De Jongh’s small problem
15 Nov 2012
RYAN VREDE, in Edinburgh, writes because of his size Juan de Jongh has to be exceptional to force Heyneke Meyer to consider him as a real solution to his outside centre problem.
I wrote at the start of Meyer’s tenure that he is a disciple of size and strength, firm in his belief that a player must have this attribute to be successful in Test rugby.
At the time I cited De Jongh among the players who would struggle to push for a regular starting berth, with Meyer appreciative of his attacking capacity in Super Rugby, but unconvinced that he could replicate his hot-stepping in reduced space and time and consistently dominate the tackle fight on attack and defence in Tests.
De Jongh has, however, got an opportunity to alter his coach’s fairly rigid view, and bid to convince him that he can fill a void Meyer is concerned about going forward. His problem is that he’ll get one shot. As it stands Jaco Taute will be reinstated for the final Test of the tour against England at Twickenham. That is unless De Jongh produces something special against Scotland.
There has been no shortage of suggestions and, at times, accusations that Meyer is a racist for what is perceived to be the sidelining of black players. I’ve worked professionally with him for years, and have never got that impression. That he has a prejudice against smaller players of average ability (in a Test context) is undoubted. De Jongh is one such player. He is capable of feats of brilliance (his try in the Currie Cup final an example) but has not replicated these feats often enough to be considered a must for the Springboks.
In his favour is that he is 24 years old and still has time to grow. Also, Meyer has shown a willingness to have some of his views challenged. By way of example, Ruan Pienaar and Francois Louw have, on the strength of their performances and maturity they’ve exhibited, paved the way for a steadily increasing number of overseas-based players to be involved with the Springboks. Meyer had previously been adamant that he would select his squads from players based in South Africa, unless his hand was forced through injury.
Similarly De Jongh can advance the cause of the smaller backs. He refused to make soaring statements about size, but came across as confident in his ability.
‘I know where I’ve stood with Heyneke from the start. I know what attributes he is looking for from me, but I also know what I need for my game,’ De Jongh said. ‘Everyone has their opinion [on size] but I have an opportunity this weekend to prove people who think I’m too small wrong.’
510 Comments
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15 Nov 2012, 13:49 pm
@shooter-192: I suggest they call the Bulls the Pink cows!!
They do get milked week in and week out by all the teams… and when things do not go the way of their supporters they cry to their mommies for a Sterie Stumpie… preferably a pink one…
Kan mamma vir jou n pink melkie bring?
15 Nov 2012, 13:50 pm
@XhosaKid-193: Brilliant post. I might just print it out, enlarge it poster size and display it in my lounge.
Keep up the good work, my little Xhosa laatie.
15 Nov 2012, 13:50 pm
@Provvas-194:
Kolisi wouldnt be on my run on side. On the bench at a push.
Jacques Fourie at 13.
No Hougaard at 9. Hope we find someone else there.
And Kitshoff wouldnt start at TH for me.
And unless Burden drastically improves his pure hooker skills, he wouldnt be on my bench.
15 Nov 2012, 13:50 pm
@XhosaKid-193: Some sweeping statements in your first paragraph.
15 Nov 2012, 13:50 pm
@John Galt-196: You would love to believe that now,would you??The pic of the Sharks team at the cup presentation tells a different story.
15 Nov 2012, 13:51 pm
You don’t need Gunther to make a fool of youerself. He just does it with some intelligence.
Which is ironic don’t you think. O no, I forget. You don’t. You use smileys.
15 Nov 2012, 13:52 pm
I’ve come to the conclusion that HM had no other choice but to select Hougie and Zane in the starting line up.
Can you imagine what will happen to him when he is back in Pretoria if he selects a team with only one run on Bull(Kruger)?
15 Nov 2012, 13:53 pm
A semi final loss hurting more than a Cup Final loss or any loss for that matter, stuff like that coming from adults, how daft does one have to be?, siriaas!!!
15 Nov 2012, 13:54 pm
@Finfan-197: Amazing when seven Bulls are selected in REALITY no one screams foul.. or even earlier this year seven Sharks..
But god forbid seven stormers players in the starting line up….
Proofs alot I would say..
Wp players are the future…even if they get contracted at other unions..
15 Nov 2012, 13:54 pm
@wnbb-205:
More shock than disappointment.
I mean, Catrekilis with a CC medal. Fk me. Whats next, Catrekilis with a S15 for the Kings?
15 Nov 2012, 13:55 pm
@Provvas-201: mooowhaahwahha.
So who you want to replace HM with.. o-yes… the unfairly ousted AC.
And don’t use the pink! argument please… it really hurts my feelings.
15 Nov 2012, 13:55 pm
@nama1-207: And that Bull,for some strange reason,is also turning into a marshmallow.In my opinion there is no Bull deserving of a Bok place.
15 Nov 2012, 13:55 pm
I’m a great De Jong fan but he is no Jacques Fourie. Then again nor are any other outside centres in SA. The fact is Dagg weighs in at 95kg’s and Carter 93kgs (as per AB’s official website) These are their smallest backs. JDJ is 85kg’s which kind of puts Meyers argument into perspective. At test level it really gets down to small margins between winning & losing. In situations where you are a metre or 2 from the try line and you have one or two defenders in your way the bigger guys weight, power and momentum may take him over. A small guy is going to get knock back or flung into touch like a rag doll. I hope JDJ proves us all wrong.
15 Nov 2012, 13:55 pm
@XhosaKid-208:
Keep quiet P Diddy.
Adults are talking.
15 Nov 2012, 13:56 pm
15 Nov 2012, 13:58 pm
@John Galt-203: I struggle to find places for the Lambies, Serfonteins, JJ engelbrechts, Arno Bothas, etc etc… so many young players coming through that could really step it up… People seem to have forgotten the impact Kolisi made at Stormers before he was injured…. I believe you will be reminded in Sr next year!
15 Nov 2012, 13:58 pm
@Provvas-209: Very true.The best memory of 2012 after winning the cup would be how WP tricked the Bulls into buying Sadie and JJ .
15 Nov 2012, 13:59 pm
I have an idea. Let’s have 5 more articles about Juan before Friday.
Nothing else to write about really.
15 Nov 2012, 14:00 pm
de jongh phopho ubagcwalisele rhaaaa ,bayakuthuka kodwa vala phezulu wena udlale ibhola udlalele wena hayi iwonga(bububhanxa)
15 Nov 2012, 14:00 pm
Heyneke is being an outright idiot. Juan de Jongh has proven himself succesful at test level under PDV´s tenure. Certainly more succesful than Taute has been thus far. Ditto Aplon vs Kirchener. Australias O Connor is proof that size doesnt matter at this level. Ditto Carter, Matt Giteau, Digby Ioane and to some extent Corey Jane and Berrick Barnes.
All players range in height from 1.78 – 1.83 cm tall and 85 – 94 kg´s in weight.
Juan de Jongh is shorter at 1.75 cm but his weight is in the zone at 88kg´s (which would have more to do with stopping power and breaking the line than height wouldnt it).
Houghaard is 4 cm taller and 2 kg heavier – no massive difference yet he is picked week in and out without fail and ive yet to see him really perform. Why should size be an issue for Juan? Yeah he´s a touch shorter but honestly if height were the only factor that would mean that a team filled with locks should dominate world rugby? Gimme a break.
In so doing Heyneke is overlooking some of the bets talent we have at 13 – De Jongh, Ebersohn, Paul Jordaan, and Kolisi and Brussouw not to mention Aplon. I´m really sick of all this talk of size when the reality is there are some of the worlds best rugby players in this size zone.
Jane 1.83 88
Ioane 1.79 93
O Connor 1.80 88
Barnes 1.83 87
Giteua 1.78 85
Carter 1.78 94
Hougaard 1.79 90
De Jongh 1.75 88
15 Nov 2012, 14:02 pm
sorry forgot to add
Pat Lambie 1.77 and 83 kgs. Lighter than Juan and only 2 cm taller.
Elton Jantjes 1.76 and 84 kgs´yet both are firmly in the frame.
15 Nov 2012, 14:03 pm
Yeah this is getting boring again.Can’t we have an article how the Bulls are going to be the Stormers bunnies again next year.
15 Nov 2012, 14:03 pm
@Provvas-216:
Yeah i would battle to find places for Lambie(when Goosen in fully fit) and the others. Other than those changes, i like your side.
Also, one other change is Vermulen at 8.
He’s just not a classic 8 to me. i would have him as a backup blindsider like he used to be at Free State. Hard and uncompromising. But 8? no.
Look at the quality 8s around Read, Piccamoles, Harinordiquy, Lobbe, Denton etc Varmulen is lagging this group by some way.
But 3 years is a muff long way away and things will change.
15 Nov 2012, 14:04 pm
@John Galt-196: Is that what you fellas keep telling yourself? Noooooooooooooo, say it isn’t so
Always the bridesmaids, never the brides hey?
15 Nov 2012, 14:04 pm
@shooter-218:
15 Nov 2012, 14:05 pm
@shooter-211: No not at all! No fan of Ac.. If we had a half decent coach, with the talent Wp have to offer, we should have been pressing for 5 CC in a row and a Sr title long ago!! It is only Ac holding us back…. we are achieving on shear talent alone and no coaching whatsoever.. that goes for Fatfoot and also Silver fox!!
@Stormtrooper-213: You need to get to within 5 meters of the line.. and no amount of clever kicking or strong players will get you there..
You need game breakers… Like JDJ, Aplon, JPP, Goosen etc no matter their size!!
15 Nov 2012, 14:05 pm
which leads me to believe that 1) either Heyneke is clueless and doesnt even know he has small players currently playing for him or 2) this is all journalistic mumbo jumbo.
15 Nov 2012, 14:06 pm
@wnbb-212:
Then you also have Morne on the bench, also not deserving of his spot.
So, in the end, it is actually only Flip who can rightfully claim a spot in the Bok 23 at the moment. The only reason for that is that the lock cupboard is bare after Vic and Bakkies.
Imagine a Bok team with no Bulls players while the coach is a former Bulls coach awa a former DOR of the Bulls.
It explains Kirchner and Hougie in the team then.
15 Nov 2012, 14:06 pm
@Slumtown-220: Good post.I’ve said it before,but it’s just a waste of time trying to convince the Danville thickos.
15 Nov 2012, 14:08 pm
@goodstuff-177:
If you ever saw Japie play you would have known he was way heavier than 77kg.
There is a lot of inaccurate information on the web, this link is much closer to the truth. He was definitely in the late 90kgs.
http://eurosport.du.ae/rugby/japie-mulder_prs8722/person.shtml
JAPIE MULDER – RUGBY
Country : South Africa
Date of birth : 18/10/1969
Location :
Height : 1.83 m
Weight : 98 kg
15 Nov 2012, 14:09 pm
Is JDJ bigger than Reyhan
15 Nov 2012, 14:09 pm
@213, Wow!!! Genius, Cory Jane must a giant with his 80 odd Kg’s, just emphasized my point about poor rugby knowledge from those who pay casual interest to the game
15 Nov 2012, 14:09 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-224:
Well you would know as a Stormers supporter.
Why do you say it like you dont know the feeling.
15 Nov 2012, 14:11 pm
@wnbb-229: yeah man the whole thing is ridiculous. Size blah blah blah – up front in the forwards in the tight five yes you need grunt and weight etc but you can afford to have at least 1 smaller loose forward and definitely scrumhalves, flyhalves and often other backline players are not the biggest guys around. Its all down to skill. Dan Carter is my height and a touch heavier than me. Yet he is one of the best rugby players on the planet. If Juan bulked up a bit with some muscles to hit 90kg that would be more than sufficient for a test level player. I mean look at Shane Williams!!!
1.70m and 80 kgs!! Yet he is regarded as a legend of the game. Test players do not need to be huge. Its a moot point.
15 Nov 2012, 14:11 pm
@Slumtown-220:
That’s what I’ve been asking the whole damn thread long
Why issue with size with JDJ
15 Nov 2012, 14:12 pm
@John Galt-233: four super finals losses and the last two CC’s as well. Enough said.And don’t get me started on that famous century of kukness now.
15 Nov 2012, 14:13 pm
I really hope JdJ does well this weekend.
SA are short on quality 13 and someone needs to step up.
I would love to see Taute get an extended run at 15 as well. Pipedreams?
15 Nov 2012, 14:13 pm
@Dawn-235: yeah it smacks to me of prejudice.
15 Nov 2012, 14:13 pm
Same story with Rhule… needs more size… far too small for a Int. player …. just look what Norman Nelson did to him …. Rhule & JDJ – sorry okes, good super rugby players maybe … but not Int quality!
15 Nov 2012, 14:13 pm
@Slumtown-220: 100% agree with you, excellent post.
15 Nov 2012, 14:14 pm
@shooter-192: And WTF is shooter? Get this idiot, Cape of Storms = Stormers.
What a re tarded argument.
15 Nov 2012, 14:14 pm
@John Galt-237: actually not so much – I´m vertain Jacques Fourie will return to the bok setup, then we have Juan de Jongh, Paul Jordaan, Robert ebersohn and if you retread him as a centre Francois Houghaard. (Ive said it a thousand times but I think its one of his best positions).
15 Nov 2012, 14:15 pm
@suffer_guy-239:
Rhule will moer you into next week
15 Nov 2012, 14:15 pm
@John Galt-233: I’ve experienced it a few times of course….not pleasant. But, I’m humbled that you would put me in the same category as you experts. Guppies the Grandmasters in fuckingupfinals.
We learn from the best?
15 Nov 2012, 14:15 pm
@John Galt-203: That’s because Kitshoff is a LH.
15 Nov 2012, 14:15 pm
@suffer_guy-239: read my post 220 and argue that again please.
15 Nov 2012, 14:16 pm
@goodstuff-241:
Huh?
15 Nov 2012, 14:18 pm
Dawn, apparently it matters because Meyer plans to run over opposition players in futility, he just doesn’t have a plan that considers intelligence & skill, pure brawn is the way, hence JDJ doesn’t fit in Meyer’s plan, Meyer doesn’t allow intelligence & skill ahead of brawn
15 Nov 2012, 14:19 pm
From Rugby 365
Scotland feel that if they ‘front up physically’ to South Africa at Murrayfield on Saturday they will be able to beat a Springbok team that plays a very ‘simple and direct’ game.
We are playing such dumb rugby that even the minions now think were easy beats. We have lost allr espect in World Rugby. The Irish commentators kept saying in Saturday – South Africa are here for the taking. OMG what a horrible state of affairs.
15 Nov 2012, 14:19 pm
Dawn…. dream on… some of my body parts are bigger than him
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