getting it wrong and doesn’t want to contemplate defeat. The All Blacks, as they did in South Africa, would have punished the hesitancy we saw in Dublin. The context is it wasn’t an impressive rugby performance from the Boks, but it isn’t down to a lack of coaching, game plan or limited player pedigree.
The pack selections are a reflection of the best available but playing Jaco Taute at outside centre and Zane Kirchner at fullback is to limit mistakes and not create opportunity.
Taute at fullback in the place of Kirchner, and introduce the flair of Juan de Jongh, and the backline would be transformed.
The rugby isn’t hard to get right, but it’s the mindset from within that isn’t proving as easy.
The Boks will develop into a very good team, but they’ll get there quicker if the management and by extension the players accept that the stumbles are part of the adventure and not the curse of the adventure.
Meyer, in his first meeting with Bryan Habana this year, told him to find his smile again and he would find his international form.
Where others viewed complexity Meyer recognised the simplicity in the equation.
Smile, Heyneke. It could just be what transforms fractured performances into fluid ones.
258 Comments
12 Nov 2012, 10:02 am
adventurous dragons?
12 Nov 2012, 10:10 am
‘freedom of fantasy’ …hoe gaan dit gebeur as die coach nie imagination het
12 Nov 2012, 10:12 am
“Smile, Heyneke” …you’re the @ss of the year
12 Nov 2012, 10:28 am
3. And there you have it, the reason why the coach feels the pressure so much.
As if you would have lost just the 3 games this year
12 Nov 2012, 10:32 am
NZ has NEVER lost to Ireland.
And here we are saying it would have been all fine had we lost AGAIN to Ireland?
Wake up.
12 Nov 2012, 10:33 am
Ja Mark. In principle I cannot agree much as this is something seen in most SA teams and one of my ongoing criticism of the Stormers.
There is a difference in the mindset when you play to win rather than playing not to lose.
But realistically, just have a read around blogs and newspapers and just about any SA media channel and social media. You think this fear is born out of Meyer’s insecurities or for the fact that there is no way in hell the SA media and supporters will ever allow him the freedom (of failure) you refer to above.
12 Nov 2012, 10:35 am
@PissAnt-6:
Sorry, should read in principle I cannot DISAGREE much…
12 Nov 2012, 10:35 am
6. Exactly.
12 Nov 2012, 10:44 am
5 yip terrible attitude all we’ve heard this year is how the Bokke are rebuilding and losing is ok, that excuse won’t wear next year and you can’t use the travel excuse now with the Argies involved. Meyer is a 60%er who may fluke a world cup.
12 Nov 2012, 10:45 am
in all my time on this blog I have seen reference to the amazing depth of talent in SA rugby time and time again..
will there ever come a day when results actually highlight this so called “depth”?
12 Nov 2012, 10:47 am
@poppa69-10:
The day they start fixing the game where the real problems lie, you might. But it’s easier to blame coach after coach after coach.
You sell more advertising space that way and people can continue on that gravy train for longer.
12 Nov 2012, 10:47 am
JdV’s leadership got the boys over the line on Saturday.Great player and inspirational leader I say.Must be difficult for him having more intelligence than the coach.
12 Nov 2012, 10:48 am
so keo, are you saying the bokke have no BMT? is SA rugby k@k? using your template one would have to say it is..
12 Nov 2012, 10:50 am
Pops, apparently they have the most talented players and the most depth of any country and if it wasn’t for poor coaching they’d be the New Zealand of world rugby.
12 Nov 2012, 10:52 am
@PissAnt-11:
You might be happy to see that I quoted Pierre Villepreux on the “Boks still in search of balance” thread.
12 Nov 2012, 10:52 am
@PissAnt-11: grassroots is the key,as Im sure you know PA… until that structure changes you guys wont ever reach your potential
12 Nov 2012, 10:53 am
@WP-Forever-15:
Which comment, I will go read up!
12 Nov 2012, 10:53 am
@poppa69-16:
Grassroots, and the fact that SA Rugby is controlled by a president’s council who makes executive decisions for personal or union gain ahead of national.
The rot goes deep in this country mate.
12 Nov 2012, 10:54 am
@NZINCHINA-14: they should import all the talent like we do when we raid the islands
12 Nov 2012, 10:58 am
When is the next raiding party, dragging back to NZ in chains.
12 Nov 2012, 10:58 am
@poppa69-19:
Is that an admission of guilt?
12 Nov 2012, 11:02 am
because there is always the next game to win to allow us all to feel life again.
That would ring true apart from the fact that the Boks have not given 80 minutes if good rugby for years now. Closest we came this year was that brilliant first half performance vs England. I for one and getting really fed up with us not being able to improve the very basics of our game and learn a trick or two from the ALl Blacks. Its really not that hard to analyze their play and see just why it is theyre playing better rugby.
12 Nov 2012, 11:03 am
@PissAnt-18:thats a shame PA.. Ive always said a strong SA is good for NZ rugby… it pushes us to keep evolving, and isolation basically created a divide in SA rugby that needs to heal before you guys can once again become the powerhouse you used to be..
countries like Ireland, Scotland etc are not intimidated by your rugby anymore, and have a firm belief that they can beat you..
12 Nov 2012, 11:04 am
HM en zane le seker bakkie op toer
12 Nov 2012, 11:05 am
@poppa69-23:
All true. Had an interesting discussion with an ex-pro a week ago. We both believe rugby in SA is going through an evolution. What we seriously lack in the game currently is concise leadership to steer this.
12 Nov 2012, 11:06 am
We simply don’t have the class of coaching staff in this country that New Zealand has, and there is no proper succession plan in place. We try re-invent the wheel every four years without any proper continuity in playing philosophy. We also don’t pick the best coaches we have due to fear of personality clashes. Jake White and Eddie Jones proved that you can get passed your ego to achieve a greater goal. Meyer has picked his buddies on his coaching staff, not the best men for the job.
12 Nov 2012, 11:09 am
Good discussion Pops and Pissant.Interesting to note that it is possible when clowns like Gunther,Katman etc etc are absent.
12 Nov 2012, 11:09 am
@WP-Forever-21: yep, Im feeling guilty that thousands of people chose NZ as a place to advance their lives
12 Nov 2012, 11:11 am
@poppa69-28:
Did you attend any Remembrance Day commemorations yesterday?
I ended up playing The Last Post at 10:58, then a minute’s silence, and then The Rouse, at home.
Lest we forget.
12 Nov 2012, 11:16 am
@PissAnt-25: you guys need another Doc Craven, but with a 21st century attitude to the game and to the possible talent that you could have in abundance..
thats where NZ is lucky imo, no matter where in the country you are there are facilities and dad coaches with a deep love of the game that are willing to be the unsung heroes..
I read Mccaws book, and he cant praise enough one of his first coaches, the meticulous way he kept notes on all the players in his team etc…its this dedication by ordinary citizens that keeps us near the top I think.
12 Nov 2012, 11:17 am
@wnbb-27: Too late. I’m here, you little maggot. So what are we talking about?
12 Nov 2012, 11:19 am
@WP-Forever-29: Remembrance Day? That’s when they convince Kiwis not to drink for one night, so they can remember it the following day?
12 Nov 2012, 11:19 am
Any more defeats for Heyneke would be a disaster, because he has only now – after beating Ireland – achieved a 50% win record. That’s right – 5 wins out of 10 Tests. This was also his first away win. That is piss-poor. The end result is that he will only become more conservative – not less. He is caught in a trap of his own making.
12 Nov 2012, 11:20 am
I also feel that Meyer’s selections make no sense.
- In form players not being selected or given minimal opportunity.
- Players being played out of position
- out of form players being selected game after game.
And there seems to be no “link” between whats happening with the forwards and the backs. The forwards seem to be settling nicely and doing pretty well for a fairly experienced bunch having only played a handfull of tests together. Heaven only knows what is happening with the backs.
12 Nov 2012, 11:20 am
THis is such BS
APologetic nonsense
Ox wagons circling for the Messiah Meyer to protect im from even himself
Springboks are answerable to the public,this are not the Blue Corridors of Loftus
Even though with van Graan Jnr,Loubscher,McFarland one maybe be excused in thinking its the Loftus canteen
12 Nov 2012, 11:21 am
Let me write like Keo.
And make every single sentence (almost).
A new paragraph.
Or maybe it’s for a reason?
Perhaps it makes for easy reading for a few of our intelligent folk that frequently post on this site and unknowingly keep others amused
12 Nov 2012, 11:22 am
@WP-Forever-29: indeed I observed the minutes silence at 11am…
12 Nov 2012, 11:23 am
@poppa69-30:
One of our biggest stumbling blocks Pop is the fact that a lot of South Africans feels like they were hard done by or that someone owes them something.
It is a long journey we must still complete. Even I suffer from this where I know I could add to my local club or school but I just could not be bothered. As citizens we need to get to a point where we believe we can all add to a cause – relevant to this discussion, is taking our passion for rugby and contribute in any small way we can – and its amazing how many opportunities there are to do just that.
12 Nov 2012, 11:28 am
@kaksioek-33:
not particularly great analysis….
the boks have won 5 but lost only 3 with 2 draws.
and as we have now seen the argies beat the 6 nation champs away from home and we drew 1 at home against the 4 ranked side in the world.
2 of our 3 losses we in all probability should have won and were definately the better side up until the 70th minute.
not a bad return at all considering the situation with player retirements and injuries as well as no continuety from the last coaching setup.
We will be significantly better next season in my opinion.
12 Nov 2012, 11:32 am
@PissAnt-38: I cant fully grasp the complexities of that PA..
12 Nov 2012, 11:33 am
@poppa69-30: Hi Poppa, when you speak about coaches, coaching the younger players, do the young ones start with a free flowing game asap ? In other words, isn’t there a stage when the coaches use their big boys to run over the opposition or is the attacking, off-loading in the tackle attitude taught from a young age ? The reason why I am asking is, I have been coaching an U/14 side for the first time this year.
I started off coaching at primary school level (12 years ago) but at U/19 level (the previous 4 years) as well. What I have found is that certain good players (who happen to be quite big for their age) did not have a lot of skills: they were used to bash the ball up from nearly every phase of play – 2 big centres as well as a no 8. They used the 8 (he is at a different school now) from scrums, from the following ruck the one centre would take the ball up and the other centre from the next ruck etc.
We were doing skills’ training once a week for close to 90 minutes the past season. The skills of the boys have improved a lot but eventually we had to move the inside centre (at primary school) to the wing because we’ve realised that he did not have quick hands. This might be some useless info but I was just wondering about the way the coaches of your schools’ teams go about their training. There is no short route to success
12 Nov 2012, 11:34 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-39: You’re a Meyer apologist, but that’s your prerogative.
The facts are that, since 1997, only Carel du Plessis (37%) has had a worse record than Meyer’s current record.
Rudolf Straeuli (52%) and Harry Viljoen (53%) finished with superior records.
12 Nov 2012, 11:40 am
@kaksioek-42:
ja, lucky a coach doesn’t get fired after just one game he would have a 0% win ratio.
12 Nov 2012, 11:40 am
@wnbb-12: When its good its JdV, when its bad it’s HM…..Your anti Meyer sentiment is clouding the little judgement you have.
12 Nov 2012, 11:41 am
@kaksioek-42: Operative word being ‘finished’ in your post. Meyer is not done yet.
12 Nov 2012, 11:41 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-39:
Difference is OZ had more injuries than Boks with an inferior talent pool and still finished ahead of us in RC (Genia,Cooper,Simons,Horwill,Moore,Higginbotham,Pocock,Palu,Mitchell,Oconnor,Horne,Timani,Barnes etc)
Oz hav had 5 locks playing,4 captains,a multitude of halfbk combos
France would also belt the Boks the way they played vs Wallabies
So excuses excuses for Boks,sorry doesnt cut it.
Boks are poor.50% record is along Straueli territory
12 Nov 2012, 11:42 am
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE-44:
ja imagine how matfield and dupreez must have felt under Twakkie…hell, even the physio knew more…..
12 Nov 2012, 11:42 am
THe most exciting game this weekend was Argentina v Wales. Boy have the argies gained from being in the RWC, whoa!! The Argie backline moves are way better than the Boks. at the moment!!
I don’t think Argentina need a team/s in the S15 at all, most of their players are in the top teams in France anway. Why bother getting their players stuffed up flying back and forth through time zones in the SH!!
12 Nov 2012, 11:42 am
@PissAnt-38: Very very true words there PA.
12 Nov 2012, 11:42 am
@CharlesM-41: skills training once a week? not enough, should do skills at every training session.. also when I was young we used weight for age groupings, so you played against others roughly your size, hence the focus on skills like stepping, swerving etc became more prominent..
get your laaities (hope thats right) to finish their training with a 20 minute game of touch rugby…this teaches them to run into space to advance the ball because they cant run over the top of someone.. I think you will notice the improvement fairly quickly..
12 Nov 2012, 11:43 am
@kaksioek-42:
Carel du Plessis was only given eight matches at the helm.
After a poor start to the Tri-Nations in 1997 – a narrow loss at Ellis Park against the All Blacks, and then two away losses to Australia and New Zealand – there was a concerted media campaign to get rid of him, led by, amongst others, Mark Keohane.
One of the best Springbok performances was the last with du Plessis as coach, when we thrashed Australia at Loftus, scoring eight trees to their three. Percy scored two tries that day, Jannie de Beer ended up scoring 26 points.
After du Plessis Mallett was appointed, and we embarked on an amazing winning streak.
12 Nov 2012, 11:46 am
@poppa69-50: Province teams all play touchies after training and it seems to be working wonders, except they play it in the showers………
12 Nov 2012, 11:47 am
@mshiniwami-46:
but oz have had 4 seasons of continuetry with deans involved. Injuries in this case are only half the story, Sa has had any number of retirements and players unavailible (dupreez,bakkies,guthro,jaque fourie,etc)
Our new coach was only emplyed in the new year with assistants only able to join him after the inbound tour?
so seriously? Do you have your own business or manage a team of employees of 50+ or so?
If you did you would understand the ethos of building a team requires time.
12 Nov 2012, 11:48 am
@WP-Forever-51: I know all of that. Point it out to Brigadier Van Zyl and KWAGGA ROBERTSE. Meyer is lucky he has had 10 games in charge.
12 Nov 2012, 11:48 am
South African rugby won’t develop to a constant NZ standard until we completely revamp our entire schools rugby coaching and selection philosophy in line with what NZ has been doing for ages.
Check out this Rugby Management Policy from St Peters College in Auckland and compare it to how we think in SA. Specifically look at the Selection Etiquette section:
http://www.st-peters.school.nz/StPeters/media/images/Documents/Sport/Rugby/SPC–management-policy-2012—Website.pdf
12 Nov 2012, 11:48 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-47:
Yeah same how it fels to be Lambie,De Jongh,Aplon,Jantjies,Hougaard, etc or basically ANY PLAYER who is a ball player/X factor guy under Meyer….Pretty fckin depressing
12 Nov 2012, 11:48 am
@poppa69-40:
Most South Africans can’t either!
12 Nov 2012, 11:49 am
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE-52:
12 Nov 2012, 11:51 am
@WP-Forever-51:
no, the real problem with DuPlessis is that he should never have been there in the first place. Any number of players will tell you that he had no idea, nada. no planning withregards to touring or anything. Hell, the boks even arrived late for the test match in nz when they leaked 55 points. What sort of preparation is that?
and You would compare DuPlessis with Meyer?
laughable
anyone will tell you that. Oh, and I still see duPlessis hanging out in Stellies opposite Paul roos every so often.
12 Nov 2012, 11:52 am
@poppa69-50: Poppa, I meant that one session per week is dedicated to skills exclusively. On the other days while doing warm-ups we do skills training as well. We do touch rugby as well. You need to keep the laaities interested in the game.
What I was trying to get across is that at very junior level (U/13 in our case or even younger), the coaches use the bigger boys to bash it up instead of using their skills. By doing this, the level of skills never develops because the coach is only interested in winning.
12 Nov 2012, 11:53 am
@PissAnt-57:
12 Nov 2012, 11:53 am
@kaksioek-54: Why should he consider himself lucky? Becuase you said so?
I’ve pointed out my views on Meyer enough times already. No use doing it again.
12 Nov 2012, 11:56 am
Hey Poppa, welcome back! Seriously. Thoroughly enjoying the exchange between you and PA.
12 Nov 2012, 11:56 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-53:
Mate you can spin it however you like.White had a depleted team of largely scarred nobodies in 04,the first team that tok field vs Irish in series had hardly an real caps or contunity
And Oz have a Inferior pool to us by far,look at the super rugby performances and depth chart? its night and day.No excuses
The point of have a business of my own is a moot one as it highly subjective and context is very different in a rugby dynamic/environment than that of te corporate world.
As a matter of fact though I do have/own a company of my own and no dont have 50+ employees.More around 20-25.But still that has little to no bearing here
Spin this nonsense all you want,it still stinks.if it smells and looks like sh*t,mate its SH*t
First coaches like Ewen McKenzie at Reds had tremendous success with an even worse state of affairs.
Spin spin spin
12 Nov 2012, 11:57 am
@CharlesM-60: ok my mistake… umfezi has highlighted my point about weight for age groups… it places emphasis on beating a man with skill rather than size or strength..
12 Nov 2012, 11:58 am
@mshiniwami-56:
that’s pretty funny and I would expect more from an experienced blogger like you.
Every article you read will tell you that meyer is very concerned withregards to the lack of x-factor amongst his backs.
By the way, Lambie is playing so is hougaard, dejong is on the bench and covers 12/13. Elton is not on the bench but then so what….all he would have done is sit on the bench for another 80 minutes?
I believe Taute to be a far superior selection than dejong anyway. So he doesn’t play 13 regularly? did jean devilliers play 14 regularly, or frans steyn at 14 and 13, what about Smit at 3? there are many instances of coaches trying to get what he sees to be his best players on the park all at the same time which means in some instances players aren’t in their preffered spots.
With players coming back from injury next season we will have a vastly stronger side and by default much better depth to call on.
12 Nov 2012, 11:59 am
watching the boks on saturday i just couldn’t help feeling that none of them are enjoying themselves, having fun or playing with any exuberance…
so many sports people say that they will play their sport while it is fun and when the fun stops it it time to reassess things and look for something else to do…
seems the joy of playing rugby has been sucked right out of the boks…
sad to see…
12 Nov 2012, 12:00 pm
@mikeybrass-63: cheers Mikey
12 Nov 2012, 12:01 pm
@race of tan-48: The french clubs hold the players ransom and the RC clashes with the french league.
12 Nov 2012, 12:01 pm
@CharlesM-60:
In my experience rugby players from school to club level (where I have been involved) are not coached on the game, they are instructed on how to play the game (the way the coach believes or sees fit).
Coaching requires players to get an understanding, a purpose on what they need to do, not being told what to do and ordered to execute.
Once a player understands a specific purpose/exercise/strategy/area of play their game automatically improves by at least 5%.
We have a lot of rugby instructors in this country, we have very few rugby coaches.
12 Nov 2012, 12:01 pm
@mshiniwami-64:
reds got smashed by 65 points by the bulls this season.
don’t blame injuries, or do we on this occassion?
you talk twak and selectively select philosophies depending on the situation and slant of your argument.
12 Nov 2012, 12:05 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-66: What Meyer says in articles and what he actually does are as far removed from each other as Israel and Palestine.
Taute is definitely a fullback, so I’ll play him at 13.
Lambie is defintely a fullback as well, but because the people like him, I’m playing him at 10.
I need to rest Morne so instead of leaving at home to rest, I’m dragging him to Europe, because he is the “Outsurance” of the team.
Keegan Daniel is ideal for the Boks when we play a team like Australia, so I’m going to drop him from the squad all together for the Aussie test abroad.
You see?
So when Meyer says he wants players with the X-factor, what he is actually saying is: “If they can’t kick, I don’t want them”. A la Rhule……..
12 Nov 2012, 12:06 pm
@mshiniwami-64: Keo has changed his tune now along with Meyer, the WORLD CUP is now the be-all and end-all of Test rugby, not WIN RATIOS!
Mediocrity triumphs
This entry was posted on Monday, December 4th, 2006
We are not a mediocre sporting nation that settles for second best. And what the Springboks have offered in the last 24 months has been second best, writes Keo in his Business Day column.
An opportunity was lost in not dismissing Jake White as Springbok coach. One victory, against an England side whose only success in their last nine internationals was against the Boks, has created an illusion of comfort.
The President’s Council determined that White was the right man to lead South Africa to the World Cup. They were comfortable in everything White was doing and expressed confidence in his so-called World Cup plan and in his team’s performances for 2006.
Apparently they also accepted White’s belief that Santa Claus lives.
Flying White to Cape Town from London to give him a pat on the back, at a cost of R40 000, was a farce and another example of the flaky fiscal discipline one associates with the South African Rugby Union.
The President’s Council, devoid of individuals with the rugby technical background, was ill-equipped to analyse White’s Boks. The structural weakness within the national organization was again exposed through the absence of a strong National Director of Rugby and a rugby technical committee. It is this Director of Rugby who should have led the inquisition into the national coach and Springbok rugby.
This person should have probed the details of White’s 59 percent success rate in 37 tests, which is less than the Boks historical test winning average of 62.24 percent. White’s success has dropped each year, from 69 percent to 66 percent to 41 percent in 2006. His selections have been poor; his choice of game plan equally poor and his refusal to change has stunted progress. These are all issues a rugby committee should have dissected.
Why could the Boks only score 18 tries in their last 11 tests? Why did they leak 33 tries in the same period? What was the explanation for crushing defeats at home against the French and All Blacks? How did the Springboks lose 49-0 to Australia in Brisbane and 32-15 to Ireland in Dublin? What technically was wrong with the Boks in Dublin that Ireland broke the Bok line on 18 occasions? Why were blokes picked and played out of position all year?
the last paragraph should be asked of the coach EVERY end of the season!
accountability!
12 Nov 2012, 12:08 pm
@PissAnt-70: Very true !! I’m really trying to get that across to the boys as well. When they realise why they are doing something, the execution improves. When it succeeds in a game, they enjoy it even more !!
12 Nov 2012, 12:08 pm
On a different note: How many tries has Taumololo scored this year? Sheez man, his try against Italy had to have been his 50000000000000000th?
He scored plensch in the WC last year, and loads in the S15….
12 Nov 2012, 12:10 pm
Peter de Villiers had a 60% winning record after 10 matches.
That included a win over the All Blacks in New Zealand.
12 Nov 2012, 12:15 pm
Boks had better be sharp against the Scots this weekend.
Gray, Strockosh, Denton, Blair, Visser, and the whole front row are class. (Ford had an off day but is a very good hooker usually)
12 Nov 2012, 12:16 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-66: “I believe Taute to be a far superior selection than dejong anyway. So he doesn’t play 13 regularly”
hahahaha
since when?
12 Nov 2012, 12:16 pm
@PissAnt-70:
very good point…
more a schoolmaster “do as i say without question” attitude than a maturer “what can i do and how can i best help you to realise your collective talent skills and practise in the match-playing environment”
12 Nov 2012, 12:16 pm
@PissAnt-70:
from mccaws book, about his coach at 7 years old
“the best thing about barneys coaching was that he made us all part of the team. his mantra was that everyone loves playing good footy, and good teams produce good players, he rotated the captaincy every week, rotated the kicking duties, both for touch and goal, and kept meticulous records of who did what in his exercise books. He wanted everyone to share in the team responsibilities. He had a cup that he’d award to the player of the day, which never went to the kid who scored the most tries, it always went to the kid who had lifted his game the most from the week before.
the one thing he did stick to was the positions he chose to play us in.
Barney remembers me as being “ball hungry” but there was no individual starring stuff, you couldnt be selfish with the ball”
this is the over riding philosophy imo of NZ rugby, its about the team first
12 Nov 2012, 12:17 pm
@WP-Forever-76:
With the players at his disposal, he should have had a win % of 70 plus.
12 Nov 2012, 12:17 pm
@ufo-79:
Jake White.
Heyneke Meyer.
What are the similarities?
12 Nov 2012, 12:21 pm
@WP-Forever-82:
exactly…
12 Nov 2012, 12:23 pm
“If ever a team is given a pardon it is in the first year after a World Cup when most rebuild in the hope of peaking at the next World Cup.”
Indeed, Keo, pardon the All Blacks for that shameful draw.
As for the rest, now, I guess, it’s alright for the Bokke to get whipped by the Scots or whatever happens to be playing as long as there is a hope for the redeeming peaking somewhere later for the World cup (and what if it do not happen, then we have other excuses involving cheating).
I guess, I have seen that traditional excuse before. Employed for years by the English. Mediocre performance is acceptable, as long as there is “a higher goal”. Weird how low the standards have set.
No wonder, many okes want Bokke to go north.
12 Nov 2012, 12:27 pm
@poppa69-80: How true. And an attitude sadly absent from SA coaching at all levels, with some rare exceptions like old Basil Brey from Bishops.
12 Nov 2012, 12:28 pm
@poppa69-80:
And in South Africa we cannot wait for the next superstar…
Our schoolboys (and again this is my personal experience) are pushed beyond belief by their parents and coaches. The actual values of sport and the game of rugby takes a very distant second or 10th place.
It is not something isolated to rugby though. Growing up and now my belief is we are almost scared for kids to think for themselves. It might be because we are conservatively overprotective or we dismiss it out of hand (that kids can think and reason).
Back to rugby.
There is a reason any kid picks up a rugby ball for the first time in his life. And that is because they enjoy and love the game. Our processes of development however puts them in categories and through time they view themselves as these limited drones we have taught them to be.
We make them scared to make mistakes – worse, we do not allow them to learn constructively from mistakes.
Practical example.
My 5 year old son has every shaped ball you can imagine, in two’s, three’s and in some cases 5 or more!
He loves playing with them, today it will be a tennis ball, tomorrow a basket ball, then a rugby ball etc etc etc.
Of course as a sports mad dad I buy him all the gear, which at one stage included a kicking tee.
Trying to teach him how to set the ball and kick it became very obvious to me very quickly that as soon as I tried to dictate the little technical aspects of this (feet position, action etc) he became bored as **** in no time whatsoever.
Now, I let him kick any bloody which way he wants to (normally copying the guys he sees on TV) and he is loving it.
It is a lesson I am forcing myself to remember for the rest of my life once he gets older – never lose your love and the fun aspect of the game (any game), then you might as well stop playing.
12 Nov 2012, 12:30 pm
@mikeybrass-85:
Bey…
12 Nov 2012, 12:31 pm
@John Galt-81: South Africa – 15-Percy Montgomery (21-
Francois Steyn 58), 14-JP Pietersen, 13-Jean
de Villiers, 12-Adrian Jacobs, 11-Bryan
Habana (22-Conrad Jantjes 48), 10-Butch
James, 9-Fourie du Preez (20-Enrico
Januarie 60), 8-Pierre Spies (18-Danie
Rossouw 76), 7-Juan Smith, 6-Schalk Burger
(19-Luke Watson 60), 5-Victor Matfield, 4-
Andries Bekker, 3-CJ van der Linde (17-
Brian Mujati 77) 2-Bismarck du Plessis (16-
Adriaan Strauss 76), 1-Tendai Mtawarira.
the above team got nilled @ Newlands in 2008
“pdv inherited a world cup winning team” that had consistently languished at number 3 in the rankings and had never beaten new zealand with any sort of consistency.
in fact a lot of these world cup winners were either disgustingly off-form or injured in 2008 but hey it was divvy’s fault that they lost and didn’t achieve 70%
12 Nov 2012, 12:33 pm
@ufo-87: He was a menance.. Always beating my school’s team with running skillful rugby
12 Nov 2012, 12:34 pm
@mikeybrass-89: menace.
12 Nov 2012, 12:34 pm
Is Pops being nice???????
12 Nov 2012, 12:37 pm
What struck me about Saturday’s game was the way in which play switched from a old-style Bulls-like approach to that employed by the Stormers earlier this year. It was as if the Stormers players – on a directive from JdV – took control of the team’s direction and strategy to grind out an ugly win as they knew how.
At least that was my distinct impression.
12 Nov 2012, 12:38 pm
@Dawn-91: It’s fantastic to see the old Poppa again
12 Nov 2012, 12:38 pm
@PissAnt-86: your last sentence is key and I agree with it completely
its about making it enjoyable so that they develop a life long passion for it too..no matter what level they reach.
Mccaw states in his book that his dad told him he’d enjoy his rugby more if he was fitter, rather then telling him he’d enjoy it more if he wasnt as fat.. a subtle difference but a massive one imo..
12 Nov 2012, 12:38 pm
@PissAnt-70:
“In my experience rugby players from school to club level (where I have been involved) are not coached on the game, they are instructed on how to play the game (the way the coach believes or sees fit).”
So true.
I use to say that players are not coached, they on practice.
There is a big difference imo.
12 Nov 2012, 12:38 pm
@mikeybrass-92: Agreed that was your impression.
12 Nov 2012, 12:39 pm
Pissant you making me cry
12 Nov 2012, 12:40 pm
@mikeybrass-89:
he got a lot of boys playing and appreciating good rugby…
12 Nov 2012, 12:40 pm
Until we move on from the mantra that we need to play to our Bok strength,namely agressive,physical rugby,we will always drag behind countries like NZ,Aus etc etc.What they don’t understand is that players right across the rugby world have grown bigger whether through legal or legal methods.Just stand up to the Boks physically and they don’t have a plan B as a result.The biggest mistake SARU made was to have appointed a coach stuck in rugby’s dark ages .
12 Nov 2012, 12:45 pm
Transformation #88 – Similar thing happenend to Maarkgraaff, he also inherited the mighty 95 Boks and did appalingley, lost our first ever home series v the ABs.
Different coach is always a problem, SARU has never maintained continuity in coaches etc.
12 Nov 2012, 12:46 pm
@pissant 86, good post. My 13yo son is going thru a rough patch with his cricket. Bowling great, batting awful. I must stop tryin to “help” him with technical tips – best advice would be don’t worry so much, go out and enjoy yourself!
12 Nov 2012, 12:47 pm
@ufo-79:
Like telling the kicker to kick at poles until he succeeds with 10 kicks without looking at the reason why he is missing and looking at ways to correct that.
@WP-Forever-82:
Don’t leave out PdV.
@nama1-95:
they on practice. = they ONLY practice.
12 Nov 2012, 12:49 pm
@capebull-96: What was dished up in the second half sure as hell wasn’t Bulls rugby. For one thing, the Boks won.
12 Nov 2012, 12:50 pm
@mikeybrass-92: You go a little far by saying the stormers players went into a mode to win the game cause there was only three of them on the field, but have to agree to the sentiment.
I felt like watching a stormers game from earlier this year… they never seemed to put away teams that were there for the taking.
i almost get the feeling we will always grind out a win rather than completely thrashing a team..
this has to do with the mindset talked about.. .the fear of losing raher the desire of winning… also the gameplan from Meyers mouth is that attacking rugby is a risk thus do not get motivated…
It really was like watching the Stormers play the Force or Lions… always going to win but never gonna score a bonus point win… I see the Scotland game going the same..
12 Nov 2012, 12:50 pm
@capebull-96:
agreed, it was.
12 Nov 2012, 12:52 pm
@poppa69-94:
There is a book you must look to get, don’t know if you will be able to get it in NZ but it is a very good book if you are involved in raising or coaching kids.
It’s called Raising Talent – written by a local guy Tim Goodenough (no jokes, that is his surname).
12 Nov 2012, 12:53 pm
@Dawn-97:
Haha, the joys of parenthood.
12 Nov 2012, 12:54 pm
@Provvas-104: I’m saying the distinct impression I got was that the Stormers players – as a trio – took collective leadership of the team and changed the on-field strategy: JdV overall and backs, Duane & Flow (don’t forget him just ’cause he is at Bath) the loose-trio and Eben the tight 5 engine. And they did it because the previous strategy was failing, so the priority became to grind out the win.
Agree with everything else you said.
12 Nov 2012, 12:55 pm
@PissAnt-106:Im in Sydney PA, but will keep an eye out for it… maybe even an ebook?
12 Nov 2012, 12:56 pm
@PissAnt-86: One only has to attend a few games at the school of ones choice during rugga season to witness the extent of the issues we have.
I know, I have a brother-in-law who is chairman of the “Fanatical Performance driven perfection for kids who can barely wipe their own backsides yet” Paarl Gymnasium Suporters Club.
These parents are the NORM rather than the exception, and they are egged on most happily by coaches and various other interested parties.
Very sad.
12 Nov 2012, 12:56 pm
Hoping for the following team v Scotland:
15. Taute
14. JP
13. de Jong
12. JdV
11. Rhule
10. Lambie
9. Pienaar
8. Vermeelen
7. Coetsee (Alberts rested for Eng)
6. Flouw
5. Etsebeth
4. Flip
3. Cilliers (J duP rested for Eng game)
2. Strauss
1. Steenkamp
CJ, Brits, Heinkie, Kruger, Alberts, Hougard, Jantjies, Mvovo
12 Nov 2012, 12:58 pm
@corporal punishment-101:
I personally hate self-help books and similar ****., this is not one, see the book I mentioned above.
But you are already there imo with what you said in your post. As a parent/coach we actually just want our kids to succeed but sometimes we forget what success is ourselves.
My experience in this came through a lot of error, and believe me when I say a lot! Knowing what will improve any young boy or girl’s game is one thing, but it does not make you a good coach. Having them discover this for themselves through your guidance does.
12 Nov 2012, 13:00 pm
@poppa69-109:
If you struggle let me know, I might even get a copy off to you.
12 Nov 2012, 13:00 pm
@PissAnt-112: thats for all of life though PA, not just the sporting arena..
12 Nov 2012, 13:01 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-105: idiots unite?
12 Nov 2012, 13:02 pm
@poppa69-109: Amazon UK has it as an ebook.
12 Nov 2012, 13:04 pm
@blik-111: Will Gurthro be recovered in time?
Otherwise I like the team and the rationale, a lot.
12 Nov 2012, 13:04 pm
@poppa69-114:
Indeed it is. Sport is just another extension of life. Applies in all spheres.
12 Nov 2012, 13:04 pm
@nama1-102:
yeah…
i think half the problem is that many (if not most) coaches start at school level where simply picking the the biggest boys ensures victory through brute strength… they then get tagged as ‘good coaches’ and so move on up the ranks doing what they know best… picking the biggest players… as PA says… they don’t coach boys how to play the game… they teach boys to rely on their size and natural strength without thinking at all let alone strategically…
also at fault is saru who call for coaching CVs and expect the coaches to tell them what they are gonna do… seems – like the kid kicking at poles – that saru’s only criteria for coaches is their win ratio and as long as that happens and as long as no one has to think then everyone’s happy…
imo… when searching for a coach… coach saru should give a brief of what the coach should achieve it over-terms for sa rugby… which should include goals in terms of style, transformation, public perception and support, the ambassadorial role they play for the sport and the country, and then, yes, win ratios etc…
but i also think saru has failed south africa in that they should build a good rugby field in virtually every community around the country… really what does a rugby field cost… pretty much nothing… they could get local businesses to sponsor the relatively small costs involved…
i aslo think that players should get much smaller basic salaries and bonuses based not on wins but on tries… if a team scores a try they should collectively get 25 percent of their bonus and if so on so that they only get 100 percent of their bonus if they score four tries… if more they score four tries the more games they will win… but they’ll be paid for scoring tries… which will also stop the white-line fever we see from so many players who hang onto the ball and butcher tries instead of passing to the player in the better position… butchers a few tries and subsequent bonuses players will be start playing for the team result over their individual glory..
okay that was a bit of a tangent…!!
12 Nov 2012, 13:05 pm
@PissAnt-113: just searched online, should be able to get a copy.. thanks for the heads up
12 Nov 2012, 13:06 pm
Cilliers showed real energy when he came onto the field on Saturday.Hopefully he will not take too much of Meyer’s negative coaching methods on board.
12 Nov 2012, 13:07 pm
@race of tan-100: why do people equate “WORLD CUP winning team” to “WORLD-DOMINATING team”?
the Boks in 2007 entered the world cup ranked FOURTH having never beaten NZ away in a decade, having scraped a tri-nations in ’04 through losers bonus point, having lost to Ireland & France consecutively.
why the delusion then?
12 Nov 2012, 13:08 pm
@PissAnt-106: Tim Goodenough – The Sharks and Proteas “mental coach”
eish
12 Nov 2012, 13:09 pm
what happened Saturday is the Boks went onto the field under strict HM orders to follow his ‘blue’ print strategy to the wire.. it bombed badly and at 12 -3 down in the change room they realized no way in hell were they going to come out of this dead end cul de sac if they continued following coach Heyneke’s ‘blue’ print
So captain and vice captain and stalwart seniors in Louw and Vermeulen rallied around JdV and decided collectively to chuck everything that HM had tried drilling into them overboard and play the game they knew how to in order to win..
So JdV turned down 3 or 4 kickable penalties and pursued a try early in 2nd half which fortunately resulted in a score under the poles.
Thereafter they simply had to follow their instinct to ensure ireland didn’t sneak one back, which they duly did..
Meyer’s ‘blue’ print was failing bad.. players took over and chucked the coaches philosophy overboard and did what they had to in order to save a situation which had they continued with the HM philosophy they would have been dead and buried and thier collective psyche would have been shot to hell.
JdV, Strauss, Louw and Vermeulen with aid of the 2 reserve props turned the game around.. nothing that Heyneke did, the saving grace was as a result of players uniting to fend off a loss that was staring them in the face otherwise.
12 Nov 2012, 13:11 pm
@blik-111: Well here’s to hope….. casue it will not happen… .though I would also like to see such a team given free reign off course…. maybe hougaard at 9 with pienaar rested for england
12 Nov 2012, 13:11 pm
@Transformation-123:
Hehe, indeed. Hey they managed a home super rugby final when he was still there!
12 Nov 2012, 13:15 pm
15. Taute
14. JP
13. de Jong
12. JdV
11. Mapoe
10. Jantjies
9. Hougaard
8. Vermeelen
7. Coetsee
6. Flouw
5. Etsebeth
4. Alberts
3. Cilliers
2. Brits
1. Heinke
CJ, Chili, Steenkamp, Vd Merwe, Botha, Pienaar, Lambie, Rhule
12 Nov 2012, 13:17 pm
@wnbb-115:
12 Nov 2012, 13:17 pm
@skopdiekan-127:
switch centers around
13. JdV
12. de Jong
and can equally switch Mapoe and Rhule around
12 Nov 2012, 13:18 pm
@Transformation-123:
your skills are amazing.
@skopdiekan-124:
honeslty skop…
where’s your evidence for this..?..
12 Nov 2012, 13:19 pm
@skopdiekan-124:
oh is that what happened?
nothing to do with winning collisions then?
lol, can’t believe you actually write thatsortofshite?
As I said yesterday, post it enough times and some kid reading this blog might actually believe it.
so very sad indeed.
12 Nov 2012, 13:20 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-130: out on the field.. or how blind you trying to remain bewildered by Meyers lack of any coaching acumen?
12 Nov 2012, 13:20 pm
Frans Malherbe will replace Beast on tour.
Don’t ask, I have no idea either.
12 Nov 2012, 13:23 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-130:
come now…Fckupadillydontknowfckall wrote it….so it is so!
everyone knows that!
12 Nov 2012, 13:24 pm
@PissAnt-133:
12 Nov 2012, 13:24 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-131: That is exactly what happened…, JdV said ENOUGH of this garbage kick when we don’t know wtf else to do.., and take the game to the Irish every which way with ball in hand and pressure for a try early on in second half.. which he did, by turning down consecutive kickable points and pushed for the try.., the captain made the call and his 2IC’s in tandem, Strauss, Louw, Vermeulen rallied to the cause… the two powder puff props went off.. and the 2 better proponents came on.. and viola within the space of 10 minutes Ireland were nullified because HM’s thicker than thick tactics had been chucked out the equation.
12 Nov 2012, 13:27 pm
@PissAnt-106: Would you recommend this boo to a father who is not involved in coaching?
Raising Talent – Tim Goodenough
12 Nov 2012, 13:28 pm
Meyer should have had the following props on tour
JC Janse Van Rensburg, Heinke Vd Merwe, Marcel Vd Merwe
Pat Cilliers, Frans Malherbe, Jannie Dup
12 Nov 2012, 13:30 pm
@blik-137:
Absolutely. Any child’s first ever coach in anything in life are his parents.
12 Nov 2012, 13:33 pm
@ufo-119:
Wrt facilities in your small towns.
Problem starts when it comes to the maintenance of these rugby fields. Municipalities are not willing to pay for the upkeep of the field. In some small towns in my part of the world for example, the provincial Dept of Sport developed rugby fields. Grass, sprinklers the whole works. They linked it with the school. Now it costs the school close to R20k per month to pay for water, security etc. They simply can’t afford it and the condition of the field deteriorates especially in the summer when no rugby is played.
Even if SARU help with the developing of rugby fields, there should also be some buy in from the local government to accept responsibility for the upkeep of the fields, I think.
12 Nov 2012, 13:34 pm
@skopdiekan-132:
ok, so its all an ‘observational assumption’ on your part then, and only that..?..
unless of course you have received some additional 2nd or 3rd hand information from a wholly reliable and independent source which verifies your initial observational assumptions..?..
i.e. someone who was in the changeroom at the time, or perhaps close to to it and overheard this or, dare i say, someone who was on the field, be it a player or any of the support staff..?..
i want ot give you the benefit of the doubt but for me to do that i really need to test the credibilty of your information as such, and not so much you.
i hope you understand.
@Brigadier Van Zyl-134:
the funny thing is when this team under meyer starts to win, and win regularly… i can only wonder what the explanations therefore will be.
i can of course guess a few.
12 Nov 2012, 13:39 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-141: Well Bakkies, if things turnaround, it will be thanks to the players, not the coach.
When things go badly, the coach must be nailed.
When things go well, he must also be nailed – as success has zero to do with him, but everything to do with the players.
This is the way it worked when P de Villiers was coach? I guess it’s only fair things are done the same with Meyer in charge?
12 Nov 2012, 13:41 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-141: I bet if you had to ask JdV and Louw in the quiet solitude of corridors without ears they would tell you what I just did..
Do you really think Meyer turned this thing around when he sent them on the field in first half they were following his orders.. so what changed so abruptly second half?
The players decided enough was enough and they were going to play the game they knew how, led by JdV and his close confidants they chucked everything Meyer had tried drilling into their deer in the headlight heads overboard .. and decided to chuck the Meyer induced blindfolds off and play the game with some heart and direct approach, stopped kicking and carried the ball into the end zone and scored from there. Louw, Vermeulen, Strauss, Coetsee and the 2 reserve props under JdV’s leadership did the reverse switch around.
12 Nov 2012, 13:44 pm
@PissAnt-139: Are you in SA? Anyone know where I can get a copy in the UK? (hard copy, not eBook)
Raising Talent – Tim Goodenough
12 Nov 2012, 13:46 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-142:
by all means go ahead, blame him.
of his qualities and traits i think i can say with confidence that heyneke meyer is a self-effacing, selfless man who would sacrifice himself for his team and country and no matter how succesful they may become will never seek recognition for that success or claim it as his own.
he will give it to the players, because rightly… that is where it belongs..
12 Nov 2012, 13:47 pm
@nama1-140:
development
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-141:
They are suppose to win regularly…and CONVINCINGLY. They’re the Boks after all.
It will only happen once he starts to select the right players and tweak his game plan a bit. The Meyer naysayers will then still be able to say: See, we told you.
12 Nov 2012, 13:48 pm
@blik-144:
kalhari.net is usually a good place to start for books (hard or soft), are often cheaper than amazon and of course ship in the same way that amazon does.
12 Nov 2012, 13:49 pm
@PissAnt-133: It makes sense if Gurthro is recovering from injury (there is Heinke and CJ), and Jannie may turn out to be a walking injury problem.
12 Nov 2012, 13:49 pm
@skopdiekan-143:
like I said…post it enough times and someone is bound to believe you.
go you good thing, keep at it, there is bound to be someone out there that believes you are not a starkranting looney.
12 Nov 2012, 13:51 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-145: Nou praat jy groot k # k
Who took credit for Habana’s form, Etsebeth’s lineout work, Lambie’s improvement in the kicking dept etc? Meyer did.
Who took credit for the Boks turnaround on Saturday? Meyer did, smiling as he talked of a hairdryer speech….
Who blamed the players after the Argie draw? Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, you know who?
Meyer’s ego NEEDS recognition, (and it’s a hungry beast that ego….needs to be fed 6 times a day it seems
12 Nov 2012, 13:51 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-149:
hell, keep emailing jdv enough times and eventually he is bound to concede that, that is exactly what happened. for no other reason other than hoping you would now just Go Away!
getit?
12 Nov 2012, 13:51 pm
@skopdiekan-143: What you posted is almost a mirror of what I said earlier. The difference in strategies between the two halves and the similarity between the second half and the way the Stormers played this season is too much of a coincidence.
12 Nov 2012, 13:52 pm
Meyer should have had JC Janse Van Rensburg as his premier Loose head on tour, with Heinke as back up
Tight head Cilliers is better than JdP, so he needs CJ and JdP and perhaps Malherbe as back up
But he should have started with
1. Steenkamp, Heinke, Janse van Rensburg
3. Cilliers, CJ, JdP
12 Nov 2012, 13:53 pm
Malherbe is a tighthead right? Replacing a loosehood right?
Strange…
HM has also stated that he will not be making wholesale changes to the run on side this weekend, so don’t bother posting your teams.
Much of a muchness…
Well we saw what AB’s did to Scotland – anyone’s thoughts on the score on Saterday…
12 Nov 2012, 13:54 pm
@blik-144:
Yes in SA.
If you are on Twitter, get hold of Tim directly. Very cool guy @TimGoodenoughZA
@mikeybrass-148:
Yes that came through later. Piss-poor communication by SA Rugby. Frans was not called up to replace Beast, Frans was called up as injury cover to Jannie at tighthead.
12 Nov 2012, 13:54 pm
… but what HM says and does baffles most… Not the most honest oke around now is he?
I wait in anticipation…
12 Nov 2012, 13:55 pm
This is not the time to have fun Keo. This is a new coaching staff and a new group of players who’ve enjoyed mixed results since they’ve come together. They need to put the hard yards in first before they start thinking about fun. That will come with time once they’ve developed the necessary attributes and earned the right to do so. Afraid to say, at this stage they need to focus on winning only and building themselves as a collective. No shortcuts.
12 Nov 2012, 13:56 pm
@Yetirat-157:
…they were not having fun on Saturday mate…
There is something seriously wrong with the team… Doesn’t look like a happy side at all…
12 Nov 2012, 13:58 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-149: Poor Meyer apologist don’t wanna see the reality, if it were PdV for any reason in the hot box then of course it was the players who did the mutiny and played the game they knew how in order to win..
In this case exactly the identical solution.. Coach was f’ng it up bad, so players decided to do it their way and pull the sunken game strategy out the fire.. which they duly did.. which HM can thank the good Lord above they didn’t listen to him and rescued the game the way only they knew how.. under JdV and his senior players on the field they switched plan and chucked all Meyers hogwash out the window and rescued the game from a dead loss position, through their own sheer will of purpose and non of HM’s dead ended strategically defunct ideas.
12 Nov 2012, 13:58 pm
@Yetirat-157:
hear,hear
well said
12 Nov 2012, 14:00 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-147: Thanks, will look
12 Nov 2012, 14:00 pm
@PissAnt-155: Thanks
12 Nov 2012, 14:01 pm
@Gumboots-154: No
I enjoy reading people’s teams….
Skop’s ‘dream’ team posts are a highlight of the rugby week. Love some of his selections (serious)
12 Nov 2012, 14:01 pm
Mikeybrass and Skop. Please refer to post 44.
12 Nov 2012, 14:02 pm
@skopdiekan-159:
excuse me but if you can’t acknowlege the difference in players twakkie was given to start off with compared to those meyer has to start off with you then there is nothing further to discuss.
the real truth is that when the boks won in dunedin 2008 they went back to doing what they do well. Outside of that it was twakkies illconcieved expansive philosophy at all costs that saw us lose to ozzie at home for the first time in eons and get nilled by nz at home.
12 Nov 2012, 14:02 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-163: Howzit going in your neck of the woods? TV must have juuuuuust survived on Saturday?
12 Nov 2012, 14:04 pm
@skopdiekan-143:
well skop, you have an opinion, fair enough, but lets be realistic in saying that, short of jdv or f louw telling us this as fact, we can only accept it as an observational assumption on your part.
whether it is in fact true is debatable as is the fact that anyone else could offer their own versions of their own observational assumptions.
personally, i dont think any of us gain by bandying about such assumptions in the absence of some verifiable source. it’s just too controversial.
12 Nov 2012, 14:04 pm
@Gumboots-154: If we click like we did on Saturday’s 40 – 80 min mark the Scots are in for a 15 point snotklap.
12 Nov 2012, 14:05 pm
@skopdiekan-159: Do you actually believe the tos you are posting Skop? I cannot for the life of me think how……..aag dont bother
12 Nov 2012, 14:06 pm
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE-166: All good thanks, ok not really ‘good’, but ok
Shhheeeeeez dude. Very little anywhere within 30 metres of me ‘barely survived’ the nuclear tantrums I was throwing in 50 second cycles.
And then the cricket went for a ball of sh yte as well, so things are not looking good for ‘man and dog’ in my home.
12 Nov 2012, 14:06 pm
@nama1-146:
of course, what was i thinking… duuhhh…
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-150:
nonsense
you’re just reading into the things he says whatever it is you want to believe.
12 Nov 2012, 14:08 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-170: Another game like this on Saturday dan kak die buurman ook….hehehe.
12 Nov 2012, 14:08 pm
@Gumboots-158: It will come with time naturally once they find a rhythm and they become more comfortable with each other. Think of a new team in an office environment. First focus is always on getting the job done, once they become comfortable with one another and comfortable with each other’s roles and their own roles, they will reach a level where fun is achieved naturally.
12 Nov 2012, 14:11 pm
@skopdiekan-159:
You’re saying the senior players like JdV and Pienaar hijacked the team from Meyer, Skop? They’re doing the coaching and determining the game plan now while Meyer entertain us with his utterances during interviews?
12 Nov 2012, 14:12 pm
@Yetirat-173: One of his biggest issues up until now is settling the right combinations. 4 and 5 worked on saturday. 12 and 13……not convinced.
12 Nov 2012, 14:13 pm
@nama1-174: Was that not the same thing said about Divvy….thinking up kak to talk to the press while Vic and Smitty are busy coaching the team….
12 Nov 2012, 14:13 pm
@Yetirat-173:
Tell that to your boss!
So after about 12 games we can still continue to make excuses that the team has not been together long enough!!!
What is long enough? Two years, four years???
I’m a supporter, similar to a consumer. If the consumer is not happy then they start demanding. Well I’m demanding something to cheer about. I understand where you come from as we in South Africa have become used to mediocre… When we start falling into that mentality we will continue to make excuses. If that is the case then we shouldn’t actually worry about being the best and accept that 3rd, 4th is an acceptable ranking for us…
12 Nov 2012, 14:14 pm
I think the gist of the team talk at half time on Saturday went something like this
Meyer came down from the coaches box all haggered and forlorn swaying from side to side like in a drunken stupor staring his young Springbok coaching career going up in smoke before his eyes.
So he said to the players and to JdV in particular
Guys I got no idea what you got to do to win this thing but JdV and some of you guys have been in this position before.. so just do what you have to do to win this game, forget everything I ever told you and revert to your natural rugby playing instinct and save this goddamn sword of Damocles from over my head otherwise I’m out the back door. Do this thing for the Boks and for your careers and for the people back home who have faith in you.. I got nothing more to add.. just go out there and do whatever you have to do in order to win..
And low and behold, that is what happened, they chucked all the straight jacket garbage out the window and played rugby the way they knew how.. and brought home the win, under JdV, Louw, Vermeulen, Strauss, Coetsee, Pienaar and the 2 reserve props. they saved the day and saved HM’s arse in the process.
12 Nov 2012, 14:14 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-171: Bakkies, you deserve a medal of honor for your unwavering support. If I was a thieving, skelm and utterly kak politician,I would want YOU in my corner or running my campaign
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE-172: Die buurman is erger as wat ek is. Saterdag aand het ek gehoor hoe hy halftyd na sy ‘vuurtjie’ buite gaan omsien het terywl hy ‘n moerse Oscar award winning tantrum gegooi het buite. Die tale…….
12 Nov 2012, 14:15 pm
@nama1-174:
i mean seriously..?..
some of these bloggers would s.hit rugby balls in a court of law
12 Nov 2012, 14:16 pm
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE-168:
Well I think Scotland are about 9th or 10th on the world rankings and we are 2nd or 3rd…
Don’t you think we should be almost guarenteed of a win? I’m not… We could actually lose…
12 Nov 2012, 14:16 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-170:
Walkin’ like a zombie today ’cause of the cricket. Like I just arrived from a long flight from the States.
Adelaide will take spin so Tahir better be hitting his straps.
12 Nov 2012, 14:17 pm
My fok Siener van Rensburg is hier!!!!!!
12 Nov 2012, 14:20 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-179: Solank hy net nie die partytjie woord gestoot het nie.
@Gumboots-181: Scary thought but very true. We should sit back and enjoy, what should be an easy win. But the first 40min the played Scots vs our first 40 min…….not a pleasant thought.
12 Nov 2012, 14:20 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-179:
‘your honour, my client was never actually coaching them when they were losing, only when they were winning..’
12 Nov 2012, 14:21 pm
Meeting. Gotta run.
Cheers all
12 Nov 2012, 14:22 pm
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE-184:
A very worrying thought mate… Never did I ever think the Scots would win on Saturday, even after AB’s lost a man…
Man but in our game I was k akking myself throughout the game and losing was a huge posibility.
Do you see what I’m trying to get at?
12 Nov 2012, 14:25 pm
mallet had a different take on why the boks came right in the second half.
they stopped giving away so many penalties.
and i agree with him.
none of this wp senior players going back to wp style rugby nonsense.
12 Nov 2012, 14:28 pm
@charo-188: Also, they started playing the game at pace.
In a kick-chase game, you don’t do things at optimum speed. You are lethargic on both attack and defense.
In a phase-oriented game, you do things at a faster pace.
12 Nov 2012, 14:29 pm
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE-176:
@skopdiekan-178:
“So he said to the players and to JdV in particular
Guys I got no idea what you got to do to win this thing but JdV and some of you guys have been in this position before.. so just do what you have to do to win this game, forget everything I ever told you and revert to your natural rugby playing instinct and save this goddamn sword of Damocles from over my head otherwise I’m out the back door. Do this thing for the Boks and for your careers and for the people back home who have faith in you.. I got nothing more to add.. just go out there and do whatever you have to do in order to win..”
Skop, you’re going to give these guys heart attacks. Brilliant half time speech btw.
12 Nov 2012, 14:32 pm
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE-164: I did and was immediately sorry I wasted the time doing so.
12 Nov 2012, 14:32 pm
Senior players indeed.
Talking of senior players…
How good was Barney’s commentary?
Poor Grantie must have watched the game with the sound off.
12 Nov 2012, 14:33 pm
@charo-188: They stopped giving away penalties ’cause they changed how they played. Simple, really.
12 Nov 2012, 14:33 pm
Bakkies and Tacitus sound like the former Zimbabwean Information Minister, Jonathan Moyo.
No matter what k@k the Mugabe administration did, listing to that guy speak, you’d swear that the media reports were all lies and all was well in Zim…
12 Nov 2012, 14:34 pm
@nama1-190:
You sound gutted that the Bokke came right on Saturday.
Shampies.
12 Nov 2012, 14:41 pm
@gunther-195:
Was gutted by the inept performance of our so called best players.
But then again, I was not really surprise. Just pissed (excuse the pun) at the performance.
12 Nov 2012, 14:42 pm
Nama@140
(on mobile now)
yeah… which is why I said they should get local companies to sponsor them…
also didnt say small towns… said (and meant) communities … right across the country… not just towns…
go to Wales and virtually every village or group of houses has several rugby fields… seems they have more fields than churches or shops…!!!
point is the rugby field should become the de facto meeting place for every community and rugby should become a part of each community…
but seems there is no real will to achieve this… people see obstacles instead of possibilities..,
Anyway out for now mobile too slow
12 Nov 2012, 14:45 pm
I’m still waiting for the Lambie hallelujah choir boys to tell us of the big difference he made on Saturday.
Not that I’m blaming him for anything. I said yesterday that he was playing under orders.
12 Nov 2012, 14:48 pm
So, I agree with the part that we must peak for WC 2015 and build now (and that results 2012 \ 2013 are not that imporant). Keeping this in mind what players do we include into the squad now already?
For the future -9. ? (sorry, Pienaar not the answer and Hougie still needs to step up) 10. Goosen (Lambie back-up) 11. Rhule 12. Frans 13. Paul Jordaan 14. ? 15. I still reckon JPP wold make a bomb of a fullback. Great defense, good under the high ball and great counter attacker. He is 26 now and will be in the mix for 2015.
I am not worried about the forwards with Coenie, Bismarck, Eben etc. Pleanty of young players coming through.
12 Nov 2012, 14:49 pm
@ufo-197:
Got you.
Yes, it seems the will is not there.
12 Nov 2012, 14:49 pm
@gunther-195:
“came right” oh dear
12 Nov 2012, 14:50 pm
@nama1-190:
funny thing is, i can see skop giving a half time speech like that if he was ever a coach
12 Nov 2012, 14:53 pm
@gunther-195:
so many of them opened up their cans of ‘i told you so’s’ only to see it go wasted
12 Nov 2012, 14:53 pm
SARU warns over email scam
2012-11-12 11:21
SARU logo (File)
Related Links
Lambie: Give me another shot
Beast could face Scotland
Flo lights Bok fire again
Cape Town – The South African Rugby Union (SARU) is alerting people to an email version of a Rugby World Cup scam aimed at Springbok supporters.
In the latest version of what was once a cellphone-based attempt at fraud, individuals receive emails telling them they have won £1m in cash in a Rugby World Cup promotion, purported to be run by SARU.
Typically, the message reads: “We wish to notify you that your email address was automatically selected during the RUGBY 2011 world cup finals in New-Zealand and has won you GBP1 000.000.00 Cash (One Million Great Britain Pounds) Payable through our Paying Bank.”
A SARU spokesperson said: “We can categorically confirm that no competition has ever existed of this nature and that the email should be ignored.” (news24)
Beware guys…and girl!!!
12 Nov 2012, 14:56 pm
@Marty-199:
“So, I agree with the part that we must peak for WC 2015 and build now (and that results 2012 \ 2013 are not that imporant). Keeping this in mind what players do we include into the squad now already?”
Really??
Out of the 24 or so tests in 2012 / 2013, you won’t mind if we lose 15 (or even more), as long as we are building for the RWC in 2015?
You know the saying: Losing becomes a habit.
How will you know HOW to win the RWC if all you did in the years leading up to it, is lose?
12 Nov 2012, 14:57 pm
Hope Gurthro is ready, or play the Rock at prop, he is slow enough.
12 Nov 2012, 14:58 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-203:
Nama and Co had been saving up special 12 Year Old bottles of I told you so.
They’ll be hoping to open them in the next couple of weeks.
12 Nov 2012, 14:59 pm
@NZINCHINA-201: Oopsie!
12 Nov 2012, 14:59 pm
@NZINCHINA-201:
Jip.
We are satisfied with anything this team dish up as long as they win. No matter how ugly or unconvincing.
Strange how people changed their minds about what a “right” performance is by the Boks now that HM is coach.
12 Nov 2012, 15:00 pm
@nama1-209:
I like it when the Boks win.
I think our buddy in china is trying to be funny.
12 Nov 2012, 15:02 pm
@nama1-204:
You would have to be pretty stupid and gullible to fall for that.
12 Nov 2012, 15:03 pm
@nama1-205: No, losing does become a habit and I am not saying that we need to disregard the results altogether. But SA rugby should learn from Jake White and start building around a team that will able to win WC 2015. So, for example, keep Jean de Villiers and Habana, etc. to groom certain players that will be introduced slowly. Hence, they should be introduced to the SQUAD way before 2015. Like Paul Jordaan; he should be the understudy of someone like de Jongh. Let them train together and see how these type of players develop.
I do think that holding back on introducing youngsters because of their age is overestimated – when did the likes of Wilkinson and co. shine on the world stage.
12 Nov 2012, 15:04 pm
@WP-Forever-211:
There’s always one.
All sorts of idiots have access to a computer.
Just ask capo.
12 Nov 2012, 15:04 pm
@NZINCHINA-201:
Your boys let through, what, three tries yesterday?
Two of them by a ********, at that…
12 Nov 2012, 15:04 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-203: @gunther-207:
Much more likely than that can of WHOOPASS that your Bulls were suppose to dish out that one year.
12 Nov 2012, 15:05 pm
@gunther-213:
I think it’s often a case of common sense and greed competing at a primal level in the brain.
In some lower-function individuals greed is stronger than common sense.
Just look at our Cabinet.
12 Nov 2012, 15:12 pm
@nama1-215:
Tac’s whoopass that he keeps with his pre 1994 Koo baked beans?
12 Nov 2012, 15:14 pm
@WP-Forever-211:
Jip.
Can’t believe people still fall for that.
@Marty-212:
Why can’t we do that and still keep on winning. The All Blacks do.
12 Nov 2012, 15:16 pm
@nama1-215: Don’t be so harsh on them Nama.To use Gunther’s phrase: They will eventually came right…whether it’s five or ten years down the line.
12 Nov 2012, 15:17 pm
@WP-Forever-216:
Indeed the force is strong in those ones.
12 Nov 2012, 15:18 pm
@nama1-205:
What you getting your knickers in a knot over…
Heyneke Meyer is in a massive re-building phase with this Bok crop and he’s lost 3 from 10… but for a few miss-kicks they’d be on a 70% win ratio playing disjointed rugby…
Tut tut…
12 Nov 2012, 15:19 pm
@WP-Forever-214:
Prove that the AB defense can be unlocked. Why were we not able to do it?
12 Nov 2012, 15:19 pm
Eish, but the “journalists” at Channel24 can be obtuse at times:
http://www.channel24.co.za/Gossip/News/Steve-Hofmeyrs-Wiki-page-hacked-20121112
Sure, it’s really hard to “hack” into somebody’s Wikipedia entry…
12 Nov 2012, 15:19 pm
HM’s poepstring is wound far too tight.he needs to take a chill pill,granted after he went Mitchell on the boks at halftime they upped their game but that kinda coaching does not usually work thru the long run.He should take a leaf out of Gary Kirsten’s book and learn to relax a little.Too much pressure,and it’s gonna blow!
12 Nov 2012, 15:19 pm
@gunther-217:
That’s the one.
12 Nov 2012, 15:20 pm
@wnbb-219:
Indeed.
Every dog has its day.
12 Nov 2012, 15:23 pm
@nama1-225:
Talking about pitches earlier weren’t John Allan’s rugby legends involved in building specially designed astro turf pitches for rugby with PPC.
They were supposed to be low maintenance.
12 Nov 2012, 15:27 pm
@nama1-198: you just want to have a go at SuperPat
he was playing behind a disjointed pack in 1st half, 2nd half ruan decided to dictate play from 9 – FdP style
12 Nov 2012, 15:28 pm
@bryce_in_oz-221: If it was not for Steyn’s charge down against the Argies we would have added another test to the losing column.Right?
12 Nov 2012, 15:30 pm
@bryce_in_oz-221:
“knickers in a knot over…”
Oh dear!!!. The man said something about results not being important. I quote:”So, I agree with the part that we must peak for WC 2015 and build now (and that results 2012 \ 2013 are not that imporant).”
I asked him about it…he answered.
What “knickers in a knot” are you talking about?
The kicks were missed. The Boks have a 50% win record currently. That’s what the records will indicate. That’s the stats that count…..not what could’ve been.
12 Nov 2012, 15:37 pm
@gunther-227:
I think I’ve read somewhere that they opened one in the Eastern Cape somewhere not so long ago.
I though about astro turfs as well as an alternative in arid areas like ours but your “traditional” rugby players will probably be very hesitant to play on it.
Saffa handed an astro turf soccer pitch over in Springbok as part of the 2010 SWC legacy program earlier this year. Maybe SARU can look into that.
12 Nov 2012, 15:39 pm
@nama1-231:
The traditional ones might not like it but in the poorer areas where they are less traditional it might be just the thing.
12 Nov 2012, 15:39 pm
@WP-Forever-214:
The Scots are talking up a big game, they reckon you’re there for the taking they don’t fear you anymore, who would have thought….
12 Nov 2012, 15:42 pm
@Transformation-228:
(Hope he returns to this site)
You know I like Pat. Maybe just not as much as Puma.
Was actually trying to highlight the fact that a change at FH made zero difference because the game plan remained the same…until JdV and Pienaar took things into their own hands after half time.
12 Nov 2012, 15:47 pm
@gunther-232:
Agree.
12 Nov 2012, 15:48 pm
@Gumboots-177: Bud, we won. That was the goal and we achieved it. What do you want to do? Chuck out the coaching staff and start all over again? And then when they win and don’t meet your standards do it all over again?
12 Nov 2012, 15:53 pm
@nama1-235: astro is good for football ,but I don’t think it would work for rugby unless you are protected like NFL players who sometimes also play on astro.
12 Nov 2012, 15:58 pm
@wnbb-237:
As long as it’s not sand-based astroturf…
12 Nov 2012, 16:15 pm
@wnbb-237:
I think Astro is the standard in the NFL with only a couple of exceptions. You’re right about needing protective clothing though, it’s a must.
12 Nov 2012, 16:30 pm
@David-239: Not absolutely true.18 of 32 NFL teams play on grass.
12 Nov 2012, 16:40 pm
@Transformation-228:
12 Nov 2012, 16:46 pm
They use a different type of artificial pitch for rugby.
The “grass” is longer and the base is different.
12 Nov 2012, 16:51 pm
@gunther-242:
must still give you some serious carpet burns though.
12 Nov 2012, 17:25 pm
@mshiniwami-64: Pienaar was not bad at the weekend?
12 Nov 2012, 17:57 pm
Losers “enjoy” losing. They’re pro players, not sightseers.
12 Nov 2012, 18:05 pm
@wnbb-229:
errm, but I can also say the same thing withregards to A.smiths try for the kiwis against us in dunedin or for that prop scoring out on the corner for the ozzies against us.
12 Nov 2012, 18:06 pm
@NZINCHINA-233:
yes, maybe about time they get a reminder then….
12 Nov 2012, 19:04 pm
@Big Hit-244:
Pienaar is the one of the main reasons our backline doesn’t fire… Even our forwards look average when he’s at scrumhalf.
Meyer wants our scrumhalf to be the game controller which means we end up getting slow ball from the rucks because Pienaar is taking his sweet time to make decisions…. We should rather let our flyhalf be our game controller and get a scrummie who focuses on recycling the ball quiicker. Then we will be able to run at an unset defensive line and will have more players running in space.
At the moment, our momentum is being killed by slow ball.
The All Blacks have the right idea… They have selected Aaron Smith who has been brilliant for them. Quick, nippy, irritating and sniped when there’s a gap… He doesn’t control the game like Pienaar tries to do… That’s Carter’s job. We would improve if we changed our mindset and let our flyhalf control the game.
12 Nov 2012, 19:44 pm
@Daddy-248: The SA forwards look average because they ARE average, most of the good ones are out injured while others like Alberts are out of form. The ball is coming back slowly because the forwards aren’t making the requisite headway in the carry. Pienaar isn’t slowing it down, he just isn’t speeding it up.
If you pick a 9 like Heini Adams alongside Lambie you likely would see more ball going wide but the SA centres are so very one-dimensional I’m not certain they would reap dividends.
12 Nov 2012, 20:02 pm
Dusky.
I know you’re out there somewhere. Check this out.
‘Hairdryer’ treatment works for Heyneke
November 11 2012 at 01:21pm
By SAPA
The Springboks came from12-3 down at half-time to beat Ireland 16-12 at Lansdowne Road on Saturday.
Dublin – Coach Heyneke Meyer admitted he delivered a few choice words at half time to turn South Africa’s ‘unacceptable’ performance into victory in Dublin on Saturday night.
The Boks were fortunate not to be trailing by more than 12-3 at half time in their opening November Test match, with discipline a major issue and Ireland’s Jonathan Sexton equally willing to punish any indiscretion.
A fourth defeat in five trips to Dublin looked on the cards, but following coach Meyer’s intervention the visitors turned the game on its head and scored an unanswered 13 points to secure a deserved win.
“I can’t tell you my message at half time,” Meyer said, half smiling, after resorting to his version of the ‘hairdryer’ approach of Manchester United coach Alex Ferguson.
12 Nov 2012, 20:05 pm
@Big Hit-249: I didn’t think Alberts was too bad on the weekend Biggles?
12 Nov 2012, 20:10 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-71: @Brigadier Van Zyl-71:
Floral, his so called concern for lack of x factor players, he certainly hasn’t done much to remedy it. He has them available yet he bungles it time and time again.and he is king of double speak, he speaks of proud record for Boks then he makes excuses regarding injuries,experience etc yet all teams have this problem
Now he has been lending his opinion to central contracting dynamic etc all which previous coaching were almost forbidden to mention and journalists would mock them if the did.how pathetic, we heard all this methodical, analytical talk about his cerebral approach to the game yet he is nothing but a bumbling fool with his Wilkie talkie who misguided conviction and little to no creativity to gameplan or selection.
Reds still made playoffs this year and my example was on 1st year coach McKenzie last year of Reds winning superrugby which is more in line with Meyer first year Bok year.not reds this year which is mckenzie’s second year where they still made playoffs.Shows how much you’re reaching,read carefully and recognize context.
So again,spin spin spin.still smell like faeces
12 Nov 2012, 22:02 pm
@WP-Forever-214:
Yeah that is amazing.
Scottish winger scores 2 against the ABs in one match…the Boks scored 2 tries as well against the ABs in the RC……. just took them two games to do it.
13 Nov 2012, 00:45 am
@Big Hit-249: the SA forwards are decent. Many are in the top 2 or 3 in the world in their positions. Pienaar has had the luxury of a dominant SA scrum, dominant SA lineout and recently (with the addition of Flo) some great work at the breakdown. Before Flo, Bissie fulfilled that role.
Even with that armchair ride, we have lost more than half the games we have played when Pienaar has been our starting scrumhalf.
Let Lambie control the game and get a scrummie who recycles quicker and snipes every now and again.
The 2nd test against England we looked unstoppable in the first half (with Hougaard at 9), and we looked appalling in the 2nd half (with Pienaar at 9).
13 Nov 2012, 02:19 am
@Daddy-254: we are at cross-purposes, I was saying the current Bok pack is average, that is, the Bok pack which played at the weekend.
Looking at the matches in which Pienaar has started 9 for SA, most of them have been behind second string or weakened Bok packs.
He won man of the match last weekend, let’s see how he fares against Scotland.
@Yetirat-251: he was not bad, but Alberts at his best is a force of nature, imo he has been overplayed in 2012 and is not at his best.
13 Nov 2012, 02:41 am
@Big Hit-255: Actually Mike McCarthy of Ireland won man of the match.
13 Nov 2012, 03:18 am
@Daddy-256: The Beeb announced Pienaar as man of the match post-match, but you’re right I think the Irish TV station gave it to McCarthy. Either way, assessments of his performance have been pretty positive.
13 Nov 2012, 03:30 am
@Big Hit-257: I’ll finish with this…
We once played the ABs with (Ithink) Pierre Spies at 8th man, Juan Smith at blindise and Schalk at openside… Each of them played well individually and got high player ratings. Made many tackles, carried well and did good work in the lineout…. But we didnt compete at the breadown and ended up losing the game…. Although Schalk played well individually, perhaps a different type of opensider would have made the team play better as a unit.
Such is my assessment of Pienaar,
Just food for thought.
Anyway, Im outta here. Nice chatting.
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