Meyer rejects Blacks comparison
19 Nov 2012
RYAN VREDE, in London, reports that Heyneke Meyer says comparisons between the Springboks and All Blacks are ill-formed and unfair, explaining the world champions are far advanced in their development.
The Springboks’ victory over Scotland somewhat polarised opinion. Some lauded an almighty defence performance that restrict their hosts to just one try despite their comprehensive dominance of territory and possession in the second half. Other lamented another match in which the Springboks looked impotent, imprecise and unimaginative in what Meyer calls the ‘goal zone’ (between opposition tryline and 22m).
For most of the latter group, the All Blacks’ 51-22 victory over the Scots six days earlier was used as the benchmark for the Springboks, and their inability to meet those expectations then fueled their frustration.
Meyer is acutely aware of the criticism and comparison and has generally tried to be diplomatic in explaining the mitigating factors for their struggles. However, speaking in London ahead of the final Test of an unbeaten year-end tour against England, Meyer’s own frustrations were obvious.
‘Comparisons are always fun to do. Let’s do another one,’ he began. ‘They’ve played Australia, who are one of the better defensive sides in the world and scored three times. We scored five in one match against Australia at Loftus and one in the other [in Perth], so we’ve got six against their three in a game less. Suddenly the picture looks different.
‘They have the luxury of playing a different side if they choose because they’ve developed the depth. There’s more than 19 players either injured, unavailable or retired from the World Cup Springboks. They use their whole system to ensure the side peaks at the rights times. They are far more experienced – with Richie McCaw there as 100 plus games as an assistant and Steven Hansen 100 games an assistant. So you have to compare apples with apples.’
Meyer, however, tempered that stern rebuttal by acknowledging the Blacks’ killer instinct when presented with scoring opportunities, which is a glaring deficiency in the Springboks’ game.
‘Where they are definitely ahead is that they are far more clinical than us. Whenever they get a chance to score a try they do. Scotland were in the game against them, then they made two errors and the game was different. We were 16-12 up at half time of the Soccer City Test and a mistake from the kick-off and they were away.’
The Springboks’ forwards were awe-inspiring at the gainline on attack in the first half of the Murrayfield Test, as they were in the second against Ireland. Still there is a large degree of predictability about the attack and an apparent lack of spacial awareness of intelligence in contact, which is a hallmark of the Blacks. The New Zealanders carry the ball powerfully, but also possess the presence of mind to do so in a manner that allows them to free their hands often, after which they have the option of picking off support runners, who are never in short supply.
This is the legitimate criticism of the Springboks’ attack, not that they appear to kick away possession (often their opponents, including the Blacks, have kicked more). It is this refinement that is required and that is entirely a coaching issue.
169 Comments
19 Nov 2012, 14:47 pm
sheesh…
excuses excuses heyneke…
if you are ever going to aspire to be the best you need to ALWAYS compare yourself to the best…
how’s them apples…?
19 Nov 2012, 14:50 pm
Let us not forget these Scots won against Aus in Aus. If you win away from home you take it. If we play at home against the Scots we can demand a bigger margin.
19 Nov 2012, 14:52 pm
Hahaha.When HM should not open his mouth….ever.What a dumb farking rockspider.
19 Nov 2012, 14:53 pm
Let’s compare
We have 15 players and 8 reserves
They have 15 players and 8 reserves.
Both play with an oval shaped ball on the same size field against the same opposition.
Not much in it except game plan, coaching staff and class of players
19 Nov 2012, 14:54 pm
@wnbb-3: Cecil. Do not let your hate towards Afrikaners reflect in your comments. Give reasons when you make statements.
19 Nov 2012, 14:57 pm
@nortierd-4: Experience vs no experience? Best Captain ever vs no captain? Best flyhalf ever vs a new flyhalf?
The All Black team is at a different stage of their cycle.
19 Nov 2012, 14:58 pm
Mediocre (repeat 1000 times) how dare our national coach talk of NZ rugby like he is a labradorelaying on his back paws in air and tail wagging
First – Get a decent fuckingbackline coach
Second – Stop the selection shockers
Third – Drop the walki end let the player think on their feet
You brutalfucking dictator
19 Nov 2012, 14:59 pm
@Horings-2: And we won by ten points. The Scots never got close. Score at one stage was 21-3 and then CJ started giving away penalties.
19 Nov 2012, 14:59 pm
You don’t need me to explain it to you pietie.You only need to read the article.
19 Nov 2012, 15:00 pm
@Horings-6:
Good point, yet we had 3 teams in the top 6 of S15 vs 2 of NZ.
We had to be doing something right?
Why then do we lack direction as Boks?
19 Nov 2012, 15:03 pm
@Rockn Rolla-7:
Agree. Simple as that.
19 Nov 2012, 15:05 pm
@Horings-6:
And the last time I can recall the AB’s being on the wrong end of the cycle was in 1998 -1999.
World Cup titles notwithstanding, they ALWAYS do well, so should we.
19 Nov 2012, 15:10 pm
Ag nee man Heineke. Rather maar keep quiet.
19 Nov 2012, 15:11 pm
@nortierd-12: They did lose all 4 their Tri Nations games in 1998 and they had a super rugby champion team that year.
We all know the All Blacks are more organised from top to schoolboy rugby. All with the same objective. We are all working in different directions.
19 Nov 2012, 15:14 pm
@rossoneri-13:
Indeed.
You’d think he would have learned after listening to Divvie shoot his mouth off for 4 years.
19 Nov 2012, 15:15 pm
@Horings-2:
jaaaaa boet…
let’s not compare ourselves to the number one rugby nation…
let’s rather compare ourselves to the number 10 rugby nation…
and do we wonder, with this embracing of mediocrity with open arms, why will never consistently hold the number 1 rank…!??
if we would rather compare ourselves with number 10… we’ll be happy with being number 9…
if we compare ourselves with number 1 we will be unhappy with being number 2 (literally and figuratively) and will therefore strive to be number 1…
no…?
19 Nov 2012, 15:16 pm
@wnbb-3:
uncalled for…
really…
19 Nov 2012, 15:17 pm
@Horings-14:
Agreed, but yet we as a country seems most intent on harping on about our schoolboy structures being the best, varsity players being the best, us having the most depth etc.
If it were so, it’s time we put our money where our mouth is.
Honesty is when we admit we have to many players getting paid, yet don’t qualify as professionals, we don’t have the biggest and strongest forwards who could dominate everyone at will and we have a lot to work on.
19 Nov 2012, 15:18 pm
@ufo-17:
Leave Piglet alone to wallow in the filth.
19 Nov 2012, 15:20 pm
What exactly did he say that was incorrect in this interview?
19 Nov 2012, 15:22 pm
In another post, a lot of people are having a go at Lambie. It was the same after the Ireland game. I have to ask why? He hardly got the ball. I can remember 5 occasions that Lambie got the ball against the Scots. How is he supposed to make a mark on the game if he doesn’t get the ball?
Alberts received more ball from Ruan than Lambie did.
19 Nov 2012, 15:22 pm
Horings you are trying to sugercoat the fact that we are poor,by saying they beat the aussies,that they are in a different cycle..they fielded a team with no permanent combinations and permanent starters and they hammered the scots!stop it please
19 Nov 2012, 15:22 pm
@Tacitus-20: Leave them be. Most people here don’t even remember why they’re angry. Or let me correct that, most never knew to start with, except to know that they were supposed to be angry.
19 Nov 2012, 15:23 pm
@gunther-15: He is clinging to that victory at Loftus for all he is worth, not realizing that since then, it has been downhill.
19 Nov 2012, 15:23 pm
@Jatman-22: Oi, do something about that name. It’s way too close to mine for comfort.
19 Nov 2012, 15:23 pm
@Tacitus-20: At this stage the “kenners” won’t be satisfied with anything he says.
19 Nov 2012, 15:25 pm
@gunther-19:
yeah…
he gives credence to your words…
19 Nov 2012, 15:27 pm
@Jatman-22: Maybe Meyer should have gone for the heavy-weight boxer style and tell us that the ABs are k@k and the Boks will beat them any day?
19 Nov 2012, 15:29 pm
@ufo-17: are you unhappy with the term rockspider or with ‘heyneke should not open his mouth’ ?If it’s rockspider than I am only using a word coined by English speakers for Afrikaners.Most of them are comfortable with it.
19 Nov 2012, 15:36 pm
In other news:
ARU opens door for Cooper to walk
November 19, 2012
QUADE COOPER’S Australian rugby career appears to be over after the ARU effectively forced the star five-eighth out of the game by offering him an incentive-based contract usually reserved for rookies.
Cooper, who was hit with a record $40,000 fine for criticising the state of the game and the mood in the Wallabies camp, had a contract offer from the ARU pulled and received a revised deal from ARU chairman Michael Hawker on November 8 – a week after his code of conduct hearing.
If he was to accept the deal, Cooper would be regarded as below the top 30 players in Australia – an insult to the 24-year-old voted the country’s Super Rugby player of the year in 2011 and runner-up as the most popular player among fans at this year’s ARU awards.
While he had agreed to a three-year deal with the Queensland Reds, that was subject to Cooper finalising a new ARU contract.
However, he feels the decision to offer him an incentive deal is further punishment for his outspoken comments on Twitter and during an appearance on Fox Sports, and is now considering other options.
After indicating his interest in playing in the NRL on numerous occasions in recent years, a switch of codes is now a real possibility for Cooper if he can find a club with room under the salary cap to accommodate him.
Boxing is another possibility, and there is speculation he could fight on the undercard of close friend Sonny Bill Williams’s proposed bout with Francois Botha in February.
Cooper added fuel to the fire on Monday night by tweeting a photo of himself with Mike Tyson, along with the caption: ”The scariest man on the planet and Iron Mike Tyson”.
Fairfax Media understands Cooper stayed in Sydney on Monday night after spending the weekend in Wollongong, where he played cricket for a side chosen by Wendell Sailor in a charity match featuring several St George Illawarra players.
The Dragons, whose chief executive Peter Doust indicated on Friday they were interested in Israel Folau, are one club with room under the salary cap, and had been on the lookout for a new playmaker following the retirement of former skipper Ben Hornby.
Reds officials on Monday night were maintaining they had been given no notice by Cooper that he intended to break the three-year deal he signed with the QRU in June.
They had been heartened by Cooper’s statements – even after being fined $60,000 ($20,000 was suspended for two years) along with a three-match ban – that he was still committed to playing for the Reds in Super Rugby next year and believed that had not changed.
Cooper also told Fairfax Media on Sunday that he had been doing weights training for the past month to strengthen his injured knee but after details of the ARU’s incentive-based offer leaked in a report on Monday it now seems unlikely the Reds will benefit from his recovery.
Fairfax Media understands Cooper’s contract with the QRU was set to earn him about $400,000 next year. His ARU contract, with incentives and match payments, has the potential to take his total package to $600,000, but only if Cooper plays every Test – at $13,000 a match.
Cooper will also have factored the fine into his grievances, along with the fact that he has gone from the Wallabies’ No.1 player heading into last year’s World Cup to not even being worthy of a guaranteed ARU contract a year later.
Wallabies captain Nathan Sharpe said Cooper’s reported departure would be a loss to Australian rugby.
”Quade’s a very talented player, and it’s like that with all player contracts, I suppose, people have to make their decisions, it’s an individual thing,” Sharpe said. ”I don’t know too much about it but that’s disappointing. Sometimes the chips don’t fall the way everyone wants them to.”
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/australia-rugby/aru-opens-door-for-cooper-to-walk-20121119-29m36.html#ixzz2CfvvqBO7
19 Nov 2012, 15:37 pm
The time has come for us as Soth Africans to realise that we cannot play the New Zealand type rugby, it is just not in our nature or for what ever reason.
We must go back to what we are good at and develop our game from there. People say it’s boring rugby but so what at the end of the day it’s about winning and nobody can beat us that game.
If we ever unearth another Danie Gerber or a Carel Du Plessis, yes then let’s change the game plan but at the moment let’s play forward dominated rugby with a good tactical kicker. i.e. Fourie Du Preez
I also think we should invest in another backline coach. The biggist problem for us is the backline. They just look so predictable and uninspiring at the moment.
19 Nov 2012, 15:37 pm
@Palooka-11:
Too True Mate
19 Nov 2012, 15:38 pm
I mean how dare the bumbling fool fuckwith my national teams back link like this\
Once there was a time when the Bok 9 – 15 was premier in world rugby………dont believe me
Then lets go back to 1998
9. Joost van der Westhuizen,
10. Henry Honiball,
11. Pieter Rossouw,
12. Pieter Muller,
13. André Snyman,
14. Stefan Terblanche,
15. Percy Montgomery
Or how about this one in 2007
9. Fourie DuPreez
10. Butch James
11. Bryan Habana
12. Frans Steyn
13. Jacque Fourie
14. JP Pieterson
15. Percy Montgomery
I mean are those backline structures so hard to replicate, JP Pieterson the world best 14 was not used once in a play/loop/skip pass
WTF………i suppose what else can be expected when your coach looks like a Military Police Commander from the late 80’s
19 Nov 2012, 15:40 pm
Beertjie,he should just admit that he has made mistakes and not make excuses and say things like..its an ugly win but we’ll take it..deja vu every week!Steve Hansen also began with new players and look how good they are..2 new coaches,new players..why not the comparison?
19 Nov 2012, 15:42 pm
@wnbb-29:
that is a seriously weak response…
your comment (and response) is a generalisation and bigoted…
there are more than a few other words coined by english speakers over the centuries… that doesn’t make it acceptable to use them… they are called derogatory for a reason…
horings quite rightly objected to it and i bet just about ever other reasonable person on here objects to it too… no matter what language they speak at home…
don’t you ever tire of turning almost every post into an insult…? your years-long fixation on insulting and brawling has a rainman ring to it… except nowhere near as endearing…
19 Nov 2012, 15:43 pm
@Rockn Rolla-33:
JP Pietersen is nowhere near the world’s best 14.
19 Nov 2012, 15:47 pm
RIP Ian Kirkpatrick….
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Ex-Bok-coach-Kirkpatrick-dies-20121119
19 Nov 2012, 15:51 pm
@iceman-31: I’m afraid it may be the fault of the Stormer centre pairing,they never got going in super rugby and they’re not getting going with the boks,as a Stormer supporter it’s deja vu all over again.
19 Nov 2012, 15:52 pm
@Rockn Rolla-33:
On behalf of the military police commanders of the 80′s I must object to the slander
19 Nov 2012, 15:53 pm
@Jatman-34: Yeah right. and that would have carried your approval?
19 Nov 2012, 15:55 pm
Heyneke must stop looking for excuses. We have some of the best players in world rugby to our disposal, but are currently being over coached. Lambie’s first instict on Saturday was to kick the ball away. A few times we had overlaps and Lambie decides to kick for the wing or an up and under.
19 Nov 2012, 15:57 pm
keep your emotions in check heyneke…no need for sarcasm
where is that psychology degree now, it is needed tl tl tl
19 Nov 2012, 15:59 pm
@Kaizan-36:
OK so who is then?????????
19 Nov 2012, 16:09 pm
“They’ve played Australia, who are one of the better defensive sides in the world and scored three times. We scored five in one match against Australia at Loftus and one in the other [in Perth], so we’ve got six against their three in a game less. Suddenly the picture looks different.”
There is your proof that the Boks are a more attacking side than the All Blacks.
19 Nov 2012, 16:12 pm
Here is my selected All Stars Team
15. Corey Jane
14. JPP
13 Adam Asley Cooper
12 SBW
11 Horacio Agulla
10 Dan Carter
9 Aaron Smith
8 Sergio Parisse
7 Flo
6 Juan Martin Fernandez Lobb
5 Samuel Whitelock
4 Eben Etzebeth
3 Nicolas Mas
2 Andrew Hore
1 Wyatt Crockett
NZ 7
FR 1
SA 3
AU 1
AR 2
IT 1
19 Nov 2012, 16:13 pm
@rockn rolla: look no further than cory jane
19 Nov 2012, 16:13 pm
Bissmark For Hore tho
19 Nov 2012, 16:14 pm
Cory jane best 14
19 Nov 2012, 16:17 pm
@supersader-48:
I always though he was a classic 15, then again so is Dagg…….
JP vs Jane…….on his day JP will have his #
19 Nov 2012, 16:20 pm
@Rockn Rolla-43:
Not JP Pietersen. 14 tries in 47 caps is not the record of the world’s best winger.
There are loads of great wings out there (many of whom can play on the left or the right).
George North, Alex Cuthbert, Chris Ashton, Corey Jane, Julian Savea, Hosea Gear, Digby Iaone, James O’Connor, Drew Mitchell, Gio Aplon, Alesana Tuilagi, David Lemi, Vincent Clerc and many more… I haven’t even mentioned the more unknown Fijian and Tongan Wingers who would look like world beaters if they played for a better team.
JP is good but with only 14 tries in his entire career of nearly 50 caps, it’s a bit bold to say he is the best in the world.
19 Nov 2012, 16:20 pm
Jane is consistent jp has his moments
19 Nov 2012, 16:21 pm
Jane anyday all day
19 Nov 2012, 16:24 pm
I think I truly reached a point where nothing the average fans says surprises me anymore.
19 Nov 2012, 16:24 pm
@ufo-35: No need to get all precious now,UFO .I have never seen you getting all excited at bigoted words or sayings directed at black and coloured people by idiots like Sl,Katman etc etc.Don’t be a hypocrite now old boy.
19 Nov 2012, 16:26 pm
@ufo-35:
I suppose I am an “Afrikaner”, but I don’t mind the term “rokspaaider” at all. Especially when it is used on someone so deserving as HM.
Are you a soutpiel?
19 Nov 2012, 16:28 pm
wnbb is gewoond aan mes steek rugby en scores van 70 – 39 ens ens … die is internasionale toetsrugby ou maat … nie Ben Plaatjies XV vs Neville Meintjies Old Boys nie
19 Nov 2012, 16:29 pm
@PissAnt-53: I suggest you take a break. Your sense of superiority is a bit tiresome.
19 Nov 2012, 16:29 pm
As expected, HM is totally missing the point, which is that his style of rugby is boring, uninspiring and will NOT win over the better teams, like NZ.
19 Nov 2012, 16:31 pm
@suffer_guy-56:
Now, that’s much more bigoted than calling someone a rockspider.
19 Nov 2012, 16:32 pm
Let us not forget facts here wherever the Boks are on whatever cycle… And let us not forget Meyer and his sentiment at the beginning of his tenure of wanting to “win every game”…
The facts are:
Wins: 6
Losses: 3
Draws: 2
This is a 55% win ratio, and before the acolytes start swinging from the chandoliers and spouting forth about “coulda woulda”, let us also not forget that the 2 draws were very very lucky not to be losses… Also the one win against England was squeakybum time, not to mention Ireland was 2 measly points away from a loss too…
So the results “coulda woulda” been
Wins 5
Losses 6
This makes Straeuli look farken genius working with half the talent Meyer has at his disposal…
Boks are fcked, I tell you and its going to get worse before it gets better because Meyer reckons he has all the answers…
19 Nov 2012, 16:32 pm
@suffer_guy-56: hahahahahahahaha !Funny guy.
19 Nov 2012, 16:33 pm
@Heavens Game-60: This isnt even including a possible loss to England next week, especially if the Boks continue playing the same way they have been playing Irish and Scots B Teams…
19 Nov 2012, 16:35 pm
@Heavens Game-60:
To me it looks more like a menstrual cycle.
19 Nov 2012, 16:36 pm
@PissAnt-53: 11 years behind Mallett
19 Nov 2012, 16:37 pm
Heavens Game.. you have to look at what players the coach has at his disposal …
Malllet did nothing with Italy …
even PDV looked half decent because het had the worlds best in some positions…
players PDV had, which Heyneke doesn’t :
Matfield
Fourie Dup
Bakkies
S Burger
Juan Smith
Bissie (injured)
A on form Morne Steyn
F Steyn
J Fourie
massive difference … even grant10 will win a few games if he had to coach a team with some of those players
19 Nov 2012, 16:39 pm
@kaksioek-57:
Really.
I don’t have much time to post anymore and enjoy reading thoughts from supporters. Usually I look forward to intelligent comments from fellow supporters willing to engage in a rugby debate. Which quite often happens mind you.
How about you offer one intelligent one to anything Meyer says in this article?
19 Nov 2012, 16:40 pm
take out Carter and NZ are half the team (rwc final vs france)
now take out McCaw …. whole different team!
19 Nov 2012, 16:41 pm
When Meyer was selected you said that he had all the answers.Now that it had gone horribly wrong for your Messiah you want us to believe that you are now this great rugby ‘kenner’.Skop is right.You change your views more than Gunther would change his knickers in a calendar year.
19 Nov 2012, 16:44 pm
@suffer_guy-65:
Having players like FSteyn and JFourie doesn’t mean ***** if the ball never get to them or if they are instructed to run into the first opponent.
19 Nov 2012, 16:45 pm
@suffer_guy-65: f’ng gatkruip apologist.. now its look who we missing.. the point is look what a goddamn useless dumb arsewipe coach you got..
@Heavens Game-60:
look who’s singing my kinda song all of a sardine.. what took you so f’ng long to open up your hail hallelujah blue eyed wannabe eyesight and check the reality staring you down.. when it was plain to see from first dawn of light when the supremacist called his first squad.. now 5 months later you wanna act like the seer who can see the wood for the trees.
19 Nov 2012, 16:45 pm
@wnbb-54:
so you admit to being a bigot then…? well done… 11 steps to go…
oh but i have… you’re just so busy writing your next insult in your running battles on keo that you don’t pay attention to whatever anyone else is writing…
@TooMuchRugby-55:
you “suppose” you are an afrikaner…?
okay…
19 Nov 2012, 16:46 pm
TooMuchRugby did the bok backline run the ball under pdv?
19 Nov 2012, 16:49 pm
@PissAnt-66: OK, with regards to this comment:
‘Where they are definitely ahead is that they are far more clinical than us. Whenever they get a chance to score a try they do. Scotland were in the game against them, then they made two errors and the game was different. We were 16-12 up at half time of the Soccer City Test and a mistake from the kick-off and they were away.’
I put it to you that the Boks would have a far better chance of being “clinical” if Meyer flipped a mental switch and realised that bad ball should go to the forwards and good ball should go to the backs, because his policy seems to be the complete opposite.
In the game against Scotland the Scots knew full well what the Boks would do with the ball in their 22, and took the decision to stand off and not commit to the maul. It worked and they were awarded a penalty.
Later in the game the scenario repeated itself and the Boks did exactly the same thing, with the Scots again standing off. This time the referee waved play on and the Boks scored. There was no real difference between the two scenarios, despite Naas Botha’s “analysis” in the SS studio.
It was pure chance that the referee took a completely different view of the same situation – one of those two refereeing decisions were wrong.
But the issue here is that Meyer’s Boks persisted with the exact same tactic – because that is what they have been coached to do.
This is why the Boks are not clinical – because Meyer is heavily focused on forward play, and sees backs as a necessary evil.
19 Nov 2012, 16:52 pm
Farkit….I cant actually recall such a depressing season actually…..first my Stormers defend like there is no tomorrow and hardly throw a punch in return…..then the Boks replicate the process…
Thank heavens for WP and the Vodacom Cup team….much much much more pleasant to watch….
19 Nov 2012, 16:53 pm
PA…
ignore kaksioek…
and keep your contributions coming…
19 Nov 2012, 16:53 pm
“They have the luxury of playing a different side if they choose because they’ve developed the depth.”
The fact is that they play a beautiful, exiting brand of rugby no matter what side they choose. I don’t think that has something to do with their depth. It has more to do with their approach to the game.
On the other hand, even if the 19 “injured, unavailable or retired” players WERE available and thus giving us the depth that you are craving, we would’ve still played this kak brand of rugby.
Why are we even talking about retired players as if they somehow would’ve made a difference? I’ve never heard once that the AB coach/supporters bemoan the fact that a guy like Mils Muliaina is not available for them anymore.
19 Nov 2012, 16:54 pm
@kaksioek-57: there are a whole lot of precious superiority complexes pandering around these web sites.. if you check them out some really do think they got superiority oozing through their self endowed ‘intelligence’
that’s how it goes with the human race.. you will always get those with superior ‘class’ breeding thinking they got dished up superior type intelligence along with their superior type inherited attitudes and genetics and skin color and you name it.. plenty superiority type class doing the rounds around here.
19 Nov 2012, 16:54 pm
best rugby was played by the Sharks in last few matches of their campaign….brilliant stuff that gave me hope for SA Rugby….and then along came HM and his okes….
farkit man
19 Nov 2012, 16:55 pm
@ufo-71:
Well, i suppose you are indeed a soutpiel. If so, please don’t try and stand up for people who don’t need your help.
19 Nov 2012, 16:56 pm
@ufo-71: no.some of my best mates are Afrikaners.
19 Nov 2012, 16:57 pm
@kaksioek-73:
Well when you have the ball in the strike zone every ball is a good ball, what is needed is to create pace on the ball which will create space. This is done 99% of the time of getting behind any defence and a quick recycle which can be done by a forward, and is probably the best guy to do so.
Meyer does not decide what pass goes where, the players do and there is one goal in mind, getting behind the opposition defence.
As for the line out, missed Naas’ analysis. For me the ref was wrong in the first call, it was the same maul, if the Scots decide to stand off after contact was made, that’s their problem. He got the call right the second time around as you said, in exactly the same scenario.
The difference between the Boks and NZ in their ruck play, is NZ is much more clinical cleaning defenders and ensuring quick ball, Boks are way too laboured here with a confusion in specific role definition for players – in other words, the one side (AB’s) seems to be the better drilled side in this department.
19 Nov 2012, 16:57 pm
@skopdiekan-77: Ja, call me crazy but I think the aim of this forum is for people to post their views.
19 Nov 2012, 16:58 pm
@grant10-74: The question is whether the Stormers will play the same rugby next year?
19 Nov 2012, 16:59 pm
@suffer_guy-72: If they only ran to the toilet, it woulf have been more than what is currently happening
19 Nov 2012, 17:00 pm
@wnbb-29: No friend I am not.Nor is my wife and her family.
19 Nov 2012, 17:01 pm
@PissAnt-81: The difference between the ABs and the Boks is that when the ABs get a quick recycle in the opposition’s 22 the ball will in all likelihood go to the backs.
For the Boks, quickly recycled ball – “good” ball – goes to another forward who smashes it up, frequently gaining no more ground and resulting in a slow recycle – bad ball. This is repeated until we score – which isn’t very often – or we lose possession or are penalized – which is very often.
19 Nov 2012, 17:03 pm
@TooMuchRugby-84:
19 Nov 2012, 17:03 pm
@kaksioek-82: looks like there’s a petition doing the rounds here for only bone fide ‘class’ high society opinionated self righteousness to be given the green light among the honorary hob nob snob intelligentsia of keo
I far rather keep vloeking my way through life than watch these dumb bloody morons thinking they represent the echelons of the rugby intelligent society in this arse end of creation.
19 Nov 2012, 17:03 pm
@kaksioek-86: Occasionally, the scrumhalf will see the inevitable coming and desperately pass slowly recycled ball to a back who is faced by a wall of well-prepared defenders. None of this encourages “clinical” finishing, but then what would you expect from a team whose forwards coach doubles as the attack coach?
19 Nov 2012, 17:05 pm
The 42-6 against England was some of the best rugby the Boks played under PdV.Will we see something similar this Saturday ??I don’t think so as Heyneke lacks a bit in the grey matter department.
19 Nov 2012, 17:05 pm
@skopdiekan-70: Yes… Its called rationalism what I do…
Unlike others, including you:
1. I take a position, not sit on the fence
2. I critically examine my position in light of evidence
3. Evidence supports my initial position, I keep it
4. Evidence to the contrary, I change my position
Once my position has changed, rarely do I change it again… Unlike others, including you and your mate Piglet, where you change your mind according to:
a. The fullness of the moon
b. Your current hormonal balance or blood pressure
c. Whatever Hari Rama last said…
d. How white your latest fixation may be…
I have the right to change my mind or position and any rational change is made by me and my observation, not some barely rugby literate pseudokenners who have never thrown a ball in anger in their goddamn lives outside the u16c team at Springs Primary School…
Dumbfuck hypocrite
19 Nov 2012, 17:05 pm
@kaksioek-86:
Too true.
19 Nov 2012, 17:05 pm
@PissAnt-81:
Forward battering rams is not the best way to get “behind” the opponents. Running (or kicking) into space is. They fail to do either.
Using Alberts as a strike runner does have it merits, but only up to a point.
W.r.t. the line-out maul you are correct, the ref got it wrong the first time because one of the Scots actually joined before the other stood off, but the point is that the ref penalised the Boks, but they still decided to do it again.
19 Nov 2012, 17:05 pm
@kaksioek-86:
I cannot think when last we had front foot ball inside opposition 22′s. It’s usually laboured and static and our problem comes in trying to re-generate momentum.
Boks have a **** lot to improve on. But if I am not mistaken the most consistent combination selected in 2012 that did not suffer from injury is our lock combination? And these two lads are in their debut season.
Craig Ray made a good point this morning. The Boks are still winning playing really bad rugby. The more combinations settle and the more experience they gain at this level the better they will get.
19 Nov 2012, 17:07 pm
@kaksioek-86: 100%. Borg rugby all the way… Honed at the Bulls, copied by the Stormers and continued by the Boks…
Skop en jag supremacy….
19 Nov 2012, 17:07 pm
@ryecatcher-85: Good evening to you,Rye.What seems to be the problem?
19 Nov 2012, 17:07 pm
@wnbb-83: Hopefully with Jantjes there things will change….I spent a small fortune on tickets this year and left feeling flat and deflated every time….Stormers need to be more bold ….I think the new acquisitions will assist…and hopefully JDV will spend a lot of time being rotated…that crash ball is killing me man….
19 Nov 2012, 17:08 pm
@Heavens Game-91: correction: made by me and through my observation…
Fark, I am becoming as braindead in posting as the average Keo journo…
19 Nov 2012, 17:08 pm
@TooMuchRugby-93:
Kicking in the strike zone the best option? Cannot agree with that. Also you have 15 defenders in your face because there is no space to defend at the back anymore so running into space there is quite limited.
They did do it again, because they knew they were not at fault. The second time they scored. Do you think that was the wrong decision?
19 Nov 2012, 17:09 pm
@ufo-37: Watched a test at Newlands.Moaner van Heerden,a dirty player of note,pulled one of his usual stunts.Kirkpatrick chased him for about 50m.Moaner running away like a hare.Felt embarassed. Anywayb ref called the chase off..
19 Nov 2012, 17:09 pm
@TooMuchRugby-79:
okay just “suppose” we get this straight…
you’re not offended by someone making racial insults…
but you are offended by someone criticising racial insults…
then you go on to make assumptions about it too…
AND
then go on to proclaim yourself the mouthpiece of all afrikaners…??
well okay then…
i “suppose”…
and here’s a headsup… i will stand up for whatever and whenever i so choose… if you don’t like it go and post on isupposeimarugbyfan.com
@wnbb-80:
good for you…
19 Nov 2012, 17:10 pm
@kaksioek-86: good comment
19 Nov 2012, 17:10 pm
@Heavens Game-91: flip f’ng flop
I called it what it is from first light of his first selection criteria .. it took you and your highly endowed intelligence at least 5 months longer to recognize what some saw from day one….. now you singing exactly same tune some were singing back in March or April.. only difference is you reckon you the first to recognize whats what when its pretty obvious it took you a lot longer to come around to ‘rationality’ than it took some others.
19 Nov 2012, 17:11 pm
I do feel for Meyer, but he is a grown man who took this job with his eyes wide open.
Everybody knows that critisism and comparisons ( whether to teams past or opposition present) is part and parcel to the post.
Personal attacks however should not be allowed and generalizations without knowing the bloke personally is wrong.
In a manner he is living the dream of the majority of rugby supporters, getting well paid, traveling the world and living and breathing rugby, so if the critisism and tough questions are justified, he must suck it up and not get annoyed.
19 Nov 2012, 17:12 pm
Anycase, time is limited. I must be off.
Cheers.
19 Nov 2012, 17:12 pm
@Heavens Game-95: you singing exactly the song I sang in April.. what took you so goddamn long dumb fck superior intelligent specimen of scientifically tabulated ‘evidence’
19 Nov 2012, 17:14 pm
@skopdiekan-103: Lies, damn lies and fantasies…
You were clueless in your first decision…
Like you are clueless now…
As clueless as your “expertise” in backline play…
I actually reckon you probably make Lievremont look sane, Van Graan exciting and Dippy Divvy, heavenforbid… knowledgeable…
Now gooi your rubbish elsewhere, dunce…
19 Nov 2012, 17:14 pm
@ryecatcher-100:
didn’t see that…
conjures up funny images though…
(but surely not in a test…)
19 Nov 2012, 17:15 pm
@PissAnt-94: It is impossible for forwards to play a Test against top-class opposition where they have most of the ball for 80 minutes without getting tired. The ball must be shared with the backs, if only to give the forwards a break.
In the game against Scotland, the **** hit the fan when CJ came on and dropped every scrum and got penalized. This was due to his inability to perform at tighthead, but the point is that this was just the last straw that broke the camel’s back.
The reason things deteriorated at such a rapid pace is because the Bok forwards were already close to exhaustion. You cannot run headlong into the opposition for 80 minutes – no one can.
The alternative, under Meyer, is to do it for 40 minutes and then tackle for 40 minutes. The problem with the latter is that it is even more tiring than the former.
This game plan is not sustainable.
New Zealand, France, Argentina, Australia and probably even Wales would have beaten the Boks on Saturday. Luckily for Meyer, we were only up against Scotland.
19 Nov 2012, 17:15 pm
@ufo-75: Hello UFO
19 Nov 2012, 17:16 pm
@PissAnt-105:
cheers bud
19 Nov 2012, 17:20 pm
@ryecatcher-110:
hey rye… how’re yo doing…?
also gotta saddle up the palomino…
another time…
19 Nov 2012, 17:21 pm
@Heavens Game-107: that’s the kind of two face pseudo snake skin shedding Springbok ‘supporter’ you are
Heyneke Meyer was your goddamn hero and messiah you so eagerly were embracing.. you called all those who said the contrary were despicable turncoats and not worthy to be classed as patriots… now you .. thye so called ultimate /patriot’ have turned around 180 degrees to be calling the tune exactly what I and others were saying a whole lot earlier…
and you want to still take credit for your dumb bloody hindsight enriched ‘insight” what a dumb bloody self righteous little fuckup fool are you actually?
Just another self righteous Moron.. that is all…
19 Nov 2012, 17:23 pm
I don’t think blaming the average Springbok supporter is helpful at all. Rugby is one form of entertainment among many, and when it ceases to be entertaining, people will find something else to do.
Saying that Springbok supporters are too critical of the team is like a restaurant owner blaming his patrons for his unpopular establishment.
19 Nov 2012, 17:24 pm
@wnbb-96: Good evening.Did my post lack clarity.If anone said that to my wifes face she would klap him/her
Unnecessarily hurtful.You are better than that.
19 Nov 2012, 17:32 pm
@ufo-108: Test was in early 60,s
19 Nov 2012, 17:32 pm
I humbly apologise to you and your wife,Rye.I will stop using the word coined by your English ancestors.Can I use the word ‘klipkop’ when I refer to HM’s stubbornness??
19 Nov 2012, 17:38 pm
Thanks.Cannot answer 2,nd part of post.It actually takes a lot to apologise
if you mean it.My wife has several folksy sayings.One of them is
“Jy moet altyd die minste wees”.Even if you are right.
Actually,she also often tells me that I don,t know **** from apples
19 Nov 2012, 17:44 pm
@ryecatcher-116:
Are you sure it was Moaner?
He was born in 1951 and stopped playing in 1980, I think. Kirkpatrick played his last game for the Boks in 1961. Moaner would’ve been 10 years old.
Not trying to put you in a spot here.
19 Nov 2012, 18:13 pm
@kaksioek-109:
That might be true, but I am yet to see statistics on first carries by Boks in the strike zone compared to the other top 5 teams.
Also how do you explain the Boks finishing stronger against Ireland because the theory is they will always get tired the longer the game goes on?
19 Nov 2012, 18:13 pm
@ufo-111:
How are you doing bud?
19 Nov 2012, 18:22 pm
@skopdiekan-113:
Do you ever do anything but b ! tch all day !!!!! and no im no bigot either!!!!!!
19 Nov 2012, 18:26 pm
@kaksioek-109:
I really think we are getting it wrong in our tight 5 and that is where we lose momentum. We are simply not producing ball any ball carrier, Pat or ***** himself can do much with and for my money it is because we cannot create pace on the ball after 2 phases.
Mark Andrews made a very good point last week, Eben is used as a ball carrier and we need the lad to hit more rucks and clean irritating ***** off our ball. Jannie might be our best tighthead and he is good in first phases, but he is useless in the tight loose in my view.
Best used to do nicely in this department but he is not having the best season imo and is injured now too.
Our strongmen are simply standing off rucks way to often and the opposition defence is having a field day because of this.
Our tight forwards need to hit rucks – in Duane, Alberts and Flo we have enough big ball carriers.
Adriaan Strauss is about the only guy hitting rucks hard, but this is a team or in my point, tight 5 effort. Our tight 5 is too soft at the moment or not being used correctly.
19 Nov 2012, 18:28 pm
@PissAnt-123:
Best = Beast
19 Nov 2012, 18:42 pm
@PissAnt-123:
As much of a so called forwards guru this Meyer likes to think of himself as.. he has got the tight five as much wrong as he has got the backs..
Etsebeth should not have been made his enforcer.. that was a wrong call and a poor recognition of the players talents.. Andrews is correct, Etsebeth should be playing 5 not 4 and Alberts or Elstadt or Flip should be starting 4
His selection of the front row with CJ ahead of Cilliers was also despicably poor recognition of either character or strength or rugby talent..
And they still reckon this dunce is a forwards genius.
19 Nov 2012, 18:43 pm
@skopdiekan-125:
CJ’s selection is a shocker. There is not a more overrated prop in SA.
19 Nov 2012, 18:45 pm
hey pa…
always good bud…
19 Nov 2012, 18:47 pm
pa…
you got any info on eben’s alleged eye-gouge…
i’m looking for an exact time it’s supposed to have happened so i can see for myself…
19 Nov 2012, 18:47 pm
@ufo-127:
I have a nice long holiday coming up, we must get together for a beer or a nice sundowner wine bud. Will test you early December if you are in Cape Town this holiday.
19 Nov 2012, 18:47 pm
Test…
Now you know I watch too much rugby.
Meant to say TEXT!
19 Nov 2012, 18:49 pm
@PissAnt-129:
i would enjoy that pa…
let me know when and i will be there…
19 Nov 2012, 18:49 pm
Eben cited for possible eye-gouging, will appear before IRB panel tomorrow.
19 Nov 2012, 18:49 pm
19 Nov 2012, 18:54 pm
@ufo-133:
that was for @130
19 Nov 2012, 18:59 pm
I must be in the wrong profession.. nice long holidays from coaching rugby sounds like a nice change.. reckon rugby coaching got far more perks than what I’m doing currently.. pity I missed my true vocation in life…
using a little gut wrench instinct simply comes naturally.. who ever thought that coaching rugby was a science when its far closer to being an art form.. no wonder these dumb saffa rugby coaches don’t know wtf is actually cutting most of the time.
19 Nov 2012, 19:02 pm
@PissAnt-123: And yet the Stats suggest otherwise.
Eben hit the 3rd most rucks (5) after Flo (7) and JDV (6),
He made the 2nd most tackles (14) after Flo (15), except Eben missed ZERO compared to Flo who missed 2.
The criticism of him as a ball carrying forward also doesn’t stack up either. he carried 5 times for 12 meters, Juandre carried 4 times for 8 meters.
Hardly damning in fact the opposite.
These stats are for the Ireland game which is the basis of Andrews’ criticism.
Now I’m not suggesting that he is the finished article. Far from it and Mark Andrews is a player with a lot of intelligence and experience and his comments are his opinion, but I am struggling to find a lot of factual support for what he is saying other than an observational opinion.
19 Nov 2012, 19:08 pm
@stormersboy-136: Observation counts far more than stats
rugby is not a static science its far closer to a fluid art form
Etsebeth would be a far better athletic ball carrier linking No.5 type lock than the No.4 enforcer Meyer and the hyper press are trying to mold him into. Trying to mold players to emulate others like trying to force Etsebeth into a Bakkies or Hougaard into a FdP is just plain dumb and wrong.. Meyer is trying far too much to try and mold his current players into carbon copies of his 2007 class of zombies.
19 Nov 2012, 19:13 pm
@skopdiekan-137: I hear you, and I’m not totally discounting what Andrews says, but the stats from the Ireland game suggest him playing the role of a hard grafting ruck cleaning, tackling machine. The exact opposite of what Andrews is saying he is.
19 Nov 2012, 19:18 pm
@nama1-119: Thanks.Not sure
19 Nov 2012, 20:15 pm
@stormersboy-136:
JDV hit more rucks than Eben?
**** dude, that’s our problem right there.
19 Nov 2012, 20:19 pm
@nama1-119: Definitely Moaner and Kirkpatrick.Will research.Thanks and goodnight.Memory shot to all hell.
19 Nov 2012, 20:20 pm
@PissAnt-140: 1 more.
That says more about the obsession with bashing it up the 12 channel than anything else to me.
As I said, not saying that Eben hasn’t room for improvement, just saying that he is ahead of most of the forwards. And where does it say that a 4 lock must hit rucks all day?
The front rankers must pull their weight, if there is criticism around workrate there is planty of blame to go around, I’m surprised it came Eben’s way is the point I’m making.
19 Nov 2012, 20:24 pm
Eben should play 5, Alberts should play 4
Cilliers should play 3, I guess Strausss will have to stay at 2 though I wouldn’t have made that call, and Heinke should start at 1
and like Mallet says may as well play Alberts at 12 and vermeulen at 13 in Meyers game plan because that is all Meyer is expecting his No. 12 or 13 to do.
19 Nov 2012, 20:39 pm
@skopdiekan-143: Meyer wants Taute at 13 as a kick chaser. He knows the guy will rarely carry the ball so he wants fast strong outside backs to chase down up and unders and have a physical presence at the ensuing contest/tackle/ruck.
Ja i know.
Makes no sense to me either.
19 Nov 2012, 21:10 pm
@kaksioek-109:
I’ve taken interest in your post with regards to Meyers game plan revolving around forwards hitting the ball up endlessly being unsustainable and think you have hit on something that will one day be seen as fact. The Bok forwards do fall away in intensity as the game gets longer because of two probable reasons….fitness and conditioning or the type of game that they are asked to play for eighty minutes, or a combination of both.
19 Nov 2012, 21:16 pm
Bok supporters. what do you think of HM’s statement that the “stike zone” is inside the opposition 22? Reading this thread (which has been entertaining and even somewhat informative for a change!!) it seems like most of you accepted this statement as fact.
I personally think that this is only correct if when talkiing about tries by the forwards, and that it is incorrect when talking about tries scored by backs, and that this is causing a lot of the Bok’s backline attacking problems.
If you watch a lot of AB rugby as I do, you will have noticed that many if not most of AB attacking plays that result in tries, PARTICULARLY FROM SET PIECES, are launched from outside the opposition 22. Many of these plays start from closer to the half way mark than the 22, and a reasonable number start inside the All Black’s half.
The AB’s usually don’t manage to pin opposition sides in their 22 for long periods, and IMHO they are actually quite poor at converting pressure inside the opposition 22 into tries.
I have thought about this quite a lot, and I think the reasons for this are:
- outside the 22, defences tend to be set deeper (because they have more territory to defend, and to defend against kicks), so that once the AB backs get through the first line of defence, they usually have some open space to run into (both the ball carrier and supporting players) before the cover defence is engaged. The AB’s manipulate that space cleverly, and whilst the attack may stall with a cover tackle the opposition is having to retreat back to get onside and is disorganised. At this point, the AB’s are in their element – fast ruck ball or better still offloads create havoc amongst the retreating and/or disorganised opposition defences.
- inside the 22, defences are shallower, and the offside line stops at the goal line. This cramps the AB backs, and makes it a lot harder to get behind the opposition defence (who only have to retreat to the try line to be onside). At this point, forward strength including bashing it up and mauling become the best weapons for try scoring. The AB’s have been poor at these aspects of the game for some years, and whilst there has been some improvement this year, the AB’s are less than 50/50 to score a try from any sort of static ruck 5m out from the opposition try line. Contrast this to the Boks, who would be closer to 75/25 to score in those circumstances.
If the Boks want to start scoring more tries from backline play, they need to start treating the area from the opposition 10m line up to the 22 as the red zone for back line attacking play, with the default position being to keep the ball in hand in those areas. Whereas at the moment, most of the time the boks kick for territory or put up and unders in those areas – terrible waste of attacking ball.
Thoughts, Bok fans??
19 Nov 2012, 21:17 pm
@Te Rangatira-145: Good point TR. What do you think of my analysis above? Related issues, I think.
19 Nov 2012, 21:22 pm
@wnbb-29:
I have quite a few Afrikaner friends that will be very comfortable with you using the word ‘rockspider’ ……………….
…. that’s after they have each given you a pussklap……..
Don’t degenerate your arguments simply because you extremely pissed of with the coach
19 Nov 2012, 21:34 pm
@corporal punishment-146:
Corporal my apologies for an unfortunate outburst at you, will keep it civil in the future. This fascination of the Bok strategists/number crunchers with getting inside the oppositions 22 seems slightly, can’t think of the right word, but will use silly. You have rightly pointed out the the Abs will attack you from basically anywhere, preferably from inside their 10 m to the opposition 22 for all the reasons you pointed out in your post.Once you get inside the oppositions 22, the oppositions defence is harder to crack,unless you can draw them into the rucks and mauls, deliver quick ball, drive over or get it wide where you have an overlap, otherwise 60% of the time the ref will call a penalty either way.
19 Nov 2012, 21:37 pm
What outburst is that tr? I don’t remember it!
19 Nov 2012, 21:49 pm
@corporal punishment-147:
The biggest difference I see in the Bok forwards to the Ab forwards is in the support play. The Ab loosies in particular are more mobile allowing them to get into support positions and with their handling skills are able to make a telling contribution.
19 Nov 2012, 21:54 pm
146:Excellent comment corp punishment. Counter attack is an unknown entity in the Bok setup! France scored a great try last week against Aus and Aus scored a great try from counter attack against Eng on Saturday. Had both those balls been kicked onto Kirchner, he would have kicked the ball away / up and under.
I agree that the “scoring zone” is only (mostly at least) used for the forwards to take the ball up to score. We all know defence is much better organised in the 22m area
19 Nov 2012, 22:00 pm
Agree. Louw would fit in well to the AB style of play, he is a great link player and has excellent ball handling skills. However, the rest are relatively one dimensional and average to poor ball handlers.
Whilst the AB’s were too loose against the Scots, I thought their attacking play took rugby to a new level. The speed of the passing, both forwards and backs, took my breath away. They are playing a new and more effective style of rugby this season, and it has felt like a privilege to watch it.
It is fascinating to watch how other teams have adapted. The Argentinians and the Italians have copied the quick ruck clearances and the quick passing style, and I those teams have been good to watch (and I think they are both on the rise). Other teams have stuck to their knitting (the Boks) or regressed (Australia) and seem to be going backwards as the season progresses.
19 Nov 2012, 22:04 pm
@CharlesM-152: Agree. It’s not just counter attack tho. If the AB’s have a scrum or lineout from their 10m line onwards, they will usually run an attacking play, and this season they have been scoring tries from those sorts of situations. The Boks however would virtually alway kick in those situations.
19 Nov 2012, 22:31 pm
@corporal punishment-154: You are correct but I was immediately thinking of those 2 incidents. It seems as if the Springboks are afraid to make mistakes or conceding penalties or whatever. As a supporter it is very frustrating to say the least !!
The thing is that the defence is more spread out in the middle of the field which will invariably leave gaps in defence – wing falling back to cover for the expexted kick etc. The ABs know how to utilise space and how to do it at pace as well. The one try last week against the Scots, the ball was spread across the field from right to left and even some tight forwards handled the ball very well (they did not even contemplate taking the ball up into contact because the quick men were on the outside where there was space).
Thanks for your objective comments !! Just a pity the decision makers (HM and co.) can’t read it !!
I wish I could carry on but I still need to sort out a couple of things tonight.
Cheers
19 Nov 2012, 22:46 pm
@ryecatcher-141: Maybe Moaner & A.N.Other
19 Nov 2012, 22:54 pm
@corporal punishment-146: Very good post. The nail, you hit it….
19 Nov 2012, 23:15 pm
@CharlesM-155: Charles, yep, good analysis. Why can’t the Boks see what you are seeing??????
Thing is, playing running rugby isn’t that risky from the 10m mark inside your own half onwards. Added to the fact that this is within the penalty kicking zone for the boks, and penalties should go to the attacking team more often than the defending team, it seems a no brainer to me for the Boks to adopt this style of play.
Janties at 10, Lambie at 12 would be a nice combination to exploit this plan, but would require a different SH to Ruan.
Dare I say it, this style of play would suit a big fast ball runner like Spies much more than the current crash and bash style of play.
19 Nov 2012, 23:17 pm
I realise I probably lost all credibility with that last sentence. But Spies is one of the few Bok fowards that makes me nervous – because he is fast, so once he gets behind our defensive line he is extremely dangerous.
19 Nov 2012, 23:18 pm
Jordaan at 13 – he is perfect for a more attacking style of play. Faster than most other midfielders in the Super 15, super creative, just needs time to sort out his defensive alignment.
20 Nov 2012, 00:23 am
HM is a doos!
20 Nov 2012, 00:31 am
In all fairness to the bok players counter attacking rugby is an art … one which is not fostered/taught/natured in the current bok setup .
Every time the Abs have the ball kicked back at them, there are at least 5 players getting back behind the ball with purpose and the key phrase there is ‘BEHIND THE BALL’.
Watching the game on Saturday, most of the times when ruan ,lambie and zane kicked the ball there was no one coming up from behind them with any intention of attacking or looking to get the ball – at worst they are all standing in front of the receiver watching and waiting for him to kick .
The coaches and game plan can take the credit for that woeful style of play not the players
20 Nov 2012, 07:29 am
@corporal punishment-146: Agree 100%
20 Nov 2012, 07:32 am
@corporal punishment-159: I would agree with you if he ever did get behind a defensive line!
20 Nov 2012, 12:30 pm
Lol, I will have to sort through the video archives at chez punishment, I am sure he carved up the ab’s at times in 2008/9. Assuming of course that mrs punishment hasn’t recorded the kardashians over my reassured AB v Bok footage !!
20 Nov 2012, 13:15 pm
@ufo-101:
Don’t be so precious. I was being deliberately obtuse to try and get you to lighten up.
If you don’t like me showing up your judgemental attitude, why don’t you go and post on iamthechampionofthepeoplebutonlywhenifeellike.com
20 Nov 2012, 13:24 pm
@PissAnt-99:
I was not specifically referring to the opponents 22, which I surmise is what you are calling the strike zone. In that case what you say makes some sense.
But that is the inherent problem…..only regarding that area as the strike zone
20 Nov 2012, 13:47 pm
@corporal punishment-146: That must be the comment of the week my friend! Its these inherent ways of thinking about rugby that will prevent HM from being a great coach. Conversion rates/ tries overall are the problem…not conversion rates from within the oppositions 22. That space between halfway and the oppositions 22 is a key area for backline play. Thats where you call practised moves on 1st and subsequent phase ball. We were there a couple of times last Saturday but I saw nothing planned (as in something with a little more craft than bash em up) being executed. I don’t understand what there is to enjoy as players and spectators if these moves are not called…unless of course there were none practised to being with!
20 Nov 2012, 20:36 pm
@smallzm168: it does appear that there are no preactised moves! It appears that HM requires the players to follow a simple and robotic formula based on which part of the field the play is in.
The boks play has gotten worse as the season has worn on, which is probably because the players have gotten beter at HM’s game plan!
Unless you can field a forward pack that is so fearsome it can keep all opposition in a choke hold for 80 mins, I think this style of play will end badly for the boks. Even then, the rules are such that this may not be enough to consistently beat the best sides, because the rules naren to favour a faster paced ball in hand game.
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