Meyer believes bright future ahead
24 Nov 2012
Heyneke Meyer says the value of the narrow wins on their European tour will be evident in the years ahead.
I’ve written extensively about what the potential fruits of this tour for the clutch of young and inexperienced players in particular will be and believe more strongly now that they will be central to the Springboks’ resurgence in 2013.
Better Springboks sides with better individuals have not matched what this scratch team achieved against the backdrop of a injury-ravaged season. Optimism must now take root, and Meyer urged this.
‘To win all three games is most positive. We’ve not used to playing in these conditions. The youngsters have adapted well, what they give up in experience they make up for in excitement. That really helped us,’ he began. ‘The set phases have been much better as was our kicking game. Pat [Lambie] was superb today. Youngsters like Eben [Etzebeth] stood up away from home, as did others. Its easier to win at home than away, and we’ve now won three on the trot, which is very encouraging. I really believe you’ll only see the benefits of a tour like this in the years ahead. That our depth is better and players that would otherwise have been on the fringe have this sort of experience is hugely valuable.’
There will be those who’ll lament the manner of their victories – defence ruling attack. We should, however, never lose sight of the fact that this was a Springboks side robbed of some of its best players, one at the end of the longest season in their careers and few settled combinations. Certainly there needs to be an improvement on attack, this level of defence is unsustainable, but for now Meyer lauded the defence resolve of his team.
‘This is how you win trophies. The World Cup is going to be here so its good that we have the experience of grinding out the wins like we did tonight. This team has come a long way. For me I don’t care how we did it, but we won,’ he said.
Captain Jean de Villiers reinforced Meyer’s view. ‘Its 50 per of the game and we’re up there with the best, if not the best, at it at the moment. The attitude and determination the guys showed in defence you can’t coach. As a captain that makes me very proud.’
Asked to assess the season more broadly, Meyer said: ‘It depends whether you look at glass half full or half empty. There were only three loses and those came against the top countries in the world. There were great [Springboks] sides that have come over here and didn’t win. We brought an inexperienced side, were ranked number four team in the world and now end as number two. I would have taken that if offered, especially with some of my superstars out. The youngsters put their hands up. Other players did as well
and the guys coming back have to play hard for their places next year.’
82 Comments
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24 Nov 2012, 20:49 pm
Dragon Bokke
24 Nov 2012, 21:40 pm
Shame, the oke looks a bit run down. Hope his nerves will last his contract.
At the end of the day it must be very satisfying developing your own team of youngsters and see them win. Poor PDV was always going to receive the ‘Jake’s team’ chirp.
24 Nov 2012, 21:44 pm
Good to hear HM thought Lambie was superb. Keeps me positive about the direction the Boks are going. For all that was said of the value of his experience of playing in Ireland, Ruan was bad today. Kicking the ball away must stop guys.
Overall well done Bokke! Great achievement to win all 3 games. You have made South Africa proud!
24 Nov 2012, 21:46 pm
@Lions_Soutie-2: ja agree, HM looks very emotional during anthems and exhausted afterwards.
It wasn’t fair on pdiv that he got labelled with that. How many times do we hear Hansen is only winning because he has Henry’s team?
24 Nov 2012, 22:26 pm
The first time this year that a Bok kicker had a 100% accuracy rate in a test match…go Lambie!
24 Nov 2012, 23:26 pm
It was always going to be hard playing against a nothern hemisphere ref who clearly made a lot of mistakes!overall welldone..WP manne het alweer nag gemaak!!!
25 Nov 2012, 00:54 am
meyer calling his team a ‘scratch team’. Hammers on inexperience and that his stars not in the team. Then in same vein says how well the current team is playing and that any returning players will have to play hard to earn there places back.
If that’s not talking in circles?
He could/should have said: ‘this inexperence side, without a proper back line coach and rigid game plan, excelled and it will show in future.
25 Nov 2012, 00:57 am
@cuntlyn-7: the WP players of Vermeulen, Louw, De Villiers and Etsebeth with some assistance from Lambie. Alberts, and the 2 reserve props saved his arse..
I hope he realizes by how much.
25 Nov 2012, 01:08 am
I do agree there. And they young still.
I’m glad Lambie has been rated. My technical knowledge is not enough, andI wondered why Lambie have been Lamented on other posts. In my eyes he is really growing in that position. You don’t have a bad game because u kicked the ball out directly. Like tennis, you aim for the corner and the margin in/out very small.
Question: not referring to the merit of his selection. But don’t you think Kirchner plays better rugby than before?
25 Nov 2012, 01:13 am
@cuntlyn-9: sorry Mrs Shaurn, for the spelling and grammar mistakes. You taught us well. Late at night and on a mobile. No proof reading.
25 Nov 2012, 01:21 am
Kirchner had the best game I ever seen him play in Bok colours today.. he stood up to the occasion for the first time in I don’t know how many games.. best game I ever seen from Kirchner today in green and gold.. most times I lament about Kirchner as much as I lament about Pienaar.. but not today.
All played pretty well apart from Pienaar, and the 2 starting props who got owned at the scrum and Strauss had a quiet game except found his jumpers well in the line out.
Etsebeth should play 5 and Alberts or Vd Merwe should play 4
Heinke and Cilliers were far better than Steenkamp and Du Plessis
Louw and Vermeulen along with Etsebeth, Alberts and De Villiers, and then Kirchner, Pietersen and Lambie as back up led the Boks to victory
But Vermeulen was colossal and led the war from the front of the trenches together with Louw and JdV took huge courage also in the thick of it.. JdV stopped Tuilagi on his burst off Pienaar’s poor pass intercept otherwise it was England try time and game up right there.
25 Nov 2012, 01:39 am
@skopdiekan-11: Thoughts on how JPP was used as a first centre on many occasions instead of JdV ?
25 Nov 2012, 03:04 am
And I believe that Santa Claus is going to eat the cookies I leave out for him on Christmas Eve.
25 Nov 2012, 04:01 am
Soda… If I had one wish it would be to stand next to you next time you say something stupid like that!
25 Nov 2012, 06:36 am
@skopdiekan-11:
Thanks for that Skop. I’m glad for Kitchner, he stepped up. Obviously hard work on his side. Within his limitations very safe at the back.
I wonder if HG still regards JdV ‘sonder ballas’. (Probably, but for another reason. Like the way he sang the Anthem)
25 Nov 2012, 07:48 am
Meyer believes a lot of things. Not all are necessarily true.
For example:
Jaques Potgieter is a test player. (He saw the light with this one.)
Hougaard is a test wing.
Kruger is a test lock.
Kicking the ball to the opposition is the best way to play rugby.
Rugby is about defence and not about attack.
25 Nov 2012, 08:22 am
Meyer is about as realistic and honest now as Hitler and Goebbels about winning WW2 with the Russians on the edge of Berlin…
This Bok side is an embarrassment to Rugby…
Vivre La France…
25 Nov 2012, 09:05 am
Well done HM
With Beast, Burger, Bekker, Steyn, Habana, Goosen, Bismark, Kankovski, Du Preez, Spies, Heinrich and a few others back in the picture next year, we can only improve!
25 Nov 2012, 09:45 am
@skopdiekan-11:
Agree 100%.
He was solid, showed guts under the high ball and his worth was properly demonstrated the first two times JP tried to take high balls and knocked both on.
I get the idea HM has been working on him for many years to play a Johan Roets type game after he left.
He was one of those nothing flashy, but very solid type players whose worth was only truly discovered after his sudden retirement.
25 Nov 2012, 11:35 am
Lambie is fine, we need more movement from our centres like they needed to probe more. Good defense though. I say bring back PDV as attack coach. or an Eddie Jones.
25 Nov 2012, 11:41 am
I too believe there is a bright future ahead, but we need to change our game plan and improve on the poor backline play. We need Goosen back soon so he can spark the backline. I also believe it is time for Jean to retire. We are all blaming players, yet the coach is instructing them how to play. I mean how many times did the ball move from 10! Twice? If we continue to play like this we might of have forwards as backline players. It is a joke to say the least.
25 Nov 2012, 11:42 am
We have become so used to mediocre that a mediocre display is lauded as okey…
25 Nov 2012, 11:54 am
@Gumboots-21:
Meyer will have the test matches during the inbound tours to get our back line firing. He is fortunate that we’ll be playing against “weaker” teams while Aus will host the B&I Lions and NZ will host France.
The Scotland team that will tour in SA will be without their best players (they’ll be with the Lions). I believe Italy will also come to our shores.
He could not ask for better than that in a bid to sort out our back line woes before the RC start.
Let’s hope.
25 Nov 2012, 11:57 am
@nama1-23:
We will get a false sense of security playing against the 12 ranked second side. We needed to be playing the top guys to get a true idea of where we are and what we can do…
25 Nov 2012, 12:14 pm
Bok tries this year.
1. vs England: 2 tries (JdV & Morne)
2. vs England: 4 tries (JPP, Bissie, Alberts, Hougaard)
3. vs England: 1 try (JPP)
4. vs Arg: 3 tries (Habana, Kirchner, Coetzee)
5. vs Arg: 1 try (Frans)
6. vs Aus: 1 try (Habana)
7. vs All Blacks:1 try (Habana)
8. vs Aus: 4 tries (Habans x 3, Flo)
9. vs All Blacks: 1 try (Habana)
10. vs Ireland: 1 try (Pienaar)
11. vs Scotland: 2 tries (Strauss x 2)
12 vs England: 1 try (Alberts)
22 tries in 12 matches.
16 tries scored against us.
So all in all, our attacking play was nothing to write home about while we also leaked tries.
25 Nov 2012, 12:17 pm
@nama1-23:
All our coaches played the weaker teams during their careers ( fiji, Italy, Etc)
If HM can win the next 4 or so, his record would be pretty impressive!
25 Nov 2012, 12:18 pm
Perfect build up for the four nations! We will be wining a few test matches next year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
25 Nov 2012, 12:21 pm
@Gumboots-24:
I hear you but I just think it might be better to try new things against weaker opposition.
25 Nov 2012, 12:29 pm
@phil72-26:
Yes, absolutely.
He can start the RC with a win record of around 65% next year.
25 Nov 2012, 12:34 pm
@nama1-28:
When last did we have a coach that can say we only lost about 20% of our games…. Only kitch christie would have a better record?
25 Nov 2012, 12:42 pm
@phil72-30:
As much as you plonkers might hate it…. HM is on track to become the most successful rugby coach in SA behind Kitch Christie
3 easy matches to start the season, the 6 four nations matches with a far stronger springbok team and another end of year tour with now a more experienced and far superior team?
I would suggest he could easily win 10 out of his next 12?
25 Nov 2012, 12:42 pm
@phil72-30:
Meyer won 58% in 2012.
Not bad.
But for FS.
You are SA. Not bad, ain’t good enough……………………………………….IS IT.
25 Nov 2012, 12:45 pm
@cane-32:
It could have been much worse! No other SA coach ever managed to coach our second stringers to win a few in a row?
25 Nov 2012, 12:46 pm
@phil72-30:
Would it not be better to say, we win about 80% of our games instead of boasting about only losing 20%.
How many draws in the rest of the 80% if you only lose 20%?
For example, can you really brag about only losing 20% of your matches if you have a record that reads:
Play: 20
Win: 10
Draw: 6
Lose: 4
20% lose record but only a 50% win record. Not something to brag about imo. Maybe if you were Arg or Italy but not if you are the Boks.
Lets concentrate on the win percentage. It is a more positive outlook.
25 Nov 2012, 12:52 pm
@phil72-33:
Once again Philly.
You are SA.
There should be no such thing as second stringers. ONLY SPRINGBOKS.
25 Nov 2012, 13:01 pm
@nama1-34:
It would be yes!
But lets look at what happened and what HM did! The core of the bok team retired 2011 and he had to deal with +- 10 first choice player not being available due to injury and club commitments. He is building a team (same as he did in his early days with the bulls). There are 15 odd world class players becoming available to him next year.
This will become one of the strongest SA teams ever?
25 Nov 2012, 13:01 pm
Heyneke, you’ve had your formative year to try things out. If you don’t deliver on that 80% win ratio, we’ll be calling for your early departure.
25 Nov 2012, 13:15 pm
@phil72-36:
I certainly hope so.
I also hope that they will play an attractive brand of rugby and not this dull, uninspiring stuff that we were subjected to this year.
More of what we saw in the 1st half of the 2nd test against England is what I would like to see.
You? Are you satisfied with how we played this year?
25 Nov 2012, 13:23 pm
@pattyfries-37:
Bit hard on the man
SPRINGBOK COACH WINNING RATIOS
Andre Markgraaf (1996) 61%
Carel du Plessis (1997) 37%
Nick Mallet (1997-2000) 71%
Harry Viljoen (2000-2002) 53%
Rudolph Straeuli (2002-2003) 52%
Jake White (2004-2007) 67%
Peter de Villiers (2008-) 63%
Lets see what he brings to the table next year?
25 Nov 2012, 13:29 pm
@nama1-38:
HM is far more intelligent than people give him credit for! All of us including him wants the boks to score more tries. He is building towards this and our our rugby will become more exiting to watch! Also respect his attitude of trying to win even if it has to be ugly! The attitude of chucking the balll around win or lose will also not work for me?
Imagine the criticism he would have received losing a few up north….
25 Nov 2012, 13:47 pm
@cane-35:
Bekker, Andries
Botha, Bakkies
Brussow, Heinrich
Burger, Schalk
du Plessis, Bismarck
Fourie, Jaque
Goosen Johan
Habana, Bryan
Kankowski, Ryan
Mtawarira, Tendai ‘Beast’
Oosthuizen Coenie
Potgieter, Jacques
Smith, Juan
Spies, Pierre
Steyn, Francois
du Preez, Fourie
Muller, Johann
Rossouw, Danie
Stegmann, Deon
All still playing, but not available
25 Nov 2012, 13:47 pm
OK, so let’s analyse Meyer’s first year in charge by the numbers.
Played 12
Won 7
Drawn 2
Lost 3
58.3%
Rating: “Below Average” (if one compares him to the “average” of Jake White and PDV).
However, had we won the two drawn games, which we really should have done, he would have been sitting on 75% which would have been “above average”. The margins are very small in test rugby.
The rugby has been boring, one dimensional, ponderous and seemingly without any innovation or plan B. It also seems that there is a palpable sense of fear amongst the team not to lose which seems to have an inhibiting effect.
What is of concern is that we only won 2 of 6 games in the 4N, against the world’s best. A 33.3% return against the best in the game is not good enough (especially when the inclusion of Argentina should mean home and away wins up front).
But whilst the rugby has been boring and not good enough to beat the All Blacks (and never will be), and whilst Meyer’s results are below average, I do have a small sense of optimism going forward that this young team can only improve.
25 Nov 2012, 13:59 pm
@Liewe Luiperd-42:
I support your optimism
There are more than enough doomsayers and negative supporters that I think they could do with some more optimistic supporters.
What tickles me is that we are ponderous and our game plan, or lack thereof, is clear for everyone to see, yet we managed to win all 3 matches away from home after a long season.
I for one will just bite my lip before launching full out attacks against Meyer and the players and rather use that energy to believe that they have a blueprint and we will be seeing better in the future
25 Nov 2012, 14:15 pm
@nortierd-43: look, let’s not lose sight of the fact that we beat Ireland, Scotland and England.
The Springboks should be beating these teams all the time. So let’s not get too carried away.
The real test is the 4N. And this year we truly sucked.
25 Nov 2012, 14:18 pm
1 Mtawarira, Tendai
2 du Plessis, Bismarck
3 Pat Cilliers
4 Bakkies Botha
5 Eben Etzebeth
6 Francois Louw
7 Duane Vermeulen
8 Pierre Spies
9 Fourie Du Preez
10 Johan Goosen
11 JP Pietersen
12 Frans Steyn
13 Jaques Fourie
14 Brian Habana
15 Jaco Taute
16 Adriaan Strauss
17 Jannie Dup
18 Guthro Steenkamp
19 Willem Alberts
20 Schalk Burger
21 Ryan Kankovski
22 Francois Hougaard
23 Pat Lambie
25 Nov 2012, 14:22 pm
Heyneke Meyer is thicker than 3 planks strung together
Here is real score card the way I judge him for his first year
4 clear wins as below all at home
09 Jun 2012 ST v England 22-17 Durban H
16 Jun 2012 ST v England 36-27 Johannesburg H
18 Aug 2012 RC v Argentina 27-6 Cape Town H
29 Sep 2012 RC v Australia 31-8 Pretoria H
2 mediocre flattering wins with some lucky results away
10 Nov 2012 AI v Ireland 16-12 Dublin A
17 Nov 2012 AI v Scotland 21-10 Edinburgh A
2 very poor draws which should have been losses had circumstances not bailed the cause 1 home 1 away
23 Jun 2012 ST v England 14-14 Pt Elizabeth H
25 Aug 2012 RC v Argentina 16-16 Mendoza A
3 clear losses 2 away 1 at home
08 Sep 2012 RC v Australia 19-26 Perth_AUS A
15 Sep 2012 RC v New Zealand 11-21 Dunedin A
06 Oct 2012 RC v New Zealand 16-32 Johannesburg H
1 extremely lucky win could easily have gone the opposite way
24 Nov 2012 AI v England 16-15 London A
So his clear wins = 4
Mediocre wins = 2
Clear losses = 3
Lucky draws = 2
Lucky wins = 1
Report card after year one reads 50% pass mark
He should have lost in Mendoza, and almost lost in PE and in London
Which means he won 6, lost 3 and should have or could have lost another 3
result = 6/12 clear wins and 2 of those were dire results in Ireland and Scotland away.
25 Nov 2012, 14:26 pm
@skopdiekan-46:
We also almost lost in the 1995 world cup twice?
25 Nov 2012, 14:31 pm
2 draws and 2 losses purely because of poor goal kicking by Morne Steyn… agree with you 100%. Looking back it should of been:
clear wins = 5
Mediocre wins = 2
Clear losses = 2
Lucky wins = 3
25 Nov 2012, 14:36 pm
@Liewe Luiperd-44:
The All Blacks excelled, as per usual, the Boks and Aus were below par, and Argentina played almost above themselves and still only managed one draw.
At least we know we can improve and should be where we should beat Argentina comfortably, beat Aus at home and maybe away as well, and run the Kiwis close away and win at home.
Still to be rated 2nd can’t be all bad, yet it sounds like it most of the time.
I’ve reached the point where I’m tired of all the arguments, Meyer bashing, JdV bashing etc. etc. that I just want to enjoy the games again without all the emotion.
Every coach of the Boks is in a no win situation anyway ,irrespective of who he selects, so I do feel sorry for him on some level, yet he knew what to expect, but maybe it’s time to actually give him the benefit of the doubt and support him and his players and there chosen way forward.
I know it won’t happen, but I will try henceforth and look for the positives, no matter how small, because after all, it’s only a game to me and the only way it affects my life is in the Superbru scores.
25 Nov 2012, 14:37 pm
@phil72-47: and we almost lost in the 2007 WC twice to 12th rank Fiji and 14 rank Tonga
Tonga beat Scotland yesterday who we scraped a win against last weekend
at least our close almost losses in 1995 WC were against top teams France and NZ
the draw vs Argentina in Mendoza should have been a loss if Steyn hadn’t luckily got to the full backs raking kick to charge down and score that was a certain loss by all accounts a draw was a gift by the rugby gods.
Similar in PE vs England a draw was a fluke result.. and yesterday in London was due to Alberts lucky recipient off a hack ahead off the English loose forward putting him onside.. lucky ping pong pinball type try. Flood missed 2 sitters first half and then Robshaw refuses 3 points at 6 minutes out but goes for the 3 at the end of the game which lets Boks off the hook.
So 2 draws plus yesterdays fluke result = 3 games plus the 3 he lost = 6 from 12 = 50% success rate.
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