Openside hybrid non-negotiable for Boks
20 Nov 2012
RYAN VREDE, in London, reports Springbok defence coach John McFarland believes there isn’t room in Test rugby for an openside who isn’t equally competent at the breakdown as he is with ball in hand.
This echoes the view head coach Heyneke Meyer expressed in the early part of his tenure and explains why the likes of Heinrich Brussow are unlikely to come into the selection frame for the Springboks.
Indeed the world’s elite opensiders, Richie McCaw and David Pocock, fit the description of the type of player Meyer and McFarland believe to be most effective in the role. Wales’ Sam Warburton is similarly equipped.
The Springboks have benefited hugely from the emergence of Francois Louw as an openside of world-class standing and one that ticks all the boxes that seem to be a prerequisite for success in the position. Certainly a strong argument can be made for him as the pre-eminent player in his position in the world at present, such has been the calibre of his showings since his return to the side in the latter part of the Rugby Championship.
‘Its important to get the mix [in an openside]. The advantage Flo has is that he is 6ft and 112kg. There aren’t many opensiders with the ability to steal and hit guys backwards like he does. Then he brings the carrying aspect as well,’ McFarland said. ‘Flo has offered us massive positives because he has been here [in the northern hemisphere with Bath] so long. He has made a significant difference in our ability to make tackles and get turnovers.’
The Springboks have conceded an average of 1.2 tries per game this season and much of that has to do with Louw’s seeming omnipresence and potency at the breakdown. However, it would be grossly unfair not to commend the efforts of the collective in this regard, with particular emphasis on Louw’s back row partners Duane Vermeulen and Willem Alberts.
‘They work very well as a combination,’ McFarland said. ‘Willem whacks guys backwards. His first tackle on [Scotland's] Nick De Luca, where he drove him five or six metres backwards, really set the tone for the game. Duane reads things so well and consistently wins the team’s big hit award, while Flo make his turnovers and slows the ball down superbly. Then Marcell Coetzee comes on and gives us that massive work rate. So we’re really pleased there.’
Turning his attention to Saturday’s Test at Twickenham against England, McFarland said their ability to keep midfielders Brad Barritt and Manu Tuilagi in check would be central to their success.
‘We have to cut down their space and stop their momentum,’ he said, before highlighting another area of focus. ‘There is a big threat off quick-tap penalties from Danny Care, who tends to jump the whistle when advantage is called. So it is a matter of us being alert to that. If you look at their best bits of play against Australia, those came from quick taps and even though they didn’t get the three points they got massive momentum and create many scoring opportunities.’
105 Comments
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20 Nov 2012, 16:39 pm
Schalk is no opensider…I am not in favour of these so called hybrids…..I can spot a ‘ false ‘ fetcher a mile off…..when they tried Marcelle Coetsee there I knew istraight away it was a fark up….they will ruin rthese okes by trying to make them fetchers…
Great Danes are GReat Danes, Spaniels are Spaniels…..
Pitbulls are rare….
Idntify 2 or 3 of the best….
and stick with them…..
That Griquas oke is damn good…..
so is A FIT STEGGMANN
20 Nov 2012, 16:40 pm
@grant10-51: Agree 100%.
Flo
Brussow
Schoeman
Stegmann
Are the ONLY opensiders that should be considered.
It is a specialist position.
20 Nov 2012, 16:40 pm
@TooMuchRugby-5:
That doesn’t say much about all you dumbfcuks on this website that never mentioned Louw even once. When he left for the UK there was hardly a peep.
20 Nov 2012, 16:41 pm
@willievz-50: he won’t start Saturday.. if lucky he’ll get a cameo opportunity off bench if by any chance we are in the ascendancy by minute 70 or thereabouts with Taute back to 13 and Kirchner hogging the last line of single dimensional duty at 15
20 Nov 2012, 16:41 pm
@TooMuchRugby-49: Yes he was briliant; add to that 2 penalties comceded , and 2 knocks , 2 missed tackles, 1 line out missed, also the best in the team , brilliant.
20 Nov 2012, 16:42 pm
@willievz-52: Add Minnie to that list
20 Nov 2012, 16:44 pm
@willievz-52: YES SIR…..A true Kenner you are…salutations…
20 Nov 2012, 16:45 pm
@willievz-56: actually Deon Fourie should be top of that list between Fourie and Bismark we have the best ground ball grovelling fetchers in the business by some distance
Adriaan Strauss don’t come anywhere near.
20 Nov 2012, 16:47 pm
@STBUR-53: Really…?
Go check who was calling for his selection at least 2 weeks before he was called up….
20 Nov 2012, 16:47 pm
@STBUR-53:
That’s because at that stage Brussouw was still considered to be the best, therefore the loss of Flo was not seen as a trainsmash. And Schalk was not injured.
20 Nov 2012, 16:48 pm
D Fourie is good enough to start for boks at 2 or 6….now that is a farken rare talent…..Pitbull extreme…
20 Nov 2012, 16:49 pm
@capebull-55:
Hoe bome vang die meeste wind.
20 Nov 2012, 16:49 pm
@skopdiekan-58: Yes! Why did I forget him?
So my pecking order at the moment is
Flo
Brussow
Fourie
Minnie
Schoeman
Stegmann
20 Nov 2012, 16:50 pm
@grant10-59: make it two years before he went to UK I was calling for F Louw to captain Stormers and to captain Boks after Smit or JdV.. I was calling for JdV as captain as long ago as 2009 and earmarked F Louw as potential Stormers captain and Bok captain as long ago as around 2010-2011
20 Nov 2012, 16:50 pm
Brussow and Flo….we sorted
That damn tighthead is my worry though….damn we need Mujati in the mix….big time.
20 Nov 2012, 16:52 pm
@skopdiekan-64: I remember Skop….another Kenner….you and Willie the reason I check in here now and then….and of course to watch Tacitus squirm as his team and coach lurch from crisis to crisis…
cheers
gotta run
20 Nov 2012, 16:55 pm
@TooMuchRugby-62:
I will concede that Vermeulen is not the most flamboyant nr. 8 there is, like your man Spies, but he sure puts in the hard graft.
Actually what am I saying? Spies can do neither.
20 Nov 2012, 16:56 pm
@TooMuchRugby-62: Ek dink regtig hy is niks special nie. Ek glo hy gaan sukkel om span te haal volgende jaar.
20 Nov 2012, 16:56 pm
@grant10-65:
Jannie
Coenie
Mujati
Cilliers
Think TH is covered if Mujati gets sorted.
20 Nov 2012, 16:57 pm
@TooMuchRugby-67: …and you are talking to who ?? Toemaar dis laat in die dag…
20 Nov 2012, 16:57 pm
@grant10-65: Kolisi another option – I think he´s going to develop a lot next year – watch this space.
20 Nov 2012, 17:00 pm
@capebull-70:
Ha Ha. Miskien praat ek met die enigste ou hier wat iets weet.
20 Nov 2012, 17:04 pm
@grant10-66: Willievz is perhaps the most knowledgeable rugby contributor and also perhaps the most decent congenial gentleman of this blog by some distance… perhaps the ultimate Bok supporter is one who can view the game with all provincial blinders off and clear objective vision from a position of unattached knowledgeable objectivity such as a poster like he shows consistently.
@Slumtown-69: forget Coenie and perhaps Mujati and Jannie will take strain if required to shoulder the responsibility as often as is currently asked
Cilliers should be starting 3 ahead of them all.. he might need to bulk up a little but it should go something like
Cilliers, Jannie, Geldenhuys, Mujati, Malherbe
20 Nov 2012, 17:10 pm
This so called hybrid is a misleading. description. The first requirement is the ability to poach and slow the ball down. Without that you might as well play Alberts and 6. HMs reason for ignoring Brussouw was that specialist fetchers incur too many penalties with the new rules. I wish these guys would at least get their lies straight.
20 Nov 2012, 17:16 pm
@Slumtown-71: not a fetcher but a very solid defender and ball carrier in a true blind side or 8th man role…
coaches are muddling up all the talents of the players… Meyer played Coetsee at 6.. wrong.. AC played Kolisi at 6 also wrong…. Fourie to 8 by AC in S15 semi final was diabolically wrong when he had players like Quinn Roux and Don Armand who could easily have filled the No.7 or No.8 position with far better effect.. – wrong again
Coaches seem to confuse themselves when trying to balance up their loose forward contingents.. it took Meyer how long to realize that Coetsee, Potgieter and Spies was a diabolical disaster? yet he persisted with it till eventually somebody convinced him to enlist F Louw
Kolisi is a natural 8 same as Coetsee is a natural 8 and likewise so is Arno Botha also a natural 8.. yet to utilize these players together coaches will look to compromise their talents and use them out of position eg. like at 6.. which doesn’t do either the player or the coach or the team much good ultimately in the long run… not that they cannot contribute in an alien position to their natural strengths just that they can’t contribute as much as if they were playing in their more favorable position which suits their talents better.
20 Nov 2012, 17:25 pm
@skopdiekan-75: will be interesting to see how he develops this year – not sure he has the height for a true eigth man. But definitely the other abilities. I´d be interested to see how his fetching develops. Louw wasnt much of a fetcher when he started but has really grown into the role.
20 Nov 2012, 17:34 pm
@Slumtown-76: F Louw is about as close you will get to this strange term referred to as a ‘hybrid’ loosie because he is equally as comfortable at 6 or 7.. Schalk should never have played at 6.. completely wrong position for him as Brussow proved when he usurped the No.6 jersey in 2009..
So true fetcher flanks like Brussow, Stegmann, Hooper, Pocock and Deon Fourie, Messam etc. are a breed apart.. but F Louw is very much a ball carrying player who is very strong at the breakdown and technically can turn dead ball over through timing and positional and physical strength at the tackle point.
Balance in loose trios go further to create combined strengths than to single out individual capabilities.. and that is why with Vermeulen and F Louw hunting together it brings more reward than someone like Coetsee, Potgieter and Spies playing totally disjointed individual roles.
20 Nov 2012, 17:44 pm
@skopdiekan-77: yep well said. I believe kolisi has the right physique to make a good fetcher as well though. He has been a very mobile ball carrier and excellent defender and seemed to grow in stature this year before his injury. Would be interesting to see if he add fetching to that role. Would love to see him included in the current setup. Believe he offers more facets to his play than Marcell does.
20 Nov 2012, 17:51 pm
@Slumtown-78: agree Kolisi has a level of tough no nonsense capability that few players of that age possess.. Coetsee more of a young Burger type loose cannon kamakaze player.. Kolisi far more robust and seems more focused either in defense at the tackle point or on the charge through the gain line as he skinned Bulls apart to put Habana away at Loftus earlier in the year.
Between Coetsee, Kolisi and Arno Botha will be interesting to see who Meyer settles on in his loosie contingent.. I reckon that dreaded prejudicial disease will raise its jaundiced ugly head once again and the whitey will invariably get the nod under herstigte nationale restitution and ‘best family type fit’ scenarios.
20 Nov 2012, 17:57 pm
@Slumtown-78:
The role of fetcher has changed since the days of the younger McCaw and George Smith, who were masters at tackling and stealing immediately afterwards. Brussouw uses the same technique. During his time at WP, Flo perfected the skill of arriving second and competing for the ball, or standing of and choosing an opportunity attack the ball, as he did against Scotland.
20 Nov 2012, 17:58 pm
Ryan – in which hotel are the Boks staying in London?
20 Nov 2012, 18:05 pm
Standard South African stupid size mentality showing why the team are inable to score tries or adapt to a flowing style of rugby. Every team knows, keep the ball away from the big saffa’s and run them off their feet. This fixation with size is stupid and explains all I ever need to know about what our style and focus of rugby will be going forward. Indeed it smacks of the old Afrikaans v English school games where brute strength and size are the focus; yet amazing how brains and skill always seem to prevail. This focus on big ball carriers. Where exactly has it got us? Dumb big oofs who run at the opposition, trying to streamtrain them aside … yawn. The force that makes us so attractive to watch. Flo has been a revelation but to write someone like Brussouw or indeed Daniel off because they have a brain and aren’t six hundred kg’s and as tall as the hills make me laugh and cry in despair. Huge props that as far as I can see haven’t dominated for more years than I care to remember yet are each year told how great they are. Huge tall locks that hang out in the backline or at wing (we all know who he is), massive big centres that have forgotten the art of the jink, swerve, pop pass, off load in a tackle or simple skip pass.
I read it all the time on these blogs about how a good big one is better than a good little one. Chaps your size envy is what lets you down! Intelligence and applied size and use of skills is what makes a good team. Team work and using your brain not a robotic applied style is what makes a team effective. Poor Lambie how he must yearn for the Sharks. The poor kid will be rubbish by the end of the year.
Time for a reality check me thinks.
20 Nov 2012, 18:16 pm
Lionel Cronje moves from the Bulls to the LIons…
20 Nov 2012, 18:17 pm
@ufo-83: Now we got both. And they’re equally useless.
20 Nov 2012, 18:22 pm
@katman-84:
yeah… this kid really seems to have thrown all his potential down the loo… (not calling the lions the loo… his attitude has been wrong from the time rassie raved about him…)
20 Nov 2012, 18:31 pm
Skopdiekan, here is a pearler from the past for you….
747.greatest13gerber said:
3 Jun 2012, 12:48 pm
Dean Greyling unlucky as well – would have being good impact off the bench.
20 Nov 2012, 18:44 pm
As much as I admire Alberts, I really think that the Boks balance at loose forward is compromised. I really think we need a live wire, FAST loosie like Coetzee or Kolisi playing along side Louw (who has been a revelation) and Vermuelen (for now) then Kankowski when he returns from sushi land. With Bismarck back as a strongman/2nd fetcher (Yes, even as well as Struss has played) I think the Bok pack will be awesome. Vermuelen has played solidly but for me he lacks an X factor that Kankowski has. And god knows we need an X factor to help our pedestrian backs. Admittedly Frans Steyn will make a big diff but I believe we need him at fullback instead of the man-for-no-reasons who currently “fills” the #15 jersey. And PLEASE…lets start a real wing and use Hougaard as versitile off-the-bench player, not a starting wing.
20 Nov 2012, 19:01 pm
@grant10-51: ja, the 2004 IRB player of the year, playing in a 6 jumper was no opensider.
20 Nov 2012, 19:17 pm
@katman-84: Actually if he can stay fit and motivated you could do a lot worse than Lionel.
You could do a lot better too though..
20 Nov 2012, 20:30 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-86: check this one: 460.grant10:
6 Nov 2011, 12:04 pm @Tacitus(Deucalion)-458: heyneke 1000 times before AC for me!
20 Nov 2012, 21:09 pm
@wnbb-90: Not an AC fan….he has been far too conservative for my liking with the defence orientated game plan….
Give me Mallet and Mitchell……
However, hindsight is 20 20 vision and if I had to reflect AC would have been a better choice than HM…….now that I have seen the ball ups first hand.
20 Nov 2012, 21:39 pm
Nice to see all the former Heyneke fans shifting their positions now!!
20 Nov 2012, 21:45 pm
@wnbb-92: LOL
When you wrong you must man up….I was very wrong…
Eben gets off…
20 Nov 2012, 21:48 pm
A couple of years back Google reported Keo’s site to have malware. It happened again last week. This week, your site wants to install something from arcobalenofoz.com.br. Anyone from the crew that want to comment?
20 Nov 2012, 22:04 pm
Def malware my antivirus got it twice and my browser blocked the site@gussak-94:
20 Nov 2012, 22:18 pm
Etzebeth cleared!
21 Nov 2012, 01:20 am
Deon Fourie is far and away the best we have to offer in this category (uncapped, of course). I would play both him and flo together (innovate! South Africa – don’t just follow)
Locks: Eben, Alberts
Loosies: DFourie, Duane, Flo
Brussow(albeit injured) in the RWC QF = rag doll + thrown around….not good, man
And I really rated him
21 Nov 2012, 06:36 am
I dont understand why the objective is to bring ball carrying to both flanks, instead of fetching to both flanks? Why not play Flo at 7 and Heinrich at 6? Heinrich is actually no slouch at ball carrying either and he gets a head of steam up pretty often (and he is a much better ball player/defender/link/thinker than most other flankers we have, with gruibbber kicks, etc thrown into the mix). With more turnovers being won, we can score more tries when the opposition’s backline is in disarray. Instead the team hangs back defending, hoping for a mistake, and only once one does come, they try and play off set piece moves, when the defence is in position.
Then again, our backline would not know what to do with the ball of we got a turnover in broken play…
21 Nov 2012, 06:38 am
@j59-97: He was off for half of the match! he was being carefully watched, make no mistake – but that leaves gaps in other places. I did not see any problem with the Boks ball carrying while he was playing though…
21 Nov 2012, 07:16 am
@SjamBok-99:
Look heinrich’s impact since the lions tour has been more profound than any other bok debutant IMHO – but he DID get slightly dwarf tossed in the RWC – tough as he is, can’t be sustainable
Deon Fourie’s currie cup was brilliant tho (I just loved how he became stronger in the last 20 minutes of the final – something the TRex’s can’t do)
At least we agree on experimenting with two open siders
More raptors, less T-rex’s ne!
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