Bok standards unacceptably low
19 Nov 2012
JON CARDINELLI says that while this Springbok side shouldn’t be expected to attack like the All Blacks they shouldn’t be excused for performances devoid of innovation, precision and potency either.
A colleague of mine asked a question in the build-up to the Murrayfield Test, a question that summed up a prevailing expectation: ‘How much will this Bok side need to win by in Edinburgh to get a pass mark?’
The All Blacks had set the bar high with a 51-22 thrashing of Scotland, an astounding attacking display that served to highlight the New Zealanders’ global superiority in breakdown play, vision and execution. It seemed my colleague, and I suspect many South African supporters, would not be content unless the Boks savaged Scotland in a similar manner.
Personally, I had tempered my expectations. I argued that the All Blacks were a world champion side, that they had the players in the forwards to dominate the point of contact as well as ensure a quick ruck recycle, and that their backs had the vision, skill and precision to complement that high-tempo approach.
I believed that this Bok side could not compare, as the absence of nine first-choice players (read Beast Mtawarira, Bismarck du Plessis, Andries Bekker, Schalk Burger, Juan Smith, Fourie du Preez, Johan Goosen, Frans Steyn and Bryan Habana) would limit their collective potency.
And yet, I still expected this present Bok side to convert the majority of their attacking opportunities in a clinical if not spectacular manner. Indeed, if you total the number of times they crossed the gainline on Saturday, and the number of times they worked their way into the opposition 22, the end result should have been far more than just 21 points and two tries, one of which was an intercept.
The Boks scored their first try through a powerful and clinical forward drive. It was a fine way to start the game, and seemed to signify that the Boks were in the mood to execute. Unfortunately, it was the only example of potency.
There are numerous examples of individual players bashing their way beyond the gainline, or in a few cases, using their feet to beat one or two defenders. Unforgivably, the Boks failed to maintain this attacking pressure beyond a few phases.
The forwards did well in several facets last Saturday, most notably on defence, but their ball retention at the rucks left a lot to be desired.
The Bok backline hasn’t enjoyed much of an opportunity to settle this season, but they should still be operating at a higher standard. That lack of synergy was patent last Saturday, with players performing as individuals rather than as combinations. Worryingly, these players also showed a lack of patience and decisiveness on attack.
The Boks would earn the opportunity to attack from deep within the opponents’ half, but it seemed that once they had played themselves into these positions, they didn’t have a clue of what to do next.
I still don’t believe that you can compare this Bok side to the All Blacks team that is currently touring Europe. Having said that, the Boks’ recent attacking performances shouldn’t be accepted as standard, not by the Bok coach, players or fans.
The Boks are not the All Blacks, but as another colleague keeps reminding me, they are not Romania either.
The level of execution is unacceptably poor at present. While I maintain that the next Test against England will determine the success of this tour, I cannot discount the underwhelming attacking performances against Ireland and Scotland, and what they may portend for the finale at Twickenham.
England are a far tougher defensive unit than their Celtic counterparts, and won’t offer South Africa as many attacking opportunities. What this means is that the Boks will need to be far more clinical than they have been in the past fortnight.
They won’t get seven or eight chances to score tries, and won’t be afforded as many shots at goal either. They need to make the most of each venture into opposition territory.
That needs to be the message from the coach, the support staff, and the senior players. The focus and attitude needs to change this week. I’m not advocating a radical change in strategy, I’m simply suggesting that Heyneke Meyer and company demand a higher level of execution. And in demanding a better attitude, Meyer should also look to himself for an improvement.
Adriaan Strauss has enjoyed a strong tour, but Meyer’s failure to deploy reserve hooker Schalk Brits has been unfathomable.
Brits has no defensive deficiencies, and has proved himself to be a strong set-piece exponent over the past three European seasons. Significantly, he has the potential to lift the tempo in the second stanza, to add some spark to the attack.
The Bok starting line-up needs to deliver a more clinical showing at Twickenham, and Meyer needs to back his bench to build on that performance in the second half.
It is also time for Meyer to back Elton Jantjies as a matchday squad member. Morné Steyn is not an impact player, and if he is not good enough to be in the staring line-up he is not good enough to be in the squad.
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194 Comments
19 Nov 2012, 05:31 am
These dragons show as much attacking prowess as a herd of marauding hippos
19 Nov 2012, 06:19 am
@guangzhoupoes-1:
spoken like a true non-african…
if only that were true…
hippos are responsible for more human deaths than any other large animal in africa…
an angry hippo in full flight is a very very dangerous animal and a fearsome sight indeed…
19 Nov 2012, 06:25 am
Nothing would stop a herd of marauding hippos…
19 Nov 2012, 06:32 am
Yes but hippos dont score tries
19 Nov 2012, 06:33 am
Save this copy, Keo. You can re-use it next year again. Nothing would have changed. Meyer is a one-dimensional coach with a mediocre set of assistants. Van Graan who is branded as the coach in charge of attack, seriously lacks experience and creativity. Meyer and his inner circle are performing poorly with the wealth of talent they’ve got at their disposal.
19 Nov 2012, 06:45 am
@Johannes_Lombard you get the point I see.
19 Nov 2012, 07:14 am
oh shame, you silly silly goons…
goon1 makes silly analogy
goon2 does not understand analogy and points out the literal
and somehow they think they’re on the same page…
as far as hippos scoring tries is concerned… let me alert you to the fact that they don’t play rugby…
the same however cannot be said about them attacking… which they will do at the drop of a hat…
19 Nov 2012, 07:19 am
This team has gotten worse throughout the year. I have never felt this disappointed in the future of a bok team as I due at the moment.
19 Nov 2012, 07:30 am
@ufo-7:
19 Nov 2012, 07:30 am
Boks 17-21 Scotland
Yip, that was the score last time we played. I know which scoreline I prefer no matter how little attacking flair we showed.
19 Nov 2012, 07:40 am
@ufo-3:
Indeed. Never get between a hippo and water.
p=mv (linear momentum is the product of mass and velocity)
p = 3,000kg x 9 m/s
p = 27,000 kg.m/s
That is the same momentum as a small car, like a Fiat Uno, hitting something at 100km/h.
19 Nov 2012, 07:42 am
The big problem that needs to be looked at lies with the backs. But in time they will settle into an effective unit too, but probably not on this tour… HM realises that they need to be more effective on attack when they keep ball in hand… And I believe he will somehow rectify this problem in time. Be it by bringing in some help (like White did with Eddie Jones) or changing the tactical approach when on the front foot. His frustration with the team’s inability to score tries when they are in the goal area is a good sign that he acknowledges this problem that will need to be fixed as soon as possible..And he’s on record saying it might be a coaching problem…
HM surely must have lost some faith in the current backline coaching staff… After (correct me if im wrong) 11 games, which is more than enough time with the backs, they havent convinced me that they have what it takes to mould a dangerous backline. The skills levels aren’t up to standard and the backs just dont look threatening at all. Time to make some changes next season.
HM credits himself as a ‘fixer’ let see him fix this problem…
19 Nov 2012, 07:44 am
The All Black team that destroyed Scotland and never got out of second gear had only 8 players from the Bok game in Joburg. Meyer constantly complains about the missing players and how hard his job is because of that while the All Blacks are playing 30 players over four games and giving everyone a start and will still win every game easily.
We have a coach who plays not to lose, is too conservative to take small risks and has created a team that plays with no confidence. No attacking skills at all, and an inability to hold on to the ball and score through phased play. Things are getting worse not better and we are going backward. The only thing more shocking that the mediocrity being served up by the Boks is the rubbish being served up the home unions. Outside of France, who look really sharp and balanced, the rest of the teams look bereft of any attacking skills at all. They look clueless.
19 Nov 2012, 07:46 am
@Taahirah-9:
@WP-Forever-11:
yeah… anyone with even a passing interest in african wildlife knows this hey…? never done the math but had a very close encounter many moons ago in a reed tunnel on the banks of the sabi river…
it’s a mistake you never make twice… you either die or learn…
19 Nov 2012, 07:50 am
While we’re on the topic:
Jean de Villiers crashball -
p = 103kg x 10 m/s
p = 1,030 kg.m/s
19 Nov 2012, 07:51 am
@WP-Forever-15:
Somebody please ensure Heyneke does not see this post.
Next thing we know he’ll be looking to select some hippopotami since they fit in with his game plan.
19 Nov 2012, 07:52 am
P=poesklap?
19 Nov 2012, 07:54 am
Wiki on the Pedia again.
19 Nov 2012, 07:54 am
@Jeez-12:
Two issues we have in the backline, Pienaar is a good stand-in but to slow to get the backline moving. End of the day he is just that, a stand-in. The problem though is that the blue eyed kid suppose to take over lost all form and is currently wasted on the wing. Another S15 will sort this out and Hougaard will either be back or replaced by someone who performed in the S15.
The other is at #12, JdV for all he has done is over the hill and bar a few straight runs where he tends to lose possession he does little else. When we find a new captain we can sort out this problem.
19 Nov 2012, 07:55 am
@WP-Forever-15:
and for a donkey…?
apologies to jean…
19 Nov 2012, 07:56 am
I could not watch the game live since I am living in africa and had no power…
So I watched the game afterwards and thought since I know it is not going to be a spectacle like my young days where me and my brother would rewind and watch some tries over and over, I rated every player to see how they stack up…..here is my findings!
1.Guthro 4/10 Not much to shout about and I think we have better for future.
2. Strauss 4/10. Ok he scored two tries but I am going to use this line a lot…..he is not going to win the WC for you. Over rated I recon……tries hard but not really the answer!
3. Jannie. 3/10. Overrated piece of…… Ok he can scrum some when we have the hit, but his basic skills are pathetic for a bok….dropped clear passes when we needed the ball to be kept alive. Also some times the offload would work better than just fall to ground and “maak vas”
4. Eben 9/10. What would we do without this man…….if managed right he will be better than Bakkies!
5. Juandre 3/10. Not going to win us the WC. No impact and passenger at best. Missed some tackles and we need more star status….
6. Flow 10/10. We need to keep this guy fit until WC. He will be huge then…..One man proving HM wrong and HM not man enough to say so. HM still chose to highlight his carrying abilities rather than the FETCHING!!! Sad from HM
7. Alberts 7/10 Better game and had bigger impact than previous test. He is the only guy who should follow HM game plan to the T
8. Duane 8/10. No he is not Spies, but go watch the game again. When he carry the ball it almost always come out clean, since the defender is worrying to bring him down and not bothered to contest the ball. It is no coincidence WP won their first final when he was fit! He is not the flash type but the first player you mis when he is not there!
9 Ruan. 4/10 Not our future. When you have just won counter attack ball and you kick it straight into touch……I will lose it! How can our boks make mistakes like that. (Coach?)
10. Lambie. 3/10 He should get JDJ and tell him….I am going to skip donkye JDV and lets play some ruggas. He clearly wants to play, but it is sad to see how he tries to please the coach. Mistakes like not clearing after he was nicely covering up the charge down only to be charged down himself shows lack of confidence in what he does best as natural player……SHHHHHHSSSSS Dont use that term near HM!
11. FH 3/10 Midget must either be SH of lets get some real speed and height on our wings…..Mvovo?????
12. JDV 4/10 DO the right thing and retire. Main reason our backline is going nowhere and because of his absence WP won the CC!
13. JDJ 7/10 He can tackle, brings X factor and give the man some ball. Instead he is instructed to clear rucks after JDV has bashed.
14. JPP 7/10 He needs ball and we can see why he is not what he was at Sharks…..they gave him running ball…we at boks want him to defend……waste of great player.
15. Zane 3/10 Ok so what does he bring….really. He did look like he wanted to play, but it is getting harder and harder as HM is moered over the head with chip and chase.
Replacement of note…… Flip 0/10 Would HM be so kind to Keegan or JDJ if they gave away cards like this guy??????
Brits, 8/10. # min on park made two steals won penalty….hell did more than Juandre all afternoon!
Marcel….6/10 Trying his best to impress HM with his physical game….not hard when that is the only thing HM rates.
And for the coach and his assistants…….2/10. Nothing to inspire me to go to the pub and watch this dribble live when the power goes out!
19 Nov 2012, 07:56 am
@Slartibartfast-19:
I think Francois Louw would make a fantastic candidate for the Springbok captaincy.
19 Nov 2012, 07:57 am
@Slartibartfast-19:
Pienaar was horrid at 9.
Slow and indecisive.
And his kicking game was abysmal.
19 Nov 2012, 07:58 am
@WP-Forever-15:
Except JdV is way slower than that, at 0.5m/s we end up with p = 52 kg.m/s
19 Nov 2012, 08:02 am
@WP-Forever-22:
If he moves back home permanently, if he needed a stand-in I would go with Strauss.
@gunther-23:
His normal game?
19 Nov 2012, 08:03 am
yeah… was a most disappointing game…
hope heyneke and the guys can somehow turn this around… but have huge doubts…
i am worried about this england game…
they’re disappointed with losing to aus and it seems heyneke and jean are happy with how things are going…
not a recipe for a great game…
19 Nov 2012, 08:08 am
@WP-Forever-22: Agree leads by example.
@Hoops-21: Have to disagree with you about JDV, gave us amazing momentum at the gaine line, but he needs to vary his play a bit, on a set piece he needs to use the width a bit more, but one recylced play he is an ideal player to recieve the ball at speed, maybe switch JDJ/ JDV?
19 Nov 2012, 08:14 am
Heyneke Meyer’s gameplan actually requires the following team selection given the squad he’s selected:
1. Gurthro Steenkamp
2. Adriaan Strauss
3. Jannie du Plessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Juandre Kruger
6. Francois Louw
7. Willem Alberts
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Ruan Pienaar
10. Morne Steyn
11. Marcell Coetzee
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Schalk Brits
14. Arno Botha
15. Zane Kirchner
The centres and wings under his strategy essentially fulfill the role of extra ball-carrying loose forwards.
19 Nov 2012, 08:15 am
What baffles me is that all of the backline problems come from the current issue in South Africa regarding being competitive. Yes I am talking about affirmative actio. I ask you this, would Ricardo Loubscher (the FB in the worst bok team ever) have been the current backline coach if he was white?
HM wanted AC to be backline coach but AC told him where to stick it and thus he was stuck with Loubscher who is so carp that Van Graan is now also attack coach. What the hell does Ricardo do then if not teach the backline to attack?
How can we hope to front competitively in sport when our country burns? When politics control everything and race is more important than competitance?
Any South African sports team will always play with a handicap, a ten ton ball chain lablled “owned by the ANC”.
19 Nov 2012, 08:16 am
@Hoops-21: I love these kind of posts !!
Hoops ,the only players to get higher than a 7 were the wp players .Eben got a 9 ,seriously ?? Eben has been abysmal ,compared to his super rugyby and currie cup form.
Duane Vermulen has been a huge let down to me ,he does nothing ,and neither does Juandre Kruger.
Lambie was poor ,but he is being forced to play a certain way .
19 Nov 2012, 08:19 am
@WP-Forever-28:
Set-piece…scrumhalf to the flyhalf…kick for touch OR
pass to the inside centre – crash ball – recycle – crash ball – recycle – crash ball – recycle…
19 Nov 2012, 08:20 am
Did anyone else see how confused Adriaan Strauss looked when he intercepted that ball for his second try?
There were no opposition players for him to crash into…
19 Nov 2012, 08:22 am
@WP-Forever-28:
A centre is just a loosie who can catch.
19 Nov 2012, 08:28 am
i believe part of the problem is heyneke’s apparent insistence on “teaching” the players how to play his style of rugby…
to reach the top in any sport you don’t want to be thinking about the basics… you”d have taken care of that since you were a laaitjie and at international level you should be letting instinct take over and using your top two inches to win the psychological battle with your opposition…
but some of our guys are so busy focusing on heyneke’s style and so fearful of getting it wrong that you can see them taking time to think about and execute a style of play that does not come naturally to them and they aren’t even thinking about getting into the heads of the opposition…
heyneke really should select the players who can follow his style instinctively instead of trying to reinvent guys like lambie and de jong and rhule etc… i really don’t mind if he picks 15 bulls or 15 sharks… or whoever… as long as he and they understand each other and what is expected of them… and can execute it without having to stop and think about it…
19 Nov 2012, 08:30 am
@WP-Forever-32:
he said afterwards he was not sure if the whistle had been blown or not and so turned to see if it was okay to carry one cause he didn’t want to look silly and run all the way to score a try after the whistle…
some players may have disappointed… adriaan is not one of them…
19 Nov 2012, 08:32 am
The most frustrating thing about watching this team is the fact that they have never moved on from second gear. That little patch against a weak 13 man Aussie team at Loftus was never gonna be enough to really convince anyone.
Heyneke Meyer just like Robbie Deans , a great record in Super Rugby but done nothing on the international stage to raise optimism.
19 Nov 2012, 08:39 am
@ufo-34:
That hit the nail on the head!
Mediocracy is the name of the game in SA, not just in sport, but pretty much all over.
Government posts are reshuffled if some don’t perform etc. so in many people’s view a win equates to succes.
Perhaps his contract is win based, so he will be pleased with an ugly win.
I’m glad that the majority of supporters still find ugly wins in nothing games unacceptable. If they should make a semi or final in a WC an ugly win would suffice, but anything in between, not so much
19 Nov 2012, 08:48 am
@Hoops-21:
“21.Hoops said:
19 Nov 2012, 07:56 am
I could not watch the game live since I am living in africa and had no power…
”
Hippos break the cables?
19 Nov 2012, 08:50 am
Our hippos CAN score tries
19 Nov 2012, 08:51 am
@nortierd-37:
shot bud…
yeah… obviously winning is important but i’ve always said it is more important to me how we play the game… a loss in a game of excellent, strategic, creative running rugby against a side that happens to do all that on better on the day is easier to accept than a ‘lucky’ ugly win against an opponent that would have beaten us if they’d taken their penalties…
as stomers supporters we understand this… we’ll take the wins… but heck… would love to see some beautiful rugby being played whether we win or not…
BTW…
could you be who i think you are…?
19 Nov 2012, 08:51 am
@nortierd-37:
I’m getting very worried that I’m losing touch with English language
“Medicocracy” – is that new for mediocrity?
Also other day I saw “idiocity” – which was supposed to be “idiotic”
19 Nov 2012, 08:54 am
@Dawn-38:
I think he means it hasn’t reached his village yet.
****** knows how he’s managing on the Internet .
maybe he’s hooked his Amstrad up to a hamster wheel.
19 Nov 2012, 08:54 am
@ufo-40: He sounds very pissy, doesnt he?
19 Nov 2012, 08:54 am
@Slartibartfast-19:
I doubt that its just the players who are the main cause for impotent backline play…
A few weak/bad selections dont account for the lack of ball the wings are
receiving…
The skills levels arent up to international standard… No off loading, creating space etc etc … the backs seem to be clueless and without any confidence to spread the ball.
The Lions are a good example of a team who are very comfortable spreading the ball and having a go at the opposition and I reckon they gain that confidence after being coached to do so… A decent backline coach can have such an influence on a bok backline, like Eddie Jones did with the worldcup squad. He made a major impact just after a few weeks. 11 games and the backs just seem as stale as they have been all season.
But I agree JDV and Hougaard not fit for a starting spot. Im starting to realise the class of JFourie and the need for a specialist winger, but at this point the ball hardly goes beyond JDV… The biitching about Kirchner is actually so pointless, because the backs dont really do much to warrant a better player coming into the line, because they hardly run the ball with width.
19 Nov 2012, 08:55 am
@Dawn-41:
Mediocracy: a dictatorship that strives for mediocrity…?
perhaps…
19 Nov 2012, 08:55 am
@Taahirah-43:
hehehe…
19 Nov 2012, 08:55 am
@Dawn-41:
Lol Dawn, spellcheck strikes again.
I’ll accept your version, what I meant
19 Nov 2012, 08:59 am
@nortierd-47:
Apparently there is some new-fangled version of English around
Wnbb kukked me out other day cos I’d never heard of it
19 Nov 2012, 09:05 am
@Dawn-48:
It was started by Ollie North and perpetuated by George W.
19 Nov 2012, 09:14 am
Bok standard is bog standard
19 Nov 2012, 09:17 am
Cheetahs fighting to keep Juan
Cape Town – The Cheetahs are doing everything within their powers to try and stop loose forward Juan Smith from moving to France.
Smith has fully recovered from an Achilles injury, and is apparently close to signing a deal with French club Bayonne. English club Bath is also eager to sign the 31-year-old.
Smith was not among the nine loose forwards – Marnus Schoeman, Justin Downey, Leon Karemaker, Lappies Labuschagné, Davon Raubenheimer, Tertuis Daniller, Philip van der Walt, Heinrich Brüssow and Boom Prinsloo – recently named in the Cheetahs’ provisional 2013 Super Rugby squad.
However, coach Naka Drotské on Sunday confirmed to the Volksblad website that they are trying to convince Smith to stay on in Bloemfontein.
Business interests in Bloemfontein could play a part in Smith’s final decision.
Smith hasn’t played since he got injured playing Super Rugby for the Cheetahs against the Bulls in February 2011, while the last of his 69 Tests for the Springboks was against England at Twickenham in November 2010.
19 Nov 2012, 09:21 am
@David-49:
I don’t think you should be taking English lessons from Capo.
19 Nov 2012, 09:25 am
@ufo-51:
He has been a fantastic servant of Free State rugby.
One of the most loyal players around.
I am sure nobody would hold it against him if he went overseas to cash in during his swansong.
19 Nov 2012, 09:25 am
@ufo-51:
Wow, can you imagine Francois Louw and Juan Smith playing together for Bath!
19 Nov 2012, 09:28 am
@ufo-51:
I can’t see them keeping him.
The cheaters have less money than a platteland municipality and he’s just too much of a long shot fitness wise.
he should go to France with their blessing.
19 Nov 2012, 09:29 am
@WP-Forever-53:
absolutely…
one of south africa’s most universally liked and respected players ever… i would back any decision he makes as i’m sure most of us would…
hope he finds his form again… would be great to see him in a bok jersey again…
@WP-Forever-54:
why bath…?
article says he’s going to france…?
19 Nov 2012, 09:32 am
@gunther-55:
yeah gunther… agree with you…
to me the exciting part of the article is that he has apparently recovered fully…
wherever he does play, if he regains his old form, heyneke will surely select him..
19 Nov 2012, 09:35 am
Elementary Dr Cardinelli. Get a damn backline coach who is not a Meyer “yes” man. Why does anyone think Hougaardt is out on the wing and Kirshner is still in the side. The AB’s have 2 genuine wingers versus our one and they have Isreal Dagg who hits the line a speed. If Taute is everything he is cracked up to be why not give him a start at 15 Meyer? It’s %^$%^$%^$ bizarre!
19 Nov 2012, 09:35 am
@ufo-56:
Bath are trying to sign him.
19 Nov 2012, 09:40 am
@WP-Forever-59:
don’t i look a right twat…!!
unreserved apologies… missed that in my excitement that he is fully fit again…
19 Nov 2012, 09:41 am
@WP-Forever-53: @ufo-57:
One player who has nothing to prove.
Ultimate team player and by all accounts a genuine all round nice guy.
Wish him nothing but the best in whichever path he chooses.
19 Nov 2012, 09:43 am
@gunther-42:
look when you phone to find out where the problem is and why the power is off……and they clearly have no clue and serve you some pre worked out answer only for your wife to phone 5mins later and then you get different answer, you know it was not the hippos!
I just laughed and said. I want my KFC also hot, please put on the power…..and the reply was…” I will tell them to hurry up” 8)
I love these adds where they say….electicity usage is too high, please turn of all lights…………’ Well after not having power all weeked I will burn as much as I like thankyou very much!!!!
19 Nov 2012, 09:44 am
@nortierd-61:
indeed…
19 Nov 2012, 09:50 am
In regards to the article above, I tend to agree 100% , the current boks performance is rubbish. HM continues to ask for time for the team to gel, what rubbish , they are playing **** for a number of reasons . 1. The team selection every week is poor, 2. The current game plan is just so old and does not work . 3. The flexibility to let the players , “play” what they see in front of them has been taken away . Yes we have a secondary team playing at the moment , but still we are looking more like a team ranked 8 or 9 th rather than the number 2 team in the world . We have a hell of a long way to go , however will go nowhere fast if HM continues with his poor selections and outdated game plan . Bokke forever !!!
19 Nov 2012, 09:53 am
@AndreVR-64: Andre , he will tell you we wom , much the same as Stormers in S 15, they killed the game but they won.
19 Nov 2012, 09:53 am
won
19 Nov 2012, 09:54 am
we won , felt like a wom
19 Nov 2012, 09:57 am
We are going to start running soon….
19 Nov 2012, 09:59 am
@capebull-65:
I’m happy if the Stormers win.
Nice to have bragging rights in the Bulls Capitol.
And yes, it is unattractive, but it still feels good.
19 Nov 2012, 10:01 am
I believed that this Bok side could not compare, as the absence of nine first-choice players (read Beast Mtawarira, Bismarck du Plessis, Andries Bekker, Schalk Burger, Juan Smith, Fourie du Preez, Johan Goosen, Frans Steyn and Bryan Habana) would limit their collective potency.
Seriously ? Why not add John Smit’s name in there as well. Only first choice bok absent is Habana and probably Bissy
19 Nov 2012, 10:06 am
@nortierd-69: I can not agree , the Bok win felt hollow , cause they killed the game. If Hm comes out and say , we are going to play not to lose, and then play to win later its OK , but to play not to lose is not OK.
19 Nov 2012, 10:06 am
Funny how Meyer gets the blame for Lambie’s up and under outside his 22 from good quick ball.
Lambie has kicked more, that is due to Meyer’s instructions. He also kicked very well at certain times. Better than Steyn! “Our flyhalf needs to dictate play” – Meyer told Lambie.
BUT Meyer will never tell Lambie to kick an up and under just outside his 22 from good ball. Sure, he did it due to his mindset being influenced by the coaches, but Pienaar and Lambie are the decision makers on the field and that decision was poor. Lambie will be a better allround flyhalf after this tour.
19 Nov 2012, 10:11 am
Also some idiots says Flouw is proving Meyer wrong. This is as if Meyer was under pressure to select him???
I will say the following: Louw is proving some WP supporters wrong by showing everyone that Meyer is not as narrow minded as some think. He has no ties with the Bulls and he is also a fetcher. Meyer also brought him in with no pressure to select him. This is proving some supporters wrong on 3 counts.
19 Nov 2012, 10:12 am
Its hilarious all the stormers supporters taking “ugly” wins all year long in super rugby but as soon as it comes to the boks winning ugly is unacceptable.
ja well no fine.
19 Nov 2012, 10:13 am
@capebull-71:
Oh, I agree with you.
The comment regarding the Stormers was tongue in cheek.
After such a dry spell and the Bulls success in the last couple of years I took a lot of justified abuse on the chin, so it’s nice to go to work on a Monday when we win more than lose.
19 Nov 2012, 10:17 am
@nortierd-75: Thats true about
19 Nov 2012, 10:21 am
@gunther-74: Ja, and then they will tell you de Jong is the next Mannetjies Roux. Gio Aplon is the best attacking back in South Africa, Habana is player of the year. Peter Grant is the most underrated flyhalf in SA, but they cannot score 4 tries against the Rebels at home.
Contrary to this the Bulls scored a 36-23 semi final win over the mighty Crusaders with Kirchner, Ndungane, Marius Delport, Jaco Pretorius and Morne Steyn all starting.
19 Nov 2012, 10:27 am
@Horings-73:
Morning Horings! Flouw is proving Meyer wrong.
Firstly Meyer said a fetcher was not needed. He then selects Flouw and he proves that a fetcher is very important in the modern game.
Secondly the Stormers were playing for a trophy, just like the All Blacks did when they won the world cup. You play differently when playing for a trophy as many of you have said before. Stormers won the Conference Trophy and then Western Province went on and won the Currie Cup.
Thirdly Meyer still hasn’t learnt. He is not playing Stormer rugby, he is playing Bulls rugby of 2009 which were played under different rules and with different players. Stormers are defensively good playing that game plan and won many more games.
Finally this is our national team and yes we expect them to win at all costs, but we expect the coach to be honest and consistent in his selection policy. Unfortunately you wouldn’t be able to see the different rule for different players…
Nuff said…
19 Nov 2012, 10:28 am
@gunther-74: we want HM to select all the Stormers. Then we want HM to teach them to play running rugby.
19 Nov 2012, 10:30 am
come to think of it. I can see the correlation now… teaching coaching coaching teaching.
19 Nov 2012, 10:31 am
@shooter-79: Ohdearfuckno.
The Stormers and WP are moving towards a more ball in hand type game – seriaaaaaaaaaaaas. Coaches and players admit that defence alone won’t win them anything, and their medium risk CC style combo forward/back rugga paid of.
Stormers to build on this…
Get our players away from Meyer, as he the damage might be irreversible…..
19 Nov 2012, 10:31 am
@shooter-79: Come … come , even for HM some things are impossible
19 Nov 2012, 10:32 am
1. Drop Kirchner, move Lambie to 15
2. Put Jantjies in at 10
3. Move Juan de Jongh to 12, rest Jean
4. Move JP to 13
5. Bring Mvovo in at 14
6. Drop Backline coach Ricardo Laubscher
7. Hire Nick Mallet as a consultant
8. Drop Kruger, move Alberts to 4 and Etzebeth to 5
9. Drop CJ from bench, replace with JC.
19 Nov 2012, 10:40 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-81: is HM not allowed to build? I think there is progress. The tight forward game is exactly what HM needed to see before this team is going places. Serious even more. Our backline will start showing results soon.
19 Nov 2012, 10:41 am
@Jake_White-83: and from there we take it week by week….. play it by the fancy
19 Nov 2012, 10:44 am
@shooter-84: I want a coach who can build us a “Nkandla”
I’m sorry mate, I just don’t see any improvement at all, from June to now. Zero. I don’t mind anyone stumbling, failing and moving back a few paces when it’s clear there is a long term goal.
I just don’t see that.
When the 1st backline ball we get is kicked haaaaaaaaaaaai in the skaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaai (***dankie Stormersboy***), you know it might be a long afternoon…..
19 Nov 2012, 10:45 am
@Gumboots-78: “Firstly Meyer said a fetcher was not needed” When did he say this. The point Meyer made was he does not pick any fetcher just to have a fetcher in the team. Bismark du Plessis he deemed can play that role better than most local fetchers. Bismark was injured and then Meyer selected a player that had the same attributes most fetchers had in Meyer’s coaching life. I am amazed why the only fetcher in the 2007 World Cup group came from the provincial team Meyer coached if Meyer does not believe in fetchers.
Regarding your last comment. Meyer may have different selection policies for different players. For instance, he told Lambie he needs to work on his tactical kicking game and he told de Jong what he needs from his outside centre. Both these players knew what they needed to work on and Meyer repaid them with a spot in the team. You will hear the following phrase from the players “We knew exactly where we stand with Heyneke”. That is all the players need.
Now let us go back to Mallett, who you all love because he once picked a starting Bok team with 14 players from WP. NOT even his captian at one stage knew where he stood with Mallett. Mallett may be a man of many words, but he is well known for his lack of player management.
19 Nov 2012, 10:45 am
@gunther-74:
it was barely acceptable…
only on the second rung on the acceptability ladder…
1: Winning – playing great creative running rugby
2: losing – playing great creative running rugby to a team playing greater more creative running rugby on the day…
3: winning: playing ugly rugby…
4: losing: playing ugly rugby…
so our stormers acceptance of winning ugly was only due to it being better than losing ugly…!!
but you’re correct… we’re all very contrary and contradictory on keo depending on what colour glasses we’re wearing…
19 Nov 2012, 10:47 am
@Jake_White-83: Which JC, the loose head from the Lions?
19 Nov 2012, 10:47 am
@gunther-74:
but i will be really peeedoff if ac does not continue and expand upon the more open style with the stormers that they were trying to implement with wp…
19 Nov 2012, 10:50 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-86: You think there has been no improvement in our defense or forward play? I know some supporters only see backline moves and this is the ONLY criteria they judge a team on, but I have news for you. The forward play in rugby is much more important than fancy backline moves. Did Meyer achieve success in his first year with a young pack? Yes, he did.
19 Nov 2012, 10:53 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-86: we dominate first and foermost. then we play. subdue and debilitate. I think HM first needed to get that part right. There was lot of focus on that. Alot of concentration. The first test where we played consistently OK for 80 minutes.
You don’t want to see progress. You just want! to swear when we kick the ball. Nevermind all the evidence that we are not even kicking the most of all teams.
Sure I wasn’t that entertained in the strawberry dacquiry way that some would prefer… but tell the Boks who played on Saturday that they weren’t making progress… that they didn’t hurt the opposition in a rugby sense.
If you are England… how do you prepare to nullify the Boks? You think because we played ugly they won’t be shitscared at what’s coming to pitch up this weekend? The Boks are gonna play the same game? Or if they get near the mark where they were this weekend in the first half, the backs won’t give the ball more width…. i think the process is in motion…. slow motion maybe, but still to fast for some to comprehend.
19 Nov 2012, 10:55 am
@Horings-87:
You right! No one ever knows what HM says, because he never makes sense. He speaks in riddles and gains very little respect from anyone… He clearly said he doesn’t need a fetcher, thus no Brussouw, yet Brussouw has been huge in the Bok jersey. Defend him as much as you like – he is a loose cannon and I for one will never believe a word he says. He lies, he confuses and when you watch the players on the field you see confusion and no confidence. He screams like a baby and his actions alone gives no one confidence… He will go down as just another average coach.
Mallet has the results to prove his worth… He tells it as it is… He is not perfect but he knows how to see flaws in the HM plan… I think we all do…
19 Nov 2012, 10:58 am
@shooter-92: what’s more, next time we rock up in Scotland, they won’t be thinking they have chance that casullay.
19 Nov 2012, 10:59 am
I say…. less Super 15… more tests!
19 Nov 2012, 11:00 am
@Horings-91: Having said that year 2 needs to be a year where we see a more balanced approach. The following needs to improve:
1. The decision making from 9, 10 and 12.
2. The coaching of our attacking game and our backline play. Slow ball needs to be made quicker and quick ball needs to go through the hands at speed and flat to the line. For this we need centres that can break the line and put the ball through the hands at speed
3. We need a flyhalf that can vary his play. Lambie, Goosen and Jantjies are these players. A flyhalf that can vary his play increases his options and can execute his decision made in nr 1.
4. Interplay between loosies and backs. We have always been a country blessed with big, strong and skillful loosies. These skills need to be used in a more dynamic approach.
All of this will be made easier, now that we have quality depth in our pack who can control the ball upfront.
19 Nov 2012, 11:01 am
barely acceptable.
all these mallet disciples.
has anyone wondered why he didn’t apply for the job????
or is life just easier being a wiseguy in the supersport studio?
19 Nov 2012, 11:05 am
@gunther-97:
I think Meyer is wishing he didn’t apply either! He thought a few super trophies = international success…
How wrong he was…
19 Nov 2012, 11:06 am
@Gumboots-93: Tell me, who made more steals this year when they played together. Brussow or Coenie?
Did you watch any of the Cheetahs games before the June test window? Did Brussow play well?
This controlled and respected Mallett you are talking about that will not loose his control. Is this the same one that blamed a Bok defeat on his young halves? Is this the same Mallett that lost his marbles by dropping his captain and playing Venter at lock.
19 Nov 2012, 11:10 am
@gunther-97:
Mallet has been there,done that and had success.
I for one love his honesty and wish they would team him up with John Robbie, now that would be fun.
HM got the job, and he has leeway to implement his plans, however if he expected a rah rah chorus with mediocre results, he should have asked Supersport to appoint the Bulls Babes on the panel.
19 Nov 2012, 11:10 am
@Horings-99:
No he didn’t… but then again nor did Steyn, but the coach new what Steyn could do and we as SA supporters new what Brussouw could do!!! You see you even agree to the different rule for different player… Brussouw has never let a Bok team down, yet Steyn and Spies have done so regularly… They are not dropped but players like Keegen are carted without a second chance… No boet I love SA and the Boks, but this coach is dividing everyone, not because he is just dumb but biased…
19 Nov 2012, 11:12 am
@nortierd-100:
Well at least Matfield is singing from the same hymn book… of course he will… HM licked his a r s e to play for the Boks…
19 Nov 2012, 11:14 am
@Gumboots-102:
Ha ha, to true.
Like Forest Gumption and Jenny, two peas in a pod
19 Nov 2012, 11:15 am
@nortierd-103:
Gump
damn spellcheck doesn’t appreciate movies
19 Nov 2012, 11:15 am
@Gumboots-102: Howdy
Matfield reckons van Graan is a superior attack coach. That was about when I started kicking the coffee table and scratching my arms…..
19 Nov 2012, 11:19 am
@nortierd-103:
It is our beloved Boks we are talking about… It is our country and to think some people are happy with mediocre is quite alarming. Coming second shouldn’t be even in our thought process, yet we are happy with playing second, third, fourth fiddle all the time. When we criticize the coach it is because the flaws are there for all to see. Improve and accept that we are playing really poorly and are lucky to be beating the ninth and tenth team in world rugby… Now that is alarming…
19 Nov 2012, 11:21 am
I see Cooper has turned down an ARU contract. No doubt HG will be pushing the Sharks to sign him as he’s the type of 10 that would be at home in Durban.
19 Nov 2012, 11:21 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-105:
For sure… I tell you my vocab has become vile lately… I cannot understand how people are so blind and naiive to see that we are playing ***** rugby…
19 Nov 2012, 11:22 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-105:
How rude… Bonjour…
19 Nov 2012, 11:23 am
@Gumboots-101: So you are saying Meyer is both dumb and biased. I assume biased towards Bulls and no fetchers. Well Louw is the exact opposite.
If Meyer did not believe Louw will make a positive difference. Why did he pick him? Was there enormous pressure on Meyer to pick Louw, based in Bath? Some guys mentioned Louw, but nobody even thought Meyer will think into that direction. If Meyer was so Bulls biased, why did he not rather select D Potgieter or Stegmann for the fetcher role or the young upcoming Bok U20 captain. Why Louw?
19 Nov 2012, 11:25 am
@Gumboots-106:
Yep, we should be thumping sides rated 7 or below, beating sides with more ease rated 3 to 6 and running the AB’s close away and beating them at home….. Come to think of it, we were doing just that some years ago
19 Nov 2012, 11:26 am
@Horings-89: yes
19 Nov 2012, 11:28 am
@David-107: Me thinks he’ll feel more at home in Port Elizabeth…
19 Nov 2012, 11:28 am
@Horings-110:
HM picked Louw because he’s a 7 physically who is also a great fetcher. Not because he’s a specialist 6.
19 Nov 2012, 11:30 am
@Horings-110: Can it be that Louw is not only a fetcher, but also a good ball carrier. Can it be true that this is the only thing Meyer is looking for in his fetcher? Can it be true that he is not thinking whether the player is based in Pretoria, or that he is white, or that he is English.
Can it be true that Meyer is looking for certain players in certain positions to have certain attributes and this is the basis on which he selects players? Now we can go to the next question. Does the coach have the authority to have certain selection criteria that is not based on provincialism or race or any discriminatory factor?
Well if your answer is NO to my last question then we may as well have a poll on each Sunday selecting the Bok team for the next test.
19 Nov 2012, 11:31 am
@Jake_White-112: Why would you select two looseheads on the bench? CJ is not the answer, and we need backup for JdP, but who?
19 Nov 2012, 11:32 am
@Horings-110:
Cos he’s good?
19 Nov 2012, 11:32 am
@Horings-110:
When talking about bias you didn’t answer my question why a very poor and out of form Steyn is chosen to play for the boks and a tried and tested Brussouw wasn’t chosen. Potgieter had two terrible games on the trot and was given more time to prove himself. Keegen was dumped without a second thought. Louw is big and fits ‘HM’s’ obsession with size, thus the opportunity given. It was a short term option from HM but Louw has proved why a fetcher should be the first name on the team sheet. Yes the pressure was on HM to choose a fetcher as his choices were not working. Brussouw was then injured and he had no other option but to select Louw… You know that as much as we know that. Hougaard is playing really poorly at the moment, Steyn is terrible, Niknaks is just steady… Explain the reasoning for continiously selecting such poor performers? Why Steyn? Why Hougaard? Why Kirshner?
19 Nov 2012, 11:33 am
@David-114: You mean he is a specialist fetcher that can also be physical (a Wikus van Heerden type player).
My point exactly. Louw did not prove Meyer wrong. Louw is the player Meyer was looking for from the start!
19 Nov 2012, 11:33 am
@Horings-115:
You gonna flog this horse whole day
OK
Meyer is not racist, not biased
Happy?
19 Nov 2012, 11:35 am
@Dawn-38: Hello good lady.Enjoy your day
19 Nov 2012, 11:35 am
@Dawn-120:
19 Nov 2012, 11:36 am
@Gumboots-118: Because Steyn meets Meyer’s criteria better than Brussow does. Selections are made according to his selection criteria.
Meyer wants a fetcher that can take the ball up physically and he wants a flyhalf that can dictate play with his boot. Not because on is a Bulls player and the other not.
19 Nov 2012, 11:37 am
@Dawn-120: Nie wanneer jy dit se nie tannie.
19 Nov 2012, 11:37 am
@Dawn-41: Government by the medocre
19 Nov 2012, 11:37 am
@Horings-110:
Sorry I didn’t answer the dumb part… HM just needs to open his mouth for that…
19 Nov 2012, 11:38 am
MEDIOCRE
19 Nov 2012, 11:39 am
true…Meyer is dividing SA. His thinking is from 1974. They year we got smashed by the British & Irish Lions.
I cannot see it happening as he has a laager like mentality……but get John Mitchell & Todd Loudren on board asap. And he should ditch his puppies.
19 Nov 2012, 11:40 am
@Horings-123:
But Steyn doesn’t dictate the game and we all know that Jantjies, Lambie and even Catrikillis (tongue in cheek) is better than Steyn now…
Meyer knows what he has in Steyn, Britney and Hougie… Followers and that is what he is looking for…
19 Nov 2012, 11:40 am
@David-114: Correct. And the 1st thing Meyer raves about when talking about Flo, is his size. Kid you not.
19 Nov 2012, 11:41 am
@Horings-123:
What about size??? Does that only apply to certain players? I suppose the other small boy fits his criteria… What is that criteria?
19 Nov 2012, 11:42 am
@nortierd-100:
Do why didn’t he apply?
19 Nov 2012, 11:43 am
@Gumboots-126: Losing the argument I see. Well that is good.
Starting to debate his intellectual capacity without knowing him is dumb. For instance, he incorporated conditioning strategies from gridiron to make the Bulls the most conditioned provincial team in South Africa by far. Other teams took years to be on the same level. Is that dumb. He built structures at the Bulls Rassie Erasmus said he copied at the Stormers. Is a leader in the field dumb? Jy is die domste drol boetie!
19 Nov 2012, 11:43 am
@Gumboots-126: Meeowwwwwwwwwwwwwww
And the claws are out.
Someone said to me in gym this morning, that this country will soon be divided not by political lines, but by “Meyer fault lines”
Those who adore him, and those who abhor him.
19 Nov 2012, 11:45 am
@Horings-119:
No, he’s a 7 who can fetch. That’s the role he played at the Stormers/WP. Unlike a classic fetcher, he’s not the first to the breakdown, but the second. It’s his timing that makes him so effective.
19 Nov 2012, 11:46 am
@Horings-133:
So why are the bokkies playing dumb rugby
19 Nov 2012, 11:47 am
@XV-128: Will John Mitchell and Todd Louden work together. Skop said yesterday he will fix the Boks by selecting this coach and that coach and selecting this player and that player. One question? Who in his right mind will want to work with Skop?
There are some issues we as supporters never think about, because it is easy to coach the Boks. Select a team. Play with it on playstation. Change it a bit and BAM we have a world class team.
19 Nov 2012, 11:47 am
@Horings-133:
We are talking SA rugby now… Not Bulls rugby… We are not interested in what he did at the Bulls. We are interested in what he is doing as SA coach. I may be dumb too, but please show me why he is not dumb at the moment. Why play a plan that is outdated – dumb; why select a player who is so out of form – dumb; why choose a player out of position – dumb; when there are better players available. Maybe the argument is not lost after all…
19 Nov 2012, 11:49 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-134:
Very few who adore that is for sure… When you need to explain why a coach is good when all can see he is poor is clutching at straws… Survival techniqes 101
19 Nov 2012, 11:50 am
@Horings-137:
Dont they like you anymore over at RT
19 Nov 2012, 11:50 am
@Gumboots-138:
Maybe you should sign up for the job.
You seem to have all the answers and a lot of time on your hands.
19 Nov 2012, 11:53 am
@Horings-137: we could select anyone from a group of 60 players in SA and be world beaters. That is the talent we have. It is the coaching that is lacking. Look what Mitchell did with a no name brand team. A coach brings out the best in a players ability. At this time Meyer is having the opposite affect on the players. International rugby is a step too far for him in my opinion.
19 Nov 2012, 11:54 am
@Gumboots-138: Are we winning where other Bok teams have lost. Maybe you are just not seeing his brilliance and think it is dumb.
We are debating his intellect and I am showing you he made many inpirational decisions in the past that a dumb person will not make. Surely we can make the assumption he is the same person with the same intellect.
19 Nov 2012, 11:55 am
@gunther-141:
Why? You think I will be good?
I don’t have the answers, but I’m trying to find them by asking my learned colleague for the HM thought process. I’m debating with Hornings and enjoying it… I’m sure he is too…
You jealous?
19 Nov 2012, 11:55 am
@Dawn-140: I have never blogged there.
19 Nov 2012, 11:56 am
@Horings-143:
“Brilliance.”
“Intellect.”
“Inspirational decisions.”
Did you watch the game on Saturday.
19 Nov 2012, 11:57 am
@Horings-145:
Really.
19 Nov 2012, 11:58 am
@Gumboots-144:
Debating?
Look your english is about as good as Meyer’s.
So maybe you will a good fit.
19 Nov 2012, 11:59 am
@XV-142: You are not showing enough respect to other international players and teams. We have the talent, for sure, but do we have the administration on top. For example if Meyer was selected earlier he could have selected his coaching staff better and he could have ensured a smoot transition by keeping Fourie du Preez, Jaque Fourie, Bakkies Botha and Guthro Steenkamp in South Africa.
19 Nov 2012, 11:59 am
@Horings-143:
So he is winning against Scotland and Ireland so that is inspirational brilliance…Okey…
19 Nov 2012, 12:00 pm
smoot = smooth
19 Nov 2012, 12:02 pm
@gunther-148:
Oh so good english is the criteria to be a good coach… So why didn’t you say so from the beginning… Sorry I don’t fit that criteria… Sorry not a good fit for me either…
Mallet’s English is good… Maybe???
19 Nov 2012, 12:03 pm
@Gumboots-144: Making assumptions are very dangerous.
19 Nov 2012, 12:04 pm
@Horings-153:
Oh –
So why even answer me then?
19 Nov 2012, 12:06 pm
@Horings-153:
Isn’t it: Making assumptions is very dangerous? I may be wrong as my english is not that good either… Gunther assistance here please…
19 Nov 2012, 12:06 pm
@gunther-132:
Wasn’t that the same time he applied for the England post?
I doubt if they would appoint him, a loose cannon in their hallowed halls, they don’t want that.
I don’t think anyone can dismiss his knowledge though, and unlike Meyer, he was still actively coaching till last year.
Meyer seems to have lost his finger on the pulse of new trends and game plans after becoming the Rassie of the Bulls
19 Nov 2012, 12:07 pm
@Gumboots-152:
Of course it isn’t!
look at Meyer, Divvie, Strooli, Markies.
You are a sure thing.
Plus you live in Pretoria
It’s all good.
I’ll deliver your CV to SARU tomorrow morning.
@Gumboots-155:
Correct.
Well spotted.
We’ll take Houding’s CV in too.
19 Nov 2012, 12:10 pm
@gunther-157:
So Pretoria is the criteria then…
Getting it ready as I type…
19 Nov 2012, 12:12 pm
@gunther-157:
You’ve chased Horings away now… I was just starting to enjoy my holidays…
19 Nov 2012, 12:12 pm
@Gumboots-158:
that shouldn’t be news to anyone…
19 Nov 2012, 12:13 pm
@nortierd-156:
It’s unclear whether he applied for the England job.
I think he saw that Lancaster was going to get it.
Who knows, if Lancaster keeps losing Mallet may end up with it after all.
I think AC is next in line there i\f Meyer should have a freak yachting accident organised by Billy and the rest of the Province fans that he has alienated.
A more interesting exercise would be to pinpoint assistants that could take the boks forward.
They have to be realistic though.
19 Nov 2012, 12:14 pm
@Gumboots-158:
I also live in Pretoria, but being an ex Cape Town resident and therefore supporting the Wee Pee and Stormers I realize I have a handicap and therefore humbly withdraw my application.
19 Nov 2012, 12:15 pm
@ufo-160:
Hey bud! How ya doin?
Can’t ask if you enjoyed the rugger on Saturday, at least the cricket starts soon…
19 Nov 2012, 12:15 pm
@ufo-160:
ja because all the recent bok coaches have come from there.
19 Nov 2012, 12:16 pm
@gunther-161:
Just the 2 of them short listed, he lost out.
To England’s detriment I believe
19 Nov 2012, 12:16 pm
@nortierd-162:
I’m also from Cape Town and also support Wee Pee and Stormers so I also don’t qualify…
19 Nov 2012, 12:16 pm
Amazing how many WPians live in Pretoors.
What did you all do to be cast out into the desert?
19 Nov 2012, 12:19 pm
@gunther-167:
The eleven lean years…
19 Nov 2012, 12:20 pm
@gunther-161:
after the game mallett said (in fun) something about really wanting the boks to smash the poms because lancaster had “got the job”… pretty much implying that he had wanted it…
19 Nov 2012, 12:20 pm
@gunther-167:
Couple of years ago they advertised posts to bring some culture and rugby knowledge to the Capitol, lucky us, we got the jobs.
Just kidding of course, before I get moered.
19 Nov 2012, 12:21 pm
@nortierd-165:
Agreed.
To be fair the SARU landscape would have to change dramatically for Mallet to get the job.
It’s like wanting Juan Smith back for the Boks.
A nice idea.
We probably have more chance of getting Kictch back in the driver’s seat.
19 Nov 2012, 12:22 pm
@gunther-167:
‘mazing how many bullitjies live in Slaapstad…
19 Nov 2012, 12:22 pm
@gunther-164:
19 Nov 2012, 12:23 pm
@ufo-172:
Not many.
Anyway we have got it the right way round.
19 Nov 2012, 12:23 pm
@ufo-172:
And Crusaders, Hurricanes etc.,etc……….
19 Nov 2012, 12:30 pm
@gunther-174:
if you insist…
@nortierd-175:
funny how the people they bug the most don’t live in cape town…
they add colour and humour to our culturally diverse and tolerant democratic metrosexopolis…!!
19 Nov 2012, 12:30 pm
@Gumboots-155: Well, it seems there is nothing to talk about when a Meyer fan is not on keo.
19 Nov 2012, 12:39 pm
@Horings-177:
There aren’t many of them whether on Keo or in the streets. I live in Pta and my mates are so peed with him, they cannot wait for him to step aside. By the way they are huge Bulls fans, but can see him at face value…
19 Nov 2012, 12:39 pm
@ufo-176:
Ha ha, true, and they pay the Stormers salary as well by buying tickets, so all good.
I sent in a letter to a mag on that very point, no one complains about Sharks fans at Ellis Park or Stormers at Loftus etc, yet they get vilified.
Just because I live in Pretoria shouldn’t mean I MUST support the Bulls etc.
My roots were formed in WP, so I will always support them, irrespective of which province I live in
19 Nov 2012, 12:41 pm
@Gumboots-178:
That is true, I am actually surprised by that.
But the guys up here know their rugby, so it does make sense that they see it for what it is
19 Nov 2012, 12:42 pm
Supporting WP while living in Pretoria is like being a massive fan of modern dance while doing time in Polsmoor.
19 Nov 2012, 12:44 pm
@Gumboots-178: @nortierd-180: The Bulls fans I know are divided. There are those who like Tac, simply refuse to see beyond Meyer’s alleged greatness.
Then there are the others……
19 Nov 2012, 12:46 pm
@nortierd-180:
They do too… Most think he has become so obsessed with the honour that he has forgotten about the basics… They get so p issed when he says I have chosen so and so and he and the family must be so proud and honoured… WTF… It is like he feels so good capping a new player…
19 Nov 2012, 12:47 pm
@katman-181:
… the doing time in Polsmoor is very true… the other part I’m not too sure of…
19 Nov 2012, 12:49 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-182:
There are the few who believe he actually is the messiah, but then there are those who know the truth… It is like a sect really…
19 Nov 2012, 12:49 pm
@Gumboots-168: Wandering in the wilderness..
19 Nov 2012, 12:51 pm
@katman-181:
Ha ha
At least Mondays were a little bit more sufferable this year.
During 2007 to 2011 it was hell, but it’s getting better
19 Nov 2012, 12:57 pm
A serious question, please people.
As well as he’s playing is Adriaan Strauss not carrying “too much” weight?
Please have a good look at him like I did on Saturday; his “stomach” alone weighs who-knows-how-much and I have serious reservations about him being able to carry on like that for much longer.
I am by no means a medical expert but to me he looks loke a heart attack waiting to happen.
I sure hope I am proved wrong but I was genuinely worried on Saturday.
19 Nov 2012, 13:03 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-188:
Isn’t that indicative of the need for outweighing the opposition?
Everyone seems to dwell on number of caps, collective weight of front row, scrum pack etc.
These stats are probably important, the technical experts can elloborate on that, but shouldn’t be the be -all and end- all
19 Nov 2012, 13:05 pm
@Gumboots-185:
Whether he is or isn’t, he’s getting crucified anyway.
19 Nov 2012, 13:08 pm
@David-190:
19 Nov 2012, 13:08 pm
@ryecatcher-186:
It sure feels like it bud…
19 Nov 2012, 13:48 pm
Semi-dead thread alert Skoppie – is this not a classic example of showing how to be a good winner
20 Nov 2012, 00:59 am
Keo I wouldnt go and call the Goose our first choice player as yet. We are in a transition for that position still. As much as Steyn is a “gonna” I still see him as the number 1 who simply needs rest and relaxation. Bambie did not impressed me enough on Sat, kicked stupidly, posession away in the 2nd half ( I say that as thats all that came about from those “stretegic kicks” he made). Who knows he might have been following “walkie talkie” porotocol…. Can the fella ever smile, he seems so misserable!!!
Panties, the Goose, and Bambie are all still inexperienced to make any judgement as yet. We simply have to play them all and get 10 caps to make a judgement.
And agreed with Blitz Britz, Why have the guy in the team if you dont play him. Yes Strauss played brilliantly, but Blitz Britz is talked about so much that we need to see if he has the qualities at test level. He has more energy too(less tired), because players are managed better in UK than in SA by complusory standards all clubs have to abide to. He is considered one of the most impressive players in the UK and for a few season now and should get the game time.
A waisted opportunity so far.
As far as standards go, I think what should be scrutinised is the lack of consistancy. Both matches were a game of two halves. Perhaps their is a strategy in the background where we might be experimenting tactics or following tactics(good/bad).
Our backline coach seriously needs scrutinising. Education needs to come in drastically. Our two tries against Scotland were poor. One a flook, one from the forwards. (talking about the backline). The players have, or should have enough skills combined with research from coaches of other teams deficencies to pull at least one try against the Scots, with no disrespect to them.
Note, our Forwards, there has been improvement since day one. We cant say the same for the backs, perhaps defence we can compliment to a degree.
And the only comparison we can make regarding the All Blacks, is the gap that exists. The All Blacks have for years now gone for 50 points where we might only ever get 30ish against the same team, and they play a different game style than us. This is a mentality issue that needs adressing but it is not something we need to focus on right now. His Majesty(HM) is not doing to bad considering. We have not had so many injuries as long as I can remember, so this is a different situation we are in.
Loosing to England will be of concern, hopefully we pitch up for this match and have a thinking caps on(no yellow cards).
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