Meyer rejects Blacks comparison
19 Nov 2012
RYAN VREDE, in London, reports that Heyneke Meyer says comparisons between the Springboks and All Blacks are ill-formed and unfair, explaining the world champions are far advanced in their development.
The Springboks’ victory over Scotland somewhat polarised opinion. Some lauded an almighty defence performance that restrict their hosts to just one try despite their comprehensive dominance of territory and possession in the second half. Other lamented another match in which the Springboks looked impotent, imprecise and unimaginative in what Meyer calls the ‘goal zone’ (between opposition tryline and 22m).
For most of the latter group, the All Blacks’ 51-22 victory over the Scots six days earlier was used as the benchmark for the Springboks, and their inability to meet those expectations then fueled their frustration.
Meyer is acutely aware of the criticism and comparison and has generally tried to be diplomatic in explaining the mitigating factors for their struggles. However, speaking in London ahead of the final Test of an unbeaten year-end tour against England, Meyer’s own frustrations were obvious.
‘Comparisons are always fun to do. Let’s do another one,’ he began. ‘They’ve played Australia, who are one of the better defensive sides in the world and scored three times. We scored five in one match against Australia at Loftus and one in the other [in Perth], so we’ve got six against their three in a game less. Suddenly the picture looks different.
‘They have the luxury of playing a different side if they choose because they’ve developed the depth. There’s more than 19 players either injured, unavailable or retired from the World Cup Springboks. They use their whole system to ensure the side peaks at the rights times. They are far more experienced – with Richie McCaw there as 100 plus games as an assistant and Steven Hansen 100 games an assistant. So you have to compare apples with apples.’
Meyer, however, tempered that stern rebuttal by acknowledging the Blacks’ killer instinct when presented with scoring opportunities, which is a glaring deficiency in the Springboks’ game.
‘Where they are definitely ahead is that they are far more clinical than us. Whenever they get a chance to score a try they do. Scotland were in the game against them, then they made two errors and the game was different. We were 16-12 up at half time of the Soccer City Test and a mistake from the kick-off and they were away.’
The Springboks’ forwards were awe-inspiring at the gainline on attack in the first half of the Murrayfield Test, as they were in the second against Ireland. Still there is a large degree of predictability about the attack and an apparent lack of spacial awareness of intelligence in contact, which is a hallmark of the Blacks. The New Zealanders carry the ball powerfully, but also possess the presence of mind to do so in a manner that allows them to free their hands often, after which they have the option of picking off support runners, who are never in short supply.
This is the legitimate criticism of the Springboks’ attack, not that they appear to kick away possession (often their opponents, including the Blacks, have kicked more). It is this refinement that is required and that is entirely a coaching issue.
169 Comments
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19 Nov 2012, 16:20 pm
Jane is consistent jp has his moments
19 Nov 2012, 16:21 pm
Jane anyday all day
19 Nov 2012, 16:24 pm
I think I truly reached a point where nothing the average fans says surprises me anymore.
19 Nov 2012, 16:24 pm
@ufo-35: No need to get all precious now,UFO .I have never seen you getting all excited at bigoted words or sayings directed at black and coloured people by idiots like Sl,Katman etc etc.Don’t be a hypocrite now old boy.
19 Nov 2012, 16:26 pm
@ufo-35:
I suppose I am an “Afrikaner”, but I don’t mind the term “rokspaaider” at all. Especially when it is used on someone so deserving as HM.
Are you a soutpiel?
19 Nov 2012, 16:28 pm
wnbb is gewoond aan mes steek rugby en scores van 70 – 39 ens ens … die is internasionale toetsrugby ou maat … nie Ben Plaatjies XV vs Neville Meintjies Old Boys nie
19 Nov 2012, 16:29 pm
@PissAnt-53: I suggest you take a break. Your sense of superiority is a bit tiresome.
19 Nov 2012, 16:29 pm
As expected, HM is totally missing the point, which is that his style of rugby is boring, uninspiring and will NOT win over the better teams, like NZ.
19 Nov 2012, 16:31 pm
@suffer_guy-56:
Now, that’s much more bigoted than calling someone a rockspider.
19 Nov 2012, 16:32 pm
Let us not forget facts here wherever the Boks are on whatever cycle… And let us not forget Meyer and his sentiment at the beginning of his tenure of wanting to “win every game”…
The facts are:
Wins: 6
Losses: 3
Draws: 2
This is a 55% win ratio, and before the acolytes start swinging from the chandoliers and spouting forth about “coulda woulda”, let us also not forget that the 2 draws were very very lucky not to be losses… Also the one win against England was squeakybum time, not to mention Ireland was 2 measly points away from a loss too…
So the results “coulda woulda” been
Wins 5
Losses 6
This makes Straeuli look farken genius working with half the talent Meyer has at his disposal…
Boks are fcked, I tell you and its going to get worse before it gets better because Meyer reckons he has all the answers…
19 Nov 2012, 16:32 pm
@suffer_guy-56: hahahahahahahaha !Funny guy.
19 Nov 2012, 16:33 pm
@Heavens Game-60: This isnt even including a possible loss to England next week, especially if the Boks continue playing the same way they have been playing Irish and Scots B Teams…
19 Nov 2012, 16:35 pm
@Heavens Game-60:
To me it looks more like a menstrual cycle.
19 Nov 2012, 16:36 pm
@PissAnt-53: 11 years behind Mallett
19 Nov 2012, 16:37 pm
Heavens Game.. you have to look at what players the coach has at his disposal …
Malllet did nothing with Italy …
even PDV looked half decent because het had the worlds best in some positions…
players PDV had, which Heyneke doesn’t :
Matfield
Fourie Dup
Bakkies
S Burger
Juan Smith
Bissie (injured)
A on form Morne Steyn
F Steyn
J Fourie
massive difference … even grant10 will win a few games if he had to coach a team with some of those players
19 Nov 2012, 16:39 pm
@kaksioek-57:
Really.
I don’t have much time to post anymore and enjoy reading thoughts from supporters. Usually I look forward to intelligent comments from fellow supporters willing to engage in a rugby debate. Which quite often happens mind you.
How about you offer one intelligent one to anything Meyer says in this article?
19 Nov 2012, 16:40 pm
take out Carter and NZ are half the team (rwc final vs france)
now take out McCaw …. whole different team!
19 Nov 2012, 16:41 pm
When Meyer was selected you said that he had all the answers.Now that it had gone horribly wrong for your Messiah you want us to believe that you are now this great rugby ‘kenner’.Skop is right.You change your views more than Gunther would change his knickers in a calendar year.
19 Nov 2012, 16:44 pm
@suffer_guy-65:
Having players like FSteyn and JFourie doesn’t mean ***** if the ball never get to them or if they are instructed to run into the first opponent.
19 Nov 2012, 16:45 pm
@suffer_guy-65: f’ng gatkruip apologist.. now its look who we missing.. the point is look what a goddamn useless dumb arsewipe coach you got..
@Heavens Game-60:
look who’s singing my kinda song all of a sardine.. what took you so f’ng long to open up your hail hallelujah blue eyed wannabe eyesight and check the reality staring you down.. when it was plain to see from first dawn of light when the supremacist called his first squad.. now 5 months later you wanna act like the seer who can see the wood for the trees.
19 Nov 2012, 16:45 pm
@wnbb-54:
so you admit to being a bigot then…? well done… 11 steps to go…
oh but i have… you’re just so busy writing your next insult in your running battles on keo that you don’t pay attention to whatever anyone else is writing…
@TooMuchRugby-55:
you “suppose” you are an afrikaner…?
okay…
19 Nov 2012, 16:46 pm
TooMuchRugby did the bok backline run the ball under pdv?
19 Nov 2012, 16:49 pm
@PissAnt-66: OK, with regards to this comment:
‘Where they are definitely ahead is that they are far more clinical than us. Whenever they get a chance to score a try they do. Scotland were in the game against them, then they made two errors and the game was different. We were 16-12 up at half time of the Soccer City Test and a mistake from the kick-off and they were away.’
I put it to you that the Boks would have a far better chance of being “clinical” if Meyer flipped a mental switch and realised that bad ball should go to the forwards and good ball should go to the backs, because his policy seems to be the complete opposite.
In the game against Scotland the Scots knew full well what the Boks would do with the ball in their 22, and took the decision to stand off and not commit to the maul. It worked and they were awarded a penalty.
Later in the game the scenario repeated itself and the Boks did exactly the same thing, with the Scots again standing off. This time the referee waved play on and the Boks scored. There was no real difference between the two scenarios, despite Naas Botha’s “analysis” in the SS studio.
It was pure chance that the referee took a completely different view of the same situation – one of those two refereeing decisions were wrong.
But the issue here is that Meyer’s Boks persisted with the exact same tactic – because that is what they have been coached to do.
This is why the Boks are not clinical – because Meyer is heavily focused on forward play, and sees backs as a necessary evil.
19 Nov 2012, 16:52 pm
Farkit….I cant actually recall such a depressing season actually…..first my Stormers defend like there is no tomorrow and hardly throw a punch in return…..then the Boks replicate the process…
Thank heavens for WP and the Vodacom Cup team….much much much more pleasant to watch….
19 Nov 2012, 16:53 pm
PA…
ignore kaksioek…
and keep your contributions coming…
19 Nov 2012, 16:53 pm
“They have the luxury of playing a different side if they choose because they’ve developed the depth.”
The fact is that they play a beautiful, exiting brand of rugby no matter what side they choose. I don’t think that has something to do with their depth. It has more to do with their approach to the game.
On the other hand, even if the 19 “injured, unavailable or retired” players WERE available and thus giving us the depth that you are craving, we would’ve still played this kak brand of rugby.
Why are we even talking about retired players as if they somehow would’ve made a difference? I’ve never heard once that the AB coach/supporters bemoan the fact that a guy like Mils Muliaina is not available for them anymore.
19 Nov 2012, 16:54 pm
@kaksioek-57: there are a whole lot of precious superiority complexes pandering around these web sites.. if you check them out some really do think they got superiority oozing through their self endowed ‘intelligence’
that’s how it goes with the human race.. you will always get those with superior ‘class’ breeding thinking they got dished up superior type intelligence along with their superior type inherited attitudes and genetics and skin color and you name it.. plenty superiority type class doing the rounds around here.
19 Nov 2012, 16:54 pm
best rugby was played by the Sharks in last few matches of their campaign….brilliant stuff that gave me hope for SA Rugby….and then along came HM and his okes….
farkit man
19 Nov 2012, 16:55 pm
@ufo-71:
Well, i suppose you are indeed a soutpiel. If so, please don’t try and stand up for people who don’t need your help.
19 Nov 2012, 16:56 pm
@ufo-71: no.some of my best mates are Afrikaners.
19 Nov 2012, 16:57 pm
@kaksioek-73:
Well when you have the ball in the strike zone every ball is a good ball, what is needed is to create pace on the ball which will create space. This is done 99% of the time of getting behind any defence and a quick recycle which can be done by a forward, and is probably the best guy to do so.
Meyer does not decide what pass goes where, the players do and there is one goal in mind, getting behind the opposition defence.
As for the line out, missed Naas’ analysis. For me the ref was wrong in the first call, it was the same maul, if the Scots decide to stand off after contact was made, that’s their problem. He got the call right the second time around as you said, in exactly the same scenario.
The difference between the Boks and NZ in their ruck play, is NZ is much more clinical cleaning defenders and ensuring quick ball, Boks are way too laboured here with a confusion in specific role definition for players – in other words, the one side (AB’s) seems to be the better drilled side in this department.
19 Nov 2012, 16:57 pm
@skopdiekan-77: Ja, call me crazy but I think the aim of this forum is for people to post their views.
19 Nov 2012, 16:58 pm
@grant10-74: The question is whether the Stormers will play the same rugby next year?
19 Nov 2012, 16:59 pm
@suffer_guy-72: If they only ran to the toilet, it woulf have been more than what is currently happening
19 Nov 2012, 17:00 pm
@wnbb-29: No friend I am not.Nor is my wife and her family.
19 Nov 2012, 17:01 pm
@PissAnt-81: The difference between the ABs and the Boks is that when the ABs get a quick recycle in the opposition’s 22 the ball will in all likelihood go to the backs.
For the Boks, quickly recycled ball – “good” ball – goes to another forward who smashes it up, frequently gaining no more ground and resulting in a slow recycle – bad ball. This is repeated until we score – which isn’t very often – or we lose possession or are penalized – which is very often.
19 Nov 2012, 17:03 pm
@TooMuchRugby-84:
19 Nov 2012, 17:03 pm
@kaksioek-82: looks like there’s a petition doing the rounds here for only bone fide ‘class’ high society opinionated self righteousness to be given the green light among the honorary hob nob snob intelligentsia of keo
I far rather keep vloeking my way through life than watch these dumb bloody morons thinking they represent the echelons of the rugby intelligent society in this arse end of creation.
19 Nov 2012, 17:03 pm
@kaksioek-86: Occasionally, the scrumhalf will see the inevitable coming and desperately pass slowly recycled ball to a back who is faced by a wall of well-prepared defenders. None of this encourages “clinical” finishing, but then what would you expect from a team whose forwards coach doubles as the attack coach?
19 Nov 2012, 17:05 pm
The 42-6 against England was some of the best rugby the Boks played under PdV.Will we see something similar this Saturday ??I don’t think so as Heyneke lacks a bit in the grey matter department.
19 Nov 2012, 17:05 pm
@skopdiekan-70: Yes… Its called rationalism what I do…
Unlike others, including you:
1. I take a position, not sit on the fence
2. I critically examine my position in light of evidence
3. Evidence supports my initial position, I keep it
4. Evidence to the contrary, I change my position
Once my position has changed, rarely do I change it again… Unlike others, including you and your mate Piglet, where you change your mind according to:
a. The fullness of the moon
b. Your current hormonal balance or blood pressure
c. Whatever Hari Rama last said…
d. How white your latest fixation may be…
I have the right to change my mind or position and any rational change is made by me and my observation, not some barely rugby literate pseudokenners who have never thrown a ball in anger in their goddamn lives outside the u16c team at Springs Primary School…
Dumbfuck hypocrite
19 Nov 2012, 17:05 pm
@kaksioek-86:
Too true.
19 Nov 2012, 17:05 pm
@PissAnt-81:
Forward battering rams is not the best way to get “behind” the opponents. Running (or kicking) into space is. They fail to do either.
Using Alberts as a strike runner does have it merits, but only up to a point.
W.r.t. the line-out maul you are correct, the ref got it wrong the first time because one of the Scots actually joined before the other stood off, but the point is that the ref penalised the Boks, but they still decided to do it again.
19 Nov 2012, 17:05 pm
@kaksioek-86:
I cannot think when last we had front foot ball inside opposition 22′s. It’s usually laboured and static and our problem comes in trying to re-generate momentum.
Boks have a **** lot to improve on. But if I am not mistaken the most consistent combination selected in 2012 that did not suffer from injury is our lock combination? And these two lads are in their debut season.
Craig Ray made a good point this morning. The Boks are still winning playing really bad rugby. The more combinations settle and the more experience they gain at this level the better they will get.
19 Nov 2012, 17:07 pm
@kaksioek-86: 100%. Borg rugby all the way… Honed at the Bulls, copied by the Stormers and continued by the Boks…
Skop en jag supremacy….
19 Nov 2012, 17:07 pm
@ryecatcher-85: Good evening to you,Rye.What seems to be the problem?
19 Nov 2012, 17:07 pm
@wnbb-83: Hopefully with Jantjes there things will change….I spent a small fortune on tickets this year and left feeling flat and deflated every time….Stormers need to be more bold ….I think the new acquisitions will assist…and hopefully JDV will spend a lot of time being rotated…that crash ball is killing me man….
19 Nov 2012, 17:08 pm
@Heavens Game-91: correction: made by me and through my observation…
Fark, I am becoming as braindead in posting as the average Keo journo…
19 Nov 2012, 17:08 pm
@TooMuchRugby-93:
Kicking in the strike zone the best option? Cannot agree with that. Also you have 15 defenders in your face because there is no space to defend at the back anymore so running into space there is quite limited.
They did do it again, because they knew they were not at fault. The second time they scored. Do you think that was the wrong decision?
19 Nov 2012, 17:09 pm
@ufo-37: Watched a test at Newlands.Moaner van Heerden,a dirty player of note,pulled one of his usual stunts.Kirkpatrick chased him for about 50m.Moaner running away like a hare.Felt embarassed. Anywayb ref called the chase off..
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