Demanding more from awful Boks
19 Nov 2012
MARK KEOHANE, in his weekly Business Day column, says this has been a desperate end-of-year tour for the Springboks, and to criticise them does not make one unpatriotic.
From a distance this Springbok tour has only depressed me. Does that mean the Springboks depress me? No. Does this mean there is no hope? No.
Forget what next year could hold. Let’s deal in real time with the considerable disappointment for those of us who appreciate the potential within South African rugby and the quality of player that makes up South African rugby.
Each to his own, be it in acknowledgment or denial, but I find it an insult to South African rugby that so many are so willing to call a win a win and dismiss any dismay as disparagement of the Bok coach, management, players and just anti-South African.
Why is there such irrational and ignorant investment of energy? I can’t explain the conservatism of the Springboks’ approach — and I am referring to the coaching staff.
I expected more and rightly so. I’ll take an ugly win in the World Cup final and I’ll take an ugly win every time if it is against the All Blacks. There are times a team will win ugly, but very good teams with aspirations to be great teams mostly win with a swagger more than a stagger.
I know the Bok players have character and that they take seriously the responsibility of playing for South Africa and excelling as national players. If you have to applaud them for this then they’re in the wrong profession. It’s a given.
I understand that among the goals of the Boks between this year and 2015 is to concede the least points in world rugby and to concede the least tries. Nowhere is there talk of scoring the most points and scoring the most tries.
Christmas can’t come soon enough, and I hope the gift of introspection comes wrapped with whatever else makes its way to the home of Bok coach Heyneke Meyer and his support staff. Nothing has been gained from this tour. The Boks can tackle. The Boks can maul. The Boks have character.
I don’t want South Africa to be New Zealand. I want them to be South Africa. Good Springbok teams have always played rugby. The good ones have had more than just character, a desire to tackle and an effective mauling technique.
The good, very good and great Bok teams have trusted their basic skills and believed that the true expression of their talent is in scoring tries and points — and not in how few are conceded.
I have never understood the flippancy with which the words ‘negative’ and ‘positive’ are used within the Bok context. To condemn the Springboks’ performance in Dublin and Edinburgh is apparently a negative. To applaud the win is to be patriotic, passionate and positive. Again, each to their own.
I prefer ‘accurate’ and ‘inaccurate’ when assessing the Boks. Is it accurate to laud a win fashioned by an intercept try and supposedly brutal defence in the last 20 minutes against a side ranked 10 in the world who a week earlier conceded 50 points against the All Blacks?
To talk of being the best requires more than a PowerPoint presentation and a Vince Lombardi quote.
Heyneke Meyer, my preferred choice as Bok coach, seems convinced 2012 was always going to be a struggle and survival was a more appropriate ‘go to’ than sensation. I haven’t been floored by this defeatist attitude but I have been dazed and deflated.
Apparently to tackle is to care if you are a Bok. Apparently to attack is to risk despair.
Where’s the cheer been in this tour? Where’s the evolution?
A week ago I wrote of the fear of failure within the Boks and the restrictive approach that rewards no risk and the possibility of a mistake.
The Boks, regardless of who coaches them, should have beaten Ireland and Scotland. Both teams are inferior in every aspect. Both teams currently don’t have the pedigree of player to threaten a side with the player resource of South Africa.
I will always have an expectation of a nation with two World Cup titles. To demand anything less is to not care; alternatively not to know.
The players know it has been an awful tour in performance and quality. Perhaps more applicably it has been a desperate tour.
I won’t apologise for demanding more from the coach and the players.
A week ago I said the players should embrace the adventure. Some pounced on this as results not meaning anything. Of course they mean everything, otherwise there wouldn’t be a score and there wouldn’t be a winner. But to accept the post-match virtues of character and player pride for the Bok jersey is to accept being second best.
I won’t, and the optimist in me thinks neither will those who assess the Bok performance instead of excusing the lack of performance.
427 Comments
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19 Nov 2012, 14:10 pm
@Nikita-143: Ohfuck. Moses will now take his people and move……
19 Nov 2012, 14:10 pm
Looks like there are a few diehards who will willingly accompany Meyer over the cliff-face while screaming EMOTION. The irony.
19 Nov 2012, 14:11 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-121: yes meyer is instructing lambie to kick ALL our ball away even quick ball! Meyer believes ALL tries come from turnovers hence we must kick our possession away and effect turnovers!
when this does not happen then he calls it “soft moments” . saturdays perfomance has NOTHING to do with losing 7 scrums even if we’d won them we’d still not attack with our backline – read the last line below!!!!
HM: The need for dominance up front is
true of every side in world rugby. The All
Blacks struggled in Dunedin because our
forwards put them under pressure. If the
Wallabies play England and get smashed in
the scrums, their whole game suffers.
Even if you have a plan B, C, D and E,
you’re still going to struggle if your
forwards don’t dominate. Eight of the
fifteen guys in the side are forwards so if
they don’t play well, you’re in trouble,
especially if they can’t get you quick ball.
The kick-offs are the most important
because if you miss it, you’ll get kept in
your own half until the opposition scores.
So you can have a plan B, C and X if you
want, but if you don’t do the basics right,
you’re never going to win.
Plan ‘B’ is a fallacy. You should plan every
situation on its merits.
Johan Goosen did well at Loftus because he
got quality ball. There is no set game plan
where players are told to go out and kick
everything. You want them to read the
situation.
People think there are two types of rugby -
kick and run. That’s not true. Everyone
thinks we played fantastic attacking rugby
against Australia but we made 185 tackles!
That’s the most we’ve ever made. We
scored most of our tries from their
mistakes, because that’s where tries come
from – turnovers.
Ask any guy and he’ll say that because
Goosen was there we played ‘running
rugby’. We didn’t. They ran more than us.
But our defence was awesome and forced
them into errors to create opportunities.
People say we should just keep the ball all
the time, but you can’t.
If the opposition
sends in one tackler and we need three
cleaners in a ruck, then after a few phases
there is a mismatch of numbers and you
have to kick.
what the f.cuk¿¿¿¿
19 Nov 2012, 14:12 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-149: Imagine Jaco Reinach, Ray Mordt or Carel not making a Bok team because of “tactical kicking”.
19 Nov 2012, 14:12 pm
I’m not sure what the reason is. Perhaps it’s fatigue but we cannot put together 2 halves. (like I can’t put together 2 x 9 holes). After the 1st half I thought we would blow the Scots away. Against Ireland I thought we were going to take a beating in the 2nd half. Perhaps Keo is right & it’s the fear factor Meyer instills that is killing them. HM is going to have to raise the bar against England because, given the 2nd half performance, we are sliding backwards. Why oh why did he not give Schalk Britz a run when we so needed something to spark a comeback while a bunch of average Scots were making us look pathetic.
19 Nov 2012, 14:12 pm
@mikeybrass-154: Meyer’s computer says NO.
19 Nov 2012, 14:13 pm
@Transformation-153: Oh dear god is all I’ll say.
19 Nov 2012, 14:14 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-156: *chokes* Good one!
19 Nov 2012, 14:14 pm
CJ was terrible on saturday and shouldn’t go near a Bok jersey.
Pat is fine at TH, as Kaman says the Lions scrum was solid this year.
Gurthro at LH is ok. Not amazing, I’d still have Heinke.
Gurthro is often preferred for his in field play, but on Saturday he made 6 tackles and missed 3. Pathetic. You’d think he was a Sharks player with all those missed tackles…….
19 Nov 2012, 14:15 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-149:
so,your basic understanding of flyhalf requirement is bizzarre?
is Carter akicking or running flyahlf….because he kicks more than our flyhalfs do?
19 Nov 2012, 14:16 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-139:
“is it beyond the realm of possibility that Lambie may not be a test calibre flyhalf?”
Of course that is a possibility. At this stage however you can’t say it with absolute certainty because it is clear that he is playing to a specific game plan that really does not suit his natural style.
“same old same old…blame the coach.”
There are another three more years ahead of that. He should phone PdV and ask for some tips on how to handle it.
Credit will be given where it is due. If he deserves praise, I for one, will give it to him. Unlike some people in the past who were never willing to give the former coach any credit for any success that the Boks had under him.
19 Nov 2012, 14:18 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-151:
The truth will set his people free.
19 Nov 2012, 14:18 pm
@Transformation-153:
“There is no set game plan
where players are told to go out and kick
everything. You want them to read the
situation.”
…what more needs to be said?
19 Nov 2012, 14:18 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-160: The ABs tactical kicking differs from the Meyer philosophy and their kicking isn’t the end all and be all. Neither does their play involve *pop it to another bloody forward*.
19 Nov 2012, 14:19 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-163: The computer says YES.
19 Nov 2012, 14:20 pm
If one looks at Meyer’s history with the bulls, where the bulls in super rugby held the wooden spoon year after year, then meyer left, he learnt from his mistakes, and reverted to a low risk game plan, sure now the bulls score more tries and are more expansive but Meyer will never take that risk with the boks. Meyer’s strict view is playing “rugby” in the right areas, going from set piece to set piece, using an enormous kicking game, slowing the game right down to ensure he can get maximum value from his big pack. Lambie, JDJ, Janjties, Taute, JPP, and Goosen (he’s also too fragile) don’t suit the bok game. Meyer’s low risk strategy is specifically earmarked for the world cup, he wants the whole ingrained in this strategy for four years, and hopefully lift the cup. The boredom continues.
19 Nov 2012, 14:21 pm
@Nikita-143: True.At least lions fans have accepted their role as clowns of Saffa rugby….gracefully.
19 Nov 2012, 14:21 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-160: He might kick more……but it’s not his kicking what made him the best 10 on the planet. It’s his ability to put players outside him into space….his ability to set his backline off from wherever play is taking place on the field.
His ability to distinguish between times one should kick, and times one could try something else……
See?
If Carter was a Steyn type flyhalf, with his only trick a ‘haaaaaaaaaaaaaa in the skaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaai’ kick every time he got the ball, he wouldn’t even be playing for Poverty Bay in New Zealand….never mind the AB’s.
19 Nov 2012, 14:22 pm
I also identified CJ’s appearance on the field as the point when the **** hit the fan, but in a way we should thank him. If Jannie had played the whole game the Boks would probably have won at a canter and all the articles on this site today would be about the wonderful progress the Boks are making, full of quotes from the Meyer of Pretoria about what a wonderful coach he is.
That CJ is not a capable Test tighthead is obvious, but Meyer is the real problem.
19 Nov 2012, 14:22 pm
@mikeybrass-164:
yes, their kicking is better than ours.
we have gone from being the best kicking team in 2009 to currently 3-5th in my opinion.
people never complain that you kick to much when it is getting a return for the team. Our kicking is shite hence the fact everyone assumes that we kick too much.
19 Nov 2012, 14:24 pm
Give Jantjes a fair shot….Lambie has been rather less than convincing….
Jantjes deserves a shot at it…..
19 Nov 2012, 14:25 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-168:
for all the stereotype surrounding Morne Steyn, he holds all superrugby records over carter.
Give him frontfoot ball and his team generally always wins.
Just ask Dan the Man.
19 Nov 2012, 14:26 pm
@grant10-171: Steyn will start on Saturday – we all know that.
19 Nov 2012, 14:26 pm
@mikeybrass-141:
19 Nov 2012, 14:27 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-172: Good news for the Bulls – irrelevant for the Boks.
19 Nov 2012, 14:28 pm
Gurthro made a whole 3 meters in running, missed 3 tackles (made 6) and hit 2 rucks. In fact the only person who hit less rucks than Gurthro was Zane, who only hit 1.
Shocking performance actually. Didn’t scrum well either.
19 Nov 2012, 14:29 pm
@Nikita-143: My problem is not with Bulls supporters. Some of my best friends are Bulls supporters. My problem is with supporters who react like emo teenagers. And this includes commentators and rugby scribes.
The very same people who on the one hand will call for calmness and maturity, will throw their own little hissy fits at whatever they feel is lacking with the game.
Everyone has their favourite players, their favourite style, their favourite set moves. But they’re not a coach at international level. Their livelihood doesn’t depend on it. But every single hack, every godawful politician, every bakkie builder with a keo log-on finds it so easy to slip into angry tirades and completely exaggerated future scenarios.
But once you begin to scratch around for their own history of claims and opinions, you find that they flip-flop more often than the average Cope MP. But this is the interwebs. Everything is in the here and now. Who cares what I was upset about last month? Who cares what I swore by last year?
Most idiots here will say anything to appear to be strongly opinionated and informed. But more often than not it’s little more than smoke and mirrors.
19 Nov 2012, 14:30 pm
@stormersboy-176:
blame Meyer, coach told him to run around like a pansie arse all game long.
19 Nov 2012, 14:31 pm
Have to agree with Horings.You can’t put all of Lambie’s failings on HM.I don’t believe Lambie is of international quality at ten.He doesn’t have the bmt to play international rugby at ten. I don’t rate him at ten….and I’ve said it ever since he first appeared on a rugby field.He had his chances,so it’s time to move on from that failed experiment .
19 Nov 2012, 14:31 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-163: there’s no set gameplan?
imagine pdv saying that, you lot would be in a frenzy…
meyer might not have a set gameplan but he reveals his fear-based rugby when he exclaims about the opposition sending in one tackler & us using 3 cleaners and couple of phases later there will be a mismatch hence the need to kick before that transpires…
no regard for linebreaks, no offloads that can shift the point of attack & catch static defences…none….
19 Nov 2012, 14:32 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-172: Different type of kicking and when.
Many here and elsewhere warned that the ’09 strategy would be successful for a limited time and so it has proven to be.
I’ve become disillusioned with Meyer. The first thing he needs to do is bring in a backline coach who has a strong enough personality to challenge him and the likes of Matfield.
19 Nov 2012, 14:32 pm
@Nikita-162: Well I hope the Liesbeek river does what is expected and parts for them as they leave this bastion of Cape anti-Meyer sentiment.
Others might go, but Bakkies…he will never leave
19 Nov 2012, 14:32 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-160:
There’s kicking and then then there is kicking.
Carter’s kicks for the most part is purposeful.
The Boks FH’s just kick the ball away and pray.
@grant10-171:
No Grant. HM will feck him up too.
Let Morne start.
Why do we need a Morne clone if we can have the real deal?
19 Nov 2012, 14:33 pm
@stormersboy-176:
Guthro hasn’t been in the mix for a while and had one bad game.
You don’t become a weak player overnight.
19 Nov 2012, 14:34 pm
@katman-177:
Have a Bells on me!
Well said
19 Nov 2012, 14:35 pm
@katman-177:
ja Mallet is the worst for it but he is seemingly everyones hero now.
No secret why he didn’t get the England job is it?
And unfortunately with an ego like his, the more the emotional applaud his rants the worse he will grandstand next week.
As if he is the only coach around? And most here call Meyer a “my way or the high way coach”?
Funny really.
19 Nov 2012, 14:35 pm
@stormersboy-176:
Agreed he was horrid.
But not as bad as CJ.
19 Nov 2012, 14:37 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-186: Everyone was calling Jake a “my way or the highway” coach right up until he won the WC. Then everyone went and got drunk instead.
19 Nov 2012, 14:38 pm
@gunther-187: g od no.
He is a special kind of horrid.
19 Nov 2012, 14:38 pm
On Carter vs Steyn and kicking, didn’t Freddie show on Saturday against the Argies what a fly half is capable of?
Tactically he kicked well, up and unders could be chased, grubbers were pin point and deep kicks found space and not the man.
Together with good distribution, getting players in space and the odd drop goal for good measure, he personified what a FH could and should do
19 Nov 2012, 14:39 pm
Perspective on this win.
I hear some complaints from kenners around here without much perspective.
From last year we have a number of players unavailable due to retirements/overseas.
Smit
Matfield
Botha
Roussow
FDP
Fourie
We are also missing some players through injury.
Beast
Bismarc
Coenie
Bekker
Heinrich
Schalk
Juan
Spies
Goosen
Steyn
Habana
We are playing a number of young/inexperienced players
Young
Etzebeth
Coetzee
Lambie
Inexperienced
Strauss
Juandre
Vermeulen
Not to mention Steyns dramatic loss of form which I have no doubt impacted a few earlier results.
We won ugly against the irish, whose b team have just given Fiji a 53-0 hiding. We also bullied a very physical and pretty experienced Scottish side who have beaten Aus and Arg (twice) away this year. Both teams would have been desperate for world cup ranking points.
Some criticism is fair, we need to add balance by attacking with our backline more, our set piece could be more solid and it would be nice to play with more tempo and variety.
However, the fundamentals for building a great team are there. The pack is performing very nicely. The defense is looking good and we are winning the territory battle more often than not. With what’s available, Heyneke has done more right than wrong.
I have selection gripes like any other fan, Ludik should be on tour for example, but if you asked yourself what a successful building process would look like, this wouldn’t be far off.
I hear a lot of comparisons with the AB’s about the standards we should look to emulate. But they built as well, and didn’t destroy teams in every game during the process. If memory serves, Carters first game at 10 was against wales in 2003. They won by a point 26-25 with S Jones missing a late penalty.
They came last in 2004 Tri nations. Did they drop DC and start hating all their players and coach? No.
What the AB’s have done very well is maintain consistency in experience or ‘builtness’ by rotating and managing players. THIS is what we need to do when the core of the team is there.
Even with that in mind, just this year they needed a last minute drop goal from DC to win by two against the irish at home.
The kiwis focus just as much as us on the fundamentals of the game, the forward battle, the set piece and territory. They kick a lot, often more than us.
But now they have built a team, they also put it all together on the day sometimes, like giving Ireland 60-0.
Sometimes you have to win ugly and show character and that’s not a bad thing. I will say this now, If this team keeps doing the right things up front and our backs click, we are going to give someone a hiding.
Lambies performance in the Scotland game was very good. Exactly what you would expect at this stage of his career at flyhalf.
We should all back him and the team, I’m going to.
19 Nov 2012, 14:39 pm
@stormersboy-176:
Gurthro was absolutely pathetic. Piss-poor performance by him.
Really don’t like this selection of overseas based players when we have others playing in SA who can also do the job.
19 Nov 2012, 14:39 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-160: you are dom if you think carter’s kicking & morne’s kicking equate to the same thing PLUS carter varies his game considerably while morne is staid & unimaginative & doesnt know what a linebreak is!!!
19 Nov 2012, 14:39 pm
@grant10-171:
Why?
So he can stand deep and kick everything away because he is also trying to please the coach?
Its not going to matter one iota who plays at 10 if that is the way they are instructed to play.
Ask yourself why Lambie playes one way under Plum and completely differently under HM?
The case will be exactly the same if Jaintjies.
It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy for HM because eventually he will re select M Steyn under the disguise of ‘the other FH options are not good enough to execute my game plan’
19 Nov 2012, 14:39 pm
@mikeybrass-181:
what crapola. As if the coach tells his kickers to kick shite.
every coach says the kick is only as good as the chase meaning it must be contestable. We used to do it well, now we do it kak. Carter, Dagg and Jane now do it really well.
19 Nov 2012, 14:39 pm
@Jeraldjay-184: So he’s been a weak player for a while then???
Actually when it comes to Gurthro we have a lot of history, and when you look at it he has gone through periods of good and bad form, with those period lasting months, even seasons.
He is obviously have a bad season.
19 Nov 2012, 14:39 pm
@stormersboy-176: His “no arms” attempted tackles, when Scottish players bounced off his boep, were something to behold. I actually thought there were more than three of them!
19 Nov 2012, 14:40 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-178: sensitive much?
I wasn’t blaming anyone but Gurthro,
19 Nov 2012, 14:41 pm
@kaksioek-197: Yes that annoyed me in particular.
19 Nov 2012, 14:43 pm
@katman-177:
It takes one idiot to recognise another one. I wouldn’t like to make that call.
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