Gulf between Boks and Blacks
24 Nov 2012
RYAN VREDE, in London, reports Jean de Villiers feels there is a significant difference in class between the All Blacks and his Springboks and that will take some bridging.
The world champions have been denied victory just once in 2012 (they’ve won 19 of their last 20 Tests), drawing with Australia. Their hot streak has featured some sublime performances, and they have become the benchmark against which many measure the Springboks. This was particularly evident when the Blacks put 50 on Scotland and the Springboks stuttered to an 11-point victory in Edinburgh a week later.
These comparisons are, of course, unfair on De Villiers’ young and inexperienced side. The Blacks’ standing now has been years in the making, while the Springboks are in the infancy of their journey. De Villiers was liberal in his praise of the Blacks, but also appealed for some perspective when judging the Springboks.
‘I think that gap is very big still between us and them. But then you look at the Dunedin result and we were in the game in Soweto before they outplayed us and we think that we’re really getting there,’ he said.
‘That’s a special team. They are showing the value of experience and of settled combinations. It takes time to build something like that. We’ve said a lot about soft moments costing us games this season, and experience helps to lower the chance of that. As an experienced player you’ve been there, made those mistakes and learned from it. Its about getting through that rough patch, and if they do the value will be there to see.’
But while the standard of measurement is likely to remain the All Blacks and consistent victory over them, De Villiers stressed the importance of the result at Twickenham against England in the context of their season.
‘The reality is that if you don’t win you’re looking at a 50% win ratio, which is below this team’s standards,’ he said. ‘We’ve only lost three [and drawn two], but it is important for us to win this one so we can go into next year with confidence. We’ve worked hard and had a reasonably successful tour from a results point of view. But we have to step up in different facets of our game, especially the attack.’
In saying that De Villiers touched on a sore point for the bulk of the South African rugby fraternity. The Springboks have scored just three tries on tour against opposition considered inferior, which has fuelled the widely held belief that they are conservative to the point of it being terminal. De Villiers disagrees.
‘There’s always ambition. The opponents don’t always allow you to do what you want. But you get judged by the result and people quickly forget about how you played when you win. History will reflect the score not the style,’ he said.
The Springboks will keep believing that they can replicate the try-scoring feats of the 2007, 2009 and 2010 Bulls (who led the tournament for try scoring in the last two of those years), whose method was identical. De Villiers pointed out that the lower standards of defence in Super Rugby had to be considered, but agreed that that is ultimately was where they wanted to take their attacking game.
‘We’re still very far off that. The way that they achieved that is with exactly the same game plan. It comes down to the decision making and clinical finishing, which is where we’ve lacked. Also those were very settled sides. That is the end goal.
‘We won’t lose focus of where we’re going and sticking to what we’re good at. If we can do that and win, I’m happy. We can’t please everybody. The flip side is that the high expectation is so crucial. Once you lose that and people don’t care anymore, then you’re in trouble. Our standards will drop and we won’t be able to get to No 1.’
315 Comments
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23 Nov 2012, 22:39 pm
@JL1-146: you going to the game tomorrow JL?
23 Nov 2012, 22:40 pm
@JL1-146:
The sad reality today is that if you have not been spotted and offered a junior contract while still at school, your future of making it seems bleak.
Good thing that the Varsity Cup got good coverage, at least there is a small chance of being spotted, yet in the couple of years it’s been running I can only recall Strauss, Eben and Katrikilis actually being found and to have gone on further.
23 Nov 2012, 22:45 pm
@TASSIES-149: Jannie was not our best when he was selected, he was our only at that point in time
He has done but I would not call him a late bloomer, the man was busy doing stuff like becoming a doctor
@TASSIES-147: Yes, that he does, he is a Keo shaken not stirred
@John1976-148: Ag on this site you can be accused of anything, it does not matter one bit
23 Nov 2012, 22:47 pm
@Treehugger-150: each to his/her own interpretation T. But there are times when certain bloggers get up one’s nose, which fires the reaction which, ultimately, one regrets afterwards. The racism thing – you’re right.
23 Nov 2012, 22:50 pm
@JL1-153: have to agree JL but he has come good of late. Loosely interpreted – late bloomer. But as I implied, so do most front rowers. Jannie is now a serious tight-head in the world pecking order.
23 Nov 2012, 22:52 pm
@TASSIES-151: I am indeed, and you?
@nortierd-152: Now we need to get the old Sport Pienaar back, then SA rugby will grow again
23 Nov 2012, 22:53 pm
@SIumtown-108: OK everyone some a hole is using my nick and posting under it. Dont know if he´s been offensive to anyone but there you have it. This is me will start all my posts with a 7 from now on. 777.
23 Nov 2012, 22:53 pm
@nortierd-152: Kolisi, Brache, Groom to name just a few from the WP that I recall off the top of my head. There are many more.
23 Nov 2012, 22:56 pm
@JL1-156: bit far for me to walk boet. I can do an empty Newlands though. About a 600m crawl from my keyboard.
23 Nov 2012, 22:56 pm
@TASSIES-155: tight heads are worth bucket of cash…in France they get paid almost as much as top world class wingers.
They are in demand and Jannie does now more than he did 2-3 years ago, his work rate has really picked up.
Props do come into their own later in their careers as well as locks, but Etsebeth is a monster of nature
23 Nov 2012, 22:56 pm
All I say is just beat England
23 Nov 2012, 22:58 pm
@Heavens Game-89: 777 Okay that wasnt me – some twit is using my nick but either way your comments were out of line. Money is not the be all and end all of life in case you dont know. Everyone thinks it is – they just dont know theyre wrong. So you can take that elitist comment and stick it where it belongs.
23 Nov 2012, 22:58 pm
@TASSIES-159: hehehehe, whats wrong with you get a flight and pull in. There is bloke on the way who does a boerie, better than back home and he runs a queue, so really good
Where are you watching tomorrow?
23 Nov 2012, 22:58 pm
okay genoeg mense. Tyd vir slaap and a decent book.
skinner more dan.
23 Nov 2012, 23:02 pm
@JL1-156:
Hopefully the new club champs will have positive spin off
@TASSIES-158:
Thanks, didn’t really pay to much attention, so thanks for pointing them out.
23 Nov 2012, 23:03 pm
@JL1-163: maybe Hout Bay YC. Problem is the drink n drive story en-route home. I battle with the water into wine thing. Prefer the other way round ending with the urinal. So might stay at home to stay out of jail. Home-games I normally walk to Nuweland and the above issue becomes superfluous.
23 Nov 2012, 23:04 pm
@TASSIES-138: thanks for your positive reply
23 Nov 2012, 23:06 pm
@nortierd-165: For sure, that new club champs is a step in the right direction. Get the net wider and make sure we do not miss out on any talent
I would love to see NOK, Verre Noord and the smaller little regions fight it out
23 Nov 2012, 23:07 pm
@JL1-160: Etsebeth is the exception. Big time exception. Jannie is performing to script. Good tightheads are like hens-teeth these days. He’s now worth his weight in gold. = plenty franc
23 Nov 2012, 23:08 pm
@TASSIES-166: Get a black cab….Oh I forgot no cabs.. but hey you live a most scenic city in the world. Good trade off
23 Nov 2012, 23:12 pm
@TASSIES-169: we were suppose to have loads of quality tight heads….. but we had an exodus of note and it still ongoing…
Faan Rautenbach, Cobus Visagie, Dann Human, retirements and no strong fatties coming through.
Werner Kruger is soft, Brok Harris is not better, WP Nel is under performing (great talent but needs a kick in the back side)
23 Nov 2012, 23:12 pm
@JL1-168:
Platteland rugby has died a slow death unfortunately, maybe it can be revived?
Hard men on hard fields, now everyone is gym strong and bench presses and lunges are the way to gauge strength.
That’s what I find it strange that we still cling to the belief that we can overpower all opposition by being so much stronger.
The norm for condition and strength is pretty much the same for all International class players.
Skill should set them apart.
23 Nov 2012, 23:12 pm
@JL1-170: doesn’t help when you’re peering through the bars of a wynberg jail cell though. Forries is a good fall-back though if you need company.
23 Nov 2012, 23:15 pm
@JL1-171: agree. Folk talk of Malherbe being a future talent. Personally can’t see it. But very young and early days yet. For the rest these’s not much brewing afraid. Seems it’s a dying art in this country.
23 Nov 2012, 23:19 pm
@nortierd-172: I still maintain the farm boys are stronger. Classic examples: Willem Alberts, Schalk Burger, Juan Smit to name a few hard men loosies. You could chuck the Du Plessis broers/boere in there too if you like. Henry Honeyball was a boerkie and bliksems hard. The only real exception I can think of was Rob(Louw). Who was not nice to tackle or be tackled.
23 Nov 2012, 23:20 pm
okay everyone’s hit the pit.
sally gachle all
23 Nov 2012, 23:23 pm
@goodstuff-24: I only saw ur post now. We on the same page here. See 101 or 102
23 Nov 2012, 23:25 pm
@nortierd-172: Now that is where you got it wrong… this gym stuff makes them only puffed…
Size is only 20% the rest is attitude….Bakkies was in weight the same size as many other international players, yet those international players were soft
@TASSIES-175: yes yes I agree
23 Nov 2012, 23:29 pm
@TASSIES-175:
Yep, that was was set us and the AB’s apart years ago as well.
Farm stock and natural strength. Today though it must be tempered by skill as well, that is where the Kiwi’s are ahead of us, off load in tackles for example.
We still try to steamroller over opponents too much
23 Nov 2012, 23:59 pm
@JLI 171 – I like the like the way Kirsten is stabilising the scrum when he comes on. He imho is a decent propect but unfortunately not getting enough opportunities at the Bulls. He is definitely one for the future.
24 Nov 2012, 00:00 am
@JL1-178:
You are right, I was referring to the standard norms with regard to what certain players in certain positions are supposed to achieve.
Certain players like Bakkies had that extra edge, almost the mongrel attitude, that sets them apart, I think Eben will also fall in that attitude.
I just believe it must be supplemented with skill as well.
Kieran Reid a case in point. He is every bit as hard as a Willem Alberts, yet I would pick him every time over Alberts as he is not a one trick pony that only relies on brawn.
Give me a Conrad Smith any day , you hardly see him playing to make contact.
He will take the hit, but his center partner will be in the clear with the ball.
We need to get back to that type of thinking
24 Nov 2012, 00:44 am
@Treehugger-150:
Now there you are so right.
Hondo has also NEVER taken part in any discussion about racism or race or anything like that.
But apparently, he is the racist scum of this site.
Makes you wonder, doesn’t it?
24 Nov 2012, 01:02 am
A massive weekend of sport coming up.My home boys Ajax and the Cobras started it off with great victories.Waiting now for Graeme and the boys to create some magic in Aus.Hopefully HM and the boys will make it a perfect Saturday,after MU’s ascendancy to the top of the EPL ..off course.On Sunday,Vettel to make it a perfect sporting weekend.Lets get the show on the road!
24 Nov 2012, 01:14 am
@wnbb-183:
First things first, oom Rye wants to know what WNBB stands for?
All the way with Ajax and Cobras.
Greame to score 300, Rudolph a big 100, Kallis his 1st 200 outside SA. (One can dream/hope). SA to lead by a few runs at the end of the 3rd day with 4 wickets in hand. That’s my hope.
ManU on top of the log after this weekend.
Vettel champ on Sunday night. (I’m actually a Robert Kubica fan. I believe the Pole is better than them all. Pity about that accident of his.)
24 Nov 2012, 01:21 am
@JL1-178:
“this gym stuff makes them only puffed…Size is only 20% the rest is attitude….”
A better example.
Pierre Spies is in weight and built twice the size as many other international players, yet those international players can run over and through him just as they like.
24 Nov 2012, 01:28 am
@nama1-184: Ah,old Rye!Good oke.Wears his heart on his sleeve.I will reveal if to him one day.
. The Pole is not too bad.I can’t stand the Spaniard,so hopefully Vettel won’t disappoint me. 
24 Nov 2012, 04:44 am
have always liked you Jean….buuut need something explained for me
circa 45mins (Scotland game), just before Strauss intercept try – Lamie passed to you, you looked up, you could see Juan open, …but then you crashed into two defenders, and died with the ball…
Why did you do that? Anyone?
24 Nov 2012, 06:14 am
OK, at least the follow on has been avoided.
It’s up to the bowlers, I guess. The few of them that are left.
24 Nov 2012, 06:36 am
Go Faf.
Faf them up good.
24 Nov 2012, 06:39 am
NZ’s Thomson has ban extended
24 November 2012, 00:38
New Zealand flanker Adam Thomson’s one-week ban for stamping on the head of an opponent has been doubled after an appeal by the International Rugby Board (IRB).
Thomson was cited for contact with Alasdair Strokosch’s head after the 51-22 victory over Scotland at Murrayfield on November 11. He was suspended by an independent judicial officer but the IRB said a one-week ban was “unduly lenient”.
“The Appeal Committee considered the appropriate sanction in this case was two weeks,” said a statement on Friday.
24 Nov 2012, 06:41 am
Can Tahir stay with Faf and help him get a 100 on debut?
Go Tahir!!!
24 Nov 2012, 06:45 am
Not to be. Faf out for 78.
SA 388 all out.
Aus lead by 162 runs.
Is this going to be the day for Dale Steyn to make his mark in the series? Injury and all.
24 Nov 2012, 06:53 am
@nama1-191:
Computer says no!
It’s strange that the wickets fall in clumps in the first session of the day and then nothing much after. It’s like the pitch gets a bit of moisture back overnight and then the heat Lola’s it off.
24 Nov 2012, 07:01 am
@nama1-192:
Lots of soft dismissals in the top order. Alviro, Hashim and Rudolph so their’s still hope when we bat again. The wicket is still holding up but Lyon is key in the 2nd innings
But their’s still lots of time left so they don’t need to declare until later tomorrow.
24 Nov 2012, 07:12 am
@nama1-192:
I’m surprised at the relative ease with which the are dominating us.
Luckily there’s still plenty of time to try get some things
24 Nov 2012, 07:14 am
SA cricket like its rugby.
****** useless.
24 Nov 2012, 07:17 am
@poppa69-196:
Jy is ‘n doos. Ons is nommer 1 in die wereld.
24 Nov 2012, 07:19 am
@poppa69-196:
If being number 1 in test cricket and nr. 2 in rugby is useless, then I can think of many other countries who play both sports who will also aspire to be useless.
2 days to go and as it stands the Aussies are ahead, but have not won yet
24 Nov 2012, 07:20 am
@gunther-193:
Jip. A pity.
The Aus bowlers have this knack of taking wickets in clumps at least once in a series against us. I remember Mitchell Johnson in Aus and in SA four years ago taking about 4 wickets for only a few runs in two magic spells. Hilfenhaus, I think, did the same when they were here last year.
Hopefully this collapse by the Proteas will be it for the series. From 233/2 to 250/7 is quite a collapse.
@Jeraldjay-194:
Rudolph’s inclusion is starting to be a problem. I told you the other day that we lose more with AB not scoring runs because he also keeps wicket than what we gain with Rudolph as a batsman.
Aus definitely in the pound seat. 30 overs left for them to bat which will probably yield about 100 runs giving them a lead of more than 250 by the end of the day. Another 250 runs tomorrow in about 2 sessions and we’ll have to bat a full 4 sessions to avoid defeat.
Scoring around 500 runs for victory is out of the question.
That is, unless our bowlers come to the rescue…big time.
Here’s hoping.
24 Nov 2012, 07:20 am
jetaldjay
well. with SA s record in cricket number 1 would have been brought.
useless. you guys should give up sport, as the Olympics showed.
you’re k@k at everything
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