Meyer rejects Blacks comparison
19 Nov 2012
RYAN VREDE, in London, reports that Heyneke Meyer says comparisons between the Springboks and All Blacks are ill-formed and unfair, explaining the world champions are far advanced in their development.
The Springboks’ victory over Scotland somewhat polarised opinion. Some lauded an almighty defence performance that restrict their hosts to just one try despite their comprehensive dominance of territory and possession in the second half. Other lamented another match in which the Springboks looked impotent, imprecise and unimaginative in what Meyer calls the ‘goal zone’ (between opposition tryline and 22m).
For most of the latter group, the All Blacks’ 51-22 victory over the Scots six days earlier was used as the benchmark for the Springboks, and their inability to meet those expectations then fueled their frustration.
Meyer is acutely aware of the criticism and comparison and has generally tried to be diplomatic in explaining the mitigating factors for their struggles. However, speaking in London ahead of the final Test of an unbeaten year-end tour against England, Meyer’s own frustrations were obvious.
‘Comparisons are always fun to do. Let’s do another one,’ he began. ‘They’ve played Australia, who are one of the better defensive sides in the world and scored three times. We scored five in one match against Australia at Loftus and one in the other [in Perth], so we’ve got six against their three in a game less. Suddenly the picture looks different.
‘They have the luxury of playing a different side if they choose because they’ve developed the depth. There’s more than 19 players either injured, unavailable or retired from the World Cup Springboks. They use their whole system to ensure the side peaks at the rights times. They are far more experienced – with Richie McCaw there as 100 plus games as an assistant and Steven Hansen 100 games an assistant. So you have to compare apples with apples.’
Meyer, however, tempered that stern rebuttal by acknowledging the Blacks’ killer instinct when presented with scoring opportunities, which is a glaring deficiency in the Springboks’ game.
‘Where they are definitely ahead is that they are far more clinical than us. Whenever they get a chance to score a try they do. Scotland were in the game against them, then they made two errors and the game was different. We were 16-12 up at half time of the Soccer City Test and a mistake from the kick-off and they were away.’
The Springboks’ forwards were awe-inspiring at the gainline on attack in the first half of the Murrayfield Test, as they were in the second against Ireland. Still there is a large degree of predictability about the attack and an apparent lack of spacial awareness of intelligence in contact, which is a hallmark of the Blacks. The New Zealanders carry the ball powerfully, but also possess the presence of mind to do so in a manner that allows them to free their hands often, after which they have the option of picking off support runners, who are never in short supply.
This is the legitimate criticism of the Springboks’ attack, not that they appear to kick away possession (often their opponents, including the Blacks, have kicked more). It is this refinement that is required and that is entirely a coaching issue.
169 Comments
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19 Nov 2012, 14:47 pm
sheesh…
excuses excuses heyneke…
if you are ever going to aspire to be the best you need to ALWAYS compare yourself to the best…
how’s them apples…?
19 Nov 2012, 14:50 pm
Let us not forget these Scots won against Aus in Aus. If you win away from home you take it. If we play at home against the Scots we can demand a bigger margin.
19 Nov 2012, 14:52 pm
Hahaha.When HM should not open his mouth….ever.What a dumb farking rockspider.
19 Nov 2012, 14:53 pm
Let’s compare
We have 15 players and 8 reserves
They have 15 players and 8 reserves.
Both play with an oval shaped ball on the same size field against the same opposition.
Not much in it except game plan, coaching staff and class of players
19 Nov 2012, 14:54 pm
@wnbb-3: Cecil. Do not let your hate towards Afrikaners reflect in your comments. Give reasons when you make statements.
19 Nov 2012, 14:57 pm
@nortierd-4: Experience vs no experience? Best Captain ever vs no captain? Best flyhalf ever vs a new flyhalf?
The All Black team is at a different stage of their cycle.
19 Nov 2012, 14:58 pm
Mediocre (repeat 1000 times) how dare our national coach talk of NZ rugby like he is a labradorelaying on his back paws in air and tail wagging
First – Get a decent fuckingbackline coach
Second – Stop the selection shockers
Third – Drop the walki end let the player think on their feet
You brutalfucking dictator
19 Nov 2012, 14:59 pm
@Horings-2: And we won by ten points. The Scots never got close. Score at one stage was 21-3 and then CJ started giving away penalties.
19 Nov 2012, 14:59 pm
You don’t need me to explain it to you pietie.You only need to read the article.
19 Nov 2012, 15:00 pm
@Horings-6:
Good point, yet we had 3 teams in the top 6 of S15 vs 2 of NZ.
We had to be doing something right?
Why then do we lack direction as Boks?
19 Nov 2012, 15:03 pm
@Rockn Rolla-7:
Agree. Simple as that.
19 Nov 2012, 15:05 pm
@Horings-6:
And the last time I can recall the AB’s being on the wrong end of the cycle was in 1998 -1999.
World Cup titles notwithstanding, they ALWAYS do well, so should we.
19 Nov 2012, 15:10 pm
Ag nee man Heineke. Rather maar keep quiet.
19 Nov 2012, 15:11 pm
@nortierd-12: They did lose all 4 their Tri Nations games in 1998 and they had a super rugby champion team that year.
We all know the All Blacks are more organised from top to schoolboy rugby. All with the same objective. We are all working in different directions.
19 Nov 2012, 15:14 pm
@rossoneri-13:
Indeed.
You’d think he would have learned after listening to Divvie shoot his mouth off for 4 years.
19 Nov 2012, 15:15 pm
@Horings-2:
jaaaaa boet…
let’s not compare ourselves to the number one rugby nation…
let’s rather compare ourselves to the number 10 rugby nation…
and do we wonder, with this embracing of mediocrity with open arms, why will never consistently hold the number 1 rank…!??
if we would rather compare ourselves with number 10… we’ll be happy with being number 9…
if we compare ourselves with number 1 we will be unhappy with being number 2 (literally and figuratively) and will therefore strive to be number 1…
no…?
19 Nov 2012, 15:16 pm
@wnbb-3:
uncalled for…
really…
19 Nov 2012, 15:17 pm
@Horings-14:
Agreed, but yet we as a country seems most intent on harping on about our schoolboy structures being the best, varsity players being the best, us having the most depth etc.
If it were so, it’s time we put our money where our mouth is.
Honesty is when we admit we have to many players getting paid, yet don’t qualify as professionals, we don’t have the biggest and strongest forwards who could dominate everyone at will and we have a lot to work on.
19 Nov 2012, 15:18 pm
@ufo-17:
Leave Piglet alone to wallow in the filth.
19 Nov 2012, 15:20 pm
What exactly did he say that was incorrect in this interview?
19 Nov 2012, 15:22 pm
In another post, a lot of people are having a go at Lambie. It was the same after the Ireland game. I have to ask why? He hardly got the ball. I can remember 5 occasions that Lambie got the ball against the Scots. How is he supposed to make a mark on the game if he doesn’t get the ball?
Alberts received more ball from Ruan than Lambie did.
19 Nov 2012, 15:22 pm
Horings you are trying to sugercoat the fact that we are poor,by saying they beat the aussies,that they are in a different cycle..they fielded a team with no permanent combinations and permanent starters and they hammered the scots!stop it please
19 Nov 2012, 15:22 pm
@Tacitus-20: Leave them be. Most people here don’t even remember why they’re angry. Or let me correct that, most never knew to start with, except to know that they were supposed to be angry.
19 Nov 2012, 15:23 pm
@gunther-15: He is clinging to that victory at Loftus for all he is worth, not realizing that since then, it has been downhill.
19 Nov 2012, 15:23 pm
@Jatman-22: Oi, do something about that name. It’s way too close to mine for comfort.
19 Nov 2012, 15:23 pm
@Tacitus-20: At this stage the “kenners” won’t be satisfied with anything he says.
19 Nov 2012, 15:25 pm
@gunther-19:
yeah…
he gives credence to your words…
19 Nov 2012, 15:27 pm
@Jatman-22: Maybe Meyer should have gone for the heavy-weight boxer style and tell us that the ABs are k@k and the Boks will beat them any day?
19 Nov 2012, 15:29 pm
@ufo-17: are you unhappy with the term rockspider or with ‘heyneke should not open his mouth’ ?If it’s rockspider than I am only using a word coined by English speakers for Afrikaners.Most of them are comfortable with it.
19 Nov 2012, 15:36 pm
In other news:
ARU opens door for Cooper to walk
November 19, 2012
QUADE COOPER’S Australian rugby career appears to be over after the ARU effectively forced the star five-eighth out of the game by offering him an incentive-based contract usually reserved for rookies.
Cooper, who was hit with a record $40,000 fine for criticising the state of the game and the mood in the Wallabies camp, had a contract offer from the ARU pulled and received a revised deal from ARU chairman Michael Hawker on November 8 – a week after his code of conduct hearing.
If he was to accept the deal, Cooper would be regarded as below the top 30 players in Australia – an insult to the 24-year-old voted the country’s Super Rugby player of the year in 2011 and runner-up as the most popular player among fans at this year’s ARU awards.
While he had agreed to a three-year deal with the Queensland Reds, that was subject to Cooper finalising a new ARU contract.
However, he feels the decision to offer him an incentive deal is further punishment for his outspoken comments on Twitter and during an appearance on Fox Sports, and is now considering other options.
After indicating his interest in playing in the NRL on numerous occasions in recent years, a switch of codes is now a real possibility for Cooper if he can find a club with room under the salary cap to accommodate him.
Boxing is another possibility, and there is speculation he could fight on the undercard of close friend Sonny Bill Williams’s proposed bout with Francois Botha in February.
Cooper added fuel to the fire on Monday night by tweeting a photo of himself with Mike Tyson, along with the caption: ”The scariest man on the planet and Iron Mike Tyson”.
Fairfax Media understands Cooper stayed in Sydney on Monday night after spending the weekend in Wollongong, where he played cricket for a side chosen by Wendell Sailor in a charity match featuring several St George Illawarra players.
The Dragons, whose chief executive Peter Doust indicated on Friday they were interested in Israel Folau, are one club with room under the salary cap, and had been on the lookout for a new playmaker following the retirement of former skipper Ben Hornby.
Reds officials on Monday night were maintaining they had been given no notice by Cooper that he intended to break the three-year deal he signed with the QRU in June.
They had been heartened by Cooper’s statements – even after being fined $60,000 ($20,000 was suspended for two years) along with a three-match ban – that he was still committed to playing for the Reds in Super Rugby next year and believed that had not changed.
Cooper also told Fairfax Media on Sunday that he had been doing weights training for the past month to strengthen his injured knee but after details of the ARU’s incentive-based offer leaked in a report on Monday it now seems unlikely the Reds will benefit from his recovery.
Fairfax Media understands Cooper’s contract with the QRU was set to earn him about $400,000 next year. His ARU contract, with incentives and match payments, has the potential to take his total package to $600,000, but only if Cooper plays every Test – at $13,000 a match.
Cooper will also have factored the fine into his grievances, along with the fact that he has gone from the Wallabies’ No.1 player heading into last year’s World Cup to not even being worthy of a guaranteed ARU contract a year later.
Wallabies captain Nathan Sharpe said Cooper’s reported departure would be a loss to Australian rugby.
”Quade’s a very talented player, and it’s like that with all player contracts, I suppose, people have to make their decisions, it’s an individual thing,” Sharpe said. ”I don’t know too much about it but that’s disappointing. Sometimes the chips don’t fall the way everyone wants them to.”
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/australia-rugby/aru-opens-door-for-cooper-to-walk-20121119-29m36.html#ixzz2CfvvqBO7
19 Nov 2012, 15:37 pm
The time has come for us as Soth Africans to realise that we cannot play the New Zealand type rugby, it is just not in our nature or for what ever reason.
We must go back to what we are good at and develop our game from there. People say it’s boring rugby but so what at the end of the day it’s about winning and nobody can beat us that game.
If we ever unearth another Danie Gerber or a Carel Du Plessis, yes then let’s change the game plan but at the moment let’s play forward dominated rugby with a good tactical kicker. i.e. Fourie Du Preez
I also think we should invest in another backline coach. The biggist problem for us is the backline. They just look so predictable and uninspiring at the moment.
19 Nov 2012, 15:37 pm
@Palooka-11:
Too True Mate
19 Nov 2012, 15:38 pm
I mean how dare the bumbling fool fuckwith my national teams back link like this\
Once there was a time when the Bok 9 – 15 was premier in world rugby………dont believe me
Then lets go back to 1998
9. Joost van der Westhuizen,
10. Henry Honiball,
11. Pieter Rossouw,
12. Pieter Muller,
13. André Snyman,
14. Stefan Terblanche,
15. Percy Montgomery
Or how about this one in 2007
9. Fourie DuPreez
10. Butch James
11. Bryan Habana
12. Frans Steyn
13. Jacque Fourie
14. JP Pieterson
15. Percy Montgomery
I mean are those backline structures so hard to replicate, JP Pieterson the world best 14 was not used once in a play/loop/skip pass
WTF………i suppose what else can be expected when your coach looks like a Military Police Commander from the late 80’s
19 Nov 2012, 15:40 pm
Beertjie,he should just admit that he has made mistakes and not make excuses and say things like..its an ugly win but we’ll take it..deja vu every week!Steve Hansen also began with new players and look how good they are..2 new coaches,new players..why not the comparison?
19 Nov 2012, 15:42 pm
@wnbb-29:
that is a seriously weak response…
your comment (and response) is a generalisation and bigoted…
there are more than a few other words coined by english speakers over the centuries… that doesn’t make it acceptable to use them… they are called derogatory for a reason…
horings quite rightly objected to it and i bet just about ever other reasonable person on here objects to it too… no matter what language they speak at home…
don’t you ever tire of turning almost every post into an insult…? your years-long fixation on insulting and brawling has a rainman ring to it… except nowhere near as endearing…
19 Nov 2012, 15:43 pm
@Rockn Rolla-33:
JP Pietersen is nowhere near the world’s best 14.
19 Nov 2012, 15:47 pm
RIP Ian Kirkpatrick….
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Ex-Bok-coach-Kirkpatrick-dies-20121119
19 Nov 2012, 15:51 pm
@iceman-31: I’m afraid it may be the fault of the Stormer centre pairing,they never got going in super rugby and they’re not getting going with the boks,as a Stormer supporter it’s deja vu all over again.
19 Nov 2012, 15:52 pm
@Rockn Rolla-33:
On behalf of the military police commanders of the 80′s I must object to the slander
19 Nov 2012, 15:53 pm
@Jatman-34: Yeah right. and that would have carried your approval?
19 Nov 2012, 15:55 pm
Heyneke must stop looking for excuses. We have some of the best players in world rugby to our disposal, but are currently being over coached. Lambie’s first instict on Saturday was to kick the ball away. A few times we had overlaps and Lambie decides to kick for the wing or an up and under.
19 Nov 2012, 15:57 pm
keep your emotions in check heyneke…no need for sarcasm
where is that psychology degree now, it is needed tl tl tl
19 Nov 2012, 15:59 pm
@Kaizan-36:
OK so who is then?????????
19 Nov 2012, 16:09 pm
“They’ve played Australia, who are one of the better defensive sides in the world and scored three times. We scored five in one match against Australia at Loftus and one in the other [in Perth], so we’ve got six against their three in a game less. Suddenly the picture looks different.”
There is your proof that the Boks are a more attacking side than the All Blacks.
19 Nov 2012, 16:12 pm
Here is my selected All Stars Team
15. Corey Jane
14. JPP
13 Adam Asley Cooper
12 SBW
11 Horacio Agulla
10 Dan Carter
9 Aaron Smith
8 Sergio Parisse
7 Flo
6 Juan Martin Fernandez Lobb
5 Samuel Whitelock
4 Eben Etzebeth
3 Nicolas Mas
2 Andrew Hore
1 Wyatt Crockett
NZ 7
FR 1
SA 3
AU 1
AR 2
IT 1
19 Nov 2012, 16:13 pm
@rockn rolla: look no further than cory jane
19 Nov 2012, 16:13 pm
Bissmark For Hore tho
19 Nov 2012, 16:14 pm
Cory jane best 14
19 Nov 2012, 16:17 pm
@supersader-48:
I always though he was a classic 15, then again so is Dagg…….
JP vs Jane…….on his day JP will have his #
19 Nov 2012, 16:20 pm
@Rockn Rolla-43:
Not JP Pietersen. 14 tries in 47 caps is not the record of the world’s best winger.
There are loads of great wings out there (many of whom can play on the left or the right).
George North, Alex Cuthbert, Chris Ashton, Corey Jane, Julian Savea, Hosea Gear, Digby Iaone, James O’Connor, Drew Mitchell, Gio Aplon, Alesana Tuilagi, David Lemi, Vincent Clerc and many more… I haven’t even mentioned the more unknown Fijian and Tongan Wingers who would look like world beaters if they played for a better team.
JP is good but with only 14 tries in his entire career of nearly 50 caps, it’s a bit bold to say he is the best in the world.
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