Boks striving hard for cutting edge
14 Nov 2012
RYAN VREDE, in Edinburgh, reports Springbok forwards coach and technical analyst Johann van Graan says the evolution of their attacking game will take time and is dependent on a range of factors.
The Springboks’ attacking method has been widely lamented as being overly pragmatic and bordering on conservative. Their focus on gaining territory through tactical kicking has, however, reaped considerable reward. Their time spent in the opposition’s 22m compares favourably with the All Blacks, the difference being how clinical the world champions have been once there.
On Monday Heyneke Meyer lamented the ‘unacceptable’ return of tries considering their opportunities in what he described as the ‘goal zone’. ‘The top teams in the world get points when they get in there,’ he said. ‘It may be a coaching or inexperience thing, but it has to improve. We get in the right areas and we get clean ball, but we don’t convert.’
I’ve maintained that the the focus of the criticism of the Springboks has been wrong. How they get into the opposition’s 22m has been targeted, but what they do with possession while there is the real problem.
It would be remiss not to note the affect injuries, (particularly among the back division) have had on the team’s attacking potency. There has never been a settled combination, while three different flyhalves have started, with Elton Jantjies coming on as an early replacement at Soccer City.
However, how they resolve this deficiency should be a matter of great concern. They’ve desperately lacked imagination, flair, unpredictability and precision when shifting the ball wide. Van Graan, who is also involved in the attacking play, said they had a vision of a preferable outcome, but stressed that there are prerequisites for them to get there.
‘You don’t get the end result immediately, its a process. As soon as you get into a winning habit, combinations settle and you gain experience as a team, you can start evolving,’ he said. ‘There have been some massive moments in our game development, with Bryan Habana’s try in Soweto being a prime example of where we want to go with our game. But game development is about tweaking the small things and surprising the opposition like that.’
The Springboks have relied heavily on their rolling maul as an attacking weapon. However, denied the territory they covet against Ireland in the first half on Saturday, they looked impotent and rudderless. They recovered well and were able to hurt Ireland with their rolling maul. But Van Graan warned that this facet of play will come under stern examination against Scotland at Murrayfield once more.
‘It is a big part of the our game. Our base is so vital and the tight five work hard to keep that base up. Once it is then they can’t sack you. From there it’s technique and synergy. It’s when we use it and where you use it,’ he said.
‘You also have to show respect to the opposition, most of the northern hemisphere teams stop the maul quite well by blocking off your middle and back options, and give you the front ball. They hit and sack you there. So you have to be clever and perhaps take a risk.’
He also noted the Scots’ focus on stifling the recycle at the breakdown. They succeeded in patches early in the game in this regard against the All Blacks, before the tourists stepped up their tackle fight and consistently got over the gainline to deny them a crack at the contest.
Van Graan continued, extolling their hosts’ other strengths.
‘They’ve shown that once they get into the 22m, it doesn’t matter how good the defence is, they can keep the ball. They did that quite well against the All Blacks. They’ve also got some big runners in the backline and their mauling and lineout is one of their big strengths. We’ll have to be clever in countering that,’ he noted.
167 Comments
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13 Nov 2012, 16:49 pm
@pie eater-39:
I think you are right.
I can’t help but think that the Boks are being over-coached on attack and on the game-plan… Not enough freedom is being extended to the players and as a result, our players look like they are not enjoying the game anymore… It’s sad because it undermines the reason they play rugby in the first place.
There is a balance to be struck between giving your players structures to play from and giving them freedom to play what’s in front of them. At the moment, I think Meyer’s coaching style is weighted too heavily on following the structure. We thus look more like robots and lack fluency on attack.
13 Nov 2012, 16:52 pm
@Transformation-46: It’s down to 2 things IMO:
1) A national obsession with size (please note I am talking rugby here) If you are close to 2 meters and weigh over 100kgs and can catch a ball you must be good!
2) Meyer contrary to what some press has said has in inability to accept he is wrong. The chap should be playing F/B not centre but that would mean Meyer may have to concede his f/b is not the best. Well not even top three IMO. He may also have to concede that the skipper is playing some of his worse rugby ever and is looking very very tired (even though he is a quality player), that his one wing has lost his mojo a lot like his old f/h who is now scared for life. Meyer has failed in his man management and in installing confidence and in choosing players for their correct position!
13 Nov 2012, 16:56 pm
@Transformation-47:
I was merely stating that previous coaches have done more with bok backlines… It could be done again.
It seems SA coaches rely to heavily on a players natural attacking talent. How would a up and coming star be guided and trained to become the best player he can be in Nz I wonder? Lets face it the boks backline play have mostly been so frantic and you cant help but cringe until they make a mistake…
If our backs had Nz coaching they would probably be potent on attacking and more comfortable with ball in hand and finishing would be just another part of their game.
Its kind of funny when you recall the Waratah’s coaching staff stating that they dont believe that Sarel Pretorius ever received coaching on how to pass the ball. Puts things into scary perspective….
13 Nov 2012, 17:13 pm
I can’t help wondering whether FdP and J Fourie would make a difference to the backline, especially seen in light of the current coaching and patterns?
One area where we are at least far superior to the AB’s are the rolling maul.
Saw again on Sunday they have no clue how to get it going or to utilize it effectively.
Lucky for them they have no trouble scoring tries from just about any other position on the field.
13 Nov 2012, 17:16 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-50: don’t ask me what i think, provide examples of where it is happening currently
13 Nov 2012, 17:20 pm
Rewatch 2011 World Cup games, SA were actually pretty good. Out backline sparked and we scored loads of tries. We are capable, I think we need a new backline coach – And Jean cant pass well, He needs to step up on that front… you dont have to a) crash or b) run laterally and then pass laterally. 13 should be running inwards angles, we should try some skip passing, scissors, anything that can get the ball to wings with space to spare. Currently we crab the ball across the field and expect the wing to make ground against the line. They should have Eddie Jones come back for some consulting time.
13 Nov 2012, 17:22 pm
@nortierd-54: I think that Fourie du Preez’s vision is missing at 9, and Jacque Fouries angled running at 13. The best solution here is
Play Juan at 12 until Frans returns, play JP at 13 permanently.
Play Rhule at 14.
Play Taute or Aplon at 15.
Hougie at 9
Lambie/Jantjies at 10
Jean de Villiers at 11.
13 Nov 2012, 17:23 pm
@nortierd-54: I think you hit the nail on the head, the AB are good at it just chose to use the other far more potent weapons at their disposal. If memory serves me correctly they used it reasonably well against SA a few years ago. I think the boks are getting very close to truck and trailer as they were blown once on Saturdays test. That said the Argies were very good exponents of the maul and even they look more potrent on attack that the Boks these days!
13 Nov 2012, 17:25 pm
@Transformation-55:
so you will admit they have done it often before even if not as much currently.
is weepu playing at full back during last years world cup current enough..?
13 Nov 2012, 17:25 pm
@nama1-4:
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13 Nov 2012, 17:31 pm
@Jake_White-56: I think your analyses is correct except that Jean shouldn’t be in the team most probably. I am also not entirely convinced by the Japanese based boks and their input. FDP had a very very poor WC and one wonders if like the pro he always was he left at the right time. Jacque Fourie is class but that said we have quality a plenty in SA at the same position. (presently the only expertise requirement being a decent defender and a crash ball / decoy runner expert). Hougie needs to go back to school because his mojo is gone. Meyer has tried to force a round peg into a square hole so we may always miss the best he has to offer at s/h.
13 Nov 2012, 17:32 pm
@Jake_White-57: I agree with you on your Eddie Jones comment in the previous post.
I reckon we should seriously look at JP playing fullback. de Jongh needs to be given time at no. 13 and Paul Jordaan should be brought into the squad as his understudy.
We need to build for 2015 so I wouldn’t bring back Fourie or Jacque.
Rhule: great prospect
Flyhalf: It needs to be Goosen with Lambie \ Jantjies fighting as back-up
Your mother at hooker will make the front row unbeatable
13 Nov 2012, 17:32 pm
@Jake_White-57:
I am a huge fan of Fourie and hoped he would return.
I am not sure if JdV will cut the mustard at 11, he seems a bit slow at the moment and could be exposed.
However, the way Hougaard was left for dead, his experience would be beneficial.
@pie eater-58:
Argies are surprising, especially the good backline tries they are scoring lately.
They have definitely added a new dimension to their game, not just about the beef anymore, but getting the runners going as we’ll.
Pity we can’t seem to get the mojo going as we’ll.
Maybe Saturday will be the day, but I believe we will keep our best for England.
We always seem to plod against the other NH teams, but lift it for the Poms.
No SH team wants to lose to them
13 Nov 2012, 17:37 pm
@Marty-62: My Mom is unavailable, she pulled a mussel at the beach with no hands.
If we beat England, then even a 1 point win to Scotland will be a success.
Scotlands only hope is for us to take our eyes off the ball and look a week ahead.
JP could be a good 13. Jean started for the boks on the wing, he can play there.
Jordaan is not a bad prospect, Is he not too small though ?
If we want to attack, we need to bring Aplon in at 15.
13 Nov 2012, 17:40 pm
@Marty-62: Chaps I don’t think we have any issues at F/B –
Taute is more than handy, Lambie is a more exciting runner than Zane (and to be fair he has been reliable without setting the world alight), I still think it is Frans Steyns best position, Aplon never lets the team down to name a few.
13 Nov 2012, 17:42 pm
@pie eater-61:
Jean wont make WC2015 – but his leadership is there for now. He must groom the next man though. We need to look into Africa for sprinters – for wings.
And maybe even some of these massive congolose. nigerians for Forwards.
IF NZ/Aus can use the South Seas as a breeding ground… i dont see why we cant use Africa.
13 Nov 2012, 17:48 pm
@pie eater-65:
If Frans should play f/b he must be allowed to play unemcumbered by rigid game plans, and must be afforded the opportunity by the coaches to play his way, irrespective of consequences.
If he wants to try 10 drop goals and lands 1, so be it, however, then the Bok supporters must also buy into it.
13 Nov 2012, 17:49 pm
@pie eater-65: I agree with Frans Steyn at 15 for sure.
@Jake_White-64: I am livid that the Scots think they can beat us – LIVID I tell you. We need to start attacking, our conservative game plan has definitely not worked so far.
13 Nov 2012, 17:51 pm
@Jake_White-66: @Jake_White-66: We’re not smart enough to keep hold of them. Who was the massive Nigerian flanker /lock now playing in New Zealand? Surely there must be a few more beasts to be found in africa. (can’t wait for the vitriol for that comment)
13 Nov 2012, 17:55 pm
@Marty-68: We should win at a canter. We need to beat ourselves (well the players that is need to) first. That said I recall a similar thought process a few years ago and vividly remember the outcome. The jocks are actually an underrated side and er um did beat Australia at mud water polo ealrier this year.
13 Nov 2012, 17:57 pm
@nama1-4:
Observation about 3-in-1 Van Graan
I guess it works like that on a typical Monday:
Frirst Period: Debriefing presentedd by Meyer
Second period: warm up with conditioning coach
Third period: team splits. Scrum coach teaches forwards to scrum
Backline coach teaches backline how to pass the ball
Fourth period:Defense coach teaches them to tackle
Fifth period:Attack coach teaches them to side step
Sixth period: happy massage for everyone by the physio
End of day: spanpraatjie by Meyer
It means that one coach would, for instance, show de Jongh how to pass the ball, the other coach how to tackle, and the other coach how he must move forward.
No wonder these guys don’t smile and enjoy. They. To flippin scared they haven’t done their homework properly and they fail in the test
13 Nov 2012, 18:01 pm
@pie eater-70: Yes, we should beat them easily. On paper, there is no comparison between the 2 sides. I would just like to see us heading in the right direction though; i.e. improving with each game. I put R1500.00 on the boks beating Ireland by more than 15 and I will do the same this weekend. Don’t let me down again biatches…
13 Nov 2012, 18:01 pm
@cuntlyn-71: repeat process for Tuesday to Friday with additional video tutorial on Friday night before hot chocolate and marshmellow night caps.
13 Nov 2012, 18:03 pm
@Marty-72: Weather is cold and grim so it may be a slug fest. There has to be an easier way of making money (torturing yourself)!
13 Nov 2012, 18:08 pm
@Jake_White-56: We sucked at the 2011 RWC mate. Didn’t play rugby at all against Wales and Samoa just kicked and held on. Did play some rugby against Namibia and an awful Fiji side; and played pretty well in the Quarter-final but terrible finishing. Boks have been terribly infeffective and boring for almost three years now. It wont get better until we get progessional coaches drilling our Boks. Van Graan, Loubscher, Koen, McFarland aren’t and hopefully we can be rid of them sooner than later; we’re stuck with Heineken Mania.
13 Nov 2012, 18:09 pm
Oops@Spiesisworthless1-75: meant proffesional but progressional works even better
13 Nov 2012, 18:20 pm
Anyone here have any insight as to what exacty the issue with Mitchell was? I would have thought his no nonsense straight talking (possible expletive involved) would have been ideal for SA rugby. He seemed to transform the Lions in the curry cup? I get a sense that some professional rugby players earning big bucks as they should are now getting a bit ahead of themselves, is this correct?
Any Lions fans with insight on the subject would be good to hear from you as I was discussing the matter with a kiwi mate and we were both a bit confounded by the whole issue.
13 Nov 2012, 18:20 pm
“I’ve maintained that the the focus of the criticism of the Springboks has been wrong. How they get into the opposition’s 22m has been targeted, but what they do with possession while there is the real problem.”
There is an elephant in the room here.
When you use the kick-chase as a means to achieve parking space in the opposition 22, you are necessarily more lethargic in attack and defense.
This lethargic element is often overlooked when discussing the strategy.
13 Nov 2012, 18:28 pm
@willievz-78: Analyses paralyses!
How often were we in possession of the ball in said 22, how often did the ball make it past the 2nd receiver, did we come away with a penalty as I suspect most of those stats were geaned from the chapionship where the opposition know a penalty is better than a try.
etc etc etc
13 Nov 2012, 19:00 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-59: i will admit nothing! you come up with scenarios like that since you are claiming it happens…
lmao @ weepu playing at fullback, you are smoking your socks…
13 Nov 2012, 19:19 pm
@Transformation-80: i also don’t remember Weepu playing FB but that’s not to say it didn’t happen. But we do play provincial players out of position – Jane is a FB, Kahui is a centre, I could be wrong but I thought Read started out at blindside until he became an AB. Ben Smith should be back three but is either pet project for super sub or centre.
13 Nov 2012, 19:22 pm
Wow lots of new people or is it just new nics?
13 Nov 2012, 19:22 pm
@gonzo-81: Not to mention our habit of playing FBs at centre Cullen, McDonald, Mils, but that’s just bringing up bad memories
13 Nov 2012, 19:29 pm
Somebody mentioned earlier that Victor stated in his book PdV tried to get them (the forwards I assume) to run into space and offload, but when they kept dropping the ball he gave up. Now that may sound funny, but it’s a sad comment on the ball skills of professional rugby players.
When the ball does go wide there’s no variation or attempt to create space by either the passer or receiver. The art of the timed pass seems to be non existent amongst our backs.
13 Nov 2012, 19:32 pm
Here’s the thing about Heyneke Meyer…
He has one achievement to his name, a super 15 title.
And to be honest, the Bulls were not the best team in the Super rugby tournament that year. They finished 3rd if memory serves correctly but more importantly, the final was given to them by Sharks errors. The sharks missed the winning conversion from dead out in front; The Sharks missed the touch finder to end the game etc…
So truthfully, Heyneke Meyer has never really produced a great team with any franchise. His best year was 2007 when he was coach of a good (not great) Bulls team that won the title.
As head coach of Leicester, Meyer produced the club’s worst run of form for a long time.
And now as head coach of the Boks, we are playing quite poorly and our win-record is very mediocre.
I believe that every coach deserves a fair shot, but truthfully when I look at the way we are playing, it is quite clear that we are regressing.
13 Nov 2012, 19:43 pm
@pie eater-69:
Daniel Adongo (Kenyan) is the name. He wasn’t deemed good enough at the Sharks, moved to Pretoria where he couldn’t even make the Tuks Varsity Cup. Tells you something, doesn’t it.
13 Nov 2012, 19:48 pm
I think the Boks will beat Scotland, but I fear it will be closer than we expect. I think things are slowly starting to fall into place – be it by chance or by choice.
I also think Francois Steyn and Bismark Du Plessis would improve the Springboks by about 20 to 30%. Just the addition of those two players.
I hope both of them will be fit in time to play Super 15.
13 Nov 2012, 19:51 pm
@mxhosa-86: I actually thought Adongo had a serious future ahead of him at one stage. I mean the guy is a physical specimen of note – built like Pierre Spies but taller and with just as much pace.
Unfortunately the guy can’t catch a rugby ball if his life depended on it. A pity really.
The Bulls also got very excited about his signing, their website and fans making all kinds of claims that they had won some kind of battle against the Sharks by getting his signature and that the Sharks would ‘pay’.
Still waiting at the checkout Bulls ?
13 Nov 2012, 19:57 pm
@mxhosa-86: I had been wondering if the Chiefs or Blues would pick him up. can’t see any other news about it but according to wikipedia, he’s playing for the Kings next year!
13 Nov 2012, 20:03 pm
@gonzo-89: Guess i don’t read enough Afrikaans news
http://152.111.1.88/argief/berigte/beeld/2012/11/08/GO/21/oosKeniaan.html
13 Nov 2012, 20:36 pm
‘..big runners in the backline…’ need i say more? AND it seems that that realisation re the scots excited him more than all the AB tries!
13 Nov 2012, 20:50 pm
@cuntlyn-60:
13 Nov 2012, 21:08 pm
@dusky-88:
I guess u missed the ITM cup? See gonzo reckons he was good enough for the NZ franchises.
13 Nov 2012, 21:38 pm
@Transformation-55:
@gonzo-81:
you boys have short memories.
in the game against canada muliana came of in the 2nd half and weepu replaced him at fullback. maybe i am smoking my socks but i could swear that did happen..?..
@gonzo-81:
cheers gonzo,
yip jane also came to mind as well kahui.
its definitely something which still happens in nz rugby with provincial players played out of position but perhpas happens to a lesser extent than in the past?
13 Nov 2012, 21:38 pm
ok
i’m out again
cheers
13 Nov 2012, 22:32 pm
Jean put in some great leg pumping gain line breaks. Was great to see him making a contribution.
At the same time, we have to look at this team as a B team, In the 4Ns we had over15 1st choice players injured, now we have 11 players and counting. What does everyone want to expect? Imagine our Fantastic soccer team, as fabulous as they are, imagine it was their B team was playing. We could only laugh ourselves silly at how brilliant they would be.
So to expect miricals from a bunch of kids, (good few 21yrs of age) playing adult rugby, is asking for to much. We have to put everything into prospective. And the 1st time many playing in EU which demands a slightly different game plan is just another example.
Yes the backline played like poo but what about the backline coach?
His Majesty (HM) seems to point out it is probably a conbination of both player and coach who are responsable. Now thats fantastic news and again shows why he could be one of our greatest coaches to come, he thinks logically, fairly, is openminded. I man is only a man when he can put up his hand and admits that and says, I have stuffed up. Few coaches we have had are able to do this. Real men are able to swollow their pride and concede when wrong. His Magesty appears to be such a man.
What we have achieved so far should be expected and how we have performed should be expected, considering all the factors against us at the moment and this has not happened for some time. I said it would take two years to build this team and things are right on that track. Dizzie Divvie peter de villers did a shocking show of building player depth in his time coaching although writers disagree. I recall when he was departing he said that he was leaving SA rugby in a great position and had brought in many guys. (I think I fell of my chair in laughter was my reaction)
But in reality, that could not be further form the truth. If so, we would not have had to blood so many new kids to fill the void thanks to poor player management from clubs. I had mentioned before that the period for a coach on the thrown should be relooked into and possibly have the departing coach and new coach working together for a few months before hand over. SO yes a coach should know his time is up before the end of his contract and then he should pass on the knowledge gained onto the new coach.
In business, this is becoming vital – how to keep knowledge from leaving the business?
saving it preserving it = competitve advantage which could become contineous competitive advantage. Rugby is no different.
SA Rugby simply have to be open mined and forward thinking and start acknowledging that the Irish and Kiwi systems are better structured, yes its not just the Kiwis that have this structure where National team comes first. Quiet franckly is plan and simple – very logical thinking.
Look at Ireland. Rugby is their 4th most important sport, they are 1/10th the population of us and they are still able to wip our asses in recent years. What does that tell you?
Who is doing what right and who is smarter? I would not be surpised if other countries follow the “Kiwis and Irish” structures. it pretty logical, one can say it goes without saying…
13 Nov 2012, 22:43 pm
@Greenies-96: line breaks? I remember him crossing the advantage line often in the game but all that resulted was a ruck, likea forward then… Problem is, Jdv’s actually an inside centre or 2nd 5/8
13 Nov 2012, 22:53 pm
@Fernly…….Fern when you taking that cruise?
13 Nov 2012, 23:00 pm
“How they get into the opposition’s 22m has been targeted, but what they do with possession while there is the real problem”
Maybe, just maybe – that is because of the love affair with predictable pedestrians at 10, 12, 15.
Steyn, JDV, Zane.
How utterly predictable are these gentlemen…
13 Nov 2012, 23:14 pm
Keo, Symantec and now Chrome keep telling me your site is a known distributor of malware. What’s up with that sh*t?
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