Boks striving hard for cutting edge
14 Nov 2012
RYAN VREDE, in Edinburgh, reports Springbok forwards coach and technical analyst Johann van Graan says the evolution of their attacking game will take time and is dependent on a range of factors.
The Springboks’ attacking method has been widely lamented as being overly pragmatic and bordering on conservative. Their focus on gaining territory through tactical kicking has, however, reaped considerable reward. Their time spent in the opposition’s 22m compares favourably with the All Blacks, the difference being how clinical the world champions have been once there.
On Monday Heyneke Meyer lamented the ‘unacceptable’ return of tries considering their opportunities in what he described as the ‘goal zone’. ‘The top teams in the world get points when they get in there,’ he said. ‘It may be a coaching or inexperience thing, but it has to improve. We get in the right areas and we get clean ball, but we don’t convert.’
I’ve maintained that the the focus of the criticism of the Springboks has been wrong. How they get into the opposition’s 22m has been targeted, but what they do with possession while there is the real problem.
It would be remiss not to note the affect injuries, (particularly among the back division) have had on the team’s attacking potency. There has never been a settled combination, while three different flyhalves have started, with Elton Jantjies coming on as an early replacement at Soccer City.
However, how they resolve this deficiency should be a matter of great concern. They’ve desperately lacked imagination, flair, unpredictability and precision when shifting the ball wide. Van Graan, who is also involved in the attacking play, said they had a vision of a preferable outcome, but stressed that there are prerequisites for them to get there.
‘You don’t get the end result immediately, its a process. As soon as you get into a winning habit, combinations settle and you gain experience as a team, you can start evolving,’ he said. ‘There have been some massive moments in our game development, with Bryan Habana’s try in Soweto being a prime example of where we want to go with our game. But game development is about tweaking the small things and surprising the opposition like that.’
The Springboks have relied heavily on their rolling maul as an attacking weapon. However, denied the territory they covet against Ireland in the first half on Saturday, they looked impotent and rudderless. They recovered well and were able to hurt Ireland with their rolling maul. But Van Graan warned that this facet of play will come under stern examination against Scotland at Murrayfield once more.
‘It is a big part of the our game. Our base is so vital and the tight five work hard to keep that base up. Once it is then they can’t sack you. From there it’s technique and synergy. It’s when we use it and where you use it,’ he said.
‘You also have to show respect to the opposition, most of the northern hemisphere teams stop the maul quite well by blocking off your middle and back options, and give you the front ball. They hit and sack you there. So you have to be clever and perhaps take a risk.’
He also noted the Scots’ focus on stifling the recycle at the breakdown. They succeeded in patches early in the game in this regard against the All Blacks, before the tourists stepped up their tackle fight and consistently got over the gainline to deny them a crack at the contest.
Van Graan continued, extolling their hosts’ other strengths.
‘They’ve shown that once they get into the 22m, it doesn’t matter how good the defence is, they can keep the ball. They did that quite well against the All Blacks. They’ve also got some big runners in the backline and their mauling and lineout is one of their big strengths. We’ll have to be clever in countering that,’ he noted.
167 Comments
13 Nov 2012, 13:15 pm
Champions inside the 22……dragon
13 Nov 2012, 13:16 pm
And the coaching team is striving hard to pass a bowel movement so deep out of depth
13 Nov 2012, 13:34 pm
This Blue Bull coach,is the forward coach as well as the attacking coach??My liewe donner!!!
13 Nov 2012, 13:38 pm
Three in one Johann van Graan.
Forwards coach
Technical analyst
Attacking coach
13 Nov 2012, 13:50 pm
RYAN VREDE, in Edinburgh.
Wow.
Suck it all in Ryan. You only live once.
13 Nov 2012, 13:55 pm
Van Graan must shurrup.
13 Nov 2012, 13:57 pm
@nama1-4:
And he can coach NFL if goes states side !!!!!!!
13 Nov 2012, 13:59 pm
It’s a pity the Boks are currently stuck with the Van Graan nepotism joker. He needs to shut up and stop adding insult to injury.
13 Nov 2012, 14:00 pm
@cane-5: last week he started every post with ‘Dublin’ …. and after a few pints,in his final post, he reported that the Boks were brilliant.The black stuff can fark with your mind after a while.
13 Nov 2012, 14:00 pm
I can see him giving the Al Pachino “inches” speach (Any Given Sunday)all he needs is a headset and a coke habit
13 Nov 2012, 14:01 pm
As long as they prefer size over speed and skill ,no matter what they try and implement, they will fail.
While Flouw has been a revelation at test level this season ,the other loosies have been miserably average at best . Alberts is starting to have less and less impact on the field while Vermulen inst quite having the impact I had hoped for bar one or two steals. I like what the Sharks did with Coetzee ,Daniel and Kankowski .
Without Bismarck our forward pack is looking lame. I cannot say what Juandre Kruger actually adds to the side ,he is no better than Etzebeth in the line-outs and doesn’t do much around the field.
IMO this would be a potent forward pack;
1.Beast
2.Struass
3.Jannie
4.Flip
5.Etzebeth
6.Louw
7.Coetzee
8.Kankowski
13 Nov 2012, 14:01 pm
@Rockn Rolla-7: Just keep him away from my Saints.
13 Nov 2012, 14:02 pm
And I know Beast and Kanko are out…
13 Nov 2012, 14:03 pm
Hahaha shame they should rather not say anything to the media. It all points to the “staff”.
Nag ou Groote
13 Nov 2012, 14:07 pm
The attack has been bad, there is no doubting that, but to say Mayer is lamenting the finishing is a tad dramatic don’t you think? Lament usually describes mourning the death of a loved one. I would say Mayer is bleak about the way his forwards keep stuffing about in the backline.
13 Nov 2012, 14:09 pm
Forwards ‘Spiesing’ about in the backline.
13 Nov 2012, 14:09 pm
@wnbb-12:
Saints are cool
Im a Oackland Raiders man myself – just saw Pittsburgs getting their a$$e$ handed to them by Kansas City (dont know if the Steeler came back tho)
13 Nov 2012, 14:12 pm
How they get into the opposition’s 22m has been targeted, but what they do with possession while there is the real problem.
Spot on. You know the problem, now fix it, and I’d suggest start with your first receivers – the ball goes to the wrong people.
13 Nov 2012, 14:15 pm
WP won the Currie Cup – whooo hooo !!! WP for life
13 Nov 2012, 14:16 pm
@Rockn Rolla-17: Good man.Great victory for the Saints on Sunday against previously undefeated Falcons.Ffs,it was too close for comfort!!
13 Nov 2012, 14:17 pm
But on a serious note i belive van Graan did go States Side and study NLF play, that would explain the whole up and under culture
13 Nov 2012, 14:19 pm
@brains_trust-19: No they never….its all just a dream !!!
13 Nov 2012, 14:22 pm
Here are a few more problems for Mayer to deal with:
1. Too often, our first phase ball goes to our primary strike runners. They’re not taking the ball at speed, so it is easy to defend and it removes that strike runner as an option. The ball isn’t moving through the hands, which makes the problem even more pronounced. They should mix it up with a ‘dummy’ strike runner who passes to a second strike runner or an offload or a few quick passes to the wing with each receiver running straight and drawing defense.
2. The ball is not being protected. The receiver gets the ball and goes straight to ground after being tackled, often with only 1 supporting player. The opposition just ruck us off the ball. If we’re going to keep it tight, we need to commit more players to protect the ball.
3. Our backline is used defensively. When we get the ball, we’re keeping it tight with the forwards. At the moment, our backline is being used to make tackles and occasionally counter attack. We should be using players like JPP and Taute as first receivers, taking the pass at speed.
13 Nov 2012, 14:26 pm
@catchlightuk.com-23:
Not to mention tackle off-loads and runners looking for space rather then trying to bash and bash all 80 min
We all see that funny how the National Coach dont
13 Nov 2012, 14:29 pm
@catchlightuk.com-23: Spot on@Rockn Rolla-24: We can all thank old Uncle Ian Macintosh for the re introduction of “bulldoze-rugby” in the 90′s or at least his version.
13 Nov 2012, 14:35 pm
Overall, I have been very disappointed with what has been on display from the Springboks this season.
There has been nothing convincing about anything that they have done and there are no positives that I can take out of any game.
I mean, they couldn’t even beat the Argies at home, scraped through against lowly Ireland and were beaten by a very weak Australian team. This should not happen from a country with the depth and talent that we supposeably have.
I know that we have allot of injuries at the moment but our game plan and execution of various moves is a joke! Nothing is precise or accuarte. And the needless penalties are running up like a grocery bill. Where has the discipline gone?
I’m afraid if the we do not see the writing on the wall now when will we?
13 Nov 2012, 14:41 pm
Nick Mallett made another great point on Saturday: For the All Blacks, “bad” ball goes to the forwards and “good” ball goes to the backs. For the Boks, it’s the other way around – the wrong away around.
13 Nov 2012, 14:47 pm
@iceman-26:
It obvious our players get far more superior coaching at their unions, look at the way the Sharks, Cheetahs, and now recently WP run their plays not to mention the Lions to a degree
they must step out of a bok set-up gone all backwards, union coaches must now spend half the pre season undoing Meyer and Co’s work
13 Nov 2012, 14:47 pm
This is why your forwards coach shouldn’t also be your attack coach – and if he is related to your former boss then things get even more dodgy.
13 Nov 2012, 14:51 pm
I would love to see JDV being called up on the next camp and say “fuckthat this crew of dipshits and its too long in my career to fuckaround with these fools”
It would look fantastic on national print
13 Nov 2012, 15:16 pm
Some good posts / comment above.
Our problems:
No variation – we are so predictable.
Not enough support runners to take off-loads – crash and bash is our (boring) game.
We’d rather take the tackle / die with the ball rather than find space / gaps.
We always try to run through defenders instead of around them.
Brute strength will get us past the minnows but not (with any consistency) against the teams with big-ish players too (top 8 teams).
The All Blacks have mastered the off-load in the tackle. That’s a large part of why they are in a league of their own right now.
We don’t take the right attacking options when play opens up – the AB’s do.
Our culture is to defend. This, surely at International level, is a prerequisite. The AB’s culture is to attack. Defence is a prerequisite for them.
Anything else?
13 Nov 2012, 15:25 pm
@Rockn Rolla-30: JdV is the head dipshit,he couldn’t get the Stormers backline going and he’ll never get the boks backline going.The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
13 Nov 2012, 15:31 pm
@Maljan-31:
What irritates me most is that predictability!
Man I’m tired of watching the same thing over and over
Ruck….pienaar to forwards running at opo 10 channel and repeat….over and over and over.
When counter attack presents itself……high kick and chase……
Even when we score from lucky bounce I’m not even getting excited anymore. Because it was the bounce of the ball and not a slick run from a fullback like Percy or Pieter Rossouw or Breyten cutting the defense or Andre Joubert making space for his wings, or Andre Snyman cutting the back line and then actually finishing the move with a try or James Small rounding of a backline move from Hennie and Japie or Joost breaking around the ruck and setting up nice break or offload from Bobby making huge space………NO NO NO NO….it was lucky bounce and now van graan tells us Hbana try was example of his plan????? So luck is his plan?
Where are the days where our players were brilliant!
13 Nov 2012, 15:36 pm
Not to mention the kick offs on saterday!.. Every single kick to exactly the same place….WTF??? The All blacks surprised us with short middle kicks in soweto and they beat us 80% with that surprise….that is a surprise attack van graan….not the ball bouncing for your wing and then make as if it was your plan???? WTF???
13 Nov 2012, 15:49 pm
Pointless kicking away of hard earned possession has definitely not been successful, evidenced in HM’s poor record thus far this year as coach, not only with many losses and draws, but wins that were very marginal at best.
If the Bok forwards actually tried to dominate up front, getting forward momentum, breaking opposition defences, they and the backs would score a lot of tries, yet they prefer to not commit to the rucks and stand by watching the ball get turned over or slowed down, then it gets kicked straight down one of the opposition’s throats. Great strategy heh?
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Scots beat SA again this weekend, rain forecast of course.
13 Nov 2012, 16:02 pm
Heyneke Meyer keeps defending the Kick Chase gameplan, saying there is nothing wrong with it.
The thing he doesnt seem to realise is that its not the kick chase game plan thats flawed, its the fact that its the only game plan we have.
Heyneke some variety would be nice!
13 Nov 2012, 16:11 pm
@18 Pissant
I am surprised you say spot to Ryan’s comment. I do think it makes a big difference how you try to get there. While I am not calling for a run everything approach, you can’t realistically expect the backline to do nothing outside of the 22 and then all of a sudden become amazing, skilled runners creating & using space, with slick passing etc just because they get close to the try line.
They need to be challenged to run when it is on, create space & mismatches all over the field not only at certain times.
We need our backs to be able to break a line regularly. We may not score from each one, but our linebreaks need to improve. This will only come with more ambition, the converse of which is less kicking in general play.
13 Nov 2012, 16:16 pm
Van Graan says: But game development is about tweaking the small things and surprising the opposition like that.’
Are we continually surprised by the kiwis? No, we are outplayed by them because they are more skillful. He is talking twak, he needs to up skill his players fast.
To be fair, they should be a lot better than they are coming from their franchises, it is not as though they are setting the world alight in broken play either.
13 Nov 2012, 16:22 pm
Evidence is clear. The players are being moulded into drones, which negates what made them special and good in the first place. Take Lambie as a prime example, he is now doubting his own talent and game; the result becoming an indecisive player. Why not try and make players better players by adding skills or improving their weaknesses and then letting them decide how to play what is in front of them. I am all for maybe applying some structure or having a certain style but it is clear that players are nervous to just be themselves and actually express themselves. It makes defending the boks easy as talent (maybe the wrong word) is being coached out of players. Enjoyment has become pressure which is evident.
13 Nov 2012, 16:24 pm
@Rockn Rolla-28: Same as the English premier Football – Great at club level but shocking at national level
13 Nov 2012, 16:25 pm
@pie eater-39: Exactly, SA players are over coached. Should work more on skill, and less on structure.
13 Nov 2012, 16:26 pm
@Hoops-33: “and now van graan tells us Hbana try was example of his plan????? So luck is his plan?”
HEY watch what you say aboiut “Kitch Christie” van Graan!
this guy is a GENIUS!
13 Nov 2012, 16:31 pm
Van Graan doesnt instill much confidence with this blabber. Jeez he seems to be out of his depth as an attacking/skills/backline coach at international level! Id have a Eddie Jones, Carel du Plessis, Alan Zondagh any day!
13 Nov 2012, 16:34 pm
@Rockn Rolla-28: I tend to disagree. Even though the Currie Cup and Superrugby is exciting, I for one cannot believe the number of forward passes, dropped passes, bad passes, half made tackles, poor maul structure etc. All of these very simple skills. How is it some really decent players battle to pass both ways?! Compare this with NH game where conditions are a lot worse yet the ball rarely gets dropped etc. I for one think skills have gone backwards in SA. What those coaches have got right though is the self confidence and backing to allow players to express themselves and show what they are good at. A simple skill like passing the ball in the tackle seems to be lost to SA, yet is devastitnf for tha AB. This worm maul, that has grced our fields or the inabaility to pass the ball to the back of a maul rather one guy worming his way backwards, are the other forwards to dumb to hold the ball?
Skills need developing and weaknesses improved. An enjoyment introduced again too.
13 Nov 2012, 16:35 pm
@The Bill-38: upskill incrementally, not at once like PdV tried to which embarrassed the likes of Matfield, Smit and FdP, as they were “world champions” their egos didn’t allow them to open themselves up to learning a new way of playing and be seen to be “rebuilding”, world champs don’t rebuild, they vindicate their title was the mantra between FdP and the manne.
13 Nov 2012, 16:40 pm
how uncanny is it that the 1st choice 13 at the Lions is nowhere near the Bok match 22 but the fullback who played there as last ditch resort when the team was depleted by injuries has STARTED 3 Tests in the same position for the Boks.
that’s like sean maitlan starting at 13 before robbie fruean…
13 Nov 2012, 16:41 pm
@Jeez-43: what has carel done since being fired by the Boks in ’97?
13 Nov 2012, 16:43 pm
@Transformation-47:
It wasn’t the Boks that fired Carel…
…Keo will have you know it was him.
13 Nov 2012, 16:47 pm
@Transformation-42:
He doesnt seem to grasp the simple fact that the boks arent up to standard in the basic skills department, compared to Aus and Nz. The backs will never be potent enough to read the situation and react accordingly if they dont have the basic skills set the ABs have…
The Australian’s squad has never been so depleted and weak, but their basic skills stay the same, which keeps them competitive, enough so to beat the boks even though ,with all our injuries, technically the boks still have a stronger squad than they do.. why?
If you want to believe the stats that the boks spend the most time in the opposition’s 22, you have to ask what would the Aussies or Kiwi’s have done in those situations due to their superior finishing skills …
HM is rightfully stating the obvious, ‘its a coaching thing’ Van Graan is worried and is making excuses.
13 Nov 2012, 16:49 pm
@Transformation-46:
you think new zealand does not play provincial players out of position in the national squad?
13 Nov 2012, 16:49 pm
@pie eater-39:
I think you are right.
I can’t help but think that the Boks are being over-coached on attack and on the game-plan… Not enough freedom is being extended to the players and as a result, our players look like they are not enjoying the game anymore… It’s sad because it undermines the reason they play rugby in the first place.
There is a balance to be struck between giving your players structures to play from and giving them freedom to play what’s in front of them. At the moment, I think Meyer’s coaching style is weighted too heavily on following the structure. We thus look more like robots and lack fluency on attack.
13 Nov 2012, 16:52 pm
@Transformation-46: It’s down to 2 things IMO:
1) A national obsession with size (please note I am talking rugby here) If you are close to 2 meters and weigh over 100kgs and can catch a ball you must be good!
2) Meyer contrary to what some press has said has in inability to accept he is wrong. The chap should be playing F/B not centre but that would mean Meyer may have to concede his f/b is not the best. Well not even top three IMO. He may also have to concede that the skipper is playing some of his worse rugby ever and is looking very very tired (even though he is a quality player), that his one wing has lost his mojo a lot like his old f/h who is now scared for life. Meyer has failed in his man management and in installing confidence and in choosing players for their correct position!
13 Nov 2012, 16:56 pm
@Transformation-47:
I was merely stating that previous coaches have done more with bok backlines… It could be done again.
It seems SA coaches rely to heavily on a players natural attacking talent. How would a up and coming star be guided and trained to become the best player he can be in Nz I wonder? Lets face it the boks backline play have mostly been so frantic and you cant help but cringe until they make a mistake…
If our backs had Nz coaching they would probably be potent on attacking and more comfortable with ball in hand and finishing would be just another part of their game.
Its kind of funny when you recall the Waratah’s coaching staff stating that they dont believe that Sarel Pretorius ever received coaching on how to pass the ball. Puts things into scary perspective….
13 Nov 2012, 17:13 pm
I can’t help wondering whether FdP and J Fourie would make a difference to the backline, especially seen in light of the current coaching and patterns?
One area where we are at least far superior to the AB’s are the rolling maul.
Saw again on Sunday they have no clue how to get it going or to utilize it effectively.
Lucky for them they have no trouble scoring tries from just about any other position on the field.
13 Nov 2012, 17:16 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-50: don’t ask me what i think, provide examples of where it is happening currently
13 Nov 2012, 17:20 pm
Rewatch 2011 World Cup games, SA were actually pretty good. Out backline sparked and we scored loads of tries. We are capable, I think we need a new backline coach – And Jean cant pass well, He needs to step up on that front… you dont have to a) crash or b) run laterally and then pass laterally. 13 should be running inwards angles, we should try some skip passing, scissors, anything that can get the ball to wings with space to spare. Currently we crab the ball across the field and expect the wing to make ground against the line. They should have Eddie Jones come back for some consulting time.
13 Nov 2012, 17:22 pm
@nortierd-54: I think that Fourie du Preez’s vision is missing at 9, and Jacque Fouries angled running at 13. The best solution here is
Play Juan at 12 until Frans returns, play JP at 13 permanently.
Play Rhule at 14.
Play Taute or Aplon at 15.
Hougie at 9
Lambie/Jantjies at 10
Jean de Villiers at 11.
13 Nov 2012, 17:23 pm
@nortierd-54: I think you hit the nail on the head, the AB are good at it just chose to use the other far more potent weapons at their disposal. If memory serves me correctly they used it reasonably well against SA a few years ago. I think the boks are getting very close to truck and trailer as they were blown once on Saturdays test. That said the Argies were very good exponents of the maul and even they look more potrent on attack that the Boks these days!
13 Nov 2012, 17:25 pm
@Transformation-55:
so you will admit they have done it often before even if not as much currently.
is weepu playing at full back during last years world cup current enough..?
13 Nov 2012, 17:25 pm
@nama1-4:
And look, that’s not all!!…..he can build a rugby field, and that’s not all, a stadium too and if you think that’s all, look again ….. All for the low low price of R0, bokdrol, if u call now ….. Just dial 000000000 …..one of our friendly blue bull dancing girls will take ur cal …. Have ur blue bulls Visa card ready
13 Nov 2012, 17:31 pm
@Jake_White-56: I think your analyses is correct except that Jean shouldn’t be in the team most probably. I am also not entirely convinced by the Japanese based boks and their input. FDP had a very very poor WC and one wonders if like the pro he always was he left at the right time. Jacque Fourie is class but that said we have quality a plenty in SA at the same position. (presently the only expertise requirement being a decent defender and a crash ball / decoy runner expert). Hougie needs to go back to school because his mojo is gone. Meyer has tried to force a round peg into a square hole so we may always miss the best he has to offer at s/h.
13 Nov 2012, 17:32 pm
@Jake_White-57: I agree with you on your Eddie Jones comment in the previous post.
I reckon we should seriously look at JP playing fullback. de Jongh needs to be given time at no. 13 and Paul Jordaan should be brought into the squad as his understudy.
We need to build for 2015 so I wouldn’t bring back Fourie or Jacque.
Rhule: great prospect
Flyhalf: It needs to be Goosen with Lambie \ Jantjies fighting as back-up
Your mother at hooker will make the front row unbeatable
13 Nov 2012, 17:32 pm
@Jake_White-57:
I am a huge fan of Fourie and hoped he would return.
I am not sure if JdV will cut the mustard at 11, he seems a bit slow at the moment and could be exposed.
However, the way Hougaard was left for dead, his experience would be beneficial.
@pie eater-58:
Argies are surprising, especially the good backline tries they are scoring lately.
They have definitely added a new dimension to their game, not just about the beef anymore, but getting the runners going as we’ll.
Pity we can’t seem to get the mojo going as we’ll.
Maybe Saturday will be the day, but I believe we will keep our best for England.
We always seem to plod against the other NH teams, but lift it for the Poms.
No SH team wants to lose to them
13 Nov 2012, 17:37 pm
@Marty-62: My Mom is unavailable, she pulled a mussel at the beach with no hands.
If we beat England, then even a 1 point win to Scotland will be a success.
Scotlands only hope is for us to take our eyes off the ball and look a week ahead.
JP could be a good 13. Jean started for the boks on the wing, he can play there.
Jordaan is not a bad prospect, Is he not too small though ?
If we want to attack, we need to bring Aplon in at 15.
13 Nov 2012, 17:40 pm
@Marty-62: Chaps I don’t think we have any issues at F/B –
Taute is more than handy, Lambie is a more exciting runner than Zane (and to be fair he has been reliable without setting the world alight), I still think it is Frans Steyns best position, Aplon never lets the team down to name a few.
13 Nov 2012, 17:42 pm
@pie eater-61:
Jean wont make WC2015 – but his leadership is there for now. He must groom the next man though. We need to look into Africa for sprinters – for wings.
And maybe even some of these massive congolose. nigerians for Forwards.
IF NZ/Aus can use the South Seas as a breeding ground… i dont see why we cant use Africa.
13 Nov 2012, 17:48 pm
@pie eater-65:
If Frans should play f/b he must be allowed to play unemcumbered by rigid game plans, and must be afforded the opportunity by the coaches to play his way, irrespective of consequences.
If he wants to try 10 drop goals and lands 1, so be it, however, then the Bok supporters must also buy into it.
13 Nov 2012, 17:49 pm
@pie eater-65: I agree with Frans Steyn at 15 for sure.
@Jake_White-64: I am livid that the Scots think they can beat us – LIVID I tell you. We need to start attacking, our conservative game plan has definitely not worked so far.
13 Nov 2012, 17:51 pm
@Jake_White-66: @Jake_White-66: We’re not smart enough to keep hold of them. Who was the massive Nigerian flanker /lock now playing in New Zealand? Surely there must be a few more beasts to be found in africa. (can’t wait for the vitriol for that comment)
13 Nov 2012, 17:55 pm
@Marty-68: We should win at a canter. We need to beat ourselves (well the players that is need to) first. That said I recall a similar thought process a few years ago and vividly remember the outcome. The jocks are actually an underrated side and er um did beat Australia at mud water polo ealrier this year.
13 Nov 2012, 17:57 pm
@nama1-4:
Observation about 3-in-1 Van Graan
I guess it works like that on a typical Monday:
Frirst Period: Debriefing presentedd by Meyer
Second period: warm up with conditioning coach
Third period: team splits. Scrum coach teaches forwards to scrum
Backline coach teaches backline how to pass the ball
Fourth period:Defense coach teaches them to tackle
Fifth period:Attack coach teaches them to side step
Sixth period: happy massage for everyone by the physio
End of day: spanpraatjie by Meyer
It means that one coach would, for instance, show de Jongh how to pass the ball, the other coach how to tackle, and the other coach how he must move forward.
No wonder these guys don’t smile and enjoy. They. To flippin scared they haven’t done their homework properly and they fail in the test
13 Nov 2012, 18:01 pm
@pie eater-70: Yes, we should beat them easily. On paper, there is no comparison between the 2 sides. I would just like to see us heading in the right direction though; i.e. improving with each game. I put R1500.00 on the boks beating Ireland by more than 15 and I will do the same this weekend. Don’t let me down again biatches…
13 Nov 2012, 18:01 pm
@cuntlyn-71: repeat process for Tuesday to Friday with additional video tutorial on Friday night before hot chocolate and marshmellow night caps.
13 Nov 2012, 18:03 pm
@Marty-72: Weather is cold and grim so it may be a slug fest. There has to be an easier way of making money (torturing yourself)!
13 Nov 2012, 18:08 pm
@Jake_White-56: We sucked at the 2011 RWC mate. Didn’t play rugby at all against Wales and Samoa just kicked and held on. Did play some rugby against Namibia and an awful Fiji side; and played pretty well in the Quarter-final but terrible finishing. Boks have been terribly infeffective and boring for almost three years now. It wont get better until we get progessional coaches drilling our Boks. Van Graan, Loubscher, Koen, McFarland aren’t and hopefully we can be rid of them sooner than later; we’re stuck with Heineken Mania.
13 Nov 2012, 18:09 pm
Oops@Spiesisworthless1-75: meant proffesional but progressional works even better
13 Nov 2012, 18:20 pm
Anyone here have any insight as to what exacty the issue with Mitchell was? I would have thought his no nonsense straight talking (possible expletive involved) would have been ideal for SA rugby. He seemed to transform the Lions in the curry cup? I get a sense that some professional rugby players earning big bucks as they should are now getting a bit ahead of themselves, is this correct?
Any Lions fans with insight on the subject would be good to hear from you as I was discussing the matter with a kiwi mate and we were both a bit confounded by the whole issue.
13 Nov 2012, 18:20 pm
“I’ve maintained that the the focus of the criticism of the Springboks has been wrong. How they get into the opposition’s 22m has been targeted, but what they do with possession while there is the real problem.”
There is an elephant in the room here.
When you use the kick-chase as a means to achieve parking space in the opposition 22, you are necessarily more lethargic in attack and defense.
This lethargic element is often overlooked when discussing the strategy.
13 Nov 2012, 18:28 pm
@willievz-78: Analyses paralyses!
How often were we in possession of the ball in said 22, how often did the ball make it past the 2nd receiver, did we come away with a penalty as I suspect most of those stats were geaned from the chapionship where the opposition know a penalty is better than a try.
etc etc etc
13 Nov 2012, 19:00 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-59: i will admit nothing! you come up with scenarios like that since you are claiming it happens…
lmao @ weepu playing at fullback, you are smoking your socks…
13 Nov 2012, 19:19 pm
@Transformation-80: i also don’t remember Weepu playing FB but that’s not to say it didn’t happen. But we do play provincial players out of position – Jane is a FB, Kahui is a centre, I could be wrong but I thought Read started out at blindside until he became an AB. Ben Smith should be back three but is either pet project for super sub or centre.
13 Nov 2012, 19:22 pm
Wow lots of new people or is it just new nics?
13 Nov 2012, 19:22 pm
@gonzo-81: Not to mention our habit of playing FBs at centre Cullen, McDonald, Mils, but that’s just bringing up bad memories
13 Nov 2012, 19:29 pm
Somebody mentioned earlier that Victor stated in his book PdV tried to get them (the forwards I assume) to run into space and offload, but when they kept dropping the ball he gave up. Now that may sound funny, but it’s a sad comment on the ball skills of professional rugby players.
When the ball does go wide there’s no variation or attempt to create space by either the passer or receiver. The art of the timed pass seems to be non existent amongst our backs.
13 Nov 2012, 19:32 pm
Here’s the thing about Heyneke Meyer…
He has one achievement to his name, a super 15 title.
And to be honest, the Bulls were not the best team in the Super rugby tournament that year. They finished 3rd if memory serves correctly but more importantly, the final was given to them by Sharks errors. The sharks missed the winning conversion from dead out in front; The Sharks missed the touch finder to end the game etc…
So truthfully, Heyneke Meyer has never really produced a great team with any franchise. His best year was 2007 when he was coach of a good (not great) Bulls team that won the title.
As head coach of Leicester, Meyer produced the club’s worst run of form for a long time.
And now as head coach of the Boks, we are playing quite poorly and our win-record is very mediocre.
I believe that every coach deserves a fair shot, but truthfully when I look at the way we are playing, it is quite clear that we are regressing.
13 Nov 2012, 19:43 pm
@pie eater-69:
Daniel Adongo (Kenyan) is the name. He wasn’t deemed good enough at the Sharks, moved to Pretoria where he couldn’t even make the Tuks Varsity Cup. Tells you something, doesn’t it.
13 Nov 2012, 19:48 pm
I think the Boks will beat Scotland, but I fear it will be closer than we expect. I think things are slowly starting to fall into place – be it by chance or by choice.
I also think Francois Steyn and Bismark Du Plessis would improve the Springboks by about 20 to 30%. Just the addition of those two players.
I hope both of them will be fit in time to play Super 15.
13 Nov 2012, 19:51 pm
@mxhosa-86: I actually thought Adongo had a serious future ahead of him at one stage. I mean the guy is a physical specimen of note – built like Pierre Spies but taller and with just as much pace.
Unfortunately the guy can’t catch a rugby ball if his life depended on it. A pity really.
The Bulls also got very excited about his signing, their website and fans making all kinds of claims that they had won some kind of battle against the Sharks by getting his signature and that the Sharks would ‘pay’.
Still waiting at the checkout Bulls ?
13 Nov 2012, 19:57 pm
@mxhosa-86: I had been wondering if the Chiefs or Blues would pick him up. can’t see any other news about it but according to wikipedia, he’s playing for the Kings next year!
13 Nov 2012, 20:03 pm
@gonzo-89: Guess i don’t read enough Afrikaans news
http://152.111.1.88/argief/berigte/beeld/2012/11/08/GO/21/oosKeniaan.html
13 Nov 2012, 20:36 pm
‘..big runners in the backline…’ need i say more? AND it seems that that realisation re the scots excited him more than all the AB tries!
13 Nov 2012, 20:50 pm
@cuntlyn-60:
13 Nov 2012, 21:08 pm
@dusky-88:
I guess u missed the ITM cup? See gonzo reckons he was good enough for the NZ franchises.
13 Nov 2012, 21:38 pm
@Transformation-55:
@gonzo-81:
you boys have short memories.
in the game against canada muliana came of in the 2nd half and weepu replaced him at fullback. maybe i am smoking my socks but i could swear that did happen..?..
@gonzo-81:
cheers gonzo,
yip jane also came to mind as well kahui.
its definitely something which still happens in nz rugby with provincial players played out of position but perhpas happens to a lesser extent than in the past?
13 Nov 2012, 21:38 pm
ok
i’m out again
cheers
13 Nov 2012, 22:32 pm
Jean put in some great leg pumping gain line breaks. Was great to see him making a contribution.
At the same time, we have to look at this team as a B team, In the 4Ns we had over15 1st choice players injured, now we have 11 players and counting. What does everyone want to expect? Imagine our Fantastic soccer team, as fabulous as they are, imagine it was their B team was playing. We could only laugh ourselves silly at how brilliant they would be.
So to expect miricals from a bunch of kids, (good few 21yrs of age) playing adult rugby, is asking for to much. We have to put everything into prospective. And the 1st time many playing in EU which demands a slightly different game plan is just another example.
Yes the backline played like poo but what about the backline coach?
His Majesty (HM) seems to point out it is probably a conbination of both player and coach who are responsable. Now thats fantastic news and again shows why he could be one of our greatest coaches to come, he thinks logically, fairly, is openminded. I man is only a man when he can put up his hand and admits that and says, I have stuffed up. Few coaches we have had are able to do this. Real men are able to swollow their pride and concede when wrong. His Magesty appears to be such a man.
What we have achieved so far should be expected and how we have performed should be expected, considering all the factors against us at the moment and this has not happened for some time. I said it would take two years to build this team and things are right on that track. Dizzie Divvie peter de villers did a shocking show of building player depth in his time coaching although writers disagree. I recall when he was departing he said that he was leaving SA rugby in a great position and had brought in many guys. (I think I fell of my chair in laughter was my reaction)
But in reality, that could not be further form the truth. If so, we would not have had to blood so many new kids to fill the void thanks to poor player management from clubs. I had mentioned before that the period for a coach on the thrown should be relooked into and possibly have the departing coach and new coach working together for a few months before hand over. SO yes a coach should know his time is up before the end of his contract and then he should pass on the knowledge gained onto the new coach.
In business, this is becoming vital – how to keep knowledge from leaving the business?
saving it preserving it = competitve advantage which could become contineous competitive advantage. Rugby is no different.
SA Rugby simply have to be open mined and forward thinking and start acknowledging that the Irish and Kiwi systems are better structured, yes its not just the Kiwis that have this structure where National team comes first. Quiet franckly is plan and simple – very logical thinking.
Look at Ireland. Rugby is their 4th most important sport, they are 1/10th the population of us and they are still able to wip our asses in recent years. What does that tell you?
Who is doing what right and who is smarter? I would not be surpised if other countries follow the “Kiwis and Irish” structures. it pretty logical, one can say it goes without saying…
13 Nov 2012, 22:43 pm
@Greenies-96: line breaks? I remember him crossing the advantage line often in the game but all that resulted was a ruck, likea forward then… Problem is, Jdv’s actually an inside centre or 2nd 5/8
13 Nov 2012, 22:53 pm
@Fernly…….Fern when you taking that cruise?
13 Nov 2012, 23:00 pm
“How they get into the opposition’s 22m has been targeted, but what they do with possession while there is the real problem”
Maybe, just maybe – that is because of the love affair with predictable pedestrians at 10, 12, 15.
Steyn, JDV, Zane.
How utterly predictable are these gentlemen…
13 Nov 2012, 23:14 pm
Keo, Symantec and now Chrome keep telling me your site is a known distributor of malware. What’s up with that sh*t?
13 Nov 2012, 23:34 pm
HuggyTree
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
Nothing is going to get better. It’s not.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:35 pm
“I have heard there are troubles of more than one kind.
Some come from ahead and some come from behind.
But I’ve bought a big bat. I’m all ready you see.
Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me!”
13 Nov 2012, 23:36 pm
“You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes.
You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
You’re on your own. And you know what you know.
And YOU are the one who’ll decide where to go…”
13 Nov 2012, 23:36 pm
For the fighters and haters.
“A person’s a person, no matter how small.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:37 pm
“Think left and think right and think low and think high.
Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try!”
13 Nov 2012, 23:37 pm
“From there to here, from here to there,
funny things are everywhere!”
13 Nov 2012, 23:38 pm
“Why fit in when you were born to stand out?”
13 Nov 2012, 23:39 pm
“I meant what I said and I said what I meant.
An elephant’s faithful one-hundred percent!”
13 Nov 2012, 23:39 pm
“You’re off to Great Places!
Today is your day!
Your mountain is waiting,
So… get on your way!”
13 Nov 2012, 23:40 pm
“So be sure when you step, Step with care and great tact.
And remember that life’s A Great Balancing Act.
And will you succeed?
Yes! You will, indeed!
(98 and ¾ percent guaranteed)
Kid, you’ll move mountains.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:41 pm
“You’ll miss the best things if you keep your eyes shut.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:41 pm
“We are all a little weird and life’s a little weird, and when we find someone whose weirdness is compatible with ours, we join up with them and fall in mutual weirdness and call it love.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:42 pm
“When beetles fight these battles in a bottle with their paddles
and the bottle’s on a poodle and the poodle’s eating noodles…
…they call this a muddle puddle tweetle poodle beetle noodle
bottle paddle battle.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:43 pm
“You can get help from teachers, but you are going to have to learn a lot by yourself, sitting alone in a room.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:44 pm
“So the writer who breeds more words than he needs,
is making a chore for the reader who reads.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:45 pm
“I know, up on top you are seeing great sights,
but down here at the bottom we, too, should have rights.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:45 pm
“He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:46 pm
“The storm starts, when the drops start dropping
When the drops stop dropping then the storm starts stopping.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:46 pm
“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living, It’s a way of looking at life through the wrong end of a telescope. Which is what I do, And that enables you to laugh at life’s realities.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:46 pm
“How did it get so late so soon? It’s night before it’s afternoon. December is here before it’s June. My goodness how the time has flewn. How did it get so late so soon?”
13 Nov 2012, 23:47 pm
“Christmas doesn’t come from a store,
maybe Christmas perhaps means a little bit more….”
13 Nov 2012, 23:47 pm
“And the turtles, of course…all the turtles are free,
as turtles and, maybe, all creatures should be.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:49 pm
“It’s opener, out there, in the wide, open air.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:50 pm
“Today you are You, that is truer than true.
There is no one alive who is Youer than You.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:51 pm
“You are you. Now, isn’t that pleasant?”
13 Nov 2012, 23:52 pm
“Today I shall behave, as if this is the day I will be remembered.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:52 pm
“Don’t cry because it’s over, smile because it happened.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:52 pm
“Being crazy isn’t enough.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:53 pm
“I’m glad we had the times together just to laugh and sing a song,
seems like we just got started and then before you know it, the times we had together were gone.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:54 pm
“Remember me and smile, for it’s better to forget than to remember me and cry.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:55 pm
“Think and wonder, wonder and think.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:55 pm
“I am the Lorax. I speak for the trees.
I speak for the trees for the trees have no tongues.”
13 Nov 2012, 23:57 pm
(Acknowledgements to fairfax.news.nz….)
” It was only Scotland.
That statement will have been repeated around New Zealand since the All Blacks started their end of year European tour with a stylish 51-22 win at Murrayfield.
This week the final word in that phrase will change to Italy, but the sentiment will be the same.
Though there may be an element of truth, it’s a tad unfair to a team that continues to set the standard in world rugby.
If anyone is wondering, the Scots were no walk in the park for the touring squad.
They were immensely big men, pumped with the adrenaline of 67,000 locals and the will to honour their war dead with a courageous performance.
Victor Vito said after the test that he was unsure if he’d played against a bigger or more physical forward pack other than the Springboks.
And yesterday, as the team boarded its charter flight for Rome, the toll taken on the bodies of those who played was evident.
Tamati Ellison could barely walk because of a suspected broken toe, while Ben Smith’s swollen eye socket seemed to get blacker and bigger with every hour.
In Italy another sizeable forward pack awaits. “Every test match there are sore bodies and the Scottish were exactly the same,” lock Sam Whitelock said. “We made a number of tackles for extended periods so there’s definitely some sore bodies, necks and shoulders.”
Yes, the All Blacks are more skilful across the park, more capable of seeing space and of playing what’s in front of them. No, that does not mean their tasks in Scotland and Italy are easy.
Two years ago the Scots bounced back from a 49-3 loss to the All Blacks by beating the Springboks the following week.”
Deja vu on its way, perhaps?
13 Nov 2012, 23:58 pm
“Through three cheese trees three free fleas flew.
While these fleas flew, freezy breeze blew.
Freezy breeze made these three trees freeze.
Freezy trees made these trees’ cheese freeze.
That’s what made these three free fleas sneeze.”
14 Nov 2012, 00:00 am
“When you’re in a Slump,
you’re not in for much fun.
Un-slumping yourself
is not easily done.”
14 Nov 2012, 00:00 am
“Don’t grumble! Don’t stew!
Some critters are much-much,
Oh, ever so much-much
So muchly much-much more unlucky than you!”
14 Nov 2012, 00:01 am
“Don’t give up. I believe in you all.”
14 Nov 2012, 00:03 am
“You ought to be thankful a hole heaping lot,
for the places and people you’re lucky you’re not!”
14 Nov 2012, 00:03 am
“To the world you may be one person;
but to one person you may be the world.”
14 Nov 2012, 00:08 am
“It’s not about what it is, it’s about what it can become.”
14 Nov 2012, 00:10 am
“Poor empty pants
with nobody inside them.”
14 Nov 2012, 00:11 am
“I’m afraid that sometimes you’ll play lonely games too.
Games you can’t win ’cause you’ll play against you.”
14 Nov 2012, 00:12 am
“They say I’m old-fashioned, and live in the past,
but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast!”
14 Nov 2012, 06:51 am
bwahahaaaa
Wiliban … not Taliban (aka Make Love not War):
***-scandal-terrorist-act-collapse-our-military-budget/" rel="nofollow">http://jobvoucherplan.com/2012/11/13/will-a-***-scandal-terrorist-act-collapse-our-military-budget/
14 Nov 2012, 06:59 am
Seems the loonies have taken over!
14 Nov 2012, 07:02 am
@Angostura-144: hmmm
looking at that link (***), I see s_e_x is a banned word
this a mutha grundy site? Jannie Kruger the web master?
anyway, in that link, *** = s_e_x (sans the underscores, of course)
14 Nov 2012, 07:13 am
Mark, Roy, who-the-heck-ever-cares…
Using my mobile because i can’t login online… Keep getting malware warnings… Followed the warning link and seems you have been polluted by two other sites: bcozindia.com and 61.19.251.0.
Sort this out guys… will not be chatting on Keo again till you fix this and post that you have fixed it… pretty sure anyone else who values their computers information security will be reluctant to chat on Keo too.
Dont be typically arrogant and ignore this… Let us know when it is sorted.
14 Nov 2012, 08:04 am
@pie eater-73:
Cheers
I enjoyed the smile
14 Nov 2012, 08:22 am
@ufo-147:
I think the malware monster ate them all…
I blame Ryan for accessing those s e x sites from his hotel room in Edinburgh. That is what happens when you let certain people roam around unsupervised!
14 Nov 2012, 09:08 am
“‘There have been some massive moments in our game development, with Bryan Habana’s try in Soweto being a prime example of where we want to go with our game. ”
I agree that was a great try but it did involve bobbled ball which was touched on the fly by McCaw and possibly another AB, so it’s execution was far from clinical.
Also the final pass to Habana was well forward which I assume Meyer will want to work on that as well.
So as good as the try was, it was hardly what I would single out as THE “where we want to go with our game” moment.
14 Nov 2012, 09:17 am
@MaximusLudicrusHumorus-101::lol: there are lots of people out there like me trying to make a difference, we are mostly ignored by society as the the loony fringe ”fcked up, nuerotic and emotional” I believe the phrase is.
14 Nov 2012, 10:34 am
@Brads-150: Well said Brads.
Well it makes sense I suppose – the management seem to think that any kind of chip ‘n chase, up and under ‘n chase, or grubber ‘n chase is the way they want to play…….
Sigh… this is why Meyer always says there’s nothing wrong with the game plan, it is the execution that is at fault.
In laymans terms: when we skop the ball we are not good enough at getting it back again……
Here’s a thought Heyneke; why not KEEP the ball. I know its a novel idea, but having worked so hard to secure the ball we then think its intelligent to kick it away with the sole purpose of getting it back again.
Not only is this strategy stoopid, it is also about as exciting as watching a weed grow…..
14 Nov 2012, 10:37 am
I see that the Scottish ******** have stated the following:
”We’ve beaten both teams (South Africa and Tonga) before and I’m sure we will do again.”
we need to destroy them so badly that they decide to stop playing rugby.
Now this, boys, makes me furious.
For the Scottish to even think that they have a chance is not a good sign.
I hope we put 50 past ‘em
14 Nov 2012, 11:07 am
Just announced. Apart from Steyn, not a bad team.
15-J Taute
14-JP Pietersen
13-Z Kirchner
12-P Lambie
11-J de Jongh
10-M Steyn
9-F Hougaard
8-D Vermeulen
7-W Alberts
6-F Louw
5-J Kruger
4-E Etsebeth
3-J du Plessis
2-A Strauss (c)
1-H van der Merwe
16-C Ralepelle
17-G Steenkamp
18-CJ van der Linde
19-F van der Merwe
20-M Coetzee
21-J Vermaak
22-E Jantjies
23-L Mvovo
14 Nov 2012, 11:08 am
@Finfan-154: LOL, you almost had me there.
14 Nov 2012, 11:40 am
@Finfan-154:
Funny one.
That is one k ak backline though.
14 Nov 2012, 11:55 am
@Finfan-154: just play Vermeulen Prop ( he is slow enough) and the team is perfect
14 Nov 2012, 11:57 am
@capebull-157:
I would still have Vermeulen (prop) in team than missing in action Britney any day of the week…
Spies may be fast, but he runs away from action…
14 Nov 2012, 11:59 am
@Gumboots-158: Arno boet, Arno
14 Nov 2012, 12:04 pm
@capebull-159:
Ano who? I think he has played about two games for the Bulls and you want to make him a bok. Are you HM?
14 Nov 2012, 12:11 pm
@Gumboots-160: No but, I can not take this poster prop anymore.
He was voted IRB player of the year in a team that incuded
Eben,
Goosen, Kolisi , Taute, ect
By the way , you don’t seem to have a problem with Rhule in the team ??
14 Nov 2012, 12:16 pm
Team announced
Juan and Gurthro to start but no Jantjies on the bench
Heyneke you racist *****.
Morne is super waste
14 Nov 2012, 12:23 pm
@capebull-161: Well it’s a pity he is going to spend most of the next 3 years sitting on the bench for the Bulls
Spies gets to be your captain and 8th man until 2015…..Arno, well bless his little heart, he will have to move somewhere else to get gametime, won’t he?
He won’t even make the Bok squad next year, if he spends the whole S15 sitting on the bench or playing 15 minute cameos out of position. (And don’t come with this sh yte about if ‘Spies is injured’ – he was injured now, he will never be injured again. Spies will also not be rotated…..)
What are the Bulls going to do?
14 Nov 2012, 12:50 pm
@Finfan-154: Bud – that would actually have been an awesome team! Maybe Elton at 10 – that would have been very interesting to see. Like Lambie at 12, Taute at 15. Even de Jongh at 11 makes sense. I would have loved to see those combos
14 Nov 2012, 20:44 pm
What makes it so difficult to teach a Springbok rugby player to offload in the tackle or to spot a gap?
****, these guys probably count under the 100 top rugby players in the world.
Or is it more difficult to change the bulldoze and place the ball mindset. Something that just takes over when a player receives the ball?
14 Nov 2012, 20:52 pm
@MaximusLudicrusHumorus-132: Funny doctor S Well needed
9 Dec 2012, 20:36 pm
Poor rye.
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