Etzebeth off the hook
21 Nov 2012
Eben Etzebeth has been found not guilty of eye gouging and is free to play against England on Saturday.
Lock Etzebeth was cited on Monday by Alan Mansell of England under Law 10.4 (m) for ‘making contact with the eye(s) or eye area’ of flyhalf Greig Laidlaw in the 54th minute of the Springboks’ 21-10 win over Scotland last Saturday.
Irish IRB judicial officer David Martin ruled that the contact in the area of the Scotland player’s eyes was accidental, and as such did not constitute foul play.
This was the 21-year-old’s second disciplinary hearing after being found guilty for an attempted head-butt on Wallabies lock Nathan Sharpe during the Rugby Championship.
444 Comments
20 Nov 2012, 22:29 pm
This dragon is one of our better players at the moment.
20 Nov 2012, 22:29 pm
Our lock stocks are pretty bare so this is a bit of a relief.
20 Nov 2012, 22:29 pm
Was a ridiculous citing to begin with.
Glad to hear sanity prevailed
20 Nov 2012, 22:30 pm
Nice one! Now go and moer a Pom good and proper on Sat.
20 Nov 2012, 22:30 pm
Anyone have much hope for a 42-6 thumping this weekend, like we saw the last time we visited England?
Somehow I just don’t think so…..
20 Nov 2012, 22:32 pm
@Liewe Luiperd-5:
I also doubt it.
Pondering with going for Boks by 11, but that might be to generous
20 Nov 2012, 22:34 pm
What a rubbish headline, as usual, this site is last to post with no detail and to post of the hook is referring to him actually being guilty
Who ever the journo, is must pull themselves towards themselves
20 Nov 2012, 22:41 pm
Good.Shame to all those Bulls supporters who tried to turn this citing into a provincial thing on rugby forums yesterday.
20 Nov 2012, 22:43 pm
@wnbb-8: It plain to see that it was a Pom that was pushing his luck with a hidden agenda of note
20 Nov 2012, 22:44 pm
This is good news. But you have to wonder how it got to this. Usual Pom conspiracy to hope to get some advantage. Robinson doing his best to secure his future post-Jockland.
20 Nov 2012, 22:47 pm
Absolutely.The lad missed training to waste his time somewhere at a London airport.Vindictive Pommies.
20 Nov 2012, 22:50 pm
Keo
I will safe you the hassle and time to copy and paste
The Springboks received the news they wanted to on Tuesday night as Eben Etzebeth was found not guilty of any wrong-doing in last weekend’s test against Scotland in Edinburgh.
After a marathon disciplinary hearing, it was confirmed by sources close to the Springboks that the Etzebeth defence of alleged eye-gouging at Murrayfield was successful, and he will be part of the Bok pack that tackles England at Twickenham on Saturday.
Etzebeth was cited by English independent citing officer Alan Mansel for an incident in the Murrayfield test which he interpreted as an attempt to attack Scotland flyhalf Greig Laidlaw’s eyes but which the Scotland player himself, and the Scotland management, did not believe was driven by any malicious intent. The not guilty verdict delivered late on Tuesday night surely calls into question the wisdom of having officials who hail from countries that a team is going to play next on tour acting as citing commissioners.
Few who saw the incident replayed on video or on the incident ever doubted that Etzebeth would be cleared, and it would be understandable if the Boks went onto the field at Twickenham on Saturday motivated by their anger at the perceived intent behind the citing. Etzebeth did not train on Tuesday so the citing did succeed in disrupting the Bok build-up.
There were further disruptions on Tuesday, and even with Etzebeth being cleared it still looks like the Boks might be facing an uphill struggle in the final test match of 2012, a game which coach Heyneke Meyer has admitted could be the defining one of the first year of his tenure.
Only Andries Strauss and Juandre Kruger of the anticipated starting tight five for Twickenham sat out the training session at the Latymer School in the White City suburb of London, with Jannie du Plessis being managed after a long year and the Bok management waiting on looshead Gurthro Steenkamp.
The former Bulls prop pulled up in training on Monday and his condition has posed enough concern to coach Meyer for him to call for JC van Rensburg to fly from South Africa to provide cover. Beast Mtawarira, the first choice loosehead, had already flown home, and on Tuesday night CJ van der Linde followed him after being ruled out with the hamstring injury he picked up at training on Monday.
Should Steenkamp not be cleared to play, Heinke van der Merwe, who played well when he came on as a replacement in the first tour match against Ireland in Dublin, will be wearing the No 1.
But in reality it may not be a good idea to read too much into who trained and who didn’t on Tuesday. The Boks are battered and bruised after a long year and Meyer has already said he intends managing the players through the week. Jean de Villiers for instance hardly trained last week because of flu and yet still played against Scotland, and it was a similar story with Du Plessis.
The bad news is that JP Pietersen still took no part in training on Tuesday and is starting to look an unlikely starter for Twickenham. Lwazi Mvovo, who did run on Tuesday, is the likely replacement on the right wing. The Bok team is to be announced at noon SA time on Wed
20 Nov 2012, 22:50 pm
safe=save
20 Nov 2012, 22:50 pm
what will happen now is the hysterical UK press will bang on about “thugs” etc to try unsettle Boks; and make ref all self-conscious and uber worrisome about his own performance come Saturday; watch net
20 Nov 2012, 22:53 pm
@JL1-12: What were you expecting, news, on Keo? Come on, this is a blog and a nice place for rugby fans to chat/fight in the comments section. No one reads the “articles” anyway
But thanks for saving me the trouble of searching elsewhere. A pity to see JPP is injured
20 Nov 2012, 22:53 pm
@jb-14: …or the Boks will now be so up for this game that the Poms will run for cover like a few old wars back in the day
20 Nov 2012, 22:53 pm
Did not know he was ever “on the hook”.. trying to brand him already.. lame.. sign of their fear of his potential perhaps..
20 Nov 2012, 22:55 pm
@gonzo-15: Yes, I know, I should know better by now about this site
The title just upset me, sloppy and sensational drivel
20 Nov 2012, 22:57 pm
Shows u something when all Boks have to get excited about is a very talented but lock fwd nonetheless.
Reminds one of the year when all there was to get excited about was Richard Bands try….little quality elsewhere
20 Nov 2012, 22:57 pm
@Guns-17: I mean the Scotsman and his team defended Eben but some gutless pom decided to target the lock
20 Nov 2012, 23:00 pm
@mshiniwami-19: not so sure that is an accurate assessment.
Jannie dup must be one of the top 3 TH in world rugby now
Beast remain a great looshead and Strauss is rated as the foremost hooker of the Autumn internationals
Etsebeth is brilliant and Flo must arguably the best or second best opensider currently
20 Nov 2012, 23:09 pm
@JL1-20: it’s absolutely pathetic! Typical under the belt true scumbag tactics! Faark its a joke! Boks better just use it as fuel for the fire!
20 Nov 2012, 23:16 pm
@JL1-12: Poms will be smiling they won’t have JP to deal with, then again was it not Mvovo who faced them in the June tests.. We wiki miss JPs physicality on defence and attack. Mvovo also a very physical runner just not on the same level as JPs defence and experience.
Agree about Junnie, def one of the best TH in world rugby atm.. He is being over played now though which we can all see.. We need a solid contender to step up to the plate and really compete for TH.
20 Nov 2012, 23:23 pm
Good ! Was ridiculous that he was even cited.
20 Nov 2012, 23:26 pm
I was just thinking, no burger, Juan, JS, Russow, Biz, BAKKIES, Who’s gna show the way forward to up the Tempo vs the old foe.. Junnie is always up for the old foe hope he’s not carrying a serious injury waiting to happen. Can bet Eben and the Ltrio will be too. Backs will need to sharp.
20 Nov 2012, 23:28 pm
@Guns-23: If the Poms watched Mvovo’s last Test they will kick to him all day.
20 Nov 2012, 23:29 pm
No, I don’t think Mvovo will start – and I’m a Sharks fan.
20 Nov 2012, 23:45 pm
Mvolvo scored last time he played at Pom ‘HQ’. He’ll be fine gents. He likes Twickers, the home of tweed and Pomposity …
20 Nov 2012, 23:54 pm
@kaksioek-27:
Who then?
HM is between a rock and a hard place.
If he plays Taute , Jean or someone else out of position he’s setting himself up for a world of hurt and critisism.
He selected Mvovo and Rhule, so if he ignores them now, the little bit of credibility he has will go down the drain.
Time to back the guys he chose to tour in the positions he chose them.
21 Nov 2012, 00:01 am
@nortierd-29: I would like him to play Rhule, with Mvovo on the bench in case he gets stage fright.
21 Nov 2012, 00:04 am
Absolute p iss poor decision to cite in the first place, this pommie doos has some serious impartiality questions now………fire the doos!
21 Nov 2012, 00:08 am
@kaksioek-30:
We would yes, but I doubt HM would want that.
Can already hear the stock answer to non selection ” the coach has been honest and up front with me and explained exactly how I fit in his plans and what I must work on “
21 Nov 2012, 00:18 am
Keo off the journalism hook. Cleared to continue posting rubbish.
21 Nov 2012, 01:04 am
I hope this is the last match where players is out of position…. We to much of a rugby nation not to have specialized players in specialized positions…
21 Nov 2012, 01:51 am
Had to be let off.
But again he really needs to be careful. To many grabs around the face could accidentally put him in danger of suspension.
21 Nov 2012, 01:57 am
I think we need to petition the IRB about the leniency Saffas get at the judiciary..
first greyling, now Etsebeth…. shocking, all we want is consistency and for them to stop favouring the bokke
(/end bakkies mode)
21 Nov 2012, 02:54 am
@Hurricane-35:
Agreed………….well wonders never cease?
21 Nov 2012, 02:55 am
@poppa69-36:
Go fish elsewhere you dropkick!
21 Nov 2012, 04:16 am
@whatever-37:
Typo
You accidentally typed agreed
21 Nov 2012, 04:24 am
@Hurricane-39:
No……I agreed
21 Nov 2012, 04:58 am
@whatever-38: I see my fish is still biting, have to throw the lil tiddler back though..
whats the matter whatever? cant handle a tongue in cheek comment huh?
loser…
21 Nov 2012, 05:47 am
@poppa69-41:
No, I just think you are an ar sehole………….you blow hot and cold
21 Nov 2012, 05:48 am
@poppa69-41:
so f u k off doos!
21 Nov 2012, 05:59 am
@JL1-12:
“The not guilty verdict delivered late on Tuesday night surely calls into question the wisdom of having officials who hail from countries that a team is going to play next on tour acting as citing commissioners.”
This was my view expressed on Monday night. Glad someone else feels the same way.
21 Nov 2012, 06:13 am
Delighted to see Eden off the hook however Flo can consider himself lucky not to be back on a plane to South Africa.
There is video footage currently doing the rounds on the website Planet Rugby clearly showing Flo stomp a Scottish player 3 metres from a forming ruck. This took place at the 12m 15s mark of either the 1st or 2nd half. Not sure.
Unbelievably damning & that fu*k wit Flo will look back on this with an enormous amount of embarrassment. What an absolute doos.
21 Nov 2012, 06:35 am
@whatever-43: hahahaha the rise I get out of you EVERY time is its own reward..
run along now fcktard…
21 Nov 2012, 06:43 am
So let me get this straight, from I hear from Heyneke is that:
Pierre Spies would get back into the team because the loose trio lacks pace? That’s funny because the Boks don’t play an expansive gameplan, so why do you need wingers as an 8th man to run into the nearest player?
Heyneke thinks Jaco Taute is so talented that he can play 12, 13 and 14? I’m baffled because I thought he was the best fullback in the country?
The hybrid opensider is suddenly integral to the Bok plan? So basically Heyeneke’s initial plans were completely off. What else is he wrong about?
Heyneke considers players like Juan de Jongh too small for international rugby. I find that strange as de Jongh compares to players like Habana and Christian Cullen in size. I like Mallet’s comment that if you want someone to bash the ball up at 12, why not play Alberts there? You’ll get over the gainline every time.
Heyneke hired Ricardo Loubser as the ‘backline’ coach. How does that work if van Graan is the attacking coach? What that tells me is that the attack is forward oriented and the backline coach has no say.
Heyneke is waiting on players such as: Habana, Frans Steyn, Morne Steyn, Fourie du Preez, Jacque Fourie, Pierre Spies, Schalk Burger, Andries Bekker, Bismarck du Plessis and Frik du Preez to comeback. All I heard these last 4 years was how superior Heyneke was to Pdivvie. Well his results and performance doesn’t say that. If he is so good, why can he not get these current players to perform? Maybe he is not as good as everybody thought and that the Bulls just had a fantastic structure and money to get those wins in the Super 14?
So, in all, I don’t think much will change in the next year, as you’ll always have injuries and off form players. What I want to know is when will Heyneke realise that what he conjures up in his head might not always materialise and in international rugby you have to adapt?
21 Nov 2012, 07:26 am
@whatever-31: I know that the original Twickenham was built on a reclaimed cabbage patch.
Seems like they accidently left some of the produce behind…
21 Nov 2012, 07:28 am
@Ricardo10-45: I am sure that all the Keoites that were upset about Thompsons ‘short’ ban for ‘stamping’ will be on here later to demand that Flo get at least a 5 game ban for what was in fact a much worse act
21 Nov 2012, 07:33 am
@aliboy
Agree. Thompson deserved more than he eventually was handed, but Flo’s stomp was about as premeditated as it gets. And THAT was a stomp.
21 Nov 2012, 07:38 am
All this bull s hit citing has achieved is to focus and fire up the Boks…..well done Pom Citing Official, you have done your team no favours whatsoever.
Moer hulle Bokke
21 Nov 2012, 07:39 am
@Ricardo10-45:
have you seen the incident…?
I doubt it… as you don’t even know what half it is in…
talk about premature articulation…
obviously flo’s excellent form is a worry in certain circles…!!
21 Nov 2012, 07:40 am
@Ricardo10-45:
sheesh…
talk about hyperbole… hype… exaggeration…
this was an even more nothing incident than eben’s…
flo peeled around a line out and passed the ball.. hougaard cut in front of him and in front of hougaard laidlaw went down…
flo was going forward as laidlaw was on his hands and knees.. flo steps on laidlaw’s back and you can clearly see him sort of hop as he tries not to put too much weight on the other player… laidlaw hardly buckled and carried on as if nothing had happened… which is what happened…
had flo “stomped” on laidlaw with any intent as you suggest he did… laidlaw would have been flattned and he would have felt it… he did not even react to it…
the only person who will look back on this incident with an enormous amount of embarrassment is that fu*k wit Ricardo10… What an absolute doos.
21 Nov 2012, 07:41 am
as far as eben is concerned…
said as soon as i saw the footage that I was confident he had not offended and would not be found guilty of any foul play, so I’m happy that sanity prevailed in the end…
However, three questions/points emerge from this insane little debacle…
1 why did it take a “marathon disciplinary hearing” to clear his name… that indicates that despite this being a non-event the citing commissioner must have really been determined to make it stick, which, in turn, would point to a less than honourable motivation
2 it also raises the question as to why such an obviously frivolous citing can be made without any censure of the citing commissioner who has wasted everyone’s time and money by forcing everyone to participate in such a farce
and
3 hopefully it will bring home to eben that he will be targeted from now on because his talent, ability and value have be recognised with green eyes and from now on his approach on the field has to be above reproach… yes he must continue to play hard but must forget about this stupid enforcer **** and simply not get involved with any off the ball or possibly questionable incidents…
the pity is is that how he used to play it… but he has definitely changed since moving to the Boks…
i remember him playing against the highlanders and when stuck in a ruck and unable to move two Highlanders charged in on his exposed head and shoulders while he could not defend himself by getting out of the way… so he ducked his head… took the impact… then looked up at them and said “is that all you got?” (or words similar) and motioned them with a free hand to come and try again…
that’s how he should keep cool… that’s how he should prove he’s a hard man… that’s the kind of mental strength he should display on the field…
as i said in my first post on this on tuesday… the boks need to appoint a mentor for eben to emphasize how he should conduct himself on the field…
and if saru don’t then ac should…
sadly though this is not a case of all’s well the ends well… because this sorta stuff sticks to a player… and the perception created is always seen as reality for those with agendas.
21 Nov 2012, 07:43 am
@ufo
Yes I most certainly have seen it………..about a dozen times and it
doesn’t get better with age you moron !!
Unfortunately the footage only shows the time frame but not which half –
possibly first half.
No premeditation here you dumb ********. Get on the site & check it out.
Dumkof
21 Nov 2012, 07:52 am
@Ricardo10-55:
hahaha
all the insults in the world don’t add any credibility to anything you say… despite how firmly you believe they may…
i don’t need to check it on any internet site…
have it recorded on pvr and have looked at it over and over in normal and slow motion… and trying to make capital out of it as you are indicates a rather fragile ego and intellect…
but hey… i don’t have to try and force my opinion down anyone’s thorat like you are trying to do…
i’ve pointed out the facts more clearly and, i believe, more objectively…
let all reasonable and intelligent rugby lovers watch the incident and make up their own minds…
i’m sure they’ll all add their comments…
we shall see…
21 Nov 2012, 07:52 am
@ufo
You are dillusional if you think he was stepping over that player. He stomped plain & simple. The fact that the sh*t has now hit the fan (albeit too late) in the UK is reason enough.
Not everyone over there hates the Saffas but now there are reports coming out of Scotland, Ireland & England wanting to know how in god’s name the ref missed it only feet away.
And before you scream “the ref did see it”, he has since been quoted as having missed it as he had seen a Scottish infringement at the ruck.
I am more than happy to discuss this but only with someone that can see both sides perhaps
A typical
21 Nov 2012, 07:52 am
@ufo-54:
perhaps Bakkies could mentor him?
21 Nov 2012, 08:03 am
re-watch the Scotland game, and see how many times Scottish players go into rucks where a Bok tackler is on the ground, and drop with their knee into him, or put the boot onto hte player. how many times they take a man off the ball, albeit softly – but disrupting him from getting to the next breakdown…. Then the Scots want to say the ref robbed them… everytime we kicked a high ball, 3 scots would get in the direct way of the chaser, and be standing between him and the catcher when the ball is caught. Stuff the brits, we must just whack england now, and come back to regroup. Hopefully next year we work on attacking play.
21 Nov 2012, 08:05 am
See Skop has been fiffling on N24 again:
It is my pet-peeve: ‘animal lovers’ waxing lyrical over their beloved dog while eating a mouth full of steak. I feel extremely strongly about the daily murder of our fellow sentient beings and while you may drive past a chicken coop, I see a concentration camp.
While you say ‘slaughter-house’ I say holocaust. You call it a refrigerator; I call it a mortuary.
I believe that not enough is done by vegetarians to speak out against these daily killings. Isn’t it ironic that while the atheists and Christians spend each day attacking each other, the REAL enemy is perpetual violence against animals?
God, Israel and the Gaza Strip get daily headlines, but animal murder gets zilch.
Imagine walking down the meat aisle in a supermarket and seeing a human arm cling wrapped next to the lamb knuckles. Or a human face staring up at you out of the freezer with a price per kilo sticker on the pack. Sound insane? Not the same thing? Well it is the same thing as and its disgusting.
I have noticed that meat eaters carry a lot of anger around inside of them. Wars are started by meat eaters, and it is claimed (not without reason) that meat eaters don’t just consume the flesh of their victims, they consume their pain and angst as well.
This pain morphs into an internal rage and what is called ‘emotional contamination’. It is not for nothing that most meat eaters support the death penalty and the bombing of Iraq.
They also like to hunt. Is there anything more sickening than a man who consciously decides to pick up a rifle and go in search of a sentient being (with a nervous system) to kill? Hunters are in essence serial killers which ever way you look at it.
The health benefits of a vegetarian diet are legendary. Famous vegetarians include Ghandi, Pamela Anderson, Ghengis Khan, Moby and Ellen De Generes. Politicians like Benjamin Franklin, Pot Pol and Socrates were also vegetarians. So was Leonardo da Vinci!
I challenge you to try the vegetarian diet for just one week. Notice how good you feel and also how well your bowels work. The roughage in your diet will clean your insides out like a pipe cleaner.
Ever wonder why animals don’t need toilet paper? That is because their diets are proper.
If you ate the correct food for your body you would not need one scrap of toilet paper. So besides saving on your food bill, you will save on toiletries as well. You will feel extremely content, focused and more in tune with nature.
Its difficult to describe how amazing you will feel without the Meat Heads accusing you of being sanctimonious.
But none of these benefits will compare with the feeling of knowing you are doing the right thing. It is time to fight back against the Meat Bullies.
The time for posing is over.
21 Nov 2012, 08:07 am
@RugbyStudent-47:
I don’t think one could compare Pieter De Villiers to the other Springbok coaches.
Pieter De Villiers inherited a “Ready made” team. Combinations like Jean De Villiers Jaque Fourie , Bakkies Matfield were already established. The team was established and settled , what did Pieter De Villiers really do ? He was just a manager really , letting Smit and Matfield call the shots.
I’m not a Heyneke fan at all , but he should have had the job in 2008.
2009 was the best year of Springbok Rugby I have enjoyed and that was a Bulls halfback pairing , a Bulls lock paring , a Bulls Kick n chase game-plan.
I say again , not a Heyneke fan , but he should have had the job when guys like Matfield and Du Preez were in their prime and the Boks were playing his gameplan. Those were his players , playing his style and were in the prime of their careers at the time.
Kitch Christie was able to take his provincial success to the international stage , by the time Heyneke got his chance , Bakkies , Danie Rossouw , Matfield and Du Preez were all old , overseas and not the same players as they were 4 years ago.
21 Nov 2012, 08:07 am
@Jake_White-59:
c’mon Jakey Scotland are ranked 10th in the world and have a handful of professional players
21 Nov 2012, 08:07 am
@Ricardo10-57: hmmm, and the pommie bast@rd citing commissioner missed it too, after having the benefit of countless replays, slow motion, etc?
Just maybe he did farkall wrong?
21 Nov 2012, 08:09 am
@Ricardo10-57:
the only one demonstrating any delusions here is you…
firstly… you watched it “about a dozen times” but didn’t even know who he stepped on…
the ref may have missed it… but why did our overly officious (at best) citing commissioner not think it worthy of a citing…? he thought eben’s nothing incident was citable… but not flo’s…?
hmmmmm…?
then read my post again… you will see i say quite clearly he stepped on laidlaw’s back… and he just as clearly tried to lessen the weight of his step…
but hey… i only watched it…
perhaps you should ask laidlaw why he didn’t even react to such a heinous crime…?
anyone who has been stomped on or raked with rugby studs knows that it stings like hell… yet laidlaw apparently felt nothing… or not enough to react to it…
so if laidlaw’s reaction is so mute… it contextualises the reaction of you and the british media…
no…?
anyway i don;t need to keep repeating myself… i’ve said my piece… and an quite happy to see what everyone else thinks…
but please feel free to continue…
21 Nov 2012, 08:09 am
@wp_boytjie-61:
and boy isn’t Heyneke reminding us of that in every single interview he does now, he’s got an excuse for everything
21 Nov 2012, 08:11 am
@NZINCHINA-58:
cast your fly upon another stream… perhaps you may have better luck…
how are you china…?
21 Nov 2012, 08:14 am
It would be very disappointing to discover that we have taken to stamping on players like the filthy Ball Sacks.
Very disappointing indeed.
21 Nov 2012, 08:16 am
@ufo-66:
Never been better my friend, all this sighting stuff is rather boring and it’s destroying the game, if your Bokke beat the Poms Meyer gets a pass mark (but only just) for his first season.
21 Nov 2012, 08:17 am
@gunther-67: Flo took the weight off his boot after realising that Murrayfield is not his usual stomping ground.
21 Nov 2012, 08:19 am
@NZINCHINA-68: can’t resist, but “citing”, not “sighting”…..call me spelling nazi now
21 Nov 2012, 08:19 am
@trupisero-60: I thought Mao Zedong was a vegetarian…
All those blossoms blooming…
21 Nov 2012, 08:19 am
@NZINCHINA-65:
Yea it’s been boring. Are the AB’s playing the French on this tour ? That could be good.
21 Nov 2012, 08:19 am
@trupisero-69:
Ahh.
I knew it couldn’t be true.
He’s just no that sort of bloke.
21 Nov 2012, 08:20 am
@ufo-54: Eish… Bad
21 Nov 2012, 08:21 am
@wp_boytjie-61: Good post.
21 Nov 2012, 08:21 am
@trupisero-69: That slight hesitation was when he stopped to think “Damn, should have worn the long sprigs and done some real damage”.
21 Nov 2012, 08:21 am
@trupisero-70:
oh dear can I blame too much Mandarin..
@wp_boytjie-72:
no but we get them 3 times next June so not long to wait
21 Nov 2012, 08:23 am
@NZINCHINA-68:
good to hear…
yeah… they are turning rugby into a game for pansies (or pansy fans)… i would like to see rucking re-allowed… it would clear up a whole lot of issues at the breakdown… figuratively and literally…!!
i have major concerns about heymaker but will support the boks regardless and hope for their and out sake that we do beat the poms and he does get his pass mark…
but have said before the tour this is the game that worries me the most… so am not taking anything for granted…
my only fear is that he will use a ‘pass mark’ to justify his strategy and game plan…
21 Nov 2012, 08:24 am
@Ricardo10-57:
Black pantie, is that you?
21 Nov 2012, 08:24 am
@trupisero-69:
snaaks…
21 Nov 2012, 08:25 am
@trupisero-60:
Howzit Trup, I see skop is projecting again…
I have noticed that meat eaters carry a lot of anger around inside of them.
21 Nov 2012, 08:27 am
@Heavens Game-74:
and unnecessary…
21 Nov 2012, 08:30 am
anyway gents…
work calls…
let’s hope no more despicable dastardly detestable dirty south africans get crucified before saturday afternoon…
later…
21 Nov 2012, 08:31 am
@Slartibartfast-81: hahahaha..all good tjom.
@ufo-78: Rucking would sort out lots of issues. These days deliberately having a chill on the wrong side gets you a penalty or YC at max. In the old days you knew you were taking one for the team and end up with your back or legs looking like the time that screamer with the 1inch nails on New Years eve got hold of you
21 Nov 2012, 08:32 am
@ufo-83: you lost the alliteration there…should have dropped the saffas and gone for d.utchmen
21 Nov 2012, 08:33 am
@ufo-78:
Rucking would be superb, us, you and the Froggies would love to see it return although i’m not so sure Ritchies Mum would be in favour it.
21 Nov 2012, 08:34 am
@trupisero-84:
Poor Ritchie would look like Carpaccio.
21 Nov 2012, 08:46 am
@gunther-87: hahahaha
@NZINCHINA-86: Mercurochrome sales would go up though
21 Nov 2012, 08:52 am
@trupisero-60:
Love this:
“… Wars are started by meat eaters…”
“… Famous vegetarians include Ghandi, Pamela Anderson, Ghengis Khan, Moby and Ellen De Generes. Politicians like Benjamin Franklin, Pot Pol and Socrates were also vegetarians.
This is what is written about Pot Pol:
“..During his time in power he imposed agrarian socialism, forcing urban dwellers to relocate to the countryside to work in collective farms and forced labor projects. The combined effects of forced labor, malnutrition, poor medical care, and executions resulted in the deaths of approximately 21 percent of the Cambodian population. In all, an estimated 1 to 3 million people (out of a population of slightly over 8 million) died as a result of the policies of his three-year premiership”
Great advert for vegetarianism is that fella.
Although I must say this doesn’t sound like Skop to me.
21 Nov 2012, 08:53 am
@trupisero-88:
Indeed they would.
Diehard Ritchie fanboys like the ones we have here would start self-harming themselves in sympathy.
21 Nov 2012, 08:56 am
@stormersboy-89: nah, it wasn’t Skop – he would get right that Pot Pol was actually Pol Pot.
They would make a great couple though.
21 Nov 2012, 08:57 am
right work calls. Later chaps.
21 Nov 2012, 08:57 am
@stormersboy-89:
I read the piece on News24 this morning.
It is obviously a troll post, as the ridiculousness is just too far off the charts.
I especially like the bit about Genghis Khan being a vegetarian. As one guy commented:
“It’s a good thing old Genghis did not have any anger problems, else he might have been a bit of a wild one..”
21 Nov 2012, 08:59 am
@gunther-87:
‘carpaccio’
whatever would the kiwis do if the boks were allowed to ‘point out’ the error of their cheating ways on the field.
21 Nov 2012, 09:04 am
Eben has been targeted here. Despicable pommies are at it again. Thank heavens the adjudicator was Irish. Expect the England flyhalf to act like he is unconscious (ala Wilko) every time he takes a hit. That’s the way the pommies roll.
21 Nov 2012, 09:06 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-94:
the big bad Bokke, Le Roux chewed half of Fittzy’s ear off is that the kind of thing you mean?
21 Nov 2012, 09:07 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-94: well, being the experts synonymous with cheating and thuggery, Im sure the boks and their supporters could “point out” the error of ways..
maybe we can hide it behind the giold watches
oh wait…
21 Nov 2012, 09:09 am
@NZINCHINA-96: hey, in all the years of super rugby only one team has fielded a weakened side to help one of their nations other sides so as to have both qualify for the final..
Marius “that wasnt a knock on morne” jonker, exhibit A, Bulls vs Brumbies 2012..
21 Nov 2012, 09:09 am
@Tacitus-93: Hahaha yes exactly.
I’ve have an extra hamburger for lunch just to make sure i don’t get too aggressive.
21 Nov 2012, 09:13 am
@stormersboy-89:
Adolf Hitler was also a vegetarian.
21 Nov 2012, 09:17 am
@Tacitus-93:
That is utter bullshit. No chance of Genghis Khan being a vegetarian.
The entire Mongol nomadic lifestyle was based on food products – meat and milk (from goats, sheep and horses). To this day they still drink fermented mare’s urine in Mongolia.
Genghis Khan’s grandson Kubla Khan declared “Meat is for men and grass is for animals”.
The Mongols saw themselves as more masculine and manly than the vegetarian Tibetans to their south.
21 Nov 2012, 09:21 am
@WP-Forever-101:
In fact, a strong theory is that “Steak Tartar” originates from the Mongolians. They would place horse steaks under their saddles during a hard day’s riding, at the end of the day the meat was tenderised and they were able to eat the horsemeat raw.
“Tartar” apparently originates from Latin Tartarus, or “Hell”, the nomadic Ta-ta people of central Asia were considered savage and bloodthirsty barbarians by the Romans and they therefore called them “Tatars” linking them to hell.
The Russians learned the dish from the Tatars, and then exported it to Germany, where it appears additions like raw egg, capers and pickles were added.
21 Nov 2012, 09:22 am
@Ricardo10-45: Please post the link, don’t see anything on any british news website regardin this, neither do I see anything on Rugby Planet.
If you want to throw accusations around you are responsible to provide the proof, otherwise you are just a chump.
21 Nov 2012, 09:22 am
@WP-Forever-100:
in-and-out-burger time…
perhaps not…
check out…
http://www.whale.to/b/hitler_was_a_vegetarian_myth..html
gone…
21 Nov 2012, 09:25 am
@ufo-104:
Interesting…I wonder if other bloodthirsty tyrants also suffered from flatulence?
21 Nov 2012, 09:29 am
@WP-Forever-101:
I’m not that far from Inner Mongolia and you’re right they are huge meat eaters, not so sure about the Tibetans though they consume lots of yak meat.
21 Nov 2012, 09:32 am
@WP-Forever-100:
And a Johnny Fartpants.
Like our Fuckadilly.
21 Nov 2012, 09:35 am
hunting is very exciting.
me vs the fish.
and the sharks.
winner takes all.
21 Nov 2012, 09:37 am
@WP-Forever-101:
By the way, guys – I was joking about the fermented mare’s urine.
It’s actually fermented mare’s milk.
21 Nov 2012, 09:37 am
when do we discuss rugby again?
21 Nov 2012, 09:37 am
what is that vegan proposing anyway?
war on meat eaters?
how profoundly enlightened.
sounds like snoeky but far too rational.
21 Nov 2012, 09:38 am
@NZINCHINA-96:
no, i mean like the hole a ball sack player stamped in a uk players head type thing.
how many stitches was it again?
@poppa69-97:
we pale in comparison to you lot.
you kiwis hold the world wide intellectual property rights in that regard.
21 Nov 2012, 09:40 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-112:
the what what what?
21 Nov 2012, 09:42 am
@The Rangerman-111:
so how do you rate the little lamb so far at 10, is he the next DC?
21 Nov 2012, 09:46 am
@NZINCHINA-114: didnt see the game chinabird.
i was hiking a beautiful piece of coastline with no cell reception.
21 Nov 2012, 09:47 am
@poppa69-98:
dont forget old vinnie “i see no reason not to award the try” munro… who was on hand to help the crusaders make it into the playoffs by hook or crook.
munro was the tmo in that game right? who was the assistant ref who gave him a hand?
21 Nov 2012, 09:48 am
@NZINCHINA-113:
do your homework.
21 Nov 2012, 09:48 am
@papaown-110: who is we paleface?
discuss what you want please, no one likes a sleeve tugger.
21 Nov 2012, 09:48 am
Where is this Ricardo dude with a link to the so-called stomp.
And while’s he’s posting links, perhaps he can put one up of his hit single, Daddy. Plenty of sentimental Capeys around to enjoy that number.
21 Nov 2012, 09:49 am
@katman-119: he called eben eden.
he has unfortunately gone full tard.
21 Nov 2012, 09:50 am
Skoppie runs away every time I question him about his all-leather-upper grasshoppers.
21 Nov 2012, 09:59 am
@The Rangerman-115: Wild coast? Which part?
21 Nov 2012, 10:02 am
@WP-Forever-102:
Isn’t it Tartare? In Belgium they refer to it as Fillet Americain. When I was there as a 12 year old I ordered it thinking I was getting a real american steak. The waiter brought it and mixed it at the next table and I wondered what savages these foreigners were until I realised it was for me. My parents made me eat it whilst barely stifling their laughter. Must admit I became hooked.
21 Nov 2012, 10:11 am
@David-123:
I believe the general spelling is now “Steak Tartare”. There are a number of variations, for example Addis in Cape here in Cape Town serves an Ethiopian spiced version thereof called kifto.
In Mexico they marinate it in lime juice.
Your experience as a 12-year-old reminds me of an incident I had when I was about 8 or 9 years old, I ordered a “Lady Steak” and my uncle convinced me it was made from a real lady, I was extremely distraught and upset and tried to get the waiter to change my order…
21 Nov 2012, 10:11 am
What time is the team announcement?
21 Nov 2012, 10:12 am
@katman-119:
speaking of meat-eaters…
seems our ricardo10 character is very fond of pork pies…
just tried to google the incident and/or comments about it
not a single positive search result… on the entire interweb… let alone planetrugby…
only results that appeared mention flo as MOTM…
so much for the storm of protest in england ireland and scotland…??
if ricardo10 can’t provide the link he is in danger of losing any credibility in thought he may have…
21 Nov 2012, 10:13 am
I wonder what the boks backs have been doing during training to end their endzone drought…
21 Nov 2012, 10:13 am
He was never on the hook???
21 Nov 2012, 10:14 am
@The Rangerman-120: Ja not the best way to get credibility.
21 Nov 2012, 10:16 am
@trupisero-122: the otter trail trupi.
storms river mouth to natures valley.
awesome.
out for a while.
21 Nov 2012, 10:16 am
@ufo-126: Yes I was going to jump in and call him a fool but i think that question has already been asked and answered. Besides you did a perfectly good job on that one.
I looked at Planet Rugby as well as he mentions it and nothing. Nada. Zilch. Fokol.
21 Nov 2012, 10:20 am
I also did a search on planet rugby and cam up with nothing. Funny that Ricardo has also disappeared.
21 Nov 2012, 10:21 am
@stormersboy-131:
shot bud…
yeah… hasn’t anyone told him these things are fairly easy to check…??
anyway… done and dusted, as you say…
21 Nov 2012, 10:22 am
@David-123: @WP-Forever-124: Here’s a funny clip from a Mr Bean episode where he orders steak tartare without knowing what it is, and tries to hide it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6QqSxmpRMM
21 Nov 2012, 10:22 am
@katman-132:
21 Nov 2012, 10:23 am
@katman-134:
i remember that one… really hilarious…!!
21 Nov 2012, 10:24 am
Bakkies
you mean a TMO like meuwessen? adjudicating outside of his jurisdiction? that type of thing?
21 Nov 2012, 10:24 am
@The Rangerman-130: Awesome. Grew up there. Going to visit the famdamily over xmas.
21 Nov 2012, 10:25 am
@poppa69-137: But was the right decision made Poopsie?
21 Nov 2012, 10:25 am
my guess a kiwi troll or local ab supporter chumming for hits.
perhaps even a keo plant doing the same.
21 Nov 2012, 10:29 am
@katman-134: My kids love to watch these clips.
He can make doing almost anything seem funny though. It’s a gift.
21 Nov 2012, 10:29 am
trupisero
not the point.
he ruled outside of his powers, finish an klaar.
21 Nov 2012, 10:30 am
@The Rangerman-130:
Enjoy.
I will be starting from Port Edward on 15 December, walking southwest along the coast…
21 Nov 2012, 10:30 am
@The Rangerman-115: @i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-117:
still don’t know what you’re talking about, help a man out
21 Nov 2012, 10:31 am
@poppa69-142: but the correct decision was made, finish and klaar.
21 Nov 2012, 10:32 am
@poppa69-137:
hehehe
you are a larf, pointing out an instance in which a tmo overstepped his authority for the sole purpose of doing the right thing and making what was in fact the correct call as a way of somehow justifying/vindicating some of the many instances in which kiwi adjudicators have, with scant regard for the rules, used their ‘missplaced’ authority to make incorrect/wrong/false/deceitful/dishonest rulings in games which benefitted kiwi teams.
big difference pal.
meuwessen was wrong to have done ‘the right thing’.
munro (is he still in rugby?) was wrong to have ‘intentionally done wrong things’.
21 Nov 2012, 10:34 am
trupisero
regardless, it wasnt his call to make. that’s akin to cheating, and I’d a kiwi TMO did the same thing it would add fuel to the conspiracy fire.
strange you guys excuse his cheating though?
21 Nov 2012, 10:34 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-146:
Bakkies just as well he made the “right” call otherwise you’d be 7 losses from the last 7 tests, 1 from 7 doesn’t look quite so bad
21 Nov 2012, 10:35 am
@WP-Forever-143: Dope trail?
21 Nov 2012, 10:36 am
@NZINCHINA-144:
no, i wont.
earn your right to criticise our rugby.
i dont ask for handouts when crticising yours.
21 Nov 2012, 10:37 am
@poppa69-147: bollocks and you know it.
21 Nov 2012, 10:37 am
so let me get this right
if someone rules on an incidence of play that the laws stare he isn’t entitled to, it’s okay because the ruling went SAs way.
I imagine if the ruling was against SA your views would differ
fair enough, I realise the worlds out to get SA and following the rules is hardly synonymous with SA rugby
justice 4 SA I say.
21 Nov 2012, 10:38 am
@NZINCHINA-148:
we’ve been over this.
yours is a filthy lot of cheats, that’s the reason for our recent misfortune.
21 Nov 2012, 10:40 am
@poppa69-152:
what time is it over there?
you’re not as sharp as you usually are.
your standard has dropped.
21 Nov 2012, 10:43 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-153:
you and Meyer are cut from the same cloth, he’s also rolling out the excuses as well as to why he can’t beat the Ab’s no doubt he’ll make the cheating call 3 or 4 years into his tenure when he’s 0 or 1 from 6/8 attempts
21 Nov 2012, 10:45 am
@NZINCHINA-155: Seeing you have a keen aya on the future and its happenings. Care to share Friday’s lotto numbers with me.
21 Nov 2012, 10:45 am
aya = eye
21 Nov 2012, 10:47 am
Glad for Eben. Plays is hard and to the man without beeing a poepol. Good on you young man. This is one player that has changed my opinion of him this season. The humble pie needs a cold beer though.
21 Nov 2012, 10:47 am
So some big Rambo carnivore goes onto a news website and gets a shock to his solar plexus and his conscience starts ricking so he puts it out here on the meat eaters rugby forum for the self righteous to explore
well here what some vegetarian athletes have to say about it
Carl Lewis
(Born July 1, 1961)
US track and field athlete; nine-time Olympic gold medalist
“Can a world-class athlete get enough protein from a vegetarian diet to compete? I’ve found that a person does not need protein from meat to be a successful athlete. In fact, my best year of track competition was the first year I ate a vegan diet. Moreover, by continuing to eat a vegan diet, my weight is under control, I like the way I look (I know that sounds vain, but all of us want to like the way we look), I enjoy eating more, and I feel great…
I remember vividly making the decision in July of 1990 to become a vegan. I was competing in Europe and ate a meal of Spanish sausage on a Saturday and on the following Monday started eating vegan.”
Carl Lewis, “Introduction,” in Very Vegetarian by Jannequin Bennett, 2001
“…[Y]ou think athletes have the best diets. Most athletes have the worst diet in the world, and… they compete in spite of it…
…Everyone says ‘Where’s your protein.’ Well I ate tons of lentils, loved beans, had the juice; I did the things that I needed to do to replace what you would get with this tremendous amounts of meat that most people eat.”
“Carl Lewis: Olympic Medals Through the Vegan Diet,” http://www.youtube.com (accessed Nov. 28, 2011)
Mac Danzig
(Born Jan. 2, 1980)
US mixed martial arts fighter; winner of Spike TV’s The Ultimate Fighter (2007)
“At a ripped 5-foot-9, 155 pounds, Danzig is a rising star in mixed martial arts. He fights under the direction of the Xtreme Couture gym in Las Vegas, training with some of the biggest names in the sport. To succeed in mixed martial arts, competitors must wield explosive strength, the kind typically linked to high-protein foods. When your job is to clobber other men into submission, a meaty diet seems like a given.
‘I believed what everybody said,’ Danzig confirmed, ‘that you need animal protein in your diet if you’re going to train hard and win.’
That path butted up against beliefs he’d held since childhood. Raised by his single mom in western Pennsylvania, Danzig loved animals and has owned pets throughout his life…
As his career evolved, so did his diet. He’d already cut out all dairy products years ago, as they’d given him health problems, all the way up to debilitating ear infections, sinus problems and even vertigo. He then stopped eating mammals entirely. But poultry and fish remained staples of his diet. In 2004, he took the next step, cutting out poultry and fish and going entirely vegan…
Though Danzig at first feared a meatless diet would hurt his performance, he now says it has helped him recover faster from fights and workouts…
Other challenges remain. Though his training partners and fellow competitors have respected his dietary decisions, some MMA fans have lashed out at Danzig.
‘I’ve noticed a lot of negative things said about me, saying ‘Who does he think he is?” Danzig explained. ‘So many people who are vegetarian or especially vegan, really wear it on their sleeve, like they’re part of some exclusive club. That’s not my style.’”
Jonah Keri, “Who Says You Have to Eat Meat to Be a Successful Athlete?,” espn.go.com, July 22, 2008
Martina Navratilova
(Born Oct. 18, 1956)
Czech-born US tennis player; winner of 59 Grand Slam titles; second player in modern tennis to win 1,000 matches; *** rights activist
“Navratilova believes her whole-foods diet of raw fruits and vegetables, some rice, pasta and a few grains is helping extend the twilight of her professional tennis career. ‘I’ve noticed that I have an easier time getting going in the morning, and a faster recovery after a tough workout. My muscle cramps have lessened. During all of last year, I had six ibuprofen pills. Most tennis players eat them like candy.
Navratilova always has been a little different, from her left-handedness to her outspoken views on politics and her own homosexuality. She now embraces a life that is more introspective than most athletes’; her vegetarianism, for example, isn’t for health or political correctness. ‘I did it for the animals. How can you have one animal for a pet and another for lunch?’”
Mike Tyson
(Born June 30, 1966)
Retired US boxer; former undisputed heavyweight champion
“Details [Magazine]: I hear you’re vegan now.
Mike Tyson: Yeah, it’s been eight months with this vegan stuff, but I get these explosions of energy. I don’t know how long they last, but they’re like explosions. So powerful.
Details: Is it a calmer energy?
Mike Tyson: Oh, I don’t know if I’d go that far. I don’t think it’s been long enough for that kind of Zen s**t.
Details: So you’re going to go the rest of your life without eating a candy bar?
Mike Tyson: Maybe so. I’m pretty f**king extreme.
Details: Not even a Baby Ruth?
Mike Tyson: Oh, man, that’s the best. Chocolate and peanuts. Nah. I ate, like, the tiniest piece of meat, and I woke up violently sick. It was vicious pain. I was throwing up. And I realized meat’s become a poison for me now.
Details: You mentioned your upcoming pigeon-racing reality show on Animal Planet. Your first fight was with a bigger kid over his mistreatment of one of your birds.
Mike Tyson: Gary Flowers. Got one of my birds and [wrings his hands and yanks]. A**hole.”
Ivan Solotaroff, “Everything You Think You Know About Mike Tyson Is Wrong,” Details Magazine, Aug. 2010
21 Nov 2012, 10:48 am
Interesting too that yesterday the citing was front page news on the Telegraph’s rugby section. Today however, not only are they not reporting on Eben being given the all clear, the original story has disappeared.
Those poms….
21 Nov 2012, 10:53 am
@poppa69-152: Go inside, the rain is fu.cking with your Nokia’s buttons.
21 Nov 2012, 10:54 am
@NZINCHINA-155:
i wouldn’t bet on it, boet.
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE-156:
no, the only thing predictable about them is the extent of their dishonesty, so if its a bet on what reechee will do next, then china’s your man.
mind you, even i could tell you that.
j
21 Nov 2012, 10:54 am
@skopdiekan-159:
Interesting post
But Martina did munch on meat didn’t she?
21 Nov 2012, 10:57 am
@nortierd-163: She dont it meat but she sure likes the bone………..
21 Nov 2012, 10:58 am
So it’s Official then:
Butt Head Eben is not yet Officially a Gouger.
Any bets on how long it will take ?
21 Nov 2012, 10:59 am
Speaking of butt heads………………………………………How goes it bakkies!
21 Nov 2012, 11:00 am
@nortierd-163:
She don’t eat meat but she sure likes the bone.
21 Nov 2012, 11:01 am
@WP-Forever-167: Snap!! 24 cold ones please.
21 Nov 2012, 11:03 am
@WP-Forever-167:
ha ha
She doesn’t like the bone, unless it’s a pelvic bone
Anyway, to keep a pet one day and eat it the next? Must be the Chinese she’s referring to.
No one I know keeps a sheep and cow as a pet
21 Nov 2012, 11:03 am
Some famous vegetarians
Clement of Alexandria Theologian Greece
Charles Darwin Naturalist United Kingdom
Ralph Waldo Emerson Writer, philosopher United States
Henry Ford Founder of Ford Motor Company United States
Michael Jackson Singer United States
Steve Jobs Co-founder of Apple Inc. United States
John the Baptist Itinerant preacher and a major religious figure Roman Empire
Abraham Lincoln 16th President of the United States United States
Bob Marley Musician Jamaica
Sir Isaac Newton Scientist United Kingdom
Albert Schweitzer Music, philanthropy, theology Germany
William Shakespeare Playwright United Kingdom
Socrates Philosopher Greece
Henry David Thoreau Philosopher United States
Mark Twain United States
Voltaire Writer, philosopher, playwright France
Richard Wagner Composer Germany
H. G. Wells Novelist United Kingdom
21 Nov 2012, 11:04 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-162:
I would, (bet on it).
He’s already 0 from 2.
NZC’s prediction of 1 from 6 looking Good.
21 Nov 2012, 11:05 am
@skopdiekan-159: Morning porkchop.
Carl Lewis certainly had enough “juice” in his career. The taste of Holyfield’s ear must have put Mike off meat.
So we have 4 examples of veggie lovers who have succeeded in sports. Would that be because of their diet or in spite of it?
21 Nov 2012, 11:07 am
@cane-171:
Could well be, we’ll accept 1 win over the AB’s in his tenure, as long as it’s in a knock out match in the WC.
You can have all the rest
21 Nov 2012, 11:07 am
@skopdiekan-170:
How could anybody know John the Baptist was a Vegan?
You could be stretching credibility here Skoppie.
21 Nov 2012, 11:08 am
@skopdiekan-170: Remind us why it is savage and barbaric to kill animasl for their flesh but not so bad to wear their hides on our feet, round our waists and to stick our money in. I could do with a larf, and the old “leather is a by-product and therefore okay” story never fails.
21 Nov 2012, 11:08 am
Bakkies. trupisero
seeing as you guy shave moved to insults as a means of deflection, I’ll accept that as an admission that I’m right.
cheers.
21 Nov 2012, 11:09 am
@nortierd-173:
That’s just plain nasty nortie.
21 Nov 2012, 11:10 am
@katman-175: Humans are faktap indeed. We kill the animals for their leather, we make wallets from the leather and then we kill each other for the wallets……..
21 Nov 2012, 11:12 am
@cane-177:
Lol
21 Nov 2012, 11:12 am
Cane
Nortie is HM
he too is already talking about the WC.
21 Nov 2012, 11:13 am
All this vegan talk makes me want to go out and buy a steak the size of my table, light a fire and do a nice rare steak with a Jimmy’s basting sauce. In fact it must be so rare I’ll chow a bit and ride the rest home!!!
21 Nov 2012, 11:13 am
Animals eat animals.
They are no better than us.
Why should we feel guilty?
21 Nov 2012, 11:13 am
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE-178: Indeed. It would actually be slightly more efficient to just make wallets from each other.
21 Nov 2012, 11:14 am
@cane-166:
hehehe
hello cane, it goes well except i’m a little busy of late.
how goes you, you old doos?
@cane-171:
rude awakening coming you kiwis way, caner
rude awakening indeed.
21 Nov 2012, 11:14 am
@cane-182: Don’t get Skoppie started on those immoral great white sharks.
21 Nov 2012, 11:16 am
@poppa69-180:
They pin all their hopes of glory on the WC.
And what do we do.
Brycie………………………………..that’s what.
Now who are the stupid ones here Popps.
Ask yourself that.
21 Nov 2012, 11:17 am
cane
hehehe. sir Brycie ” best ref in nz” Lawrence. canonization is forthcoming.
21 Nov 2012, 11:18 am
@poppa69-176:
what insults?
cheers, pops.
21 Nov 2012, 11:18 am
All of those complaining about the Poms and their under-handed citing tactics, please come back and remind us all the next time we have one of these SA-must-go-north threads. It’s not just the Kiwis and Aussies that are out to get you, it’s everyone, and the Europeans have more money and more power. Watch your backs!
21 Nov 2012, 11:20 am
@katman-185: @skopdiekan-170:
According to Sir David Attenborough, we humans have the teeth of carnivores.
This is what we are.
21 Nov 2012, 11:20 am
@poppa69-176: oh, I haven’t even started to insult you yet.
Go do your rounds now.
21 Nov 2012, 11:21 am
They need to move up in class a bit if they want to win another RWC. Gold watches are so ‘yesterday’. Refs are professionals today and have higher expectations.
21 Nov 2012, 11:22 am
@trupisero-191: Collecting bed pans in old age homes?
21 Nov 2012, 11:23 am
@aliboy-192: To get into Bryce’s good books is easy……1 year’s subscription to Landbou Weekblad……sorted
21 Nov 2012, 11:25 am
@skopdiekan-159:
How can Mike Tyson be a vegetarian as he has threatened to eat Lennox Lewis’ heart and also his kids? That was before Lewis knock the living daylights out of him.
21 Nov 2012, 11:29 am
@katman-175:
Fuckadilly has converted to crocks.
He’s customised them with steel toecaps for his outhouse construction business.
21 Nov 2012, 11:29 am
@trupisero-191: hahaha is that it?
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE-193: have you soiled your khaki shorts again..? lol
21 Nov 2012, 11:29 am
Enough of the vege debate. For every famous/successful vegetarian there are 100′s of famous/successful non-veges. So what do the facts really prove???
21 Nov 2012, 11:32 am
@gunther-196: Steel production much too bad on the planet. Them be coconut shells.
21 Nov 2012, 11:35 am
@aliboy-198: you are what you eat
21 Nov 2012, 11:35 am
@aliboy-198: If you don’t eat meat you only have a 1% chance of becoming famous/successful?
21 Nov 2012, 11:39 am
Mohandas Gandhi wrote extensively about vegetarianism and once said that “I do feel that spiritual progress does demand at some stage that we should cease to kill our fellow creatures for the satisfaction of our bodily wants.”
Gautama Buddha may not have been the first vegetarian but he was certainly one of the earliest prominent figures to talk about giving up meat. His reasoning for avoiding meat was eloquently summed up when he explained that “the eating of meat extinguishes the seed of great compassion.”
Pythagoras is famous among mathematicians however, as an outspoken advocate of animal rights in ancient Greece. According to Ovid, Pythagoras believed that “animals share with us the privilege of having a soul” and also that “for as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love.”
Like many Greek philosophers of the day, Plato, too, was a vegetarian. He believed that as a society begins to eat more meat, it requires more doctors. This not totally unfounded opinion led him to make some famous statements about keeping a natural diet, notably that “the gods created certain kinds of beings to replenish our bodies…they are the trees and the plants and the seeds.”
Not much is known about the personal life of Leonardo Da Vinci. His love of animals, however, is well documented. From letters and writings, historians know that Da Vinci was a vegetarian who would buy caged birds then set them free. He explained this practice, saying “if man wants freedom why keep birds and animals in cages? Truly man is the king of beasts, for his brutality exceeds them. We live by the death of others. We are burial places! I have since an early age abjured the use of meat.”
Voltaire was an advocate of civil rights and freedom. He also believed in the virtues of vegetarianism. He once wrote that “men fed upon carnage, and drinking strong drinks, have all an impoisoned and arid blood which drives them mad in a hundred different ways.”
In addition to his writings on non-violence, Leo Tolstoy’s advocacy of vegetarianism led to his friendship with Mohandas Gandhi. He wrote several essays about vegetarianism, but perhaps never more compellingly than when he said “flesh eating is simply immoral, as it involves the performance of an act, which is contrary to moral feeling: killing.”
George Bernard Shaw, one of Ireland’s most famous playwrights, became a vegetarian at 25 and strongly opposed eating meat from that point on. Commenting on becoming a vegetarian, he once said that “I was a cannibal for twenty-five years. For the rest I have been a vegetarian.”
It is believed that Albert Einstein ate meat most of his life but became a vegetarian during the last years before his death. Even so, he was always a supporter of the vegetarian diet and once said that “I have always eaten animal flesh with a somewhat guilty conscience.” More powerfully, Einstein believed that “nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.”
21 Nov 2012, 11:40 am
@gunther-196: That’s not a pleasant image at all. Crocs are designed with massive holes all around. Can you imagine the filth he must slop through on a daily basis?
21 Nov 2012, 11:42 am
@katman-203:
you mean on keo?
21 Nov 2012, 11:44 am
@gunther-204: That too. I wear my wellies when blogging – no exceptions.
21 Nov 2012, 11:44 am
@cane-171:
hello Caner, they won’t beat us at home and we have their number in Africa, am I being too generous, could we skunk them?
21 Nov 2012, 11:45 am
@Robzim-195: read the context he became vegetarian in 2010
21 Nov 2012, 11:46 am
“If God did not intend for us to eat animals, then why did he make them out of meat?”
John Cleese
21 Nov 2012, 11:47 am
The common trend with the famous vegetarians is they all lived in the pre McDonalds, Spur etc. era and time.
Damned if I going to give up a juicy T-bone for a cabbage, but that’s just me.
Respect for those who so wish and follow the lifestyle, but it’s a good thing that people’s tastes differ
21 Nov 2012, 11:47 am
@skopdiekan-202: Where does lions, eagles, snakes, frogs and sharks fit into all this?
21 Nov 2012, 11:48 am
@Beertjie-200: Hmm, do I want to be an animal with some brain, or a head of cabbage? I’ll get back to you once I have thought about it.
I live with 3 vegetarians. Great choice if it works for you, but none of them are smarter, stronger, wealthier, or otherwise more successful than me. I also know through them a whole lot more vegetarians. On average they are less smart/successful than our other friends. Bottom line is that any healthy diet will allow you to reach your potential, and excluding meat won’t enhance that potential any further.
21 Nov 2012, 11:49 am
@nortierd-209:
You haven’t lived until you’ve tasted skoppies seared tofu with bernaise sauce washed down with fairtrade parsnip wine.
Nectar of the gods.
21 Nov 2012, 11:50 am
the big Rambo flesh eaters brought up the subject because its obviously rankling their brain so now that the truth starts staring them in the face they wanna pretend they were born and designed as carnivores when the reality of it is they became cannibal but that is not how nature designed them
they reckon rugby and vegetarianism don’t mix, so they prefer to turn a blind eye to fact, meanwhile they the ones that are concerned with its relevance, because if any one of these hypocrites were truly concerned about animals in any way whatsoever they would not eat them.
21 Nov 2012, 11:50 am
We do also occasionally indulge in some salad, or chicken as it’s known elsewhere
21 Nov 2012, 11:50 am
@aliboy-211: that is why i do not eat fruit and nuts
21 Nov 2012, 11:51 am
Hey Poep69, when talk is of eating meat we mean as in roast lamb not what you perverts do with sheep in NZ.
21 Nov 2012, 11:52 am
@skopdiekan-213:
And what is the stance on insect protein?
Is it in order if I eat termites and caterpillars?
21 Nov 2012, 11:53 am
@NZINCHINA-206:
To be fair NZC, they are in a rebuilding phase.
But hey,
0 from 8 looks a fair prediction to me. We are already a quarter the way there.
21 Nov 2012, 11:53 am
@skopdiekan-213: Tell us about your hush puppies. Did that cow donate her hide to cobbler science?
21 Nov 2012, 11:53 am
Veganism requires more land to come under agricultural farming which in turn means more destruction of forests and other natural habitats. The world cannot all turn to veganism or not to eat meat. It’s a ridiculous proposition. We are omnivores.
Everyone to their own but do not deride those who choose to have some meat in their diet.
21 Nov 2012, 11:54 am
@husky-216:
C’mon Dusty you must have had a Bokke before they’re easy game
21 Nov 2012, 11:54 am
@husky-216: good one , original and hilarious…. you do your countrymen proud with your rapier like wit..
21 Nov 2012, 11:55 am
@skopdiekan-213: Able to find any top flight rugby players who are veggies?
21 Nov 2012, 11:55 am
@skopdiekan-213:
That is true
Rugby to the majority, myself included, is not just about 80 minutes on a Saturday.
It’s also about the braai, biltong etc. that goes with it.
Does it make us wrong? No
I won’t look down on someone who prefers a tin of baked beans on toast while watching a game, to each his or her own I say.
21 Nov 2012, 11:57 am
@poppa69-222: as do you. With half of it.
21 Nov 2012, 11:58 am
@trupisero-225: ooh another intellectual giant joins the fray
wonderful, meatheads trying to be funny
its all double d.utch to me anyways..
21 Nov 2012, 11:58 am
@trupisero-223:
Bull (Mark) Allen,
Taranaki, Hurricanes and All Blacks.
21 Nov 2012, 11:59 am
@cane-218:
i see the old we don’t mind losing 7 if the 8th is in a WC knockout game line is being wheeled out
21 Nov 2012, 11:59 am
@husky-216: So tell us again! What was it that made those funny little antelope type creatures learn to jump like they do???
21 Nov 2012, 12:00 pm
@trupisero-225:
he’s returning serve.
21 Nov 2012, 12:01 pm
Lions, Cheetahs, Eagles etc : They don’t make a conscious decision to ‘want’ meat. It’s inherent:
Meat = high quality protein = optimal performance and functioning = survival.
21 Nov 2012, 12:02 pm
My ex wife was a man eating vegan.
21 Nov 2012, 12:02 pm
@cane-227:
Did he play?
I always thought he was there to warm the bench for a decade while Fitzy played.
21 Nov 2012, 12:03 pm
@mikeybrass-220: one huge fat disillusion excuse and justification.. in short utter bullshit, if mankind would eat the food nature designed for his consumption there would be no senseless merciless killing and war and any truly educated environmentalist will tell you it takes far less earth resource to sustain vegetarian diet from a land use perspective than to raise beef and animals for slaughter.. far less..
21 Nov 2012, 12:03 pm
I don’t eat vegetarian. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63NNuG-6-hQ
21 Nov 2012, 12:04 pm
Not eating meat is a decision. Eating meat is an instinct.
21 Nov 2012, 12:04 pm
@trupisero-223: I doubt it.
A USN shake can only give you so much high quality protein.
21 Nov 2012, 12:06 pm
@cane-227: Well there we go. That’s one.
@gunther-230: Surprised he hasn’t double faulted as yet.
21 Nov 2012, 12:10 pm
@trupisero-238: so trupi, I see youve continued to deflect from my point about meuswessen..
fair enough…
21 Nov 2012, 12:11 pm
@WP-Forever-217: why you want to degenerate yourself to the level of an insect eater.. humans eat everything from crawling insects and goggas and scavengers on the sea bed like lobsters and crayfish to frogs legs to eggs (which only reptiles and some cannibal birds eat) to eating dogs and cats and horses and cows and sheep and goats and fish and whales and dolphin and sharks..
strangely you would be abhorred to eat a dog or a shark or a whale or a dolphin but you have no qualms about devouring a cow or a goat or a marlin and you would find it difficult swallowing a cockroach but you don’t mind swallowing a prawn or lobster or crayfish, what kind of dumb hypocritical flesh eater are you, up in arms at eating and killing rhino’s and great white shark, but swallow the brain of a sheep and the testicles of a bull or the tongue of a cow or the backside of a goat with zero compunction or concern for their suffering whatsoever.
21 Nov 2012, 12:11 pm
@skopdiekan-234:
Personally, I believe more people have been killed and wars started due to religion than meat eating.
How are we to know precisely which food nature intended for us to eat?
21 Nov 2012, 12:12 pm
@cane-227: Aren’t you telling porkies Caner? Did Bull (great name for a veggie) not do KFC ads?
21 Nov 2012, 12:14 pm
@poppa69-239: Poopsie, read the posts carefully. maybe you will find an answer there somewhere. If not, well, too bad.
21 Nov 2012, 12:17 pm
@skopdiekan-240: Come on, Skoppie, for the third time, give us your justification for leather shoes, belts, wallets etc. I can’t remember, was it the “leather is a sort of by-product of an animal that was actually killed for something else” nonsense?
21 Nov 2012, 12:18 pm
@skopdiekan-240: Only reptiles and cannibal birds eat eggs?
David Attenborough you are not.
21 Nov 2012, 12:19 pm
@trupisero-243: trupi, i dont really care whether he got the call right or not, it wasnt his call to make.
he cheated…
21 Nov 2012, 12:19 pm
@katman-244: Its fake leather. No fake animals were harmed in its production.
21 Nov 2012, 12:20 pm
@trupisero-245:
He is now completely confused.
I suspect an iron defficiency.
21 Nov 2012, 12:21 pm
@skopdiekan-234: “if mankind would eat the food nature designed for his consumption” – Man – Sharp teeth, single gut. Most purely grazing creatures – Grinding teeth, multiple guts. What are the features that nature gave us that show we were designed to be vegetarian?? Another thing I have noticed about your average vegetarian is the amount of ‘supplements’ they buy and consume. I know that you don’t need them if you have access to enough different food sources (often imported as you can’t grow them all), but surely massive consumption of imported foods and artificial supplements to keep your diet ‘healthy’ would suggest that maybe nature didn’t quite design is to be that way.
21 Nov 2012, 12:21 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-231: go and kill and slit its throat drain its blood skin its skin off its flesh, then slice it up and devour it.. and while you slit its throat or put a bullet through its unsuspecting head look straight into its recognizing eyes while you do it..don’t go to pick and pay and buy it wrapped up in cellophane to hide your conscience from the action.. I bet very few this big Rambo flesh eaters would be having braaivleis every Saturday if they had to do the slaughtering themselves.
You wouldn’t eat your rottweiler but you eat the sheep or cow, you obviously confused about who you are and who the rottweiler is and who the sheep or cow is otherwise your conscience would actually know wtf its doing.
21 Nov 2012, 12:27 pm
@skopdiekan-240:
Well, insect protein is pretty much the most environmentally-sustainable way to continue feeding humans.
It will have the lowest environmental impact. If you truly are an environmentalist, embrace insect protein.
There will be 9 billion people in the world by 2050, and people are eating more and more meat. Cows, pigs, sheep contribute a crapload of greenhouse gases.
Insects, however, are cold-blooded and convert plant-matter into protein extremely efficiently. Farming insects produces much less greenhouse gas.
Beef require about 10kg of feed for every 1kg of meat. Pigs, 3-5kg of feed per 1 kg of meat. Chickens? 2kg per 1 kg. Fish require about 1.5kg feed per 1kg meat.
But insects require something like 1.1kg of feed for every 1kg of meat.
21 Nov 2012, 12:27 pm
@poppa69-246:
pops, the ref asked for more info….
the tmo gave it……
technically incorrect…….
but morally first class
21 Nov 2012, 12:27 pm
@poppa69-246: @poppa69-246: Wouldn’t it then make the ref the cheat who took inadmissible evidence into account?
21 Nov 2012, 12:29 pm
@aliboy-249: you seem to ‘notice’ a whole lot of things…
I don’t and never have eaten supplements and haven’t eaten meat fish or eggs since age 17, that is for the last 2/3rds of my life.. 90% of rural Chinese and Indian population are vegetarian from birth to death, due to the religions they follow not advocating flesh eating, they don’t have a problem with sustainability or dietary deficiency, most of them will out live you and have far less doctors bills to show for it.
Flesh eating is derived from out of cannibalism and hunting for flesh food whereas the higher civilized notion of humanitarian principle is to follow the way of traditional bread basket civilization which cultivated its food from the land, not killed the animals that share the resources we do.
Any human with any meager principle of compassion for living creatures would not eat them.. you want to find a whole lot of justification for doing so.. which in reality is a false justification not a true one.
21 Nov 2012, 12:30 pm
@skopdiekan-250: The Rottweiler keeps blokes like you from knocking on the front door. The sheep and cow not so much.
21 Nov 2012, 12:32 pm
@skopdiekan-234: Why do you feel the need to degenerate what others do?
You’re free to believe whatever fairytales you wish, that’s not the point.
21 Nov 2012, 12:32 pm
@WP-Forever-251: The planteaters contribute plenty greenhouse gasses through their flatulence.
Even old Skop is a master farter.
21 Nov 2012, 12:34 pm
The intentional cultivation of insects and edible arthropods for human food, referred to as minilivestock, is now emerging in animal husbandry as an ecologically sound concept. Several analyses have found entomophagy to be a more environmentally-friendly alternative to traditional animal livestocking.
The methods of matter assimilation and nutrient transport used by insects make insect cultivation a more efficient method of converting consumed matter into biomass than rearing traditional livestock; more than 10 times more plant nutrients are needed to produce one kilogram of beef than one kilogram of insect biomass. The spatial usage and water requirements are only a fraction of that required to produce the same mass of food with cattle farming. Production of 150g of grasshopper meat requires only a few litres of water compared to the 3290 litres required to produce 150g of beef.
Insects reproduce at a faster rate than traditional livestock; a female cricket can lay from 1,200 to 1,500 eggs in three to four weeks, while for beef the ratio is four breeding animals for each market animal produced. This gives house crickets a true food conversion efficiency almost 20 times higher than beef. For this reason and because of the essential amino acids content of insects, some people, on ECOLOGICAL grounds, propose the development of entomophagy to provide a major source of protein in human nutrition.
21 Nov 2012, 12:34 pm
@WP-Forever-251: nonsense man just eat what nature designed for you to eat and the entire problem solved… snakes and birds eat insects and eggs, humans are supposed to eat fresh fruit and grains and vegetables
go back to genesis if you don’t believe me
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
21 Nov 2012, 12:35 pm
@WP-Forever-251:
Gunther has the answer.
thanks to James Sholto Douglas.
@trupisero-257:
Eskom are hooking him up to a turbine as part of their commitment to sustainable energy.
21 Nov 2012, 12:39 pm
@WP-Forever-258: No man. Just look how much happier and stronger Simba became when he converted from grubs to meat.
21 Nov 2012, 12:39 pm
@skopdiekan-259:
And then they went and ate the wrong fruit from the wrong tree.
Can’t recall ***** changing the fish to fruit when the masses had to be fed.
21 Nov 2012, 12:40 pm
@aliboy-249: Not sure I can agree with the what-nature-intended argument. Sounds like the same argument against *** marriage and blacks voting. I’d like to think we are distinct from other animals in that we can decide what we eat or don’t eat, what we kill or let live, or whether we help others that can’t possibly help us back. Nature apparently intended that we breed as much as possible and over run the planet but that doesn’t make it right.
@skopdiekan-259: Quoting the bible doesn’t really help your argument
Signed by a leather-shoe wearing, meat eating rugby fan who understands the vegetarian side of the story but just happens to quite like meat some days
21 Nov 2012, 12:41 pm
@mikeybrass-256: you are misinformed and falsely educated even the fathers of the disciplines you follow such as Socrates, Plato, Darwin, Newton, Pythagoras, Einstein and maybe 1000′s more of any real conscious humane humanitarian and true scientist would not eat flesh for their food.. yet you the new kid on the block reckon your instinctual blood lust was nature given..
If anyone is under abject disillusionment and ill informed intelligentsia it is the new breed of stupefied academic who actually knows pretty much fokol about who the human being actually is. rather ask the ancients they knew far better than you do
21 Nov 2012, 12:42 pm
@skopdiekan-259:
Ah, I see you appear to be applying the Torah literally now.
Let’s see, that would include a list of banned foods more or less of the following:
1) amphibians (frogs);
2) reptiles (crocodiles, snakes)
3) bats
4) eagles, vultures, ospreys
5) ostriches
6) camels
7) shellfish, lobster, shrimp, crawfish and other animals living in water but not with fins and scales;
8) eel, catfish;
9) elephant;
10) insects (except locusts)
11) pork;
12) rabbit.
21 Nov 2012, 12:43 pm
@gunther-260:
I like it.
Of course, the hydroponics could be used for other, more recreational, purposes…
21 Nov 2012, 12:43 pm
i do have a problem with abattoirs and slaughter houses… disgusting is the only word to describe them and a visit would sway the resolve of all but the hardest core carnivores…
i also have a problem with the fact the ranches do not provide shelter for their cattle, sheep etc… in the bush when it is hot all animals try to get into shade… this is apparently not a right of domestic animals… i believe if you wanna farm animals you should provide shelter for each and every one…
i don’t have the same issue with hunting… if it is conducted under stringent guidelines and a very strict one-shot-kill rule… if you’re not good enough to GUARANTEE an one-shot-kill you should not be allowed to shoot a wild animal…
thing is the animals live a good natural life and a quick clean death is all any animal (humans included) could ever want…
when you think about it… every single wild animal dies a ‘miserable’ death by injury, starvation or predation… there are very few exceptions and most will go via predation as soon an injury, sickness, old age or young age makes you a lekker easy lunch… maybe elephants are generally exceptions to this rule but lions have been known to kill them… and i’ve even seen lions on a hippo kill (but not the actual kill)…
having the life torn off you in pieces or suffocated out of you buy a lion or leopard hanging onto your throat, while relatively quick, still can’t be the most pleasant ticket to ride… a bullet through the heart/lungs will be way quicker and less ‘traumatic’…
so as long as hunting is NOT canned and is conducted under the watchful eye of an experienced and ‘ethical’ hunter… i have less issue with hunting than livestock farming…
21 Nov 2012, 12:44 pm
Man, I would love a burger right about now.
21 Nov 2012, 12:45 pm
@gonzo-263: it don’t help my argument whatsoever it may help those who are avid church goers and yet believe God gave them flesh to eat so they justified in doing so.. its just another angle but any one concerned to follow his conscience would not kill another living breathing intelligent sentient being for his food… it simply is averse to being civilized because it isn’t.
21 Nov 2012, 12:45 pm
@skopdiekan-259: What about this then?
Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
21 Nov 2012, 12:46 pm
@skopdiekan-259: Quoting “God” from Genesis, are we? Well that settles it then, I guess.
But since we’re on that book, how about the same Genesis, a couple of chapters later, where the big guy says: “Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you.”
Or do you think he meant moving as in swaying in the breeze?
21 Nov 2012, 12:47 pm
@ufo-267:
If it’s any consolation, I only buy organic and free-range meats.
I also firmly believe that if you decide to eat meat, you must be able to kill your meat yourself.
21 Nov 2012, 12:47 pm
@WP-Forever-265: just eat what you supposed to eat.. and a beef burger is not it.
21 Nov 2012, 12:50 pm
Oh my word.
I just discovered you get vegan clothes and vegan shoes now.
21 Nov 2012, 12:51 pm
@katman-271: Even better is this one:
One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.
21 Nov 2012, 12:51 pm
Good gravy slat my om met ‘n nat vis OMG
LOOK AT THE COVER OF THE MAG!!!!!
21 Nov 2012, 12:52 pm
@trupisero-270: @katman-271:
I don’t follow the human written and poorly translated accounts of dead manuscripts and saints as my principles of living.. perhaps some others like you do that is why I quoted Genesis..
John the Baptist and J’esus were vegetarian,, and so where all J’esus disciples but that is another argument… fact is anyone with any meager objection to animal suffering eating meat is bullshitting himself to the utmost.. he is a hypocrite and finding justification to slaughter a conscious breathing intelligent being for his biological sustenance.
21 Nov 2012, 12:53 pm
@WP-Forever-272:
i don’t judge anyone on this issue…whether herbivores or carnivores… we must each do what is right for us… hopefully after a little thought…
was just explaining my own moral dilemma…
i do believe animals should have the same rights to a ‘decent’ life (and death) and dignity… as us higher-apes…
and believe the first nation peoples from around the world have the best philosophy of only taking what they need… and thanking the creatures they eat and celebrating the life taken so that their own may continue…
21 Nov 2012, 12:53 pm
@ufo-267:
UFO, you a GSiter?
21 Nov 2012, 12:55 pm
What’s a GSiter
21 Nov 2012, 12:55 pm
@trupisero-275:
Well, if you look at our ancestors around 2 million years ago, there was Paranthropus boisei and **** habilis.
Paranthropus boisei only ate plants, while **** habilis was an omnivore.
**** habilis, the omnivore, ate fresh carrion and bone marrow amongst other things, this allowed them to develop much larger brains than P. boisei and as a result they became smarter and developed social behaviour.
Paranthropus boisei eventually died out, H. habilis did not.
21 Nov 2012, 12:56 pm
@skopdiekan-264: Every heard of isotopic analysis?
Again, why do you feel the need to degenerate those who hold views different to your own?
21 Nov 2012, 12:58 pm
@skopdiekan-254: I do ‘notice’ a lot about vegetarianism because both my children have been raised this way. I have actually done a significant amount of research about this alongside my ‘hardcore’ Vege wife to be sure that I am comfortable with this decision. I have no issue with vegetarianism, but I do have an issue with untrue statements like you have tried to make above. First check out the statistics for life expectancy. They don’t support your ‘facts’ at all.
Whilst you may not have been eating ‘supplements’ my highly ‘anti supplement’ wife had to whilst pregnant with our children as her already highly complex and carefully researched vege diet could not maintain her health. She even at one desperate stage resorted to eating lamb for it’s iron and the improvement in her health was significant.
You appear to be what I refer to as a ‘humanitarian vegetarian’. Again I have no issue with that, but like the Mormans and Jehovahs Witnesses that come knocking on your door to spread their beliefs, I suggest that you respect other peoples decisions equally. I fish, hunt, capture, kill, butcher, and eat animals as part of my diet. I get no pleasure from killing them, but I recognise that sustainable harvest of animals is part of mans life on this planet and has been so for as long as man has had the ability to perform these tasks. If the Indians and Chinese are so purely vege as you are suggesting, then what happened to the once massive populations of native creatures that once inhabited those lands before man came along. They all ended up in the pot until vegetarianism became the only choice. To hunt and kill for food is part of mans design. I don’t like how it has evolved to meat wrapped in plastic from a supermarket shelf, and even my strictly Vege children have been well educated in how the process really works through observing my harvesting. At the end of the day however, meat eating is part of what man is and it is your stance that is ‘different’. I can respect that, but don’t try and preach to me or insult me..
21 Nov 2012, 12:58 pm
@Dawn-280:
Gsite builds Joomla! content-management systems for internet websites.
21 Nov 2012, 12:58 pm
@nortierd-279:
dunno…
what the heck is that…?
21 Nov 2012, 12:58 pm
@skopdiekan-277: I don’t follow that hocus pocus stuff either, but since you were cherry picking Genesis examples, I returned the favour.
And while you’re here, answer my question please. Did your shoes at one point adorn the rump of a living bovine mammal? Start with a yes or no answer, after which you can decide to elaborate with the usual “by-product” justification nonsense.
21 Nov 2012, 12:59 pm
@WP-Forever-281: Australopithecus bosei also ate small insects and small animals.
A. africanus has a decent proportion of meat in their diet.
Earlier Ardipithecus ramidus has a portion of meat in their diet too.
There was no hominin species who was a true veggie. What differed was the proportion, types and procurement of meat in the respective diets.
21 Nov 2012, 13:00 pm
@skopdiekan-277: Come now Skop – you used to try and justify your point, and failed miserably.
According to the bible Je.sus was no vegetarian either, but keep going.
End of the day, eat whatever you feel like, and right about now I think its time for that delicious tuna and pineapple salad.
21 Nov 2012, 13:00 pm
@ufo-285:
Gunsite
21 Nov 2012, 13:01 pm
@mikeybrass-287:
But you agree that the transition to eating large amounts of animal meat was vital for being able to evolve a much larger brain, allowing higher-order cognitive function such a tool use and social behaviour patterns?
21 Nov 2012, 13:02 pm
@katman-286: If he uses the Genesis argument, well all those people living at the same time as Adam & Eve outside of Eden were farming and herding.
His ecological argument doesn’t add up either.
But all that is really besides the point. He is free to believe whatever he wants. It’s this need to degenerate others who don’t think the same way which is troublesome.
21 Nov 2012, 13:02 pm
@nortierd-289:
Now you’re talking
Where’s the Gunsite
21 Nov 2012, 13:05 pm
@WP-Forever-290: Yes with a caveat – the occasional cooking of portions of said meat. Cooking releases nutrients in the meat and obviously makes it easier to digest.
21 Nov 2012, 13:06 pm
@Dawn-292:
Blogging website, gun owners ,advise to prospective license holders etc
21 Nov 2012, 13:07 pm
@mikeybrass-291: Thats the flatulence building up and rising to his cranium.
No wonder he carries on like he’s smelling fa.rt all day long.
21 Nov 2012, 13:09 pm
@mikeybrass-291: Not that it needs any more proving here, but Skoppie is a major bullshitter. He’s a phony, plain and simple. And he’s ignored my question about his use of leather four times already today. I’m genuinely interested in how ethical vegetarians reconcile the fact that their belts, shoes, wallets, handbags, folders etc are made from slaughtered animals. And I know they try to spin the bullshit about meat being the primary reason for the slaughter and, once already dead, it would be foolish to waste a good “by-product”. But you don’t have to be particularly bright to spot the post-rationalisation spin in that.
21 Nov 2012, 13:10 pm
@katman-286: I don’t necessarily buy or wear leather shoes but the animal was not killed for its hide it was killed for its flesh for human consumption.. I wear cheap Chinese fake items, however that is a straw man argument because no one goes out to kill a cow for its hide to make shoes.. they farm cattle for slaughter for their flesh, the leather byproduct is then sold to tanneries for purposes of shoe making and subsidiary industries.. there are plenty enough synthetic material for making of shoes and accessories, but even if there weren’t leather is not the primary reason for the unsavory large scale slaughter and suffering of animals.. and it has never been such.. unless fur traders were hunting animal for skins and fur the leather sold to tanneries for manufacture of shoes and bags and belts was always a by product of the meat industry.. not the primary reason cattle were ranched and slaughtered in abattoir’s
21 Nov 2012, 13:10 pm
@nortierd-289:
you mean a hunter…?
no…
grew up in the wilds of africa though… no shops and nearly a days trip on dirt tracks to any sort of civilization… no power… parafin fridge… no coleman cooler boxes in those days… and had to hunt for food… it was a chore… like shopping… not a pleasure at all…
haven’t shot anything since…
21 Nov 2012, 13:10 pm
@trupisero-295: I quite like Skop. He says what he thinks and is a no nonsense person in his approach. What’s not nice is the way he feels the need to degenerate those holding a different opinion – it’s a very unpleasant New Ager attitude.
21 Nov 2012, 13:11 pm
@nortierd-294:
no… sorry… didn’t know what it was… don’t blog on any other sites… rugby or guns…
just this one…
21 Nov 2012, 13:12 pm
@katman-296: Most buy fake.
@skopdiekan-297: Nowadays yes but not ethnographically or in the past – it’s called making use of the whole carcass.
21 Nov 2012, 13:13 pm
@katman-296: you are the phony fuckface.. the only phony bullshitting pseudo intelligent arsehole here is you and none other…. little cleverdick arsehole that wants to pretend its intelligent when the reality of the issue is this little runtcunt likes to think of itself as superior endowed with human intelligence while it devours corpses of dead flesh for its sustenance and keeps bullshitting itself that its civilized when the reality of the fact of it is.. it is not.
21 Nov 2012, 13:22 pm
@skopdiekan-297: Then, how do you explain the ostrich industry?
Or in fact crocodile farms?
Both industries founded on the slaughter of animals for their skins, the meat being byproduct.
21 Nov 2012, 13:24 pm
@aliboy-283: you are justifying your penchant for eating flesh and spilling lower species than your own blood, why do you stop at animals, why don’t you hunt and slaughter other humans for your food if such be your justification.. man did that plenty along his so called ‘natural path of evolution’..
there is absolutely no need for man to live off the suffering of animals none whatsoever.. but all these scientific adherents to all this mumbo jumbo latest academic intelligence sprouted here is purely a means to justify your ends.. which is kill another conscious evolved creature for your food intake.. which is absolutely and ethically unnecessary.
21 Nov 2012, 13:25 pm
@mikeybrass-301: So Skop wears Crops, not Crocs?
21 Nov 2012, 13:26 pm
@trupisero-303: purely human greed.. idiotic to say the least.. just another human excuse aimed at furthering his penchant for greed, slaughter and suffering on this nature given planet
21 Nov 2012, 13:27 pm
@skopdiekan-250: I’m not sure what your angle is here. But, I was stating that carnivores are born. There is no nature vs nurture argument. Cheetahs, Lions and most certainly my Rottie are high quality meat protein driven. They are simply born knowing that good quality protein is key to their survival.
No, they don’t have a conscience that haunts them or hounds them – they do what they must to survive – hunt, tear, grind, swallow = survival.
My rottie is fed zero grains, because his digestive system is not ‘grain friendly’; but from start to finish finely crafted for a raw meat, bone and organ buffet. I didn’t make those rules, or design my Rottie that way……
Do you know if I am a Rambo flesh eater? Nope. So hold back any judgement on me until you do. However, my Rottie is.
21 Nov 2012, 13:34 pm
@nortierd-294:
Aha
Decidedly interesting
21 Nov 2012, 13:34 pm
@skopdiekan-304: I have debated this topic for over 20 years now with much more logical and reasoned people than you appear to be. I respect the ‘humanitarian’ argument for vegetarianism, but I am afraid you present it pretty poorly in resorting to hyperbole, insults and dogma rather than some of the other quite reasonable and thought provoking rationale. Anyway, time for my beauty sleep so I will leave you to your selective biblical mutterings, but try and remember that an open mind will gather much more knowledge than a closed one.
21 Nov 2012, 13:35 pm
@skopdiekan-306: For once I can agree with you. Here we have baby crocs in the hotel khoi ponds, changed from time to time when they get too big to go back to the farm, fattened up and slaughtered for their skin.
Have eaten crocodile tail stuffed with shrimp and wine sauce – was quite good. That was at in East London though – the bloke there made some of the finest venison dishes you would ever taste.
21 Nov 2012, 13:35 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-307: well if you eat sheep and cows and goats and lambs and sheeps brains and ox’s tails and bulls balls and cows back sides or tongues then you have got no justification in taking up ethical arms against societies that eat cats or rottweilers or alsatian shepherds or horses or hunt elephant for their tusks or rhino for their horns or whales for their meat or blubber.
21 Nov 2012, 13:44 pm
@aliboy-309: you want rational scientific enlightened arguments for the non slaughter of animals for human dietary requirement don’t discuss it on a rugby blog.. actually the better place to find answers for your ill educated justification is ask the real scientists of this so called civilized humanitarian race of which you assume you are part of..
the likes of Plato, Socrates, Albert Einstein, Leo Tolstoy, Henry David Thoreau, Emerson, Benjamin Franklin, Sir Issac Newton, Pythagoras, Gandhi, Leonardo Da Vinci, Voltaire, Milton, Shakespeare, Charles Darwin, Schweitzer, George Bernard Shaw, Abraham Lincoln … and many more… I’m pretty sure they will give you a far better argument than I will.
21 Nov 2012, 13:45 pm
Am loving this Gunsite
21 Nov 2012, 13:46 pm
@skopdiekan-311:
I love horsemeat!
21 Nov 2012, 13:49 pm
“Top 3 weapons to survive the Apocalypse”
21 Nov 2012, 13:50 pm
@skopdiekan-312:
Are you seriously claiming Shakespeare? Based on what? One line from Twelfth Night??
21 Nov 2012, 13:53 pm
@skopdiekan-311: Please read again. My Rottweiler eats animal protein (MEAT) because that is what God/Evolution decided he should eat.
I own a carnivore. Which is the crux of the matter. What would someone like you, have me do in terms of diet for my Rottie?
Should I force feed him an unnatural vegan diet, that would ultimately chase him to an early end, in order to save my conscience?
What if I am a vegetarian? Which for all you know I could be……?
Does the fact that I feed my Rottie what he NEEDS to survive, make me a hypocrite?
If my Rottie (and Lions, Cheetahs, Tigers, Sharks and the sort) was/were meant to be vegan, why weren’t they engineered for grains?
One can’t pretend that the only animals out there are those who eat fruit from trees (for the sake of a good argument)
What should cause my conscience more grief? Feeding my dog what he NEEDS (meat). Or feeding him fruit and allowing him to waste away?
21 Nov 2012, 13:58 pm
Filthy ******** just cant keep their fingers to themselves. Like Indians eating with 1 hand and wiping their arse with the other, gouging is just part of Sth African rugby culture.
21 Nov 2012, 14:05 pm
@skopdiekan-312: Man, I tried, but they are all farking dead!!!
21 Nov 2012, 14:05 pm
“Owen Eastwood, a London-based lawyer, will defend Etzebeth at his hearing before independent IRB-appointed judicial officers at a hotel near Heathrow airport on Tuesday.”
Having finally acknowledged that the All Blacks are smarter on the field, the Sth Africans are now hiring smarter Kiwis off the field too.
21 Nov 2012, 14:07 pm
Surely the only argument one needs to justify eating meat is that it tastes so damn good?
21 Nov 2012, 14:11 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-317: Send him into the streets to catch some Chihuahua’s.
@The Donkeys Egg-318: Racist much? Now sit down.
21 Nov 2012, 14:14 pm
@trupisero-322:
It’s Black Panther
21 Nov 2012, 14:14 pm
@The Donkeys Egg-320:
nice to see you around blackpantie.
how’s the nz tourism job going?
21 Nov 2012, 14:19 pm
Skop, you have obviously not read many of the works written by Darwin etc. Darwin was not a veggie. His name appears on the lists of many veggies on the Net but it is a lie. Darwin favoured a balanced diet and ate both meat, fish, fruit and veg.
21 Nov 2012, 14:20 pm
@skopdiekan-297: That’s kakka and you know it. The argument of how the cow wasn’t primarily killed for it’s hide is a convenient, paper thin justification that leather wearing cow huggers like yourself use to paint over their flawed ethics.
You “don’t necessarily buy or wear leather shoes”? Either you do or you don’t. And I know you do because we’ve had a similar conversation before.
The thought of killing for meat fills you with revulsion but killing that same cow for shoes or a belt is not so bad? Do you think some animal lovers just happened upon her hide and thought, “poor thing, we’d best use this for shoes so she didn’t die in vain”?
If you think the multi billion dollar leather industry is a small, accidental spin-off of the meat industry, you’re fcked in the head. But of course you don’t think this. You just say so for the benefit of others.
Phony. Fcken. Fraud.
21 Nov 2012, 14:29 pm
@Dawn-323: ah, that explains it thanks.
21 Nov 2012, 14:31 pm
so, chelsea looking for a new manager?
again.
21 Nov 2012, 14:32 pm
Heavy days..A whole lot of sweetfuckall happening here..people actually indulging He who shall not be named on veganism!!!!
Why cant we just all get back to insulting each other or the AB fan club?!?!?!?!??!? All this BS after a Steers burger is not good for my digestion.
21 Nov 2012, 14:35 pm
@charo-328: I’ll do it. Who do I phone?
21 Nov 2012, 14:38 pm
@Golden Boy-329: Fark it get another one and pi ss the vegans off some more!!
21 Nov 2012, 14:51 pm
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE-331:
Naa…need some space for the Texan steak later
For once I am grateful to Heineken..naming the Bok squad proved to be the death of this thread
21 Nov 2012, 15:14 pm
@katman-326: you talk absolute garbage.. your education and your intelligence is fake and pseudo it is not based on any relevant truth or reality
what you know from fraud or phony is only what you yourself are you little pissarse pipsqueak imbecile…
the entire leather industry is a derivative of the meat industry and never was or ever shall be the other way around… no body ever killed an animal for its leather unless they were trapping for fur or hides. ALL the leather issued in the entire shoe and accessories market is a derivative of the meat industry and is a by product of the meat industry and never was the reason for wholesale slaughter of animals..
The phony fcukup little self infatuated fraud here is you, you little snot nosed know nothing arsehole.. you are IT although you think you so fckng clever the fact of the reality is that you are THICK.. and your eating and consumption of dead flesh from dead animal corpses and your justification for it PROVES it without any shadow of any doubt whatsoever.
@mikeybrass-325: The websites I checked all say Darwin was vegetarian, if he wasn’t then it just another so called pseudo scientist that believes one thing and does another.. a hypocrite in other words. Because human heritage is steeped in conditioned thinking that flesh eating is so called ‘natural’ for human consumption does not make it so.. it is just a justification for one more human weakness, it does not make it a virtue.. when the reality of the fact is that eating meat is a vice, it contributes to the wholesale suffering of lower conscious species and is totally and utterly UNNECESSARY.
21 Nov 2012, 15:30 pm
How’s the hedge fund going Blackpants you two faced cuntewipe?
21 Nov 2012, 15:48 pm
For all you idiot vegans out there touting it as a moral imperative please understand this… there is no such as morality. Morality is merely an adjustable set of social rules that those in charge use to get their way. There is only which is good for you and/or your group and that which is bad. The rest is just BS.
If you like the taste of meat, eat it. If you don’t like the taste then don’t eat it. Either way no one gives a **** whether you do or don’t so please keep it to yourself.
21 Nov 2012, 16:18 pm
@skopdiekan-333: What a convenient load of bullshit. That’s like saying rhino foot waste paper baskets are a by-product of the rhino horn trade and therefore kind of okay.
Either the animal’s life is sacred and untouchable for our own consumption, or it is not. You don’t get to set the veggie-friendly scale where it suits you and you leather-upper grasshoppers.
Phony. Fcken. Fraud.
21 Nov 2012, 17:26 pm
@katman-336:
Absolute garbage bullshit and if you not aware of how much garbage bullshit you are sprouting then you are more of a pseudo intellectual bullshit artist than you are even aware of. Nowhere in the history of mankind did man ever go out hunting for leather like he goes hunting for rhinoceros horn or elephant tusks for his ulterior motive greed. He either hunted for its flesh and used the skin as a by product to make shoes or bags or belts or he hunted it for fur or hide to sell for his greed or the justification for his supposed economic survival. But he did not breed cattle for their skin ever. The hide sold to tanneries comes directly from the abatoirs never the other way around. No abatoir buys flesh from the tannery the tannery buys hide from the abatoir where livestock is taken to be murdered for food, not for leather. Your pathetic attempt at circumventing the issue to suit your blood lust for dead corpse flesh is just that a pathetic attempt at your own weak self righteous justification for your pathetic uncivilized agenda looking for excuses to condone your blood lust weakness.
You want to know who the outright bullshit artist fraud is you pseudo little self righteous rat, its you,., and only you piece of garbage that feeds its children dead flesh and thinks its civilized looking for escape clauses to justify its penchant for the uncivilized practices it perpetuates.
21 Nov 2012, 17:45 pm
@skopdiekan-333: The sites are wrong. Darwin included meat in his diet, like most Victorians did, like hominins have been doing for millions of years.
There are posts of yours I enjoy. This side of you – where you feel compelled to degenerate others who don’t agree with your stance on meat – is disturbing, however.
21 Nov 2012, 17:47 pm
every ethical code and moral law derived by human conscience is arrived at through human aspiration for higher moral principles and ideals. As are every man written political or morality based constitution or set of laws such as the ten commandments or any other morality based set of religious laws or codes and injunctions issued by man for society to uphold basic principles of moral behavior.
Just because man is as yet still conditioned by his uncivilized traits and desires and weaknesses does not excuse his ethical standards or moral codes for being unethical or unjust. So killing conscious living breathing intelligent beings for food and supposed sustained survival is not only a weak justification it is also uncivilized and a straight hypocritical lie.
21 Nov 2012, 17:48 pm
@skopdiekan-337:
Wild animals killed for leather include boars, deer, elephants, kangaroos, water buffaloes, whales, zebras, eels, sharks, seals, walruses, frogs, crocodiles, lizards, snakes, and turtles. Alligators are both hunted and raised commercially for their skins; in 1995, approximately 200,000 were killed in the United States . Many of the wild animals killed for exotic leathers are poached, and some species are threatened or endangered. For treatment of animals with severe pain Tramadol for animals is the cheapest most effective pain killer. There are few reliable figures for the sale of specialty leathers, but estimates run into the billions of dollars.
Source: animalsagenda.org/skin_off_their_backs.htm
21 Nov 2012, 17:50 pm
@skopdiekan-339: That’s more like it Skop in this post of yours. It’s an argument I have heard many times from others as well and respect from beginning to end.
No argument against your first paragraph. On the second, afraid this uncivilised barbarian just likes to have meat in his diet
21 Nov 2012, 18:02 pm
@mikeybrass-338:
Somebody else brought this issue to this thread I simply responded, then you get pseudo little pipsqueak falsely educated numbskulls trying to find ulterior justification for their uncivilized conditioned behavior looking for escape mechanisms for their own conditioned weaknesses. If you can’t handle the raw unadulterated truth of the issue then don’t bring it up, and if you want to persist with falsely based pseudo scientific falsely based academic synopsis to bolster uncivilized human behavior as a virtue when it is clearly and utterly a human conditioned weakness and not a strength, then don’t blame the defender of morality and humane ethics rather look to where your pseudo scientific justification for ethical weakness falls down.
21 Nov 2012, 18:08 pm
@skopdiekan-170: Hi Skop..
A left field question. Do vegans not eat meat for ethical reasons?ie
respect for life>When does life start.John the B survived on locusts.
Not trying to catch anybody out.Just curious since you mentoned him
21 Nov 2012, 18:14 pm
@mikeybrass-340:
No hunting for whatever ulterior purpose is condoned or accepted by a vegetarian it is as equally debased and objectionable as killing of animals for their flesh to consume as food.
The use of cow hide for footwear or accessories is purely a derivative and by product of the meat industry and no cow or goat or sheep was bred and raised for slaughter for its hide, t was only bred for purposes of dairy or for slaughter for food, never for its hide. Wild animals captured or killed for their hide is as debased and uncivilized an action as killing domesticated animals for food.
21 Nov 2012, 18:21 pm
@skopdiekan-342: Missed the point of my post. Anyways.
@skopdiekan-344: I don’t agree with killing of animals for the sake of their skins. I do however have no problem with using the whole carcass of an animal once killed for meat in a humane fashion.
Make of that what you will. Personally, I am off for the day and bid you a good, pleasant evening.
21 Nov 2012, 18:23 pm
@skopdiekan-159: Hi skop.Always
had a problem w ith Vegans/Vegetarians First thing I do is look at their
shoes.If they are not Crocs then it is probably better that they do no flout .
their convictions.If one isa Vegan,then one cannot be a 99% one.
One of the major arguments for Veganism is that they cherish life and
creation.Hence,we will not eat fish/fowl/meat.
Where is the distinction drawn.
Now John the Baptist whom you mentioned survived on locusts.
There seems to be a contradiction here.Please No insults in your riposte..
21 Nov 2012, 18:29 pm
@katman-208: lol.been good too long.Think I will go to insult mode.
21 Nov 2012, 18:30 pm
@gunther-212: LO very f ing loud
21 Nov 2012, 18:42 pm
@aliboy-283: excellent
21 Nov 2012, 18:45 pm
@ryecatcher-343:
The biblical references suggested he ate or subsisted on locusts, I personally hold the view that the bible is not nearly an accurate account of anything that actually transpired in reality and largely a broad brush attenuation of translation of events. Many words written in english in the bible are derived from greek or hebrew or aramaic origins. Eg. The original english translation of one of the ten commandments according to Moses says thou shalt not kill, the new modern translation of that same injunction is thou shall not murder. So which is it, what did Moses actually instruct the Israelites to not kill or not murder?
Current Human ethics will suggest the latter, perhaps he meant the former, likewise the 5 loaves and 2 fishes fed to the multitude, in ancient Greek the original word now handed down since the story was told was something other than fish, maybe a certain vegetable. Perhaps J’esus fed the multitude fish perhaps something else, perhaps John ate locusts perhaps something else. They were both from certain religious sects at the time who eschewed the taking of life and eating of flesh. I doubt you or I can say with certainty whether J’esus or John ate flesh or not. I’m pretty convinced anyone with the compassion that J’esus had to such extent would never harm any living creature for his sustenance.
Your question about why vegan or vegetarian primarily is for humanitarian reasons, healthy lifestyle etc is largely a by product, and many vegetarians do not eat healthy they are prone to stuffing themselves with unhealthy junk food as anyone in the modern sense if they don’t take the trouble to prepare and eat a healthy balanced diet.
Am going now, meeting to attend.
21 Nov 2012, 18:55 pm
@katman-183: F you are funny
Keep the site alive.Not an observation,a reqestv
21 Nov 2012, 18:57 pm
@ryecatcher-346:
You’re making excuses for your penchant for killing for food, its not the vegetarian who are the abnormality in ethical society it is the flesh eater who has his morals all arse about face, so because in your conditioned circle of society flesh eating is regarded as rational it does not make it either ethical or moral. In short its a cop our for your own convicted immoral weakness and nothing more than that.
21 Nov 2012, 18:59 pm
@skopdiekan-337: I’m not circumventing any issue here, pal. I’m not the one with the schizo animal problems, remember? I’m just pointing out the frauds when and where I see them. I don’t give a rat’s arse what you wear on your feet. Just don’t try and spin that ethics and morality angle by me because I see right through you.
21 Nov 2012, 19:01 pm
@skopdiekan-352: Hi Skop,I have eaten
meat/fish fowl/ allof my life.Has never been a spiritual choice
Just enjoyt it
21 Nov 2012, 19:05 pm
@ryecatcher-354: Indeed. Not eating meat is a decision. Eating it is an instinct.
21 Nov 2012, 19:06 pm
trupisero-191: Not any more.
Speaking personally of couse
21 Nov 2012, 19:06 pm
Relax fuckadilly.
We are all cool with you being a vegetablist.
21 Nov 2012, 19:11 pm
@katman-353:
You see through nobody and no one pissarse, and I ain’t nor ever will be your pal so take your pseudo little self aggrandize fake evaluation of who you think you see and shove it as far up your fake little uneducated backside because that is the only place it fits. You are the epitome of self righteous scum you are the absolute most ignorant moron under the sun, and its outright self righteous garbage scum like you who need the biggest lessons to your scum faced opinionated pissarse ignoramus self.
21 Nov 2012, 19:13 pm
@David-232: LOL David
21 Nov 2012, 19:17 pm
eating meat is not an instinct it is a conditioned influence fed to children through poor education and false evaluation of what being civilized supposedly is
21 Nov 2012, 19:19 pm
FFS !!!!! I am a vegetarian… Either you are enlightened or you are not… I was a flesh eater for most of my life. Note vegetarian not vegan… Meaning I do eggs, cheese milk….I just don’t eating flesh of any kind(nothing that has lived, had a heartbeat, internal organs, eyes etc)
And you know what once in a blue moon you get the smell of a steers burger and yes your tastebuds go yummmmmmmmy ! So you go in and buy the steers vegetarian burger fecking divine. There are so many choices out there for meals, Fry’s make great hamburger patties, hotdog sausages, snitzels etc.
This is a personal lifestyle choice that can never be forced onto anybody. All I do I tease my friends and call (meat) flesh, decaying corpse and them corpse munchers and zombies
It is wrong skop to ram your beliefs and life style down the throat of others, honey works better than vinegar. Its like me saying why arnt you out every weekend saving the b*b**ns with my friends and the Seals and at the demonstrations and sit in to stop the slaughter of over (cant remember) 90 000 or 9000 innocent jackals, genets, leopards in gin traps in the Western Cape this season. Its called the Breyensomething or the other. Look it up. Sorry am really exhausted so brain not in high gear.
21 Nov 2012, 19:20 pm
@skopdiekan-352:
> its not the vegetarian who are the abnormality in ethical society it is the flesh eater who has his morals all arse about face
Look in the mirror at your teeth
Why do you think you have canines?
They’re not designed to eat grass or leaves, no no man is a omnivore
21 Nov 2012, 19:21 pm
@gunther-357:
Skoppie sê hy eet ‘n V-bone steak as hy die kans kry
21 Nov 2012, 19:23 pm
@skopdiekan-302: Hey Skop.You initiated
a good conversation.Don,t spoili now Youy rise to the bait like a trout to
the fly,but Katmans question is a good one..
21 Nov 2012, 19:25 pm
@victoriabok-363:
Vaginabone?
21 Nov 2012, 19:30 pm
@Treehugger-361:
> every weekend saving the b*b**ns with my friends and the Seals
You should rather try to save the endangered African Penguin, they’re losing the competition for food with the abundant Cape Fur and the commercial fisherman
21 Nov 2012, 19:31 pm
@gunther-365:
V-Bone steak wat grond toe kyk
21 Nov 2012, 19:34 pm
Eish, nou raak ek honger!
21 Nov 2012, 19:34 pm
@skopdiekan-352: Was waiting for the
insult.It came despite my request
21 Nov 2012, 19:34 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-368:
Vir vleis of is jy lus vir “vleis”?
21 Nov 2012, 19:37 pm
@victoriabok-370: Vleis, “vleis” of vis-sonder-hare dit maak nie saak nie!!!
21 Nov 2012, 19:39 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-371:
> vis-sonder-hare dit maak nie saak nie!!!
Hou jy nie van hare tussen jou tande nie?
21 Nov 2012, 19:41 pm
@victoriabok-372:
Iets van die aard
21 Nov 2012, 19:44 pm
Cheers, gotta run.
21 Nov 2012, 19:45 pm
Eben is a lekker slice of beef
21 Nov 2012, 19:51 pm
I see they want Quade Cooper to box as well
I’d pay money to see the snot beaten out of him
Cooper on SBW undercard?
The promoters of a boxing fight between former All Blacks rugby player Sonny Bill Williams and South African veteran Francois Botha are trying to lure controversial Wallabies flyhalf Quade Cooper into the ring.
Thinus Strydom of SA-based World Sport Promotions said in a statement on Wednesday he had approached Cooper’s manager, Khoder Nasser, in an effort to place the rugby player on the undercard of the Williams v Botha bout in Brisbane in February.
“I know that Cooper has always had a strong interest in boxing and he’s had several workouts already,” said Strydom.
“I’ll leave it to my colleagues in Australia to make a call on Cooper as a boxer and then we’ll make the announcement in a few days’ time.
“He’ll be a major drawcard in Aussie and New Zealand, and together with Sonny Bill Williams headlining the February bill, there could be fireworks in Brisbane.”
21 Nov 2012, 19:51 pm
@Dawn-375:
Do you like your wors while it’s still attached to the boer?
21 Nov 2012, 19:53 pm
@I am a stormer-377:
Nee, sy verkies dat wors so 12 duim horisontaal wegstaan van die boer
21 Nov 2012, 19:57 pm
@victoriabok-376:
Saw that. People are going to be queueing around the block to take a crack at him.
21 Nov 2012, 20:05 pm
Quade will get the snot beat out of. But I saw vids of Sunni Bin sparring with his mate, Liam Messam. And that guy looks like he could be useful in the ring.
21 Nov 2012, 20:05 pm
@victoriabok-362: the teeth argument is not relevant…have a look at the chompers on a Vervet munki, those incisors are longer and sharper than any dog, when fighting and they bite it looks to the amateur like the animal has been slashed with a panga.
21 Nov 2012, 20:17 pm
@Treehugger-381:
Have you ever seen Chimps hunting and eating colobus mo-nkeys?
21 Nov 2012, 20:44 pm
Treehugger@381
As a kid i raised to orphaned vervets and a ******… all three would eat meat whenever they got the chance… insects, lizards, nestlings, farm chickens if they could catch them… any young infirm or slow animal – if they could catch it they would kill and eat it.
Seperate incident… as a ranger with guests witnessed a troop of ******* chase down a young duiker… the alpha male killed it amidst much bleating and crying… then walked around with the unfortunate creature in its mouth showing off to the troop before climbing a tree and eating it… some of the other ******* waited below and fought over the scraps.
Yes, both species use their incisors for fighting each other… but also for killing other creatures.
21 Nov 2012, 20:45 pm
@ryecatcher-369:
that is no insult its simple straight honest talk.. where is the insult, you must be more sensitive than any vegetarian I know.
you flesh eaters think you are the moral standard of society, you think you are sanity incarnate and vegetarians must have a screw loose because they don’t want to make a corpse graveyard of their bodies, so they refuse to ingest dead rotting flesh into their metabolism. The vegetarian is actually the one further advanced from a moral or civilized or ethical standpoint than the flesh eater so if anyone wants to compare morality and sanity standards you are at the wrong pole of the evolutionary scale.
If straight honest talk looks to you like an insult then you should rather read the bible and make excuses that J’esus said its Ok to eat animals for your food.. which he didn’t.
21 Nov 2012, 20:48 pm
@ufo-383: so that makes them civilized, or evolutionary advanced among natures species because they kill and eat prey for food.
21 Nov 2012, 20:48 pm
@I am a stormer-379:
We could make a lot of money, let Quade Cooper box Luke Watson, people would pay to see that fight
21 Nov 2012, 20:56 pm
@Treehugger-361: nobody is forcing anyone to address any issue.. the discussion was initiated by a blogger who picked out some random vegetarian quote or discussion on News24 and posted it here trying to make light of a personal moral conviction.
If one looks at who are the more advanced human examples of educated intelligence and compassionate principles of humanity then it has always been the vegetarians in society, how can anyone even begin to try and compromise their conditioned response with the idea that a flesh eater is in any way compassionate to another specie of nature when they eat them.. All the fake notions of abhorrence for depraved human cruelty toward lesser species goes flying out the window when in one breath they are protective over endangered species and in the very next one they are stuffing a steak or animal limb down their gullet.
21 Nov 2012, 20:57 pm
on mobi… the stars were apes that rhyme with but are not buffoons…
Skop@385 im not anthropomorphising or assigning any evolutionary attributes to these creatures… just relaying what I witnessed over many years that they are definitely omnivorous in diet.
What would you suggest it says about their evolutionary and civilised status?
21 Nov 2012, 20:58 pm
IRB appeals All Black’s ban View 1 comments Comment on this story 26 minutes ago London – The International Rugby Board (IRB) said
on Wednesday it would appeal against the “unduly
lenient” one-week ban handed down to New
Zealand’s Adam Thomson for stamping on Scotland’s
Alasdair Strokosch. Thomson, yellow-carded during the world
champions’ 51-22 win over Scotland at Murrayfield
on November 11, was subsequently cited for
stamping on Strokosch. But despite independent IRB judicial officer Jean-
Noel Couraud finding him guilty of an offence at a
hearing in London last Wednesday, the Frenchman
imposed a ban of just one week. However, the global governing body can initiate an
appeal under a revised regulation in its own rule-
book which took effect on June 1. An IRB statement issued on Wednesday said: “The
International Rugby Board has confirmed that it will
appeal what it strongly believes to be an unduly
lenient sanction handed down to New Zealand
forward Adam Thomson for stamping or trampling
on the head of an opponent. “As custodians of rugby worldwide, the IRB has a
duty to protect its image, values and integrity
together with the welfare of players at all levels in
order that the sport can continue its unprecedented
growth and welcome more men, women and
children to the rugby family. “The IRB strongly believes that the sanction of one
week is unduly lenient for this particular act of foul
play and not aligned with the sanctions handed
down in similar cases.” The global governing body’s statement added: “The
IRB firmly believes it is in the best interests of the
game and its integrity to exercise its ability to appeal
the Thomson decision.” As for the timing of the appeal tribunal, the IRB said:
“The logistical arrangements for the hearing will be
announced shortly.” Scotland coach Andy Robinson suggested after the
match that Thomson had been fortunate to escape a
red card. Thomson’s ban meant he missed last Saturday’s
42-10 win over Italy in Rome. However, as things
stand, he is available for this Saturday’s Test against
Wales in Cardiff. New Zealand coach Steve Hansen is due to announce
his side to play Wales on Thursday, with the All
Blacks concluding their tour against England at
Twickenham on December 1. Former England hooker Brian Moore, in language
not far removed from the IRB’s own words this
Wednesday (November 21), reacted to Thomson’s
suspension by labelling it “ludicrously lenient”. And the punishment was in marked contrast to the
eight-week ban handed out the same day to
Australia lock Rob Simmons for a “tip tackle” on
France flanker Yannick Nyanga during the Wallabies
33-6 defeat in Paris on November 10. As pundits and Twitter commentators reacted
against Couraud’s ruling last Wednesday, IRB chief
executive Brett Gosper reacted by using the social
networking site to say: “The IRB will review this case as it is a match under our jurisdiction. “If we decide to take action we will make it public,” the Australian, who took up his post in June, added. Samoa centre Eliota Fuimaono-Sapolu slammed the
Thomson verdict and compared it with the three-
week ban he received from England’s Rugby
Football Union last year for tweets about Owen
Farrell. “I got 3 weeks for sarcastic tweets. So had I just rucked Farrells head I would have got only a week? Its just so comical these days,” Fuimaono- Sapolu posted.
AFP
21 Nov 2012, 21:09 pm
@skopdiekan-387: Give up your vellies or shut the fck up, you hypocrite phony-polony fakefuck fraudster. The animal that gave you your belt suffered no less than the one I ate tonight. In fact, if it hadn’t been for the fact that all your clothes predate the moon landing, it might even have been the same creature. You cherry pick the occasions when it’s okay to use the animal as it suits your flimsy whimsy phony polony lifestyle. But I see through you, old chum. I spot a naked emperor the minute I lay eyes upon him. And you, my friend, are naked as the day you entered this world. Net boude en tottie.
21 Nov 2012, 21:09 pm
@skopdiekan-385:
No, they don’t have the luxury to pick what they want to eat
They have to eat what they can get
Man used to be the same
Animal protein gives you the most bang for a buck, that’s why you’ll find the bears gorging on Salmon now, much more calories than a pound of berries or grass
Only when they started growing grain crops could they accumulate enough non-animal source food in one location to survive on
21 Nov 2012, 21:13 pm
@mamma_lou-389:
The AB’s – saints or sinners?
Well, that’s easy to answer.
21 Nov 2012, 21:20 pm
@ufo-388: we so called educated species take a thesis by a scientist like Darwin as fact and convince ourselves that we are advanced apemen and we base all our morality standards and conditioned eating habits around this supposed scientific fact, which may be so far removed from fact it could be the biggest red herring ever conditioned by incomplete analysis or so called ‘science’.
However none of this incomplete synopsis of man’s origins have any bearing on his current eating habits which boil down to a simple moral issue. Is the food we ingest of a moral and ethical and spiritual benefit or is it detrimental? When people try and put forward the notion that they are advanced from a perspective of so called civilization and that they are not inclined to harm or inflict pain and suffering on lower species of nature they are being dishonest with themselves, because those very same people some of whom are at the forefront of animal rights activism are killing and devouring dead flesh from previously live animals at every meal they partake in. Such hypocrisy is quite startling if anyone is willing to take a very hard and direct look at what comprises civilized evolutionary behavior and what does not.
Excuse this bit of info which may or may not be scientifically accurate but here it is.
For over a century, studies of skulls and teeth have produced unreliable conclusions about man’s origin. Also, fossil evidence allegedly supporting human evolution is fragmentary and open to other interpretations. Fossil evidence showing the evolution of chimpanzees, supposedly the closest living relative to humans, is nonexistent. Stories claiming that fossils of primitive, apelike men have been found are overstated. Since 1953, it has been universally acknowledged that Piltdown “man” was a hoax, yet Piltdown “man” was in textbooks for more than 40 years. Before 1977, evidence for Ramapithecus was a mere handful of teeth and jaw fragments. We now know these fragments were pieced together incorrectly by Louis Leakeye and others into a form resembling part of the human jaw.
The only remains of Nebraska “man” turned out to be a pig’s tooth.
Forty years after he discovered Java “man,” Eugene Dubois conceded that it was not a man, but was similar to a large gibbon. In citing evidence to support this new conclusion, Dubois admitted that he had withheld parts of four other thigh bones of apes found in the same area.
Many experts consider the skulls of Peking “man” to be the remains of apes that were systematically decapitated and exploited for food by true man. Its classification, Homoerectus, is considered by most experts to be a category that should never have been created.
The first confirmed limb bones of **** habilis were discovered in 1986. They showed that this animal clearly had apelike proportions and should never have been classified as manlike.
The australopithecines, made famous by Louis and Mary Leakey, are quite distinct from humans. Several detailed computer studies of australopithecines have shown that their bodily proportions were not intermediate between those of man and livingapes. Another study, which examined their inner ear bones, used to maintain balance, showed a striking similarity to those of chimpanzees and gorillas, but great differences from those of humans. Likewise, their pattern of dental development corresponds to chimpanzees, not humans. Claims were made—based on one partially complete australopithecine fossil, Australopithecus afarensis, (a 3.5-foot-tall, long-armed, 60-pound adult called Lucy)—that all australopithecines walked upright in a human manner. However, studies of Lucy’s entire anatomy, not just a knee joint, now show that this is very unlikely. She likely swung from the trees and was similar to pygmy chimpanzees. In 2006, a more complete Australopithecus afarensis specimen—a 3-year-old baby—was announced. Its new features were clearly apelike. The australopithecines are probably extinct apes.
21 Nov 2012, 21:20 pm
Ricardo 10 post 45 – go cry me a fn river loser
21 Nov 2012, 21:21 pm
@I am a stormer-392:
> The AB’s – saints or sinners?
Both the former if you’re a supporter, the latter if they’re ripping you a new one
21 Nov 2012, 21:24 pm
@katman-390: you tried your luck at that fakefuck strawman argument and you failed.. just a fakefuck excuse for you to continue trying to justify your desire to murder and inflict suffering on innocent creatures for your food..
No animal died for either my belt or my shoes, they died because unscrupulous fakefuck uneducated cruel punks like you thought it was authorized by nature that they were to be killed by cruel heartless scum like you…
21 Nov 2012, 21:25 pm
Most apes are opportunists and will simply eat what they can when they can… not too fussed about whether its meat or plant.
One thing… it is fatal for any little critter to move, be seen or run from a vervet or chacma
21 Nov 2012, 21:32 pm
@skopdiekan-396: You still wear the shoes, you ignoramus. You still wear the shoes made from a dead animal that died at a slaughterhouse after living a life on a farm. Spinning it this way and that way does not alter the facts. And I know it gnaws at your conscience – I’ll give you that much. But you don’t have the conviction to go the whole hog, if you’ll excuse the livestock phrase.
By your argument it’s perfectly fine to make four lovely waste paper baskets from the feet of an elephant that was killed first and foremost for his tusks.
As I said, you can bullshit a lot of people here, but not the katman. The katman is your daily reminder that you cannot hide from the truth.
21 Nov 2012, 21:32 pm
@victoriabok-391: so the babboon or bear or vervet is more or less advanced and civilized than man.. which specie has the excuse to condone his desire for merciless killing and which one does not..?? all your fake arguments are cop out excuses to give yourself the false pretense justification that you are in your right to kill innocent harmless creatures for your food.
That is fine if you are still an uncivilized animal living in the wild and you think you will become extinct if you cannot get your hands around some innocent creatures throat, but you are under the impression that you are advanced along the paths of civilization and hence you should be in a position to determine your actions and the degree of suffering and pain you cause others.
So either you are civilized and evolutionary advanced or you are not.. and if you think you are then start acting like it.
21 Nov 2012, 21:35 pm
@ufo-383: do not believe a word you have written, hunted down a Duiker indeed. I have worked with them for 17 years and am by no means an expert, but know more than most. I do have friends that are experts that actually travel all over the world by invitation to help out. They are not carnivores, when they require protein Yes they eat bugs and such and occasionally nestlings and love eggs. BUT HUNT NO !!!!!!! What you had were expets…. These worst to take in for rehabilitation or sanctuary because of their behavior. They have no idea how to behave like a ****** and eat like a ****** as they had no one to teach them. They cannot protect themselves as they do not know the basic warning signs from other *******.
This is why it is totally illigal to keep them as a pet, people get them as babies and think how cute, then they get older with no manners and usually just get bhoppered into the bush somewhere and left to survive…and they cannot.
21 Nov 2012, 21:36 pm
@I am a stormer-392:
they get away with more than the rest for some reason or the other.
21 Nov 2012, 21:36 pm
@skopdiekan-393:
> and conditioned eating habits around this supposed scientific fact
No, not eating habits, look at your teeth
A wolf, dog, bear and pig (and humans) all have insicors
Sheep, cows, antelope etc don’t, why not?
Because they don’t need it to eat grass and leaves
Feral and Bush pigs would kill calves and sheep and eat them if the opportunity arises, just like ba-boons, mo-nkeys and ch-imps
Humans could only afford the “luxury” of vegetarianism once agriculture had developed enough to provide them with a year round supply of grains
Look at the artic, the Inuit (Eskimos) and their ancestors survived for thousands of year solely eating the only food around, seal and whale meat with lots of fat.
How did they manage to survive without Quinoa and spelt?
21 Nov 2012, 21:40 pm
@katman-398: the bullshitter is you fuckwit.. your very self aggrandized little attitude that you think you can spot a phony when it is you who are the fakefuck little pseudo intelligent fraud to the utmost degree spells it out.. you are the fake and the fraud .. you are the one who is bullshitting himself that he is entitled to kill and eat a living conscious being for his food.. and you are falsely educating and feeding your children with the same degree of pseudo entitled uneducated non intelligent garbage…
You are dense and dumb you have no valued argument because NO animal gave up its skin for leather shoes or for a belt, it gave up its life because cruel and callous cn’ts the likes of you sought to EAT it.. and that is the ONLY reason why it died.
So save your snot nosed little condescending fakefuck opinion of yourself you pseudo intelligent little schmuck.. YOU are the cold blooded insensitive murdering killer and no amount of you looking for a scapegoat to obviate your cold blooded merciless cruelty will ever condone the heartless condition you live under bring your children up with
21 Nov 2012, 21:43 pm
Skop… I only responded to Treehuggers post… I did not take a position on the evolutionary relevance of my post… I have no need to read anyone’s thesis on the diet of vervets and chacma as i witnessed their eating habits up close and personal with my own eyes over years of living with them… Not trying to sway the debate one way or the other… just trying to keep the facts as i have seen them in real life accurate.
Nor trying to put you on the spot Treehugger… just passing on info i thought you may find useful.
21 Nov 2012, 21:44 pm
Took the Duiker up into the tree….utter cr*p !!!! You are possible thinking bab**n. A duiker is a lot bigger that a vervet even the males…a 8 kg vervet is considered a real big boy.
21 Nov 2012, 21:45 pm
@victoriabok-402: so a human pig dog vervet bear and chimpanzee are of the same evolutionary scale.. because bears and vervets and pigs and wolves eat meat, your logic tells you humans are supposed to?
False .. one more cop out excuse to inflict unnecessary suffering through your false educated guesses at who you are.
You are either at the same level of evolution as these other species or you are not.. if you suggest that you are at the same level as the bear and dog and wolf and pig then by all means eat what they eat.. where is your INTELLIGENCE derived from?
sounds to me that you are more stupid than all the lower species combined.
21 Nov 2012, 21:46 pm
@Treehugger-400:
> do not believe a word you have written, hunted down a Duiker indeed
The big males do kill and eat goat and sheep lambs when the opportunity arises, so killing a Duiker won’t be much different
21 Nov 2012, 21:49 pm
skopdieemmer
21 Nov 2012, 21:50 pm
@skopdiekan-406:
No, but it tells you your ancestors did as they had the means to procure it and the teeth to eat it
21 Nov 2012, 21:51 pm
I’d wager that Etzebeth is, on current form, the best 4 lock in the world.
We should not be afraid to throw the youngsters into the deep end of the pool. They can swim.
Rugby is a game for young guns – read before age 25 – whose bodies can take the knocks of international rugby. With the amount of rugby nowadays, a 25 year old rugby player has already reached his playing peak.
I believe experience is not as important as it is 20 years ago. Nowadays it is all about the youngsters who can make the step up quickly. I’d rather have a 22-year old who has played 35 tests than a 32-year old who has played 110 tests.
21 Nov 2012, 21:52 pm
Treehugger… you may believe what you choose to… a pity though for you that you are so closed minded and think you know all there is to know.
This first hand information could be useful to someone in your position… but hey no skin off my nose that you assume such an arrogant position and call me a liar.
Ill accord you the dignity and respect you have denied me though and wish you all the best in the good work you continue to do.
Perhaps one day if you are in Cape Town and would be interested in learning a little more we could meet and i will elucidate more than is possible on a mobile with a slow connection.
21 Nov 2012, 21:52 pm
@Treehugger-405:
He said a troop of ******
21 Nov 2012, 21:52 pm
@ufo-404:
Look I know I come out hard here and let fly with all type of generalization regarding issues like these but there is a reason for it.. because the degree of false educated compromised delusional so called ‘scientific’ justified reasons for merciless killing of defenseless creatures has no foundation of any degree of moral justification at any idea of what is ethical or moral in terms of human values
21 Nov 2012, 21:57 pm
@ufo-411: surely she is in a position from a professional standpoint to know what a vervet can or cannot achieve physically
but whatever that position is it makes no difference to the HUMAN question about what is morally and ethically acceptable as to what HUMANS put into their mouths and digestive systems..
THIS is the question of concern.. not what the vervet or chimpanzee does but what YOU do with your life.
21 Nov 2012, 21:57 pm
@willievz-410:
> Rugby is a game for young guns – read before age 25 – whose bodies can take the knocks of international rugby
Especially in the Southern Hemisphere with the S15
Look how many injured players the Boks and Wallabies had by the start of the mid year tours?
No wonder young SA players like CJ Stander prefer to play up North
21 Nov 2012, 21:58 pm
@skopdiekan-414:
He said ba-boons, the Keo site censored it
21 Nov 2012, 21:58 pm
@willievz-410:
agree with you. carreers will also be shortened with the amount of rugga being played
21 Nov 2012, 22:00 pm
Treehugger… If you read my posts you will see that i explained the stars or asterisks sensor end out of my posts were for apes that rhyme with but are not buffoons…
But must repeat it is a pity you go around calling someone who has witnessed animal behaviour at first hand that you have obviously not a liar.
Yip people are fascinating… never cease to surprise.
21 Nov 2012, 22:04 pm
@victoriabok-416: so are we babboons or vervets or orangutans or chimpanzees or gorillas or neanderthals or cromagnon species or pigs or wolves or bears or dogs? Are you a modern civilized human being with modern civilized human principles and ethics and morals or are you a cold callous cruel uncivilized murderer that is bound by your cold callous cruel ancestral conditioning and ‘instinct’ to murder and kill and devour unsuspecting defenseless creatures for you food..
WHICH creature ARE you.. ? make up your mind about that.
21 Nov 2012, 22:06 pm
@ufo-418: that is exactly what she said.. she said it could not be a vervet it could perhaps have been a babboon.. so why you getting all huffed up and judgmental and sensitive about that ?
21 Nov 2012, 22:11 pm
@skopdiekan-403: How many times must I repeat to you the I have no problem with the meat I eat or the leather I wear? Hell, I even have a lovely leather sofa. So where you get this scapegoat nonsense from is a little baffling, to put it mildly.
No, I’m simply the pesky guy who just won’t stop pointing out the MASSIVE FCKING HOLES THE SIZE OF TEXAN T-BONE STEAKS in your flimsy whimsy ethics. And I can tell you don’t like this. I can tell the leather thing is a problem to you. This is definitely not the first night you’ve grappled with it, that much is pretty clear. So I’ll leave you alone now. My work is done. You have plenty to chew on.
21 Nov 2012, 22:14 pm
Skop… I said first up it was a troop of ba***ns but it got sensored… I then made a post explaining the stars.., yet Treehugger was so quick to jump in with both feet and call me a liar..,
And you now want to criticise me…?
Lesson for Treehugger… when in doubt ask questions before you make accusations.
That way everyone may hang onto their dignity and respect.
21 Nov 2012, 22:15 pm
@skopdiekan-419:
> WHICH creature ARE you.. ? make up your mind about that.
You eat what you want and I do likewise
21 Nov 2012, 22:21 pm
@ufo-422:
Have a look at this video, it might just as well have been Skop and Treehugger sitting there
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ErRHJlE4PGI
21 Nov 2012, 22:22 pm
Thanks VictoriaBok… at least someone can read properly…
appreciated..
frustrating on slow mobile connection…
signing off…
cheers
21 Nov 2012, 22:24 pm
@katman-421: there are NO holes in my ethics fckface.. go and take the cow you devour and slit its throat, drain its blood, skin its hide off its back, take out its entrails and guts, carve up its flesh and then stick it on your braai and eat it.. ALL you are is one big phony fakefuck cold callous cruel piece of garbage trash.. who THINKS you are entitled by some instinctual excuse of evolutionary nature to carry on being the cold blooded cruel insensitive fakefuck merciless ‘instinctual’ killer that you are….
YOU killed the cow and ate its flesh.. the abattoir sold its skin as a by product of the industry that YOU instigated and created with your cold blooded merciless killing spree to the subsidiary industry who sold it on to leather shoe makers and hand bag or belt manufacturers.. NO cow died because anyone wanted a pair of shoes made from leather.. MILLIONS of cows and calves and sheep and goats and chickens and turkey died because cold blooded merciless uncivilized killers the likes of you wanted some flesh between your uncivilized jaws…
Your fake excuse of a straw man argument has FAILED 1000 times and it will FAIL every time you try and evade the argument of what a cold blooded merciless callous cn’t of an insensitive punkbastard killer you are.
21 Nov 2012, 22:28 pm
@victoriabok-423: Obviously.. but don’t take Darwinian evolutionary biological so called ‘science’ as some fake excuse that you are entitled to kill defenseless creatures for food.. that fake argument holds no value.. it is an excuse for a desire you call an instinct which is a conditioned reaction to an uncivilized trait that you are still carrying from poorly educated and inaccurate synopsis about who you think you actually are and what is ethically and morally obligatory from a humane point of departure.
21 Nov 2012, 22:28 pm
UFO… I work with them everyday….I associate with people that have studied primates for years. I have a friend with a new book coming out…I will inform them about what you have seen…I do not mean to offend you but you must understand..I do know vervets…I am not just some bored little housewife…I have seen incredible things and horrific things and know longer (until quite recently) leave my property for days on end to do what I used to do…I only deal with what is around me now.
Because I am home all the time I can do a vervet sanctuary and have a large wild troop who I have cared for for many years with a feeding station to keep them away from other properties and farms. Deforestation and urbanization is making ververts more visible even though their numbers are declining at an alarming rate.
I have laid charges against people under the firearms control act when shooting at them with a pellet gun as they die a hideous death, I have taken part in rescues of different types of animals, dog fighting rescues were my thing. I have had amazing and pathetic threats against my person, I have had the authorities up my arse for real and imagined stuff, and if they can’t nail on the imagined stuff from years ago you find yourself on no fly lists and chit happens at foreign airports with soldier escorts onto the plane, luggage disappears for a few months even when identified after been taken off the plane infront of you. Next thing you have a good looking guy sitting next to you on a plane that wasn’t there when you were escorted off
Animal lovers and activists seems to be targets for the hell of it. We usually know what we are talking about when speaking about the animals we deal with, using our own experiences and the experiences of many others that work with (for example)vervets. We take it very seriously and it freaks us out when suddenly a person says a vervet (adult weight between 4 and 8kgs) kills sheep, goats, duiker etc. Duiker is not that small, I have them in my garden around the house and in the bush on my property. It gives the public the wrong idea about them, myths like ripping off childrens arms and such cr*p. Off to sleep goodnight.
21 Nov 2012, 22:32 pm
that me out..
carry on up the abattoir pretending they so entitled to maim and murder for their human consumption is as bad as killing rhino for its horn or elephant for its tusk.. no different.. just a more convenient excuse.. that is all.
21 Nov 2012, 22:46 pm
Treehugger…
i never said or assumed you were a bored little housewife…I have read your posts on keo with great interest and respect…
I grew up in africa where hunters with dogs, bows and arrows and spears would often kill vervet’s and chacmas/yellows… they would then bring pathetic little hairless pink babies to us to for money… there are no such laws in africa about keeping ‘pets’ nor of trying to assist a tiny helpless creature… you are not the only one with a compassionate heart and a conscience…
when i was young 20 i was one of the first group of game rangers at sabi sabi game reserve 1980/81… we built many of the hides, put in roads, cleared bush, did snare patrols helped out with snared animals etc etc… as well as drive and walk guests around… i have seen many many amazing things and had many many amazing experiences in the wild…
i have not always been a bored city-dweller…
two rangers, two trackers and about 10 guests witnessed a troop of bab***s chase down a young duiker (i said it was young in my first post)… the alpha male then did ‘display’ for the rest of the troop with the body in its mouth before climbing a tree and eating it… with the others eating the scraps that fell… somewhere there are americans and australians with pictures of the alpha in the tree with the duiker…
anyway… as have said several times… on a very slow mobile connection here at the moment…
maybe we pick this up another time…
21 Nov 2012, 22:58 pm
is meyer serious, has hd not counted the penalties Flip concedes?
We are fortunate to have Flip van der
Merwe, who has really being playing well as
a No 4 lock and was very good for us when
we played the All Blacks in Dunedin.
But Eben is such a good player that I really
think he may be the best No 4 lock in the
world at the moment. He has helped us to
a 100% record in the lineouts in recent
games and he also adds considerable
weight to the scrums.
“He is also an important presence in the
team as an enforcer, a player who helps us
get the physical superiority on our
opponents. Against England he has an
important role to play so we are really
pleased that he was cleared to play.”
21 Nov 2012, 23:56 pm
@Transformation-431: Nevermind his penalty count.
What about his yellow card count…
22 Nov 2012, 00:46 am
First the Poms get it!
Secondly the ‘Veggies’ get it..
Then the carnivorous bab b oo n$ get it….!!
22 Nov 2012, 00:47 am
Another facinating day on Keo
22 Nov 2012, 00:50 am
I’ve seen bab b oon$ steal ice creams from tourists in Gibralter and do a spot of car jacking…..
They are ruthless!
22 Nov 2012, 02:36 am
i dont understand hooha – are we saying we should start making biltong out of labradors rather than cows of hoe?
22 Nov 2012, 02:41 am
@poppa69-246:
If thats how your brain deduces that he cheated then it explains why you are a lowly security guard…….. off you go make sure all the windows are shut before you have your tea break, theres a good fellow.
22 Nov 2012, 02:45 am
what i wanna know is in the greater scheme of things, wtf does which set of ethics/morals are more correct – if its all about minimising suffering, how many negative points in the karmic ledger are awarded for an instantaneous bolt through the brain on some poor beast as opposed to the mangling of someone’s mind by allsorts of emotional abuse.
if suffering is what we consciously experience, then on the level of suffering these supposed ‘sins’ according to the ancients and the books of revelationary horsemanure are precisely that. these systems of ethics and morals are all manmade without exception and religious followed without evidence or science or any degree of proof to the contrary.
suffering exists, independently of humans or not, if you think the cow suffers when a bolt is crashed through his cranium, offer it the alternative of ifs natural non-human counterparts, getting eaten alive by lions or stripped down by wild dogs.
too much does not make sense.
22 Nov 2012, 02:46 am
@The Donkeys Egg-318:
Ah wet pantie…………just can’t stay away can you? Doos of epic proportion!
22 Nov 2012, 10:56 am
@Treehugger-400: I’ve seen a big ale catch, kill and eat a baby impala.
Why would we make up these stories?
22 Nov 2012, 10:58 am
@skopdiekan-414: Yes exactly, the question always revolves around personal choice. Except you refuse to respect anyone else’s choice, if they happen to differ from yours.
22 Nov 2012, 11:00 am
@skopdiekan-426: Wait hold on….if I use your argument, that means I can eat a nice big steak if the cow was killed for it’s hide and not for meat?
This should be good…..
22 Nov 2012, 11:02 am
@Atreides-440: *Male. Ba-boon.
22 Nov 2012, 11:29 am
@Atreides-442: Even better, you can munch on a rhino hamburger patty provided it was killed primarily for its horn and not its meat.
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