Brutal Boks blunt Scots
17 Nov 2012
RYAN VREDE, in Edinburgh, watched the Springboks deliver an almighty defensive performance in the second half to beat Scotland 21-10 at Murrayfield.
This was not a wholly clinical performance from the Springboks on a number of fronts, but one that will nonetheless please Heyneke Meyer and galvanise his side ahead of the sternest Test of the tour in London next week.
It was undoubtedly a victory built, once again, on brutal, accurate and disciplined defence. This has been the hallmark of all the Springboks’ victories this season, and they will have to sustain this if they are to become the dominant team they envisage being.
At the heart this success has been Francois Louw. Irrepressible and seemingly omnipresent since his installment in the side, Louw is now surely among the world’s pre-eminent opensiders and undoubtedly the most valuable player in the Springboks’ ranks at this stage.
Louw was not alone in his excellence. His back row brothers Willem Alberts and Duane Vermeulen shone on attack and defence. The trio are gradually growing into a triumvirate, formidable in their combination, all possessing power and fearlessness in equal measure. Their form and indeed that of Eben Etzebeth, who surely was created for the sole purpose of playing Test rugby, and others like the industrious Adriaan Strauss and unrelenting Jannie du Plessis, is promising, not only for the showdown with England but beyond that. Meyer has the makings of a truly great Springbok pack, and the addition of Bismarck du Plessis, Andries Bekker and Schalk Burger next year will further amplify their potency.
There was little to excite from an expansive attacking perspective, but this is how it will be until the back division settles and finds cohesion and synergy. Meyer has been criticised for myriad reasons, but today he deserves praise for what was a clear directive to pound Scotland into submission through his heavies. The hosts never looked capable of repelling their surges in the first half, losing the gainline battle which consequently robbed them of contesting the breakdown in a meaningful way. When the momentum swung they looked equally inept at bossing the tackle fight, which undermined their cause.
For the first 40 the Springboks were able to control possession and, more pertinently, territory, from where they relied on the best rolling maul in the game to ravage the Scots. Pat Lambie banked two penalties before converting Strauss’s try after a maul.
So dominant were the Springboks that their hosts’ first entry into their 22m came in the 35th minute and their ambition was duly blunted by the brilliant Louw, who earned a breakdown penalty on his 5m line. It was 14-3 at the break, with the Springboks looking supremely comfortable.
That changed in the second half, with Scotland summoning a spirit that was reminiscent of the one that drove the Springboks to a second-half turnaround at Lansdowne Road last week. Strauss got his brace, anticipating and intercepting a pass, and Lambie added the extras, but that was the sum total of the time the Springboks spent in Scotland’s territory.
The home crowd’s belief was stirred with a well worked try off the lineout, scrumhalf Henry Pyrgos slicing through a hole engineered by intelligent splitting of the Springboks’ lineout formation. Greig Laidlaw converted and Scotland’s siege continued unabated. The composure and unfailingly accuracy the Springboks exhibited under extreme pressure was inspiring. They will take heat for what will be perceived as a struggle. But this Scotland team scored three tries against the world champion All Blacks last week. That is the perspective that should inform any assessment of this match.
The tourists held on, even when Flip van der Merwe was sin binned for cynical play. Are there major improvements needed in the week ahead? Absolutely. England are a far superior side and more capable of exploiting the Springboks’ deficiencies. An attacking edge continues to elude them. They again failed to convert their first-half time in the goal zone into more points, which would have made their passage more comfortable.
But this inexperienced Springbok side has passed another important test, one a superior team failed in 2010. Their education continues. The journey is long.
743 Comments
17 Nov 2012, 18:38 pm
Ryan does keo pay u enough to take all the abuse from the **** u write
17 Nov 2012, 18:39 pm
Ah well
17 Nov 2012, 18:39 pm
@saru1983-1:
Hey Capo, is that you? You got a year younger dude!!!
17 Nov 2012, 18:39 pm
To think Victor, Bissie etc lost to these fellas a while back….
17 Nov 2012, 18:41 pm
“Flustered Boks survive scrum and possession breakdown”
17 Nov 2012, 18:41 pm
vrede writes as meyer’s buddy.
its the only explanation.
almighty defence? hahahaha what u have to analise is why we play defence rugby the whole 2half and how it’ll ends against a decent team.
17 Nov 2012, 18:41 pm
Tries from a maul and an intercept. Pretty much the Bok pattern now. Where is the creativity and excitement that so many Bok teams of the past have had? It might be semi-effective, but it will eventually loose the hearts of the fans.
17 Nov 2012, 18:42 pm
Now we just need a backline coach
17 Nov 2012, 18:43 pm
keo, next time send a real journalist to boks tour, not a member of meyer’s staff.
17 Nov 2012, 18:43 pm
Lose – to fail to win.
Loose – the opposite of tight.
Sorry, just had to.
17 Nov 2012, 18:45 pm
Can somebody please tell me WTF Ricardo Lobshur did to be qualified for best backline coach available to bok rugby.????
17 Nov 2012, 18:47 pm
Scotland’s rush defence would have made backline play more difficult.
17 Nov 2012, 18:47 pm
THANK YOU guns
17 Nov 2012, 18:47 pm
Just because u played professional rugby does not mean u automatically qualify as an expert to train international professional teams.
Anyways for all I know he’s not half bad and players just too f brain washed by Skop n Jag ****!
17 Nov 2012, 18:48 pm
maybe he’s a forwards coach.
in meyer’s game plan is what he wants.
17 Nov 2012, 18:49 pm
my prediction was for a 28-10 win for SA, they should have had another try in the first half. Still way too many handling errors, the ball is too slow, they are choosing route 1 instead of going wide, JDV still doesnt know how to pass,kicking too much posession away, backline all over the place when the ballis passed out. They will need to up the game for next week, however id say only by 20% to beat this England team. Scotland are the same old team, yet more good wingers but they dont get the ball and seem happy to lose heroically.
17 Nov 2012, 18:50 pm
Folks need to stop bitching about meyer. He will get it right. He will be massive in 12 months.
But we need to start making a ton of noise re our non-existent backline play.
Meyer will stay, we need to up the ante on the lack of a backline coach. But HM is so loyal, he will add a backline consultant, not fire the incumbent
17 Nov 2012, 18:51 pm
@Lions_Soutie-10:
lose – what us Scots do very often
loose – the average womans ****** in Scotland
sorry just had to
17 Nov 2012, 18:51 pm
Ryan did u by any chance happen to do the final edits on Ricardo Lobshur’s C.V / bok application?
Honest question, Yes or No??
17 Nov 2012, 18:52 pm
@Guns-11: he licked the jam between Meyer’s butt cheeks.
17 Nov 2012, 18:52 pm
Mallet is going befok with the Springbok attacking play on supersport!!!
17 Nov 2012, 18:53 pm
Shirt but hope Jennie and Alberts got one more big one in them.. And boy we need to sort our scrumming and hatred of possession out.
17 Nov 2012, 18:55 pm
@Johannes_Lombard-17: there is no such ******* thing as a backline coach in a bok setup.U have a coach who is Meyer who has the first and last say the others just help carry tackle bags
17 Nov 2012, 18:57 pm
well done boks
17 Nov 2012, 18:57 pm
@saru1983-20: faaar to easy! He should have started with Alberts, Guthro, Junnie and Beast just to pass first application phase.
17 Nov 2012, 18:58 pm
Brutal boks? How can “dominating” a minnow team by having a good defence structure be considered to be BRUTAL?
17 Nov 2012, 18:58 pm
That is the cool version of Mallet u get to see on supersport imagine he had free reign to say what the ******* he really wanted to
17 Nov 2012, 19:01 pm
Brutal Boks??You are not for farking real,Ryan.Are you farking smoking Haggis or what??I think you are supposed to eat the damn stuff,Ryan.
17 Nov 2012, 19:01 pm
@saru1983-27:
Yeah I wish he’d let it rip on the bok back line .
17 Nov 2012, 19:02 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-24: Ja well done Boks…
Still young squad. If they can learn from this then great but if kirchner continues to kick possession awaybin opposition half when we desperate to hold onto possession then he must taste that bench and learn, De-toxify skopenjag phase 1.
17 Nov 2012, 19:02 pm
Even without a coach you would expect 7 International ” world class” backs to be able to come up with a set piece move or 2 between themselves.
17 Nov 2012, 19:02 pm
Wish we could see Mallet on tv outside of SA
17 Nov 2012, 19:03 pm
@saru1983-27: Mallett would surely jump at the chance to turn this Bok ship around…
17 Nov 2012, 19:04 pm
@lesiba-26:
exactly! what were they when they took 5 tries off Australia then? turning into a side that acccepts narrow ground out victories over teams that are 20 points poorer at least. The days of 68-10 victories are long gone, can you imagine the team of 1998 claining an 11 point win was brutal, a victory of anything less than 25 points would have been a national disaster back then
17 Nov 2012, 19:05 pm
9, 10, 15 all playing under instruction. Lambie standing deeper and starting to look like a poor morne steyn clone.
For Farks sake let the laaitie play
17 Nov 2012, 19:08 pm
@wnbb-28: Hahahahahaha I don’t know what he is smoking but whatever it is, it has seriously messed his mind up.
17 Nov 2012, 19:09 pm
Watsup Guns who’s Jennie?
17 Nov 2012, 19:10 pm
Brutal Bokkes oh dear
17 Nov 2012, 19:10 pm
anyway im outta here off to take the wifey to see the vampire with a ******. The day just gets better and better
17 Nov 2012, 19:10 pm
v A G I N A
17 Nov 2012, 19:11 pm
@saru1983-35:
Well we don’t have a coach in the springbok setup that knows anything about attack play. For fck sakes van Graan is the forwards and attack coach!!!!
17 Nov 2012, 19:11 pm
@Guns-30:
yip, very happy with where they are heading.
to be fair lambie kicked away as much as kirchener did.
meyer clearly wants a win over all else so will not, but i would have tested taute at fb and morne to start with lambie on the bench.
17 Nov 2012, 19:11 pm
I never saw the game but does not seem you guys agree with Ryan Again ?
17 Nov 2012, 19:13 pm
Surely if the boks were brutal we would have had 40 to 50 points?
17 Nov 2012, 19:14 pm
@dquinn25-34: What is worrying me more and more is that we’re starting to accept mediocrity because of the low expectations we have of this team. Why is it that people are so proud of our defence when we were supposed to be dominating the previous 2 games against minnows with our attacking play? Imagine the ABs celebrating the fact that they defended well against minnows?! That will be a cold day in hell.
17 Nov 2012, 19:14 pm
Seems like same old HM game plan ?
Get possession, kick it away, then defend like crazy
17 Nov 2012, 19:15 pm
@lesiba-45:
Our defense is getting so good because we having a lot of practice at it
17 Nov 2012, 19:16 pm
Jekyll and Hyde Bok team.
unconvincing second half……although defence great…
Backs look sterile and impotent.
17 Nov 2012, 19:17 pm
BorIng Boks the Cancer of World Rugby. Seriously disappointed in this incipate performance. Please for the love of all that is good please tell me how we have improved over the past season.
And this rubbish of not enough experience really undermines our intelligence as rugby followers. Especially when the most experienced players have consistently been the worst performers.
This is honestly the most boring brand of rugby I have ever seen in my life. Dud the ball go past JDV once today? Were our wingers even playing? Did we have one back line move? Our try says it all. A flipping hooker standing in midfield!!!!!!!
This era will serve to turn plenty of neutrals away from rugby and to other sporting codes. Sad but true. My 8 year old got bored and wanted to watch the football. Well done Meyer. Now I’m stuck raising a diving premadonna because of you!!!!
17 Nov 2012, 19:17 pm
@CoachPete-47: Lol, good point.
17 Nov 2012, 19:18 pm
@lesiba-45: I agree, look at the Bok team of 1997-1998 would they have accepted 4 point and 11 point wins against teams of this calibre i seriously doubt it, in fact even if they won repeatedly with margines like that the coachs position would have been brought into question. The 1998 Bok team beat Ireland 37-13 and 33-0 both those scores were considered low! the standards of Bok rugby have really dropped. It always amazes me that they can occasionally thrash Australia and beat NZ yet when they go on these tours struggle to beat Scotland and cross the tryline
17 Nov 2012, 19:18 pm
@lesiba-45: Minnows?That’s a bit disrespectful,mate.Other than that ,I agree with your post.
17 Nov 2012, 19:20 pm
@Golden Boy-49:
Ja I think HM has brought to the team the importance of not giving up tries so the style has become that very boring conservative rugby where they will defend and try stay out of their half and hope for a few try scoring chances (from anyone)
17 Nov 2012, 19:20 pm
I watched the Eng Aus game
For the first time in my life I deliberately missed a Bok game
17 Nov 2012, 19:21 pm
Worst bok team of the modern era :
1 Eddie Andrews
2 Bandiso Maku
3 Dean Greyling
4 Quinton Davids
5 Juandre Kruger
6 Davon Raubenheimer
7 Luke Watson
8 Hilton Lobberts
9 Dan Van Zyl
10 Pat Lambie
11 Gus Theron
12 Joggie Muller
13 Juan de Jong
14 Henno Mentz
15 Ricardo Loubcher
17 Nov 2012, 19:21 pm
@Dawn-54:
Ag nie man Dawn
17 Nov 2012, 19:22 pm
@phil72-55:
10 and 13 OUCH !
17 Nov 2012, 19:22 pm
Oh yes.
On purpose.
Aspris.
17 Nov 2012, 19:23 pm
@phil72-55: I don’t recall that team ever playing.
17 Nov 2012, 19:25 pm
a wins a win
planet rugby article
“Springboks coach Heyneke Meyer believes Saturday’s clash with Scotland will be ideal preparations for the 2015 World Cup in England.
Meyer, who has experience of coaching in the Premiership with Leicester Tigers, said although avoiding another loss to Scotland was important, he wants his players to get used to the kind of damp, heavy conditions they can expect to encounter at the global showpiece. ”
defense wins world cups, so Im going to judge meyer on the WC
17 Nov 2012, 19:26 pm
Right now we just there in a group of about six teams
All of us well behind the ABs who are setting the bar , and very high I may say.
17 Nov 2012, 19:27 pm
@Golden Boy-49: Fully agreed. I actually kept switching to the Eng-Aus game as I couldn’t stand the SA one. I know I keep referring back to Malett but he made another brilliant point regarding this. Meyer seems to be so set on winning at all costs, that he doesn’t care about what he is destroying in the process. The damage this dude is doing to our attacking play is freaking unforgivable.
17 Nov 2012, 19:27 pm
@Guns-11: He was all they had available considering SARU waited until the last minute to appoint a coach.
Does he have a long term contract? They won’t get rid of Meyer but I wouldn’t be surprised if the assistants get fired and replaced next year now that SARU has had more time to find better options. Maybe time to swallow their pride and hire a foreigner (and by that I mean kiwi
)
17 Nov 2012, 19:27 pm
@poppa69-60:
Hey HM, Like its not damp and heavy conditions at Newlands ever ?
17 Nov 2012, 19:29 pm
@CoachPete-61: I dont think the ABs are the team they are made out to be, yes they are clearly the best at the moment but its more down to the overall poor quality of teams at the moment. This current AB team is not the strongest by any stretch of the imagination
17 Nov 2012, 19:31 pm
@wnbb-59:
all 15 capped on different occasions…….
17 Nov 2012, 19:31 pm
@dquinn25-65:
I think the result would say different
So I disagree I think both boks and Aussies have digressed
Aussies mainly due to injuries but us mainly due to selections and our game plan
17 Nov 2012, 19:32 pm
58: last week I fell asleep watching the game. This week I was switching between the football and the ‘rugby’. I thought American Football was boring, but this shiiittte takes the cake.
53: I’m all for a great defense, don’t get me wrong. It’s not all running rugby and fancy moves. But these guys are so robotic and predictable at the moment. Players are not allowed to show any initiative at all regardless of the situation. Kicking an up an under with 3 minutes left on the half way line when all we have to do is hold on to the game and close it out. Kicking an up and under with a fractured defense and a 2 man overlap on the halfway line. Just so bloody irritating to watch.
17 Nov 2012, 19:32 pm
@gonzo-63:
How about Mallett He was available?
17 Nov 2012, 19:33 pm
@dquinn25-65: I get sick of this line of “reasoning”
the ABs can only play whats in front of them, and they have beaten teams when not playing well…good teams find ways to win, like the ABs almost did in the 3rd test versus the Aussies..
this world rugby isnt strong at the moment is just a cop out..
17 Nov 2012, 19:35 pm
@Golden Boy-68:
I agree with you let the players play They are all dam good so HM needs to stop his game after game same script and give them some freedom to play
17 Nov 2012, 19:35 pm
In fact England should moer us
Next week
17 Nov 2012, 19:36 pm
@poppa69-70: I agree with you they can only beat who they play, but the standard of teams internationally is not the strongest it has been in the past, there is no doubt about it.
17 Nov 2012, 19:37 pm
@CoachPete-67: I agree here as well even at full strength these tactics would just not work.
17 Nov 2012, 19:37 pm
@poppa69-70:
Yes you are correct
I think it because the international teams are so focused on not wanting to lose or give up too may tries they dont play the attacking play, which the ABs will do at any opportunity
17 Nov 2012, 19:37 pm
Meyer is a dinosaur, CJ can’t scrum and Flip is a walking yellow card.
17 Nov 2012, 19:38 pm
@Dawn-72:
No Dawn they fall in same group as us BORING
17 Nov 2012, 19:39 pm
@kaksioek-76:
At last someone agrees with me about Flip LOL
Hey start Alberts at 4
leave Kruger on bench drop Flip
17 Nov 2012, 19:40 pm
Vrede seems to be on Meyer’s payroll.
17 Nov 2012, 19:40 pm
@dquinn25-73: so do you credit it then to the world cup cycle? is this the reason world rugby “isnt strong right now”? one year after, teams blooding new players etc?
is this what we should expect every year after a WC from now on?
17 Nov 2012, 19:41 pm
@CoachPete-78: Never was someone more appropriately named: Flip.
17 Nov 2012, 19:42 pm
@poppa69-80:
Yeah maybe except for France who could beat you
17 Nov 2012, 19:42 pm
poppa: 70: hey dixhead, sorry to hear about your humorous. Hope you have a speedy recovery.
17 Nov 2012, 19:42 pm
@kaksioek-81:
that yellow is often Flipped
17 Nov 2012, 19:44 pm
@kaksioek-76:
Actually CJ is also a walking yellow
Both on the field at the same time equals a sure 14 man team for 10 min
17 Nov 2012, 19:45 pm
@CoachPete-82: interesting series next year for sure… keen to see how France go against Los Pumas this morning…
@Golden Boy-83: cheers GB…
17 Nov 2012, 19:50 pm
@poppa69-86:
Yes it will be most of the pumas know the french players and style
I think French will win
Who do your ABs play next week
17 Nov 2012, 19:53 pm
@dquinn25-65: I say 19 games unbeaten by the All Blacks says they are a bloody good team. Sentiment is one thing, facts though don’t lie.
17 Nov 2012, 19:55 pm
@digger-88:
Exactly
17 Nov 2012, 19:56 pm
@CoachPete-87: I think its Wales and then finish with England… you guys play Eng next week I think? soften them up for us thanks
17 Nov 2012, 19:56 pm
@digger-88:
1 ABs (by far)
2 France
the rest of the pack Boks , Oz, Pumas, England Scots Wales, Samoa, England.
Italy improving
17 Nov 2012, 19:57 pm
ok Ireland too LOL
17 Nov 2012, 19:58 pm
@poppa69-90:
yes we do
I think after the WC final they should have penciled in You guys to Play France
Dont you think?
17 Nov 2012, 20:00 pm
@CoachPete-93:
Would have been a sold out game right away
and would have been the best game to watch of all the november tests by far
17 Nov 2012, 20:03 pm
@CoachPete-69: Would he agree to assisting? I was under the impression he said he wants to be head coach or nothing at all.
17 Nov 2012, 20:04 pm
@CoachPete-93: yeah agree, would have been one hell of a rematch…
but arent these tours decided a few years in advance?
17 Nov 2012, 20:09 pm
@poppa69-96:
Yes most likely the case,
maybe next year
@gonzo-95: As head coach he would not be an assistant to HM They would kill each other
17 Nov 2012, 20:10 pm
phil, ur a poenanie of a ppooeess almost as big a one as Heyneke meyer…
lambie is 20 times the player that morne steyn can ever be…
to have him and juan de jong in the worst bok team ever is testimony to your stupidity…
lets focus on the real problem… the idiotic coach and his loyalty to not let go of the last few bull in the team…
Kirchener is a discrace for and has the creativity of a blind ****** in an all *** bar… only two people believes he should still be in the Bok team, Heyneke the clown and Zane’s mum… thats it, even his dad had to admit he is useless
Francois Hougaard has had shocking after shocking game, and he aint a wing, something everyone in SA except heyneke the clown knows…
Flip vd merwe’s brainfart was not quite as bad as Dean the fuknut greyling, but oozes stupidity, almost as much as Phil’s postings itself…
would love tghis team with the player we have over there… obviously some other player would have been nice to have there…
15 taute
14 pieterson
13 de jong
12 jean
11 mvovo
10 lambie
9 pienaar
8 alberts
7 marcell
6 Flo the man
5 juandre
4 etzebeth
3 jannie
2 brits
1 heinke
16 adriaan
17 mujati
18 guthro
19 duane
20 vd merwe franco
21 hougaard
22 elton
23 rhule
17 Nov 2012, 20:16 pm
i am so sick and tired of all the negativity on this site
i really am
you people need to sort yourselves out
17 Nov 2012, 20:17 pm
@big g-98:
Good team
I would start Alberts at 4 drop kruger to bench and start coetzee at 7
17 Nov 2012, 20:19 pm
well this a game neither team wanted to win…
the Boks didn’t want the ball and kept kicking it back to Scots who hardly looked like scoring…
so in the second half the Boks tried a different strategy to help the Scots win and kept giving the Scots penalties… but the Scots refused to take the points from the Boks and kept going for the line-out..
had the Scots taken all their penalties… (and no reason to believe they wouldn’t have kept getting them because they kept us pinned in our 22 for most of the half) they would have won the game…
but they didn’t want to…
neither did the Boks…
seems like the Boks lost the game of hot-potatoe and were got the win by default… I could swear I saw Heyneke saying to Robinson afterwards… “Jaaaaa Andy… your team was handy today and you imposed the win upon us… congratulations!”
is this what Bok rugby has become..? does Heyneke have absolutely no obligation at all to TRY and entertain the people who ultimately pay his salary by supporting the Boks ?
Heyneke is as bereft of rugby creativity and Mitt Romney is of international diplomacy…
17 Nov 2012, 20:22 pm
@ufo-101: Good post.Now don’t start me off with all those Romney.I keep binders full of them just for HG.
17 Nov 2012, 20:23 pm
@wnbb-102: Romney jokes
17 Nov 2012, 20:25 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-99: Meyer is hondkak – face it.
17 Nov 2012, 20:25 pm
so a win is a win and we’ll take it… is supposed to satisfy us…? absolutebullshit…
Heyneke has forgotten everything about what rugby is supposed to be… he should go and coach soccer…
to remind Heyneke of the legend of William Webb Ellis and the creation/invention of rugby in 1823…
the Rugby schoolboy, Webb Ellis who so was bored with the slow pace of a football game that he picked up the ball and RAN with it…!!!
but Heyneke wants to be remembered as an innovator and pioneer… he wants to invent a better mousetrap… reinvent the wheel… and improve on the great game of rugby… so instead of doing what every rugby player has done since Webb Ellis… Heyneke channels Dr Emmett Brown and believes the direction rugby should be going is Back to the Future… “the pace of rugby is too fast for me… my heart can’t take it… and I can’t hide my angst in the Situation Room… I’ve had an epiphany… I’ve decided that we must slow it down… instead of running with the ball as the silly boy William Webb Ellis did… let me invent a new game by just simply kicking the ball…? we can call it kickball… or skopdiekan… we have the skills for such a game… and if that is still too fast we can then just hold the ball and run into other players… we can call it holdball… or skopinnieballes…
the springboks will be the world champions of skopdiekan (or skopinnieballes)… because we’ll have internal tours and the springboks can play south africa ‘A’ and south africa POC and south africa soccer…
so be patient everyone… we are still developing our game… and can’t expect to beat south ‘A’, POC or soccer just yet…
but we will… by the time the world cup of skopdiekan comes we will have experienced players… and then you can judge my new game…!!
17 Nov 2012, 20:26 pm
A few observations after this game:
1. Morne Steyn executes Meyer’s gameplan better than Lambie can.
2. CJ van Der Linde is the king of ‘slipping the bind’ at scrum time, and has been for his entire career. Why can the coaches not see this?
3. The one break De Jongh took was when he had a two man overlap on the outside. What should have been a try on the outside, turned into him wasting the opportunity by breaking inside and running back into traffic.
4. Kirchner is a solid defensive fullback and I doubt Taute would have done better in these circumstances.
5. I’m damn glad it wasn’t Elton Jantjies coming on when we were under pressure in the last 20 minutes.
Imagine this team with Bismark, Beast, Bekker, Burger, Spies, Du Preez, Frans Steyn and Habana back in the mix.
17 Nov 2012, 20:26 pm
I dont know if its because rugby has become an unattractive game or the standard (except for NZ) around the world has dropped or if its just because the Boks are so piss poor, but there seem to be lots of people standing around the braai these days instead of watching the rugby. It might be age or the fact that I put on the best braai south of the Vaal river but it is certainly worrying.
17 Nov 2012, 20:27 pm
@wnbb-102:
in your own personal opinion of course…!!
17 Nov 2012, 20:33 pm
Why don’t we use our backs to attack. Looked like Pat was under instructions to kick it, boring
17 Nov 2012, 20:33 pm
@Tacitus-106:
Whose play will burger take?
And Spies ?? Forget it
17 Nov 2012, 20:34 pm
flyhalf pecking order as it stands:
goosen
morne
elton (interchangeable with pat)
pat (interchageable with elton)
fouche
pollard (only because he’s 18 and needs protecting)
17 Nov 2012, 20:35 pm
@nikoli-109:
He is yes
If he ignors HM’s instructions and runs the ball and they lose
Lambie will never play under HM again
So he has to play to his instructions
17 Nov 2012, 20:35 pm
I really really really farken tried to give HM the benefit of the doubt, But I just dont see any growth or improvement……if he wants to stay on he has to being in some assistants/ consultants….the game plan is killing us……
17 Nov 2012, 20:35 pm
@poppa69-90: Holding up paL?
17 Nov 2012, 20:36 pm
@Tacitus-106: @CoachPete-91: How about trying to be at least slightly objective.
1. Is Meyer’s game plan the right game plane, should he not be working to the strengths of the best teams in SA with the best players we have?
2. De Jong did nothing wrong, held his on on defence and from the only ball he got was able to step a couple of people and make some ground. You of course choose to see this incident in a manner that says Meyer was right all along to leave him out. You do not point out where any bok managed to even step a Scottish player or even make an offload.
3. Talking of off loads I only saw Louw try off load and our friend the scrum half playing wing couldn’t hold onto the ball. I don’t see you listing that.
17 Nov 2012, 20:37 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-111:
We miss the aggression of Bakkies and Bismark big time
Imagine Bakkies and Estabeth?
We need a few exciting centers too
Hougaard is no wing
Taute should be give a shot at 15
17 Nov 2012, 20:37 pm
Lambie has under delivered….
17 Nov 2012, 20:38 pm
@digger-115: Appologies CoachPete, that was purely for Tac
17 Nov 2012, 20:38 pm
@digger-115:
I think we need to fire van Graan and Loubscher and get a proper attack coach in the mix.
But under Meyer at least our team is dominating the collisions, our defense has tightened up and our mauls are looking great.
The platform is layed. The attacking evolution can be the goal of Year 2.
17 Nov 2012, 20:39 pm
@sporto-107:
Agree, however one must concede that the emphasis on defense and structures surrounding the defenses does make it harder for sides to score many creative tries.
That’s why we should at least try to utilize quick turnover ball better, but our mindset has been so indoctrinated that kicking is the first, second and third option
17 Nov 2012, 20:39 pm
@digger-115:
One huge problem is he is selfish Very Selfish
He needs to make unselfish decisions and read the game when there is a player in a better position than he is to advance the ball.
17 Nov 2012, 20:40 pm
@digger-118:
Thats ok
17 Nov 2012, 20:40 pm
@Tacitus-106:
agreed on kirchener although i do wish he was able to break the defensive line a little more often on attack before going to ground and also some link play, to put another backline player away, when running the ball up.
taute should get the last 20 min of the england game at fb, if only for the purpose of testing him.
i would start morne and give pat the last 20 or 30 minutes against england. he really has underwhelmed so far and is nothing, nothing like goosen.
17 Nov 2012, 20:40 pm
@CoachPete-100: Coetzee immense when he came on.Last week too.Priveleged to have him as substitute for Alberts
17 Nov 2012, 20:41 pm
I do not think we are in us much trouble as all of us think. We have always had a very strong Starting 15 and our second stringers have always been dodgy!
Some players not available at the moment due to injury or club commitments
Coenie Oosthuizen
Bismarck du Plessis
Tendai Mtawarira
Bakkies Botha/ Danie Rossouw
Andries Bekker
Schalk Burger /Heinrich Brüssow/ Deon Stegmann
Juan Smith/ Jacques Potgieter
Pierre Spies/ Ryan Kankowski
Fourie du Preez
Johan Goosen
Wynand Olivier
Jaque Fourie
Bryan Habana
Francois Steyn
Lambie, Juandre, De Jong, and a few others does not belong in Test Rugby!!!
17 Nov 2012, 20:42 pm
@ryecatcher-124:
Yes agree But in the slower conditions would we not benefit with Alberts as a ball carrying lock and add Coetzee at 7 ?
Just a thought
17 Nov 2012, 20:43 pm
@Tacitus-119: I guess we need to keep some faith. We have been through the Strueli experience though, where we kept thinking things would improve with not much payback for our faith.
A friend of mine’s email signature reads, “Hope is not a strategy”.
17 Nov 2012, 20:43 pm
@phil72-125:
You a bulls fan ?
WO ??
Spies?
17 Nov 2012, 20:44 pm
@phil72-125:
JF for sure we miss him big time
17 Nov 2012, 20:45 pm
@phil72-125:
etzebeth doesn’t belong it test rugby…???
jaaaaaaaa…
okay…
17 Nov 2012, 20:45 pm
@digger-127:
I hope I will become a Millionaire
17 Nov 2012, 20:45 pm
@CoachPete-121: I think none of our players actually know what an off load is, apart from a few from the Sharks. So JDJ is just like any other player in SA but at least with him there is a chance he will create some magic.
17 Nov 2012, 20:46 pm
@ryecatcher-114: yes thanks boet…
17 Nov 2012, 20:46 pm
@CoachPete-126: Good.Our other lock
is medocre
17 Nov 2012, 20:46 pm
@ufo-130:
Etsebeth does belong, but he is available… cant include him in the list
17 Nov 2012, 20:47 pm
@ufo-130:
hey UFO howzit
Actually to Phil’s defense he never mentioned Etzebeth
17 Nov 2012, 20:48 pm
@CoachPete-131: I hope one day we score a try where we pass the ball more than 4 times
17 Nov 2012, 20:48 pm
We had one blow out game against the All Blacks in Joburg. In every other game, we never lost by more than 7 points.
This Bok team is tough to beat. We don’t win by big margins and we don’t lose by big margins.
And this in the first year in charge. Once the guys grow together as a team we will be very, very good.
17 Nov 2012, 20:49 pm
@CoachPete-116:
yes, would love to see bakkies back in the mix considering he is fully fit. bismarck, of course, is injured so there’s not much to do other than wait on him, though he certainly is better than strauss.
but having said that, strauss had a great game today and scored not only a driving maul try but a farking interception try too haha.
must say i was very pleased with gurthro’s first performance back for the boks.
eztebeth has to learn to clean out at rucks more like a number 4 or should shift to 5. would give taute 20-30 min at fb. yes, we need a few centers..?. other than frans or the sharks kid i dunno..?..
17 Nov 2012, 20:49 pm
@digger-132:
yes very true especially our forwards unlike the ABs where they all know how to off load
But a center playing international rugby needs to be able to draw and off load even half gap off loads etc
Like C Smith (ABS)
17 Nov 2012, 20:49 pm
doesn’t matter what players we have…
if heyneke simply wants to kick the ball for 20 minutes and defend for 60 we’re never gonna be a force in rugby…
i mean heyneke telling raymond rhule that he must improve his kicking…??? the kid has had a great season with his speed and stepping… but heyneke believes it is more important for him to kick the ball better…??
17 Nov 2012, 20:50 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-139:
Hes young Bakkies would teach him
17 Nov 2012, 20:50 pm
@grant10-117:
thank you… some honest objectiveness from you.
17 Nov 2012, 20:52 pm
@phil72-135:
misread your post… my bad… apologies…
@CoachPete-136:
hey coach… always good bud… you…?
but not very inspired by springbok rugby at the moment…
17 Nov 2012, 20:52 pm
@phil72-125: Lambie and JDJ played for the two teams that made the Super 15 semi finals, not to mention the Currie cup final. Not sure what logic you used to arrive at the conclusion that two players that played for two of the best teams in SA should not be playing test rugby. Should we go look at the Vodacom cup winners for playes?
17 Nov 2012, 20:53 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-139: Read interview with Bis.To me (eternal pessimist) did not sound too encouraging
17 Nov 2012, 20:53 pm
@ufo-141:
Really?
Under Heyneke’s style of play we should have beaten the All Blacks in NZ in his first year in charge, and have only lost to the All Blacks and are even on wins against the Aussies.
We are already a force in rugby, being the 2nd ranked team in the world. And this before Heyneke’s plan is even started to show dividends.
You’re being a bit melodramatic there, wouldn’t you say?
17 Nov 2012, 20:53 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-143: what would you know about “honest objectiveness”?
17 Nov 2012, 20:54 pm
@Tacitus-138: Lets hope so! Lots of work to be done on the scrummaging next week. We really need a solid second choice to Junnie and Beast. I think Guthro was just off his mark today and possibly still an itchy injured rib. He’s a tall monster needs to get lower in scrums and hang on to tackles finished players off.
17 Nov 2012, 20:55 pm
@ufo-141: Hi ufo.Do,nt mind saying it..
Disappointed
17 Nov 2012, 20:55 pm
@digger-145:
We all know that they are just filling the gap until the real contenders are back in the picture again…. but us you stated they are indeed very good super rugby players!
17 Nov 2012, 20:56 pm
would have liked to have seen Taute come on in last 20/30 for Kirtchner, he is more physical and likes to run the ball and he can break the gain line more affectively in a tight game I think. Will not know until see him at 15. Kitchner needs to stop kicking possession away when the situation does NOT need it.
17 Nov 2012, 20:56 pm
@ufo-144:
I m good but also a bit disappointed
Bit I do see that we are missing a number of good players, and a few better choices in a few places
My worry is our very predictable game plan and i dont have to explain it
We have a great defense and we are always looked upon as a team that can beat any side
17 Nov 2012, 20:56 pm
@Guns-149: Scrum was A.Ok till the advent of CJ
17 Nov 2012, 20:57 pm
@Guns-149:
CJ van der Linde must never come close to a Bok scrum again. He is a poor scrummagers.
Gruthro was charging in for tackles today, but being bounced off all the time. Hopefully it was due to him carrying an injury, but he wasn’t good in my view. But we know what he has to offer when in form.
We need Coenie, Beast, Jannie and Gurhtro as our 4 permanent front rankers.
17 Nov 2012, 20:57 pm
Does anybody have Bambies stats? How many Kicked, passed and how many meters gained?
17 Nov 2012, 20:58 pm
@ryecatcher-146:
not encouraging wrt his injury?
@poppa69-148:
i could tell you i am an honest and forthright man but this would be a subjective opinion… no matter how objectively understood…
17 Nov 2012, 20:59 pm
i think it’s wrong to blame the players though…
i didn;t blame morne when he was struggling… i blame heyneke for persisting with during his crisis of confidence…
lambie and de jong are playing to instructions with no leeway to express themselves creatively… so how are they too blame…
because de jong didn’t score off the only good break he got he had a bad game…??? why are guys like lambie and de jong expected to create and /or score tries every time they touch the ball and if they don’t they are perceived to have failed… they both know that their careers are on the line and they will not get th needless opportunities meyer has given others… so are under waaay more sever pressure than they need to be… which is just very bad man management form meyer…
if meyer is honurable he will pick them both next week again… but I bet you now he won’t pick them…
17 Nov 2012, 21:00 pm
What bothers me most is the poor execution of our kicking game, which is supposedly what we are practicing all the time. We should be on top of our game in this department, but we’re not.
So the value of the kicking game is getting undue criticism because it is not the gameplan itself that is so poor, rather the execution thereor.
Lambie’s kicks were not going far enough, and our regathers are poor. We should be much better at this, given that it’s our primary game.
17 Nov 2012, 21:00 pm
@phil72-156: What does it matter?
Playing to HM game plan…
17 Nov 2012, 21:00 pm
@ufo-158:
Yeah I am thinking he will pick Steyn and Taute at 13
17 Nov 2012, 21:00 pm
@phil72-151: I guess we shouldn’t worry at all then until all the “real contenders” are back. Heck why even play matches without the real contenders. Why even debate the result of a test match when we know the “real contenders” were not playing. What is the point then, by your logic do tell.
17 Nov 2012, 21:01 pm
@Guns-149:
he certainly had murray number at scrumtime and only got bounced about two times.
17 Nov 2012, 21:01 pm
I think we should pick Morne for the England game.
Our attacking game looked a lot better against England at the beginning of the year (with Morne at flyhalf) than it has on tour so far.
17 Nov 2012, 21:02 pm
@ufo-158: i blame Ricardo for backline moves not coming off. i blame van Graan for our way of attack as Van Graan is the attack coach. i blame HM for selecting both of them!
17 Nov 2012, 21:02 pm
@kaksioek-104:
disagree.
17 Nov 2012, 21:02 pm
@Tacitus-159:
Yes very true
When I coach I tell my players if you kick it better be a good kick with good chases, or dont kick at all, because you just giving away possession
17 Nov 2012, 21:03 pm
I must admit that I believed we were going to lose today, so while I’m happy we won, that was some really poor rugby… needed Chris Farley to score both our tries today, interesting that.
17 Nov 2012, 21:03 pm
@digger-162:
The logic is that their is no crisis as some of us are trying to motivate….. With the bulk of the team back next year it will be a completely different story!
17 Nov 2012, 21:04 pm
@phil72-125:
yip
with all those players back we could easily put together two world class teams.
17 Nov 2012, 21:04 pm
@Tacitus-164: HM probably will, I would be putting Lambie at 12 personally..JDV has become another Smit and is not contributing to the Bok team…Lambie imho would make a great 2nd 5/8th..
17 Nov 2012, 21:04 pm
@Tacitus-164:
I dont think we should pick Morne He is not our future
Either try Elton or stick with lambie
Try Taute at 15 he has always mentioned that now try it
I would also give De Jonge another shot and Mvovo too
Hougaard is not progression at wing
17 Nov 2012, 21:05 pm
Nothing is wrong with the backline, its the instructions that’s wrong!Plumtree let’s Lambie play his natural game,that’s why he always performs for the Sharks..Heyneke does the opposite,that’s why he doesn’t perform for the Boks.
17 Nov 2012, 21:05 pm
Can someone give me a definitive overview of our results on the last 5 end of year tours.
While I recall some bad losses against teams we expected to beat each year, I can’t actually recall exactly when and against whom these losses occurred.
What I’m trying to ascertain is when last we went unbeated on an end of year tour.
17 Nov 2012, 21:05 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-157: Thats it Bakkies.Hope its nit a Juan Smith type injury.But as I said.
Eternal pessimist
17 Nov 2012, 21:06 pm
@Tacitus-174:
Bad typing on a Saturday night -for obvious reasons. Unbeated should of course be unbeaten. Hehe.
17 Nov 2012, 21:07 pm
@Jatman-173: great post
17 Nov 2012, 21:08 pm
@poppa69-171:
i sadi that earlier tonight during the game.
to my mind he’s either a center or a fb, a flyhalf (or at least the type the boks need) he cettainly aint.
17 Nov 2012, 21:09 pm
@phil72-169: I get you, all is going to be fine next year or perhaps at the World Cup?
17 Nov 2012, 21:09 pm
@Tacitus-147:
“we should have beaten new zealand” … a sense of entitlement much…?
but yes… we SHOULD have beaten england in the third game… and we SHOULD have beaten the argies in argie… that’s what we SHOULD have done…
not at all melodramatic tac… perhaps you are being overly defensive of the coach because of your statements about him earlier in the year…?
i supported him 100 percent and said so when he was appointed… but his contradictory pronouncements and selections have eroded my confidence in and respect for the man…
as in my earlier post… the very basis… the heart and soul of rugby… its raison d’etre… is to RUN WITH BALL IN HAND…
heyneke’s version is to kick the ball and chase it or hold it and run into people…
quite simply heyneke’s version is NOT rugby as it should be played…
until meyer allows and empowers the players to do that… the blame can only be placed in heyneke’s shoes…
17 Nov 2012, 21:10 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-178: Totally agree!
17 Nov 2012, 21:11 pm
@Jatman-173:
funny plumtree prefered the frenchie to play his natural game instead of lambie playing his though. also, he was poor in both finals.
@ryecatcher-175:
oh ok
fingers crossed then.
17 Nov 2012, 21:11 pm
@ryecatcher-150:
hey rye…
yeah… this is some of the most sterile, boring rugby i have ever seen from the springboks…
a great shame for such a rugby-proud nation…
17 Nov 2012, 21:12 pm
@ufo-180:
Disagree with your view of the basis of rugby.
The basis of rugby in the beginning was in fact to get chances to kick at goal.
In fact, tries were only called “tries”because it gave you an opportunity to have a “try”at a goal kick.
So the conversion was actually the point of the try, not the touchdown itself.
The point of rugby is winning by whatever means possible and not this running with the ball concept that many seem to believe in.
17 Nov 2012, 21:13 pm
Personally I cant wait for a fully fit Goosen …
17 Nov 2012, 21:15 pm
@digger-179:
Our rugby is much healthier that you think…
Like i said we are mainly playing with second choice and sometimes 3rd choice players in their respective positions at the moment… Whenever other coaches tried this we mainly lost against other first tear test nations… we are winning with our b team at the moment!
17 Nov 2012, 21:16 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-182: lambie was back from injury for the S15 final so you arent really showing honest objectiveness there.. all players are rusty coming back from injury..
12 is imo the perfect position for Lambie…has the distribution skills, is brave on defense and has the right instinct for the position… also adds an extra kicking option, I see him as very similar to Mauger for the ABs skill wise.,.
17 Nov 2012, 21:16 pm
Anyone see this? the plot thickens.
John Mitchell is set to join Sale “in the next 48 to 72 hours”, according to Sharks chief executive Steve Diamond.
17 Nov 2012, 21:16 pm
@grant10-185:
agreed.
from the bit we’ve seen so far and looking at this bok team, i can only think he will help take them to a whole new level when fully fit but will benefit as much from the team (especially the forwards) aiding his game.
17 Nov 2012, 21:16 pm
@bangkok-bok-181:
yip
17 Nov 2012, 21:17 pm
@poppa69-187: I take my hat off to you for a decent post without vulgar baiting. Somethihgn positive. An astute observation. Thanks
17 Nov 2012, 21:18 pm
this Bok team is fear filled….strait jacketed…..not cool to watch anymore….I really thought HM would take Boks to a new level…..instead it has become staid, boring and I am not sure players are buying in …..2013 will be interesting ..
17 Nov 2012, 21:19 pm
I think that HM, much like with his Bulls teams is building a dominant powerful pack to to control the game up front and have our 9 and 10 push the ball forward with kicks , so we play in other teams half .Then as our pack wears down the opposition the gaps start to appear maybe close to rucks or out wide in the centers Add solid defense to all of that
I dont think he has got the pack he has wanted yet but its getting there. and he has had the injuries
Maybe adding F steyn and and tauta at 15
So it may bet a lot better
17 Nov 2012, 21:19 pm
@poppa69-187:
well ok, perhaps plum should take some of the blame for playing him in the final, but he certainly takes all the blame for other final.
yes agreed, 12 would be the best position for him and if too small for meyer’s liking then 15.
17 Nov 2012, 21:19 pm
@CoachPete-153:
yeah bud…
we all know….
but i don’t think we should be excusing players out injured… fact is we’ve got to play with the players available… every game… history does not record how many players were out injured…
heyneke said when he started that his goal would be to win every game… now suddenly it is all about developing for the next world cup… i think he has gone back on his word… i think he has betrayed springbok rugby and the supporters…
and as i’ve always said… whether for the boks or wp/stormers… it is indeed about how we play the game… i want to see us play great, inventive, creative, RUNNING rugby… then if we lose to a team that does that better than us the loss is slightly easier to accept…
but i can’t even accept winning when playing such dour, spiritless, boring, stale, sterile rugby…
it’s just not rugby… seriously…
17 Nov 2012, 21:20 pm
@grant10-185:
Yes a greed I worry he is fragile and injury prone
17 Nov 2012, 21:20 pm
@papaown-165:
exactly…
17 Nov 2012, 21:20 pm
@Slumtown-188:
wow!
can somebody say ‘curveball’…?..
17 Nov 2012, 21:21 pm
Culture is driven from the top down
The coach is a square plug in a round hole
The coach is trying to force round plugs into his square holes … Lambie, De Jong, Daniels, etc
Hence good players are being made to look bad by the coach
The irony of all the criticism against Kirchner, in the context of the game, he has been one of the top players this test season
The problem is at the top … H. Meyer
17 Nov 2012, 21:22 pm
15 Taute
14 JP
13 JF
12 Steym
11 Habana
10 Goosen
9 Pienaar (for now)
17 Nov 2012, 21:23 pm
@ufo-195:
7 wins 3 losses and 2 draws…?…
and you’re not happy.
expect next year to show huge improvement on creative play.
17 Nov 2012, 21:25 pm
@phil72-186: not quite
1 Gurthro (should be on a par with Beast)
3 Jannie is our best TH at present till they get Mujati sorted out
4 Etzebeth is the premiere 4
6 Flouw is the best for that position
7 Alberts is probably our best 7 except possibly for Juan Smith if he ever comes back and regains the form he used to have
8 Vermeulen certainly not worse than Spies
9 Pienaar – unfortunately the best 9 we have at present – not sure we will se Fourie du Preez back
10 Lambie Goosen – verdicts out Goosen breaks down a lot
14 JP Pietersen is our premiere 14
9 out of 15 of our A team players
Granted we have some very good players out of action at present
1 Beast/ 2 Bismarck/ 3 Mujati (if they can sort him out)/ 4 possible return of Bakkies/ 5 Andries Becker/ 6 Brussouw/ Burger and Kolisi all possibles for the future/ 7 Juan Smith 8/ Spies/ Kanko/ 9 slim possibility of a return by Fourie du preez/ 10 Goosen (but unproven still)/ 11 Habana/ 12 Frans Steyn/ and possibly Jan Serfontein after next years Super season/ 13 Jacques Fourie/ and maybe future inclusion of players like Ebersohn or Jordaan/ 14 Aplon not being utilised at present
17 Nov 2012, 21:26 pm
Francios Pienaar coined the perfect word past Thursday on telly: SPORTAINMENT
Thats what modern day sport is
This sh*t being dished up has no place in modern sport
Folk literally change the channel or move onto numerous other forms of entainment
The days of rukbie being part of volk and vaderland are far gone
Produce that which entertains and sells or step down if you cant
At least Coach Mo was darn funny
17 Nov 2012, 21:26 pm
@Tacitus-184:
you’re being disingenuous Tac…
but you can’t rewrite history to suite yourself…or heyneke
how did they get the ball over the line to score and earn the try attempt at goal…?
the basis of rugby was RUNNING WITH BALL IN HAND to earn a try at goals… they did not kick the ball over the line to earn a try at goals now did they…?
but you know that… and are simply trying spinning your top for heyneke…
17 Nov 2012, 21:26 pm
We lost 3 games this season… 2 against the number 1 ranked and 1 against the then the number 2 ranked. And we are now 2nd ranked team…… How bad has this season been? This is a game between 2 teams… Deal with it, we will loose every now and then!
17 Nov 2012, 21:27 pm
@Slumtown-191: sweet as
17 Nov 2012, 21:27 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-201:
If those 2 draws had been 1 point wins this would have been an exceptional first season in charge. Now it is merely an average one.
Certainly not cause for all the negativity around here. Perspective is sorely lacking among the critics.
17 Nov 2012, 21:29 pm
@poppa69-206:
17 Nov 2012, 21:30 pm
@Slumtown-202:
I differ with you slightly, but out of the 23 I would suggest we have at least 10-15 not available, Who the coach would select if all available is pure speculation. Sure next year we would have a better prospective on the matter?
17 Nov 2012, 21:30 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-201:
why do we have to wait for next year…?
when he was appointed heyeke said EVRY game was vital.. he never said it would only be good enough next year… or at the world cup… so why the backtracking…???
does that mean all our players are really useless and skill-less.. or heyneke is just not able to to coach complete rugby and has to single-task and focus on one aspect of rugby per year…?
17 Nov 2012, 21:32 pm
A player is happy and performs well when he has self-confidence,that comes from trust from the coach..some players are restricted to use their capabilities and that lowers their self confidence and it reflects on the field!
17 Nov 2012, 21:34 pm
@phil72-209: yep definitely – I do think when we have our first rate players back we will be a lot stronger and there is going to be some stern competion for some positions – but the main issues are still poor selections (such as CJ/ Juandre/ Jean de Villiers/ Houghaard and Kirchener), poor tactics and forcing naturally good players to play a boring one dimensional game and finally my main issues in the backline the continued selection of Jean de Villiers and Kirchener in particular as Jean kills all attacking ball and Kirchener has no idea how to counter attack.
17 Nov 2012, 21:37 pm
CJ is not even 1st choice prop for the Lions, yet makes the team ahead of his Lions team mates.
Guthro slips 3 consecutive tackles because he doesn’t use his arms and guys spin out of the hit.
Lambie is either playing under such stifling orders, or doesn’t have the ability to control or take control of the game from the flyhalf posotion. And this against poor opposition – Scots and Irish not exactly awe-inspiring at the moment.
JDV said in post-match interview that they did not play in the right field-positions in the second half. I suppose that would mean in the Scottish half. Then why do we insist on kicking box kicks and up and unders in our own half which are 50/50 balls. Why not use deep kick- in from our 22 meter or kick dep into the corners and use our “brutal” defense to push up and trap them in their own half.
HM will certainly be tempted to give Morne a run against England. And if he half performs, we’ll be back to seeing Morne clogging up no 10 for the next few test match.
Taute’s just as good defensively as NikNaks at fullback, and gives you something on the counter-attack.
Jantjies deserves another go at flyhalf.
If they can get Juandre to actually jump as well as run the line-outs, he’ll be OK. Can’t recall him taking one ball today.
Ricardo Laubscher and Johan v Graan great backline coaches ……. LOL. What were they practising all week, high kick and charge?
17 Nov 2012, 21:38 pm
Tac… I will always support the Boks…
coaches come and coaches go and i’ve ‘served’ and supported under too many to count now… i supported the boks when streuli was coach… my support will not waiver…
but yes… i am extremely disappointed with the sterile style of rugby being produced under this coach…
i hope for all our sakes things do come right miraculously… and you can come on here and say you told me so…
but the fact is i am not seeing ANY improvement at all… the ABs… the best team in the world… blasted scotland out of their kilts…
we, the second ‘best’ RANKED nation… would have lost if the scots had taken their kicks at goal… and yes they way they kept us pinned in our 22 in the second half I have no doubt they would have got back down there to pressure us into more penalties…
had they got their penalties we would have lost…
how is it acceptable for the second RANKED nation to only win a game against they 9th or 10th nation because they eschewed their kicks at goal because they thought they could score from lineouts…??
how is that acceptable…?
17 Nov 2012, 21:40 pm
@Tacitus-207:
perspective sorely lacking among the praise singers too…
17 Nov 2012, 21:40 pm
Naas and Nick Mallet were the only guys making sense in the Supersport studio. Sounded like Matthew Proudfoot and Victor Matfield ggot the same interview script as the Boks for their post match interviews, or maybe they didn’t want to say anything negative about HM for fear of not getting a job on his coaching team.
17 Nov 2012, 21:41 pm
I’ll rather watch NZ and France if I need rugby entertainment …and SA if I want to torture myself.Heyneke calls it an ugly win!!He is well on his way to surpass Straeuli as the worst Bok coach ever.
17 Nov 2012, 21:41 pm
anyway… vented my frustration..
thanks for the shoulders to cry on…!!
now to watch the french/argies…
cheers all
17 Nov 2012, 21:44 pm
UFO: a win is usually acceptable, but the play not necessarily so
17 Nov 2012, 21:46 pm
CJ folded like a house of cards three times out of the last four scrums.He dropped Cilliers for a player that’s derided by Leinster fans as a lazy and kuk player.They had a farking laugh when they heard CJ was coming over.
17 Nov 2012, 21:47 pm
Pdv ‘s lost to scorland… Well done heineke… 11 point win… Glad you showed the cape town tikkoppe how kak jdj is
17 Nov 2012, 21:51 pm
JP Pietersen didn’t get the ball once from a backline move. Excuse – the Scots were using a rush defence. So, one of our primary attacking runners and line-breakers able to take on the big defenders are neutralised in one fell sweep. How about bringing him in between Lambie and the inside centre, for real or as a decoy runner. Instead JDV is the go to guy and if that was blocked, Lambie tried to force the gap and got smashed by the forwards. Even JP at fullback and anyone else on the wing is better than Kirschner.
17 Nov 2012, 21:51 pm
quick last post…
if the sharks can play such awesome total rugby under plumtree… why can’t the springboks do the same under meyer…? plumtree doesn’t have all the boks available to him… (yes, he has a lot of them) but meyer can pick anyone he wants to… and we have so many excellent players…
so why can’t the boks play the entertaining running power clever rugby the sharks are playing…??
maybe plumtree should take over the boks…?
or maybe we should actually play the whole sharks team as the boks…?
seriously…
17 Nov 2012, 21:52 pm
@Tacitus-207:
i can only imagine what they would have been saying if the coach was instead mallet and it was he who achieved 7 wins 3 losses and 2 draws.
@ufo-210:
of course every game is vital. believe me, no one feels as uncomfortable with the seasons results as heyneke does. we can be sure he will seek to improve on what has been an ‘ok’ first year.
of course you take no cognisance of the fact he has had to rebuild a bok team literally from scratch, post PDV. as well the huge number of injuries to otherwise first team players.
to put it into perspective, australia have won 7 lost 5 and drawn 1 so far this year (correct me if i’m wrong).
17 Nov 2012, 21:53 pm
@nikoli-219:
when the great scorer comes to write against your name…
he writes not that you won or lost…
but how you played the game…!!
yes, old fashioned…
but still very important to me…
.
.
out
17 Nov 2012, 21:53 pm
Suffer_guy, spoken like a true Blue Bull, suppose you want Meisiekind back!
17 Nov 2012, 21:55 pm
@JJSlabbert-226:
Not a WO fan!!!!!!!!!!!! But over JDJ…….. any day of the week!
17 Nov 2012, 21:56 pm
Meisielind is a jdj killer look at the history… Jdj maybe more talented… But for some reason he pisses his pants when playing wo…. He gangnum style straight to hospital
17 Nov 2012, 21:57 pm
2 years ago pdv’s boks lost to scotland… Now we win by11 and everyone wants pdv to replace heyneke…. Crazy… But its only the soccer supporters who has a problem with heyneke
17 Nov 2012, 21:57 pm
@Tacitus-184:
Tacitus….if a team wants to play consistent winning rugby, they have to be a number of things..a jack of all trades and a master of them all..neglecting an important component of the game,”not this running with the ball concept” will inevitably lead your team to plateau and unable to break through say the 80% winning percentage.
17 Nov 2012, 22:01 pm
UFO and when the fervent fan judges you he not only expects you to win but to do so beautifully & majestically…
17 Nov 2012, 22:02 pm
@ufo-214: YOU know what they say.
To get to number 2 is the easy part. Staying number two is the hard part.
17 Nov 2012, 22:03 pm
@phil72-205: lose or loose? hmmmm
17 Nov 2012, 22:05 pm
lovely try
great rugby
17 Nov 2012, 22:05 pm
Lol! And Argies score.
17 Nov 2012, 22:06 pm
Go my team!
17 Nov 2012, 22:07 pm
France vs Argentina after 5 minutes, more running the ball and players in gaps than our last 10 tests.
Hope Meyer and Ricardo use their PVR’s
17 Nov 2012, 22:07 pm
Besides. Give Scotland a gap.
an all that. Vaste vyf vaste ses.
17 Nov 2012, 22:09 pm
Aaaah the freedom of running.
Lovely to watch
17 Nov 2012, 22:10 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-234: Ja, it’s just like watching the Boks
17 Nov 2012, 22:12 pm
there already more passing and interplay by these 2 teams back lines in the first 5 minutes than Boks produced in 160 minutes of rugby on this tour under this inane idiotic dumb fck moron backward thinking coward of a dead end rugby coach.
Boks are sterile backward f’ng imbeciles plying this archaic garbage that this HM morose idiot is force feeding down this nations throat. Get the dunce out before we suffocate ourselves with more of this inept bloody boredom.
17 Nov 2012, 22:13 pm
At-least no 1.7m 75 kg midgets on the park tonight……
17 Nov 2012, 22:14 pm
typical french inconsistency/unpredictability
the physaicality from last week no to be seen
17 Nov 2012, 22:15 pm
Jdj should go play for fiji
17 Nov 2012, 22:15 pm
@nortierd-237: snap
17 Nov 2012, 22:16 pm
@kaksioek-240:
whatever could you mean..?..
17 Nov 2012, 22:17 pm
@skopdiekan-245: @skopdiekan-241:
Ditto
17 Nov 2012, 22:19 pm
What a great game to end off the weekend with
Early days yet, but the intent is there
We can only but dream………
17 Nov 2012, 22:19 pm
typical french
17 Nov 2012, 22:19 pm
@ufo-223: And so say all of us.Goodnight
old friend
17 Nov 2012, 22:20 pm
@Dawn-235: Hello Dawn
17 Nov 2012, 22:22 pm
Great rugby!
Running backs!
End to end!
17 Nov 2012, 22:25 pm
bunch of fuckup saffa supporters that for sure JDJ is head and shoulders our premier center in the country and the dumb dtchmen calling him the problem when its the dumb useless arsehole idiot of a dumb dtchman coach who is the problem.
Check this game of end to end running rugby between Argy and France shown here this what the supporters pay to see not that garbage dished up by these dumb dtchmen neanderthals who still think Springbok rugby is only played by the half of the team, backs are just an inconvenient appendage they don’t know wtf their usefulness is for.
17 Nov 2012, 22:25 pm
@Tacitus-207: ag come now Tac. I credited you with more rugby nous than that. The Boks are playing exceptionally poor rugby and I suspect you know it. England will beat the Boks next week and I’m wondering what excuse you’ve going to conjure up for that aberation.
17 Nov 2012, 22:26 pm
Bakkies your great bok team can only dream of this kind of rugby
They are BORING. You hear me?
B O R I N G
17 Nov 2012, 22:29 pm
@wnbb-220: the amount of times he munched the carpet you could well be forgiven for thinking youre watching some dodgy S&M porn video
17 Nov 2012, 22:29 pm
@suffer_guy-221: stuck record deluxe – go to sleep already
17 Nov 2012, 22:30 pm
Could the current Boks and HM even imagine playing the kind of rugby played by France and Argentina now?
17 Nov 2012, 22:30 pm
Could the current Boks and HM even imagine playing the kind of rugby played by France and Argentina
17 Nov 2012, 22:32 pm
I doubt whether they’re fit enough to play at this pace.
17 Nov 2012, 22:35 pm
I have read on these threads how people have fallen asleep and switched channels during bok games.
That says it all.
I have no inclination to switch channels now and am wide awake
17 Nov 2012, 22:35 pm
There is no way on earth that the Boks are better than either of these two teams.
17 Nov 2012, 22:36 pm
Can anybody see the advantages of a forward with speed?
And Argies… don’t play a running match against the French! You will come off second best…. Did they learn nothing?
17 Nov 2012, 22:37 pm
this french team is cooking
with dusatoir back they will be formidable opponents
definitely have the makings of a team which could challenge sa,nz,oz.
17 Nov 2012, 22:37 pm
Skop ******** owns bok rugby boet…accept it ….
17 Nov 2012, 22:37 pm
Oh btw
Hello rye
17 Nov 2012, 22:39 pm
@Dawn-255:
tsk tsk
it must be the wine/whiskey talking, missy.
i will remind you of this in the morning
17 Nov 2012, 22:41 pm
Be my guest.
The boks are boring.
17 Nov 2012, 22:41 pm
@Dawn-261:
anyone who has fallen asleep to any of the bok games this season surely cannot understand rugby.
they have been engrossing and nerve wracking games.
17 Nov 2012, 22:43 pm
and the French Kolisi scores France got 2 Kolisi’s at flank show these dumb neanderthals how to play the modern game. A new dawn has dawned on the archaic neanderthal heritage Africans taking rugby to the new generation only the dumb moron in charge of the Springboks is still stuck in reverse gear, poor Springbok rugby playing catch up from the Streauli era.
17 Nov 2012, 22:45 pm
@skopdiekan-270: definitely – but no everyone around still arguing about how bad Lambie played today when in fact it was all heyneke no Lambie. Juan de Jongh is k@k (even without the ball) they say. No mention of John Smit v2 aka Jean De Villiers. Oh no. Cant see the writing on the wall.
17 Nov 2012, 22:47 pm
On every site jdv hadva better ranking than de jongh… Hop hop quota style
17 Nov 2012, 22:47 pm
@suffer_guy-221: loosely translated; “I am a complete plonker”"
17 Nov 2012, 22:50 pm
Loubscher, Van Graan OUT!!!
Rockspider 10′s gameplan OUT!!!
17 Nov 2012, 22:52 pm
No, they have been turgid, boring games.
Have you not read the comments.
17 Nov 2012, 22:53 pm
@ufo-210: Plum is good
17 Nov 2012, 22:53 pm
@phil72-186: Well I cannot fault your faith in Meyer, I do not agree with your logic. Who is to say all the players you named in your first post will be available next year. Will Fourie be the same player after a few years in Japa. Andre Snyman was never the same player after some injuries. Will Burger come back? Will be the same? I suppose I need to have faith and hope.
17 Nov 2012, 22:55 pm
if some of you are happy with this afternoon’s performance then I really don’t know. These recent wins are really unconvincing and the style of rugby poor. Our defense is good(as usual) but our attacking play is probably the worst amongst the top 8 test playing nations. The wasn’t a single noteworthy backline move today that I can recall. In 80 minutes. Now that’s a new low.
17 Nov 2012, 22:56 pm
Kirchner is not a world beater, but he certainly is safe at the back, I changed my views on him. He handles the ball with confidence under pressure.
Saw Guthro flying off tackles foday. We all saw Etsebeth brushing Bismarck out the way. BUT the moment Aplon falls back then the knowledgeable bunch are quick to point out his size. (and it goes for all the smaller guys)
Its exiting to see these flashy players creating tries with their skills. and surely, it must lift every player in the team when they burst through the opposition with their brilliance.
Look at the Scots today after that nifty try.
17 Nov 2012, 22:56 pm
@suffer_guy-272: What did you say last night?
.
17 Nov 2012, 22:57 pm
today
17 Nov 2012, 22:57 pm
THANK YOU Tassies
17 Nov 2012, 22:58 pm
But we can only dream…..
1 Tendai Mtawarira
2 Bismarck du Plessis
3 Jannie
4 Bakkies Botha
5 Etsebeth
6 Francois Louw
7 Burger
8 Spies
9 Fourie Du Preez
10 Goosen
11 Habana
12 F Steyn
13 J Fourie
14 J Pietersen
15 Taute
16 Adriaan Strauss
17 Guthro
18 Coenie
19 Bekker
20 Alberts
21 Kankowski
22 Hougaard
23 Lambie
17 Nov 2012, 22:58 pm
@digger-277: Has any body noticed
the fear filled faces of the Boks during anthems?And how Shalk comes
onto the field with a huge smile.?Says something to me
17 Nov 2012, 22:59 pm
The England game will be the real test. Until then I’m off to do other things instead of depressing myself over the national rugby team.
cheers
17 Nov 2012, 23:01 pm
Fuckit… Pat Lambie must get thefuck out of this Bok setup as soon as possible before his rugger gets farked up beyond repair…
Same goes for JdJ and JPP…
Heyneke Meyer is fcking with their minds…
17 Nov 2012, 23:02 pm
both teams look out on their feet after the 1st half performance
17 Nov 2012, 23:03 pm
I can honestly say that I am not enjoying watching the Boks play… Terrible sh.yte dished up…
abysmal
17 Nov 2012, 23:03 pm
@Dawn-266: Hi Dawn.Never been a BTW
afterthought type of person
17 Nov 2012, 23:07 pm
The human being will start at 10 for the Boks next weekend and Taute will be at 13. Meyer doesn’t have a farking clue.
17 Nov 2012, 23:20 pm
@Heavens Game-286: Totally agree with you.For once you talk sense.
17 Nov 2012, 23:24 pm
Did not see the game but wondring by looking at the scoreline, what part was brutal?
Was the defense that good?
Was the attack better?
I dont really read what ryan says as he seems to get it wrong so often.
21-10 does not sound impressive really.
17 Nov 2012, 23:24 pm
Pienaar had a pretty poor game.
- Gave away two penalties
- kicked out on the full
- 3 sloppy passes from the ruck which hit the ground
- one kick charged down
- failed to clear the ball from the scrum on our 5m line when he had the chance. Ref re-sets scrum. Penalty to the Scots.
- generally too slow to recycle the ball from the rucks.
Look at the difference the Scottish replacement scrumhalf made when he came on. Lots of nip and energy and put the Scots on the front foot.
We need to get out of this mindset that we need a scrumhalf who is a game-controller. That is the flyhalfs job. What we need is fast ball from the rucks so that our attack can run at a disorganised defence. A scrumhalf who gets the ball out quickly and snipes every now and then and only kicks occassionally when its needed.
Pienaar is one of the major reasons we dont score more tries.
17 Nov 2012, 23:25 pm
@phil72-283:
Spot on.
Not sure what to make of Lambie’s play the last 2 games? Was average against the Irish and below par against Scotland. Maybe super rugby is his ceiling?
17 Nov 2012, 23:26 pm
@Heavens Game-288: Hi Hg.Cet homme qii vous ennui tellement ne vaut pas la peine detendre
A demain.Bon soir.The first and last time and only in respose to a Blogger
who posts in a language I do not understand
17 Nov 2012, 23:27 pm
@Daddy-293: good post
17 Nov 2012, 23:28 pm
@wnbb-291: Have a good evening
17 Nov 2012, 23:32 pm
@Hurricane-292: It was brutal alright – brutal for Bok fans who weren’t born in Pretoria. Brutal for anyone who thinks the ball should go beyond 12, and brutal for anyone who believes feet can be used for something other than kicking.
17 Nov 2012, 23:34 pm
@ryecatcher-297: Same to you.
17 Nov 2012, 23:36 pm
@ryecatcher-297: Sorry Dawn.Touchy & tired
17 Nov 2012, 23:48 pm
@LoanShark-294:
After watching Michilak tonight I firmly believe Bambie needs another season or 2 learning from the better and more experienced 10′s in the game…. The boy is not ready! but then, will he ever be?
17 Nov 2012, 23:57 pm
Oh well. A win is a win I suppose. And a job done.
And once again, it was the Bok defence that saw us through. There were massive hits going in everywhere.
But Heyneke, now is the time to recruit some specialists. The Bok clearing has to become a lot faster. The ball stays on the deck for far too long. And then Ruan looks left, and then he looks right then left again. Then it just becomes a vokop. There is just no continuity to the play, no flow what so ever. The forwards bust their balls in getting the ball but our backs have to wait while the opposition defences get their ducks in a row. Then it’s a road to nowhere.
Heyneke, use the Christmas break wisely, ou pel. You do need help.
17 Nov 2012, 23:59 pm
Bok ratings: Stellar Strauss!
View 18 comments Comment on this story
By: Rob Houwing, Sport24 chief writer
2012-11-17 22:17
Cape Town – Good second half against Ireland, good first half against Scotland … warts and all, the Springboks continue unbeaten on their season-ending tour of the northern hemisphere.
The challenge now, perhaps, will be to attempt to produce a more acceptably consistent showing over the course of 80 minutes if they are to also see off England at Twickenham next Saturday for a clean sweep.
In a nutshell, the Boks again simply demonstrated, in seeing off the Scots 21-10 at Murrayfield, what we already know about them under Heyneke Meyer’s coaching tenure: that they are masters of physicality and sometimes amazingly unyielding defence, but leave many, many question marks when it comes to pizzazz.
Video highlights: Scotland v South Africa
That fact is reflected in forwards – admirably headed by Adriaan Strauss and Francois Louw – largely bossing the Sport24 performance card.
Here’s how we rated the Boks:
Zane Kirchner 6.5
This is becoming habitual: once again Kirchner didn’t dazzle (the Bok game-plan hardly helps) but you also have to laud his excellent composure and positional sense on defence … particularly in the under-siege second half.
JP Pietersen 6.5
Oh, for better opportunities for the long-legged right wing to build a head of running steam! But he still managed an influential game, courtesy of some inspiring, powerful drive-back tackling.
Juan de Jongh 6.5
One near-clean line break from what arguably amounted to one opportunity … if only there had been more? Also laid those lingering “size” doubts in some circles to rest with strong awareness and resolve on defence.
Jean de Villiers 7
Seriously committed and industrious considering his lead-up days were mostly spent in bed with flu. It’s a shame he becomes more and more a “contact” player in advancing years, but the skipper did ensure some key go-forward, all the same.
Francois Hougaard 6
More adhesive in defensive terms than against Ireland. But just maybe it’s time look at someone like Lwazi Mvovo out wide again, and even consider Hougaard’s restoration to No 9 at Twickenham.
Pat Lambie 5.5
Whether his natural game is currently restricted by “orders” or not, the Sharks darling again didn’t quite manage to exert any meaningful authority in the flyhalf slot. The No 10 riddle stays unanswered for the time being.
Ruan Pienaar 6
Solid and functional without being earth-shattering. One welcome mini-break, and a good finish by him to the punishing game. But also leaves some nagging doubts about the stealth of his service.
Duane Vermeulen 7
Strong man, yeoman worker … we’ve always known that. Saturday only underlined those hallmarks as he got stuck in with relish where the sun don’t shine. No silkier strings to his bow yet, mind.
Willem Alberts 7
Strong man, yeoman worker … oops, sorry, did we say that of the previous guy? You still feel the Bok loose trio could do with a whippet-like game-breaker, but the flip side is that the current combo undoubtedly does much more that’s good than bad.
Alberts certainly hurt some Scots in collision.
Francois Louw 8
Is this the form open-sider of world rugby? Another cracker of a match, to rank right up with his demon display in Dublin, and maybe even then some. Official choice for man of the match.
Juandré Kruger 6.5
Tackling technique and precision can still let him down on the odd occasion, but the Bulls No 5 did lift the bar a notch for 70 minutes on his iffy showing against Ireland.
Eben Etzebeth 7
Just 21, yet easily the senior Bok lock at present! Stays simply indispensable, despite such a gruelling maiden top-flight season. Amazing lineout prowess for a No 4 (who tends to be the more secondary lock in that capacity in the modern game), gritty mauling and some very timely tackles when Boks were under cosh.
Jannie du Plessis 7.5
Again, you could see why Heyneke Meyer was so determined to somehow patch up his niggles and have him out there, battle-weariness and all, for that right shoulder at scrum-time. Look how the set-piece wobbled when he was subbed at 53 min …
Adriaan Strauss 8
The consummate, all-round performance. Dead-eye accurate throwing-in, inspiring work as an extra fetcher, zealous mauler … and his second, opportunistic try was probably more important than his first in terms of ensuring precious daylight before the Scottish rearguard action.
Gurthrö Steenkamp 6.5
Largely satisfying return to the No 1 shirt for the bald Bok stalwart. Robust scrumming, especially initially, and a valuable carry during the lead-up to the tourists’ rolling-maul try.
Subs with enough game-time for rating:
CJ van der Linde 4
Ouch … fairly traumatic 27 minutes at the scrummaging office when he took over at tighthead, and paid a price in penalties.
Heinke van der Merwe 6
Perhaps not quite as forceful as when his fresh legs were infused against Ireland, but mostly fitted in soundly after Steenkamp’s
call-off.
Marcell Coetzee 6.5
Nice ability to inject urgency and high tempo almost immediately.
*Follow our chief writer on Twitter: @RobHouwing
Sport24
18 Nov 2012, 00:00 am
@Hurricane-292: Ryan isnot Hemnigway.
Or Barbara Cartsand. And not even Enid
18 Nov 2012, 00:01 am
Hemingway
18 Nov 2012, 00:02 am
@kaksioek-298:
It sound like another one of those games/
But it seems the usual on here were happy with the game and outcome, i think they wear blue jerseys.
18 Nov 2012, 00:20 am
@Heavens Game-286: yep well said – people questioning Lambies ability when the real issue is the Obermeister giving the orders.
18 Nov 2012, 00:22 am
@ufo-223: Stop talking about Plumtree. this coach is a failure with what he achieved, with the very talented players in his squads for years. The same go for Coetsee at WP. With all the talent the WP have( the stormer groupies words) to only have one currycup to show for it in 11 years there must be something rotten under the mountain.
18 Nov 2012, 00:24 am
I have been to Ellis Park.
I have been to Kings Park.
I have been to Twickenham.
I have been to Millenium Stadium.
I have been to Stade de Fracais.
Amongst others.
All very fine stadia.
But I must tell you, tonight I went to s stadium that surpasses them all. A magnificent stadium… Camp Nou.
Wow, is all I can say. And a crowd of what must have been near 90,000 for a normal la Liga game….
Great to have caught the Bok game in a bar in Barcelona too.
18 Nov 2012, 00:38 am
@Liewe Luiperd-309: good on you bud.A friend went to see the Barca -Madrid game last year.He is stil tormenting me about it.
18 Nov 2012, 00:49 am
@Liewe Luiperd-309: Wow youre in my kneck of the woods. Live just up the coast on the Costa Brava. yeah Camp Nou is impressive and theyre about to redo it to make it even better.
18 Nov 2012, 01:21 am
@jet jungle-308:
“The same go for Coetsee at WP. With all the talent the WP have( the stormer groupies words) to only have one currycup to show for it in 11 years there must be something rotten under the mountain.”
You’re not trying to suggest that AC has been the coach of WP for the past 11 years , are you. That would be really stupid.
Let’s look at AC’s record as WP/Stormers coach in isolation. Since you brought it up, why don’t you put up his stats?
Remember, he started in 2008 as WP coach when Rassie was Stormers’ coach, if I’m not mistaken.
18 Nov 2012, 01:44 am
Too many people saying Lambie should be dropped. His performance today was one of the best we have had from a flyhalf all year. He got his kicks, made his tackles, and had some good tactical kicks in general play (the cross kick to Pietersen was very good)…. He is slowly building confidence and will develop into a decent flyhalf.
18 Nov 2012, 01:52 am
@Kaizan-313: I agree with that, I think if everybody left him to play flyhalf and build his confidence, he can be very good.I am a blue bull supporter but Lambie offer much more than Steyn.
18 Nov 2012, 02:06 am
lambie was fine, u can see the difference though when playing for a skop n jag legionair under the orders.. Would have like to have seen Boks retain possession when they were in the grim line of fire.They are Faar more effective when they hold onto possession and run at their opposition. The last 30min was crying begging and bleeding for them to hold more possession eg when in opposition territory ffs and not kick it away..
18 Nov 2012, 02:08 am
If this was a BRUTAL display by the Boks, I hope I’m not even near a TV, let alone the stadion, when they are BLUNT.
Vok, maar julle kan kak skryf.
18 Nov 2012, 02:09 am
Tactical kicking is fine But just don’t Butcher opposition when in opposition territory and u are in the need of slowing oppositions momentum..get in their half and then starve them of possession ffs don’t give them the ball when u get into their half and let them run strait back Past ur 22..
18 Nov 2012, 02:10 am
@nama1-312: Somehow my long and well thought out reply got lost in the world of the iternet. So in a nutshell, I know A Coetsee has been the stormers coach for 4 years. In that 4 years you guys played a defence only rugbygame and only came close but no cigar. This while having one of the most exiting backlines in SA. With the currycup you changed your strategy. Brilliant but it took Coetsee and Fleck 4 years to realise this? HM has shown more willingness to chop and change albeit very slowly in 1 year. Dont ask me about stats. The only stats I am interested in is how many superrugby tiles have he won? If the Stormers do not take it next year I never want to hear his name again for springbok coach. You surely got the players to do it next year no excuses.
18 Nov 2012, 02:15 am
@Kaizan-313:
Any FH,playing under Meyer’s instructions, will come under fire. The margin of error for a FH to having a average to poor game and having a great game, is just too small.
Landing you uppies on the TIEKIE or just ONE metre too far, is what determines whether you were good on the day or not. Kicking 80%+ of your kicks to the poles, is another.
18 Nov 2012, 02:16 am
@Guns-317: That sounds like the gameplan when fourie was playing. I do agree that holding on and offloading when its on is the way forward once you there. Somehow most Sa coaches see that as a alien consept viewed with suspicion. Surely it cant be that difficult to teach supertallented athletes that.
18 Nov 2012, 02:23 am
@jet jungle-318:
So, your choice for the next Bok coach would be Ludeke?
He did win TWO Super rugby trophies after all.
Why does AC have to win the S15 NEXT YEAR to come into contention for Bok coach after 2015, if I may ask? Everybody know that about 50% of the team that won the CC this year, is younger than 22 years old. Don’t you think you are a bit harsh in your expectations of AC and his team?
18 Nov 2012, 02:28 am
@jet jungle-318:
“Dont ask me about stats.”
Since AC has been coach of the Stormers:
2009: Not sure. (Help!!!)
2010: Losing Finalist
2011: Semi Finalist
2012: Top of the log. Semi Finalist
Not a bad record.
Agree. Silverware would be much, much better.
18 Nov 2012, 02:30 am
@nama1-321: No Nama he got the players now just like Ludeke and Meyer had . Anybody that think Meyer was not involved to the hilt in Ludekes wins is a little bit naive. Do you really want to tell me that Coetsee and Fleck did not frustrate the hall out of you this last 4 years?
18 Nov 2012, 02:35 am
The way the Scottish players were able to “burst” through the 1st line of defence of the Boks on occasions, were quite alarming.
No mention yet about our defence coach and what he is suppose to do in the coaching set up.
18 Nov 2012, 02:36 am
@nama1-322: Exactly if you like coming second thats beautifull. Is it harsh to ask for something more next year ecspecially with a guy like Flo back( i think) Eben, Schalk, Duane etc etc.
18 Nov 2012, 02:42 am
@jet jungle-323:
It’s not about them frustrating me as a WP/Stormer supporter the last few years. The game plan was developed and introduced by Rassie, not AC.
Yes, it was kak watching WP/Stormers playing that kind of rugby. Fortunately they realized that we won’t win anything playing a defensive orientated game hence the more attacking rugby in the CC which ultimately led to us winning the Cup.
I’m sure we’ll see a much more attacking orientated Stormers in the S15 next year. Does not mean we’ll win it though.
18 Nov 2012, 02:48 am
@jet jungle-325:
“If the Stormers do not take it next year I never want to hear his name again for springbok coach.
Now remember what you said: NEXT YEAR!!!
What happens if Stormers don’t win it next year but they win it twice in a row in 2014 and 2015. Remember, HM’s contract only expires in 2015.
In your esteemed opinion, should AC come into contention as Bok coach if he wins the S15 in 2014 and 2015 with the Stormers?
Hypothetically speaking, of course.
18 Nov 2012, 02:53 am
@nama1-326: The point I am trying to make is dont put Coetsee’s name forward if he have not achieved anything yet. Rassie actually lifted WPrugby out of a very bad place the same he did for the cheetas. If you look at the rugby the cheetahs were playing under Rassie, it was beautifull. I do not think this Defense at all cost can belaid at his door alone?
18 Nov 2012, 02:57 am
@nama1-327: Ok you got me I will give him untill 2015.
18 Nov 2012, 04:54 am
Most Bok supporters agree that Heyneke Meyer is an Idiot.
He is as stupid as he looks
I have to change my name
18 Nov 2012, 06:37 am
Judged on the EOYT the French is surely the #2 team at the moment. It is also clear why Michelack played at 10 above Lambie
18 Nov 2012, 06:52 am
@wnbb-303:
A strong bias detected here!
Steenkamp should have earned an 8,
JdJ at least 8.5 while JP is a certainty at 7.5
Kirchner’s rating is out of the scale
18 Nov 2012, 07:38 am
Anyone getting all excited about the win is delusional!!!
It was a pathetic performance against a very low ranked team. Poor Lambie looked really bad as he is expected to play the predictable poor kick and chase game…
Niknaks will be there for good as all he does is catch and kick. He follows HM instrutions to the T.
I would be really worried if I were the coaching team. England could take us next week if we play anything like this.
18 Nov 2012, 08:17 am
If there is justice in this world, De Jongh will keep his place. The game plan was poor and he bearly got to express himself. We saw the benefits of having specialist centres playing together.
Taute needs to get game time at 15. Kirchner is rubbish and that’s all we are missing in the backline.
Pienaar is the best 9 we have at present. unless Dupreez comes back, the that’s what we have.
Janjties needs to be on the bench and get 20mins to run.
18 Nov 2012, 08:18 am
@330
18 Nov 2012, 08:23 am
@Gumboots-333:
“Anyone getting all excited about the win is delusional!!!”
Agree 100%.
18 Nov 2012, 08:29 am
@Dawn-335: Hello Dawn.A very good morning to you.Have a wonderful day
18 Nov 2012, 08:29 am
@Tbozknows-334:
Taute and Morne will start.
HG will go on a crusade against Meyer for dropping Lambie and ET will just break down and cry. At least it will bring them even closer together.
I’m willing to bet on it.
18 Nov 2012, 08:31 am
@nama1-338:
I’m also willing to put a few Nelson Mandelas on that…
18 Nov 2012, 08:37 am
@Kaizan-313: I thought Lambie played a sound game too. It’s clear Meyer wants him to kick almost everything so within those parameters he achieved what his coach wanted. It’s boring sure, but they are winning. SA will (as usual) be very motivated to play England and this England pack just depresses me.
18 Nov 2012, 08:41 am
The performance is what we’ve come to expect from the Boks. I dont think we should be disillusioned. When was the last time you saw a Bok Team do a backline move that resulted in a break through midfield?
We run into bodies, nobody runs into space and I am beginning to believe that it’s bigger than Meyer. It’s a culture that goes back to Jake White days and beyond. There’s not enough of an emphasis on skills. It’s aggression then precision at set-piece.
Look at the skill levels of your average NZ player, whether a forward or Back? McCaw and Reid have unbelievable handling and ball skills. Vito, Messam and Kaino too. The reason why i use the A.B’s is coz they are the benchmark, like Nick Mallet said.
Against the British teams, i.e Wales, Scotland, Ireland and England, our predictability (to quote Mallet) gets us through, as they get a culture shock from the physical nature of the Southern Hemisphere. The industrial raw, but rural sympathy for the opposition is too much to handle.
We need to be more clever and take a game to the opposition. To be fair to England, they will try bring it to us. with moves we can defend, as they are executed poorly and England don’t have the skill levels. However at least they try to emulate the Mighty AB’s with moves that are way above threshold. The Boks are a safe tried and tested ‘no thrills’ institution of rugby. I am actually relieved to see the School boys raise the bar. The school boys try things as they watch lots of S15. They play with a freedom the National Side.
We will keep playing the percentage rugby, given Meyers attention to disciplined detail, plus he’s ‘Mr No Risk.’ We saw the Bulls, Habana thrived as Dupreez was our 9 and 10 with his clever kicking game and distribution, otherwise he probably wouldn’t see any ball.. We need to move our game forward.
18 Nov 2012, 08:42 am
@Big Hit-340:
It’s do or die for both teams next week.
SA have not return unbeaten from an EOYT in Europe afa I can remember while England will be smarting after their loss against Aus yesterday.
I’ll put my money on England for a win.
18 Nov 2012, 08:47 am
Suffer_guy has a crush on JDJ.
18 Nov 2012, 08:48 am
The big culpret to me was Ruan Pienaar.He started kicking aimless kicks into opposition hands and by the end of the 1st half we lost the fire in our bellies and never got it back.Lambie was doing well up to that point.I was screaming at RP like mad.Couldnt believe my eyes.
18 Nov 2012, 08:51 am
@nama1-338: If Morne starts i”ll lose it.
We have clearly shown a way forward with Lambie. I just don’t understand why we don’t kick to find touch? All we do is kick into hands. I’m for kicking if we do it into space.
DeJongh did okay with the little he had.
18 Nov 2012, 08:55 am
@Tbozknows-345:
HM has always wanted to play Steyn and knows that Lambie is a better attacking and link flyhalf and wants to expose his kicking weakness, which he did yesterday. Steyn will be 10 against England and Taute will be 13. Be ready for kick and chase from Steyn. That is the only game plan HM knows…
18 Nov 2012, 08:59 am
@Tbozknows-345:
Well, Morne having that little cameo of his probably suggests that his “resting period” is over now.
Tuilagi’s presence will be used as an excuse to include the “bigger” Taute ahead of the “small” JdJ. We all know that he is not a better defender than JdJ but that won’t stop Meyer, I believe from trying to bullshit the public..
18 Nov 2012, 09:00 am
@nama1-342: The greenhorn England coaching team think they can beat SH teams without a powerful tight five. Meyer is nobody’s idea of a genius coach but at least he gets that much about rugby, whereas Lancaster etc don’t. It’s just painful to watch England make the same mistakes of the last few years under a different coaching team, I wish the RFU had hired Mallett and Smith when they had the chance. SA are strong up front where England are weak, save your money if you were being serious.
18 Nov 2012, 09:00 am
@Gumboots-346: @Gumboots-346: If Meyer does do that, then we have serious problems. I don’t see a way forward.
18 Nov 2012, 09:02 am
that won’t stop Meyer from trying to bullshit the public, I believe.
18 Nov 2012, 09:03 am
@Big Hit-348: you speak the truth, SA will be predictable, it’s the efficiency of the tight 5 that gets them over. If England get that right, then they have a chance. A very good chance.
18 Nov 2012, 09:09 am
The SA coaching team has no idea!!!
You could actually feel Mallet’s frustration with what the Boks are dishing up.
He was so peed when Pienaar just kicked the ball away with two minutes to play instead of running the ball with a huge overlap. Then you get Matfield who was impressed. Man you can see who worships the messiah and who tells the truth…
Mallet for coach sooner rather than later… please please please.
We are killing the skills of our players… and we just sit and watch it happen.
18 Nov 2012, 09:12 am
Brutal? WTF are you on Vrede? Maybe you need a brutal peosklap to wake up.
If it wasn’t for the pack besting the opposition in the tight exchanges this team would be absolutely ****** nowhere. How can a ball not move beyond 12 in 80 mins?
Kuk gameplan by a kak coach. The sooner he fu.cks off the better.
18 Nov 2012, 09:24 am
Tactical kicking is much better and so is defence, but our backline is completly dulled by three poor decision makers, at times Pienaar and Lambie kicks too much but Kirchner is the real problem, when attacking ball reaches the FB then ut should be to inject pace and flair into the line, instead he either looks for contact or kicks it away. Drop Kirchner and see a bug change.
18 Nov 2012, 09:26 am
@goodstuff-354: coupla bugs need changing, starting with the hoofkokkerot
18 Nov 2012, 09:27 am
Errr…. “…big change.”
18 Nov 2012, 09:46 am
@Gumboots-352: Mate we cant dare to hope for Mallet to come into the picture. It will just add loads of stress and disappointment. The reality is we’re stuck with Meyer for another three years; SARU back him to the hilt and he will see out his stint.
Only thing we can make noise about and realistically affect is the assistant coaching. We have to keep banging the drum until Heyneke replaces the imbeciles that make up his team and brings in a proper skills and back-line coach while he focuses on the fowards. It’s either that or we completely detach ourselves from Bok rugby or resign ourselves to 10 man rugby for another three years.
18 Nov 2012, 09:49 am
@Nama-338: No campaigns from this poster if Lambie gets dropped…
Actually I reckon it will be the best thing for Pat… He is one of SA’s best backline players without doubt… However it disgusted me beyond doubt to see him playing the way he did yesterday…
He was shackled… Drawn… and Quartered in a straitjacket of “game plans” and “correct” decision making…
He was taking the ball in “the pocket” all game long…. FFS!!! That is not the way he plays the game… Rather bring Morne back to play that way – he is better at it…
Lambie’s strength is advantage line play with offloads to loosies and wings coming through, and flat passing to backline…
He is trying is all to be the flyhalf that Meyer wants… He is not the flyhalf Meyer wants… Better for him to give up the dream for now and be the great flyhalf he can actually be for his franchise – lead them to victory playing a game that suits his aptitude and skill for a coach that appreciates his natural ability…
He needs to take a leaf out of Freddy’s book… Being out of the national side for a while does not mean he is second best… All will not be lost because national coaches come and go… The last farken mad French coach thought Freddy was a better 9 – Freddy tried hard to be the 9 he wanted – however he landed up playing 10 for a franchise that let him be the 10 he naturally can be and look at him now… After DC probably the next best 10 on the planet, playing for a new National coach who appreciates what he can bring to the game…
Lambie can do the same… But not for this coach… Maybe the next one. But first things first – he needs to play his natural game for the Sharks and Plum needs to deprogram him a bit before next year…
Similarly for JdJ and JPP…
Regarding JPP, I wouldnt be surprised that when Habana returns, JPP will find himself on the bench with Hougaard being the other wing… And JdJ will find himself outside the Green and Gold circle as soon as Frans Steyn returns…
It makes me sick to my stomach…
18 Nov 2012, 09:53 am
@Heavens Game-358: Don’t blame the game plan on a poor Lambie performance, maybe Lambie cannot perform at this level
18 Nov 2012, 09:56 am
@JL1-359: There is a gameplan which involves the backline?
18 Nov 2012, 10:01 am
The positive to take out of the game yesterday was that the starting pack were awesome… Verging on the incredible…
But it blows my little mind that 8 of 15 can be so damn good and that 7 of 15 can be so abysmal…
The Bok coaches certainly know something about forward play, however they know absolutely sweet farkall about backplay and integrating the backs…
Rugby is a numbers game and 15 will beat 8 given teams of equal strength no matter how big an “innings” the pack builds… The Aussies show this over and over… They have a pack inferior to the Boks by a long way however they use all 15 players… They showed this against England yesterday… However France showed that with a superior pack and parity in the backs then game over for Aussies…
Meyer is a forwards coach par excellence but he knows farkall about integrating backline play beyond structured playbook moves… This will not change.
18 Nov 2012, 10:02 am
@trupisero-360: Fair enough, backline coaching is non existent, but when Goosen was there the backline was moving
Pienaar is a slow rubbish scrummie, Lambie is not stepping up to the plate,JDV is only there for his crash ball and Kirchner is a safe bet at FB
Change the scrummie and change 12 and 15 and you will see different backline operate, but no one will convince me that the gameplan is making Lambie not performing
18 Nov 2012, 10:03 am
@JL1-359: You are right… Lambie cannot perform at “this level” playing the way he was playing yesterday… He cannot play the Morne Steyn way… He cannot play the Heynecke Meyer way… He is shy.te playing this way…
18 Nov 2012, 10:08 am
@Heavens Game-363: Well if he is trying to conform…. Then he is not needed, we need a flyhalf that can take charge
I mean his opposite number weighed 12st, he is a midget, Lambie should have run at him all day long
Pienaars poor clearance put pressure on the backline….
I reckon Ricardo Laubscher is way out of his depth as backline coach
18 Nov 2012, 10:09 am
@JL1-362: Lambie’s problems starts with Pienaar’s slow service. Then again, the gameplan largely involves Pienaar passing to one of a few forwards standing off to bash it up.
Pienaar also does not ask any questions of the defence, he merely shuffles the ball along.
18 Nov 2012, 10:11 am
@Heavens Game-361: Pack was very good up to a point….
Who in his right mind still selects CJ van Der Linde, the bloke has technical shortcomings especially binding and does not have the heart? We need a tight head that can support Jannie
Flip is a starting lock, not a sub, Flip plays his best rugby when he starts, not when he has to come on in the last 10 minutes
18 Nov 2012, 10:11 am
@JL1-362: Change the backline as much as you like… Under this coach they will not change the way they play…
“no one will convince me that the gameplan is making Lambie not performing” – no, the gameplan does not make Lambie not perform… Simply put, Lambie is not suited to this “gameplan”… He will be substandard at playing “shotgun” out of the pocket… Morne is far better playing this way…
Like Freddy could never fit into Lievremont’s team… Lambie will not be a good fit for Meyer’s team playing the way he was required to yesterday…
So, no convincing… I agree with you but for different reasons… Lambie needs to be dropped and Morne Steyn needs to replace him next week for the Boks to beat England…
18 Nov 2012, 10:13 am
@trupisero-365: Exactly what I am saying… Pienaar does not even try a pick the runners with the best angles, he just directs traffic like a meerkat
18 Nov 2012, 10:13 am
@JL1-366: I said starting pack… Meyer has fckedup repeatedly this season with his second half replacement tinkering… Yesterday conformed to this pattern…
18 Nov 2012, 10:17 am
@Heavens Game-367: Morne? Eish, I cringe
Lambie can at least tackle, Steyn is a swinging door defender
Lambie needs a better service and that is not from his missus
18 Nov 2012, 10:18 am
@Heavens Game-369: Yes, that starting pack could take on 2 other packs at the same time, really awesome… Is that Heineke or Johan van Graan at work? Or Pieter de Villiers
18 Nov 2012, 10:19 am
Anyhow time for Croissants and coffee
18 Nov 2012, 10:19 am
@JL1-364: Of course Lambie should have run at him all day long… Yet Lambie was playing in “the pocket” all game long… The Boks also needed to get the ball wide to JPP in order for him to run at a big yet inexperienced wing – yet he never saw the ball the whole match… This is because Lambie hardly distributed the ball past 12…
There were some amateur backline moves yesterday – including that same Std 5 style wall in the midfield with players running off… This is the third time they have tried this… Everytime it has fckedup…
Now I reckon you need to think about it… But you won’t because it is quite clear you dont really understand…
18 Nov 2012, 10:22 am
Was the bok backline better nder pdv? No ways dude
18 Nov 2012, 10:24 am
The last time the boks had a decent backline was way back n the danie gerber era
18 Nov 2012, 10:26 am
@JL1-362: Bullshitt…If you mean the “movement” against the Aussies at Loftus then you conveniently forget that all that “movement” happened when the Aussies were playing with 13 men and with to all intents and purposes a decimated B team without Pocock and many of their 1st choice backline players…
Talking absolute bolllocks now…
18 Nov 2012, 10:28 am
@suffer_guy-375: The backline under Christie?
The backline under Mallet?
The backline under PdV at the beginning of his tenure?
I think you forget… Conveniently
18 Nov 2012, 10:36 am
Got to say that Argentina are rapidly becoming my favourite team… I am obligated to support the Boks… Its the “you cant choose your family” sentiment… But fark me Los Pumas play the game its supposed to be played…
Courage…
Risk…
Spirit of never say die…
Sportsmanship…
Viva Los Pumas…
And France are rapidly becoming a complete team… Consistently…
Boks are No 2. on the Planet in name only… If the French continue like this through the 6 Nations then I look forward to the unofficial World Championship series next year when they tour New Zealand…
18 Nov 2012, 10:41 am
The HG Team top 10 Team Ranking…
1. Sheepshaggers
2. France
3. Aus
4. Boks
5. Los Pumas
6. Samoa
7. England
8. Ireland
9. Wales
10. Scotland
18 Nov 2012, 10:56 am
@Heavens Game-378:
Super rugby is going to help them a lot.
18 Nov 2012, 11:02 am
Sarel Cilliers from Dundee gave Maritzburg College a 21-7 klap in a recent sevens tournament in Garsfontein Pretoria.
Naais!
18 Nov 2012, 11:07 am
The bacline unser pdv in the beginning? You mean jake’s backline ….
18 Nov 2012, 11:30 am
Anyone who thinks Lambie wasn’t playing under orders yesterday is as thick as Meyer.
18 Nov 2012, 11:32 am
@kaksioek-383:
Exactly… Dumb coach dumb gameplan…
18 Nov 2012, 11:38 am
HM has got the balance all wrong, in fact the problem is there is no balance.
Its all about defense for HM, and while defense is important, rugby has never been all about defense. It is a facet of the game, not the whole game. The truly great teams, from the old to modern times, all have an attacking game.
A few years ago, there was a need for a more conservative approach to get on level pegging – but there is no need for it today. Sa has strikerunners and talent that is seeing its S15 teams rise to the top.
Attacking talent like de jong, hougaard and jp are being completely squandarered – these are massively dangerous strikerunners who are simply not being used.
A coaches ability should be judged by how well he is able to maximise the talent available, not on imposing a particular style just because he prefers it, but because improves the team’s abilities. Its not even about attacking under ‘perfect’ conditions in the oppo 22 or with fast ball, since this hardly happens, which is why we hardly ever see the Boks attack. As all the great attacking creative teams know, it is used whenever needed and when the opportunity arises – and this is what our coaches cannot suss, what they have no intuition of, and why they are known the world over as conservative and dom.
Yesterday in the second half, scotland matched the bok pack and it was then 40 mins of defense, as happens all the time these days – when instead the Boks should have been giving them something to think about by brining de jong into play at a surprising moment and taking it to them. INstead the scots had a field day, the Boks had become a punch bag, simply taking wave after wave of attack – with little fear of getting smacked back.
He’s going to go down with an average coach record and be remembered as a conservative coach, not dissimilar to all the afr coaches before him, trying to play percentages, rather than the situation as is often needed.
But the worst thing is this is truly a gifted set of players to choose from. For the first time in SA history there are 3 S15 sides capably of competing at the top – we have the players to take it to the world’s top sides – and instead what do they do – defend.
Its why the Boks will always remain a 60% team under HM despite having the talent to be a 80% – the great teams are always dangerous. HM is handicapping and hamstrining the potential of this team with his emphasis on defense – we have not always had this attacking potential in recent years, but we do at the moment, in spades, and its being stifled rather than encouraged.
18 Nov 2012, 11:42 am
Couldn’t be bothered to even whinge too much. It’s not as though the negatives from yesterday were a ‘major’ surprise now were they? Those who still expect anything different are mroe delusional than Matfield, who reckons van Graan is a fanfuckingtastic attack coach.
Meyer has only one thing on his mind, as he get’s ready to enter his 2nd year as national coach:
Make sure that fellas like Lambie, de Jongh, Mvovo etc etc etc are nowhere near his Bok 2013 Bok squad. Simples……
Setting them all up for failure, only to insert the players he REALLY wants once he’s given these other chaps a whole 80-200 minutes game time. Fuckheisathicko. Thicker than what even I initially thought.
The ‘expression of unadulterated JOY’ on Lambie’s face throughout the test, tells me (and anyone else who does not worship at the alter of outdatedandfuckeduprugby) all I need to know…..
18 Nov 2012, 11:47 am
I suspect De Jong’s run-on will be a once-off and HM is indeed simply applying window-dressing, despite having a scintillating game in defense, and positvely reverbertating with energy and enthusiasm in the hope of getting some attacking ball yesterday – of which there was no chance with a outdated rugby strategy in whch everything is planned or kicked and a ballhog inside of him, jdV played reasonably well, but is not the impetus needed at 12, this is where de jong should be, jp should be crashing on his outside and hougaard should be sniping at 9 with lambie distributing at 10
instead we got pienaar and lambie kicking at 9 and 10 and jdv hogging at 12. he simply does not have the sharpness that is crying out to be injected. I suspect it will get worse against england next week with a rookie fullback taute being pulled into centre – illustrating the complete false attempt at window-dressing.
we’ll get the usual spiel about horses for corses and he needs a bigger centre to match their centres, all reactive thing, and wrong too – de jong is better defensively than either jdv or taute.
18 Nov 2012, 11:48 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-386:
Morning Doc! I’m not surprised at all. Actually it is exactly what I knew would happen against the 10th ranked team in the world. Some actually singing halleluha with the win.
Expect Steyn to start at 10 next week. An aerial assault wat skrik vir niks…
I don’t think I have ever been so frustrated as I was second half of yesterday’s test. I watched it with a few Bulls supporters and they are insisting on HM’s demise… As one said expect the same for four years…
18 Nov 2012, 12:03 pm
What a terrible game of rugby.
18 Nov 2012, 12:04 pm
I can only hope that deep down inside Meyer knows what a doos he is.
18 Nov 2012, 12:07 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-386: Good Morning good lady.We will probably
have Morne back against England.
HG is absolutely right.HM has taken a talented player and sucked the creative juices out of him.Will do the same with the Goose and with Jantjies.
Rather keep him away from HM.How many times did we see Sharks
playing wid e and JPP and MVOVO scoring.?How many times did JPP
or Hougaardt get the ball from a backline movement.
Your man DV very good yesterday.My MOM =Alberts
18 Nov 2012, 12:08 pm
“RYAN VREDE, in Edinburgh, watched the Springboks deliver ……………”
Why can’t Ryan watch the game on television,
like the rest of us?
Man, what a job these guys have.
18 Nov 2012, 12:08 pm
@ryecatcher-391: Get the ball from a backline movement yesterday.@ryecatcher-391:
18 Nov 2012, 12:10 pm
It is rare that almost all the bloggers are united on most of the issues… This is one of them. Particularly surprising, I found myself agreeing with almost everything HG says. It is clear as daylight…
18 Nov 2012, 12:13 pm
“An aerial assault wat skrik vir niks…”
LMAO
18 Nov 2012, 12:14 pm
@kaksioek-390: When the ego is larger than the grey matter, don’t count on it. I kid you not.
Remember when the yank tanks were already crawling all over Baghdad airport as seen on CNN, and the voices of the Hussein regime (at the behest of the king of ego’s, Saddam) were heralding the amazing progress the Iraqi army were making?
Well there are some alarming similarities……..
@ryecatcher-391: Hi there!
Despondency rules 
18 Nov 2012, 12:19 pm
@cab-395:
Weapons of mass amusement…
18 Nov 2012, 12:21 pm
@Gumboots-388: Howdy – sorry I missed your message!!
Oh dear Xmas it was horrific wasn’t it?
18 Nov 2012, 12:25 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-398:
The last two matches has shown just how much our backline has regressed… 9,10,15 kick kick kick…
12 tries to run through the opposition… no skill, no plan and no joy… Flouw was totally exahausted and thanks to him and the forwards otherwise it would have been embarassing…
18 Nov 2012, 12:31 pm
@Fern-380:
They don’t play Super Rugby Fern.
Only the The Rugby Championship. (What a shiit name for a SH comp).
18 Nov 2012, 12:33 pm
@Gumboots-399: One just knew how it was going to go down when Lambie rattled off his first ‘tactical’ kick…………
The highlight of the game was the Lambie and Pienaar charged down kick fiasco. (Lambie, bless his heart – looked like a shark on dry land, that’s how fuckedup Meyer is as a coach)
It must also be said, that not since Straeuli ran the show, have I ever seen such an unhappy Bok team (on the field).
Duane, Alberts, Flo, Strauss, Eben and Jannie worked their butts of.
18 Nov 2012, 12:35 pm
Given his approach to the game, Meyer’s solution to the selection headache he is expected to face as previously unavailable forwards become available next year should be to slot them into the backline. Expect, for example, Juan Smith and Schalk Burger to be reunited – but in the centres. Spies will make his long-awaited return to the wing, partnered by longtime rival Kankowski. Kirchner retains his spot at the back due to his peerless ability to stick to the game plan.
18 Nov 2012, 12:45 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-401:
Sad indeed. You right! You can see the unhappiness in the team.
The body language is so negative and they play like programmed machines…
I doubt there has even been a Bok team so poorly coached…
18 Nov 2012, 12:51 pm
@Gumboots-403: The starting forward pack is very very very good. Pienaar has no idea how to instruct the forwards to achieve quick ruck ball for recycling. He looks and looks, takes a step and then passes. Lambie plays according to a pattern and JdV, the less said about him the better. That’s when the latter two see the ball from Pienaar.
The BBC said Taute made the most metres of the backs last week against Ireland. This week JdJ never saw the ball. It tells me that Meyer didn’t trust the ball getting past JdV.
18 Nov 2012, 12:54 pm
I shudder when I think that Meyer is calling for centralized contracting… I shudder to think of the control he craves for the direction of Bok rugby…
There is no room for other ways to skin the cat in this vision of “unity”… There is no strength in diversity here… There is no room for unique individualism… This is a vision of the Borg – acquire, assimilate and program…
If there ever was fascism in rugby, this is it…
Meyer might be backed to the hilt by SARU but he and the Boks are losing supporters weekly…
18 Nov 2012, 13:00 pm
This is like Groundhog Day……every Bok performance just leaves me flat and dissapointed….
18 Nov 2012, 13:00 pm
@mikeybrass-404:
It is indeed! I said earlier we had our forwards to thank…
When Steyn played 12 he played exactly the way that Jean is playing. Takes the ball into the opposition… It is not the players it is the game plan and the coaching staff… Easy really…
18 Nov 2012, 13:00 pm
The Boks 2nd win on the trot seemed to upset more than a few here?
Noticeably the FUPP here?
Could it be that many took a wager on the Scotts?
18 Nov 2012, 13:03 pm
@Heavens Game-405:
Indeed very scary… That will be the day I become a hockey fan…
@grant10-406:
Every game I think it is going to change… Wishful thinking – now I know it will never change. To see Lambie launching rubbish into the air was heart breaking… Watching Pienaar being so predictable was alarming… It is not gonna change under this coach…
18 Nov 2012, 13:09 pm
We stuck with those HM oke…..what a terrible thought .
Bet M Steyn at 10 and Taute at 13 for Poms…..
All we need is Spies back at 8 and lod to earn a recall and my worst nightmare is complete
18 Nov 2012, 13:10 pm
plod
18 Nov 2012, 13:12 pm
@grant10-410:
I watched the game with a few Blue Bulls and they are saying it is a given that HM wants Spies as captain… Now that will be the death of most. Britney in charge and given carte blanche to prance… what a picture…
18 Nov 2012, 13:28 pm
There was much excitement in the HM camp when Keegan had a poor game so that he could be dropped. It was also hoped that Vermeulen wouldn’t perform so as to open the door for Britney. Flouw was also not supposed to be playing as well as he is as it has exposed the coach and made him look really silly regarding a fetcher. Niknaks and Hougie are safe as they do as told. Steyn will be back and HM is quite relieved that Bambi is not performing. The script is clear for all to see. Call me silly, but I tell you the script has been written well before a ball was kicked in anger…
Spies will be the next captain… His messengers ala Tact, etc are preparing all the for inevitable… Blue is true…
18 Nov 2012, 13:32 pm
@Tacitus-184: So the All Blacks are completely missing the point?
18 Nov 2012, 13:37 pm
@Gumboots-413: The day Spies and M Steyn are back in the team is the day I watch something else…..cant take this kak anymore….waste of time, really is.
18 Nov 2012, 13:39 pm
Spies is too soft for Meyer – he won’t be captain and he won’t start unless Vermeulen is injured. Thank god for small mercies.
18 Nov 2012, 13:40 pm
M Steyn, however, will start against England – and Taute will be at 13.
18 Nov 2012, 13:40 pm
@grant10-415:
Can’t agree more… Steyn will be back on Saturday and Spies cappie next year… Remember this day… a coach who will always be loyal to his boys…
18 Nov 2012, 13:41 pm
@kaksioek-416:
Spies will be back… It is indeed Meyer who converted him into an eigthman…
18 Nov 2012, 13:44 pm
@Hondo-408:
Personally I think the danger in the Boks winning all 3 matches is that HM will feel vindicated in his selections and game plan.
I realize it sounds terrible to say that sometimes the Boks losing might save us from him in the long run.
18 Nov 2012, 13:46 pm
@nortierd-420:
I get your point… Most do!
18 Nov 2012, 13:51 pm
I see his latest quote is “winning ugly wins tournaments”
Guess that is true, but surely in between on these types of tours with no trophy to play for you can try something new and exciting?
Seeing us kick the penalty to touch on 80 minutes and seeing the French tap and go on 80 minutes sums up our mindset as pedantic and boring to a tee
18 Nov 2012, 13:52 pm
With the way Springboks are playing they might as well put out this team next year:
15 Taute
14 Spies
13 M Coetzee
12 De Villiers
11 Kanko
10 F Steyn
09 Pienaar
8 Vermuelen
7 Burger
6 Louw
5 Etsebeth
4 Bakkies
3 Jannie
2 Bissie
1 Beast
16 Strauss
17 Cilliers
18 Coenie
19 Bekker
20 Alberts
21 Duvenaghe
22 M Steyn
23 Kirchner
The only player under 1.9m in the backline is the SH and he’s 1.88m tall.
18 Nov 2012, 13:55 pm
@mxhosa-423:
You may just give the coach some ideas…He is lacking in it lately…
18 Nov 2012, 13:57 pm
I reckon all fit this would be HMs team
1. Beast 2. Strauss 3. Jannie 4. Etsebeth 5. Matfield 6. Burger 7. Arno 8. Spies
9. FdP 10. Morne 11. Habana 12. Frans 13. JF 14. JdV 15. Taute/Kirch
I think he seriously rates Strauss, even over Bismarck, cos he is a supreme hardworking disciple who goois maar fasten lekker accurate darts.
He’s got so many posi’s went it’s not even true – flo was an afterthought, brussow has ben totally passed over, deon fourie and elstadt are not even in the picture, de Jong and kolisi are players he doesn’t mind having but he feels ge has better, which he doesn’t. These are form players that are not being selected and gave given wp the 80% + win record for 2 consecutive years that alluded even the bulls in their prime.
He’s selecting on average 3 wp players for every test match despite tge statistics and results (his big love) indicating completely the opposite.
Hougaard, goosen, jdj, jp, frans – this is where the boks attack should centre around – the only 2 he’s got right are frans and goosen but he’s gameplan completely stifles it.
18 Nov 2012, 14:12 pm
@cab-425:
Hougaard completely out of form and it would appear not up to it at international level especially at 9, the Goose is made of glass and completely unproven at the highest level, Frans Steyn is not an international 12 to slow and one dimensional he’s a 15, JPP well the punters were calling him the best back in the world only a few weeks ago on KEO that space has gone very quiet, your backs are just awful to watch you must cringe Cabbie!!
18 Nov 2012, 14:13 pm
1. Beast 2. D fourie/Brits 3. Cilliers 4. Alberts 5. Eben 6. Flo 7. Kolisi 8. Vermeulen
9. Hougaard 10. Goosen 11. Rhule 12. De Jong 13. JP 14. JF 15. Frans
I reckon they’d destroy currnt team
jannie dup is playing v well at mo tho it must be said, and heinke was an outstanding selection – SA got some magnifico props at moment.
Flo is skitterend, thought so when I first saw him, got everything – but brussow should be there too – this could be by far tge most talented side in world rugby, better even than the ABs on talent, not just gees.
18 Nov 2012, 14:16 pm
NzinCn
that’s cos our supremo domfkop is selecting him at wing when he’s a joost scrumhalf on speed. Tell you what he’s still a bladdy good wing – made a try-saving tackle yesterday in 2nd half – scots coulda had that game – such is tge bullshit defensive-minded approach they adopting – I hate this ****.
18 Nov 2012, 14:28 pm
Imagine – what other team got:
1. Beast gurthro heinke
2. Bismarck, D fourie, Brits
3. Cilliers Jannie
4. Elstadt, alberts, flip, bakkies
5. Etsebeth, Kruger, bekker
6. Flo, brussow, d fourie
7. Alberts, Kolisi, Burger
8. Vermeulen
9. Hougaard
10. Goosen piennar
11. Habana rhule
12. Frans JdJ serfontein
13. JdJ, JP, Jf, JdV
14. JP, jdV, JF
15. Frans, Taute, Aplon, Kirchener
it’s an embaressment of riches – a 58% return with even half those players available and scraping against understeength irelad and Scotland is pisspoor.
18 Nov 2012, 14:30 pm
@ChineseGuy: doubt jpp @ your peril, he’s come back from injury & played in 2 Tests where the team struggled to get any width and you”re already gleefully mocking him…FO.
18 Nov 2012, 14:36 pm
Nick Mallet summed it all up the best post match.
If you are going to bash at the first channel over and over, then you may as well play Alberts at centre.
And that Lambie is clearly playing under instruction.
Heyneke Meyer is trying to implement a game plan that is outdated and horribly ineffective.
Anybody who is celebrating the ugliness of yesterdays win is disillusioned.
And Meyer’s assertion that winning ugly, wins tournaments is naive in the extreme. It may have won currie cups and super rugby 5 years ago, but it will not win you tests against the All Blacks.
18 Nov 2012, 14:53 pm
@Transformation-430:
settle down tranny it was your countrymen calling him the best back in the world after a few good performances, your backs are farking awful the whole world can see that, i’d rather watch a good hard fought match of womans lawn bowls than Bokke back play
18 Nov 2012, 14:55 pm
@cab-428:
he might be a decent winger but he’s not an international 9
18 Nov 2012, 15:01 pm
@nortierd-420:
I beg to the difference and I have my earning to back it up!
HM’s previous 4 Test victories came from the substantial assistance of corrupted referees on the taking
Last two winnings were achieved against slightly hostile, biased test referees, BIG DIFFERENCE!
18 Nov 2012, 15:05 pm
@NZINCHINA-432: Not that they care if you do watch them or not
@NZINCHINA-433: Yep, rubbish 9
@Vetkoek-431: Don’t jut blame Meyer and hs game plan, a game plan does not make a player take their time to kick, or pass or run
18 Nov 2012, 15:10 pm
@Gumboots-424:
HM is winning now, it all that matters, it may upset some, yourself too?
18 Nov 2012, 15:11 pm
@Hondo-436:
Well against the 9th and 10th best team I would actually hope so…
18 Nov 2012, 15:13 pm
@Vetkoek-431: these rock species are doomed to extinction yet they wanna go down clutching at the rock of Gibraltar around their neck as a keepsake memento
@cab-427: sounds suspiciously like my kinda team you punting there look like you eventually came around to singing from the skopskiet hymn sheet
@Heavens Game-405: wakey wakey.. so one more eye opening revelation by the man who was so convinced this was your long lost messiah gonna take you by the hand and lead you to your promised land.. so where were you when I was busy telling you I told you so?
18 Nov 2012, 15:13 pm
@JL1-435:
JL how can your backline play be so bad, we can’t blame it all on Meyer and the game plan, there aren’t any real game breakers that’s the problem, all this talk of JPP he’s done nothing in a Bokke jersey for years, compare them with NZ the ultimate game breaker DC, Nonu who can bust right through them, Smith the ultimate tactician and the game breakers Dagg, Jane, Savea, Gear
18 Nov 2012, 15:13 pm
@JL1-435:
I beg to differ. A game plan that goes against a players natural instinct can horribly neuter their ability.
Lambie is playing a game that he has never been seen trying to implement at any other level, so it is clearly under instruction. It does not come naturally to him though. All Meyer has done is swap a horribly out of form and ineffective Steyn for a player who is superior in his ability to unleash a backline and bring those around him into play… only to ask that player to try and play like a Morne Steyn?????
18 Nov 2012, 15:16 pm
@JL1-435: you also bought into this dead end garbage hook line and sinker.. guess once dyed in the wool of the laager mentality there no way outa there even when you think you spread your wings and saw life through the eyes of the enlightened ones the conditioning remains what it is.
18 Nov 2012, 15:18 pm
@NZINCHINA-439:
I disagree mate. JPP has been in very good form in the last few seasons. JDV was in excellent form last year and for much of this year. Lambie has been in excellent form for the Sharks. JDJ is a fantastically talented attacking player and their can be no disputing that Habana has been excellent in the last 6 months.
But the instructions are clear. Kick everything and chase it down. We have a guy playing 15 who is absolutely useless and a scrummie who used to snipe and look for the break who is now kicking everything. A flyhalf who comes from the most enterprising backline in SA who is kicking everything? They are having this coached into them at the Boks.
18 Nov 2012, 15:22 pm
@NZINCHINA-439: Easy. Your backs have the playing pattern which allows them to express themselves at test level and they are used to doing so. Hell, it’s only been in the last few years that our players have got used to doing it again at Super level; that needs to be transferred to Test level where the margin for error is less. The Bok backs are on training wheels and it is helluva sad to see.
18 Nov 2012, 15:24 pm
@Vetkoek-442: It is sad because we can do it. The boks pre-1989, the Boks of WC ’95, 1997, 1998, 2007 (WC) could all do it. What did all these teams have in common? Coaches which valued backline play. Cecil Moss, Gysie Pienaar, Alan Solomon, Eddie Moans…
And who do we have now? Ricardo with a forwards coach being the attack coach. It’s enough to drive me to drink.
18 Nov 2012, 15:25 pm
The actual root of the problem in that back line is Pienaar
Pienaar is the crux and cause of the entire back line dilemma
Pienaar’s only position of value he could have offered to SA rugby was at 10 not at 9
all these dumb debilitated FdP disciple arsecreeps cannot see the wood for the trees and Pienaar is just busy stuffing traditional Springbok rugby in the eye and cutting it down at the knees..under HM’s one dimensional dead end strategy.
Meyer is one dumb bloody hopeless imbecile.. he is simply not a rugby guru’s backside..
He will lead the Boks into the mire where they will drown and suffocate on their own lack of ingenuity and dead end deficiencies..
The only possibility to get out of this vice grip of one dimensional staid and dead ended nowheresville is get Pienaar out of scrum half and play Hougaard there..
Next stop instructing Lambie to hoof the ball into the air and let him play his natural game.. if that is not a possibility then find another fly half, Jantjies or Goosen.. or Pienaar.. or even Peter Grant at a push….not Morne Steyn
JDJ must play at 12.. not 13, JdV out to 13 or 14 and can switch with JPP who can rotate at 13
Rhule to 11 rotate with Habana and Mvovo, Aplon can cover either wing or FB off bench.
15 between F Steyn and Taute or Kirchner at last resort.
18 Nov 2012, 15:28 pm
@skopdiekan-445: JdJ to 12 and bring back Jacque Fourie for 13 !
18 Nov 2012, 15:29 pm
@skopdiekan-445: And get someone like Garth Wright roped in to show Hougaard how scrummies should play.
18 Nov 2012, 15:30 pm
@Vetkoek-431:
Mallett may ignore the fact that HM was his forwards coach and learned his trade under his and Solomons’ tutalage with Ballie Swarts as the front line coach.
And JW did just the same
18 Nov 2012, 15:35 pm
I wonder what some franchise coaches are thinking – especially Plum… Players do want to play for the Boks, and to play for the Boks, players quite obviously need to play a certain way…
This is a normal requirement for Bok coaches – but I wonder with the extremes of game programming undertaken, that if players start playing differently for their franchises to how they are programmed to play for the Boks, that they feel they jeopardise their chances to play for the Boks…
I can just imagine – Plum asking for a play it as you see it counter attack and Pat turns around and says “but in this quadrant of the field the best decision is…”
Fuckit
18 Nov 2012, 15:44 pm
WE WON !!!!!!!!!!!
People ****** if we win…..people ****** if we lose…WTF
A lot of unhappy miseries out there that like complaining. Try be a bit more positive in life and you will be happier for it.
18 Nov 2012, 15:48 pm
Yes, Pienaar is the problem
JDV us the other problem, should not be in the team
Lambie is not shaping, gameplan or no gameplan…if you cannot think for himself then he needs to go back to the guppies, end of
You either make the step up or you don’t.Keegan Daniels also showed that he could not man up
18 Nov 2012, 15:48 pm
@Heavens Game-405:
‘the Borg’…
you’re a larf Hg, but i must say i love the imagery and association created when comparing the boks to the borg.
they are far and away one of my most favourite alien science fictional races and no other scifi phrase is quite as fun as; ‘resistance is futile, assimilation is inevitable’.. hahaha.
clearly the work of a slightly overactive, and possibly drunk, HG imagination. your lovechild needs to get his s.hit together bigtime from what i’ve seen so far,
both morne and goosen shade the boy.
@JL1-435:
the funny things is when goosen played TO INSTRUCTIONS the keo kenners saw what they wanted to see as an explanation for his sublime linebreaks and when lambie played TO THE SAME INSTRUCTIONS the keo kenners had other handy ‘explanations’ as to why he did not/could not do the same.
18 Nov 2012, 15:48 pm
@NZINCHINA-432: don’t watch them if you’re only going to come here and be a t.wat about it.
18 Nov 2012, 15:49 pm
@Hondo-448: Meyer is not a head coach’s back side and its showing bad.. and dumb klutzes like you and the rest of the anti De Jongh brigade are singing his praises..
Mallet was seething with rage at the sheer inept useless inadequacies of this dumb caught in the headlights of his own deficiency moron not being able to step out of the fear induced straight jacket he has wound around his head and shoulders for outright petrified frozen fear at the thought of losing
Had Scotland taken their kicks I reckon they might have won yesterday.. and by the tale of the stats second half they should have…
HM might have been a reasonable forwards coach in his day but as a head coach of a country that requires far more latitude of thinking that he would ever be capable of utilizing he is one pitiful abject failure and is showing outright lack at being capable to bridge the gap between a one dimensional forwards coach and an out of the box thinking general and strategist and clear sighted fearless head coach.. His decisions and play patterns are bordering on utter conservative cowardice and he is pushing Streauli and Markgraaf hard for the title of the worst stuck in the ideological syndrome of dead end fear induced deficient Bok coach of all time.
18 Nov 2012, 15:49 pm
Ou doosie
You reckon hey – nope the only one you right on is D fourie. Elstadt also should be selected but as susspected maybe not worldclass yet.
The others I woulda had in a couple of years ago already.
18 Nov 2012, 15:50 pm
@Treehugger-450:
So did the Democrats…
18 Nov 2012, 15:51 pm
@452
Yes, we all see what we wanna see, my eyes saw not much of HGs love child as you so kindly pointed out
18 Nov 2012, 15:52 pm
@Treehugger-450: Name me one thing to be positive about the backline play in the last two games.
18 Nov 2012, 15:53 pm
I think Gaffie had more talent!
18 Nov 2012, 15:54 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-452: Goosen played his more natural game. Lambie played far more robotically.
18 Nov 2012, 15:54 pm
I laughed as I read one or two know-nothings like Iluvubakkies and tacitus, try to slimily slip in some criticism of Lambie.
Lets be very clear Tac, Lambie has the ability to execute what is perceived as ‘Meyers gameplan’ far far far better than Steyn.
Think about it…… he gets his kicks at goal.
Steyn’s goal kicking has been shocking. Tactical kicking, they are similar with Lambie ahead due to variation of play and imagination.
When you consider that Lambie is the best defensive flyhalf with maybe Grant pushing him, it is clear that Lambie would be, and is, streets ahead of Steyn at executing this so called Meyers Game plan.
However. Lambie has far far more in terms of playing flat and attacking the gainline, getting a backline moving and game management.
He has done exactly the right thing by playing a simple, understated and effective gameplan in these first few tests. For a 21 year old, starting at flyhalf away in Europe, he has done brilliantly and will continue to grow in stature. Lambie can introduce his natural game at the correct pace.
Honestly….if you don’t know rugby, rather hou jou bek.
18 Nov 2012, 15:55 pm
Mallet can scream as much as he wants, not much better when he criticised Gaffie and Dave von H, or selecting his favourites and dropping the captain before a RWC
Now he has lots to say in the cheap seats
18 Nov 2012, 15:55 pm
@skopdiekan-454: Wish I had seen Mallett’s analysis. The BBC naturally didn’t show it and I can#t find it on youtube.
18 Nov 2012, 15:56 pm
@JL1-462: Mallett learnt from his mistakes quickly and his record is far superior.
18 Nov 2012, 15:59 pm
@Brendope-461:
He is 22 and was utter K.A.K in both tests. Little pea shooters 20m in to the air and maybe 10m forward and average line clearance of maybe 15 m
Any FH in SA can Do better!
He completely folds under pressure!
18 Nov 2012, 15:59 pm
@464
Maybe he will get another chance to coach the Boks and then we can see if he has learnt his lessons
18 Nov 2012, 16:01 pm
@mikeybrass-463:
Mallet calls it how it is… He doesn’t pretend all is kosher…
He said you might as well play Alberts at centre if you wan’t to stick to this outdated game plan.
Now you get a few here with blinkers and think that winning against such opposition is like the second coming… Fact of the matter is our rugby is regressing so fast, unlike the days when Mallet won 17 in a row… I doubt we will ever see that record being beaten with this coach or coaching staff…
18 Nov 2012, 16:02 pm
@cab-455: that team you selected there is my team down to the last player.. if I were selecting a team those the players I would have chosen so since when you been seeing rugby along the same trajectory as me.. ? took you long enough to come around to my way of thinking, but like HG and his assertions that HM was the messiah that was going to bring the Boks to their promised land only a few moths ago.. and now has started singing the exact opposite tune, I won’t go claiming any more I tol you so’s till it gets clearly shown how right I was all along.
15 – Taute, F. Steyn, Lambie, A. Coetsee, W. Le Roux, Aplon
14 – JPP, JdV, Aplon, Taute
13 – JdV, JPP, Mapoe, Serfontein, Jordaan
12 – JdJ, Serfontein, F. Steyn, De Allende
11 – Rhule, Habana, W. Le Roux, Aplon
10 – Goosen, Jantjies, Pienaar, W. Le Roux, A. Coetsee, Lambie, Grant
9 – Hougaard, Pretorius, Groom
8 – Vermeulen, A. Botha, M. Coetsee
7 – Psdt, A. Botha, M. Coetsee, Alberts, Elstadt
6 – F. Louw, Brussow, D. Fourie
5 – Etsebeth, Bekker, Franco Vd Merwe
4. – Elstadt, Alberts, Psdt, Bresler
3 – Cilliers, JdP, Mujati
2 – Bismark, D. Fourie, S. Brits, Strauss
1. – Steenkamp, Janse Van Rensburg, Heinke, Kitschoff
18 Nov 2012, 16:03 pm
@465
Exactly, no game plan to mention when you have to kick to get distance, he needs to man up
18 Nov 2012, 16:03 pm
@Gumboots-456: pity it wasn’t Hilary Clinton
18 Nov 2012, 16:05 pm
Fark this… these Meyer acolytes can have their “winning rugby” bullshitt… I dont have to like it…
and I dont like it…
Far better for rugby to be played the way the Pumas and France are playing…
I will continue supporting the Boks with obligation but i will watch and support other teams with enjoyment…
The only challengers to the ABs are France… Boks must content themselves with beating the Aussies more regularly… A win against the ABs will be rare under Meyer…
18 Nov 2012, 16:05 pm
@Treehugger-470:
Hehe!!! How ya doin? Watched a great programme on ‘tree culling’ in the Amazon and went right outside and hugged a few…
18 Nov 2012, 16:06 pm
@Hondo-448: ignore you say? no hondo mallett CALLED first before meyer had coached even one game!
31 May 2012
Mallett: Meyer’s style will stifle players creativity
Mallett says Meyer would stick to his accurate
kicking game and Springbok scrumhalf Du
Preez would be a crucial proponent of his
plans.
“You have to have the best box kicker or
tactical kicker in world rugby for him to be
successful and that is why he is banking on
Fourie, also Fourie knows his personality,”
Mallett said.
“I think it is going to be a very conservative
team and a conservative game plan.
“He’ll be happy to win 25-18 with a handful
of penalties, a drop goal and a breakaway
try.”
Mallett said fans should not expect
enterprising backline play from the Boks in
the first three Tests under Meyer.
i guess mallett was wrong in only thinking stampkar will only last the england series.
18 Nov 2012, 16:09 pm
@Treehugger-450:
hear hear
have a bells
18 Nov 2012, 16:10 pm
@skopdiekan-468: I laugh at your hypocrisy and flip floppery… the most programmed team in SA was the Stormers through S15… no wonder Proudfoot nearly had awank in the studio… the Boks are playing the Stormers way who are copying the Bulls…
Farken rugby heathen
18 Nov 2012, 16:13 pm
@mikeybrass-460:
and this is the coaches fault..?.
18 Nov 2012, 16:13 pm
HG
The coach is not the be all and end all, LAmbie and Pienaar must pull themselves towards themselves and shape up or ship out
18 Nov 2012, 16:14 pm
@skopdiekan-468:
not your way of thinking, your way of thinking would not have alberts or concentrated on some heavy hitters in the pack. you picked everyone thats new under the sun – i would had de jong and hougaard and flo way before you okes. fourie was your one star pick – but he needed to be watched cos he was a tad small but he is unbelievably good – its a crying shame that he cant even get into bok squad – imo boks currently got the three best hookers in world rugby, and two of the most exciting in brits and fourie who are having to playing 2nd fiddle to an overweight player who is good but not in their league.
the new english hooker looks outstanding too – watch that bugger, he’s going to rip into the boks.
18 Nov 2012, 16:14 pm
@Heavens Game-475:
At least the Stormers have the players to match the game plan… Now that is the difference…
Province also won the Currie Cup and the Conference trophy… Now which team could match that?
18 Nov 2012, 16:15 pm
@mikeybrass-463: He was f’ng angry and I was just as angry.. the man is passionate about Bok rugby and when he sees it being p1ssed against the wall of conservative cowardice the way it has stagnated into one dead end syndrome of 9 man rugby.. not even 10 man rugby .. Bok rugby stops at scrum half that where it ends..
the backs are not even a meager feature of events and Mallet is quite correct.. if Meyer is looking for kick and charge rugby protagonists to force the advantage through the gain line by sheer weight of mass over agility then rather play Alberts and Etsebeth at center.. that way you sure to achieve your target at breaching the gain line.. they will be far more efficient at Meyers game plan than any of De Jongh or JdV or Any back line player required to carry out the task
Rather just play 15 forwards because Meyers strategies have no use for any one bearing any thinking or off loading or game breaking capacity.
The devolution of rugby since Mallets team of 98 to now is as retrograde and deficient as any one would ever hope to ever accept.. and the chief proponents of the degradation and devolution were White, PdV under player management of Smit, Matfield and FdP, and now Meyer following in the same downward projecting spiral
The entire country is up in arms about it.. only a very few die hard Bulls supporters still support this garbage and I reckon its going to blow.
18 Nov 2012, 16:16 pm
forgetting that lambie was playing to instruction for a second, his kicking was useless.
18 Nov 2012, 16:17 pm
@Brendope-461:
please refer post #265
@phil72-465:
it is harsh to say, but it is true.
there’s no point in his fans blaming the coach for his obvious and clear shortcomings shown this far.
18 Nov 2012, 16:18 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-482:
@Brendope-461:
please refer post #265 = please refer post #465
18 Nov 2012, 16:19 pm
@skopdiekan-445: wrong – he is part of the problem – the main cancer in the backline is Jean.
18 Nov 2012, 16:20 pm
@Heavens Game-475: You talk absolute garbage .. now you want to bring your pet hate Stormers into it..
I told you HM was going to fck Bok rugby into his nether plan of stereotype one dimensional Bulls patroon conservative dead ended deficiency right at the outset when he showed his hand with his first squad selection and you were at the forefront of the HM glory singers when he was picking your little sharkshit darlings.. now you suddenly catch a f’ng wake up and you wanna be the cheerleader of the hate HM brigade…
when you going to wake up BEFORE the fact.. not AFTER you awaken out your brain dead slumber.. stupid moron up your own sad flip flopping inconsistency
18 Nov 2012, 16:21 pm
I reckon even the die hard bittereinders are starting to question the HM game plan…..
Fark it is a horrible way to play the game….
I wonder how some of those Bok players must be feeling having to carry out these staid and predictable tactics?
18 Nov 2012, 16:22 pm
@phil72-465:
Your parents must be dissapointed they produced a waste of space like you.
Lambie played very well yesterday. He showed great variation in his kicking game early on, adapted to the Scots trying to rush up by keeping it direct, probing behind and correctly playing territory. He had a very good defensive performance (a million miles away from what morne has proved himself capable of) and kicked his his goals, missing one. (don’t make me say it again)
He is growing in each game, and his natural style is becoming more and more apparent.
Meyer should select Lambie at 10 next week, he is playing well and deserves it.
With Lambie at ten, we should beat England.
18 Nov 2012, 16:22 pm
@mikeybrass-458: Not the point….take joy from the fact we still won even if it was not up to the standard that you want. There is so must to be miz about in the world and this was a victory for a team you support.
Nothing you do or say is going to change the way the game is being played or the players selected. I am pretty certain the coach has more knowledge than any of us about the game. Right or wrong he is doing it his way and it will be his head on a platter if things should implode. Right now we number 2 in the world rankings and NZ is always difficult to pass and they don’t have the politics in any form like us to deal with be it the choosing of to many players from certain provinces or not enough POC,s or to many POC,s.
They just have to worry about their hairstyles and the color of their boots they want to wear on the day.
18 Nov 2012, 16:23 pm
bresler and franco should not be there, kitshoff i called first up, but needs to be watched for a season or two yet, heinke looked outstanding, cillers v good said so way before any of you, but perhaps not got the size to be wordclass but def worth a shot and i think is better than jan dup who is making me eat my word a bit under meyer, but still not in the worldclass league. Janse got massive heart, but not worldclass. Your first 3 choices at 7 are not worldclass blindsider, not by a long shot, far too light. Only worldclass one’s we have are Alberts, Juan if fit and maybe Kolisi with a few tests under his belt. your scum,halves are good, i called groom before you, but he still needs to be watched, s pretorius is v good u right there, but maybe missed his chance, they treated him wrong too, jantjies and lambie ordinary, goosen special, watch willie and coetzee another season but not sure they flhalves, one of those twins from the freestate would make v good running flyhalf until goosen pushed him out
18 Nov 2012, 16:24 pm
Seems like the coach is being conveniently blamed for your shite backline play as PDV was blamed for all your losses in 08/10 and 11, your backs just don’t have the same vison and skill set as NZ backs hence the reason why they score very few tries against quality teams, if the game plan is to blame how does that then explain your lack of tries from broken play where a moment of indvidual brilliance can bust a game open like we see just about everytime the Ab’s play, or are we blaming Meyer for that as well?
18 Nov 2012, 16:24 pm
@Transformation-481:
i could swear there was one line kick which he took after a free kick/penalty to the boks which after making about five meters in distance, the touch judge was then still obligated to set the lineout the mandatory five or so meters fron the point at which the ball had crossed the line…. so basically the boks ended going absolutely farking nowhere… they might as well have just taken the lineout right where they were… oh wait… they did take the lineout right where they were.
18 Nov 2012, 16:25 pm
next year going to be more of the same…..watch HM get FDP, M Steyn, Spies back in the mix….
skop en jag to a whole new level….
18 Nov 2012, 16:28 pm
@Gumboots-472: hahahahaha ja makes you want to howl when the tree comes down and all you have is a barren landscape with no beauty or that sustains so many life forms.
18 Nov 2012, 16:29 pm
@Slumtown-484: You are wrong.. Pienaar is the root cause of the problem.. not De Villiers… De Villiers is playing in wrong position but so are about 50% of Meyers run on team
Hougaard must go back to 9, and Groom or Pretorius should be on bench
Goosen or Jantjies to 10.. and Pienaar could actually contribute from 10 which is where I would have kept him since 2009 I would never have dropped Pienaar for Steyn back then already… You people are all retrograde.. you don’t see where the problem actually transpires its in the selection process and the deficient game strategy..
Pienaar at 9 is the first port of fallout.. that is directly where Bok backline play gets nullified from the very first phase of play..
Change Pienaar for Hougaard, and you will see an immediate difference.. but if HM continues to play his old 2007 play patterns he will never get any joy out of any one.
JdV must play at 13 or 14 where he can switch with JPP for more direction through the back line and De Jongh at 12. Mapoe can also contribute from 13 as so could Jordaan or Serfontein, but De Jongh should play at 12 ahead of JdV who should play at 13 or even at wing.
The real cause of the entire back line deficiency is Pienaar that is where it starts and ends… The Back line will NEVER progress as long as either Pienaar or FdP play at no.9 that is where Bok rugby gets killed off at the source of everything before it gets past the slow thinking general at the base of the scrum.
18 Nov 2012, 16:29 pm
As for whether meyer was going to be a fkup, no-one really knew, you give ppl the benefit of the doubt, there were moments against england when the Boks looked sublime, in fact i cant remember seeing a better performance – however, the pressure is getting him more and more conservative – white succumbed eventually but meyer is even more conservative.
meyer knows how to drill the forward, jannie du plessis playing amazing well under him, all the pack are, but his selections are poor – as for the backline play that is completely worrying, he’s basically got 55% of the job done, which is why we getting 55% win results – with this set of players you cant really go that wrong but he’s def not maximising it.
etsebeth has been a revelation, who knew he was going to come thru so quickly but he should be playing at 5. Kruger is not a test tight 5 player tho got a big workrate so keep him on bench – we need a cleaner lock in there as andrews points out.
18 Nov 2012, 16:30 pm
The difference in our winning rugby and the AB’s winning rugby is the opposition fears and respects them. They have the ruthless streak we clearly lack.
When sides like Scotland talk up their chances of beating us and believe they have a shot, we need to do introspection.
I’m obviously all for us winning, but we would all like to see something more than our current one track pony.
18 Nov 2012, 16:31 pm
@skopdiekan-494:
why do your backs score no tries from broken play either?
18 Nov 2012, 16:35 pm
474@I love Bakkies…..no thanks..am of booze…had birthday bashes Wednesday, Thursday and big one last night…..the highlight seeing an award winning humanitarian Doctor just past middle age doing the Gangnam thing up and down the Deck…..tears were rolling down faces with laughter and to much booze.
18 Nov 2012, 16:38 pm
morne to start next saturday!
18 Nov 2012, 16:39 pm
patrick lambie is an inside center to my mind
he has the makings of a brilliant center, without the pressure of kicking and/or decision making at 10.
at worst a fullback
18 Nov 2012, 16:41 pm
HMs comment about being a young team is a bit of a stretch, unless by young he means the newness of his squad, as I only noticed EE and Lambie as young in the starting side and Marcel on the bench.
18 Nov 2012, 16:41 pm
@cab-489: ip I left out Kolisi,, he would auton=matically be at 7 before either of Coetsee or Botha.. but those are the best young loose forwards coming through
Kolisi, M. Coetsee who offered far more than Alberts when he came on yesterday injecting far more aggression and dynamism to the cover tackle and the ball carry role.. and Arno Botha.. and the accurate read of that situation is all of those youngsters are retreaded 8′s they all played No.8 in their youth rugby… Alberts is too heavy for a 7 for more than 30 minutes he should switch to 4.
PSDT will be the next No.7 No.4 hybrid with a little more speed than either of Elstadt or Alberts.. Psdt maybe closer to Juan Smith than even you realize.
My start Bok team
F. Steyn
JPP
Fourie / JdV
De Jongh
Habana
Goosen
Hougaard
Vermeulen
Kolisi
Louw
Etsebeth
Alberts
Cilliers
Bismark
Gurthro
Heinke, Fourie, JdP, (Elstadt / PSDT), Coetsee, Groom, (Lambie / Taute / Serfontein), (Rhule / Mapoe)
18 Nov 2012, 16:41 pm
It’s a pity that there is no Barbarian match this year.
Would love to see Lambie picked at 10 with instructions to go for it against a team like the AB’s.
One way of settling the debate as to whether he belongs or doesn’t.
I believe he can become a great with more open minded coaches and a different gameplan,
FH should call the shots on the field without fear of failing or fear of upsetting the coach
18 Nov 2012, 16:42 pm
@Treehugger-498:
congrats, sounds like you guys had an absolute ball of a time and you clearly ‘earned’ your right to go off booze for a bit.
18 Nov 2012, 16:43 pm
cab: skop was one of the people singing meyer’s praises when he was appointed and doing 1 on 1 gesig to gesig wankathon meetings with players earlier in the year.
18 Nov 2012, 16:43 pm
lambie is too slow off the mark, he’s a good player, but he’s fundamental lack of pace counts against him becoming a great, never going to ghost into gaps like larkham or carter – he’s probably akin to mike catt in that he’s strngth is that he distributes very well, but meyer has managed to stifle that with an insistence on kicking when not exactly in the right field position, which is hardly ever.
18 Nov 2012, 16:43 pm
@cab-495:
Pieter de V probably has more influence on the front row than HM.
18 Nov 2012, 16:44 pm
@Transformation-505:
yep i know – ou doosie the groot bullduster.
18 Nov 2012, 16:44 pm
@skopdiekan-494: well firstly Houghaard has played 9 on numerous occasions and every single time the problems were the same – slow distribution, indecision and very slow boxkicks getting charged down on numerous occasions. How moving him back there will sort anything out is beyond me – Houghaard is a cr@p scrumhalf end of. Pienaar is there precisely because he was so poor. Now Pienaar is not much better but marginally yes. Pienaar has never had the mental fortitude to be a 10.
De Villiers on wing? And you complain about Heyneke playing people out of position – the guy is way too old and slow to be a wing. Why play him in wing when you have perfectly good wings such as JPP, Habana, Mvovo and Rhule? Doesnt even begin to make sense. He is better at 13 – he seems to be less selfish with the ball for some reason at 13. 12 he is not. The ball got killed every single time it got to him at 12 (which it did on numerous occasions) ergo the backline play gets killed right there where he goes to ground with the ball – De Jongh got 2 passes the whole game and broke the line with the first one. Terribly sorry but Jean is the problem in Boks and Stormer backlines for not scoring tries. Once Frans Steyn is back its him, and hopefully Jan Serfontein – id keep De Jongh as a possible 12 or 13 if we could get Jacques Fourie back at 13 and draft in Ebersohn or Jordaan as backup. In fact the only position I could envisage Houghaard making any headway in the Bok setup is at 13.
In principle I agree with most of what youre saying but De Villiers is the main prob in our backline and Pienaar nor Houghaard are any better.
18 Nov 2012, 16:45 pm
Seems no one can answer the broken play question, the answers pretty simple, goodnight.
18 Nov 2012, 16:46 pm
@skopdiekan-502:
coetsee is not what you need, the balance is not right because our tight 5 is not right, but when alberts came off the scots were all over us, i dunno what the possession stats were but we got no attack whatsoever, coetsee is too light, he runs hard but they stop him dead. There is a place for Coetsee but then you gotta have a genuinie tight 5, not teddy and the two locks picked to start – this is why meyer is having to pick a slightly too heavy tight 5 that is getting worn out early on.
18 Nov 2012, 16:47 pm
sorry, slighty too heavy backrow.
18 Nov 2012, 16:47 pm
@JL1-466: Mallet doesn’t have to prove anything, he’s already done it all. Superb win/loss record coaching the Boks, longest winning streak for ANY test team since professionalism with the Boks, Tri Nations, had the Boks playing proper 15 man rugby where they weren’t regarded as pantomine villains, bores and flat track bullies. Didn’t win the world cup but so what, the Boks were never more feared or respected than under his reign.
18 Nov 2012, 16:48 pm
@cab-495: I gave him the benefit of the doubt till his first squad selection with Potgieter and Spies and Kankowski and his closed mind to Brussow and Kolisi and De Jongh and Aplon along with his insistence of playing M. Steyn and his cry out for help from FdP and Matfield.. that is when I knew already that this coach is going to take a LONG way around to learn what it takes to coach a Bok team from inception.. trial and error knee jerk reactions later and we now have Louw, Vermeulen in the mix but his back line strategy is a LONG way from ever coming right..
At Bulls in 2007 he had Tod Louden showing him what to do.. now he has to rely on his own rugby acumen for any ideas and he is sorely lacking in any creativity anywhere near his brain dead calculations.
18 Nov 2012, 16:49 pm
@Transformation-499:
i dont know if you’re stirring here or not, transie
but, from a rugby point of view i would pick morne at 10 too. if lambie’s having jitters he needs to get over them in super rugby and make sure that when he gets another shot he takes it with both hands in the way goosen has.
still feel he’s more a 12 (even if its a hybridised kiwi 2nd 5/8th version) than a bok style 10, or a 15 at the worst (which isn’t a bad thing).
18 Nov 2012, 16:50 pm
@David-507:
maybe you right actually – but **** even heinke is looking outstanding, did you see him plough in there yesterday – we got some bladdy good props at the moment, cj always had problems with the scrummy but a decent selection – need to have some regte egte tight 5′s – im surprised meyer actually picked him such is his need for discipline. poor old flip proably not going to get picked again when that is exactly what is needed v the scots, he should be starting at 4 v england with etsebeth at 5.
18 Nov 2012, 16:53 pm
@Transformation-505: what.. wtf you talking about now? when was I singing Meyers praises.. the only time I backed Meyer was when White took a swipe at him .. or when Matfield said he was a better coach than White a while back before he ever became Bok coach..
the moment I saw his first squad I knew we were in a for a long learning curve under this slow learning nincompoop.
18 Nov 2012, 16:53 pm
PR: You’ve said publicly that the Springboks
rely on their forwards dominating their
opposition. There’s a popular catch phrase
doing the rounds suggesting that when that
doesn’t happen, there is no ‘plan B.’ These
days you can’t expect to dominate
physically every week, so does that mean
your plan is outdated?
HM: The need for dominance up front is
true of every side in world rugby. The All
Blacks struggled in Dunedin because our
forwards put them under pressure. If the
Wallabies play England and get smashed in
the scrums, their whole game suffers.
Even if you have a plan B, C, D and E,
you’re still going to struggle if your
forwards don’t dominate. Eight of the
fifteen guys in the side are forwards so if
they don’t play well, you’re in trouble,
especially if they can’t get you quick ball.
The kick-offs are the most important
because if you miss it, you’ll get kept in
your own half until the opposition scores.
So you can have a plan B, C and X if you
want, but if you don’t do the basics right,
you’re never going to win.
Plan ‘B’ is a fallacy. You should plan every
situation on its merits.
Johan Goosen did well at Loftus because he
got quality ball. There is no set game plan
where players are told to go out and kick
everything. You want them to read the
situation.
People think there are two types of rugby -
kick and run. That’s not true. Everyone
thinks we played fantastic attacking rugby
against Australia but we made 185 tackles!
That’s the most we’ve ever made. We
scored most of our tries from their
mistakes, because that’s where tries come
from – turnovers.
Ask any guy and he’ll say that because
Goosen was there we played ‘running
rugby’. We didn’t. They ran more than us.
But our defence was awesome and forced
them into errors to create opportunities.
People say we should just keep the ball all
the time, but you can’t. If the opposition
sends in one tackler and we need three
cleaners in a ruck, then after a few phases
there is a mismatch of numbers and you
have to kick.
ou heyneke is a HOOT…if they send on tackler then there’ll be a mismatch so play safety first rugby & get out of dodge!
18 Nov 2012, 16:55 pm
Lambie proved these past 2 games that he’s not an international flyhalf, he proved it under Pieter de Villiers and Now he proved it once again.. No reason for blaming HM for Lambie’s shortcomings.
You always have to follow a game plan!!!!! Goosen was more that able to fit in.
Lambie is maybe to one dimensional to alter his way of playing slightly. Goal kicking was OK, will give him that but his kicking in general play was way below par.
We all had this vision of Lambie becoming a world-class player that can change a game with good decision-making… We have been talking about it for 3 years now…. When will it happen?
HM is here to stay and if Bambie cannot play under his Game plan he obviously is not the right FH for the Job!
If he had speed we could have played him at 15, but that is also not the case!
18 Nov 2012, 16:57 pm
@Transformation-518:
HM can also talk maar kak – who thought they played excellent against australia? propaganda of the highest order = they played kak against australia and new zealand – where the Boks played excellent was against england who had to make twice as many tackles. meyer has not had one decent performance since the 2nd test v england. any time you have to make twice as many tackles, like the Boks did against Scotland yesterday, you know they played kak. that test could have gone either way yesterday, many times over.
18 Nov 2012, 17:00 pm
@cab-520: yep fully agree – the Boks have been dismal – their best moment that first half peformance vs England in the 2nd test. That was exciting stuff to watch. What happened since then god only knows.
18 Nov 2012, 17:00 pm
@Slumtown-484: Exactly… Well said… Not only for the Boks, but for the other teams he plays, as Munster found out soon enough and sent him homeward ta think again…
He proceeded to replace a very successful Juan De Jong to all Stormer supporters delight… That is why I laugh at their flip floppery when they have a hissy fit when is not first choice centre… He is not at the Stormers… If Mossie had to come back JdJ would find himself gathering splinters…
What price Taute ending up at 1st choice 13 next year, JdV 1st choice 12 and JdJ on the bench anyway…?
It can happen at the Stormers…
18 Nov 2012, 17:01 pm
@NZINCHINA-510: so why are you asking if you already know.
18 Nov 2012, 17:03 pm
If Meisiekind was still playing in SA it wouldnt surprise me in the slightest if he was first choice centre after the Bok cancer of the backline…
18 Nov 2012, 17:04 pm
@NZINCHINA-510: Can you not understand that players who are coached and encouraged to attack will be better at attacking than players who are coached and strongly discouraged to attack? If your first thought is to attack, you will be better at it when the opportunity presents itself than someone whose first thought is to kick the ball or run straight and set up a ruck. Why do you think the Boks are so much better than the ABs at rolling mauls? Pure chance? Meyer levels of stupidity.
18 Nov 2012, 17:05 pm
@Slumtown-521: who was the scrum half in that test.. go check it again.. it was HOUGAARD.. and that is PRECISELY why Boks were pumping on all cylinders that half a test,, because Hougaard was whipping the ball to the backs at flat out front foot dynamic service..
You numbskulls are all arse about face wrong way around.. now you and HG here reckon its De Villiers who is the cancer in the back line, when it is the two half backs.. Pienaar and Lambie or M. Steyn.. that is where the rot STARTS and sets in.. not at first center,, at SCRUMHALF.. and SECONDLY at 10.
18 Nov 2012, 17:09 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-500: Nothing wrong with Lambie at 10 for the Sharks…
Everything wrong with Lambie at 10 for the Boks playing a brain dead Bulls/Stormers (not WP currie cup) skop en jaag style of game…
Lambie is not the right player for this… Neither is Jantjies…
Maybe Goosen because he has that toemaak farken closed minded netjies tendency that the others can’t have… However unless they are pumping full of roids at this present moment he will break down again by about June next year if not sooner…
18 Nov 2012, 17:09 pm
@skopdiekan-526: ja ja he has his moments just a pity about all the rest isnt it?
18 Nov 2012, 17:10 pm
I could fix this team in two ticks I know exactly what is wrong with it
and the first problem area is definitely not JdV at center.. correct he should be at 13 not 12.. and de Jongh should be at 12 not 13.. but the first problem to fix here is directly behind the scrum where Hougaard must start and Groom or Reinach or Pretorius or someone as efficient in distribution is on the bench.
18 Nov 2012, 17:11 pm
@cab-520: Yeah the 2nd test against England- well, the first half of that game only, has been the only good Bok performance under HM’s watch where we were actually building towards something great. Quick ball from hougaard, big strike runners, retaining possession, good handling, spreading the ball a bit. That’s all it took and most of us were very happy on the day. So only one genuinely good half of rugby since Heyneke took over along with the trouncing of the Aussie C team at Loftus.
18 Nov 2012, 17:13 pm
@phil72-519: Of course he is not an international flyhalf – for the Boks, playing braindead in the pocket “quarterback” rugby…
No flyhalf will be an “international” flyhalf unless it is Morne Steyn or Derick Hougaard… or Johan Goosen… with a 70m line clearance ability.
You poor closed minded dumbfuck…
18 Nov 2012, 17:13 pm
@Slumtown-528: Hougaard should have been first choice scrum half in 2011 maybe even in 2010 ahead of FdP and Boks would have won the WC..
some you people can’t see actually where the game plan breaks down.. it is directly behind the scrum where HM is secretly seeking another FdP to run his kick chase game plan he still thinks will be successful 6 years later after it was the last time.
18 Nov 2012, 17:14 pm
skop: you can’t deny that both our starting Bok 12s are bloody ballhogs!!!
to make matters worse jean de villiers cannot even pass without the ball going forward! he did it australia last year, in durban and aplon scored vs sharks, twice vs australia @loftus. he currently is a LIABILITY!!!
18 Nov 2012, 17:15 pm
@skopdiekan-529: From this post it is clear as day, sharp as a hot knife through butter that you know absolutely farkall about backline play…
You’re clearly as closed minded as Heil Heynecke…
Farken blind supremacist apologist c*nt.
18 Nov 2012, 17:18 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-476: Goosen ignored the coach’s instructions. Lambie played Steyn Mark II.
18 Nov 2012, 17:19 pm
@Transformation-533: 100%. And no matter who the Bok 12s are – that is the way they are expected to play… Actually, maybe this suits JdV to a Tee… Dumbfuck route one reguit play with no requirement to pass the ball at all…
18 Nov 2012, 17:20 pm
Correct slumtown 520 and spies 530 – that was an outstandng perforamce – in fact, the only stat really worth monitoring is the no of tackles made because it tells you which team has go-forward and is playing rugby.
You keep defending like that and you will lose every other game you win against tier 2 oppo, and will lose everytime against tier 1 oppo.
18 Nov 2012, 17:21 pm
@skopdiekan-480: Thanks to you and the others for the summary of Mallett’s analysis.
There is distinct similarities between the way Meyer started his tenure at the Bulls and the way he has started with the Boks in terms of playing style. He has gone back to square 1.
18 Nov 2012, 17:22 pm
@Heavens Game-534: I know more about back line play than you will ever know.. I played both 9 and 10.. and Boks rugby starts and stops behind the scrum.. that is exactly where it breaks down you numbskull imbecilic arsehole that got f’all clue about wtf is ACTUALLY gone wrong…
9 and 10.. that is where Springbok rugby has stagnated since 2007 and that is precisely where the entire rot has set in and needs one massive re think overhaul.. Meyer and White and PdV ALL play a 10 man game where back line does not feature.. it stops at 9 or 10.. that is as far as Boks coaches can strategize or think.. No.9 and No.10.. further than that they are absolutely brain dead..
Just like morons such as this schmuckass HG who thinks he knows wtf is cutting when he don’t… HG was singing glory hallelujahs when Heyneke was appointed now he changed his tune.. like every other time I told him so.. I’m telling him again.
18 Nov 2012, 17:23 pm
I have to laugh at how the Boks were copying the Pumas style of game, the style they started the Rc that is, yesterday where they tried to set up a maul at every opportunity – even in midfield off a backline player…
Meanwhile, the Pumas have moved on from this way of play… Truly, Meyer and his braindead Blouballas, Stormers systematised rugby acolytes are taking Bok rugby backwards at a rate of knots…
18 Nov 2012, 17:24 pm
@Treehugger-488: Take joy from a team winning and showing they are evolving. So again, how can any enjoyment be taken from the devolution of Bok backline play?
18 Nov 2012, 17:25 pm
The harsh reality is that Heyneke Meyer is going no where. Well, not in a hurry. I have advocated giving him time and space, but my patience has become tested.
HM has these goals of being ranked #1 in the world, having an 80% winning record. What coach wouldn’t? The things is, Heyneke has surrounded himself with yes men who are there for the ride. If HM wants to achieve these lofty heights, then he has to bring in people who can challenge him. He is not going to do it on his own. If those people are unavailable locally, look globally. HM just has to break out of this conservative mind-set.
SARU are not going to fire HM. Just as many of us wanted PDiv’s head, SARU didn’t. Pdiv wanted to fire his assistants, HM should now consider doing the same.
18 Nov 2012, 17:25 pm
@NZINCHINA-490: Wrong players are being picked and it also has to do with the environment where players feel empowered to attack without fear of failure.
18 Nov 2012, 17:25 pm
England will beat us next week if they force us into making the amount of tackles we did against Scotland – in fact they will beat us comfortably if we don’t get go-forward and this is nit a great England pack – that truly is a young pack – far younger than current bok pack.
Dank die vader we not playing France on this tour.
18 Nov 2012, 17:26 pm
@Heavens Game-536: change scrum half and fly half and you see an immediate transition.. that is the cancer in Springbok rugby.. Pienaar and Lambie or M. Steyn.. can’t get their backs away..way too slow and way too one dimensional
Check how Freddy Michalak and his scrum half do it for the French.. or even the limited amateur Argy scrum half and his fly half.. they are passing to backs running at speed from depth.. Boks are flat as a pancake with nothing happening beyond 9 or 10.
18 Nov 2012, 17:27 pm
@skopdiekan-539: Not only do you know farkall as clearly indicated in your last post… You at best are fantasising about your knowledge for what, I dont know…maybe as one big egowank, at worst you are lying about it… Not just to me, but to yourself… Like Heil Heynecke and Herr Van Graan do with the Boks…
Wipe the shittt out of your own eyes, before trying to even attempt wiping the shittt out of anyone elses…
18 Nov 2012, 17:27 pm
@Heavens Game-531:
Both Lambie and Chillie should go and gain some valuable experience in Europe… They both could return better players!
18 Nov 2012, 17:28 pm
@Heavens Game-540: you were front of the cue singing the messiah has arrived.. since when did you change your tune.. when he dropped Keegy.. or before or after then?
18 Nov 2012, 17:30 pm
@skopdiekan-539: The Boks need a Garth Wright Mark II…
18 Nov 2012, 17:30 pm
The best thing for the Boks would be if England give them a PK with Morne and the backline cancer JdV “leading” from the front the Heil Heynecke way… Dont think it will happen, but who knows, maybe the Rugby Gods will have mercy…
Outtahere
18 Nov 2012, 17:31 pm
542 IAAS
correct HM needs to bring in mallett or someone he can work with who will tell him u drill the forwards but let’s attack the gdam gainline ffs.
Ge Mitchell in or louden or even die groot joker hisself, die naka dropkiek – wie weet too attack the gainline flat.
18 Nov 2012, 17:32 pm
@Heavens Game-546: I’m telling you that you know fckall and you pretend to be such a goddamn seer of all things rugby.. you were front of the cue singing the messiah has arrived when your sharkshit blue eyed boys were in the front of the HM bus.. now you singing a completely different tune..
I fix this Bok team in two ticks and it starts at scrum half and then at fly half.. that is where Boks rugby has to evolve .. NOT at No. 12 you stupid moron imbecilic DUMBASS bullshitter idiot gone up your backside in flip flop round about the merry go round in reverse you fckng idiot
18 Nov 2012, 17:34 pm
@phil72-547: Yes… Send the Soutie and the Darkie far away so they dont embarrass the Herstigte Heynecke supremacist “Way” and totally mindfuck his Blou Koei and Strepie CapeDutch acolytes…
18 Nov 2012, 17:34 pm
@mikeybrass-549:
Hougaard and Groom.. my first choice No.9′s
@Heavens Game-550: now this doos wants Boks to lose against England.. when I was calling that sing song back when he was calling me the worst turncoat cn’t under the sun.. shows how quick a snake can shed its skin when its snakeskin shedding season.
18 Nov 2012, 17:35 pm
@mikeybrass-541: liewe fok Mikey……just take some joy from the fact that we won….we could have lost…..you will feel a loaded lifted just appreciating that, then your burden lol about the way we play will be lighter.
Don’t worry be happy !!!
(am singing to you)
18 Nov 2012, 17:36 pm
@Heavens Game-553: flip flop like the worst f’ng two face flip flopper ever.. go and check your own posts after the first HM squad was announced you two face bullshit artist gone wrong way up your own devolution denial driven derelict bum
18 Nov 2012, 17:37 pm
No u don’t want to come from deep, u want to come in hard from flat, joostie, horan, tge unsurpassable ellah (who took it from 2 yards away from far jones), michelak, larkham, giteau, honiball, fafa fkn knoetze en kie, all flat but bust onto it hard and fast and aware to create.
18 Nov 2012, 17:37 pm
@cab-544: oh dear, these frogs would moer us the way they’re playing now. England has to FRONT up to the bokke first if they wish to get one over us…in PE they did, haskell, waldrom & them gang-tackled with vernom BOOM went meyer’s only go go source of quick ball plus he played Spies, Pottie & Marcell
with Kanko as sub.
18 Nov 2012, 17:38 pm
@Treehugger-555: you call that a win.. more like another fluke from outa heaven.. Boks rugby don’t win.. they either scrape home or beat themselves into a draw or a loss..
Long time since we ever really won with any realm of sheer efficiency and collective dominance.
18 Nov 2012, 17:39 pm
@skopdiekan-552: You are a lying charlatan fantasist… Plain in the light of day… You know about as much about backline play as the average Loftus local… You probably know less than Blou Barend Van Graan, which is farken as scary as it is laughable…
Now swallow that shitt and go watch 20 games of French, Baa Baas and AB classic backplay as penance you farken mad, rasputin monk…
Outtahere for sure
18 Nov 2012, 17:41 pm
Mind u these days ellah would probably get steamrollered by schalk and kie – one of tge reasons bojs used to beat abs cos carter always wondered when burger going to take his head-off if he stepped thru little gap.
Our lot to bang too take it to the line – goosen did it outstandingly, twice nogal, but then got crocked so you wonder if got the robustness to accompany the god-given talent?
18 Nov 2012, 17:42 pm
@cab-551:
Mallett has admitted on air the he and HM talk or at least text each other. And HM has worked for Mallett in the past.
It is now time for the roles to be reversed.
18 Nov 2012, 17:42 pm
@cab-557: Michalak passes behind his dummy runners into space from deep.. its either flat like Honibal where its crash ball up the inside channel which is the game I been advocating since 2008 with Grant at 10.. or its deep like France and NZ are playing behind the dummy runner and making space for the outside backs to find channels to exploit out wide..
But Boks are playing neither.. they are playing stagnant one dimensional 10 man rugby where the first receiver (usually a forward) goes it alone into the gain line and hopes to recycle from a dead start.. or else they kicking it for a hail Mary hope and a prayer kick and chase who is going to collect the tickie when it drops out the sky..
18 Nov 2012, 17:43 pm
@skopdiekan-559: Fact is weather it is one point or a hundred points we won…we did not draw or lose we won.
18 Nov 2012, 17:43 pm
@skopdiekan-554:
Groom is the future… lets just hope AC gives him a chance next year and also encourage him to play his natural attacking game (and not coach him to become a robot like he did to poor Duvenhage)
18 Nov 2012, 17:46 pm
@Treehugger-564:
Ja, we did well… kak rugby or te not…if we win (as is expected) on Saturday it will be the most successful end of year tour in a long time- i wil give HM huge confidence and then he will probably go ahead and pick Spies as the next Bok captain.
18 Nov 2012, 17:47 pm
I am still very positive.. Beating England next week would mean an unbeaten tour up north, something that does not happen to often these days? Go Bokke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How to go about this is a different story all together… To beat England, Steyn starting at FH probably a must, even if it is only to kick for territory. Against Scotland we just could net get out of our own half?
18 Nov 2012, 17:49 pm
@Heavens Game-560: I was playing and watching Springbok rugby before you were born.. and I played 9 and 10.. those are the positions I played.. I know how to fix this Bok team its easy as f’ng pie.. only HM don’t know squat he better get himself a guru to ask the right questions to.. Mallet or one of the Antipodean NZ or Aussie back line fundies… same way White had to turn to Jones and HM to Louden and Muir to Campese
I would pick Campese again… failing which Carel Dup would be as good a place as any to get some back line coaching acumen into this dead end Bok team
18 Nov 2012, 17:49 pm
@Treehugger-555: It’s a relief not having lost to Ireland and Scotland again. Relief, not joy. Joy is seeing a gameplan which doesn’t end with 9 waiting 20 seconds looking left and right, taking a step and then passing. Joy is not seeing the flyhalf playing according to the strictest instructions. Joy is seeing 13 receive the ball more than 1… Joy is winning with a game plan that bears no relationship to traditional Bok rugby. And joy is not relief at beating bloody Ireland and Scotland; if that is joy for you, keep it.
18 Nov 2012, 17:51 pm
@skopdiekan-554: Hougaard needs to be with a provincial team that uses him like Joost was used, not like FdP was used. He is being screwed up big time and not allowed to progress.
Groom is an immense talent. I hope he is the starting 9 for the Stormers.
18 Nov 2012, 17:51 pm
Michalak got an amazing distributing game and quickness about his hands / yep auusies also like those decoy runners from deep and they pastmasters at planning an attack but IMO tge best attacks are not planned – they are spontaneous and instictive as u go on about.
The thing is at present the boks are ONLY playing planned stuff and worse it’s only planned defense. Meyer honestly thinks he’s got tge blueprint – these guys don’t get it, they become too controlling, the coaches job is 3-fold:
select right
analyse right
and motivate
instead they try control every action to tge point where players natural abilities ge overriden – that’s never going to get the best out of anyone.
18 Nov 2012, 17:51 pm
@Robzim-566:
HM’s leadership group next year will be Adriaan Strauss, Bissie and Schalk. I don’t think JDV will be the long term captain.
Spies can stay at the Bulls. They deserve him.
18 Nov 2012, 17:52 pm
@I am a stormer-562: Mallett needs to give Meyer the hairdryer treatment and get on board asap.
18 Nov 2012, 17:53 pm
@skopdiekan-568: Second both!
18 Nov 2012, 17:54 pm
imo….bok problems
9….10…..12….15….
18 Nov 2012, 17:54 pm
@grant10-575: YES
18 Nov 2012, 17:55 pm
@grant10-575:
In my opinion 5..8..9..10..12..13..15
18 Nov 2012, 17:56 pm
@Robzim-566: I didn’t know that….as for bringing back Spies
I really don’t think he will, the guy has never been Bok material in my eyes and Meyer mUst surely see it. Will be verbal warfare if he brings him back and I will also be one of the nasties.
18 Nov 2012, 17:56 pm
@skopdiekan-532: thats the biggets load of rubbish ive ever heard. Houghaard at scrumhalf and we would have won the WC. Please man. There are a multitude of reasons why we lost at the WC Bryce Lawrence being one of the primary reasons. You have some insightful things to say and then you go and mess it all up with stupid assumptions like that – scrumhalf is not the be all and end all of rugby. A flyhalf is much more influential on a game behind an average scrummie. Its only when your scrumhalf is absolutely rubbish that it affects the game even more than the flyhalf can. And thats not even the beginning of the reason we lost.
18 Nov 2012, 17:57 pm
@Heavens Game-527:
well we disagree then.
its clear his coach did not rate him highly enough to play at 10 for the sharks as first choice.
@mikeybrass-535:
oh, of course… how convenient
18 Nov 2012, 17:59 pm
@grant10-575:
The thing is and I’ve said it before. If WP can win without JDV, then so can the Boks.
18 Nov 2012, 18:02 pm
@I am a stormer-581: id go further and say the Stormers win percisely because Jean doesnt play and ditto the Boks. AS soon as JDV shifted to 13 we saw an improvement in play with Steyn at 12.
18 Nov 2012, 18:05 pm
@I am a stormer-572:
You are probably right but i wont be surprised if Spies features very much in HM’s plans. If I must pick a bok captain to take us forward i would go for Flo.
Bissy is a hothead, Strauss wont make the starting team and we will have to wait and see whether Schalk wll ever be again the player he used to be.
18 Nov 2012, 18:06 pm
Are myself and Heavensgame the only Sharks still posting here ?
18 Nov 2012, 18:08 pm
@Treehugger-578:
just wait for Spies to be back and do his 500 kg bench presses and 20 meter vertical jumps carrying Gio Aplon in his left hand and Juan de Jong in the right- HM loves that stuff.
18 Nov 2012, 18:10 pm
@Slumtown-582: we did?
18 Nov 2012, 18:12 pm
@Slumtown-582:
Frans, I think, will remain HM’s first choice 12.
And Brache and de Allende (in the final) did well at 12 in the CC.
@Robzim-583:
He mentioned Strauss and Bissie – then smiled. Because, HM knows Bissie will never accept being the second choice hooker again.
18 Nov 2012, 18:12 pm
@Robzim-583: how would he justify Spies being selected? He does nothing better than anyone that has played in his position on the Bok, in fact I think he is a handicap with a great body, he doesn’t even seem to the grunt or bit of natural aggression required for playing rugby.
18 Nov 2012, 18:13 pm
howzit Rob. Little ride out your side this morning. Very pleasant.
18 Nov 2012, 18:16 pm
Bakkies, Meyer will learn eventually but fok it will be a painfully unnecessary journey.
18 Nov 2012, 18:17 pm
@Robzim-585: @Robzim-585:
18 Nov 2012, 18:21 pm
@Treehugger-591: lo ..so there a place for small players on the team after all.
18 Nov 2012, 18:27 pm
@TASSIES-589:
That’s great… where did you go? I am doing some road cycling at the moment, preparing for the Sanlam/Burger ride in 2 weeks time- its a seeding event for the Argus so i need a decent time to get a good starting slot at the argus to escape the possible heat in march.I saw the other day u are planning to spend some time overseas?
18 Nov 2012, 18:43 pm
@Robzim-593: Good luck. I was a C group rider back when I was 19.
18 Nov 2012, 18:49 pm
@mikeybrass-594:
Ja, those were the days..Caffeine and Reactivan, lol… did you break the magical 3 hours?
18 Nov 2012, 18:51 pm
Now I understand what happened to M Steyn. He also used to be a running fh.
3 weeks under HM and Lambie only takes the ball to the line twice the whole game. Something he is renowned for. Forced to kick everything.
1000 Rand says M Steyn starts against the poms this weekend.
Come back to the Sharks Pat and get ready to play for a coach who understands what is required of a modern fly half.
18 Nov 2012, 18:54 pm
Displeased by the effort, Defensively fantastic, but offensively dull and lacking any idea how to break the line. Dissapointed, but then we have to turn back the clock and remember that Jake followed a similar structure – his philosophy was defense first, offense after. The Boks did well to build a game built on defense, and use counter attacking off opposition mistakes.
I think HM will do well to bring a guy like Mallet in to assist him as a consultant.
Mallet understands not only where the problems lie, but how to fix them.
It cant be easy to win, but still be criticized, but such is the nature of the beast.
Boks need to up their game to beat England. On this 50 minute performance its not going to be enough
18 Nov 2012, 18:55 pm
@Robzim-595: 3 hrs 5 mins over the old 105km course. I’d have broken the 3 hrs except that there was a breakaway down at the start of the Blue Route. My group was too slow. I had no choice but to chase down the breakaway. No one helped. The ******** sat on my back wheel. There was a howling south-easter and the chase took its toll by the time I reached Suiks.
This was back in ’97. I haven’t done the Argus since. One day I’ll fly back and do it.
18 Nov 2012, 19:01 pm
great to see the kenners are still debating rugby at this time of the day
18 Nov 2012, 19:03 pm
@mikeybrass-598:
Lol, that is terrible to miss it by such a small margin. A mate of mine once missed it by 14 seconds… he is still struggling to accept it – he has also never been the same again and struggled in at 3 : 57 last year blaming the wind, a flat, wheelsuckers, the heat etc
18 Nov 2012, 19:03 pm
well a win is a win..or so we’re supposed to believe
18 Nov 2012, 19:05 pm
@John Galt-596: we know STAIN will be starting. thats why most of us will NOT be watching
18 Nov 2012, 19:10 pm
my 2 cents…
i’m sick and tired of excuses for HM.
Francois Pienaar said it best on Boots and All, its called “Sportainment”
under HM the Boks are losing fans fast as the standard of play is soo poor.
we cant even compare to France, Argentian or even Samoa in terms of style of play. it irks me that we must believe we cant play WITH the ball, yet ALL these other nations at least attempt to do this.
How can Argentina and Samoa be soo effective at getting interplay between forwards and backs, running into space, offloading etc. yet none of our players are”skilled” enough to do this?
REALLY?
we cannot even compare to France
18 Nov 2012, 19:12 pm
@Robzim-600: People in the breakaway group, obviously not having to cope with the chase down, came in about 2:50.
I usually go up Suiks at 23km/hr (average overall on the uphill). I was doing 14/15 with the energy snap.
I was fffuuuummmmiiiiinnnnnnnngggggggggggggggggg.
So good luck. Lead any free-wheelers over some glass or a pothole
18 Nov 2012, 19:13 pm
@papaown-603: Because many of our coaches don’t want to do it.
18 Nov 2012, 19:15 pm
Shocking ga,me if we can’t attack we don’t desreve to be playing Were in same situation earlier against AB’s, forwards dominated backline couldn’t spark and we lost. Same as against Aus in WC semi’s. Game was pathetic. We shouldn’t have needed to defend against Scotland
18 Nov 2012, 19:16 pm
@mikeybrass-604:
Lol, Thanks I will try.
Have to admit I am quite a “free- wheeler” myself these days
18 Nov 2012, 19:18 pm
@Robzim-607: What’s your group?
18 Nov 2012, 19:19 pm
I see that old keo reprobate, Phillippe Philloppe, is posting today under several stolen nics and another couple of mulitnics too.
As Billy the Boxer said long ago:
“Honesty is such a lonely word…
everyone is so untrue!”
I am NOT the Messiah!
We say you are Lord, and we should know. We’ve followed a few.
Pontius Pilate: So, yaw fatha was a Woman? Who was he?
Brian: He was a Centurion, in the Jerusalem Garrisons.
Pontius Pilate: Weally? What was his name?
Brian: ‘Naughtius Maximus’.
[the Centurion laughs]
Pontius Pilate: Centuwion, do we have anyone of that name in the gawwison?
Centurion: Well, no, sir.
Pontius Pilate: Well, you sound vewy sure. Have you checked?
Centurion: Well, no, sir. Umm, I think it’s a joke, sir… like, uh, ‘Sillius Soddus’ or… ‘Biggus Dickus’, sir.
Pontius Pilate: [guard chuckles] What’s so funny about “Biggus Dickus? ”
Centurion: Well, it’s a joke name, sir.
Pontius Pilate: I have a vewy gweat fwiend in Wome called ‘Biggus Dickus’.
[guard chuckles]
Pontius Pilate: Silence! What is all this insolence? You will find yourself in gladiator school vewy quickly with wotten behaviour like that.
Brian: Can I go now, sir?
[slap]
Brian: Aaah! Eh.
Pontius Pilate: Wait till Biggus Dickus hears of this!
[guard chuckles]
Pontius Pilate: Wight! Take him away!
Centurion: Oh, sir, he – he only…
Pontius Pilate: No, no. I want him fighting wabid, wild animals within a week.
Centurion: Yes, sir. Come on, you.
[takes the guard away as continues laughing histerically]
Pontius Pilate: I will not have my fwiends widiculed by the common soldiewy. – - Anybody else feel like a little… giggle… when I mention my fwiend… Biggus…
[another guard chuckles]
Pontius Pilate: … Dickus?
[more chuckling]
Pontius Pilate: What about you? Do you find it… wisible… when I say the name… ‘Biggus’…
[chuckle]
Pontius Pilate: … Dickus?
[both guards chuckle]
Pontius Pilate: He has a wife, you know. You know what she’s called? She’s called… ‘Incontinentia’… Incontinentia Buttocks
Pontius Pilate: [Guards are laughing] Stop! What is all this?
Pontius Pilate: [laughing continues] I’ve had enough of this wowdy webel sniggewing behaviour. Silence! Call yourselves Pwaetowian guards? You’re not – Seize him! Seize him! Blow your noses and seize him!
18 Nov 2012, 19:19 pm
Sorry Aus in quarter finals. So bitter after yesterday’s game even the beer failed to cheer me up. I am a Heyneke fan, just not sure for how much longer,
18 Nov 2012, 19:19 pm
@Robzim-607:
I need you to get a good time so you can join me in the ‘Foreign’ group!!
Shall we stop for lunch this time?
18 Nov 2012, 19:21 pm
If Morne is to play against the Pom,then the Meyer has come a complete circle without learning farkall about who is the real deal lynchpin at ten.A whole season wasted with regards to identifying the right man for the most important position on the field. It really goes back to when the Meyer uttered the statement…”he is an extension of myself on the field”….obviously Meyer was a hopeless pivot in his day.
18 Nov 2012, 19:23 pm
@mikeybrass-608:
I was supposed to start in “H” last year but downgraded to the “foreign group” to assist a friend of mine. My best time ever was very much the same as yours.
18 Nov 2012, 19:24 pm
@carol-611:
Unless you start doing some proper training we will probably stop for dinner
18 Nov 2012, 19:25 pm
@Robzim-613:
‘Downgraded’ !! Do behave……
18 Nov 2012, 19:25 pm
Well done Boks. I have seldom seen a team so young dominate Northern Hemisphere teams in the aspects they are normally good in. Most of these players the Boks came up against thus far will tell everyone this Bok team is the most physical opponent they have played against.
Go Meyer and the brutal Boks.
18 Nov 2012, 19:28 pm
Blood and Thunder Prophet: [screaming] … and the bezan shall be huge and black, and the eyes thereof red with the blood of living creatures, and the ***** of Babylon shall ride forth on a three-headed serpent, and throughout the lands, there will be a great rubbing of parts. Yeeah…
False Prophet: [yelling] … for the demon shall bear a nine-bladed sword. NINE-bladed! Not two or five or seven, but NINE, which he will wield on all wretched sinners, sinners just like you, sir, there, and the horns shall be on the head, with which he will…
Boring Prophet: …there shall, in that time, be *rumors* of things going astray, errrm, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things wi – with the sort of raffia work base that has an attachment. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend’s hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o’clock. Yea, it is written in the book of Cyril that…
18 Nov 2012, 19:33 pm
No, no. Please, please please listen. I’ve got one or two things to say.
Tell us! Tell us both of them!
Look, you’ve got it all wrong. You don’t need to follow me. You don’t need to follow anybody! You’ve got to think for yourselves! You’re all individuals!
Yes! We’re all individuals!
You’re all different!
Yes! We’re all different!
[Man in crowd:] I’m not…
Shhh!
You’ve all got to work it out for yourselves.
Yes! We’ve got to work it out for ourselves!
Exactly!
Tell us more!
No! That’s the point! Don’t let anyone tell you what to do! Otherwise – Ow! Ow!
18 Nov 2012, 19:34 pm
Excuse me. Are you the Judean People’s Front?
Fuckoff! We’re the People’s Front of Judea.
18 Nov 2012, 19:35 pm
@carol-615:
Behave?… I paid my dues by pushing poms up suikerbossie and chappies… so I deserve to brag a bit dont U think?
18 Nov 2012, 19:36 pm
I find it interesting that so many “experts” here complain about the tactics of individual players. How many times have we heard complaints about forwards like Schalk standing as first receiver, Bekker at centre, or props cluttering the backline? Doesn’t it occur to anyone that these players aren’t just making their own decision to appear there, given the regularity they do it?
As for Pienaars looking around in the red zone, Gregan used to do it as well, the difference being that he had a number of players running different lines to choose from, whereas Pienaar only has static players.
The Boks performance in the first half of the 2nd Test against against England was only HMs second in charge, and I reckon that the players (backs) hadn’t yet succumbed to his overall game plan. The longer he’s been in charge, the worse our backline attacking play has become.
18 Nov 2012, 19:43 pm
@David-621: Gregan could size up his options and usually had quick ruck ball. Pienaar slows down the ruck ball and then decides what forward to pass it too. So sad.
18 Nov 2012, 19:48 pm
@Robzim-620: Deserve a medal for that
Me, I’d have been yelling “LLLEEEFFFFTTTTT” 
18 Nov 2012, 19:54 pm
@Robzim-620:
Claptrap !
18 Nov 2012, 19:56 pm
@Te Rangatira-612:
hi TR, its obviously goosen and morne, goosen will be groomed further and morne will just play his game and help bring goosen through. lambie and jantjes will serve as capable but not outstanding backup replacements to these two in instances of injury, fatigue and lower tier games.
18 Nov 2012, 19:56 pm
@mikeybrass-623:
He is talking ‘guff’!! I did not need pushing up any flipping hills !!
So no medal ceremonies!
18 Nov 2012, 19:58 pm
@Horings-616:
yip, a job well done so far, just england to take care of.
18 Nov 2012, 20:01 pm
For ET, and sadly Soda Joe. Leeds continue their slide into Championship oblivion.
18 Nov 2012, 20:06 pm
@carol-626: That’s what they all say, till they can’t keep up the pace
18 Nov 2012, 20:07 pm
@mikeybrass-623:
@carol-624:
And all I got for my troubles was a sore bum…. my slowest “race” ever.. and my mates dont want to believe my explanation for the slowest time in history
18 Nov 2012, 20:12 pm
Perspective on this win.
I hear some complaints from kenners around here without much perspective.
From last year we have a number of players unavailable due to retirements/overseas.
Smit
Matfield
Botha
Roussow
FDP
Fourie
We are also missing some players through injury.
Beast
Bismarc
Coenie
Bekker
Heinrich
Schalk
Juan
Spies
Goosen
Steyn
Habana
We are playing a number of young/inexperienced players
Young
Etzebeth
Coetzee
Lambie
Inexperienced
Strauss
Juandre
Vermeulen
Not to mention Steyns dramatic loss of form which I have no doubt impacted a few earlier results.
We won ugly against the irish, whose b team have just given Fiji a 53-0 hiding. We also bullied a very physical and pretty experienced Scottish side who have beaten Aus and Arg (twice) away this year. Both teams would have been desperate for world cup ranking points.
Some criticism is fair, we need to add balance by attacking with our backline more, our set piece could be more solid and it would be nice to play with more tempo and variety.
However, the fundamentals for building a great team are there. The pack is performing very nicely. The defense is looking good and we are winning the territory battle more often than not. With what’s available, Heyneke has done more right than wrong.
I have selection gripes like any other fan, Ludik should be on tour for example, but if you asked yourself what a successful building process would look like, this wouldn’t be far off.
I hear a lot of comparisons with the AB’s about the standards we should look to emulate. But they built as well, and didn’t destroy teams in every game during the process. If memory serves, Carters first game at 10 was against wales in 2003. They won by a point 26-25 with S Jones missing a late penalty.
They came last in 2004 Tri nations. Did they drop DC and start hating all their players and coach? No.
What the AB’s have done very well is maintain consistency in experience or ‘builtness’ by rotating and managing players. THIS is what we need to do when the core of the team is there.
Even with that in mind, just this year they needed a last minute drop goal from DC to win by two against the irish at home.
The kiwis focus just as much as us on the fundamentals of the game, the forward battle, the set piece and territory. They kick a lot, often more than us.
But now they have built a team, they also put it all together on the day sometimes, like giving Ireland 60-0.
Sometimes you have to win ugly and show character and that’s not a bad thing. I will say this now, If this team keeps doing the right things up front and our backs click, we are going to give someone a hiding.
Lambies performance in the Scotland game was very good. Exactly what you would expect at this stage of his career at flyhalf.
We should all back him and the team, I’m going to.
18 Nov 2012, 20:13 pm
@Robzim-630: Thehehehehehe
Tell you what. Take them on a training route via Red Hill next time at 12pm
18 Nov 2012, 20:14 pm
@Robzim-630:
You talk 8o//ock$….. !!
Consider yourself in the dog house!
18 Nov 2012, 20:14 pm
@Brendope-631: Meyer etc know how to drill a pack. None of them know how to construct backline play.
18 Nov 2012, 20:15 pm
@mikeybrass-632:
He is talking utter nonsense!
The sun today must have got to him!
18 Nov 2012, 20:16 pm
@carol-633: Oh man you Brits are too easy to wind up
Add in 30 degrees and Poms need a permanent water hose injected into the veins during the Tour 
18 Nov 2012, 20:16 pm
@mikeybrass-622:
The point I’m making is that the coaching staff are not giving Pienaar attacking options as there doesn’t seem to be any overall plan of having different runners to choose from. Pienaar has to decide which player offers the best option, as they’re all static.
18 Nov 2012, 20:17 pm
@carol-635: Or the 3 degrees here has frozen your memory
18 Nov 2012, 20:17 pm
@Horings-616: Good to hear someone being more positive.
Im glad that the boks are struggling to get their wins. This young team can only benefit from this and will grow and become better and better with each game. This is not a settled squad and no one seems to realise this… You could pass judgement if this was the same squad that went to the world cup, but its not. Patience is needed.
They lost their first tests against the ABs and Aussies due to bad goal kicking, so considering that they havent really been comprehensively beaten thus far is a good sign that they have a brighter future than the critics may think….
The young forwards are becoming a very settled and resilient pack. Players like Schalk, Bakkies, Smith, Smit and Spies are not especially missed. Any victory is built on dominant forward play. So with the forwards on the rise the most important ingredient for success have been added to the mix for success. Jannie needs decent backup though…
The big problem that needs to be looked at lies with the backs. But in time they will settle into an effective unit too. HM realises that they need to be more effective on attack when they keep ball in hand… And I believe he will somehow rectify this problem in time. Be it by bringing in some help (like White did with Eddie Jones) or changing the tactical approach when on the front foot. His frustration with the teams inability to score tries when they are in the goal area is a good sign that he acknowledges this problem that will need to be fixed as soon as possible..
18 Nov 2012, 20:18 pm
@David-637: Yeah it is “pass to Eben” or “pass to Alberts”. Oh lookie, let’s pass to Duane for a change.
How flipping tragic!
18 Nov 2012, 20:20 pm
@Jeez-639: What Meyer needs is an experienced backline coach or at the very least an experienced backline consultant. Someone who will challenge him. Ricardo isn’t a backline coach’s arse and the rest of them are effectively only good at forward coaching, which shows.
18 Nov 2012, 20:25 pm
@mikeybrass-636:
@carol-635:
Lol, and she was the worst of the poms. Going up suikerbossie with her took so long and was so slow I could feel my beard growing. At least she did not get off the bike and push.. maybe there is some truth in the “british bulldog tenacity”- i have to give her that
Got to go..cheers.
18 Nov 2012, 20:25 pm
@Brendope-631:
Your inexperienced players aren’t actually novices. In fact they’ve got more experience than a number of veterans. Just not at test level.
Look at our backline and apart from 10 (if MS doesn’t play) and 13 (with Taute), and it’s a very experienced unit.
18 Nov 2012, 20:27 pm
@David-643:
The players I mentioned are inexperienced at Test level. That is what it is.
18 Nov 2012, 20:27 pm
@Robzim-642: At least you made it to the top, unlike that dude in the Greek mythology
18 Nov 2012, 20:33 pm
@mikeybrass-641:
HM credits himself as a ‘fixer’ lets wait and see how he fixes this backline problem… I agree a consultant or new BL coach will be the best way forward. He’s on record saying that it might be a coaching problem, so its good to have a coach who acknowledges the problems. The backs need to settle first too… And selections will just get trickier going forward.
18 Nov 2012, 20:39 pm
@mikeybrass-640:
That was the major difference that I noticed Eddie Jones brought to our forwards.
18 Nov 2012, 21:03 pm
@Robzim-642:
thats not like you, winding up the pommerainians, what happened to the gentleman formerly known as Robzim?
18 Nov 2012, 21:04 pm
@cab-648: He has a wicked sense of humour
18 Nov 2012, 21:12 pm
@mikeybrass-649:
where u based, cambridge of hoe?
18 Nov 2012, 21:13 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-625:
Hi Houston……I see you have been assimilated into the Borg and good ole HG is running around like a crazed Captain Kirk trying to save the Lambie from the Borg’s(Meyer,s) clutches of control, gripping stuff…..
@Jeez-639:
Heres a positive thought…..”Get rid of Meyer” and bring in Mallet or someone with a brain to unlocking the Bok backs. The first fundamental change that should be made is giving the first five the licence to call the shots not the guy at the base of the scrum..
18 Nov 2012, 21:17 pm
yip Horings and Jeez make some pretty good points, but i’m not convinced – granted its his first season, but there some bladdy good talent in SA at the moment to have to defend like that against the scots. i also think David may have a point that De Villiers is the one working wonders with our props, then again HM had the brains to bring him in, not just brawn but technique too.
18 Nov 2012, 21:24 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-580: At best you conveniently forget that Lambie was injured and Fred took over… Fred took his opportunity and was outstanding… Validated by being 1st choice 10 for the real No 2. side on the planet… When Pat recovered, Plum played him at 15 to have both players on the park… It worked and Sharks made the final after one of the best away streaks in Super rugby history… At worst you are a mythologist spinning myths… Like those myths of old where the Boere trekked kaalvoet over the Drakensberge, where there has ever been such a thing as Unity of the Volk; where the Boere actually won the Anglo Boer War and where Heil Heyneke Meyer “won” 3 Super Rugby titles…
Farken bullshitting fantasies as bad as Skopsnot proclaiming he knows WTF is cutting with backline play…
18 Nov 2012, 21:25 pm
@Heavens Game-653:
stormers are the better side, tho plum is a better coach.
18 Nov 2012, 21:26 pm
@cab-650: Yup, over in the UK.
18 Nov 2012, 21:28 pm
@John Galt-596: Too true… A glimpse of sanity on this farked up fantasist thread on this WePee mouthpiece of a site…
18 Nov 2012, 21:35 pm
best SA side
Sharks 2007
Bulls 2008-2009
Stormers 2011-2012
18 Nov 2012, 21:35 pm
@cab-654: Yes, another fantasist… Funny that the Sharks had a 2 to 1 winning ratio against them this year…
But you WP and Bulls fools are so farken narrow minded and tunnel visioned you couldn’t even see the Rugby world around you if you tried…
Fuckedin the head… A certain type of madness only alleviated when your teams get fuckedup silly between the white lines…
Hopefully England can do the Boks a favour long term and smash the Boks and their supremacist arrogance straight from Twickenham all the way back to OR Tambo…
Will be the best lesson for this Heilige Herstigte Fuckwit his backline cancer Captain and you Stormer/Bulls skop en jag acolytes and your arrogance….
18 Nov 2012, 21:41 pm
HG, serious question. What position did you play? Curiosity.
18 Nov 2012, 21:42 pm
@Te Rangatira-651: Another 100%. But you a Kiwi… You can see the shitstreet from a mile away that these brainwashed tunnel visioned Bulls and Stormers myopic idiots slavering over their skop and jag tactics and the players suited for them, cant see in a million years unless the get fckedup so silly by teams other than the ABs that their mythologies get exposed for the lies they truly are…Once and for all…
Maybe England can do honest Bok rugby fans a favour and finish the 2nd half job that Scotland did on Meyers brainwashed Green and Gold Borglets and send them all the way home to think again… Or just think full stop…
18 Nov 2012, 21:43 pm
@cab-657: Bulls in 2010 and yes, the Stormers since then, whatever the protests from the terminally blind say.
18 Nov 2012, 21:43 pm
@Heavens Game-658: now the die hard patriot is praying for England to fck up the Boks so that Meyer can get the boot.. where were you when the reality was staring you in the face?
should we ask Transie to go find the posts where you were hailing Heyneke Meyer as the absolute savior of Bok rugby.. not too long ago.. merely a matter of a few months and you have reversed your undying patriotism exactly 180 degrees.
Boks problem is 2 fold.. Pienaar at 9 and Steyn or Lambie at 10.. that is is..
Lambie is slightly better but not by much.. I said it already some time ago.. Boks still don’t have a fly half if Goosen is crocked because neither Steyn, nor Lambie nor Jantjies are the real international level MacKoy
Boks are still in search of a fly half.. and they are also in search of an international level rugby coach.
18 Nov 2012, 21:44 pm
@Heavens Game-658:
yeah but i think that was theonly 2 games the sharks won all season? u okes becoming as bad as gerber’s bulls, lose evetthing, just as long as u beat wp … hell it got so bad after 6 straight losses, the sharks faithful petitioned for his removal – 2 months later they built a life-sozed bronzed statue of him bo op sufbroad in bananaboy hq by die see.
18 Nov 2012, 21:44 pm
@Heavens Game-660: We’ll be in for another year of pain if Meyer doesn’t parachute in a backline specialist for the rescue.
18 Nov 2012, 21:46 pm
@Heavens Game-653:
HG….what has perplexed me this season for the Bok, has been the steadfast nature Meyer has stuck with his plan for the backs especially first five….namely the kicking option. The notion that is rolled out in defence of the kick option is that the Abs kick more than the Bok, yet if the stats for example where given for tries directly scored from kicks, or attacking kicks regathered for the attacking side, I’m guessing the Abs would be leading those stats to. Also I’m sorry to say is Jdv hasn’t got the quick hands needed at second five, sometimes you need to get the ball away in one motion,catch and pass,something Jdv lacks.
18 Nov 2012, 21:46 pm
@Heavens Game-658:
Another dumbass who supports the opposition and calls himself a Bok supporter.
You’re an embarrassment china… “Pathetic” is too good a word for you.
Take a vacation.
18 Nov 2012, 21:47 pm
@Te Rangatira-665: Oh for the days of a Mannetjies, Hennie le Roux, Michael du Plessis again…
18 Nov 2012, 21:47 pm
WP are the perennial running rugby team since the days of yore already.. HG got a hard on for WP rugby that why he hates it so much..
Just the other day he quoted the 86 Bok back line as the greatest back line of all time.. with Michael Du Plessis, and Carel Du Plessis as central contributors along with Danie Gerber EP, Garth Wright EP, Jaco Reinach OFS and Naas Botha with Johann Heunis Bulls as the other candidates.. not a black white pretender anywhere in sight.
18 Nov 2012, 21:49 pm
@mikeybrass-659: I played rugby in a different era… Still play the odd veterans game… Stating a position might be a bit revealing for the little psychos out there that obsess about who may be who in this bulldust zoo…
Also, your loaded question implies that I have to validate my pov to you locals by stating my credentials… I dont.
18 Nov 2012, 21:50 pm
@Heavens Game-660:
Supporting the other team…. Shameful. Absolutely shameful.
You are a disgrace.
18 Nov 2012, 21:51 pm
@cab-663: 2 games against WP/Stormers? I think for a self professed “scientist” persuasion your numerical skills are farked… Clearly
18 Nov 2012, 21:56 pm
@Heavens Game-669: ***** you are paranoid. It was curiosity. Unless someone knows your age (which most of us don’t)…
18 Nov 2012, 21:56 pm
@Heavens Game-671: You and numbers? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Paranoid loony tunes.
18 Nov 2012, 21:58 pm
@skopdiekan-668: If I had my way it would be Mallett as head coach and Carel as backline, with Niebenaar as defense.
18 Nov 2012, 21:58 pm
@Te Rangatira-665: Its not the players Te Rangi… And yes, De Villiers passed his sell by date before he returned to Stormers from Munster, but when Frans Steyn was at 12 for the Boks the backs were barely that much better, though the wings saw the ball more than zero… It doesn’t matter which players are there – you could transplant the entire AB or French backlines – they will come away after a couple months with Meyer and Van Graan talking quarters, quadrants, zones and “optimal” plays while murdering the clouds with mortar bomb up and unders, crash ball maul set up play at 10/12 channel and attempted 70m line kicks…
18 Nov 2012, 21:59 pm
talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish
18 Nov 2012, 22:00 pm
We all know the problem with the game plan.
What many people still dont realise is that our scrumhalf is a major problem. His service is too laboured, he never snipes and he just lacks the nip, buzz and energy that a truly good scrummie needs.
He had a shocker against Scotland…. Kicked out on the full, gave away 2 penalties, kick charged down, sloppy passes that found no one and hit the ground, and the less said about that scrum on our 5m line, the better…
Look at the difference Pyrgos made when he came on for Scotland.
We need to get out of the mindset that the scrumhalf should be a game-controller. That is the flyhalf’s job…. The sooner we let our flyhalf control the game and find a scrummie who recycles the ball quickly and brings energy and buzz to the table, the sooner we will start scoring tries.
Pienaar is one of the major readons we look so uncreative on attack.
18 Nov 2012, 22:00 pm
In full regalia WP were definitely the form team this year when all or at least nearly all were fit.. Sharks had the benefit of superior management and coaching.. and better psychological preparation on a few occasions.. but man for man WP definitely the superior rugby team when comparing composition from 1 – 15.
The CC final was a hoot .. before the game all the Sharks supporters were comparing players and they had the line up for the final with only Etsebeth being the sole stand out WP superior to his Sharks counterpart.. and then the impossible happened , the WP nobodies trounced the Sharks invincible’s.. that was how overwhelmingly superior the Sharks players supposedly were.
18 Nov 2012, 22:01 pm
@Daddy-666: I “support” the opposition? Go read again you narrow minded myopic pri.ck… Read again, in context and stop spinning yourself in bullshitt myths…
18 Nov 2012, 22:04 pm
@Heavens Game-679:
We dont need your type onboard. Youre free to go.
18 Nov 2012, 22:04 pm
@Kaizan-670: Truth hurts schmuck… Read it as the best truth possible for Bok rugby and all the Kick chase skopjag supremacy apologists such as yourself and all the other tunnel visioned brain dead idiots who Sieg Heil Herstigte Heyneke….
18 Nov 2012, 22:04 pm
@skopdiekan-678:
You are not giving enough credit to AC.
he is the best coach in SA by a mile and should have been the bok coach instead of Herr heinecke.
Even Jake White said so
18 Nov 2012, 22:05 pm
@Heavens Game-675:
Yep…correct…The players are there in spades…just lacking direction and a solid plan that incorporates the skill factor through using ones initiative.
18 Nov 2012, 22:05 pm
@mikeybrass-673: Yes… Numbers… The same numbers that showed you up for the Hancockian Atlantis chasing “Historian” you are…
18 Nov 2012, 22:06 pm
best chill stuff on you tube:
http://youtu.be/yuZ6sQXa5a0
http://youtu.be/uhKq9JvssB8
http://youtu.be/FkxfDRqXvRs
18 Nov 2012, 22:07 pm
@Heavens Game-681:
Whatever loser… Just reading the other posts, seems youre none too popular with your theory of “support the opposition to teach Heyneke a lesson”.
You’re a disgrace. Not worthy of supporting the green and gold.
Get lost.
18 Nov 2012, 22:08 pm
@Heavens Game-675: what happened to your messiah.. where he go between March and now..? suddenly he is inept and the root cause of all the bitter wailing and gnashing of teeth.. how come it took you 5 months to realize this.. where was all your insightful promise you were so lavishly dishing up to your messiah just the other day?
@Daddy-677:
Yes Pienaar is the main cause of the entire back line malady.. try sell that to the kenners here, they will tell you its JdV.. though he is playing at wrong position.. it is not JdV who is the problem.. it is the coach’s game plan and the selection of Pienaar at 9.. along with no clear international ready 10 to lead the game, neither Steyn, nor Lambie nor Jantjies are ready to take the Bok 10 jersey .. funny enough Pienaar would have worked had he stayed at 10, but at 9 he is a dead loss and the chief culprit to the entire back line woes.
18 Nov 2012, 22:08 pm
@Daddy-680: Who is “we”? You mean the brain dead zombies from Keo who reckon they actually know what the fck is happening with backline play…? Then I say fark off and find a life outside fantasizing about rugby – at the moment you fools are about imaginative as the walking dead with nowhere to go…
18 Nov 2012, 22:10 pm
hey siener van der rabbinowitz, u were a big fan of meyer initially, now whats happened?
18 Nov 2012, 22:10 pm
@Heavens Game-688:
I said “youre free to go”.
That means pisss off.
18 Nov 2012, 22:11 pm
@Te Rangatira-683: Yes… Otherwise known as individualism… Anathema to fascism, the National Party, the Blue Bulls and the current Bok coaching set up…
18 Nov 2012, 22:13 pm
@skopdiekan-687: He was as much my “messiah” as he was yours, you mad spitting rasputin monk without a clue…
18 Nov 2012, 22:15 pm
@Robzim-682:
AC like White like Meyer are just plain too chicken to be international rugby coaches on their own steam, they need a visionary to hold their hand and show them the way past their own ingrained bedeviled fear of losing
WP rugby a little like Bok rugby too afraid to play with the ball , but when we carry it up there is none to contain us or beat us at the continuity game.
18 Nov 2012, 22:17 pm
@Robzim-685:
youtube.com/watch?v=YqzHvcwJmQY
yep pretty cool stuff, never got into it as a vaalie, what about the gdam great whites tho?
18 Nov 2012, 22:19 pm
@Kaizan-686: He is not a real South African.Don’t expect any loyalties from these ex Zimbabweans,mate.When Africa gets too tough for them they run off to the motherland of Blimey.
18 Nov 2012, 22:20 pm
@cab-689: when?
I was a fan of PdV yes.. till the senior players cabal got hold of him and turned him into a jellyfish.. tough I stuck with him till the bitter end..
Meyer I didn’t know from Adam.. only what Matfield had extolled about him.. so I gave him the benefit of the doubt until that very first squad announcement, then I knew we were in deep kak.. right at the beginning when he pronounced his first squad I knew it and said as much out loud right here… in spite of HG and the other sieners telling me what a breath of fresh air this supremacist one dimensional robotic neanderthal messiah is … and it only been getting worse since then.
18 Nov 2012, 22:22 pm
A 3 point plan to save Bok rugby from embarrassing itself longer than it has to and certainly before the next Rigged World Cup…
1. Boks Lose to England playing the Meyer WAY
2. Sharks win Super Rugby next year playing a different way.
3. Argentina come 2nd in the RC behind the ABs next year with hopefully the Boks and Oz tied at 3rd playing the Meyer WAY…
4. Boks lose one of the mid year tests to the Scots playing the Meyer WAY with all his “first choice” players available…
Then the Boks actually might get somewhere fast and sooner than another 10 years under Herstigte Heynecke, his Bulls/STormers up and under acolytes and Godforbid his Heilige Dynasty…
18 Nov 2012, 22:24 pm
@skopdiekan-696:
pdV probably would have done better with this bunch of players, and meyer with the last
18 Nov 2012, 22:24 pm
Keo, how can you compare the amount of tries vers us and vers the Blacks.
Theeir game strategy runs a far higher risk, and when you are creaming the opposition into oblivion you dont worry to much about the odd try.
When has the Boks put fifty points to Scotland should be the comparison been questioned.
18 Nov 2012, 22:26 pm
The farker can’t even count and he expects us to take him seriously!!
18 Nov 2012, 22:27 pm
@skopdiekan-687:
Good morning Skop…..I respect JdV as a top man, good leader and fine player over the years. I do think however a change should be made and a replacement found who can inject the skill factor in the midfield needed to unlock defences at that level. At the end of the day, every player whether he’s a great or average test player has a used by date and JdV is approaching his imho.
18 Nov 2012, 22:27 pm
@Heavens Game-692: he was your messiah full tilt.. I think we should go re visit that thread when you were regaling the auspicious virtues of your new found leader of Bok rugby to lead us out of the pit that Dippy Div had set us in.. and you were convinced without any doubt this was your man, your long lost last white hope to lead you to your promised land.. now you not so sure no more, so when did the turnaround come?,
I saw his Achilles heel from day one but you were truly in support of these heathen from the blue drawn curtain of pale skin supremacy… pity it took you so long because now all your heralding love for the messiah has turned to hate, that is how unsuspecting love goes, when it gets thwarted in its desire for fulfillment it turns to hate, its only a natural reaction.
18 Nov 2012, 22:30 pm
@cab-698: that exactly what I said, PdV made the mistake of taking Jakes set in its ways team.. he should rather have bide his time for a better scenario, they controlled him and overturned his natural flair visionary style, and Meyer should have had those little JW loaned chillun of his he was so enamored with, his darlings he brought up through blou blommetjies kindergarten
18 Nov 2012, 22:31 pm
@wnbb-695: Whats a “real” South African? You…
If so, then Godforbid me being a “real” South African…
- a closed minded
- myopic
- barely literate
- piglet
18 Nov 2012, 22:33 pm
kambaya my lord kumbaya – the good news is that i believe the scientists have discovered another planet perenium just next to uranus.
18 Nov 2012, 22:33 pm
HG has developed the knack to back the wrong horse for a good while now.His predictions have become the stuff of legend on keo as well.
18 Nov 2012, 22:35 pm
@Te Rangatira-701: he is approaching it or maybe already approached it, but JdV is not the fundamental problem in the Bok back line, Pienaar at 9 and a non international compliant 10 is the secondary problem, JdV would function fine if a decent 9 and 10 were playing to a quick tempo fast pace distributing game, and JdV was further out, not at 12 but 13, or even switch with JPP on certain plays by bringing the more robust JPP to partner De Jongh at 12.
18 Nov 2012, 22:39 pm
@skopdiekan-702: Go visit… Farkoff and go. While you at it you can go stroke your ego, while Id and you lie to one another to your hearts content…
And I dare you to find context too…
But you won’t because you are as narrow minded as Herstigte Heyneke and the rest of Storming Norming/Pink Cow non performing “structured” skop en jag acolytes…
You mythologize to morph uncomfortable truths into your myopic world view… Just like the other closed minded fools… Yet you try and portray yourself as some mad halfarsed original… You aren’t. You are a regurgitating parrot sitting on the shoulder of your nearest bullshitting bumpirate…
No different to the rest of the dumbfuck sheep…
18 Nov 2012, 22:39 pm
the scientist can only ‘discover’ what already exists, the scientists don’t really discover anything they only uncover what the didn’t know before, that does not make them all knowing, all it does is take them from being absolutely unilaterally dumb and non knowing to slightly smarter with slightly more knowledge than they had previously.
18 Nov 2012, 22:39 pm
@Heavens Game-704: Listen here,mate…and listen well.I can’t farking help it that you are a farking Zimbo!!OK?
18 Nov 2012, 22:41 pm
lol
i see big B telling stories about when he in kindergarten campus – fk me you dudes must have all been into the same hippy **** – all that peacepipe could’ve floated the hindenberg.
18 Nov 2012, 22:44 pm
@wnbb-706: I tell who is a “wrong horse” – the wrong eeh-awing dumbfool donkey that quite obviously sired you after some tomfoolery around the pole, the person who is probably ashamed enough to own up to mothering you, was dancing…
Thats the definition of a “wrong horse”, that is
18 Nov 2012, 22:45 pm
@Heavens Game-708: I think I enlist transie to go find that thread where you were cockahoop over the moon at your new found messiah who was about to lead you to rugby heaven.. now you wanna refute it.. that is exactly how much of an about turn two faced bullshit artist you are.. you were over the moon enamored with the fact that Heyneke Meyer had been appointed as Bok coach and he was going to lead you to Kitch Christie type immortality.. and his initial selection was just up your black white myopic alley.. I gonna ask transie to bring that failing memoryof yours to light
now you turn 180 degrees retrograde and its everyone else who are talking ***** while it was YOU who were singing Meyers praises as your new white hope above hope.. he was not mine.
18 Nov 2012, 22:45 pm
@skopdiekan-707:
Rearranging the deck chairs to accommodate a certain individual is not the best way forward. Agree with you that there are fundamental flaws at 9 -10 which have been exasperated by the coach being a blind fool who suffers from pigheadedness
18 Nov 2012, 22:48 pm
JdV is actually an enigma, everyone always said he got such a great rugby kop on him, but he been playing 12 for a number of years now outside allsorts of 9s and 10s, and Frans Steyn is far more effective at 12 on every occasion he drafted in for boks – even at wp, jdv was better outside de wet barry and outside de jong.
18 Nov 2012, 22:49 pm
you up that pisswilly little peace pipe smoking self made ‘scientific’ skeptic thinking hippy back side,, the little coward so chicken of reality he still running and cowering from the likes of those who tell him to his flowery hippy face he’s a bullshitter, same as you scientific idiots who pretend you look for truth when its the last thing you ever really seeking, all you wanna know is when your next boerewors braai byeenkoms is happening.
18 Nov 2012, 22:51 pm
@wnbb-710: “Mate” is not the word you use to address me, okay… A “mate” in your worldview is probably someone you meet in one of those BayofPiglet parties the likes of you probably find yourself at when you can actually tear yourself away from you computer and this blog 24/7…
Farken “mate”… You wouldn’t know the meaning…
18 Nov 2012, 22:51 pm
He hates HM only now because in his twisted mind he believes that HM has turned his precious Lambie into a MS clone.Lambie had a shocker yesterday and now he and his fellow Sharkies are spitting mad,blaming HM.In my opinion they are pissed off at themselves because they absolutely believed that Lambie would ignore HM’s instructions and play his own game.Now they even want Lambie not to be selected for HM’s future Bok teams.This got nothing to do with him seeing the light.It all boils down to one player not fulfilling their aspirations and hopes.At the end of the day HM forced Lambie to play to HIS instructions,plain and simple…..and now,and only now,they suddenly see the light!
18 Nov 2012, 22:54 pm
@Te Rangatira-714:
JdV should play at 13 and JdJ at 12, with Hougaard at 9 and a decent 10 Boks won’t have a problem.. the problem starts at 9 and filters on to 10, and it stops right there, don’t get into second gear because at 10 the game plan stops abruptly.. that is if it gets past 9.
@cab-715: Frans Steyn is no great shakes at 12.. not like the hype surrounding him, he might be more physical than JdV but he’s no match winner like everybody been touting what a genius play maker he is.. he’s slow and hefty, like Mallet says may as well play Alberts at 12 in HM’s back line strategy.
18 Nov 2012, 22:55 pm
ja verseker … when is the next boerewors byeenkoms happening? biltong en boerewors en worcester sauce….a i ai ai smaaklik
actually those poofda veggie fallafell things u have are bladdy nice, best thing i ever tasted in soho, but then i realised daar’s geen vokken vleis — we are flesh-eating orangutang carniovers, its not right.
18 Nov 2012, 22:56 pm
@skopdiekan-716: Skop, please don’t lump Gat in with us. He can’t count for starters.
18 Nov 2012, 22:57 pm
@skopdiekan-713: Go… Go find whatever quote you want to morph into the myhtologizing bulldust that you think is the best way to ma.sturbate youself, Id and your ego… While you at it you can fantasize to yourself, your ego and whatever multinic you call yourself lately to your hearts content about how “knowledgeable” you are about backline play and just about everything else too…
At the same time you could probably shove your head straight up your talking ar.sehole and discover that the sun truly does shine out of there…
Thats how much you truly know about Bok rugby and backline play… Everything bar the magic farken mushrooms…
18 Nov 2012, 22:58 pm
@skopdiekan-719: Frans distributed just fine at 12 at his French club and at 12 during the ’07 WC. The problem is how Steyn is being utilised.
Now Frans at 12 and Juan at 13 outside of a nippy 9 and a good 10… With quality wings and a fullback who dares to counter-attack or join the line to create an overlap (god how I miss Andre Joubert’s days….) …
18 Nov 2012, 23:00 pm
@mikeybrass-723:
yip u got it.
18 Nov 2012, 23:01 pm
His fellow Sharkies,after singing HM’s praises just two weeks ago,are,on other rugby blogs,also calling for HM to be removed as Bok coach.What is that saying?Are their support for the Boks or their coach limited to the welfare of Lambie in the Bok set-up??If that’s the case then I absolutely agree with Kaizan and others that we don’t need their support.
18 Nov 2012, 23:02 pm
Am over and out…
Thrown enough pearls to the swine, varkies and piglets for them to make necklaces to farken stifle themselves in their own myopic swill masquerading as rugby “kennerdom” on this Storming norming propaganda mouthpiece…
18 Nov 2012, 23:03 pm
@skopdiekan-719:
Ok…..getting the 9-10 axis right will alleviate problems for the outside backs and Jdv may get a second wind and start carving…..something that all rugby folks will like to see. Catch you up mate…
18 Nov 2012, 23:04 pm
@cab-724: We have such players
They aren’t being picked and utilised properly. We don’t have a decent backline coach and we don’t have a head coach who understands the role of backline play.
I need another glass of wine. I’m depressing myself.
18 Nov 2012, 23:04 pm
I have to add that their praise singing of HM started with the selection of Lambie as ten….obviously!
18 Nov 2012, 23:05 pm
@Heavens Game-722: nothing whatsoever to fantasize about it.. you said it in full blown adoration of the Meyer principle of Bok supremacy.. its emblazoned on this site in your own indelibly etched opinions and hail the coming of the Meyer messiah.. it wasn’t me falling for his ruse, it was you who fell for it, now you wanna try pretend you saw him coming all along when some of us.. like myself was telling you then already what he’s about.
shows you might think you know whats cutting when its pretty clear you don’t.. time you started listening when we that can see drop these premonitory hints, then all this anguish and about turn misplaced patriotic fervor you suddenly face don’t need to kick you in your over expectant teeth.
18 Nov 2012, 23:06 pm
@skopdiekan-730: Gat went BOOM
18 Nov 2012, 23:06 pm
Running off,nowadays seem to to be the HG way when he runs out of idiotic things to say.
18 Nov 2012, 23:07 pm
@mikeybrass-728:
yep not looking great, and i think next week could be v tough – the thing with this bok side is there are just too many good players to really go wrong, but a loss to england will infuriate those from bloubul country no end.
18 Nov 2012, 23:08 pm
@Te Rangatira-727: so long Te Ranga
see you around
18 Nov 2012, 23:08 pm
@cab-733: We will beat England only if we change tactics like we did against Ireland. And that includes the ball seeing more air than dirt, with 13 being introduced to it again.
18 Nov 2012, 23:10 pm
@mikeybrass-731: more like boom biddy boom biddy boom biddy boom biddy boom biddy boom biddy boom boom boom
18 Nov 2012, 23:11 pm
@skopdiekan-736: LOL. Too true
18 Nov 2012, 23:14 pm
On numerous occasions HG made his name ‘gat’ on this forum.To come on here today saying that he was against HM ‘s appointment in the first place is nothing short of a bad joke.He was the first one loudly proclaiming that HM would take us to places never seen before.He was right,HM took us to the Kukhuis of mediocre rugby,
18 Nov 2012, 23:18 pm
@wnbb-738: Gat’s nether-regions is something never before seen by any human.
18 Nov 2012, 23:21 pm
yip felafel is like staple diet to those who know what is right for human consumption and whats not, the beduin in the desert been eating that stuff like felafel and humus and olives and goats cheese and flat unleavened bread since Moses fell off his camel, that the stuff for longevity and healthy life style.. its about time you found the right chow to guzzle on soho main street.
18 Nov 2012, 23:23 pm
time out…
so long
18 Nov 2012, 23:46 pm
@skopdiekan-740: Hhmmmm felafel. LOVE IT. Married to a Maltese woman.
19 Nov 2012, 08:45 am
“since Moses fell off his camel”
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